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July 10, 2025 36 mins

What if the only thing coming out of your exhaust pipe was a few drops of water? That’s the vision behind hydrogen fuel––and its biggest champions are already making it reality in BC. 

Hydrogen is a promising alternative fuel, but public skepticism and safety concerns are slowing down adoption. Are these concerns warranted, or is misinformation getting in the way of progress? 

On this episode of Cleantech Forward, host Jeanette Jackson  explores how hydrogen fits into BC’s clean energy future––what’s working now, what’s holding us back, and what it will take to get more hydrogen vehicles on the road. Foresight’s, Alyssa Kelly, joins us to talk about how hydrogen is being tried and tested in the cleantech ecosystem, and Norm Barmeier from HTEC shares his passion for hydrogen’s potential and how his company is leading efforts to scale hydrogen fuel infrastructure and technology across BC, and the rest of Canada.

Relevant Reports

Hydrogen Transportation and Infrastructure Report 

Further Reading

Envisioning a Hydrogen Hub in Northeast BC

Envisioning a Hydrogen Hub in the Lower Mainland

Metro Vancouver Hydrogen Ecosystem Report

About the Guests


Norm Barmeier


Norm Barmeier has 25 years of diverse industrial experience in pharmaceutical, biofuels, and municipal infrastructure. With over a decade working on hydrogen systems, Norm has developed a strong skill set in complex system integration, technical project execution, permitting, and successful cross-discipline team building.


As the Director of Compliance and Design Authority at HTEC, he is responsible for overseeing multidisciplinary teams to design, permit, and commission ever-expanding hydrogen fuelling infrastructure across Canada. Norm enjoys stakeholder engagement, project risk management, driving quality assurance initiatives, and the challenge of working with municipalities and authorities having jurisdiction to get our projects permitted and operational.


Alyssa Kelly


Alyssa Kelly is a seasoned professional with extensive experience driving research initiatives in the sustainability and cleantech sectors. As the Director of Research at Foresight Canada, Alyssa leads a dynamic team dedicated to advancing clean technology adoption and nurturing vibrant cleantech ecosystems. With expertise in qualitative and quantitative research, engagement, and project management, Alyssa is passionate about mobilizing cleantech and sustainability knowledge to create a brighter, cleaner future. Before joining Foresight, she led research and advisory efforts at Partners in Project Green and Echion Group and holds a Master’s degree in Environmental Science from the University of Toronto.


About Foresight Canada


​​Foresight Canada helps the world do more with less, sustainably. As Canada's largest cleantech innovation and adoption accelerator, we connect public and private sectors to the world’s best clean technologies, de-risking and simplifying the adoption of innovative solutions that improve productivity, profitability, and economic competitiveness, all while addressing today’s most urgent climate challenges. 


We don’t just accelerate innovation. We are innovation. From humble roots in Vancouver, Canada, Foresight has rapidly scaled into a national, globally connected non-profit, driving the adoption of sustainable innovation in major industries worldwide, working with 200+ industry partners and actively engaging with 145+ federal, provincial, and municipal governments, and Indigenous rights holders.


Since 2013, Foresight has supported 1580+ ventures, 150+ industry partners, and 300+ investor firms to deploy $2.31B in capital, achieve $570M in revenues, and create 9,430+ high-paying jobs. Our domestic and internat

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
think a really cool thing is that NASA uses liquid hydrogen as rocket fuel and they'veused it for, you know, since the 60s.
It's not technically that new of a concept using liquid hydrogen as a fuel.
It's just new as a widely used fuel.
So if they can make it work sending a rocket into space, then I think we could do it hereon Earth.

(00:33):
Hydrogen is a promising alternative fuel that could help decarbonize transportation in BC.
But public skepticism
and safety concerns are slowing down adoption.
Are these concerns warranted or is misinformation getting in the way of progress?
With the right applications, knowledge and momentum, hydrogen will help us reduce ourreliance on fossil fuels.

(00:57):
But we've got a few hurdles to overcome to get there.
I'm Jeanette Jackson, CEO of Foresight Canada and your host of Clean Tech Forward.
On today's episode...
We're talking to experts about how hydrogen fits into BC's clean energy future, what worksnow, what's holding us back, and what it will take to scale adoption.

(01:17):
That's all coming up in just a moment.
Welcome to Clean Tech Forward.
This season, we're exploring the challenges, opportunities and real-world solutionsshaping the future of British Columbia's clean transportation.
Join us as we talk to leaders and innovators working to accelerate BC's path to a net-zeroeconomy.

(01:41):
One that benefits people, planet and profits.
From electric buses and tugboats to alternative fuels and shared infrastructure, buckleup.
for an electrifying ride into the future.
Powered by Foresight Canada's BC Net Zero Innovation Network.
At Foresight Canada, we help the world do more with less sustainably.

(02:03):
The BC Net Zero Innovation Network is a first of its kind ecosystem platform thataccelerates the adoption of clean technologies throughout BC's top industries.
Clean air, clean water, clean transportation.
And Net Zero economy starts here.
Hydrogen isn't new.

(02:25):
It's been used for over a hundred years and today it's a promising alternative fuel in thepush towards carbon neutrality.
But like any new clean tech, the promise of hydrogen does not come without its challenges.
Someone who's familiar with this delicate dance is Alyssa Kelly.
She's the director of research at Foresight and sees firsthand what's being tried andtested in the clean tech ecosystem.

(02:51):
including hydrogen.
I'm really excited about our conversation today because it's with a very own Foresightteam member, Alyssa Kelly, who is our Director of Everything Research, which the team does
a lot of work on and Alyssa heads up that team.
Thanks Jeanette.
So a bit about the research that we do at Foresight.

(03:14):
It ultimately comes from our experience as an accelerator, so...
You know, we have this deep knowledge of the clean tech ecosystem from our closeinteraction with ventures and private and public sector end users across the country from
our years of working.
And from that, we know their strengths and their needs and, you know, the how and the whybehind the challenges and opportunities in clean tech.

(03:36):
So the research that we specialize in typically contributes this, what we say isfoundational clean tech sector knowledge to the ecosystem, ultimately with the goal of
driving and breaking down barriers to.
technology adoption.
let's dig in with a specific fuel like hydrogen, so an alternative fuel, but it has facedsome skepticism from the public and industry despite proven benefits.

(03:58):
Why do you think that is?
So I think there are a lot of factors to this.
There's a lot of misconceptions about hydrogen.
It can be a complex subject to fully understand and there's a lot of nuances to it.
You know, when we're talking about hydrogen, we're not advocating for an entire worldbased on hydrogen.
We're advocating for hydrogen to be a tool in the toolbox of a low carbon or decarbonizedsociety.

(04:21):
And so when you think about what that actually means, if we want to move away from fossilfuels, because obviously they release CO2 emissions when combusted, which are greenhouse
gases, and too many greenhouse gases cause climate change.
But there's other benefits as well to moving away from fossil fuels that I think peopletend to forget about.
besides just the impact on the climate.

(04:42):
you if you were to say looking at using hydrogen in a fuel cell electric vehicle, the onlyexhaust that comes out is water.
Fuel cell EVs are also much quieter than a traditional internal combustion engine too.
So hypothetically, if we were imagining a low carbon city in the future that only useshydrogen or other low carbon transportation technologies.

(05:03):
and what that would actually look like.
You know, it would be much cleaner.
It would be quieter.
It would be really impactful on human health as well.
I think a really cool thing is that NASA uses liquid hydrogen as rocket fuel, and they'veused it for, you know, since the 60s.
It's not technically that new of a concept, using liquid hydrogen as a fuel.
It's just new as a widely used fuel.

(05:25):
So if they can make it work, sending a rocket into space, then I think we could do it hereon Earth.
Six, five.
The benefits of hydrogen are compelling, but questions around safety, cost, andinfrastructure are still slowing progress.

(05:48):
Is it safe?
Is it viable?
Is it going to solve all our problems?
The answers, like many in the clean transportation space, are nuanced.
One of the biggest misconceptions I think that is contributing to this is around safety.
So people still use that dreaded...
Hindenburg line, which I'm sorry for even repeating now, you know, that it's highlyexplosive, which it is, but I don't think people realize how commonly hydrogen is already

(06:15):
used, know, produced, transported and so on and so forth already today for industrialpurposes.
So we do know how to handle it and transport it safely.
Another way that people are sort of, I guess, skeptical about hydrogen is that it can beseen as greenwashing.
I think people are...
are unsure about the actual environmental and climate impact of hydrogen for its use as afuel.

(06:38):
And I think they think it can be a distraction from investment in renewable energy andelectrification.
There's also some challenges that come to using hydrogen as a transport fuel.
So for example, infrastructure that's needed is not common.
We don't have ubiquitous hydrogen fueling stations everywhere.
Producing low carbon hydrogen can be energy intensive and costly as well.

(06:59):
And this can make ROI uncertain and create some hesitancy from investors and people whoare potentially considering it.
What I can say is ultimately there are benefits to hydrogen's use as an energy carrier ora fuel.
It can make sense as a complementary technology to electrification in the transportsector, but the feasibility and economics and...

(07:20):
and rationale for its use in one region and in one certain situation might not make sensefor another region or another industry.
So it's really not a one size fits all solution.
And so when it comes to skepticism, I think that that can be healthy because it's not thesolution for everything, right?
Like we should question things and whether they're effective, but I think people miss thepoint that it is very nuanced and there's a lot of factors to consider.

(07:43):
And it's just one tool in our decarbonization toolbox.
You know, it's not going to solve everything.
but it can play a role and it's okay for us to have a suite of solutions that aren'tperfect on their own.
Hydrogen might not solve everything, but it is a vital piece of the clean transportationpuzzle.
A BC based company called HTEC is working to address some of the misconceptions andbarriers preventing us from experiencing hydrogen's full potential.

(08:12):
Norm Barmeier, HTEC's Director of Compliance and Design Authority.
is leading efforts to make hydrogen fuel solutions both real and reliable.
I certainly look forward to the opportunity to share my passion for hydrogen and the workthat we're doing.
Specifically, my role at HTEC as the Director of Compliance is to oversee all thedifferent requirements that come into play from a regulatory perspective, from a technical

(08:36):
perspective, and then from a risk and safety perspective.
That's so exciting.
It's great to see that HTEC's allocated resources to work with customers.
on making sure that everything's meeting all those regulatory requirements.
We want to help the municipalities and help the regulators also feel safe about ourtechnology.
And so we're there helping them introduce this new tech into their communities.

(09:00):
HTEC is a pioneer in driving hydrogen technology forward in BC.
It builds clean hydrogen production facilities and critical infrastructure like fuelingand distribution centers.
It also helps transition medium and heavy duty fleets to hydrogen fueled power.
We built the very first station on Granville and 71st, which was actually the very firstgas station in BC.

(09:24):
We partnered with Shell and we ended up building the very first hydrogen station in thecountry on that site, right?
And as soon as we built that station and opened it up, you know, the OEMs, Toyota put carson the road.
So that's that first sort of partnership where we see us and the car suppliers comingtogether.
Now we have seven stations open to the public, right?

(09:45):
So it's gotten a momentum in the sense that we've made it real and we now have hundreds ofvehicles on the street that we support.
And we are currently in construction on our first proper heavy duty station at Tawson withthe Tawson First Nation.
So we're really proud about that and we've opened our first production facility.
So we've got this ecosystem going now where we produce, we distribute, we sell, and wehave vehicles on the road.

(10:10):
Norm and the H-Tech team are taking education seriously, recognizing that a significantchallenge of getting more vehicles on the road involves educating the public about how
hydrogen fuel works and addressing misconceptions.
When we think about alternatives like hydrogen,
What type of skepticism is being faced from the public and how do you overcome that withthe benefits?

(10:38):
Well, think part of it is, uh there's still a lot of educating that we need to do.
When people talk about a battery electric vehicle or a fuel cell electric vehicle, they'realmost identical.
In one case, the electrons are coming from a battery and the other case, the electrons arecoming from hydrogen, right?
And that's really it.
The drivetrain is the same, the vehicle is the same.
And the upside is that

(10:59):
We're trying to create a customer experience that's similar to the conventional fuelingexperience.
You you pull up to a dispenser, maybe you spend three or four minutes there filling upyour car and then you leave and you're on your way.
Our vehicles perform the same way that a conventional vehicle does.
And I think folks just need to see that, see more of that and understand that it's a veryavailable option.

(11:19):
It's a safe technology.
It's been around for over a hundred years.
There's well-established codes and standards in the regulatory space.
The fuel cell vehicles are on the road.
We have hundreds of them out there.
people driving them today, and they have been since 2018, they're very modern and normallooking vehicles, right?
And they're quiet, they don't produce any sound.
So they reduce, you your stress when you're driving.

(11:42):
And the only thing coming out of the tailpipe is water.
You know, it couldn't be any cleaner.
It's the purest form of energy.
I love it.
It's such a beautiful molecule.
You know, it's a simple pure molecule that we borrow.
We literally just borrow it and then we give it back.
I don't know, I can't say enough about how beautiful I think that energy cycle is,hydrogen energy cycle and how clean it is.

(12:04):
Despite Norm's confidence, there is still work to be done in building public trust inhydrogen.
That's why he's going the extra kilometre, filling information gaps and building awarenesswith support from Forsyte's BC Net Zero Innovation Network.
I can't underestimate even from our broader clean tech perspective the amount of...

(12:25):
effort that goes into messaging the benefits of new technologies and what's possible andavailable today, not 10 years, but today to really drive productivity, drive
sustainability, and drive competitiveness of our industry and our infrastructure.
But you're taking a lead on that with, you know, the hydrogen safety and awarenesscampaign.

(12:45):
People need to see proof of concept.
They need to see the thing happening in the real world.
And that's what we're doing, right?
And
Sure, we've faced challenges.
There's skepticism at every level.
And so that's been our job is to pioneer in that space, right?
And create a functioning hydrogen ecosystem in BC as an example of how it can be done.
One of the key things is, you know, we're subject matter experts when it comes to thetechnology.

(13:08):
We understand that piece, but translating that to a digestible curriculum or digestiblematerial that we can share, that's key.
We hope to be messengers of a really tangible, practical solution that we have in placeand that's real.
And getting support in that space is invaluable.
Yeah, every technology pathway, whether we like it or not, starts with some level ofskepticism, right?

(13:30):
Like, who would have thought?
we'd have satellites who would have thought we had the basic cell phone.
So, you know, all those big companies started with a vision and it came with skepticismand now, you know, some of the leading companies globally, right?
Well, I mean, we're such a passionate group.
We're like, let's just make it.
Let's just make it happen.
Let's just do it.
Let's just go all in on this.

(13:50):
Right.
And it totally worked.
Like, I'm so proud of what we've done, honestly.
Exciting things are happening in BC to demonstrate and support the viability of hydrogenas an alternative fuel.
Norm believes a key to hydrogen's progress is focusing on nurturing the entire ecosystem,including fuel supply, infrastructure and technology.

(14:14):
We believe firmly in the ecosystem model.
So we're not only building stations.
We're partnering with the vehicle OEMs to bring cars on as we open stations.
We have our own distribution network from our own production facilities that's making ourhydrogen and we're now leaning into heavy duty fleet leasing programs.
So we own and maintain fleet vehicles or heavy duty trucks for fleet operators to leasefrom us.

(14:40):
And it's really key that those trucks get on the road and people see them.
You know, they're...
They're badged with hydrogen and H-Tech logos.
And I think more people need to see these heavy duty trucks in action on the road.
And that'll help gain some confidence in that mobilization.
We have a bunch of stations in different stages of design.
We're working with municipalities on the island to expand our network over there,including production.

(15:03):
We're looking to move north into Northern BC and across into the interior to build anotherstation out there for some redundancy.
We're looking into the liquid side, you know, there's hydrogen gas, but there's alsoliquefied hydrogen.
And that's another opportunity for more dense storage and a bit more economy of scale.
So yeah, there's lots of work ahead and we've got our kind of eyes on all of it, right?

(15:25):
We're trying to see how to stay ahead.
You can be an individual solving an individual problem or you can be the collaborator, theconnector that brings everyone together to solve a bigger problem and more people win.
It's more effort to get it going, but it also, think, has a much greater ripple effect,exponential growth and opportunity for more stakeholders when you take an ecosystem

(15:47):
approach.
Yeah, 100%.
And the ecosystem approach offers us insight into lots of data on full
life cycle, right?
So we collect that data and we learn, we know where our hot spots are, we know where weneed to like spend more time and energy.
It's a beautiful thing to have that full ecosystem and have all the eyes and ears on it.
It puts us in a really strong position.

(16:08):
when we think about, you know, the future outlook for hydrogen and clean fuelalternatives, what steps need to happen to mainstream alternative fuels in BC to really,
you know, go at scale?
You know, I think the work that we're doing with you in terms of getting material outthere and marketing this and sharing our learnings is super valuable.

(16:32):
We need to make really technical stuff digestible for more people, right?
That's one piece.
In terms of like, you know, boots on the ground initiatives, our heavy duty trucks need toget on the road and people need to see them.
And the fleet operators need to just realize how awesome these trucks are, you know?
They're super strong, they're quiet.
Imagine driving down the road, you don't smell any smells, you don't hear anything.

(16:54):
You you got these heavy duty trucks passing through your neighborhood in a silent way.
So I'd firmly believe getting more vehicles on the road is a key and visibility of thosetrucks.
We need to work with the light duty OEMs to bring some, you know, to be frank, some sexiercars onto the road.
There's lots of really cool cars being developed.
BMW has a nice uh SUV that they're bringing out to the market in Europe.

(17:17):
that we hopefully will get our hands on in a year or two.
Hyundai's got some really nice options, including pickup trucks, Toyota, Honda, they'reall putting big money into this.
I mean, that's a telling piece, right?
If these global car manufacturers are actually building them and putting them out into thestreets, that tells us a lot.
And we want those vehicles to come here.
So we need those hurdles removed and we need to...

(17:39):
continue to build more stations and infrastructure so that they feel comfortable bringingthe vehicles to market so that they know that their customers are supported and
well-served.
So it's that very integrated relationship.
yeah, any hurdles we can remove to make that happen, we welcome that.
While Norman and his team are educating the public and building BC's hydrogen ecosystem,Alyssa and the Foresight Research Team are focused on shaping strategy.

(18:08):
identifying how co-locating supply and demand through regional hydrogen hubs can drivescale, accelerate adoption, reduce costs and unlock local opportunities.
So we're running programs and doing research and obviously a lot of the work that we'redoing is breaking out into more bespoke or specific problems.

(18:31):
focused activity, which is part of the BC Semple Hydrogen Hub study focused on co-locatingsupply and demand.
Do you want to sort of explain some of the opportunities that are possible with that planand that strategy?
Yeah, absolutely.
So, you know, co-locating supply and demand in a hub model is a strategy that's sort ofpretty commonly accepted across the globe as a method for advancing hydrogen economies to

(18:57):
try and
overcome these, I guess you could say chicken and egg scenarios where both supply anddemand of hydrogen need to grow.
And there needs to be investment in both, but one needs the other to move forward in orderto be considered viable.
So it's sort of, you get locked in this stalemate of sorts.
the rationale is that co-locating hydrogen production and end use together, you can createa balanced market, lower infrastructure and transportation costs.

(19:23):
hopefully optimize the use of resources and then it also just stimulates the local economywhere it is.
So the BC government noted this model within the hydrogen strategy of 2021 and the CleanEnergy and Major Projects Office, the SEMPO, is working to implement this in partnership
with Foresight.
So we're looking at the potential for hubs in four different regions across the province.

(19:45):
We've completed the studies on the lower mainland and the northeast and we're currentlydoing these studies on Vancouver Island and the interior.
So looking at both the Okanagan and the Kootenays regions.
Forsyte's research shows that hydrogen isn't just promising for decarbonizing land-basedtransportation, it also holds potential on the water.

(20:05):
Hydrogen is particularly well suited for powering BC's ports, where it's already beingproduced and transported, making them ideal hubs for both supply and demand.
And in other parts of the province,
existing natural gas infrastructure could be repurposed to support hydrogen distribution,creating even more opportunities for regional adoption.

(20:30):
So for the Lower Mainland, uh producing green hydrogen, so hydrogen produced from waterthrough electrolysis and pyrolysis, which is also commonly known as turquoise hydrogen,
make the most sense from a supply perspective for those regions.
And in terms of demand, you we had the presence of the Port of Vancouver.
Leveraging hydrogen for shipping and port operations is a key opportunity that weidentified there.

(20:54):
uh Ports globally seem to be really key drivers of uh hydrogen development.
If you look at places like, uh you know, the Netherlands and the port of Rotterdam, forexample, having ports involved is really critical.
So that's key opportunity identified there.
For the Northeast, I would say the abundance of natural gas favors natural gas as afeedstock.

(21:15):
In addition to that, there's also the geology potential for
carbon capture and storage there too.
There was another study done by the BC government recently that indicated that.
So producing what we would call blue hydrogen, which is matching hydrogen produced fromnatural gas with captured CO2 to make it low carbon is also a possibility.

(21:35):
And then the existing gas industry in the Northeast means there's also existinginfrastructure that could be leveraged too.
So pipelines potentially, and the workforce likely has a lot of relevant skills that couldbe built upon too.
uh
I like that you touched on sort of the workforce development because the reality isadoption comes not when the decision maker makes a decision, but when the rest of the team

(21:56):
within these large institutions, corporates and communities are getting more comfortablewith new technologies or in this case, a new fuel supply, right?
And I also think it's interesting, I'm not sure if people are aware, but I think thecurrent potential is that 15 % of natural gas infrastructure can...
host hydrogen, I know the numbers are fluctuating and it's still a work in progress interms of the research and where it'll take us, but to not have to build new

(22:23):
infrastructure, you know, to move around a cleaner fuel is definitely more important foradoption.
And the presence of infrastructure as well, like even if it's, you know, you still have tobuild a new pipeline, just the fact that it's there and the communities are accepting of
it and they're used to it is an advantage as well.
Whatever the fuel source.
Scaling clean tech takes collaboration from policymakers, industry and investors toinnovators, academia and municipalities.

(22:54):
Forsyte's Helix 5 model brings all those players to the table, helping drive smarterdecisions and faster adoption.
I know in our work you're doing a lot around ecosystem development around these technologypathways and ah it's not only about education and technology but
How do we get people to work together to collaborate, to move forward faster?

(23:16):
Collaboration is key and we say that all the time at Foresight.
uh When you talk about any given clean tech adoption barrier, it's really multifaceted andit's often you need the input of more than one or even two groups.
So bringing the ecosystem together and that's the whole Helix five.
you're including First Nations and government and industry and innovators and researchersand academia and so on together to work collaboratively on overcoming barriers really

(23:44):
brings all the perspectives needed to the table to be able to efficiently look at anygiven issue and understand the nuances of how a solution might affect every single group
in a different way or overcome a barrier that's affecting different groups in the sameway.
Something I think it's important to clarify for the audience is what is the Helix 5?

(24:06):
And it's a unique term to foresight where we talk about the role that differentstakeholders play in supporting innovation.
So you've got the innovators themselves at the center of the Helix and then around thatyou have other key stakeholders.
That's industry, government, capital and academia.
Each of them play a very key role.

(24:28):
Industry in terms of adoption.
capital in terms of funding the innovation, government in terms of making sure that policyand regulatory environments are progressive to drive the adoption of innovation, and of
course academia who not only supply talent, but they help make sure that we can vet andvalidate where innovation is going from a research lens.

(24:49):
And hopefully through that convening we can, like you said, come up with solutions and getthat investment, you know, going.
And even people that may be across different party lines or
you know, be a little more laggard in sort of that clean transportation developmentpathway.
We can bring them along, right, when there's leadership and models of success and workingtogether.

(25:12):
Thinking about scaling up the deployment in BC as well, are there, you know, one or tworeally strategic or unique things, activities that we could do or that need to be done to
help with that?
You know, ultimately,
The economics are key areas of concern and for low carbon fuels to be able to compete withfossil fuels, there needs to be policy support.

(25:34):
So incentives, pollution pricing, project funding, so on.
um currently it's a time of political flux and this is a contentious issue at the moment.
So in terms of direct next steps, I suppose it's quite hard to say and it'll depend on theoutcomes of some of these political changes, but
this market support is needed to get these off the ground.

(25:56):
think it's really important to know if we can get some of these policy pieces right.
It's not just good for the hydrogen sector, it's good for other sectors as well that aregoing through evolutionary.
You how quickly can we update policies in regulatory environments?
It affects building green buildings.
how we clean and move fresh water, how we build new energy infrastructure, how we makesure all the right stakeholders are at the table while all these projects are being

(26:22):
deployed.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's not just innovation and technology, it's innovation and permitting and regulatoryprocesses and, you know, all the things that I tap out on.
In order to get those policy and regulatory pieces right,
It all comes back to everyone on the value chain being properly informed about how thetechnology works and the roles they can play in its adoption.

(26:51):
there specific things that municipal governments can do?
I know we've done sort of a Metro Vancouver report as well in terms of supply and demandmapping and where we could maybe have some hydrogen hubs and things like that.
What can municipalities and small businesses do as well?
Yeah, so I think, you know, at a minimum, making sure everyone understands the hydrogenbasics is really important so that, you know, when you come into conversations, when

(27:14):
you're out in the network, you can come prepared and able to communicate at a levelplaying field.
Forsyth's YouTube channel has some hydrogen-focused educational webinars on there thatpeople can check out.
I know the Canadian Hydrogen Association also has a lot of great resources, so preparingyourself and making sure you understand the basics is really important.

(27:35):
And then just getting out there in the network, attending events, conferences, workshops,roundtable discussions, and other networking opportunities to learn from and meet other
players in the sector to get involved is really important.
And it comes down to, through that, learning what role your group plays in acceleratingthe hydrogen economy and learning what actions from your groups, whether you're a

(27:56):
municipality or a small business, what's needed from you.
And so, as you mentioned, we do have our hub reports.
They have specific recommendations for each group with respect to all areas of hubdevelopment.
So I'd encourage those interested to check them out.
You know, there's things like establishing a regulatory task force between severaldifferent groups to be able to sort out these regulatory barriers.

(28:19):
For innovators like Norm, getting the policy language right is essential for hydrogensuccess.
So on a municipal level, you know,
Most municipalities have some kind of official community plan and we tend to study thoseso we understand where the community mindset is on climate initiatives, right?
And, you know, updating those official community plans to include language like hydrogenwould be helpful.

(28:44):
When it gets a bit more boots on the ground, the development phase of the project and...
For gas stations, you know, there's a land use designation and it talks about gasoline, ittalks about diesel, it talks about propane, it might even talk about natural gas, but it
doesn't talk about hydrogen.
And the staff at the planning level, they only can work within the letter of the law.

(29:07):
So what's written in their bylaws is what they have to abide by.
And if hydrogen doesn't find its way in there, then we run into a lot of negotiation, alot of educating.
And it's okay, we don't mind doing it, we're happy to do it.
But if the municipalities could update their local planning bylaws and their land usedesignation to include some discussion around hydrogen, it would make it so much easier

(29:32):
for us to get through that first development stage, because it can take up to a year.
At the provincial level, they've definitely come to the party.
You know, they've updated their codes and standards to include hydrogen.
So we've got a much more reliable framework there.
And that takes risk out of the equation for us because now we know the rules so we canplay within the rules.
And that's certainly an uh improvement.

(29:53):
Norm and his team are also ready to welcome private fleets to the promising world ofhydrogen fuel.
When we talk about the businesses, honestly, I think that
There's two things, one, they need to educate themselves and we have certainly the abilityto offer all kinds of services there, fleet transition plans.
We can work with businesses so they understand the nuts and bolts and costs associatedwith doing that fleet transitioning.

(30:18):
But I also think that we're demonstrating that it works, you know, and we invitebusinesses to come and talk to us about that.
Like it is an absolutely viable technology.
It's being rolled out across the planet.
and I think businesses just need to take a serious look at hydrogen as an option becauseit's a viable option, absolutely.
It's clear there's a lot of work being done behind the scenes to push hydrogen adoptionforward.

(30:43):
But what happens next?
Forsyte's research reports offer a snapshot into the future.
You know that I'm really excited about it is our venture to value chain reports because ittakes...
It's almost like a summary of all the different technology providers that we've workedwith or we've made connections with through different events and initiatives.
Maybe you can tell us a little bit about these reports and uh what trends industry mightwant to be watching now or in the future.

(31:10):
We're seeing that BC continues to lead the country in hydrogen technologies.
So, you know, this is also our largest category across the value chain.
So when you look at BC's transportation value chain.
specifically hydrogen is definitely the area where we have the most technologies and themost concentration of innovation happening.
So this report's going to be launched this spring.

(31:31):
So we're looking at around a May timeline and hydrogen is later this year.
So we'll be able to find some more concrete outcomes for the hydrogen one as we continueto develop the database and do the analysis on that one.
We're also producing a series of
sector export studies for BC, looking at our BC Net Zero Innovation Network cluster areas.

(31:54):
So the transportation sector export study is currently in development.
And what we're seeing is that there's growing potential international opportunities forBC's hydrogen and fuel cell expertise in markets like Germany, Singapore, South Korea, and
the UK, plus more.
And we expand on what these opportunities are as well as

(32:15):
provide some tips for ventures on market entry, you know, in general, but also specific tothese markets within the report.
So if any venture is looking for support on how to start exporting, please stay tuned toour channels.
VC's leadership in the hydrogen space could set a powerful example for internationalmarkets, helping to spread clean tech across the globe.

(32:39):
Meanwhile, Norm and the H-Tech team
continue to focus on strengthening our hydrogen ecosystem here at home with hopes ofexporting their proven approach across Canada.
If we can make it work in BC, we can make it work in Alberta, we can make it work inSaskatchewan, we can make it work in Manitoba, you know, we can scale up.
We need to demonstrate that what we're doing works.

(33:00):
We are doing that.
It is working.
And so we just need players to come to the table, partners to come to the table.
the balance of the community to come to the table.
And by community, I mean the whole country.
Everyone needs to be on board and talk to your MPs, talk to your municipal councillors andhave the conversation, hey, what can we do in this place?

(33:21):
You know, we support what HTEC is doing.
Why don't we lower some hurdles in our province, in our city?
I think that should be the message.
We have something really good to offer.
We have a really good solution to offer.
I think we're going to make the planet better.
Thank you to our guests.
Norm Barma.
from HTEC and Alyssa Kelly, Director of Research here at Foresight, for sharing their deepknowledge about hydrogen's potential as an alternative fuel.

(33:45):
In BC, we are so fortunate to have an organization like HTEC who's willing to lead thecharge, literally, with hydrogen as the path to decarbonize our transportation.
It's incredible.
A transition like this is an economic opportunity that everyone can learn to benefit from.
If I were to leave our listeners with a final aha moment for this episode, especially ifyou're someone with influence, funding, or passion to advance clean transportation, it's

(34:12):
this.
If knowledge gaps are keeping you from exploring alternative solutions, ask the questions.
Innovation starts with curiosity, and our future depends on innovative new pathways.
What is hydrogen?
How can it decarbonize my transportation?
And how can I start to look at adopting these solutions today?
The answers are out there.
and they just might open your eyes to new possibilities for a cleaner future.

(34:37):
That's it for this season of Clean Tech Forward.
Thanks for joining us.
Be sure to follow Foresight to keep up with our latest research, projects and programssupporting clean technology and a more sustainable future economy.
Clean Tech Forward is fueled by Foresight Canada's BC Net Zero Innovation Network, poweredby Pacific Economic Development Canada and the Government of British Columbia.

(35:04):
Learn more about how BC is driving the future of clean transportation at ForesightCAC.comslash British Columbia.

(35:27):
you
Clean Tech Forward is an everything podcasts production hosted by Jeanette Jackson andnarrated by me, Tamara Stanners.
Show runner and writer, Jessica Grechik.
Sound engineer, Jordan Wong.
Executive producer, Jennifer Smith.

(35:52):
Another Everything Podcast production.
Visit everythingpodcast.com, a division of Patterson Media.
Subscribe wherever you get your podcast.
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