096: Astrology As A Healing Map // with Annie Bertrand

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What if your higher self wrote your birth chart as a map for healing and purpose? In this episode, we talked with ancestral astrologer and energy healer Annie Bertrand. She shares how her Saturn return sparked a spiritual awakening, how energy healing pulled ancestral baggage from her body, and why she reads the North Node first to uncover destiny and direction.

We unpack the difference between pop horoscopes and real chart work—rising signs, houses, Mercury for communication—and then follow the thread into family patterns. Annie shows how repeating signs across a lineage flag shared lessons, how synastry reveals past-life bonds, and how a child’s Moon and Venus can transform daily parenting. Expect tangible takeaways: a “return to sender” ritual for empaths, ways to spot karmic checkpoints during eclipses and retrogrades, and a clearer map for navigating free will within fate.

Annie also opens up about past-life memories that resurfaced as anxiety after her daughter’s birth, and the visualization tools she used to resolve them. We test these ideas against our own Aquarius and Capricorn-heavy household, comparing notes on creative flow, Virgo Moon tendencies, and what it takes to break cycles without accidentally reinforcing them. If you’ve ever wondered how astrology, energy work, and generational healing intersect, this conversation offers a grounded, actionable path forward.

To learn more or to work with Annie:

Visit: anniebertrand.com

Clairvoyaging is now a fiscally sponsored project of Fractured Atlas, a 501(c)(3) charity, so any donations are now tax deductible. If you’d like to support our projects that aim to foster understanding for diverse spiritual belief systems, visit www.clairvoyaging.com/support. 

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Episode Transcript

Lauren (00:21):
Seasons greetings, my little dewdrops.
In today's episode, we talkedto Annie Bertrand, an ancestral
astrologer and energy healer.
We talked about birth charts,generational trauma, and past
lives, and started digging alittle deeper into astrology and
what it all means.
I'm Lauren Leon.

Frank (00:40):
And I'm Too Hot! God damn.
Say my name and know who I am.
I'm too hot! Hot damn.
Make a uh what's the What isit?
Make a Dragon Warnerretirement.
I'm too hot! Hot damn.
I'm a bad about that money.
Break it down.
Sounds good, sounds ahallelujah.

(01:05):
It's up, Tab Funk, don't giveit to me.
That's enough.

Lauren (01:10):
We are a married couple.
Good old Frankie Boy here,learning how to develop our own
intuition.
And this is episode 96 ofClaire Voyaging.
Okay.

Frank (01:50):
There was a break between every line where I said, wait,
what's the next words?

Lauren (01:56):
Wait, I forgot everything.

Frank (01:57):
How's it go?

Lauren (01:58):
You want me to look up the lyrics?
No, no, no.
No, no, no.
I got this.
I got it.

Frank (02:01):
I got this.

Lauren (02:02):
Hi, everybody.

Frank (02:03):
Hey, what's going on?

Lauren (02:04):
Welcome to Claire Voyaging.
We never know what you're gonnaget.
Just like a box of chocolates.

Frank (02:11):
And sometimes those chocolates may have expired.

Lauren (02:17):
Guys, we got a great show.
Annie's a great guest.
I'm gonna just say before weget to that, a couple of notes.
We've gotten more five-starreviews.
Yay! And every time you do it,it helps us show up in searches
and makes us grow and all thatfun stuff.

Frank (02:37):
And fairies come back to life.

Lauren (02:39):
And fairies multiply by the numbers.

Frank (02:43):
Um don't ask how that happens.

Lauren (02:44):
I don't know.
It's magic.

Also, just a reminder (02:46):
come join the Claire Voyaging Patreon
community, and it's only $4 permonth.
That's so cheap! It's true.
You know, we like to post likebehind the scenes stuff, extra
little clips.
We've got a new one, mostlyjust us talking about Star Wars.
So you never know.

(03:08):
Again, you never know whatyou're gonna get.

Frank (03:11):
I might call it an argument.
I might call it an argumentabout it.

Lauren (03:15):
It's a hot debate.

Frank (03:18):
What happens when one one hot take runs into another hot
take?

Lauren (03:23):
Sometimes we have these conversations like in our intro
recording, and obviously it'snever gonna, it's not gonna make
it to air.

Frank (03:30):
It shouldn't.

Lauren (03:31):
We're not gonna we're not gonna include it on the
podcast.
Where's that conversation gonnago?
Who's gonna side with who?
Sometimes there's a hot debatethat has to go on the internet,
of course, because why not?
So Patreon is where it lives.

Frank (03:46):
And who are you gonna choose?
The darkness or the light.

Lauren (03:52):
Okay, I have one more thing to say, you guys.
This isn't about Star Wars, Ipromise.
We're about to change things upand buckle up.
I hope you're ready.

Frank (04:02):
We are also buckling up, because I'm not sure if we are.

Lauren (04:05):
We don't know, but we're about to take an adventure.
We are coming up on our 100thepisode.
Uh what?

Frank (04:11):
Wait, yeah.
Hey, thank you so much.
Oh my god.
Wow.

Lauren (04:19):
Okay, okay.
Sit down, everyone.
Uh so we want this next season,what long season, or phase of
our show, something like that,to move into something new.
So, what we're gonna do isfewer guest episodes and more
deep dives into specific topicsand themes of self-healing and

(04:41):
integration.
And so we will have more to sayon all of this, but just wanted
to give you a heads heads up.
Heads heads up.
That's the heads up before youget the heads up.
Times two.
Heads, heads up.
That's not a thing, but it'sgonna be a thing, and I'm gonna
force it to be a thing.
Great.
Let's go to the show.

(05:03):
God, and now it's time to hitplay for the show.
Send it.
Please send it.
Talk to Annie.

Frank (05:14):
Oh my uh, I've never been this scared.

Lauren (05:18):
And now we are off like a rocket.
Annie, thank you so much forjoining us today.
We're excited to talk to youand hear your story and talk
about astrology.
Because I feel like we haven'tgotten too into it over here on
the podcast.
So we like to start with alittle backstory.

(05:40):
Can you give us yours and likehow'd you get into all of this?

Annie (05:46):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you both for having me.
So, hello, everybody.
So, my name is Annie.
My story, all this journey,started during my Saturn return.
So, if you've ever heard thisbefore, basically around the
ages of 29 to 30, Saturn willcome and mess it right in up if
you're not in alignment andlike, you know, living according
to what you think you should bedoing.

(06:07):
Saturn is like, ha ha, that'scute.
And so that's what happened tome.
My daughter was born, and shewas my second.
And after her birth, her birth,I had really severe postpartum
depression.
And it just opened my eyes tothe whole world.
It was very much of myspiritual awakening.
I was like, oh my goodness, theworld is corrupt, it's poison,
the air, the food, everything.
And it was just very muchcontributing to my postpartum

(06:30):
depression.
Um, and then I used to work inpharmaceutical marketing at the
time, and that was completelylike blown open.
And I was like, oh my goodness,I don't believe this industry.
I can't support this.
So very much of a dark night ofthe soul.
And I was looking for answers,and I've always loved astrology.
And then by this time, so mydaughter was born at the end of
2017.
So I had about two years ofjust like a really rough time.

(06:52):
I was starting to get better,and then COVID happened.
And then I was like, oh mygoodness, like the world.
So I was looking for justinsights.
I was feeling very frazzled.
I had two young kids.
I was like, the world is onfire and I've brought kids into
this world.
Like, what, oh my God, youknow?
So that's how I turned toastrology because I was like, I
need, I need some futureinsights here.
And then so this reader that Imet, and she basically told me
she was like, Oh, you're comingup on a really big like time

(07:15):
period work-wise.
I was like, Yeah, I'm alreadykind of in it.
She's like, Yeah, but you'regonna meet a mentor and it's
gonna change everything and it'sgonna put you on like a
different path for your work.
So I was like, okay.
So that was kind of in my likeperipheral.
And then my friend sent me aFacebook group.
It was this thing, thischallenge, like star seed
accelerator, whatever.
And it was just like, oh mygoodness, it's like everything,
like so many answers, so much oflike explained who I was.

(07:36):
And the teacher, she wasteaching energy healing.
And so I had a session withher, and I'm not even joking
you, in one session, Icompletely changed.
Like I just liberated so muchancestral baggage.
I changed from being like apessimist, like my whole life to
an optimist.
Like I said to you guys, I'm aSagittarius rising, like I'm
optimistic by nature, but I wassuper pessimistic because of my

(07:57):
whole baggage and my likeupbringing and everything.
I was hating motherhood becauseit's just been such a rough
time.
And I'm not even joking, likeone session I went from hating
motherhood to actually likeenjoying it.
So I was like, I need to learnthis healing modality.
Like, this is amazing.
Um, so I did.
So I did three years oftraining of energy healing.
And in my last year, the mostlike advanced healer training,

(08:17):
we were doing past life stuff,and I was in my past life
records, and I realized that Ihad been an astrologer in a past
life.
Um so I was like, oh, thismakes so much sense.
Why I've always felt called toit.
And so I was basically like,okay, well, let's like, you
know, bring that back in.
So I started doing astrology,like learning, but then I also
had to download to just combinethe two of taking astrology as a
map for healing, because that'sit, I understand of the karmic

(08:40):
contracts and souls and allthat.
So I see astrology as a healingmap, and then that's it.
That's the map, and then I doancestral healing and and all
that.
So yeah, that's kind of whatbrought me here the last five
years, six years, I guess.

Lauren (08:52):
Oh my gosh.
What a great backstory.
That's so fascinating to seelike how how you actually got
into it.

Frank (09:01):
That is cool.

Lauren (09:02):
That's so cool.

Frank (09:03):
Does your does your ancestral healing um like
modality have an a name?

Annie (09:10):
Yeah, so it's called the decodes modality.
Um yeah, I don't the disruptorcodes, that's how my teacher
calls it.
Um, but yeah, it's very similarto, I would say, I kind of work
very similarly to like talktherapy.
It's like get on and like talkwith people.
But then the energy healing,there's a lot of visualizations
and like actually, you know,going back to the moment in time

(09:31):
and kind of like rewriting it,pulling emotions out of our
body, um, things like that.
And I'm also I'm a medicalmedium, so my body mimics it
shows me what's going on inother people's bodies.
So I'll be like, oh, tell meabout like your left shoulder
pain.
And then I'm like, ah, this ispain from you know, all the
stress that you've been carryingin your life.
So tell me about your worklife.
And it's kind of all goes thatway.

(09:52):
So yeah.

Frank (09:54):
I apologize in advance.
We both are very tired today.
If you tap into us, you'regonna fall asleep right this
evening.

Annie (09:59):
So I really don't.
I don't unless I'm like insessions with people.
I used to, that's very muchlike, I don't know if you've,
I'm sure you've heard this inyour conversations that people
talk about being an empath.
Um, so that's very much of myabilities, is very much being an
empath, but I've thankfullylearned how to shut it like on
and off because that's it.
I used to be a walking littlesponge, and I'd be like, Oh, I'm
so tired, or like I have aheadache, I must have all these

(10:20):
headaches.
And then I would hear someonesay, like, I have a headache,
and I was like, damn it, it'syour headache.
So now I don't do that anymore.
I really consciously do it.
So I've kind of reclaimed thatempathy.
And it is a superpower when Ican tap in and out, but yeah, I
don't, I don't do it.
Like, I'm not walking littlesponge anymore.
Thank God.
Good for you, yeah.

Frank (10:38):
I've been I've been reading so much lately about
people talking about how peopleum those who are naturally
empathic are actually designedfor energy healing and and
designed for like the types ofmodalities that you're
practicing, and that you know,unhealed or unaddressed, like it
becomes an internalized and youget pain and and and chronic
issues.
But if you learn how to use it,you're like made for this shit.

Lauren (11:00):
Exactly.
Exactly.

Annie (11:01):
That's exactly.
I'm so glad that yeah, you readthat.
That's exactly it.
And so many people who are likeso anxious or that they're
like, I'm an empath.
I'm like, you're actually justpsychic AF, and that's it.
You're pulling in all thisenergy and you're feeling it,
but you don't know what to dowith it.
And therefore your body issaying, Hey, this is anxiety.
It's feeling like anxietybecause it's just too much to
hold.
So yeah.

Lauren (11:22):
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
What what do you it justsounded like a record?

Frank (11:30):
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
Lords in the house.

Lauren (11:35):
Um do you is there uh a modality name for the energy
healing?
Like, is it similar to Reiki oris it something different?

Annie (11:48):
Um no, I wouldn't say it's similar to Reiki.
So yeah, so it's the it'scalled the Disruptor Codes.
Um, I really don't know what togive another.
My teachers, so she startedoff, she was an osteopath first.
Um, and so she very much islike very rooted in yeah, the
body.
Like I had to learn anatomy.
I had this big anatomy bookthat I use um because it's very
much merging.

(12:09):
Yeah, it's really important sothat it merge the physical body
and all of like the way ourorganism like works together,
the different systems with theenergy.
But I think the difference withReiki, the way that I like to
explain it is like with Reiki,people kind of send energy to
you know the place where youhave pain or a blockage or
something, right?
They're sending that Reikienergy.
Whereas the work that I do,it's really more about pulling

(12:31):
things out.
Because the way that I see andhow I've learned, like chronic
pain, for example, is memoriesand emotions and things that
kind of go and they get lodgedin your fascia and they kind of
hang out with like an organ.
And if you ever heard this,like for example, anger hangs
out in the liver, um, griefhangs out in the lungs.
So the way that I work, that'sit, whereas Reiki, we're really

(12:52):
sending energy to into the body,whereas the work that I do is
we're really pulling thesethings out because that's why
they're stuck there and they'recausing you pain.

Lauren (13:01):
This is such great timing because the episode
before this was about likefascia and how your body holds
on to stuff.
So you're kind of like the uhthe deeper, the the energetic
dive into that.

Frank (13:17):
So when you're when you're doing your your healing
modality, you you mentionedyou're using visualizations and
pulling emotions out.
What are the types of likevisual visualizations that
you're you're working through?

Annie (13:30):
Mm-hmm.
So I mean, yeah, it reallydepends on the situation.
Um, I'll give you most recentone.
So we I had a client um acouple weeks ago, and I can't
remember the whole, I can'tremember the whole like
logistics of it, but basicallysome of what we were talking
about had started from being inthe mood.
Oh yeah.
So this client is the youngestchild, and she knows it's like

(13:53):
known in her family that theybasically had her to save their
marriage.
Okay, they like she has like 12years apart from her older
sister, and they basically hadthis baby to like let's save our
marriage.
It's kind of like fallingapart.
So this client has this likeinsane pressure of being like
the savior and the one to likeresponsible, fix everything,
right?
Keep everybody happy.
Makes sense.
So we were like, okay, lookingat, you know, how did these

(14:14):
things happen historically?
But I was like, this actuallystarted in the womb because
that's literally why she wasconceived was to save their
marriage.
So one of the visualizationsthat we did was basically to go
back into the womb when she wasin the womb and release some of
these emotions, theseprojections that were like put
onto her, right?
This whole nine months.
And then basically thevisualization was kind of like

(14:35):
rebirthing, like coming throughthis dark tunnel to the light to
basically be reborn without allof these projections and this
huge responsibility on you.
And I mean, I know it soundsout there, but it's effective.

Lauren (14:46):
No, no, no, no, that makes so much sense.

Frank (14:49):
I mean, what a powerful like closure on a real deep
discomfort that like startedfrom from birth, you know.
Giving yourself an opportunityto like bring yourself into the
world the way that you want topresent is like that's a huge
deal.

Lauren (15:03):
I also wonder, do you know, because because we've been
talking about human design inthe last few episodes, do you
know human design at all?
Because I feel like that thatsounds like a five line now that
I've learned, which is likepeople project onto you and um
kind of hope that you'll betheir like like a savior almost.

(15:27):
So I wonder if that's also inthat person's human design.

Annie (15:32):
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.
I'll have to look up her chart.
She's one of my ongoingclients, so I have her I have
all of her details, but I'm athree-five, so I'm very familiar
with the projection field.
So are you?
Yeah.
So I mean, that was one of thesometimes that's what I like
when I first fell into humandesign, that I actually I used
it again as a map because a lotof my chart is very open.
I only have two centers thatare colored in, so everything

(15:55):
else is open, which again justmakes so much sense why I'm an
empath and this little likesponge of like, who am I?
Um so then I realized I'm like,well, what if our open centers
are places where we're moresusceptible to conditioning for
other people, then again, thatgives me a map to do the healing
work that I do to decondition,right?
So that's what I did, and I wasable to um yeah, just play play
with that and just like.

Frank (16:15):
Wait, that's really cool.

Annie (16:17):
Yeah.

Frank (16:17):
That's a really cool thought.
Which actually brings me to aquestion that I had written down
here.
Yeah.
Is when did you when did youactually start realizing when
did you start realizing yourmediumship and your your psychic
abilities?

Annie (16:32):
Um so yeah, I would say, I mean, it was definitely yeah,
but that like 2018, 2019, soafter my daughter was born,
because I was just in therapyfor so long, and I was realizing
how much yeah, the people werelike influencing me.
And then I think I learnedabout being an empath.
Like someone mentioned it, andI know like read a book, and I

(16:53):
can't remember what it was, butI was like, oh my god, this is
so me.
And so then I was like, okay,so I'm an empath, so this is why
like this all makes sense, youknow.
But then it wasn't until Ifound my spiritual teacher, and
then I was like, Oh, okay, thisis actually like my abilities,
so it all kind of like tiedtogether.
So it's a bit of like abreadcrumb, you know.

Lauren (17:09):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, that makes sense.

Annie (17:11):
But I've been done it kind of all my life, if I think.
Like I've always been thatperson that people are like, I
just feel so much better after Ilike talk to you.
I'm like, yeah, no shit.
I've been taking like yourfreaking your pain this whole
time, you know.
I'm holding space for you, butI'm not only like just giving
you advice, I'm like, let metake all of this.
Like, Jesus.
Right.

Lauren (17:29):
Oh my god, I really feel that so much.

Frank (17:33):
I and I'm sure now, like you have like war stories on
what happens for other peoplewho when they like hold space
for other people and theiremotions, but like don't take
the time to process their ownstuff.

Annie (17:46):
Like, I don't know.

Frank (17:47):
Can you can you speak towards that a little bit?
Because it seems like it wouldbe an important part of your
work.

Annie (17:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, so that's a classic signof that's it, anxiety, like I
was saying before.
People who are very anxious,oftentimes that's it very
psychic, they're very much likeon the pulse of things, picking
up, you know, the unsaidnuances, and then that's it,
holding all of that energy,taking other people's pains,
keeping it in their bodies.
That's like a really big sign.
And even like depressionsometimes can be a big sign.

(18:12):
Like sometimes I have I haveclients who are that they're
aware of it, they feel good, andthen they go home, they visit
their family, and they're like,oh my God, I like I left there
and I feel so depressed, youknow.
And that's another sign thatit's like probably not yours
when it's kind of like suddenand out of nowhere.
Um, and then yeah, it justleads to a lot of like chronic
pain because that's it.
It's your body knows that thesethings are not supposed to be
there.
And then another thing that Isee, a big one with a lot of

(18:36):
healers and when it resonates,is really just holding on to
extra weight, is because it'squite literally we're holding on
to all this extra baggage thatisn't ours.
So it's yeah.

Lauren (18:45):
Yeah.

Frank (18:46):
Yeah, that's what's wrong with it.
That's it.

Annie (18:51):
That's it.
But a really like quick, quick,effective, like easy way.
I assist like all my clients,um, and actually teaching my
kids and like children clientsthat I have is just every night
when you're going to bed to makeit part of your like bedtime
routine to just take a momentand say, like, I'm returning to
sender, like like I'm returningeverything that's not mine, and
just taking that moment to justbe like, I'm returning

(19:12):
everything to sender with loveand consciousness, and like this
just isn't mine.
Um, and that's it.
My clients are like, oh wow,that makes such a difference in
their anxiety and like insomniaand just things like that.
And it's just, I mean, youcould do it multiple times a
day, but at least if you justget in the habits of like when
you're brushing your teeth orwhatever, like just habit stack
it.
If you're someone who's verysensitive to energy and very
much like associate, likerecognizes themselves as an
empath, then yeah, at least oncea day you've got to like just

(19:33):
return everything to sender.

Lauren (19:36):
We do that similar thing where like we call it a car
wash.
If we've been in like a reallychaotic environment, we get in
the car, we go, I releaseanything that does not belong to
me.
And yeah, it like just itclears the space.
Or yeah, or a bedtime sometimeswhere it's like, all right,
there's some extra stuff goingon keeping everybody a little

(19:58):
crazy.
So uh I wanted to ask aboutlike astrology and how this all
plays into like how you helppeople.
And do their do you find thattheir birth charts like, oh
yeah, no wonder you have This,this, and this.

(20:20):
Like you're more prone to thatbecause of that.
We don't know a ton ofastrology, so we're on the very
basics over here.
We know sun, sign, rising, andmoon.
And like for me, that's aboutit.
So I'm just saying that as apreface.

Frank (20:38):
I will, yeah, a full natal chart really, really gets
that blood pressure moving inthe wrong direction.

Lauren (20:44):
I see that where I hear like fifth house or ninth house,
and I'm like, what I am, I'mI'm gone.
I'm not here.
I don't know what anyone'ssaying anymore.

Annie (20:54):
Uh ways, I hear you guys.
Um, so I mean, I think, soyeah, one of the things that I
really like about the fact thatI trained as an energy healer
first.
I think that really just givesme a different perspective.
Because I always, for me, I seecharts as a karmic story.
And it's also, it's thelanguage from your higher self.

(21:16):
That's the way I like toexplain it.
It's like your higher selfincarnated, they had a plan,
right?
They they came to do something.
They knew that you would haveamnesia when you incarnate,
because that's just how Earthworks.
And so they put it into achart, like into the map, right?
So that you're not going inblind.
So that's really how I like toexplain it to people.
And like their chart is yourhigher self's plan for your
lifetime.

(21:36):
And so with that in mind, wecan really just go like so many
directions.
Like the it's it's like it'slike a map for everything.
Um, it's like I think the waythat you basically high
incarnate for this higherpurpose, which is your north
node path, it's like yourdestiny, and the rest of the
planets, the like theplacements, those are basically
like the tools and theexperiences that soul was like,

(21:57):
well, if I if I experience thisor I have this, it's going to
help me on the path.
So that's really the lens thatI that I take.
Um, and I kind of work withpeople in different, different
capacities, I guess you couldsay.
So the first is if that's it,they want to know kind of like
their healing map.
And they're like, oh, I feellike I have a purpose or
whatever.
And then I look at their theirhigher purpose, I'm like, okay,
well, your soul incarnated forthis.

(22:18):
And then we're like, okay,well, what are like, you know,
the blocks or the woundings?
Like, what's the karmic storyhere so that you can clear it
and get on get ahead of itbecause that's what's gonna
help, right?
And then in terms of ancestralastrology and family astrology,
well, that's all patterns, andastrology is very much patterns
and cycles.
And so what I do is when I see,I look at a family chart.

(22:39):
So it's like I look at you guyswith your kids, and then I look
and I see, I'm like, okay,well, we have repeating energy
here.
So for example, in my family,we have a lot of repeating
Capricorn energy.
Um, and so looking at ourkarmic stories, I know that
emotional healing is a big oneon both sides, both me and my
spouse, both have like thisemotional repression in our
families.
And so that's something that wesee often in Capricorn.

(23:02):
It's like the the family justdoesn't have a lot of space for
like emotional expression,right?
And then you'll see a kick, achild will be born, like my
daughter, who is just like somuch water and fire and just
like zero chill, who just likebasically forces you to like
face it and like you got nochoice but to deal with the
emotions because she's freakingexpressive and explosive, you

(23:22):
know.
Um, so yeah, I guess that'skind of my take on on astrology.
It's really just all patterns.
Um, yeah.

Lauren (23:32):
I okay, that yeah.
What do you do you find thatthere's a lot of there are a lot
of repeating signs because wehave Sagittarius, yeah, I'm
Aquarius rising, he's uhCapricorn rising, and our
daughter is a Capricorn sun, ourson is an Aquarius sun.

(23:52):
So we all have like, and thenhe has Aquarius um moon, our
daughter has Aquarius moon,yeah, our son has Aquarius
rising, like it's all there's abunch of repeating.
There's maybe like one randomsign, like the Taurus, but
otherwise, like I mean, just forthe everything is repeating,

(24:14):
and it's so interesting.
Yeah.

Annie (24:16):
Yeah, totally.
So that happens all the time,like in families.
That tells us that basicallythat's it, it's those themes
that repeat are really importantfor your family line.
So I heard like a lot ofAquarius, and then it's like you
all as a family story isprobably breaking out of the
mold, like breaking out of thestatus quo, right?
And like accepting, you know,yourself like as you are, quirky

(24:38):
and all, right?
Um, and so that's like a big, abig story, and that you are all
doing, you know, together.
And then it's it's been theCapricorn, like I was saying,
oftentimes that has to do withlike emotional repression or
just like working so much,putting like work before family,
things like that.
Um, so yeah, so when signsrepeat, it tells us that it's
like a big part of this the itjust kind of depends on where
the placements fall, if it'slike, oh, this is what you're

(25:01):
breaking for your family cycleand you're healing it for your
lineage, and or that's it, it'spart of like what you're meant
to do kind of together.

Lauren (25:09):
Yeah.

Frank (25:12):
And because you mentioned that the the what did you say,
the north node is related tolike your individual destiny.

Lauren (25:19):
Yeah, I was gonna ask about that too.

Frank (25:21):
I don't know shit about that.

Lauren (25:22):
Yeah, how do you find your north node?
That sounds very cool.

Annie (25:25):
That's actually the one that looks like um, it looks
like a little horseshoe.
Um, so yeah, it I mean it'syeah, it's literally a
horseshoe.
So that's the one that lookslike a horseshoe.
And so for me, that's where Ialways always start.
I'm like, okay, this is youryou know, your destiny.
Um, and then the rest of itkind of like fits in.
I mean, I can give you guys abit of my story to like put it
in context.
So I'm an Aquarius North Node.

(25:45):
So my north node, and it's inthe second house.
So my destiny is very muchabout um standing on my own two
feet with our second house, ithas to do with income and money.
So standing on my own two feet,um helping like the collective
evolve and really break out ofthe mold.
So, I mean, I just tell youguys before right, I like I've
moved abroad, um, I've been inthe sheep my whole life.

(26:06):
And really the rest of my chartlike fills in that story just
in so many different ways.
Like I have um a Capricornmoon.
And so for me, I don't reallylike dealing with my emotions.
I was more of the like, put itinto the box for later or never,
actually.
Um and that kind of served mefor when I was the black sheep,
you know, and I like I was I wasbullied a lot and I just like

(26:27):
you know, it that emotionaldetachment like helped me in a
way.
Um, you know, it just kind offits.
And it was also like a storywith like my mom.
My mom was not cold, likenurturing at all.
I'm had lots of like mommywounds, and again, that just
fits that black sheep story,right?
Of like not not fitting in, notfeeling worthy and all of it.
So that was like a big, yeah,it's like it's like the your
chart when you look at it alltogether, it tells like a story.

(26:49):
And like, yes, those werewoundings, but it helped me on
my path because that's it.
If I had quote unquote fit inand felt like I belonged this
whole time, I wouldn't have hadthat same drive to explore
energy healing, right?
To leave my career, to likefind something more.
So it's like, yeah, that's kindof how I how I see it.
It always serves in one way,um, in the bigger karmic story.

Lauren (27:12):
Yeah.

Annie (27:13):
But I'll send you guys on the rabbit hole of your north
note.

Lauren (27:17):
The rabbit hole is about to begin.

Frank (27:19):
I just pulled up Lauren's chart, but I don't know why I
have yours and not mine.

Lauren (27:24):
Oh, you don't have yours?

Frank (27:25):
I I didn't see it in there.
Oh, I'm always I'm alwayschecking in on her.
Making sure you understand myquirks.
So then if you have somethinglike your entire family has a
lot of like like like we haveAquarius strung out through you
nailed it, by the way.
Like we are weirdos, we'redoing weird things, and we're
trying to feel okay about it.

Lauren (27:46):
And all four of us have Aquarius somewhere.
Our son is uh Aquarius' son andAquarius Rising, so he is a
little weirdo.

Frank (27:54):
Yeah.
And then two Capricorns here inthe family, yeah.
Being my my rising and and ourdaughter's uh son, we are the
ones that get the most stressedout and strung out, and uh we'll
do things ad nauseum until weget it right, and we like to
chill sometimes, or we'd like tochill, but we don't.

(28:15):
So when you're looking at likeI'm I'm I'm looking, I'm I guess
I'm doing some a certain amountof pattern recognition right
now, according to what you'resaying.
If we look at all of our northnodes, is there a chance that
there could be some overlap heresince it seems so Yeah, there
could be, there could besometimes.

Annie (28:33):
Um the north like the nodes are like it's like a
generational planet.
So what I mean by that isbecause they move so slowly, and
it's like you have a wholechunk of people that are have
the same north nodes.
So it's like I was born in like1990, so it's like everybody in
that year has like AquariusNorth Node, for example.
So sometimes it will happenthat you have the same north
node if the generations are, youknow, the like if it max

(28:57):
matches up, depending on likehow old you are when you had a
kid and stuff.
But what I often see, which isfascinating, is that we often
have the opposite.
So um you'll have a kid whosays, let's say it's like I'm an
Aquarius North node, whichmeans my south is in Leo, and
then my daughter's she's a LeoNorth node, so she's like the
opposite, um, which is alsovery, very karmic because it's
basically like what I'm workingtowards, she's already mastered

(29:19):
in a past life.
What she's working towards,I've already mastered in a past
life.
So we have a very karmicrelationship of like learning
from each other.
But as I'm sure you canimagine, given that I'm the mom
and she's the daughter, and likethere's just like a lot of
stuff there.
Totally always funny.
I understand that she's ateacher as well, but you know,

(29:40):
that's so funny.

Frank (29:41):
I will I will say out loud right now in public that if
we had a Gemini in the house,which is the opposite of a
Sagittarius, I think I'd lose mymind.

Lauren (29:50):
Uh yeah.

Frank (29:50):
I think I think we're good.

Lauren (29:53):
I think we'd be I think we'd have a hard time.
Both of our dads are Geminis,and yeah, that's good enough.
Wait, so okay.
My north node, I don't youdon't have to do all uh is there
like a one kind of sentencenorth node in cancer that I

(30:15):
could understand?

Annie (30:17):
Yeah, so your north node and cancer, so yeah, this is
where it depends where that thehouse, like you were saying,
like what are the houses?
So side note of like whenyou're looking at a chart, it
looks kind of like a pie.
And every little pie piece, thelines are it looks like little
pies.
So the pies, those are thehouses, and those are the
different areas of your lifewhere this story kind of plays

(30:38):
out.
Um, but yeah, so as um cancernorth node, your soul really
incarnated here for that's it,for family, for um, for
nurturing, you know, yourselfand for others, um really that
ancestral healing, even maybeeven like liberating, you know,
your maternal line.
Um but yeah, cancer is just thesign of yeah, just like

(30:58):
nurturing and family um and homelife, and really like helping
the people around you feel safeand like nurtured and secured
and all of that.

Lauren (31:09):
That's I feel like that tracks.
Yeah, fifth house.
I'm so okay.
This is helping me dip not justa toe, but maybe a foot or two
feet.
I get overwhelmed easily.
I'm sure our listeners haveheard me say a few times, like,

(31:29):
I want to know astrology, but Ijust want to know it.

Frank (31:34):
Oh, yeah.

Lauren (31:35):
Lauren Lauren's got a little not take the time to
actually learn it.

Frank (31:40):
Yeah, I think it's why I've become so good at
distilling information because Ihave exactly one and a half
sentences to get that hugeconcept through before she goes,
that's too much.
Yeah.
And I'm like, it's fine, that'sfine.
But yeah, it's very funny.
So where's my where's myhorseshoe?
I found my chart.

Lauren (31:56):
Let's go to planet.

Frank (31:58):
Where's my horseshoe?
We are basic.

Lauren (32:00):
You're north node in Taurus.
Yeah, North Node in Taurus inthe fifth house.
Mine was in the fifth house,too.

Annie (32:08):
Oh, that's so cool.
I love that.
I love that synchronicitybecause it's in the fifth house.
It's like your fifth house ishouse of like fun and creativity
and children and likeself-expression.
So just love that that's bothlike the focus for you, but just
like in a different way.
You know, that's like a reallynice um that makes sense.
Compliments each other.

Lauren (32:29):
Yeah.
We do creative projects togetherall the time until we met.
We were in a band.

Annie (32:35):
And yeah, that's so cool.
Amazing.
Um a Taurus North Node,typically Taurus North Node
tells us that your soul reallywants to like move away from
that like chaos and createstability for themselves.
Um, really, that that's it,that like that foundation that
is like very, yeah, just likestable and nurturing and

(32:56):
comforting.
And also you incarnate it tojust like experience like the
pleasures and like the joy oflife because Taurus is related
with Venus.
And then it's all about that'sit, enjoying.
So it's like Taurus is reallyabout like when they say like
stop and smell the roses, likethat's really what it came here.
And then with the fifth house,I'm like, yeah, I feel like your
your soul really came here tojust like have fun.
But the like childhoodexperience may have been like

(33:16):
the opposite of that, where it'sjust like, yeah, very chaotic
and just like a lot of likeyeah, just like hardships to
overcome.
So your soul is like movingaway from that to create that
joy and that stability foryourself despite the chaos, you
know.

Frank (33:30):
That's interesting.

Annie (33:31):
Oh, that's so cool.

Frank (33:33):
I don't think my house was that that chaotic, not like
obviously in any obvious way,but yeah, that is your brain was
chaotic and remains to thisday.

Lauren (33:43):
Here, but uh it it is interesting, like you uh we've
been we've established, I think,that you create the like
foundation, the kind offoundational stability, like
emotionally too.
And then I'm kind of the likenurturer, let's see how we uh
include everybody and make thisall work or whatever.

Frank (34:06):
I will also say that like when I interact with people, if
we I don't have a lot oftolerance for shallow
conversations, but like I alwayswant to get to the heart of
what are you about, what do youwant, that kind of thing.
Like that's kind of my MO of oflike you know, talking to
someone from like a soul leveland not talking about it's
probably why I don't like sportsthat much.

(34:26):
I wanna I wanna like sports,but I wanna I want to know what
everyone's into.
You know what I mean?
I like sports.
I'm like, that's so cool, Ican't talk to you about it, but
like, you know, I can'tinterview that guy.

Lauren (34:40):
I want to hear more about his hopes and dreams.
And also, what does he thinkabout space?

Annie (34:48):
I love it.

Lauren (34:49):
That is fun.

Annie (34:50):
I mean, that's also very Aquarius.
Like, Aquarius doesn't reallylike we don't do superficial,
like it's just like meh.

Frank (34:57):
Oh, really?
Is that a thing?

Annie (34:59):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Lauren (35:02):
Okay, that's very funny.

Frank (35:05):
So, like, I it's gotta be so we we've talked, I mean you
you mentioned it too, but we asof now, in this current uh time
in our lives, our f familydynamic is somewhat
complementary.
We have tough nights, it'sfine, we got young kids, but
like there's a lot ofintermingling of um science and
and what have you.

(35:25):
And but I'm sure you run intoall the time family dynamics
that aren't so complimentary andlike and our is the assumption
that those challenges are put infront of them so that they have
something to go grow past andlike learn the lesson.

Annie (35:40):
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
That's exactly it.
You nailed it, especiallyoftentimes as I'll see it with
you know children.
It's like most people have it'slike you have that one karmic
child, that that's it.
They're like, oh man, you knowwhen people say, like, oh my
like my first is so easy, andthen my second, they're like, Oh
my god, like yeah, that one'syour karmic child, you know.
It's like that's exactly it.
It's like you nailed it.

(36:00):
It's like you make soulagreements.
So my belief system, and it'show you know I learned it
through this energy healing andeverything, is that we agree to
a bunch of different soulcontracts and challenges and
growth, and we make theseagreements with people before we
incarnate.
And it's like, I'm agreeing tobe your mom, or I'll be your
villain in your story, like allof that.
And so that's like whathappens, it's really not like

(36:23):
that the person is deliberatelylike wanting to hurt you, but
it's like that's the soulcontract, and that's how it has
to play out.
So oftentimes I'd say, I'll seethat when, like you were
saying, when they someone hasthe exact opposite signs, um,
associated with like their moon,for example, because their moon
is their emotional world.
And so they'll be likecompletely different and like
completely opposites, you know.
And when you don't have thatastrology knowledge or even just

(36:46):
that awareness, it's verychallenging because you're not
realizing that you just don'tsee things or process things the
same way, you know.
Um, so yeah, so it's verycommon to have that.
Sometimes people will have pastlife things as well.
Um, so I can also see that incharts.
That's where we would havesouth node.
Um, so the other shoes, so theI told you guys the horseshoe is
the north, the upside down oneis the south node.
That one talks about your pastlife.

(37:07):
And so that gives us so manyinsights as well.
But sometimes, especially withsiblings, sibling dynamics, I
see this oftentimes.
They're like, my kids arealways at each other's throats,
and which like I have two there.
It's it's also an age thing.
But sometimes, you know,sometimes I'm like, oh, they
actually have past lives.
And it's like they were likepast life, like enemies, for
example.
It was like Mars in the SouthNode, you know.

(37:27):
So sometimes these things willtrickle over from those lives.
But yeah, it's really thosekarmic scenarios, either they're
meant to help us grow orthey're just lingering from a
past life, and we gotta likeclean that up.

Lauren (37:40):
Yeah.
Okay.
So we could look at like ourMaya and Frank's South Nodes and
see how they either clash orcome together.
And then we could also do thatwith our kids and see like were
they complementary.

Annie (37:58):
Yeah, exactly.
So yeah, so that's actuallywhat that's what I do in my
signature family readings.
I read everybody together, butthat's it.
It's called a sinistry chart,and they put them together.
So that's it.
When you put them together, youcould see like, oh, okay, your
South Node and your Mars arestuck together.
They're both in whatever'sfine.
So that tells us that you have,you know, a past life together,
or that's it, like with yourother child.

(38:19):
Oh, okay.
Well, you've got, you know, thethe South Node with like
Mercury or whatever.
And I'm like, oh, that probablytells me that you're a past
life siblings.
So yeah, when the planets aremaking aspects together, when we
put the charts together to theSouth Node, that tells us about
past life connections.
Not all of them, because wehave like we uh most of us have
a lot, a lot of past lives, uh,but just I think the ones that
are probably relevant to thisincarnation, especially with our

(38:41):
children and our spouses,right?

Lauren (38:43):
Yeah.

Frank (38:44):
That's really cool.

Annie (38:46):
Yeah.

Frank (38:47):
And by the way, not all of us have a bunch of past lives
because I've only had like two,because I and I'm just some
spiritual dope.
It's true.
It's true.
Yeah, every if you said that,you'd be right.

Lauren (38:59):
He was told that he's kind of he's kind of newer and
that he's uh just a handful ofpast lives.
But cool.
I don't know.
Yeah, that's totally we alsowere told that we were married
several times in past lives.

Frank (39:12):
So right.

Lauren (39:14):
Yeah.

Frank (39:14):
Yeah, maybe maybe the person that said it to me missed
a few.

Lauren (39:17):
One, two, skip a few, Frank and Lauren.

Frank (39:19):
Go for it.

Lauren (39:23):
I don't think they said three lives.

Annie (39:26):
But I mean, I feel like I feel like you guys all
appreciate this story, like ofjust how past lives connections
are just mind-blowing.
So my daughter and I have acouple past lives together.
And when she was born, aftershe was born, I just had so much
anxiety all of a sudden abouthouse fires.
Like I've never experienced ahouse fire or anything in this
lifetime, but it was incrediblepain, like so scary, so

(39:47):
stressful.
I would wake up in the middleof the night, I would leave my
house, I'd have to drive backhome.
Like, did I unplug the hairstraightener?
Like it was reallydebilitating.
And then when I was doing pastlife work, yeah, like it was
causing me a lot of anxiety,like out of nowhere.
And all of a sudden I wasterrified of house fires.
And so then I was doing pastlife work and I found that's at
this record of a past life withmy daughter, where we were in a

(40:08):
house fire and I had actuallydied trying to save her.
So when she was born,basically, like our souls coming
back together in thisincarnation, it brought up all
these memories for me, eventhough that's it I had never.
In this life, experienced thehouse fire or anything, but it's
really debilitating.
Like, I'm serious.
I was losing sleep, anxious,like I was saying, like, gotta
go back home, gotta checkthings.
Like it was bad.
Um, and that's it.
It was just this past liferesonance, but her soul coming

(40:31):
back to me, being reborn,brought up all those fears,
obviously.
Wild, eh?

Frank (40:35):
I'm telling you guys, and my whole crown is like so
interesting.

Lauren (40:41):
That is wild.

Frank (40:42):
Wait, how do you like how do you uh how do you account
for that?
Like uh what do you what do youso would I would if I were you,
I'd end up living in a tent,you know?
I'm like, that's take care ofthat.
That's that trauma solved.

Lauren (40:55):
Right?
She does energy healing drink.

Annie (40:59):
Exactly.
So that's it.
So I had to basically go backto those memories, pull out all
of the emotions because they'restill in my body.
So I went back to thosememories, pull out all of those
emotions, and then basicallyclose and burn down those
records so that my brainwouldn't see it as like
historical evidence.
Because that's how I explain itto my clients.
It's like, you want to think ofyour brain and you know, your

(41:21):
ego, and just like all of thatsubconscious stuff, it's just
meant to like protect you.
And it basically your braincreates a catalog of, and so
what happens is like when youhave a really marking moment,
whether it's like traumatic orjust very like yeah, marking,
your brain kind of creates thiscatalog.
And so it's like, okay, whenthis happens, this is how I
react and whatever.
So then that's what happens.

(41:41):
That's what when people talkabout our mindset and our
subconscious and all, it'sreally just you have a certain
situation in front of you thatcould be similar.
Your brain is just on autopalette, going through your
catalog.
Oh, this one sounds verysimilar or it's close.
Therefore, we operate likethis.
And that's where all that's it,that subconscious programming
comes from.
But this catalog in your brain,it starts from all these past

(42:02):
lives as well.
So that's the work that Ireally do with energy healing,
is just deleting some of theseentries in this catalog that
just like don't serve youbecause it just didn't really go
that way, or like it's justkind of gotten distorted along
the way.
And it's just like, no, I don'tneed to be operating from that
that catalog entry anymore.

Frank (42:18):
Do you ever worry about deleting something that you
didn't you shouldn't have?
Can you control Z that one?

Annie (42:24):
Right.
I'm I'm I don't know.
I don't know that you canreally delete anything that like
you shouldn't have.
No, I'm not sure.

Frank (42:32):
It's a locked file.
They don't have read and theyonly have read and write
permission.
That's an encrypted memory.
Okay.

Annie (42:40):
Yeah.
Well, it's funny that you saythat.
That does happen sometimes withclients when it's like, yeah,
they don't want to look at adeep trauma.
Like that's literally like, Iknow that one's password
protected.
And I'm like, okay, well, comeback to that one, you know.

Lauren (42:52):
Whoa.

Annie (42:54):
Yeah, yeah.
100%.
That's it.
Sometimes people they'vesuppressed it, they don't even
realize, or they just don't wantto go there.
You know, it's like one of myclients, she sent me her
husband.
I worked with him um over likefour sessions as this specific
like program to like liberatehis family line.
And I so I was meeting with himfor like four months and every

(43:15):
regularly, and it was at thevery final fourth session.
He had this huge trauma comeup, this finally, this like
childhood memory he had nevertold his wife, none of it, la.
And I was like, oh my goodness,like, yeah, it took you like
four months to get there, butthere's some people in their own
time, you know.
Yeah, he had very happy realfar.

Lauren (43:32):
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.

Frank (43:34):
Annie, what are you doing to protect yourself?
Like in during these like bigconversations, these big moments
that people are having.

Annie (43:41):
Yeah.
Well, so I just really have tokind of like check my energy
like after.
So it's like after I dosessions, I just have to that's
it, make sure like I didn't keepanything, like return
everything to sender, like wewere saying.
I always will like disconnectfrom people's energy.
Um, and uh yeah, I mean,honestly, I think that's where
my Capricorn moon kind of helps.
Like I really can stay cool,calm, and collected.

(44:04):
Like I don't want people thatto have these really traumatic
moments and they're crying, andI'm like, it's cool, like I got
you.
I feel grounded.
I'm not like, oh my God, that'sall horrible.
It's just like my Capricornmoon really does serve me in
that way.
Um, yeah, it's really just Imean, and I don't do more than
like two sessions every daybecause then I also I was gonna
say, do you ever like say, oh,well, I'm done for the day after
that one?

Frank (44:23):
Yeah, we're good.

Annie (44:24):
Yeah, no, when I first started, it was like I couldn't
do more than like one session.
And if I had more than two in aweek, then I would be like, I'm
exhausted, I'm cranky, like I'mnot having it.
Um, but over time it's justlike gotten better, but now
still I still do max two a day,and I only see clients three
days a week.
Like I'm not I'm not doing thislike nine to five, back to
back, four days a week.

(44:45):
Like, no, no.

Lauren (44:46):
Right.

Frank (44:47):
Yeah, that's a really important note, I feel like it
does, it can take a toll, evenif you're doing everything
right.
It's still a lot, it's a lot tohave people process with even
just using you as a tool.

Lauren (45:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cause that's like deep work.
There's some Reikipractitioners where they're, you
know, just kind of scanningscanning or sending energy the
whole time.

Frank (45:11):
But like maybe I should be that kind of Reiki
practitioner.
No, shh, shh, it works betterwhen you don't talk.

Lauren (45:18):
Yeah.
I don't want any of this shit.
But yeah, like the deeper workof like we gotta extract this
and delete this, and like let'slook at your chart.
Like that's that's big deal.
I don't think anyone's saidthat like your chart was created

(45:45):
by your higher self.
I think that's such aninteresting that's so
interesting to me to to thinkabout.
Like that's like a map for you.

Frank (45:55):
It's a star map.

Lauren (45:56):
Yeah.

Frank (45:57):
It's a star map that leads right to Luke Skywalker.
I watch a lot of Star Wars.

Lauren (46:03):
Don't mind him.

Frank (46:04):
Please, please ignore that.

Lauren (46:08):
We we talk all the time on the the podcast about how you
choose your your path.
You choose like what you needto learn.
And for some reason it didn'treally occur to me that like you
would also choose yourastrological chart and like your

(46:28):
human design, like all thethings.
How do those kind of interlock?
Yeah.

Annie (46:35):
Yeah, totally.

Lauren (46:37):
Well, you you've shown me something today.

Annie (46:46):
Like if everything's already predetermined in
astrology, then like where doeslike free will come in, you
know?
And I think that you absolutelystill have free will.
Um, that's where we can seewhere things like we were
talking about with you know,retrogrades, like Mercury
retrograde or eclipse season,and when those moments are
really charged and just like, ohmy God, my whole life blew up.
Well, that's probably like youfree willed yourself a little

(47:07):
too far off the path, you know?
And so like soul kind of has tolike programs these
checkpoints.
That's what I call eclipses.
Eclipses and retrogrades,they're kind of like
checkpoints.
So yeah, you have free will.
But I always say to people,it's like your soul had a plan
and like this is thedestination.
Your free will is are you gonnatake path A, which is like in
alignment and everything's gonnago smoothly because you're
following your intuition,everything?

(47:28):
Are you gonna like take path Band you're just gonna be like,
no, F all this, and you're gonnalike, you know, like muscle
your way through it.
Are you gonna take path C?
You're gonna do a lot ofdetours, go around and around
and loop, you know, you're justyou're always going in the same
direction, but that's it.
The free will is like how easyit's gonna be to get there.
And so that's why I laugh whenpeople are like, Well, I don't
really believe in astrology.
I'm like, you cannot believe inastrology.

(47:48):
I'm like, but the astrology isstill gonna astrology, whether
you believe in it or not.
So you have the map, you know?

Lauren (47:56):
Yeah.
Any any of the the skeptics, Ialways come to my brother, who's
always like, astrology isridiculous.

Frank (48:06):
Yeah, well, hold on.
I don't think he has and I I'vebeen meaning to talk to him
about this.
Josh, if you're listening, Iwanted to I wanted to say, like,
you know, because he has done,since we've been doing the the
podcast and stuff, he's come along way in in his his own
personal belief systems.
They've they've gotten quitemore expansive than they used to
be.

Lauren (48:24):
Yeah.

Frank (48:25):
But I still think he thinks astrology is that thing
you open up the newspaper onSundays and look at.

Lauren (48:29):
I think so.

Frank (48:30):
Like you read the sentence.
I'm like, no, man, it's morethan that.

Lauren (48:33):
But he also thinks like he just considers like your son
sign, but he also thinks, oh,it's it's it's absurd to think
that if you were supposed to beborn the day before or like six
hours before, and you weren'tthat like your chart's gonna be
totally different.

(48:54):
He like just doesn't, or yourpersonality is totally
different.

Frank (48:57):
It's a spectrum.

Lauren (48:58):
Yeah.

Frank (48:59):
Anyway.

Lauren (49:00):
Yeah.

Annie (49:01):
And I mean the horoscope astrology it's it's literally
like the most, it's like themost like diluted pop astrology
because when you look at actualpredictive astrology and what's
happening in your life rightnow, it's not even based on the
sun sign.
So that drives me nuts when Isee like, yeah, just like pop
astrologers and TikTok andstuff.
And they're like, horoscopesfor all the Aries sun.

(49:21):
And I'm like, no, it hasnothing to do with anything.
It's actually based on yourrising sign.
So give you a tip.
If ever you guys are readinghoroscopes that are like
general, you actually want to bereading them for your rising
sign, not your sun sign.

Frank (49:33):
Oh that little.
Yeah, I'm sure the sun signstill holds some influence,
right?

Annie (49:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's your sun, it's like it'syour, it's basically like your
it's like your highestexpression kind of view, you
know, and like your aura andwhat comes naturally to you,
like your strengths, it's allthat, you know.
But sometimes people, that'sit, depending on their life
stories, sometimes people haveto kind of like grow into their
sun signs, again, with just thewhole rest of the chart and the

(49:59):
karmic story.
Um, and that's it, that kind ofcontributes to they're like,
Well, I'm not, I'm not aScorpio, anyways, and they just
don't feel that way, but it'slike they're moving towards it,
you know, or maybe they have sixplanets all together and
something else.
Like there's just so manynuances.
But I personally think that thewhole like watered down
horoscope in the newspaper, likeI think that was like a like a
I think that was done on purposeto really just like disempower

(50:22):
the masses from how psychoologycan really be, you know?

Frank (50:26):
Yeah.

Annie (50:27):
Oh my gosh.

Lauren (50:28):
I've never heard to look up your rising sign as your
yeah, but also like I've noticedthat since we've been talking,
you have only referenced yourrising and your moon.

Frank (50:40):
So, like, does that wow someone someone here is taking
notes?

Lauren (50:46):
I am paying attention.
She's on top of you.

Frank (50:49):
You basically just got a liar lie detector test on you
with with Lauren Pan.

Lauren (50:53):
No, what she's uh saying right now is tracking.

Frank (50:56):
Yeah.

Lauren (50:57):
Um and do you find that you like live into your own
rising sign more than your son?

Annie (51:07):
I do, yeah.
So it's that's actually beeninteresting.
Um, I was actually reading likean old blog post that I had
written.
I was like, I should publishthis one again.
So I feel like different airtimes of your life can kind of
like emphasize different partsof your chart.
So I'm an Aries son, to giveyou context.
Um, and so I'm an Aries son,and I think as a child I was
very much Aries son, I was justlike like loud, I was like very

(51:29):
passionate, she had like a lotof like, you know, charisma and
that like leadership and all.
Um, but then I was reallyseverely bullied in high school
and I was like, no, no, I needto like bring my light like way
the F down.
Um so I was like, you know, soI like dim that.
So me coming back to my likeAries-ness has been a lot of
healing and like deconditioning.
So I do tend to run mostly likemy my Sagittarius rising, I

(51:52):
feel a lot more like my risingsign than I do my Aries sun.
But that's because of that'sit, that that trauma that I had.
So it really just like, yeah,it just I think it depends in
different times of of yourlives.
You know, you can kind of likelean into one of the archetypes
more than the other.
But that's always the same whenpeople tell me, like, oh, like
I really don't feel like my sunsign at all, or like my kid is
not so and so.
And I'm like, there's probablysomewhere there, but sometimes

(52:14):
there's an explanation to thestory of just like okay, you
have your sun sign is oneplacement and you have a lot of
you know the other play planets,but sometimes it is trauma,
sometimes it is somewhere alongthe way that you learned, hey,
that's actually not safe to belike that, so I'm gonna dim that
down.
Yeah.

Lauren (52:31):
Okay, that makes a lot of sense because sometimes I
like see, you know, how likepeople make TikToks about like
they're very stereotypical, likethis is what a Sagittarius
would do if X, Y, and Z.
And I'm like, well, that's notI don't am I missing something?
Like, I have the likeadventurous, like, you know, I

(52:53):
don't know, head in the cloudskind of thing.
But then there's also the thingabout like Sagittarius just say
whatever they blurt things outand say whatever they're
thinking, even if it hurtssomeone's feelings.
I'm like, nah, I think maybeit's a trauma response that I've
just like quieted certain partsof me.

Annie (53:13):
Possibly, yeah.
And it's also possible maybeyour Mercury is actually not in
Sagittarius.
Um, so sometimes that's it, itjust depends.
Like when you're born,sometimes people will have their
Mercury in the same sign astheir sun sign, and sometimes
it's not.
So then if it's not, thenthat's it.
That Mercury is ourcommunication and how we express
ourselves.
So that would also explain it.

Lauren (53:31):
Oh, okay.
Okay.
And then sometimes my thatsmile, then sometimes when Frank
and I are like on uh in ourlike flow and being creative and
talking about big ideas, wehave to both, we just started
realizing this.
We have to tell my Virgo moonto shut the fuck up because I

(53:56):
start getting into like, well,how's that gonna work?
Because wait a second, and Iget into like the details and
the like micro problems.

Frank (54:05):
I literally don't even I don't address Lauren in that
moment.
I say, Virgo, Virgo, can yousit down?
It's not your turn yet.

Lauren (54:15):
We're still dreaming here.
We need to.
Yeah, and I go like, okay,okay, right, right, right.
I don't need to, I don't needto get into like the details on
the what ifs.
Um, but yeah, that I that'sjust a recent realization that
like oh, that must be why I dothat.
And that part of me is great inwhen it's necessary, but when

(54:37):
it's not, let me fly.

Frank (54:40):
Yeah, that's that's about the extent of like how we
understand things so far.
Yeah, same thing.
Like I'm dreaming we'redreaming, I have big ideas.
I tell Virgo sit down, and I II keep Sagittariusing.
Yeah.
And then when it's time toactually do something, put you
know, the pedal to the metal, Icrack my knuckles, I go, it's
time to be Capricorn.
And we hit it.

Lauren (54:58):
I love it.

Annie (54:59):
Yeah, I love that.
So good.
I mean, that's such like agreat realization to have, you
know, about understanding, let'ssay, like someone else, instead
of like, you know, making you awrongness and being like, God
Lauren, you want to shin on allof our ideas by just being like,
okay, that's a miracle move.
Well, give her space in aminute, you know, because that's
the thing people don't realize.

Frank (55:19):
I gotta I gotta come clean.
I gotta come clean.
That's how it started.

Lauren (55:22):
It started with me saying, shut up years ago when
we would be like, yeah, in in umin what what's it called?
Like we'd be like a creativestate.
Yeah, like in brainstorming.
Really using my brain for thatone.
We'd be brainstorming, and likesuddenly uh something would

(55:44):
like put me into like detailmode, and Frank would be like,
What is happening?
Why is it what where's yourlike dream big thing?
Where'd it go?
So now we've learned we'vewe've learned how to work with
and stop certain things that arelike that's that's that's
annoying right now.

(56:04):
I love that.
This is all it's also helpfulto like understand not only your
partner but your kids and likerecognize why they do certain
things.
Oh, it's so helpful.
Yeah.

Frank (56:19):
Can I ask you a weird one?

Lauren (56:21):
Yeah.

Frank (56:22):
This is one of those too bigs.
This is a too big of aquestion, but I'm gonna ask it
anyway.

Lauren (56:27):
That's always right, it's always towards the end of a
of a conversation.
Frank goes, so what is space?

Frank (56:35):
No, we're we're on something like that right now.
Okay, we are winding down, butbut I'm ramping up.
I'm doing the wrong thing.
So so you spend a lot of timelooking at the chart, and the
chart, you know, itself is builtin a cyclical fashion, right?

(56:57):
And we have in a way wherethere are opposites, you know,
and under the assumption alsothat we as uh reincarnated souls
are taking our turns with withdifferent personalities or
aspects or whatever the mapmight dictate.
I think my question is notformulated, but something along

(57:18):
the lines of when i ick.
When we we are in in culture,we are looking at when we see
something as being the opposite,we almost see the the other,
the opposite as being immoral.
And there's something to thestructure here that says that
they're I I don't know wheremorality comes into this kind of
thing.
You know, I if I see someone,you know, f like politics, for

(57:41):
example, you see the other sideand you go, oh, like they're a
bunch of they're A, crazy, Bimmoral, and the other side
saying the same exact thing.
I guess what is trueimmorality?
That's a that is a messed upquestion to ask a human.

Annie (57:56):
I mean, I feel like I have a bit of an answer for you.
I'm like, that all comes fromconditioning.
Like that literally just comesfrom the stories that you told
as a kid of like what's rightand what's wrong, and you know,
the that's it, like how yourfamily reacted when you did
something right or wrong and allof that.
Like to me, morality iscompletely like a human

(58:18):
construct, and I think it reallycomes from the our conditioning
and like our family and thatwhat you're what we're exposed
to.

Frank (58:25):
So you're saying everything should be a
conversation?

Annie (58:27):
That's great.

Frank (58:28):
You mean have conversations, not wars?
All right, fine, fine, fine,Annie.

Annie (58:35):
Consider the other person's point of view, I know.
Yeah, such a three-five.

Lauren (58:41):
Such a three-five.
I see you, Annie.
All I do to my own detriment sooften.

Annie (58:51):
Oh my god, I know.
Tell me about it.

Lauren (58:54):
Oh my god.

Annie (58:55):
And then that's what I find like sometimes I stay with
my Sagittarius.
I'm like, I love beingoptimistic, but sometimes it's
like to my detriment because Ican really like I can find the
silver linings in like anysituation.
Sometimes I'll like stay therea little too long because I'm
silver lining so hard.
Yeah.

Lauren (59:12):
Yeah.
Oh my God, I feel you.
Yeah.
I call myself dangerouslyoptimistic.

Frank (59:19):
Dangerously optimistic.

Lauren (59:20):
Because that I usually refer to that when I'm like, oh,
I should have left the house 15minutes ago.
It'll be fine.
Or like, I don't know, I didn'trenew my my passport yet.
And I have three, I don't know,something like that, where I'm
really pushing it.
And yeah, I'm dangerouslyoptimistic.

(59:42):
And the trial and error thing,though, is usually, you know,
sometimes it hit it it uhpinches us, pinches us in the
butt.
What is the word?

Frank (59:54):
I believe it's kick.
Does trial and error have acrush on us?
It keeps pinching me in thebutt.
I'm gonna call human resources.

Lauren (01:00:05):
Oh no, I was thinking of nips.
Nips me in the butt.
No, no, that's not righteither.
That would be wrong.
Nips it nip it in the bud.
Oh my god, all of myexpressions are off.
I'm sorry that you've had towitness this entire thing.

Frank (01:00:20):
So for you, a lot of this started with your you you said
it was your Saturn return.
Um and then the events thathappened to you after that you
said resulted in something of adark night of the soul.
Um I guess I and this has comeup in the last couple of
episodes as well.
I'm wondering, like, does itrequire does does our evolution

(01:00:41):
require a dark night of thesoul?
I know you we we could say wewe signed up for all this stuff,
but is it just like is a hardis a hard night?
Is a dark night of the soul auh the result of us straying too
far.

Annie (01:00:58):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I mean I think so.
It's especially when I look atit from like the Saturn return
perspective, which like a lot ofpeople like Saturn return gets
a bad rep.
But I actually had a clientrecently who was like, My Saturn
return was great.
And I was like, oh, tell meabout that.
And basically she was alreadydoing, she's like had already
kind of like deconditioned andsaid like eff it to what she
should have done.
So she was already on thatpath.

(01:01:18):
So for her, it wasn't so towermoment, like everything is like
not good, right?
Because she already wasn'tfollowing what she should have
been doing according to herparents and according to
society.
So I think it kind of depends.
Like some people maybe have adifferent karmic story where
that's it, they've alreadymanaged to like go of all their
conditioning and their ancestralimprints and they follow their

(01:01:39):
own hearts.
But a big majority of peopleare just living for that's it,
the shoulds and what you knowthey that's it, what they feel
like they should be doing, whattheir parents said and all that.
And that's when, yeah, you dokind of need a big cataclysmic
event to really like wake you upfrom it, you know, because if
not, you're just you're justgoing along with emotions,
right?
You're doing that and fivething, and it's like it's fine.

(01:02:01):
And if you don't have that deepdark night cataclysmic moment,
there isn't really a motivationto change, right?
Like it's because that's what'shard.
And that's what I see with myclients all the time, especially
with their spouses, because Isee so many women will go
through their first likespiritual awakening and their
big dark night of soul, and thenthey wake up to like the
corruption of the world andeverything, but then their
spouse hasn't had that.
And that's when it's reallyhard because their spouse hasn't

(01:02:24):
had that, like, I'm down on thefloor, come to Jesus moment, I
want to change it all.
Like their spouse is goingthrough it by force, you know,
and they haven't had that.
This is just saying that'shappened with me and my spouse.
For him, it happened, I wouldsay almost four years later.
So those like four years werekind of like rough there in the
middle because it was just like,oh my God, Annie, like, you
know, it's just kind of feltlike I was like, it was like me

(01:02:46):
who was like bringing up a lotof just like this is corrupted
and this and this has to change,and this has to change, right?
Because he didn't have thatsame, like, yeah, angst with him
and that pain to want tochange, you know.
So I think if people don't havethose dark nights of the souls
and those awakening, um, thereisn't really that motivation to
change anything.
And it's hard to go, like youguys know it's hard to go
against the status quo.

(01:03:06):
Like it's hard for me to eatclean and will not feed my kids
toxins when everything at thestore is freaking toxic or it
costs five times more.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like, no one does that becauselike I'm just gonna like go
against the grain today, andthat's gonna be a lot of fun.
Like, no, you know what I mean?
Like we you need that pain todrive you to go against the
grain like that.

Frank (01:03:24):
So yeah, yeah, but but then you had one, and I've never
heard this, and I'm so glad youbrought it up.
You did have a client who waslike, Oh, mine, you know, we're
out here, we're out here beingBatman and brooding, like uh
every everything is Gotham hasto be different.
And and she's out there havingfive seconds of summer.
And it could but because shealready did some of that shadow

(01:03:46):
work.

Lauren (01:03:47):
Exactly.
Yeah, I mean that's yeah.

Frank (01:03:49):
So so do it now, or it's gonna, or it's gonna pinch you
in the butt.

Lauren (01:03:53):
It's going to pinch you in the butt.

Annie (01:03:56):
Oh, I never said, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I think the nextgeneration will have it very
different, you know.
Like, I'm sure, of course, mykids, you know, I'm like, I'm
gonna mess them up in certainway, they'll have some healing
to do, but just like not havingto deconnect, like we talk about
intuition and like my kids knowthat they're very psychic, like
all these things, like they'renot gonna have to like come back
to it, you know.
So, like, yeah, I can onlyimagine what their Saturn

(01:04:18):
returns are going to be like.
Like, I'm already telling mykids I'm like, you want to go to
you wanna go to college?
Cool.
You don't want to go tocollege, cool, you know.
Like, but for us, like me andmy spouse, we're of the
generation like, you must go tocollege, right?
So it's like for my spouse,that was a big thing because he
didn't, he flunked out of it,right?
So that's a whole big worththing, yada yah.
But it's like my kids won'thave any of that because I'm
telling them, you want to go,cool.
You don't want to go, cool, youknow.

(01:04:39):
So yeah, I think it'll bereally interesting to see
different generations who haveto do less of that
deconditioning shadow work.

Frank (01:04:47):
Yeah.

Lauren (01:04:47):
Less of breaking the we're all doing the cycle
breaking.
Trying to.
Yeah, trying to.

Frank (01:04:54):
It's so hard because you don't know, like, I mean, unless
you have a star map like youdo, you don't have like the
knowledge of where they'recoming from.
So like your your attemptedcycle breaking might be cycle
reaffirming to them.
A little bit of help is verynice.
For example, Lauren, Lauren'sgiving me a side eye.

Lauren (01:05:13):
Oh no, I'm just I'm listening to you.
Because also we but I feel likewe've been doing a lot of we,
as parents, have been doingcycle breaking.
Like, oh, I'm not gonna do itthis way, I'm gonna do it this
way.

Frank (01:05:24):
Yeah, but then you wonder if like we're if we're saying
our kids, hey, follow yourdreams and hopes, and you wanna
you don't want to do thatanymore, that's great.
You don't have to do thatanymore, you know?
And I I wonder if like ourdaughter is the type of person
that like craves uh disciplineso much that now she goes and
joins like the closest war shecan because she wants that that
arm army discipline, you knowwhat I mean?

(01:05:45):
Like it's so it's so hard toknow.

Annie (01:05:48):
Yeah, but you're onto something because before I
noticed my kids' astrologies,uh, give you an example.
So, like I said, my mom was notnurturing at all.
My childhood was like, you cry,you go in your room, like there
was no space for emotions atall.
So me thinking, okay, I'm gonnabreak this cycle, and I didn't
have this emotional support.
I want to talk to my kids abouttheir feelings, like, how are
you feeling?
I'm here for you, I'm holdingspace for you.

(01:06:09):
Do you need a hug?
Because I never had that.
But my kids are both Ariesmoons.
Um, so they don't need that.
They need to discharge first.
They need to go into somepillows and throw some shit
around, then they'll talk abouttheir feelings.
So that like, but you you'relike, you nailed it, Frank, that
I was like, oh, here I amthinking, I'm bringing the
cycle.
I'm giving them what I didn'thave, but that's actually not
what they need at all.
And they're like, Mom, I don'twant to talk about my feelings.
I want to break shit.

(01:06:30):
And I'm like, okay.
Then we go throw your pillowsand go like then we could talk
about your feelings, you know?
So yeah, and it's like it cankind of backfire.
So that's why I love astrology,and that's why I'm like, you
know, it's really important topeople.
I'm like, we gotta read ourchildren's maps because you can,
especially when we're parentingfrom I didn't have this,
therefore I'm gonna do it thisway to compensate for what I

(01:06:50):
didn't have.
Like this happens, so manypeople do this, you know.
I'm like, I know you guys knowwhat I'm talking about, and
that's where it gets yeah,totally.
So yeah, no, no, that was uhyou're you're on it, Frank.

Lauren (01:07:02):
I mean, we do keep looking at like this is how
they, you know, the these aretheir moons.
We got a Virgo moon and anAquarius moon, and here's how
they like need to be addressedor whatever.

Frank (01:07:14):
We gotta learn houses.

Lauren (01:07:16):
We gotta get into that.

Frank (01:07:17):
We gotta do houses.

Lauren (01:07:19):
Well, okay.
Annie, w for the simpletonslike me and Frank, who are I'm
scared to put both of my feetin.
Uh what should I look at nextbesides what I told you I know?

Frank (01:07:37):
Or do you have like a recommendation for an app, aside
from, of course, your services?

Lauren (01:07:42):
Yeah.

Annie (01:07:43):
Yeah.
Um, so I mean, I think forkids, the next place I would
always go is like understandingtheir Venus, because that tells
you just about kind of liketheir love language and just
like what they how they feellike really loved and nurtured,
you know.
Again, same thing.
We have a mismatch.
Like my kids are um one ofthem, both of them are gift

(01:08:03):
giving is like their main likelove language.
Um, and so you know, here I amspending all this quality time
together and be like, I'm gonnatake you out, and they're like,
okay, this is nice, great, butit doesn't really like fill
their cup, and then I just feelmore resentful.
I'm like, I just gotta buy yousomething, I just gotta give you
a gift, and then you're like,you're feeling so seen, you
know?
Um so I would send you on downthe path of yeah, Venus, even
for each other, like just it'sso insightful because like

(01:08:25):
oftentimes, again, we we want togive love and affection how we
think or how we're programmed todo it, but that might not be
how they receive it, right?
So then I would say Venus isreally insightful.
And then then this book that Ireally love is called You Were
Born for This from ChaniNicholas.
It's just like just the waythat she like breaks it all
down, it definitely like makesit click, and it's like a bit of

(01:08:45):
like a workbook that you workthrough like your own placements
at the at the same time.
So yeah, I would say those areand then of course I'm like,
yeah, I'm like, I have anastrology course, and it always
tells people like it reallyhelps to understand it through
the lens of your family.
That's what clients tell me allthe time, like, oh, it finally
clicked with your course becauseI'm helping you see your own
family members and your kidsthrough it.
And so you have real lifeexamples, like it just clicks,

(01:09:08):
you know, because finally you'relike, okay, this Mercury is not
so abstract because I see,yeah, my kid is really literal.
Like that's another one.
I speak in a lot of metaphors.
My son has a Capricorn Mercury,he is very like literal.
So I was like, I gotta drop themetaphors, man.
Like, we are just not on thesame page here.

Frank (01:09:24):
Oh, it's so helpful.

Lauren (01:09:26):
Oh, that's really helpful.
Yeah.
Okay.
So then, well, that brings usto our next question, which is
how can people find your coursesor work with you?

Annie (01:09:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
So my website isanniebertron.com and on the
social media it's astrology withAnnie across all platforms.
And everything is linked upthere.
So I do my signature familyreadings, like I was telling
you, where I look at all of youtogether, how you complement
each other if there's past lifestuff, all that good stuff.
And then I also have anancestral astrology course,
which is self-led, but you learnall of the placements really

(01:09:57):
through the lens of your family,and you actually heal.
So every single module hasvisualizations or different like
tarot spreads or whatever tolike get to the root of the
bottom of it.
And like not just I'm learningthis, we're actually like
healing the lineage um at thesame time.
And then I offer one-on-onementorship as well.

Lauren (01:10:15):
Oh, that's fantastic.
So cool.
Yeah.
Wow.
Okay.
Thank you so much for so muchinsight today.
I'm about to go on anotherlittle dive.
I feel you've given me thesafety to feel like, okay, I can
learn more.

Frank (01:10:32):
You could do this.
You lit Lauren up.
She's fired up.

Lauren (01:10:35):
Yeah, I'm fired up.
Yeah.
Love it.

Annie (01:10:37):
Thank you so much.
You're so welcome.
It was such a blast.
You guys are so fun.
I love talking with you.

Frank (01:10:47):
Thank you for listening.
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(01:11:08):
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