October 8, 2025 • 22 mins
Feeling stuck in your teaching practice? Wondering how to better support struggling students? You're not alone. Many educators reach a point where they need deeper knowledge and skills to advance their impact. Dr. Elizabeth Burke Hadley's journey from literature lover to high school English teacher to literacy researcher demonstrates how advanced study can transform both career trajectory and professional effectiveness.
Graduate education provides more than just additional teaching techniques. It offers theoretical frameworks that help explain why certain approaches work, research-based evidence to guide instructional decisions, and a community of fellow educators who bring diverse perspectives and experiences. As Dr. Hadley explains, "Graduate studies really deepened my understanding of everything in the classroom." This deeper understanding translates directly to improved student outcomes.
Feeling inspired? USF’s fully online MA in Reading Education offers flexible pacing, innovative curriculum, embedded media literacy, Florida K-12 endorsement eligibility, and guidance from expert faculty connected to local and global literacy communities. Learn more here: https://hubs.li/Q03J88bv0
Connect with Classroom Caffeine at www.classroomcaffeine.com or on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lindsay Persohn (00:09):
In recent years , we've seen a strong and steady
increase in graduate educationfor teachers and school leaders.
Nationally, more than about 40%of practicing educators now
hold a graduate degree, andthose who do often report
expanded career opportunities,higher salaries and deeper
professional enjoyment.
Even as some other graduatedisciplines have declined in
(00:32):
enrollment, colleges ofeducation continue to see
educators invest in advancedstudy to strengthen their
practice and broaden theirimpact.
Welcome to this special seriesof Classroom Caffeine, where
we're talking with friends, oldand new, about their journey to
and through graduate school.
I'm your host, Lindsay Persohn.
This special series, producedin collaboration with the
(00:54):
University of South Florida'sLiteracy Studies Program in the
College of Education and USF'sInnovative Education, explores
the question what is the valueof graduate education for
educators?
In each episode, we hear fromfaculty and teacher leaders who
share how advanced study andeducation shape their thinking,
(01:14):
their work and theirprofessional lives.
Whether you're consideringgraduate school or guiding
others on that path, this serieswill help give you insight,
encouragement and real storiesfrom the field.
Dr Elizabeth Burke Hadley is anAssociate Professor of Literacy
Studies at the University ofSouth Florida.
(01:35):
Dr Hadley studies youngchildren's language and literacy
development in pre-k classrooms.
Her research focuses on howteachers can help foster young
children's oral language growththrough conversations, shared
book reading and play.
She's also interested inidentifying pre-K literacy
instructional methods thatsupport later reading
(01:57):
comprehension.
Dr Hadley, thanks so much fortaking a few minutes to talk
with me today about the value ofa graduate education for
educators,
Elizabeth Hadley (02:08):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Lindsay Persohn (02:11):
So can you tell us a bit about your path
through higher education?
Where did you study?
What led you to pursue graduatework in education, those kinds
of things.
Elizabeth Hadley (02:20):
Sure I'd be happy to share.
I would say that I have what Iconsider like a fairly
non-traditional path to where Iam today, which is a tenured
associate professor in a collegeof education.
I started kind of like, I guess, my higher education journey,
you know, I graduated from highschool, went to college, I went
to the University of Notre Dame,and at that time I was sort of
(02:44):
unsure about my career path.
I would say, you know, likemany 18 year olds, I didn't
really know what I wanted to dowith my life, but I loved to
read, I loved literature.
If I didn't know anything else,I knew how much I love to read
and talk about books, right.
And so Notre Dame has kind of aunique major called the Program
of Liberal Studies.
It's a great books program.
And so it's kind of like youtake these like Socratic style
(03:10):
seminars where you read like themajor works of Western and
Eastern civilization, and itappealed to me because it was
like very small classes, reallyclose community.
It was kind of a combination ofphilosophy and literature and
theology and all kinds ofdifferent things.
You know, we were reading Platoand Virginia Woolf and all
kinds of like classic worksreally, and being in
(03:33):
conversation about them with ourclassmates.
But the thing with any liberalarts major is it's not
necessarily like pointing you inone career path or another.
People at Notre Dame would jokethat PLS stood for probably law
school, and I did.
Many of my classmates ended upgoing to law school.
I myself took the LSAT senioryear, but I also, when I was at
(03:55):
Notre Dame, had a lot ofexperiences like doing some
tutoring of local students fromelementary schools, and then I
also spent a summer running asummer program for kids in
Boston and working with thosechildren, and specifically I
worked with a pre-K age groupand really enjoyed those little
people.
But when I graduated fromcollege, I kind of thought you
know, if I do want to end upeventually being a lawyer, I
(04:18):
feel like I want to be the kindof lawyer that like makes a
positive difference in the world, and so I actually got a job at
the Justice Department in DC asa paralegal.
I was working in the civilrights division, and so I worked
there for two years and it wasa good experience, but I was
definitely like I don't think Ido want to be a lawyer, I don't
think that's for me.
But I was kind of thinkingabout my next steps and
(04:40):
continuing to do some tutoringwork and I actually lucked into
a teaching position.
I had a couple of friends whoworked at a local school and I
had some connections in terms ofhaving gone to a Catholic
undergrad institution, havinggone to a Catholic high school,
pretty much attended Catholicschools my whole life.
There was like a Catholicschool job fair that I attended
(05:04):
and I knew I happened to likehave some connections with some
friends who worked at thisCatholic school.
I met the principal and theassistant principal and they
ended up hiring me for theupcoming year as a high school
English teacher.
So that summer and then into theschool year I started taking
some graduate credits towardseducation but I wasn't enrolled
(05:25):
in like a formal degree programbut those credits were, I would
say, like half of my life raftas a new teacher.
So I had so much to learn,coming in kind of cold only
having done some tutoring and,you know, having a really strong
foundation in like the content,I would say, as a high school
English teacher, but very littlepreparation in the pedagogy of
(05:47):
how to communicate and teach andhelp these high schoolers learn
Right.
So I was lucky enough to have amentor teacher at my school who
basically, like, walkedstep-by-step with me through
every lesson plan my first yearand who would co-teach with me.
We planned every single lessontogether.
She would come into myclassroom, I would observe her
(06:10):
and then I was continuing totake these graduate credits at
this local college.
So I ended up teaching for fouryears and then I started to feel
the call towards more educationand for me I wasn't sure I
wanted to be a classroom teacherforever, but I was getting
really interested and thinkingabout how I could have impact on
(06:33):
a higher level in the educationspace.
I wasn't exactly sure what thatwould be.
I knew that I was a strongreader and a strong writer and I
wanted to be able to, like makea difference beyond the four
walls of my classroom and I wasalways kind of interested in
research.
So I started havingconversations with some
different people who worked inthe field.
I was sort of interested ineducation policy initially.
(06:55):
I was interested in reading,comprehension and how I could
better support my students whoseemed to really have a hard
time making meaning from some ofthe texts we were reading.
And so eventually I applied forgraduate school at a few
different places and the twoplaces I was really considering
was University of Virginia,which is more of like an
(07:16):
education policy focus, and thenVanderbilt, which had more of a
teaching and learning focus,where I could really like
investigate readingcomprehension and vocabulary and
some of the topics I was reallyinterested in.
And so after visiting bothplaces, I decided to go to
Vanderbilt, and with the ideathat I would first of all get
some more background in teachingtheory and literacy studies
(07:40):
that I hadn't really gottenpreviously, but also that I
would learn how to do researchwith the goal of eventually
either working for a researchorganization or becoming a
professor, and I was reallylucky at Vanderbilt to get some
like really comprehensivetraining in both of those areas
and I fell in love with researchand was lucky enough to get a
job doing research and teachinghere at USF.
Lindsay Persohn (08:04):
One thing that has been really exciting for me
about these conversations isthat I have learned so much
about my colleagues.
These stories about yourbackground, you know they don't
always show up in other spaces.
And so yeah, it's been reallycool to hear about you know the
path that led you to where youare.
I think that's for me that'sone of the most exciting things
(08:24):
about life is you know how thepath unfolds for each of us a
little bit differently,sometimes in really unexpected
ways.
So it's really cool.
So let me ask you this nextquestion In what ways has
graduate studies shaped how youthink about teaching, learning
and leadership?
Elizabeth Hadley (08:41):
Great question .
I think for me, graduateschool really deepened my
understanding of everything inthe classroom.
You know I wish I would havehad the benefit of having like a
more robust education focusedundergrad experience.
I actually wrote my like seniorthesis on an education related
topic and a lot of the readingsI was doing were focused on
(09:03):
education.
But in terms of likecontemporary research on
education, I really only becamedeeply exposed to it in graduate
school.
So I think for me, having boththat theoretical background and
that empirical background tokind of guide teachers' choices
was very helpful for me to likefully understand some of the
(09:24):
decisions I was making.
As a teacher, I felt confidentin some areas and then less
confident in others.
I had some students who werereally struggling with reading
right.
I think I did a great job ofcreating a supportive classroom
community.
I think I did a great job ofsparking students' love of
reading.
We had a really fun book club.
(09:46):
I was always turning mystudents on to new books that
they would get excited about.
I think I did some great workin that area and like helping
them become excited about thingslike Shakespeare and whatever.
But I did not feel like I wasequipped to really help move the
needle for my students whoneeded more support and help,
and so that was like afrustration for me and I really
(10:07):
regret not being able to helpthem more.
Right, and that's something Iactually hear from my students a
lot now too, like my master'sin reading students.
You do your undergrad and it'sjust like drinking from a fire
hose.
There's so much to learn, notjust about reading and literacy,
but about everything to do withrunning a classroom and about
(10:27):
supporting your students in allkinds of ways that, like you
really can't absorb everythingyou need to know.
And especially if students comeinto a school where, like,
maybe the curriculum isn't thatgreat, they don't really have an
understanding of the why behindit, maybe the district is
changing the curriculum everyfive minutes so they can't even
learn how to do it properly,they feel like they don't know
the interventions they're usingaren't really working.
(10:48):
So I feel like a lot of ourstudents come to the master's
program being like I'mfrustrated, I feel like I don't
know what I'm doing really, andI can identify with that feeling
, because I felt like I couldn'treally help support my students
with their readingcomprehension struggles in very
meaningful ways.
Right, I mean that's part ofthe reason why I actually ended
up doing research with kidsearlier on, because it's easier
(11:13):
to intervene for students whenthey're younger, and so that's
part of the reason why I workwith younger students.
But I think also, graduatestudies are a great time to just
dive deeper and develop somereal expertise in the areas
you're interested in and be ableto like acquire some additional
tools to make a difference,whether that's in your classroom
or maybe you want to learn howto support other teachers better
(11:35):
.
There's an art to coachingteachers, just as there's an art
to teaching the students inyour classroom.
So I think graduate studies canjust give you that additional
expertise that I personally waslooking for and felt that I
lacked.
As I said, I was sort ofunprepared in many ways for my
teaching experience, but I think, even having done undergrad,
(11:55):
sometimes we just need a littlebit more.
Teaching is such a demandingprofession and there's always
more to learn and there's alwayssome additional tools we can
put into our toolbox in terms ofsupporting our students, even
more so with all the digitalinnovations that are happening
and technological innovations,so many of us are looking for
(12:15):
guidance as to how to employthose thoughtfully with our
students and in our classrooms,and I think graduate studies can
be a great place to get thatinformation as well.
Lindsay Persohn (12:25):
Yeah, I totally agree and I think a few things
you said really resonated withme this idea that when you are
in a profession and you thinkyou're doing a few things pretty
well, but you still have allthese questions because of
course an undergraduate degreecan't prepare you for everything
right, we can't just open it up, pour it all in, you know and
(12:46):
you're ready to go, I just.
But I also think that it takessome of that experience to know
what you don't know.
And then I think it makes thatgraduate path that much more
rewarding, because you're kindof going in with a focus or with
an eye for something or you'retrying to find answers to the
big questions that still remainin your mind.
And I think in some waysgraduate programs are also
(13:07):
really humbling because yourealize how much there is to
know and how much you don't know.
And maybe you come out feelingalso simultaneously, or
contradictorily, a little bitmore confident in what you know
as well, but also still knowingthat there's still a lot to
learn.
Elizabeth Hadley (13:23):
So you can't do it all in the undergrad level
because you don't have like thepractical experience to
integrate it with and, like yousaid, you teach for a year or
two and then you come back to agraduate program and you're able
to really understand andcontextualize the learning a
little bit more and be moreself-directed about like this is
what I want to know more about.
(13:43):
The other thing I'll say is thatthe students in our master's in
reading program, like, learn alot from each other.
Just sharing their experiencesacross districts or sharing
ideas of tools that they use ortheir thoughts and reflections
on different topics, I think arereally helpful to each other
because most of them have atleast a year or two of
experience under their belt.
Some of them have 20 years ofexperience under their belts and
(14:05):
being able to come together ina community where there's not
the pressure of it's your schoolcommunity you're talking to
your supervisor, you're talkingto your like teacher across the
hall that's great too, but beingin a different environment
where you're learning from, mostof the time, other Floridians,
other Florida teachers, whereyou can take the best of their
experience and wisdom and bringit back to their own classroom,
(14:26):
in addition to all the wonderfulreadings you're reading and
instruction you're getting fromyour professor.
I think is a really greatcombination.
Lindsay Persohn (14:34):
Yeah, I think that network is so important.
I think you know, networks forteachers are critical for that
day-to-day, not just survivingin the classroom but really
thriving, and I think thatwhenever you enter a graduate
program it does give you accessto a whole different network of
people with different ideas anddifferent opportunities that,
like you said, you may notnecessarily be able to get in
(14:56):
your school building or evenwithin your own home district or
you know circuit of schools,right?
So what advice would you giveto future graduate students if
an educator was considering whenor if to take up a graduate
program.
What advice would you give?
Elizabeth Hadley (15:13):
I think I would advise them to look for a
program that's flexible.
First of all, I think it'sreally important, if you're
planning on teaching and gettingyour master's degree at the
same time, that you choose aprogram that's sort of designed
for somebody like you where theother students will also be
full-time teachers who aretaking classes in the evening.
(15:34):
I mean that's kind of like, Iguess, logistical, but it is
important in order for you to besuccessful.
It's really helpful to havethose structures in place where,
like, the program expects youto be a teacher for the most
part, or maybe somebody who'sconsidering becoming a teacher,
but somebody who's working fulltime and is doing this sort of
(15:55):
in the evenings and weekends andmaking it work for themselves.
Other things I would considerare just being clear on your
motivation and your why behindgetting a graduate degree.
I think for me, I really feltmotivated to learn more and, if
I wasn't going to be a classroomteacher, at least thinking
(16:16):
about my sort of life and careergoals around being in education
and finding out more andresearching more and
contributing to, like our bodyof knowledge about how to
improve outcomes for kids.
So having that personal why foryourself could be something
like this is something I'vealways wanted for myself.
This is a personal goal for meto get my master's degree.
(16:38):
Or maybe it's like I want to bea literacy coach.
I'm ready to help share myknowledge with teachers and I
want to learn more about how tosupport teachers right?
Maybe it's that I feel like Ineed to know more to support the
struggling readers in myclassroom.
But having that kind of clearmotivation or rationale behind
your program will kind of carryyou through those moments where
(17:00):
you're like, oh my goodness, Ihave all these readings to do, I
have to get my grades in and mykids have three soccer games on
Saturday or whatever.
So I think having thatmotivation laid out for yourself
clearly is really helpful.
I always tell my students topace themselves right.
I have flexible due dates inall of my classes because our
(17:22):
students are workingprofessionals.
I have due dates, of course,but there's no penalty for late
work.
It's okay if they turn thingsin a little late, but I tell
them not to wait until the lastminute and to be like very
intentional and planful abouthow they schedule themselves.
We do have eight-week master'scourses, and so it kind of goes
like that.
It's great because you can getyour degree in a shorter amount
(17:44):
of time, but it also means thatyou have to be focused or the
half semester will be overbefore you know it.
So yeah, just a few kind ofthoughts about doing a graduate
program while also teaching ordoing other work full time.
Lindsay Persohn (17:57):
Yeah, and on that note of time, the time it
takes and due dates and being sobusy, I think the other thing I
always think about is that thetime commitment isn't forever,
but the degree is you know, andso I think that's.
There's that trade-off as well,that it might, you know, maybe
it takes you two years to get amaster's degree, but you'll have
that for the rest of your life,for the rest of your career,
(18:20):
and so the knowledge stays, even, you know, once our schedules
adjust a bit.
Elizabeth Hadley (18:25):
So yeah, the pain is temporary, but it's also
it's not just pain.
It's so exciting.
You'll find yourself like yourbrain will just be so busy
because you're thinking abouteverything that you've learned
and integrating it.
And you know, we've beentalking master's degree but,
like a lot of teachers also goback and get their EdD, which is
more of an applied doctorate.
A lot of students get theirmaster's degree and then
(18:46):
continue on to their PhD right.
So there are several options interms of graduate degrees and
you can kind of choose what isthe best fit for you in
particular, and you know, ifyou're interested in
administration.
Eventually it is helpful tohave an advanced degree, as
you're thinking aboutpotentially taking on roles
outside the classroom and kindof either moving up in the
(19:07):
district or moving up at thestate level.
So having advanced degrees canbe a real asset just in terms of
having a resume that looksstrong.
Lindsay Persohn (19:16):
Yeah, yeah, it can definitely open a lot of
doors.
Like you said, even if you wantto be the best teacher, you can
be within the four walls ofyour classroom.
Or if you want to try somethingdifferent, you know, or advance
your career in another way, so,yeah, that's great, great
advice.
One last question for you whatdo you wish you had known before
starting grad school?
Elizabeth Hadley (19:37):
I think I thought that everybody else knew
exactly what they were doing,and that's not the case.
People certainly came in withsome more robust background
experiences than I did, in termsof having gotten their master's
degree or whatever, but interms of like, if you're getting
your PhD and you're about tostart doing research, most
people don't really know whatthey're doing either.
(19:58):
So I think for me it was.
I was very overwhelmed my firstyear of graduate school and I
like partially brought it onmyself because I was kind of
going in cold, but partially, Ithink I could have been a little
more patient with myself interms of not expecting myself to
have figured out mydissertation topic on week one
of graduate school.
So I think it's important, like,not to compare yourself to
(20:19):
others.
We're all on our own journeysand I think we all have
something to contribute, right,and I think the piece that you
have to contribute will becomeapparent as you continue on your
career path.
If you don't know it already,it will become apparent and you
do have something to bring tothe table.
So, just being open to learningand being patient with yourself
(20:41):
, knowing that there is a lot tolearn but that life is long and
we all have lots of time andexperience that'll help build
our expertise, and I thinkgraduate school is an important
piece of that for a lot of us.
Lindsay Persohn (20:52):
Great advice.
So thank you again so much forspending a few minutes talking
with me about your graduateschool journey, Dr Hadley, and
yeah, greatly appreciate yourtime and ideas.
Elizabeth Hadley (21:03):
Thank you so much.
This has been fun.
Lindsay Persohn (21:15):
Thanks for joining us for this special
episode in the special series ofClassroom Caffeine, in
collaboration with LiteracyStudies Program at the
University of South Florida'sCollege of Education and USF's
Innovative Education.
If today's conversation sparkedyour curiosity about graduate
education programs, you canlearn more about USF's Reading,
(21:36):
masters and Literacy Studiesprograms by visiting www.
usfedu/ education/ areas- of-study/ literacy studies/programs
.
So again that's If youhaven't already, subscribe to
(22:23):
the Classroom Caffeine podcastfor more energizing
conversations with inspiringeducators and education
researchers.
Until next time, stay curiousand keep learning.
In recent years , we've seen a strong and steady
increase in graduate educationfor teachers and school leaders.
Nationally, more than about 40%of practicing educators now
hold a graduate degree, andthose who do often report
expanded career opportunities,higher salaries and deeper
professional enjoyment.
Even as some other graduatedisciplines have declined in
(00:32):
enrollment, colleges ofeducation continue to see
educators invest in advancedstudy to strengthen their
practice and broaden theirimpact.
Welcome to this special seriesof Classroom Caffeine, where
we're talking with friends, oldand new, about their journey to
and through graduate school.
I'm your host, Lindsay Persohn.
This special series, producedin collaboration with the
(00:54):
University of South Florida'sLiteracy Studies Program in the
College of Education and USF'sInnovative Education, explores
the question what is the valueof graduate education for
educators?
In each episode, we hear fromfaculty and teacher leaders who
share how advanced study andeducation shape their thinking,
(01:14):
their work and theirprofessional lives.
Whether you're consideringgraduate school or guiding
others on that path, this serieswill help give you insight,
encouragement and real storiesfrom the field.
Dr Elizabeth Burke Hadley is anAssociate Professor of Literacy
Studies at the University ofSouth Florida.
(01:35):
Dr Hadley studies youngchildren's language and literacy
development in pre-k classrooms.
Her research focuses on howteachers can help foster young
children's oral language growththrough conversations, shared
book reading and play.
She's also interested inidentifying pre-K literacy
instructional methods thatsupport later reading
(01:57):
comprehension.
Dr Hadley, thanks so much fortaking a few minutes to talk
with me today about the value ofa graduate education for
educators,
Elizabeth Hadley (02:08):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Lindsay Persohn (02:11):
So can you tell us a bit about your path
through higher education?
Where did you study?
What led you to pursue graduatework in education, those kinds
of things.
Elizabeth Hadley (02:20):
Sure I'd be happy to share.
I would say that I have what Iconsider like a fairly
non-traditional path to where Iam today, which is a tenured
associate professor in a collegeof education.
I started kind of like, I guess, my higher education journey,
you know, I graduated from highschool, went to college, I went
to the University of Notre Dame,and at that time I was sort of
(02:44):
unsure about my career path.
I would say, you know, likemany 18 year olds, I didn't
really know what I wanted to dowith my life, but I loved to
read, I loved literature.
If I didn't know anything else,I knew how much I love to read
and talk about books, right.
And so Notre Dame has kind of aunique major called the Program
of Liberal Studies.
It's a great books program.
And so it's kind of like youtake these like Socratic style
(03:10):
seminars where you read like themajor works of Western and
Eastern civilization, and itappealed to me because it was
like very small classes, reallyclose community.
It was kind of a combination ofphilosophy and literature and
theology and all kinds ofdifferent things.
You know, we were reading Platoand Virginia Woolf and all
kinds of like classic worksreally, and being in
(03:33):
conversation about them with ourclassmates.
But the thing with any liberalarts major is it's not
necessarily like pointing you inone career path or another.
People at Notre Dame would jokethat PLS stood for probably law
school, and I did.
Many of my classmates ended upgoing to law school.
I myself took the LSAT senioryear, but I also, when I was at
(03:55):
Notre Dame, had a lot ofexperiences like doing some
tutoring of local students fromelementary schools, and then I
also spent a summer running asummer program for kids in
Boston and working with thosechildren, and specifically I
worked with a pre-K age groupand really enjoyed those little
people.
But when I graduated fromcollege, I kind of thought you
know, if I do want to end upeventually being a lawyer, I
(04:18):
feel like I want to be the kindof lawyer that like makes a
positive difference in the world, and so I actually got a job at
the Justice Department in DC asa paralegal.
I was working in the civilrights division, and so I worked
there for two years and it wasa good experience, but I was
definitely like I don't think Ido want to be a lawyer, I don't
think that's for me.
But I was kind of thinkingabout my next steps and
(04:40):
continuing to do some tutoringwork and I actually lucked into
a teaching position.
I had a couple of friends whoworked at a local school and I
had some connections in terms ofhaving gone to a Catholic
undergrad institution, havinggone to a Catholic high school,
pretty much attended Catholicschools my whole life.
There was like a Catholicschool job fair that I attended
(05:04):
and I knew I happened to likehave some connections with some
friends who worked at thisCatholic school.
I met the principal and theassistant principal and they
ended up hiring me for theupcoming year as a high school
English teacher.
So that summer and then into theschool year I started taking
some graduate credits towardseducation but I wasn't enrolled
(05:25):
in like a formal degree programbut those credits were, I would
say, like half of my life raftas a new teacher.
So I had so much to learn,coming in kind of cold only
having done some tutoring and,you know, having a really strong
foundation in like the content,I would say, as a high school
English teacher, but very littlepreparation in the pedagogy of
(05:47):
how to communicate and teach andhelp these high schoolers learn
Right.
So I was lucky enough to have amentor teacher at my school who
basically, like, walkedstep-by-step with me through
every lesson plan my first yearand who would co-teach with me.
We planned every single lessontogether.
She would come into myclassroom, I would observe her
(06:10):
and then I was continuing totake these graduate credits at
this local college.
So I ended up teaching for fouryears and then I started to feel
the call towards more educationand for me I wasn't sure I
wanted to be a classroom teacherforever, but I was getting
really interested and thinkingabout how I could have impact on
(06:33):
a higher level in the educationspace.
I wasn't exactly sure what thatwould be.
I knew that I was a strongreader and a strong writer and I
wanted to be able to, like makea difference beyond the four
walls of my classroom and I wasalways kind of interested in
research.
So I started havingconversations with some
different people who worked inthe field.
I was sort of interested ineducation policy initially.
(06:55):
I was interested in reading,comprehension and how I could
better support my students whoseemed to really have a hard
time making meaning from some ofthe texts we were reading.
And so eventually I applied forgraduate school at a few
different places and the twoplaces I was really considering
was University of Virginia,which is more of like an
(07:16):
education policy focus, and thenVanderbilt, which had more of a
teaching and learning focus,where I could really like
investigate readingcomprehension and vocabulary and
some of the topics I was reallyinterested in.
And so after visiting bothplaces, I decided to go to
Vanderbilt, and with the ideathat I would first of all get
some more background in teachingtheory and literacy studies
(07:40):
that I hadn't really gottenpreviously, but also that I
would learn how to do researchwith the goal of eventually
either working for a researchorganization or becoming a
professor, and I was reallylucky at Vanderbilt to get some
like really comprehensivetraining in both of those areas
and I fell in love with researchand was lucky enough to get a
job doing research and teachinghere at USF.
Lindsay Persohn (08:04):
One thing that has been really exciting for me
about these conversations isthat I have learned so much
about my colleagues.
These stories about yourbackground, you know they don't
always show up in other spaces.
And so yeah, it's been reallycool to hear about you know the
path that led you to where youare.
I think that's for me that'sone of the most exciting things
(08:24):
about life is you know how thepath unfolds for each of us a
little bit differently,sometimes in really unexpected
ways.
So it's really cool.
So let me ask you this nextquestion In what ways has
graduate studies shaped how youthink about teaching, learning
and leadership?
Elizabeth Hadley (08:41):
Great question .
I think for me, graduateschool really deepened my
understanding of everything inthe classroom.
You know I wish I would havehad the benefit of having like a
more robust education focusedundergrad experience.
I actually wrote my like seniorthesis on an education related
topic and a lot of the readingsI was doing were focused on
(09:03):
education.
But in terms of likecontemporary research on
education, I really only becamedeeply exposed to it in graduate
school.
So I think for me, having boththat theoretical background and
that empirical background tokind of guide teachers' choices
was very helpful for me to likefully understand some of the
(09:24):
decisions I was making.
As a teacher, I felt confidentin some areas and then less
confident in others.
I had some students who werereally struggling with reading
right.
I think I did a great job ofcreating a supportive classroom
community.
I think I did a great job ofsparking students' love of
reading.
We had a really fun book club.
(09:46):
I was always turning mystudents on to new books that
they would get excited about.
I think I did some great workin that area and like helping
them become excited about thingslike Shakespeare and whatever.
But I did not feel like I wasequipped to really help move the
needle for my students whoneeded more support and help,
and so that was like afrustration for me and I really
(10:07):
regret not being able to helpthem more.
Right, and that's something Iactually hear from my students a
lot now too, like my master'sin reading students.
You do your undergrad and it'sjust like drinking from a fire
hose.
There's so much to learn, notjust about reading and literacy,
but about everything to do withrunning a classroom and about
(10:27):
supporting your students in allkinds of ways that, like you
really can't absorb everythingyou need to know.
And especially if students comeinto a school where, like,
maybe the curriculum isn't thatgreat, they don't really have an
understanding of the why behindit, maybe the district is
changing the curriculum everyfive minutes so they can't even
learn how to do it properly,they feel like they don't know
the interventions they're usingaren't really working.
(10:48):
So I feel like a lot of ourstudents come to the master's
program being like I'mfrustrated, I feel like I don't
know what I'm doing really, andI can identify with that feeling
, because I felt like I couldn'treally help support my students
with their readingcomprehension struggles in very
meaningful ways.
Right, I mean that's part ofthe reason why I actually ended
up doing research with kidsearlier on, because it's easier
(11:13):
to intervene for students whenthey're younger, and so that's
part of the reason why I workwith younger students.
But I think also, graduatestudies are a great time to just
dive deeper and develop somereal expertise in the areas
you're interested in and be ableto like acquire some additional
tools to make a difference,whether that's in your classroom
or maybe you want to learn howto support other teachers better
(11:35):
.
There's an art to coachingteachers, just as there's an art
to teaching the students inyour classroom.
So I think graduate studies canjust give you that additional
expertise that I personally waslooking for and felt that I
lacked.
As I said, I was sort ofunprepared in many ways for my
teaching experience, but I think, even having done undergrad,
(11:55):
sometimes we just need a littlebit more.
Teaching is such a demandingprofession and there's always
more to learn and there's alwayssome additional tools we can
put into our toolbox in terms ofsupporting our students, even
more so with all the digitalinnovations that are happening
and technological innovations,so many of us are looking for
(12:15):
guidance as to how to employthose thoughtfully with our
students and in our classrooms,and I think graduate studies can
be a great place to get thatinformation as well.
Lindsay Persohn (12:25):
Yeah, I totally agree and I think a few things
you said really resonated withme this idea that when you are
in a profession and you thinkyou're doing a few things pretty
well, but you still have allthese questions because of
course an undergraduate degreecan't prepare you for everything
right, we can't just open it up, pour it all in, you know and
(12:46):
you're ready to go, I just.
But I also think that it takessome of that experience to know
what you don't know.
And then I think it makes thatgraduate path that much more
rewarding, because you're kindof going in with a focus or with
an eye for something or you'retrying to find answers to the
big questions that still remainin your mind.
And I think in some waysgraduate programs are also
(13:07):
really humbling because yourealize how much there is to
know and how much you don't know.
And maybe you come out feelingalso simultaneously, or
contradictorily, a little bitmore confident in what you know
as well, but also still knowingthat there's still a lot to
learn.
Elizabeth Hadley (13:23):
So you can't do it all in the undergrad level
because you don't have like thepractical experience to
integrate it with and, like yousaid, you teach for a year or
two and then you come back to agraduate program and you're able
to really understand andcontextualize the learning a
little bit more and be moreself-directed about like this is
what I want to know more about.
(13:43):
The other thing I'll say is thatthe students in our master's in
reading program, like, learn alot from each other.
Just sharing their experiencesacross districts or sharing
ideas of tools that they use ortheir thoughts and reflections
on different topics, I think arereally helpful to each other
because most of them have atleast a year or two of
experience under their belt.
Some of them have 20 years ofexperience under their belts and
(14:05):
being able to come together ina community where there's not
the pressure of it's your schoolcommunity you're talking to
your supervisor, you're talkingto your like teacher across the
hall that's great too, but beingin a different environment
where you're learning from, mostof the time, other Floridians,
other Florida teachers, whereyou can take the best of their
experience and wisdom and bringit back to their own classroom,
(14:26):
in addition to all the wonderfulreadings you're reading and
instruction you're getting fromyour professor.
I think is a really greatcombination.
Lindsay Persohn (14:34):
Yeah, I think that network is so important.
I think you know, networks forteachers are critical for that
day-to-day, not just survivingin the classroom but really
thriving, and I think thatwhenever you enter a graduate
program it does give you accessto a whole different network of
people with different ideas anddifferent opportunities that,
like you said, you may notnecessarily be able to get in
(14:56):
your school building or evenwithin your own home district or
you know circuit of schools,right?
So what advice would you giveto future graduate students if
an educator was considering whenor if to take up a graduate
program.
What advice would you give?
Elizabeth Hadley (15:13):
I think I would advise them to look for a
program that's flexible.
First of all, I think it'sreally important, if you're
planning on teaching and gettingyour master's degree at the
same time, that you choose aprogram that's sort of designed
for somebody like you where theother students will also be
full-time teachers who aretaking classes in the evening.
(15:34):
I mean that's kind of like, Iguess, logistical, but it is
important in order for you to besuccessful.
It's really helpful to havethose structures in place where,
like, the program expects youto be a teacher for the most
part, or maybe somebody who'sconsidering becoming a teacher,
but somebody who's working fulltime and is doing this sort of
(15:55):
in the evenings and weekends andmaking it work for themselves.
Other things I would considerare just being clear on your
motivation and your why behindgetting a graduate degree.
I think for me, I really feltmotivated to learn more and, if
I wasn't going to be a classroomteacher, at least thinking
(16:16):
about my sort of life and careergoals around being in education
and finding out more andresearching more and
contributing to, like our bodyof knowledge about how to
improve outcomes for kids.
So having that personal why foryourself could be something
like this is something I'vealways wanted for myself.
This is a personal goal for meto get my master's degree.
(16:38):
Or maybe it's like I want to bea literacy coach.
I'm ready to help share myknowledge with teachers and I
want to learn more about how tosupport teachers right?
Maybe it's that I feel like Ineed to know more to support the
struggling readers in myclassroom.
But having that kind of clearmotivation or rationale behind
your program will kind of carryyou through those moments where
(17:00):
you're like, oh my goodness, Ihave all these readings to do, I
have to get my grades in and mykids have three soccer games on
Saturday or whatever.
So I think having thatmotivation laid out for yourself
clearly is really helpful.
I always tell my students topace themselves right.
I have flexible due dates inall of my classes because our
(17:22):
students are workingprofessionals.
I have due dates, of course,but there's no penalty for late
work.
It's okay if they turn thingsin a little late, but I tell
them not to wait until the lastminute and to be like very
intentional and planful abouthow they schedule themselves.
We do have eight-week master'scourses, and so it kind of goes
like that.
It's great because you can getyour degree in a shorter amount
(17:44):
of time, but it also means thatyou have to be focused or the
half semester will be overbefore you know it.
So yeah, just a few kind ofthoughts about doing a graduate
program while also teaching ordoing other work full time.
Lindsay Persohn (17:57):
Yeah, and on that note of time, the time it
takes and due dates and being sobusy, I think the other thing I
always think about is that thetime commitment isn't forever,
but the degree is you know, andso I think that's.
There's that trade-off as well,that it might, you know, maybe
it takes you two years to get amaster's degree, but you'll have
that for the rest of your life,for the rest of your career,
(18:20):
and so the knowledge stays, even, you know, once our schedules
adjust a bit.
Elizabeth Hadley (18:25):
So yeah, the pain is temporary, but it's also
it's not just pain.
It's so exciting.
You'll find yourself like yourbrain will just be so busy
because you're thinking abouteverything that you've learned
and integrating it.
And you know, we've beentalking master's degree but,
like a lot of teachers also goback and get their EdD, which is
more of an applied doctorate.
A lot of students get theirmaster's degree and then
(18:46):
continue on to their PhD right.
So there are several options interms of graduate degrees and
you can kind of choose what isthe best fit for you in
particular, and you know, ifyou're interested in
administration.
Eventually it is helpful tohave an advanced degree, as
you're thinking aboutpotentially taking on roles
outside the classroom and kindof either moving up in the
(19:07):
district or moving up at thestate level.
So having advanced degrees canbe a real asset just in terms of
having a resume that looksstrong.
Lindsay Persohn (19:16):
Yeah, yeah, it can definitely open a lot of
doors.
Like you said, even if you wantto be the best teacher, you can
be within the four walls ofyour classroom.
Or if you want to try somethingdifferent, you know, or advance
your career in another way, so,yeah, that's great, great
advice.
One last question for you whatdo you wish you had known before
starting grad school?
Elizabeth Hadley (19:37):
I think I thought that everybody else knew
exactly what they were doing,and that's not the case.
People certainly came in withsome more robust background
experiences than I did, in termsof having gotten their master's
degree or whatever, but interms of like, if you're getting
your PhD and you're about tostart doing research, most
people don't really know whatthey're doing either.
(19:58):
So I think for me it was.
I was very overwhelmed my firstyear of graduate school and I
like partially brought it onmyself because I was kind of
going in cold, but partially, Ithink I could have been a little
more patient with myself interms of not expecting myself to
have figured out mydissertation topic on week one
of graduate school.
So I think it's important, like,not to compare yourself to
(20:19):
others.
We're all on our own journeysand I think we all have
something to contribute, right,and I think the piece that you
have to contribute will becomeapparent as you continue on your
career path.
If you don't know it already,it will become apparent and you
do have something to bring tothe table.
So, just being open to learningand being patient with yourself
(20:41):
, knowing that there is a lot tolearn but that life is long and
we all have lots of time andexperience that'll help build
our expertise, and I thinkgraduate school is an important
piece of that for a lot of us.
Lindsay Persohn (20:52):
Great advice.
So thank you again so much forspending a few minutes talking
with me about your graduateschool journey, Dr Hadley, and
yeah, greatly appreciate yourtime and ideas.
Elizabeth Hadley (21:03):
Thank you so much.
This has been fun.
Lindsay Persohn (21:15):
Thanks for joining us for this special
episode in the special series ofClassroom Caffeine, in
collaboration with LiteracyStudies Program at the
University of South Florida'sCollege of Education and USF's
Innovative Education.
If today's conversation sparkedyour curiosity about graduate
education programs, you canlearn more about USF's Reading,
(21:36):
masters and Literacy Studiesprograms by visiting www.
usfedu/ education/ areas- of-study/ literacy studies/programs
.
So again that's If youhaven't already, subscribe to
(22:23):
the Classroom Caffeine podcastfor more energizing
conversations with inspiringeducators and education
researchers.
Until next time, stay curiousand keep learning.
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