August 7, 2025 • 57 mins
What happens when an artist's mind becomes a portal for tarot imagery? For John A. Rice, creator of the breathtaking Mindscapes Tarot deck, the answer lies in five years of dedicated artistry, spiritual growth, and a profound connection to intuition.
Discover how ancestral connections, intuitive downloads, and artistic dedication converged to create not just a tarot deck, but a window into the mysterious spaces where creativity and spirituality merge. John's story reminds us that sometimes the most powerful insights arrive when we simply quiet our overthinking minds and trust what appears.
To learn more about John or to buy the Mindscapes Tarot deck:
Clairvoyaging is now a fiscally sponsored project of Fractured Atlas, a 501(c)(3) charity, so any donations are now tax deductible. If you’d like to support our projects that aim to foster understanding for diverse spiritual belief systems, visit www.clairvoyaging.com/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello, my sweet little angels.
In today's episode we talked toJohn A Rice, author, artist and
creator of the new tarot deck,mindscapes Tarot.
We talk about tarot cards,intuition, honoring your
ancestors and the art ofcreating a tarot deck.
I'm Lauren Leon and I'm donehiding now I'm shining like I'm
(00:25):
born to be.
Wow.
We are a married couplelearning how to develop our own
intuition.
This is episode 81 of ClaireVoyaging.
We're going up, up up.
This is our moment.
Gonna be gonna be golden.
Gonna be gonna be golden.
(00:45):
Gonna be gonna be golden.
Oh, wayfeather Media presentsClaire Voyaging.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Hello puppies.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Hello sweet babies.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
How's it going today?
How about us?
We?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Me and Lauren.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
We are great, we're so good, we're permanently tired
, we're super late to Legoland,and yeah, it's okay.
Here's a new episode we'regoing to lego land today we are
our first our first time and we,when we say today, we don't
mean that we recorded this threeweeks ago, we mean today, on
release day, right after wefinished recording, I'm gonna go
(01:38):
edit this and we're going tolego land sorry, it's, late
sorry it's late.
Little baby seat of our pantsright now where we're still
adjusting.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
It's a long adjustment and that's okay.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
You know great, that's part of grace you'll
learn about grace today when Icomplain about the word that's
part of being transparent andfully open and vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I look like a trash can I'm sweating.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Did anyone know that that san diego is humid and hot?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
listen, not complaining, but boy, it's a,
it's an adjustment there's athere's a heat wave happening
right now it's more of a humidwave yeah, but, like you know, a
lot of places in in San Diegodon't have air conditioning
because they're like you don'tneed it.
This is the beach, but we weneeded it yesterday, we probably
(02:35):
need it today.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
My brow disagrees.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Our poor kids are.
They're sweating, they'resweating.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I.
We had one of those old like awindow air conditioning unit, so
I just installed it thismorning, which is one of the
reasons why we're late.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
But in their, in their room, they have the window
where it fits, so they get thespecial treatment.
They get mom and dad, get theswamp box, that's okay.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
We get to just walk into their room and say, oh my
God, it's so much cooler in herethan everywhere else.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
The kids, the dogs, they're all hanging out in the
other room.
Yeah, it's fine.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
But you know what they get to sleep, which is
that's the most important thing.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
We'll test that they're not waking up.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Hopefully, this is the first day.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
We'll see.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
But hopefully they won't wake up saying I'm so hot,
anyway, hi everyone, hey, okay,anyway, hi everyone, hey, okay.
So today's episode is with john, and we heard about john from
our friend adrian, who we met induluth at the duluth film
festival adrian's.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Adrian's the greatest thing that ever hit duluth and
she's not from there.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah we became fast friends with Adrienne.
You might remember her from our50th episode.
It was our Halloween specialand we did a tour of the
Glensheen Mansion and we learnedbefore doing that.
We quickly learned thatAdrienne has mediumistic
abilities.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
She see the ghosts.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
She see the ghosts.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
She see them real good.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
All the time, but it was just a really fun,
serendipitous thing.
Of course, nothing's acoincidence and it was great to
meet her and she was like, bythe way, my best friend John is
creating a tarot deck.
He's an artist and we were like, well, let's have him on the
(04:26):
show.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
And we finally did well, he, finally, he finally
released the deck his deck justcame out, like a few days ago
yeah and it's beautiful it's socool guys, it's so cool.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
We should really fun, are we?
Posting a link and show notesor anything of, of course, okay,
okay, okay Of course I don'tknow what, uh, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Like in the link I haven't seen where you buy it or
anything, but I don't know ifthey have photos of all the
pictures of all the um cards.
But man, oh man there are somebeaut John A Rice, mindscapes,
tarot, and you'll just be like,oh okay, yeah, this is gorgeous
(05:08):
and we're not getting kickbacksor anything, by the way, we're
just fans here.
It's very nice.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Truly Like just so fun to talk to someone who spent
so much time creating their owntarot deck.
Like what a special, cool thing.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Took them five years.
I don't want listen.
No spoilers, go listen.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, I don't want listen.
No spoilers.
Go listen.
Yeah, go check it out.
Come on, hey, oh yay.
Hey, wait, the episode's rightafter this.
Please just continue.
You know what?
Maybe just start it.
No, go ahead, you first, afteryou, after you, let's let it rip
.
Finally we get to meet you.
We're so excited about that.
(05:46):
So you made this beautifulMindscapes tarot deck which I
have right here, and can youtell us about how you got into
this?
A little backstory backgroundabout you.
Tell us about John.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Sure.
Well, a lot of people have beenasking me lately how I got
interested in tarot and, to behonest, I don't really remember.
I'm a Libra who leans Scorpio,so I've always been interested
in weird dark things ever sinceI was little, so tarot was
always sort of on my radar.
And then, around 2018, mypartner, kevin, gifted me my
(06:25):
first tarot deck, which iscalled the Wild Unknown by Kim
Kranz, and I had heard, I guesslike an old wives tale, that if
you receive a tarot deck as agift, you have to learn to read
it.
So, coincidentally, at a partya little later, I met this woman
named Lorraine, from Italy andshe is a prolific tarot reader,
(06:48):
and she said hey, do you want meto mentor you in tarot?
Um, I literally don't eventhink she charged me.
I think I like gave her somemoney.
But it was just this likebeautiful relationship over one
summer where I would go to herhouse, uh, every week, uh, uh,
we would sit, and she had thisincredible treasure chest filled
with tarot decks.
(07:08):
She must have had like 100 orlike 150, and each session we
would read with a different deck, like once we had kind of gone
over the basics.
So we had this huge overview oftarot art from all over the
world and all different artists,all different cultures and um,
it made me realize, like I kindof want to do this for myself.
(07:30):
I want to put my stamp on thegenre and, um, I, I guess I
never realized until that pointthat fine art and tarot were
aligned in that way, like Ididn't realize that that was a
thing that artists did, yeah, um, and then, uh, when the
pandemic happened, I had beenprofessionally doing a lot of tv
(07:50):
and film up until that point.
That's how we met our mutualfriend, adrian um, and all those
avenues sort of dried up.
So, again, it was my partner,kevin.
He, he, he's really behind allmy good ideas.
He was like he is, he is likethe mastermind, like I just
(08:12):
dance for him, um, but he waslike you need to start putting
your art online.
And so at that point, because Ihad all this time on my hands,
I started illustrating the tarotdeck, started posting it online
and it just took off and kindof got this life of its own.
Um, and I've been doing thatprofessionally ever since.
That's now like my bread andbutter.
It's my nine to five is fineart and yeah, that's brought us
(08:34):
here.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
That's so amazing.
I love that.
Oh my gosh.
It was kind of wild how?
It happened, I'm going to goKevin.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yeah, I mean truly, truly.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
So first of all, like your, your art background, how
long, when did you first getinto fine art and how you seem?
I mean looking at your, your,your pictures here.
I don't even know if I shouldcall them pictures you're a
little doodles this is a reallynice sketch and they're
(09:06):
incredible and, like you,clearly have been studied in
some way.
So what's the story with that?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
um, you know, I've just been doing, uh, visual art
as long as I can remember.
It was like my first artisticlove, before I did writing,
before I did acting, all thethings that I do now.
Um, visual art, that's like mycore memories.
Um, my mom used to have likeart class with me where we would
go and she would sit.
We would sit at this littlelike, um, I'm not sure what the,
(09:36):
the.
It was a very specific material.
It was a little art table thatI had.
Do you know for for Micah?
It was like a.
It was like this ugly beigecolor, but all these like flecks
, these like sparkling flecks init, and it was written like
metal.
Do you know for for micah?
It was like a.
It was like this ugly beigecolor, but all these like flecks
, these like sparkling flecks init, and it was written like
metal.
Do you know what I'm talkingabout?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
yeah, yeah, yeah, you see a desk like that.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
You know it's time to party, yeah it is like, it is
like a distinct memory in mybrain, but anyway, we would sit
at this table and have art classand I remember being like four
years old and I would draw myfavorite disney characters or
like sonic the hedgehog orwhatever it was, and I would
draw my favorite Disneycharacters or like Sonic the
Hedgehog or whatever it was, andI would create these stories
out of them where I wouldliterally write the story that
went along.
I would like basically create myown illustrated books and my
(10:15):
mom still has a lot of them, butI think, because of the way I
was raised, it was neverpresented to me as an option for
a profession.
Like I never even had in myhead that a visual artist was a
career, so it was something Inever pursued in that way.
Like I took art classes ingrade school and I'm sure that I
(10:36):
learned a lot in those that Inow just take for granted being
able to do, but I didn't go tofine art school.
I just always did it for me inmy spare time.
But even hearing myself tellthis story I realized I think
that you even see that likestorytelling aspect in the art
that I do and in the tarot deckI feel like as.
(10:56):
I'm saying it as I'm saying it,I'm like putting the pieces
together.
I'm like, oh, that's what I'mdoing.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
The branches suit for specifically, like it was one
of the like the suit, the suitswhere I'm going through your
deck and I'm like, oh, this is awhole ass story.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Yeah, yeah, even the way it's laid out.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, no, I was.
I'm obsessed with it.
I think it's so cool.
I was even I had my mom overthis weekend and I was like mom,
look at this.
And I I was.
I always quiz my parents.
I'm like, go through this whole, go through this suit and tell
me, like what do you see, whatdo you feel?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
oh, yeah, your dad's interested in tarot, or are they
like?
Speaker 1 (11:33):
this is another weird interest our child has taken on
we're just gonna smile and nodoh okay, they never like had
even seen a tarot deck, I feellike, until we started talking
about it.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah, I mean, I grew up Catholic so this was all like
don't touch that stuff.
But now they're coming aroundto it like, oh, that's pretty
cool.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
But his dad was doing really great intuitive
interpretations of cards.
He was like well, what I seehere is this man looks really
sad and he's lonely and maybehe's done something wrong.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
You're like I get it, Dad, I get it.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Maybe he should get a job.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
What Dad stop.
It looks like his name is Frank.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
I love to hear that.
That's great yeah, yeah thisdeck that people would just be
able to.
I actually have it here infront of me too, uh, because I
did a little card pull for us.
We can get into later oh fun oh,but I but I hope that people
would just be able to like lookat these and instantly feel
something and it's, and that isthe right answer.
You know what I mean.
Just like what do you?
Whenever I'm giving a tarotreading, I always start with
(12:46):
asking people that I'm likeliterally just name out loud the
things that jump out to you,that you see first, and then
that's always like such a goodway into the card, intuitively.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah, right, so okay, like, when you were
illustrating these cards, howdid your like connection to your
intuition play a part in thestory you wanted to tell?
Or?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
actually I.
I was going to ask thatquestion, but I have a
pre-question to that.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Okay, great Great.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Were you a spooky person ever before you like were
handed a deck yes, uh.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Well, like I said, I, I always sort of leaned into
that scorpio nature.
I, with adrian, our friend, Iwould write horror movies.
That was what I did for 15years like, and they always had
like the psychic character, likethe ouija board or like some,
like some aspect of that.
I've always been very intriguedby those gray areas in our
(13:49):
lives, like where I think it'smuch more interesting what we
don't know than what we do know,like like that's always where
the interesting stuff happens,in those like spaces of mystery.
So, yes, I've always beeninterested in that.
In terms of how I use intuitionwith this deck, I have always
(14:12):
we're about to open a littleside channel here but I've
always been able to.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
That's what we love to do Only side missions, only
side missions.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Very nonlinear, so I've gone many side tangents.
Yeah Well, this tangent is very, I think, gone.
Many side tangents.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah Well, this tangent is very, I think,
aligned with your podcast.
Um, great, I've always been ableto envision, um, these things
in my head just instantly, likeI don't know where they come
from, but like I can just shutmy eyes and picture like five
different art pieces that Icould make.
Right now they're just like,instantly appear.
(14:47):
And for the tarot deck, once Idecided I was gonna do this
project all 25 of the majorarcana in one afternoon.
Actually, I think it was like23 out of 25.
I just like in an hour.
I just knew what they weregoing to be and so I just
hurried up and I wrote, I wrotenotes in my iPhone so I wouldn't
forget them.
And then it took two years tomake the major arcana, but I
(15:11):
never deviated from thatoriginal vision and the things
that you see in front of you areliterally what appeared in my
head on that first day.
Wow, and so when I say thatthis opens a little side quest,
in doing the tarot deck, I havebeen introduced to a lot of
different esoteric communities,including a spiritualist
(15:33):
community called Lilydale,upstate.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Do you all know about this?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
community called lilydale upstate.
Do you all know about this?
No, it's a town.
It's a town of psychic mediums.
Like literally everyone in thetown, pretty much everyone, is a
medium.
Uh, they're all spiritualistsand they all believe that, um,
everybody has the ability tocommune with the dead, with the
beyond, and receive messages, ifyou just get quiet enough and
kind of tune your mind to theright frequency.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
They call what I do channeling.
I hesitate to use that language, but there are definitely
people who consider my artworkin general channeled.
Just because of how I receivethese visual impressions and in
terms of, like, artistic process, it's really important to me.
(16:24):
One of the tenets of my whole,uh, artistic life is that I
don't question these images.
I just put them down exactly asthey appear.
As tempting as it is for myoverthinking brain to want to
move this bush over here andlike, alter these little things,
like no, no, I always, even ifI don't agree with it or don't
(16:44):
like it, I always just put itdown exactly as I see it.
So that's something that is athrough line for all of my art
wow, that's so interesting sodoes that answer your question?
Yes, why do you hesitate to?
Speaker 1 (17:05):
say that it's channeled.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Well, like you, frank , I grew up in a religious
atmosphere, I grew up in aBaptist church, and I just
struggle with religious languagein general.
I just I just that makes sense.
I have like a knee jerkreaction to it.
And I definitely did that thingwhere, like, I left the church
(17:27):
at 18.
I had been going literally likeevery Sunday until I was 18.
Then I moved away and becamelike a heathen and then became
like a complete atheist.
Like I was like I was likethese fucking idiots, like can I
start your podcast?
Heathen.
And then became like a completeatheist.
Like I was like I was likethese fucking idiots, like can I
start your podcast?
But like, truly, it was likethe worst kind of atheist, where
it's almost like as bad as thefundamentalist, where you're
like these people are so stupidthey don't know.
(17:48):
And then I feel like, as I getolder, you like realize the
truth is actually somewhere inbetween those things yeah, like
you said so I still strugglewith religious language a lot,
but it's valid.
You know, I I would maybe use aterm like inspired artwork, but
that's just my own.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Like I said, it's just my own stuff I was telling
lauren like literally a coupledays ago, I was like, oh, I need
to give myself a little morepatience.
Um, I guess the word is likegrace, but I don't like that
word because I grew up with thatmeaning a whole bunch of other
things, and I mean one of thebig, one of the big struggles,
(18:28):
even when we started thispodcast for me was like the
concept of angels.
I'm like okay, come on yeahright now.
We've talked to so many peoplethat I'm like, oh cool, yeah,
like angels for sure.
But I was, like I told her, I'mlike I'm excited to get into
this podcast and talk to somepeople and learn about things,
but I'm going to have a hardtime with angels, let me tell
(18:50):
you and I don't know it's forthe same reason of, like, I have
a lot of deprogramming to do.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
That's exactly it.
It is it?
Deprogramming, that is such agood word for it, and so much of
this semantics do like angels,but then you have people talking
about like guides and ancestors, and those are much more like
palatable to me for some reason.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I mean they're not new, you know, they're not any
less like like woo, but for sureyeah yeah, they're words that
don't have, like historical orlike I don't know, maybe even a
trauma attached to it's, itsmeaning, it's to you and it was
um hijacked meaning yeah, yeah,yeah lots of baggage, lots of
(19:32):
baggage, lots of baggage, atleast for us.
So lilydale yeah, we gotta.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
We gotta make a trip to lilydale one day you said
that's in upstate new yorkabsolutely yes, it is in upstate
new york um it's like westernnew york, so um by lake erie,
like that sort of area like nextto lake erie is a very funny
place for a psychic city.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Perfect.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
We're we're going to be, we're going to just pretend
like we're okay with the termchanneling.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
So you're channeling these things and downloading
channeling.
Yeah, yeah, let's use all theterms.
And so you're getting these likevisuals in your mind's eye and
and then you like, just hold onto these things until you
actually get them on paper orwhat's up yeah, so sometimes
I'll do little sketches,sometimes I'll, like I said,
(20:23):
I'll write notes in my iphonejust and like truly detailed,
you know, like bottom rightcorner there's a trash can and
it's blue and purple the shadowsare purple like really detailed
.
So I remember later, um, butit's like, yeah, I have this
little list in my brain ofartworks that I'm going to make
that have just come to me and Itry to freeze frame them in the
(20:47):
moment.
So I remember what they are.
But yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Like okay, for example, the Wheel of Fortune,
what's it called?
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Rider-Waite is.
We don't talk about that one onthis show.
No, no, not today.
There's only one deck as far aswe're concerned.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I know it's true.
So, for example, for this, thisspider with a spider web
appeared in your mind and canyou tell me about like, like the
symbology of this oneespecially?
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Yeah, yeah, so I with the wheel of fortune.
Um, it does, my credits doalign with traditional I use
that term loosely, traditionalrider weight, smith imagery.
Um, in some ways I mean, thatwas definitely like the core
system that I learned and thenyou kind of can do your own
thing with it.
(21:46):
Um, and I tried to leave it upfor interpretation.
But in my mind the wheel offortune is all about surrender,
like if I had to pick a keywordfor that card.
It is like no matter where youare in the wheel sometimes
you're riding the highs andsometimes you're at a really low
point it will always changeagain.
So it's like you kind of haveto give in to the moment where
(22:09):
you are.
And I used the spider webbecause it's so, it's really
strong and it's also reallyfragile.
And I imagine it's reallystrong and it's also really
fragile.
And I imagine it's likesometimes you're the prey,
sometimes you're the spider, but, like you can see, there's
little parts of the web that arekind of like messed up or
destroyed or like repaired, andthen there's, there's, you can
(22:31):
see, like little insects wrappedup in it.
Yeah, the way I've suspendedthe spider web over the rushing
river, it's just, it's justprecarious, right, like there's
no solid ground to be found inthe scene, but there's also,
like, the rainbow at the top.
So it's this play of opposites,because it really is just about
(22:51):
giving in to where you are andgoing with that flow of life and
kind of going through thosemoments, like you said, frank,
with grace, um, and acceptancein a way.
Um, that's what that card is tome.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
That's so beautiful.
Damn it, John.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
What was the original ?
What?
What is the original mediumLike?
How did you initially makethese?
Oil pastel, that's my like.
Traditional, that's my mainmedium.
What?
What is the original?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
medium, like how did you initially make these?
Uh, oil pastel that's my liketraditional, that's my main
medium how big are the originals?
Um five by seven ish like fourpoint something by seven it's so
cool.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
We've just like stared at these cards, like
they're just so, they're sopretty hope.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I hope people use these cards for meditation.
That's like one of the uh, my,that's like one of my um
individual wishes for this deckis that I, I really want people
to spend time with it, and I'veseen video.
It's funny because people dothese unboxing videos.
It's like a whole thing intarot.
People do these unboxing videos.
(24:00):
It's like a whole thing intarot.
And, um, there are some videoswhere I see people they flip the
cards really quick and they'relike this is the queen of wands,
this is what it means.
This is the wheel of fortune,this is what it means.
This is the ace.
This is what it means.
And I'm like oh, that's fine ifyou want to do it that way, but
take just like, take time withit, just spend time with these
cards.
I, I want seasoned tarotreaders to be able to look again
at these archetypes that weknow so well.
(24:21):
Like that was one of my goalswith this is that not only can
beginners just look at it andinstantly be like oh the chariot
.
I get that there's movement andmomentum, but I want people who
know the cards to have to lookalso and kind of relearn them or
like reassess their owndefinitions of them.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Right, I mean, that makes sense, especially when you
see something so many times,for so long you start to not
even see it anymore.
You know, Right, exactly.
Like bringing a new, just a newvisual to like these old
meanings is so important, andespecially if it was, you know,
channeled, like you said.
You know you brought all ofthis like new ways to interpret
into it and it's, it's so nice.
(24:59):
Um, how long does it?
How long did it take you tojust like make one?
How long does it take?
Speaker 3 (25:05):
um, it varied.
The first card that I ever didwas the moon and it is the least
detailed of all the cards,because I didn't know what I was
doing at that point, so I justsure did a thing and it took
like eight hours.
Um, wow, the other cards tookmuch longer, especially like
you'll see they become.
(25:25):
They can become very detailed,like by the end.
I would say that I would spendlike a couple weeks on a card,
um just sketching it out andlike testing colors and figuring
things out.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, yeah, eight hours, eight hours minimum, and
people are just flipping them.
Oh, look at this one.
Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
So yeah, there's a lot of thought that goes into
them, and I hope that peoplegive them the same amount of
thought when they're readingthem.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
That's like.
That's like fast forwardingthrough the Beatles discography
and be like I don't do that?
That sounds pretty good.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
I guess.
But then a lot of people do getit, I have to say.
A lot of people also do taketheir time and they and they go
into the paintings and reallyunderstand them.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
That's nice.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Um, yeah, I.
Another thing I want to ask youabout is your suits are
uncommon.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Was that another like channel thing, or no Suits are
because I saw yeah, we've gotspires, branches, stones and
what's the other one?
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Spires, branches, stones and tides for cups Tides
right.
Okay, yeah, they all correspondwith the traditional suits.
I hate it when people changesuit names.
I literally it bothers me somuch.
But I tried to figure out a wayto make those names work for
(26:52):
this deck but it just didn'tLike.
With the landscape imagery andstuff it was too the traditional
names were too human oriented,um, just like when you have like
swords.
If I'm thinking like, how doesthat manifest in the natural
landscape?
right it just wasn't.
It just didn't fit like I.
(27:12):
I gave it a lot of thought andand I changed them okay so now
I'm one of those people thatmakes sense?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
I don't know.
You know, I gotta remember thisis a podcast, not always visual
.
Um, the majority of these arelike, yeah, landscape focused,
they're landscape oriented.
Um, god, I'm just looking atyour judgment card.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
I love that one so much oh thanks, new orleans,
have you all been?
Yeah, yeah, of course yeah,that was my favorite.
That's one of my favoriteplaces same has a full episode.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
It was like a storytelling episode.
And after he came back from neworleans, because, oh, because
you had a tarot card readingthat was like profound, that's
like my first, like professionaltarot reading, and I was like
that's cool, yeah, that thattrip like shifted something.
Oh yeah, for sure, in here, inhere in your heart that little
(28:05):
tiny, little tiny heart of mine.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
So, yeah, I mean, I love, I was looking at this and
I'm just obsessed with them.
Like that is it?
That's a I don't want to say aperfect card, even.
It's just a perfect image thatyou, you created.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
You, you brought something amazing to the world
there yeah, thank you so that'sthat let me new orleans is also
a very profound place.
I I also had a profoundexperience in new orleans um
with a reading, although itwasn't a tarot reading.
I got my coconut shells read,oh say more by a voodoo priest
named Charlie.
Oh, my God, and um, and it wasreally profound, it was really
(28:42):
revelatory.
Like um, he said that I had apresence with me.
There was an.
It was an older female presencewho had died 10 years previous
and we, through conversation, wedetermined it to be my
grandmother, who I, um, I had alot of guilt associated with her
(29:04):
passing because I was incollege at the time.
She got sick, thank, aroundThanksgiving and I wasn't home
and she had passed by Christmas.
And so I, literally, by thetime I got there, she was like
in hospice, unresponsive, youknow, I like was there, I said
my words to her in her ear, butit was not the ending that
(29:29):
should have been, you know.
And so I definitely had a lotof unresolved feelings and
emotions with that.
But Charlie, the voodoo priest,picked up on this and he was
like she's always with you,she's always in your corner, but
(29:50):
you need to acknowledge thatpresence more.
And he showed me how to do anancestor service, which I had
never even heard of before,honestly.
And he was like, just go home,put on some music that you and
your grandmother would havelistened to, or put on a movie
that you would have liked, eatsome of your favorite foods,
light a candle, just talk to heras if she's there.
And at the time I left and youknow my very skeptical,
(30:12):
overthinking brain was like,okay, well, you know, everybody
has a grandmother who passed.
But I went home and I did thething and, regardless of whether
or not you believe that you areactually communing with spirits
or just your own subconsciousiterations, it was such a moving
(30:33):
experience, emotionalexperience.
I have ancestor servicesliterally all the time.
Now I have, I have a little boxthat has little tiny pictures
of all the people in my lifewho've passed, who've been
meaningful to me, and, um, Iwill often, at holidays or on
birthdays I'll like, select one.
I'll, you know, get theirfavorite food, I'll watch a
(30:55):
movie that they would have liked.
Sometimes I'll even dedicate mydaily art practice to one of
them.
You know whose traits I wouldwant to embody that day.
It's become a really importantpart of my, of my spiritual
practice.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Okay, I'm trying to not get emotional, but today's
my day.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
You're allowed.
It was.
It's an emotional thing.
And I highly recommend I highlyrecommend doing what I just
said.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Yeah.
Today's my brother's birthdayand he passed 20 years ago, and
so on his birthday we always doSorry.
No, it's okay, it's funny timingthat you brought that up,
because we always do like mydaughter was like oh, we got to
get maple donuts for Uncle Ian'sbirthday and you know we always
(31:43):
do like a lot of things that hewould have enjoyed and we like
celebrate him, we say like happybirthday, we do a little cheers
, so I love that.
It's like just kind of perfect.
Of course, yeah, there are nocoincidences that you mentioned
that, but yeah, that's so, it'sso cool and it's such a great
(32:03):
way to like keep their memory,sorry, keep their memory like
present and keep their likelegacy or their, their story
alive, especially with, you know, younger ones or people who
didn't know them, stuff likethat.
Yeah, that's so cool that'sit's also so.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
I'm in the middle of reading a book about like um,
doing that, like what you'resaying, like like I don't I
don't want to call it ancestryreverence I suppose like making
like a little bit of an altar.
I love that you have.
Can you explain your setupagain real quick?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
you have a little box with the like pictures in it
yes, since you ask, we're in myart studio right now, so I have
it.
I have it handy, but um, so Ihave this little box.
Actually, this was gifted to meby ad.
We're very connected, so it's alittle box and it has.
It's just beautiful.
(33:02):
There's like some herbs in it,there's a little essential oil
thing, but then it came withthis little picture frame and
you can see little.
I have all these little picturesof people who are important to
me, and so, yeah, I'll selectone or a group of them and put
them in the frame, and then Ihave my little candle that I
(33:23):
light and, yeah, it just isright there on my shelf while
I'm working.
This is where I work, where Ido all my art I love that Wow, I
have.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
That just gave Frank some ideas.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
I've got the perfect little box for this.
It's already right over there.
I have a whole thing for it.
I keep like my sage and like mylike house smudging things and
my cleansing things and a couplelike crystals and stuff like
that and and uh, I've been.
I'm like, where am I going toset up this?
Like I didn't want to have likea permanent, like oh, basically
(33:58):
like where do I?
Where do I keep this stuff?
Because, yeah, like one of mygrandparents I'm just getting
into like being a Reikipractitioner and one of my
grandparents did like healinghand stuff in Cuba and I'm like,
oh, I should probably like talkto that guy.
Yeah, so I wanted to do.
Yeah, I wanted to do exactlythat and I love this format.
(34:19):
That's perfect.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
That's like a little cigar box.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Oh, what an idea.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
There it is.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
There it is.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
I'm sure I can probably ask my dad.
He probably has a box of Cohibasomewhere or something that I
can, that's perfect, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Has a box of cojibas somewhere or something that I
can?
That's perfect.
Yeah, yeah, it is important,though it is important, I think,
these little rituals like Isaid, regardless of what anyone
believes you're taking thoughtand physicalizing it in the
world, which just has so muchpower, and I don't think people
give it enough credit and wecertainly don't practice
ancestor reverence enough inthis country oh, no way I mean,
(35:05):
we see how we treat our eldersgenerally here, but it's so
important in other places in theworld and and I get it like I
understand why- yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I mean, you're carrying so much story and
history and trauma with you fromyour ancestors and I think part
of like healing that is payingattention to it and giving it
some kind of like honoring,Because you I think you were you
were pretty like resistant tokind of like digging up stuff.
(35:40):
You're like, well, why do Ihave to do it?
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Well listen, I grew up in America, so toxic
individualism is built into mybones.
Okay, and and also as someonewho, like, tries to, you know,
live into my own personalsovereignty and all that I'm
like, and who didn't really havea really established
(36:03):
relationship with the majorityof my grandparents for various
reasons, it's like, well, Idon't need that stuff anyway,
right, but then I'm also justnot respecting the entire story
of how I got here and what I'mabout and what I'm bringing into
the world, at least from a veryfoundational, like genetic
level at the very least.
So like acknowledging and then,and then that's not even to
(36:27):
mention what they did with theirlives.
And you know, I'm, I'm, I'm onboth sides.
There's immigration thatoccurred and it's I can't just
like ignore that.
You know, right, and and andwith that immigration come, came
along like, and what I wish Ihad more access to is some of
that, some of that folk magic,some of that that like cultural.
(36:48):
You know, it's like they came toamerica and suddenly, and then
you know, there was a connectionthat was lost at some point,
and now I'm just a clean slateof, you know, cheeseburgers and
I'm trying to tap into, I, I'm,I'm very much like culturally
just straight American Right,even though my dad, like, was
born in Cuba.
(37:09):
So there's a part of me thatalmost feels like if I were to
inherit some of that, those, andthen my mom, my mom's side, is
from Scotland.
There's a part of me if I'mlike oh yeah, I want to get like
some Celtic tattoos or like, ifI want to um, I don't know,
like like practice, some like umSanteria or something it feels.
It feels inauthentic to mebecause I had never had any real
(37:30):
access to that.
The foundation.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
You don't even click, you don't even put like
Hispanic or Latino on your likeapplications or anything.
I do sometimes if I really want, if I really want the job.
Half Cuban.
I'm always like what Frank like, he's like I don't know, I just
(37:52):
put white yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Because culturally I'm not genetically, I am like
like a mixed, you know, yeah.
So the whole thing of like atthe found on a foundational
level, because culturally I'mnot genetically, I am like like
a mixed, you know, yeah, so thewhole thing of like at the found
on a foundational level, like,at least on, I know for sure, on
my, my dad's side, the Cubanside, there was a little bit of
like folk magic and healingstuff.
And I, if I, if I don't havethe cultural element of that I
still have, I can still ask forthe help.
(38:15):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Yeah, and also, and also and also.
You know, it's not about like Idon't I.
It's not about being beholdento the past because, like the
story is now yours to take inwhatever direction you choose,
like there's nothing wrong witheating cheeseburgers and you
know, living your american dreamor whatever it is, but, but
it's just, it's more recognizingthat you are continuing a story
that was going long before youwere around, you know and you're
(38:43):
going to leave something foryour chosen heirs long after.
So, um, yeah, I I.
If that takes the pressure off,I hope yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
I just love your setup and I'm going to copy you,
sorry.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
I hope you do it's.
It's really lovely.
I mean, I it.
It makes it so much moreintentional each day to do my
work and dedicate that practiceto, to the memory of somebody.
Um, especially if there's sometrait that I want to embody, if,
like, like, I know that mygreat grandmother worked her ass
off, so, like, if there's a daywhere I wake up and I'm like I
(39:21):
don't want to sit and do thistoday, like, great-grandma, give
me that, give me that energy,like we're gonna dedicate this
practice to you.
Um, who would like, even whenshe had like lost her sight, was
like blindly, like cutting thenoodles for the dinner you know
what I mean.
Like it's that sort of thing.
And like then I have friendswho are like creative engines
(39:41):
and and they pass and I'm like,okay, I need some of that like
creative inspiration today.
So it really is like a lovelyintentional practice and I hope
that it is meaningful to you toono, that's, that's really great
.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
I love that because I've heard people say like, oh,
you know, I we had a guest and Ican't remember who it was at
this moment.
But, um, they said they hadlike, oh, I put my grandfather
on my spirit team and I put,cause he's really good at
business and I put this personon my spirit team because
(40:16):
they're good at this.
It might've been Lucy Jane, butanyway, oh, that's right person
on my spirit team becausethey're good at this might've
been Lucy Jane, but anyway, oh,that's right she was.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
I was like she's one of the few people I'm like.
Wait, you are, you're in chargeof your roster.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
You're like spirit team, like lineup, yeah, but the
way you're putting it, um, justhelps me because there's like a
tangible, there's a practice tothat.
That helps me put the intentionin there with like I don't know
(40:51):
the physical thing of your boxand the picture, and going like,
okay, I'm going to choose youto like kind of, I'm going to
draw inspiration from yourpersonality or your like these
traits that you strongly havethat I maybe don't, as well as
(41:12):
you do.
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Just to remember where you came from, that's
great.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
So I mean, you got your first tarot deck in 2018.
I mean, if I got, I'd be like,oh, I'm a, I still I'm like, I'm
a baby witch.
I'm a baby witch, but you,you're now, you're already like,
like making your mark in thiscommunity, right, um, what's
been like the thing it?
Has there been a thing that haslike helped you in your like
(41:39):
practice or your development themost, aside from just studying
tarot like you did?
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Well, illustrating a deck for five years gives you a
very deep understanding of thecards in a more intimate way
than I ever even thoughtpossible.
I have such a profound respectfor tarot now it's really
fascinating doing any projectfor that long, but like
(42:05):
especially this that deals withall these archetypes and these
situations that come up over andover again in our lives,
because innumerable times Iwould be illustrating a card and
then something would happen inmy life and I'd be like oh well,
I'm right here where this, thiscard is, and you just realize
how much wisdom is encapsulatedin these little 78 cards.
(42:27):
It really is a distillation of,like great wisdom from
thousands of years ago.
You know like, like it truly isand when I say it, it it really
does offer solutions for everyproblem that you can come up
against in your life.
Like it's all there.
(42:48):
And that's really shocking tome, because it's easy to just be
like, oh, tarot, like it's afun game or like no, it's legit.
There's like so much thoughtand so many hundreds, thousands
of years of like the humancondition put into these cards.
It's really startling, likewhen you really start to start
(43:12):
to study it I like, really do.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
I like to study people and their decision making
and all that stuff, right andlike I, I am unable to
psychoanalyze the tarot deck.
I'm like I don't know wherethis came from.
This is like this is next level, shit right, it's not that
simple.
I, like a part of me is alwayswants to be like well, in any
given situation, you knowthere's only a couple of choices
(43:37):
you could make and they're alllisted here and nope, nope,
there's a lot going on here.
It's way more than that is notthat simple, and it's always
exactly what you need, which islike the most amazing part.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
I love it so much.
So, while you were illustratingthem, there would be things
that you're like oh there's, I'mlearning, I'm getting the same
message from this one that I'mworking on, Just like it always
feels like serendipitous, butthe messages are coming through
while you're working on them.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
Yeah, it happened all the time.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
And.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
I would be like there's a card for everything.
I think that's the other thing.
There's like a card for everysituation that you can be in.
I'd oh well, I'm in the youknow seven of pentacles today.
Like it and um.
I took a class during thepandemic from harvard online um,
(44:30):
it was on predictive systems,and a whole section of that
class went into, like, thehistory of tarot and astrology
and where all of these wisdom,traditions and divination
systems met, um, like back inthe fertile crescent, and it
really did allow me to realizethat back then people, would you
(44:53):
know, come to oracles, almostlike people go to therapists,
like they would come with theirproblems and eventually, like
these people figured out they'rethe right ways.
There are.
There are certain ways to liveyour life that just are better
than others, and I feel likethat wisdom is like carried
(45:13):
through in all these differenttraditions and now they're
distilled into 78 cards.
But it, yeah, it's just, it'simmense.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
I'm still surprised by it every day yeah sometimes,
even though I'm just not feelinggreat, I'll just grab my deck
and I'll go to like pull a cardand I'll get distracted.
But sometimes just holding mydeck makes me feel better.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
I'm like it's like you're you're a blankie like
you're adult it's a little bitof a blankie.
Yeah, let's ignore my historyof cod'm.
Like it's like you're.
You're a blankie like you'readult it's a little bit of a
blankie.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Yeah, let's ignore my history of codependence.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
It's fine um are any of these meant to be, or are
they meant to be read upright,or do you do reversed at all?
Speaker 3 (45:56):
um, I personally don't do reversals in my own
readings, because I tend to talkabout the reversals anyway.
When I'm explaining cards topeople or reading, I tend to
give them both sides of itanyway, but there's no right or
wrong way.
People can read reversals ifthey would like.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
I've started to actually, when we pull cards,
I've started to read both theupright and reversal, because it
feels like the entire picture.
It feels like it gives you likethe here's where you're at and
here's where things could bedifferent if you do the thing or
whatever it might be right.
Like it's like the totalpicture of it yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
I'm now understanding .
I just realized the title ofyour oops, the title of your
oops, the title of your deckmindscapes, because you said
they show up in your mind.
I love that.
Speaker 3 (46:48):
And actually Kevin came up with that title.
Kevin, he's responsible for allmy good ideas.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
I'm telling you, he's just the man in the chair.
He's sitting behind you withhis fingers like this.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
He's like Oz yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
He's like next, john, you're going to do this.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
John, you don't need a deck, just ask me, kevin.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
I know your next move , the mastermind, the mastermind
, the mastermind.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
That's amazing, John.
Do you use your own deck?
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Yeah, yeah, he was just shuffling.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Is it interesting to use your own deck I was talking
earlier about, especially withRider Waite?
We use these cards all the timeand it's like, oh, I've seen
this and you forget to reallylook at it.
Do you look deeply into yourown pictures?
Speaker 3 (47:47):
Yes, forget to like really look at it, do you are
you?
Do you like look deeply intoyour own pictures?
Yes, because, um, I think,because it is such a
non-traditional system.
Um, when I'm doing a spread, Istill do have to think about how
the cards relate to one anotherand how, like one might be
informing something else.
But also, this deck is stillpretty new to me.
I've only had it in printedform for like a little over a
month, so I haven't been able toread with it for that long, and
so I am learning with it too.
But, I do like the way it reads.
(48:08):
I definitely can get reallygood readings out of it and I've
been getting really positivefeedback from others, so it's
great.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
That's awesome.
Yeah, wait, what was the cardyou you pulled, though.
Speaker 3 (48:21):
Okay.
So I woke up this morning and Iwas like I've been in kind of a
a little bit of a funk lately,which is so crazy because I do
have the deck that just came out.
I have another book coming outnext month but I felt like, um,
a little bit in like a nebulousarea and I was like I'm really
(48:42):
in like a moon place with themoon is like the dark night of
the soul.
It's about unknown mystery andhaving to just put one foot
forward, one foot in front ofthe other, to just keep going
and trust that what is waitingon the other side is is right
and worth it.
But you have to keep movingforward, even when it feels
paralyzing and scary.
And I was like I'm going topull a card for this podcast and
(49:05):
I shuffled the crap out of thisdeck and I pulled the moon card
Isn't that wild.
I split the deck, I shuffled itin two piles, I cut it multiple
times and that was the cardthat was right on top I would
say it's wild if it hasn'thappened to me a hundred times
before I know that's true,that's true, like, like.
The thing that shows up is thething like, of course, of course
(49:28):
yeah one foot in front of theother yeah, so that could be the
card for me, though, because Ifeel that's.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
I've felt that same feeling that you were explaining
in the last few days too.
I came home from a trip twodays ago and I was like I don't
know, I just have this pit in mystomach.
I was alone, without any plans,and I was like who am I?
(49:56):
You should call Kevin.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
I know who am I, you know you should call Kevin.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
I know I'll call Kevin.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Kevin, what do I do next?
Well, I think I also sawsomething like, astrologically,
there's a lot like the beginningof August is supposed to be too
busy to um, we're uh over, uhcommitted, kind of thing.
So, and overwhelmed, so I couldI I'm no astrologer, but I
would imagine that that mighthave something to do with it.
And on top of all that, you,just you just dropped a deck.
Speaker 3 (50:36):
I just dropped the deck.
It's the whole, it's the um.
That old saying jump in the netwill appear like that is the
embodiment of that card um, john, do me a favor.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Tell everybody where to find you and, and, and what
your upcoming projects are howto buy this deck yeah, sure,
well, uh.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
So the deck is available.
Wherever you buy books, you canget it.
I encourage people to go totheir local indie bookstore,
metaphysical shop.
You can ask for it if theydon't have it.
But you can also find it at thebig ones, at Barnes, noble and
Amazon, blah, blah, blah.
And you can find me mostly onInstagram.
It's just my name, johnawritesFacebook.
(51:17):
My website iswwwjarstudionyccom.
Um.
But instagram, I would say, iswhere I mostly post my stuff.
That's where, like my, myportfolio, I would say.
You can find me on tiktok, ifyou're young or pretending to be
like me or or pretendingExactly yes.
(51:42):
And then, in terms of futureprojects, I have a book coming
out next month.
It is called October Shadowsclassic ghost stories for
Halloween, and I actually havethat.
I have a copy of that righthere too, which I can show you
like the cover of.
Can you see that?
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (51:57):
That looks amazing.
That's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (51:59):
It's all illustrated on autumn leaves, so I don't
know if you can see it let mefind it.
Oh my god let me find a goodone to show you are these?
Speaker 2 (52:07):
are these original stories or are these collected
stories?
Speaker 3 (52:10):
no, like this is the fall of the house of usher by
edgar allen poe.
So can you see?
This is that.
Can you see that?
Yeah, yes so so it's all onautumn, leaves um, and there's
15 stories, 15 differentoriginal illustrations.
I'm super excited about it.
I think it's gonna be reallycool.
That is awesome yeah, so, andit's.
(52:32):
The publisher is abbevillepress.
They're great.
Yeah, they're an.
They're an art book publisherand they bound it in crushed
black silk, like I don't know ifyou can see.
It's stunning, it's like just abeautiful book.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
So if you like.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
Halloween.
You like Halloween.
You like heirloom bookkeepsakes, october Shadows,
classic ghost stories forHalloween.
And then I'm actually workingon a new card deck that is all
channeled artwork from themediums cabinet.
(53:06):
We didn't even talk about this.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
The mediums cabinet.
What is this?
Speaker 3 (53:11):
so the last time I was in Lilydale.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
God bless them like an actual cabinet, like a
spiritualist cabinet, like aspiritualist cabinet.
Speaker 3 (53:20):
Automatic drawings from seances that I had in
Lillydale.
There's still much to talkabout.
We need to come back for a parttwo or something.
We do I have a deck of cardsthat is all automatic drawings
during those received sessionsduring those seances.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
What.
Speaker 3 (53:41):
Actually, I don't know that I've told anybody
about that yet, so you might bethe first to hear about it.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
A Claire Voyaging exclusive.
Very cool.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
Oh, no Wait.
I feel like maybe it would befun to have you and Adrian.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
Okay, why don't we get you back on to push the book
a little bit, and we'll haveAdrian on too, you guys can?
Don't we get you back on topush the book a little bit, and
we'll have Adrian on too, youguys can?
Speaker 1 (54:01):
And tell us about the cabinets.
Speaker 3 (54:04):
Cool, yeah, I will.
It's sort of its own uniquestory, but also, again, very
aligned with what you guys aredoing here.
Speaker 2 (54:14):
Oh, so fun.
That's awesome.
I'm excited about that.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
We'll get a little more spooky.
Speaker 3 (54:19):
we'll get a little more like spooky we'll get more
spooky, a little more spooky.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
Yes, it does okay it's funny too, because I was
gonna ask you if, like you still, because a lot of times people
get into, like you know, moreesoteric and and woo-woo stuff
and then, um, I, they just stopliking horror and oh, and I
think they are the opposite.
I'm like oh no, I love thisstuff Like scare me.
But sometimes, especially ifI'm watching like like videos on
(54:44):
YouTube or something of like,this spooky thing happened, like
top five scary things thathappened this week, and I'm
watching that stuff and I'm halfthe time I'm laughing.
I'm like oh that ghost justwanted to say hi.
Sometimes I'm like oh, oh,that's gross.
Speaker 3 (54:59):
But yeah, yeah, no, I'm still still a big horror fan
here.
You know what it has done.
It has made me like when I'mwriting a horror script or
something, if I'm writing likeabout tarot cards or like a
psychic, I'm like damn, I knowthat's not real, I know that's
not it works.
I know tarot cards are gatewaysfor demons.
(55:20):
Like I can't use that anymoreas like a horror movie trope.
Yeah, you know you kind of havea deeper respect for a lot of
things that are just verycasually tossed around in horror
.
Um, but no, I still enjoy thegenre.
Speaker 2 (55:34):
I will say we've been in like one like writer's room.
That was a loose room forwriting like a horror script,
and we were.
I was like, oh, let's give this, let's give the, the big bad
like some good motivation here.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
We were bringing, like the, the true paranormal,
like element to the, thewriter's room.
Speaker 2 (55:55):
Yeah, it was like it was probably what happened to
your, your ghost, like he's ademon.
Speaker 3 (55:59):
We were like no, this was a real person who like
whatever.
Speaker 2 (56:09):
Exactly, yeah, yeah, it's always trauma.
Yeah, john, let's catch upreally soon and we'll talk more.
Speaker 3 (56:17):
It sounds awesome.
Yeah, I mean, it's my pleasure.
Thank you so much for speakingwith me.
Speaker 1 (56:21):
Thank you, it was so great to meet you Again.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
Thank you for sending the deck.
It's beautiful and everyone goget one.
Mindscapes.
Speaker 1 (56:28):
Mindscapes Tarot.
Go pick it up today.
Thank you, John.
Speaker 2 (56:32):
Thank you both so much.
Thank you for listening.
Visit clairevoyagingcom formerchandise or to access free
resources to help you on yourspiritual journey.
Subscribe to our Patreon formore content or join for free to
chat with us.
Claire Voyaging is a fiscallysponsored project of Fractured
Atlas, a 501c3 charity.
(56:54):
Make a tax-deductible donationto support our mission to foster
understanding, respect andcuriosity for diverse spiritual
belief systems.
Claire Voyaging is a productionof Wayfeather Media.
Hello, my sweet little angels.
In today's episode we talked toJohn A Rice, author, artist and
creator of the new tarot deck,mindscapes Tarot.
We talk about tarot cards,intuition, honoring your
ancestors and the art ofcreating a tarot deck.
I'm Lauren Leon and I'm donehiding now I'm shining like I'm
(00:25):
born to be.
Wow.
We are a married couplelearning how to develop our own
intuition.
This is episode 81 of ClaireVoyaging.
We're going up, up up.
This is our moment.
Gonna be gonna be golden.
Gonna be gonna be golden.
(00:45):
Gonna be gonna be golden.
Oh, wayfeather Media presentsClaire Voyaging.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Hello puppies.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Hello sweet babies.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
How's it going today?
How about us?
We?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Me and Lauren.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
We are great, we're so good, we're permanently tired
, we're super late to Legoland,and yeah, it's okay.
Here's a new episode we'regoing to lego land today we are
our first our first time and we,when we say today, we don't
mean that we recorded this threeweeks ago, we mean today, on
release day, right after wefinished recording, I'm gonna go
(01:38):
edit this and we're going tolego land sorry, it's, late
sorry it's late.
Little baby seat of our pantsright now where we're still
adjusting.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
It's a long adjustment and that's okay.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
You know great, that's part of grace you'll
learn about grace today when Icomplain about the word that's
part of being transparent andfully open and vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I look like a trash can I'm sweating.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Did anyone know that that san diego is humid and hot?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
listen, not complaining, but boy, it's a,
it's an adjustment there's athere's a heat wave happening
right now it's more of a humidwave yeah, but, like you know, a
lot of places in in San Diegodon't have air conditioning
because they're like you don'tneed it.
This is the beach, but we weneeded it yesterday, we probably
(02:35):
need it today.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
My brow disagrees.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Our poor kids are.
They're sweating, they'resweating.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I.
We had one of those old like awindow air conditioning unit, so
I just installed it thismorning, which is one of the
reasons why we're late.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
But in their, in their room, they have the window
where it fits, so they get thespecial treatment.
They get mom and dad, get theswamp box, that's okay.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
We get to just walk into their room and say, oh my
God, it's so much cooler in herethan everywhere else.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
The kids, the dogs, they're all hanging out in the
other room.
Yeah, it's fine.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
But you know what they get to sleep, which is
that's the most important thing.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
We'll test that they're not waking up.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Hopefully, this is the first day.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
We'll see.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
But hopefully they won't wake up saying I'm so hot,
anyway, hi everyone, hey, okay,anyway, hi everyone, hey, okay.
So today's episode is with john, and we heard about john from
our friend adrian, who we met induluth at the duluth film
festival adrian's.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Adrian's the greatest thing that ever hit duluth and
she's not from there.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah we became fast friends with Adrienne.
You might remember her from our50th episode.
It was our Halloween specialand we did a tour of the
Glensheen Mansion and we learnedbefore doing that.
We quickly learned thatAdrienne has mediumistic
abilities.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
She see the ghosts.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
She see the ghosts.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
She see them real good.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
All the time, but it was just a really fun,
serendipitous thing.
Of course, nothing's acoincidence and it was great to
meet her and she was like, bythe way, my best friend John is
creating a tarot deck.
He's an artist and we were like, well, let's have him on the
(04:26):
show.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
And we finally did well, he, finally, he finally
released the deck his deck justcame out, like a few days ago
yeah and it's beautiful it's socool guys, it's so cool.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
We should really fun, are we?
Posting a link and show notesor anything of, of course, okay,
okay, okay Of course I don'tknow what, uh, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Like in the link I haven't seen where you buy it or
anything, but I don't know ifthey have photos of all the
pictures of all the um cards.
But man, oh man there are somebeaut John A Rice, mindscapes,
tarot, and you'll just be like,oh okay, yeah, this is gorgeous
(05:08):
and we're not getting kickbacksor anything, by the way, we're
just fans here.
It's very nice.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Truly Like just so fun to talk to someone who spent
so much time creating their owntarot deck.
Like what a special, cool thing.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Took them five years.
I don't want listen.
No spoilers, go listen.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, I don't want listen.
No spoilers.
Go listen.
Yeah, go check it out.
Come on, hey, oh yay.
Hey, wait, the episode's rightafter this.
Please just continue.
You know what?
Maybe just start it.
No, go ahead, you first, afteryou, after you, let's let it rip
.
Finally we get to meet you.
We're so excited about that.
(05:46):
So you made this beautifulMindscapes tarot deck which I
have right here, and can youtell us about how you got into
this?
A little backstory backgroundabout you.
Tell us about John.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Sure.
Well, a lot of people have beenasking me lately how I got
interested in tarot and, to behonest, I don't really remember.
I'm a Libra who leans Scorpio,so I've always been interested
in weird dark things ever sinceI was little, so tarot was
always sort of on my radar.
And then, around 2018, mypartner, kevin, gifted me my
(06:25):
first tarot deck, which iscalled the Wild Unknown by Kim
Kranz, and I had heard, I guesslike an old wives tale, that if
you receive a tarot deck as agift, you have to learn to read
it.
So, coincidentally, at a partya little later, I met this woman
named Lorraine, from Italy andshe is a prolific tarot reader,
(06:48):
and she said hey, do you want meto mentor you in tarot?
Um, I literally don't eventhink she charged me.
I think I like gave her somemoney.
But it was just this likebeautiful relationship over one
summer where I would go to herhouse, uh, every week, uh, uh,
we would sit, and she had thisincredible treasure chest filled
with tarot decks.
(07:08):
She must have had like 100 orlike 150, and each session we
would read with a different deck, like once we had kind of gone
over the basics.
So we had this huge overview oftarot art from all over the
world and all different artists,all different cultures and um,
it made me realize, like I kindof want to do this for myself.
(07:30):
I want to put my stamp on thegenre and, um, I, I guess I
never realized until that pointthat fine art and tarot were
aligned in that way, like Ididn't realize that that was a
thing that artists did, yeah, um, and then, uh, when the
pandemic happened, I had beenprofessionally doing a lot of tv
(07:50):
and film up until that point.
That's how we met our mutualfriend, adrian um, and all those
avenues sort of dried up.
So, again, it was my partner,kevin.
He, he, he's really behind allmy good ideas.
He was like he is, he is likethe mastermind, like I just
(08:12):
dance for him, um, but he waslike you need to start putting
your art online.
And so at that point, because Ihad all this time on my hands,
I started illustrating the tarotdeck, started posting it online
and it just took off and kindof got this life of its own.
Um, and I've been doing thatprofessionally ever since.
That's now like my bread andbutter.
It's my nine to five is fineart and yeah, that's brought us
(08:34):
here.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
That's so amazing.
I love that.
Oh my gosh.
It was kind of wild how?
It happened, I'm going to goKevin.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yeah, I mean truly, truly.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
So first of all, like your, your art background, how
long, when did you first getinto fine art and how you seem?
I mean looking at your, your,your pictures here.
I don't even know if I shouldcall them pictures you're a
little doodles this is a reallynice sketch and they're
(09:06):
incredible and, like you,clearly have been studied in
some way.
So what's the story with that?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
um, you know, I've just been doing, uh, visual art
as long as I can remember.
It was like my first artisticlove, before I did writing,
before I did acting, all thethings that I do now.
Um, visual art, that's like mycore memories.
Um, my mom used to have likeart class with me where we would
go and she would sit.
We would sit at this littlelike, um, I'm not sure what the,
(09:36):
the.
It was a very specific material.
It was a little art table thatI had.
Do you know for for Micah?
It was like a.
It was like this ugly beigecolor, but all these like flecks
, these like sparkling flecks init, and it was written like
metal.
Do you know for for micah?
It was like a.
It was like this ugly beigecolor, but all these like flecks
, these like sparkling flecks init, and it was written like
metal.
Do you know what I'm talkingabout?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
yeah, yeah, yeah, you see a desk like that.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
You know it's time to party, yeah it is like, it is
like a distinct memory in mybrain, but anyway, we would sit
at this table and have art classand I remember being like four
years old and I would draw myfavorite disney characters or
like sonic the hedgehog orwhatever it was, and I would
draw my favorite Disneycharacters or like Sonic the
Hedgehog or whatever it was, andI would create these stories
out of them where I wouldliterally write the story that
went along.
I would like basically create myown illustrated books and my
(10:15):
mom still has a lot of them, butI think, because of the way I
was raised, it was neverpresented to me as an option for
a profession.
Like I never even had in myhead that a visual artist was a
career, so it was something Inever pursued in that way.
Like I took art classes ingrade school and I'm sure that I
(10:36):
learned a lot in those that Inow just take for granted being
able to do, but I didn't go tofine art school.
I just always did it for me inmy spare time.
But even hearing myself tellthis story I realized I think
that you even see that likestorytelling aspect in the art
that I do and in the tarot deckI feel like as.
(10:56):
I'm saying it as I'm saying it,I'm like putting the pieces
together.
I'm like, oh, that's what I'mdoing.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
The branches suit for specifically, like it was one
of the like the suit, the suitswhere I'm going through your
deck and I'm like, oh, this is awhole ass story.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Yeah, yeah, even the way it's laid out.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, no, I was.
I'm obsessed with it.
I think it's so cool.
I was even I had my mom overthis weekend and I was like mom,
look at this.
And I I was.
I always quiz my parents.
I'm like, go through this whole, go through this suit and tell
me, like what do you see, whatdo you feel?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
oh, yeah, your dad's interested in tarot, or are they
like?
Speaker 1 (11:33):
this is another weird interest our child has taken on
we're just gonna smile and nodoh okay, they never like had
even seen a tarot deck, I feellike, until we started talking
about it.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah, I mean, I grew up Catholic so this was all like
don't touch that stuff.
But now they're coming aroundto it like, oh, that's pretty
cool.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
But his dad was doing really great intuitive
interpretations of cards.
He was like well, what I seehere is this man looks really
sad and he's lonely and maybehe's done something wrong.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
You're like I get it, Dad, I get it.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Maybe he should get a job.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
What Dad stop.
It looks like his name is Frank.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
I love to hear that.
That's great yeah, yeah thisdeck that people would just be
able to.
I actually have it here infront of me too, uh, because I
did a little card pull for us.
We can get into later oh fun oh,but I but I hope that people
would just be able to like lookat these and instantly feel
something and it's, and that isthe right answer.
You know what I mean.
Just like what do you?
Whenever I'm giving a tarotreading, I always start with
(12:46):
asking people that I'm likeliterally just name out loud the
things that jump out to you,that you see first, and then
that's always like such a goodway into the card, intuitively.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah, right, so okay, like, when you were
illustrating these cards, howdid your like connection to your
intuition play a part in thestory you wanted to tell?
Or?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
actually I.
I was going to ask thatquestion, but I have a
pre-question to that.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Okay, great Great.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Were you a spooky person ever before you like were
handed a deck yes, uh.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Well, like I said, I, I always sort of leaned into
that scorpio nature.
I, with adrian, our friend, Iwould write horror movies.
That was what I did for 15years like, and they always had
like the psychic character, likethe ouija board or like some,
like some aspect of that.
I've always been very intriguedby those gray areas in our
(13:49):
lives, like where I think it'smuch more interesting what we
don't know than what we do know,like like that's always where
the interesting stuff happens,in those like spaces of mystery.
So, yes, I've always beeninterested in that.
In terms of how I use intuitionwith this deck, I have always
(14:12):
we're about to open a littleside channel here but I've
always been able to.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
That's what we love to do Only side missions, only
side missions.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Very nonlinear, so I've gone many side tangents.
Yeah Well, this tangent is very, I think, gone.
Many side tangents.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah Well, this tangent is very, I think,
aligned with your podcast.
Um, great, I've always been ableto envision, um, these things
in my head just instantly, likeI don't know where they come
from, but like I can just shutmy eyes and picture like five
different art pieces that Icould make.
Right now they're just like,instantly appear.
(14:47):
And for the tarot deck, once Idecided I was gonna do this
project all 25 of the majorarcana in one afternoon.
Actually, I think it was like23 out of 25.
I just like in an hour.
I just knew what they weregoing to be and so I just
hurried up and I wrote, I wrotenotes in my iPhone so I wouldn't
forget them.
And then it took two years tomake the major arcana, but I
(15:11):
never deviated from thatoriginal vision and the things
that you see in front of you areliterally what appeared in my
head on that first day.
Wow, and so when I say thatthis opens a little side quest,
in doing the tarot deck, I havebeen introduced to a lot of
different esoteric communities,including a spiritualist
(15:33):
community called Lilydale,upstate.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Do you all know about this?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
community called lilydale upstate.
Do you all know about this?
No, it's a town.
It's a town of psychic mediums.
Like literally everyone in thetown, pretty much everyone, is a
medium.
Uh, they're all spiritualistsand they all believe that, um,
everybody has the ability tocommune with the dead, with the
beyond, and receive messages, ifyou just get quiet enough and
kind of tune your mind to theright frequency.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
They call what I do channeling.
I hesitate to use that language, but there are definitely
people who consider my artworkin general channeled.
Just because of how I receivethese visual impressions and in
terms of, like, artistic process, it's really important to me.
(16:24):
One of the tenets of my whole,uh, artistic life is that I
don't question these images.
I just put them down exactly asthey appear.
As tempting as it is for myoverthinking brain to want to
move this bush over here andlike, alter these little things,
like no, no, I always, even ifI don't agree with it or don't
(16:44):
like it, I always just put itdown exactly as I see it.
So that's something that is athrough line for all of my art
wow, that's so interesting sodoes that answer your question?
Yes, why do you hesitate to?
Speaker 1 (17:05):
say that it's channeled.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Well, like you, frank , I grew up in a religious
atmosphere, I grew up in aBaptist church, and I just
struggle with religious languagein general.
I just I just that makes sense.
I have like a knee jerkreaction to it.
And I definitely did that thingwhere, like, I left the church
(17:27):
at 18.
I had been going literally likeevery Sunday until I was 18.
Then I moved away and becamelike a heathen and then became
like a complete atheist.
Like I was like I was likethese fucking idiots, like can I
start your podcast?
Heathen.
And then became like a completeatheist.
Like I was like I was likethese fucking idiots, like can I
start your podcast?
But like, truly, it was likethe worst kind of atheist, where
it's almost like as bad as thefundamentalist, where you're
like these people are so stupidthey don't know.
(17:48):
And then I feel like, as I getolder, you like realize the
truth is actually somewhere inbetween those things yeah, like
you said so I still strugglewith religious language a lot,
but it's valid.
You know, I I would maybe use aterm like inspired artwork, but
that's just my own.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Like I said, it's just my own stuff I was telling
lauren like literally a coupledays ago, I was like, oh, I need
to give myself a little morepatience.
Um, I guess the word is likegrace, but I don't like that
word because I grew up with thatmeaning a whole bunch of other
things, and I mean one of thebig, one of the big struggles,
(18:28):
even when we started thispodcast for me was like the
concept of angels.
I'm like okay, come on yeahright now.
We've talked to so many peoplethat I'm like, oh cool, yeah,
like angels for sure.
But I was, like I told her, I'mlike I'm excited to get into
this podcast and talk to somepeople and learn about things,
but I'm going to have a hardtime with angels, let me tell
(18:50):
you and I don't know it's forthe same reason of, like, I have
a lot of deprogramming to do.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
That's exactly it.
It is it?
Deprogramming, that is such agood word for it, and so much of
this semantics do like angels,but then you have people talking
about like guides and ancestors, and those are much more like
palatable to me for some reason.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I mean they're not new, you know, they're not any
less like like woo, but for sureyeah yeah, they're words that
don't have, like historical orlike I don't know, maybe even a
trauma attached to it's, itsmeaning, it's to you and it was
um hijacked meaning yeah, yeah,yeah lots of baggage, lots of
(19:32):
baggage, lots of baggage, atleast for us.
So lilydale yeah, we gotta.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
We gotta make a trip to lilydale one day you said
that's in upstate new yorkabsolutely yes, it is in upstate
new york um it's like westernnew york, so um by lake erie,
like that sort of area like nextto lake erie is a very funny
place for a psychic city.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Perfect.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
We're we're going to be, we're going to just pretend
like we're okay with the termchanneling.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
So you're channeling these things and downloading
channeling.
Yeah, yeah, let's use all theterms.
And so you're getting these likevisuals in your mind's eye and
and then you like, just hold onto these things until you
actually get them on paper orwhat's up yeah, so sometimes
I'll do little sketches,sometimes I'll, like I said,
(20:23):
I'll write notes in my iphonejust and like truly detailed,
you know, like bottom rightcorner there's a trash can and
it's blue and purple the shadowsare purple like really detailed
.
So I remember later, um, butit's like, yeah, I have this
little list in my brain ofartworks that I'm going to make
that have just come to me and Itry to freeze frame them in the
(20:47):
moment.
So I remember what they are.
But yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Like okay, for example, the Wheel of Fortune,
what's it called?
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Rider-Waite is.
We don't talk about that one onthis show.
No, no, not today.
There's only one deck as far aswe're concerned.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I know it's true.
So, for example, for this, thisspider with a spider web
appeared in your mind and canyou tell me about like, like the
symbology of this oneespecially?
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Yeah, yeah, so I with the wheel of fortune.
Um, it does, my credits doalign with traditional I use
that term loosely, traditionalrider weight, smith imagery.
Um, in some ways I mean, thatwas definitely like the core
system that I learned and thenyou kind of can do your own
thing with it.
(21:46):
Um, and I tried to leave it upfor interpretation.
But in my mind the wheel offortune is all about surrender,
like if I had to pick a keywordfor that card.
It is like no matter where youare in the wheel sometimes
you're riding the highs andsometimes you're at a really low
point it will always changeagain.
So it's like you kind of haveto give in to the moment where
(22:09):
you are.
And I used the spider webbecause it's so, it's really
strong and it's also reallyfragile.
And I imagine it's reallystrong and it's also really
fragile.
And I imagine it's likesometimes you're the prey,
sometimes you're the spider, but, like you can see, there's
little parts of the web that arekind of like messed up or
destroyed or like repaired, andthen there's, there's, you can
(22:31):
see, like little insects wrappedup in it.
Yeah, the way I've suspendedthe spider web over the rushing
river, it's just, it's justprecarious, right, like there's
no solid ground to be found inthe scene, but there's also,
like, the rainbow at the top.
So it's this play of opposites,because it really is just about
(22:51):
giving in to where you are andgoing with that flow of life and
kind of going through thosemoments, like you said, frank,
with grace, um, and acceptancein a way.
Um, that's what that card is tome.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
That's so beautiful.
Damn it, John.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
What was the original ?
What?
What is the original mediumLike?
How did you initially makethese?
Oil pastel, that's my like.
Traditional, that's my mainmedium.
What?
What is the original?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
medium, like how did you initially make these?
Uh, oil pastel that's my liketraditional, that's my main
medium how big are the originals?
Um five by seven ish like fourpoint something by seven it's so
cool.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
We've just like stared at these cards, like
they're just so, they're sopretty hope.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I hope people use these cards for meditation.
That's like one of the uh, my,that's like one of my um
individual wishes for this deckis that I, I really want people
to spend time with it, and I'veseen video.
It's funny because people dothese unboxing videos.
It's like a whole thing intarot.
People do these unboxing videos.
(24:00):
It's like a whole thing intarot.
And, um, there are some videoswhere I see people they flip the
cards really quick and they'relike this is the queen of wands,
this is what it means.
This is the wheel of fortune,this is what it means.
This is the ace.
This is what it means.
And I'm like oh, that's fine ifyou want to do it that way, but
take just like, take time withit, just spend time with these
cards.
I, I want seasoned tarotreaders to be able to look again
at these archetypes that weknow so well.
(24:21):
Like that was one of my goalswith this is that not only can
beginners just look at it andinstantly be like oh the chariot
.
I get that there's movement andmomentum, but I want people who
know the cards to have to lookalso and kind of relearn them or
like reassess their owndefinitions of them.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Right, I mean, that makes sense, especially when you
see something so many times,for so long you start to not
even see it anymore.
You know, Right, exactly.
Like bringing a new, just a newvisual to like these old
meanings is so important, andespecially if it was, you know,
channeled, like you said.
You know you brought all ofthis like new ways to interpret
into it and it's, it's so nice.
(24:59):
Um, how long does it?
How long did it take you tojust like make one?
How long does it take?
Speaker 3 (25:05):
um, it varied.
The first card that I ever didwas the moon and it is the least
detailed of all the cards,because I didn't know what I was
doing at that point, so I justsure did a thing and it took
like eight hours.
Um, wow, the other cards tookmuch longer, especially like
you'll see they become.
(25:25):
They can become very detailed,like by the end.
I would say that I would spendlike a couple weeks on a card,
um just sketching it out andlike testing colors and figuring
things out.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, yeah, eight hours, eight hours minimum, and
people are just flipping them.
Oh, look at this one.
Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
So yeah, there's a lot of thought that goes into
them, and I hope that peoplegive them the same amount of
thought when they're readingthem.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
That's like.
That's like fast forwardingthrough the Beatles discography
and be like I don't do that?
That sounds pretty good.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
I guess.
But then a lot of people do getit, I have to say.
A lot of people also do taketheir time and they and they go
into the paintings and reallyunderstand them.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
That's nice.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Um, yeah, I.
Another thing I want to ask youabout is your suits are
uncommon.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Was that another like channel thing, or no Suits are
because I saw yeah, we've gotspires, branches, stones and
what's the other one?
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Spires, branches, stones and tides for cups Tides
right.
Okay, yeah, they all correspondwith the traditional suits.
I hate it when people changesuit names.
I literally it bothers me somuch.
But I tried to figure out a wayto make those names work for
(26:52):
this deck but it just didn'tLike.
With the landscape imagery andstuff it was too the traditional
names were too human oriented,um, just like when you have like
swords.
If I'm thinking like, how doesthat manifest in the natural
landscape?
right it just wasn't.
It just didn't fit like I.
(27:12):
I gave it a lot of thought andand I changed them okay so now
I'm one of those people thatmakes sense?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
I don't know.
You know, I gotta remember thisis a podcast, not always visual
.
Um, the majority of these arelike, yeah, landscape focused,
they're landscape oriented.
Um, god, I'm just looking atyour judgment card.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
I love that one so much oh thanks, new orleans,
have you all been?
Yeah, yeah, of course yeah,that was my favorite.
That's one of my favoriteplaces same has a full episode.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
It was like a storytelling episode.
And after he came back from neworleans, because, oh, because
you had a tarot card readingthat was like profound, that's
like my first, like professionaltarot reading, and I was like
that's cool, yeah, that thattrip like shifted something.
Oh yeah, for sure, in here, inhere in your heart that little
(28:05):
tiny, little tiny heart of mine.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
So, yeah, I mean, I love, I was looking at this and
I'm just obsessed with them.
Like that is it?
That's a I don't want to say aperfect card, even.
It's just a perfect image thatyou, you created.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
You, you brought something amazing to the world
there yeah, thank you so that'sthat let me new orleans is also
a very profound place.
I I also had a profoundexperience in new orleans um
with a reading, although itwasn't a tarot reading.
I got my coconut shells read,oh say more by a voodoo priest
named Charlie.
Oh, my God, and um, and it wasreally profound, it was really
(28:42):
revelatory.
Like um, he said that I had apresence with me.
There was an.
It was an older female presencewho had died 10 years previous
and we, through conversation, wedetermined it to be my
grandmother, who I, um, I had alot of guilt associated with her
(29:04):
passing because I was incollege at the time.
She got sick, thank, aroundThanksgiving and I wasn't home
and she had passed by Christmas.
And so I, literally, by thetime I got there, she was like
in hospice, unresponsive, youknow, I like was there, I said
my words to her in her ear, butit was not the ending that
(29:29):
should have been, you know.
And so I definitely had a lotof unresolved feelings and
emotions with that.
But Charlie, the voodoo priest,picked up on this and he was
like she's always with you,she's always in your corner, but
(29:50):
you need to acknowledge thatpresence more.
And he showed me how to do anancestor service, which I had
never even heard of before,honestly.
And he was like, just go home,put on some music that you and
your grandmother would havelistened to, or put on a movie
that you would have liked, eatsome of your favorite foods,
light a candle, just talk to heras if she's there.
And at the time I left and youknow my very skeptical,
(30:12):
overthinking brain was like,okay, well, you know, everybody
has a grandmother who passed.
But I went home and I did thething and, regardless of whether
or not you believe that you areactually communing with spirits
or just your own subconsciousiterations, it was such a moving
(30:33):
experience, emotionalexperience.
I have ancestor servicesliterally all the time.
Now I have, I have a little boxthat has little tiny pictures
of all the people in my lifewho've passed, who've been
meaningful to me, and, um, Iwill often, at holidays or on
birthdays I'll like, select one.
I'll, you know, get theirfavorite food, I'll watch a
(30:55):
movie that they would have liked.
Sometimes I'll even dedicate mydaily art practice to one of
them.
You know whose traits I wouldwant to embody that day.
It's become a really importantpart of my, of my spiritual
practice.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Okay, I'm trying to not get emotional, but today's
my day.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
You're allowed.
It was.
It's an emotional thing.
And I highly recommend I highlyrecommend doing what I just
said.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Yeah.
Today's my brother's birthdayand he passed 20 years ago, and
so on his birthday we always doSorry.
No, it's okay, it's funny timingthat you brought that up,
because we always do like mydaughter was like oh, we got to
get maple donuts for Uncle Ian'sbirthday and you know we always
(31:43):
do like a lot of things that hewould have enjoyed and we like
celebrate him, we say like happybirthday, we do a little cheers
, so I love that.
It's like just kind of perfect.
Of course, yeah, there are nocoincidences that you mentioned
that, but yeah, that's so, it'sso cool and it's such a great
(32:03):
way to like keep their memory,sorry, keep their memory like
present and keep their likelegacy or their, their story
alive, especially with, you know, younger ones or people who
didn't know them, stuff likethat.
Yeah, that's so cool that'sit's also so.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
I'm in the middle of reading a book about like um,
doing that, like what you'resaying, like like I don't I
don't want to call it ancestryreverence I suppose like making
like a little bit of an altar.
I love that you have.
Can you explain your setupagain real quick?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
you have a little box with the like pictures in it
yes, since you ask, we're in myart studio right now, so I have
it.
I have it handy, but um, so Ihave this little box.
Actually, this was gifted to meby ad.
We're very connected, so it's alittle box and it has.
It's just beautiful.
(33:02):
There's like some herbs in it,there's a little essential oil
thing, but then it came withthis little picture frame and
you can see little.
I have all these little picturesof people who are important to
me, and so, yeah, I'll selectone or a group of them and put
them in the frame, and then Ihave my little candle that I
(33:23):
light and, yeah, it just isright there on my shelf while
I'm working.
This is where I work, where Ido all my art I love that Wow, I
have.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
That just gave Frank some ideas.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
I've got the perfect little box for this.
It's already right over there.
I have a whole thing for it.
I keep like my sage and like mylike house smudging things and
my cleansing things and a couplelike crystals and stuff like
that and and uh, I've been.
I'm like, where am I going toset up this?
Like I didn't want to have likea permanent, like oh, basically
(33:58):
like where do I?
Where do I keep this stuff?
Because, yeah, like one of mygrandparents I'm just getting
into like being a Reikipractitioner and one of my
grandparents did like healinghand stuff in Cuba and I'm like,
oh, I should probably like talkto that guy.
Yeah, so I wanted to do.
Yeah, I wanted to do exactlythat and I love this format.
(34:19):
That's perfect.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
That's like a little cigar box.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Oh, what an idea.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
There it is.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
There it is.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
I'm sure I can probably ask my dad.
He probably has a box of Cohibasomewhere or something that I
can, that's perfect, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Has a box of cojibas somewhere or something that I
can?
That's perfect.
Yeah, yeah, it is important,though it is important, I think,
these little rituals like Isaid, regardless of what anyone
believes you're taking thoughtand physicalizing it in the
world, which just has so muchpower, and I don't think people
give it enough credit and wecertainly don't practice
ancestor reverence enough inthis country oh, no way I mean,
(35:05):
we see how we treat our eldersgenerally here, but it's so
important in other places in theworld and and I get it like I
understand why- yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I mean, you're carrying so much story and
history and trauma with you fromyour ancestors and I think part
of like healing that is payingattention to it and giving it
some kind of like honoring,Because you I think you were you
were pretty like resistant tokind of like digging up stuff.
(35:40):
You're like, well, why do Ihave to do it?
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Well listen, I grew up in America, so toxic
individualism is built into mybones.
Okay, and and also as someonewho, like, tries to, you know,
live into my own personalsovereignty and all that I'm
like, and who didn't really havea really established
(36:03):
relationship with the majorityof my grandparents for various
reasons, it's like, well, Idon't need that stuff anyway,
right, but then I'm also justnot respecting the entire story
of how I got here and what I'mabout and what I'm bringing into
the world, at least from a veryfoundational, like genetic
level at the very least.
So like acknowledging and then,and then that's not even to
(36:27):
mention what they did with theirlives.
And you know, I'm, I'm, I'm onboth sides.
There's immigration thatoccurred and it's I can't just
like ignore that.
You know, right, and and andwith that immigration come, came
along like, and what I wish Ihad more access to is some of
that, some of that folk magic,some of that that like cultural.
(36:48):
You know, it's like they came toamerica and suddenly, and then
you know, there was a connectionthat was lost at some point,
and now I'm just a clean slateof, you know, cheeseburgers and
I'm trying to tap into, I, I'm,I'm very much like culturally
just straight American Right,even though my dad, like, was
born in Cuba.
(37:09):
So there's a part of me thatalmost feels like if I were to
inherit some of that, those, andthen my mom, my mom's side, is
from Scotland.
There's a part of me if I'mlike oh yeah, I want to get like
some Celtic tattoos or like, ifI want to um, I don't know,
like like practice, some like umSanteria or something it feels.
It feels inauthentic to mebecause I had never had any real
(37:30):
access to that.
The foundation.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
You don't even click, you don't even put like
Hispanic or Latino on your likeapplications or anything.
I do sometimes if I really want, if I really want the job.
Half Cuban.
I'm always like what Frank like, he's like I don't know, I just
(37:52):
put white yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Because culturally I'm not genetically, I am like
like a mixed, you know, yeah.
So the whole thing of like atthe found on a foundational
level, because culturally I'mnot genetically, I am like like
a mixed, you know, yeah, so thewhole thing of like at the found
on a foundational level, like,at least on, I know for sure, on
my, my dad's side, the Cubanside, there was a little bit of
like folk magic and healingstuff.
And I, if I, if I don't havethe cultural element of that I
still have, I can still ask forthe help.
(38:15):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Yeah, and also, and also and also.
You know, it's not about like Idon't I.
It's not about being beholdento the past because, like the
story is now yours to take inwhatever direction you choose,
like there's nothing wrong witheating cheeseburgers and you
know, living your american dreamor whatever it is, but, but
it's just, it's more recognizingthat you are continuing a story
that was going long before youwere around, you know and you're
(38:43):
going to leave something foryour chosen heirs long after.
So, um, yeah, I I.
If that takes the pressure off,I hope yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
I just love your setup and I'm going to copy you,
sorry.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
I hope you do it's.
It's really lovely.
I mean, I it.
It makes it so much moreintentional each day to do my
work and dedicate that practiceto, to the memory of somebody.
Um, especially if there's sometrait that I want to embody, if,
like, like, I know that mygreat grandmother worked her ass
off, so, like, if there's a daywhere I wake up and I'm like I
(39:21):
don't want to sit and do thistoday, like, great-grandma, give
me that, give me that energy,like we're gonna dedicate this
practice to you.
Um, who would like, even whenshe had like lost her sight, was
like blindly, like cutting thenoodles for the dinner you know
what I mean.
Like it's that sort of thing.
And like then I have friendswho are like creative engines
(39:41):
and and they pass and I'm like,okay, I need some of that like
creative inspiration today.
So it really is like a lovelyintentional practice and I hope
that it is meaningful to you toono, that's, that's really great
.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
I love that because I've heard people say like, oh,
you know, I we had a guest and Ican't remember who it was at
this moment.
But, um, they said they hadlike, oh, I put my grandfather
on my spirit team and I put,cause he's really good at
business and I put this personon my spirit team because
(40:16):
they're good at this.
It might've been Lucy Jane, butanyway, oh, that's right person
on my spirit team becausethey're good at this might've
been Lucy Jane, but anyway, oh,that's right she was.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
I was like she's one of the few people I'm like.
Wait, you are, you're in chargeof your roster.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
You're like spirit team, like lineup, yeah, but the
way you're putting it, um, justhelps me because there's like a
tangible, there's a practice tothat.
That helps me put the intentionin there with like I don't know
(40:51):
the physical thing of your boxand the picture, and going like,
okay, I'm going to choose youto like kind of, I'm going to
draw inspiration from yourpersonality or your like these
traits that you strongly havethat I maybe don't, as well as
(41:12):
you do.
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Just to remember where you came from, that's
great.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
So I mean, you got your first tarot deck in 2018.
I mean, if I got, I'd be like,oh, I'm a, I still I'm like, I'm
a baby witch.
I'm a baby witch, but you,you're now, you're already like,
like making your mark in thiscommunity, right, um, what's
been like the thing it?
Has there been a thing that haslike helped you in your like
(41:39):
practice or your development themost, aside from just studying
tarot like you did?
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Well, illustrating a deck for five years gives you a
very deep understanding of thecards in a more intimate way
than I ever even thoughtpossible.
I have such a profound respectfor tarot now it's really
fascinating doing any projectfor that long, but like
(42:05):
especially this that deals withall these archetypes and these
situations that come up over andover again in our lives,
because innumerable times Iwould be illustrating a card and
then something would happen inmy life and I'd be like oh well,
I'm right here where this, thiscard is, and you just realize
how much wisdom is encapsulatedin these little 78 cards.
(42:27):
It really is a distillation of,like great wisdom from
thousands of years ago.
You know like, like it truly isand when I say it, it it really
does offer solutions for everyproblem that you can come up
against in your life.
Like it's all there.
(42:48):
And that's really shocking tome, because it's easy to just be
like, oh, tarot, like it's afun game or like no, it's legit.
There's like so much thoughtand so many hundreds, thousands
of years of like the humancondition put into these cards.
It's really startling, likewhen you really start to start
(43:12):
to study it I like, really do.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
I like to study people and their decision making
and all that stuff, right andlike I, I am unable to
psychoanalyze the tarot deck.
I'm like I don't know wherethis came from.
This is like this is next level, shit right, it's not that
simple.
I, like a part of me is alwayswants to be like well, in any
given situation, you knowthere's only a couple of choices
(43:37):
you could make and they're alllisted here and nope, nope,
there's a lot going on here.
It's way more than that is notthat simple, and it's always
exactly what you need, which islike the most amazing part.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
I love it so much.
So, while you were illustratingthem, there would be things
that you're like oh there's, I'mlearning, I'm getting the same
message from this one that I'mworking on, Just like it always
feels like serendipitous, butthe messages are coming through
while you're working on them.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
Yeah, it happened all the time.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
And.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
I would be like there's a card for everything.
I think that's the other thing.
There's like a card for everysituation that you can be in.
I'd oh well, I'm in the youknow seven of pentacles today.
Like it and um.
I took a class during thepandemic from harvard online um,
(44:30):
it was on predictive systems,and a whole section of that
class went into, like, thehistory of tarot and astrology
and where all of these wisdom,traditions and divination
systems met, um, like back inthe fertile crescent, and it
really did allow me to realizethat back then people, would you
(44:53):
know, come to oracles, almostlike people go to therapists,
like they would come with theirproblems and eventually, like
these people figured out they'rethe right ways.
There are.
There are certain ways to liveyour life that just are better
than others, and I feel likethat wisdom is like carried
(45:13):
through in all these differenttraditions and now they're
distilled into 78 cards.
But it, yeah, it's just, it'simmense.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
I'm still surprised by it every day yeah sometimes,
even though I'm just not feelinggreat, I'll just grab my deck
and I'll go to like pull a cardand I'll get distracted.
But sometimes just holding mydeck makes me feel better.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
I'm like it's like you're you're a blankie like
you're adult it's a little bitof a blankie.
Yeah, let's ignore my historyof cod'm.
Like it's like you're.
You're a blankie like you'readult it's a little bit of a
blankie.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Yeah, let's ignore my history of codependence.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
It's fine um are any of these meant to be, or are
they meant to be read upright,or do you do reversed at all?
Speaker 3 (45:56):
um, I personally don't do reversals in my own
readings, because I tend to talkabout the reversals anyway.
When I'm explaining cards topeople or reading, I tend to
give them both sides of itanyway, but there's no right or
wrong way.
People can read reversals ifthey would like.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
I've started to actually, when we pull cards,
I've started to read both theupright and reversal, because it
feels like the entire picture.
It feels like it gives you likethe here's where you're at and
here's where things could bedifferent if you do the thing or
whatever it might be right.
Like it's like the totalpicture of it yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
I'm now understanding .
I just realized the title ofyour oops, the title of your
oops, the title of your deckmindscapes, because you said
they show up in your mind.
I love that.
Speaker 3 (46:48):
And actually Kevin came up with that title.
Kevin, he's responsible for allmy good ideas.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
I'm telling you, he's just the man in the chair.
He's sitting behind you withhis fingers like this.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
He's like Oz yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
He's like next, john, you're going to do this.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
John, you don't need a deck, just ask me, kevin.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
I know your next move , the mastermind, the mastermind
, the mastermind.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
That's amazing, John.
Do you use your own deck?
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Yeah, yeah, he was just shuffling.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Is it interesting to use your own deck I was talking
earlier about, especially withRider Waite?
We use these cards all the timeand it's like, oh, I've seen
this and you forget to reallylook at it.
Do you look deeply into yourown pictures?
Speaker 3 (47:47):
Yes, forget to like really look at it, do you are
you?
Do you like look deeply intoyour own pictures?
Yes, because, um, I think,because it is such a
non-traditional system.
Um, when I'm doing a spread, Istill do have to think about how
the cards relate to one anotherand how, like one might be
informing something else.
But also, this deck is stillpretty new to me.
I've only had it in printedform for like a little over a
month, so I haven't been able toread with it for that long, and
so I am learning with it too.
But, I do like the way it reads.
(48:08):
I definitely can get reallygood readings out of it and I've
been getting really positivefeedback from others, so it's
great.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
That's awesome.
Yeah, wait, what was the cardyou you pulled, though.
Speaker 3 (48:21):
Okay.
So I woke up this morning and Iwas like I've been in kind of a
a little bit of a funk lately,which is so crazy because I do
have the deck that just came out.
I have another book coming outnext month but I felt like, um,
a little bit in like a nebulousarea and I was like I'm really
(48:42):
in like a moon place with themoon is like the dark night of
the soul.
It's about unknown mystery andhaving to just put one foot
forward, one foot in front ofthe other, to just keep going
and trust that what is waitingon the other side is is right
and worth it.
But you have to keep movingforward, even when it feels
paralyzing and scary.
And I was like I'm going topull a card for this podcast and
(49:05):
I shuffled the crap out of thisdeck and I pulled the moon card
Isn't that wild.
I split the deck, I shuffled itin two piles, I cut it multiple
times and that was the cardthat was right on top I would
say it's wild if it hasn'thappened to me a hundred times
before I know that's true,that's true, like, like.
The thing that shows up is thething like, of course, of course
(49:28):
yeah one foot in front of theother yeah, so that could be the
card for me, though, because Ifeel that's.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
I've felt that same feeling that you were explaining
in the last few days too.
I came home from a trip twodays ago and I was like I don't
know, I just have this pit in mystomach.
I was alone, without any plans,and I was like who am I?
(49:56):
You should call Kevin.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
I know who am I, you know you should call Kevin.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
I know I'll call Kevin.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Kevin, what do I do next?
Well, I think I also sawsomething like, astrologically,
there's a lot like the beginningof August is supposed to be too
busy to um, we're uh over, uhcommitted, kind of thing.
So, and overwhelmed, so I couldI I'm no astrologer, but I
would imagine that that mighthave something to do with it.
And on top of all that, you,just you just dropped a deck.
Speaker 3 (50:36):
I just dropped the deck.
It's the whole, it's the um.
That old saying jump in the netwill appear like that is the
embodiment of that card um, john, do me a favor.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Tell everybody where to find you and, and, and what
your upcoming projects are howto buy this deck yeah, sure,
well, uh.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
So the deck is available.
Wherever you buy books, you canget it.
I encourage people to go totheir local indie bookstore,
metaphysical shop.
You can ask for it if theydon't have it.
But you can also find it at thebig ones, at Barnes, noble and
Amazon, blah, blah, blah.
And you can find me mostly onInstagram.
It's just my name, johnawritesFacebook.
(51:17):
My website iswwwjarstudionyccom.
Um.
But instagram, I would say, iswhere I mostly post my stuff.
That's where, like my, myportfolio, I would say.
You can find me on tiktok, ifyou're young or pretending to be
like me or or pretendingExactly yes.
(51:42):
And then, in terms of futureprojects, I have a book coming
out next month.
It is called October Shadowsclassic ghost stories for
Halloween, and I actually havethat.
I have a copy of that righthere too, which I can show you
like the cover of.
Can you see that?
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (51:57):
That looks amazing.
That's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (51:59):
It's all illustrated on autumn leaves, so I don't
know if you can see it let mefind it.
Oh my god let me find a goodone to show you are these?
Speaker 2 (52:07):
are these original stories or are these collected
stories?
Speaker 3 (52:10):
no, like this is the fall of the house of usher by
edgar allen poe.
So can you see?
This is that.
Can you see that?
Yeah, yes so so it's all onautumn, leaves um, and there's
15 stories, 15 differentoriginal illustrations.
I'm super excited about it.
I think it's gonna be reallycool.
That is awesome yeah, so, andit's.
(52:32):
The publisher is abbevillepress.
They're great.
Yeah, they're an.
They're an art book publisherand they bound it in crushed
black silk, like I don't know ifyou can see.
It's stunning, it's like just abeautiful book.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
So if you like.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
Halloween.
You like Halloween.
You like heirloom bookkeepsakes, october Shadows,
classic ghost stories forHalloween.
And then I'm actually workingon a new card deck that is all
channeled artwork from themediums cabinet.
(53:06):
We didn't even talk about this.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
The mediums cabinet.
What is this?
Speaker 3 (53:11):
so the last time I was in Lilydale.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
God bless them like an actual cabinet, like a
spiritualist cabinet, like aspiritualist cabinet.
Speaker 3 (53:20):
Automatic drawings from seances that I had in
Lillydale.
There's still much to talkabout.
We need to come back for a parttwo or something.
We do I have a deck of cardsthat is all automatic drawings
during those received sessionsduring those seances.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
What.
Speaker 3 (53:41):
Actually, I don't know that I've told anybody
about that yet, so you might bethe first to hear about it.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
A Claire Voyaging exclusive.
Very cool.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
Oh, no Wait.
I feel like maybe it would befun to have you and Adrian.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
Okay, why don't we get you back on to push the book
a little bit, and we'll haveAdrian on too, you guys can?
Don't we get you back on topush the book a little bit, and
we'll have Adrian on too, youguys can?
Speaker 1 (54:01):
And tell us about the cabinets.
Speaker 3 (54:04):
Cool, yeah, I will.
It's sort of its own uniquestory, but also, again, very
aligned with what you guys aredoing here.
Speaker 2 (54:14):
Oh, so fun.
That's awesome.
I'm excited about that.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
We'll get a little more spooky.
Speaker 3 (54:19):
we'll get a little more like spooky we'll get more
spooky, a little more spooky.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
Yes, it does okay it's funny too, because I was
gonna ask you if, like you still, because a lot of times people
get into, like you know, moreesoteric and and woo-woo stuff
and then, um, I, they just stopliking horror and oh, and I
think they are the opposite.
I'm like oh no, I love thisstuff Like scare me.
But sometimes, especially ifI'm watching like like videos on
(54:44):
YouTube or something of like,this spooky thing happened, like
top five scary things thathappened this week, and I'm
watching that stuff and I'm halfthe time I'm laughing.
I'm like oh that ghost justwanted to say hi.
Sometimes I'm like oh, oh,that's gross.
Speaker 3 (54:59):
But yeah, yeah, no, I'm still still a big horror fan
here.
You know what it has done.
It has made me like when I'mwriting a horror script or
something, if I'm writing likeabout tarot cards or like a
psychic, I'm like damn, I knowthat's not real, I know that's
not it works.
I know tarot cards are gatewaysfor demons.
(55:20):
Like I can't use that anymoreas like a horror movie trope.
Yeah, you know you kind of havea deeper respect for a lot of
things that are just verycasually tossed around in horror
.
Um, but no, I still enjoy thegenre.
Speaker 2 (55:34):
I will say we've been in like one like writer's room.
That was a loose room forwriting like a horror script,
and we were.
I was like, oh, let's give this, let's give the, the big bad
like some good motivation here.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
We were bringing, like the, the true paranormal,
like element to the, thewriter's room.
Speaker 2 (55:55):
Yeah, it was like it was probably what happened to
your, your ghost, like he's ademon.
Speaker 3 (55:59):
We were like no, this was a real person who like
whatever.
Speaker 2 (56:09):
Exactly, yeah, yeah, it's always trauma.
Yeah, john, let's catch upreally soon and we'll talk more.
Speaker 3 (56:17):
It sounds awesome.
Yeah, I mean, it's my pleasure.
Thank you so much for speakingwith me.
Speaker 1 (56:21):
Thank you, it was so great to meet you Again.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
Thank you for sending the deck.
It's beautiful and everyone goget one.
Mindscapes.
Speaker 1 (56:28):
Mindscapes Tarot.
Go pick it up today.
Thank you, John.
Speaker 2 (56:32):
Thank you both so much.
Thank you for listening.
Visit clairevoyagingcom formerchandise or to access free
resources to help you on yourspiritual journey.
Subscribe to our Patreon formore content or join for free to
chat with us.
Claire Voyaging is a fiscallysponsored project of Fractured
Atlas, a 501c3 charity.
(56:54):
Make a tax-deductible donationto support our mission to foster
understanding, respect andcuriosity for diverse spiritual
belief systems.
Claire Voyaging is a productionof Wayfeather Media.
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