December 3, 2024 • 33 mins
Rodriquez "Rod" Leonard, a coach with extensive experience in K-12 education, shares valuable insights on building a positive and productive classroom culture.
He emphasizes the importance of getting to know students as individuals, using those insights to inform instruction, and fostering student achievement.
He encourages teachers to try one of his tips, starting with making a genuine effort to connect with their students. This can be accomplished through:
- Conversation: Engaging in meaningful dialogue.
- Inquiry: Asking questions to understand student perspectives and interests.
- Application: Using this knowledge to shape classroom activities and lessons.
Rod's episode provides practical, actionable advice for teachers looking to cultivate a supportive and successful learning environment.
The Southern Regional Education Board is a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization that works with states and schools to improve education at every level, from early childhood through doctoral education and the workforce.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back.
I'm Ashley Shaw and it's theweek after Thanksgiving.
We hope you all enjoyed yourmeals and got to see lots of
family this week.
I'm here with my co-host, danRock.
Hi, dan.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hey Ashley, how are you doing today?
Speaker 1 (00:15):
I am great.
Thanksgiving was wonderful.
How was yours?
Oh, it was delightful.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
It was delightful, my favorite holiday by far.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Oh good, it was delightful.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
It was delightful.
My favorite holiday by far, ohgood, definitely it's just the
best day.
You get family, food andfootball the three best things.
Okay, I mean what else can youask for?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I get cooking and cooking and cooking and that's
what I do, all of Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Well, that's too bad.
I don't do that, it's fine, Ilove to cook bad.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I don't do that.
It's fine.
I love to cook, so I'm happywith that.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, it's a great day, so what do you want to talk
about today?
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Okay, the week before Thanksgiving, shelly Gibson
came on and talked about how toencourage your students so that
we had this nice little lead-into Thanksgiving, just thinking
about how grateful we are forour students, and part of that
was the idea that we should kindof work to connect with our
students.
So I thought it might be niceto follow up Thanksgiving with a
(01:16):
little bit more aboutconnecting with our students.
Do you have somebody that canhelp me with that?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
our students.
Do you have somebody that canhelp me with that?
I do.
Rob Leonard is an instructionalcoach from Alabama and, as a
teacher and as a coach, heunderstands how to build culture
amongst his students and builda culture of honesty and
togetherness that actuallytranslates to better learning,
(01:48):
and I really think he has a lotthat he can help you with in
terms of building a culture oflearning and understanding into
your classroom.
So let's bring in Rod, I thinkhe'll really help.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
All right, well, I'm looking forward to meeting with
him and I'll talk to you afterthe episode.
See you there, hi, I'm lookingforward to meeting with him and
I'll talk to you after theepisode.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
See you there.
Hi, ron, how are you?
I am well.
Ashley, how are you?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
I am pretty good.
I am really thankful you'rehere today.
Thanksgiving was last week.
I'm in a thankful mood.
I'm very thankful for you, sothank you for coming on and
joining us today.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
All right, before we get started, would you tell us a
little bit about who you are?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Most certainly I am again.
You said my name is.
I'm Rodriguez Leonard.
I go by Rod a lot of times.
I am from a little small town inAlabama called Alexander City.
It is one of the most wonderfulplaces on earth and you are
just in a good place if you meetanyone from there.
(02:53):
However, I live in Birmingham,alabama, where I taught 16 years
in the Birmingham City SchoolSystem.
I taught grades six throughnine.
I taught grades six throughnine.
I taught middle school for 14of those years and high school
for two of those years andabsolutely loved every moment of
it.
I started in the middle of theyear when I first started and I
(03:17):
probably need to go back andreteach to those students.
However, they can charge it tomy head and not my heart,
because I was doing what Ithought was best at the time,
but through professional growthand learning, I turned out to be
a pretty okay educator.
So I taught English and then Iabsolutely loved it until I came
(03:40):
to SREB three years ago and ithas been life-changing.
So it's moments like this thatadd to my growth, although I'm
sharing knowledge, but I get tolearn from others as well.
So that's a little about meeducationally.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Well, I am also from Alabama, so it's always nice to
have a fellow Alabamian on theepisode, and so welcome.
And a couple of weeks ago we didan episode where we talked
about encouraging students andit was very encouraging for
everybody that listened.
I'm sure it was veryencouraging for me at least.
(04:20):
And one thing that I got out ofthere is that I would like to
be better at connecting with mystudents.
I want to make connections withthem, so I asked Dan to find me
somebody to help with that.
Are you up for the challenge?
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I am up for the challenge.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
All right?
Well, let's get started then.
Teach me about connecting withmy students.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Well, I think it's important Once I learn that the
power of instruction isharnessed and it is the
foundation in a classroom, andthat lends itself to building
relationships, positiverelationships with students,
positive relationships withstudents.
(05:04):
Dr James Comer said that nosignificant learning can occur
without a significantrelationship.
So there is an importance there.
I know we teach standards andwe we harpo growth and mastery,
but none of that, none of thosethings occur without a
significant relationship withstudents.
(05:25):
And so it was my experiencethat the better I knew or the
more I knew about my students,the better relationships we had
and the more successful theywere in my class.
And that was just it.
And on those days when it washard meaning the work was
rigorous and even if they werehaving a challenge that was
(05:46):
outside of my classroom therelationship that I fostered
with them helped them pressthrough, whatever they were
going through.
So a positive relationship withstudents, it makes Mary a heart
, so that's very key With yourissue.
I have some tips that I used.
(06:07):
Would you like to hear them?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
I would love to hear them.
I'm very excited to hear them.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Well, the first tip is, as teachers, we have to
remember that, no matter whatgrade level we taught or teach I
taught middle school for thelongest and I taught seventh
grade, so I didn't revert tobeing a seventh grader, but I
had to remember that there werea lot of things that I went
through in seventh gradedevelopmentally, socially, et
(06:33):
cetera that shaped me as aseventh grader.
So when I taught seventh grade,I like to say they were crazy
and I was crazy, but we made itwork.
Well, the first thing I did wasI listened to my students, and
when I say I listened to them,we have a lot of discussion.
It could have been aboutsomething we were learning.
(06:53):
I always tried to make sure myhook was.
I mean, it went out of thisworld, but it was enough to get
them thinking about theimportance of learning, and so
that's one way I builtrelationships by listening to
them, being empathetic as well.
They make a lot of mistakes.
So my room was a safe place andit was safe to make mistakes,
(07:15):
but I had to remember that I toosat in a seventh grade class at
some point and I made errors,and some of it was just age
appropriate, inappropriatebehavior in a sense, and so I
didn't.
I made sure that if I even if Iwas going to have to correct a
student, I listened first.
So that was the crux ofbuilding relationships with the
(07:39):
students and that was just thatbuilding that trust piece, in
building that active listeningand empathy.
I had a get to know you sheet.
It had their birthday, it hadtheir favorite candy, it had any
sports, that they were involvedin any extracurricular
activities.
I also had what does your namemean on there, because that's
(08:02):
important.
I made sure I learned how tosay their names or pronounce
them correctly.
That helped me to buildrelationships.
We spent time doing designchallenges.
We used to do them in facultymeetings and so I would do them
with my students and I could.
Again, I didn't have any.
I had some historical data asit related to how they performed
(08:23):
on the state assessment theprevious year, but they too.
I had not really looked at that, but I learned a lot about how
they work with each other fromthe design challenges.
So we would do the marshmallowchallenge with the spaghetti
noodles and I would put them ingroups and usually what's that?
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I know what that is.
What's the marshmallow?
Speaker 3 (08:45):
So the marshmallow challenge is where you give them
spaghetti sticks, a marshmallowlike the big one, you give them
a piece of tape to the lengththat you want it to be and a
string, and you give themdirections on this time they
have to make the talleststanding structure that will
hold the marshmallow.
(09:06):
And so they.
And again, they're only givenso many spaghetti sticks.
Sometimes I gave them three,sometimes I gave them seven, it
just depends.
And but I was able to learn alot from them.
Day two, just by watching howthey interact in groups with
(09:27):
people one they may have knownand not.
And then two, how do theyhandle?
I could see my leaders, I couldtell the ones who took charge,
I could tell the ones who kindof laid back, I could tell the
ones who gave up easily becauseno one was listening, that type
of thing.
And so after about easilybecause no one was listening,
that type of thing, and so afterabout 10 minutes I would stop
them and then I would go aroundwith the ruler.
(09:50):
Many times those towers did notstand.
They could not be taped to thesurface, so that was always a
challenge.
They wanted to tape.
No, you cannot tape the tower.
It has to be freestanding, andso they love that design, those
type of design challenges.
And again, anything we did infaculty meetings for team
(10:12):
building or building capacity,or One day we were in a meeting
and the principal told us totake out our falls, go to a
picture that brings you joy andyou had to turn to your neighbor
and tell why it brought you joy.
(10:33):
Well, I mean, the room justchanged because people were
pulling out pictures of theirspouses, significant others,
their children, all thosegrandchildren.
Really, he had to kind of stopit because it was people like to
talk about, especiallygrandparents, their
grandchildren.
So I did it with my studentsTake out your phones oh, they
(10:54):
love that because we always talkabout put them up.
So they actually were andpulled up pictures that meant
something.
It wasn't.
They took a pair of a pictureof a pair of tennis shoes or
outfit or something.
They pulled up pictures offamily or pictures of a trip
they went on, or when they got atrophy last year and whatever,
and so those things helped me tojust day one be on
(11:17):
relationships that we would do.
What brings you joy a lot oftimes just at the beginning of
class as a way to kind of settlethe day or kind of move before
we move into academics.
Hey, this is what's going on,what brings us joy, especially
when it's something going onthat they may be despondent
about.
Same thing can be done with theboard we had, like students
(11:40):
were very active outside ofschool.
So if they brought me a pictureor told me their basketball
team won a championship or theywere on a soccer team or they
had a recital, I would ask themto give me a picture which their
parents had and I would put itup on a board.
Those type of things Level up.
That was a strategy that weused where we just kind of
(12:03):
checked the levels.
That was a strategy that weused where we just kind of check
the levels.
Some of the schools I taught inwhatever happened on the weekend
had a residual in the classroomand so that piece.
We couldn't start with standardeight in the ELA on Monday when
Jason's brother was tragicallyshot while walking home and
(12:25):
people in the community knowthat, so knew that.
So we had to check our levels.
We had to, and it wasn't alwaystragic, it could have been oh,
we're just tired.
I worked my students, I workedthem.
So we just kind of leveled upsometime just to check when you
get ready.
When I was growing up, a littleboy on a trip or going
somewhere 30 miles or more fromhome, the oil was checked before
(12:47):
we left.
And so that piece, that justleveling up.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
And an air one team.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yes, yeah.
So we have to level up to dothat.
Then the classroom meetingreally was my favorite, and
there's two.
They will say, mr Leonard, wegot to have a classroom meeting
and I'm like, why?
Oh, that is that test you gaveus yesterday and I will get
tickled and we would have ameeting about it.
So those type of strategieshelp to build relationships and
(13:16):
that's from.
If you've never taught childrento, you, are 30 years in and
have lost your wind and arestill here after 30 years
teaching.
Those things will truly helpmake a difference in building
relationships.
We're not saying that youchildren have to like you as it
relates to friends, but whatthey understand is they respect
(13:39):
you.
So building these relationshipswith students helps you
strengthen and build, Becausesometimes some students, to be
honest, leave home.
Nobody said good morning tothem, no one has said anything
positive to them.
Everything has been.
You need to do this.
And then they get here and getout of school and get to the
right side.
(13:59):
Take that call no.
That's not how you buildrelationships.
Students people they respect,they will do anything.
Students people they respect.
They will do anything, from thetoughest football player to the
most unassuming student who youmay overlook, they will rise to
the occasion no matter theiracademic level.
(14:21):
I know this, that's something Istand on.
We get IEPs and we look overthem and we follow those
accommodations and modifications.
But a lot of times if you havea good relationship with
students, all together, those,no matter the learning level
they want to rise.
They may be in the seventhgrade and they're on a fifth
(14:43):
grade level or third grade level, but they're going to give you
some growth by May because ofthe relationships that you have
vested in to impact instruction.
Standing on that, I'll say thaton top of the highest mountain,
that is very key and givesdividends in the classroom, no
(15:04):
matter the level.
If you have a positiverelationship with students, they
rise to the occasion every timebecause that respect is there
and you don't have to spend alot of time trying to.
I didn't have to become arapper to trip them, so those
type of things help me to buildrelationships with them from day
(15:24):
one and from the onset and Ikind of caveated it with the
around the listening piece andwhen I worked with teachers that
was the same thing.
You have to listen and build arelationships.
Everybody at some point has hada relationship, whether it was a
love interest or friendship,but the way, and even kinship,
(15:46):
you still have to get to knowpeople, and so the way we do
that is by talking and listening, and so that's very, very again
to impacting instruction from a, I hate to say, non-academic,
but from a place where studentswill really see, oh, my teacher
cares, or and is real in thesense that, oh, miss Ashley
(16:08):
knows that I enjoy doingprojects, so every time she
gives an assessment, they havethe option to do a project
versus taking a test, and so thestandards are still mastered.
But you know little, johnny ismore prone to do the assessment
because he has an option.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
I love that.
All right, so we talked aboutdoing the design challenges.
Do you have anything else thatwe can try to connect with our
students?
Speaker 3 (16:39):
The key is for students to master.
Whatever it is you're teaching.
We're not trying to get them tobe our friends.
When I talk about buildingrelationships, that's not when I
talk about buildingrelationships.
That's not what I'm talkingabout.
What I'm talking about is youare getting children to work to
their highest peak or potential.
We did a book study at one ofmy schools on a post-tidal
(17:03):
non-relationship buildingstrategies.
Well, teach up was the title ofthe book.
Diving, also named the MolaMason, and she deals a lot of
strategies but she gives ninethat anybody can just pick up.
And one that I really loved touse and a lot of districts are
(17:23):
going to this now when it comesto discipline was restorative
circles, and so restorativecircles was where we had a
conversation and that in orderto talk you have to listen.
So, going back to that pieceabout listening, and so some
things I addressed as a class orbehavior, and then there were
things that I addressedindividually, because the class
(17:44):
shouldn't have to suffer becauseof one person's behavior, and
so those restorative circlesallowed us to kind of reason
with empathy and see what wasthe problem.
So let's say we were going, wewere having problems in groups,
in transitioning.
Why are you all talking so much?
So, and that's simple.
(18:04):
But in seventh grade that is abig deal, and so we talked about
that, instead of me taking awayPE for everybody or having
silent lunch.
We talked about it and wedeveloped a plan that relates to
restorative circles.
Now, the discipline piece isthat a lot of districts are
going to is that it's notpunitive, in that, instead of
(18:28):
you being suspended for threedays or going to in-school
detention, you may go talk tothe counselor?
You may have a plan where nowthere are some things that
require the punitive issue.
So I'm not saying they faultand we said, oh, we just want to
talk about why you fought.
Would that take place?
(18:48):
However, there were someconsequences for their behavior,
and so those restorativecircles or the restorative
discipline worked.
But you had, like I had adiscipline plan and in that plan
like for instance, in one of myschools, we were the halls and
so I had and this was post-it,so they knew at all times my
(19:12):
classroom management system.
So the first piece of it wasthe positive.
What happens when hogs soar?
And I had, I thought things?
Verbal phrase was alwayshustling gift cards, candy from
my family, from my Sunday schoolclass from just wherever, and
so I had a treasure chest sothey could go to it.
(19:32):
Those students who like to readcould go to the library.
It might be some time on yourphone, et cetera, but that was
posted.
But also posted next to it waswhat happens when students do
not, when hogs do not soar, andso I had a plan.
First thing was again like I hada verbal praise, I had a verbal
warning, and so, ashley, I needyou to stop talking, please.
(19:54):
Thank you.
Now she kept talking.
The next thing was they signedthe book.
I had a simple notebook.
They simply just wrote downtheir name, the date and what's
the infraction.
Now there were those studentswho liked to be cute and they
would put down.
I don't know why Mr Leonard hadme sign this book.
He's crazy or whatever.
(20:15):
So that was fine.
But when it came down to parentconferences and my documentation
, I took that in.
My favorite is I had a studentwho signed the book and he said
my mama told me I didn't have todo X, y, z.
Well, when she had a conferencethat I couldn't wait and it was
in Israel I couldn't wait tostart to bring that up and show
her that.
(20:35):
And so after that well it turnsout they got a lot of warnings,
but after that they had arestorative meeting with me.
We didn't get any better.
They were sent to the counselor.
After the counselor they werethen rigged up and if we got to
(21:12):
a write-up I sent all of mydocumentation students to the
office and they came right back.
So when I sent a child theyknew this is this was serious.
But in turn I didn't have a lotof issues and it still helped
to foster relationships becausestudents want structure and they
help me with structure.
Students want structure andthey help me with structure.
And so I've had students comeback to me and say Mr Leonard,
I'm sorry that you had to writeme up, because they knew that I
(21:33):
had gone through all of thosesteps and so that built
relationships as well.
And again they, like ourparents, they love us.
And I would say to them ifnobody ever corrects you or gets
on to you, I would check mylove connection because it's
probably a little shaky orfaulty.
People don't get on to you.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
The bell you just heard means we are almost out of
time, so do you have somehomework for us today?
Speaker 3 (22:02):
So I do have some homework.
We as teachers love to givehomework.
It's just simple.
Just try one of the tips Startby getting to know your students
.
And how do you do that?
By one talking to them, askingquestions and use that in the
classroom.
Say, just get to know them.
(22:22):
And then not only when you getto know them put it into action
by using that knowledge to buildyour classroom and foster
instruction.
That will foster studentachievement.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
All right.
Well, thank you for that.
Everybody out there.
If you tried this, tell us howit went on social media.
And Rod, thank you so much forbeing here today.
It's been a pleasure hearingyour tips.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Well, thank you so much, Ashley.
I hope that you have a greatday and, as we prepare for the
holiday season, that it is fullof Christmas cheer for you and
your family.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Thank you, you too, bye, bye.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
All right, ashley, so that was very interesting.
What were some of your bigtakeaways?
What really resonated with youfrom that episode?
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Well, I think a big thing that resonated with me is
that to connect with students,you have to actually make the
time, which is obvious, but alsosomething that you forget.
So I think it was really goodto hear that about.
It's not just like, like, oh,I'm going to walk into the
classroom and my students aregoing to connect with me.
It's making the effort to learnabout them and their interest
(23:37):
and what they do, and making apoint of showing them that I
know about that it's almost likehe built that into his
structures right.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
He plans for how he's going to build relationships
and he creates lessons andactivities specifically for that
purpose it's not anafterthought.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
It's a priority yes, I thought that was really good
information and something thatisn't something that I think
about all the time thinkingabout it from a coaching
perspective.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
it is interesting because I felt like a lot of the
ideas he got he got fromcoaching leader.
Maybe it wasn't aninstructional coach, but it was
the leadership acting as a coach, because they were bringing the
teachers together to themarshmallow challenge right or
(24:29):
the marshmallow tower, and hewas bringing the teachers
together and asking them what'sgood and so the leadership of
that.
He was taking his cues from howto coach the students, from how
the leadership was sort ofcoaching Hare.
He was following their example.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yeah, I thought he was showing he was using the
leadership skills that he waswatching his leaders do and
using them to be the leader inthe classroom.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Right, right, and that's a lesson, I think, in and
of itself for anybody who's ina leadership position, which is
you set the example for what youwant teachers to do in your
classroom, in their classrooms.
By how you treat the teachersand you listen to them and you
give them voice and you providethem opportunities to connect
(25:32):
with each other during yourmeetings or your collaboration
time, then they will see thatand they will follow your
example.
It's less what you say to themand it's more what you do.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
I think what I hear you saying right now is that
it's important.
Just like it's important forteachers to connect with their
students, it's important forleaders to connect with their
Teachers.
It's important for coaches toconnect with the teachers.
Connections help everybody.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
And it's more than feeding them right.
It's more than notes in theirbox, right your and your faculty
meeting, your plc meetings,your one-on-one coaching
conversations, with the mindsetof we are all together in this.
(26:34):
We are all people with emotionsand pride and dignity and it's
important to treat each otherlike that and it's important to
give them opportunities to learnhow to work together.
You can't be, you can't justbecause you throw five adults in
(26:55):
a team and call it a plc, youcan't expect them to know how to
collaborate effectively.
Just like in Rod's case.
He didn't expect his studentsto know how to collaborate, so
he used instructional methodsand activities to teach them how
(27:18):
and to pull out the best sortof ways to work together and
then to teach that explicitly.
And a coach or a leader canfind those opportunities to do
that for the teachers, so theyknow how to work together.
And that's an important lifeskill that we assume teachers
(27:40):
come with and most of them do,but it's still something that
that people can grow in right.
I'll throw something else outthere that I noticed is you
notice he talked about at theend restorative practices, right
restorative teams, and this issomething that's taken a hold in
a lot of schools where, ratherthan just focusing on punishing
(28:05):
it, we focus on okay, you did,you know you beat up Johnny.
Johnny, you know what does?
What does Billy have to do torestore the your faith in him or
restore your dignity?
Well, how can he make thisright?
And having that conversation,and that's, you know, restore
your dignity, how can he makethis right?
(28:25):
And having that conversation,and that's a very specific
practice that's happening inschools.
It's interesting the idea ofwell, can this apply to adults?
And maybe not restorativepractice like in the classroom.
But the fact is that there'sdysfunctional teams and there's
(28:49):
schools out there where you havepeople who are not good team
players and they don't want to.
They don't want to collect thedata, they don't want to share
the data, they just want tocomplain about bill beating up
Johnny.
And how am I supposed to teachthe kids when they're doing that
?
And the rest of the team istrying to analyze the data and
(29:18):
focus on you know, the bigpicture of learning restorative
circle practice to your teamsand thinking about how can I
teach them norms and how tocommunicate respectfully and
safely.
And addressing a teacher, asRod said, who doesn't soar, what
(29:42):
do you do when you have ateacher in your group who's sort
of not just not soaring butbringing everybody else down.
And I think that is, as a coach, something we are tentative in
dealing with because it's human,it's adult feelings and we kind
of come to the you know,assuming everyone knows how to
(30:03):
treat each other right.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
But that's not always the case.
Well, one thing also to addkind of to what you said is you
talked about when one teacher'snot soaring, but one thing that
Rod said in his lesson was aboutwhen the whole class is having
an issue.
For example, he used seventhgraders talking too much in
class and, instead of holdingthem all from recess or
something, having them sitaround in a circle and be like
(30:29):
what's going on?
Why?
Why are you guys talking?
And I feel like you mentioned,when a group of teachers is
struggling with some issue, theschool's having an issue, and
there might be something theretoo that you can talk, you know,
with all the teachers likewhat's going on?
What do we think's happening?
You know, what do we think wecan do to fix it?
Speaker 2 (30:51):
one of the primary and most difficult skills of a
coach is courageousconversations, or fierce
conversations, and you know, scScott wrote a book called Fierce
Conversations and she talksabout getting down to the
mineral rights right, which islike getting down deep into what
(31:14):
is the core problem here, andthat's not easy to do because
you have to know how to berespectful and how to honor
people's feelings andperspectives but also help
people see the differentperspectives of other folks in
the team and, again, settingnorms and expectations for
(31:36):
ourselves and holding ourselvesto high standards, as we do the
kids.
So that's something that I hearRob doing with the students.
That he's obviously learned andI know he brings to his
coaching too, and I'd love tohear how he does that.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Well, thank you for these tips to our coaches out
there.
I think it's been really useful.
Hopefully they feel that waytoo, and thank you for coming
and being here, as always.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
It is my pleasure.
I can't wait to see you againnext week.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Next week will be a special episode, another special
episode where Dan and I willsit down and wrap up all the
things that we learned thissemester from our coaches.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
I don't know how we'll have time for that.
There's been so much.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
I know.
All right, we'll see you nextweek.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
All right, see you there, bye.
Welcome back.
I'm Ashley Shaw and it's theweek after Thanksgiving.
We hope you all enjoyed yourmeals and got to see lots of
family this week.
I'm here with my co-host, danRock.
Hi, dan.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hey Ashley, how are you doing today?
Speaker 1 (00:15):
I am great.
Thanksgiving was wonderful.
How was yours?
Oh, it was delightful.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
It was delightful, my favorite holiday by far.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Oh good, it was delightful.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
It was delightful.
My favorite holiday by far, ohgood, definitely it's just the
best day.
You get family, food andfootball the three best things.
Okay, I mean what else can youask for?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I get cooking and cooking and cooking and that's
what I do, all of Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Well, that's too bad.
I don't do that, it's fine, Ilove to cook bad.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I don't do that.
It's fine.
I love to cook, so I'm happywith that.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, it's a great day, so what do you want to talk
about today?
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Okay, the week before Thanksgiving, shelly Gibson
came on and talked about how toencourage your students so that
we had this nice little lead-into Thanksgiving, just thinking
about how grateful we are forour students, and part of that
was the idea that we should kindof work to connect with our
students.
So I thought it might be niceto follow up Thanksgiving with a
(01:16):
little bit more aboutconnecting with our students.
Do you have somebody that canhelp me with that?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
our students.
Do you have somebody that canhelp me with that?
I do.
Rob Leonard is an instructionalcoach from Alabama and, as a
teacher and as a coach, heunderstands how to build culture
amongst his students and builda culture of honesty and
togetherness that actuallytranslates to better learning,
(01:48):
and I really think he has a lotthat he can help you with in
terms of building a culture oflearning and understanding into
your classroom.
So let's bring in Rod, I thinkhe'll really help.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
All right, well, I'm looking forward to meeting with
him and I'll talk to you afterthe episode.
See you there, hi, I'm lookingforward to meeting with him and
I'll talk to you after theepisode.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
See you there.
Hi, ron, how are you?
I am well.
Ashley, how are you?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
I am pretty good.
I am really thankful you'rehere today.
Thanksgiving was last week.
I'm in a thankful mood.
I'm very thankful for you, sothank you for coming on and
joining us today.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
All right, before we get started, would you tell us a
little bit about who you are?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Most certainly I am again.
You said my name is.
I'm Rodriguez Leonard.
I go by Rod a lot of times.
I am from a little small town inAlabama called Alexander City.
It is one of the most wonderfulplaces on earth and you are
just in a good place if you meetanyone from there.
(02:53):
However, I live in Birmingham,alabama, where I taught 16 years
in the Birmingham City SchoolSystem.
I taught grades six throughnine.
I taught grades six throughnine.
I taught middle school for 14of those years and high school
for two of those years andabsolutely loved every moment of
it.
I started in the middle of theyear when I first started and I
(03:17):
probably need to go back andreteach to those students.
However, they can charge it tomy head and not my heart,
because I was doing what Ithought was best at the time,
but through professional growthand learning, I turned out to be
a pretty okay educator.
So I taught English and then Iabsolutely loved it until I came
(03:40):
to SREB three years ago and ithas been life-changing.
So it's moments like this thatadd to my growth, although I'm
sharing knowledge, but I get tolearn from others as well.
So that's a little about meeducationally.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Well, I am also from Alabama, so it's always nice to
have a fellow Alabamian on theepisode, and so welcome.
And a couple of weeks ago we didan episode where we talked
about encouraging students andit was very encouraging for
everybody that listened.
I'm sure it was veryencouraging for me at least.
(04:20):
And one thing that I got out ofthere is that I would like to
be better at connecting with mystudents.
I want to make connections withthem, so I asked Dan to find me
somebody to help with that.
Are you up for the challenge?
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I am up for the challenge.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
All right?
Well, let's get started then.
Teach me about connecting withmy students.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Well, I think it's important Once I learn that the
power of instruction isharnessed and it is the
foundation in a classroom, andthat lends itself to building
relationships, positiverelationships with students,
positive relationships withstudents.
(05:04):
Dr James Comer said that nosignificant learning can occur
without a significantrelationship.
So there is an importance there.
I know we teach standards andwe we harpo growth and mastery,
but none of that, none of thosethings occur without a
significant relationship withstudents.
(05:25):
And so it was my experiencethat the better I knew or the
more I knew about my students,the better relationships we had
and the more successful theywere in my class.
And that was just it.
And on those days when it washard meaning the work was
rigorous and even if they werehaving a challenge that was
(05:46):
outside of my classroom therelationship that I fostered
with them helped them pressthrough, whatever they were
going through.
So a positive relationship withstudents, it makes Mary a heart
, so that's very key With yourissue.
I have some tips that I used.
(06:07):
Would you like to hear them?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
I would love to hear them.
I'm very excited to hear them.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Well, the first tip is, as teachers, we have to
remember that, no matter whatgrade level we taught or teach I
taught middle school for thelongest and I taught seventh
grade, so I didn't revert tobeing a seventh grader, but I
had to remember that there werea lot of things that I went
through in seventh gradedevelopmentally, socially, et
(06:33):
cetera that shaped me as aseventh grader.
So when I taught seventh grade,I like to say they were crazy
and I was crazy, but we made itwork.
Well, the first thing I did wasI listened to my students, and
when I say I listened to them,we have a lot of discussion.
It could have been aboutsomething we were learning.
(06:53):
I always tried to make sure myhook was.
I mean, it went out of thisworld, but it was enough to get
them thinking about theimportance of learning, and so
that's one way I builtrelationships by listening to
them, being empathetic as well.
They make a lot of mistakes.
So my room was a safe place andit was safe to make mistakes,
(07:15):
but I had to remember that I toosat in a seventh grade class at
some point and I made errors,and some of it was just age
appropriate, inappropriatebehavior in a sense, and so I
didn't.
I made sure that if I even if Iwas going to have to correct a
student, I listened first.
So that was the crux ofbuilding relationships with the
(07:39):
students and that was just thatbuilding that trust piece, in
building that active listeningand empathy.
I had a get to know you sheet.
It had their birthday, it hadtheir favorite candy, it had any
sports, that they were involvedin any extracurricular
activities.
I also had what does your namemean on there, because that's
(08:02):
important.
I made sure I learned how tosay their names or pronounce
them correctly.
That helped me to buildrelationships.
We spent time doing designchallenges.
We used to do them in facultymeetings and so I would do them
with my students and I could.
Again, I didn't have any.
I had some historical data asit related to how they performed
(08:23):
on the state assessment theprevious year, but they too.
I had not really looked at that, but I learned a lot about how
they work with each other fromthe design challenges.
So we would do the marshmallowchallenge with the spaghetti
noodles and I would put them ingroups and usually what's that?
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I know what that is.
What's the marshmallow?
Speaker 3 (08:45):
So the marshmallow challenge is where you give them
spaghetti sticks, a marshmallowlike the big one, you give them
a piece of tape to the lengththat you want it to be and a
string, and you give themdirections on this time they
have to make the talleststanding structure that will
hold the marshmallow.
(09:06):
And so they.
And again, they're only givenso many spaghetti sticks.
Sometimes I gave them three,sometimes I gave them seven, it
just depends.
And but I was able to learn alot from them.
Day two, just by watching howthey interact in groups with
(09:27):
people one they may have knownand not.
And then two, how do theyhandle?
I could see my leaders, I couldtell the ones who took charge,
I could tell the ones who kindof laid back, I could tell the
ones who gave up easily becauseno one was listening, that type
of thing.
And so after about easilybecause no one was listening,
that type of thing, and so afterabout 10 minutes I would stop
them and then I would go aroundwith the ruler.
(09:50):
Many times those towers did notstand.
They could not be taped to thesurface, so that was always a
challenge.
They wanted to tape.
No, you cannot tape the tower.
It has to be freestanding, andso they love that design, those
type of design challenges.
And again, anything we did infaculty meetings for team
(10:12):
building or building capacity,or One day we were in a meeting
and the principal told us totake out our falls, go to a
picture that brings you joy andyou had to turn to your neighbor
and tell why it brought you joy.
(10:33):
Well, I mean, the room justchanged because people were
pulling out pictures of theirspouses, significant others,
their children, all thosegrandchildren.
Really, he had to kind of stopit because it was people like to
talk about, especiallygrandparents, their
grandchildren.
So I did it with my studentsTake out your phones oh, they
(10:54):
love that because we always talkabout put them up.
So they actually were andpulled up pictures that meant
something.
It wasn't.
They took a pair of a pictureof a pair of tennis shoes or
outfit or something.
They pulled up pictures offamily or pictures of a trip
they went on, or when they got atrophy last year and whatever,
and so those things helped me tojust day one be on
(11:17):
relationships that we would do.
What brings you joy a lot oftimes just at the beginning of
class as a way to kind of settlethe day or kind of move before
we move into academics.
Hey, this is what's going on,what brings us joy, especially
when it's something going onthat they may be despondent
about.
Same thing can be done with theboard we had, like students
(11:40):
were very active outside ofschool.
So if they brought me a pictureor told me their basketball
team won a championship or theywere on a soccer team or they
had a recital, I would ask themto give me a picture which their
parents had and I would put itup on a board.
Those type of things Level up.
That was a strategy that weused where we just kind of
(12:03):
checked the levels.
That was a strategy that weused where we just kind of check
the levels.
Some of the schools I taught inwhatever happened on the weekend
had a residual in the classroomand so that piece.
We couldn't start with standardeight in the ELA on Monday when
Jason's brother was tragicallyshot while walking home and
(12:25):
people in the community knowthat, so knew that.
So we had to check our levels.
We had to, and it wasn't alwaystragic, it could have been oh,
we're just tired.
I worked my students, I workedthem.
So we just kind of leveled upsometime just to check when you
get ready.
When I was growing up, a littleboy on a trip or going
somewhere 30 miles or more fromhome, the oil was checked before
(12:47):
we left.
And so that piece, that justleveling up.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
And an air one team.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yes, yeah.
So we have to level up to dothat.
Then the classroom meetingreally was my favorite, and
there's two.
They will say, mr Leonard, wegot to have a classroom meeting
and I'm like, why?
Oh, that is that test you gaveus yesterday and I will get
tickled and we would have ameeting about it.
So those type of strategieshelp to build relationships and
(13:16):
that's from.
If you've never taught childrento, you, are 30 years in and
have lost your wind and arestill here after 30 years
teaching.
Those things will truly helpmake a difference in building
relationships.
We're not saying that youchildren have to like you as it
relates to friends, but whatthey understand is they respect
(13:39):
you.
So building these relationshipswith students helps you
strengthen and build, Becausesometimes some students, to be
honest, leave home.
Nobody said good morning tothem, no one has said anything
positive to them.
Everything has been.
You need to do this.
And then they get here and getout of school and get to the
right side.
(13:59):
Take that call no.
That's not how you buildrelationships.
Students people they respect,they will do anything.
Students people they respect.
They will do anything, from thetoughest football player to the
most unassuming student who youmay overlook, they will rise to
the occasion no matter theiracademic level.
(14:21):
I know this, that's something Istand on.
We get IEPs and we look overthem and we follow those
accommodations and modifications.
But a lot of times if you havea good relationship with
students, all together, those,no matter the learning level
they want to rise.
They may be in the seventhgrade and they're on a fifth
(14:43):
grade level or third grade level, but they're going to give you
some growth by May because ofthe relationships that you have
vested in to impact instruction.
Standing on that, I'll say thaton top of the highest mountain,
that is very key and givesdividends in the classroom, no
(15:04):
matter the level.
If you have a positiverelationship with students, they
rise to the occasion every timebecause that respect is there
and you don't have to spend alot of time trying to.
I didn't have to become arapper to trip them, so those
type of things help me to buildrelationships with them from day
(15:24):
one and from the onset and Ikind of caveated it with the
around the listening piece andwhen I worked with teachers that
was the same thing.
You have to listen and build arelationships.
Everybody at some point has hada relationship, whether it was a
love interest or friendship,but the way, and even kinship,
(15:46):
you still have to get to knowpeople, and so the way we do
that is by talking and listening, and so that's very, very again
to impacting instruction from a, I hate to say, non-academic,
but from a place where studentswill really see, oh, my teacher
cares, or and is real in thesense that, oh, miss Ashley
(16:08):
knows that I enjoy doingprojects, so every time she
gives an assessment, they havethe option to do a project
versus taking a test, and so thestandards are still mastered.
But you know little, johnny ismore prone to do the assessment
because he has an option.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
I love that.
All right, so we talked aboutdoing the design challenges.
Do you have anything else thatwe can try to connect with our
students?
Speaker 3 (16:39):
The key is for students to master.
Whatever it is you're teaching.
We're not trying to get them tobe our friends.
When I talk about buildingrelationships, that's not when I
talk about buildingrelationships.
That's not what I'm talkingabout.
What I'm talking about is youare getting children to work to
their highest peak or potential.
We did a book study at one ofmy schools on a post-tidal
(17:03):
non-relationship buildingstrategies.
Well, teach up was the title ofthe book.
Diving, also named the MolaMason, and she deals a lot of
strategies but she gives ninethat anybody can just pick up.
And one that I really loved touse and a lot of districts are
(17:23):
going to this now when it comesto discipline was restorative
circles, and so restorativecircles was where we had a
conversation and that in orderto talk you have to listen.
So, going back to that pieceabout listening, and so some
things I addressed as a class orbehavior, and then there were
things that I addressedindividually, because the class
(17:44):
shouldn't have to suffer becauseof one person's behavior, and
so those restorative circlesallowed us to kind of reason
with empathy and see what wasthe problem.
So let's say we were going, wewere having problems in groups,
in transitioning.
Why are you all talking so much?
So, and that's simple.
(18:04):
But in seventh grade that is abig deal, and so we talked about
that, instead of me taking awayPE for everybody or having
silent lunch.
We talked about it and wedeveloped a plan that relates to
restorative circles.
Now, the discipline piece isthat a lot of districts are
going to is that it's notpunitive, in that, instead of
(18:28):
you being suspended for threedays or going to in-school
detention, you may go talk tothe counselor?
You may have a plan where nowthere are some things that
require the punitive issue.
So I'm not saying they faultand we said, oh, we just want to
talk about why you fought.
Would that take place?
(18:48):
However, there were someconsequences for their behavior,
and so those restorativecircles or the restorative
discipline worked.
But you had, like I had adiscipline plan and in that plan
like for instance, in one of myschools, we were the halls and
so I had and this was post-it,so they knew at all times my
(19:12):
classroom management system.
So the first piece of it wasthe positive.
What happens when hogs soar?
And I had, I thought things?
Verbal phrase was alwayshustling gift cards, candy from
my family, from my Sunday schoolclass from just wherever, and
so I had a treasure chest sothey could go to it.
(19:32):
Those students who like to readcould go to the library.
It might be some time on yourphone, et cetera, but that was
posted.
But also posted next to it waswhat happens when students do
not, when hogs do not soar, andso I had a plan.
First thing was again like I hada verbal praise, I had a verbal
warning, and so, ashley, I needyou to stop talking, please.
(19:54):
Thank you.
Now she kept talking.
The next thing was they signedthe book.
I had a simple notebook.
They simply just wrote downtheir name, the date and what's
the infraction.
Now there were those studentswho liked to be cute and they
would put down.
I don't know why Mr Leonard hadme sign this book.
He's crazy or whatever.
(20:15):
So that was fine.
But when it came down to parentconferences and my documentation
, I took that in.
My favorite is I had a studentwho signed the book and he said
my mama told me I didn't have todo X, y, z.
Well, when she had a conferencethat I couldn't wait and it was
in Israel I couldn't wait tostart to bring that up and show
her that.
(20:35):
And so after that well it turnsout they got a lot of warnings,
but after that they had arestorative meeting with me.
We didn't get any better.
They were sent to the counselor.
After the counselor they werethen rigged up and if we got to
(21:12):
a write-up I sent all of mydocumentation students to the
office and they came right back.
So when I sent a child theyknew this is this was serious.
But in turn I didn't have a lotof issues and it still helped
to foster relationships becausestudents want structure and they
help me with structure.
Students want structure andthey help me with structure.
And so I've had students comeback to me and say Mr Leonard,
I'm sorry that you had to writeme up, because they knew that I
(21:33):
had gone through all of thosesteps and so that built
relationships as well.
And again they, like ourparents, they love us.
And I would say to them ifnobody ever corrects you or gets
on to you, I would check mylove connection because it's
probably a little shaky orfaulty.
People don't get on to you.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
The bell you just heard means we are almost out of
time, so do you have somehomework for us today?
Speaker 3 (22:02):
So I do have some homework.
We as teachers love to givehomework.
It's just simple.
Just try one of the tips Startby getting to know your students
.
And how do you do that?
By one talking to them, askingquestions and use that in the
classroom.
Say, just get to know them.
(22:22):
And then not only when you getto know them put it into action
by using that knowledge to buildyour classroom and foster
instruction.
That will foster studentachievement.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
All right.
Well, thank you for that.
Everybody out there.
If you tried this, tell us howit went on social media.
And Rod, thank you so much forbeing here today.
It's been a pleasure hearingyour tips.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Well, thank you so much, Ashley.
I hope that you have a greatday and, as we prepare for the
holiday season, that it is fullof Christmas cheer for you and
your family.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Thank you, you too, bye, bye.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
All right, ashley, so that was very interesting.
What were some of your bigtakeaways?
What really resonated with youfrom that episode?
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Well, I think a big thing that resonated with me is
that to connect with students,you have to actually make the
time, which is obvious, but alsosomething that you forget.
So I think it was really goodto hear that about.
It's not just like, like, oh,I'm going to walk into the
classroom and my students aregoing to connect with me.
It's making the effort to learnabout them and their interest
(23:37):
and what they do, and making apoint of showing them that I
know about that it's almost likehe built that into his
structures right.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
He plans for how he's going to build relationships
and he creates lessons andactivities specifically for that
purpose it's not anafterthought.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
It's a priority yes, I thought that was really good
information and something thatisn't something that I think
about all the time thinkingabout it from a coaching
perspective.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
it is interesting because I felt like a lot of the
ideas he got he got fromcoaching leader.
Maybe it wasn't aninstructional coach, but it was
the leadership acting as a coach, because they were bringing the
teachers together to themarshmallow challenge right or
(24:29):
the marshmallow tower, and hewas bringing the teachers
together and asking them what'sgood and so the leadership of
that.
He was taking his cues from howto coach the students, from how
the leadership was sort ofcoaching Hare.
He was following their example.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yeah, I thought he was showing he was using the
leadership skills that he waswatching his leaders do and
using them to be the leader inthe classroom.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Right, right, and that's a lesson, I think, in and
of itself for anybody who's ina leadership position, which is
you set the example for what youwant teachers to do in your
classroom, in their classrooms.
By how you treat the teachersand you listen to them and you
give them voice and you providethem opportunities to connect
(25:32):
with each other during yourmeetings or your collaboration
time, then they will see thatand they will follow your
example.
It's less what you say to themand it's more what you do.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
I think what I hear you saying right now is that
it's important.
Just like it's important forteachers to connect with their
students, it's important forleaders to connect with their
Teachers.
It's important for coaches toconnect with the teachers.
Connections help everybody.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
And it's more than feeding them right.
It's more than notes in theirbox, right your and your faculty
meeting, your plc meetings,your one-on-one coaching
conversations, with the mindsetof we are all together in this.
(26:34):
We are all people with emotionsand pride and dignity and it's
important to treat each otherlike that and it's important to
give them opportunities to learnhow to work together.
You can't be, you can't justbecause you throw five adults in
(26:55):
a team and call it a plc, youcan't expect them to know how to
collaborate effectively.
Just like in Rod's case.
He didn't expect his studentsto know how to collaborate, so
he used instructional methodsand activities to teach them how
(27:18):
and to pull out the best sortof ways to work together and
then to teach that explicitly.
And a coach or a leader canfind those opportunities to do
that for the teachers, so theyknow how to work together.
And that's an important lifeskill that we assume teachers
(27:40):
come with and most of them do,but it's still something that
that people can grow in right.
I'll throw something else outthere that I noticed is you
notice he talked about at theend restorative practices, right
restorative teams, and this issomething that's taken a hold in
a lot of schools where, ratherthan just focusing on punishing
(28:05):
it, we focus on okay, you did,you know you beat up Johnny.
Johnny, you know what does?
What does Billy have to do torestore the your faith in him or
restore your dignity?
Well, how can he make thisright?
And having that conversation,and that's, you know, restore
your dignity, how can he makethis right?
(28:25):
And having that conversation,and that's a very specific
practice that's happening inschools.
It's interesting the idea ofwell, can this apply to adults?
And maybe not restorativepractice like in the classroom.
But the fact is that there'sdysfunctional teams and there's
(28:49):
schools out there where you havepeople who are not good team
players and they don't want to.
They don't want to collect thedata, they don't want to share
the data, they just want tocomplain about bill beating up
Johnny.
And how am I supposed to teachthe kids when they're doing that
?
And the rest of the team istrying to analyze the data and
(29:18):
focus on you know, the bigpicture of learning restorative
circle practice to your teamsand thinking about how can I
teach them norms and how tocommunicate respectfully and
safely.
And addressing a teacher, asRod said, who doesn't soar, what
(29:42):
do you do when you have ateacher in your group who's sort
of not just not soaring butbringing everybody else down.
And I think that is, as a coach, something we are tentative in
dealing with because it's human,it's adult feelings and we kind
of come to the you know,assuming everyone knows how to
(30:03):
treat each other right.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
But that's not always the case.
Well, one thing also to addkind of to what you said is you
talked about when one teacher'snot soaring, but one thing that
Rod said in his lesson was aboutwhen the whole class is having
an issue.
For example, he used seventhgraders talking too much in
class and, instead of holdingthem all from recess or
something, having them sitaround in a circle and be like
(30:29):
what's going on?
Why?
Why are you guys talking?
And I feel like you mentioned,when a group of teachers is
struggling with some issue, theschool's having an issue, and
there might be something theretoo that you can talk, you know,
with all the teachers likewhat's going on?
What do we think's happening?
You know, what do we think wecan do to fix it?
Speaker 2 (30:51):
one of the primary and most difficult skills of a
coach is courageousconversations, or fierce
conversations, and you know, scScott wrote a book called Fierce
Conversations and she talksabout getting down to the
mineral rights right, which islike getting down deep into what
(31:14):
is the core problem here, andthat's not easy to do because
you have to know how to berespectful and how to honor
people's feelings andperspectives but also help
people see the differentperspectives of other folks in
the team and, again, settingnorms and expectations for
(31:36):
ourselves and holding ourselvesto high standards, as we do the
kids.
So that's something that I hearRob doing with the students.
That he's obviously learned andI know he brings to his
coaching too, and I'd love tohear how he does that.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Well, thank you for these tips to our coaches out
there.
I think it's been really useful.
Hopefully they feel that waytoo, and thank you for coming
and being here, as always.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
It is my pleasure.
I can't wait to see you againnext week.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Next week will be a special episode, another special
episode where Dan and I willsit down and wrap up all the
things that we learned thissemester from our coaches.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
I don't know how we'll have time for that.
There's been so much.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
I know.
All right, we'll see you nextweek.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
All right, see you there, bye.
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