075: Conversations with a Spiritual Trailblazer // with Elaine Ireland // Part 1

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Psychic medium and tarot master Elaine Ireland has spent over sixty years walking the intuitive path, beginning in rural Texas where spiritual sensitivity was simply a way of life. Born in 1944, her gifts were nurtured early by grandparents attuned to nature and subtle energies. 

In this powerful conversation, Elaine reflects on her first reading at 17, the evolution of her career, and the deep ethics that have shaped her work. She speaks to the sacred exchange of energy in readings, sharing why sometimes asking for non-monetary "payment" helps preserve integrity and balance. Elaine’s wisdom extends into the realm of ancestral trauma and spiritual sovereignty, offering empowering insight into how fear—when met with love—can become our greatest teacher.

With warmth, wit, and the clarity of someone who’s seen it all, Elaine paints a vivid portrait of how the intuitive arts have changed over the decades.

To learn more about Elaine or to work with her:

Visit: www.elaineirelandtarotmaster.com

Clairvoyaging is now a fiscally sponsored project of Fractured Atlas, a 501(c)(3) charity, so any donations are now tax deductible. If you’d like to support our projects that aim to foster understanding for diverse spiritual belief systems, visit www.clairvoyaging.com/support. 

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Episode Transcript

Lauren (00:01):
Hello soul babies, trying to make sense of this
three-dimensional construct, Inthis episode, Frank and I talked
to the incredible ElaineIreland, a psychic medium, tarot
reader and mentor for so manyin the spiritual community.
This is part one of ourconversation because Elaine has
a rich and fascinating life andbackstory.
I'm Lauren Leon.

Frank (00:22):
And I'm a menace to society.

Lauren (00:28):
Oh wow.
We are a married couplelearning how to develop our own
intuition, and this is episode75 of Claire Voyaging.
Wayfeather Media presentsclaire voyaging what's going on?

(01:00):
Hello everybody out there inthe digital world.

Frank (01:04):
In the sea voyaging.

Lauren (01:07):
Voyaging.

Frank (01:08):
Clarely.

Lauren (01:10):
Voyaging through the Clares Hello.

Frank (01:15):
Have we helped you God?
I hope so.

Lauren (01:19):
Or you're just like waiting for the help to come,
yeah.

Frank (01:23):
Any day.
Now they're going to be like,oh, we're all psychic now and
we're like, yeah, I had threepickles for lunch yesterday.
What?
And that's our podcast now.
True story.

Lauren (01:34):
Pickle talk with Frank.

Frank (01:35):
Yeah, this is my new show .

Lauren (01:39):
Oh my God.
Hey, I have to say thank you tosome people for donating to our
documentary campaign.
No, really, yeah, they did it.
Kevin, kevin, rachel.

Frank (01:52):
R-r-r-r-Rachel.

Lauren (01:53):
Anonymous Anonymous.
Thank you, guys.

Frank (01:57):
I always love a good anonymous.

Lauren (01:59):
Yes, thank you so much for donating to our documentary
fundraising campaign.
We have less than a month to goand we are so grateful for
donating to our documentaryfundraising campaign.
We have less than a month to goand we are so grateful for your
support.
Every little drop helps.
Times are tough, but weappreciate your support times
are weird this.
Yeah, it really truly is.
But I feel like thisdocumentary is, um, I feel like

(02:21):
this documentary is going to behelpful for people kind of
venturing into this community.
So you know, we got to give ita go.
And if you'd like to contribute, go to.
And if you'd like to contribute, go to and click on the link
for the 501c3.

(02:42):
It's tax deductible.
Get some rewards, get a shoutout, do the thing.

Frank (02:48):
Get it.

Lauren (02:49):
And thank you.

Frank (02:50):
Wake up and get it Rise and grind.
Rise and grind To our podcastand documentary.

Lauren (02:58):
And let's talk pickles.

Frank (03:01):
Pickle talk, episode one.

Lauren (03:04):
Are you a sweet, a sweet , what are they called?

Frank (03:08):
oh my god, it's gonna kill me there's only two things
that we need dill it's dill,dill, pickle, dill, pickle
spears, or I'll make anexception for the uh, the caper
camp, as we call it bread andbutter.

Lauren (03:22):
That's what I was thinking, that's nasty bread and
butter.

Frank (03:23):
That's what I was thinking of.

Lauren (03:24):
Yeah, it's nasty Bread and butter pickles.

Frank (03:25):
I'm sorry if you like that, but.

Lauren (03:27):
Those are just kind of weird.

Frank (03:29):
If you like the bread and butter pickles, I need you to
either write in to me right nowand tell me why, or stop
listening.

Lauren (03:35):
You're going to get some hate mail, you know I hope they
come at you.
Direct your emails to Frank.
Personalize at you.
Direct your emails to Frank.
Personalize them to Frank andtell them how much you love
bread and butter pickles.

Frank (03:48):
I will dance to your hatred.
Give it to me.

Lauren (03:52):
I've made it clear what is your allegiance.
Okay, guys, elaine Ireland, canI just say she's an incredible
person.

Elaine (04:04):
Yeah.

Lauren (04:08):
This was a.
This was probably our longestconversation ever and we had to
split it into two parts becauseshe is full of stories.
Like we bring up a topic andshe's got story, story, story
like everything.

Frank (04:21):
So she's seen some things , yeah, and she shared some
things, and it's just reallycool.
So I mean, the format of aconversation is pretty casual,
but we start early on when whenshe was well, I don't want to
spoil anything, but when she wasliving abroad and coming back
to a segregated america as asensitive person.

Lauren (04:38):
Holy cannoli elaine is in her 80s, so like she's
amazing.
We heard about her from SarahReeves.

Frank (04:46):
I think didn't she train Sarah Reeves yeah.

Lauren (04:49):
Sarah was like I need some development.
So she went to Elaine andthat's why we were like, well,
now we got to talk to Elaine, wegot to hear about her story,
yeah, so, without further ado,please enjoy Elaine Ireland.

Frank (05:07):
Here it comes, let the beat drop.

Lauren (05:12):
Elaine, we're so happy to have you here.
On Claire Voyaging, this isgoing to be an awesome
conversation.
I just know it.

Elaine (05:20):
This is fun the lights are flickering.
The lights are flickering in myhouse.

Lauren (05:24):
Oh, all right, it's happening already.
They're ready to go.
All right, she's got the powerwe love.
I was telling you I know you'vegot some good stories.
We love a good backstory, sohow did you get into doing this
work that you've been doing fora long time now?
Can you tell us about that?

Elaine (05:45):
I cheated.
I burst myself into a familythat did it.

Lauren (05:49):
Okay, all right.

Elaine (05:51):
So I can honestly say I grew up in a household that was
aware.
Now they did not do readings athome, but the psychic ability
was there and so long agocountry people were very, very
in tune and still are, I'm sure,but in a different way with

(06:11):
animals, their neighbors, youknow that sort of thing.
My grandparents owned a lot ofproperty and businesses in a
small town called Pendleton,texas, which is still there, but
barely.
But when they were alive thetown was a thriving one street
town, but thriving, I mean.
There was even a barbershop anda leather person and my

(06:32):
grandfather had a huge store andthey sold things up front.
He sold what he called hissaddlery stuff in the back.
But everybody was in tune witheverybody.
You know my grandmother, when Iwas just a kid, was in tune
with everybody.
You know my grandmother when Iwas just a kid, my grandmother
knew when her best friend was introuble and I was.
I really was a kid.
We were military but we were inbetween assignments.

(06:55):
So I was out at granny's andshe grabbed me out of bed real
quick and she said where we weregoing and literally, instead of
taking the car, we jumped onthe back of a horse, which was
very common, you know, in thatarea.
I'm talking country here.
And we galloped about a half amile down the road and got to

(07:18):
her best friend's back door and,sure enough, she was laying on
the floor.
She'd had a heart attack.
Oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
They just had this ability, thisconnection.
They listened to nature.
You know you talk about typicaltree huggers.
That was it.
Yeah.
They planted by the moon, theyplanted by the date, they

(07:40):
planted by.
You know, their arthritis toldthem when it was going to rain.
I mean they listened toeverything and I guess I chose
that family because I knew thateventually that would change
culturally but my family wouldnot change.

(08:01):
Yeah, wow.
And that was a big.
Yeah, wow, and that was a big.
That was a big thing.
Now, add the fact that mymother married a military man
who took us to Europe.
I was born in 44, right afterthe war ending, kind of thing.
So I was like five-ish, firstgrade I spent about three months

(08:24):
in El Paso, texas, while wewere waiting for his final
orders.
Then we went to Italy becausehe was Italian, spoke fluently.
He was one of the last, one of16 children and grew up with
Italian.
So he was chosen to go to Italyfor a particular assignment,
which was to rebuild twochurches in Livorno, italy.

(08:44):
I was dumped right in themiddle of gypsy world.
Oh man yeah.

Frank (08:53):
Right, this is already so interesting because I literally
so I don't mean to interrupt,but I just wanted to say, like I
talked to my parents thismorning and I was like, oh yeah,
we're interviewing ElaineIreland and she, like you know,
trained Sarah Ree morning.
And I was like, oh yeah, we'reinterviewing elaine ireland and
and like she, like you know,trained sarah reeves and she,
like, is very intuitive, like,and I was like I've never met
you but I I told my dad I'm likeshe's, she gives kind of like

(09:14):
gypsy vibes a little bit.
That's how I described you.

Lauren (09:18):
Oh my gosh, that's so funny yeah I love it I love it
before you even talk to her.
Yeah, and, and we were we werelove it, I love it.

Elaine (09:25):
You would tune it in before you even talked to her.
And we were in Italy when theywere rebuilding because of the
war.
Yeah, and everybody was lookingfor answers and, of course,
when you're young, you learn thelanguage, any language, quicker
.
The younger the better.
So to speak.
So I did.
I picked up and we didn't havea base.
There was no base.

(10:00):
The government literallyoperated out of what had been a
five star restaurant.
So we walked everywhere.
I mean there was.
People were living across thestreet in a bombed out building
and had reopened these hugetarps, that was their wall,
their floor was marble and theywere living.
That's how people lived there.
I mean, it was just.
I'd wake up to all of the bellson the bicycles, the people
going to work.
In the morning my mom took theneatest picture of what looked
like a parade of bicycles goingto work and they'd stop at these

(10:23):
little shops and buy loaves ofbread or cheese.
It was their lunch.
That's how they survived.
People were living on thestreets.
I mean, that was it.
We were there for a long time,came back here for not eight
months.
Went to Germany.
Now talk about a differentenvironment.
Germany didn't like Americans,so kids could not wander around

(10:46):
like we could in Italy, which Ithought was interesting, even as
a kid.
Yeah.
MPs were everywhere.
If we missed the bus, we couldtake off and walk to school, but
an MP would likely come alongand pick us up and put as many
of us as he could get in hisJeepy thing.
So it was hanging off the backand we could go to Frankfurt.

(11:09):
We were like less than an hourto Frankfurt by train for 25
cents.
Well, mps were assigned to beon the train to watch the
Americans on the train, andespecially kids, and they'd see
us come on and we'd see the MPsgoing.
But we went to the big base inFrankfurt.

(11:35):
We had a little base in Hanau.
So we went to a big base and wecould go to big movies and that
sort of thing as a group.
But there again I was with aculture of openness and my
mother could make friends withanybody.
She was just.
That was just my mom.
She never met a stranger.

(11:56):
And again, the gypsies wouldcome knocking on the door and
offer readings and that sort ofthing and mother would either
give them money or she I was outgrowing clothes very quickly
She'd give them something that Icould no longer wear, you know,
and they were most grateful andI would come home more than
once.
I came home and here was agypsy lady or two sitting just

(12:21):
having coffee with mom, notnecessarily doing readings, just
she'd found her people.
Yeah, that's funny.
That was basically it.
They found her.
So I grew up with that opennessand yet I was safe there.
Mother was safe in Europe atthat time.

(12:41):
Now we were military in Europeat that time, Now we were
military.
So we had to be careful abouthow outspoken particularly
mother and her personality wasone of the doors always open.
I've got enough food for 50people.
Come on in.
You know, she was theentertainer, she was, that was

(13:01):
just mom and but she still hadto reel it back a little bit
because of my stepdad's career.
So we had to be careful.
And then when I came back tothe United States, when I was 12
, we still had segregation.
Well, overseas there was nosegregation among kids.
We only had one building andthere was one church.

(13:23):
That was it.
Among kids, we only had onebuilding and there was one
church.
That was it.
So when we came back, mom and Ihad this talk.
She said it's going to seemstrange in the United States now
because you're not going to beable to dance with the black
boys, you're not going to beable to be friends with the
black girls.
You know, you're not, not, not,not, not, not.

Lauren (13:41):
Oh my gosh Wow.

Elaine (13:43):
Well, we had what segregation.
When I was in the 11th gradehere in the States, and during
that time I went to an all whiteschool we had the black school.
We had South Austin.
South Austin was a mix of LatinAmerican and white kids, but in
the school halls there wasstill a separation they didn't

(14:05):
date the opposite sex.
Yeah.
Whites, didn't you know that?
You had your proms andeverybody was nice, but it was
still separated.
So I was a miserable teenagerin some ways, because that was
not how I grew up.
I grew up with an open mind.
We could talk about anything,so I ran around with the theater

(14:28):
kids yeah.

Lauren (14:30):
That's where you're safe .
You're all weird.

Elaine (14:35):
You're all weird.

Lauren (14:36):
Exactly, you're very welcome.

Elaine (14:39):
And I had to be.
I know this is going to soundawful to y'all, but I had to be
careful about taking testsBecause I was a terrible
mathematician but yet I couldmake 100 on my tests.
So teachers were saying in factI had a teacher walk me.
He called me up to his deskwhen I handed him my paper and I

(15:03):
had seen him when I was takingmy test.
He was doing this.
I was going what is he doing?
And then he'd do this.
He was trying to measure thedistance between the papers to
make sure nobody cheated Right.
So when he looked at my paperhe could tell it was a

(15:25):
three-page test and he could seethat I had gotten these things
right.
And he said he said, elaine,there is no way you didn't cheat
oh no well, I was getting theanswers yeah and I've always
been a backward formula person.
Give me the answer and I canwork it backwards.

(15:47):
Uh-huh.
Right, so I even had to not makea couple of good grades, oh my
gosh.
Stay out of trouble because Iwasn't cheating.
Yeah, I had the basics for whatI needed.
And if I was taking a multiplechoice, oh, that was easy.

Lauren (16:08):
You just knew what the answer was yeah.

Elaine (16:11):
So, and there was one other girl in school and I and I
won't mention her name, but Iwill say that she went on to
become a nationally knownphotographer and she worked for
the state of Hawaii as on theirofficial photography team for
advertisement.
She was a fabulous nurse.
I mean, she really, really,when it was so hard for us women

(16:32):
to be successful, she went onto be very successful and she
was very psychic and very shewas the same way.
She had polio when she was a kid.
She could miss two months ofschool and still ace everything.
Whoa.
Well, she was another one thatwould get it.

Frank (16:51):
Can I Boy?
I could have used that.

Elaine (16:58):
I'm still not a mathematician, I'm just not yeah
same.
Me neither.

Lauren (17:05):
We're the writer types like math at a too much yeah,
I'm, I'm more the creative side.

Elaine (17:14):
Yeah, what you were gonna ask something, say
something oh no, that was it.

Frank (17:18):
I really, I really math hurt me when I was in school.
I'll just leave it at that.

Elaine (17:24):
It hurt me too, but I let it hurt me at times to get
out of trouble.
Yeah, oh, that's so funny yeah.
We had about okay, I'm not goingto say names out loud, but two,
three, four, five, five of usthat were known throughout the

(17:46):
whole school to be weird Really,and one of the guys was how do
I say this?
He was.
He could not hide the fact thathe was gay, and gay was not a
good thing.
Right.

(18:06):
In today's world, he would bewearing red satin high heels and
tights to school.

Frank (18:12):
Yeah, right, awesome.

Elaine (18:14):
Yeah, no way the way he walked the way he talked and he
tried so hard.
Oh, bless his heart, he did.
So our little group protectedhim as much as we could, and I
was amazed when he got in theArmy during the Vietnam War.
Oh, wow.
Well, it was then they werecalling.

(18:37):
Yeah, he didn't know who he wasuntil he showed up and they
really did try to assign him toan office situation so he
wouldn't be on the battlefield,because they literally were
afraid he would get shot in theback.

Lauren (18:49):
Right.

Elaine (18:51):
The five of us kind of stood out as the odd ones, but
we all had that ability in spiteof everything else.
That was going on with us andwe were a good group.
We tried to have fun witheverybody else and do everything
else, but we were just you werea theater, coven.

(19:14):
Oh, there were about 20 of usthat were the theater coven.
Yeah.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, there were.
I worked behind the scenes, Ipainted what do you call it?
Backdrops and I I could sew, soI helped with costumes and
makeup.
That was, in fact, I for awhile.
That's not I would.
I thought that's what I wouldend up doing was something in

(19:36):
entertainment.

Frank (19:36):
Yeah, that's fun, though it's fun to find your.

Lauren (19:42):
It's fun to find your tribe, especially in high school
, that's when it's fun to findyour tribe, especially in high
school, that's when it's soimportant.
Yeah, did a lot of people thinklike, oh, like elaine, she's
just, there's something weirdabout her.
Or did a lot of people knowlike I think she's psychic?

Elaine (19:55):
you know when it comes to kids and you know this.
You've probably already heardthis from several of your
clients, but, as a reminder, weare all psychic.
Right we all call it intuition.
I wish I could tell you howmany police officers I've worked
with that have said we know, weknow, but we can't prove it.

(20:18):
Here's the goal file.
Help us prove it.
I really hope and I know it tobe true at some point, and I
know it to be true in a hiddenway, in some police, in some
cities, they will have the phonenumbers of psychics on hand and
there will be a department andwe will be allowed on the scene

(20:42):
ASAP.
Wait 20 years to file a case ina cold call with black and
white pictures?
Yeah, we can do it.
Give us time, but don't expectus to do it overnight and solve
this before Mama's really sickand I'm going.
Why are you waiting?
10 years On scene.

(21:08):
Right.
But in today's world the policedepartments are almost
embarrassed.
Yeah, let the public know, inspite of the fact that we'll
ride on the back of a horse Julythe 4th weekend and try to find
a body, yeah, the back of ahorse, july the 4th weekend and
try to find a body, yeah, andthey're just, it's like.

(21:30):
It's like they don't want us tointerfere with their science.

Frank (21:33):
So, let me, let me, can I back up a little bit,
absolutely Okay.
Okay, I just want to go back tolike some of your.
I just have more questionsabout your, your early years
yeah, me too you.
So you're in, we left off,you're in high school and you
have, like your, your troop andum, I want to know, like, from

(21:55):
from there, like, what point didyou start leaning into the, the
, the, the psychic, uh, knowingand like, deciding that it was
something that was really meantfor you to, to lean into?

Elaine (22:04):
and tarot and all that, yeah, I always did to.
And tarot and all that, yeah, Ialways did.
My grandfather was a baptistpreacher, among other things.
I have to say he was more of atheologian.
He studied religion.
He didn't he.
He got his collar as a baptistonly because it was the closest
school he could go to at thetime.
Remember, we're talking countryhere yeah right, but he also

(22:27):
traveled and he studied otherreligions.
So there were all kinds ofbooks around the house open,
some of them notes, some of them.
It was very open-minded.
My grandmother was Irish bylineage, so she had a lot of
that, a different kind of energy, and they both got along really
well with what they did.

(22:48):
I always knew.
I just knew when I had to hideit.
I mean, that's, that's thedifference.
And and I know many psychicsand healers that had the same
kind of upbringing had the samekind of upbringing they they

(23:09):
could not be who, they were,where they were when they were
growing up.
Does that?
make sense yeah.
It's like my mother when I cameback, telling me you can't do
this and I can't.
Kids are all we're always.
We're all psychic.
I don't care whether you callit instincts survival, I don't

(23:37):
care you call it instinctssurvival, I don't care.
We're psychic.
We are meant to survive withmessages.
Right, we are, and and it'sinstinctive.
It's survival means many thingsin many cultures, many
different cultures, and I meanwitches got burned to the at the
stake.
They got, I mean when theyweren't even witches.
Yeah.
Whether it was men or women,right Anything they were afraid
of in history.
Look what Hitler did.
Hitler went after us too bigtime, except his astrologer he

(24:00):
loved.
His astrologer carried hereverywhere she supposedly was in
the bunker.
But, you know there arechildren.
I taught elementary school andthe first day of class you could
tell who was going to be aproblem.
Now.
I would talk to teachers thathad been doing it for 40 years

(24:21):
by that time and new people likeme coming in to the field.
I went in at a later age but weinstinctively could look around
the room and know I don't carehow well that kid's dressed, I
don't care how polite they are,they're sneaky little wickets
All the way yeah, all the way tothe ones that their parents

(24:43):
couldn't pay for a second set ofclothes if they had to.
Right yeah.
And I.
I had a kid.
His name was Timmy.
He was the sweetest kid.
He had three shirts and twopair of pants, and one pair of
blue and one pair of tinnies hiswhole entire second grade and
he was the number one intellectin the class.
Wow.

(25:04):
And so patient and so kind andso unassuming.
He just he would share whateverhe happened to have for lunch.
And yet his family had almostnothing.

Frank (25:15):
Timmy's thriving now Timmy's doing OK.

Elaine (25:18):
I kept up with he and his family all the way through
high school.
He, he would drop me.
He would drop me a Christmascard.

Frank (25:26):
No.

Elaine (25:27):
Sign it every now and then he went into the Navy and
did really well for himself.
Yes, he did Nice.
But there were other kids.
We are all instinctive, psychic, instinctive from the moment we
are born.
It's just that some of us comein with the intention of
actually providing informationvia that method.

Frank (25:47):
Yeah, right, so when did you start?
I mean, it sounds like, alongthe way you were, you were
practicing here, here and there,right, but when did you
officially start taking likeclients, or or, or?
When did you officially startLike, uh, did you do it and get
into any kind of development atany point, like, like.

Elaine (26:05):
Development came from my , my um interaction with the
immediate people around me,family members and friends of
theirs.
My first official reading for astranger was when I was 17, and
it was for the mother of afriend of mine in high school.
Wow, I was 17.
She asked my mother forpermission.

(26:25):
I hear your daughter,da-da-da-da-da, and my mother
gave permission.
Okay, so daughter,da-da-da-da-da, and my mother
gave permission.

Frank (26:30):
Okay, so word was out a little bit.

Elaine (26:33):
Yeah, you can't hide these things from other kids.
Yeah.
Kids are going to be.
If I wanted to know somethingabout another kid, I'd ask a kid
yeah, totally yeah.

Frank (26:46):
That's a great point.
Yeah, kid, yeah.

Elaine (26:47):
Totally.
Yeah, that's a great point,yeah, yeah.
And sometimes, even though theymay not know that kid except to
pass them in the hallway or seethem on the on the playground,
they some of them would come tome and say you know, so-and-so
is not feeling so good thesedays.
I can't tell you why, but maybeshe'll tell you why.
And then they'd run off.

(27:08):
But that child knew, she alreadyknew what was wrong when she?
Knew that that day and I meanshe ran like I was going to
force her to.
It's no things.
So my first professional reading, if you want to call it.
That was for the mother of afriend at 17.
Mother told that lady youcannot pay her Okay, because she

(27:33):
offered.
Yeah.
Absolutely not.
No, well, the lady brought overa cake the next day.
I'll take a cake Right, and Ididn't charge for readings until
I was in my mid-20s.

Frank (27:51):
It sounds like your mom was trying to institute a strong
ethical sense of doing this forthe right reasons.

Elaine (27:57):
Oh yeah, Absolutely.
I did a lot of readings.
Yeah.
And, like most psychics, I stilldo free readings when it's
appropriate, when we know, whensomebody calls us, whether they
can, whether they're in direstraits or really, really
hurting.
And and I'm not going to sayI'm not going to read for you if
you can't pay me.
I'm here to be of service.

(28:19):
Right yeah.
So if I can help you, what's onyour mind?
And well, what can I do?
I'll pay you when I get paid,da-da-da-da-da.
And if nothing else, I'll saypromise me.
If there are kids in the house,I'll say promise me, you'll do
something fun with the kids.
Oh yeah.
Something.

Frank (28:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Elaine (28:38):
People need to pay for Right.
If that payment is thatimportant?
they're more likely to take theinformation and use it rather
than disperse with it.
They're more likely to take theinformation and use it rather
than disperse with it.
It does.
It is a weird thing about likean.

Frank (28:53):
I don't want to call it an.
It is an exchange.

Lauren (28:57):
There's like energy exchange and someone like
requiring something or, you know, getting something from you.
It's there's like anaccountability to, it's like,
okay, well, at the very leastlike you're you're doing.

Frank (29:10):
That's so cool.
I mean, it's all it's likealmost.
This is something that this isvery in line with the things
I've been thinking about lately.
But it is very interesting thatthat idea because it is an
exchange, of you're exchangingyour energy for, for something
that someone needs, and like anythree-dimensional
representation of that exchangeof energy, makes it like hold

(29:32):
it's, it makes it feel like it'svaluable in some way yeah or
something, I don't know.
It's, it's yeah, go ahead,sorry there are two two part.

Elaine (29:40):
Two parts to that I find myself asking are thanking
people for their trust.
To me, that's a form of paymentas well.
Yeah.
It's people's trust that's hugein the psychic fair.
That is.
In the healing and psychic world.
It's very, very important andI'll thank people for their

(30:02):
trust.
To me that's a payment withinitself, but it's also I'll tell
them to do, to pass it forwardyou may not have anything right
now that you think is of value,but you do when the time comes.
If you're behind somebody inthe grocery store and they need
five dollars and you've got itto pay out their bill, then

(30:24):
quietly tuck that five yeah youknow I'll encourage people to do
that.
Do something for your kids, Gohave fun with your kids, Go take
your mom to dinner.
You know I told a young manthat not long ago and it was
it's important.
I don't care if it's Taco Bell,you know it doesn't have to be
expensive.
Go spend the day with a friendwho just needs a friend.

Frank (30:48):
That, to me, is payment yeah, yeah that's great that is
interesting that's such a.
That's great advice, just ingeneral, not to make this about
me, but I'm going through athing right now where I'm
redefining my sense of value andit's separate from like actual
financial gain in any kind ofway, and and I found that by
like releasing the chasing theactual like dollar, I feel more

(31:12):
invigorated to produce more,which is interesting.

Lauren (31:16):
We were literally just talking about this.

Frank (31:18):
Yeah.

Lauren (31:19):
Like an hour before we started talking to you, it was
like this realization that wewere both having specifically
for Frank yeah, like, yeah, the.
The chasing, like tying adollar to service, is like
energetically not, it's notworking for.

Elaine (31:40):
Frank yeah.

Lauren (31:41):
I say that in like it sounds.
It doesn't sound great orsomething, but Well.

Frank (31:47):
I mean it's just not what our society is built on Right.
So, like the, the idea, uh, Imean it's just not what our
society is built on Right.
So, like the, the idea of likelike this, like energetic
exchange being um enough, orlike asking someone to pay it
forward in a way that does notjust with pieces of paper, is
like kind of a concept that I'mI'm really I want to build on.

Lauren (32:06):
But like in the meantime , he's, he's helping me build
something for my like a kind ofa coaching, like empowerment
thing for for me, and he's soenergized by it and he's using
his like skills and talent andall that stuff and it's like
that's that right now.
That's enough.
So it's just, it's resonatingwhat you were just saying.

Frank (32:30):
Yeah, it's like trusting that reciprocity instead of
expecting it.

Elaine (32:35):
If you offer.
What I have found is, if youoffer a service, create an
outline for it, put it out there, wish it well, because it has
become an entity.
Right Wish it well.
Go back and check an entityRight.
Wish it well.
Go back and check with it everynow and then.
See what interest there hasbeen.
Check what's going oneconomically in your area, but

(32:58):
the area can be worldwide nowyeah, yeah.
So it's different than it usedto be.
We'd have business cards,da-da-da-da-da, but not a whole
lot's going to move on thatuntil July and I know you didn't
ask for a reading, but that'swhat I was getting when you were
talking.
Not a lot is going to happenwith anything new until July,

(33:21):
which includes your stuff aswell.

Frank (33:25):
Okay, we're moving in July and we've been told that.

Elaine (33:29):
New beginnings, yeah.

Frank (33:30):
We've been told that our future path has a lot to do with
, for some reason, where we are.

Elaine (33:37):
Oh, geographically Geographical.
There are psychics that dogeographical readings.
Where do I belong?
Yeah.

Frank (33:45):
Oh, wow.
This is so interesting to me,though, because, like you said,
we are a global digitalcommunity, so sometimes being
geographically in a particularplace doesn't feel like it
should be that important.

Lauren (34:04):
But it is and we're trying to get everything in
place and it's a lot of movingparts.
I think because of that, it'slike I don't know energetically.
We're supposed to not be inthis location anymore.

Elaine (34:18):
You've got a lot of concrete around you, don't you
Behind you, and it feels likeblocks of concrete, like you're
in a bunker.

Lauren (34:27):
Oh, the studio absolutely is you, is you?

Frank (34:30):
gotta get out of there oh , this, this space is a box.

Lauren (34:33):
Yeah, yeah, this is inside our garage.

Frank (34:35):
Yeah, I built I built this room inside of our garage
for the purpose of being.
This is like my creative box,um, because I didn't have a good
space for it inside.
But like I spend we spend waytoo much time in here and I'm
trying to move this into a whenwe're moving.
I want to make this a spacethat has a window.

Elaine (34:56):
Both of you need the roots on your feet Both of you
when you go look for new spaces,take your shoes off and feel
how the dirt feels.

Lauren (35:03):
Oh, that's, interesting Okay.

Elaine (35:05):
See how you're, even if you just walk on a lawn.
If you're considering buying orrenting or whatever you're
doing, it's really importantthat you have a wider space.
Okay, and yeah, you're going tohave concrete, but you got to
drive on something, right?
Yeah.
But you need something where aircan come through your space
when you open the doors, openthe windows and not feel like

(35:28):
you're in a bunker.
That doesn't mean you can't havea creative room, absolutely,
but be careful about what youconstruct it with what you're
making out of, and if you want aconcrete floor, that's fine,
but also keep in mind that themore things like that that you
have, it could possibly not onlyprotect but interfere with

(35:50):
energy.
So when you create your newstudio, if you're not
knowledgeable about feng shui,before you build it and create
it, talk with somebody aboutfeng shui and flow of energy.
It's just that wherever youmove to, you're going to be
there a long time.
This is a pretty stationary newspace for you.

Lauren (36:14):
That's good to hear.
We want to move to San Diego.
It's been this big upheavaljust because we've been in this
house for 12 years, that's hard.
Yeah, but we feel very likeagain keep talking about like
misalignment.
We feel misaligned with likethis well, you've changed area,

(36:36):
yeah, you've changed yeah youhave changed.

Elaine (36:39):
You've changed as a couple, you've changed as
individuals yeah, exactly,you've got this pyramid, this
three wall thing going when youhave couples.
You've got each other and thenyou've got the relationship.
Yeah.
You've got a pyramid always, soyou have, and the number three
is your unity, number two thingscoming together to make that

(36:59):
third, which is the relationship.
Now, what does the relationship?
Where does the relationship gofrom here?
And as you change, you're goingto find yourselves with those
holes and those spacesoccasionally, but still you come
back together and you connect.
And that base of yourrelationship will change also,
which is what's happening rightnow.

(37:20):
You just have to be sure, fengshui-wise, what you're trying to
create when you're creating.
What you're trying to createwhen you're creating, like
building your studio colors,texture, windows, freedom of
breath You've got to havesomething.
I look at musical studiossometimes and recording studios

(37:41):
and they're beautiful, butthere's no flow.

Frank (37:45):
They're made to be dead spaces, yeah.

Elaine (37:47):
Right, and I'm thinking somebody open a window and
there's no flow.
They're made to be dead spaces.
Yeah Right, and I'm thinkingsomebody open a window and
there's no we love any littlelittle bits of like helpful.

Frank (37:56):
Yeah, I mean specifically because, like the, the past
year and a half has been such aperiod of well, look what I put
on my water bottle.
It's my thing, right, the thetwo of swords there.

Elaine (38:06):
Oh, okay.

Frank (38:07):
Yeah, yeah, but I think mostly for a decision on for me
like, um, if I was going tostick with the old way of how I
was operating in the world ortry something new and and and of
course you know the two ofswords.
There's a certain element inthere about trusting even though
you don't know what's coming.

Elaine (38:29):
So the other thing about the two of swords, if I may
interrupt for just a secondteachers coming out of me here,
please do.
She's like this.
She's blindfolded.
You're covering your heart.
You're sitting down, you've gota lot of gray.
I don't know what cards you'reusing, but in the rider weight
deck you've got a lot of graywisdom, knowledge and experience
.
But if you go this way, youcan't come back here for a very

(38:52):
long time.
Yeah.
So, whatever way you go, you'regoing to stay there.
That's probably why I pickedthat up a while ago.
When you move, you've got to besure of your decision about
staying.
Now you're wanting to go to SanDiego.
I don't know why, I don't needto know why, but the reason for

(39:13):
you being there could change intwo or three years.
So, you need to make sure thateverything of a foundation can
be with you for, say, 12 yearsor more.
Yeah, yeah.
That won't change as much as youcan and we don't always have
those answers.
But just know, with the two ofswords are more yeah.
Yeah, that won't change as muchas you can and we don't always
have those answers.
But just know, with the two ofswords and you're ingraining

(39:35):
that energy by carrying it withyou all the time on your cup,
you're drinking it, you'reenergizing everything in you you
put in that cup with thatenergy.
Yeah.

Frank (39:50):
So let me know if that's bad Cause, one of the reasons I
put it on my.
I put it on my cup specificallyso that I remember to be
intentional about my, mydecisions, and make sure that
I'm moving forward with not justintention but choosing
authenticity.

Elaine (40:04):
There you go.

Frank (40:05):
Okay.

Elaine (40:05):
See, you've got it figured out.
Just know that sometimes themeanings behind all of that can
be affected and we don't realizeit.

Frank (40:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I completely agree.
I don't have any other tarotsticker on my cup because of
that.
I just wanted the reminderconstantly to choose.
What I'm concerned about now isif I'm putting myself in a
constant state of not paralysis,but of Indecision.
Because I'm putting myself in aconstant state of not paralysis
, but of Indecision, because I'mnot being indecisive.

Lauren (40:32):
Yeah.

Frank (40:33):
I'm being decisive.
I don't know.

Elaine (40:36):
Everything about that card says I'm shutting out any
influence, blindfolded, coveringyour heart, being quiet.
If you look where her elbowsare on her body, if you look at
she's crossing her heart, she'strying to block out any kind of
emotion and she's trying not tobe distracted by visionary or

(40:59):
heart energy.
She's going completely inward,which is not a bad thing, it's
just and the number two is twothings coming together to make a
what?

Frank (41:18):
there's no three on that card.
Maybe it's time to draw mysticker.
I think it might be new stickertime no, you have good
intention there.

Elaine (41:25):
I'm just drawing some attention to maybe some things
you had not realized or didn'tknow.
But I think it's a cool ideathat you've got the sticker
there.
You have that energy.
But remember, you're tellingyourself on one hand, go inside,
be quiet, but yet you're outhere Right.

Lauren (42:11):
Right, yeah, happen.
Oh, does that sound familiar?
Does that sound familiar?
I just told you the other day,like you need to, you need to do
, uh, spiritual, like somethingspiritually, mentally,
physically, every day.
Like, specifically, you need todo that, that work to the
receiving part.

Elaine (42:25):
Yes, the quiet time you have to do what she's doing.
You have to shut it down and bequiet.
Right.
And listen, rather thanconstantly getting answers.
What here?
What here?
What here?
What else can I do?
What here?
What here?
You have Asking questions.
That's marvelous, but you haveto be quiet and get the

(42:45):
information.

Frank (42:46):
That is something that I have like intuitively picked.
Well, maybe not intuitively,I'm just thinking about it, Even
if it's just one word.

Elaine (42:51):
even if it's just one word.

Frank (42:53):
Yeah, even with a podcast , I'm always in the state of
gathering information and, likeI'm a big mental guy, I like to
like read and inquire andinvestigate and stuff like that
which is part of me, and I usedto fight that a little bit more

(43:13):
than I am now, but now I'm likelearning how to use it.
But I am realizing that you canyou know what's the point of
knowledge if you're justgathering it just to spit out
facts later, like I'm trying toreally incorporate this into my
being, so like your advice of ofsaying like you need to shut it
down a little bit and really dothat work and yeah, yeah so.

Elaine (43:27):
And feel because, remember, she's got her heart
shut too.
So how do I feel?
Because that's a big messenger,our feelings are huge
messengers yeah that's theinstinctive part that we work on
with our psychic stuff is our,is our feeling?
You walk into a room and you'regoing oh this, room doesn't

(43:48):
feel good.
Right.
So it's, it's it that's part ofour, that's part of our
instinctive way of life.
Yeah, you walk into a newbusiness and you go.
I don't think I want to spendmy money here, Right.
Right yeah.
Or we all do it.
I mean, you've done it athousand times and, whether it's

(44:10):
conscious or subconscious, wejust know where we belong and
where we don't, if we willlisten to our body parts.

Frank (44:18):
That's true, I mean.
And also another thing andLauren can attest to this a big
thing that I've been aboutlately and I'm really trying to
integrate is the concept of myown spiritual sovereignty.
I like that sovereignty yeah,like knowing what I'm about
without the outside influenceand and then making having that

(44:40):
settle into my core enough sothat I can.
So it's like a muscle memory,so I don't have to think about
it so much and remember it'sjust the way I am.
So I'm trying to like reintegrate an authenticity that I
don't have to think about, thatI just instinctively know and
feel and can radiate.
You know what I mean.

Elaine (44:57):
Yeah, that's awesome Working on yourself
instinctively and not everybodydoes that that are getting
started in this field.
Regardless of what theirsubject matter is or their
curiosity, they don't realizehow much power and ability they

(45:19):
have individually.
The very fact that they'reasking the question about how to
get this better tells me thatthey're serious and that they're
at a point in their life,usually with major changes, and
they're a little bit afraid ofwhere that's going to take them.
I tell all tell some of my allof my tarot classes and and I'll
tell them you're going to losefamily and friends over this.
Yeah, yeah.
Unless you're in a very unusualculture, people will think

(45:41):
you're crazy, yeah for sure.
Banker lady, I don't care, butit all centers on how you
present yourself while you'regoing through these changes.
While you're, because it is achange.
You're talking about musclememory.
Yeah, it's a brain memory.
It's a past life I live in.

(46:01):
I believe in past lives.
Some people get to a certainage and they're just like a
light bulb turned off or on andthey're going.
I don't even know myselfanymore.
Well, sometimes it's because ofa past life and they're going.
I don't even know myselfanymore.
Well, sometimes it's because ofa past life experience.
They're getting ready to walkinto it and they're scared to
death of it.
Maybe they were one of the onesthat got drowned, burnt, you
know whatever.

(46:22):
They're scared to death foranybody to know.
I also know people who havebeen in the business and this is
a business a long time and allof a sudden it shuts off.
They can't meditate, they can'tdo the work and they can be very
well known and sometimesthey'll make themselves sick, so
to speak.
So they'll have a reason not todo the work.

(46:44):
Well, if you do a past liferegression with them
occasionally, that that isbecause, let's say, this happens
at 62.
At least one life, if not more,was taken away from them at
that age because they were thatWell.
They want to live a longer life, so they subconsciously shut

(47:07):
themselves off and they can't doit.
I know one guy that had, hefought cancer for four years.
He couldn't do any reading.
He couldn't see, he justcouldn't do it.
And when they did, he and alady out of Tulsa, Oklahoma.
She did a past life regressionfor him when she was here in

(47:28):
town to do some work.
It came out the very firstsession they had.
He was so afraid that he wouldnot be able to see his grandkids
grow up that he made himselfsick so he couldn't do the work
oh my gosh I know it works.

Frank (47:44):
Works both ways, I mean fear is oh yes so hold on, let
me, can I ask you something,because this is something that
lauren and I were talking aboutlast night, and this is a
related topic.
So you're talking about howsomeone might have died when
they were 62 and it suddenly isaffecting you know, in a past
life I mean, and it is affectingthem now, uh, in this life, at

(48:07):
this age, even though they'realive, and doing well, not
feeling bad, and doing well.
Right, and last night I wastalking to Lauren about what's
it called Ancestral TraumaTrauma, yeah, and like how we
can carry these traumas with uswithout even knowing what the

(48:29):
trauma might be.
And I was saying like I washaving a moment where I'm like,
well, that's not fair, Becausewhy are we going around carrying
around someone else's trash?
You know what I mean?
Dna.
Yeah so because I I've been toldon a handful of occasions that

(48:50):
I might be carrying somethingfrom.
You know, my grandparentsimmigrated from Cuba.
They were exiles and I've heardthat that's a big, that can be
a thing that carries a lot withit.
Yeah, and I don't blame them atall for that, and they're both
past now.
But I've been told that I mightbe carrying maybe not that

(49:11):
specifically, but somethingancestral.
I just don't know what it is.
It's always funny to me.
The question that I'm asking iswhat can we do as individuals
if we might be carrying thetrauma of the generations that
came before us?
And how do we even identifythat if we don't even know what

(49:32):
it could be?

Elaine (49:32):
you know, Well, the off the top of my head thing is
number one.
You've realized you have anancestral issue, that's a biggie
, and then you accept it.
The problem with that questionis and you and you just said it
and we don't even know what itis- yeah.

(50:12):
The first thing you do is, ifthere are any yeah, that was how
it was described at the time,but it could go even deeper.
You need to get as muchinformation about their life in
the old land as you possibly can, because they had to get on
that plane, that train, thatboat, that whatever to get out
of there for whatever reasonthey're going to take that.
And if somebody was a youngchild, like I mentioned, my
stepdad a while ago going totake that.
And if somebody was a youngchild like I mentioned my

(50:33):
stepdad a while ago he wasnumber 16 in his, oh my gosh,
that's, and the baby and theonly one born in the united
states to an italian family wowthey left sicily, they ran from
sicily yeah, yeah to.
Really bad people werecontrolling sicily at the time
yeah and they ran to america.
well, some of bad people werecontrolling Sicily at the time.

(50:54):
Yeah, and they ran to America.
Well, some of their people werealready here.
In fact, when they got tooutside of Boston, to their new
home, their three story home hadalready been built by their
relatives.

Frank (51:03):
Whoa, that's amazing.

Elaine (51:05):
Right, but those kids were like one year, two years
apart.
I mean that woman was pregnanther entire adult life.

Lauren (51:13):
That's a nightmare, I know scary, right, yeah?

Elaine (51:18):
And you can't tell me that some of his older brothers
and sisters weren't afraid thatat some point, somebody from
Italy that lived in that areawould find them and burn their
house down.
Right, even Henry talked aboutthat on occasion, the fear.
But they felt safer here thanthey did there.

(51:39):
I don't think they ever got thefull.
I don't think the kids ever gotthe full story about that.
They were just told that thingswere bad, there were bad, evil
people and they had to run andall that stuff.
I mean they left everything.
They left their businesses,they left their homes, they left
everything.
Yeah, walked away.
So that's the first thing youhave to do when you're looking

(52:01):
at ancestral trauma.
You have to get as much of thestory as you possibly can Now.
Second part of that is thespiritual side.
That's the practical side.
But the more you know aboutthat, some of that may be well,
that's never going to touch mehere.
I can respect that and you showrespect to your ancestors, but

(52:22):
it doesn't touch you.
It's not.
It's part of your DNA, it'spart of your history.
Now you make better of thesituation than they ever could
because the times are different,right, and you have.
You've grown up with time.
They wouldn't know what thatmicrophone is in front of you.

(52:44):
Right yeah.
They would have no clue.
Right, you do, which says youhave grown, and you have grown
spiritually, because you'reasking that question out of
respect.
It doesn't have to affect you,but you do have to look at it
and appreciate what they did,respect what they did, for

(53:07):
whatever reason that.
You may not get the whole story, but they gave you an
opportunity to live a certainway and as long as you're living
that to the best of yourability, then their energy was
not wasted to make you safe.
It just wasn't.
Yeah.
So, as long as you can say thankyou and mean it and continue to

(53:31):
grow on all levels that areimportant to you and your
sweetheart, that's all you haveto do.
That's all you have to do.
You don't have to be afraidanymore.
Fear is our greatest teacher,equal only to love.
Yeah, that's true.

(53:52):
Recognize what our fear is andturn it to love in its own way
and respect.
I had.
I never got to know his mothervery well, or even some of his
brothers and sisters, because hetraveled all the time we were.
We weren't there.
Had we settled in Boston, I'msure I would have spoken better
Italian, let's be honest aboutthat.

(54:15):
I would love it when he wouldtalk on the phone to his
relatives, because it was thisbeautiful language.
Yeah.
You know, and I picked up a lotwhen we were in Italy and
continue to hear it over mylifetime, but he didn't engage
with me enough.

Frank (54:30):
Yeah.

Elaine (54:30):
In Italian and I'm sorry that I didn't push him more.
I learned more Germany theother way.
But when it comes to ancestralDNA, the first step is knowledge
as much as you can get.
The second step is realizingthat fear will traumatize you,

(54:51):
if you allow it, because of whatthey did.
What is this saying aboutpaying my father's debts, or
something like that?

Frank (55:01):
I know that phrase yeah, yeah, the son will pay.

Elaine (55:03):
I can't remember.
Y'all know what I'm talkingabout.
Yeah, yeah.
And yes, in the old days, yes,that was the case.
If a father or a family owed adebt, it was their children's
responsibility.
And even today, in our legal,in some states, in our legal

(55:23):
format, the kids have to pay,whether it's tax bills or
something else.
That's different than emotionaldebt.
You killed my father, I'll killyours.
You know you burn my house down, I'll burn your house down.
That's the way a lot of issueswere settled in the old days and

(55:46):
in old countries Eye for an eyekind of thing.
Yeah.
Whether it was our fault or not.
We were five years old whenthat happened.
So you have to look at fear andturn it to love and
appreciation and respect foryour ancestors and eventually
learn from the information asmuch as you can so that it's

(56:11):
never repeated.
That's why we need to know asmuch as we can about our
ancestors, so we don't repeatwhat was considered a mistake in
that lifetime but takes a newform in this lifetime.
Does that make sense?
It does.

Frank (56:26):
Can I ask you a question real quick?
Sure, did you tap intosomething that the immigration
might not have just beenpolitical, or is that just a
general thing that you're—.

Elaine (56:38):
A lot of it was political, okay, but there were
very personal things thathappened to not only your
parents but to other relatives.
The politicians made itpersonal.
Sure, other relatives, thepoliticians made it personal.
Sure.
So, whether it was takingbelongings from them, whether it
was keeping them apart fromloved ones, whether it was not

(56:59):
giving them, say, a passport,you know what, whatever it took,
there was something verypersonal going on with with your
family.

Frank (57:07):
Yeah, I know that left, like, I think my, my, my
grandparents owned a farm orsomething in in cuba and I know
that very slowly, like friends,were disappearing in the middle
of the night around them andproperty was being uh, what's
called taken.
Yeah, but I don't know ifthere's more to it than that.

Elaine (57:27):
But I can ask there is, there is, and the more your,
your people, fought back, yourfamily fought back, they got to
a point that they, they knewthat if they didn't get out they
wouldn't live.
Yeah, they literally wererunning.

Frank (57:42):
All right Cause.
I'm trying to get to the bottomof this because I know, yeah, I
know there's something going on, I, but this brings up another
question, and that is what about?
What do people do if they don'thave access to information
about their lineage or whattheir family might have gone
through, but they're stillcarrying something that they
don't know how to identify?
Is there anything they can do?

Elaine (58:02):
Yes, there is Meditation for one thing, hypnosis for
another, talking to a very,going to a very, very, very good
medium and getting informationfrom the other side.
There's always a way to get theinformation.

Frank (58:17):
You know what I forgot about mediums?

Elaine (58:22):
How did you?

Frank (58:24):
know a few.
How did I, how did that notcome up as an option for me in
my mind just now?
They don't know.
That's so funny.

Elaine (58:30):
Because of your logic.

Lauren (58:39):
Yes, thank you, and because you've not, as as many
mediums that we've spoken to andinterviewed frank, has never
officially had a mediumshipreading I haven't, so yeah
that's why it's not like I don'tknow why I do I it.

Frank (58:50):
I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it.
I'm excited about it.
Now I have a really good reasonto.
I think that was the thing Ididn't have a really good reason
to.
It would have just been meshowing up and being like, hey,
anybody got anything.
But now I'm like, hold on.
Now I need, now, I would liketo know some stuff.
This is a.

Lauren (59:06):
What I think is so interesting about, like the way
that things used to be like whenyou used to do readings was
just like I remember you tellingme when we had a phone
conversation you were like, oh,if you had my business card, it
was just my name and phonenumber.
And if you had it, then, likeyou were given it, someone gave

(59:28):
it to you.
Like, can you talk about howthat used to be when you were
doing?
When you were given it?
Someone gave it to you Like,can you talk about how how that
used to be when you were doing?

Elaine (59:34):
when you were still fighting.

Lauren (59:36):
Yeah, yeah, like that's such an interesting.
I mean now, you know, just,it's such a contrast with, like
TikTok, live mediumship, spiritled readings and to to thinking
about.
Hello, elaine, I got your phonenumber from Nancy in town.
Can I come to your house andhave a reading?

(59:58):
You know that kind of thing.

Elaine (01:00:00):
And there were times when people did not read out of
their homes.
They had an office Right, right, brick and mortar.

Frank (01:00:08):
Yeah Well, we didn't want people to know where we lived.
Yeah, right, right.
Brick and mortar.

Elaine (01:00:11):
Yeah Well, we didn't want people to know where we
lived.
Yeah, oh yeah.
And that was it.
And you didn't dare havebusiness cards that said Tarot
on them.

Lauren (01:00:24):
Yeah, right.

Elaine (01:00:26):
She's asking about what we used to call calling cards
and you just had your name and aphone number and that was it.
Never an address, never a citythat you lived in.

Lauren (01:00:39):
Right.

Elaine (01:00:39):
That was just a pretty calling card of some sort.
In fact, before I got mypodcast I had and I was running
out of cards and I had decidedto go back to calling cards.
That's great, not because I waswanting to hide like I did
before, but because I thoughtthings were so crazy and people
had two sided cards.

(01:01:00):
Y'all would get a kick out ofmy business cards.
They're just the opposite, Iknow.
But you know those, thosethings that you point your phone
at?

Frank (01:01:12):
Oh yeah, qr code.

Elaine (01:01:14):
Yeah, that's right.
I was talking to the lady whoshe was a student and then she
became a buddy and a friend andshe's wonderful at what she does
and she said, Elaine, you gotto have a QR code.
I said, well, can I just haveElaine and a phone number and a
QR code?
No, Elaine Advertising.

Lauren (01:01:33):
Your business card is your advertisement.

Elaine (01:01:36):
Okay, so one side is black and that's the podcast
side.
Oh cool.
It's got little things that youknow sound things.
Oh yeah.
And then the other side is kindof greeny yellow and that's the
Tarot.
I'm developing another sitethat is educational Tarot.

Lauren (01:01:58):
Oh, that's, amazing Cool .

Elaine (01:01:59):
It's a teaching thing and I'm excited about both.
But my card ended up beingexactly opposite of what I
thought I was going to have.
But there was a lot of secrecyaround us and there were many,
many readers that did not havebusiness cards until probably 20
years ago and it would be.

(01:02:21):
Here's a phone number call her,call him.
This person does numerology orastrology or readings, and a lot
of times it wasn't even whatyou did, it was just the fact
that you were a psychic.
We were all grouped together,but astrology was a more common
tool that was accepted.
Right.

(01:02:42):
The word tarot covered a lot.
Palmistry was another one.
That was a game thing.
That was fun to have your palmswrit.
Yeah.
And regular card readings.
Readings, that's 52 cardsversus the 78 you know, just
just your regular play pokercards oh people read, read like,
do divination kind of stuffwith like playing cards.

(01:03:05):
Oh yeah, oh, that was that.
The tarot cards are hundredsand hundreds of years old and
those were created beforeregular playing cards, and
nobody knows exactly how.
But regular playing cards werea way of doing divination kind

(01:03:30):
of under the table.
Kind of thing.
But to be a psychic, we were allgathered together.
I don't read palms.
I still have people ask if I dopalm readings.
Maybe I've got a couple ofphone numbers.
We were doing a prettygood-sized fair in Midland Texas
, god, 30 years ago, and it wasa big fair.
It was a big fair for MidlandTexas and Julie the producer at

(01:03:54):
the time.
She loved to have everybody, oras many of us, go to dinner as
possible.
Well, sometimes that meant 30people in a restaurant.

Frank (01:04:02):
Wow.

Elaine (01:04:03):
I know Well by the time you get the readers and the
vendors.
But we had such a following inMidland we literally would have
people follow us.

Lauren (01:04:12):
Oh no.

Elaine (01:04:15):
Well, julie will have always called ahead and said I'm
bringing this many people andcould you please make sure there
are enough servers, you know,so we can all get our meals.
Anyway, she really took care ofus.
Well, one night we were waitingfor our food to be delivered
and this really not.
She was a cute young lady andshe wasn't one of our servers,
but she snuck over and she saidwho at this part of the table

(01:04:39):
does palm readings?
None of us did.
One of our really super sweetastrology readers grabbed her
hand, held it for a few minutesand she said let me see.
Well, she wasn't doing a palmreading, although she knew about

(01:04:59):
the lines of the hands, butwhat she was doing was feeling
this girl's energy and she gaveher a full reading well, hold on
.

Frank (01:05:05):
I love this idea of palmistry being like a, a sneaky
way to do a normal like psychicreading.

Elaine (01:05:13):
Right.

Frank (01:05:15):
We've also never talked to anybody that that that's
worked with with um spiritboards.
Ouija board.

Lauren (01:05:21):
Oh yeah.

Elaine (01:05:21):
Yeah.

Lauren (01:05:22):
So, do you know any spirit boards?

Frank (01:05:25):
Everyone's favorite.
No one, no one's allowed tohave tarot cards, but but Ouija
boards are in Toys R Us, yeah.

Elaine (01:05:34):
You know I went to.
I was in Oklahoma many, many,many, many, many years ago to go
to a championship rodeo thingthat a friend of mine rode in A
woman.
She's 42 years old and stillriding barrel, racing and
winning awards, oh boy.

Lauren (01:05:50):
Ouch Holy cow, I awards.
Oh boy, ouch Holy cow.

Elaine (01:05:53):
I know she was awesome and this was going to be her
last rodeo.
Of course, a lot of us thatknew her.
We just got in this caravan andwe were going to go and have a
good time.
Well, they also had one of thelargest flea markets.
One of the largest flea marketsat the rodeo was in conjunction

(01:06:13):
with a lot of other stuff goingon in kind of like the Texas
fair, the state fairs, you knowthat kind of thing.

Frank (01:06:18):
Yeah.

Elaine (01:06:18):
And they had one of the largest flea markets ever in
Oklahoma at this particularevent.
Well we're.
I mean it would have taken twodays to hit every single table
and vendor.
I mean it was huge.

Frank (01:06:33):
That's fun.

Elaine (01:06:34):
And milling around and doing our thing and I found a
Ouija board.

Frank (01:06:41):
Thank you for listening.
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(01:07:01):
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