June 26, 2025 • 42 mins
British Columbia’s mining and forestry sectors supply the raw materials needed to support a net zero economy. But when it comes to powering the fleets that carry these resources from pit to port or forest to mill, diesel still dominates––and electrifying them is anything but simple.
In this episode of Cleantech Forward, host Jeanette Jackson talks to the people doing the heavy lifting when it comes to decarbonizing transportation in BC’s foundational industries. Flyn McCarthy, mining industry advisor to Foresight’s BC Net Zero Innovation Network, shares how he’s helping mining companies go back to the industry’s electric roots. And Eric Little shares the inspiring story of how Edison Motors is reviving BC’s reputation for building cool trucks… but this time, they’re electric.
Relevant Reports
BC Cleantech Export Report: Mining
Canada’s Ventures to Value Chains: Mining Technology
Further Reading
https://foresightcac.com/mining-cluster
https://edisonmotors.ca/
About the Guests
Flyn McCarthy
Flyn McCarthy is a tireless champion of industrial decarbonization and has worked for the past 20 years on all aspects of industrial energy optimization and low carbon solutions. Current roles include Principal Energy and Carbon group at SysEne, Industry Advisor BC Net Zero Innovation Network and past roles include Corporate Energy & Carbon Manager Newmont/Goldcorp, Leader of the Canadian Mining Innovation Council - Energy Group, and technical advisor to hundreds of industrial operations globally. Flyn is motivated by the vast potential for carbon reduction in industry and sees the energy transition as a great opportunity to make a step change in industrial decarbonization.
Eric Little
Eric Little is the Chief Executive Officer of Edison Motors––a Canadian clean technology company that built Canada’s first production electric hybrid truck. Eric has overseen the development of Edison’s hybrid drivetrain, leads the company’s design and business strategy, and manages partnerships and fundraising. His technical and managerial leadership keeps the company on track to meet its innovation and production goals.
About Foresight Canada
Foresight Canada helps the world do more with less, sustainably. As Canada's largest cleantech innovation and adoption accelerator, we connect public and private sectors to the world’s best clean technologies, de-risking and simplifying the adoption of innovative solutions that improve productivity, profitability, and economic competitiveness, all while addressing today’s most urgent climate challenges.
We don’t just accelerate innovation. We are innovation. From humble roots in Vancouver, Canada, Foresight has rapidly scaled into a national, globally connected non-profit, driving the adoption of sustainable innovation in major industries worldwide, working with 200+ industry partners and actively engaging with 145+ federal, provincial, and municipal governments, and Indigenous rights holders.
Since 2013, Foresight has supported 1580+ ventures, 150+ industry partners, and 300+ investor firms to deploy $2.31B in capital, achieve $570M in revenues, and create 9,430+ high-paying jobs. Our domestic and international engagement includes working in collaboration with 2,000+ rights holders and partners.
In the world we’re building, sustainability isn't a buzzword. It’s a fundamental driver of economic growth and prosperity, for people and planet. Find out how we’re redefining acceleration at foresightcac.com, and join the conversation on LinkedIn.
Credits
Host: Jeanette Jackson
Narrator: Tamara Stanners
Guests: Flyn McCarthy, Eric Little
Executive Producer: Jennifer Smith
Sound Engineer: Jordan Wong
Showrunner / Writer: Jessica Grajczyk
Editors: Kylie Williams & Stacey Armstrong
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
So just one fun fact for you, energy density of diesel is significantly higher than theenergy density of batteries.
So if we're trying to electrify the fleets, the battery energy density challenge isreally, really significant on a mine site because utilization of equipment is so critical
to the success of a mining operation.
They need that equipment to move tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of tonsof material per day.
(00:36):
The BC's mining and forestry sector supply the materials needed for everything frombatteries to construction and export them around the world.
But when it comes to powering the fleets that carry these resources from pit to port orforest to mill, diesel still dominates and electrifying them is anything but simple.
The good news?
Innovators in BC are rolling up their sleeves to tackle this challenge and drive realchange.
(01:03):
I'm Jeanette Jackson, CEO of Foresight Canada.
and your host of Clean Tech Forward.
Our guests today are doing the heavy lifting when it comes to decarbonizing BC's resourcehauling fleets.
Join us as we explore some of the real world barriers and bold solutions reshapingtransportation in BC's mining and forestry sectors.
(01:23):
That's all coming up in just a moment.
Welcome to Clean Tech Forward.
This season, we're exploring the challenges, opportunities and real-world solutionsshaping the future of British Columbia's clean transportation.
Join us as we talk to leaders and innovators working to accelerate BC's path to a net-zeroeconomy.
(01:47):
One that benefits people, planet and profits.
From electric buses and tugboats to alternative fuels and shared infrastructure, buckleup.
for an electrifying ride into the future.
Powered by Foresight Canada's BC Net Zero Innovation Network.
At Foresight Canada, we help the world do more with less sustainably.
(02:09):
The BC Net Zero Innovation Network is a first of its kind ecosystem platform thataccelerates the adoption of clean technologies throughout BC's top industries.
Clean air, clean water, clean transportation.
And Net Zero economy starts here.
British Columbia's mining sector supplies the minerals that power the clean economy, likethe copper, nickel and silver used in EVs, batteries and solar panels, to the steel-making
(02:41):
coal used in wind turbines.
But extracting and transporting these resources takes a large amount of energy, and theshift from diesel-powered fleets and infrastructure to low-carbon solutions can be costly
and complex.
That's where smart people like Flynn McCarthy come in.
Flynn has dedicated his life's work to decarbonizing heavy industries.
(03:03):
And as an advisor to the BC Net Zero Innovation Network, he's helping mining companiestackle the tough realities of electrification, one heavy duty challenge at a time.
Really excited about our conversation today.
We're talking everything heavy metal, heavy emissions and the opportunities to decarbonizetransportation in BC's mining sector.
(03:27):
I'm here with an incredible guest and expert, Flynn McCarthy.
Thanks for having me, Janette.
Yeah, much appreciated.
I've been in decarbonization for heavy industry for about 20 years.
I started in upstream oil and gas and moved into mining in about 2010, where I was thelead carbon and energy manager for one of the world's largest gold mining companies.
And in that, I saw the great opportunity to decarbonize mining.
(03:50):
In terms of diesel burn, it's pretty significant, as we all know.
lots of heavy haul trucks that need to move millions of tons of ore and waste to be ableto make gold or other types of precious metals and non-precious metals to bring to market.
And since then, I've developed a consultancy around that.
So I lead the consultancy, Sysenia Consulting, where we focus on helping mining companiesto basically set those greenhouse gas reduction targets and then find meaningful pathways
(04:18):
to get there.
I love that.
So, you when you first started to see the opportunities around sustainability and mining,was there a personal motivation or something that really triggered that sort of transition
for you?
mean, I've always been focused on greenhouse gas reduction, just considering the climate.
That's why I started in oil and gas.
had the largest emissions.
(04:38):
But yeah, seeing the sort of interest from the mining companies and really the miningcompanies have taken a much more aggressive approach to greenhouse gas reduction.
They really are digging in.
putting their money where their mouth is too.
We're seeing quite a big sort of commitments from the industry as well as they're takingon some really big tough challenges to transition their industry which is actually much
(05:00):
harder than other industries to transition.
absolutely.
Well, we've been doing quite a bit of work on the BC Net Zero Innovation Network miningcluster which is all about decarbonizing the mining sector.
Let's sort of dig in to help the audience a little bit understand more about what thechallenges are.
Starting with why decarbonizing mobile equipment in BC's mining sector is such a criticalcomponent of meeting climate goals.
(05:25):
The group that we have includes all the mining companies in BC, and we've been able tosort of bring that to the table to say, okay, well, what can we really do for the mobile
fleet?
There's some pretty big energy use in that fleet.
It's massive.
It's almost more than all of the cars in BC.
in terms of amount of horsepower that's used in those fleets.
(05:46):
And they work 24-7 and 365.
That's the way we've been mining for a very long time now.
So trying to think about a different way to run that mobile fleet and all of thosedifferent pieces of equipment has been a bit of a daunting challenge just because it's
very ingrained.
There's just not really, it hasn't been challenged.
The diesel supremacy has been there for a while now.
(06:09):
And it's easy for people to keep doing the same thing.
Right?
Change is hard.
Change management is a big piece of it.
think spend more time on the change management piece than actually the introduction of newtechnologies because there's so many great solutions available.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
The risks are high and the risks in your body are high.
So traditionally miners have been very conservative in that regard.
(06:32):
They don't want to change too much of the way they mine because there's so many risks notknowing if there's actual metal in the ground.
They reduce the risk when it comes to operations.
Change is never easy.
But operators in BC's mining industry are embracing some cleaner alternatives such aselectric vehicles and lower carbon fuels.
(06:54):
Still, electrifying whole mobile fleets presents real physical challenges.
From remote site locations with extreme weather to limited on-site power and charginginfrastructure.
These are exactly the kinds of challenges
the BC Net Zero Innovation Network is tackling head on by bringing industry and innovatorstogether to overcome barriers and accelerate real world solutions.
(07:21):
BC has a lot of supply, but we don't have transmission lines to every mining operation.
They're in fairly remote locations.
So that's the macro level.
And then on the micro level, it's really how do those pieces of equipment integrate intothe site operations?
So just one fun fact for you.
energy density of diesel is significantly higher than the energy density of batteries.
(07:42):
So, if we're trying to electrify the fleets, the battery energy density challenge isreally, really significant on a mine site because utilization of equipment is so critical
to the success of a mining operation.
They need that equipment to move tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of tonsof material per day.
So, in order to achieve that, that energy density has to be there.
(08:04):
So, they have to...
essentially figure out ways to charge, you know, in every potential possible way, evendynamically when they're actually on the move.
Setting up a mine site has to be different too.
It isn't the same as a traditional diesel mine site because we don't fuel every shift, wefuel maybe every 15 minutes with those oil trucks or maybe even every load in and out of
(08:25):
the pit.
So that's the sort of micro level challenges is sort of what are those charginginfrastructure look like?
how do those pieces of equipment interact with the charging infrastructure?
When do the drivers take their breaks and things like that to ensure that we're optimizingcharge times and things like that.
So yeah, there's quite a few.
it's really an operational overhaul, reimagining the flow of all the people and supportsand processes, leveraging these new technologies and solutions.
(08:56):
Yeah.
And also
We're dealing with also remote mining operations in the north.
So there's 60 feet of snow sometimes that we've got to deal with.
So trying to figure out how to get that charging system so that it doesn't matter ifthere's 60 feet of snow.
You don't have to have somebody hand digging the charging station out every two hours tomake sure that it's available.
(09:17):
In some ways, it's looking at a whole different mix of technologies that you don'ttraditionally think of to move your materials.
And that can be also, you get all these different handling.
stations and you're adding complexity every time you add a new system.
It's no longer just one truck from the pit to the mill.
You're adding a whole bunch of new pieces to it.
So far what we've done is we've actually started with some of the ancillary stuff.
(09:40):
So things like the boom trucks and the trucks that takes the, know, basically the kind ofthey don't need to be working 24 seven 365.
We started there, the scoops and the shovels and the drills.
Those can all be electrified.
I wouldn't say easily.
There's still challenges with snow and trailing cables and things like that, but for themost part, those are where we're starting.
(10:01):
It's trying to get a handle on that, trying to understand.
Even just personnel carriers, to, the little pickup trucks that run around the site,trying to make sure that the operators and the foremen are charging them up so that the
next shift doesn't have a low battery.
There's actually logistical challenges there too.
Like every transportation sector making an effort to decarbonize, heavy hauling has itsunique challenges.
(10:23):
but it also has some promising solutions taking shape right here in BC.
Flynn gets to see firsthand what the mining industry is adopting, what's working, andwhat's helping the sector move forward.
Right now, battery electric vehicles, or BEVs, are leading the charge.
So most of the focus on currently is on the BEV side.
(10:45):
So there's some big name companies that have attempted hydrogen.
I believe it was
Well Fortescue had a focus on hydrogen just two years ago and then we were all surprisedto see they switched to BEVs last year during the mine expo.
So I think that there's been a fairly significant shift.
We've had some really good pilots of hydrogen, different operations and really, you know,trying to process it.
(11:10):
It just seemed like hydrogen has always been all of it behind the BEV sort of production.
And so we're seeing now a fairly significant BEV implementation.
We've got orders for
graders and loaders and scoops and a lot of different technologies that are just becomingreadily commercially available.
So that tech is sort of out there.
(11:31):
And I think what happens is that the site gets familiar with their, you know, theirbattery electric pickup trucks, and then they get more familiar with their battery
electric scoops.
And then they're more familiar with, know, it just sort of trickles on so that becoming anelectric fleet is lot easier to sort of manage.
I think that that's where the BEV fleet has really taken over.
um
(11:51):
just because it's fairly familiar on that basis.
And most of the sites that are large have grid connections or they'll have a largegeneration capacity.
they're fairly familiar with power and power handling, even in the pit operations andthings like that.
And I guess miners historically have used electricity.
you know, the first, the conveyors and the cable cars and the hoists that historically,or, you know, back in the 20s and 30s, was, mining was electric actually, so.
(12:19):
It even had electric locomotives for underground mining operations way back in the earlydays.
So maybe it's a renaissance of electric, if you will.
Electric technology is proving to be an encouraging fit for decarbonizing the miningindustry.
The good news is even more heavy duty electric equipment is becoming commerciallyavailable.
(12:42):
Fun fact, British Columbia has a rich history of heavy duty truck manufacturing.
that goes back to the 1940s.
While that legacy slowed in recent decades, we're starting to make a name for ourselvesagain.
This time, for cleaner, smarter trucking technology.
Next up, we meet Edison Motors, a BC company credited with building Canada's firstproduction electric hybrid truck.
(13:09):
So let's dig right in, introduce yourself, and just tell us about Edison Motors and whatyou're working on there.
Well, we're pretty cool trucks.
My name is Eric, CEO, co-founder of Edison.
Been doing this for the last four years.
Kind of started from a crazy idea in the backyard here in Merritt, BC.
Yeah, I ended up commercializing a vehicle back in 2023.
(13:30):
First electric logging truck in the world.
Super proud Canadian trying to build cool vehicles.
And here we are now, you know, raising money, you know, building a really cool productionfacility in Donald soon.
What a great time to be doing this, having a blast.
Amazing.
We did a project with FP Innovations and one of the major challenges around the loggingindustry or forestry is just the weight and size of these materials.
(13:56):
Has that been just one of the interesting components of the problem you're solving?
Well, we're pretty fortunate to have a lot of experience in this.
So Chase and I, Chase is another co-founder, of course.
He's sort of the front man of the show.
So we actually used to have a fleet of logging trucks.
Chase is a kind of veteran driver.
He's been on Discovery Channel, Mud Mountain Haulers, ah know, Highway Through Hell, youname it.
(14:21):
So he's just got a lot of experience.
We started a trucking company actually when we were university.
So we have a lot of experience doing this.
We're very comfortable within this weight class because that's actually all we know.
The origin story of the first truck Eric and his team built is pretty inspiring.
Just a couple of Canadians getting their hands dirty in the backyard.
(14:42):
turning bold ideas into reality.
Yeah, so to paint the picture here, we're in Chase's mom's backyard, right?
And we're, you know, in our early 20s.
And we had this crazy idea, obviously building the solar project.
And Chase, you know, has quite a bit of following because of being on Discovery Channel,et cetera.
(15:03):
You know, this is back in the day.
And here he is, you know, coming to me at night going, hey, I incorporated a business.
I was like, well, what's it called?
And he's like, it's called Edison Motors, you know, because we're going against Tesla.
And I'm like, crazy, man.
We got tired of waiting for the Tesla Semi to come about.
(15:23):
So we said, screw it, we'll make our own truck and I'll start my own electric truckcompany and I'll call it Edison Motors because I'm stealing Tesla's idea.
So anyway, after that, you know, head to the ground stone.
We said, how are we going to fund this thing?
Because it's, mean, building trucks is very expensive.
Building a solar project is expensive, right?
So um he basically reached out to his fan base and said, hey, I just incorporated acompany.
(15:48):
You know, can we get your support?
And it was like resounding yes.
We got a lot of people to say, hey, you should try crowdfunding.
So I reached out to a few people within the network in BC.
We did a crowdfunding round and in a few months we were able to raise $400,000.
And we used that to basically build a conversion kit for one of our trucks that we had inour fleet.
(16:13):
A beautiful 1962 Kenworth originally made in Vancouver.
This is when Canada used to actually make trucks.
uh So we converted that using an old Tesla.
And what we ended up doing there was develop like a center drive motor going to the axle.
So a very easy drop-in solution.
I hacked into the Tesla.
I was able to figure all that stuff out just because I have a bit of experience withelectric systems.
(16:37):
The batteries we took from a Tesla as well and I got to learn how to program these.
And after building that project, we brought it down to the Hope Brigade days, um which iscool because Chase is originally from Hope.
So we went down, got to see the family, and it's amazing the people that showed up fromall over the world to congratulate us.
In less than a year, we built our first prototype and it worked.
(17:00):
We were able to drive it down.
had tons of cool people show up with cameras.
And we took an opportunity during that weekend to open up a second round of crowdfundingand we were blown away.
1.5 million raised in that weekend, which is the maximum, which is a very limitingregulation.
I can get into that later.
but ultimately we were able to leverage crowdfunding to build our own truck from theground up in 2023.
(17:25):
We call her Topsy.
All right, welcome to Edison Motors.
I wanna show you our electric truck, show you how it works, show you how it runs andreally what makes an Edison truck an Edison truck.
So to introduce us, this is our first uh production prototype.
We named it Topsy after the elephant Thomas Edison electrocuted, but this is the Edisontruck.
(17:48):
She is literally 100 % built in Canada using frame rails, our own axles.
We didn't use anything from Tesla at that point.
And it was all about taking the lessons learned from our first prototype and making it waybetter.
I love it.
Those are the real, you know, startup stories that people need to understand.
You know, that's what it's like.
And that's a good place for anyone to start.
(18:09):
You can start from your home, come up with an idea and bring it to life.
Absolutely.
You definitely.
It's important as entrepreneurs to signal to people that it's hard, but it's fun and it's,anyone can do this, right?
It's, you know, we're not special individuals here.
We just have a passion.
want to run with it.
And it was so great to have a supportive family behind us as we, as we kind of built thisfrom the ground up.
(18:33):
And here we are.
Eric and the Edison team are far from just one truck ponies.
They've got big plans to serve the heavy hauling trucking industry.
by rolling out entire fleets powered by cleaner, more efficient technology.
Maybe tell us a little bit about how you're going to scale, you know, the ability to buyyour solutions in fleets, like for a complete fleet.
(18:57):
Is there a path to that?
Oh, it's, it's gonna be no short of a miracle.
But ultimately, what we're trying to do is get to production, right?
So these first 10 vehicles that we're building this year are prototypes.
kind of off the hop of what we did with our first production prototype two years ago,TOPSI, which was basically Canada's first production vehicle from the ground up since back
(19:18):
in the 90s.
So it's been a long time since Canadians built trucks for the road.
So great to have that legacy come back to our shores.
And yeah, the production plan is actually to move to Donald, BC.
We just purchased a property there, 305 acres, if you can believe it.
And there we have a lot of breathing room, a lot of space to grow.
(19:38):
So we're very excited about the opportunity to be able to build a manufacturing facilityand meet our production targets.
Okay, so we got some exciting news.
We found a place to build our shop and start building trucks.
here with the boys we're getting this property from.
We're here in Golden.
A little history, this one used to be back in the 1800s for CP, right?
(20:02):
The visual headquarters of CP Rail.
Literally this used to be the town of Donald, right here.
One of the cool things about this property is that it's 300 acres of land.
Part of the CMVSS requirements, require a test track.
So we need at least like a two kilometer test track to test our trucks.
This 300 acres of land is gonna give us room to do that, room to expand in the future.
(20:22):
We're gonna put our shop in over behind us that way.
Should be exciting.
Scaling up production of these trucks is exciting, but what about the drivers?
Getting drivers on board with new technology is another critical piece of the puzzle.
Fortunately, Edison has addressed this.
(20:43):
They've proven they're just as good at building community support as they are at buildingtrucks.
Tell us, so you've got someone on staff, your co-founder, who's a driver.
What about some of the other drivers in the network?
How do they feel about the opportunity to take on some new technology and drive newtrucks?
Well, I'd say we're quite fortunate with our social media platform to be able to reach outto millions of Canadians and Americans, basically around the world with every post.
(21:12):
We've got some great people on our team and great customers.
We worked really hard over the last year on developing partners that uh are kind ofleaders in their own industry and want to push what is possible with electrification.
Funny enough, one of our inspiring people on our team is Richard Bosch.
He's part of De Boss Garage, which is a very famous Canadian YouTube channel.
(21:33):
And to think that one of the most famous Canadian pickup truck mechanics would actuallywant to work with us based on our pathways and how excited we are.
ah It's so cool to have this community built around Edison.
Yeah.
I mean, it's validation of your work and your vision, right?
That people with a big following are now in...
involved with what you're doing, what you're building.
(21:55):
Exactly.
For Edison Motors, it's not just about turning heads on social media, although thatcertainly helps.
It's about driving real change by helping heavy industry transition to cleaner, morecost-effective technologies.
Why is decarbonizing log hauling and smaller moving equipment so critical to meetingclimate targets in the space?
(22:18):
Well, it's important just from a cost perspective.
So when we were running our trucks, was about 600 bucks a day in fuel and that was beforeCOVID.
So I'm sure it's even got higher because of the carbon taxes and extra cost of fuelsimposed.
You're talking about some serious dollars and that's obviously just being burnt up in theatmosphere.
So what's really cool about our technology is by utilizing regenerative braking whenyou're fully loaded, you're using the kinetic energy of the logs to recharge your
(22:45):
batteries.
And I think that's why logging is the
perfect application for electric mobility, just because you're going uphill very slowlyand you're obviously not to have any the way to the logs.
So it's the perfect application and we're so pleased to have built the first.
And now we're actually building the second for Tulco, which is one of the largest loggingoutfitters in BC.
(23:06):
are some of the biggest barriers to electrifying fleets like long log, wagon logger andbucket trucks?
Well, I'd say the first technological hurdle was just the amount of power that you need tomove that kind of weight.
So we really tried to develop a truck platform that was based around trains.
(23:26):
So as soon as you kind of appreciate the train locomotive power and torque that'savailable, implementing that in a truck was actually a lot easier for us to understand and
obviously get our whole engineering team to appreciate because a lot of these parts arealready readily available.
And secondly, it's the charging infrastructure.
So for us to have this mindset of building hybrid as the priority really gave us theopportunity to ensure that no customer would have to rely on infrastructure that wasn't
(23:57):
available.
And obviously, all good intentions, we are trying to develop a fully electric platform.
But ultimately, there's no charging infrastructure out there yet.
So at least we have a diesel generator for now.
And in due time, we just replace that engine with batteries, right?
So that makes sense.
You're taking almost off the shelf pieces and combining them in a unique way to come upwith like basically a decarbonized vehicle platform.
(24:23):
Yeah.
mean, ultimately, we're just a bunch of loggers.
So, you know, I have a bit of a technical background in solar installation, which is agreat thing because I understood batteries.
But ultimately, we're just regular Joes trying to build a great product because we lovethe industry and we love the folks that work it.
That's amazing.
When you think about your approach with a hybrid model, do you have a perspective on otherclean technology applications that make sense, battery electric, hydrogen, et cetera?
(24:51):
Well, I think we're doing the hybrid system because it's just far more efficient.
We understand the system quite well.
The engine that we selected is actually a European engine supplier named Scania, and theyhave a really robust technology that we can leverage.
Generators are just so much more efficient than mechanical drive systems, right?
You're not, you know, loading, you're not losing your torque as you're just shiftingthrough the gears.
(25:17):
Electric torque is just flat curved all the way up.
It's unbelievable how efficient electric systems are.
So by using a generator, um I think that that'll be a great pathway and it'll last foryears and years to come.
I would foresee that maybe in the next 20 years um as the charging infrastructure becomesmore available.
(25:37):
Some of our customers will actually opt to not get a diesel engine within our platform andinstead just have a battery under the hood where that generator would be placed.
And I think that that's kind of our pathway here because we at Edison would love to bepart of the transition within the Canadian economy to embrace more commercial vehicle
chargers.
Eric and his team have even bigger plans beyond the forestry sector.
(26:02):
They're building technology designed to scale into mining, construction,
and other industrial sectors ready for electrification.
When you think about your users, you you're serving the forestry sector right now.
I imagine the same platform will be able to be applied to mining vehicles and other largeindustrial sites.
(26:23):
Absolutely.
Well, that's my background, right?
So I wanted to make a versatile platform, a truck that really is a power plant on wheels.
And yeah, you're right.
Mining has actually been another critical focus of ours just because it's such a big partof our economy in British Columbia and I'm a proud British Columbian.
So I want to make sure that some of our largest tax generators, which is the miningindustry, can access this great technology because of the amount of truly the fuel that
(26:47):
they save is like unbelievable, especially for some of these applications like HighlandValley Copper right down the road from us.
And beyond this too, we want to really focus on construction.
Concrete mixers would be just the perfect application for this.
Any type of city utility, heck, you have a garbage truck is a good example.
And beyond this, forestry is being sort of the catalyst of all this and being a greatapplication.
(27:13):
think it lends to so many industries within that kind of commercial vehicle class, whichincludes class five, six, seven, eight.
Eight being the big heavy duty trucks with a 37 ton upwards in terms of weight ability.
For electric trucking solutions to work for mining and forestry, the charginginfrastructure needs to reach even the most remote off-grid locations.
(27:37):
That's where micro-grids come in.
And Flynn has seen some promising examples in other countries that could help shapesolutions here in Canada.
So we've talked about the solutions that are available.
But there's also a reality that often these mines are in remote areas and might not beconnected to the right infrastructure for clean energy and such.
(28:00):
Do you want to share a little bit about what that currently looks like and then we'll getinto some solutions?
yeah, the remote operations do present a new challenge, although Australia is a greatexample of how to make that work.
We're seeing incredible uptake of renewable solar, wind.
battery storage, options, configurations at massive kind of scale.
(28:24):
More than 60 to 100 megawatts is not out of the question.
So, kind of really meeting almost 70 % of the site energy load in some cases.
that really, it means that we can electrify material handling haul trucks or whatever wayyou want to move your material, even in off-grid situations, which is great.
(28:44):
And also a fairly low carbon,
much lower carbon than traditional off-grid mining operations.
Maybe it doesn't work as well in the Northern Canadian context.
We've got some good examples of some wind turbines and some solar arrays in the North.
But those have seasonal variable kind of, know, it's not like Australia where you getreally good solar radiation.
(29:07):
the moderate temperature consistently throughout the year, et cetera, et cetera.
Yeah, that was true.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So yeah, so we're definitely working on those things though, because I think it's...
You know, it's still the other alternative for lowering the carbon emissions from mobileequipment fleets or even just remote mining operations is renewable diesel or renewable
fuels.
And those are fairly limited in terms of their supply and even just transportation to thenorth.
(29:31):
you know, there's definitely a percentage of that that can go into those, but they're notreadily available today.
Back in Canada, we're seeing a few different examples of how mining operations areaddressing charging infrastructure challenges.
But
Just like powering big trucks is a huge undertaking, so is managing large amounts ofon-site power safely and efficiently.
(29:54):
So really the strategy is to build these micro communities and make sure that they kind ofhave everything available on site, like a little circular energy system, if you will.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And really thinking about all kinds of different options about load shedding, as well asdifferent technologies to generate power and store power.
(30:15):
We've got examples in Canada's north, uh Nunavut, mining companies working with localcommunities to sort of collectively determine how to make a microgrid that works both for
the community and for the mining operation.
So there's definitely examples there.
I think with the lack of grid supply and transmission capacity, we're going to see minesthat are on grid that need more power for electrification starting to generate their own
(30:39):
power.
so becoming a kind of, I guess, power producers as well as
power consumers and then sort of selling excess back to the grid and sort of like amassive scale, basically home solar sort of setup.
So that's an option too.
And we're starting to see more interest in that.
Currently, there's a lot of mining companies that actually run turbines or generators togenerate power or that additional power that they're going to need for those.
(31:03):
But when you start looking at electrification, one of the other micro big challenges isthat at the sort of operational level is the power peaking.
It's a massive problem that you really, it's hard to mitigate because you you've got allthese trucks driving around and they all need to be charged to different times and when
they all need to be charged at the same time creates a massive strain on the grid, whichis both costly and also technically kind of sometimes not possible.
(31:32):
So there will be a need for things like site energy storage to make up, you know, be ableto make up that surplus when it's needed for that short period of time.
So.
Energy storage, think, is a fairly critical component to that grid as well, that littlemicrogrid, but even like on-site generation and maybe figuring out how to do more
automation so that we can start to charge these equipment, you know, during periods wherewe're generating more renewable power and being able to and bidirectional charging is also
(32:00):
really critical.
So the trucks don't necessarily just charge, they also can discharge if the need is thereas well, right?
So they can actually load manage the site.
So
We're adding a lot of complexity to a new mine site.
If the future of mining and logging transportation is going to be fully electric, leaderslike Flynn and Eric are playing a significant role in getting us there.
(32:23):
But real change will take more than a few pioneers.
It will require collaboration across industry, government and innovators to accelerateprogress together.
One of the fundamental hypotheses of uh
the BC Netzer Innovation Network is that, you know, collaboration is a great way to poolresources to solve bigger problems together, right?
(32:46):
Because there is some trial and error.
So how can OEMs, utilities and regulators work together to overcome some of theinfrastructure and cost barriers for an accelerated transition?
Wow, that's a great question.
And one I really do think that is necessary.
I mean, you bring up regulations is a really interesting point.
Some jurisdictions don't
(33:07):
really change the regulations around underground mining ventilation, for example, whenit's an electric versus diesel.
So they're considered equivalent, which obviously everybody knows that an electric vehicleunderground is going to be a lot less, you you're going to have a lot less need for
ventilation from that.
But the regulations are slow to change.
So that's one where we could definitely work more hand in hand with the regulators todetermine can we change that to ensure that underground electric fleets.
(33:34):
do get the benefit of not needing that much ventilation and therefore turning theeconomics even more favorable towards the BEVs.
As we've seen with the BCNET Zero Innovation Network, it's really helped unpack questionsthat are to mean to everybody in the group.
And there's no real competitive advantage and answering those questions collectively is alot more economical.
And actually, you can probably get a lot better answers too when you put everybody's ofconcerns in and analyze and do studies on the basis of that.
(34:01):
I see that as really effective and has been for the last couple of years.
We've been leading the group.
It's been a lot of great input from the miners on here's what we need.
Here's why we are struggling with it.
Can you help us understand that collectively?
And the answer is working with OEMs.
I mean, the OEM side of things is pretty good.
They're very secretive on the mine electrification OEM side.
(34:24):
There's not as much openness as historically we've seen.
So I'd like to see a bit more collaboration on that basis.
Tesla ramped up infrastructure very quickly for charging their vehicles.
They ended up selling a lot more vehicles.
But then, of course, everyone's using a different hook, like the iPhone versus theSamsung.
It's like, how do you actually plug into this thing?
(34:46):
So some standardization, right?
And then you can share infrastructure.
But you need the people at the table to have those discussions.
And I agree a bit.
Our philosophy around Canada's competitiveness in these sectors is,
Let's work together and then export all these solutions globally as opposed to like, youknow, competing amongst ourselves.
(35:07):
I do see, you know, the Australian mining cluster working really well together towardselectrification.
think, you know, it's both OEMs, it's technology experts, it's mining companies sort ofpooling resources to say, let's like figure this out.
What role does government or public funding play in helping, you know, mining companiesthrough this transitionary period?
(35:30):
There's a saying in the industry, which is, you we're going to be fast followers.
In order for that to happen, there needs to be a fairly good impetus for that first moverto move.
And they're not going to volunteer that if it doesn't have a very significant cost benefitto them.
There's a need for that stimulus to start that process and get that ball rolling.
Even a need to stimulate the conversation to get the group to start working together onit.
(35:53):
I'd say that the reason Canada has been
As progressive as it has been with a lot of technology development and trials anddifferent mining operations across Canada is because there's healthy incentives there to
de-risk those projects.
The first trial I was involved with in electric vehicles underground and mining operationwas in 2011.
And that was uh sponsored and funded by various government agencies.
(36:17):
Was that here or Sudbury?
In Ontario, actually in Red Lake, Ontario.
The operators loved it.
thought, wow, this is great.
I don't have to sit in a diesel exhaust envelope on my way up the ramp.
And it's quiet and it's not as hot.
So there was a lot of benefits to it.
And it was a very significant no-brainer when we started doing that.
Yeah.
(36:37):
think, you know, I really like that you've leaned in on that first mover piece, right?
You know, lead or follow.
So let's lean in and also make sure that there's that.
supporting infrastructure and narrative for the Canadian companies supplying solutions forthis pathway, that they can tell those stories and help them drive their own growth and
(36:59):
export development as well when it comes to innovation and new products and services.
There's still work to do when it comes to scaling the technology, but Eric and the team atEdison Motors are charging forward.
And thanks to Canada's support of clean tech ecosystem, they've had the backing to turnbold ideas into real progress on the road.
(37:23):
your experience with your program and work so far, how can OEMs, utilities and regulatorswork together to better support innovators like you?
The industry has a long way to go and I hope that we can kind of be a good kick in thebutt.
because ultimately the platform we're building was built by a bunch of kids in a backyardin BC.
(37:44):
So I hope that we can really be a way to turbocharge the industry.
And it turns to regulation, I think that the platform we're developing is very drop-in interms of being able to still pay for road taxes via the purchase of fuels.
I think that we're going to be really well embraced by industry partners in that regard,and especially government.
(38:05):
And I got to say, it's great to be a Canadian because
The pathways to actually getting our vehicle on-road certified and legal has been actuallyreally great.
We've had phenomenal support there.
So great partners all around from Ottawa and BC helping us to commercialize this productfor the masses.
I do think, you know, traditional sectors, people who are a little too comfortable doingthings the way they've been doing them for 100 years, need folks like you to give them a
(38:33):
bit of a poke, little elbow in the ribs, a little, you know.
if you will, to get them to move forward and think about the role innovation and newtechnology can play to serve the sector.
Well, that's ultimately what innovators do.
They disrupt.
you know, that's what Edison's doing from day one is we're building a compelling product.
It's our dream truck, which is fantastic because we get so much experience alreadyoperating a fleet of trucks.
(38:57):
We know how to fix them.
We know what parts we want to use because we trust them.
And what's great is our approach has been quite interesting.
Instead of having an army of engineers and a boatload of money to spend on custom parts,uh our pathway has been a kind of force to use off the shelf parts to really reduce the
cost.
(39:17):
But therefore our customers get to enjoy these parts too and have easy access to them.
We're in Merritt, BC, we're not close to any major part distribution hub.
So for us to pull this off means that we're only going to have a more supportive end user.
Yeah, we're just so excited by what we've been able to accomplish so far.
Yeah, a more robust supply chain, which is more important than ever given these economictimes.
(39:42):
Absolutely.
Thank you to Flynn McCarthy, our Mining Industry Advisor with the BC Net Zero InnovationNetwork, and Eric Little from Edison Motors for joining us today, sharing their visions
and most importantly, for their commitment to cleaning up Canada's heavy hauling sectors.
As an entrepreneur, I am so inspired by Eric's story.
I mean...
(40:02):
It's obvious what it takes is innovators to be bold and ambitious, to push traditionalsectors and people that are a little too comfortable making our vehicles the way they are
to do things differently.
These innovators are challenging the status quo and they're the ones that are going to getus from point A to Z, which is net zero.
If I were to leave our listeners with a final aha moment for this episode, especially ifyou're someone with influence, funding or passion to advance clean transportation, it's
(40:31):
this.
When major companies become more open to solutions for decarbonization, we must takeadvantage of the opportunity and act.
By connecting innovators and bold thinkers with industry experts and decision makers, bothat home and around the world, we accelerate meaningful progress towards a net zero
economy.
(40:52):
When people roll up their sleeves, lead by example, and dig into real solutions, theycreate the momentum that inspires change, and we all win.
On the next episode of Clean Tech Forward, why aren't proven alternative fuels likehydrogen being adopted on a broader scale?
(41:13):
We'll unpack the myths, explore the barriers, and look at what's really holding backbroader adoption of clean fuel solutions that could reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.
Add us to your playlist so you don't miss it.
Clean Tech Forward is fueled by Foresight Canada's BC Net Zero Innovation Network.
Powered by Pacific Economic Development Canada.
(41:35):
and the Government of British Columbia.
Learn more about how BC is driving the future of clean transportation at foresight cac.comslash British Columbia.
(42:00):
you
Clean Tech Forward is an everything podcasts production hosted by Jeanette Jackson andnarrated by me, Tamara Stanners.
Show runner and writer, Jessica Grechik.
Sound engineer, Jordan Wong.
Executive producer, Jennifer Smith.
(42:25):
Another Everything Podcast production.
Visit everythingpodcast.com, a division of Patterson Media.
Subscribe wherever you get your podcast.
So just one fun fact for you, energy density of diesel is significantly higher than theenergy density of batteries.
So if we're trying to electrify the fleets, the battery energy density challenge isreally, really significant on a mine site because utilization of equipment is so critical
to the success of a mining operation.
They need that equipment to move tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of tonsof material per day.
(00:36):
The BC's mining and forestry sector supply the materials needed for everything frombatteries to construction and export them around the world.
But when it comes to powering the fleets that carry these resources from pit to port orforest to mill, diesel still dominates and electrifying them is anything but simple.
The good news?
Innovators in BC are rolling up their sleeves to tackle this challenge and drive realchange.
(01:03):
I'm Jeanette Jackson, CEO of Foresight Canada.
and your host of Clean Tech Forward.
Our guests today are doing the heavy lifting when it comes to decarbonizing BC's resourcehauling fleets.
Join us as we explore some of the real world barriers and bold solutions reshapingtransportation in BC's mining and forestry sectors.
(01:23):
That's all coming up in just a moment.
Welcome to Clean Tech Forward.
This season, we're exploring the challenges, opportunities and real-world solutionsshaping the future of British Columbia's clean transportation.
Join us as we talk to leaders and innovators working to accelerate BC's path to a net-zeroeconomy.
(01:47):
One that benefits people, planet and profits.
From electric buses and tugboats to alternative fuels and shared infrastructure, buckleup.
for an electrifying ride into the future.
Powered by Foresight Canada's BC Net Zero Innovation Network.
At Foresight Canada, we help the world do more with less sustainably.
(02:09):
The BC Net Zero Innovation Network is a first of its kind ecosystem platform thataccelerates the adoption of clean technologies throughout BC's top industries.
Clean air, clean water, clean transportation.
And Net Zero economy starts here.
British Columbia's mining sector supplies the minerals that power the clean economy, likethe copper, nickel and silver used in EVs, batteries and solar panels, to the steel-making
(02:41):
coal used in wind turbines.
But extracting and transporting these resources takes a large amount of energy, and theshift from diesel-powered fleets and infrastructure to low-carbon solutions can be costly
and complex.
That's where smart people like Flynn McCarthy come in.
Flynn has dedicated his life's work to decarbonizing heavy industries.
(03:03):
And as an advisor to the BC Net Zero Innovation Network, he's helping mining companiestackle the tough realities of electrification, one heavy duty challenge at a time.
Really excited about our conversation today.
We're talking everything heavy metal, heavy emissions and the opportunities to decarbonizetransportation in BC's mining sector.
(03:27):
I'm here with an incredible guest and expert, Flynn McCarthy.
Thanks for having me, Janette.
Yeah, much appreciated.
I've been in decarbonization for heavy industry for about 20 years.
I started in upstream oil and gas and moved into mining in about 2010, where I was thelead carbon and energy manager for one of the world's largest gold mining companies.
And in that, I saw the great opportunity to decarbonize mining.
(03:50):
In terms of diesel burn, it's pretty significant, as we all know.
lots of heavy haul trucks that need to move millions of tons of ore and waste to be ableto make gold or other types of precious metals and non-precious metals to bring to market.
And since then, I've developed a consultancy around that.
So I lead the consultancy, Sysenia Consulting, where we focus on helping mining companiesto basically set those greenhouse gas reduction targets and then find meaningful pathways
(04:18):
to get there.
I love that.
So, you when you first started to see the opportunities around sustainability and mining,was there a personal motivation or something that really triggered that sort of transition
for you?
mean, I've always been focused on greenhouse gas reduction, just considering the climate.
That's why I started in oil and gas.
had the largest emissions.
(04:38):
But yeah, seeing the sort of interest from the mining companies and really the miningcompanies have taken a much more aggressive approach to greenhouse gas reduction.
They really are digging in.
putting their money where their mouth is too.
We're seeing quite a big sort of commitments from the industry as well as they're takingon some really big tough challenges to transition their industry which is actually much
(05:00):
harder than other industries to transition.
absolutely.
Well, we've been doing quite a bit of work on the BC Net Zero Innovation Network miningcluster which is all about decarbonizing the mining sector.
Let's sort of dig in to help the audience a little bit understand more about what thechallenges are.
Starting with why decarbonizing mobile equipment in BC's mining sector is such a criticalcomponent of meeting climate goals.
(05:25):
The group that we have includes all the mining companies in BC, and we've been able tosort of bring that to the table to say, okay, well, what can we really do for the mobile
fleet?
There's some pretty big energy use in that fleet.
It's massive.
It's almost more than all of the cars in BC.
in terms of amount of horsepower that's used in those fleets.
(05:46):
And they work 24-7 and 365.
That's the way we've been mining for a very long time now.
So trying to think about a different way to run that mobile fleet and all of thosedifferent pieces of equipment has been a bit of a daunting challenge just because it's
very ingrained.
There's just not really, it hasn't been challenged.
The diesel supremacy has been there for a while now.
(06:09):
And it's easy for people to keep doing the same thing.
Right?
Change is hard.
Change management is a big piece of it.
think spend more time on the change management piece than actually the introduction of newtechnologies because there's so many great solutions available.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
The risks are high and the risks in your body are high.
So traditionally miners have been very conservative in that regard.
(06:32):
They don't want to change too much of the way they mine because there's so many risks notknowing if there's actual metal in the ground.
They reduce the risk when it comes to operations.
Change is never easy.
But operators in BC's mining industry are embracing some cleaner alternatives such aselectric vehicles and lower carbon fuels.
(06:54):
Still, electrifying whole mobile fleets presents real physical challenges.
From remote site locations with extreme weather to limited on-site power and charginginfrastructure.
These are exactly the kinds of challenges
the BC Net Zero Innovation Network is tackling head on by bringing industry and innovatorstogether to overcome barriers and accelerate real world solutions.
(07:21):
BC has a lot of supply, but we don't have transmission lines to every mining operation.
They're in fairly remote locations.
So that's the macro level.
And then on the micro level, it's really how do those pieces of equipment integrate intothe site operations?
So just one fun fact for you.
energy density of diesel is significantly higher than the energy density of batteries.
(07:42):
So, if we're trying to electrify the fleets, the battery energy density challenge isreally, really significant on a mine site because utilization of equipment is so critical
to the success of a mining operation.
They need that equipment to move tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of tonsof material per day.
So, in order to achieve that, that energy density has to be there.
(08:04):
So, they have to...
essentially figure out ways to charge, you know, in every potential possible way, evendynamically when they're actually on the move.
Setting up a mine site has to be different too.
It isn't the same as a traditional diesel mine site because we don't fuel every shift, wefuel maybe every 15 minutes with those oil trucks or maybe even every load in and out of
(08:25):
the pit.
So that's the sort of micro level challenges is sort of what are those charginginfrastructure look like?
how do those pieces of equipment interact with the charging infrastructure?
When do the drivers take their breaks and things like that to ensure that we're optimizingcharge times and things like that.
So yeah, there's quite a few.
it's really an operational overhaul, reimagining the flow of all the people and supportsand processes, leveraging these new technologies and solutions.
(08:56):
Yeah.
And also
We're dealing with also remote mining operations in the north.
So there's 60 feet of snow sometimes that we've got to deal with.
So trying to figure out how to get that charging system so that it doesn't matter ifthere's 60 feet of snow.
You don't have to have somebody hand digging the charging station out every two hours tomake sure that it's available.
(09:17):
In some ways, it's looking at a whole different mix of technologies that you don'ttraditionally think of to move your materials.
And that can be also, you get all these different handling.
stations and you're adding complexity every time you add a new system.
It's no longer just one truck from the pit to the mill.
You're adding a whole bunch of new pieces to it.
So far what we've done is we've actually started with some of the ancillary stuff.
(09:40):
So things like the boom trucks and the trucks that takes the, know, basically the kind ofthey don't need to be working 24 seven 365.
We started there, the scoops and the shovels and the drills.
Those can all be electrified.
I wouldn't say easily.
There's still challenges with snow and trailing cables and things like that, but for themost part, those are where we're starting.
(10:01):
It's trying to get a handle on that, trying to understand.
Even just personnel carriers, to, the little pickup trucks that run around the site,trying to make sure that the operators and the foremen are charging them up so that the
next shift doesn't have a low battery.
There's actually logistical challenges there too.
Like every transportation sector making an effort to decarbonize, heavy hauling has itsunique challenges.
(10:23):
but it also has some promising solutions taking shape right here in BC.
Flynn gets to see firsthand what the mining industry is adopting, what's working, andwhat's helping the sector move forward.
Right now, battery electric vehicles, or BEVs, are leading the charge.
So most of the focus on currently is on the BEV side.
(10:45):
So there's some big name companies that have attempted hydrogen.
I believe it was
Well Fortescue had a focus on hydrogen just two years ago and then we were all surprisedto see they switched to BEVs last year during the mine expo.
So I think that there's been a fairly significant shift.
We've had some really good pilots of hydrogen, different operations and really, you know,trying to process it.
(11:10):
It just seemed like hydrogen has always been all of it behind the BEV sort of production.
And so we're seeing now a fairly significant BEV implementation.
We've got orders for
graders and loaders and scoops and a lot of different technologies that are just becomingreadily commercially available.
So that tech is sort of out there.
(11:31):
And I think what happens is that the site gets familiar with their, you know, theirbattery electric pickup trucks, and then they get more familiar with their battery
electric scoops.
And then they're more familiar with, know, it just sort of trickles on so that becoming anelectric fleet is lot easier to sort of manage.
I think that that's where the BEV fleet has really taken over.
um
(11:51):
just because it's fairly familiar on that basis.
And most of the sites that are large have grid connections or they'll have a largegeneration capacity.
they're fairly familiar with power and power handling, even in the pit operations andthings like that.
And I guess miners historically have used electricity.
you know, the first, the conveyors and the cable cars and the hoists that historically,or, you know, back in the 20s and 30s, was, mining was electric actually, so.
(12:19):
It even had electric locomotives for underground mining operations way back in the earlydays.
So maybe it's a renaissance of electric, if you will.
Electric technology is proving to be an encouraging fit for decarbonizing the miningindustry.
The good news is even more heavy duty electric equipment is becoming commerciallyavailable.
(12:42):
Fun fact, British Columbia has a rich history of heavy duty truck manufacturing.
that goes back to the 1940s.
While that legacy slowed in recent decades, we're starting to make a name for ourselvesagain.
This time, for cleaner, smarter trucking technology.
Next up, we meet Edison Motors, a BC company credited with building Canada's firstproduction electric hybrid truck.
(13:09):
So let's dig right in, introduce yourself, and just tell us about Edison Motors and whatyou're working on there.
Well, we're pretty cool trucks.
My name is Eric, CEO, co-founder of Edison.
Been doing this for the last four years.
Kind of started from a crazy idea in the backyard here in Merritt, BC.
Yeah, I ended up commercializing a vehicle back in 2023.
(13:30):
First electric logging truck in the world.
Super proud Canadian trying to build cool vehicles.
And here we are now, you know, raising money, you know, building a really cool productionfacility in Donald soon.
What a great time to be doing this, having a blast.
Amazing.
We did a project with FP Innovations and one of the major challenges around the loggingindustry or forestry is just the weight and size of these materials.
(13:56):
Has that been just one of the interesting components of the problem you're solving?
Well, we're pretty fortunate to have a lot of experience in this.
So Chase and I, Chase is another co-founder, of course.
He's sort of the front man of the show.
So we actually used to have a fleet of logging trucks.
Chase is a kind of veteran driver.
He's been on Discovery Channel, Mud Mountain Haulers, ah know, Highway Through Hell, youname it.
(14:21):
So he's just got a lot of experience.
We started a trucking company actually when we were university.
So we have a lot of experience doing this.
We're very comfortable within this weight class because that's actually all we know.
The origin story of the first truck Eric and his team built is pretty inspiring.
Just a couple of Canadians getting their hands dirty in the backyard.
(14:42):
turning bold ideas into reality.
Yeah, so to paint the picture here, we're in Chase's mom's backyard, right?
And we're, you know, in our early 20s.
And we had this crazy idea, obviously building the solar project.
And Chase, you know, has quite a bit of following because of being on Discovery Channel,et cetera.
(15:03):
You know, this is back in the day.
And here he is, you know, coming to me at night going, hey, I incorporated a business.
I was like, well, what's it called?
And he's like, it's called Edison Motors, you know, because we're going against Tesla.
And I'm like, crazy, man.
We got tired of waiting for the Tesla Semi to come about.
(15:23):
So we said, screw it, we'll make our own truck and I'll start my own electric truckcompany and I'll call it Edison Motors because I'm stealing Tesla's idea.
So anyway, after that, you know, head to the ground stone.
We said, how are we going to fund this thing?
Because it's, mean, building trucks is very expensive.
Building a solar project is expensive, right?
So um he basically reached out to his fan base and said, hey, I just incorporated acompany.
(15:48):
You know, can we get your support?
And it was like resounding yes.
We got a lot of people to say, hey, you should try crowdfunding.
So I reached out to a few people within the network in BC.
We did a crowdfunding round and in a few months we were able to raise $400,000.
And we used that to basically build a conversion kit for one of our trucks that we had inour fleet.
(16:13):
A beautiful 1962 Kenworth originally made in Vancouver.
This is when Canada used to actually make trucks.
uh So we converted that using an old Tesla.
And what we ended up doing there was develop like a center drive motor going to the axle.
So a very easy drop-in solution.
I hacked into the Tesla.
I was able to figure all that stuff out just because I have a bit of experience withelectric systems.
(16:37):
The batteries we took from a Tesla as well and I got to learn how to program these.
And after building that project, we brought it down to the Hope Brigade days, um which iscool because Chase is originally from Hope.
So we went down, got to see the family, and it's amazing the people that showed up fromall over the world to congratulate us.
In less than a year, we built our first prototype and it worked.
(17:00):
We were able to drive it down.
had tons of cool people show up with cameras.
And we took an opportunity during that weekend to open up a second round of crowdfundingand we were blown away.
1.5 million raised in that weekend, which is the maximum, which is a very limitingregulation.
I can get into that later.
but ultimately we were able to leverage crowdfunding to build our own truck from theground up in 2023.
(17:25):
We call her Topsy.
All right, welcome to Edison Motors.
I wanna show you our electric truck, show you how it works, show you how it runs andreally what makes an Edison truck an Edison truck.
So to introduce us, this is our first uh production prototype.
We named it Topsy after the elephant Thomas Edison electrocuted, but this is the Edisontruck.
(17:48):
She is literally 100 % built in Canada using frame rails, our own axles.
We didn't use anything from Tesla at that point.
And it was all about taking the lessons learned from our first prototype and making it waybetter.
I love it.
Those are the real, you know, startup stories that people need to understand.
You know, that's what it's like.
And that's a good place for anyone to start.
(18:09):
You can start from your home, come up with an idea and bring it to life.
Absolutely.
You definitely.
It's important as entrepreneurs to signal to people that it's hard, but it's fun and it's,anyone can do this, right?
It's, you know, we're not special individuals here.
We just have a passion.
want to run with it.
And it was so great to have a supportive family behind us as we, as we kind of built thisfrom the ground up.
(18:33):
And here we are.
Eric and the Edison team are far from just one truck ponies.
They've got big plans to serve the heavy hauling trucking industry.
by rolling out entire fleets powered by cleaner, more efficient technology.
Maybe tell us a little bit about how you're going to scale, you know, the ability to buyyour solutions in fleets, like for a complete fleet.
(18:57):
Is there a path to that?
Oh, it's, it's gonna be no short of a miracle.
But ultimately, what we're trying to do is get to production, right?
So these first 10 vehicles that we're building this year are prototypes.
kind of off the hop of what we did with our first production prototype two years ago,TOPSI, which was basically Canada's first production vehicle from the ground up since back
(19:18):
in the 90s.
So it's been a long time since Canadians built trucks for the road.
So great to have that legacy come back to our shores.
And yeah, the production plan is actually to move to Donald, BC.
We just purchased a property there, 305 acres, if you can believe it.
And there we have a lot of breathing room, a lot of space to grow.
(19:38):
So we're very excited about the opportunity to be able to build a manufacturing facilityand meet our production targets.
Okay, so we got some exciting news.
We found a place to build our shop and start building trucks.
here with the boys we're getting this property from.
We're here in Golden.
A little history, this one used to be back in the 1800s for CP, right?
(20:02):
The visual headquarters of CP Rail.
Literally this used to be the town of Donald, right here.
One of the cool things about this property is that it's 300 acres of land.
Part of the CMVSS requirements, require a test track.
So we need at least like a two kilometer test track to test our trucks.
This 300 acres of land is gonna give us room to do that, room to expand in the future.
(20:22):
We're gonna put our shop in over behind us that way.
Should be exciting.
Scaling up production of these trucks is exciting, but what about the drivers?
Getting drivers on board with new technology is another critical piece of the puzzle.
Fortunately, Edison has addressed this.
(20:43):
They've proven they're just as good at building community support as they are at buildingtrucks.
Tell us, so you've got someone on staff, your co-founder, who's a driver.
What about some of the other drivers in the network?
How do they feel about the opportunity to take on some new technology and drive newtrucks?
Well, I'd say we're quite fortunate with our social media platform to be able to reach outto millions of Canadians and Americans, basically around the world with every post.
(21:12):
We've got some great people on our team and great customers.
We worked really hard over the last year on developing partners that uh are kind ofleaders in their own industry and want to push what is possible with electrification.
Funny enough, one of our inspiring people on our team is Richard Bosch.
He's part of De Boss Garage, which is a very famous Canadian YouTube channel.
(21:33):
And to think that one of the most famous Canadian pickup truck mechanics would actuallywant to work with us based on our pathways and how excited we are.
ah It's so cool to have this community built around Edison.
Yeah.
I mean, it's validation of your work and your vision, right?
That people with a big following are now in...
involved with what you're doing, what you're building.
(21:55):
Exactly.
For Edison Motors, it's not just about turning heads on social media, although thatcertainly helps.
It's about driving real change by helping heavy industry transition to cleaner, morecost-effective technologies.
Why is decarbonizing log hauling and smaller moving equipment so critical to meetingclimate targets in the space?
(22:18):
Well, it's important just from a cost perspective.
So when we were running our trucks, was about 600 bucks a day in fuel and that was beforeCOVID.
So I'm sure it's even got higher because of the carbon taxes and extra cost of fuelsimposed.
You're talking about some serious dollars and that's obviously just being burnt up in theatmosphere.
So what's really cool about our technology is by utilizing regenerative braking whenyou're fully loaded, you're using the kinetic energy of the logs to recharge your
(22:45):
batteries.
And I think that's why logging is the
perfect application for electric mobility, just because you're going uphill very slowlyand you're obviously not to have any the way to the logs.
So it's the perfect application and we're so pleased to have built the first.
And now we're actually building the second for Tulco, which is one of the largest loggingoutfitters in BC.
(23:06):
are some of the biggest barriers to electrifying fleets like long log, wagon logger andbucket trucks?
Well, I'd say the first technological hurdle was just the amount of power that you need tomove that kind of weight.
So we really tried to develop a truck platform that was based around trains.
(23:26):
So as soon as you kind of appreciate the train locomotive power and torque that'savailable, implementing that in a truck was actually a lot easier for us to understand and
obviously get our whole engineering team to appreciate because a lot of these parts arealready readily available.
And secondly, it's the charging infrastructure.
So for us to have this mindset of building hybrid as the priority really gave us theopportunity to ensure that no customer would have to rely on infrastructure that wasn't
(23:57):
available.
And obviously, all good intentions, we are trying to develop a fully electric platform.
But ultimately, there's no charging infrastructure out there yet.
So at least we have a diesel generator for now.
And in due time, we just replace that engine with batteries, right?
So that makes sense.
You're taking almost off the shelf pieces and combining them in a unique way to come upwith like basically a decarbonized vehicle platform.
(24:23):
Yeah.
mean, ultimately, we're just a bunch of loggers.
So, you know, I have a bit of a technical background in solar installation, which is agreat thing because I understood batteries.
But ultimately, we're just regular Joes trying to build a great product because we lovethe industry and we love the folks that work it.
That's amazing.
When you think about your approach with a hybrid model, do you have a perspective on otherclean technology applications that make sense, battery electric, hydrogen, et cetera?
(24:51):
Well, I think we're doing the hybrid system because it's just far more efficient.
We understand the system quite well.
The engine that we selected is actually a European engine supplier named Scania, and theyhave a really robust technology that we can leverage.
Generators are just so much more efficient than mechanical drive systems, right?
You're not, you know, loading, you're not losing your torque as you're just shiftingthrough the gears.
(25:17):
Electric torque is just flat curved all the way up.
It's unbelievable how efficient electric systems are.
So by using a generator, um I think that that'll be a great pathway and it'll last foryears and years to come.
I would foresee that maybe in the next 20 years um as the charging infrastructure becomesmore available.
(25:37):
Some of our customers will actually opt to not get a diesel engine within our platform andinstead just have a battery under the hood where that generator would be placed.
And I think that that's kind of our pathway here because we at Edison would love to bepart of the transition within the Canadian economy to embrace more commercial vehicle
chargers.
Eric and his team have even bigger plans beyond the forestry sector.
(26:02):
They're building technology designed to scale into mining, construction,
and other industrial sectors ready for electrification.
When you think about your users, you you're serving the forestry sector right now.
I imagine the same platform will be able to be applied to mining vehicles and other largeindustrial sites.
(26:23):
Absolutely.
Well, that's my background, right?
So I wanted to make a versatile platform, a truck that really is a power plant on wheels.
And yeah, you're right.
Mining has actually been another critical focus of ours just because it's such a big partof our economy in British Columbia and I'm a proud British Columbian.
So I want to make sure that some of our largest tax generators, which is the miningindustry, can access this great technology because of the amount of truly the fuel that
(26:47):
they save is like unbelievable, especially for some of these applications like HighlandValley Copper right down the road from us.
And beyond this too, we want to really focus on construction.
Concrete mixers would be just the perfect application for this.
Any type of city utility, heck, you have a garbage truck is a good example.
And beyond this, forestry is being sort of the catalyst of all this and being a greatapplication.
(27:13):
think it lends to so many industries within that kind of commercial vehicle class, whichincludes class five, six, seven, eight.
Eight being the big heavy duty trucks with a 37 ton upwards in terms of weight ability.
For electric trucking solutions to work for mining and forestry, the charginginfrastructure needs to reach even the most remote off-grid locations.
(27:37):
That's where micro-grids come in.
And Flynn has seen some promising examples in other countries that could help shapesolutions here in Canada.
So we've talked about the solutions that are available.
But there's also a reality that often these mines are in remote areas and might not beconnected to the right infrastructure for clean energy and such.
(28:00):
Do you want to share a little bit about what that currently looks like and then we'll getinto some solutions?
yeah, the remote operations do present a new challenge, although Australia is a greatexample of how to make that work.
We're seeing incredible uptake of renewable solar, wind.
battery storage, options, configurations at massive kind of scale.
(28:24):
More than 60 to 100 megawatts is not out of the question.
So, kind of really meeting almost 70 % of the site energy load in some cases.
that really, it means that we can electrify material handling haul trucks or whatever wayyou want to move your material, even in off-grid situations, which is great.
(28:44):
And also a fairly low carbon,
much lower carbon than traditional off-grid mining operations.
Maybe it doesn't work as well in the Northern Canadian context.
We've got some good examples of some wind turbines and some solar arrays in the North.
But those have seasonal variable kind of, know, it's not like Australia where you getreally good solar radiation.
(29:07):
the moderate temperature consistently throughout the year, et cetera, et cetera.
Yeah, that was true.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So yeah, so we're definitely working on those things though, because I think it's...
You know, it's still the other alternative for lowering the carbon emissions from mobileequipment fleets or even just remote mining operations is renewable diesel or renewable
fuels.
And those are fairly limited in terms of their supply and even just transportation to thenorth.
(29:31):
you know, there's definitely a percentage of that that can go into those, but they're notreadily available today.
Back in Canada, we're seeing a few different examples of how mining operations areaddressing charging infrastructure challenges.
But
Just like powering big trucks is a huge undertaking, so is managing large amounts ofon-site power safely and efficiently.
(29:54):
So really the strategy is to build these micro communities and make sure that they kind ofhave everything available on site, like a little circular energy system, if you will.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And really thinking about all kinds of different options about load shedding, as well asdifferent technologies to generate power and store power.
(30:15):
We've got examples in Canada's north, uh Nunavut, mining companies working with localcommunities to sort of collectively determine how to make a microgrid that works both for
the community and for the mining operation.
So there's definitely examples there.
I think with the lack of grid supply and transmission capacity, we're going to see minesthat are on grid that need more power for electrification starting to generate their own
(30:39):
power.
so becoming a kind of, I guess, power producers as well as
power consumers and then sort of selling excess back to the grid and sort of like amassive scale, basically home solar sort of setup.
So that's an option too.
And we're starting to see more interest in that.
Currently, there's a lot of mining companies that actually run turbines or generators togenerate power or that additional power that they're going to need for those.
(31:03):
But when you start looking at electrification, one of the other micro big challenges isthat at the sort of operational level is the power peaking.
It's a massive problem that you really, it's hard to mitigate because you you've got allthese trucks driving around and they all need to be charged to different times and when
they all need to be charged at the same time creates a massive strain on the grid, whichis both costly and also technically kind of sometimes not possible.
(31:32):
So there will be a need for things like site energy storage to make up, you know, be ableto make up that surplus when it's needed for that short period of time.
So.
Energy storage, think, is a fairly critical component to that grid as well, that littlemicrogrid, but even like on-site generation and maybe figuring out how to do more
automation so that we can start to charge these equipment, you know, during periods wherewe're generating more renewable power and being able to and bidirectional charging is also
(32:00):
really critical.
So the trucks don't necessarily just charge, they also can discharge if the need is thereas well, right?
So they can actually load manage the site.
So
We're adding a lot of complexity to a new mine site.
If the future of mining and logging transportation is going to be fully electric, leaderslike Flynn and Eric are playing a significant role in getting us there.
(32:23):
But real change will take more than a few pioneers.
It will require collaboration across industry, government and innovators to accelerateprogress together.
One of the fundamental hypotheses of uh
the BC Netzer Innovation Network is that, you know, collaboration is a great way to poolresources to solve bigger problems together, right?
(32:46):
Because there is some trial and error.
So how can OEMs, utilities and regulators work together to overcome some of theinfrastructure and cost barriers for an accelerated transition?
Wow, that's a great question.
And one I really do think that is necessary.
I mean, you bring up regulations is a really interesting point.
Some jurisdictions don't
(33:07):
really change the regulations around underground mining ventilation, for example, whenit's an electric versus diesel.
So they're considered equivalent, which obviously everybody knows that an electric vehicleunderground is going to be a lot less, you you're going to have a lot less need for
ventilation from that.
But the regulations are slow to change.
So that's one where we could definitely work more hand in hand with the regulators todetermine can we change that to ensure that underground electric fleets.
(33:34):
do get the benefit of not needing that much ventilation and therefore turning theeconomics even more favorable towards the BEVs.
As we've seen with the BCNET Zero Innovation Network, it's really helped unpack questionsthat are to mean to everybody in the group.
And there's no real competitive advantage and answering those questions collectively is alot more economical.
And actually, you can probably get a lot better answers too when you put everybody's ofconcerns in and analyze and do studies on the basis of that.
(34:01):
I see that as really effective and has been for the last couple of years.
We've been leading the group.
It's been a lot of great input from the miners on here's what we need.
Here's why we are struggling with it.
Can you help us understand that collectively?
And the answer is working with OEMs.
I mean, the OEM side of things is pretty good.
They're very secretive on the mine electrification OEM side.
(34:24):
There's not as much openness as historically we've seen.
So I'd like to see a bit more collaboration on that basis.
Tesla ramped up infrastructure very quickly for charging their vehicles.
They ended up selling a lot more vehicles.
But then, of course, everyone's using a different hook, like the iPhone versus theSamsung.
It's like, how do you actually plug into this thing?
(34:46):
So some standardization, right?
And then you can share infrastructure.
But you need the people at the table to have those discussions.
And I agree a bit.
Our philosophy around Canada's competitiveness in these sectors is,
Let's work together and then export all these solutions globally as opposed to like, youknow, competing amongst ourselves.
(35:07):
I do see, you know, the Australian mining cluster working really well together towardselectrification.
think, you know, it's both OEMs, it's technology experts, it's mining companies sort ofpooling resources to say, let's like figure this out.
What role does government or public funding play in helping, you know, mining companiesthrough this transitionary period?
(35:30):
There's a saying in the industry, which is, you we're going to be fast followers.
In order for that to happen, there needs to be a fairly good impetus for that first moverto move.
And they're not going to volunteer that if it doesn't have a very significant cost benefitto them.
There's a need for that stimulus to start that process and get that ball rolling.
Even a need to stimulate the conversation to get the group to start working together onit.
(35:53):
I'd say that the reason Canada has been
As progressive as it has been with a lot of technology development and trials anddifferent mining operations across Canada is because there's healthy incentives there to
de-risk those projects.
The first trial I was involved with in electric vehicles underground and mining operationwas in 2011.
And that was uh sponsored and funded by various government agencies.
(36:17):
Was that here or Sudbury?
In Ontario, actually in Red Lake, Ontario.
The operators loved it.
thought, wow, this is great.
I don't have to sit in a diesel exhaust envelope on my way up the ramp.
And it's quiet and it's not as hot.
So there was a lot of benefits to it.
And it was a very significant no-brainer when we started doing that.
Yeah.
(36:37):
think, you know, I really like that you've leaned in on that first mover piece, right?
You know, lead or follow.
So let's lean in and also make sure that there's that.
supporting infrastructure and narrative for the Canadian companies supplying solutions forthis pathway, that they can tell those stories and help them drive their own growth and
(36:59):
export development as well when it comes to innovation and new products and services.
There's still work to do when it comes to scaling the technology, but Eric and the team atEdison Motors are charging forward.
And thanks to Canada's support of clean tech ecosystem, they've had the backing to turnbold ideas into real progress on the road.
(37:23):
your experience with your program and work so far, how can OEMs, utilities and regulatorswork together to better support innovators like you?
The industry has a long way to go and I hope that we can kind of be a good kick in thebutt.
because ultimately the platform we're building was built by a bunch of kids in a backyardin BC.
(37:44):
So I hope that we can really be a way to turbocharge the industry.
And it turns to regulation, I think that the platform we're developing is very drop-in interms of being able to still pay for road taxes via the purchase of fuels.
I think that we're going to be really well embraced by industry partners in that regard,and especially government.
(38:05):
And I got to say, it's great to be a Canadian because
The pathways to actually getting our vehicle on-road certified and legal has been actuallyreally great.
We've had phenomenal support there.
So great partners all around from Ottawa and BC helping us to commercialize this productfor the masses.
I do think, you know, traditional sectors, people who are a little too comfortable doingthings the way they've been doing them for 100 years, need folks like you to give them a
(38:33):
bit of a poke, little elbow in the ribs, a little, you know.
if you will, to get them to move forward and think about the role innovation and newtechnology can play to serve the sector.
Well, that's ultimately what innovators do.
They disrupt.
you know, that's what Edison's doing from day one is we're building a compelling product.
It's our dream truck, which is fantastic because we get so much experience alreadyoperating a fleet of trucks.
(38:57):
We know how to fix them.
We know what parts we want to use because we trust them.
And what's great is our approach has been quite interesting.
Instead of having an army of engineers and a boatload of money to spend on custom parts,uh our pathway has been a kind of force to use off the shelf parts to really reduce the
cost.
(39:17):
But therefore our customers get to enjoy these parts too and have easy access to them.
We're in Merritt, BC, we're not close to any major part distribution hub.
So for us to pull this off means that we're only going to have a more supportive end user.
Yeah, we're just so excited by what we've been able to accomplish so far.
Yeah, a more robust supply chain, which is more important than ever given these economictimes.
(39:42):
Absolutely.
Thank you to Flynn McCarthy, our Mining Industry Advisor with the BC Net Zero InnovationNetwork, and Eric Little from Edison Motors for joining us today, sharing their visions
and most importantly, for their commitment to cleaning up Canada's heavy hauling sectors.
As an entrepreneur, I am so inspired by Eric's story.
I mean...
(40:02):
It's obvious what it takes is innovators to be bold and ambitious, to push traditionalsectors and people that are a little too comfortable making our vehicles the way they are
to do things differently.
These innovators are challenging the status quo and they're the ones that are going to getus from point A to Z, which is net zero.
If I were to leave our listeners with a final aha moment for this episode, especially ifyou're someone with influence, funding or passion to advance clean transportation, it's
(40:31):
this.
When major companies become more open to solutions for decarbonization, we must takeadvantage of the opportunity and act.
By connecting innovators and bold thinkers with industry experts and decision makers, bothat home and around the world, we accelerate meaningful progress towards a net zero
economy.
(40:52):
When people roll up their sleeves, lead by example, and dig into real solutions, theycreate the momentum that inspires change, and we all win.
On the next episode of Clean Tech Forward, why aren't proven alternative fuels likehydrogen being adopted on a broader scale?
(41:13):
We'll unpack the myths, explore the barriers, and look at what's really holding backbroader adoption of clean fuel solutions that could reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.
Add us to your playlist so you don't miss it.
Clean Tech Forward is fueled by Foresight Canada's BC Net Zero Innovation Network.
Powered by Pacific Economic Development Canada.
(41:35):
and the Government of British Columbia.
Learn more about how BC is driving the future of clean transportation at foresight cac.comslash British Columbia.
(42:00):
you
Clean Tech Forward is an everything podcasts production hosted by Jeanette Jackson andnarrated by me, Tamara Stanners.
Show runner and writer, Jessica Grechik.
Sound engineer, Jordan Wong.
Executive producer, Jennifer Smith.
(42:25):
Another Everything Podcast production.
Visit everythingpodcast.com, a division of Patterson Media.
Subscribe wherever you get your podcast.
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