May 15, 2025 • 36 mins
Big change can feel exhilarating—and terrifying. In this personal episode, Lauren and Frank step away from their usual interview format to share the emotional rollercoaster of preparing for a major move. As they unpack their own resistance to change, they explore a powerful truth: even the most welcome transformations can stir up deep fears and old patterns.
Through honest storytelling and intuitive reflection, they dive into why we sometimes cling to familiar discomfort, whether in jobs, relationships, or physical spaces. Lauren opens up about her tendency to “bottleneck for control,” while Frank reflects on staying too long in a misaligned job. Together, they examine how childhood experiences and parental fears shape our reactions to uncertainty—especially when guiding young children through big transitions.
Clairvoyaging is now a fiscally sponsored project of Fractured Atlas, a 501(c)(3) charity, so any donations are now tax deductible. If you’d like to support our projects that aim to foster understanding for diverse spiritual belief systems, visit www.clairvoyaging.com/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lauren (00:02):
Hey guys, it's just me and Frank.
Today we are chatting about allthe things that come with
making big moves.
I'm Lauren Leon.
Frank (00:09):
And I am the man who will fight for your honor.
Lauren (00:16):
We are a married couple learning how to develop our own
intuition, and this is episode74 of claire voyaging.
Wayfeather media presentsclaire voyaging.
Frank (00:45):
Oh, my sweet puppies.
Lauren (00:47):
I'm going to have that song in my head.
Frank (00:49):
It's another one All day.
It's another, one, another, one, another, one Another one.
Oh boy, how's it going guys?
Lauren (00:59):
Hey, friends, we've got a little different episode today
, friends, we've got a littledifferent episode today.
We don't have a guest becausewe've got a lot of things going
on in our lives and we're doingbig moves.
Frank (01:13):
Let's not make it sound like we don't have anything.
We've got content on backloghere, but it's just time for a
check-in, that's all.
Lauren (01:21):
Yeah.
Frank (01:21):
You know, that's where we're at.
Right now is check-in time.
Lauren (01:24):
Yeah, for a check-in, that's all.
Yeah, you know, that's wherewe're at right now is check-in
time.
Yeah, we've been talking a lotabout the potential of our move.
My mom was listening to ourpodcast and she's like you guys
are moving right.
Sorry, mom.
Which which brings me to myfirst point.
Frank (01:43):
Is your first point that we talk to our listeners more
than our own family?
Lauren (01:50):
That could be it, but also I'm realizing all the
things that I'm not committingto, or that.
I've been.
I've been like hesitating tocommit to because part of this,
okay, so we're talking about ourmove, because we're sharing our
(02:12):
, our journey.
This has all been a journey.
This podcast is we're takingyou along with us for this, this
ride and all the things thatwe're experiencing along the way
, and I I've been realizing thatthere's certain things, when it
comes to like, oh, thissolidifies the decision.
The more I talk about it, orthe more things that I say for
(02:39):
example, our son's preschool Iwas like, oh, is it time to tell
them?
it's like we're moving preschool, that we're moving, yeah we're
moving in a month and everylittle step along the way I'm
like, oh, this is triggering myfears and my oh no, you're doing
(03:00):
stuff and you're like.
Frank (03:01):
Suddenly you're like oh no, there's no take backs.
Lauren (03:03):
Yeah, oh man, yeah, okay , yeah, it's a really
interesting you think la stuffand you're like suddenly you're
like oh no, there's no takebacks yeah, oh man, yeah, okay,
yeah, it's a really interesting.
You think lauren and I talk toeach other more.
Frank (03:10):
We talk to each other non-stop, but we do save things
for the, the podcast.
Lauren (03:14):
Sometimes literally a few minutes ago I was, lauren
started talking to me aboutprobably this and I said save it
save it, go write it down yeahbut, yeah, that's, that's
something that I'm realizing,that, um, I do, or that this
particular situation has beenbringing up for me, and it's
(03:40):
it's like this okay, well, if Ido this next thing, that
solidifies it even further,which I know I'm going to do,
but it's like this one, likereleasing one thing at a time,
and that's my like fear, it'sall fear of the unknown, fear of
(04:02):
making the wrong choice, of theunknown fear of making the
wrong choice.
Frank (04:10):
Yeah, in preparation for this episode, I pulled three
tarot cards.
Lauren (04:12):
Did you?
Frank (04:13):
And this very much.
Don't look at my notes and thisvery much relates to the first
card I pulled.
Lauren (04:18):
Okay.
Frank (04:19):
Let's talk about the reverse ace of pentacles real
quick.
Lauren (04:23):
Okay.
Frank (04:24):
You know, as usual we source Dr Elliot Adam for our
also known as Elliot Oraclebecause of his positive spin on
the cards and my distillationthat it came down to was the
note that I wrote down, which iswhich is procrastination is the
(04:45):
hurdle to manifestationprocrastination is the hurdle
well, I mean, it's a hurdle toto manifestation absolutely
shall I explain?
Yeah, go on think about this,all the things that, okay, let's
not just talk about the move,but obviously we're talking
about this in context to themove.
Lauren (05:04):
Well, and I'm hoping that, like our situation, is
relatable for anyone looking tomake a change, because it is
scary and that's the wholeconversation.
Frank (05:15):
Today's secret topic is making changes, yeah, and like
what it's about, especially whenit's something that we want.
Like what it's about,especially when it's something
that we want.
So, when it comes to this, likespecifically what I'm talking
about is, you know, when there'ssomething that you we've spent
so much time in the in thewoo-woo community talking about
manifesting manifesting ourwants and manifesting our needs
(05:36):
and all this stuff and then whenit actually starts happening,
we have the gall to get like anervous tummy ache about it yeah
like literally, like what thehell?
how are we ever going tomanifest stuff?
How are we ever going to makebig changes in our lives that
we've been setting up?
We've talked on the show aboutneeding to make space if, if we
(06:00):
know what we want, we don't knowhow we're going to get there.
Uh, from, from manifestingthings but, then we but then we
make space for it, right, yeah,and then what?
Now the thing is here and thething comes and we're going to
be nervous about it.
Yeah, and that's the otherthing.
We've started pulling tarotcards with our kids, which is
actually very funny because itworks just as well.
(06:23):
I don't know.
We always say, okay, ask yourspirit guides and pull a card.
Yeah, and then we pull a cardand we're like, oh, holy shit,
it worked.
That's a crazy thing to say.
Lauren (06:34):
Yeah, like, oh, that fully relates to what you're
talking about.
Yeah, and they each have theirown deck, by the way.
Yeah, jean has a pink one.
Frank (06:44):
Of course she does.
Lauren (06:46):
It has a couple of keywords on it.
And then Lyndon has.
We got him the cheapest deckbecause he's three years old and
he throws cards aroundeverywhere.
Frank (06:55):
I think I bought it from Timu pre-tariff and before I
started to try to make morepurchases intentionally.
Lauren (07:03):
I swear it was like $1.50.
Yeah.
Frank (07:05):
It's a good deck, actually it's fine, it's Rider.
Waite, it's just that it has,anyway.
Lauren (07:09):
Anyway, yeah, yeah.
Frank (07:10):
Anyway, listen Don't shop at Timu.
Lauren (07:12):
We were all pulling tarot cards the other day.
We were like, let's do this.
Jean was super into it.
Frank (07:25):
So she pulled the six of swords reversed right and the
big thing with that is that justbecause something is
uncomfortable doesn't mean it'sthe wrong thing to do all the
time totally, and that that thatit could just mean that growing
and changing is sometimes alittle uncomfortable yes and you
have to think about that incontext of like manifesting and
making big moves for yourself,or big moves like literally,
(07:46):
like we are.
Is that like, just because it'sgoing to be a little
uncomfortable doesn't mean it'sthe wrong thing to do?
You just got to get in thatzone of like all right, okay,
for example, maybe this isn'tthe best example, but when I was
really, when I was having a lotof anxiety, I didn't have the
tools to work, work with it andI didn't want to go on an
(08:08):
anti-anxiety medication.
And I did, and I finallydecided well, I'm miserable.
Now, like, what am I going todo?
Like be a different kind ofmiserable?
Trying something new is betterthan trying nothing.
So, or trying something new isbetter than like just staying in
the misery that you'recomfortable with.
Right, yes, you can findcomfort in misery.
(08:29):
What the hell is that all about?
yeah so you know the thing I'mlike.
All right, you know what I'mgonna.
As far as the medication goes,I'm gonna treat my body like a,
like a beaker, and like thisneil de kras tyson that once
said that, like he doesn't dolike psychedelics and stuff
because he says our brainsalready hardly work.
Lauren (08:48):
You know he's like I don't want to throw in another,
like you know, variable yeah butsame thing once if something's
not working, it's time to likeembrace the variable and it's
time to like allow forspontaneous, unplanned change,
sometimes even if it's and orplan to change, and to be okay
(09:08):
with it yeah you're not going tobe able to account for every
single thing that happens alongthe way, and the journey is part
of the fun and, like a big part, of where growth happens yeah,
what I'm, what I'm thinking isthat, well, when you're talking
about this, the procrastinationand like getting to manifesting
and then going like, oh, we'realmost there, but wait, I think
(09:33):
I think there's like, I mean,maybe this is just me, but
there's a little bit of controlthere, of like wait, hold on
there.
Of like wait, hold on,everything is okay.
Now it's moving too fast, whichis part of you know like why I
think I'm releasing one thing ata time, as far as putting my
(09:55):
stake in the sand or whateverthe saying is well, hold on.
Frank (09:59):
No, let's figure out what the saying is, because it's not
that.
What do you mean?
Lauren (10:01):
my stake in the third, putting a stake in the ground
and I just googled it because Icouldn't think of the term and
it's making a firm commitmentand that's what.
Well, that's why I've beenslowly like doing one thing at a
time, because there is somekind of like.
It's like I don't want to loseall control of everything, or
(10:24):
like I've told too many thingsat once and now it's a runaway
train or something.
Frank (10:32):
But isn't the train running in the direction that
you want it?
Lauren (10:35):
Absolutely, so is this like just you, bottlenecking for
control.
Yes.
Frank (10:40):
Bottlenecking for control .
Lauren (10:41):
Yeah, yes.
Frank (10:43):
Maybe that should be the name of the episode.
Lauren (10:46):
I mean that, yeah, I mean, that's what I'm realizing,
that I'm doing.
Frank (10:49):
It keeps you out of the flow, though the flow state of
like like going and rolling withthe punches and seeing what's
next and stuff.
Lauren (10:55):
It's not something that I want to be doing, it's
something that I've realizedthat I am doing.
So I'm like, okay, you know Igot to make.
Now it's time to be in the flowand make more moves and make
more firm commitments.
This is again, unearthing, likemore trauma.
(11:17):
There's something to likeuprooting yourself, and I mean
your root chakra is where yoursafety and security and
belonging is, and if you're,this is the place.
This house is the place I'velived the longest of my life.
So it's like all these thingsare coming up through this
(11:39):
change, which I'm also embracing, and I was just talking to our
friend, emily Bulsick, um foranother show yesterday and she
was saying, you know, when shemoved which she moved like a
year ago, it, it, it helped herto just embrace whatever came up
.
And she was like, just allowwhatever feelings come up,
(12:00):
because that is healing on itsown.
And I really liked that tipbecause I'm like, okay, yeah,
whatever I feel, it's coming up,maybe I'm being triggered for a
reason, or I'm being triggeredbecause it's something from my
past.
It's triggering my root chakraand I'm like whoa, whoa, I feel
(12:21):
uncomfortable in this discomfort, but not that it's a bad thing,
just that it's a differentthing that I haven't experienced
for a while.
Frank (12:34):
We've never moved with our kids and that's like a whole
new experience it is kind ofinteresting because it makes me
wonder if you know when you havean upheaval, when you have a
large upheaval, even if it'ssomething that you were planning
for, if it's eliminating yourfalse sense of security, right,
(12:57):
you hold on to like the falsesense of security You're
gripping so tight to like.
Just the idea of this is whereI'm comfortable yes where you
were in reality.
Lauren (13:11):
You should be comfortable as you, anywhere you
go, especially if you're comingwith your support system, your,
your human support system right, but we just talked recently
when we were talking to BonnaWynn, remember we brought up how
I have this feeling of likeit's almost a constant state of,
unless I'm at my house with myfamily, there's this feeling of
(13:33):
like always telling myself thatI don't belong, which I'm trying
to reverse and work on.
But yeah, I mean, I've stayedin a job that wasn't right for
(13:57):
way too long.
I stayed in a relationship thatwasn't right for way too long,
because when you get comfortablein, when you know, okay, this
might not be right for me, but Iknow what it feels like, you
get comfortable in that.
Yeah, and then to make a change, like you said, and dive into
(14:18):
the unknown can be so muchscarier than staying in what you
know, even if it's not the best.
Frank (14:27):
Yeah.
Lauren (14:29):
I mean, I feel like so many people stay in something
because they're comfortable, butnot necessarily because they
are happy.
Frank (14:39):
I have a.
Can I offer a perspective?
Lauren (14:41):
Absolutely.
Frank (14:42):
This relates to the other card I pulled.
Lauren (14:45):
Great Perfect.
Frank (14:46):
This is really, this is really divine.
Lauren (14:51):
Divinely ordered conversation.
Frank (14:54):
Let's talk about justice reversed.
Lauren (14:57):
Okay.
Frank (14:58):
Okay, okay.
The justice card is the justicecard, no matter what Right it's
about, like life, like karmaand stuff like that.
Lauren (15:08):
Right.
Frank (15:08):
Yeah, but in it there's something to and this isn't.
This isn't something I read, Ijust it made me think of it
right now in this context, andthat is during big moments in
your life where you're makingbig changes or making big moves
or doing something that you knowshaking things up a little bit
(15:30):
there is and you're maybemissing that thing that you're
normally comfortable in, even ifthat thing you were comfortable
in is not a good thing, likeyou know, not good for you.
Everyone's heard the phraselife's not fair.
I effing hate it.
I hate that phrase.
Lauren (15:48):
I don't like that.
I don't like that phrase.
Frank (15:50):
But now there's a thing to it, though, because things
happen that aren't always fair.
Lauren (15:54):
Yeah.
Frank (15:55):
Right.
Things happen that aren'talways fair.
Yeah, right, um, for example,you might be.
You might be wondering ifyou're making a big change and
the thing that's going to makeyou procrastinate ace of
pentacles reversed.
The thing that's going to makeyou procrastinate is the concern
that maybe you are making achange into something worse.
Right?
Lauren (16:13):
yeah, yeah and that's like that's always the concern
what if it's worse than this?
Frank (16:18):
But nothing.
You know, if we're here on aspiritual level to learn and
grow, nothing is worse than notgiving yourself a situation to
grow in.
You might in your case, itmight be beneficial to find
comfort in the challenge, maybethe challenge itself is you're
(16:38):
like, oh, I'm in growth space,like this is something I'm
having a hard time with rightnow and something I'm not sure
of, and the future is undefinedand I can't see past this date,
or I can't see past this event.
Right, yeah, you're like oh,I'm in uncharted territory, this
is growth space, this is wherethe magic happens.
Right, yeah, you're like, oh,I'm in, I'm in uncharted
(16:59):
territory.
Lauren (16:59):
This is growth space.
Frank (16:59):
This is where the magic happens.
Right, this is where the magichappens.
This is back to the the yourbody is a beaker conversation.
Lauren (17:06):
Yeah.
Frank (17:06):
Of like oh wow, this is very fun.
Now there's no wrong or rightand things that happen.
From this point on, ifsomething goes wrong, it's
probably not my fault becauseI've done all the thinking, that
I'm going to do all thepre-planning and I'm not
suggesting you out there be anirresponsible but which?
Lauren (17:20):
which wait?
You just mentioned where themagic happens, that that's the.
I just pulled, like two daysago, the two of swords which is
did the.
Frank (17:30):
The magic comes in the in between and I said finally, you
got it, not me frank's alwaysgetting that one.
The magic comes in thein-between.
That's the growth space, right?
So, yeah, sure, life might notbe fair all the time, but when
life's not fair, what it's doingis presenting you a challenge,
and without those challenges,how the hell are you gonna grow
(17:52):
Like?
That's the thing that makes youstronger, that's the thing that
makes you better, that's thething that makes you stronger,
that makes that's the thing thatmakes you better.
That's the thing that shows youif nothing, what you don't want
right, right.
So like you can't like be, youcan't take blame or feel bad
when you roll the dice itdoesn't land in your favor, you
just.
You just pick up and you shiftdirections again, you say, okay,
(18:13):
it wasn't that, let's dosomething else yeah nothing is
ever unless you're playing likerussian roulette.
Lauren (18:19):
Nothing is ever so final that you can't make an
adjustment yeah right yeah, andthat's like a big lesson that I
have learned over time and amcurrently learning now, and I
think part of it is, you know,the well everyone learns this,
no one's.
Frank (18:40):
I mean, there's maybe that guy in high school here,
like god, you're so cool, likenothing phases you, you know,
you guarantee you he's livingunder a bridge right now and
it's okay, but like, but youknow those people where you're
like, oh wow, you really areunfazed by like a devastating
upheaval yeah like that personwas always meant to be an
archetype, right yeah and youjust have to embrace some of
(19:03):
that, that vibe the vibe the,the archetype vibe I think part
of it, too, is like the stakesare higher because, because we
have kids and we're going,you're gonna change schools and
you're going to live in adifferent area.
Lauren (19:20):
And part of that is me projecting onto my kids going
are you going to be okay?
Not that I would say that tothem in their face, but my brain
is going they're going to befine, right, because that's my
own fear.
Elliot Adam (19:38):
Going like is, am I making the right choice?
Lauren (19:41):
for them?
Or 15 years from now, are theygoing to look back on that move
that we made, that they werelike?
I resent you for that, yeahthat's when everything went
wrong moving to beautiful sandiego?
Yeah, no, how dare you well,what happened to you?
Frank (20:00):
why?
Why'd you come to the meetingtoday?
Well, when I was seven, myparents moved to an extremely
gentrified, beautiful town.
Lauren (20:09):
That's when it all went wrong and they prepared me
mentally, emotionally andspiritually for the whole thing.
Frank (20:19):
And my parents talked about it so much.
Elliot Adam (20:23):
They made me so comfortable.
Frank (20:24):
They made me call tarot cards.
We'll see about that.
Lauren (20:28):
I know, yeah, we'll see.
Frank (20:29):
But yeah, the projecting is a thing, and also that's you
projecting on your that's shadowwork right there.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
So that's you projecting onyour that's the that's shadow
work right there.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Like you, I mean, you did growup in a situation where you're
you know nothing felt quitecomfortable, nothing felt quite
safe.
You had moments of safety,moments of comfort, you know
(20:50):
periods, short ones, but on thewhole you didn't know.
Well my well, my, that's myearly childhood.
Yeah, that's what I'm talkingabout.
Yeah, yeah, and you'reprojecting onto our early
childhood kids, right?
Lauren (21:02):
things became well established and very comfortable
for many years.
Frank (21:06):
By the time I turned like five, six yeah, okay, yeah, but
but yeah, I mean, our kids arein the sweet spot.
They're three and seven, so yepyeah so I'm like we're in that
window my babies are you okaywhen I'm also talking to my
inner baby?
Lauren (21:22):
yeah, are you okay, lauren?
Frank (21:25):
yeah, you don't want them to.
You don't want them to grow uplike, feeling like they've had
the rug pulled out from underthem yeah so we to put a period
in the kid conversation and, asyou've spoken to people about
this as well, because Lauren'schecked in, she's very concerned
about this Kids are adaptableand like it's not like we're
moving.
You know there's kids that growup in military families and
(21:45):
they're fine, they're fine.
I mean, you know they're okay,they're fine, they're great.
You know, and that's like youjust adapt and there's new
conditions and and everyone'salways living under the
conditions they live in rightnow and they will grow up and
they will want somethingdifferent and that's okay yeah
but this is one move, man it'salso just kind of an important
(22:11):
part of adapting yeah you knowthere is something to kind of
giving pushing your kids alittle bit with a little bit of.
It's not even adversity, but achange that helps them grow, in
a way, the beaker, the beakermake sure, for ourselves and for
(22:41):
them, that we show that there'sthis magic portal of change,
where that is a cool place to be, and that you learn from it and
you grow in it and you moveforward yeah it's a cool place
to be, otherwise everything'stoo scary.
You never make any changes, soI have a question.
The doctor is in Wait you'rethe doctor.
I guess.
No, I was going to become thedoctor for a second.
Lauren (23:04):
Okay doctor me, doctor me, doctor me.
Is this bringing up anythingfor you, or are you just like
cool adventure time?
Adventure time, that's how ourthree-year-old says stuff.
We went to Island's last nightand he went it's Island's time,
that's how our three-year-oldsays stuff.
We went to Island's last nightand he went it's Island's time.
Frank (23:20):
He came out of the bathroom the day before that and
he was like I'm back baby.
I don't know where he'slearning this shit.
It's not from me.
It's very funny.
Lauren (23:28):
It's not from anyone.
He is such a character.
Frank (23:32):
Anyway, is it bringing up stuff for me?
Yeah, I don't know how todefine it as clearly as you have
mine.
There's always two narrativesgoing on in my head, and it's
the one where I like I knowexactly what to tell myself and
I'm listening to that version.
And then I know exactly what.
Someone who is full of doubtit's almost like a, like a
(23:53):
imaginary third party, imaginarythird party Someone who's
casting doubt on a move is alsosaying and I just like live in
the center and I wake up in themorning and I'm somewhere on
that spectrum and I have toforcefully get myself into the
right mental space sometimes.
So the perspectives are dude,all the stuff that we've been
talking about.
Lauren (24:13):
Yeah.
Frank (24:14):
This is a magical time we are.
We've done as much planning andand making the situation
comfortable for our kids as muchas possible.
You know, I'm always.
I'm worried about the kids too,of course.
And and then there's anotherhalf saying you live in a
beautiful town right now.
What are you looking for?
Oh, the grass is always greener, isn't it?
yeah and yeah, and there is that, there is that voice too, and
(24:35):
then like, oh you, oh, you knowyou're, you're, so you know you.
You have a podcast.
You're talking about yourspirituality all the time.
Well, shouldn't you just becomfortable where you are?
And it's like dude, shut thefront door, man, suck a bag of
trash, frank.
But then I'm also on the otherside.
So, yeah, I mean, that's allthere.
(24:56):
But the one thing that I doI'll give myself credit for is
that, regardless of what's goingon in my head, I'm still
driving forward.
Yeah, like I don't.
I'm not looking to slow down,I'm looking to make all my plans
move forward.
And I hear those voices, yeah,but I'm still going.
(25:16):
Voices, yeah, but I'm, I'mstill going.
And in my mind, in my mind, bymoving forward and having my
actions, prefer, um, the betterhalf of me, the better, the
better side of the argument thatthat it will win and then
eventually, the other guy's justgonna go away yeah he'll.
Lauren (25:35):
Meditation is good, he'll start talking about
something else, I'm sure.
But he always has, he alwayshas what I keep remembering when
I go back to that doubt of likewho do you, why do you think
you're so so much better thanlike who do you think you are
moving away?
You're like this town is so bad, or whatever.
What I remember is that it's abeautiful town.
Frank (25:58):
It's a beautiful town, adorable school, adorable school
, some really great people here.
Lauren (26:03):
Yeah, we live by this beautiful mountain.
There's a lot of amazing thingsthat people come here for.
Frank (26:09):
Yeah, this is.
This is some people'sShangri-La.
Lauren (26:12):
However, I hate that word.
Frank (26:15):
Do you hate Shangri-La?
Lauren (26:17):
I don't think I've put much thought into that word.
Frank (26:19):
Shangri-La.
I don't even know what it is.
Lauren (26:21):
It's like an ideal place to be, isn't it?
Frank (26:26):
I don't know the etymology.
Lauren (26:29):
Well, while we're looking up, no, I made you lose
your point.
Frank (26:31):
Don't lose your point.
Lauren (26:32):
No, I remember it, shangri-la.
We need a researcher yeah, Afictional, remote, beautiful and
idyllic place often used todescribe a utopia or a paradise.
Frank (26:49):
It's from a James Hilton's Lost Horizon.
Lauren (26:51):
This is some people's Shangri-La, it's true.
However, we've lived here for12 years now and we've kind of
outgrown the we've.
We've like it feels very boxedin and I feel like we've taken,
we've done what we can with thisplace and now it's time to try
(27:14):
something else, because theboredom and isolation that we
feel, no-transcript.
I feel like we'll just continueto get worse if we stayed.
Frank (27:26):
Yeah, well, you know, then then you settle in, it's
again you're just settling into.
We're trying to make a movebefore we get too comfortable
with the discomfort.
I stayed at a job once foreight years and like, and I
didn't like it but I kept hopingit would be better.
And and it was such a thingwhere, like, I kept hoping that
(27:49):
it was going to get better and Ikept doing extra work, I kept
putting in extra work to try andmake it better.
Lauren (27:54):
Yeah, and then, and for a while it would be better and
you'd be like oh it's actually,this is actually pretty cool.
And same with my job.
It was like this is fine, Fine.
And then it would be like, ohno, this is terrible, this is
very toxic, this is horrible.
Well, it would be fine again.
Frank (28:09):
You can make little pockets of better conditions in
whatever discomfort you'reexperiencing and experiencing,
but nothing will ever reallychange the context, right?
Lauren (28:19):
Yeah.
Frank (28:20):
And, and boy oh boy, I'm trying to speak in generalities.
And boy oh boy, I'm trying tospeak in generalities.
I hope this is working.
I hope this isn't just a bigepisode of me talking about
moving, but you get what I mean.
Like there's a pocket, right,there's a pocket in your
discomfort, where there's apocket of your, where you've
that, you've made comfortable inthe discomfort, you're okay
with this level of discomfort,yeah.
But what if it's better?
What if you know?
(28:48):
And and I'm about to ourprocrastination let's say it is
a job or a relationship.
What are you doing?
Lauren (28:51):
get on grinder, he's out there okay he's waiting for you
check out zillow.
Frank (29:01):
It might be better open up.
Indeed, you know what, don't goin If you're here, maybe not
indeed Hinged.
Hinge.
Well, she's pretending like shedoesn't have three accounts on
there Unreal.
Lauren (29:11):
Unhinged.
Frank (29:12):
You're on unhinged.
Lauren (29:15):
Yes, I'm creating my own app.
I'm creating my own app.
It's called unhinged and it'swhere I find people like me and
sign up for my account on onlyfarts.
Frank (29:27):
It's good.
Oh no, why did another fartjoke?
Lauren (29:35):
ends the podcast and we're done no yeah no, but yes,
you can speak in generalities.
However, I think the idea ofmoving past something is it's
scary and also necessary.
It's been relatable my entirelife.
(29:57):
So, yeah, what's the third cardthat you pulled?
Frank (30:02):
That's it Um.
I the third one was the onethat Gene pulled the other night
, but you know what I'd like todo.
I'd like to grab my deck.
I'll be right back.
Lauren (30:12):
Oh, unstructured time.
You know what's funny?
What's so funny about my andFrank's style is that he is so
much more structured than I am,so he always wants a plan and
I'm like I don't know.
He's like did you writeanything for our episode?
(30:34):
No, and then I, and then Iwrite it 30 seconds before we
start recording and I say that'sgood.
And Frank, if he is in charge,he is writing a full script.
So this is funny because he'sgoing off script right now and
grabbing his tarot deck.
Frank (30:55):
You see him going off script.
Yeah, we never have a script.
Lauren (31:00):
Well, when you have an episode, that is just your
episode.
Frank (31:03):
Oh, I got to script the hell out of it.
That's my brain.
Lauren (31:06):
I know I said we're very different.
Frank (31:10):
I have the Tarot Original 1909 deck here.
Who releases this?
It's not the full big size.
I got tiny little powerfulhands, but they are tiny.
This is the.
This is made by Los Garibay BO,I don't know.
They make other stuff too, andI have Elliot Adams' book.
Of course I bought this.
This is not sponsored.
It's called Fearless Tarot.
Fearless Tarot, that's right.
(31:31):
You can't see Fearless Tarot byElliot Adams.
How to give a positive readingin any situation.
Dare to pull any card.
Lauren (31:39):
He really is fantastic at making a positive spin on any
card.
Even last night he was likethis is the bleakest card in the
deck.
Frank (31:51):
What do you want to ask right now?
How about you know?
Everyone's always talking aboutthe collective, the collective
this, the collective that?
First of all, I believe thereare many collectives.
Second of all, I think we're acollective Our podcasts and
listeners.
Lauren (32:03):
Yeah, dude, hell yeah.
So this is for our collective,our podcast and listeners.
Yeah, dude, hell yeah.
So this is for our collective.
Frank (32:08):
Yeah, if you're hearing this today, this is for us, and
it's about doing that thing thatwe're afraid to do but we kind
of know we need to and makingsure we don't make it harder
than it needs to be.
Lauren (32:19):
Okay.
Frank (32:20):
So, and what is it?
What are we looking at?
How beautiful is that.
Lauren (32:25):
The Ace of Cups.
You got it Upright, okay Areyou going to pull up, elliot?
Yeah.
Frank (32:31):
I was going to reference the book.
Lauren (32:33):
But it's kind of more fun if we Oops.
Frank (32:35):
Through the magic of editing, we'll make this fast.
Lauren (32:37):
Yeah, so this is what we do we pull a card, and this is
fun because we're giving you atrue example of how we pull
tarot cards.
We don't know all the cards atall, but Elliot does.
Frank (32:50):
Crank it, hi, I'm Dr.
Elliot Adam (32:52):
Elliot Adam.
What's today's card of the day,which is the Ace of Cups?
Frank (32:55):
Now, like all, aces.
Elliot Adam (32:56):
This card represents giving birth to new
conditions or new experiences inyour life and because it's a
cups card, it usually indicatesthat there's a renewal in the
realm of emotions or feelings.
For you at this time, the aceof cups, simply put, represents
love, and you can see how loveis being offered as a gift by
this divine hand coming from thecloud.
It's overflowing and you canalso see the dove, which
(33:19):
represents spirit far above thecup, which is also causing the
cup to overflow and replenish.
The pond below the pondrepresents you and your source,
and so sometimes this card comesup when it's time for you to
renew yourself by plugging intowhat makes your spirit feel
renewed, by plugging into whatmakes you feel the most love and
(33:40):
the most joy.
Frank (33:41):
So when this card is coming up, it's really telling
you to let love be the answer,to read a lot more.
How about that?
Lauren (33:47):
Look at that.
Frank (33:49):
You cut off his own plug.
Lauren (33:50):
To read a lot more or to schedule a session with Elliot,
visit elliotoraclecom.
Frank (33:55):
That's actually exactly it.
All right.
So I opened the book.
I didn't read anything, but itmade me remember one more thing
here when you are moving forwardauthentically and with your
best intentions, you cannot beafraid of of flexing your own
power to make change right, andit's going to be uncomfortable,
but that's where we grow andalso what there's no, there's no
(34:18):
option other than to moveforward through your life,
guided by your own principlesand what you're about.
So if you're doing anything butthat, you're probably kind of
like that weird discomfort,comfortable, where you need to
make a change.
So let that discomfort be theguide that you reference, let it
(34:40):
be your compass that youreference for which direction to
move in.
The last thing you want to dois be comfortable all the time.
We're here to learn, we're hereto grow.
Make some changes and use yourprinciples to fucking do the
thing, man, do it.
Lauren (34:57):
Make the big moves.
Make the big move.
It's moving, time it's movingtime.
It's actually not for anothermonth at least, but we are in
moving time.
Frank (35:09):
Yeah.
Lauren (35:09):
Do the thing, make the moves.
We love you.
Frank (35:13):
We love you.
Lauren (35:14):
And we did it all for the glory of love.
Frank (35:21):
Octave, Wish us luck.
I said sorry.
Wish us luck.
You to chat with us.
(35:41):
Claire Voyaging is a fiscallysponsored project of Fractured
Atlas, a 501c3 charity.
Make a tax-deductible donationto support our mission to foster
understanding, respect andcuriosity for diverse spiritual
belief systems.
Claire Voyaging is a productionof Wayfeather Media.
Hey guys, it's just me and Frank.
Today we are chatting about allthe things that come with
making big moves.
I'm Lauren Leon.
Frank (00:09):
And I am the man who will fight for your honor.
Lauren (00:16):
We are a married couple learning how to develop our own
intuition, and this is episode74 of claire voyaging.
Wayfeather media presentsclaire voyaging.
Frank (00:45):
Oh, my sweet puppies.
Lauren (00:47):
I'm going to have that song in my head.
Frank (00:49):
It's another one All day.
It's another, one, another, one, another, one Another one.
Oh boy, how's it going guys?
Lauren (00:59):
Hey, friends, we've got a little different episode today
, friends, we've got a littledifferent episode today.
We don't have a guest becausewe've got a lot of things going
on in our lives and we're doingbig moves.
Frank (01:13):
Let's not make it sound like we don't have anything.
We've got content on backloghere, but it's just time for a
check-in, that's all.
Lauren (01:21):
Yeah.
Frank (01:21):
You know, that's where we're at.
Right now is check-in time.
Lauren (01:24):
Yeah, for a check-in, that's all.
Yeah, you know, that's wherewe're at right now is check-in
time.
Yeah, we've been talking a lotabout the potential of our move.
My mom was listening to ourpodcast and she's like you guys
are moving right.
Sorry, mom.
Which which brings me to myfirst point.
Frank (01:43):
Is your first point that we talk to our listeners more
than our own family?
Lauren (01:50):
That could be it, but also I'm realizing all the
things that I'm not committingto, or that.
I've been.
I've been like hesitating tocommit to because part of this,
okay, so we're talking about ourmove, because we're sharing our
(02:12):
, our journey.
This has all been a journey.
This podcast is we're takingyou along with us for this, this
ride and all the things thatwe're experiencing along the way
, and I I've been realizing thatthere's certain things, when it
comes to like, oh, thissolidifies the decision.
The more I talk about it, orthe more things that I say for
(02:39):
example, our son's preschool Iwas like, oh, is it time to tell
them?
it's like we're moving preschool, that we're moving, yeah we're
moving in a month and everylittle step along the way I'm
like, oh, this is triggering myfears and my oh no, you're doing
(03:00):
stuff and you're like.
Frank (03:01):
Suddenly you're like oh no, there's no take backs.
Lauren (03:03):
Yeah, oh man, yeah, okay , yeah, it's a really
interesting you think la stuffand you're like suddenly you're
like oh no, there's no takebacks yeah, oh man, yeah, okay,
yeah, it's a really interesting.
You think lauren and I talk toeach other more.
Frank (03:10):
We talk to each other non-stop, but we do save things
for the, the podcast.
Lauren (03:14):
Sometimes literally a few minutes ago I was, lauren
started talking to me aboutprobably this and I said save it
save it, go write it down yeahbut, yeah, that's, that's
something that I'm realizing,that, um, I do, or that this
particular situation has beenbringing up for me, and it's
(03:40):
it's like this okay, well, if Ido this next thing, that
solidifies it even further,which I know I'm going to do,
but it's like this one, likereleasing one thing at a time,
and that's my like fear, it'sall fear of the unknown, fear of
(04:02):
making the wrong choice, of theunknown fear of making the
wrong choice.
Frank (04:10):
Yeah, in preparation for this episode, I pulled three
tarot cards.
Lauren (04:12):
Did you?
Frank (04:13):
And this very much.
Don't look at my notes and thisvery much relates to the first
card I pulled.
Lauren (04:18):
Okay.
Frank (04:19):
Let's talk about the reverse ace of pentacles real
quick.
Lauren (04:23):
Okay.
Frank (04:24):
You know, as usual we source Dr Elliot Adam for our
also known as Elliot Oraclebecause of his positive spin on
the cards and my distillationthat it came down to was the
note that I wrote down, which iswhich is procrastination is the
(04:45):
hurdle to manifestationprocrastination is the hurdle
well, I mean, it's a hurdle toto manifestation absolutely
shall I explain?
Yeah, go on think about this,all the things that, okay, let's
not just talk about the move,but obviously we're talking
about this in context to themove.
Lauren (05:04):
Well, and I'm hoping that, like our situation, is
relatable for anyone looking tomake a change, because it is
scary and that's the wholeconversation.
Frank (05:15):
Today's secret topic is making changes, yeah, and like
what it's about, especially whenit's something that we want.
Like what it's about,especially when it's something
that we want.
So, when it comes to this, likespecifically what I'm talking
about is, you know, when there'ssomething that you we've spent
so much time in the in thewoo-woo community talking about
manifesting manifesting ourwants and manifesting our needs
(05:36):
and all this stuff and then whenit actually starts happening,
we have the gall to get like anervous tummy ache about it yeah
like literally, like what thehell?
how are we ever going tomanifest stuff?
How are we ever going to makebig changes in our lives that
we've been setting up?
We've talked on the show aboutneeding to make space if, if we
(06:00):
know what we want, we don't knowhow we're going to get there.
Uh, from, from manifestingthings but, then we but then we
make space for it, right, yeah,and then what?
Now the thing is here and thething comes and we're going to
be nervous about it.
Yeah, and that's the otherthing.
We've started pulling tarotcards with our kids, which is
actually very funny because itworks just as well.
(06:23):
I don't know.
We always say, okay, ask yourspirit guides and pull a card.
Yeah, and then we pull a cardand we're like, oh, holy shit,
it worked.
That's a crazy thing to say.
Lauren (06:34):
Yeah, like, oh, that fully relates to what you're
talking about.
Yeah, and they each have theirown deck, by the way.
Yeah, jean has a pink one.
Frank (06:44):
Of course she does.
Lauren (06:46):
It has a couple of keywords on it.
And then Lyndon has.
We got him the cheapest deckbecause he's three years old and
he throws cards aroundeverywhere.
Frank (06:55):
I think I bought it from Timu pre-tariff and before I
started to try to make morepurchases intentionally.
Lauren (07:03):
I swear it was like $1.50.
Yeah.
Frank (07:05):
It's a good deck, actually it's fine, it's Rider.
Waite, it's just that it has,anyway.
Lauren (07:09):
Anyway, yeah, yeah.
Frank (07:10):
Anyway, listen Don't shop at Timu.
Lauren (07:12):
We were all pulling tarot cards the other day.
We were like, let's do this.
Jean was super into it.
Frank (07:25):
So she pulled the six of swords reversed right and the
big thing with that is that justbecause something is
uncomfortable doesn't mean it'sthe wrong thing to do all the
time totally, and that that thatit could just mean that growing
and changing is sometimes alittle uncomfortable yes and you
have to think about that incontext of like manifesting and
making big moves for yourself,or big moves like literally,
(07:46):
like we are.
Is that like, just because it'sgoing to be a little
uncomfortable doesn't mean it'sthe wrong thing to do?
You just got to get in thatzone of like all right, okay,
for example, maybe this isn'tthe best example, but when I was
really, when I was having a lotof anxiety, I didn't have the
tools to work, work with it andI didn't want to go on an
(08:08):
anti-anxiety medication.
And I did, and I finallydecided well, I'm miserable.
Now, like, what am I going todo?
Like be a different kind ofmiserable?
Trying something new is betterthan trying nothing.
So, or trying something new isbetter than like just staying in
the misery that you'recomfortable with.
Right, yes, you can findcomfort in misery.
(08:29):
What the hell is that all about?
yeah so you know the thing I'mlike.
All right, you know what I'mgonna.
As far as the medication goes,I'm gonna treat my body like a,
like a beaker, and like thisneil de kras tyson that once
said that, like he doesn't dolike psychedelics and stuff
because he says our brainsalready hardly work.
Lauren (08:48):
You know he's like I don't want to throw in another,
like you know, variable yeah butsame thing once if something's
not working, it's time to likeembrace the variable and it's
time to like allow forspontaneous, unplanned change,
sometimes even if it's and orplan to change, and to be okay
(09:08):
with it yeah you're not going tobe able to account for every
single thing that happens alongthe way, and the journey is part
of the fun and, like a big part, of where growth happens yeah,
what I'm, what I'm thinking isthat, well, when you're talking
about this, the procrastinationand like getting to manifesting
and then going like, oh, we'realmost there, but wait, I think
(09:33):
I think there's like, I mean,maybe this is just me, but
there's a little bit of controlthere, of like wait, hold on
there.
Of like wait, hold on,everything is okay.
Now it's moving too fast, whichis part of you know like why I
think I'm releasing one thing ata time, as far as putting my
(09:55):
stake in the sand or whateverthe saying is well, hold on.
Frank (09:59):
No, let's figure out what the saying is, because it's not
that.
What do you mean?
Lauren (10:01):
my stake in the third, putting a stake in the ground
and I just googled it because Icouldn't think of the term and
it's making a firm commitmentand that's what.
Well, that's why I've beenslowly like doing one thing at a
time, because there is somekind of like.
It's like I don't want to loseall control of everything, or
(10:24):
like I've told too many thingsat once and now it's a runaway
train or something.
Frank (10:32):
But isn't the train running in the direction that
you want it?
Lauren (10:35):
Absolutely, so is this like just you, bottlenecking for
control.
Yes.
Frank (10:40):
Bottlenecking for control .
Lauren (10:41):
Yeah, yes.
Frank (10:43):
Maybe that should be the name of the episode.
Lauren (10:46):
I mean that, yeah, I mean, that's what I'm realizing,
that I'm doing.
Frank (10:49):
It keeps you out of the flow, though the flow state of
like like going and rolling withthe punches and seeing what's
next and stuff.
Lauren (10:55):
It's not something that I want to be doing, it's
something that I've realizedthat I am doing.
So I'm like, okay, you know Igot to make.
Now it's time to be in the flowand make more moves and make
more firm commitments.
This is again, unearthing, likemore trauma.
(11:17):
There's something to likeuprooting yourself, and I mean
your root chakra is where yoursafety and security and
belonging is, and if you're,this is the place.
This house is the place I'velived the longest of my life.
So it's like all these thingsare coming up through this
(11:39):
change, which I'm also embracing, and I was just talking to our
friend, emily Bulsick, um foranother show yesterday and she
was saying, you know, when shemoved which she moved like a
year ago, it, it, it helped herto just embrace whatever came up
.
And she was like, just allowwhatever feelings come up,
(12:00):
because that is healing on itsown.
And I really liked that tipbecause I'm like, okay, yeah,
whatever I feel, it's coming up,maybe I'm being triggered for a
reason, or I'm being triggeredbecause it's something from my
past.
It's triggering my root chakraand I'm like whoa, whoa, I feel
(12:21):
uncomfortable in this discomfort, but not that it's a bad thing,
just that it's a differentthing that I haven't experienced
for a while.
Frank (12:34):
We've never moved with our kids and that's like a whole
new experience it is kind ofinteresting because it makes me
wonder if you know when you havean upheaval, when you have a
large upheaval, even if it'ssomething that you were planning
for, if it's eliminating yourfalse sense of security, right,
(12:57):
you hold on to like the falsesense of security You're
gripping so tight to like.
Just the idea of this is whereI'm comfortable yes where you
were in reality.
Lauren (13:11):
You should be comfortable as you, anywhere you
go, especially if you're comingwith your support system, your,
your human support system right, but we just talked recently
when we were talking to BonnaWynn, remember we brought up how
I have this feeling of likeit's almost a constant state of,
unless I'm at my house with myfamily, there's this feeling of
(13:33):
like always telling myself thatI don't belong, which I'm trying
to reverse and work on.
But yeah, I mean, I've stayedin a job that wasn't right for
(13:57):
way too long.
I stayed in a relationship thatwasn't right for way too long,
because when you get comfortablein, when you know, okay, this
might not be right for me, but Iknow what it feels like, you
get comfortable in that.
Yeah, and then to make a change, like you said, and dive into
(14:18):
the unknown can be so muchscarier than staying in what you
know, even if it's not the best.
Frank (14:27):
Yeah.
Lauren (14:29):
I mean, I feel like so many people stay in something
because they're comfortable, butnot necessarily because they
are happy.
Frank (14:39):
I have a.
Can I offer a perspective?
Lauren (14:41):
Absolutely.
Frank (14:42):
This relates to the other card I pulled.
Lauren (14:45):
Great Perfect.
Frank (14:46):
This is really, this is really divine.
Lauren (14:51):
Divinely ordered conversation.
Frank (14:54):
Let's talk about justice reversed.
Lauren (14:57):
Okay.
Frank (14:58):
Okay, okay.
The justice card is the justicecard, no matter what Right it's
about, like life, like karmaand stuff like that.
Lauren (15:08):
Right.
Frank (15:08):
Yeah, but in it there's something to and this isn't.
This isn't something I read, Ijust it made me think of it
right now in this context, andthat is during big moments in
your life where you're makingbig changes or making big moves
or doing something that you knowshaking things up a little bit
(15:30):
there is and you're maybemissing that thing that you're
normally comfortable in, even ifthat thing you were comfortable
in is not a good thing, likeyou know, not good for you.
Everyone's heard the phraselife's not fair.
I effing hate it.
I hate that phrase.
Lauren (15:48):
I don't like that.
I don't like that phrase.
Frank (15:50):
But now there's a thing to it, though, because things
happen that aren't always fair.
Lauren (15:54):
Yeah.
Frank (15:55):
Right.
Things happen that aren'talways fair.
Yeah, right, um, for example,you might be.
You might be wondering ifyou're making a big change and
the thing that's going to makeyou procrastinate ace of
pentacles reversed.
The thing that's going to makeyou procrastinate is the concern
that maybe you are making achange into something worse.
Right?
Lauren (16:13):
yeah, yeah and that's like that's always the concern
what if it's worse than this?
Frank (16:18):
But nothing.
You know, if we're here on aspiritual level to learn and
grow, nothing is worse than notgiving yourself a situation to
grow in.
You might in your case, itmight be beneficial to find
comfort in the challenge, maybethe challenge itself is you're
(16:38):
like, oh, I'm in growth space,like this is something I'm
having a hard time with rightnow and something I'm not sure
of, and the future is undefinedand I can't see past this date,
or I can't see past this event.
Right, yeah, you're like oh,I'm in uncharted territory, this
is growth space, this is wherethe magic happens.
Right, yeah, you're like, oh,I'm in, I'm in uncharted
(16:59):
territory.
Lauren (16:59):
This is growth space.
Frank (16:59):
This is where the magic happens.
Right, this is where the magichappens.
This is back to the the yourbody is a beaker conversation.
Lauren (17:06):
Yeah.
Frank (17:06):
Of like oh wow, this is very fun.
Now there's no wrong or rightand things that happen.
From this point on, ifsomething goes wrong, it's
probably not my fault becauseI've done all the thinking, that
I'm going to do all thepre-planning and I'm not
suggesting you out there be anirresponsible but which?
Lauren (17:20):
which wait?
You just mentioned where themagic happens, that that's the.
I just pulled, like two daysago, the two of swords which is
did the.
Frank (17:30):
The magic comes in the in between and I said finally, you
got it, not me frank's alwaysgetting that one.
The magic comes in thein-between.
That's the growth space, right?
So, yeah, sure, life might notbe fair all the time, but when
life's not fair, what it's doingis presenting you a challenge,
and without those challenges,how the hell are you gonna grow
(17:52):
Like?
That's the thing that makes youstronger, that's the thing that
makes you better, that's thething that makes you stronger,
that makes that's the thing thatmakes you better.
That's the thing that shows youif nothing, what you don't want
right, right.
So like you can't like be, youcan't take blame or feel bad
when you roll the dice itdoesn't land in your favor, you
just.
You just pick up and you shiftdirections again, you say, okay,
(18:13):
it wasn't that, let's dosomething else yeah nothing is
ever unless you're playing likerussian roulette.
Lauren (18:19):
Nothing is ever so final that you can't make an
adjustment yeah right yeah, andthat's like a big lesson that I
have learned over time and amcurrently learning now, and I
think part of it is, you know,the well everyone learns this,
no one's.
Frank (18:40):
I mean, there's maybe that guy in high school here,
like god, you're so cool, likenothing phases you, you know,
you guarantee you he's livingunder a bridge right now and
it's okay, but like, but youknow those people where you're
like, oh wow, you really areunfazed by like a devastating
upheaval yeah like that personwas always meant to be an
archetype, right yeah and youjust have to embrace some of
(19:03):
that, that vibe the vibe the,the archetype vibe I think part
of it, too, is like the stakesare higher because, because we
have kids and we're going,you're gonna change schools and
you're going to live in adifferent area.
Lauren (19:20):
And part of that is me projecting onto my kids going
are you going to be okay?
Not that I would say that tothem in their face, but my brain
is going they're going to befine, right, because that's my
own fear.
Elliot Adam (19:38):
Going like is, am I making the right choice?
Lauren (19:41):
for them?
Or 15 years from now, are theygoing to look back on that move
that we made, that they werelike?
I resent you for that, yeahthat's when everything went
wrong moving to beautiful sandiego?
Yeah, no, how dare you well,what happened to you?
Frank (20:00):
why?
Why'd you come to the meetingtoday?
Well, when I was seven, myparents moved to an extremely
gentrified, beautiful town.
Lauren (20:09):
That's when it all went wrong and they prepared me
mentally, emotionally andspiritually for the whole thing.
Frank (20:19):
And my parents talked about it so much.
Elliot Adam (20:23):
They made me so comfortable.
Frank (20:24):
They made me call tarot cards.
We'll see about that.
Lauren (20:28):
I know, yeah, we'll see.
Frank (20:29):
But yeah, the projecting is a thing, and also that's you
projecting on your that's shadowwork right there.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
So that's you projecting onyour that's the that's shadow
work right there.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Like you, I mean, you did growup in a situation where you're
you know nothing felt quitecomfortable, nothing felt quite
safe.
You had moments of safety,moments of comfort, you know
(20:50):
periods, short ones, but on thewhole you didn't know.
Well my well, my, that's myearly childhood.
Yeah, that's what I'm talkingabout.
Yeah, yeah, and you'reprojecting onto our early
childhood kids, right?
Lauren (21:02):
things became well established and very comfortable
for many years.
Frank (21:06):
By the time I turned like five, six yeah, okay, yeah, but
but yeah, I mean, our kids arein the sweet spot.
They're three and seven, so yepyeah so I'm like we're in that
window my babies are you okaywhen I'm also talking to my
inner baby?
Lauren (21:22):
yeah, are you okay, lauren?
Frank (21:25):
yeah, you don't want them to.
You don't want them to grow uplike, feeling like they've had
the rug pulled out from underthem yeah so we to put a period
in the kid conversation and, asyou've spoken to people about
this as well, because Lauren'schecked in, she's very concerned
about this Kids are adaptableand like it's not like we're
moving.
You know there's kids that growup in military families and
(21:45):
they're fine, they're fine.
I mean, you know they're okay,they're fine, they're great.
You know, and that's like youjust adapt and there's new
conditions and and everyone'salways living under the
conditions they live in rightnow and they will grow up and
they will want somethingdifferent and that's okay yeah
but this is one move, man it'salso just kind of an important
(22:11):
part of adapting yeah you knowthere is something to kind of
giving pushing your kids alittle bit with a little bit of.
It's not even adversity, but achange that helps them grow, in
a way, the beaker, the beakermake sure, for ourselves and for
(22:41):
them, that we show that there'sthis magic portal of change,
where that is a cool place to be, and that you learn from it and
you grow in it and you moveforward yeah it's a cool place
to be, otherwise everything'stoo scary.
You never make any changes, soI have a question.
The doctor is in Wait you'rethe doctor.
I guess.
No, I was going to become thedoctor for a second.
Lauren (23:04):
Okay doctor me, doctor me, doctor me.
Is this bringing up anythingfor you, or are you just like
cool adventure time?
Adventure time, that's how ourthree-year-old says stuff.
We went to Island's last nightand he went it's Island's time,
that's how our three-year-oldsays stuff.
We went to Island's last nightand he went it's Island's time.
Frank (23:20):
He came out of the bathroom the day before that and
he was like I'm back baby.
I don't know where he'slearning this shit.
It's not from me.
It's very funny.
Lauren (23:28):
It's not from anyone.
He is such a character.
Frank (23:32):
Anyway, is it bringing up stuff for me?
Yeah, I don't know how todefine it as clearly as you have
mine.
There's always two narrativesgoing on in my head, and it's
the one where I like I knowexactly what to tell myself and
I'm listening to that version.
And then I know exactly what.
Someone who is full of doubtit's almost like a, like a
(23:53):
imaginary third party, imaginarythird party Someone who's
casting doubt on a move is alsosaying and I just like live in
the center and I wake up in themorning and I'm somewhere on
that spectrum and I have toforcefully get myself into the
right mental space sometimes.
So the perspectives are dude,all the stuff that we've been
talking about.
Lauren (24:13):
Yeah.
Frank (24:14):
This is a magical time we are.
We've done as much planning andand making the situation
comfortable for our kids as muchas possible.
You know, I'm always.
I'm worried about the kids too,of course.
And and then there's anotherhalf saying you live in a
beautiful town right now.
What are you looking for?
Oh, the grass is always greener, isn't it?
yeah and yeah, and there is that, there is that voice too, and
(24:35):
then like, oh you, oh, you knowyou're, you're, so you know you.
You have a podcast.
You're talking about yourspirituality all the time.
Well, shouldn't you just becomfortable where you are?
And it's like dude, shut thefront door, man, suck a bag of
trash, frank.
But then I'm also on the otherside.
So, yeah, I mean, that's allthere.
(24:56):
But the one thing that I doI'll give myself credit for is
that, regardless of what's goingon in my head, I'm still
driving forward.
Yeah, like I don't.
I'm not looking to slow down,I'm looking to make all my plans
move forward.
And I hear those voices, yeah,but I'm still going.
(25:16):
Voices, yeah, but I'm, I'mstill going.
And in my mind, in my mind, bymoving forward and having my
actions, prefer, um, the betterhalf of me, the better, the
better side of the argument thatthat it will win and then
eventually, the other guy's justgonna go away yeah he'll.
Lauren (25:35):
Meditation is good, he'll start talking about
something else, I'm sure.
But he always has, he alwayshas what I keep remembering when
I go back to that doubt of likewho do you, why do you think
you're so so much better thanlike who do you think you are
moving away?
You're like this town is so bad, or whatever.
What I remember is that it's abeautiful town.
Frank (25:58):
It's a beautiful town, adorable school, adorable school
, some really great people here.
Lauren (26:03):
Yeah, we live by this beautiful mountain.
There's a lot of amazing thingsthat people come here for.
Frank (26:09):
Yeah, this is.
This is some people'sShangri-La.
Lauren (26:12):
However, I hate that word.
Frank (26:15):
Do you hate Shangri-La?
Lauren (26:17):
I don't think I've put much thought into that word.
Frank (26:19):
Shangri-La.
I don't even know what it is.
Lauren (26:21):
It's like an ideal place to be, isn't it?
Frank (26:26):
I don't know the etymology.
Lauren (26:29):
Well, while we're looking up, no, I made you lose
your point.
Frank (26:31):
Don't lose your point.
Lauren (26:32):
No, I remember it, shangri-la.
We need a researcher yeah, Afictional, remote, beautiful and
idyllic place often used todescribe a utopia or a paradise.
Frank (26:49):
It's from a James Hilton's Lost Horizon.
Lauren (26:51):
This is some people's Shangri-La, it's true.
However, we've lived here for12 years now and we've kind of
outgrown the we've.
We've like it feels very boxedin and I feel like we've taken,
we've done what we can with thisplace and now it's time to try
(27:14):
something else, because theboredom and isolation that we
feel, no-transcript.
I feel like we'll just continueto get worse if we stayed.
Frank (27:26):
Yeah, well, you know, then then you settle in, it's
again you're just settling into.
We're trying to make a movebefore we get too comfortable
with the discomfort.
I stayed at a job once foreight years and like, and I
didn't like it but I kept hopingit would be better.
And and it was such a thingwhere, like, I kept hoping that
(27:49):
it was going to get better and Ikept doing extra work, I kept
putting in extra work to try andmake it better.
Lauren (27:54):
Yeah, and then, and for a while it would be better and
you'd be like oh it's actually,this is actually pretty cool.
And same with my job.
It was like this is fine, Fine.
And then it would be like, ohno, this is terrible, this is
very toxic, this is horrible.
Well, it would be fine again.
Frank (28:09):
You can make little pockets of better conditions in
whatever discomfort you'reexperiencing and experiencing,
but nothing will ever reallychange the context, right?
Lauren (28:19):
Yeah.
Frank (28:20):
And, and boy oh boy, I'm trying to speak in generalities.
And boy oh boy, I'm trying tospeak in generalities.
I hope this is working.
I hope this isn't just a bigepisode of me talking about
moving, but you get what I mean.
Like there's a pocket, right,there's a pocket in your
discomfort, where there's apocket of your, where you've
that, you've made comfortable inthe discomfort, you're okay
with this level of discomfort,yeah.
But what if it's better?
What if you know?
(28:48):
And and I'm about to ourprocrastination let's say it is
a job or a relationship.
What are you doing?
Lauren (28:51):
get on grinder, he's out there okay he's waiting for you
check out zillow.
Frank (29:01):
It might be better open up.
Indeed, you know what, don't goin If you're here, maybe not
indeed Hinged.
Hinge.
Well, she's pretending like shedoesn't have three accounts on
there Unreal.
Lauren (29:11):
Unhinged.
Frank (29:12):
You're on unhinged.
Lauren (29:15):
Yes, I'm creating my own app.
I'm creating my own app.
It's called unhinged and it'swhere I find people like me and
sign up for my account on onlyfarts.
Frank (29:27):
It's good.
Oh no, why did another fartjoke?
Lauren (29:35):
ends the podcast and we're done no yeah no, but yes,
you can speak in generalities.
However, I think the idea ofmoving past something is it's
scary and also necessary.
It's been relatable my entirelife.
(29:57):
So, yeah, what's the third cardthat you pulled?
Frank (30:02):
That's it Um.
I the third one was the onethat Gene pulled the other night
, but you know what I'd like todo.
I'd like to grab my deck.
I'll be right back.
Lauren (30:12):
Oh, unstructured time.
You know what's funny?
What's so funny about my andFrank's style is that he is so
much more structured than I am,so he always wants a plan and
I'm like I don't know.
He's like did you writeanything for our episode?
(30:34):
No, and then I, and then Iwrite it 30 seconds before we
start recording and I say that'sgood.
And Frank, if he is in charge,he is writing a full script.
So this is funny because he'sgoing off script right now and
grabbing his tarot deck.
Frank (30:55):
You see him going off script.
Yeah, we never have a script.
Lauren (31:00):
Well, when you have an episode, that is just your
episode.
Frank (31:03):
Oh, I got to script the hell out of it.
That's my brain.
Lauren (31:06):
I know I said we're very different.
Frank (31:10):
I have the Tarot Original 1909 deck here.
Who releases this?
It's not the full big size.
I got tiny little powerfulhands, but they are tiny.
This is the.
This is made by Los Garibay BO,I don't know.
They make other stuff too, andI have Elliot Adams' book.
Of course I bought this.
This is not sponsored.
It's called Fearless Tarot.
Fearless Tarot, that's right.
(31:31):
You can't see Fearless Tarot byElliot Adams.
How to give a positive readingin any situation.
Dare to pull any card.
Lauren (31:39):
He really is fantastic at making a positive spin on any
card.
Even last night he was likethis is the bleakest card in the
deck.
Frank (31:51):
What do you want to ask right now?
How about you know?
Everyone's always talking aboutthe collective, the collective
this, the collective that?
First of all, I believe thereare many collectives.
Second of all, I think we're acollective Our podcasts and
listeners.
Lauren (32:03):
Yeah, dude, hell yeah.
So this is for our collective,our podcast and listeners.
Yeah, dude, hell yeah.
So this is for our collective.
Frank (32:08):
Yeah, if you're hearing this today, this is for us, and
it's about doing that thing thatwe're afraid to do but we kind
of know we need to and makingsure we don't make it harder
than it needs to be.
Lauren (32:19):
Okay.
Frank (32:20):
So, and what is it?
What are we looking at?
How beautiful is that.
Lauren (32:25):
The Ace of Cups.
You got it Upright, okay Areyou going to pull up, elliot?
Yeah.
Frank (32:31):
I was going to reference the book.
Lauren (32:33):
But it's kind of more fun if we Oops.
Frank (32:35):
Through the magic of editing, we'll make this fast.
Lauren (32:37):
Yeah, so this is what we do we pull a card, and this is
fun because we're giving you atrue example of how we pull
tarot cards.
We don't know all the cards atall, but Elliot does.
Frank (32:50):
Crank it, hi, I'm Dr.
Elliot Adam (32:52):
Elliot Adam.
What's today's card of the day,which is the Ace of Cups?
Frank (32:55):
Now, like all, aces.
Elliot Adam (32:56):
This card represents giving birth to new
conditions or new experiences inyour life and because it's a
cups card, it usually indicatesthat there's a renewal in the
realm of emotions or feelings.
For you at this time, the aceof cups, simply put, represents
love, and you can see how loveis being offered as a gift by
this divine hand coming from thecloud.
It's overflowing and you canalso see the dove, which
(33:19):
represents spirit far above thecup, which is also causing the
cup to overflow and replenish.
The pond below the pondrepresents you and your source,
and so sometimes this card comesup when it's time for you to
renew yourself by plugging intowhat makes your spirit feel
renewed, by plugging into whatmakes you feel the most love and
(33:40):
the most joy.
Frank (33:41):
So when this card is coming up, it's really telling
you to let love be the answer,to read a lot more.
How about that?
Lauren (33:47):
Look at that.
Frank (33:49):
You cut off his own plug.
Lauren (33:50):
To read a lot more or to schedule a session with Elliot,
visit elliotoraclecom.
Frank (33:55):
That's actually exactly it.
All right.
So I opened the book.
I didn't read anything, but itmade me remember one more thing
here when you are moving forwardauthentically and with your
best intentions, you cannot beafraid of of flexing your own
power to make change right, andit's going to be uncomfortable,
but that's where we grow andalso what there's no, there's no
(34:18):
option other than to moveforward through your life,
guided by your own principlesand what you're about.
So if you're doing anything butthat, you're probably kind of
like that weird discomfort,comfortable, where you need to
make a change.
So let that discomfort be theguide that you reference, let it
(34:40):
be your compass that youreference for which direction to
move in.
The last thing you want to dois be comfortable all the time.
We're here to learn, we're hereto grow.
Make some changes and use yourprinciples to fucking do the
thing, man, do it.
Lauren (34:57):
Make the big moves.
Make the big move.
It's moving, time it's movingtime.
It's actually not for anothermonth at least, but we are in
moving time.
Frank (35:09):
Yeah.
Lauren (35:09):
Do the thing, make the moves.
We love you.
Frank (35:13):
We love you.
Lauren (35:14):
And we did it all for the glory of love.
Frank (35:21):
Octave, Wish us luck.
I said sorry.
Wish us luck.
You to chat with us.
(35:41):
Claire Voyaging is a fiscallysponsored project of Fractured
Atlas, a 501c3 charity.
Make a tax-deductible donationto support our mission to foster
understanding, respect andcuriosity for diverse spiritual
belief systems.
Claire Voyaging is a productionof Wayfeather Media.
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