March 20, 2025 • 54 mins
Ever trusted someone who claimed special spiritual insight, only to find yourself feeling manipulated, diminished, or confused afterward? You're not alone. In this personal episode, Lauren and Frank share lessons learned in the raw aftermath of an interview gone wrong with a self-proclaimed psychic business coach who crossed ethical boundaries and targeted their deepest insecurities.
What began as a conversation about bringing spirituality into business quickly devolved into an uncomfortable reading that left both hosts questioning themselves. The experience became a powerful catalyst for developing clear spiritual discernment—the ability to distinguish between authentic guidance and predatory tactics.
From this difficult experience emerged the Clairvoyaging tenets: sovereignty over obedience, empowerment over dependency, do no harm, and take no shit (with the unofficial fifth tenet: "suck a bag of trash"). These principles serve as guardrails for maintaining personal power while remaining open to spiritual growth and connection.
Whether you're navigating psychic readings, spiritual teachers, or self-proclaimed gurus, this episode offers practical wisdom for trusting your intuition and protecting your energy without closing yourself to genuine spiritual expansion. Have you learned to trust your "sacral no" when something feels off? Your journey of discernment and spiritual sovereignty starts here.
Clairvoyaging is now a fiscally sponsored project of Fractured Atlas, a 501(c)(3) charity, so any donations are now tax deductible. If you’d like to support our projects that aim to foster understanding for diverse spiritual belief systems, visit www.clairvoyaging.com/support.
-- DONATE to the Clairvoyaging Documentary (it's tax-deductible!)
-- SUBSCRIBE in your preferred podcast app!
-- Follow @clairvoyagingpodcast on Instagram.
-- Send us an email: clairvoyagingpodcast@gmail.com
-- Become a Clairvoyager on Patreon and get access to exclusive extras!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lauren (00:02):
Welcome, voyagers.
In this episode, frank and Iare chatting about recent
lessons we learned aroundspiritual discernment, our
show's tenets, our upcomingdocumentary and listening to
your sacral know.
I'm Lauren Leon.
Frank (00:15):
And I'm signing up to CrossFit.
Lauren (00:18):
We are a married couple learning how to develop our own
intuition, and this is episode66 of Claire Voyaging.
Wayfeather Media presentsClaire Voyaging.
Frank (00:46):
word oh word to your mother I hit the button at the
wrong time and it cut off, butlet's go with it, is it?
Gonna just sound like yeah it'sgonna sound like a herd I
filled it in for you.
Lauren (00:57):
It's thanks, hi pals hey guys hey, frank, we, we got a
lot.
Frank (01:05):
We got some new updates you have been giving me little
tidbits here and there for theweek and it's been quite fun you
know what?
Lauren (01:13):
we got some new patreon members my buttons are ready
jennica keep going, keep going,keep going, christine hannah,
georgia.
What oh?
Frank (01:32):
welcome friends guys holy cow are you for serious?
Lauren (01:36):
yeah, what a nice time I know it's a it's great welcome
to the party, friends.
Yeah uh, you guys welcome.
Also, we have a few listenerepisodes coming out soon on
patreon.
We have so much fun talking toour listeners about their
spiritual awakenings and theirgifts.
Opening up their journeys areincredible.
(01:57):
Our listener stories are justamazing you guys are amazing.
Frank (02:01):
When I was, when we were first like, oh, let's do
listener stories, I was like, oh, we'll probably get some like
pretty basic stuff.
There's not been one basicthing.
No, not not to dissuade we, thebasics out there, from coming
and talking to us.
Lauren (02:13):
You know it's funny.
Everyone assumes that theirstory is basic, Everyone has
assumed that their story is.
I want to say I'm going toshout out Seth because his
episode is coming out soon, andhe was like I don't know.
You know, maybe it's not thatinteresting and it was the guy
has an incredible story, soworthy of its own full episode.
Yeah, so, anyway, if you wantaccess to all of the goods, it's
(02:38):
just $4 a month to join.
And this is the part where Irepeat that it's $4 per month
and Frank says that's so cheap,so um, also, we got some coffees
from natalie.
Coffees from natalie, thank you.
Frank (02:54):
What's all the support about what's happening?
Lauren (02:58):
we've also gotten some like really nice comments on
spotify, comments on spotify.
Frank (03:02):
Guys, gosh, you're really making us feel special like
text messages and I wantedComments on Spotify.
Comments on Spotify.
Guys Gosh, you're really makingus feel special, like text
messages.
Lauren (03:09):
I want to just remind you that we have this feature on
our platforms.
It says send us a text which wereceive.
We get it we receive and itsays you got fan mail.
Frank (03:24):
Yeah.
Lauren (03:24):
And for some reason there's just not an option for
us to reply.
Frank (03:27):
It's a one way radio.
Lauren (03:29):
You don't know who it's from.
It just says your city.
And you know I don't want totake away that option because I
think it's really cool, it's fun.
I just want to say you're notgoing to get a reply.
You're not going to get a reply, unfortunately, because there's
no option to do that.
Frank (03:44):
Yeah, so if you've sent us a text, we don't hate you.
We're not ghosting you.
I just don't know.
I don't know what to do.
Lauren (03:49):
If you wrote us a text message, thank you, and we love
you and we see it.
Frank (03:55):
And we see you we see you .
Lauren (03:58):
Okay, guys, I have a big announcement.
We not me.
I have a big announcement, notme.
We Go ahead and take the credit.
We have a big announcement.
Are you ready?
We now have a fundraisingcampaign going for our
documentary.
Frank (04:14):
Up and running.
Lauren (04:15):
And it comes with rewards.
Frank (04:17):
Oh yeah, I forgot about that, yeah.
Lauren (04:20):
We're raising funds so that we can start working with
the incredible Sarah Reeves andher team at Metaphysical U in
Austin, texas.
By the way, if you haven'theard our episode with Sarah, go
listen to episode 12.
Our fundraising goal iscurrently $15,000 so that we can
pay crew cover travel equipmentfees etc.
Frank (04:40):
Yes, that's not so cheap.
Wait, can I say something, etcyes, that's not so cheap.
Lauren (04:48):
It's not, but that's why we we.
We got a fundraise.
Frank (04:53):
It's worth it and honestly, this is a smaller
budget than what we've workedwith in the past, so I think
we're doing okay here, yeah yeah, and also because we are
sponsored by a 501c3 calledFractured Atlas.
Lauren (05:04):
any donation is tax deductible and the rewards start
at just $10.
You know, I'd like to.
That is so cheap.
Frank (05:13):
That's a little bit more expensive than a Patreon, but
still cheap.
I want to give a shout out toour friend, adrian for telling
us about Fractured Atlas,because that's a really cool
thing, thank you, Adrian yeah.
Adrian was the person wetraveled around Duluth with.
I don't remember what episodethat was.
Lauren (05:31):
But it was our spooky Halloween episode.
So if you look up Halloweenspecial, if you heard that one,
adrian is our kind of co-host,she's our, she's our adventurer
in that, in that episode.
Frank (05:42):
Yeah.
Lauren (05:42):
We want to have her back on to just have a chat, have a
spiritual chat.
Frank (05:45):
Yeah.
Lauren (05:46):
Because she is amazing.
So the link for our fundraisingcampaign will be in the show
notes, but you can also headover to clearvoyagingcom, slash
support and click that top linkto donate to our documentary and
see more about it.
Frank (06:03):
No presh.
Lauren (06:03):
Donate to our documentary and see more about
it.
No presh Also.
We already got a few donationsbecause I announced it through
threads and on our Patreon.
Frank (06:11):
We did.
Lauren (06:12):
We did so.
Thank you to Wish Wish Wish,our first supporter, and also to
Anonymous.
Frank (06:23):
Thanks, anonymous, thanks Anonymous.
Wow, everyone's probably sosick of me screaming oh my god,
I might have to cut some of thatout.
Lauren (06:34):
This is a really hyped up intro.
Frank (06:36):
Yeah.
Lauren (06:36):
You know what that's okay.
Frank (06:37):
Sure.
Lauren (06:38):
Okay, those are all the updates.
It was a lot.
Thank you for sticking with mewhile I told you all of these
things and thanked all of ourpals.
Frank (06:48):
And thanks to me for being maybe the best one-man
peanut gallery.
Lauren (06:51):
You're quite the hype man, yikes.
Okay, frank, let's talk aboutit for a second.
Frank (07:04):
Here.
Hold on to this selenite towerfor a moment.
Lauren (07:07):
Before the episode, Frank grabbed a selenite crystal
just to clear your energy.
Frank (07:13):
We've been told selenite is the vacuum filter of emotions
.
Lauren (07:18):
So if you heard our last episode, episode 65, which was
when a psychic reading doesn'tresonate, then you'll know what
we're referring to.
If you didn't listen to that,it's just a 10 minute episode.
It kind of gets you caught up alittle bit without actually
hearing the interview because,that's going into the trash can.
(07:39):
Yeah, so we had a lot ofdiscussion.
So we had a lot of discussion.
Essentially, what happened waswe had a guest who is a sort of
a spiritual business coach andit was a big lesson.
My initial I was following thisperson and I went to their
(08:00):
videos and their posts and Ikind of went back and forth on
like, would this person be agood guest?
Something told me no.
So this is a huge lesson infollowing my intuition and
listening.
The first time when I hear thatsacral no and the sacral no is
(08:20):
something that we learnedthrough human design but that
something in your gut that saysthis isn't the right thing and
something popped up that told me, oh, maybe it would be good,
maybe we'd learn something aboutmoney, mindset or manifesting
or something.
But ultimately it ended upbeing an interview that made us
(08:41):
afterwards feel reallyuncomfortable, really, really
pissed off.
Frank made me it like activatedall of our shadows.
So, uh, this was a huge.
Frank (08:58):
This was a huge lesson let me say, and that was so the
lesson is not just a sacral, no,but also in.
You know, we've always talkedabout on the show psychics who
don't necessarily have your bestintentions in mind, right, and
how to spot them and recognizethem.
And then here we are, having awhole show about that and kind
(09:19):
of falling victim to that.
Very charismatic people existand that's something to keep in
mind.
They can also be psychic.
I'm yeah and and you know ifyou've heard the last episode
sorry for going over this again,but I'm pretty sure that what
happened was that our likeshadow selves, which for a
(09:39):
minute maybe, we talk about theshadow and but our, our, our
shadow selves were red and thenused against us right, um,
particularly like in uh,lauren's inner child was brought
up and then my sense of valueand how it's, this entire last
(10:00):
year, year and a half, has beentied to my sense of how I tie my
personal value to my earning,what I earn, or like my work or
whatever it's it's it's oldshadow stuff.
But then basically it wasaffirmed to me that, oh yeah,
you should do that and you, youare not living into your, your
(10:21):
what you should be doing in yourlife, and that is weaponizing
that shit.
And for me in particular, afterwe had a couple of rough days,
what it's allowed me to do, onceI got over the hump of like, oh
my god, someone confirmed thatthe worst part of me really is
(10:42):
the worst part of me and thatI'm living wrong what it's made
me do is kind of double down onbetting on myself in in a very
specific way, and we'll get intothat later yeah, really quick,
I just want to give oh sorry anoutline of just what happened.
Lauren (10:57):
We brought this person on our show.
We had a lot of just kind ofbasic back and forth questions
how do you bring spiritualityinto growing wealth?
How do you bring that into aboardroom or dealing with CEOs,
how do you keep you know, how doyou use your intuition, that
kind of thing.
And this person was like well,also, I'm psychic.
(11:18):
So I just, you know, read theperson and and I cut through the
BS and all this stuff.
Did you know that they werepsychic before I cut through the
bs and all this stuff?
Frank (11:24):
so did you know?
Did you know that they werepsychic before they came on the
show?
No yeah, we were just talkinglike an empowerment person as
far as we knew I knew.
Lauren (11:31):
I knew there was like a blend of intuition and like
spirituality yeah but but notlike there's no claim to I'm
psychic on their, any of theirplatforms, okay, so then that
was the first like half an hour.
And then at some point I said,okay, what you know, how would
(11:54):
you give advice to someone witha limiting mindset, or something
like that?
Just kind of making a general,and Frank was like no, I get
personal, you know, make itabout, make it about you.
Kind of making it general, andFrank was like no, I get
personal, you know, make itabout, make it about you.
And I'm like okay, I have thisidea to create a workshop.
And I know that I'm feelingmyself become a little bit
(12:15):
smaller when I say that becauseI have a little debt, I struggle
with self-doubt.
And the immediate response wasokay, well, let me ask you this
what happens to your marriagewhen you step into who you truly
want to be?
And I was like just what, whatI wasn't asking about, what do
you mean?
Frank (12:33):
I was.
I was staring at theinterviewee just like, okay,
where's this going?
Yeah, where's this going yeah.
Lauren (12:39):
So when you're in this kind of position to be like how
we are, we're open, we'revulnerable, we're willing to
take advice and be flexible inlike sure, you're going to like
coach me for a second, but itjust it got like really, it got
(13:01):
really direct in the not so goodway, just really fast, where I
was like kind of sweating andwell, I sweat every interview
and then they said, like whathappens?
(13:26):
You know what is the little girlin you most afraid of?
That will happen with anybodythat you love and, of course,
like I don't think my husband'sgonna leave me.
But if you say, like what's thelittle girl in you the most
afraid of?
That is always going to bebeing left or being abandoned
abandonment yeah that is.
That is the thing that I'm like.
Are you talking to, like thethree-year-old in me?
Frank (13:40):
so literally in like the blink of an eye.
It went from how should I thinkabout my uh upcoming coaching
uh project to your husband'sgonna leave you, and our heads
were spinning a little bit yeahand you know so what.
What lauren is like talkingabout right now is, in
particular, because of thenature of the show, we're always
putting ourselves in a positionof learning right.
(14:02):
So we are allowing ourinterviewees to, like you know,
tell us how it is, to a certainextent at least, from their
perspective yeah we have, we, welike doing that because we are
supposed to be here gatheringinformation, right, but we
haven't run into somebody who,who would take into that, who
would take the advantage of that, that dynamic yeah, just to use
an example or like a comparison, michelle Hollingbrooks was an
(14:28):
incredible guest.
Lauren (14:28):
If you haven't heard part one and two of her
interview, she's incredible.
Frank (14:33):
I don't even want to incur her name in this episode,
because she's a saint, saintMichelle.
Lauren (14:39):
Truly and like we.
I mean she did a healing, justa healing example, with us and
she had me invite my inner childin front of me and imagine
asking her to come join us inour family room and be with our
family and be treated the waythat, like she wants to be
(15:03):
nurtured and all that stuff.
So I was crying during thatgood but.
But there's a challenge cry yes, like oh, yeah, I need to face
this cry, and then there's upsetcry yeah, then there's like I
wasn't asking.
I was asking about doing aworkshop, not about like if my
husband's gonna like up andleave me, so really kind of just
(15:25):
using that to their advantageand then focusing and honing in
on Frank and how he needs tostep into his masculine energy
and this was one of thoseinterviews One of those we
haven't had one yet where Iliterally couldn't say anything
right.
Frank (15:44):
Every time I said something or defended my
standpoint and said I don't knowif I like that in my own words,
without being confrontational,it was like I was immediately
shit on.
Yeah, it was so weird.
Lauren (15:54):
Yeah.
Frank (15:55):
It was so weird because it was such a.
It was such a weird confusingmix of some good advice and then
like, like slamming me and.
And then like, like slamming meand and then telling Lauren she
needs to stop being so likeminimizing herself, but at the
same time, in kind of anaggressive way, that didn't feel
good.
Lauren (16:12):
Yeah.
Frank (16:12):
And like it it it didn't.
I knew that during theinterview.
As soon as we got off theinterview, I said I hated that.
Lauren (16:21):
Literally Frank Frank's words were I hated that, that
and I said I'm sure yeah andthen, uh, you know, you just had
to sit with that for a fewminutes and be like how much of
that was true so you know not toharp on this anymore, but
really the takeaway was a biglesson in trusting trusting our
(16:44):
instincts, our intuition, andnot letting and acknowledging
our shadows when they pop up,but saying like those aren't in
control of me or those aren'tnecessarily who I am now or
really, what was being presentedto us is that our shadows are
(17:09):
our true selves and that we arenot in control of them
whatsoever.
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Frank (17:14):
And that's like a horrible thing to be told.
Lauren (17:17):
Yeah, someone who claims to be psychic, telling you that
they know better and usingtheir underdeveloped ability to
(17:38):
kind of get a little bit ofcontrol over you, or or
basically, say, oh yeah, well,now you should, I should coach
you.
Frank (17:40):
And let's be clear about what we mean by underdeveloped.
We don't mean not a goodpsychic, very psychic, very
intuitive, hitting on good.
What we mean by underdevelopedwe don't mean not a good psychic
, very psychic, very intuitive,hitting on good things.
When we say underdeveloped,what we mean is that bedside and
those ethics and how much ofyour own personal ego is brought
into that reading, and it wasclear that it was a ego-first
reading.
Lauren (17:59):
Yeah.
Frank (17:59):
That person brought their worldview into this space and
want to know what's crazy aboutit.
I'm gonna say something rightnow.
What?
And it's not that controversial, especially these days?
But billionaires should notexist.
So this person is in our, is inmy church and telling me that
they are trying to encouragemillionaires, that they could be
(18:22):
billionaires, but they havelimiting mindsets yeah and like
how about if you just go suck abag of trash for me?
Okay?
Lauren (18:31):
like no, that should have been our first and yeah and
like, like, like shaking overhere, probably just from the,
just from the comment of moremoney and someone making,
someone making billions, andhe's like, yeah, but we're
(18:52):
creating a caste system now andyeah, and I was brought
shouldn't people not have thatmuch money?
Because it's a problem it?
Frank (19:00):
was brought up, they used that against me, saying like,
oh, you have an issue with money, and I used to hate money.
People had money too.
I'm like no, no, and when youknow AOC said it best recently
billions are not earned, they'retaken, and I firmly believe
(19:31):
that to be true.
Lauren (19:32):
Yeah.
Frank (19:32):
So yeah and and sorry if we're getting too political for
you, but, um, legitimately, it'sthe mindset around that
predatory capitalism and ifyou're in the boardroom these
days with people who admirepeople in even larger boardrooms
, like the expectation forpredatory capitalism, is built
into your, your, yourorganization, um, I mean, I
(19:55):
can't speak for everybody.
I'm sure there's something.
Ben and jerry's pretty great,but you know, like, like, if
you're, if you're wanting moremoney and you already have a lot
of money, like you've got aproblem, dude.
Like you want to talk aboutshadows.
If you're wanting more moneyand you already have a lot of
money, you've got a problem,dude.
You want to talk about shadows.
If you're a CEO and you thinkyou need more money after your
multi-millions, you need to slowdown.
You have messed up.
(20:15):
It's not about that.
So to claim yourself to be likea spiritual guru in the
boardrooms, telling people thatthey do need more money is
absolutely unhinged, to be clearit's, you know, it's just not.
Lauren (20:32):
It's not really the kind of thing that we, that we
uplift on this show.
I mean and you know, and if youdo, like that, then then then
great, it's just like we have.
We wanted something that alignswith our values and yeah, I
want to give lauren.
Frank (20:48):
This is one of the situations where I want to make
sure there is a division betweenlauren and I.
These are the views of myself.
I don't like predatorycapitalism, and neither does
lauren, but I'm the one that's alittle more ragey about it, and
that's fine.
Yeah, okay yeah I don't, Idon't want to drag you into my
(21:09):
rage no, I'm ragey about it too.
Lauren (21:11):
All right, you're just louder about it.
Frank (21:15):
I get loud when it comes to the stuff.
Lauren (21:16):
Yeah that's okay it's fine, um, I was going to say one
more thing, oh, and I just wantto bring up the point that,
like, when I say underdeveloped,I'm talking about someone who
most likely didn't take classeson like psychic development,
(21:37):
intuitive development andlearning those really basic
things about ethics.
Frank (21:43):
We did the clairvoyaging thing.
We said how'd you get started?
And yeah, there was no mentionof that at all no it was.
I've always been this way yeahand like scary okay.
Lauren (21:54):
So, yeah, real quick.
You know, I had to deal withlike my guilt of of.
I think I have that rejection.
Sensitivity, dysphoria orwhatever it's called.
It's kind of can go hand inhand with adhd and I think um
the idea of being wrong or doingthe wrong thing.
(22:14):
I I'm so afraid of rejectionthat I just tried to make it all
okay.
I don't want to be responsible,I'm responsible for this guest.
And then, ultimately, how thisguest made you feel and how this
guest brought us in like thisfriction, like turmoil.
(22:38):
Do you actually feel this way?
Because the psychic told methat you feel this way?
That's just final for me.
Final lesson intuition.
You can just just just stepinto your mistake and it's okay.
Frank (22:52):
But we're never here.
So here's the thing now, andthis is where this is the.
The guts of what I want to talkabout on this episode is that
we're not going to be able tofilter everybody in the world,
and I'm not talking about likeon the show, I mean like in real
life.
Right, and this is for thelisteners too.
We're going to run into peoplewho are going to try and sell
(23:16):
you the psychic version of atimeshare, and if you are
susceptible to that, like Lordand I, have once purchased a
timeshare and then immediatelytook it back.
Lauren (23:23):
We had to send a letter via fax to say we rescind.
Frank (23:30):
We looked at each other and said what have we done?
We're too emotion based, if youown a timeshare and you love it
, then you're doing it correctly.
But afterwards we were likewait, whoa, this is not.
No, what are we doing?
How did this happen?
I think we can get sold.
Yeah, I'm concerned about ourability to be sold.
Lauren (23:48):
I heard other people popping champagne.
I was like it's time for us tocelebrate.
Frank (23:55):
Frank, I really want them to pop the champagne for us.
Lauren (23:57):
We got to my mom's house and she's like you did what.
You did not buy the timeshare.
Frank (24:04):
So listen, listen, it's not about.
It's not about stupidity, it'sabout putting yourself in the,
not even putting yourself in thesituations.
It's not your fault, it's notour fault, but it really did
make lauren and I realized thatin those moments we don't have a
lot of emotional tools,especially in this environment
where we're talking to a psychicright, someone that that we
(24:26):
have, a we have a 65 episodehistory of trusting, yeah,
people with with deep intuition.
It puts us in a situation weare very vulnerable to what
we're told.
So.
So what do we do if we findourselves in that situation
again?
What tools do we have toidentify when we are being effed
with?
Lauren (24:47):
Your recommendation to me, which was really helpful,
was to create my personal set ofprinciples or standards, or
what you call tenets, to remindmyself of who I am and who I'm
not.
Frank (25:06):
Yeah, If you are like a person like we are, who you know
is very open-minded and willingto hear things out, is
sometimes having to switch overto be in a defensive mode is
uncomfortable and it feelsconfrontational and sometimes
sometimes I let it, I get tooemotional or I feel too terrible
.
Before I turn that switch,before I flip that switch into
(25:27):
like defense mode, and writingsome things out, some principles
or some tenets, or you can callthem non-negotiables, is a
really good way to give yourselfthat trigger.
Like oh, there's been aviolation.
I don't feel terrible yet, butthere's been a clear violation.
Like, let's, let's strike onekind of thing yeah and then it's
(25:48):
like, okay, I might, you mightknow who you're dealing with.
I created a set of tenets ornon-negotiables for claire
voyaging as an entity that weare going to be following moving
forward, and I'll go over themin a little bit, but I did want
to mention one thing.
Um, cause we've talked aboutlike shadow self and all that
(26:08):
stuff.
Lauren (26:08):
Yeah.
Frank (26:09):
And, if I know, we've mentioned it in the past, but I
did a little bit of researchjust so I can talk about it more
clearly and I want to mentionwhat that is.
You know, in in your life, whenyou're growing up or going
through your you know, um, uh,formative years, there are times
when either your environment oryour own psyche makes it so
that this is all.
This is a Jungian concept, Ibelieve he coined shadow your,
(26:36):
your environment, or your oryour psyche, your own psyche has
pushed certain aspects orelements of yourself into your
subconscious.
I'm going to screw this up, butit's fine, just hear me out,
you're doing a great job.
Simple version.
So what it is is you have theseelements that you're trying to
repress right Of yourself, whenreally you're supposed to
(26:57):
acknowledge those things thatyou've been told aren't right or
that you've told yourselfaren't right, and then accept
them to a certain extent andreintegrate them in a way that
is not, that is non-destructive,right?
So, for example, um, you couldsay so, I I for a long time was
like, oh, like I'll never getanywhere with creativity, even
though I saw the opposite allaround me.
(27:18):
People were getting places, likebeing in the arts and stuff,
right and and like earning aliving, but for some reason I
told myself that that's not,that's not going to work for me,
right?
So I put that on the backburner and I was living a
duality.
I was living a dual lifestylewhere I had a very corporate job
that I hated during the day, asyou all freaking know I have
(27:40):
said this way too much and thenat night I was an artist by
night, and I would let my freakflag fly Right.
And at some point, at somepoint in the last few years,
that became too hard to manageand it was because literally I
was doing, I was working on myshadow self artistry in the
shadows, like at nighttime, likeafter hours, right?
Lauren (28:02):
So wait?
Is the shadow in this case,your belief that you'll never do
anything bigger with yourcreativity.
Frank (28:14):
It would have been the belief, saying that this will
never get, this will neverprovide me with anything that I
or like that fear of steppingout into that version of
yourself.
Whatever I suppressed.
So what I suppressed was thebelief that I could ever make
money doing art.
Lauren (28:31):
Right, okay.
So, that's considered a shadow.
Well yeah, sure, okay.
Frank (28:36):
Yeah, I made a belief system.
What I did was I suppressed mytrue, authentic self, which is
as an artist.
Lauren (28:43):
Right.
Frank (28:44):
And I took on the mantle of.
I have a corporate job, I am acorporate worker, I'm a cog in
the machine I have.
I have yeah.
What are the cubicles?
Lauren (28:54):
What are those called?
Frank (28:55):
Yeah, cubicles, I let it go so and that becomes a lot
right, and?
And the concept of the, thelike shadow work is that you are
working to reintegrate, right.
So in my case now I'm like,well, hold on, if I all the the
hard work and all the like workethic and stuff that I brought
into just trying to make my fakemantle of a corporate worker
(29:18):
work for me, like I can take allthose lessons and and bring it
back to my suppressed artistself and pull that up again and
let reintegrate Right and I canbe excited about it Like I am
now.
Here we are, I'm excited, Ilove it hey, yeah.
And not to say it's an easytransition or anything, but
that's what the concept is.
(29:39):
So if you have somebody who'stapped into your those repressed
parts of you, things thatpeople told you you can't be or
can't do, or those worst fearsof you that you've also
repressed and you're denying, Ideny that right, even though it
(30:00):
might be like a little bit trueor there might be some truth to
it, or maybe it was true 10, 20years ago, whatever that might
be.
So if someone could see thatyour worst sense of yourself and
then use, use it against you,literally weaponize your own
shadow against you, oof, that isa, that is a.
That is a slithery snake, thatis a toxic individual yeah, I, I
want to.
Lauren (30:17):
I want to say too, because we're talking about the
shadow, um, the it's.
I don't think it's acoincidence that this interview
that we had, that brought up allof our shit, came during
eclipse season, like I mean highemotions, full moon, all that
(30:41):
stuff which I don't know why Idon't have the scientific.
I don't think I don't know whatthe scientific explanation is
for eclipses bringing up all ofyour shadow self and your
traumas and dealing with yourfears and all this stuff.
Frank (30:57):
But I don't know.
Lauren (30:59):
It's just interesting that this came at that exact
week.
Frank (31:03):
It is.
I mean, we've been flippingthrough tiktok and everyone's
like, oh yeah, it's, it's, it'sretrograde and oh yeah,
retrograde and eclipse season,and like we're going to be
working with your shadows andthings are going to come up and
you're going to feeluncomfortable I made a joke
video on tiktok about it, butit's true it is true, it's very.
I mean whatever, regardless ofif you subscribe to that stuff
(31:24):
or not yeah it happened.
It happened here, yeah, which is, you know, it's funny.
It's funny if you want like avery quick, loose scientific
explanation for like why, like,the lunar shit affects you.
I I did see someone today whowas like, who said, um, she was
like our bodies are made of like80% water.
Right, you see what the balloon, the moon, does to the tides,
(31:47):
right, why would you not havethings come up to?
So I wanted to talk aboutdiscernment, like I was saying
earlier, like when you're in asituation like this where you
are open-minded but you likedon't have any evidence you know
we're talking about spiritualstuff and like being open to
this stuff, right, like we'renot always asking for direct
(32:09):
evidence, but what are you beingtaken advantage of?
And side note, another thingthat happened this weekend,
which is very funny.
I don't know how active youguys are on tiktok, but like the
um yeah like alien disclosurestuff is just going off right.
Everyone's been talking aboutthe like uh uips and drones and
all that stuff lately, but therewas a certain individual I
(32:30):
won't name names, I don't thinkit's her fault but there was a
certain individual flying aroundtiktok who was saying that this
weekend was the big weekendwhere where the like galactic
people federation I don't knowif it was the federation.
I don't know what I think shedid say federation, okay, well,
galactic people Federation.
Lauren (32:45):
I don't know if it was the Federation.
I don't know what I think shedid say.
Frank (32:46):
Federation.
Okay, well, galactic folks weregoing to be showing themselves
literally as she was saying Viamotherships Via motherships the
size of cities, visible toeveryone, not just people, like
in tune with it.
And yeah so, lauren, what'd youthink when the aliens showed up
?
That was pretty cool, right.
Um, yeah so, lauren, what'd youthink when the aliens showed up
?
Lauren (33:06):
that was pretty cool.
Right frank has gotten reallyinto this side of of tiktok and
the side of I think fascinatedis.
Fascinated is the correct termwe, I can't you know, you guys,
we did go outside and lookaround and we looked at the sky
(33:26):
each night and we said what thehell we looked up and we said
hey, nothing's happening.
You said you were coming solet's talk about.
I want to talk about discernmentfor a quick second, all right
frank's like okay if nothinghappens this weekend, which I'm
(33:46):
sure it probably won't, but whennothing happens this weekend
I'm gonna go on an unfollowquest oh yeah, it's already it's
begun.
Yes, the unfollowing has begun.
Frank (33:59):
Yeah, now it's too much sometimes well, all I wanted to
say was that also the personthat said that the motherships
were coming, she did.
She was like.
She was like.
What did she say?
She said that there was not anymiscommunication, but that
there were.
Someone changed their mind andthat she's also susceptible to
(34:23):
how the aliens will sometimeslie for certain purposes.
And the thing I said to Laurenwas wait a minute.
We're asking for help frompeople who lie, and what
happened to like best and whatyour highest good.
Highest and best or whateverright.
What happened to?
(34:44):
Like you're going to lie to mejust for a joke.
So I was like highest, good,highest and best, or whatever
Right.
Well, having a light, oh,you're gonna lie to me just for
a joke.
So I was like, oh man thosealiens are tricksters, so my
whole thing was this Likethere's a chance that, like you
know that that's all real, butat what point are we just
putting our blind faith intosome, like you know, something
that we have no evidential proofof?
(35:04):
And I don't want us, especiallyon the show, in any kind of way
to recreate any kind of.
A large part of the show isgetting away from traditional
religious ideologies.
Which traditional religiousideologies put something between
you and your ability to expandyour own faith Right?
Lauren (35:25):
Yeah.
Frank (35:27):
You need a church, you need a priest and, in this case,
what I need a channeler likewhy tell me what the aliens are
saying?
And the aliens know best.
Why is there always someone inthe middle?
Lauren (35:37):
Yeah.
Frank (35:37):
So let's.
This is discernment.
This is where discernment comesin and like really this, where
discernment comes in and andlike really this is based on if
you're in, if we find ourselvesin a situation where we are
being too open.
I'd love to hear stories.
I want to hear more abouteveryone's religious faiths and
their, their spirituality.
I don't necessarily need tosubscribe to it, but where do we
(35:58):
come in as individuals?
I'm talking about lauren and Ias hosts and you as listeners,
and this is when I came up withthe clairvoyaging tenants that
are non negotiables for how weare moving forward, and I'd like
to read them real quick to you.
Lauren (36:11):
Yeah, and love to hear it.
Frank (36:13):
Lauren, I'm going to read what I wrote, and then I'm
probably gonna put these on ourwebsite too.
Lauren (36:18):
Great.
Frank (36:19):
And then I'd like you to comment.
Lauren (36:21):
Okay.
Frank (36:21):
Or we can discuss some talking points, comment, okay,
or we can discuss some talkingpoints, right, okay, please,
please, tell me, tell, tell us.
So.
The first, the first tenet issovereignty over obedience, and
what I mean by that is do notlet anybody tell you who you are
.
You are the master of your ownjourney yeah, um and this
(36:47):
obviously plays back comes backto, like, our interview we had
to throw away, right, someonewas telling us, yeah, who we
were, and claimed to know usbetter than we knew ourselves.
Even if someone does have theability to read into your the
worst, darkest version ofyourself, right, right, you
still have free will.
If you don't want that, youdon't have to be it in any kind
(37:10):
of way.
Lauren (37:11):
Yeah, you know, speaking of sovereignty and that
interview, the most empoweringthing was realizing the choice
that we could make, which waswe're not publishing that, and
the minute that we could make,which was we're not publishing
that, and the minute that wasthe option.
It was the clearest option andit was also the most freeing
(37:32):
because it reminded me this isour show, like you know, there
is something really empoweringabout what are our values.
It doesn't include this, sothis is not going to be included
.
And I'm such a people pleaserthat my, my fear was like, oh,
they're gonna be upset orthey're maybe ask us at some
(37:56):
point, like what happened tothat episode?
Sorry, it didn't fit, it didn'talign with our principles or or
the messaging that we're tryingto have with our show yeah,
well, we didn't have ourprinciples laid out yet, because
we've been yeah, we have.
We had a loose idea of like,does this feel right or not?
Frank (38:14):
right, yeah, of course, yeah, yeah, but now, in the
moment, we'll know yeah numbertwo number two number.
Empowerment over dependencyVery similar but a little
different, and that reads asfollows Spiritual wisdom comes
from within.
Find the right balance betweenexternal validation and
(38:36):
self-reliance.
Lauren (38:37):
Yeah.
Frank (38:38):
We don't want to be in a situation where we constantly
need affirmation of our owntruths but at the same time we
do like some validation, and yougotta choose whatever works for
you.
But if you find yourselfrelinquishing your own
self-reliance in terms of likeyou need someone else to
(39:01):
externally validate what you aregoing through, then you're
probably not doing it, right,right it's true.
Lauren (39:08):
there is a point where I mean as spiritual people you,
you, our listeners are mostlikely on a spiritual journey
yourselves and, depending onwhere you are, you might not
necessarily need to go topsychic or medium readings, and
(39:30):
that's not to say like don't doit anymore.
However, you might not feelthat pull because so much of the
intuition is already within youand the answers are already
within you.
I know that there comes a pointwhere it's like when you're
kind of just floundering andyou're like I really want
someone to tell me how I feel,or validate how I feel, or read
(39:50):
me, because I don't know what'sgoing on.
Then, once you start doingthose deep dives, you don't
require that as much.
Like maybe there's like youknow you're using divination or
you're kind of like you're usingmeditation or whatever.
That's all seeking validationfrom yourself, your higher self
(40:16):
or your spirit guides.
Does that make sense?
Frank (40:20):
Kind of.
But even if you were like, evenif you're completely leaning on
div because you can abusedivination right.
Lauren (40:26):
Yeah.
Frank (40:26):
You've got to find the balance.
So I pull tarot cards all thetime, as you know, because I
pull them for you too.
But what the tarot card does isit leads to a deep discussion.
I'm not literally reading thetarot descriptions and saying,
oh okay, cool, and then basingmy life off of that and saying,
oh okay, cool, and then basingmy life off of that.
It's like a.
(40:47):
Kickstarter to a conversationthat leads to something that I
may be not addressing orsomething that I hadn't thought
of, and it is always amazing aslong as you bring your own
intuitive knowledge into it, andthat's where but if someone is
just straight up telling you howit is, then you are in for a
world of hurt.
Lauren (41:05):
And you're depending on what they say as opposed to what
you feel.
Frank (41:11):
Yeah, maybe we caught the last interviewee on a bad day,
but if that was a good day, thenI feel really bad for that
person's clients, because theyare in a in a like a high risk
situation where not only arethey handing over their own
personal power, they're also atrisk of being abused.
(41:35):
To be honest, yeah.
So anyway.
Lauren (41:39):
Manipulated at the very least, which brings us to number
three.
Go on.
Frank (41:42):
Do no harm.
Do no harm.
What do we mean by that?
Go on, do no harm, do no harm.
What do we mean by that?
So all of us, all of ourjourneys, look different and
deserve respect.
So when we are engaged in adiscussion about spirituality,
it's important for us to meetpeople where they are and
encourage their own growth attheir own pace, and not to tell
(42:06):
them what's right or tell themwhat's wrong, but to push them
along in a healthy, encouragingkind of way.
Right, you don't want to breakpeople down?
Yeah, so I always feel, I feelbad about this.
I might've talked about this inone of our earlier episodes,
but you know, when I was youngerand I was I personally was
trying to work my way out of theCatholic church, which is not a
(42:29):
comfortable, it's not acomfortable thing to do.
Ask anyone who's done it.
Lauren (42:33):
Yeah.
Frank (42:33):
But I was also kind of like raging against my, my
parents, because they were sosteeped in it, right, and and I
got to a point once I starteddoing my own growth and and I
wasn't I stopped projecting ontothem what I wanted.
I'm going to say that again Istopped projecting onto them
what I wanted for myself.
(42:55):
Then I was like, oh shit, likethat's how they connect, right,
yeah, it's what they'recomfortable with and it's what
brings them this deep sense ofspirituality and peace.
Who the hell am I to take thataway from them?
Yeah, regardless if I agreewith it or not not, my parents
are way I'd say.
My parents have done a lot ofwork and they're way more
(43:15):
open-minded too, but they stillhave that like foundation of the
, the faith that they grew upwith, and there's nothing wrong
with that yeah, in fact, there's, might be even some things good
with it.
But they also my parents alsodisplay discernment in where
they are, like they have.
They pick and choose what worksfor them yeah they integrate it
.
And then there are some thingsthat they've let go of.
(43:36):
The catholic church makes iteasy to let some things go
because they keep blowing it.
That's all I'll say.
But but you know, that's.
That's that discernment yeah um, and that's also like releasing
that gatekeeping that thechurch and tradition,
traditional churches can do, butalso the gatekeeping that
(43:58):
weaponized psychics can do toyou.
You need them.
No, no, any comments on thatyeah, I mean the, the.
Lauren (44:14):
We might have a listener here or there that has fallen
victim to the.
You have a curse.
I am the only person who canremove it, or I can do a
cleansing and it's only $700.
Or the people who, like I keptseeing on Reddit, there's like
(44:37):
stories of people who are like Ijust went to a psychic and they
told me that my husband isgoing to die in the next year
and there's nothing I can doabout it and like just really
damaging things, that like nowthey can't sleep at night and
all this stuff.
So that is so harmful.
Frank (44:58):
So now, obviously we will never have a guest like that,
but you know, former guest infront of the show, michael mayo,
has talked about how, like,there are certain things that
don't come through in spirit andthey're called the four d's oh
yeah, it's.
Oh man, why did I put myself ina situation where I have to
(45:20):
remember them death, destruction, divorce and donald trump?
I can't remember what thefourth one was, but like some
things are not supposed to comeas far as mediumship goes, some
things are not supposed to comethrough like that, right yeah um
, spirit's never gonna give youyour when by spirit I mean, like
your ancestors, your spiritguides they're not going to give
(45:42):
you devastating news, and also,with the future, somewhat
unwritten, that's just not,nothing's for sure yeah like
we've had psychic readings wherethey hit on things that are
true and the timing's always off.
I always talk about how the jokeof our existence is time and
how time moves.
The timing is going to be off.
Lauren (46:03):
Yeah.
Frank (46:03):
So when someone oh your husband's going to die, no shit,
Everyone dies man.
But like you're, you're tellingme, next year, suck a bag of
trash.
Lauren (46:15):
Oh no, it's a new Frank catchphrase.
That is not one that I want totake off.
I'm putting it on yourheadstone.
Oh okay, I'm fine with it.
His favorite quote suck a bagof trash and you know what I
gotta say?
Frank (46:34):
something suck a bag of trash.
Brings us to tenet number four.
Okay, the last tenet is take noshit, so do no harm.
Take no shit, so do no harm,take no shit.
You've heard the phrase.
Lauren (46:48):
Okay.
Frank (46:48):
Okay, take no shit.
Spiritual growth can presentchallenges, but it's never
aggressive.
Okay, trust your sacralresponse, the thing we were
talking about earlier, that gutfeeling that tells you whether
or not something is right foryou.
(47:08):
If someone is challenging youin a way that feels negative or
depleting depleting of your ownenergy they are projecting onto
you.
Do not accept it.
And see tenant number one,which is sovereignty over
obedience.
You know what?
Maybe number five is suck a bagof trash.
Lauren (47:28):
Yeah, that's the unofficial number five.
The show's changed man our lastguest really changed us.
Frank (47:43):
But like, legitimately, this the entire thing breaks
down to, that is that, likethere's a way to guard your
growth while also not beingsusceptible to, um, you know,
people's shitty takes, and Ithink I think lauren and I just
figured out how to, how to workthat out, and I'm hoping that if
(48:04):
you found yourself in aposition where you're also being
victimized yeah, victimized bypeople with, uh, supposed
intuitive abilities, that that's, that's how to go about it is
no, no one to cut it off and noone to say they're full of shit
yeah and growth mindset.
While being positive, I'm sayingthing, it doesn't even have to
(48:26):
be intuitive, psychic, anythinglike that.
I mean, look at we talked about.
We briefly mentioned what wasit called.
You know those like group thinkuh workshops where you're
supposed to go there and likework on yourself but then they
end up yelling at you and youfeel horrible about yourself.
Landmine, landmine, landmarklandmark yeah, stuff like that.
(48:46):
I don't know how popular that isanymore, but like I don't know,
yeah, yeah like being put intoin a position where you are
super uncomfortable and is isnot something that you have to
do to grow.
You don't have to beuncomfortable yeah like, like
publicly humiliated to grow.
You don't have to be humiliatedto grow.
(49:06):
You might be humiliated by likewhat you've thought about
yourself in the past, but itdoesn't have to be like a
shaming and, in fact, in fact,the best way to go about all of
this is without shame, causethat shame is going to like
drive you into a place you don'twant to go to, and shame
essentially creates more shadowsfor you to work through down
(49:27):
the line.
You're just kicking the rockdown the road.
Lauren (49:29):
Yeah, there were exercises that sounded like
deeply devastating and, I'm sure, healing.
But to like access your are youtalking about landmines?
Frank (49:41):
Yeah, okay.
Lauren (49:42):
Landmine to access your darkest memories in in a group
setting and maybe even be pushedto talk about them in front of
other people.
I don't think so.
That's not for me.
Frank (49:56):
No no.
Lauren (49:57):
I was like no, I'm not doing that.
Frank (49:59):
That's aggressive.
Lauren (50:00):
Yeah.
Frank (50:00):
It's ego, it's maybe someone was treated that way and
they are just like you know,hazing other people into doing
the same thing.
If you feel hazed, don't do it,okay.
So one more time.
Let me just go over them.
Just the headlines here.
Number one sovereignty overobedience.
Number two empowerment overdependency.
(50:21):
Number three do no harm.
Four take no shit.
Lauren (50:25):
And five suck a bag of trash that one's the silent, the
silent one, yeah, so dumb, uh,you know, I think these will.
These will help us recognizewhat's going on, if there's, if
(50:47):
something's going astray oh yeah, no, wouldn't.
Frank (50:51):
We're never going sideways again.
Lauren (50:52):
Yeah so I feel like that sums up our, our big lessons.
This is, you know, we like tocall these kind of episodes
milestones, and I think this,this is a pretty important
milestone for us.
Frank (51:07):
It is a milestone.
It might not be as fun as theother ones.
Lauren (51:13):
But that's part of it.
I just realized this is episodenumber 66.
Frank (51:17):
Maybe that's not an accident.
New levels, new devils.
I've said it before, I'll sayit again oh, is that a saying?
Yeah, if it's not, I've got anew t-shirt to make.
Lauren (51:30):
I'm putting number 66 as an angel number is it, it can
be can it be?
Yeah or new it new new angles,new angels?
No, yeah no, those are the sameword no new angles, new angels,
the e and the l, the dyslexicsare not big fans right now.
Frank (51:55):
Someone's gonna say new angles, new angles.
Lauren (51:57):
They must work in construction no, I'm just
keeping it high vibes, sure,okay, you guys, we love you.
Frank (52:07):
Maybe some of the stuff we've talked about is old news
to you.
You've done this, you've donethe work, but this is a new
little bit.
You'd think, after 40-somethingyears of life, that we'd be
better at handling theaggressive sales types.
Lauren (52:21):
and here we are when you're not expecting it on your
own podcast.
You're just not really readyfor it.
So now we're prepared.
Frank (52:32):
Yeah.
Lauren (52:32):
This is our house and I must defend it.
Frank (52:36):
Oh, wow Home.
Lauren (52:37):
Alone Anyone.
Frank (52:39):
Everyone.
Lauren (52:39):
It's not the season for it, but it's always.
Frank (52:41):
It's always the season for Home Alone.
Lauren (52:44):
Also, I just want to say thank you.
There were several people whoreached out after listening to
that little short episode thatwe had.
Just thank you, because it wastough.
So thank you for sayinganything that you said to us.
It was really sweet.
Frank (53:03):
Thank you for your support, guys.
We really appreciate it.
Thank you so much Love you.
Lauren (53:07):
Love you hearts and it was really sweet.
Thank you for your support,guys.
We really appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
Frank (53:11):
Love you, Love you Hearts and stars.
Peace Bye.
Thank you for listening.
Visit clairevoyagingcom formerchandise or to access free
resources to help you on yourspiritual journey.
Subscribe to our Patreon formore content or join for free to
chat with us.
Claire Voyaging is a fiscallysponsored project of Fractured
Atlas, a 501c3 charity.
Make a tax-deductible donationto support our mission to foster
(53:36):
understanding, respect andcuriosity for diverse spiritual
belief systems.
Clairvoyaging is a productionof Wayfeather Media.
Welcome, voyagers.
In this episode, frank and Iare chatting about recent
lessons we learned aroundspiritual discernment, our
show's tenets, our upcomingdocumentary and listening to
your sacral know.
I'm Lauren Leon.
Frank (00:15):
And I'm signing up to CrossFit.
Lauren (00:18):
We are a married couple learning how to develop our own
intuition, and this is episode66 of Claire Voyaging.
Wayfeather Media presentsClaire Voyaging.
Frank (00:46):
word oh word to your mother I hit the button at the
wrong time and it cut off, butlet's go with it, is it?
Gonna just sound like yeah it'sgonna sound like a herd I
filled it in for you.
Lauren (00:57):
It's thanks, hi pals hey guys hey, frank, we, we got a
lot.
Frank (01:05):
We got some new updates you have been giving me little
tidbits here and there for theweek and it's been quite fun you
know what?
Lauren (01:13):
we got some new patreon members my buttons are ready
jennica keep going, keep going,keep going, christine hannah,
georgia.
What oh?
Frank (01:32):
welcome friends guys holy cow are you for serious?
Lauren (01:36):
yeah, what a nice time I know it's a it's great welcome
to the party, friends.
Yeah uh, you guys welcome.
Also, we have a few listenerepisodes coming out soon on
patreon.
We have so much fun talking toour listeners about their
spiritual awakenings and theirgifts.
Opening up their journeys areincredible.
(01:57):
Our listener stories are justamazing you guys are amazing.
Frank (02:01):
When I was, when we were first like, oh, let's do
listener stories, I was like, oh, we'll probably get some like
pretty basic stuff.
There's not been one basicthing.
No, not not to dissuade we, thebasics out there, from coming
and talking to us.
Lauren (02:13):
You know it's funny.
Everyone assumes that theirstory is basic, Everyone has
assumed that their story is.
I want to say I'm going toshout out Seth because his
episode is coming out soon, andhe was like I don't know.
You know, maybe it's not thatinteresting and it was the guy
has an incredible story, soworthy of its own full episode.
Yeah, so, anyway, if you wantaccess to all of the goods, it's
(02:38):
just $4 a month to join.
And this is the part where Irepeat that it's $4 per month
and Frank says that's so cheap,so um, also, we got some coffees
from natalie.
Coffees from natalie, thank you.
Frank (02:54):
What's all the support about what's happening?
Lauren (02:58):
we've also gotten some like really nice comments on
spotify, comments on spotify.
Frank (03:02):
Guys, gosh, you're really making us feel special like
text messages and I wantedComments on Spotify.
Comments on Spotify.
Guys Gosh, you're really makingus feel special, like text
messages.
Lauren (03:09):
I want to just remind you that we have this feature on
our platforms.
It says send us a text which wereceive.
We get it we receive and itsays you got fan mail.
Frank (03:24):
Yeah.
Lauren (03:24):
And for some reason there's just not an option for
us to reply.
Frank (03:27):
It's a one way radio.
Lauren (03:29):
You don't know who it's from.
It just says your city.
And you know I don't want totake away that option because I
think it's really cool, it's fun.
I just want to say you're notgoing to get a reply.
You're not going to get a reply, unfortunately, because there's
no option to do that.
Frank (03:44):
Yeah, so if you've sent us a text, we don't hate you.
We're not ghosting you.
I just don't know.
I don't know what to do.
Lauren (03:49):
If you wrote us a text message, thank you, and we love
you and we see it.
Frank (03:55):
And we see you we see you .
Lauren (03:58):
Okay, guys, I have a big announcement.
We not me.
I have a big announcement, notme.
We Go ahead and take the credit.
We have a big announcement.
Are you ready?
We now have a fundraisingcampaign going for our
documentary.
Frank (04:14):
Up and running.
Lauren (04:15):
And it comes with rewards.
Frank (04:17):
Oh yeah, I forgot about that, yeah.
Lauren (04:20):
We're raising funds so that we can start working with
the incredible Sarah Reeves andher team at Metaphysical U in
Austin, texas.
By the way, if you haven'theard our episode with Sarah, go
listen to episode 12.
Our fundraising goal iscurrently $15,000 so that we can
pay crew cover travel equipmentfees etc.
Frank (04:40):
Yes, that's not so cheap.
Wait, can I say something, etcyes, that's not so cheap.
Lauren (04:48):
It's not, but that's why we we.
We got a fundraise.
Frank (04:53):
It's worth it and honestly, this is a smaller
budget than what we've workedwith in the past, so I think
we're doing okay here, yeah yeah, and also because we are
sponsored by a 501c3 calledFractured Atlas.
Lauren (05:04):
any donation is tax deductible and the rewards start
at just $10.
You know, I'd like to.
That is so cheap.
Frank (05:13):
That's a little bit more expensive than a Patreon, but
still cheap.
I want to give a shout out toour friend, adrian for telling
us about Fractured Atlas,because that's a really cool
thing, thank you, Adrian yeah.
Adrian was the person wetraveled around Duluth with.
I don't remember what episodethat was.
Lauren (05:31):
But it was our spooky Halloween episode.
So if you look up Halloweenspecial, if you heard that one,
adrian is our kind of co-host,she's our, she's our adventurer
in that, in that episode.
Frank (05:42):
Yeah.
Lauren (05:42):
We want to have her back on to just have a chat, have a
spiritual chat.
Frank (05:45):
Yeah.
Lauren (05:46):
Because she is amazing.
So the link for our fundraisingcampaign will be in the show
notes, but you can also headover to clearvoyagingcom, slash
support and click that top linkto donate to our documentary and
see more about it.
Frank (06:03):
No presh.
Lauren (06:03):
Donate to our documentary and see more about
it.
No presh Also.
We already got a few donationsbecause I announced it through
threads and on our Patreon.
Frank (06:11):
We did.
Lauren (06:12):
We did so.
Thank you to Wish Wish Wish,our first supporter, and also to
Anonymous.
Frank (06:23):
Thanks, anonymous, thanks Anonymous.
Wow, everyone's probably sosick of me screaming oh my god,
I might have to cut some of thatout.
Lauren (06:34):
This is a really hyped up intro.
Frank (06:36):
Yeah.
Lauren (06:36):
You know what that's okay.
Frank (06:37):
Sure.
Lauren (06:38):
Okay, those are all the updates.
It was a lot.
Thank you for sticking with mewhile I told you all of these
things and thanked all of ourpals.
Frank (06:48):
And thanks to me for being maybe the best one-man
peanut gallery.
Lauren (06:51):
You're quite the hype man, yikes.
Okay, frank, let's talk aboutit for a second.
Frank (07:04):
Here.
Hold on to this selenite towerfor a moment.
Lauren (07:07):
Before the episode, Frank grabbed a selenite crystal
just to clear your energy.
Frank (07:13):
We've been told selenite is the vacuum filter of emotions
.
Lauren (07:18):
So if you heard our last episode, episode 65, which was
when a psychic reading doesn'tresonate, then you'll know what
we're referring to.
If you didn't listen to that,it's just a 10 minute episode.
It kind of gets you caught up alittle bit without actually
hearing the interview because,that's going into the trash can.
(07:39):
Yeah, so we had a lot ofdiscussion.
So we had a lot of discussion.
Essentially, what happened waswe had a guest who is a sort of
a spiritual business coach andit was a big lesson.
My initial I was following thisperson and I went to their
(08:00):
videos and their posts and Ikind of went back and forth on
like, would this person be agood guest?
Something told me no.
So this is a huge lesson infollowing my intuition and
listening.
The first time when I hear thatsacral no and the sacral no is
(08:20):
something that we learnedthrough human design but that
something in your gut that saysthis isn't the right thing and
something popped up that told me, oh, maybe it would be good,
maybe we'd learn something aboutmoney, mindset or manifesting
or something.
But ultimately it ended upbeing an interview that made us
(08:41):
afterwards feel reallyuncomfortable, really, really
pissed off.
Frank made me it like activatedall of our shadows.
So, uh, this was a huge.
Frank (08:58):
This was a huge lesson let me say, and that was so the
lesson is not just a sacral, no,but also in.
You know, we've always talkedabout on the show psychics who
don't necessarily have your bestintentions in mind, right, and
how to spot them and recognizethem.
And then here we are, having awhole show about that and kind
(09:19):
of falling victim to that.
Very charismatic people existand that's something to keep in
mind.
They can also be psychic.
I'm yeah and and you know ifyou've heard the last episode
sorry for going over this again,but I'm pretty sure that what
happened was that our likeshadow selves, which for a
(09:39):
minute maybe, we talk about theshadow and but our, our, our
shadow selves were red and thenused against us right, um,
particularly like in uh,lauren's inner child was brought
up and then my sense of valueand how it's, this entire last
(10:00):
year, year and a half, has beentied to my sense of how I tie my
personal value to my earning,what I earn, or like my work or
whatever it's it's it's oldshadow stuff.
But then basically it wasaffirmed to me that, oh yeah,
you should do that and you, youare not living into your, your
(10:21):
what you should be doing in yourlife, and that is weaponizing
that shit.
And for me in particular, afterwe had a couple of rough days,
what it's allowed me to do, onceI got over the hump of like, oh
my god, someone confirmed thatthe worst part of me really is
(10:42):
the worst part of me and thatI'm living wrong what it's made
me do is kind of double down onbetting on myself in in a very
specific way, and we'll get intothat later yeah, really quick,
I just want to give oh sorry anoutline of just what happened.
Lauren (10:57):
We brought this person on our show.
We had a lot of just kind ofbasic back and forth questions
how do you bring spiritualityinto growing wealth?
How do you bring that into aboardroom or dealing with CEOs,
how do you keep you know, how doyou use your intuition, that
kind of thing.
And this person was like well,also, I'm psychic.
(11:18):
So I just, you know, read theperson and and I cut through the
BS and all this stuff.
Did you know that they werepsychic before I cut through the
bs and all this stuff?
Frank (11:24):
so did you know?
Did you know that they werepsychic before they came on the
show?
No yeah, we were just talkinglike an empowerment person as
far as we knew I knew.
Lauren (11:31):
I knew there was like a blend of intuition and like
spirituality yeah but but notlike there's no claim to I'm
psychic on their, any of theirplatforms, okay, so then that
was the first like half an hour.
And then at some point I said,okay, what you know, how would
(11:54):
you give advice to someone witha limiting mindset, or something
like that?
Just kind of making a general,and Frank was like no, I get
personal, you know, make itabout, make it about you.
Kind of making it general, andFrank was like no, I get
personal, you know, make itabout, make it about you.
And I'm like okay, I have thisidea to create a workshop.
And I know that I'm feelingmyself become a little bit
(12:15):
smaller when I say that becauseI have a little debt, I struggle
with self-doubt.
And the immediate response wasokay, well, let me ask you this
what happens to your marriagewhen you step into who you truly
want to be?
And I was like just what, whatI wasn't asking about, what do
you mean?
Frank (12:33):
I was.
I was staring at theinterviewee just like, okay,
where's this going?
Yeah, where's this going yeah.
Lauren (12:39):
So when you're in this kind of position to be like how
we are, we're open, we'revulnerable, we're willing to
take advice and be flexible inlike sure, you're going to like
coach me for a second, but itjust it got like really, it got
(13:01):
really direct in the not so goodway, just really fast, where I
was like kind of sweating andwell, I sweat every interview
and then they said, like whathappens?
(13:26):
You know what is the little girlin you most afraid of?
That will happen with anybodythat you love and, of course,
like I don't think my husband'sgonna leave me.
But if you say, like what's thelittle girl in you the most
afraid of?
That is always going to bebeing left or being abandoned
abandonment yeah that is.
That is the thing that I'm like.
Are you talking to, like thethree-year-old in me?
Frank (13:40):
so literally in like the blink of an eye.
It went from how should I thinkabout my uh upcoming coaching
uh project to your husband'sgonna leave you, and our heads
were spinning a little bit yeahand you know so what.
What lauren is like talkingabout right now is, in
particular, because of thenature of the show, we're always
putting ourselves in a positionof learning right.
(14:02):
So we are allowing ourinterviewees to, like you know,
tell us how it is, to a certainextent at least, from their
perspective yeah we have, we, welike doing that because we are
supposed to be here gatheringinformation, right, but we
haven't run into somebody who,who would take into that, who
would take the advantage of that, that dynamic yeah, just to use
an example or like a comparison, michelle Hollingbrooks was an
(14:28):
incredible guest.
Lauren (14:28):
If you haven't heard part one and two of her
interview, she's incredible.
Frank (14:33):
I don't even want to incur her name in this episode,
because she's a saint, saintMichelle.
Lauren (14:39):
Truly and like we.
I mean she did a healing, justa healing example, with us and
she had me invite my inner childin front of me and imagine
asking her to come join us inour family room and be with our
family and be treated the waythat, like she wants to be
(15:03):
nurtured and all that stuff.
So I was crying during thatgood but.
But there's a challenge cry yes, like oh, yeah, I need to face
this cry, and then there's upsetcry yeah, then there's like I
wasn't asking.
I was asking about doing aworkshop, not about like if my
husband's gonna like up andleave me, so really kind of just
(15:25):
using that to their advantageand then focusing and honing in
on Frank and how he needs tostep into his masculine energy
and this was one of thoseinterviews One of those we
haven't had one yet where Iliterally couldn't say anything
right.
Frank (15:44):
Every time I said something or defended my
standpoint and said I don't knowif I like that in my own words,
without being confrontational,it was like I was immediately
shit on.
Yeah, it was so weird.
Lauren (15:54):
Yeah.
Frank (15:55):
It was so weird because it was such a.
It was such a weird confusingmix of some good advice and then
like, like slamming me and.
And then like, like slamming meand and then telling Lauren she
needs to stop being so likeminimizing herself, but at the
same time, in kind of anaggressive way, that didn't feel
good.
Lauren (16:12):
Yeah.
Frank (16:12):
And like it it it didn't.
I knew that during theinterview.
As soon as we got off theinterview, I said I hated that.
Lauren (16:21):
Literally Frank Frank's words were I hated that, that
and I said I'm sure yeah andthen, uh, you know, you just had
to sit with that for a fewminutes and be like how much of
that was true so you know not toharp on this anymore, but
really the takeaway was a biglesson in trusting trusting our
(16:44):
instincts, our intuition, andnot letting and acknowledging
our shadows when they pop up,but saying like those aren't in
control of me or those aren'tnecessarily who I am now or
really, what was being presentedto us is that our shadows are
(17:09):
our true selves and that we arenot in control of them
whatsoever.
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Frank (17:14):
And that's like a horrible thing to be told.
Lauren (17:17):
Yeah, someone who claims to be psychic, telling you that
they know better and usingtheir underdeveloped ability to
(17:38):
kind of get a little bit ofcontrol over you, or or
basically, say, oh yeah, well,now you should, I should coach
you.
Frank (17:40):
And let's be clear about what we mean by underdeveloped.
We don't mean not a goodpsychic, very psychic, very
intuitive, hitting on good.
What we mean by underdevelopedwe don't mean not a good psychic
, very psychic, very intuitive,hitting on good things.
When we say underdeveloped,what we mean is that bedside and
those ethics and how much ofyour own personal ego is brought
into that reading, and it wasclear that it was a ego-first
reading.
Lauren (17:59):
Yeah.
Frank (17:59):
That person brought their worldview into this space and
want to know what's crazy aboutit.
I'm gonna say something rightnow.
What?
And it's not that controversial, especially these days?
But billionaires should notexist.
So this person is in our, is inmy church and telling me that
they are trying to encouragemillionaires, that they could be
(18:22):
billionaires, but they havelimiting mindsets yeah and like
how about if you just go suck abag of trash for me?
Okay?
Lauren (18:31):
like no, that should have been our first and yeah and
like, like, like shaking overhere, probably just from the,
just from the comment of moremoney and someone making,
someone making billions, andhe's like, yeah, but we're
(18:52):
creating a caste system now andyeah, and I was brought
shouldn't people not have thatmuch money?
Because it's a problem it?
Frank (19:00):
was brought up, they used that against me, saying like,
oh, you have an issue with money, and I used to hate money.
People had money too.
I'm like no, no, and when youknow AOC said it best recently
billions are not earned, they'retaken, and I firmly believe
(19:31):
that to be true.
Lauren (19:32):
Yeah.
Frank (19:32):
So yeah and and sorry if we're getting too political for
you, but, um, legitimately, it'sthe mindset around that
predatory capitalism and ifyou're in the boardroom these
days with people who admirepeople in even larger boardrooms
, like the expectation forpredatory capitalism, is built
into your, your, yourorganization, um, I mean, I
(19:55):
can't speak for everybody.
I'm sure there's something.
Ben and jerry's pretty great,but you know, like, like, if
you're, if you're wanting moremoney and you already have a lot
of money, like you've got aproblem, dude.
Like you want to talk aboutshadows.
If you're wanting more moneyand you already have a lot of
money, you've got a problem,dude.
You want to talk about shadows.
If you're a CEO and you thinkyou need more money after your
multi-millions, you need to slowdown.
You have messed up.
(20:15):
It's not about that.
So to claim yourself to be likea spiritual guru in the
boardrooms, telling people thatthey do need more money is
absolutely unhinged, to be clearit's, you know, it's just not.
Lauren (20:32):
It's not really the kind of thing that we, that we
uplift on this show.
I mean and you know, and if youdo, like that, then then then
great, it's just like we have.
We wanted something that alignswith our values and yeah, I
want to give lauren.
Frank (20:48):
This is one of the situations where I want to make
sure there is a division betweenlauren and I.
These are the views of myself.
I don't like predatorycapitalism, and neither does
lauren, but I'm the one that's alittle more ragey about it, and
that's fine.
Yeah, okay yeah I don't, Idon't want to drag you into my
(21:09):
rage no, I'm ragey about it too.
Lauren (21:11):
All right, you're just louder about it.
Frank (21:15):
I get loud when it comes to the stuff.
Lauren (21:16):
Yeah that's okay it's fine, um, I was going to say one
more thing, oh, and I just wantto bring up the point that,
like, when I say underdeveloped,I'm talking about someone who
most likely didn't take classeson like psychic development,
(21:37):
intuitive development andlearning those really basic
things about ethics.
Frank (21:43):
We did the clairvoyaging thing.
We said how'd you get started?
And yeah, there was no mentionof that at all no it was.
I've always been this way yeahand like scary okay.
Lauren (21:54):
So, yeah, real quick.
You know, I had to deal withlike my guilt of of.
I think I have that rejection.
Sensitivity, dysphoria orwhatever it's called.
It's kind of can go hand inhand with adhd and I think um
the idea of being wrong or doingthe wrong thing.
(22:14):
I I'm so afraid of rejectionthat I just tried to make it all
okay.
I don't want to be responsible,I'm responsible for this guest.
And then, ultimately, how thisguest made you feel and how this
guest brought us in like thisfriction, like turmoil.
(22:38):
Do you actually feel this way?
Because the psychic told methat you feel this way?
That's just final for me.
Final lesson intuition.
You can just just just stepinto your mistake and it's okay.
Frank (22:52):
But we're never here.
So here's the thing now, andthis is where this is the.
The guts of what I want to talkabout on this episode is that
we're not going to be able tofilter everybody in the world,
and I'm not talking about likeon the show, I mean like in real
life.
Right, and this is for thelisteners too.
We're going to run into peoplewho are going to try and sell
(23:16):
you the psychic version of atimeshare, and if you are
susceptible to that, like Lordand I, have once purchased a
timeshare and then immediatelytook it back.
Lauren (23:23):
We had to send a letter via fax to say we rescind.
Frank (23:30):
We looked at each other and said what have we done?
We're too emotion based, if youown a timeshare and you love it
, then you're doing it correctly.
But afterwards we were likewait, whoa, this is not.
No, what are we doing?
How did this happen?
I think we can get sold.
Yeah, I'm concerned about ourability to be sold.
Lauren (23:48):
I heard other people popping champagne.
I was like it's time for us tocelebrate.
Frank (23:55):
Frank, I really want them to pop the champagne for us.
Lauren (23:57):
We got to my mom's house and she's like you did what.
You did not buy the timeshare.
Frank (24:04):
So listen, listen, it's not about.
It's not about stupidity, it'sabout putting yourself in the,
not even putting yourself in thesituations.
It's not your fault, it's notour fault, but it really did
make lauren and I realized thatin those moments we don't have a
lot of emotional tools,especially in this environment
where we're talking to a psychicright, someone that that we
(24:26):
have, a we have a 65 episodehistory of trusting, yeah,
people with with deep intuition.
It puts us in a situation weare very vulnerable to what
we're told.
So.
So what do we do if we findourselves in that situation
again?
What tools do we have toidentify when we are being effed
with?
Lauren (24:47):
Your recommendation to me, which was really helpful,
was to create my personal set ofprinciples or standards, or
what you call tenets, to remindmyself of who I am and who I'm
not.
Frank (25:06):
Yeah, If you are like a person like we are, who you know
is very open-minded and willingto hear things out, is
sometimes having to switch overto be in a defensive mode is
uncomfortable and it feelsconfrontational and sometimes
sometimes I let it, I get tooemotional or I feel too terrible
.
Before I turn that switch,before I flip that switch into
(25:27):
like defense mode, and writingsome things out, some principles
or some tenets, or you can callthem non-negotiables, is a
really good way to give yourselfthat trigger.
Like oh, there's been aviolation.
I don't feel terrible yet, butthere's been a clear violation.
Like, let's, let's strike onekind of thing yeah and then it's
(25:48):
like, okay, I might, you mightknow who you're dealing with.
I created a set of tenets ornon-negotiables for claire
voyaging as an entity that weare going to be following moving
forward, and I'll go over themin a little bit, but I did want
to mention one thing.
Um, cause we've talked aboutlike shadow self and all that
(26:08):
stuff.
Lauren (26:08):
Yeah.
Frank (26:09):
And, if I know, we've mentioned it in the past, but I
did a little bit of researchjust so I can talk about it more
clearly and I want to mentionwhat that is.
You know, in in your life, whenyou're growing up or going
through your you know, um, uh,formative years, there are times
when either your environment oryour own psyche makes it so
that this is all.
This is a Jungian concept, Ibelieve he coined shadow your,
(26:36):
your environment, or your oryour psyche, your own psyche has
pushed certain aspects orelements of yourself into your
subconscious.
I'm going to screw this up, butit's fine, just hear me out,
you're doing a great job.
Simple version.
So what it is is you have theseelements that you're trying to
repress right Of yourself, whenreally you're supposed to
(26:57):
acknowledge those things thatyou've been told aren't right or
that you've told yourselfaren't right, and then accept
them to a certain extent andreintegrate them in a way that
is not, that is non-destructive,right?
So, for example, um, you couldsay so, I I for a long time was
like, oh, like I'll never getanywhere with creativity, even
though I saw the opposite allaround me.
(27:18):
People were getting places, likebeing in the arts and stuff,
right and and like earning aliving, but for some reason I
told myself that that's not,that's not going to work for me,
right?
So I put that on the backburner and I was living a
duality.
I was living a dual lifestylewhere I had a very corporate job
that I hated during the day, asyou all freaking know I have
(27:40):
said this way too much and thenat night I was an artist by
night, and I would let my freakflag fly Right.
And at some point, at somepoint in the last few years,
that became too hard to manageand it was because literally I
was doing, I was working on myshadow self artistry in the
shadows, like at nighttime, likeafter hours, right?
Lauren (28:02):
So wait?
Is the shadow in this case,your belief that you'll never do
anything bigger with yourcreativity.
Frank (28:14):
It would have been the belief, saying that this will
never get, this will neverprovide me with anything that I
or like that fear of steppingout into that version of
yourself.
Whatever I suppressed.
So what I suppressed was thebelief that I could ever make
money doing art.
Lauren (28:31):
Right, okay.
So, that's considered a shadow.
Well yeah, sure, okay.
Frank (28:36):
Yeah, I made a belief system.
What I did was I suppressed mytrue, authentic self, which is
as an artist.
Lauren (28:43):
Right.
Frank (28:44):
And I took on the mantle of.
I have a corporate job, I am acorporate worker, I'm a cog in
the machine I have.
I have yeah.
What are the cubicles?
Lauren (28:54):
What are those called?
Frank (28:55):
Yeah, cubicles, I let it go so and that becomes a lot
right, and?
And the concept of the, thelike shadow work is that you are
working to reintegrate, right.
So in my case now I'm like,well, hold on, if I all the the
hard work and all the like workethic and stuff that I brought
into just trying to make my fakemantle of a corporate worker
(29:18):
work for me, like I can take allthose lessons and and bring it
back to my suppressed artistself and pull that up again and
let reintegrate Right and I canbe excited about it Like I am
now.
Here we are, I'm excited, Ilove it hey, yeah.
And not to say it's an easytransition or anything, but
that's what the concept is.
(29:39):
So if you have somebody who'stapped into your those repressed
parts of you, things thatpeople told you you can't be or
can't do, or those worst fearsof you that you've also
repressed and you're denying, Ideny that right, even though it
(30:00):
might be like a little bit trueor there might be some truth to
it, or maybe it was true 10, 20years ago, whatever that might
be.
So if someone could see thatyour worst sense of yourself and
then use, use it against you,literally weaponize your own
shadow against you, oof, that isa, that is a.
That is a slithery snake, thatis a toxic individual yeah, I, I
want to.
Lauren (30:17):
I want to say too, because we're talking about the
shadow, um, the it's.
I don't think it's acoincidence that this interview
that we had, that brought up allof our shit, came during
eclipse season, like I mean highemotions, full moon, all that
(30:41):
stuff which I don't know why Idon't have the scientific.
I don't think I don't know whatthe scientific explanation is
for eclipses bringing up all ofyour shadow self and your
traumas and dealing with yourfears and all this stuff.
Frank (30:57):
But I don't know.
Lauren (30:59):
It's just interesting that this came at that exact
week.
Frank (31:03):
It is.
I mean, we've been flippingthrough tiktok and everyone's
like, oh yeah, it's, it's, it'sretrograde and oh yeah,
retrograde and eclipse season,and like we're going to be
working with your shadows andthings are going to come up and
you're going to feeluncomfortable I made a joke
video on tiktok about it, butit's true it is true, it's very.
I mean whatever, regardless ofif you subscribe to that stuff
(31:24):
or not yeah it happened.
It happened here, yeah, which is, you know, it's funny.
It's funny if you want like avery quick, loose scientific
explanation for like why, like,the lunar shit affects you.
I I did see someone today whowas like, who said, um, she was
like our bodies are made of like80% water.
Right, you see what the balloon, the moon, does to the tides,
(31:47):
right, why would you not havethings come up to?
So I wanted to talk aboutdiscernment, like I was saying
earlier, like when you're in asituation like this where you
are open-minded but you likedon't have any evidence you know
we're talking about spiritualstuff and like being open to
this stuff, right, like we'renot always asking for direct
(32:09):
evidence, but what are you beingtaken advantage of?
And side note, another thingthat happened this weekend,
which is very funny.
I don't know how active youguys are on tiktok, but like the
um yeah like alien disclosurestuff is just going off right.
Everyone's been talking aboutthe like uh uips and drones and
all that stuff lately, but therewas a certain individual I
(32:30):
won't name names, I don't thinkit's her fault but there was a
certain individual flying aroundtiktok who was saying that this
weekend was the big weekendwhere where the like galactic
people federation I don't knowif it was the federation.
I don't know what I think shedid say federation, okay, well,
galactic people Federation.
Lauren (32:45):
I don't know if it was the Federation.
I don't know what I think shedid say.
Frank (32:46):
Federation.
Okay, well, galactic folks weregoing to be showing themselves
literally as she was saying Viamotherships Via motherships the
size of cities, visible toeveryone, not just people, like
in tune with it.
And yeah so, lauren, what'd youthink when the aliens showed up
?
That was pretty cool, right.
Um, yeah so, lauren, what'd youthink when the aliens showed up
?
Lauren (33:06):
that was pretty cool.
Right frank has gotten reallyinto this side of of tiktok and
the side of I think fascinatedis.
Fascinated is the correct termwe, I can't you know, you guys,
we did go outside and lookaround and we looked at the sky
(33:26):
each night and we said what thehell we looked up and we said
hey, nothing's happening.
You said you were coming solet's talk about.
I want to talk about discernmentfor a quick second, all right
frank's like okay if nothinghappens this weekend, which I'm
(33:46):
sure it probably won't, but whennothing happens this weekend
I'm gonna go on an unfollowquest oh yeah, it's already it's
begun.
Yes, the unfollowing has begun.
Frank (33:59):
Yeah, now it's too much sometimes well, all I wanted to
say was that also the personthat said that the motherships
were coming, she did.
She was like.
She was like.
What did she say?
She said that there was not anymiscommunication, but that
there were.
Someone changed their mind andthat she's also susceptible to
(34:23):
how the aliens will sometimeslie for certain purposes.
And the thing I said to Laurenwas wait a minute.
We're asking for help frompeople who lie, and what
happened to like best and whatyour highest good.
Highest and best or whateverright.
What happened to?
(34:44):
Like you're going to lie to mejust for a joke.
So I was like highest, good,highest and best, or whatever
Right.
Well, having a light, oh,you're gonna lie to me just for
a joke.
So I was like, oh man thosealiens are tricksters, so my
whole thing was this Likethere's a chance that, like you
know that that's all real, butat what point are we just
putting our blind faith intosome, like you know, something
that we have no evidential proofof?
(35:04):
And I don't want us, especiallyon the show, in any kind of way
to recreate any kind of.
A large part of the show isgetting away from traditional
religious ideologies.
Which traditional religiousideologies put something between
you and your ability to expandyour own faith Right?
Lauren (35:25):
Yeah.
Frank (35:27):
You need a church, you need a priest and, in this case,
what I need a channeler likewhy tell me what the aliens are
saying?
And the aliens know best.
Why is there always someone inthe middle?
Lauren (35:37):
Yeah.
Frank (35:37):
So let's.
This is discernment.
This is where discernment comesin and like really this, where
discernment comes in and andlike really this is based on if
you're in, if we find ourselvesin a situation where we are
being too open.
I'd love to hear stories.
I want to hear more abouteveryone's religious faiths and
their, their spirituality.
I don't necessarily need tosubscribe to it, but where do we
(35:58):
come in as individuals?
I'm talking about lauren and Ias hosts and you as listeners,
and this is when I came up withthe clairvoyaging tenants that
are non negotiables for how weare moving forward, and I'd like
to read them real quick to you.
Lauren (36:11):
Yeah, and love to hear it.
Frank (36:13):
Lauren, I'm going to read what I wrote, and then I'm
probably gonna put these on ourwebsite too.
Lauren (36:18):
Great.
Frank (36:19):
And then I'd like you to comment.
Lauren (36:21):
Okay.
Frank (36:21):
Or we can discuss some talking points, comment, okay,
or we can discuss some talkingpoints, right, okay, please,
please, tell me, tell, tell us.
So.
The first, the first tenet issovereignty over obedience, and
what I mean by that is do notlet anybody tell you who you are
.
You are the master of your ownjourney yeah, um and this
(36:47):
obviously plays back comes backto, like, our interview we had
to throw away, right, someonewas telling us, yeah, who we
were, and claimed to know usbetter than we knew ourselves.
Even if someone does have theability to read into your the
worst, darkest version ofyourself, right, right, you
still have free will.
If you don't want that, youdon't have to be it in any kind
(37:10):
of way.
Lauren (37:11):
Yeah, you know, speaking of sovereignty and that
interview, the most empoweringthing was realizing the choice
that we could make, which waswe're not publishing that, and
the minute that we could make,which was we're not publishing
that, and the minute that wasthe option.
It was the clearest option andit was also the most freeing
(37:32):
because it reminded me this isour show, like you know, there
is something really empoweringabout what are our values.
It doesn't include this, sothis is not going to be included
.
And I'm such a people pleaserthat my, my fear was like, oh,
they're gonna be upset orthey're maybe ask us at some
(37:56):
point, like what happened tothat episode?
Sorry, it didn't fit, it didn'talign with our principles or or
the messaging that we're tryingto have with our show yeah,
well, we didn't have ourprinciples laid out yet, because
we've been yeah, we have.
We had a loose idea of like,does this feel right or not?
Frank (38:14):
right, yeah, of course, yeah, yeah, but now, in the
moment, we'll know yeah numbertwo number two number.
Empowerment over dependencyVery similar but a little
different, and that reads asfollows Spiritual wisdom comes
from within.
Find the right balance betweenexternal validation and
(38:36):
self-reliance.
Lauren (38:37):
Yeah.
Frank (38:38):
We don't want to be in a situation where we constantly
need affirmation of our owntruths but at the same time we
do like some validation, and yougotta choose whatever works for
you.
But if you find yourselfrelinquishing your own
self-reliance in terms of likeyou need someone else to
(39:01):
externally validate what you aregoing through, then you're
probably not doing it, right,right it's true.
Lauren (39:08):
there is a point where I mean as spiritual people you,
you, our listeners are mostlikely on a spiritual journey
yourselves and, depending onwhere you are, you might not
necessarily need to go topsychic or medium readings, and
(39:30):
that's not to say like don't doit anymore.
However, you might not feelthat pull because so much of the
intuition is already within youand the answers are already
within you.
I know that there comes a pointwhere it's like when you're
kind of just floundering andyou're like I really want
someone to tell me how I feel,or validate how I feel, or read
(39:50):
me, because I don't know what'sgoing on.
Then, once you start doingthose deep dives, you don't
require that as much.
Like maybe there's like youknow you're using divination or
you're kind of like you're usingmeditation or whatever.
That's all seeking validationfrom yourself, your higher self
(40:16):
or your spirit guides.
Does that make sense?
Frank (40:20):
Kind of.
But even if you were like, evenif you're completely leaning on
div because you can abusedivination right.
Lauren (40:26):
Yeah.
Frank (40:26):
You've got to find the balance.
So I pull tarot cards all thetime, as you know, because I
pull them for you too.
But what the tarot card does isit leads to a deep discussion.
I'm not literally reading thetarot descriptions and saying,
oh okay, cool, and then basingmy life off of that and saying,
oh okay, cool, and then basingmy life off of that.
It's like a.
(40:47):
Kickstarter to a conversationthat leads to something that I
may be not addressing orsomething that I hadn't thought
of, and it is always amazing aslong as you bring your own
intuitive knowledge into it, andthat's where but if someone is
just straight up telling you howit is, then you are in for a
world of hurt.
Lauren (41:05):
And you're depending on what they say as opposed to what
you feel.
Frank (41:11):
Yeah, maybe we caught the last interviewee on a bad day,
but if that was a good day, thenI feel really bad for that
person's clients, because theyare in a in a like a high risk
situation where not only arethey handing over their own
personal power, they're also atrisk of being abused.
(41:35):
To be honest, yeah.
So anyway.
Lauren (41:39):
Manipulated at the very least, which brings us to number
three.
Go on.
Frank (41:42):
Do no harm.
Do no harm.
What do we mean by that?
Go on, do no harm, do no harm.
What do we mean by that?
So all of us, all of ourjourneys, look different and
deserve respect.
So when we are engaged in adiscussion about spirituality,
it's important for us to meetpeople where they are and
encourage their own growth attheir own pace, and not to tell
(42:06):
them what's right or tell themwhat's wrong, but to push them
along in a healthy, encouragingkind of way.
Right, you don't want to breakpeople down?
Yeah, so I always feel, I feelbad about this.
I might've talked about this inone of our earlier episodes,
but you know, when I was youngerand I was I personally was
trying to work my way out of theCatholic church, which is not a
(42:29):
comfortable, it's not acomfortable thing to do.
Ask anyone who's done it.
Lauren (42:33):
Yeah.
Frank (42:33):
But I was also kind of like raging against my, my
parents, because they were sosteeped in it, right, and and I
got to a point once I starteddoing my own growth and and I
wasn't I stopped projecting ontothem what I wanted.
I'm going to say that again Istopped projecting onto them
what I wanted for myself.
(42:55):
Then I was like, oh shit, likethat's how they connect, right,
yeah, it's what they'recomfortable with and it's what
brings them this deep sense ofspirituality and peace.
Who the hell am I to take thataway from them?
Yeah, regardless if I agreewith it or not not, my parents
are way I'd say.
My parents have done a lot ofwork and they're way more
(43:15):
open-minded too, but they stillhave that like foundation of the
, the faith that they grew upwith, and there's nothing wrong
with that yeah, in fact, there's, might be even some things good
with it.
But they also my parents alsodisplay discernment in where
they are, like they have.
They pick and choose what worksfor them yeah they integrate it
.
And then there are some thingsthat they've let go of.
(43:36):
The catholic church makes iteasy to let some things go
because they keep blowing it.
That's all I'll say.
But but you know, that's.
That's that discernment yeah um, and that's also like releasing
that gatekeeping that thechurch and tradition,
traditional churches can do, butalso the gatekeeping that
(43:58):
weaponized psychics can do toyou.
You need them.
No, no, any comments on thatyeah, I mean the, the.
Lauren (44:14):
We might have a listener here or there that has fallen
victim to the.
You have a curse.
I am the only person who canremove it, or I can do a
cleansing and it's only $700.
Or the people who, like I keptseeing on Reddit, there's like
(44:37):
stories of people who are like Ijust went to a psychic and they
told me that my husband isgoing to die in the next year
and there's nothing I can doabout it and like just really
damaging things, that like nowthey can't sleep at night and
all this stuff.
So that is so harmful.
Frank (44:58):
So now, obviously we will never have a guest like that,
but you know, former guest infront of the show, michael mayo,
has talked about how, like,there are certain things that
don't come through in spirit andthey're called the four d's oh
yeah, it's.
Oh man, why did I put myself ina situation where I have to
(45:20):
remember them death, destruction, divorce and donald trump?
I can't remember what thefourth one was, but like some
things are not supposed to comeas far as mediumship goes, some
things are not supposed to comethrough like that, right yeah um
, spirit's never gonna give youyour when by spirit I mean, like
your ancestors, your spiritguides they're not going to give
(45:42):
you devastating news, and also,with the future, somewhat
unwritten, that's just not,nothing's for sure yeah like
we've had psychic readings wherethey hit on things that are
true and the timing's always off.
I always talk about how the jokeof our existence is time and
how time moves.
The timing is going to be off.
Lauren (46:03):
Yeah.
Frank (46:03):
So when someone oh your husband's going to die, no shit,
Everyone dies man.
But like you're, you're tellingme, next year, suck a bag of
trash.
Lauren (46:15):
Oh no, it's a new Frank catchphrase.
That is not one that I want totake off.
I'm putting it on yourheadstone.
Oh okay, I'm fine with it.
His favorite quote suck a bagof trash and you know what I
gotta say?
Frank (46:34):
something suck a bag of trash.
Brings us to tenet number four.
Okay, the last tenet is take noshit, so do no harm.
Take no shit, so do no harm,take no shit.
You've heard the phrase.
Lauren (46:48):
Okay.
Frank (46:48):
Okay, take no shit.
Spiritual growth can presentchallenges, but it's never
aggressive.
Okay, trust your sacralresponse, the thing we were
talking about earlier, that gutfeeling that tells you whether
or not something is right foryou.
(47:08):
If someone is challenging youin a way that feels negative or
depleting depleting of your ownenergy they are projecting onto
you.
Do not accept it.
And see tenant number one,which is sovereignty over
obedience.
You know what?
Maybe number five is suck a bagof trash.
Lauren (47:28):
Yeah, that's the unofficial number five.
The show's changed man our lastguest really changed us.
Frank (47:43):
But like, legitimately, this the entire thing breaks
down to, that is that, likethere's a way to guard your
growth while also not beingsusceptible to, um, you know,
people's shitty takes, and Ithink I think lauren and I just
figured out how to, how to workthat out, and I'm hoping that if
(48:04):
you found yourself in aposition where you're also being
victimized yeah, victimized bypeople with, uh, supposed
intuitive abilities, that that's, that's how to go about it is
no, no one to cut it off and noone to say they're full of shit
yeah and growth mindset.
While being positive, I'm sayingthing, it doesn't even have to
(48:26):
be intuitive, psychic, anythinglike that.
I mean, look at we talked about.
We briefly mentioned what wasit called.
You know those like group thinkuh workshops where you're
supposed to go there and likework on yourself but then they
end up yelling at you and youfeel horrible about yourself.
Landmine, landmine, landmarklandmark yeah, stuff like that.
(48:46):
I don't know how popular that isanymore, but like I don't know,
yeah, yeah like being put intoin a position where you are
super uncomfortable and is isnot something that you have to
do to grow.
You don't have to beuncomfortable yeah like, like
publicly humiliated to grow.
You don't have to be humiliatedto grow.
(49:06):
You might be humiliated by likewhat you've thought about
yourself in the past, but itdoesn't have to be like a
shaming and, in fact, in fact,the best way to go about all of
this is without shame, causethat shame is going to like
drive you into a place you don'twant to go to, and shame
essentially creates more shadowsfor you to work through down
(49:27):
the line.
You're just kicking the rockdown the road.
Lauren (49:29):
Yeah, there were exercises that sounded like
deeply devastating and, I'm sure, healing.
But to like access your are youtalking about landmines?
Frank (49:41):
Yeah, okay.
Lauren (49:42):
Landmine to access your darkest memories in in a group
setting and maybe even be pushedto talk about them in front of
other people.
I don't think so.
That's not for me.
Frank (49:56):
No no.
Lauren (49:57):
I was like no, I'm not doing that.
Frank (49:59):
That's aggressive.
Lauren (50:00):
Yeah.
Frank (50:00):
It's ego, it's maybe someone was treated that way and
they are just like you know,hazing other people into doing
the same thing.
If you feel hazed, don't do it,okay.
So one more time.
Let me just go over them.
Just the headlines here.
Number one sovereignty overobedience.
Number two empowerment overdependency.
(50:21):
Number three do no harm.
Four take no shit.
Lauren (50:25):
And five suck a bag of trash that one's the silent, the
silent one, yeah, so dumb, uh,you know, I think these will.
These will help us recognizewhat's going on, if there's, if
(50:47):
something's going astray oh yeah, no, wouldn't.
Frank (50:51):
We're never going sideways again.
Lauren (50:52):
Yeah so I feel like that sums up our, our big lessons.
This is, you know, we like tocall these kind of episodes
milestones, and I think this,this is a pretty important
milestone for us.
Frank (51:07):
It is a milestone.
It might not be as fun as theother ones.
Lauren (51:13):
But that's part of it.
I just realized this is episodenumber 66.
Frank (51:17):
Maybe that's not an accident.
New levels, new devils.
I've said it before, I'll sayit again oh, is that a saying?
Yeah, if it's not, I've got anew t-shirt to make.
Lauren (51:30):
I'm putting number 66 as an angel number is it, it can
be can it be?
Yeah or new it new new angles,new angels?
No, yeah no, those are the sameword no new angles, new angels,
the e and the l, the dyslexicsare not big fans right now.
Frank (51:55):
Someone's gonna say new angles, new angles.
Lauren (51:57):
They must work in construction no, I'm just
keeping it high vibes, sure,okay, you guys, we love you.
Frank (52:07):
Maybe some of the stuff we've talked about is old news
to you.
You've done this, you've donethe work, but this is a new
little bit.
You'd think, after 40-somethingyears of life, that we'd be
better at handling theaggressive sales types.
Lauren (52:21):
and here we are when you're not expecting it on your
own podcast.
You're just not really readyfor it.
So now we're prepared.
Frank (52:32):
Yeah.
Lauren (52:32):
This is our house and I must defend it.
Frank (52:36):
Oh, wow Home.
Lauren (52:37):
Alone Anyone.
Frank (52:39):
Everyone.
Lauren (52:39):
It's not the season for it, but it's always.
Frank (52:41):
It's always the season for Home Alone.
Lauren (52:44):
Also, I just want to say thank you.
There were several people whoreached out after listening to
that little short episode thatwe had.
Just thank you, because it wastough.
So thank you for sayinganything that you said to us.
It was really sweet.
Frank (53:03):
Thank you for your support, guys.
We really appreciate it.
Thank you so much Love you.
Lauren (53:07):
Love you hearts and it was really sweet.
Thank you for your support,guys.
We really appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
Frank (53:11):
Love you, Love you Hearts and stars.
Peace Bye.
Thank you for listening.
Visit clairevoyagingcom formerchandise or to access free
resources to help you on yourspiritual journey.
Subscribe to our Patreon formore content or join for free to
chat with us.
Claire Voyaging is a fiscallysponsored project of Fractured
Atlas, a 501c3 charity.
Make a tax-deductible donationto support our mission to foster
(53:36):
understanding, respect andcuriosity for diverse spiritual
belief systems.
Clairvoyaging is a productionof Wayfeather Media.
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