September 10, 2024 • 36 mins
MaryEllen Vogt talks to us about supporting reading development for multilingual learners, teamwork, and the power one can find in being well-informed. MaryEllen is known for her work in the areas of teacher professional learning, reading intervention, disciplinary literacy, and effective instruction for multilingual learners. She is the author or co-author of over 70 articles and chapters and 17 books about literacy instruction, and is co-developer and co-author of the book series on the Sheltered Instruction Observation Protocol or SIOP Model, an empirically validated, instructional framework for teaching multilingual learners. MaryEllen is a 2017 inductee into the Reading Hall of Fame. Dr. Vogt is Professor Emeritus at California State University, Long Beach.
Links mentioned in this episode:
literacyworldwide.org
https://eric.ed.gov/
To cite this episode:
Persohn, L. (Host). (2024, Sept 10). A conversation with MaryEllen Vogt (Season 5, No. 2) [Audio podcast episode]. In Classroom Caffeine Podcast series. https://www.classroomcaffeine.com/guests. DOI: 10.5240/311F-10C5-A88E-095A-2337-M
Connect with Classroom Caffeine at www.classroomcaffeine.com or on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lindsay Persohn (00:10):
Education research has a problem the work
of brilliant educationresearchers often doesn't reach
the practice of brilliantteachers.
Classroom Caffeine is here tohelp.
In each episode, I talk with atop education researcher or an
expert educator about what theyhave learned from years of
(00:32):
research and experiences.
In this episode, dr Mary EllenVogt talks to us about
supporting reading, developmentfor multilingual learners,
teamwork and the power one canfind in being well-informed.
Mary Ellen is known for herwork in the areas of teacher
(00:52):
professional learning, readingintervention, disciplinary
literacy and effectiveinstruction for multilingual
learners.
She is the author or co-authorof over 70 articles and chapters
and 17 books about literacyinstruction, and is a
co-developer and co-author ofthe book series on Sheltered
(01:12):
Instruction Observation Protocol, or SIOP model, an empirically
validated instructionalframework for teaching
multilingual learners.
Mary Ellen is a 2017 inducteeinto the Reading Hall of Fame.
Dr Vogt is Professor Emeritusat California State University,
long Beach.
(01:33):
For more information about ourguest, stay tuned to the end of
this episode.
So pour a cup of your favoritedrink and join me, your host,
lindsay Persaud, for ClassroomCaffeine Research to Energize
your Teaching Practice.
Mary Ellen, thank you forjoining me.
Welcome to the show.
MaryEllen Vogt (01:54):
Thank you so much.
It's a pleasure to be part ofthis.
Lindsay Persohn (01:57):
So, from your own experiences in education,
will you share with us one ortwo moments that inform your
thinking now?
MaryEllen Vogt (02:04):
This is a wonderful question and I've
really been lying awake at nightthinking about it because it's
such a good one and it lets you,as an educator, really think
back over all the years thatyou've been teaching and think
about what got me to the placethat I'm in right now.
So I'm going to share a coupleof experiences that out of over
53 years of teaching that weresignificant, but there are
(02:27):
really two there were so many,but there really are two that
stand out in terms of how theyimpacted my entire career as an
educator.
Now, the first one goes wayback to 1968, when I was a
student teacher at ColoradoState University.
As an English major, I knew Iwanted to become a high school
English teacher.
That I knew for sure, and thatdecision was due largely to a
(02:49):
phenomenal teacher that I hadduring my senior year in high
school in Ames, iowa.
Her name was Miss Mary McNally,and this teacher I had her,
luckily, for two of my coursesmy senior year American
Literature and World Literature.
She was the first teacher I'dever had in 12 years of
schooling who made me feel smart, because she thought I was a
(03:10):
good writer and that was a hugerealization to me that I really
could be a good writer.
But I digress Back to studentteaching.
I was assigned to anotherwonderful teacher as my master
teacher in student teaching andher teaching schedule that, I
assumed, was four periods ofjuniors in American literature,
right up my alley, and oneperiod of sophomores and juniors
(03:33):
who were in a class that waseuphemistically labeled
functional English.
You can imagine which studentswere assigned to the functional
English class, whatever thatmeans functional English.
But all the students in myclass were those who couldn't
handle the work in Americanliterature due to their poor
reading, writing and spellingskills.
(03:53):
Now, my master teacher was veryenthusiastic about the kids in
the American literature classesas well as the curriculum for
American literature, but not somuch was she interested about
the functional English kids andin contrast, I was very
surprised to discover that itwas the kids in that functional
English class that reallyfloated my boat.
(04:14):
They were hilarious.
They were masters at avoidinganything academic like reading
and writing.
Most were very smart, but theydidn't particularly want anybody
to know that and for the mostpart for them school was a drag.
Now there was no set curriculumfor functional English except
to get these kids to becomebetter readers and writers.
(04:34):
Now, as their young and oh sonaive teacher, I became
determined to figure out how tomotivate them and how to teach
them just during that onesemester of student teaching,
and teach them not what they hadto learn but really what they
wanted to learn, which wasdefinitely not prefixes or
suffixes or anything like that.
Nor were they interested inreading kind of dumbed down
(04:57):
articles that met their readinglevels but certainly not their
interest levels.
So I created my own curriculumof sorts that included how to
apply for jobs and how to keep ajob, how to present yourself
well, how to figure out whatjobs were available for high
school students, how to dointerviews and so forth.
I invited the HR man from alocal department store and a
(05:18):
woman who owned a localrestaurant to come to class and
not only talk to the kids aboutwhat these professionals looked
for in their employees, but theyalso did mock interviews.
Now, on the day that our guestsarrived, I was stunned to see
my students who sometimes Ihardly ever saw their heads for
the not only their hats, whichthey were allowed to wear in
class in my class, not anybodyelse's class, but I was young
(05:41):
with their hoodies I had a hardtime, sometimes even seeing much
of their faces, but this time,when these other folks were
there, they were dressed toimpress, which basically meant
that their shirts were tucked inand their tennis shoes
shoestrings were tied.
Now I share all of this becausethis group of kids with reading
and writing problems set me ona path that has been my life's
(06:01):
work.
After college, my husband, myyoung son yes, I was a very
young mother, which was not sounusual in those days and I
headed to California and weeventually lived in Modesto.
Now I had to take three moreEnglish classes to become
credentialed in California, so Idecided to pursue my master's
not surprisingly in reading,because I had not had one class
(06:22):
or any information during mybachelor's degree about how to
teach kids to read.
It was all about literature,american literature and world
literature and so forth and Iwanted to know how to teach kids
to read.
So I became a readingspecialist in a middle school,
teaching younger versions of mybeloved crazy group of high
school kids that I met during mystudent teaching.
(06:42):
Now I eventually earned aspecial ed certification, which
is a good combination forsomeone who builds a career
working with kids who struggleto read and write.
And now here we are, 55 yearslater and I am still teaching
kids how to read.
Currently I'm working withchildren who've been negatively
impacted by COVID.
I have a lot of fourth andfifth graders.
They're coming into our programfor help because of the COVID
(07:06):
pandemic in which, during thoseparticular years, in their
kindergarten and first grade,they were learning via Zoom or
not learning, you know, duringZoom.
So this very afternoon and acouple of hours I will be
teaching three of my kids inone-on-one lessons and I'm
teaching Monday, tuesday,wednesday, thursday of every
work and coordinating thisprogram where we have several
(07:28):
teachers who are working with me.
Now the second pivotalexperience I can share more
quickly, but it was every bit assignificant to my current
thinking and my current work.
As the first example.
For this one I'll go back tothe early 1980s when I was
working as a special educationresource specialist and a
reading specialist in a middleschool.
It happened to be at adifferent school than my first
(07:50):
middle school, grades seven andeight.
Now.
This was during the time periodin the early 1980s, following
the fall of Saigon and the endof the Vietnam War, there were
approximately 140,000 refugeesfrom South Vietnam and Cambodia
who were evacuated and resettledin the United States.
There were close to 120,000more who were rescued and
(08:13):
resettled following the war and200,000 more people were allowed
to enter the US on what wascalled parole status.
I mention these data becauseCentral California resettled
many, many, many of theserefugees.
One morning, shortly after thefinal bell rang, when I was
teaching in the middle school,our assistant principal came in.
(08:33):
I was pushing in, by the way,into a class, a math class.
Our assistant principal cameinto the class where I was
working with the other teacher.
He was teaching the course, Iwas working with my kids and she
called me out to the hall whereI was working with the other
teacher.
He was teaching the course andI was working with my kids and
she called me out to the hallwhere I met a tiny Cambodian
girl named Sukia.
She was obviously frightenedand I took her hand and I led
(08:54):
her to the classroom and I foundan empty desk toward the back
of the room where I was sitting.
Her eyes were so big and shewas so, so frightened looking
around at these bigger kids Kidswere so much bigger than she
was looking around trying tofigure out what was going on.
I soon discovered that Sokiaknew not one word of English and
(09:14):
I later learned that she'd hadno formal schooling, but she had
had some instruction by refugeeteachers in the refugee camp in
Thailand where her family hadfled from Cambodia.
She had spent several of heryears in this camp prior to her
family coming to CentralCalifornia.
So on this morning as theteacher began his math lessons,
(09:35):
sokia appeared very mystifiedabout the classroom, the teacher
, the kids and what we weredoing.
After about 10 minutes of theteacher teaching, we had an
unannounced fire drill.
I immediately looked at Sokia,who was now completely terrified
.
I grabbed her hand.
We got in line quickly with theother kids.
We marched out to the fieldbehind the school with all the
(09:56):
other kids and waited.
So Kia never let go of her tightgrip on my hand, nor did I let
go of my grip on her hand.
Then the bell rang, and it wasthat shrill, all-clear bell
which totally confused so Kia.
And when we marched back intothe school and we resumed the
math lesson, I've often wonderedwhat that child thought you
(10:18):
know about her first day in anAmerican school.
Is this what's going to happenand what in the world is going
on?
That was when I decided that Ihad to learn more about how to
teach children whose firstlanguage was not English,
because I was the special edteacher and I was a reading
specialist and the assumptionwas by all the teachers and the
(10:38):
administrators that I was theone who knew all about how to
teach these kids.
But in reality I knew nothing.
I knew I had to prepare myself.
So my experience with Sokia andthe many other multilingual
learners that I eventually hadin my classroom ultimately led
me to UC Berkeley to pursue mydoctorate in language and
(10:59):
literacy.
I was privileged to learn fromthe well-known researcher Dr
Lily Wong Fillmore, an expert insecond language acquisition, as
well as other experts there atCal.
My experience with Sokia alsoled eventually in the mid-1990s,
to my work with Dr JennaEchevarria at Long Beach State
(11:20):
and Dr Deborah Short, who wasthen at the Center for Applied
Linguistics, and ultimately tothe creation and research of the
SIOP model for teaching inEnglish academic content and
academic language tomultilingual learners, and now,
in part because of Sokia, theSIOP model is being implemented
in classrooms around the globe,is being implemented in
classrooms around the globe.
Lindsay Persohn (11:42):
So those are the two experiences I think that
really set me on my path ofteaching and learning for all
these many years.
What wonderful experiences youshare with us, mary Ellen, and
you certainly are a superbstoryteller.
I must say I so enjoyed hearingabout that and how it led to
(12:02):
the work that you've beenpursuing for several decades now
.
As you were describing thoseexperiences, I couldn't help but
think about how very relevantthey are to education today.
You gave us some historic timemarkers student teaching 53
years ago, the work you weredoing in 1968, and then in the
(12:23):
80s and I think that we arestill doing education based on
what we think kids need, ratherthan the things that they want
to learn and what might bedrivers in their own lives, what
could be engaging or relevantfor them.
That's one point that certainlysticks out in my mind, because I
think that we're just it's likewe're doing that harder now.
You know.
It's like if they don't get it,if they don't want to know, then
(12:45):
just keep you know, trying todrill it into their heads.
And I also think about all ofour refugee students that are
being served in schools acrossthe United States as well as in
so many other places, and, yeah,just what that experience must
be like, and you know, not onlyis it a foreign environment,
people you don't yet know, butthen to have those really
(13:09):
jarring experiences, like notjust fire drills now, but
certainly where I live we havetornado drills and of course now
we also have active shooterdrills in classrooms.
And so, yeah, you've got towonder what is that human
experience like to be in yourfirst day in a classroom and you
know just the signs and signalsand what that all means and how
(13:32):
really terrifying that might be.
I hope that in response to thisnext question, you will tell us
a bit more about the PSYOPmodel that you've developed, as
well as other work that you'vedone.
So, mary Ellen, what do youwant listeners to know about
your work?
MaryEllen Vogt (13:47):
Well, I will talk about the PSYOP model in a
few minutes.
But I think when I first sawthis question I was thinking I
mean, I just these are suchthoughtful questions in terms of
really looking back about mywork and how I've kind of gone
from being the readingspecialist and special ed
teacher and then moving into awhole new area for me, at least
at the time, was learning abouthow to teach these kids.
(14:09):
But because of the students inthe classroom that I had no idea
how to teach, so I thoughtabout it and here's a reply, and
then I'll tell you a little bitmore about the SIOP model when
I finish this part.
Throughout my career, whetheras a teacher or a reading
specialist, special edspecialist, a district resource
teacher, high school counseloror professor which all the
(14:29):
different labels are job titlesI've had I've been at my best
when I could work with a team offellow educators.
So that's part of this answerto this question is from my
experience in my work teamwork Ihate to use an overused little
expression, but teamwork reallydoes make the dream work.
And that was what I found afterall these years.
(14:52):
And let me give you someexamples All of the books I've
written 17 now counting.
All the revisions have beenco-authored, because I love
working with smart people andI've been blessed to do most of
my writing and research withreally smart women, including
the two I previously mentioned.
All of these co-authors havebeen women scholars.
(15:13):
In addition to Dr Shabaria andDr Short, or Jana and Debbie,
there are more like Dr MaureenMcLaughlin, with whom I
co-authored the first two booksthat I wrote, but also with whom
I worked in Estonia on theInternational Literacy
Association's program Readingand Writing for Critical
Thinking.
Together, maureen and I taught30 amazing Estonian women in the
(15:33):
three-year project, duringwhich we made eight trips to
Estonia.
We had about 70 volunteers.
This was through theInternational Reading
Association or now InternationalLiteracy Association, but we
eventually had 70 volunteers in28 former Soviet countries where
we went in in the early 1990sto teach teachers who had been
(15:54):
in very much of a recitation,you know, information in
information out, kind of mode ofteaching, and we brought in
things like cooperative learningand critical thinking and so
forth which had not been valuedprior to what we say the fall of
communism.
What the Estonians said was thechange was the change in terms
(16:15):
of their moving into freedom,but we were able to teach these
30 amazing teachers in thisthree-year project, and this
partnership with those teachersand with Maureen was an
extraordinary experience for me.
But I would say with them I'vealso co-authored a book with Dr
Vicki Briscoe from Vanderbilt.
(16:35):
I've learned so much from her.
When I was president of theInternational Literacy
Association, I also worked withan amazing team of educators and
I learned from each one of themas well, and the list goes on.
I kind of blew my whistle alittle bit earlier, but I was
thinking that this overusedsaying about teamwork teamwork
makes teamwork.
It is overused, but maybethat's because it's true.
(16:56):
It's absolutely true.
So as teachers, you know, Ithink we've learned as teachers
to be autonomous.
We go into our classrooms inthe morning and we come out at
the end of the day or after alunch break, if you're lucky
enough to get it and that didn'tchange when I went to the
university there's almost moreautonomy in higher education
than in the lower grades.
So my advice would be and whatI've learned is be a leader in
(17:20):
establishing a team with thereally smart people with whom
you work.
Not only is it more fun, butyou share the load with others
and, most important you reallydo learn from each other
together.
Years ago two brothers, davidand Roger Johnson, coined the
term and did the research oncooperative learning for kids.
But I also think thatcooperative learning is
(17:42):
necessary for teachers andadministrators because we get so
much more done when we areworking with a well-oiled team.
So that's my first answer tothe question.
My second answer concerns, thenwhat is the SIOP model?
The SIOP model came out of thisteam Dr Jana Chreria at Cal
(18:03):
State, long Beach, with me, andthen Debbie, who was on the East
Coast.
I had written an article thatwas published in the Reading
Teacher way back in 1991, inwhich I had created an
observation protocol right afterwe'd been in several years of
whole language and we moved tomore literature-based
instruction, but not reallywhole language, getting beyond
(18:25):
that a bit.
And it was difficult foradministrators, who had to go
into classrooms and doobservations and so forth, and
supervisors to really supportteachers and really know what to
look for in classrooms thatwere doing more holistic
teaching through real literature.
So I wrote this, I created thisobservation protocol and it was
published.
Jenna knew about that protocolor that article, and so she came
(18:48):
into my office and she said oneday, would you be?
And we were two differentdepartments.
She was in special education,bilingual special education, and
I was.
I was in teacher education andshe came in and said I know that
you wrote that or designed thatprotocol a few years ago.
Would you be interested in allin working on developing an
(19:10):
observation instrument forsheltered instruction?
Now, in those days, in the early90s, a sheltered instruction
was the term that was being usedall throughout the country and
it was for instructionespecially designed for working
with multilingual learners.
However, in Florida, if you askwhat children's instruction was
(19:31):
, you would get one definitionand one set of examples.
If you ask in Arizona, you'dget another, not only definition
but explanation of whatchildren's instruction is all
about.
And this would happen in all ofwhat we call the border states,
in New York and in Washington,and certainly in California,
where we are having increasingnumbers of kids coming in as
(19:53):
English learners, students whoare coming into classes that
were being taught in English,where the students, of course,
were second language learners ormultilingual learners.
And it was very interestingbecause all these definitions
were different and no one hadreally done that research work
to say well, if we even do thesethings that are being advocated
as sheltered instruction, doesit really make a difference?
(20:16):
So we three women startedtalking and started researching
and started working together onseeing if we could identify what
from research on a regulareducation, mainstream education,
on special education, in thefield of reading, in the field
of bilingual education DeborahShort came from her background.
Her doctorate was in secondlanguage acquisition.
(20:38):
I'm reading, jana is special ed, bilingual special ed.
We came from our own differentbackgrounds in terms of research
and we started investigatingall of them and seeing what are
the instructional features thatare most important for
multilingual learners to besuccessful in content classrooms
where the language ofinstruction is English is not
(20:58):
their language, their homelanguage is not their language,
their home language.
And once we were able to come upwith a list of these features,
then we had a seven-year grantthrough the Department of Ed to
really see if number one, wecould come up with a model
that's where you're calling itat that point a model.
And number two, if it made adifference, if we taught it to
teachers and if they couldimplement it.
(21:20):
And then number three, mostimportantly, does it positively
impact student achievement andlanguage learning?
So that's what we set out todiscover and the results after
that seven-year research studywas 30 instructional features
which, when teachers implementthem to a high degree in their
classroom, we foundstatistically significant
(21:41):
results on both academicmeasures and language measures.
The PSYOP now has been the same30 features but the PSYOP now
is being used really throughoutthe world in any classroom where
the language instructiondiffers from the student's home
language and these features haveheld up over time and has
(22:01):
ultimately been probably my mostsignificant work other than
teaching the kids that I'mteaching right now.
But that's what SIOP Model isall about.
And the sixth version of theMaking Content Comprehensible
for Multilingual Learners.
We changed the title fromEnglish Learners to Multilingual
Learners because the termEnglish Learners is becoming a
(22:22):
bit pejorative in some placesand multilingual learners who
wouldn't want to be multilinguallearners.
So the title of our book sixthedition is Making Content
Comprehensible for MultilingualLearners, the SIOP model.
So I hope that helps you.
Lindsay Persohn (22:36):
Yeah, that's super helpful, mary Ellen, and
it's out now.
MaryEllen Vogt (22:41):
Yes, okay, it is available now.
It came out last about April.
Lindsay Persohn (22:45):
Okay, fantastic .
So if listeners are interestedin learning more about those 30
instructional features and howthey might implement them in
their own classrooms, they cancertainly take a look at that
book.
MaryEllen Vogt (22:57):
And I need to tell you, if you're not familiar
with SIOP, it's not all aboutthrowing out everything that
you're already doing.
We didn't reinvent teaching.
What we did was takeinstructional features that had
a research background.
Each one of those 30 have aresearch background.
They're housed within eightcomponents and I can quickly
mention the eight components arelesson preparation, building
(23:17):
background, comprehensible inputstrategies and it's not like
instructional strategies, it'sreally metacognitive strategies,
thinking strategies, helpingkids to think, use their heads
and learn how to be criticalthinkers in terms of learning
content and reading content.
And then it's interactionhaving a lot of interaction in
(23:40):
the classroom, practice andapplication.
Multilingual learners needpractice and application.
Multilingual learners needpractice and application right
after they learn something, andwe've discovered so all students
.
You know it's very helpful forall students.
Seven is lesson delivery, andthe lesson delivery is kind of
the opposite side of the coinfrom lesson preparation.
We've all created wonderfullesson plans and then at the
point we go in and try to teachto that lesson plan, we go,
(24:01):
whoops, that didn't work.
So we want to make sure thatthe lesson delivery is really
supporting those multilinguallearners and other students.
And then the final, the numbereight of the eight components is
review and assessment.
So it's not all new stuff, it'sthings that are all familiar.
But what's important in SIOP isthe level of implementation
(24:22):
that we're consistently level ofconsistency in using these
features in your classroom.
Lindsay Persohn (24:28):
And it actually makes me think, Mary Ellen,
that rather than, as you said,it's not wheel reinvention, but
I think it could be used as away to refocus our teaching in
some ways, because I do feellike certainly over the last
several years, maybe over thelast couple of decades,
teachers' attention and focushas been pulled in so many
different directions that I findit so helpful when I identify a
(24:52):
model that brings me back tothe things that matter most and
help me to really consider howto design instruction
thoughtfully and intentionally.
MaryEllen Vogt (25:00):
And that is the purpose of it.
It's an instructional frameworkfor any academic area.
Yeah, that's super helpful.
Lindsay Persohn (25:07):
Thank you.
So, mary Ellen, given thechallenges of today's
educational climate, whatmessage do you want teachers to
hear?
MaryEllen Vogt (25:14):
Well, when I first read this question,
Lindsay, I sighed heavily and myhusband even called from the
other room and said that was aheavy sigh.
Are you okay?
And I responded I'm okay.
But in reality, I'm really notokay with all that's happening
today in the field of readinginstruction, especially.
So here's what I think it'simportant to hear with all the
(25:34):
phonics, frenzy and dyslexiadilemmas that are being battered
around online in the press andthat have become so politicized
and I hope this resonatesbecause it's so important we
need to stick with the research.
The science of reading is realand it has been real for a
minimum of 40 years and, as DrClaude Goldenberg has pointed
(25:57):
out, for as long as 200 yearsthere's been a science of
reading, but unfortunately andnot surprisingly, I suppose,
given our current politicalupheaval people are selecting
some reading research studies,while disregarding other
scientific research completely,to either sell products or for
(26:18):
their own personal perspectives.
So, as teachers, we need to beable to cut through all the
noise and all the sales pitchesand actually read the research
for ourselves.
In the September of 2020 and Mayof 2021, the International
Literacy Association published50 peer-reviewed articles in two
(26:39):
reading research quarterlyjournals that are online
journals, by the way, that Ibelieve are must-read
opportunities must-readopportunities for all educators.
These articles are written forall educators in language, not
just research.
It's not just written forresearchers written for all
educators in language that weall understand.
(27:02):
With so many articles and 50 isa big number you can pick and
choose what you want to read,but don't pick only those
articles that you think you'regoing to agree with.
Right, and that's what's sowonderful about these articles
and how they selected theresearchers who are going to
write them.
So let me give you an example.
(27:22):
There's a fascinating review ofthe research on teaching phonics
, and here's the citation.
It's by Linnea Airy, e-h-r-i,and this was in the September
2020.
And it's called the Science ofLearning to Read Words A Case
for Systematic PhonicsInstruction Reading Research
Quarterly, volume 55, and soforth, and this is available
(27:45):
that you can read yourself.
So there's that piece Very,very important.
Linnea Ehri has spent yearsworking with phonics research.
Now, in that very same journal,there is another review of the
research on teaching kids to usecontext, and it's by Donna
Scanlon and KL Anderson, andthis came out also in 2020.
(28:06):
And the article is titled UsingContext as an Assist in Word,
Solving the Contributions of 25Years of Research on the
Interactive Strategies Report,and it's all in that very same
journal, so that, rather thanwringing our hands and throwing
in the towel and gettingfrustrated, get your team
together, that team that youwork with, and arm yourself with
(28:27):
research, because nothing feelsbetter than knowing decisively
what you're talking about.
And I think that's part of theproblem is, a lot of people are
talking about, you know, thescience of reading and talking
about how reading should betaught and all the things that
are happening in some statesthat are very worrisome and
bothersome, I think, to a lot ofeducators.
But we need to arm ourselvesand we need to know decisively
(28:49):
what we are talking about.
And, by the way, if you haven'tchecked out the International
Literacy Association's websiteit's literacyworldwideorg,
wwwliteracyworldwideorg Do so.
Become a member so that you canaccess all the resources that
are on there.
The resources that are on there, and there are some things also
(29:10):
available for non-members.
But become a member if youreally want to get into this
research and become aspokesperson who really knows
what you're talking about.
Now, just this morning, I was onthe ILA website because I
wanted to send the parents ofone of my new students the ILA
position statement on dyslexia.
These parents are so confusedbecause the district where I'm
(29:35):
living right now they're doingassessments that are suggesting
that these kids are dyslexic,when in fact, these kids are
lagging.
They're not dyslexic, but theyare lagging in large part
because of the COVID pandemic.
I wanted my students' parentsto be able to read the ILA
position statement on dyslexiaso they could better understand
(29:56):
the topic and what this allmeans.
So the message I want you toall hear, I think, is be
informed, read the research andaccess research-supported
resources for parents, but alsofor your colleagues, and do all
of that as part of a team.
Lindsay Persohn (30:12):
Yeah, mary Ellen, that's such an important
message, I think, and I do thinkthat the messaging right now
can seem so overwhelming.
And so, yeah, I greatlyappreciate you highlighting
these resources.
We will link to anything we canon your guest page for
listeners as well.
Certainly, we can link to ILA'swebsite and if those articles
you mentioned are available, wewill link to those as well.
Certainly, we can link to ILA'swebsite and if those articles
(30:32):
you mentioned are available, wewill link to those as well,
because you're right, I thinkwhenever we are better informed,
we feel better prepared to havethe conversations and also
better prepared to defend goodinstruction, when that's what
we're doing and it may not beexactly what our district or our
school is calling for it's hardtimes and I totally understand
(30:54):
it.
MaryEllen Vogt (30:54):
I mean I see this every day with parents who
are coming into our center.
I mean I started the centerbecause I was so worried about
kids trying to learn to readonline.
I was retired and having funwith my singing and my acting
and doing all kinds of otherthings and I thought, wait a
minute, I have to do something.
I've got to step up to thethings and I thought, wait a
minute, I have to do something.
I've got to step up to theplate here and see if we can
(31:16):
create something that's going tobe helpful to parents.
(31:43):
We're now getting teachers andsome administrators who are
referring kids to us, becausewhat we're doing is just
assessing students, seeing whatthey need and then teaching them
, and I think, as teachers rightnow we're dragged in so many
different directions thatkeeping that laser focus on.
I'm a teacher.
My job is to know what thesekids need, to assess them, to
arm myself with the informationI need to teach them effectively
and then to teach, and I hopethat these resources and this
(32:08):
message helps you feel that wedo have power, in that we can be
well-informed.
Lindsay Persohn (32:16):
Absolutely, and sometimes I think that it is
that power that can help us tofeel a little bit resettled into
our careers, because I do thinkthat there is so much tension
around education right now thatit can be really hard to
navigate and to keep focused oninstructing students.
So, mary Ellen, I thank you somuch for your time today.
MaryEllen Vogt (32:37):
I've really enjoyed talking with you and I
thank you for your contributionsto the world of education Well,
thank you, lindsay, and I wantto thank you for having these
very important opportunities forteachers to come together.
Thank you, and administratorsand researchers.
Thank you, and administratorsand researchers, thank you.
Lindsay Persohn (32:54):
Dr Mary Ellen Vogt is known for her work in
the areas of teacherprofessional learning, reading
intervention, disciplinaryliteracy and effective
instruction for multilinguallearners.
She's the author or co-authorof over 70 articles and chapters
and 17 books about literacyinstruction.
She's a co-developer andco-author of the book series on
(33:15):
the Sheltered InstructionObservation Protocol, or SIOP
model, an empirically validatedinstructional framework for
teaching multilingual learners.
In addition to her books, herwork can be found in venues like
the Reading Teacher and ReadingToday, as well as free public
sites like ericorg that'sE-R-I-C dot O-R-G.
(33:39):
Dr Vogt is Director and LeadReading Specialist for the
Not-for-Profit LiteracyIntervention and Enrichment
Program targeting children andteens who are experiencing
reading, writing and spellingdifficulties.
Dr Vogt has providedprofessional development
throughout the United States andin several other countries.
She served as a visitingscholar at the University of
(34:03):
Cologne, germany.
She is a member of California'sReading Hall of Fame, is a
recipient of the CSULB'sDistinguished Faculty Teaching
Award and was president of theCalifornia Reading Association
and the International LiteracyAssociation.
In 2017, dr Vogt was inductedinto the Reading Hall of Fame,
(34:24):
an international organization ofliteracy researchers and
scholars.
She also performs with the PopsChorale and Orchestra, as well
as her local community theater.
Dr Vogt holds a doctorate inlanguage and literacy from the
University of California,berkeley and is professor
emeritus at California StateUniversity, long Beach.
(34:47):
In her episode, she specificallymentions the ILA website, which
can be found at www.
literacyworldwideorg.
That's www.
literacyworldwide.
org.
(35:30):
For the good of all students,classroom Caffeine aims to
energize education, research andpractice.
If this show gives you thingsto think about, help us spread
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Talk to your colleagues andeducator friends about what you
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You can support the show bysubscribing, liking and
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(35:54):
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(36:17):
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Special thanks to the ClassroomCaffeine team Leah Berger,
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As always, I raise my mug toyou teachers, thanks for joining
(36:37):
me.
Education research has a problem the work
of brilliant educationresearchers often doesn't reach
the practice of brilliantteachers.
Classroom Caffeine is here tohelp.
In each episode, I talk with atop education researcher or an
expert educator about what theyhave learned from years of
(00:32):
research and experiences.
In this episode, dr Mary EllenVogt talks to us about
supporting reading, developmentfor multilingual learners,
teamwork and the power one canfind in being well-informed.
Mary Ellen is known for herwork in the areas of teacher
(00:52):
professional learning, readingintervention, disciplinary
literacy and effectiveinstruction for multilingual
learners.
She is the author or co-authorof over 70 articles and chapters
and 17 books about literacyinstruction, and is a
co-developer and co-author ofthe book series on Sheltered
(01:12):
Instruction Observation Protocol, or SIOP model, an empirically
validated instructionalframework for teaching
multilingual learners.
Mary Ellen is a 2017 inducteeinto the Reading Hall of Fame.
Dr Vogt is Professor Emeritusat California State University,
long Beach.
(01:33):
For more information about ourguest, stay tuned to the end of
this episode.
So pour a cup of your favoritedrink and join me, your host,
lindsay Persaud, for ClassroomCaffeine Research to Energize
your Teaching Practice.
Mary Ellen, thank you forjoining me.
Welcome to the show.
MaryEllen Vogt (01:54):
Thank you so much.
It's a pleasure to be part ofthis.
Lindsay Persohn (01:57):
So, from your own experiences in education,
will you share with us one ortwo moments that inform your
thinking now?
MaryEllen Vogt (02:04):
This is a wonderful question and I've
really been lying awake at nightthinking about it because it's
such a good one and it lets you,as an educator, really think
back over all the years thatyou've been teaching and think
about what got me to the placethat I'm in right now.
So I'm going to share a coupleof experiences that out of over
53 years of teaching that weresignificant, but there are
(02:27):
really two there were so many,but there really are two that
stand out in terms of how theyimpacted my entire career as an
educator.
Now, the first one goes wayback to 1968, when I was a
student teacher at ColoradoState University.
As an English major, I knew Iwanted to become a high school
English teacher.
That I knew for sure, and thatdecision was due largely to a
(02:49):
phenomenal teacher that I hadduring my senior year in high
school in Ames, iowa.
Her name was Miss Mary McNally,and this teacher I had her,
luckily, for two of my coursesmy senior year American
Literature and World Literature.
She was the first teacher I'dever had in 12 years of
schooling who made me feel smart, because she thought I was a
(03:10):
good writer and that was a hugerealization to me that I really
could be a good writer.
But I digress Back to studentteaching.
I was assigned to anotherwonderful teacher as my master
teacher in student teaching andher teaching schedule that, I
assumed, was four periods ofjuniors in American literature,
right up my alley, and oneperiod of sophomores and juniors
(03:33):
who were in a class that waseuphemistically labeled
functional English.
You can imagine which studentswere assigned to the functional
English class, whatever thatmeans functional English.
But all the students in myclass were those who couldn't
handle the work in Americanliterature due to their poor
reading, writing and spellingskills.
(03:53):
Now, my master teacher was veryenthusiastic about the kids in
the American literature classesas well as the curriculum for
American literature, but not somuch was she interested about
the functional English kids andin contrast, I was very
surprised to discover that itwas the kids in that functional
English class that reallyfloated my boat.
(04:14):
They were hilarious.
They were masters at avoidinganything academic like reading
and writing.
Most were very smart, but theydidn't particularly want anybody
to know that and for the mostpart for them school was a drag.
Now there was no set curriculumfor functional English except
to get these kids to becomebetter readers and writers.
(04:34):
Now, as their young and oh sonaive teacher, I became
determined to figure out how tomotivate them and how to teach
them just during that onesemester of student teaching,
and teach them not what they hadto learn but really what they
wanted to learn, which wasdefinitely not prefixes or
suffixes or anything like that.
Nor were they interested inreading kind of dumbed down
(04:57):
articles that met their readinglevels but certainly not their
interest levels.
So I created my own curriculumof sorts that included how to
apply for jobs and how to keep ajob, how to present yourself
well, how to figure out whatjobs were available for high
school students, how to dointerviews and so forth.
I invited the HR man from alocal department store and a
(05:18):
woman who owned a localrestaurant to come to class and
not only talk to the kids aboutwhat these professionals looked
for in their employees, but theyalso did mock interviews.
Now, on the day that our guestsarrived, I was stunned to see
my students who sometimes Ihardly ever saw their heads for
the not only their hats, whichthey were allowed to wear in
class in my class, not anybodyelse's class, but I was young
(05:41):
with their hoodies I had a hardtime, sometimes even seeing much
of their faces, but this time,when these other folks were
there, they were dressed toimpress, which basically meant
that their shirts were tucked inand their tennis shoes
shoestrings were tied.
Now I share all of this becausethis group of kids with reading
and writing problems set me ona path that has been my life's
(06:01):
work.
After college, my husband, myyoung son yes, I was a very
young mother, which was not sounusual in those days and I
headed to California and weeventually lived in Modesto.
Now I had to take three moreEnglish classes to become
credentialed in California, so Idecided to pursue my master's
not surprisingly in reading,because I had not had one class
(06:22):
or any information during mybachelor's degree about how to
teach kids to read.
It was all about literature,american literature and world
literature and so forth and Iwanted to know how to teach kids
to read.
So I became a readingspecialist in a middle school,
teaching younger versions of mybeloved crazy group of high
school kids that I met during mystudent teaching.
(06:42):
Now I eventually earned aspecial ed certification, which
is a good combination forsomeone who builds a career
working with kids who struggleto read and write.
And now here we are, 55 yearslater and I am still teaching
kids how to read.
Currently I'm working withchildren who've been negatively
impacted by COVID.
I have a lot of fourth andfifth graders.
They're coming into our programfor help because of the COVID
(07:06):
pandemic in which, during thoseparticular years, in their
kindergarten and first grade,they were learning via Zoom or
not learning, you know, duringZoom.
So this very afternoon and acouple of hours I will be
teaching three of my kids inone-on-one lessons and I'm
teaching Monday, tuesday,wednesday, thursday of every
work and coordinating thisprogram where we have several
(07:28):
teachers who are working with me.
Now the second pivotalexperience I can share more
quickly, but it was every bit assignificant to my current
thinking and my current work.
As the first example.
For this one I'll go back tothe early 1980s when I was
working as a special educationresource specialist and a
reading specialist in a middleschool.
It happened to be at adifferent school than my first
(07:50):
middle school, grades seven andeight.
Now.
This was during the time periodin the early 1980s, following
the fall of Saigon and the endof the Vietnam War, there were
approximately 140,000 refugeesfrom South Vietnam and Cambodia
who were evacuated and resettledin the United States.
There were close to 120,000more who were rescued and
(08:13):
resettled following the war and200,000 more people were allowed
to enter the US on what wascalled parole status.
I mention these data becauseCentral California resettled
many, many, many of theserefugees.
One morning, shortly after thefinal bell rang, when I was
teaching in the middle school,our assistant principal came in.
(08:33):
I was pushing in, by the way,into a class, a math class.
Our assistant principal cameinto the class where I was
working with the other teacher.
He was teaching the course, Iwas working with my kids and she
called me out to the hall whereI was working with the other
teacher.
He was teaching the course andI was working with my kids and
she called me out to the hallwhere I met a tiny Cambodian
girl named Sukia.
She was obviously frightenedand I took her hand and I led
(08:54):
her to the classroom and I foundan empty desk toward the back
of the room where I was sitting.
Her eyes were so big and shewas so, so frightened looking
around at these bigger kids Kidswere so much bigger than she
was looking around trying tofigure out what was going on.
I soon discovered that Sokiaknew not one word of English and
(09:14):
I later learned that she'd hadno formal schooling, but she had
had some instruction by refugeeteachers in the refugee camp in
Thailand where her family hadfled from Cambodia.
She had spent several of heryears in this camp prior to her
family coming to CentralCalifornia.
So on this morning as theteacher began his math lessons,
(09:35):
sokia appeared very mystifiedabout the classroom, the teacher
, the kids and what we weredoing.
After about 10 minutes of theteacher teaching, we had an
unannounced fire drill.
I immediately looked at Sokia,who was now completely terrified
.
I grabbed her hand.
We got in line quickly with theother kids.
We marched out to the fieldbehind the school with all the
(09:56):
other kids and waited.
So Kia never let go of her tightgrip on my hand, nor did I let
go of my grip on her hand.
Then the bell rang, and it wasthat shrill, all-clear bell
which totally confused so Kia.
And when we marched back intothe school and we resumed the
math lesson, I've often wonderedwhat that child thought you
(10:18):
know about her first day in anAmerican school.
Is this what's going to happenand what in the world is going
on?
That was when I decided that Ihad to learn more about how to
teach children whose firstlanguage was not English,
because I was the special edteacher and I was a reading
specialist and the assumptionwas by all the teachers and the
(10:38):
administrators that I was theone who knew all about how to
teach these kids.
But in reality I knew nothing.
I knew I had to prepare myself.
So my experience with Sokia andthe many other multilingual
learners that I eventually hadin my classroom ultimately led
me to UC Berkeley to pursue mydoctorate in language and
(10:59):
literacy.
I was privileged to learn fromthe well-known researcher Dr
Lily Wong Fillmore, an expert insecond language acquisition, as
well as other experts there atCal.
My experience with Sokia alsoled eventually in the mid-1990s,
to my work with Dr JennaEchevarria at Long Beach State
(11:20):
and Dr Deborah Short, who wasthen at the Center for Applied
Linguistics, and ultimately tothe creation and research of the
SIOP model for teaching inEnglish academic content and
academic language tomultilingual learners, and now,
in part because of Sokia, theSIOP model is being implemented
in classrooms around the globe,is being implemented in
classrooms around the globe.
Lindsay Persohn (11:42):
So those are the two experiences I think that
really set me on my path ofteaching and learning for all
these many years.
What wonderful experiences youshare with us, mary Ellen, and
you certainly are a superbstoryteller.
I must say I so enjoyed hearingabout that and how it led to
(12:02):
the work that you've beenpursuing for several decades now
.
As you were describing thoseexperiences, I couldn't help but
think about how very relevantthey are to education today.
You gave us some historic timemarkers student teaching 53
years ago, the work you weredoing in 1968, and then in the
(12:23):
80s and I think that we arestill doing education based on
what we think kids need, ratherthan the things that they want
to learn and what might bedrivers in their own lives, what
could be engaging or relevantfor them.
That's one point that certainlysticks out in my mind, because I
think that we're just it's likewe're doing that harder now.
You know.
It's like if they don't get it,if they don't want to know, then
(12:45):
just keep you know, trying todrill it into their heads.
And I also think about all ofour refugee students that are
being served in schools acrossthe United States as well as in
so many other places, and, yeah,just what that experience must
be like, and you know, not onlyis it a foreign environment,
people you don't yet know, butthen to have those really
(13:09):
jarring experiences, like notjust fire drills now, but
certainly where I live we havetornado drills and of course now
we also have active shooterdrills in classrooms.
And so, yeah, you've got towonder what is that human
experience like to be in yourfirst day in a classroom and you
know just the signs and signalsand what that all means and how
(13:32):
really terrifying that might be.
I hope that in response to thisnext question, you will tell us
a bit more about the PSYOPmodel that you've developed, as
well as other work that you'vedone.
So, mary Ellen, what do youwant listeners to know about
your work?
MaryEllen Vogt (13:47):
Well, I will talk about the PSYOP model in a
few minutes.
But I think when I first sawthis question I was thinking I
mean, I just these are suchthoughtful questions in terms of
really looking back about mywork and how I've kind of gone
from being the readingspecialist and special ed
teacher and then moving into awhole new area for me, at least
at the time, was learning abouthow to teach these kids.
(14:09):
But because of the students inthe classroom that I had no idea
how to teach, so I thoughtabout it and here's a reply, and
then I'll tell you a little bitmore about the SIOP model when
I finish this part.
Throughout my career, whetheras a teacher or a reading
specialist, special edspecialist, a district resource
teacher, high school counseloror professor which all the
(14:29):
different labels are job titlesI've had I've been at my best
when I could work with a team offellow educators.
So that's part of this answerto this question is from my
experience in my work teamwork Ihate to use an overused little
expression, but teamwork reallydoes make the dream work.
And that was what I found afterall these years.
(14:52):
And let me give you someexamples All of the books I've
written 17 now counting.
All the revisions have beenco-authored, because I love
working with smart people andI've been blessed to do most of
my writing and research withreally smart women, including
the two I previously mentioned.
All of these co-authors havebeen women scholars.
(15:13):
In addition to Dr Shabaria andDr Short, or Jana and Debbie,
there are more like Dr MaureenMcLaughlin, with whom I
co-authored the first two booksthat I wrote, but also with whom
I worked in Estonia on theInternational Literacy
Association's program Readingand Writing for Critical
Thinking.
Together, maureen and I taught30 amazing Estonian women in the
(15:33):
three-year project, duringwhich we made eight trips to
Estonia.
We had about 70 volunteers.
This was through theInternational Reading
Association or now InternationalLiteracy Association, but we
eventually had 70 volunteers in28 former Soviet countries where
we went in in the early 1990sto teach teachers who had been
(15:54):
in very much of a recitation,you know, information in
information out, kind of mode ofteaching, and we brought in
things like cooperative learningand critical thinking and so
forth which had not been valuedprior to what we say the fall of
communism.
What the Estonians said was thechange was the change in terms
(16:15):
of their moving into freedom,but we were able to teach these
30 amazing teachers in thisthree-year project, and this
partnership with those teachersand with Maureen was an
extraordinary experience for me.
But I would say with them I'vealso co-authored a book with Dr
Vicki Briscoe from Vanderbilt.
(16:35):
I've learned so much from her.
When I was president of theInternational Literacy
Association, I also worked withan amazing team of educators and
I learned from each one of themas well, and the list goes on.
I kind of blew my whistle alittle bit earlier, but I was
thinking that this overusedsaying about teamwork teamwork
makes teamwork.
It is overused, but maybethat's because it's true.
(16:56):
It's absolutely true.
So as teachers, you know, Ithink we've learned as teachers
to be autonomous.
We go into our classrooms inthe morning and we come out at
the end of the day or after alunch break, if you're lucky
enough to get it and that didn'tchange when I went to the
university there's almost moreautonomy in higher education
than in the lower grades.
So my advice would be and whatI've learned is be a leader in
(17:20):
establishing a team with thereally smart people with whom
you work.
Not only is it more fun, butyou share the load with others
and, most important you reallydo learn from each other
together.
Years ago two brothers, davidand Roger Johnson, coined the
term and did the research oncooperative learning for kids.
But I also think thatcooperative learning is
(17:42):
necessary for teachers andadministrators because we get so
much more done when we areworking with a well-oiled team.
So that's my first answer tothe question.
My second answer concerns, thenwhat is the SIOP model?
The SIOP model came out of thisteam Dr Jana Chreria at Cal
(18:03):
State, long Beach, with me, andthen Debbie, who was on the East
Coast.
I had written an article thatwas published in the Reading
Teacher way back in 1991, inwhich I had created an
observation protocol right afterwe'd been in several years of
whole language and we moved tomore literature-based
instruction, but not reallywhole language, getting beyond
(18:25):
that a bit.
And it was difficult foradministrators, who had to go
into classrooms and doobservations and so forth, and
supervisors to really supportteachers and really know what to
look for in classrooms thatwere doing more holistic
teaching through real literature.
So I wrote this, I created thisobservation protocol and it was
published.
Jenna knew about that protocolor that article, and so she came
(18:48):
into my office and she said oneday, would you be?
And we were two differentdepartments.
She was in special education,bilingual special education, and
I was.
I was in teacher education andshe came in and said I know that
you wrote that or designed thatprotocol a few years ago.
Would you be interested in allin working on developing an
(19:10):
observation instrument forsheltered instruction?
Now, in those days, in the early90s, a sheltered instruction
was the term that was being usedall throughout the country and
it was for instructionespecially designed for working
with multilingual learners.
However, in Florida, if you askwhat children's instruction was
(19:31):
, you would get one definitionand one set of examples.
If you ask in Arizona, you'dget another, not only definition
but explanation of whatchildren's instruction is all
about.
And this would happen in all ofwhat we call the border states,
in New York and in Washington,and certainly in California,
where we are having increasingnumbers of kids coming in as
(19:53):
English learners, students whoare coming into classes that
were being taught in English,where the students, of course,
were second language learners ormultilingual learners.
And it was very interestingbecause all these definitions
were different and no one hadreally done that research work
to say well, if we even do thesethings that are being advocated
as sheltered instruction, doesit really make a difference?
(20:16):
So we three women startedtalking and started researching
and started working together onseeing if we could identify what
from research on a regulareducation, mainstream education,
on special education, in thefield of reading, in the field
of bilingual education DeborahShort came from her background.
Her doctorate was in secondlanguage acquisition.
(20:38):
I'm reading, jana is special ed, bilingual special ed.
We came from our own differentbackgrounds in terms of research
and we started investigatingall of them and seeing what are
the instructional features thatare most important for
multilingual learners to besuccessful in content classrooms
where the language ofinstruction is English is not
(20:58):
their language, their homelanguage is not their language,
their home language.
And once we were able to come upwith a list of these features,
then we had a seven-year grantthrough the Department of Ed to
really see if number one, wecould come up with a model
that's where you're calling itat that point a model.
And number two, if it made adifference, if we taught it to
teachers and if they couldimplement it.
(21:20):
And then number three, mostimportantly, does it positively
impact student achievement andlanguage learning?
So that's what we set out todiscover and the results after
that seven-year research studywas 30 instructional features
which, when teachers implementthem to a high degree in their
classroom, we foundstatistically significant
(21:41):
results on both academicmeasures and language measures.
The PSYOP now has been the same30 features but the PSYOP now
is being used really throughoutthe world in any classroom where
the language instructiondiffers from the student's home
language and these features haveheld up over time and has
(22:01):
ultimately been probably my mostsignificant work other than
teaching the kids that I'mteaching right now.
But that's what SIOP Model isall about.
And the sixth version of theMaking Content Comprehensible
for Multilingual Learners.
We changed the title fromEnglish Learners to Multilingual
Learners because the termEnglish Learners is becoming a
(22:22):
bit pejorative in some placesand multilingual learners who
wouldn't want to be multilinguallearners.
So the title of our book sixthedition is Making Content
Comprehensible for MultilingualLearners, the SIOP model.
So I hope that helps you.
Lindsay Persohn (22:36):
Yeah, that's super helpful, mary Ellen, and
it's out now.
MaryEllen Vogt (22:41):
Yes, okay, it is available now.
It came out last about April.
Lindsay Persohn (22:45):
Okay, fantastic .
So if listeners are interestedin learning more about those 30
instructional features and howthey might implement them in
their own classrooms, they cancertainly take a look at that
book.
MaryEllen Vogt (22:57):
And I need to tell you, if you're not familiar
with SIOP, it's not all aboutthrowing out everything that
you're already doing.
We didn't reinvent teaching.
What we did was takeinstructional features that had
a research background.
Each one of those 30 have aresearch background.
They're housed within eightcomponents and I can quickly
mention the eight components arelesson preparation, building
(23:17):
background, comprehensible inputstrategies and it's not like
instructional strategies, it'sreally metacognitive strategies,
thinking strategies, helpingkids to think, use their heads
and learn how to be criticalthinkers in terms of learning
content and reading content.
And then it's interactionhaving a lot of interaction in
(23:40):
the classroom, practice andapplication.
Multilingual learners needpractice and application.
Multilingual learners needpractice and application right
after they learn something, andwe've discovered so all students
.
You know it's very helpful forall students.
Seven is lesson delivery, andthe lesson delivery is kind of
the opposite side of the coinfrom lesson preparation.
We've all created wonderfullesson plans and then at the
point we go in and try to teachto that lesson plan, we go,
(24:01):
whoops, that didn't work.
So we want to make sure thatthe lesson delivery is really
supporting those multilinguallearners and other students.
And then the final, the numbereight of the eight components is
review and assessment.
So it's not all new stuff, it'sthings that are all familiar.
But what's important in SIOP isthe level of implementation
(24:22):
that we're consistently level ofconsistency in using these
features in your classroom.
Lindsay Persohn (24:28):
And it actually makes me think, Mary Ellen,
that rather than, as you said,it's not wheel reinvention, but
I think it could be used as away to refocus our teaching in
some ways, because I do feellike certainly over the last
several years, maybe over thelast couple of decades,
teachers' attention and focushas been pulled in so many
different directions that I findit so helpful when I identify a
(24:52):
model that brings me back tothe things that matter most and
help me to really consider howto design instruction
thoughtfully and intentionally.
MaryEllen Vogt (25:00):
And that is the purpose of it.
It's an instructional frameworkfor any academic area.
Yeah, that's super helpful.
Lindsay Persohn (25:07):
Thank you.
So, mary Ellen, given thechallenges of today's
educational climate, whatmessage do you want teachers to
hear?
MaryEllen Vogt (25:14):
Well, when I first read this question,
Lindsay, I sighed heavily and myhusband even called from the
other room and said that was aheavy sigh.
Are you okay?
And I responded I'm okay.
But in reality, I'm really notokay with all that's happening
today in the field of readinginstruction, especially.
So here's what I think it'simportant to hear with all the
(25:34):
phonics, frenzy and dyslexiadilemmas that are being battered
around online in the press andthat have become so politicized
and I hope this resonatesbecause it's so important we
need to stick with the research.
The science of reading is realand it has been real for a
minimum of 40 years and, as DrClaude Goldenberg has pointed
(25:57):
out, for as long as 200 yearsthere's been a science of
reading, but unfortunately andnot surprisingly, I suppose,
given our current politicalupheaval people are selecting
some reading research studies,while disregarding other
scientific research completely,to either sell products or for
(26:18):
their own personal perspectives.
So, as teachers, we need to beable to cut through all the
noise and all the sales pitchesand actually read the research
for ourselves.
In the September of 2020 and Mayof 2021, the International
Literacy Association published50 peer-reviewed articles in two
(26:39):
reading research quarterlyjournals that are online
journals, by the way, that Ibelieve are must-read
opportunities must-readopportunities for all educators.
These articles are written forall educators in language, not
just research.
It's not just written forresearchers written for all
educators in language that weall understand.
(27:02):
With so many articles and 50 isa big number you can pick and
choose what you want to read,but don't pick only those
articles that you think you'regoing to agree with.
Right, and that's what's sowonderful about these articles
and how they selected theresearchers who are going to
write them.
So let me give you an example.
(27:22):
There's a fascinating review ofthe research on teaching phonics
, and here's the citation.
It's by Linnea Airy, e-h-r-i,and this was in the September
2020.
And it's called the Science ofLearning to Read Words A Case
for Systematic PhonicsInstruction Reading Research
Quarterly, volume 55, and soforth, and this is available
(27:45):
that you can read yourself.
So there's that piece Very,very important.
Linnea Ehri has spent yearsworking with phonics research.
Now, in that very same journal,there is another review of the
research on teaching kids to usecontext, and it's by Donna
Scanlon and KL Anderson, andthis came out also in 2020.
(28:06):
And the article is titled UsingContext as an Assist in Word,
Solving the Contributions of 25Years of Research on the
Interactive Strategies Report,and it's all in that very same
journal, so that, rather thanwringing our hands and throwing
in the towel and gettingfrustrated, get your team
together, that team that youwork with, and arm yourself with
(28:27):
research, because nothing feelsbetter than knowing decisively
what you're talking about.
And I think that's part of theproblem is, a lot of people are
talking about, you know, thescience of reading and talking
about how reading should betaught and all the things that
are happening in some statesthat are very worrisome and
bothersome, I think, to a lot ofeducators.
But we need to arm ourselvesand we need to know decisively
(28:49):
what we are talking about.
And, by the way, if you haven'tchecked out the International
Literacy Association's websiteit's literacyworldwideorg,
wwwliteracyworldwideorg Do so.
Become a member so that you canaccess all the resources that
are on there.
The resources that are on there, and there are some things also
(29:10):
available for non-members.
But become a member if youreally want to get into this
research and become aspokesperson who really knows
what you're talking about.
Now, just this morning, I was onthe ILA website because I
wanted to send the parents ofone of my new students the ILA
position statement on dyslexia.
These parents are so confusedbecause the district where I'm
(29:35):
living right now they're doingassessments that are suggesting
that these kids are dyslexic,when in fact, these kids are
lagging.
They're not dyslexic, but theyare lagging in large part
because of the COVID pandemic.
I wanted my students' parentsto be able to read the ILA
position statement on dyslexiaso they could better understand
(29:56):
the topic and what this allmeans.
So the message I want you toall hear, I think, is be
informed, read the research andaccess research-supported
resources for parents, but alsofor your colleagues, and do all
of that as part of a team.
Lindsay Persohn (30:12):
Yeah, mary Ellen, that's such an important
message, I think, and I do thinkthat the messaging right now
can seem so overwhelming.
And so, yeah, I greatlyappreciate you highlighting
these resources.
We will link to anything we canon your guest page for
listeners as well.
Certainly, we can link to ILA'swebsite and if those articles
you mentioned are available, wewill link to those as well.
Certainly, we can link to ILA'swebsite and if those articles
(30:32):
you mentioned are available, wewill link to those as well,
because you're right, I thinkwhenever we are better informed,
we feel better prepared to havethe conversations and also
better prepared to defend goodinstruction, when that's what
we're doing and it may not beexactly what our district or our
school is calling for it's hardtimes and I totally understand
(30:54):
it.
MaryEllen Vogt (30:54):
I mean I see this every day with parents who
are coming into our center.
I mean I started the centerbecause I was so worried about
kids trying to learn to readonline.
I was retired and having funwith my singing and my acting
and doing all kinds of otherthings and I thought, wait a
minute, I have to do something.
I've got to step up to thethings and I thought, wait a
minute, I have to do something.
I've got to step up to theplate here and see if we can
(31:16):
create something that's going tobe helpful to parents.
(31:43):
We're now getting teachers andsome administrators who are
referring kids to us, becausewhat we're doing is just
assessing students, seeing whatthey need and then teaching them
, and I think, as teachers rightnow we're dragged in so many
different directions thatkeeping that laser focus on.
I'm a teacher.
My job is to know what thesekids need, to assess them, to
arm myself with the informationI need to teach them effectively
and then to teach, and I hopethat these resources and this
(32:08):
message helps you feel that wedo have power, in that we can be
well-informed.
Lindsay Persohn (32:16):
Absolutely, and sometimes I think that it is
that power that can help us tofeel a little bit resettled into
our careers, because I do thinkthat there is so much tension
around education right now thatit can be really hard to
navigate and to keep focused oninstructing students.
So, mary Ellen, I thank you somuch for your time today.
MaryEllen Vogt (32:37):
I've really enjoyed talking with you and I
thank you for your contributionsto the world of education Well,
thank you, lindsay, and I wantto thank you for having these
very important opportunities forteachers to come together.
Thank you, and administratorsand researchers.
Thank you, and administratorsand researchers, thank you.
Lindsay Persohn (32:54):
Dr Mary Ellen Vogt is known for her work in
the areas of teacherprofessional learning, reading
intervention, disciplinaryliteracy and effective
instruction for multilinguallearners.
She's the author or co-authorof over 70 articles and chapters
and 17 books about literacyinstruction.
She's a co-developer andco-author of the book series on
(33:15):
the Sheltered InstructionObservation Protocol, or SIOP
model, an empirically validatedinstructional framework for
teaching multilingual learners.
In addition to her books, herwork can be found in venues like
the Reading Teacher and ReadingToday, as well as free public
sites like ericorg that'sE-R-I-C dot O-R-G.
(33:39):
Dr Vogt is Director and LeadReading Specialist for the
Not-for-Profit LiteracyIntervention and Enrichment
Program targeting children andteens who are experiencing
reading, writing and spellingdifficulties.
Dr Vogt has providedprofessional development
throughout the United States andin several other countries.
She served as a visitingscholar at the University of
(34:03):
Cologne, germany.
She is a member of California'sReading Hall of Fame, is a
recipient of the CSULB'sDistinguished Faculty Teaching
Award and was president of theCalifornia Reading Association
and the International LiteracyAssociation.
In 2017, dr Vogt was inductedinto the Reading Hall of Fame,
(34:24):
an international organization ofliteracy researchers and
scholars.
She also performs with the PopsChorale and Orchestra, as well
as her local community theater.
Dr Vogt holds a doctorate inlanguage and literacy from the
University of California,berkeley and is professor
emeritus at California StateUniversity, long Beach.
(34:47):
In her episode, she specificallymentions the ILA website, which
can be found at www.
literacyworldwideorg.
That's www.
literacyworldwide.
org.
(35:30):
For the good of all students,classroom Caffeine aims to
energize education, research andpractice.
If this show gives you thingsto think about, help us spread
the word.
Talk to your colleagues andeducator friends about what you
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You can support the show bysubscribing, liking and
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Visit classroomcaffeinecom,where you can subscribe to
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On our website, you can alsolearn more about each guest,
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(36:17):
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Special thanks to the ClassroomCaffeine team Leah Berger,
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As always, I raise my mug toyou teachers, thanks for joining
(36:37):
me.
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