October 22, 2025 • 44 mins
In this Behind The Radio, we will be digging into the Great Amherst Mystery a little deeper, look at some of the alternative explanations, and see if we can find a way to explain the events of the Amherst haunting. I'll also be sharing another personal account, this time about moving into a haunted house as a child and some of the true events that I experienced there- with one that closely mirrors an event that took place during the Amherst haunting. A solid, creepy follow up to our last creepy episode.
Pour a drink, maybe grab a bundle of sage, and let's dig into some spooky stories.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Welcome to Behind the Radio season 3.
(00:43):
Good evening curious minds out there across the world and
welcome to the Behind the Radio for Season 3 episode 10, Mind to
Kill the Great Amherst Mystery. This was a wild one.
It remains one of the best documented Hinds of all time.
It wasn't just the Teed family, Hubble, or even just the various
people that were mentioned as orwithin the story who were
(01:05):
witness to the events that took place.
Aside from doctors and clergymen, a large portion of
the residents of Amherst and even a lot of the surrounding
areas and beyond, we're actuallyPrivy to seeing and hearing
various parts of the haunting. While some of it may possibly be
explained as just being parlor tricks and intentional
(01:27):
deception, and elements of Esther's torment could
potentially be dismissed as a mental health crisis.
Getting into all these theories a little bit more in a minute.
But other events that were recorded really aren't so easily
explained away. The teen family weren't just
crazies, they were actually verywell respected, upstanding
members of the Amherst community, if you will, which is
(01:49):
a big reason that the case was so impactful for the residents
there at the time, and probably why it stuck around for all
these years. Walter Hubble is an interesting
character too. There seems to kind of be two
primary schools of thought when it comes to his involvement.
And like I said, we'll get into both of those angles a little
more in depth in just a minute before we dive back into the
events of this insane haunting. How are You Beautiful people
(02:12):
doing today? Finally starting to cool down a
little and feel like fall where I'm at at least.
Which is definitely a welcome change in my opinion.
Especially after a long and ridiculously hot summer filled
with me toting around a couple £100 of equipment, setting it
up, performing, breaking it down, loading it in and out, all
that good stuff while wearing a suit all summer.
(02:33):
Needless to say, I'm ready for some cooler weather.
Plus, I'm always loving this time of year.
Fall, and particularly Halloweenhas always been that time of
year that I always really look forward to the most.
When I was a little especially. And I mean, I could do without
winter, and I'm sure I'll be complaining about freezing and
being sick of the cold here in amonth or two, but for now at
(02:53):
least, I'm really glad for the change of weather.
I hope that you guys are all enjoying the new spooky season
schedule that we're doing for this season.
I just figured it'd be a good way to try and squeeze out a few
more episodes than we normally do this month without all of the
like, super research intensive stuff that goes into a normal
episode. I mean, there's still quite a
(03:15):
bit that goes into these. Just because I have a problem, I
insist on multiple sources and being as accurate as possible
and covering everything in a lotof these cases.
So Which I know probably takes some of the fun out of it,
especially for these crazier stories at times, but.
I really have tried to balance it a little bit better with
(03:35):
these and to also do more with the soundtrack and soundscaping
to them to try and kind of hopefully I guess at least make
it a little more fun and immersive for you.
But I'd I'd love to hear your take on it though.
If you like this, if you don't like this, we can switch things
around next season depending on what your thoughts are.
There's going to be a quick pollon Spotify page.
(03:56):
I may also post it to Facebook. We'll just have to see about
that. But I wouldn't really appreciate
if you guys would take just a second and respond.
It's just one question and it really helps me know about the
direction to take the show in because I mean, the more I know
about your thoughts on things, the better I can make the show
and the more I can kind of tune that to be an experience that
(04:16):
you get get a little bit more out of, I guess.
And I hate to harp on it. I know I say it every time and
everyone else does too. But comments are also really
helpful, both to get more exposure for the show, but
primarily just to help me know what I'm doing right or wrong
and what you guys like or you don't like so that I can try and
make the show a little more enjoyable for everybody.
(04:37):
Either way, I really appreciate you guys tuning in regardless if
you interact or not. But let me stop rambling and
let's go ahead and dig into thislast episode.
(05:02):
OK, so wild episode there. I did my best to cover that as
accurately as I know it to be. I guess it's a good way to put
that going from contemporary news sources.
And of course, a lot of it came from Hubble's book that
supposedly it was written directly from his journal that
he kept during the time that he was there and interviews that he
(05:25):
did with the family. There is a potentially key
detail that I left out of the story though, and I did this
just because it's been often cited as a reason to just
dismiss the entire case. Anytime skeptics can find like a
a little nugget like this, they tend to use that to excuse away
everything that happened when a lot of what happened really
(05:48):
doesn't fit into something that would be influenced by this, In
my opinion at least. But we'll talk more about that
in a minute. I guess.
Primarily, I just didn't want itto color the lens through which
the story is being told. If you're here, though, chances
are you want the whole story, and I guess it's kind of
impossible to tell you all that without at least first covering
(06:09):
what happened to Esther on the night of August 28th, 1878.
So Esther was going on a ride with this guy.
He was courting her. I think she kind of had a crush
on him, but they weren't extremely familiar and they
hadn't really hung out, as best I could tell.
And this guy's name was Bob McNeil, and he was a local
(06:30):
Shoemaker. Now, if you paid really close
attention to the episode, that description already likely
seemed kind of familiar to you as the main spirit that was
referred to as a demon and a fire fiend by Walter Hubbell.
Bob Nicholl was also said to be a Shoemaker in life and kind of
similar names, but we'll dig into that a little more in a
(06:51):
minute. So anyways, Esther and Bob were
out on a carriage ride that afternoon and they were heading
out of the city into a very rural area, like a little Grove
of trees. And it was starting to get late.
Looked like it could storm. Esther was, you know, kind of
like, what are we doing here? I need to be headed home.
And if this Bob would pull the carriage over and he drew a big
(07:15):
revolver out of his coat pocket aimed at Esther's heart and told
her to get out. I guess unsure of what nefarious
plans he had for Esther was terrified and she refused to
move and insisted that he go ahead and just take her home.
And her refusal infuriated Bob. He became more insistent and
began making his way back up onto the buggy like he was going
(07:38):
to pull. Her off of it and force her to
comply I suppose. But in a stroke of absolute,
pure luck, it just so happened that right at this time, another
carriage was making its way along that same desolate stretch
of road. And when Bob heard it
approaching in the distance, he got scared.
He was afraid, I guess, if he persisted, he was likely to get
(08:00):
caught. So he just tucked away the
revolver and got back into his seat, pulling away before the
other carriage could get to him.And at this point, it's now
quite dark, and it began rainingpretty hard.
And Bob still really. We pissed off and cracking the
reins and drove Esther towards her house at top speed, freaking
around even further, and by the time she got back home her
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clothes were soaked through and through.
And she was said to have been ina hysterical condition.
Make up that when you will. When researching this element
for his book, Walter Hubble would find that Bob had a quote,
cruel disposition and as a boy had been known to.
And this is kind of disgusting and infuriating, but it's part
of the story, so bear with me. But he was known to have skinned
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cats and let them run around suffering like that until they
died. So suffice it to say, Bob was
Bob was a piece of shit. I'm just going to go ahead and
say that Bob is a piece of shit,and to what degree this
experience actually affected theevents that would follow is kind
of hard to say, but I personallywould struggle to believe that
it played absolutely no role. I also don't think that it
(09:09):
really accounts for 80 to 90% ofwhat went on, just again, in my
opinion, but in the epilogue of Hubble's book, he comments about
his various theories that he held throughout the course of
the story and kind of dismisses them.
Each one as, you know, things, facts change and he changes his
(09:30):
opinion. But he finally ends up
concluding that Bob McNeil was basically, though he uses more
antiquated terms, but was basically possessed by a demon,
an evil spirit, whatever of Bob Nickel.
And after that incident, it basically just kind of attached
itself to Esther and she carriedit home with her.
(09:51):
He also mentions that one of thesix spirits who made themselves
known that one time was named Eliza McNeil, and she claimed to
be Bob Mcneil's sister. There wasn't really like any
kind of a big deal made about that during the book, and he
really kind of just brings it upin passing at the end of it.
But something to consider, I suppose.
(10:11):
But I'm going to go ahead and just include Hubble's full book
for you in PDF format. I'm going to stick that in the
Discord if anybody wants to dig in a little deeper on it or
actually read it for themselves.Hubble, like I said in the
episode, had a history with the supernatural, but from the
perspective of a skeptic and a debunker of particularly of
(10:31):
mediums. Basically.
I think I briefly touched on it in the in the story.
But he was well familiar with stagecraft, being an actor and
familiar with the mechanical devices and techniques used to
create like knocking sounds and illusions of kind of stuff that
spiritualist of the time would be using to fool people.
And also. He was familiar with a lot of
(10:55):
the techniques used by the magicians of that time, so he
felt pretty confident that he would have been able to detect
or spot any kind of deceptions had Esther or family been, I
guess, faking the event. Somehow.
He got into that after a close friend lost their mother and
then they got sucked into the world of fake mediums.
(11:16):
And we're getting ripped off, fleeced by these people on a
consistent basis. And so he decided to try and
break them out of that and launch his own investigation of
them. And fake mediums were a dime a
dozen at this point in history. For the record.
He decided to, you know, expose one after another after another
that his friend was dealing withjust to kind of show him that,
(11:37):
you know, hey, this is. All BS you're getting taken for
your money and it's not doing you any good.
Because he felt that it was damaging his friend's mental
health. And according to Hubble, it was
this success that led him to head to the house in Amherst
that he had been reading so muchabout in the press.
And I, I guess it was in an attempt to try to prove that it
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was all fake and to put an end to the quote UN quote mystery.
And he also states in his book that the, the whole intention of
taking her on, that speaking to her was also to try to expose
the mystery and to make money off it while doing so.
I mean, he openly admits that, which brings us to Hubble's true
intentions, which really kind offollows along 2 schools of
(12:19):
thought. And I, I kind of alluded to it
earlier, but it's really just two lines that you can to pass.
Let's say that you can go down and looking at this, which is
either he legitimately came to expose the mystery and profit as
he says. And then when he was unable to
disprove it, he became convincedsince it was real.
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And he just kind of got sucked into the story.
And he was keeping a journal as he was known to do anyway.
And then he later decided to just publish the information in
his journal later on down the road as like an afterthought.
The other version goes along thelines of money being at the
forefront the entire time. And when the lecture tour
crashed and burned, I guess you could say he still remained A
(13:01):
skeptic but just pivoted to trying to capitalize off of
helping to push the story. But the plan being all along to
write a book about it. And both of those seem, I guess,
equally likely at first glance. But as seems to be the case more
times than not, the truth likelykind of lies somewhere in that
Gray area in between them. While journalism, especially
(13:22):
during that time during the timethat our story took place, is
rife for sensationalizing things, it may be worth at least
considering that several major publications were already
covering the story well before Hubble inserted himself into the
picture. And like I said it, it's widely
considered one of the most well documented poltergeist case in
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the world. And there were many first hand
witnesses that really ran the gamut from doctors, clergymen,
authors, ordinary talents, folk,wealthy and powerful people,
newspaper reporters, all of which kind of I feel lend a
little bit of credence at least the story holding weight beyond
what Hubble documented. At the same time, I find it hard
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to completely dismiss the traumaof esters you know near SA
playing a role in the events or at least influencing how she
experienced what was taking place.
As much as I would love to just tie this up into a neat little
bow for you guys and and give a solid singular explanation for
what took place, I don't honestly feel that anyone
(14:27):
explanation really covers enoughground that I guess fully
encapsulate and define what tookplace.
I did write down a few little notes if you can't tell.
I'm definitely just shooting from the hip for 90% of this
tonight, but I did write down a couple of things that are
alternative explanations that people have, you know, put
together. And I guess each one could kind
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of account at least for some of what was purported to have
happened. I don't think that any one of
them fully explains it though. Then I'll give you my personal
thoughts and everything at the end of it.
The first one of those being like we kind of touched on a
minute ago, it being a hoax or afraud just for attention and
financial gain. Esther may have faked some of
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the phenomena to seek attention because at this point she was
going through personal and family upheaval.
Aside from her incident with Bob, she had also been dealing
with the death of her mother andher father had just got
remarried and wasn't really in her life.
That's why she was staying. Fatigue, family and this could
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have started, you know, small and just gradually grew into a
public spectacle as more people and more eyes and attention fell
on the case and especially once Hubble got involved in the
second one. It's worth at least looking at
is psychological or dissociativestate.
Beyond the trauma that we discussed, Esther symptoms like
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swelling, rigidity, seizures andtrance like states align
decently with hysteria or dissociative triggered by
extreme stress IE basically likea what we would call a
psychological break now. And if we look at it this way,
she may have unconsciously caused some of these
disturbances during altered mental States and been totally
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unaware of her actions, like a fugue state or PTSD response,
rather than it being deliberate trickery.
And the next potential quote UN quote debunking focuses on, and
this one's very unlikely in my personal opinion, but it's been
cited several times so I want tocover it.
Some may have been caused by human interference from Bob
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McNeil basically saying that he continued to torment her by
perhaps sneaking around to create noises or move objects
when no one was around. He may have been behind setting
some of the fires or even the one that stabbed her with the
objects. I guess in order to get revenge
or to make her seem like she wastotally crazy, just to try to
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lessen the impact of, you know, if she told someone about what
he did, they would be less likely to believe her if they
thought she was crazy and had all these ghost things
happening. Which I mean, I guess that's
kind of a possibility, but I just can't imagine this guy
sneaking around constantly doingall this stuff with so much that
was going on. But in this view, the phenomena
is interpreted as targeted harassment rather than ghost
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most activity. Considering the case as a whole,
this scooby-doo angle here, I think it kind of falls apart
under any real scrutiny. Which leads us to the 4th 1.
Exaggeration and exploitation meaning reports may have been
inflated by sensationalism, withHubble's later biased account
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dominating the narrative in the name of prophet.
The activity only seemed to occur around Esther, seemed to
follow her, and then later ceased after public humiliation,
EG jail time for the arson, which you could see that that
would make her want to lessen the attention on her.
And I mean she even later relocated, perhaps suggesting
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that it wasn't an independent entity, but more so tied to her
circumstances and her enablers. There is also room for quite a
bit of overlap among several of those, and taken as a whole may
highlight how 19th century limitations and psychology and
forensics could turn what may have been just a personal crisis
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met with enabling and financial motivations into a quote UN
quote mystery. If everything occurred as it was
said to have, though, nothing really provides A satisfactory
answer to explain the happenings, Not even all of
those skeptical takes combined do.
The problem lies in the fact that we are now so far removed
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from the events that happened orwho are alleged to have taken
place now. There's really no definitive way
to know how much was fact and how much was either exaggerated
at best, or even totally fabricated at worst.
Therein lies the issue with investigating historical
mysteries in general, and why somuch about our collective past
(19:13):
is lost or only told from one perspective, which naturally is
typically from the perspective of the victor.
So an end we're really left withtwo conclusions that we can
choose from. Either we take the events at
face value because we have no solid ground from which to
repudiate the claims, or we reject the possibility full stop
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because we have no way to validate the claims beyond one
man's full account and the assortment of contemporary
reporting which has been proven to be subject to bias and even
all out fabrication. I don't see much validity in
Vince sitting with this case though.
To admit that any part of the hunting took place as it was
recorded honestly defies the norm of what we imagine is
(19:58):
possible to have taken place. So if any of it was possible and
happened as stated, then it becomes virtually impossible to
stand on solid ground and sayingthere another part was
definitely not true and couldn'thave taken place.
In cases where we're unable to retroactively prove or disprove
what took place definitively, wereally only have the option of
(20:21):
believing it or not. Or not, that's what it comes
down to, because at the end of the day, all we are left with
are opinions anyway. So I guess what do you believe
took place? Which side of the fence do you
find yourself on? Let me know in the comments.
I'm genuinely curious about this.
Do you agree that a case like this ultimately boils down to a
binary choice like I said, or isthere a middle ground that I'm
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overlooking that I guess makes more sense?
I asked because look at that. I'm genuinely curious here and
if you have a take that would shine more light on this case or
make more sense than what I've brought up, then I would really
love to be enlightened by it. I try to learn as much as I can
about any subject and I can onlygo so far with this one because
of the limited sources on it. So if you've got, you know, some
(21:07):
input that you'd like to give, bring it on.
I would love to hear about it. So now normally I would just
give you guys my thoughts on it some and then cover some news
stories of their stuff that I want to talk about.
And I just honestly don't know what I think about this one,
which is a big reason that I wanted to cover it.
It's impossible to prove, sure, but it's equally impossible to
(21:29):
completely disprove it, or I guess even confidently, in my
opinion at least, dismiss it alltogether.
It's just one of those stories that you run into that seems to
leave a lot of questions and very few if any real answers.
Having experienced my share of paranormal incidents throughout
my life, I certainly can't say that it's totally impossible,
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and I've been witness to severalthings that I cannot explain and
would otherwise think we're impossible if somebody told me.
To be honest, some of these I'veshared already, but there have
been many more, and in lieu of talking about the ever
increasingly depressing news around the world right now, I
(22:10):
figured we'd keep things in the spirit of Halloween and I'll
just get into a little bit of those now for you.
(22:31):
OK, so when my family and I moved down here to the South
from Cincinnati, Oh, my dad tooklike.
A way? Lower paying position, he was
working as a foreman at a Ford factory up there, but there
wasn't anything that really translated to that here.
And he ended up taking like a night security job at TVA, at
(22:52):
the nuclear facility. And my mother at the time was
just starting her schooling, secondary schooling for the
career that she was going into. So she wasn't really able to put
very much money in at that time either.
So what we were able to do was finance a decent plot of land
for a suspiciously low price, along with the single wide
(23:17):
trailer to put on it. The land was about 7 1/2 acres.
And in the. Early 80s shouldn't have been
out of our reach to be honest. It was the most affordable and
the largest plot that we found though, so my parents jumped on
it while they were in the talks to buy it or whatever.
The Realtors disclosed that the previous owner had been shot in
(23:37):
the front yard over a dispute that his son had gotten into.
With some kind of pretty rough people, I believe she hinted or
alluded to the fact that it was over drugs without really saying
it. But I guess that they figured,
you know, who cares? It's cheap and nicer than
anything else that we've seen sofar.
So besides, at that point in time, both of them were hardened
(24:00):
skeptics and neither of them believed in ghosts or hauntings
or anything like that anyway. So there, that was kind of like
the last thing that we're worried about.
It was just a footnote. So anyways, they bought it and
they got a trailer and we moved in and it was great at first,
honestly. I mean, it was a total culture
shock for me, but it was great. It was almost idyllic, you know,
we were out in the country. It was just us, a lot of woods
(24:23):
to run around and play in, whichI did constantly in my youth.
But it wouldn't take long beforethings started happening.
Like little small stuff. At first the TV would turn on at
random or off. The faucet in the sink, in the
kitchen, and both in the bathroom as well would just cut
on. With no one anywhere around it,
things that skeptics like my parents could pretty easily come
(24:45):
up with some sort of excuse to explain away.
IE the electrical has issues, the power surges are messing
with the TV, the water pressure isn't regulated, or there's a
leak in the valve causing the pressure to build up and cut the
sink on. Little did we know that that was
just the start of all this though, so a few weeks after
we'd moved in, maybe I was. Playing out in the front yard
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and I noticed that there was this spot.
It was like a circle. Maybe 3 feet.
Across in circumference, you know, But no grass would grow on
it and the dirt was like pitch black.
To this day, I've never seen a spot like this.
I have no explanation for it, but it was just this black spot
on earth where nothing would grow, not even Moss.
(25:30):
And mind you, my front yard at that time was on about a 75°
slope, so it's not like anybody was parking a car there there
and it was run off from that or there's really no reasonable
excuse for why that spot existed.
But it struck young me as being extremely odd.
It was strange enough that I immediately went inside and told
(25:50):
my parents about it and they didn't have an excuse for this
one, but they also seemed prettyunconcerned and probably just
told me that it was likely just something on the surface.
It was killing the grass or something.
Overly curious me went back out the next day with a beach pail
and a little shovel and I started digging to see what it
(26:10):
was. I really wanted to know if it
just kept going down and was like that swirler.
It wasn't a surface issue. Whatever the cause was, it went
as far down as I could dig. Black as night all the way down.
But put a pin in that for now. It'll come up at the very end to
try and go through everything that I experienced.
But that house would take a verylong full episode or more.
(26:34):
So for the sake of this episode,I'm just going to touch on a few
events that were kind of a catalyst while we were there and
that I still vividly remember. One of those being the one that
relates kind of to, well, that one situation in the story that
I mentioned briefly. We had lived there for a little
(26:55):
while. I'm not sure exactly how long,
but I do know that at this pointI was in the third grade and
that's when things really escalated around me.
What was just like random eventsand odd sounds seem to kind of
coalesce into some seemingly unified power that was damned
(27:15):
and determined to make my life there hell.
I remember the first incident inthis series of events vividly.
So much showed that it still effects how I sleep to this very
day as a grown ass adult. Yes, it was the week before
Halloween. I remember that specifically,
and I'll explain why. That year, like pretty much
every year as a kid, I was goingto be a vampire for Halloween
(27:37):
and I'd already secured my costume at this point and even
talked to my mom somehow and into buying me a little rubber
bat. You might my 80s babies might
remember this. It was the kind with the rubber
strands on top so that you couldwrap it over your finger and
make the wings look like they'reflapping.
And I was super excited about itbecause I'd seen somebody else
(27:58):
was one day prior gear and I hadn't pointed that damn bat for
a year at this point. So I was really hyped that I got
it and I kept it in this small box that was beside my bed next
to my radio. And I would occasionally just
check on it as a child would at least a weird like me and I'd
pull that thing out and sneak around and play with it pretty
(28:19):
much every day leading up to Halloween and then usually be
told that I'm going to break it before Halloween and put it
away. So I would.
So I was laying in bed. I was trying to fall asleep.
It was abnormally hot for October that night, which really
isn't that uncommon for Alabama,I guess.
And so I was trying to seek out cold spots on the bed with like
my hands on my feet. You know you've reached up under
(28:41):
the cold side of the pillow or or try to find a spot when you
haven't laid just to make yourself.
Feel a little bit cooler? And sure, I could have just
kicked the covers off, but I'm still a kid and I've already
experienced my share of weird crap there, so Needless to say,
my covers were staying right there in place.
Because you never know, I might need to hide.
And we all know that pulling thecovers over your head makes you
(29:01):
invisible, so I was literally prepared to sweat to death
before they were going anywhere.Anyway, I'm stretching out hand
under pillow a little cooler feet seeking towards the bottom
of the bed to try and cool them down when my right foot hit
something. It was unexpected, but I wasn't
thinking that it was, you know, anything crazy.
So I kept kind of like moving myfoot up and down and and
(29:22):
stretching out a little more andfeeling it, trying to kind of
get a sense of the shape of it. And then just all of a sudden, I
realized what it was that I was touching and that that was a
wrinkled hand. Like I could feel the nails, I
could feel the knuckles. Like it was.
Vivid in my mind and I immediately sucked both feet up
right under my butt and ducked down underneath the covers.
(29:44):
My mind was racing to try to explain what just happened.
Then it kind of hits me and it has to be that toy bat.
And if you recall, if you've seen these, they had sort of a
veiny texture, for lack of a better term, all along the
wings. It was very textured, best I can
describe it. It's so feeling a little bit of
(30:04):
relief, I guess, from that realization that I had and
relaxing slightly. I just tell myself that I must
have forgotten to put it up and I just, you know, didn't see it
when I got in bed or made the bed or whatever.
It was just that. But just to put my fears at rest
and to confirm that my theory was right, I went ahead and
reached over and opened up the top to the box that I kept it.
(30:25):
And just to show myself that it's in there and I can chill,
lean further to darken the room.Can't really see the shadow on
the box, hell glow of the night light all the way across the
room. Not doing a lot, but I reach in
and the bats in there. So panic sits in.
I don't dare scream or go running from my covers.
Yeah I do. I just start sprinting out the
(30:47):
hallway, dash into my mom's room, my parents room rather
mumbling my story. 90 miles an hour at them.
So my mom gets up, takes me backin there to show me that it's
nothing. Takes me back, throws back the
covers. I cringe when she does that.
I'm expecting to see something super creepy but there is
nothing there. So of course I'm told it was
just a nightmare and to lay backdown and go to sleep and not to
(31:09):
bother him again, even though I was definitely wide awake for
the entirety of that process. So that was night one.
The next real event that I remember is the one that I
mentioned that paralleled the Amherst story.
I'm going to be completely honest with you here, my
childhood, it wasn't the greatest, as I'm sure many of us
can probably say in one regard or another, but due to certain
(31:32):
events, a lot of it was or kind of became.
Compressed or even deleted entirely, or I guess at least
from a psychological standpoint,walled off to my conscious mind
for protection. So I can't be 100% certain about
how far apart these two events were.
I know that I was still in the third grade, but I could have.
It could have been the next night or months later for all I
(31:54):
know. But it seems like once these
things started and it started getting bad, it kind of all
happened pretty quick. So anyways, I'm laying in bed
and it's definitely winter by this point because.
I've got 2 thick kind of heavy blankets over me and I'm trying
my best to fall asleep, something that I'm always
struggled with. And I'm I'm staring out of the
door to my room and which lookedinto the kitchen and I'm just
(32:18):
looking at how the light was reflecting off of the oven door.
I like the handle, you know, andI know that because this
sequence of events got seared into my memory after this.
So I'm wide awake and all of a sudden I felt a very quick
strong. Slap, best I can describe it,
and it went the entire length ofmy right side, like from my head
(32:40):
to my feet. I'm a side sleeper, so I was
laying on my left side. So it was just like all of the
side that was facing up. And the reason that I know that
it was third grade is because all that my kid brain had to
relate that feeling to was it was like my third grade teacher
hitting that whole side of me with a giant paddle.
(33:01):
Like this is just how it registered in my head.
So the pain. Just me to grab my side and.
Look. To the side of the room where I
guess if there was anything in my room, it would have had to
have been so the far side acrossfrom me, so all the way across
my room. And yeah, I mean, it's a single
wide trailer, so it's not that far, but it's probably still 65
(33:22):
or 6 feet. But as far away as possible from
me. I see both of those blankets
like they were just thrown and they landed draped over my TV
sitting on top of a built in dresser.
It was, it was like a kind of AIdon't know how to describe it,
like cut out there and then a like top where you could put
things and then it had drawers. And I'm just completely confused
(33:45):
at this point. I don't think I even properly
panicked about it. And I definitely didn't want to
have to bother my parents again and just get lectured on how
they need their sleep and I'm just dreaming.
So I hesitantly get up, snatching the covers back and
dive back onto the bed, coveringmyself up as tightly as I can.
And then I just laid there trying to kind of process what
(34:06):
could have happened. And I'm laying there and
struggling to go back to sleep obviously, or struggling, still
struggling to go to sleep rather.
Maybe 5 or 10 minutes pass and I'm just starting to think OK,
maybe I'm OK, whatever, that wasit over.
And like, at that moment, something rips the blankets from
out of my tightly clenched fist and off of my body, and I watch
(34:29):
them as they vanish off the footof the bed.
Not sure where this courage camefrom.
I'm guessing that it was just borne out of my frustration.
But I sit up real quick and I scrambled to the end of the bed.
And I'm trying to, like, peer over and check if I can see what
could have done this, you know? And I still get chills at this
part. Like the hairs are standing up
(34:49):
on my arm as we speak. And I rarely ever tell this part
of the story, but my covers werethere and best I can explain it,
they were like fanned out. It wasn't like they were in a
lump. They were like fanned out, but
there was a big hump in the middle of it, like something was
underneath them. Needless to say, I was out.
(35:11):
I was, I was gone when my frustrated mom walked me back in
and she cut on the light to showme, you know, like there's
nothing in here. As the light turned on, I
watched that lump flatten out. Of course, she didn't see it.
And she was looking at my bed with no covers on it.
And of course, that was just totally dismissed when I said
something. But there's a long list of
(35:33):
things like this and plenty. They're even worse.
They took place out there. And like I said, there's too
many to try to cover here. But I will just real quickly
tell you about one more thing. Because it really changed
things, the whole dynamic of being out there.
And that was the night that my mom went from being a hardened
skeptic to a full-fledged believer.
(35:55):
So, and this is a crazy story. The first two stories that I
just told you, I had a few little notes, talking points
basically, so that I'm was sure that I got everything in like it
needed to. This one's totally off cuff, so
bear with me here. So I was staying in a friend's
house. My dad, like I said, he was
(36:16):
working nuclear security, and hewas gone all night.
He worked the night shift and got back in about 6:30 or so.
And so it's just my mom at the house.
And she goes, you know, she's laying down in bed and she
starts hearing something. She said it sounded like
pictures. We're just being knocked off the
wall in the living room, like loud noises and crashing sounds
(36:38):
coming from the living room. She's the only one there, you
know, So of course you get the gun.
And she goes creeping down the hallway in the living room.
Nothing is out of place, not a single item.
There's nothing that explains all the noises that she was
hearing. So she kind of freaked out.
But, you know, she checks all over.
There's nobody there. The doors are locked, windows
are locked. So she's like, I don't know what
(37:00):
that was, but I'm just, I'm going to go back to bed.
So she goes and lays down. No sooner did she get in the bed
than it started again. So she gets up even quicker this
time. She's determined to catch what's
going on. The sounds are still happening
as she reaches into the kitchen,which you know hits a small
trailer. So in the kitchen you can see
the living room and you can kindof see my bedroom.
(37:21):
Nothing out of place, nothing going on.
Checks my room. No one in there.
No one, no one else is in the house.
Nothing to explain away what happened.
So she's. Like I, I.
Don't even know what to do aboutthis.
She's going to try to go. Back to bed one more time.
But before she goes in bed, she decides, well I'm going to use
the bathroom. So she goes into the bathroom,
closes the door, and as the doorshuts she starts hearing the
(37:42):
same sounds, even louder coming from her bedroom on the other
side of the wall of the bathroom.
This freaked her out so bad she spent the night in the floor of
the bathroom. If you know my mom, which
obviously you don't, but if you did, you would understand how
crazy that is. I mean, this woman was such a
(38:04):
skeptic. She would find ways to explain
away anything that happened. She would never give it any kind
of credence. But after that night, even she
flipped and had to admit that something strange was going on
at this place. It wasn't in the house.
It was the land. And about that black spot.
Touchback to that real quick. I don't know for certain.
(38:28):
But I did find out that the guy that was shot on the property
did die in the front yard near the road, which is where that
black spot. Was, I can't say that that's
where he died, but it's weird and it's definitely close to it
and I have no other explanation for it.
So there's that. And that's the story of my
(38:49):
extremely haunted childhood home.
Well, at least a few events thathappened there.
It's a very long story. But I said all that to say that
hauntings, they happen and I don't know what they are.
I can't say for a certain that it's there's some intelligence
to it. I know that I don't know what
the rules are. I don't know what happens on the
(39:11):
other side, but there are entities that are conscious,
that make decisions, that have feelings, that will communicate,
and then there are residual ones.
They're kind of like just stuck in a loop, it seems, and nothing
that you do really influences them.
They're just going to keep doingwhatever it is that they do.
I ran into both several times telling you from experience that
(39:36):
it is real. I don't understand it.
I don't purport to understand it, but it happens.
Now, if you've never experiencedit for yourself, I totally
understand being skeptic. I absolutely would be, had I not
lived through the experiences that I've lived through,
definitely would not think that it's real.
If you don't have something tangible and then you've got
(39:56):
science saying, you know, it's impossible, it's not real, we
can't prove it, blah, blah, blah.
You've got all the other skeptics in your head.
You've got, you know, you don't see the reality of it portrayed
from any point of authority. So it's very easy to dismiss,
you know, it's never happened tome.
It can't be real. But I'm telling you, there is
something out there beyond what we understand.
(40:19):
I've brushed up against it way more times than I would like to.
So it happens. So the haunting that happened in
Amherst very well may have been real.
It's very well documented. It's lived on as a very
prominent story and cited quite often as the best documented
case of paranormal and particularly poltergeist
(40:40):
activity in the world. So while I can't say what
Hubble's intentions were, and while I can't prove that Esther
wasn't faking it, I can't say that there is a possibility that
everything happened the way we were told.
It's equally likely that Hubble thought is an opportunity to
make some money and capitalize off of it.
(41:01):
How much or to what degree that biased his, you know, writing on
the subject, that's up for interpretation.
But the books in the Discord, ifyou want to read it, it starts
off with an affidavit. I signed and notarized affidavit
that everything that he wrote inthe book occurred the way that
he's testifying to it have happened.
(41:22):
That adds a little bit of credence to it at least.
It's definitely something worth considering.
So if you're interested, it's inthe Discord for you.
And that's pretty much all that I've got for you guys this
evening. I've got a really, really good
creepy 1 coming up for the crescendo of all of this that's
happening on Halloween night. I think that you're going to
(41:44):
like it. It hits a lot of those folklore,
urban legend kind of points thatseem to stay around.
You know, that hits US in that kind of familiar place and and
the most unnerving stories do. This is definitely along that
(42:04):
line. I think that you guys will
really enjoy it. It's one of my favorite, you
know, kind of creepypasta urban legend, more modern lore out
there. So I don't want to give you any
more hints though. Definitely don't want to give it
away before it's time, but look forward to that.
It's dropping on Halloween nightand yeah, I really appreciate
(42:24):
you guys listening. Thank you for listening to me
ramble through this story. So sleep tight out there.
Tuck those bed covers under yourfeet, as I still do to this day.
If you hear something, go bump in the night, maybe just ignore
it and I'll talk to you guys again real soon on the next
clandestine radio. Music.
(43:45):
None.
Welcome to Behind the Radio season 3.
(00:43):
Good evening curious minds out there across the world and
welcome to the Behind the Radio for Season 3 episode 10, Mind to
Kill the Great Amherst Mystery. This was a wild one.
It remains one of the best documented Hinds of all time.
It wasn't just the Teed family, Hubble, or even just the various
people that were mentioned as orwithin the story who were
(01:05):
witness to the events that took place.
Aside from doctors and clergymen, a large portion of
the residents of Amherst and even a lot of the surrounding
areas and beyond, we're actuallyPrivy to seeing and hearing
various parts of the haunting. While some of it may possibly be
explained as just being parlor tricks and intentional
(01:27):
deception, and elements of Esther's torment could
potentially be dismissed as a mental health crisis.
Getting into all these theories a little bit more in a minute.
But other events that were recorded really aren't so easily
explained away. The teen family weren't just
crazies, they were actually verywell respected, upstanding
members of the Amherst community, if you will, which is
(01:49):
a big reason that the case was so impactful for the residents
there at the time, and probably why it stuck around for all
these years. Walter Hubble is an interesting
character too. There seems to kind of be two
primary schools of thought when it comes to his involvement.
And like I said, we'll get into both of those angles a little
more in depth in just a minute before we dive back into the
events of this insane haunting. How are You Beautiful people
(02:12):
doing today? Finally starting to cool down a
little and feel like fall where I'm at at least.
Which is definitely a welcome change in my opinion.
Especially after a long and ridiculously hot summer filled
with me toting around a couple £100 of equipment, setting it
up, performing, breaking it down, loading it in and out, all
that good stuff while wearing a suit all summer.
(02:33):
Needless to say, I'm ready for some cooler weather.
Plus, I'm always loving this time of year.
Fall, and particularly Halloweenhas always been that time of
year that I always really look forward to the most.
When I was a little especially. And I mean, I could do without
winter, and I'm sure I'll be complaining about freezing and
being sick of the cold here in amonth or two, but for now at
(02:53):
least, I'm really glad for the change of weather.
I hope that you guys are all enjoying the new spooky season
schedule that we're doing for this season.
I just figured it'd be a good way to try and squeeze out a few
more episodes than we normally do this month without all of the
like, super research intensive stuff that goes into a normal
episode. I mean, there's still quite a
(03:15):
bit that goes into these. Just because I have a problem, I
insist on multiple sources and being as accurate as possible
and covering everything in a lotof these cases.
So Which I know probably takes some of the fun out of it,
especially for these crazier stories at times, but.
I really have tried to balance it a little bit better with
(03:35):
these and to also do more with the soundtrack and soundscaping
to them to try and kind of hopefully I guess at least make
it a little more fun and immersive for you.
But I'd I'd love to hear your take on it though.
If you like this, if you don't like this, we can switch things
around next season depending on what your thoughts are.
There's going to be a quick pollon Spotify page.
(03:56):
I may also post it to Facebook. We'll just have to see about
that. But I wouldn't really appreciate
if you guys would take just a second and respond.
It's just one question and it really helps me know about the
direction to take the show in because I mean, the more I know
about your thoughts on things, the better I can make the show
and the more I can kind of tune that to be an experience that
(04:16):
you get get a little bit more out of, I guess.
And I hate to harp on it. I know I say it every time and
everyone else does too. But comments are also really
helpful, both to get more exposure for the show, but
primarily just to help me know what I'm doing right or wrong
and what you guys like or you don't like so that I can try and
make the show a little more enjoyable for everybody.
(04:37):
Either way, I really appreciate you guys tuning in regardless if
you interact or not. But let me stop rambling and
let's go ahead and dig into thislast episode.
(05:02):
OK, so wild episode there. I did my best to cover that as
accurately as I know it to be. I guess it's a good way to put
that going from contemporary news sources.
And of course, a lot of it came from Hubble's book that
supposedly it was written directly from his journal that
he kept during the time that he was there and interviews that he
(05:25):
did with the family. There is a potentially key
detail that I left out of the story though, and I did this
just because it's been often cited as a reason to just
dismiss the entire case. Anytime skeptics can find like a
a little nugget like this, they tend to use that to excuse away
everything that happened when a lot of what happened really
(05:48):
doesn't fit into something that would be influenced by this, In
my opinion at least. But we'll talk more about that
in a minute. I guess.
Primarily, I just didn't want itto color the lens through which
the story is being told. If you're here, though, chances
are you want the whole story, and I guess it's kind of
impossible to tell you all that without at least first covering
(06:09):
what happened to Esther on the night of August 28th, 1878.
So Esther was going on a ride with this guy.
He was courting her. I think she kind of had a crush
on him, but they weren't extremely familiar and they
hadn't really hung out, as best I could tell.
And this guy's name was Bob McNeil, and he was a local
(06:30):
Shoemaker. Now, if you paid really close
attention to the episode, that description already likely
seemed kind of familiar to you as the main spirit that was
referred to as a demon and a fire fiend by Walter Hubbell.
Bob Nicholl was also said to be a Shoemaker in life and kind of
similar names, but we'll dig into that a little more in a
(06:51):
minute. So anyways, Esther and Bob were
out on a carriage ride that afternoon and they were heading
out of the city into a very rural area, like a little Grove
of trees. And it was starting to get late.
Looked like it could storm. Esther was, you know, kind of
like, what are we doing here? I need to be headed home.
And if this Bob would pull the carriage over and he drew a big
(07:15):
revolver out of his coat pocket aimed at Esther's heart and told
her to get out. I guess unsure of what nefarious
plans he had for Esther was terrified and she refused to
move and insisted that he go ahead and just take her home.
And her refusal infuriated Bob. He became more insistent and
began making his way back up onto the buggy like he was going
(07:38):
to pull. Her off of it and force her to
comply I suppose. But in a stroke of absolute,
pure luck, it just so happened that right at this time, another
carriage was making its way along that same desolate stretch
of road. And when Bob heard it
approaching in the distance, he got scared.
He was afraid, I guess, if he persisted, he was likely to get
(08:00):
caught. So he just tucked away the
revolver and got back into his seat, pulling away before the
other carriage could get to him.And at this point, it's now
quite dark, and it began rainingpretty hard.
And Bob still really. We pissed off and cracking the
reins and drove Esther towards her house at top speed, freaking
around even further, and by the time she got back home her
(08:22):
clothes were soaked through and through.
And she was said to have been ina hysterical condition.
Make up that when you will. When researching this element
for his book, Walter Hubble would find that Bob had a quote,
cruel disposition and as a boy had been known to.
And this is kind of disgusting and infuriating, but it's part
of the story, so bear with me. But he was known to have skinned
(08:46):
cats and let them run around suffering like that until they
died. So suffice it to say, Bob was
Bob was a piece of shit. I'm just going to go ahead and
say that Bob is a piece of shit,and to what degree this
experience actually affected theevents that would follow is kind
of hard to say, but I personallywould struggle to believe that
it played absolutely no role. I also don't think that it
(09:09):
really accounts for 80 to 90% ofwhat went on, just again, in my
opinion, but in the epilogue of Hubble's book, he comments about
his various theories that he held throughout the course of
the story and kind of dismisses them.
Each one as, you know, things, facts change and he changes his
(09:30):
opinion. But he finally ends up
concluding that Bob McNeil was basically, though he uses more
antiquated terms, but was basically possessed by a demon,
an evil spirit, whatever of Bob Nickel.
And after that incident, it basically just kind of attached
itself to Esther and she carriedit home with her.
(09:51):
He also mentions that one of thesix spirits who made themselves
known that one time was named Eliza McNeil, and she claimed to
be Bob Mcneil's sister. There wasn't really like any
kind of a big deal made about that during the book, and he
really kind of just brings it upin passing at the end of it.
But something to consider, I suppose.
(10:11):
But I'm going to go ahead and just include Hubble's full book
for you in PDF format. I'm going to stick that in the
Discord if anybody wants to dig in a little deeper on it or
actually read it for themselves.Hubble, like I said in the
episode, had a history with the supernatural, but from the
perspective of a skeptic and a debunker of particularly of
(10:31):
mediums. Basically.
I think I briefly touched on it in the in the story.
But he was well familiar with stagecraft, being an actor and
familiar with the mechanical devices and techniques used to
create like knocking sounds and illusions of kind of stuff that
spiritualist of the time would be using to fool people.
And also. He was familiar with a lot of
(10:55):
the techniques used by the magicians of that time, so he
felt pretty confident that he would have been able to detect
or spot any kind of deceptions had Esther or family been, I
guess, faking the event. Somehow.
He got into that after a close friend lost their mother and
then they got sucked into the world of fake mediums.
(11:16):
And we're getting ripped off, fleeced by these people on a
consistent basis. And so he decided to try and
break them out of that and launch his own investigation of
them. And fake mediums were a dime a
dozen at this point in history. For the record.
He decided to, you know, expose one after another after another
that his friend was dealing withjust to kind of show him that,
(11:37):
you know, hey, this is. All BS you're getting taken for
your money and it's not doing you any good.
Because he felt that it was damaging his friend's mental
health. And according to Hubble, it was
this success that led him to head to the house in Amherst
that he had been reading so muchabout in the press.
And I, I guess it was in an attempt to try to prove that it
(11:57):
was all fake and to put an end to the quote UN quote mystery.
And he also states in his book that the, the whole intention of
taking her on, that speaking to her was also to try to expose
the mystery and to make money off it while doing so.
I mean, he openly admits that, which brings us to Hubble's true
intentions, which really kind offollows along 2 schools of
(12:19):
thought. And I, I kind of alluded to it
earlier, but it's really just two lines that you can to pass.
Let's say that you can go down and looking at this, which is
either he legitimately came to expose the mystery and profit as
he says. And then when he was unable to
disprove it, he became convincedsince it was real.
(12:39):
And he just kind of got sucked into the story.
And he was keeping a journal as he was known to do anyway.
And then he later decided to just publish the information in
his journal later on down the road as like an afterthought.
The other version goes along thelines of money being at the
forefront the entire time. And when the lecture tour
crashed and burned, I guess you could say he still remained A
(13:01):
skeptic but just pivoted to trying to capitalize off of
helping to push the story. But the plan being all along to
write a book about it. And both of those seem, I guess,
equally likely at first glance. But as seems to be the case more
times than not, the truth likelykind of lies somewhere in that
Gray area in between them. While journalism, especially
(13:22):
during that time during the timethat our story took place, is
rife for sensationalizing things, it may be worth at least
considering that several major publications were already
covering the story well before Hubble inserted himself into the
picture. And like I said it, it's widely
considered one of the most well documented poltergeist case in
(13:42):
the world. And there were many first hand
witnesses that really ran the gamut from doctors, clergymen,
authors, ordinary talents, folk,wealthy and powerful people,
newspaper reporters, all of which kind of I feel lend a
little bit of credence at least the story holding weight beyond
what Hubble documented. At the same time, I find it hard
(14:04):
to completely dismiss the traumaof esters you know near SA
playing a role in the events or at least influencing how she
experienced what was taking place.
As much as I would love to just tie this up into a neat little
bow for you guys and and give a solid singular explanation for
what took place, I don't honestly feel that anyone
(14:27):
explanation really covers enoughground that I guess fully
encapsulate and define what tookplace.
I did write down a few little notes if you can't tell.
I'm definitely just shooting from the hip for 90% of this
tonight, but I did write down a couple of things that are
alternative explanations that people have, you know, put
together. And I guess each one could kind
(14:49):
of account at least for some of what was purported to have
happened. I don't think that any one of
them fully explains it though. Then I'll give you my personal
thoughts and everything at the end of it.
The first one of those being like we kind of touched on a
minute ago, it being a hoax or afraud just for attention and
financial gain. Esther may have faked some of
(15:09):
the phenomena to seek attention because at this point she was
going through personal and family upheaval.
Aside from her incident with Bob, she had also been dealing
with the death of her mother andher father had just got
remarried and wasn't really in her life.
That's why she was staying. Fatigue, family and this could
(15:30):
have started, you know, small and just gradually grew into a
public spectacle as more people and more eyes and attention fell
on the case and especially once Hubble got involved in the
second one. It's worth at least looking at
is psychological or dissociativestate.
Beyond the trauma that we discussed, Esther symptoms like
(15:51):
swelling, rigidity, seizures andtrance like states align
decently with hysteria or dissociative triggered by
extreme stress IE basically likea what we would call a
psychological break now. And if we look at it this way,
she may have unconsciously caused some of these
disturbances during altered mental States and been totally
(16:14):
unaware of her actions, like a fugue state or PTSD response,
rather than it being deliberate trickery.
And the next potential quote UN quote debunking focuses on, and
this one's very unlikely in my personal opinion, but it's been
cited several times so I want tocover it.
Some may have been caused by human interference from Bob
(16:37):
McNeil basically saying that he continued to torment her by
perhaps sneaking around to create noises or move objects
when no one was around. He may have been behind setting
some of the fires or even the one that stabbed her with the
objects. I guess in order to get revenge
or to make her seem like she wastotally crazy, just to try to
(16:59):
lessen the impact of, you know, if she told someone about what
he did, they would be less likely to believe her if they
thought she was crazy and had all these ghost things
happening. Which I mean, I guess that's
kind of a possibility, but I just can't imagine this guy
sneaking around constantly doingall this stuff with so much that
was going on. But in this view, the phenomena
is interpreted as targeted harassment rather than ghost
(17:23):
most activity. Considering the case as a whole,
this scooby-doo angle here, I think it kind of falls apart
under any real scrutiny. Which leads us to the 4th 1.
Exaggeration and exploitation meaning reports may have been
inflated by sensationalism, withHubble's later biased account
(17:43):
dominating the narrative in the name of prophet.
The activity only seemed to occur around Esther, seemed to
follow her, and then later ceased after public humiliation,
EG jail time for the arson, which you could see that that
would make her want to lessen the attention on her.
And I mean she even later relocated, perhaps suggesting
(18:06):
that it wasn't an independent entity, but more so tied to her
circumstances and her enablers. There is also room for quite a
bit of overlap among several of those, and taken as a whole may
highlight how 19th century limitations and psychology and
forensics could turn what may have been just a personal crisis
(18:29):
met with enabling and financial motivations into a quote UN
quote mystery. If everything occurred as it was
said to have, though, nothing really provides A satisfactory
answer to explain the happenings, Not even all of
those skeptical takes combined do.
The problem lies in the fact that we are now so far removed
(18:51):
from the events that happened orwho are alleged to have taken
place now. There's really no definitive way
to know how much was fact and how much was either exaggerated
at best, or even totally fabricated at worst.
Therein lies the issue with investigating historical
mysteries in general, and why somuch about our collective past
(19:13):
is lost or only told from one perspective, which naturally is
typically from the perspective of the victor.
So an end we're really left withtwo conclusions that we can
choose from. Either we take the events at
face value because we have no solid ground from which to
repudiate the claims, or we reject the possibility full stop
(19:35):
because we have no way to validate the claims beyond one
man's full account and the assortment of contemporary
reporting which has been proven to be subject to bias and even
all out fabrication. I don't see much validity in
Vince sitting with this case though.
To admit that any part of the hunting took place as it was
recorded honestly defies the norm of what we imagine is
(19:58):
possible to have taken place. So if any of it was possible and
happened as stated, then it becomes virtually impossible to
stand on solid ground and sayingthere another part was
definitely not true and couldn'thave taken place.
In cases where we're unable to retroactively prove or disprove
what took place definitively, wereally only have the option of
(20:21):
believing it or not. Or not, that's what it comes
down to, because at the end of the day, all we are left with
are opinions anyway. So I guess what do you believe
took place? Which side of the fence do you
find yourself on? Let me know in the comments.
I'm genuinely curious about this.
Do you agree that a case like this ultimately boils down to a
binary choice like I said, or isthere a middle ground that I'm
(20:43):
overlooking that I guess makes more sense?
I asked because look at that. I'm genuinely curious here and
if you have a take that would shine more light on this case or
make more sense than what I've brought up, then I would really
love to be enlightened by it. I try to learn as much as I can
about any subject and I can onlygo so far with this one because
of the limited sources on it. So if you've got, you know, some
(21:07):
input that you'd like to give, bring it on.
I would love to hear about it. So now normally I would just
give you guys my thoughts on it some and then cover some news
stories of their stuff that I want to talk about.
And I just honestly don't know what I think about this one,
which is a big reason that I wanted to cover it.
It's impossible to prove, sure, but it's equally impossible to
(21:29):
completely disprove it, or I guess even confidently, in my
opinion at least, dismiss it alltogether.
It's just one of those stories that you run into that seems to
leave a lot of questions and very few if any real answers.
Having experienced my share of paranormal incidents throughout
my life, I certainly can't say that it's totally impossible,
(21:49):
and I've been witness to severalthings that I cannot explain and
would otherwise think we're impossible if somebody told me.
To be honest, some of these I'veshared already, but there have
been many more, and in lieu of talking about the ever
increasingly depressing news around the world right now, I
(22:10):
figured we'd keep things in the spirit of Halloween and I'll
just get into a little bit of those now for you.
(22:31):
OK, so when my family and I moved down here to the South
from Cincinnati, Oh, my dad tooklike.
A way? Lower paying position, he was
working as a foreman at a Ford factory up there, but there
wasn't anything that really translated to that here.
And he ended up taking like a night security job at TVA, at
(22:52):
the nuclear facility. And my mother at the time was
just starting her schooling, secondary schooling for the
career that she was going into. So she wasn't really able to put
very much money in at that time either.
So what we were able to do was finance a decent plot of land
for a suspiciously low price, along with the single wide
(23:17):
trailer to put on it. The land was about 7 1/2 acres.
And in the. Early 80s shouldn't have been
out of our reach to be honest. It was the most affordable and
the largest plot that we found though, so my parents jumped on
it while they were in the talks to buy it or whatever.
The Realtors disclosed that the previous owner had been shot in
(23:37):
the front yard over a dispute that his son had gotten into.
With some kind of pretty rough people, I believe she hinted or
alluded to the fact that it was over drugs without really saying
it. But I guess that they figured,
you know, who cares? It's cheap and nicer than
anything else that we've seen sofar.
So besides, at that point in time, both of them were hardened
(24:00):
skeptics and neither of them believed in ghosts or hauntings
or anything like that anyway. So there, that was kind of like
the last thing that we're worried about.
It was just a footnote. So anyways, they bought it and
they got a trailer and we moved in and it was great at first,
honestly. I mean, it was a total culture
shock for me, but it was great. It was almost idyllic, you know,
we were out in the country. It was just us, a lot of woods
(24:23):
to run around and play in, whichI did constantly in my youth.
But it wouldn't take long beforethings started happening.
Like little small stuff. At first the TV would turn on at
random or off. The faucet in the sink, in the
kitchen, and both in the bathroom as well would just cut
on. With no one anywhere around it,
things that skeptics like my parents could pretty easily come
(24:45):
up with some sort of excuse to explain away.
IE the electrical has issues, the power surges are messing
with the TV, the water pressure isn't regulated, or there's a
leak in the valve causing the pressure to build up and cut the
sink on. Little did we know that that was
just the start of all this though, so a few weeks after
we'd moved in, maybe I was. Playing out in the front yard
(25:08):
and I noticed that there was this spot.
It was like a circle. Maybe 3 feet.
Across in circumference, you know, But no grass would grow on
it and the dirt was like pitch black.
To this day, I've never seen a spot like this.
I have no explanation for it, but it was just this black spot
on earth where nothing would grow, not even Moss.
(25:30):
And mind you, my front yard at that time was on about a 75°
slope, so it's not like anybody was parking a car there there
and it was run off from that or there's really no reasonable
excuse for why that spot existed.
But it struck young me as being extremely odd.
It was strange enough that I immediately went inside and told
(25:50):
my parents about it and they didn't have an excuse for this
one, but they also seemed prettyunconcerned and probably just
told me that it was likely just something on the surface.
It was killing the grass or something.
Overly curious me went back out the next day with a beach pail
and a little shovel and I started digging to see what it
(26:10):
was. I really wanted to know if it
just kept going down and was like that swirler.
It wasn't a surface issue. Whatever the cause was, it went
as far down as I could dig. Black as night all the way down.
But put a pin in that for now. It'll come up at the very end to
try and go through everything that I experienced.
But that house would take a verylong full episode or more.
(26:34):
So for the sake of this episode,I'm just going to touch on a few
events that were kind of a catalyst while we were there and
that I still vividly remember. One of those being the one that
relates kind of to, well, that one situation in the story that
I mentioned briefly. We had lived there for a little
(26:55):
while. I'm not sure exactly how long,
but I do know that at this pointI was in the third grade and
that's when things really escalated around me.
What was just like random eventsand odd sounds seem to kind of
coalesce into some seemingly unified power that was damned
(27:15):
and determined to make my life there hell.
I remember the first incident inthis series of events vividly.
So much showed that it still effects how I sleep to this very
day as a grown ass adult. Yes, it was the week before
Halloween. I remember that specifically,
and I'll explain why. That year, like pretty much
every year as a kid, I was goingto be a vampire for Halloween
(27:37):
and I'd already secured my costume at this point and even
talked to my mom somehow and into buying me a little rubber
bat. You might my 80s babies might
remember this. It was the kind with the rubber
strands on top so that you couldwrap it over your finger and
make the wings look like they'reflapping.
And I was super excited about itbecause I'd seen somebody else
(27:58):
was one day prior gear and I hadn't pointed that damn bat for
a year at this point. So I was really hyped that I got
it and I kept it in this small box that was beside my bed next
to my radio. And I would occasionally just
check on it as a child would at least a weird like me and I'd
pull that thing out and sneak around and play with it pretty
(28:19):
much every day leading up to Halloween and then usually be
told that I'm going to break it before Halloween and put it
away. So I would.
So I was laying in bed. I was trying to fall asleep.
It was abnormally hot for October that night, which really
isn't that uncommon for Alabama,I guess.
And so I was trying to seek out cold spots on the bed with like
my hands on my feet. You know you've reached up under
(28:41):
the cold side of the pillow or or try to find a spot when you
haven't laid just to make yourself.
Feel a little bit cooler? And sure, I could have just
kicked the covers off, but I'm still a kid and I've already
experienced my share of weird crap there, so Needless to say,
my covers were staying right there in place.
Because you never know, I might need to hide.
And we all know that pulling thecovers over your head makes you
(29:01):
invisible, so I was literally prepared to sweat to death
before they were going anywhere.Anyway, I'm stretching out hand
under pillow a little cooler feet seeking towards the bottom
of the bed to try and cool them down when my right foot hit
something. It was unexpected, but I wasn't
thinking that it was, you know, anything crazy.
So I kept kind of like moving myfoot up and down and and
(29:22):
stretching out a little more andfeeling it, trying to kind of
get a sense of the shape of it. And then just all of a sudden, I
realized what it was that I was touching and that that was a
wrinkled hand. Like I could feel the nails, I
could feel the knuckles. Like it was.
Vivid in my mind and I immediately sucked both feet up
right under my butt and ducked down underneath the covers.
(29:44):
My mind was racing to try to explain what just happened.
Then it kind of hits me and it has to be that toy bat.
And if you recall, if you've seen these, they had sort of a
veiny texture, for lack of a better term, all along the
wings. It was very textured, best I can
describe it. It's so feeling a little bit of
(30:04):
relief, I guess, from that realization that I had and
relaxing slightly. I just tell myself that I must
have forgotten to put it up and I just, you know, didn't see it
when I got in bed or made the bed or whatever.
It was just that. But just to put my fears at rest
and to confirm that my theory was right, I went ahead and
reached over and opened up the top to the box that I kept it.
(30:25):
And just to show myself that it's in there and I can chill,
lean further to darken the room.Can't really see the shadow on
the box, hell glow of the night light all the way across the
room. Not doing a lot, but I reach in
and the bats in there. So panic sits in.
I don't dare scream or go running from my covers.
Yeah I do. I just start sprinting out the
(30:47):
hallway, dash into my mom's room, my parents room rather
mumbling my story. 90 miles an hour at them.
So my mom gets up, takes me backin there to show me that it's
nothing. Takes me back, throws back the
covers. I cringe when she does that.
I'm expecting to see something super creepy but there is
nothing there. So of course I'm told it was
just a nightmare and to lay backdown and go to sleep and not to
(31:09):
bother him again, even though I was definitely wide awake for
the entirety of that process. So that was night one.
The next real event that I remember is the one that I
mentioned that paralleled the Amherst story.
I'm going to be completely honest with you here, my
childhood, it wasn't the greatest, as I'm sure many of us
can probably say in one regard or another, but due to certain
(31:32):
events, a lot of it was or kind of became.
Compressed or even deleted entirely, or I guess at least
from a psychological standpoint,walled off to my conscious mind
for protection. So I can't be 100% certain about
how far apart these two events were.
I know that I was still in the third grade, but I could have.
It could have been the next night or months later for all I
(31:54):
know. But it seems like once these
things started and it started getting bad, it kind of all
happened pretty quick. So anyways, I'm laying in bed
and it's definitely winter by this point because.
I've got 2 thick kind of heavy blankets over me and I'm trying
my best to fall asleep, something that I'm always
struggled with. And I'm I'm staring out of the
door to my room and which lookedinto the kitchen and I'm just
(32:18):
looking at how the light was reflecting off of the oven door.
I like the handle, you know, andI know that because this
sequence of events got seared into my memory after this.
So I'm wide awake and all of a sudden I felt a very quick
strong. Slap, best I can describe it,
and it went the entire length ofmy right side, like from my head
(32:40):
to my feet. I'm a side sleeper, so I was
laying on my left side. So it was just like all of the
side that was facing up. And the reason that I know that
it was third grade is because all that my kid brain had to
relate that feeling to was it was like my third grade teacher
hitting that whole side of me with a giant paddle.
(33:01):
Like this is just how it registered in my head.
So the pain. Just me to grab my side and.
Look. To the side of the room where I
guess if there was anything in my room, it would have had to
have been so the far side acrossfrom me, so all the way across
my room. And yeah, I mean, it's a single
wide trailer, so it's not that far, but it's probably still 65
(33:22):
or 6 feet. But as far away as possible from
me. I see both of those blankets
like they were just thrown and they landed draped over my TV
sitting on top of a built in dresser.
It was, it was like a kind of AIdon't know how to describe it,
like cut out there and then a like top where you could put
things and then it had drawers. And I'm just completely confused
(33:45):
at this point. I don't think I even properly
panicked about it. And I definitely didn't want to
have to bother my parents again and just get lectured on how
they need their sleep and I'm just dreaming.
So I hesitantly get up, snatching the covers back and
dive back onto the bed, coveringmyself up as tightly as I can.
And then I just laid there trying to kind of process what
(34:06):
could have happened. And I'm laying there and
struggling to go back to sleep obviously, or struggling, still
struggling to go to sleep rather.
Maybe 5 or 10 minutes pass and I'm just starting to think OK,
maybe I'm OK, whatever, that wasit over.
And like, at that moment, something rips the blankets from
out of my tightly clenched fist and off of my body, and I watch
(34:29):
them as they vanish off the footof the bed.
Not sure where this courage camefrom.
I'm guessing that it was just borne out of my frustration.
But I sit up real quick and I scrambled to the end of the bed.
And I'm trying to, like, peer over and check if I can see what
could have done this, you know? And I still get chills at this
part. Like the hairs are standing up
(34:49):
on my arm as we speak. And I rarely ever tell this part
of the story, but my covers werethere and best I can explain it,
they were like fanned out. It wasn't like they were in a
lump. They were like fanned out, but
there was a big hump in the middle of it, like something was
underneath them. Needless to say, I was out.
(35:11):
I was, I was gone when my frustrated mom walked me back in
and she cut on the light to showme, you know, like there's
nothing in here. As the light turned on, I
watched that lump flatten out. Of course, she didn't see it.
And she was looking at my bed with no covers on it.
And of course, that was just totally dismissed when I said
something. But there's a long list of
(35:33):
things like this and plenty. They're even worse.
They took place out there. And like I said, there's too
many to try to cover here. But I will just real quickly
tell you about one more thing. Because it really changed
things, the whole dynamic of being out there.
And that was the night that my mom went from being a hardened
skeptic to a full-fledged believer.
(35:55):
So, and this is a crazy story. The first two stories that I
just told you, I had a few little notes, talking points
basically, so that I'm was sure that I got everything in like it
needed to. This one's totally off cuff, so
bear with me here. So I was staying in a friend's
house. My dad, like I said, he was
(36:16):
working nuclear security, and hewas gone all night.
He worked the night shift and got back in about 6:30 or so.
And so it's just my mom at the house.
And she goes, you know, she's laying down in bed and she
starts hearing something. She said it sounded like
pictures. We're just being knocked off the
wall in the living room, like loud noises and crashing sounds
(36:38):
coming from the living room. She's the only one there, you
know, So of course you get the gun.
And she goes creeping down the hallway in the living room.
Nothing is out of place, not a single item.
There's nothing that explains all the noises that she was
hearing. So she kind of freaked out.
But, you know, she checks all over.
There's nobody there. The doors are locked, windows
are locked. So she's like, I don't know what
(37:00):
that was, but I'm just, I'm going to go back to bed.
So she goes and lays down. No sooner did she get in the bed
than it started again. So she gets up even quicker this
time. She's determined to catch what's
going on. The sounds are still happening
as she reaches into the kitchen,which you know hits a small
trailer. So in the kitchen you can see
the living room and you can kindof see my bedroom.
(37:21):
Nothing out of place, nothing going on.
Checks my room. No one in there.
No one, no one else is in the house.
Nothing to explain away what happened.
So she's. Like I, I.
Don't even know what to do aboutthis.
She's going to try to go. Back to bed one more time.
But before she goes in bed, she decides, well I'm going to use
the bathroom. So she goes into the bathroom,
closes the door, and as the doorshuts she starts hearing the
(37:42):
same sounds, even louder coming from her bedroom on the other
side of the wall of the bathroom.
This freaked her out so bad she spent the night in the floor of
the bathroom. If you know my mom, which
obviously you don't, but if you did, you would understand how
crazy that is. I mean, this woman was such a
(38:04):
skeptic. She would find ways to explain
away anything that happened. She would never give it any kind
of credence. But after that night, even she
flipped and had to admit that something strange was going on
at this place. It wasn't in the house.
It was the land. And about that black spot.
Touchback to that real quick. I don't know for certain.
(38:28):
But I did find out that the guy that was shot on the property
did die in the front yard near the road, which is where that
black spot. Was, I can't say that that's
where he died, but it's weird and it's definitely close to it
and I have no other explanation for it.
So there's that. And that's the story of my
(38:49):
extremely haunted childhood home.
Well, at least a few events thathappened there.
It's a very long story. But I said all that to say that
hauntings, they happen and I don't know what they are.
I can't say for a certain that it's there's some intelligence
to it. I know that I don't know what
the rules are. I don't know what happens on the
(39:11):
other side, but there are entities that are conscious,
that make decisions, that have feelings, that will communicate,
and then there are residual ones.
They're kind of like just stuck in a loop, it seems, and nothing
that you do really influences them.
They're just going to keep doingwhatever it is that they do.
I ran into both several times telling you from experience that
(39:36):
it is real. I don't understand it.
I don't purport to understand it, but it happens.
Now, if you've never experiencedit for yourself, I totally
understand being skeptic. I absolutely would be, had I not
lived through the experiences that I've lived through,
definitely would not think that it's real.
If you don't have something tangible and then you've got
(39:56):
science saying, you know, it's impossible, it's not real, we
can't prove it, blah, blah, blah.
You've got all the other skeptics in your head.
You've got, you know, you don't see the reality of it portrayed
from any point of authority. So it's very easy to dismiss,
you know, it's never happened tome.
It can't be real. But I'm telling you, there is
something out there beyond what we understand.
(40:19):
I've brushed up against it way more times than I would like to.
So it happens. So the haunting that happened in
Amherst very well may have been real.
It's very well documented. It's lived on as a very
prominent story and cited quite often as the best documented
case of paranormal and particularly poltergeist
(40:40):
activity in the world. So while I can't say what
Hubble's intentions were, and while I can't prove that Esther
wasn't faking it, I can't say that there is a possibility that
everything happened the way we were told.
It's equally likely that Hubble thought is an opportunity to
make some money and capitalize off of it.
(41:01):
How much or to what degree that biased his, you know, writing on
the subject, that's up for interpretation.
But the books in the Discord, ifyou want to read it, it starts
off with an affidavit. I signed and notarized affidavit
that everything that he wrote inthe book occurred the way that
he's testifying to it have happened.
(41:22):
That adds a little bit of credence to it at least.
It's definitely something worth considering.
So if you're interested, it's inthe Discord for you.
And that's pretty much all that I've got for you guys this
evening. I've got a really, really good
creepy 1 coming up for the crescendo of all of this that's
happening on Halloween night. I think that you're going to
(41:44):
like it. It hits a lot of those folklore,
urban legend kind of points thatseem to stay around.
You know, that hits US in that kind of familiar place and and
the most unnerving stories do. This is definitely along that
(42:04):
line. I think that you guys will
really enjoy it. It's one of my favorite, you
know, kind of creepypasta urban legend, more modern lore out
there. So I don't want to give you any
more hints though. Definitely don't want to give it
away before it's time, but look forward to that.
It's dropping on Halloween nightand yeah, I really appreciate
(42:24):
you guys listening. Thank you for listening to me
ramble through this story. So sleep tight out there.
Tuck those bed covers under yourfeet, as I still do to this day.
If you hear something, go bump in the night, maybe just ignore
it and I'll talk to you guys again real soon on the next
clandestine radio. Music.
(43:45):
None.
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