February 6, 2025 • 67 mins
Join us as we engage in a compelling conversation with John Steen, an energy healer who transitioned from a high-stress federal career to a journey of self-discovery. John shares his profound insights into trauma healing, offering strategies to navigate the tumultuous societal landscape. Together, we explore how energy healing modalities, such as meditation and chakra work, can open pathways to access and release internal trauma, setting the stage for resilience and spiritual growth.
John shares personal stories of overcoming childhood trauma and the importance of creating safe spaces for healing. We discuss the significance of womb healing and root chakra work.
In this conversation, we touch on the challenges of maintaining authenticity amidst spiritual communities. We share experiences of encountering toxic behavior and the manipulation of spiritual ideals, prompting discussions on the necessity of congruence between ideals and actions. Through this exploration, we highlight the importance of forgiveness and self-compassion while navigating personal and collective turmoil. By reflecting on the intersection of spirituality with societal challenges, we underscore the role of creative expression and introspection in processing complex emotions, inviting listeners to explore their own spiritual paths with authenticity and courage.
To learn more about John or to book a session with him:
Clairvoyaging is now a fiscally sponsored project of Fractured Atlas, a 501(c)(3) charity, so any donations are now tax deductible. If you’d like to support our projects that aim to foster understanding for diverse spiritual belief systems, visit www.clairvoyaging.com/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lauren (00:01):
Hey guys, today we talked to John Steen, an energy
healer and teacher.
We chatted about trauma healing, john's experience as a
previous federal employee and,of course, energy healing, and
more, lots more.
I'm Lauren Leon.
Frank (00:17):
And I'm Frank.
Lauren (00:18):
We are a married couple learning how to develop our own
intuition.
This is episode 60 of ClaireVoyaging.
Frank (00:43):
Wayfeather Media presents Claire Voyaging.
Let's post up Lauren.
We got a good one today, allright, let's go.
Lauren, we got a good one today, all right, let's go I'm sorry,
frank just tickled my neck.
Lauren (00:53):
You can't hear what's going on when the music's on.
Frank (00:54):
My god, that was so shocking it wasn't, it wasn't,
gentle?
Hello everyone it wasn't gentle.
Listen, it works on mythree-year-old yes why wouldn't
it work on you?
Lauren (01:05):
this is unfiltered.
Frank tickled my neck, you likedove I kind of wolverine
stabbed you yeah but, okay, hieveryone.
Welcome to claire voyagingwelcome to the show I'm sorry.
I'm sorry about him.
Guys, I to tell you we'vegotten some amazing emails from
you lately and I just want tosay, as always, thank you.
Frank (01:29):
Thank you.
Lauren (01:30):
For not only sharing your experience with us, but
just reaching out to say hi.
Frank (01:36):
Yeah, it's awesome.
Lauren (01:37):
Every time we get emails it's like, oh yeah, that's
awesome.
Frank (01:39):
Yeah.
Lauren (01:40):
It's great to hear that you like the podcast or that
something is resonating, and Ijust wanted to bring that up and
say thank you and keep it going.
Frank (01:48):
Yeah, it's very fun.
Yeah, right to us.
Send us something stupid.
I don't care, send me a meme.
I love memes.
Lauren (01:53):
Why not?
Yeah, also, um we we love theselike listener episodes that
we're doing on Patreon.
Frank (02:07):
So if you're not a Patreon member, get in there.
But also, if you just want totalk about your experience right
now, just reach out, we'll haveyou on the show.
It doesn't have to be on themain feed.
We can throw it on Patreon ifyou're not comfortable.
But if you're on the main feed,that's fine.
We want to hear from you, wewant to hear all about it.
Lauren (02:20):
So send us an email clearvoyagingpodcast at gmailcom
that's the one and, on thatnote, if you have a suggestion
for either a topic or a guestthat, like you know, maybe
you've talked to a medium thatyou really trust and like, or an
energy healer, tarot cardreader, somebody that would be
(02:41):
an interesting guest, please letus know yeah, who's out there
changing your life?
Frank (02:44):
yeah, I don to know what's going on.
What's made the big difference?
What's given you the hashtagGreat Awakening?
Oh, you know what I'll?
Lauren (02:57):
leave it.
What's up?
We want to know what's up.
You know what?
I don't have any other updates,so on that, we're just going to
get to John, let me let me, letme warn everybody.
Frank (03:10):
I'll give everybody a warning.
A little update, what littleupdate.
We're changing the intro songand I just don't want to shock
anybody.
Lauren (03:17):
It'll be yeah.
You know, it'll be a funsurprise when we release it.
Frank (03:22):
It'll be a fun surprise, you surprise, when we release it
.
It'll be a fun surprise, youknow, maybe next week.
Let's just say, yeah, well, nopromises.
We'll say okay, but uh, Ireached out to the person that
wrote the song originally.
We had gotten it as a stocksong.
I know I write music.
I didn't write this one.
Sometimes you just gottaoutsource, right?
Yeah, we found a good one.
Um, I found the person thatwrote our original song, the one
that you heard just now, andthey were down to make an
(03:44):
original that sounds verysimilar but is different.
Yeah, and uh, it's really cool.
He sent me a a draft of ittoday and it slaps yes, it does
so that's pretty fun.
Lauren (03:57):
Stay tuned.
We want to be able to use thesong for other things and, uh,
that's why frank reached out,because we were like we want to
have, like, free reign.
Frank (04:04):
Yeah we don't want like licensing issues and stuff.
So yeah, but you're going tolike it, you won't be
disappointed, I promise.
Lauren (04:09):
Guy, simon or Simone, I'm not sure.
Frank (04:13):
Simon Lapine, and we might be butchering that, but go
give him some business.
He's a songwriter, he's acomposer.
Lauren (04:20):
Yeah, so, yeah, yeah, so , uh, yeah, cool dude.
So now on to our episode.
We talked to john steen.
John steen and I really enjoyedthis episode.
Frank (04:32):
I really liked talking to him you know, sometimes you
just find the right person atthe right time to have the right
conversation with yeah and withthe state of things today.
Uh, you know the way things aregoing these days, with, I don't
know, maybe a little bit offascism up and coming, a little
bit of something.
Listen, I don't.
This show's not a politicalshow, obviously, but there we
(04:52):
run into a little.
I've run into a little bit ofan issue, and I know Lauren has
too.
We're trying to be spiritual,we're trying to like work on
ourselves and at the same time,it feels like the world is
crumbling around us.
Yeah.
So how do you do that?
You can't just ignore it, right.
So I found someone who haslearned how to not ignore it.
Lauren (05:11):
Yeah, so, and in like a healthy, really beautiful way.
He's a member of the lgbtqcommunity and so like his
perspective is really great.
He's an energy healer, so hisinsight on healing yourself and
all that especially during atime of such like turmoil and
(05:32):
it's really unsettling I reallyappreciated everything he had to
say.
I really enjoyed talking to him.
It's just nice sometimes tokind of get back to the trauma
healing conversation while alsointersecting and how it
intersects with politics or likethe state of current events.
Frank (05:53):
So you can do both.
Lauren (05:55):
I hope you enjoy this as much as I liked talking to him.
Frank (05:59):
We, we, yes yeah.
So Take it away, roll the tape,do you always try to come up?
Lauren (06:02):
with a new one, but you end up saying the same.
Take it away, roll the tape.
Frank (06:05):
Do you always try to come up with a new one, but you end
up saying the same thing, or islike roll the tape thing.
Lauren (06:09):
It's kind of just become a thing.
Ok, I'll try a new one.
Frank (06:12):
No, you don't have to.
I was just wondering.
Lauren (06:15):
Go run the marathon.
Frank (06:17):
No, that's no one's ever said that.
Give me like a Beastie Boysexclamatory.
Lauren (06:22):
Let it drop.
John Steen, thank you so muchfor joining us.
We love hearing people'sbackstories and how they got
here, so can you tell us a bitabout yourself and what brought
you to this work that you'redoing now?
John (06:40):
So about five years ago, in January of 2020, right before
the pandemic hit I had resignedfrom my 33 year career.
I worked for the federalgovernment for 33 years and I
had filed a discriminationlawsuit in 2016.
(07:01):
And just the retaliation fromfiling that for four to five
years and then I became awhistleblower on top of that.
The retaliation from that wasjust so immense that during that
time right in December of 2019,I was on vacation for two weeks
(07:27):
and they were retaliatingagainst me while I was on
vacation and for me.
There are some times when thingshave happened in my life that I
hear and feel a click inside meand feel a click inside me.
(07:49):
And while I was experiencingthat retaliation over the
Christmas and New Year holiday,I realized it's time for me to
leave.
I have to leave or I'm going todie.
I was having panic attackswhich I had never had in my
whole life, and so I made thedecision to resign from my
career.
I was four years shy ofreceiving my pension, which I'm
(08:14):
receiving now, but resigningmeant that I have no healthcare,
which was okay because I'm ingreat health have always been in
great health, thankfully and Ihad been saving money and I
decided to live off of my 401kand my goal was to go back to
(08:40):
work within a year, maybe take ayear off.
And then the pandemic hit and Ijust kind of went down a rabbit
hole there and I had put downmeditation which I had picked up
during the stress of my job.
A co worker had recommendedinsight timer to me to me.
(09:04):
And so I picked it back up inOctober of 2020.
And that's when Insight Timerstarted doing their live
sessions, and so I just immersedmyself in everything all these
different modalities that I hadnever even tried, and one of
(09:25):
them was energy healing, and Ihad never tried it.
I was doing it over my, throughmy phone, and for about six
months I was just noticing thischange within me and I decided
to take the class that theteacher was offering, and what I
(09:47):
had really actually realizedwas that the reaction to the
trauma of my job was really atrauma response from my entire
life, basically my childhood,that I have been trying to heal
my entire life.
I could never get anywherethrough therapy, group therapy,
(10:10):
going to Al-Anon, I could neverget anywhere.
So when I entered my 40s, Iactually just I had it was a I
kind of gave up in a way, whereI just realized I'm going to
have to learn to live with thisfeeling of abandonment that I
knew that I was carrying mywhole life, and so that's what I
(10:33):
did.
I kind of resigned and kind ofstopped doing spiritual stuff
and any type of healing, anytype of healing, and during that
five years of the work, stress.
As a spiritual person, I knewthat there had to be a bigger
reason and I constantly wasasking why is this happening to
(10:53):
me?
And I could never find a reasonbecause I was just so immersed
in it.
And it wasn't until after Iquit and was just doing a lot of
meditation and energy healingand that's when I got the answer
.
And it was my trauma, it wasthe universe was nudging me.
I have to deal with this,abandonment issues, I have to
(11:19):
deal with what happened to me asa child and so that, doing the
energy healing, I was able toget to my trauma, my childhood
trauma, in a very, very shorttime.
And when I started this journeywith energy healing, my goal
wasn't really to become apractitioner myself, although I
(11:41):
left that door open because Ididn't know what I was going to
do with the rest of my lifeafter I quit my job.
And then, as I just immersedmyself with the class and the
teachings and the healing that Iwas doing, that's when I just I
said I have to let other peopleknow about this, like many
(12:05):
things that I've read, and evenmy teachers say energy healing
accelerates healing and I haveexperienced that myself in the
teaching that I'm doing.
(12:28):
It's just a really amazingmodality, healing modality that
has just changed my life andchanged the course and direction
of my life.
Lauren (12:39):
Okay, I love that, love that I I can relate to that so
much because I learned reiki, uh, like over a year ago, and I
mean our listeners have heard mein the midst of like huge
bursts of healing, um, and it'sso incredible how it really does
(13:03):
change.
Like it's so different fromtherapy, because you can talk
about the problem all day butthere's something different
about like getting in thereenergetically and like releasing
it and letting it go and likejust understanding like kind of
the bigger picture.
So I love that.
(13:24):
That's really inspiring.
Frank (13:27):
Yeah, let me ask you, obviously, like traditional
therapy versus doing your owninternal trauma work.
It's it's two differentmodalities, right Of, of healing
and the thing I always avoidedtherapy because in and not I'm
not speaking poorly abouttherapy, but I've always avoided
, avoided therapy because I'mvery heady and I think about
(13:49):
this stuff already and I wasalways like, oh well, there's
nothing that anyone's going totell me that I haven't thought
of.
And then when I was like I guessI guess this is just the way I
am, but then one around the timeI got around to like learning
reiki also lauren attuned to meand then I learned more about
doing your own internal traumawork.
It's like, oh wait, I have amain line to these uncomfortable
(14:10):
feelings and I don't needsomeone else to tell me, like to
try and trigger me so that Ican get raw and start feeling it
.
So much of it is just like youhave access to your own healing
path already.
So I don't know.
I just wanted to hear a littlebit more about how that worked
out for you, like therealization of you know, after
so much time, like that you cando it yourself.
John (14:32):
That has been my journey, right, that for energy healing.
What my journey with it?
It creates the space within myenergy field, my system, my body
, and what was happening isthere were triggers that were
occurring in my life and theywere with my friends and what I
(14:53):
did is I followed those triggersanytime something happened and
that was able to get me to thetrauma, to my pain with my
parents.
My mom was an alcoholic growingup, so that was a big source of
my trauma and she drank whileshe was pregnant with all three
(15:14):
kids.
I'm the oldest of three.
So my first journey with theenergy healing was actually
doing some womb healing, whichis very, very deep, deep work,
because most people I mean wecan say, like you can hear
someone talk about that and it'slike, oh, the mother drank when
(15:36):
she was pregnant, like we canall vision, like, oh, that's
horrible, that's not.
You know, the child is going togrow up.
It can be some cognitiveproblems maybe in their brain,
right, and an adult, and yes,I've experienced all that.
But we all have stuff in thewomb.
We are all affected by theenergy of whatever the mom was
(16:02):
experiencing and feeling herselfin her own wounds.
If you know.
That's how it's kind of allpassed down in a way that that
generational trauma, and thenhow her spouse or partner is
treating her right, how she'sfeeling and receiving that.
So we all have that womb stuffgoing on within us, but some of
(16:26):
us it is a little deeper.
So that's where it went for meto start.
It was going in to do some wombhealing.
Frank (16:35):
I don't think we've encountered that term before
womb healing.
Can you tell us what that is?
John (16:42):
There are things that, with the modality that I use
with field dynamics, it's athree.
Most of the we call themprotocols and they're 60 minutes
, but if I work with clients orgroups, I would do 45 minutes to
50 minutes.
And there's this three hourprotocol that we do for womb
(17:04):
healing and it's kind of calledenergetic recapitulation and
it's about going back and beingin the womb and it's about going
back when you are.
I can't recall specifically thetimeframe, but it's, let's say,
(17:29):
three months while you're, youknow, gestation period, and then
maybe six months or nine monthsand you can do it over and over
this energetic recapitulation.
Energetic recapitulation Becausewhat I've learned as well is if
you I'm not sure if you'refamiliar with Anodea Judith she
(17:58):
does a lot of chakra books andtalks a lot about chakras and
she talks about if you have adamaged root chakra, then all of
your chakras will be damaged.
And so I kind of now thinking,okay, I have this experience,
this womb trauma, my motherdrank right.
That affected me.
How has that affected all of myother chakras?
Lauren (18:21):
in a way, yeah, that's so interesting because I mean
like linking the root chakrawith the womb.
The root chakra is responsiblefor like safety, security,
belonging, and if you're likegoing back into doing womb
healing and you maybe didn'teven realize, obviously
(18:43):
consciously, that you weren'tfeeling safe or secure because
of the like energetic stuffgoing on, that's so interesting.
John (18:53):
Yeah, for me, what I wrote a blog about it too is I could
just picture me as a fetus andbeing fed alcohol and trying to
escape and get out of there wowlike the little, my little arms
and legs yeah you know, justreacting to that alcohol in my
(19:13):
system yeah, oh my gosh so is,excuse me, so you you kind of uh
, are you?
Frank (19:21):
are you uh envisioning this in a meditative state, or
are you actually like, yeah, howdoes this?
What's the actual process?
That didn't this in ameditative state, or are you
actually like, what's the actualprocess?
John (19:27):
That didn't happen in a meditative state for me, that
was just my thoughts andfeelings about what was
happening in the womb, the thingthat happened for me my whole
life.
I always wondered where and howmy abandonment issues, where
they started was it because thishappened at five years old, or
(19:50):
this happened at six years old?
Had a live was very, verytraumatic childhood and once I
allowed myself to say, oh, thisstarted in the womb because my
mother drank.
Everything opened up for mearound that.
I burst into tears and was ableto go to that and feel the
(20:15):
trauma in a way.
Lauren (20:20):
Like yes, this is where it started for me.
John (20:22):
Wow, yeah, I mean, that makes sense.
It releases blocks in oursystem.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Trauma, it releases blocks inour system.
Lauren (20:26):
Yeah, can you say what the energy modality is?
John (20:46):
healing energy field dynamics and I found them on
Inside Timer.
They're amazing teachers andthe modality is very, very
strong and very potent and it'sjust, it's worked wonders for me
.
You know, now that I'm teachingit and have clients and you
know, teach on Inside Timer.
I'm seeing amazing experienceswith people, you know, doing it
collectively in groups.
(21:06):
That feels like my morespecialty.
Lauren (21:09):
Yeah, oh, that's so cool .
Frank (21:11):
Why don't I have Insight Timer?
You know we interviewed anotherteacher from Insight Timer,
latanya Hill, and she was soawesome and you're already so
awesome Like I need to get onthis thing right now.
Lauren (21:20):
This is like a commercial Insight Hill.
I did write Insight Hill you onthis thing right now.
Frank (21:22):
This is like a commercial .
I think you just typed inInsight Hill.
Lauren (21:24):
I did write Insight Hill .
You know what I shouldn't be?
Frank (21:26):
downloading apps in the middle of a podcast anyway, so
I'll do that later I've usedInsight.
That's how I found it, I know,I know Insight.
Lauren (21:32):
Timer is great.
Frank (21:34):
I guess my question now, if it's not too personal, is
like root chakra damage fromyour before you did your womb
healing.
How was that?
Um, I don't know.
How was history repeatingessentially with your, your
friends and stuff, what wastriggering for you?
John (21:51):
Um, yeah, it was my codependency and people pleasing
, yeah, seeking externalvalidation.
Frank (22:00):
Got it.
John (22:02):
Through this experience that I've been through this past
four plus years of this healingpart of my journey, I've always
I moved.
I grew up in Massachusetts,boston, and I moved to San
Francisco in 1988.
And so I created and formed myown family.
(22:25):
Right God, I just forgot theterm that we all would use your
chosen family, my chosen family.
Lauren (22:31):
Yeah.
John (22:32):
I had friends 20, 30 years of friends and most of them are
all gone now I have lost somany of my friends in this
journey.
I was actually surprised bythat because I did feel secure
in my relationships with myfriends because they lasted so
(22:54):
long.
But I was holding on so tightand I was people pleasing and
codependent with every singleperson and that's all root
chakra stuff and for me it's thesafety and security right.
I'm seeking their validation.
I'm trying to get that safetyand security by seeking the
validation.
(23:14):
And then fear.
Fear is such a big thing for mein my life and that's all root
chakra stuff as well.
That's the shadow of the rootchakra is fear.
So that all really worked.
It's just like kind of put mein a rabbit hole in a way.
(23:35):
It was very hard losing allthose friends, but I have to say
it needed to happen.
I can go inside and feel likethis is what actually needed to
happen for me to grow and levelup and move to the next level or
ascend up in a way.
(23:56):
Yeah, how did they handle that?
Frank (23:57):
to grow and level up and move to the next level or ascend
up in a way.
Yeah, how did they handle that?
John (24:00):
I didn't really talk about what I was going through, in a
way, with the energy healing.
I would speak a little bitabout it, but there wasn't much
curiosity because I had noboundaries either.
And so once I started assertingmy boundaries and asserting
myself, that's when, when theconflicts came was it like a
(24:24):
natural separation then, likeyou just divided over time?
Frank (24:27):
or did you?
Were you like I can't hang outwith you because I have a
codependency?
John (24:31):
Yeah, it was all of it yeah.
Frank (24:34):
Yeah.
John (24:35):
Cause I have actually gone figuring out like oh you know,
my mom was a narcissist.
Well, look, here's a bunch offriends that I can see
narcissistic tendencies.
Right, like how I attractedthat because I'm so used to that
.
Lauren (24:50):
Yeah, yeah, that unhealed part that, if you're
you know, if you have so muchunhealed trauma, your body seeks
what it knows.
Frank (25:00):
Also narcissists find you .
Lauren (25:02):
Right, yeah, I mean, a narcissist wants to hang out
with the people, pleaser,because they're going to do
everything they want you to doand your fear of abandonment
(25:25):
keeps you in that relationshipbecause you're so worried that
whatever you're going to do isgoing to.
I feel this a lot worried thatlike upsetting someone is going
to the ultimate.
What if in conflict?
For me is always they're notgoing to be friends with me
anymore.
I'll never talk to them againbecause they don't like me or
don't want me around or whatever.
To them again because theydon't like me or don't want me
around or whatever.
And so you kind of keepperpetuating that cycle and
(25:45):
seeking out people that'll keepfeeding that monster 100 percent
, yeah, wow and did you findthat, like your work, your work
experience was also mirroringthat relationship?
John (26:02):
Oh, absolutely.
I actually had realized that 20years before, when I first had
around 2000,.
I had a problem at my jobbecause I stayed at this one
agency for 28 years and I hadalso filed a discrimination
lawsuit.
And I realized at that time mestaying with the federal
(26:23):
government because you prettymuch have to murder someone to
get fired from the federalgovernment.
And until now until now, for meit was security.
I was searching for thatsecurity.
So when something started tohappen 20 years prior that put
(26:44):
me into a tailspin and Irealized I knew that it was a
security thing going on.
And I was seeking that security,but I didn't heal that part of
me.
So to your question yes, 100%,that that is exactly why I
stayed for so long.
Well, right, being treated theway I was being treated, instead
(27:07):
of asserting myself and sayingI'm getting out of here.
You know, I deserve better thanthis.
Yeah, because it was secure forme I've.
Lauren (27:18):
I mean I feel like a lot of people can relate to staying
in a job that's not right foryou, but it's safe oh, yeah, hi
hi yep a lot of people canrelate to also staying in like a
relationship because it's safe,even though you know hi even
though not you, I know I hopeI've been in this way too long
(27:45):
Wow.
Frank (27:47):
This is a really weird way to tell me, babe.
Lauren (27:52):
No, but I had.
I was also, I was in a job thatwasn't right for me, toxic like
, but felt safe because it waslike you know, well, paying like
it paid well, all that.
And then a relationship thatwas like I don't think this is
the right one, but safety,because also, again, that fear
(28:16):
of what does this, the fear ofnot having that safety, feels a
little bit worse than like well,I know this, you know, even if
it's a little off.
John (28:29):
Yes, fear keeps you stuck, 100%.
It's something that I stillconstantly work with around is
fear.
There is this teacher on insidetimer who talks about fear and
it really struck me.
Fear keeps you stuck in yourego.
It keeps that focus on yourselfand like, oh, that's a great
(28:53):
way to look at it.
Right, I'm stuck in my ego self.
Yeah, oh, my gosh, this doesnot matter, that's a great way
to look at it Right, I'm just,I'm stuck in my ego self.
Frank (29:00):
Yeah, oh, my gosh.
This does not matter, but outof curiosity, which agency was
it I?
I worked Just to be clear.
I have cosmic level clearance,so like your secrets are safe
with me.
John (29:11):
I worked for the drug enforcement administration.
Oh wow, yeah, okay.
And the drug enforcementadministration?
Oh wow, yeah, okay.
And um, um, I've not.
I've never mentioned what mywhistleblowing is in public and
I don't feel comfortable stilldoing that.
But going on, it was nevercleared and it's it's pretty um
(29:34):
drastic why it's pretty bad justsaying that, yeah, I mean wow
with.
Frank (29:40):
I mean that's a big.
I think we can all assume, yeah, yeah, we can all assume what's
allowed to happen and that'slike that kind of stuff is
insane.
Speaking of speaking of notbeing happy with the government,
there's a lot going on thesedays.
Yeah, this and to for anybodywho's listening to this in the
(30:04):
future, it is today is february5th, 2025 and shit's gone
sideways.
And you know personally, youknow, john, I saw you, um, was
it on Instagram?
Yeah, I saw a video you put onInstagram where you were talking
about like you know how you canstruggle with being a spiritual
(30:29):
person, trying to be likesomeone who's living in high
vibes and like trying to be thechange you want to see in the
world, but then how do youinteract with the world?
That's not doing the thing thatit should be doing or
respecting um, respecting peoplein human life.
Lauren (30:44):
Right.
So what made you want to talkto John was because you saw a
video where you said you were ina mindfulness class and someone
started talking.
I'm interested in how this cameup, because you said someone
started saying illegals and theywere like I don't feel
comfortable with this and thenyou left the class.
Frank (31:02):
Can you talk about that?
Yeah, let's let them tell thestory, okay, yeah?
John (31:05):
yeah, um, I there, I was with this, um it's through
whatsapp.
Um, um, we were.
It was a chat group.
They were friends that I'vemade over the years from Insight
Timer.
So there were and it's five ofus in the United States, one
European and two people fromIndia, and we talk about a lot
(31:30):
of things in the chat.
It's one of those chat thingsthat is daily all the time, and
it was a beautiful supportsystem that we created there for
about three years and I was theonly male in that chat group
and this person just it's notthe first time they had done it
(31:54):
used the term illegals todescribe migrants, and the first
time that they did it, I didn'tsay anything because they were
having a conversation withsomeone who was actually an
immigrant.
Lauren (32:10):
And.
John (32:10):
I was a little surprised they didn't speak up.
So I felt bad that I didn'tspeak up at that time.
And then I actually had aconversation with that person
where she was also demeaningtowards trans people and other
people spoke up and, you know,were supportive of my position
(32:37):
and because I was trying toeducate this person about trans
issues.
And so then all of a sudden itjust out of the blue it came up.
This person used the termillegals to describe migrants
and I shot back just saying, hey, migrants.
(32:59):
And I shot back just saying hey, could we please not use that
term?
There is no person on earth whois illegal.
People may do illegal things,but nobody is illegal.
Lauren (33:07):
Yeah.
John (33:07):
This is not.
It's a very dehumanizing term.
Yeah, please not say that.
And the person who is animmigrant chimed in and she
explained she didn't like thatterm either and how it has been
used against her and da da, da,da da.
And so then I woke up the nextmorning with uh to the text and
(33:31):
saying, um, it is not adehumanizing term, I'm going to
use it and I'm not going to belectured to.
Frank (33:41):
The classic double down, oh man.
John (33:44):
Total double down and I was very you know mindful in
both of my responses and I justsaid, okay, this is just not the
space for me If this is what'sgoing to be used, because I also
brought up being an LGBT personof the time that they had used
(34:08):
a meaning language to describetrans people, and so when in my
response I was totally dismissed, nothing about the comments on
LGBT were brought up, and so Iwas like this does not feel good
, this does not feel safe and Ihave to assert my boundaries,
(34:29):
and so I decided to leave thegroup.
And I don't know how separatepeople.
They all reached out to me,including this person, sent a
separate message but didn't eventake responsibility for their
language or their demeaning toneor language and didn't even
(34:54):
acknowledge my feelings.
It was just like oh, I'm sorry,you feel unsafe?
Frank (35:01):
Oof.
That's what I said.
John (35:05):
It was just like and I didn't even respond to the
message Just like there was no,I can't get through to this
person.
They're not going to hear me oracknowledge my feelings
whatsoever, so I let that go.
But other people were verysupportive and sorry to see me
leave.
Lauren (35:24):
Yeah, that's the worst response.
I'm sorry you feel unsafe.
I'm sorry I created anenvironment that made you feel
unsafe.
That's insane.
Frank (35:36):
So, lauren and I are kind of new to the you know
spiritual world, like.
We've been doing this podcastfor a year and this has been our
big like reorganization of ourown personal spiritual beliefs
through, through interviews andtalking to people who are in it
every day um, people likeyourself.
One of the biggestdisappointing things that I've
(35:57):
found is that, even as aspiritual spiritual community,
there are, there's, there's aalmost a subset of a toxic
spirituality that resembles Idon't even know it's.
It's exactly what you ran into.
It's like, oh, like, how do you, how do you believe in?
Um, healing and energetic?
(36:18):
And, like you, I think what youdescribed as like the, the
freedom to exist in thespiritual world, which is what
the spiritual world is, and thenalso be comfortable with, with
being demeaning, is what'shappening.
What is this?
John (36:32):
those two things there.
I mean I have to say it'smanipulation, right?
Because when, if your, if yourwords, if your words and actions
aren't matching, that'smanipulation, and refusing to
take responsibility or be heldaccountable for it, that's
gaslighting.
That's what I'm seeing going onthere.
Lauren (36:58):
I don't know.
I feel like there's some falsespirituality also.
There's people who are like I'mgoing to get in a group of
people and we're going to dressin white dresses and, like you
know, use oil and and vote forRFK, and we're holistic and we
(37:23):
don't.
You know, like it's that overthe top, like, but it's like.
Frank (37:29):
Well, it's like it's ego infused spirituality and it's
and it's gatekeeping for otherpeople.
Lauren (37:35):
And it feels false.
And they're the woo-woo peoplesometimes.
Frank (37:40):
Well, we're the woo-woo people too, I know this sounds
judgy.
Yeah.
Lauren (37:42):
But it feels inauthentic .
Frank (37:47):
Well, it's gatekeeping, it's setting up a hierarchy.
You need them to do it andbecause it's feeding their ego,
they also let you know.
Here's the new rules.
And also, I don't like illegals, something like that, where
it's like they're just making upstuff yeah it's not true.
There's true elements to it,which is, and that makes it even
more dangerous.
I think that's why it's sodisappointing is if you're
(38:08):
presenting yourself in under theguise of like, like, open
mindedness and spirituality andlike, everyone has the right to
exist and love and compassionand all those things, but you're
not showing that.
Yeah it's, it's dangerousbecause people who are ready for
a spiritual journey, a real one, like, might find those people
(38:28):
first and, and yeah, just getstuck in an entirely different
system of inauthenticity, of, of, of, of, you know, toxic
behavior.
John (38:38):
Yes.
Frank (38:40):
That scares the crap out of me.
I found them.
I found them in 2020, whenwe're all locked down.
When you found insight timer.
I found the people who are veryinto like QA, non and like deep
conspiracies and I was likewhat?
And initially I was like Lauren, look, how funny this is.
And then it started to not befunny because I realized how
many of them there were and howthey were also very ingrained
into this new age spiritualityand and they're still out there.
Lauren (39:04):
There is an intersection where there's like the kind of
not so like QA, non type, andthen and then the the spiritual,
like wait, but but you knowI've been red pilled or whatever
.
It's not quite a spiritualawakening.
You know, if you're just buyinginto like every conspiracy
(39:27):
possible, and that's the otherthing.
Frank (39:28):
Is they like they?
They hijacked all the termslike spiritual awakening and all
these things you type in.
Spiritual awakening, it's goingto be 50 50 on whatever
platform you're on.
Some awakening, it's going tobe 50, 50 on whatever platform
you're on.
Some of those people are goingto be dangerous.
Right, and it's it's.
It's horrifying to me.
John (39:42):
And then they, they've taken, like I, I like to use the
term God to use um, highersource, higher power, infinite
spirit.
You know all the, all differentterms.
I still use god and they'velike hijacked the term god.
Yeah, well, yeah, you have tobe a right winger christian, you
(40:04):
know yeah yes, 100, yeah it's,it's disappointing, it's
disappointing and dangerous.
Frank (40:13):
Under this, like under the current circumstances that
we're, in which you know,there's a lot of uncomfortable
feelings that are coming up forme.
I I grew up.
My audience is tired of hearingthis, but I'm gonna say it
again.
I grew up like playing in punkbands and stuff.
Granted, we were like suburbanpunk, so it was mostly like
complaining about your parentsand your teachers and stuff like
that.
But you know, now, as an adult,you know my parents are my
(40:35):
friends and, uh, I don't likethe government now, uh, so you
never did.
I never did but, like you know,uh, I'm in a situation now and I
think a lot of people are wherewhere, um, if you are focused
on your own spiritual journeyand trying to heal and become a
(40:58):
better version of yourself, andyou have two options and it's to
like, continue trying to engagein the world and deal with
difficult emotions, or turn offthe news and and disengage
entirely.
And if you decide to engage, itcan.
It can start, uh, it's roadbumps in your spiritual journey.
If you don to engage, it canstart.
(41:19):
It's road bumps in yourspiritual journey if you don't
know how to handle it correctly.
And if you disengage, yourspiritual journey is false, in
my opinion, because part of yourexistence is you need to
participate in society.
John (41:32):
Yes.
Frank (41:34):
So what the hell do we do , man, like I'm trying to be,
like like exhibit high vibes andstuff and like be the person
that I want to be, but at theend of a long day and I hear you
know, the baby tea, like, say,is terrible things and I have a
little bit of rage in my heartand I don't know how to process
(41:54):
that, and I'm sure a lot ofpeople don't.
Do you have, do you havesuggestions?
John (41:59):
I was.
I was after the election.
I I was going to do exactlywhat you were talking about.
I'm going to check out.
I can't deal with this anymore.
Like let me turn this over.
I, you know, as someone older,you know, let the, let the
(42:20):
younger gays handle this.
Frank (42:22):
Yeah.
John (42:24):
If they can get off their phones, right, I wanted to check
out.
I stopped watching news.
I haven't gone back to the news.
I'm a news junkie.
My whole life I've been a newsjunkie.
What happened for me?
I've had a great with all thistime.
(42:44):
I've had great bouts ofcreativity happen for me, right?
So, um, and then I'm I thought,well, like how do I speak about
this, my feelings, and justgoing quiet and going within in
December really, really helpedme that time that, no, I can't
(43:06):
exactly what you said.
That's not if I disengage,that's not living the spiritual
life, right, that's.
I'm here on a journey anddealing with what is in front of
me is part of that journey,right, we're all part of a
(43:27):
collective society.
Yep, I think my soul wanted tocome here at this time, right?
Okay, so now half of us aredealing with this, let's just
say, in America, even thoughit's happening all over the
world.
Frank (43:42):
Sure yeah.
John (43:44):
So, ok, what are we doing now?
What, like?
What do we do?
And I do think that there are.
I'm not sure if you're familiarwith Lisa A Romano.
No she's she teach.
She's an amazing teacher.
She talks a lot aboutnarcissism and adult children of
alcoholics and she had thistalk the beginning of December
(44:05):
that I honestly try to listen toevery day.
It's a self-empowerment talkand she says if there are people
out there spiritual teachers,politicians saying look how bad
the election is and they're justconstantly spreading fear,
right, which I can easily getinto and maybe distrust that
(44:30):
right, if we're going to, ifyou're a spiritual teacher, you
have to hang on to the lightright.
Hang on to the light right.
Offer hope and faith.
Right, I'm going to be 58 soon.
I've seen a lot, you know.
I came out in the mid 80s atthe beginning of AIDS.
(44:50):
I know how bad these people are.
I've seen it my whole life.
At that time in the the 80s,gay men were the most
dehumanized people on the planetyeah it's, very few people can
understand what what that waslike.
And so now that we're seeingthat happening to trans people,
(45:14):
and now it's you know, it's thethe dehumanization of migrants
and the dehumanization of blackpeople, which has always, always
, always been there, which we'venever dealt with in this
country.
You're seeing it all comingtogether and I don't know if
that, I don't know if we'reseeing yet that collective
(45:40):
action, but I do think we haveto stay focused on the light,
because if we go dark and be allnegative and in the dark,
that's not going to work eitherright.
Light helps the darkness, so wejust have to keep shining that
(46:02):
light and that I do believe thatwe will get through this,
because right before theelection, I saw a social media
post on TikTok, which I've nowdeleted, but this minister I
forget where he is, it's on myInstagram but he was talking
(46:22):
about something right now istrying to be born and it's not
as loud and as fearful and darkas what is dying right.
Something right now is dying andsomething is waiting to be born
, and something is waiting to beborn and that's what I'm
(46:43):
holding my hope on and thathopefully, we live long enough
to see what is on the other sideof what we're living through
now.
But I think that we have toface what's in front of us right
here, right now, today.
So we can't go to the futurethere's no bus taking us there.
(47:04):
We can't live in the past.
There's no bus there, eventhough our minds want to go
there right.
What is right in front of usnow?
And that's what I'm trying tohold as an energy healing
practitioner, as a spiritualteacher, and holding on to the
light, but also dealing with thereality that's in front of us
(47:26):
and trying to find a way tomerge those things.
Frank (47:31):
If that makes sense, it does talking, because you
inspired me to write it down wasthat you know some of the
fearful things.
We can't ignore that they'rehappening, but fear without a
sense of empowerment of what todo about it is just half of the
story.
It's half of the journey, right?
(47:51):
So, like I suppose the bestantidote to any of the negative
emotions that you're having inthe current events are to find
things that empower you, and Isuppose any type of In a world
(48:12):
where, in a country in themoment, where they're trying to
take things away from you,finding your own sense of
empowerment, however that mightlook, is a way to fight back and
is a way to remember that youbelong.
You should be here.
John (48:28):
Yes, because you see so many people, spiritual teachers,
just everyday.
People don't obey in advance,right?
Lauren (48:41):
Yeah.
John (48:42):
Joy is still spread, joy still have a life right.
We can still have joy and loveand all those things, because
that's what they don't like.
They don't want to see us happy, because I think that's why
we're in that state as well, tosee us happy, because I think
that's why we're in that stateas well.
(49:02):
I have a theory on that thatwe're in this state because of
social media in a way, becausewhat you've seen in the birth of
social media in the last what15 years and everyone having
phones, right, we're seeingBlack people have told us for
centuries how they are policeddifferently.
George Floyd, we saw that onvideo Social media.
(49:27):
You see LGBT people sharingwhat we've gone through.
Black people are sharing it,women are sharing it now,
sharing their story with thewhole Me Too movement, their
bodily autonomy tank, right.
So collectively, society isseeing that marginalized people
(49:51):
aren't living the way everyoneelse is living in a way, right.
So we're showing you that onsocial media, marginalized
people and I think the rulingclass, the wealth class, like,
oh no, we can't have thatbecause, right, history shows us
in Germany in the early 30s,germany, berlin, was the most
(50:13):
progressive society in the worldand what happened, right.
So now we're seeing that, theprogressive, you're seeing
evolution happening.
You can't stop evolution, right?
That's why I think what'shappening with the trans
community, it's evolution.
It's always been there, butit's just coming into people's
(50:36):
minds and people can't handlethat.
It's just too much.
They can't understand whatsomeone who is intersex right,
or why would someone want tochange their, their genitalia.
They don't understand whatpeople other people feel inside.
They're only experiencing whatthey feel inside with them.
Yeah.
Frank (50:57):
Yeah, yeah, no 100%.
Lauren (51:02):
Sorry, I just want to go back to the.
I really like the.
It's such an interestingconcept about like fear being
louder than hope, like I wasboiling down, boiling it down to
what you were saying, butthat's my takeaway is that we're
(51:25):
so many people like it's, likethis collective, unhealed trauma
, exactly what we were talkingabout earlier.
Sometimes that's so much louderand more powerful, like
energetically keeping us allstuck, than choosing to like
(51:48):
have hope or go, and, you know,live in the light and in love
and all that.
John (51:55):
It's a really interesting way to think about it yeah, and
that's that's the greatest thingthat anyone can do, right.
So we're in this time andyou're feeling something, right
After the election that reallytriggered my fight or flight and
my safety and security.
I looked into should I fleethis country?
(52:17):
Right, that really triggered me.
So if those things aretriggering, you look in to find
out why follow those triggersand that could be a space of
healing for you.
And if you heal something, youheal the collective right.
So use this time to see why isthis triggering me in a way to
(52:41):
do your own personal healing,because the more people do that,
that heals the collective.
Lauren (52:49):
I love that.
I've been feeling like a littlemore like I get sensitive to
sadness or collective like fearand oh yeah, I'm gonna be, I'm
gonna be honest with everybodyfor a minute.
Frank (53:08):
It's not uncommon these days to walk into my family room
and see lauren draped over thecouch.
Lauren (53:13):
In in like a woe is me position like yeah, damsel and
I'm like hey, I'm sorry, I toldyou about the news today, but
yeah, like Frank, gets pissed, Iget sad and I think how that's
(53:35):
great advice to think about, toheal more in myself, because
there's clearly something that'striggering me regarding safety
or security, or or just fear orthe sadness what?
John (53:50):
what is making?
Why are you getting sad?
Yeah yeah you, we can't controlhow anybody else thinks or
feels, except for ourselves,right.
Lauren (54:03):
Yeah.
John (54:03):
We, we.
I want everyone to like, I wantto shake everyone and say wake
up.
But I can't Right.
That's, that's just.
That's my own control, right?
Yeah, I can only control me andmy responses, my reactions,
yeah.
Lauren (54:20):
That's great my reactions.
Yeah, that's great, John.
Frank (54:23):
Thank you, you know to make it sound like we, to make
it sound like this entireinterview was on purpose.
Lauren (54:29):
It was.
Frank (54:32):
Something that I noted when you said specifically don't
obey in advance.
I don't know, that's a line outof the On Tyranny book.
Huh yeah, obey in advance.
And that's a line out of the OnTyranny book.
Huh yeah, not obeying inadvance, relaying that to like
your personal journey.
You know, when you succumb tothe damage done or the unhealed
(54:54):
element of like your root chakra, you're really just falling
into line with people who knowhow to exploit that and like and
and you're an inspirationbecause, because you did the
right thing after you know 30something years and and figured
out how you needed to to workwithin the system, to be
yourself and, and I don't know,I guess maybe I'm proposing that
(55:19):
anybody who's having very,anybody who's having deep issues
regarding security about what'sgoing on in the world right now
personal security and feelingsafe it might be beneficial to
do some root chakra work and usethat as a source of your own
personal empowerment.
Make sure that you know thatyou feel safer.
Put yourself in an environmentthat makes you safe.
Get out of an environment thatmakes you feel unsafe.
Lauren (55:42):
Start doing that work and then start being yourself
yes I'm not a therapist no, butthat's inspiring me like to to
do, do some root chakra likeexercises or like you know,
extra stuff to help like keepthat root chakra more clear.
John (56:04):
I think it's important and healed and where are those
spaces right?
Families, jobs, maybefriendships, right?
Frank (56:12):
where are?
John (56:12):
those places that you don't feel safe, that you're,
you're maybe seeking thatexternal validation to feel safe
Right.
Frank (56:22):
Right and I'll also throw in there.
It can also be a point of uhno-transcript.
John (01:01:47):
So those are basic qualities of life.
So if I think, if those peoplestart losing that, maybe that
will wake them up.
Lauren (01:01:55):
I don't know, but I feel like we have to welcome that
yeah yeah, I also feel likeliving in shame or guilt doesn't
serve you at all.
So my my advice would be let itgo, move forward and forgive
(01:02:16):
yourself.
It's just a lesson.
That's anybody who makes awrong choice or well wrong.
Frank (01:02:23):
I'm a mistake.
We all make mistakes, we allmake mistakes.
Lauren (01:02:28):
But yeah, like it doesn't help you to kind of like
keep living in it.
Forgive and give yourself grace.
Frank (01:02:38):
Yeah.
Lauren (01:02:38):
That's with anything, yeah.
Frank (01:02:40):
Yeah, that's with anything.
Yeah, yeah.
John (01:02:42):
I will say for myself personally how I've handled it
with people in my life.
I do try to live my life by theJames Baldwin quote that we can
still disagree and love oneanother unless your disagreement
is rooted in my oppression, myright to exist.
And I just blanked on the thirdone.
(01:03:06):
There are three things in thatquote.
It's one of my favorite quotesand that's how I live my life
with them.
If there are people in my lifeand I'm'm perfect example
leaving that group, right, yeah,you, you.
Frank (01:03:22):
that didn't jibe with me, so I need to go now yeah that
quote actually makes me feelbetter because I've been trying
to figure out, because, likelauren said, like I get, I get a
little rageful and like what isit for someone who's trying to,
like you know, lead a spiritual, like healthy, high vibrational
life?
(01:03:43):
You know, feeling that ragelike I don't know what to do
with it, but also I'm onlyrageful because of what's being
done to other people and like itbrings up this existential
question for me is it okay tovery much dislike I'm avoiding
the word hate people who hateother people for no reason?
And you know, I just, I justthere's never a good time.
(01:04:07):
There's never a good time tohate, to oppress people.
John (01:04:10):
No no.
Frank (01:04:12):
And I'm wondering if maybe they are the bad guys.
I don't know, I don't know, Idon't know.
Lauren (01:04:27):
Well, man, john, this conversation has been so needed,
so necessary, I think, yeah,like especially, I mean for me
personally.
I'm like, oh, this has beenreally helpful, just thinking
about like fear and trauma andhow the current time, the
current events, are impactingjust me and like my wellbeing,
(01:04:48):
and I really appreciate yourinsight.
It's been, it's been reallyenlightening.
Frank (01:04:56):
Yeah, thank you very much .
Tell, tell everybody where towhere to find you and and and
and.
Yeah, like all your, all yourplugs for your.
I know you said you're off ofsocial now, but maybe a website
or something.
John (01:05:04):
Yeah, my website is johnnergycom and I'm also on
Instagram at Johnnergy Healingand on YouTube Johnnergy Healing
, and really try, if you'recurious about it.
Come to Insight Timer it's free.
It's a free wellness app.
I teach there, sometimes two tofive days a week and I do a lot
(01:05:25):
of trauma work.
I have two courses that werejust released on Inside Timer.
In October I actually merged myenergy healing practice with
the mother and father wound, soI merged those two modalities
together and I created twocourses on that, and that's part
(01:05:46):
of the Inside Timer premiumsubscription, which is only $60
a year.
You get access to thousands ofcourses and people are really
have gotten amazing responses tothe course and I do a lot of
that work, that trauma work, inmy Inside Timer Live.
So if you're curious about that, check out Inside Timer.
(01:06:10):
Come and, you know, come to oneof my lives.
Lauren (01:06:14):
Awesome, fantastic.
Frank (01:06:16):
John, you're a lovely person.
Thank you so much for your helptoday.
John (01:06:19):
Thank you so much for having me and reaching out.
Thank you very much.
Thank you so much, lovelyperson.
Thank you so much for your helptoday.
Thank you so much for having meand reaching out.
Thank you very much.
Lauren (01:06:23):
Thank you so much, John.
We'll talk to you soon.
Frank (01:06:32):
Thank you for listening.
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Backslash clairvoyaging.
This has been a production ofWayfeather Media.
Hey guys, today we talked to John Steen, an energy
healer and teacher.
We chatted about trauma healing, john's experience as a
previous federal employee and,of course, energy healing, and
more, lots more.
I'm Lauren Leon.
Frank (00:17):
And I'm Frank.
Lauren (00:18):
We are a married couple learning how to develop our own
intuition.
This is episode 60 of ClaireVoyaging.
Frank (00:43):
Wayfeather Media presents Claire Voyaging.
Let's post up Lauren.
We got a good one today, allright, let's go.
Lauren, we got a good one today, all right, let's go I'm sorry,
frank just tickled my neck.
Lauren (00:53):
You can't hear what's going on when the music's on.
Frank (00:54):
My god, that was so shocking it wasn't, it wasn't,
gentle?
Hello everyone it wasn't gentle.
Listen, it works on mythree-year-old yes why wouldn't
it work on you?
Lauren (01:05):
this is unfiltered.
Frank tickled my neck, you likedove I kind of wolverine
stabbed you yeah but, okay, hieveryone.
Welcome to claire voyagingwelcome to the show I'm sorry.
I'm sorry about him.
Guys, I to tell you we'vegotten some amazing emails from
you lately and I just want tosay, as always, thank you.
Frank (01:29):
Thank you.
Lauren (01:30):
For not only sharing your experience with us, but
just reaching out to say hi.
Frank (01:36):
Yeah, it's awesome.
Lauren (01:37):
Every time we get emails it's like, oh yeah, that's
awesome.
Frank (01:39):
Yeah.
Lauren (01:40):
It's great to hear that you like the podcast or that
something is resonating, and Ijust wanted to bring that up and
say thank you and keep it going.
Frank (01:48):
Yeah, it's very fun.
Yeah, right to us.
Send us something stupid.
I don't care, send me a meme.
I love memes.
Lauren (01:53):
Why not?
Yeah, also, um we we love theselike listener episodes that
we're doing on Patreon.
Frank (02:07):
So if you're not a Patreon member, get in there.
But also, if you just want totalk about your experience right
now, just reach out, we'll haveyou on the show.
It doesn't have to be on themain feed.
We can throw it on Patreon ifyou're not comfortable.
But if you're on the main feed,that's fine.
We want to hear from you, wewant to hear all about it.
Lauren (02:20):
So send us an email clearvoyagingpodcast at gmailcom
that's the one and, on thatnote, if you have a suggestion
for either a topic or a guestthat, like you know, maybe
you've talked to a medium thatyou really trust and like, or an
energy healer, tarot cardreader, somebody that would be
(02:41):
an interesting guest, please letus know yeah, who's out there
changing your life?
Frank (02:44):
yeah, I don to know what's going on.
What's made the big difference?
What's given you the hashtagGreat Awakening?
Oh, you know what I'll?
Lauren (02:57):
leave it.
What's up?
We want to know what's up.
You know what?
I don't have any other updates,so on that, we're just going to
get to John, let me let me, letme warn everybody.
Frank (03:10):
I'll give everybody a warning.
A little update, what littleupdate.
We're changing the intro songand I just don't want to shock
anybody.
Lauren (03:17):
It'll be yeah.
You know, it'll be a funsurprise when we release it.
Frank (03:22):
It'll be a fun surprise, you surprise, when we release it
.
It'll be a fun surprise, youknow, maybe next week.
Let's just say, yeah, well, nopromises.
We'll say okay, but uh, Ireached out to the person that
wrote the song originally.
We had gotten it as a stocksong.
I know I write music.
I didn't write this one.
Sometimes you just gottaoutsource, right?
Yeah, we found a good one.
Um, I found the person thatwrote our original song, the one
that you heard just now, andthey were down to make an
(03:44):
original that sounds verysimilar but is different.
Yeah, and uh, it's really cool.
He sent me a a draft of ittoday and it slaps yes, it does
so that's pretty fun.
Lauren (03:57):
Stay tuned.
We want to be able to use thesong for other things and, uh,
that's why frank reached out,because we were like we want to
have, like, free reign.
Frank (04:04):
Yeah we don't want like licensing issues and stuff.
So yeah, but you're going tolike it, you won't be
disappointed, I promise.
Lauren (04:09):
Guy, simon or Simone, I'm not sure.
Frank (04:13):
Simon Lapine, and we might be butchering that, but go
give him some business.
He's a songwriter, he's acomposer.
Lauren (04:20):
Yeah, so, yeah, yeah, so , uh, yeah, cool dude.
So now on to our episode.
We talked to john steen.
John steen and I really enjoyedthis episode.
Frank (04:32):
I really liked talking to him you know, sometimes you
just find the right person atthe right time to have the right
conversation with yeah and withthe state of things today.
Uh, you know the way things aregoing these days, with, I don't
know, maybe a little bit offascism up and coming, a little
bit of something.
Listen, I don't.
This show's not a politicalshow, obviously, but there we
(04:52):
run into a little.
I've run into a little bit ofan issue, and I know Lauren has
too.
We're trying to be spiritual,we're trying to like work on
ourselves and at the same time,it feels like the world is
crumbling around us.
Yeah.
So how do you do that?
You can't just ignore it, right.
So I found someone who haslearned how to not ignore it.
Lauren (05:11):
Yeah, so, and in like a healthy, really beautiful way.
He's a member of the lgbtqcommunity and so like his
perspective is really great.
He's an energy healer, so hisinsight on healing yourself and
all that especially during atime of such like turmoil and
(05:32):
it's really unsettling I reallyappreciated everything he had to
say.
I really enjoyed talking to him.
It's just nice sometimes tokind of get back to the trauma
healing conversation while alsointersecting and how it
intersects with politics or likethe state of current events.
Frank (05:53):
So you can do both.
Lauren (05:55):
I hope you enjoy this as much as I liked talking to him.
Frank (05:59):
We, we, yes yeah.
So Take it away, roll the tape,do you always try to come up?
Lauren (06:02):
with a new one, but you end up saying the same.
Take it away, roll the tape.
Frank (06:05):
Do you always try to come up with a new one, but you end
up saying the same thing, or islike roll the tape thing.
Lauren (06:09):
It's kind of just become a thing.
Ok, I'll try a new one.
Frank (06:12):
No, you don't have to.
I was just wondering.
Lauren (06:15):
Go run the marathon.
Frank (06:17):
No, that's no one's ever said that.
Give me like a Beastie Boysexclamatory.
Lauren (06:22):
Let it drop.
John Steen, thank you so muchfor joining us.
We love hearing people'sbackstories and how they got
here, so can you tell us a bitabout yourself and what brought
you to this work that you'redoing now?
John (06:40):
So about five years ago, in January of 2020, right before
the pandemic hit I had resignedfrom my 33 year career.
I worked for the federalgovernment for 33 years and I
had filed a discriminationlawsuit in 2016.
(07:01):
And just the retaliation fromfiling that for four to five
years and then I became awhistleblower on top of that.
The retaliation from that wasjust so immense that during that
time right in December of 2019,I was on vacation for two weeks
(07:27):
and they were retaliatingagainst me while I was on
vacation and for me.
There are some times when thingshave happened in my life that I
hear and feel a click inside meand feel a click inside me.
(07:49):
And while I was experiencingthat retaliation over the
Christmas and New Year holiday,I realized it's time for me to
leave.
I have to leave or I'm going todie.
I was having panic attackswhich I had never had in my
whole life, and so I made thedecision to resign from my
career.
I was four years shy ofreceiving my pension, which I'm
(08:14):
receiving now, but resigningmeant that I have no healthcare,
which was okay because I'm ingreat health have always been in
great health, thankfully and Ihad been saving money and I
decided to live off of my 401kand my goal was to go back to
(08:40):
work within a year, maybe take ayear off.
And then the pandemic hit and Ijust kind of went down a rabbit
hole there and I had put downmeditation which I had picked up
during the stress of my job.
A co worker had recommendedinsight timer to me to me.
(09:04):
And so I picked it back up inOctober of 2020.
And that's when Insight Timerstarted doing their live
sessions, and so I just immersedmyself in everything all these
different modalities that I hadnever even tried, and one of
(09:25):
them was energy healing, and Ihad never tried it.
I was doing it over my, throughmy phone, and for about six
months I was just noticing thischange within me and I decided
to take the class that theteacher was offering, and what I
(09:47):
had really actually realizedwas that the reaction to the
trauma of my job was really atrauma response from my entire
life, basically my childhood,that I have been trying to heal
my entire life.
I could never get anywherethrough therapy, group therapy,
(10:10):
going to Al-Anon, I could neverget anywhere.
So when I entered my 40s, Iactually just I had it was a I
kind of gave up in a way, whereI just realized I'm going to
have to learn to live with thisfeeling of abandonment that I
knew that I was carrying mywhole life, and so that's what I
(10:33):
did.
I kind of resigned and kind ofstopped doing spiritual stuff
and any type of healing, anytype of healing, and during that
five years of the work, stress.
As a spiritual person, I knewthat there had to be a bigger
reason and I constantly wasasking why is this happening to
(10:53):
me?
And I could never find a reasonbecause I was just so immersed
in it.
And it wasn't until after Iquit and was just doing a lot of
meditation and energy healingand that's when I got the answer
.
And it was my trauma, it wasthe universe was nudging me.
I have to deal with this,abandonment issues, I have to
(11:19):
deal with what happened to me asa child and so that, doing the
energy healing, I was able toget to my trauma, my childhood
trauma, in a very, very shorttime.
And when I started this journeywith energy healing, my goal
wasn't really to become apractitioner myself, although I
(11:41):
left that door open because Ididn't know what I was going to
do with the rest of my lifeafter I quit my job.
And then, as I just immersedmyself with the class and the
teachings and the healing that Iwas doing, that's when I just I
said I have to let other peopleknow about this, like many
(12:05):
things that I've read, and evenmy teachers say energy healing
accelerates healing and I haveexperienced that myself in the
teaching that I'm doing.
(12:28):
It's just a really amazingmodality, healing modality that
has just changed my life andchanged the course and direction
of my life.
Lauren (12:39):
Okay, I love that, love that I I can relate to that so
much because I learned reiki, uh, like over a year ago, and I
mean our listeners have heard mein the midst of like huge
bursts of healing, um, and it'sso incredible how it really does
(13:03):
change.
Like it's so different fromtherapy, because you can talk
about the problem all day butthere's something different
about like getting in thereenergetically and like releasing
it and letting it go and likejust understanding like kind of
the bigger picture.
So I love that.
(13:24):
That's really inspiring.
Frank (13:27):
Yeah, let me ask you, obviously, like traditional
therapy versus doing your owninternal trauma work.
It's it's two differentmodalities, right Of, of healing
and the thing I always avoidedtherapy because in and not I'm
not speaking poorly abouttherapy, but I've always avoided
, avoided therapy because I'mvery heady and I think about
(13:49):
this stuff already and I wasalways like, oh well, there's
nothing that anyone's going totell me that I haven't thought
of.
And then when I was like I guessI guess this is just the way I
am, but then one around the timeI got around to like learning
reiki also lauren attuned to meand then I learned more about
doing your own internal traumawork.
It's like, oh wait, I have amain line to these uncomfortable
(14:10):
feelings and I don't needsomeone else to tell me, like to
try and trigger me so that Ican get raw and start feeling it
.
So much of it is just like youhave access to your own healing
path already.
So I don't know.
I just wanted to hear a littlebit more about how that worked
out for you, like therealization of you know, after
so much time, like that you cando it yourself.
John (14:32):
That has been my journey, right, that for energy healing.
What my journey with it?
It creates the space within myenergy field, my system, my body
, and what was happening isthere were triggers that were
occurring in my life and theywere with my friends and what I
(14:53):
did is I followed those triggersanytime something happened and
that was able to get me to thetrauma, to my pain with my
parents.
My mom was an alcoholic growingup, so that was a big source of
my trauma and she drank whileshe was pregnant with all three
(15:14):
kids.
I'm the oldest of three.
So my first journey with theenergy healing was actually
doing some womb healing, whichis very, very deep, deep work,
because most people I mean wecan say, like you can hear
someone talk about that and it'slike, oh, the mother drank when
(15:36):
she was pregnant, like we canall vision, like, oh, that's
horrible, that's not.
You know, the child is going togrow up.
It can be some cognitiveproblems maybe in their brain,
right, and an adult, and yes,I've experienced all that.
But we all have stuff in thewomb.
We are all affected by theenergy of whatever the mom was
(16:02):
experiencing and feeling herselfin her own wounds.
If you know.
That's how it's kind of allpassed down in a way that that
generational trauma, and thenhow her spouse or partner is
treating her right, how she'sfeeling and receiving that.
So we all have that womb stuffgoing on within us, but some of
(16:26):
us it is a little deeper.
So that's where it went for meto start.
It was going in to do some wombhealing.
Frank (16:35):
I don't think we've encountered that term before
womb healing.
Can you tell us what that is?
John (16:42):
There are things that, with the modality that I use
with field dynamics, it's athree.
Most of the we call themprotocols and they're 60 minutes
, but if I work with clients orgroups, I would do 45 minutes to
50 minutes.
And there's this three hourprotocol that we do for womb
(17:04):
healing and it's kind of calledenergetic recapitulation and
it's about going back and beingin the womb and it's about going
back when you are.
I can't recall specifically thetimeframe, but it's, let's say,
(17:29):
three months while you're, youknow, gestation period, and then
maybe six months or nine monthsand you can do it over and over
this energetic recapitulation.
Energetic recapitulation Becausewhat I've learned as well is if
you I'm not sure if you'refamiliar with Anodea Judith she
(17:58):
does a lot of chakra books andtalks a lot about chakras and
she talks about if you have adamaged root chakra, then all of
your chakras will be damaged.
And so I kind of now thinking,okay, I have this experience,
this womb trauma, my motherdrank right.
That affected me.
How has that affected all of myother chakras?
Lauren (18:21):
in a way, yeah, that's so interesting because I mean
like linking the root chakrawith the womb.
The root chakra is responsiblefor like safety, security,
belonging, and if you're likegoing back into doing womb
healing and you maybe didn'teven realize, obviously
(18:43):
consciously, that you weren'tfeeling safe or secure because
of the like energetic stuffgoing on, that's so interesting.
John (18:53):
Yeah, for me, what I wrote a blog about it too is I could
just picture me as a fetus andbeing fed alcohol and trying to
escape and get out of there wowlike the little, my little arms
and legs yeah you know, justreacting to that alcohol in my
(19:13):
system yeah, oh my gosh so is,excuse me, so you you kind of uh
, are you?
Frank (19:21):
are you uh envisioning this in a meditative state, or
are you actually like, yeah, howdoes this?
What's the actual process?
That didn't this in ameditative state, or are you
actually like, what's the actualprocess?
John (19:27):
That didn't happen in a meditative state for me, that
was just my thoughts andfeelings about what was
happening in the womb, the thingthat happened for me my whole
life.
I always wondered where and howmy abandonment issues, where
they started was it because thishappened at five years old, or
(19:50):
this happened at six years old?
Had a live was very, verytraumatic childhood and once I
allowed myself to say, oh, thisstarted in the womb because my
mother drank.
Everything opened up for mearound that.
I burst into tears and was ableto go to that and feel the
(20:15):
trauma in a way.
Lauren (20:20):
Like yes, this is where it started for me.
John (20:22):
Wow, yeah, I mean, that makes sense.
It releases blocks in oursystem.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Trauma, it releases blocks inour system.
Lauren (20:26):
Yeah, can you say what the energy modality is?
John (20:46):
healing energy field dynamics and I found them on
Inside Timer.
They're amazing teachers andthe modality is very, very
strong and very potent and it'sjust, it's worked wonders for me
.
You know, now that I'm teachingit and have clients and you
know, teach on Inside Timer.
I'm seeing amazing experienceswith people, you know, doing it
collectively in groups.
(21:06):
That feels like my morespecialty.
Lauren (21:09):
Yeah, oh, that's so cool .
Frank (21:11):
Why don't I have Insight Timer?
You know we interviewed anotherteacher from Insight Timer,
latanya Hill, and she was soawesome and you're already so
awesome Like I need to get onthis thing right now.
Lauren (21:20):
This is like a commercial Insight Hill.
I did write Insight Hill you onthis thing right now.
Frank (21:22):
This is like a commercial .
I think you just typed inInsight Hill.
Lauren (21:24):
I did write Insight Hill .
You know what I shouldn't be?
Frank (21:26):
downloading apps in the middle of a podcast anyway, so
I'll do that later I've usedInsight.
That's how I found it, I know,I know Insight.
Lauren (21:32):
Timer is great.
Frank (21:34):
I guess my question now, if it's not too personal, is
like root chakra damage fromyour before you did your womb
healing.
How was that?
Um, I don't know.
How was history repeatingessentially with your, your
friends and stuff, what wastriggering for you?
John (21:51):
Um, yeah, it was my codependency and people pleasing
, yeah, seeking externalvalidation.
Frank (22:00):
Got it.
John (22:02):
Through this experience that I've been through this past
four plus years of this healingpart of my journey, I've always
I moved.
I grew up in Massachusetts,boston, and I moved to San
Francisco in 1988.
And so I created and formed myown family.
(22:25):
Right God, I just forgot theterm that we all would use your
chosen family, my chosen family.
Lauren (22:31):
Yeah.
John (22:32):
I had friends 20, 30 years of friends and most of them are
all gone now I have lost somany of my friends in this
journey.
I was actually surprised bythat because I did feel secure
in my relationships with myfriends because they lasted so
(22:54):
long.
But I was holding on so tightand I was people pleasing and
codependent with every singleperson and that's all root
chakra stuff and for me it's thesafety and security right.
I'm seeking their validation.
I'm trying to get that safetyand security by seeking the
validation.
(23:14):
And then fear.
Fear is such a big thing for mein my life and that's all root
chakra stuff as well.
That's the shadow of the rootchakra is fear.
So that all really worked.
It's just like kind of put mein a rabbit hole in a way.
(23:35):
It was very hard losing allthose friends, but I have to say
it needed to happen.
I can go inside and feel likethis is what actually needed to
happen for me to grow and levelup and move to the next level or
ascend up in a way.
(23:56):
Yeah, how did they handle that?
Frank (23:57):
to grow and level up and move to the next level or ascend
up in a way.
Yeah, how did they handle that?
John (24:00):
I didn't really talk about what I was going through, in a
way, with the energy healing.
I would speak a little bitabout it, but there wasn't much
curiosity because I had noboundaries either.
And so once I started assertingmy boundaries and asserting
myself, that's when, when theconflicts came was it like a
(24:24):
natural separation then, likeyou just divided over time?
Frank (24:27):
or did you?
Were you like I can't hang outwith you because I have a
codependency?
John (24:31):
Yeah, it was all of it yeah.
Frank (24:34):
Yeah.
John (24:35):
Cause I have actually gone figuring out like oh you know,
my mom was a narcissist.
Well, look, here's a bunch offriends that I can see
narcissistic tendencies.
Right, like how I attractedthat because I'm so used to that
.
Lauren (24:50):
Yeah, yeah, that unhealed part that, if you're
you know, if you have so muchunhealed trauma, your body seeks
what it knows.
Frank (25:00):
Also narcissists find you .
Lauren (25:02):
Right, yeah, I mean, a narcissist wants to hang out
with the people, pleaser,because they're going to do
everything they want you to doand your fear of abandonment
(25:25):
keeps you in that relationshipbecause you're so worried that
whatever you're going to do isgoing to.
I feel this a lot worried thatlike upsetting someone is going
to the ultimate.
What if in conflict?
For me is always they're notgoing to be friends with me
anymore.
I'll never talk to them againbecause they don't like me or
don't want me around or whatever.
To them again because theydon't like me or don't want me
around or whatever.
And so you kind of keepperpetuating that cycle and
(25:45):
seeking out people that'll keepfeeding that monster 100 percent
, yeah, wow and did you findthat, like your work, your work
experience was also mirroringthat relationship?
John (26:02):
Oh, absolutely.
I actually had realized that 20years before, when I first had
around 2000,.
I had a problem at my jobbecause I stayed at this one
agency for 28 years and I hadalso filed a discrimination
lawsuit.
And I realized at that time mestaying with the federal
(26:23):
government because you prettymuch have to murder someone to
get fired from the federalgovernment.
And until now until now, for meit was security.
I was searching for thatsecurity.
So when something started tohappen 20 years prior that put
(26:44):
me into a tailspin and Irealized I knew that it was a
security thing going on.
And I was seeking that security,but I didn't heal that part of
me.
So to your question yes, 100%,that that is exactly why I
stayed for so long.
Well, right, being treated theway I was being treated, instead
(27:07):
of asserting myself and sayingI'm getting out of here.
You know, I deserve better thanthis.
Yeah, because it was secure forme I've.
Lauren (27:18):
I mean I feel like a lot of people can relate to staying
in a job that's not right foryou, but it's safe oh, yeah, hi
hi yep a lot of people canrelate to also staying in like a
relationship because it's safe,even though you know hi even
though not you, I know I hopeI've been in this way too long
(27:45):
Wow.
Frank (27:47):
This is a really weird way to tell me, babe.
Lauren (27:52):
No, but I had.
I was also, I was in a job thatwasn't right for me, toxic like
, but felt safe because it waslike you know, well, paying like
it paid well, all that.
And then a relationship thatwas like I don't think this is
the right one, but safety,because also, again, that fear
(28:16):
of what does this, the fear ofnot having that safety, feels a
little bit worse than like well,I know this, you know, even if
it's a little off.
John (28:29):
Yes, fear keeps you stuck, 100%.
It's something that I stillconstantly work with around is
fear.
There is this teacher on insidetimer who talks about fear and
it really struck me.
Fear keeps you stuck in yourego.
It keeps that focus on yourselfand like, oh, that's a great
(28:53):
way to look at it.
Right, I'm stuck in my ego self.
Yeah, oh, my gosh, this doesnot matter, that's a great way
to look at it Right, I'm just,I'm stuck in my ego self.
Frank (29:00):
Yeah, oh, my gosh.
This does not matter, but outof curiosity, which agency was
it I?
I worked Just to be clear.
I have cosmic level clearance,so like your secrets are safe
with me.
John (29:11):
I worked for the drug enforcement administration.
Oh wow, yeah, okay.
And the drug enforcementadministration?
Oh wow, yeah, okay.
And um, um, I've not.
I've never mentioned what mywhistleblowing is in public and
I don't feel comfortable stilldoing that.
But going on, it was nevercleared and it's it's pretty um
(29:34):
drastic why it's pretty bad justsaying that, yeah, I mean wow
with.
Frank (29:40):
I mean that's a big.
I think we can all assume, yeah, yeah, we can all assume what's
allowed to happen and that'slike that kind of stuff is
insane.
Speaking of speaking of notbeing happy with the government,
there's a lot going on thesedays.
Yeah, this and to for anybodywho's listening to this in the
(30:04):
future, it is today is february5th, 2025 and shit's gone
sideways.
And you know personally, youknow, john, I saw you, um, was
it on Instagram?
Yeah, I saw a video you put onInstagram where you were talking
about like you know how you canstruggle with being a spiritual
(30:29):
person, trying to be likesomeone who's living in high
vibes and like trying to be thechange you want to see in the
world, but then how do youinteract with the world?
That's not doing the thing thatit should be doing or
respecting um, respecting peoplein human life.
Lauren (30:44):
Right.
So what made you want to talkto John was because you saw a
video where you said you were ina mindfulness class and someone
started talking.
I'm interested in how this cameup, because you said someone
started saying illegals and theywere like I don't feel
comfortable with this and thenyou left the class.
Frank (31:02):
Can you talk about that?
Yeah, let's let them tell thestory, okay, yeah?
John (31:05):
yeah, um, I there, I was with this, um it's through
whatsapp.
Um, um, we were.
It was a chat group.
They were friends that I'vemade over the years from Insight
Timer.
So there were and it's five ofus in the United States, one
European and two people fromIndia, and we talk about a lot
(31:30):
of things in the chat.
It's one of those chat thingsthat is daily all the time, and
it was a beautiful supportsystem that we created there for
about three years and I was theonly male in that chat group
and this person just it's notthe first time they had done it
(31:54):
used the term illegals todescribe migrants, and the first
time that they did it, I didn'tsay anything because they were
having a conversation withsomeone who was actually an
immigrant.
Lauren (32:10):
And.
John (32:10):
I was a little surprised they didn't speak up.
So I felt bad that I didn'tspeak up at that time.
And then I actually had aconversation with that person
where she was also demeaningtowards trans people and other
people spoke up and, you know,were supportive of my position
(32:37):
and because I was trying toeducate this person about trans
issues.
And so then all of a sudden itjust out of the blue it came up.
This person used the termillegals to describe migrants
and I shot back just saying, hey, migrants.
(32:59):
And I shot back just saying hey, could we please not use that
term?
There is no person on earth whois illegal.
People may do illegal things,but nobody is illegal.
Lauren (33:07):
Yeah.
John (33:07):
This is not.
It's a very dehumanizing term.
Yeah, please not say that.
And the person who is animmigrant chimed in and she
explained she didn't like thatterm either and how it has been
used against her and da da, da,da da.
And so then I woke up the nextmorning with uh to the text and
(33:31):
saying, um, it is not adehumanizing term, I'm going to
use it and I'm not going to belectured to.
Frank (33:41):
The classic double down, oh man.
John (33:44):
Total double down and I was very you know mindful in
both of my responses and I justsaid, okay, this is just not the
space for me If this is what'sgoing to be used, because I also
brought up being an LGBT personof the time that they had used
(34:08):
a meaning language to describetrans people, and so when in my
response I was totally dismissed, nothing about the comments on
LGBT were brought up, and so Iwas like this does not feel good
, this does not feel safe and Ihave to assert my boundaries,
(34:29):
and so I decided to leave thegroup.
And I don't know how separatepeople.
They all reached out to me,including this person, sent a
separate message but didn't eventake responsibility for their
language or their demeaning toneor language and didn't even
(34:54):
acknowledge my feelings.
It was just like oh, I'm sorry,you feel unsafe?
Frank (35:01):
Oof.
That's what I said.
John (35:05):
It was just like and I didn't even respond to the
message Just like there was no,I can't get through to this
person.
They're not going to hear me oracknowledge my feelings
whatsoever, so I let that go.
But other people were verysupportive and sorry to see me
leave.
Lauren (35:24):
Yeah, that's the worst response.
I'm sorry you feel unsafe.
I'm sorry I created anenvironment that made you feel
unsafe.
That's insane.
Frank (35:36):
So, lauren and I are kind of new to the you know
spiritual world, like.
We've been doing this podcastfor a year and this has been our
big like reorganization of ourown personal spiritual beliefs
through, through interviews andtalking to people who are in it
every day um, people likeyourself.
One of the biggestdisappointing things that I've
(35:57):
found is that, even as aspiritual spiritual community,
there are, there's, there's aalmost a subset of a toxic
spirituality that resembles Idon't even know it's.
It's exactly what you ran into.
It's like, oh, like, how do you, how do you believe in?
Um, healing and energetic?
(36:18):
And, like you, I think what youdescribed as like the, the
freedom to exist in thespiritual world, which is what
the spiritual world is, and thenalso be comfortable with, with
being demeaning, is what'shappening.
What is this?
John (36:32):
those two things there.
I mean I have to say it'smanipulation, right?
Because when, if your, if yourwords, if your words and actions
aren't matching, that'smanipulation, and refusing to
take responsibility or be heldaccountable for it, that's
gaslighting.
That's what I'm seeing going onthere.
Lauren (36:58):
I don't know.
I feel like there's some falsespirituality also.
There's people who are like I'mgoing to get in a group of
people and we're going to dressin white dresses and, like you
know, use oil and and vote forRFK, and we're holistic and we
(37:23):
don't.
You know, like it's that overthe top, like, but it's like.
Frank (37:29):
Well, it's like it's ego infused spirituality and it's
and it's gatekeeping for otherpeople.
Lauren (37:35):
And it feels false.
And they're the woo-woo peoplesometimes.
Frank (37:40):
Well, we're the woo-woo people too, I know this sounds
judgy.
Yeah.
Lauren (37:42):
But it feels inauthentic .
Frank (37:47):
Well, it's gatekeeping, it's setting up a hierarchy.
You need them to do it andbecause it's feeding their ego,
they also let you know.
Here's the new rules.
And also, I don't like illegals, something like that, where
it's like they're just making upstuff yeah it's not true.
There's true elements to it,which is, and that makes it even
more dangerous.
I think that's why it's sodisappointing is if you're
(38:08):
presenting yourself in under theguise of like, like, open
mindedness and spirituality andlike, everyone has the right to
exist and love and compassionand all those things, but you're
not showing that.
Yeah it's, it's dangerousbecause people who are ready for
a spiritual journey, a real one, like, might find those people
(38:28):
first and, and yeah, just getstuck in an entirely different
system of inauthenticity, of, of, of, of, you know, toxic
behavior.
John (38:38):
Yes.
Frank (38:40):
That scares the crap out of me.
I found them.
I found them in 2020, whenwe're all locked down.
When you found insight timer.
I found the people who are veryinto like QA, non and like deep
conspiracies and I was likewhat?
And initially I was like Lauren, look, how funny this is.
And then it started to not befunny because I realized how
many of them there were and howthey were also very ingrained
into this new age spiritualityand and they're still out there.
Lauren (39:04):
There is an intersection where there's like the kind of
not so like QA, non type, andthen and then the the spiritual,
like wait, but but you knowI've been red pilled or whatever
.
It's not quite a spiritualawakening.
You know, if you're just buyinginto like every conspiracy
(39:27):
possible, and that's the otherthing.
Frank (39:28):
Is they like they?
They hijacked all the termslike spiritual awakening and all
these things you type in.
Spiritual awakening, it's goingto be 50 50 on whatever
platform you're on.
Some awakening, it's going tobe 50, 50 on whatever platform
you're on.
Some of those people are goingto be dangerous.
Right, and it's it's.
It's horrifying to me.
John (39:42):
And then they, they've taken, like I, I like to use the
term God to use um, highersource, higher power, infinite
spirit.
You know all the, all differentterms.
I still use god and they'velike hijacked the term god.
Yeah, well, yeah, you have tobe a right winger christian, you
(40:04):
know yeah yes, 100, yeah it's,it's disappointing, it's
disappointing and dangerous.
Frank (40:13):
Under this, like under the current circumstances that
we're, in which you know,there's a lot of uncomfortable
feelings that are coming up forme.
I I grew up.
My audience is tired of hearingthis, but I'm gonna say it
again.
I grew up like playing in punkbands and stuff.
Granted, we were like suburbanpunk, so it was mostly like
complaining about your parentsand your teachers and stuff like
that.
But you know, now, as an adult,you know my parents are my
(40:35):
friends and, uh, I don't likethe government now, uh, so you
never did.
I never did but, like you know,uh, I'm in a situation now and I
think a lot of people are wherewhere, um, if you are focused
on your own spiritual journeyand trying to heal and become a
(40:58):
better version of yourself, andyou have two options and it's to
like, continue trying to engagein the world and deal with
difficult emotions, or turn offthe news and and disengage
entirely.
And if you decide to engage, itcan.
It can start, uh, it's roadbumps in your spiritual journey.
If you don to engage, it canstart.
(41:19):
It's road bumps in yourspiritual journey if you don't
know how to handle it correctly.
And if you disengage, yourspiritual journey is false, in
my opinion, because part of yourexistence is you need to
participate in society.
John (41:32):
Yes.
Frank (41:34):
So what the hell do we do , man, like I'm trying to be,
like like exhibit high vibes andstuff and like be the person
that I want to be, but at theend of a long day and I hear you
know, the baby tea, like, say,is terrible things and I have a
little bit of rage in my heartand I don't know how to process
(41:54):
that, and I'm sure a lot ofpeople don't.
Do you have, do you havesuggestions?
John (41:59):
I was.
I was after the election.
I I was going to do exactlywhat you were talking about.
I'm going to check out.
I can't deal with this anymore.
Like let me turn this over.
I, you know, as someone older,you know, let the, let the
(42:20):
younger gays handle this.
Frank (42:22):
Yeah.
John (42:24):
If they can get off their phones, right, I wanted to check
out.
I stopped watching news.
I haven't gone back to the news.
I'm a news junkie.
My whole life I've been a newsjunkie.
What happened for me?
I've had a great with all thistime.
(42:44):
I've had great bouts ofcreativity happen for me, right?
So, um, and then I'm I thought,well, like how do I speak about
this, my feelings, and justgoing quiet and going within in
December really, really helpedme that time that, no, I can't
(43:06):
exactly what you said.
That's not if I disengage,that's not living the spiritual
life, right, that's.
I'm here on a journey anddealing with what is in front of
me is part of that journey,right, we're all part of a
(43:27):
collective society.
Yep, I think my soul wanted tocome here at this time, right?
Okay, so now half of us aredealing with this, let's just
say, in America, even thoughit's happening all over the
world.
Frank (43:42):
Sure yeah.
John (43:44):
So, ok, what are we doing now?
What, like?
What do we do?
And I do think that there are.
I'm not sure if you're familiarwith Lisa A Romano.
No she's she teach.
She's an amazing teacher.
She talks a lot aboutnarcissism and adult children of
alcoholics and she had thistalk the beginning of December
(44:05):
that I honestly try to listen toevery day.
It's a self-empowerment talkand she says if there are people
out there spiritual teachers,politicians saying look how bad
the election is and they're justconstantly spreading fear,
right, which I can easily getinto and maybe distrust that
(44:30):
right, if we're going to, ifyou're a spiritual teacher, you
have to hang on to the lightright.
Hang on to the light right.
Offer hope and faith.
Right, I'm going to be 58 soon.
I've seen a lot, you know.
I came out in the mid 80s atthe beginning of AIDS.
(44:50):
I know how bad these people are.
I've seen it my whole life.
At that time in the the 80s,gay men were the most
dehumanized people on the planetyeah it's, very few people can
understand what what that waslike.
And so now that we're seeingthat happening to trans people,
(45:14):
and now it's you know, it's thethe dehumanization of migrants
and the dehumanization of blackpeople, which has always, always
, always been there, which we'venever dealt with in this
country.
You're seeing it all comingtogether and I don't know if
that, I don't know if we'reseeing yet that collective
(45:40):
action, but I do think we haveto stay focused on the light,
because if we go dark and be allnegative and in the dark,
that's not going to work eitherright.
Light helps the darkness, so wejust have to keep shining that
(46:02):
light and that I do believe thatwe will get through this,
because right before theelection, I saw a social media
post on TikTok, which I've nowdeleted, but this minister I
forget where he is, it's on myInstagram but he was talking
(46:22):
about something right now istrying to be born and it's not
as loud and as fearful and darkas what is dying right.
Something right now is dying andsomething is waiting to be born
, and something is waiting to beborn and that's what I'm
(46:43):
holding my hope on and thathopefully, we live long enough
to see what is on the other sideof what we're living through
now.
But I think that we have toface what's in front of us right
here, right now, today.
So we can't go to the futurethere's no bus taking us there.
(47:04):
We can't live in the past.
There's no bus there, eventhough our minds want to go
there right.
What is right in front of usnow?
And that's what I'm trying tohold as an energy healing
practitioner, as a spiritualteacher, and holding on to the
light, but also dealing with thereality that's in front of us
(47:26):
and trying to find a way tomerge those things.
Frank (47:31):
If that makes sense, it does talking, because you
inspired me to write it down wasthat you know some of the
fearful things.
We can't ignore that they'rehappening, but fear without a
sense of empowerment of what todo about it is just half of the
story.
It's half of the journey, right?
(47:51):
So, like I suppose the bestantidote to any of the negative
emotions that you're having inthe current events are to find
things that empower you, and Isuppose any type of In a world
(48:12):
where, in a country in themoment, where they're trying to
take things away from you,finding your own sense of
empowerment, however that mightlook, is a way to fight back and
is a way to remember that youbelong.
You should be here.
John (48:28):
Yes, because you see so many people, spiritual teachers,
just everyday.
People don't obey in advance,right?
Lauren (48:41):
Yeah.
John (48:42):
Joy is still spread, joy still have a life right.
We can still have joy and loveand all those things, because
that's what they don't like.
They don't want to see us happy, because I think that's why
we're in that state as well, tosee us happy, because I think
that's why we're in that stateas well.
(49:02):
I have a theory on that thatwe're in this state because of
social media in a way, becausewhat you've seen in the birth of
social media in the last what15 years and everyone having
phones, right, we're seeingBlack people have told us for
centuries how they are policeddifferently.
George Floyd, we saw that onvideo Social media.
(49:27):
You see LGBT people sharingwhat we've gone through.
Black people are sharing it,women are sharing it now,
sharing their story with thewhole Me Too movement, their
bodily autonomy tank, right.
So collectively, society isseeing that marginalized people
(49:51):
aren't living the way everyoneelse is living in a way, right.
So we're showing you that onsocial media, marginalized
people and I think the rulingclass, the wealth class, like,
oh no, we can't have thatbecause, right, history shows us
in Germany in the early 30s,germany, berlin, was the most
(50:13):
progressive society in the worldand what happened, right.
So now we're seeing that, theprogressive, you're seeing
evolution happening.
You can't stop evolution, right?
That's why I think what'shappening with the trans
community, it's evolution.
It's always been there, butit's just coming into people's
(50:36):
minds and people can't handlethat.
It's just too much.
They can't understand whatsomeone who is intersex right,
or why would someone want tochange their, their genitalia.
They don't understand whatpeople other people feel inside.
They're only experiencing whatthey feel inside with them.
Yeah.
Frank (50:57):
Yeah, yeah, no 100%.
Lauren (51:02):
Sorry, I just want to go back to the.
I really like the.
It's such an interestingconcept about like fear being
louder than hope, like I wasboiling down, boiling it down to
what you were saying, butthat's my takeaway is that we're
(51:25):
so many people like it's, likethis collective, unhealed trauma
, exactly what we were talkingabout earlier.
Sometimes that's so much louderand more powerful, like
energetically keeping us allstuck, than choosing to like
(51:48):
have hope or go, and, you know,live in the light and in love
and all that.
John (51:55):
It's a really interesting way to think about it yeah, and
that's that's the greatest thingthat anyone can do, right.
So we're in this time andyou're feeling something, right
After the election that reallytriggered my fight or flight and
my safety and security.
I looked into should I fleethis country?
(52:17):
Right, that really triggered me.
So if those things aretriggering, you look in to find
out why follow those triggersand that could be a space of
healing for you.
And if you heal something, youheal the collective right.
So use this time to see why isthis triggering me in a way to
(52:41):
do your own personal healing,because the more people do that,
that heals the collective.
Lauren (52:49):
I love that.
I've been feeling like a littlemore like I get sensitive to
sadness or collective like fearand oh yeah, I'm gonna be, I'm
gonna be honest with everybodyfor a minute.
Frank (53:08):
It's not uncommon these days to walk into my family room
and see lauren draped over thecouch.
Lauren (53:13):
In in like a woe is me position like yeah, damsel and
I'm like hey, I'm sorry, I toldyou about the news today, but
yeah, like Frank, gets pissed, Iget sad and I think how that's
(53:35):
great advice to think about, toheal more in myself, because
there's clearly something that'striggering me regarding safety
or security, or or just fear orthe sadness what?
John (53:50):
what is making?
Why are you getting sad?
Yeah yeah you, we can't controlhow anybody else thinks or
feels, except for ourselves,right.
Lauren (54:03):
Yeah.
John (54:03):
We, we.
I want everyone to like, I wantto shake everyone and say wake
up.
But I can't Right.
That's, that's just.
That's my own control, right?
Yeah, I can only control me andmy responses, my reactions,
yeah.
Lauren (54:20):
That's great my reactions.
Yeah, that's great, John.
Frank (54:23):
Thank you, you know to make it sound like we, to make
it sound like this entireinterview was on purpose.
Lauren (54:29):
It was.
Frank (54:32):
Something that I noted when you said specifically don't
obey in advance.
I don't know, that's a line outof the On Tyranny book.
Huh yeah, obey in advance.
And that's a line out of the OnTyranny book.
Huh yeah, not obeying inadvance, relaying that to like
your personal journey.
You know, when you succumb tothe damage done or the unhealed
(54:54):
element of like your root chakra, you're really just falling
into line with people who knowhow to exploit that and like and
and you're an inspirationbecause, because you did the
right thing after you know 30something years and and figured
out how you needed to to workwithin the system, to be
yourself and, and I don't know,I guess maybe I'm proposing that
(55:19):
anybody who's having very,anybody who's having deep issues
regarding security about what'sgoing on in the world right now
personal security and feelingsafe it might be beneficial to
do some root chakra work and usethat as a source of your own
personal empowerment.
Make sure that you know thatyou feel safer.
Put yourself in an environmentthat makes you safe.
Get out of an environment thatmakes you feel unsafe.
Lauren (55:42):
Start doing that work and then start being yourself
yes I'm not a therapist no, butthat's inspiring me like to to
do, do some root chakra likeexercises or like you know,
extra stuff to help like keepthat root chakra more clear.
John (56:04):
I think it's important and healed and where are those
spaces right?
Families, jobs, maybefriendships, right?
Frank (56:12):
where are?
John (56:12):
those places that you don't feel safe, that you're,
you're maybe seeking thatexternal validation to feel safe
Right.
Frank (56:22):
Right and I'll also throw in there.
It can also be a point of uhno-transcript.
John (01:01:47):
So those are basic qualities of life.
So if I think, if those peoplestart losing that, maybe that
will wake them up.
Lauren (01:01:55):
I don't know, but I feel like we have to welcome that
yeah yeah, I also feel likeliving in shame or guilt doesn't
serve you at all.
So my my advice would be let itgo, move forward and forgive
(01:02:16):
yourself.
It's just a lesson.
That's anybody who makes awrong choice or well wrong.
Frank (01:02:23):
I'm a mistake.
We all make mistakes, we allmake mistakes.
Lauren (01:02:28):
But yeah, like it doesn't help you to kind of like
keep living in it.
Forgive and give yourself grace.
Frank (01:02:38):
Yeah.
Lauren (01:02:38):
That's with anything, yeah.
Frank (01:02:40):
Yeah, that's with anything.
Yeah, yeah.
John (01:02:42):
I will say for myself personally how I've handled it
with people in my life.
I do try to live my life by theJames Baldwin quote that we can
still disagree and love oneanother unless your disagreement
is rooted in my oppression, myright to exist.
And I just blanked on the thirdone.
(01:03:06):
There are three things in thatquote.
It's one of my favorite quotesand that's how I live my life
with them.
If there are people in my lifeand I'm'm perfect example
leaving that group, right, yeah,you, you.
Frank (01:03:22):
that didn't jibe with me, so I need to go now yeah that
quote actually makes me feelbetter because I've been trying
to figure out, because, likelauren said, like I get, I get a
little rageful and like what isit for someone who's trying to,
like you know, lead a spiritual, like healthy, high vibrational
life?
(01:03:43):
You know, feeling that ragelike I don't know what to do
with it, but also I'm onlyrageful because of what's being
done to other people and like itbrings up this existential
question for me is it okay tovery much dislike I'm avoiding
the word hate people who hateother people for no reason?
And you know, I just, I justthere's never a good time.
(01:04:07):
There's never a good time tohate, to oppress people.
John (01:04:10):
No no.
Frank (01:04:12):
And I'm wondering if maybe they are the bad guys.
I don't know, I don't know, Idon't know.
Lauren (01:04:27):
Well, man, john, this conversation has been so needed,
so necessary, I think, yeah,like especially, I mean for me
personally.
I'm like, oh, this has beenreally helpful, just thinking
about like fear and trauma andhow the current time, the
current events, are impactingjust me and like my wellbeing,
(01:04:48):
and I really appreciate yourinsight.
It's been, it's been reallyenlightening.
Frank (01:04:56):
Yeah, thank you very much .
Tell, tell everybody where towhere to find you and and and
and.
Yeah, like all your, all yourplugs for your.
I know you said you're off ofsocial now, but maybe a website
or something.
John (01:05:04):
Yeah, my website is johnnergycom and I'm also on
Instagram at Johnnergy Healingand on YouTube Johnnergy Healing
, and really try, if you'recurious about it.
Come to Insight Timer it's free.
It's a free wellness app.
I teach there, sometimes two tofive days a week and I do a lot
(01:05:25):
of trauma work.
I have two courses that werejust released on Inside Timer.
In October I actually merged myenergy healing practice with
the mother and father wound, soI merged those two modalities
together and I created twocourses on that, and that's part
(01:05:46):
of the Inside Timer premiumsubscription, which is only $60
a year.
You get access to thousands ofcourses and people are really
have gotten amazing responses tothe course and I do a lot of
that work, that trauma work, inmy Inside Timer Live.
So if you're curious about that, check out Inside Timer.
(01:06:10):
Come and, you know, come to oneof my lives.
Lauren (01:06:14):
Awesome, fantastic.
Frank (01:06:16):
John, you're a lovely person.
Thank you so much for your helptoday.
John (01:06:19):
Thank you so much for having me and reaching out.
Thank you very much.
Thank you so much, lovelyperson.
Thank you so much for your helptoday.
Thank you so much for having meand reaching out.
Thank you very much.
Lauren (01:06:23):
Thank you so much, John.
We'll talk to you soon.
Frank (01:06:32):
Thank you for listening.
Visit wwwclairvoyagingcom forshow notes merch, or just to say
hi for show notes merch, orjust to say hi If you'd like to
support our journey.
Visit wwwbuymeacoffeecom.
Backslash clairvoyaging.
This has been a production ofWayfeather Media.
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