April 17, 2025 • 30 mins
Today’s episode of the Clean Power Hour, Tim Montague welcomes back Chris Lettman, US Sales Director for Imperial Star Solar, to dive deep into the world of domestic content in solar panel manufacturing. As the US approaches 50 gigawatts of solar panel manufacturing capacity, Chris brings his 16+ years of industry experience to clarify the often misunderstood requirements for domestic content qualification.
Chris explains the critical distinction between modules assembled in the US versus those that truly qualify for the 10% ITC domestic content adder, which requires US-manufactured solar cells. With only about 5 gigawatts of the current 50 gigawatts of panel manufacturing capacity using domestically produced cells, Chris cautions developers and EPCs to thoroughly vet manufacturers' claims about domestic content eligibility.
The conversation explores Imperial Star Solar's 2-gigawatt manufacturing facility in Houston, Texas, their partnership with Suniva for solar cells, and their commitment to transparency regarding domestic content verification. Chris shares insights from his recent experience at the Solar and Wind Finance Conference in Phoenix, noting the growing brand recognition of Imperial Star in the US market.
Tim and Chris also discuss the broader implications of reshoring solar manufacturing, including job creation, tax revenue, and supply chain security. They address how the current political climate affects the solar manufacturing renaissance spurred by the Inflation Reduction Act, emphasizing the importance of continued good industrial policy to support American manufacturing.
Whether you're a solar developer navigating ITC requirements, an EPC looking to source domestically manufactured panels, or simply interested in the future of American clean energy manufacturing, this episode offers valuable insights you won't want to miss. Listen now to understand the complexities and opportunities in US solar panel manufacturing.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris Lettman (00:00):
Okay, you know Imperial Star, you know we're
(00:02):
like I said. I can't go into theconfidential details, but we're
doing the necessary steps. We'redoing more than the necessary
steps right now to make ourcustomers feel comfortable
knowing that what domesticcontent components are being
used are, in fact, certifiedthat they are being originating
(00:24):
from the US.
intro (00:25):
Are you speeding the energy transition here at the
Clean Power Hour, our host, TimMontague, bring you the best in
solar, batteries and cleantechnologies every week. Want to
go deeper into decarbonization.
We do too. We're here to helpyou understand and command the
commercial, residential andutility, solar, wind and storage
industries. So let's get to ittogether. We can speed the
(00:47):
energy transition
Tim Montague (00:51):
today on the Clean Power Hour domestic content in
solar panel manufacturing. Myguest is a friend of the pod and
a repeat guest. His name isChris lutman, and he is the US
Sales Director for Imperial StarSolar. Welcome back to the show,
Chris.
Chris Lettman (01:08):
Thank you. Tim, happy to be back on. Always.
Look forward to not only beingon and attending as a guest, but
also listening to your weeklypodcast. And I think what you're
doing is a great it's great forour our community. It's great
for the solar industry, and Itruly appreciate the time today.
Unknown (01:28):
Well, thank you. It's, it is a passion project,
largely, but it's verygratifying. And I, and I love
you know, talking to all of thepeople that I get to talk to, it
is a privilege to have the podand get all the, you know, the
inside stories that I get. So Ilove doing this. And today, I'm
(01:51):
especially thrilled, though,Chris, to get under the covers a
little bit of the solar panelmanufacturing industry here in
the United States. You know, thestory on the street is that
we're now approaching 50gigawatts of solar panel
manufacturing. We achieved 50gigawatts of installations in
2024 that will probably go downa little bit. I think the word
(02:13):
on the street is in 2025 but youknow, it's been ticking up. It
wasn't long ago when it was 20gigawatts, and now it's 50, and
here we are and and because ofthe IRA, the inflation Reduction
Act and the ITC adders fordomestic content, we now have
real solar panel factoriesgetting built, including solar
(02:38):
cell manufacturing. So why don'tyou set the table for us from
your perspective, and tell us alittle bit about how you came to
Imperial Star?
Chris Lettman (02:46):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So just to kind of
lead lead off with the modulecapacity here in the US, as you
said, it's 50, or nearing 50gigawatts. On the cell side,
it's, it's about 10 megawatts.
I'm sorry, it's about 10% ofthat, so we still have a lot of
growth on that end, on the celland eventually the wafer, but
(03:07):
we'll come back to that maybelater on in the podcast, because
it's a little bit differentconversation, but it's
definitely connected. SoImperial Star Solar is a module
manufacturer based in Houston,Texas. Our capacity is two
gigawatts now, with that twogigawatts that includes domestic
content eligible modules that wewe currently produce right now.
(03:32):
So it's been, it's been a wildride. We've we've been producing
modules since December of lastyear. We're at full capacity
right now. We're churning outabout 166 megawatts per month.
So so very, very active. I'vebeen back to the factory several
times since January, both forcompany meetings as well as
(03:56):
customer tours and conferenceconference meetings. And you
know discussion, discussionsaround you know how to move
things forward with with thosecustomers. So it's been very,
very busy.
Unknown (04:10):
And you're also on the tail end of a solar Finance
Conference in Arizona, wheremany asset owners and developers
go to do business, and you werea sponsor of that show, and we
were just saying how ImperialStar has worked hard to grow
their brand in the US, and nowyou are getting some brand
(04:31):
recognition. If you haven'theard of Imperial Star, I will
just say, check them out,because they when you look at
their data sheets, you seeimmediately that this is a high
quality, UL certified product.
It's the real deal. They are notnoobs to the solar panel
industry, even though you maynot be familiar with them.
They're not the household nameof some of the other big solar
(04:54):
manual panel manufacturers, butthey are a real. High quality
product. So with that out of theway, what is the let's, let's
set the table a little more.
What is your read on solar panelmanufacturing and our industry,
I guess, at large in the UnitedStates? Yeah,
Chris Lettman (05:18):
right now, where, where we're at as an industry,
and more specifically withModule manufacturing, as I
mentioned, we're set up inHouston, Texas, and Texas
continues to be very open andvery, very, I don't want to say
easy, but there's quite a fewmodule manufacturers that are
based in Texas that are comingup and planning to build in
(05:41):
Texas as well. Not only that,expansion plans, we're we're
currently at two gigawatts, andwe're already putting in plans
to expand our capacity and ourproduction. So it's full steam
ahead. And aside from all thechallenges that we've been faced
with recently, currently and inthe past. You know, I think it's
(06:03):
a a testament to the resiliencyof our industry that, you know,
we overcome things, we overcometerrorists, we overcome
legislation issues, we overcomenet metering issues, we overcome
just about anything that anyoneis going to throw at us. And
that's one of the things that Ilike about this industry. It's
definitely not boring. And soyou gotta, you gotta stay on
(06:26):
your toes. You gotta followwhat's going on in all different
areas of of the industry, notjust with technology, but
legislation, advancements,manufacturing and so forth. So
it's, it continues to pushforward. I think we hit a few
hiccups in the industryrecently, but I'm not, I'm not
(06:49):
overly worried about it. Tim,I've been in this industry for
over 16 years, and I don't wantto say I've seen it all, because
I know I haven't. I know I'mgoing to see more eventually,
but my confidence lies in thefact that we're going to, we're
going to bounce back, we'regoing to, we're going to, you
know, resolve any issues. We'regoing to figure out a workaround
(07:12):
on anything that anyone wants tothrow at us. So,
Unknown (07:16):
you know, I mean, the, one of the cool things about the
state of the industry is that wedo have a lot of manufacturing
plants being built in the USnow. And let's face it, this
means high wage jobs. It meanstax revenue, and these factories
are largely in red states, notnot exclusively, but Texas,
(07:40):
Georgia, Indiana, SouthCarolina, to name a few, where
there are major solar panelfactories or solar cell
factories being built oroperating. And if you're the
governor of those states, youwant these plants. It's good for
your it's good for your economy.
Yeah. And then everybody insolar understands that there's
(08:02):
this flow of global finance intorenewables that is virtually
unstoppable. It goes faster whenthere's good incentives like the
ITC, right? And and if you takethe ITC away, it will slow the
flow, but it cannot stop theflow, because solar, wind and
batteries are the cheapestsources of of New Energy, and
(08:25):
fossils are going to go by thewayside one way or another.
They're they're not going awayanytime soon, unfortunately,
right? And so we also have torecognize that we're not really
stopping global warming at therate that we're making the
energy transition. We're notsolving that problem, but we are
(08:45):
Greening the Grid, and that's animportant step, and it is going
to get greened, like it or not.
Donald Trump, we are going togreen the grid. So deal with it,
brother, I say to Donald Trump.
But anyway, all the developers Iknow, and literally 100% and
this includes EPCs, that selfdevelop are looking for domestic
(09:07):
content solar panels, becauseyou can get a 10% adder per
today, we don't know tomorrow,but you can get a 10% adder on
the ITC, if you can get domesticcontent now, that means that the
panel has to be made with cellsmade in the US to get the 10%
adder right, you can, you can,if you use foreign made cells,
(09:30):
which the vast majority of ofthose 50 gig watts, as you
pointed out, 45 of the 50 gigwatts are made with cells made
elsewhere, because that's wherethe solar cells are made. We
don't have a lot of cellmanufacturing in the US, and so
you just have to be careful whenyou're talking to these people,
whether they're brokers ormanufacturers. You know, it's a
(09:52):
both and and everybody wants topromise you the sky. So. You
just got to make sure that theycan deliver on what they're
promising. Yeah, and
Chris Lettman (10:05):
that's where I think there's a lot of
misunderstanding andmisinformation that's coming
through the different channels.
And whether you're a c9developer, or whether you're a
utility scale project developer,owner, operator, the
conversation I'm having on aregular, regular basis, day in
and day out, for the past threemonths, I'm hearing stories from
(10:27):
some of my clients andprospective clients that are
telling me, you know, Well,Chris, you know you're giving
me, you know, this price, andthis is the technology you're
saying for for your modules,with your sales and everything,
I'm seeing a price, you know,cheaper than that, substantially
cheaper than that. And I pause,I think about, I digest what
(10:50):
they're telling me, and thenI'll go in a little bit further
and ask them, you know, what?
What does that include? Youknow, to your point, with the
cells and the additionalmanufactured product component,
or MPC, as it's called on thenew safe harbor table. And the
(11:11):
fact of the matter is, you cansome companies are claiming
domestic content module whenthey only have maybe the frame
or the glass or the back sheet,but maybe not the cell. And
without that PV cell beingmanufactured in the US, and
currently, there's only a smallnumber of manufacturing on the
(11:34):
on the cell side, that'shappening right now, there's
some plants that are planningproduction later this year and
into 2026 but that hasn'thappened yet. So I caution these
customers, these clients, youknow, the listeners of your
podcast, and you know people I'mtalking to, people you're
talking to Tim. You know, notall domestic content modules are
(11:55):
created equal. You know, withoutthe cell, it's a very different
conversation, and sure I candeliver a module that has the
frame, the back sheet, the Jbox, a couple other components
that might give you 10, 15%percentage points on what you
need. 45% for this year is theaggregate total. 50% next year,
(12:19):
in 2025 and in 2026, and beyond,it's going to go up to 55% so
that that percentage, you maynot reach those thresholds. And
if you don't reach thosethresholds, and you're, you're
calculating, you know whatyou're going to pay out for,
modules, inverters, racking,labor and such, and you think
(12:42):
you're going to get that 10% taxadder you might be off, you
know. So I encourage thelisteners of your podcast, you
know, to to, you know, kind of,you know, be cautious.
Investigate, vet out what thesemodule manufacturers are saying.
Ask them to prove to you, tosome extent. I mean, I can't go
into the details of what we'reproviding to our customers, but
(13:06):
once an NDA is struck betweenboth parties, you know, we're
having these in depthconversations, and we're more
than happy to share, you know,information that will make the
customer comfortable with whatwe're telling them is to be, you
know, part of the domesticcomponent chain that's listed on
the on the table, the Clean
Unknown (13:27):
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(13:49):
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(14:16):
more. Yeah, and it's no secretthat you have a partnership with
Suniva? Yeah, go to suniva.comand you'll see that there's a
very small cadre. This is a verysmall ecosystem. It's a very
good ecosystem. But you'll seeannouncements about Imperial
Star, Helene and now a jointventure. That's what I call it,
(14:40):
I don't know they call it apartnership, yeah, with Corning,
which also involves, apparently,Hemlock, which is a well known
silicon manufacturer, right,based in, I think, historically
Michigan, but I think so, yeah,but anyway, this is, this is a
relative. Small ecosystem. We'retalking about five gigawatts
(15:02):
today total. Is there anothercompany besides Suniva that is
rolling out solar cells? Yeah,great question. Great
Chris Lettman (15:10):
question. So ES foundry, they're based in South
Carolina. Alex is heading upthat, that company. He's a CEO.
I actually used to work with himat another company on the module
side, okay? And I just spoke toAlex at re plus in Boston.
Matter of fact, re plusNortheast, and so they are
(15:30):
opening up and going intoproduction. I believe their
capacity is three gigawatts so.
But, you know, back to the therelationship that Imperial Star
Solar has with Geneva. You know,I just talked to Matt card over
there about a week ago, and youknow, they've been, you know,
very, very supportive of whatwe're doing. And the
relationship between the twocompanies have has been
(15:52):
phenomenal, and we look forwardto expanding that. And you know,
there's some exciting thingscoming up around the corner
here, probably, I'm hoping,sometime in, in April. So, you
know, stay tuned for that.
Unknown (16:06):
Very cool. Yeah, yeah, there's a story on E, on on, on
the ES foundries website about,you know, the the current
administration's attacks on theIRA and how this is not good for
solar manufacturing, it caststhe shadow over the industry,
and it's a big deal. I pointedout recently, I think, on my
(16:27):
news roundup with John Weaver,that, yeah, we're building a lot
of factories. They may not getturned on or expanded to the
extent possible if we scarethese companies away. And we
have to realize that the 50gigawatts of solar in the US is
maybe 5% of the global solarindustry, right? It's a small
(16:48):
piece of the pie, and so wedon't really, really matter to
these big global manufacturers.
We're big enough that they comehere and are actively selling in
the US, and we're gratefulbecause they are mostly foreign
entities that have the trackrecord in solar manufacturing.
We just didn't. We didn't grabon to it early enough and fast
enough. I mean, maybe in thevery, very early days, we did,
(17:13):
but it quickly went overseas toGermany and Japan and China, and
they have leaned into it fasterand harder than we have, and now
we're making an effort toonshore and reshore some of that
manufacturing, both of solarpanels, batteries and chips, and
this is a big deal too, right?
(17:34):
Because our world runs onsemiconductors, and like Taiwan,
semiconductor makes 70% of thechips that we consume here in
the United States. So oureconomy, all of our stuff, our
cars, our trucks, our machinery,our smart devices, everything
that are running on these onthese chips. And
Chris Lettman (17:53):
look at all these AI data centers that are that
are coming online, that arebeing planned. Those are, those
are heavy, heavy, you know,energy demands from from those
locations and from those datacenters. And I know a lot of
companies. I spoke to a fewcompanies at the Phoenix Arizona
infocast solar and wind FinanceConference last week, and spoke
(18:18):
to a few of those folks that aredeveloping and building these
data centers throughout thecountry, and you know, they're
looking, they're looking tosolar and wind as as part of
their, you know, their energymix to supply power to those
data centers.
Unknown (18:36):
Yeah, our grid is burgeoning. We're going to be
consuming a lot moreelectricity, because of data
centers, because ofelectrification of
transportation and HVAC, andeventually heavy industry, we're
going to triple, quadruple thegrid. There's going to be power
shortages because we're we'regrowing our consumption, our
demand, of electricity so fast,and so it is kind of an all
(19:00):
hands on deck. We want thatenergy to be clean. We want it
to be secure. We want it to beeasy to procure. The supply
chain issues that we had duringCOVID were really significant,
and so that's another greatreason to onshore this stuff,
right? Just put it on a train ora truck instead of having to
ship it 1000s of miles acrossthe Pacific Ocean or the
(19:21):
Atlantic ocean before, right? Wedon't we want to make it here if
we can. It just makes so muchgood sense. Now, yeah, Americans
workers make a higher wage, andso traditionally, that has been
a challenge, right? And we haveoffshored a lot of
manufacturing, but that's notgood for our economy at large,
(19:41):
right, those we want higher wagejobs in America for our workers
like that's a thing, a legacysince Henry Ford, right, kind of
mainstreamed mass manufacturingand made products that were
affordable for his workers bypaying his workers a living
wage, he really. Made a mark anda legacy for that, and we we
(20:04):
stepped away from that for quitea while, and we have this thing
called the rust belt here in theMidwest, all the way over to
Pennsylvania, right where therewere just factories after
factories after factories thatgot shuttered and Detroit turned
into a complete blight becausethe auto industry moved away to
to Latin America and to Japanand Korea, etc. And now we're
(20:28):
trying to do something good forthe economy and and, you know,
the Biden administration wasvery smart about this. That was
good industrial policy. Andhopefully somebody can talk some
sun sense into the currentadministration in this regard,
because we need to continue goodindustrial policy. Yeah.
Chris Lettman (20:46):
So, you know, Americans need, you know, good
paying, you know, jobs. And oneway to do that is to bring back
manufacturing here in the US,with PV module manufacturing,
with the inverters and with theracking, we already have good
paying jobs on the constructionside, and there's actually a
shortage of there's a higherdemand and a shortage of those
employees and those constructionworkers and those electricians
(21:10):
and, you know, schools andtrade, trade schools are, you
know, training as fast as theycan to get those people out
there. And I think it's a greatthing. I mean, it's, I guess
it's a good problem to have. Nowwe can just marry that up and
catch up on the manufacturing,on on the equipment side. You
know, we're off and running. So,you know, I'm definitely
(21:30):
positive about that, but we havea lot of work to do. We have a
lot of work to do. And you know,it's not going to be easy, but
it, you know, it is what it is.
And you know, we can as acountry, we can pull it together
and and make it happen.
Unknown (21:45):
Well, what else should our listeners know about
domestic content, solar panelsand your work at Imperial Star,
and then also, Chris, I'd loveit if you could highlight some
upcoming conferences that you'llbe at where people can meet you
face to face? Yeah,
Chris Lettman (22:01):
yeah, absolutely.
Um, so domestic content modules.
Again, I can't emphasize thisenough. Tim, the customer has to
ask a lot of questions, whereare these components coming
from? How are they classified asdomestic? Whether it's the
frame, whether it's the cell,whether it's the back sheet,
encapsulant, the glass, the potand the J box, you know, get,
(22:23):
you know, push, push. Thatmanufacturer. You have every
right to inquire about thesource of these components to
ensure that they're going tomeet the the domestic content
requirement. You know, make surethat everything lines up. And if
you're not, if you're notcertain, if you're not
comfortable, if they're notgiving you information, that
(22:44):
makes you feel confident thatthey're going to be there. You
might want to shop around. Youmight want to look elsewhere.
Okay, you know, Imperial Star.
You know, like I said, I can'tgo into the confidential
details, but we're doing thenecessary steps. We're doing
more than the necessary stepsright now to make our customers
feel comfortable knowing thatwhat domestic content components
(23:05):
are being used are, in fact,certified that they are being
originating from the US. And youknow, as I said again, our two
gigawatt factory is going to beexpanding, and at our Houston
facility, that's exciting.
Speaking of Houston, I'm goingto be at the RE plus Texas
(23:28):
event, which is coming up inMay. It's going to run from May
13 and the 14th out in Houston,Texas. Come find me. Another way
to find me is on LinkedIn. Go toImperial, star, solar on
LinkedIn, follow us on LinkedInand look me up, and you can
direct message me there. I'dlove to have a conversation with
you guys.
Unknown (23:50):
Excellent. Alright, plus Texas may 13 and 14, I'll
make sure that's on our website,at Clean Power hour.com, and of
course, you'll be at Vegas also,I assume in
Chris Lettman (24:05):
September. Yeah, yep, the flagship event of all
events this year will be, will,will be out there in full force.
We're going to have, you know,I'm here at our sales and
marketing office in Irvine,California. And then, of course,
we have our employees workingout of our Houston factory, in
house sales, and our seniorleadership will be there. That's
(24:29):
that's the other thing too. Iwant to talk about on the
domestic content side. Keep inmind Tim that all of the
Imperial Star employees werelocally based here in the US. So
while we have our factory herein Houston, Texas, you know, not
all companies have all the maindecision makers here locally,
and that makes a difference,because, yeah, you can find
(24:52):
different modules out there inthe in the US market and
domestic content, if that's whatyou're seeking. But there might
be some lag time in. Gettinganswers and getting updates on
your shipment, or gettingconfirmation on whether a PO has
been accepted or whatnot. We'reall based here in the US,
whether we're in the CentralTime Zone or the Pacific Time
(25:13):
Zone. Here in California, you'regoing to get a response. You're
going to get me, you're going toget someone that I report to.
You're going to get a you'regoing to get a quick response.
Unknown (25:24):
I would also encourage our listeners to check out the
about page. You see the Kiwapvel logo there. The module,
their module reliabilityscorecard is one of my favorite
ways of really kicking the tireson PV products and but many
other certifications, ISO UL,State of California, etc. Are
(25:47):
there other regional shows whereyou're going to be Chris this
year?
Chris Lettman (25:51):
Right now, as I mentioned, May for re plus
Houston, September for the bigRa plus in Las Vegas. They I
update and we update on ourwebsite. You know, if you follow
Imperial Star Solar on LinkedIn,you're going to be able to get
our monthly newsletter where weupdate, you know, changes to the
(26:15):
market, changes to to our ourcompany, updates on our company,
but also where we're going to beat, you know, I'll be speaking
at PV module tech up in Napa,California in June. That's a
smaller, that's more of aconference seminar. So not, not
as widely attended as some ofthe RE plus events, but a very,
(26:37):
very important conference, ifyou are on the procurement side,
technology side of solar, we getreally into the weeds when, when
we're up there at the PV moduletech
Unknown (26:49):
yeah, I've never been to that show or event. I've
heard of it, and it is asmaller, but more technical
conference, so people to checkthat out as well. And who
doesn't want to go to Napa? Uh,sounds like a lovely setting in
in June, yeah. All right, well,um, check out all of our content
at Clean Power hour.com Pleasegive us a rating and a review on
(27:12):
Apple or Spotify. Follow us onYouTube, reach out to me on
LinkedIn. I love hearing from mylisteners. And I also will be at
re plus Vegas. I will not be atTexas, unfortunately, but
they'll there are three eventsin Chicago that I will be at.
That is the Midwest solar Expoin June, then the solar farm
(27:33):
summit, I think that is inAugust, and then Midwest re plus
Midwest in October. So we havethree robust conferences in
Chicago, and of course, I willbe at Vegas. So hope to see you,
Chris, of course, in Vegas, andmaybe I'll get to do a visit to
(27:53):
your factory in Houston. I wouldreally like to do that. We'd
Chris Lettman (27:56):
love to have you come out, Tim, and that is an
open invitation for you. Thankyou
Unknown (28:01):
so much, Chris, okay, my friend. Repeat once again.
How can our listeners find youon LinkedIn? Yeah. Chris
Chris Lettman (28:07):
letman, at LinkedIn, under Imperial, star,
solar, just go to the main page.
You'll see me as one of theemployees there. US sales, my
name. Reach out, connect, followus on LinkedIn. Sign up for the
newsletter, and you'll get moreinformation that I provided here
today on on the podcast.
Unknown (28:26):
All right, with that, I'll say I'm Tim Montague, let's
grow solar and storage. Thanksso much. Chris letman, Thanks,
Tim. You.
Okay, you know Imperial Star, you know we're
(00:02):
like I said. I can't go into theconfidential details, but we're
doing the necessary steps. We'redoing more than the necessary
steps right now to make ourcustomers feel comfortable
knowing that what domesticcontent components are being
used are, in fact, certifiedthat they are being originating
(00:24):
from the US.
intro (00:25):
Are you speeding the energy transition here at the
Clean Power Hour, our host, TimMontague, bring you the best in
solar, batteries and cleantechnologies every week. Want to
go deeper into decarbonization.
We do too. We're here to helpyou understand and command the
commercial, residential andutility, solar, wind and storage
industries. So let's get to ittogether. We can speed the
(00:47):
energy transition
Tim Montague (00:51):
today on the Clean Power Hour domestic content in
solar panel manufacturing. Myguest is a friend of the pod and
a repeat guest. His name isChris lutman, and he is the US
Sales Director for Imperial StarSolar. Welcome back to the show,
Chris.
Chris Lettman (01:08):
Thank you. Tim, happy to be back on. Always.
Look forward to not only beingon and attending as a guest, but
also listening to your weeklypodcast. And I think what you're
doing is a great it's great forour our community. It's great
for the solar industry, and Itruly appreciate the time today.
Unknown (01:28):
Well, thank you. It's, it is a passion project,
largely, but it's verygratifying. And I, and I love
you know, talking to all of thepeople that I get to talk to, it
is a privilege to have the podand get all the, you know, the
inside stories that I get. So Ilove doing this. And today, I'm
(01:51):
especially thrilled, though,Chris, to get under the covers a
little bit of the solar panelmanufacturing industry here in
the United States. You know, thestory on the street is that
we're now approaching 50gigawatts of solar panel
manufacturing. We achieved 50gigawatts of installations in
2024 that will probably go downa little bit. I think the word
(02:13):
on the street is in 2025 but youknow, it's been ticking up. It
wasn't long ago when it was 20gigawatts, and now it's 50, and
here we are and and because ofthe IRA, the inflation Reduction
Act and the ITC adders fordomestic content, we now have
real solar panel factoriesgetting built, including solar
(02:38):
cell manufacturing. So why don'tyou set the table for us from
your perspective, and tell us alittle bit about how you came to
Imperial Star?
Chris Lettman (02:46):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So just to kind of
lead lead off with the modulecapacity here in the US, as you
said, it's 50, or nearing 50gigawatts. On the cell side,
it's, it's about 10 megawatts.
I'm sorry, it's about 10% ofthat, so we still have a lot of
growth on that end, on the celland eventually the wafer, but
(03:07):
we'll come back to that maybelater on in the podcast, because
it's a little bit differentconversation, but it's
definitely connected. SoImperial Star Solar is a module
manufacturer based in Houston,Texas. Our capacity is two
gigawatts now, with that twogigawatts that includes domestic
content eligible modules that wewe currently produce right now.
(03:32):
So it's been, it's been a wildride. We've we've been producing
modules since December of lastyear. We're at full capacity
right now. We're churning outabout 166 megawatts per month.
So so very, very active. I'vebeen back to the factory several
times since January, both forcompany meetings as well as
(03:56):
customer tours and conferenceconference meetings. And you
know discussion, discussionsaround you know how to move
things forward with with thosecustomers. So it's been very,
very busy.
Unknown (04:10):
And you're also on the tail end of a solar Finance
Conference in Arizona, wheremany asset owners and developers
go to do business, and you werea sponsor of that show, and we
were just saying how ImperialStar has worked hard to grow
their brand in the US, and nowyou are getting some brand
(04:31):
recognition. If you haven'theard of Imperial Star, I will
just say, check them out,because they when you look at
their data sheets, you seeimmediately that this is a high
quality, UL certified product.
It's the real deal. They are notnoobs to the solar panel
industry, even though you maynot be familiar with them.
They're not the household nameof some of the other big solar
(04:54):
manual panel manufacturers, butthey are a real. High quality
product. So with that out of theway, what is the let's, let's
set the table a little more.
What is your read on solar panelmanufacturing and our industry,
I guess, at large in the UnitedStates? Yeah,
Chris Lettman (05:18):
right now, where, where we're at as an industry,
and more specifically withModule manufacturing, as I
mentioned, we're set up inHouston, Texas, and Texas
continues to be very open andvery, very, I don't want to say
easy, but there's quite a fewmodule manufacturers that are
based in Texas that are comingup and planning to build in
(05:41):
Texas as well. Not only that,expansion plans, we're we're
currently at two gigawatts, andwe're already putting in plans
to expand our capacity and ourproduction. So it's full steam
ahead. And aside from all thechallenges that we've been faced
with recently, currently and inthe past. You know, I think it's
(06:03):
a a testament to the resiliencyof our industry that, you know,
we overcome things, we overcometerrorists, we overcome
legislation issues, we overcomenet metering issues, we overcome
just about anything that anyoneis going to throw at us. And
that's one of the things that Ilike about this industry. It's
definitely not boring. And soyou gotta, you gotta stay on
(06:26):
your toes. You gotta followwhat's going on in all different
areas of of the industry, notjust with technology, but
legislation, advancements,manufacturing and so forth. So
it's, it continues to pushforward. I think we hit a few
hiccups in the industryrecently, but I'm not, I'm not
(06:49):
overly worried about it. Tim,I've been in this industry for
over 16 years, and I don't wantto say I've seen it all, because
I know I haven't. I know I'mgoing to see more eventually,
but my confidence lies in thefact that we're going to, we're
going to bounce back, we'regoing to, we're going to, you
know, resolve any issues. We'regoing to figure out a workaround
(07:12):
on anything that anyone wants tothrow at us. So,
Unknown (07:16):
you know, I mean, the, one of the cool things about the
state of the industry is that wedo have a lot of manufacturing
plants being built in the USnow. And let's face it, this
means high wage jobs. It meanstax revenue, and these factories
are largely in red states, notnot exclusively, but Texas,
(07:40):
Georgia, Indiana, SouthCarolina, to name a few, where
there are major solar panelfactories or solar cell
factories being built oroperating. And if you're the
governor of those states, youwant these plants. It's good for
your it's good for your economy.
Yeah. And then everybody insolar understands that there's
(08:02):
this flow of global finance intorenewables that is virtually
unstoppable. It goes faster whenthere's good incentives like the
ITC, right? And and if you takethe ITC away, it will slow the
flow, but it cannot stop theflow, because solar, wind and
batteries are the cheapestsources of of New Energy, and
(08:25):
fossils are going to go by thewayside one way or another.
They're they're not going awayanytime soon, unfortunately,
right? And so we also have torecognize that we're not really
stopping global warming at therate that we're making the
energy transition. We're notsolving that problem, but we are
(08:45):
Greening the Grid, and that's animportant step, and it is going
to get greened, like it or not.
Donald Trump, we are going togreen the grid. So deal with it,
brother, I say to Donald Trump.
But anyway, all the developers Iknow, and literally 100% and
this includes EPCs, that selfdevelop are looking for domestic
(09:07):
content solar panels, becauseyou can get a 10% adder per
today, we don't know tomorrow,but you can get a 10% adder on
the ITC, if you can get domesticcontent now, that means that the
panel has to be made with cellsmade in the US to get the 10%
adder right, you can, you can,if you use foreign made cells,
(09:30):
which the vast majority of ofthose 50 gig watts, as you
pointed out, 45 of the 50 gigwatts are made with cells made
elsewhere, because that's wherethe solar cells are made. We
don't have a lot of cellmanufacturing in the US, and so
you just have to be careful whenyou're talking to these people,
whether they're brokers ormanufacturers. You know, it's a
(09:52):
both and and everybody wants topromise you the sky. So. You
just got to make sure that theycan deliver on what they're
promising. Yeah, and
Chris Lettman (10:05):
that's where I think there's a lot of
misunderstanding andmisinformation that's coming
through the different channels.
And whether you're a c9developer, or whether you're a
utility scale project developer,owner, operator, the
conversation I'm having on aregular, regular basis, day in
and day out, for the past threemonths, I'm hearing stories from
(10:27):
some of my clients andprospective clients that are
telling me, you know, Well,Chris, you know you're giving
me, you know, this price, andthis is the technology you're
saying for for your modules,with your sales and everything,
I'm seeing a price, you know,cheaper than that, substantially
cheaper than that. And I pause,I think about, I digest what
(10:50):
they're telling me, and thenI'll go in a little bit further
and ask them, you know, what?
What does that include? Youknow, to your point, with the
cells and the additionalmanufactured product component,
or MPC, as it's called on thenew safe harbor table. And the
(11:11):
fact of the matter is, you cansome companies are claiming
domestic content module whenthey only have maybe the frame
or the glass or the back sheet,but maybe not the cell. And
without that PV cell beingmanufactured in the US, and
currently, there's only a smallnumber of manufacturing on the
(11:34):
on the cell side, that'shappening right now, there's
some plants that are planningproduction later this year and
into 2026 but that hasn'thappened yet. So I caution these
customers, these clients, youknow, the listeners of your
podcast, and you know people I'mtalking to, people you're
talking to Tim. You know, notall domestic content modules are
(11:55):
created equal. You know, withoutthe cell, it's a very different
conversation, and sure I candeliver a module that has the
frame, the back sheet, the Jbox, a couple other components
that might give you 10, 15%percentage points on what you
need. 45% for this year is theaggregate total. 50% next year,
(12:19):
in 2025 and in 2026, and beyond,it's going to go up to 55% so
that that percentage, you maynot reach those thresholds. And
if you don't reach thosethresholds, and you're, you're
calculating, you know whatyou're going to pay out for,
modules, inverters, racking,labor and such, and you think
(12:42):
you're going to get that 10% taxadder you might be off, you
know. So I encourage thelisteners of your podcast, you
know, to to, you know, kind of,you know, be cautious.
Investigate, vet out what thesemodule manufacturers are saying.
Ask them to prove to you, tosome extent. I mean, I can't go
into the details of what we'reproviding to our customers, but
(13:06):
once an NDA is struck betweenboth parties, you know, we're
having these in depthconversations, and we're more
than happy to share, you know,information that will make the
customer comfortable with whatwe're telling them is to be, you
know, part of the domesticcomponent chain that's listed on
the on the table, the Clean
Unknown (13:27):
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(14:16):
more. Yeah, and it's no secretthat you have a partnership with
Suniva? Yeah, go to suniva.comand you'll see that there's a
very small cadre. This is a verysmall ecosystem. It's a very
good ecosystem. But you'll seeannouncements about Imperial
Star, Helene and now a jointventure. That's what I call it,
(14:40):
I don't know they call it apartnership, yeah, with Corning,
which also involves, apparently,Hemlock, which is a well known
silicon manufacturer, right,based in, I think, historically
Michigan, but I think so, yeah,but anyway, this is, this is a
relative. Small ecosystem. We'retalking about five gigawatts
(15:02):
today total. Is there anothercompany besides Suniva that is
rolling out solar cells? Yeah,great question. Great
Chris Lettman (15:10):
question. So ES foundry, they're based in South
Carolina. Alex is heading upthat, that company. He's a CEO.
I actually used to work with himat another company on the module
side, okay? And I just spoke toAlex at re plus in Boston.
Matter of fact, re plusNortheast, and so they are
(15:30):
opening up and going intoproduction. I believe their
capacity is three gigawatts so.
But, you know, back to the therelationship that Imperial Star
Solar has with Geneva. You know,I just talked to Matt card over
there about a week ago, and youknow, they've been, you know,
very, very supportive of whatwe're doing. And the
relationship between the twocompanies have has been
(15:52):
phenomenal, and we look forwardto expanding that. And you know,
there's some exciting thingscoming up around the corner
here, probably, I'm hoping,sometime in, in April. So, you
know, stay tuned for that.
Unknown (16:06):
Very cool. Yeah, yeah, there's a story on E, on on, on
the ES foundries website about,you know, the the current
administration's attacks on theIRA and how this is not good for
solar manufacturing, it caststhe shadow over the industry,
and it's a big deal. I pointedout recently, I think, on my
(16:27):
news roundup with John Weaver,that, yeah, we're building a lot
of factories. They may not getturned on or expanded to the
extent possible if we scarethese companies away. And we
have to realize that the 50gigawatts of solar in the US is
maybe 5% of the global solarindustry, right? It's a small
(16:48):
piece of the pie, and so wedon't really, really matter to
these big global manufacturers.
We're big enough that they comehere and are actively selling in
the US, and we're gratefulbecause they are mostly foreign
entities that have the trackrecord in solar manufacturing.
We just didn't. We didn't grabon to it early enough and fast
enough. I mean, maybe in thevery, very early days, we did,
(17:13):
but it quickly went overseas toGermany and Japan and China, and
they have leaned into it fasterand harder than we have, and now
we're making an effort toonshore and reshore some of that
manufacturing, both of solarpanels, batteries and chips, and
this is a big deal too, right?
(17:34):
Because our world runs onsemiconductors, and like Taiwan,
semiconductor makes 70% of thechips that we consume here in
the United States. So oureconomy, all of our stuff, our
cars, our trucks, our machinery,our smart devices, everything
that are running on these onthese chips. And
Chris Lettman (17:53):
look at all these AI data centers that are that
are coming online, that arebeing planned. Those are, those
are heavy, heavy, you know,energy demands from from those
locations and from those datacenters. And I know a lot of
companies. I spoke to a fewcompanies at the Phoenix Arizona
infocast solar and wind FinanceConference last week, and spoke
(18:18):
to a few of those folks that aredeveloping and building these
data centers throughout thecountry, and you know, they're
looking, they're looking tosolar and wind as as part of
their, you know, their energymix to supply power to those
data centers.
Unknown (18:36):
Yeah, our grid is burgeoning. We're going to be
consuming a lot moreelectricity, because of data
centers, because ofelectrification of
transportation and HVAC, andeventually heavy industry, we're
going to triple, quadruple thegrid. There's going to be power
shortages because we're we'regrowing our consumption, our
demand, of electricity so fast,and so it is kind of an all
(19:00):
hands on deck. We want thatenergy to be clean. We want it
to be secure. We want it to beeasy to procure. The supply
chain issues that we had duringCOVID were really significant,
and so that's another greatreason to onshore this stuff,
right? Just put it on a train ora truck instead of having to
ship it 1000s of miles acrossthe Pacific Ocean or the
(19:21):
Atlantic ocean before, right? Wedon't we want to make it here if
we can. It just makes so muchgood sense. Now, yeah, Americans
workers make a higher wage, andso traditionally, that has been
a challenge, right? And we haveoffshored a lot of
manufacturing, but that's notgood for our economy at large,
(19:41):
right, those we want higher wagejobs in America for our workers
like that's a thing, a legacysince Henry Ford, right, kind of
mainstreamed mass manufacturingand made products that were
affordable for his workers bypaying his workers a living
wage, he really. Made a mark anda legacy for that, and we we
(20:04):
stepped away from that for quitea while, and we have this thing
called the rust belt here in theMidwest, all the way over to
Pennsylvania, right where therewere just factories after
factories after factories thatgot shuttered and Detroit turned
into a complete blight becausethe auto industry moved away to
to Latin America and to Japanand Korea, etc. And now we're
(20:28):
trying to do something good forthe economy and and, you know,
the Biden administration wasvery smart about this. That was
good industrial policy. Andhopefully somebody can talk some
sun sense into the currentadministration in this regard,
because we need to continue goodindustrial policy. Yeah.
Chris Lettman (20:46):
So, you know, Americans need, you know, good
paying, you know, jobs. And oneway to do that is to bring back
manufacturing here in the US,with PV module manufacturing,
with the inverters and with theracking, we already have good
paying jobs on the constructionside, and there's actually a
shortage of there's a higherdemand and a shortage of those
employees and those constructionworkers and those electricians
(21:10):
and, you know, schools andtrade, trade schools are, you
know, training as fast as theycan to get those people out
there. And I think it's a greatthing. I mean, it's, I guess
it's a good problem to have. Nowwe can just marry that up and
catch up on the manufacturing,on on the equipment side. You
know, we're off and running. So,you know, I'm definitely
(21:30):
positive about that, but we havea lot of work to do. We have a
lot of work to do. And you know,it's not going to be easy, but
it, you know, it is what it is.
And you know, we can as acountry, we can pull it together
and and make it happen.
Unknown (21:45):
Well, what else should our listeners know about
domestic content, solar panelsand your work at Imperial Star,
and then also, Chris, I'd loveit if you could highlight some
upcoming conferences that you'llbe at where people can meet you
face to face? Yeah,
Chris Lettman (22:01):
yeah, absolutely.
Um, so domestic content modules.
Again, I can't emphasize thisenough. Tim, the customer has to
ask a lot of questions, whereare these components coming
from? How are they classified asdomestic? Whether it's the
frame, whether it's the cell,whether it's the back sheet,
encapsulant, the glass, the potand the J box, you know, get,
(22:23):
you know, push, push. Thatmanufacturer. You have every
right to inquire about thesource of these components to
ensure that they're going tomeet the the domestic content
requirement. You know, make surethat everything lines up. And if
you're not, if you're notcertain, if you're not
comfortable, if they're notgiving you information, that
(22:44):
makes you feel confident thatthey're going to be there. You
might want to shop around. Youmight want to look elsewhere.
Okay, you know, Imperial Star.
You know, like I said, I can'tgo into the confidential
details, but we're doing thenecessary steps. We're doing
more than the necessary stepsright now to make our customers
feel comfortable knowing thatwhat domestic content components
(23:05):
are being used are, in fact,certified that they are being
originating from the US. And youknow, as I said again, our two
gigawatt factory is going to beexpanding, and at our Houston
facility, that's exciting.
Speaking of Houston, I'm goingto be at the RE plus Texas
(23:28):
event, which is coming up inMay. It's going to run from May
13 and the 14th out in Houston,Texas. Come find me. Another way
to find me is on LinkedIn. Go toImperial, star, solar on
LinkedIn, follow us on LinkedInand look me up, and you can
direct message me there. I'dlove to have a conversation with
you guys.
Unknown (23:50):
Excellent. Alright, plus Texas may 13 and 14, I'll
make sure that's on our website,at Clean Power hour.com, and of
course, you'll be at Vegas also,I assume in
Chris Lettman (24:05):
September. Yeah, yep, the flagship event of all
events this year will be, will,will be out there in full force.
We're going to have, you know,I'm here at our sales and
marketing office in Irvine,California. And then, of course,
we have our employees workingout of our Houston factory, in
house sales, and our seniorleadership will be there. That's
(24:29):
that's the other thing too. Iwant to talk about on the
domestic content side. Keep inmind Tim that all of the
Imperial Star employees werelocally based here in the US. So
while we have our factory herein Houston, Texas, you know, not
all companies have all the maindecision makers here locally,
and that makes a difference,because, yeah, you can find
(24:52):
different modules out there inthe in the US market and
domestic content, if that's whatyou're seeking. But there might
be some lag time in. Gettinganswers and getting updates on
your shipment, or gettingconfirmation on whether a PO has
been accepted or whatnot. We'reall based here in the US,
whether we're in the CentralTime Zone or the Pacific Time
(25:13):
Zone. Here in California, you'regoing to get a response. You're
going to get me, you're going toget someone that I report to.
You're going to get a you'regoing to get a quick response.
Unknown (25:24):
I would also encourage our listeners to check out the
about page. You see the Kiwapvel logo there. The module,
their module reliabilityscorecard is one of my favorite
ways of really kicking the tireson PV products and but many
other certifications, ISO UL,State of California, etc. Are
(25:47):
there other regional shows whereyou're going to be Chris this
year?
Chris Lettman (25:51):
Right now, as I mentioned, May for re plus
Houston, September for the bigRa plus in Las Vegas. They I
update and we update on ourwebsite. You know, if you follow
Imperial Star Solar on LinkedIn,you're going to be able to get
our monthly newsletter where weupdate, you know, changes to the
(26:15):
market, changes to to our ourcompany, updates on our company,
but also where we're going to beat, you know, I'll be speaking
at PV module tech up in Napa,California in June. That's a
smaller, that's more of aconference seminar. So not, not
as widely attended as some ofthe RE plus events, but a very,
(26:37):
very important conference, ifyou are on the procurement side,
technology side of solar, we getreally into the weeds when, when
we're up there at the PV moduletech
Unknown (26:49):
yeah, I've never been to that show or event. I've
heard of it, and it is asmaller, but more technical
conference, so people to checkthat out as well. And who
doesn't want to go to Napa? Uh,sounds like a lovely setting in
in June, yeah. All right, well,um, check out all of our content
at Clean Power hour.com Pleasegive us a rating and a review on
(27:12):
Apple or Spotify. Follow us onYouTube, reach out to me on
LinkedIn. I love hearing from mylisteners. And I also will be at
re plus Vegas. I will not be atTexas, unfortunately, but
they'll there are three eventsin Chicago that I will be at.
That is the Midwest solar Expoin June, then the solar farm
(27:33):
summit, I think that is inAugust, and then Midwest re plus
Midwest in October. So we havethree robust conferences in
Chicago, and of course, I willbe at Vegas. So hope to see you,
Chris, of course, in Vegas, andmaybe I'll get to do a visit to
(27:53):
your factory in Houston. I wouldreally like to do that. We'd
Chris Lettman (27:56):
love to have you come out, Tim, and that is an
open invitation for you. Thankyou
Unknown (28:01):
so much, Chris, okay, my friend. Repeat once again.
How can our listeners find youon LinkedIn? Yeah. Chris
Chris Lettman (28:07):
letman, at LinkedIn, under Imperial, star,
solar, just go to the main page.
You'll see me as one of theemployees there. US sales, my
name. Reach out, connect, followus on LinkedIn. Sign up for the
newsletter, and you'll get moreinformation that I provided here
today on on the podcast.
Unknown (28:26):
All right, with that, I'll say I'm Tim Montague, let's
grow solar and storage. Thanksso much. Chris letman, Thanks,
Tim. You.
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