May 29, 2025 • 38 mins
Foresight Podcast S01E02 - Cleantech Forward: Electrifying Public Fleets
What if garbage trucks moved in silence, school buses helped power the grid, and children could play alongside city streets free from fumes and noise? In this episode of Cleantech Forward, we explore how electrifying public fleets isn't just possible—it’s practical, impactful, and already happening in communities across BC.
Host Jeanette Jackson talks with two leaders on the front lines of fleet electrification in British Columbia: Tauseef Waraich, Manager of Green Fleet & Equipment at the City of Burnaby, shares how municipalities are overcoming budget and infrastructure challenges to transition to zero-emission service vehicles; and Rob Safrata tells us how his business, Fuse Power Management, is working to help transform fleets into clean energy assets through the power of vehicle-to-grid technology, supported by Foresight’s BC Net Zero Innovation Network.
From funding and policy to clean tech and public buy-in, this episode connects the dots behind the shift to smarter, cleaner municipal transportation.
Relevant Reports
Canada’s Ventures to Value Chains: Energy Storage for Transportation
Powering Canada’s Future with Vehicle to Grid Innovation
About the Guests
Tauseef Waraich
Tauseef Waraich is the Manager of Green Fleet & Equipment at the City of Burnaby, where he is leading key initiatives to transition the municipal fleet to low-carbon and zero-emission technologies. Under his leadership, the City is completing the infrastructure necessary for 350 EV charging stations, set to be operational by June 2025. Nearly 15% of Burnaby’s fleet has already transitioned to electric, with pilot programs underway for electric garbage trucks and medium-duty vehicles. In addition to advancing the electric vehicle transition, he is also actively reviewing other zero-emission technologies, including hydrogen fuel cell solutions, to support the City's ambitious climate action goals.
Rob Safrata
Rob Safrata is the CEO of Fuse Power Management, which turns EV fleets into AI-enabled power plants––cutting emissions, generating profits and revolutionizing grids and transportation. He is an entrepreneur with over 30 years of experience starting, acquiring and building companies by delivering a triple bottom line. He has a successful track record of integrating sustainability into businesses, a point of differentiation from competitors, driving growth and profitability. As an industry leader and speaker, Robert served as an inaugural member of Vancouver’s “Greenest City Action Team” helping guide civic economic development towards the goal of making Vancouver the greenest city in the world by 2020 and regularly shares the story of NOVEX’s transformation from a high-carbon business into an industry leader as a certified B-Corp and the greenest courier company in Canada.
About Foresight Canada
Foresight Canada helps the world do more with less, sustainably. As Canada's largest cleantech innovation and adoption accelerator, we connect public and private sectors to the world’s best clean technologies, de-risking and simplifying the adoption of innovative solutions that improve productivity, profitability, and economic competitiveness, all while addressing today’s most urgent climate challenges.
We don’t just accelerate innovation. We are innovation. From humble roots in Vancouver, Canada, Foresight has rapidly scaled into a national, globally connected non-profit, driving the adoption of sustainable innovation in major industries worldwide, working with 200+ industry partners and actively engaging with 145+ federal, provincial, and municipal governments, and Indigenous rights holders.
Since 2013, Foresight has supported 1580+ ventures, 150+ industry partners, and 300+ investor firms to deploy $2.31B in capital, achieve $570M in revenues, and create 9,430+ high-paying jobs. Our domestic and international engagement includes w
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
On a street level, can just imagine a diesel truck which is noisy, which emits fumes ofsmoke and all those kind of things.
Because they're slowing down, they're stopping every 15 seconds to pick up the garbage andrecycling.
And your kids playing all around it.
all these electric garbage trucks now, they're quiet, they're not producing any greenhousegas emissions, and they're doing the job as good as anything else.
(00:37):
Cities across BC are under pressure to electrify their municipal fleets, including busesand garbage trucks.
But limited budgets, aging infrastructure, and technology gaps make the transitionchallenging.
But when you do the math,
Fleet electrification has big wins, including lower operational costs, reduced emissions,and more resilient local energy grids, not to mention quieter streets and cleaner air for
(01:06):
all of us to enjoy.
Here in British Columbia, we're lucky to have passionate people working together toconnect the dots between the funding, technology, and infrastructure needed to accelerate
the electrification of both private and public fleets.
Helping us all breathe a little easier.
I'm Jeanette Jackson, CEO of Foresight Canada and your host of Clean Tech Forward.
(01:31):
In today's episode, we're spotlighting the City of Burnaby, a municipal leader provingthat decarbonizing fleets is possible, even with real-world budget pressures.
We'll also hear from a business leader who's pushing the boundaries of what's possiblewith vehicle-to-grid technology, a solution that could transform fleets like school buses
into clean energy assets.
(01:52):
That's all coming up in just a moment.
Welcome to Clean Tech Forward.
This season, we're exploring the challenges, opportunities and real-world solutionsshaping the future of British Columbia's clean transportation.
Join us as we talk to leaders and innovators working to accelerate BC's path to a net-zeroeconomy.
(02:16):
One that benefits people, planet and profits.
From electric buses and tugboats to alternative fuels and shared infrastructure.
Buckle up.
for an electrifying ride into the future.
Powered by Foresight Canada's BC Net Zero Innovation Network.
At Foresight Canada, we help the world do more with less sustainably.
(02:38):
The BC Net Zero Innovation Network is a first-of-its-kind ecosystem platform thataccelerates the adoption of clean technologies throughout BC's top industries.
Clean air, clean water, clean transportation.
And Net Zero economy starts here.
Since 2021, the City of Burnaby has been working towards carbon neutrality.
(03:01):
Its Climate Action Framework outlines strategies to reduce emissions from buildings, newdevelopments, and of course, its municipal fleets.
Our first guest today is helping lead that charge, working to transition the City'svehicles to cleaner technologies and reduce more than 6,000 metric tons of greenhouse gas
(03:22):
emissions.
Burnaby is showing what's possible for municipalities across BC, but not without a fewspeed bumps along the way.
My name is Tosu Forich.
I'm the manager of city fleet and equipment at the City of Burnaby.
And my current role involves overseeing the transition for municipal fleet to moresustainable and efficient alternatives, including zero emission vehicles or any other low
(03:48):
emission technologies that may arise in the future.
I do closely work with various departments, stakeholders and industry partners to ensureour fleet aligns with our climate action framework and broader strategies and goals.
that.
Now, is this something that an opportunity came and you raised your hand?
And of course, what motivates you to lean into the net zero economy?
(04:10):
My academic background is environmental engineering technology and I've got a master's inenvironment and management.
So the motivation comes from a deep passion for sustainability.
And I always look for the opportunity to create some meaningful environmental impacts.
So City of Burnaby, they've been working on the climate action framework for a long timeand I think they were looking for a suitable position.
(04:33):
So in 2021, I interviewed and moved to this position.
So I brought my passion here.
is the Burnaby Climate Action Framework.
I'll just talk very generally.
Your major sources for greenhouse gas emissions, you know, they're coming from yourbuildings, your garbage and your fleet.
Call them 30 % each, right, for discussion purposes.
(04:56):
So when that happens, then you try to find the retrofit for the existing buildings or youcome up with a policy for your brand new buildings, how you will become carbon neutral.
So there is a lot of work that's going on there.
It's going to take some time.
to get there where we want to get there.
Then you have the garbage where you have zero waste emission policy and you're trying todo zero waste, you know, so that there's no greenhouse gas emissions or minimum greenhouse
(05:20):
gas emissions.
That takes a bit of time.
And then you have the fleet portion of it.
City of Burnaby, we have our fleet, all types of fleet and equipment, and we are amedium-sized municipality.
So our greenhouse gas emissions are...
just above 6,000 metric tons.
So there's an opportunity to reduce those and have tangible results by just transitioningto electric or other suitable uh sustainable technologies and achieve those 6,000 metric
(05:47):
tons, which is quite a bit from the fleet surface side of it.
Let's spark the imagination of the folks listening because they're not thinking aboutfleets and electrification.
What would that feel like and be like for an everyday constituent?
Yeah, absolutely.
So I think you could just imagine overall the gas guzzlers fleet that roams about in thecommunity on a daily basis.
(06:09):
You you have the loaders and the backhoes operating on the roads and in the back alleysand fuming smoke.
And if you have all of this transition to electric or other sustainable technology, youknow, because when I say this, I'm also envisioning hopefully there's some hydrogen
technology that comes about in the future as well.
So from the City of Burnaby side of it, if we can reduce the 6,000 metric tons ofgreenhouse gas emissions all of a sudden, you can just imagine the environmental benefits
(06:37):
that we get from there.
On a street level, you can just imagine a diesel truck which is noisy, which emits fumesof smoke and all those kind of things.
Because they're slowing down, they're stopping every 15 seconds to pick up the garbage andrecycling, right?
And your kids playing all around it.
So all these electric garbage trucks now,
(06:58):
They're quiet, they're not producing any greenhouse gas emissions, and they're doing thejob as good as anything else.
So I think there is a difference that eventually we will see happening at the very basiclevel, the street level.
And so as you're looking to electrify and you're facing, you know, pressures of highercosts and lower margins and all these types of things, what are the biggest financial and
(07:19):
logistical hurdles that you're facing as you look to electrify your fleets?
As you said, the budget is always a constraint and especially the times that we're intoday within British Columbia and in Canada and what's happening on the south side of it.
So for the local government and municipalities, there's one challenge to reach theircarbon neutral goals, uh but within their budgets.
(07:42):
There are other priorities they have to take care of.
but then because this is something that they're serious about and they want to walk thetalk.
you you look at the EVs from the point of view that the internal combustion engines,they're cheaper than electric.
So the front end cost is more the cost of infrastructure for EV charging stations is more.
But once you have that, you know, then you can do the business analysis that, you know,they're cheaper, they're environmentally friendly and all of those things.
(08:09):
So yes, there are challenges, but when you have a goal to reach at.
there are efficient ways where you can use the accountability principles and transparencyprinciples to reach there.
Absolutely.
And what about things like policy and the infrastructure or supply chain?
How's that piece of the puzzle coming together?
So if you look at from policy side of it, we have the federal goal and provincial goal ofcarbon neutrality by 2050.
(08:34):
So City of Burnaby, the past the climate action framework and city energy strategy in2021, and started to work on this path of carbon neutral.
So the challenges in terms of light duty vehicles, as you can see, we have optionsavailable, you know, for sedan cars and the other ones, F-150, lightning and all those
things, right?
(08:54):
But...
we do have challenges when it comes to medium duty vehicles and heavy duty vehicles andequipment, specialized equipment and all those other things.
So the technology is still in it works and it's happening for the municipalities becausewe have a level of service to provide.
we don't have the
opportunity to just take risks uh from this end of it.
(09:18):
So we need to see some proven technology.
So that's one thing.
So availability of technology.
You mentioned the supply chain that's certainly an issue, uh was an issue during COVID.
Everybody remembers that chip issue that halted the supply and still.
Now, uh I think it's a norm that when you order a vehicle, there is no guarantee that itwill reach at certain times.
(09:39):
So a lot of times the dealers and the vendors, they don't even commit to a date.
And so that becomes a challenge when you have an approved budget in certain year andyou're purchasing something that doesn't arrive in that year.
So that is a realistic challenge.
I think the infrastructure is the other one where you have, uh if it's a limited grid,
at your site and it can slow down the deployment of your EV program overall.
(10:02):
EV charging station infrastructure are an expensive way to look at it.
With that challenge, it takes time.
So there are challenges, but with policy, just like I mentioned, have, know, federalgovernment has a plan for it, provincial government working on it, local governments
working on it.
So I think it's a doable thing.
Yeah.
No, I know what you mean.
Funny story.
I actually sold my electric vehicle about six weeks ago and I thought, okay, I'll go startexploring, you know, what else is out there.
(10:31):
And of course electric.
And I'm realizing I actually probably have to wait six months for something that comes in.
Absolutely.
Would you say that that's one of the main differences between, you know, an averageconsumer and municipality responsible?
for providing services to community, that certainty around supply chain and making surethat when you order something, you get it at the right time?
(10:55):
Are there other differences or nuances between you as a municipality buyer versus aneveryday consumer that also exists?
I think for a general consumer, know, it's one thing, um you know, to purchase a vehicle,they can go at a local dealer and pick something up.
From our side of it, we have to be fair.
So obviously, the bids have to be out, you know, somebody has to put a proposal in, andthen it depends on what they're saying.
(11:21):
So you have to compare and market from that end.
So I think for us,
A lot of people from outside, they kind of say, hey, have you bought Lightning?
no, I'm waiting for it.
Oh, but I saw one at Lead Deutorship, but that's not how we purchase it.
So there is a difference that we can't really just do the window shopping on one end ofit.
But I think from a private end of it and from the public end of it, the other differenceis that if the business decision from the private organization, if that works out, if
(11:46):
there are wise return on investment, if they work on.
uh on those and they're good enough.
But for the public municipalities, know, we have to navigate the public accountability,the regulatory requirements and long-term sustainability commitments.
So we have to look at those, you know, when we're moving towards the CV.
So it becomes a little bit more challenging than the private organization.
(12:08):
Despite the differences between public and private obligations when it comes toelectrifying fleets, they do have two things in common.
The desire to create a better future and to make sure the bottom line makes sense.
Vehicle to Grid Technology, also known as V2G, is an emerging technology that turns parkedEVs into mobile batteries, feeding energy back into the grid and creating new revenue
(12:36):
streams.
It's a game changer with massive potential.
And one BC-based company is working to bring it to fleets across Canada with support fromForsyte's BC Net Zero Innovation Network.
Hi, I'm Rob Zafrata.
I started Fuse Power last year to solve one of the most exciting challenges to theelectric grid over the next few decades, which is using vehicle batteries to power our
(13:04):
grid.
So Rob and I have known each other for a little while now and he's definitely spearheadingsome incredible projects throughout BC and beyond when it comes to clean transportation.
Why don't you share a little bit more about your projects over the last few years becauseI know you're dabbling in a few.
I hadn't planned on it, but I looked at a number of companies and I purchased a localsame-day courier company in the year 2000.
(13:29):
Now, I'm going to shift over here.
Why do people do things that are environmental or green?
Everyone comes at it from a different starting point.
I got into it because I'm a very lucky fellow.
The woman I've been married to now for over 40 years is the founding chair of EcoTrustCanada.
And when I bought a local same-day courier company, she said, why did you buy thispolluting business?
(13:52):
and immediately it dawned on me because I can clean it up.
I've decided that what I do is I buy dirty companies and clean them up and this has becomea cause for me.
Bob's passion for cleaning up dirty fleets led him to discover the promise ofvehicle-to-grid technology.
(14:12):
And now, he's working on bringing it to the masses.
Yes, and again to explain how did I come to it.
Novex Courier, we have a number of hybrid and electric, mainly cars, and that worksbecause the electric car price is similar to a gas equivalent more or less, and then the
maintenance and fuel is lower.
(14:33):
So the couriers do that because it's a good business decision.
However, with West Coast Sightseeing, I bought an 09, 60 large, I'll say it, you old,terrible tour buses.
I was really trying to figure out for the better part of six years now, how could Itransition the entire fleet to electric?
(14:53):
There weren't enough grants, there was not enough maintenance or fuel savings that I couldfigure out or any other things that could get me close to doing that.
However, the revenue from vehicle to grid will enable that.
And I realized a couple of years ago, this was a reasonably significant project on theside of my desk that
(15:15):
This was way bigger than us.
This issue was way bigger than our fleet.
This should be for everyone.
So that's how Fuse was created to help solve for everyone.
And we're focusing mainly across Canada.
I'm in Halifax recently, often in Ontario, Quebec, and working mainly though with BCHydro.
(15:36):
And so now we work on this, the full solution set for any fleet.
So with vehicle to grid being an emerging sort of solution, why don't you sort of sharewith us how it works and why it can be a real game changer for municipalities?
This has to be, for me, one of the most exciting opportunities in front of us for many,many reasons.
(16:00):
And it's a solution for many things, whether they're economic or health, um sound, know,quiet, a better working condition.
So school buses are the simplest application to understand.
School buses typically drive two hours, then they rest, then two hours, then they're done.
(16:21):
And they really go 50 to 100 kilometers would be 80 % of them.
That's it.
And yet they can go 300 kilometers, which means there's a lot of capacity sitting in thebatteries when they're parked.
There's been tests done in rollouts in North America and Europe.
(16:41):
And in the United States, a school bus parked was earning $125 an hour sitting there,giving power.
Well, that's probably more than it nets when it's driving kids to school and everything.
That changes my business uh plan if I'm a school bus owner, big time.
Now I can, boy, I can easily afford an electric school bus because I'm making so much moreout of it than just driving.
(17:08):
Okay.
So that's one example.
Then recently the Pacific Northwest National Lab.
highly, highly credible lab in California.
They did a very complete study and the summary is this, in their first sentence.
When all school buses in the United States are electric, there are 500,000 of them, thatis equivalent to 61.5 gigawatts of power available to peak shave on the grid.
(17:34):
Well, 61.5 gigawatts is more than BC and hydro use, just to give some kind of context.
So the scale of this, will be a vehicle to grid will be in future a as big and important acomponent of utility and power supply as solar and wind and stationary storage are today.
(17:56):
It will be an integral part of the future grid.
When you hear numbers like that, it's clear.
Vehicle-to-grid technology isn't just innovative, it's transformational.
For municipalities and private fleets alike, it's a chance to cut costs, reduce emissions,and support increasing demands on the grid.
(18:19):
But scaling to thousands of V2G-ready vehicles across B.C., that will take time,investment, and collaboration.
That's exactly what Rob and his team at Fuse are working toward with help from partnerslike BC Hydro.
You know, you've got a big ambition to have hundreds of vehicles, uh know, of electricbuses and fleet vehicles part of this vehicle to grid network.
(18:45):
Today you're at two.
How is that going to work?
And what are the next steps to get you to where you want to be?
I have to compliment Steve Kehoe at BC Hydro and Kari Marjashar.
They've really been our internal champions there and I want to give them a shout out andtherefore BC Hydro.
90 % of what we're doing is what they wanted to explore, to know about or, you know, toanswer.
(19:08):
And so yes, we've had to, and that's why I was introduced to BC Hydro six years ago.
And then I wanted to get more and talking to them and could they help?
And Steve Kehoe said, well Rob,
I want 40 electric buses from you.
And I answered quickly, well, that's great because when I have electric ones, I'll need 50and you can have 40 in the winter.
(19:31):
And BC Hydro's winter peaking and Steve did his calculations and came and said, look, letme use 40 of them for 10 years in the winter for six months.
I'll take them to Hope BC constrained substation.
And their calculations are it'll peak shave by 20 % having those 40 batteries.
plugged in together and being able to give power to the grid at peak time.
(19:55):
And it's less expensive for him, the amount he would have to pay us for us to get the 40,than it is to do the other things like upgrading the station.
hopefully those cost savings eventually transfer down to the consumer.
think, know, in BC in particular, we're pretty lucky.
We're used to having, it feels like unlimited power, but a lot of people don't realizethose days are numbered, right?
(20:18):
Unless we want to build more sightseed dams.
If you are living in a region like California, there are periods of brownouts andblackouts and, you know, things shut off and you're, or you're paying.
dare I say an arm and a leg.
So no, I think it's incredible that BC Hydro has really opened up on that innovationcomponent and looking at the future of not only clean transportation, but the role clean
(20:42):
transportation plays for the broader clean energy story.
And there's one other thing, now we're getting the nut of it, one other thing that noother source of electricity gives you except for a vehicle to grid.
And that's this.
I carry this on my bag.
People know me by this.
This is a portable air quality monitor.
people, when I show this, they think he's nuts, but then they remember me and I take itwherever I go.
(21:06):
So I carry this around and show it because we don't know it's invisible.
And yet.
more people die in the world from air pollution than climate change, and that's not goingto change soon.
And vehicle to grid is the best way to have healthier air.
There's many different measurements.
(21:26):
New York City estimates that when all vehicles are electric in the city, in New York City,they'll save 6.2 billion annually in healthcare.
really puts things into perspective when you look at that opportunity cost and the realitythat, you know, traditional vehicles, it's not only about the raw materials coming out of
the ground and the CO2, it's about long-term health for our communities.
(21:50):
For the City of Burnaby and other municipalities working to electrify their fleets,Vehicle to Grid has the potential to not only help alleviate budget issues, but also
improve air quality and provide backup power during emergencies.
However promising, V2G is still very much a work in progress.
(22:11):
The full ecosystem isn't in place yet, but the pieces are coming together.
from policy and funding models to pilot projects and partnerships.
And the road ahead is starting to take shape.
So City of Burnaby, you're leading this mandate uh and obviously we're looking atdifferent ways to leverage infrastructure for the greater good.
(22:32):
Vehicle to grid technology is a really interesting opportunity for communities.
I guess on the one side, you'll be able to access power from different distributednetworks.
On the flip side, maybe you can get a new revenue stream for the community.
BC is still working on it.
We have the pilots going on.
(22:53):
BC Hydro is working on with different partners like Coast to Coast or Lion Electric andmany others and they're working on to make it happen.
at the end of the day if that can happen is because a lot of times the question comes thenwhen you're transitioning your whole fleet to electric, what happens if there's an
earthquake and there's a shutdown of electricity for a few days or something?
How are you going to keep your electric fleet going as well as other things?
(23:17):
This V2G technology, if that happens, then you can actually supply electricity to some ofyour community centres, right, for example.
uh Or you have a tent there and you can provide that electricity out there.
I'm hoping, and one of the wishlists is that, you know, you can probably charge some ofthese electric other smaller vehicles from this bigger vehicle.
So this is a groundbreaking technology.
(23:39):
I think that's something that we're all waiting for and I hope that it really happens.
Yeah, I kind of envision it like it's like a whole reimagining all of our energyinfrastructure.
now that you have energy at your fingertips for emergency situations, you know, or ifthere's a blackout in part of the city, making sure you can move power easily, you know,
(24:00):
to those stations to those central hubs using all these, you know, backgroundtechnologies.
Yeah, it's incredible.
Absolutely.
When it comes to funding models for fleet electrification projects, it turns out theoptions are plentiful in BC.
Government grants, incentives and carbon credits are just a few of the resources publicand private fleet operators can tap into.
(24:25):
So let's talk a little bit about funding models.
So you obviously have your existing, you know, annual operating and capital planningbudgets.
I'm a little bit familiar with municipal operations.
I sat on the board of the police department here in Port Moody for four years, and youreally start to see the connectivity and expectations from constituents.
(24:46):
So what funding models do exist?
There are several funding mechanisms that do exist and that includes the federal andprovincial grants, uh green bonds, leasing options and partnerships with utility
providers.
An example is the joint procurement model where multiple municipalities pool resources andnegotiate better pricing.
(25:08):
So there are opportunities there.
And then in terms of funding, you have a provincial Clean BC Go electric funding.
There is a federal funding, it's incentives for medium and heavy duty zero emissionvehicles, IMHEZ, something like that, that EV.
uh And then there is zero emission vehicle infrastructure program that exists.
I'll give you an example that we wanted to pilot with an electric garbage truck.
(25:32):
And we wanted to see how that works.
Now, the internal combustion diesel engine powered garbage truck, which would cost aroundhalf a million dollar, electric is almost double the price.
When it's a double the price, that's a cost prohibitive thing to go ahead and how to getthat approved.
But we almost got like $300,000 in funding from provincial and federal government uh thatreally helped the business case for this truck.
(25:57):
And when you combine that funding and also look at the life cycle, less operating costs,less downtime and everything, you become winner right in the beginning.
Fundings are the most important thing, especially for the municipalities too, when they'relooking into transitioning.
One last thing is the carbon credits.
So if you own some EV charging stations, for example, city of Burnaby, have almost at theend of June, we'll probably have around 350 EV charging stations, level two, some level
(26:26):
three as well.
And when we are putting that electricity into our vehicles and we're running it, we canclaim the carbon credits.
So that becomes more, so we can actually do more investment into the infrastructure.
into the EV charging, into the EV transitioning as well.
So all of these fundings, they really help.
if anybody's listening in the municipal sector or even private sector, know, those thingsare available for EV transitioning.
(26:51):
Would you say that's one of the first things that a municipality partner can do is startto really look at there's business cases and business models that actually work and
incentives out there.
Would that be where you recommend folks leading these initiatives go?
Absolutely, know, it's always a good start.
Always keep an eye on it.
(27:12):
um You know, look for more partnerships.
For example, BC Hydro, you know, they can, they do a lot of partnerships with the localmunicipalities if you're trying to put in some public charging stations, know, BC Hydro
and even private sectors, there are many partnerships that are available, whether it'sthe, it's locating the site or putting the actual infrastructure on.
So, you know, it's wonderful at this moment.
(27:32):
And that's why, you know, just loving the,
British Columbia support system and the under federal support system.
Supporting each other in our efforts to decarbonize transportation benefits everyone inthe long run.
That's why collaboration is so important for progress.
Whether it's municipalities working together to negotiate better pricing, or the privateand public sectors sharing solutions everyone can use.
(28:02):
can the private sector, businesses, large industry do to better support municipalities whowant to embark on this journey?
Yeah, I think it's a teamwork, as you mentioned, and the private industry plays a crucialrole in providing this technology, investment, uh infrastructure, solutions, and even
financial models.
There are local companies, bi-Canadian, they're local companies.
(28:26):
They specialize in fleet electrification.
They offer consulting services, for example.
You know, there are energy providers, there are hardware providers.
So all of those, you know, when you put them all together, you become a team.
and it really becomes a teamwork to uh transition into electric.
Is there something that can happen at the policy level, whether it's municipal,provincial, or federal, that could accelerate fleet electrification for you?
(28:55):
So I think, you know, talking about the legislations and policies from British Columbia,they said, you know, by 2035, all your light duty vehicles, need to be electric, right?
So those are good thing to have.
We know that Metro Vancouver is working with the municipalities.
We are partners with them to looking into the medium duty and heavy duty fleet andequipment.
(29:17):
And I think...
looking at from the policy side of it.
And one of the just example of the house owners, know, Metro Vancouver is looking at thepolicy where they can ban those gas mowers, right, and the gas trimmers.
So that is at the policy level when you go to Canadian Tire or Home Depot or anywhereelse, gas ones will not be available.
So less noise, less greenhouse gas emissions, uh and the only thing available that wouldbe electric.
(29:42):
So I think that will happen.
and translate into the medium duty and heavy duty fleet and equipment as well eventuallywhere you will have the or probably you'll only have the options to buy sustainable and
more innovative technologies into the fleet and equipment.
So policies that drive economies of scale, which therefore, you know, allow us to savesome money when we're going through the transition phase.
(30:06):
As you're looking at your strategy to transition your fleet and look at new technology,are there other cities or regions across Canada globally that inspire you or that you've
learned some really interesting things from to inform your strategy?
I think there are cities around us, city Vancouver, uh know, city of Coquitlam, city ofAbbotsford, a lot of municipalities they're working towards these um and I think we are
(30:34):
learning from each other.
I would say city of Burnaby, I would call it that you know we pretty much are the leadersin this transition and I can tell you why because we have about like 350 EV charging
stations infrastructure.
So major task is to get the infrastructure in so that you can enroll into EV transition.
right away.
So we are ready to adapt and we're ready to accept if there's a technology available interms of light duty, medium duty and heavy duty.
(31:03):
uh We have level two charging stations as well as level three charging stations.
That means that we can charge our garbage trucks or heavy duty equipment as well.
So we have been transitioning to light duty vehicles.
We've been transitioning into smaller equipment.
So yeah, so we've been doing all of this and I think
because the City of Burnaby also thought about that it's going to take some time to get tothe zero emission vehicles because of technology availability.
(31:29):
We talked about the supply chain issues.
We talked about budget constraints and all of those.
So what do we do in the interim?
So in the interim, we have switched from the regular diesel to R100, which is a hydrogenderived renewable diesel, which can reduce all the way up to 80 % of greenhouse gas
emissions.
So City of Burnaby is doing a lot.
um Actually, and I'm very proud that our council and senior management, you know, they'reon the same page uh for this carbon neutrality purpose.
(31:57):
With all of these critical components coming together and innovative minds like Rob andTosif in the driver's seat, a future full of electrified fleets, both public and private,
may be closer than we think.
think in the next decade or so I envision widespread uh adoption of EV acrossmunicipalities, fleets and even bigger organizations.
(32:22):
And they're supported by the robust charging networks, not just locally but outside in theneighboring municipalities and facilities as well.
And hopefully a smart grid integration from BC Hydro or from the other private entities.
And I think this will shift uh not only from reducing the emissions but also creating
new opportunities for innovation and job growth in the clean energy sector.
(32:44):
So Rob, it's so important that you're bringing your tangible business owner experienceinto communities.
What do you see as a possible vision for the BC Lower Mainland to really electrifyeverything over the next 10, 15 years?
BC Transit had four electric buses for a while.
(33:05):
you know, got to, smart to walk before you run.
So get one, uh drive one for sure.
Get one or lease or, you know, lot of the bus companies will give it to you for free for amonth, you know, to try.
Beyond that, you got to make it someone's job description.
You have to make a bold plan and learn about it.
And so when I say make it someone's job description, uh not full-time necessarily, but
(33:31):
Okay, we want to report every month or quarter what you're learning, what's the businesscase, and to start learning because this doesn't have to happen next year.
No one's going to order a hundred.
That would be not a smart thing to do.
However, they could certainly transition their entire fleet over the next five or sixyears and make a significant difference.
(33:51):
can't, I don't have enough time today, but I cannot say enough about the social, thetriple bottom line, the social impact, not just the environmental.
the social impact of having these electric vehicles.
Everyone in the company is proud that your company has it.
You get better resumes, you get lower turnover, you get better drivers, you get pride.
(34:12):
Customers love it.
You know, I used to get thumbs up when I had one of the first electric courier vehicles,and that's not usually what you get when you're a courier driver.
There's a mandate to decarbonize, to look at innovation, to improve the operationalefficiency, as well as meet some of these other targets.
And that's sort of why the BC Net Zero Innovation Network was created, to bring in thatcapacity and help take these initiatives to the next level.
(34:38):
Because once you get some momentum, then it's easier to get buy-in from more decisionmakers, whether it's within the team or your customer base or, you know, your broader
stakeholder group.
And I have found, Jeanette, since 2000, that with other companies, it's the one topicwhere other companies are very willing to share what they've learned, even if they're
(35:00):
competitors, because it's important.
It's bigger than us.
It's about more than us.
It's about more than our profits.
So I would like to put a shout out that that information is very robustly shared and weshould help each other.
We can and should help each other.
Thank you to Rob Sifrata from Fuse Power Management and Tosi Forage from the City ofBurnaby for joining me today and for the important work they're doing to drive innovation
(35:26):
and bring cleaner air to communities across BC.
It's through collaborations like these that we're turning big ideas into real impact.
One battery, one engine, one vehicle and one fleet at a time.
One of the things I love about the transportation sector is people are working together tosolve these problems.
whether it's Rob and his team at Fuse or some of the other incredible innovators acrossour BC ecosystem.
(35:52):
People are passionate about clean transportation and getting those technologies andsolutions deployed today.
While climate targets are ambitious, the reality is action starts on the ground inmunicipalities.
And this is why the work that the City of Burnaby is doing is so amazing.
We can imagine a future where
All of the service vehicles in our communities, they're quiet and they're clean ah and youcan actually hear your kids laughing and hear the birds chirping.
(36:18):
And I think this is something that all of us can look forward to as well as healthierenvironments that we all live, work and play in.
If I were to leave our listeners with a final aha moment for this episode, especially ifyou're someone with influence, funding or passion to advance clean transportation, it's
this.
Accelerating the adoption of electric fleets shouldn't be a competition.
(36:39):
It should be a collaboration.
We all win when we share knowledge, align resources, and support the solutions that arealready working.
That's exactly what the BC Net Zero Innovation Network is here to do.
Connect the people, technologies, and ideas that can move us further, faster.
Whether you're a company making smart, sustainable business decisions, or a municipalitytrying to hit climate goals without breaking the budget, we all share the same end game.
(37:05):
A cleaner, more resilient, and prosperous future
for people and planet.
So let's make it happen, together.
On the next episode of Clean Tech Forward, ports and shipping are among the biggestbarriers to decarbonizing BC's transportation system.
How can we change that?
(37:26):
Let's explore solutions that will transform BC into a leader of sustainable shipping.
Add us to your playlist so you don't miss it.
Clean Tech Forward is fueled by Foresight Canada's BC Net Zero Innovation Network, poweredby Pacific Economic Development Canada and the Government of British Columbia.
(37:46):
Learn more about how BC is driving the future of clean transportation at ForesightCAC.comslash British Columbia.
you
you
(38:10):
you
Clean Tech Forward is an everything podcasts production hosted by Jeanette Jackson andnarrated by me, Tamara Stanners.
Show runner and writer, Jessica Grechik.
Sound engineer, Jordan Wong.
Executive producer, Jennifer Smith.
(38:35):
other everything.
Hi.
podcast production.
Visit everything podcast.com
Division of Patterson Media.
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Get your podcast.
On a street level, can just imagine a diesel truck which is noisy, which emits fumes ofsmoke and all those kind of things.
Because they're slowing down, they're stopping every 15 seconds to pick up the garbage andrecycling.
And your kids playing all around it.
all these electric garbage trucks now, they're quiet, they're not producing any greenhousegas emissions, and they're doing the job as good as anything else.
(00:37):
Cities across BC are under pressure to electrify their municipal fleets, including busesand garbage trucks.
But limited budgets, aging infrastructure, and technology gaps make the transitionchallenging.
But when you do the math,
Fleet electrification has big wins, including lower operational costs, reduced emissions,and more resilient local energy grids, not to mention quieter streets and cleaner air for
(01:06):
all of us to enjoy.
Here in British Columbia, we're lucky to have passionate people working together toconnect the dots between the funding, technology, and infrastructure needed to accelerate
the electrification of both private and public fleets.
Helping us all breathe a little easier.
I'm Jeanette Jackson, CEO of Foresight Canada and your host of Clean Tech Forward.
(01:31):
In today's episode, we're spotlighting the City of Burnaby, a municipal leader provingthat decarbonizing fleets is possible, even with real-world budget pressures.
We'll also hear from a business leader who's pushing the boundaries of what's possiblewith vehicle-to-grid technology, a solution that could transform fleets like school buses
into clean energy assets.
(01:52):
That's all coming up in just a moment.
Welcome to Clean Tech Forward.
This season, we're exploring the challenges, opportunities and real-world solutionsshaping the future of British Columbia's clean transportation.
Join us as we talk to leaders and innovators working to accelerate BC's path to a net-zeroeconomy.
(02:16):
One that benefits people, planet and profits.
From electric buses and tugboats to alternative fuels and shared infrastructure.
Buckle up.
for an electrifying ride into the future.
Powered by Foresight Canada's BC Net Zero Innovation Network.
At Foresight Canada, we help the world do more with less sustainably.
(02:38):
The BC Net Zero Innovation Network is a first-of-its-kind ecosystem platform thataccelerates the adoption of clean technologies throughout BC's top industries.
Clean air, clean water, clean transportation.
And Net Zero economy starts here.
Since 2021, the City of Burnaby has been working towards carbon neutrality.
(03:01):
Its Climate Action Framework outlines strategies to reduce emissions from buildings, newdevelopments, and of course, its municipal fleets.
Our first guest today is helping lead that charge, working to transition the City'svehicles to cleaner technologies and reduce more than 6,000 metric tons of greenhouse gas
(03:22):
emissions.
Burnaby is showing what's possible for municipalities across BC, but not without a fewspeed bumps along the way.
My name is Tosu Forich.
I'm the manager of city fleet and equipment at the City of Burnaby.
And my current role involves overseeing the transition for municipal fleet to moresustainable and efficient alternatives, including zero emission vehicles or any other low
(03:48):
emission technologies that may arise in the future.
I do closely work with various departments, stakeholders and industry partners to ensureour fleet aligns with our climate action framework and broader strategies and goals.
that.
Now, is this something that an opportunity came and you raised your hand?
And of course, what motivates you to lean into the net zero economy?
(04:10):
My academic background is environmental engineering technology and I've got a master's inenvironment and management.
So the motivation comes from a deep passion for sustainability.
And I always look for the opportunity to create some meaningful environmental impacts.
So City of Burnaby, they've been working on the climate action framework for a long timeand I think they were looking for a suitable position.
(04:33):
So in 2021, I interviewed and moved to this position.
So I brought my passion here.
is the Burnaby Climate Action Framework.
I'll just talk very generally.
Your major sources for greenhouse gas emissions, you know, they're coming from yourbuildings, your garbage and your fleet.
Call them 30 % each, right, for discussion purposes.
(04:56):
So when that happens, then you try to find the retrofit for the existing buildings or youcome up with a policy for your brand new buildings, how you will become carbon neutral.
So there is a lot of work that's going on there.
It's going to take some time.
to get there where we want to get there.
Then you have the garbage where you have zero waste emission policy and you're trying todo zero waste, you know, so that there's no greenhouse gas emissions or minimum greenhouse
(05:20):
gas emissions.
That takes a bit of time.
And then you have the fleet portion of it.
City of Burnaby, we have our fleet, all types of fleet and equipment, and we are amedium-sized municipality.
So our greenhouse gas emissions are...
just above 6,000 metric tons.
So there's an opportunity to reduce those and have tangible results by just transitioningto electric or other suitable uh sustainable technologies and achieve those 6,000 metric
(05:47):
tons, which is quite a bit from the fleet surface side of it.
Let's spark the imagination of the folks listening because they're not thinking aboutfleets and electrification.
What would that feel like and be like for an everyday constituent?
Yeah, absolutely.
So I think you could just imagine overall the gas guzzlers fleet that roams about in thecommunity on a daily basis.
(06:09):
You you have the loaders and the backhoes operating on the roads and in the back alleysand fuming smoke.
And if you have all of this transition to electric or other sustainable technology, youknow, because when I say this, I'm also envisioning hopefully there's some hydrogen
technology that comes about in the future as well.
So from the City of Burnaby side of it, if we can reduce the 6,000 metric tons ofgreenhouse gas emissions all of a sudden, you can just imagine the environmental benefits
(06:37):
that we get from there.
On a street level, you can just imagine a diesel truck which is noisy, which emits fumesof smoke and all those kind of things.
Because they're slowing down, they're stopping every 15 seconds to pick up the garbage andrecycling, right?
And your kids playing all around it.
So all these electric garbage trucks now,
(06:58):
They're quiet, they're not producing any greenhouse gas emissions, and they're doing thejob as good as anything else.
So I think there is a difference that eventually we will see happening at the very basiclevel, the street level.
And so as you're looking to electrify and you're facing, you know, pressures of highercosts and lower margins and all these types of things, what are the biggest financial and
(07:19):
logistical hurdles that you're facing as you look to electrify your fleets?
As you said, the budget is always a constraint and especially the times that we're intoday within British Columbia and in Canada and what's happening on the south side of it.
So for the local government and municipalities, there's one challenge to reach theircarbon neutral goals, uh but within their budgets.
(07:42):
There are other priorities they have to take care of.
but then because this is something that they're serious about and they want to walk thetalk.
you you look at the EVs from the point of view that the internal combustion engines,they're cheaper than electric.
So the front end cost is more the cost of infrastructure for EV charging stations is more.
But once you have that, you know, then you can do the business analysis that, you know,they're cheaper, they're environmentally friendly and all of those things.
(08:09):
So yes, there are challenges, but when you have a goal to reach at.
there are efficient ways where you can use the accountability principles and transparencyprinciples to reach there.
Absolutely.
And what about things like policy and the infrastructure or supply chain?
How's that piece of the puzzle coming together?
So if you look at from policy side of it, we have the federal goal and provincial goal ofcarbon neutrality by 2050.
(08:34):
So City of Burnaby, the past the climate action framework and city energy strategy in2021, and started to work on this path of carbon neutral.
So the challenges in terms of light duty vehicles, as you can see, we have optionsavailable, you know, for sedan cars and the other ones, F-150, lightning and all those
things, right?
(08:54):
But...
we do have challenges when it comes to medium duty vehicles and heavy duty vehicles andequipment, specialized equipment and all those other things.
So the technology is still in it works and it's happening for the municipalities becausewe have a level of service to provide.
we don't have the
opportunity to just take risks uh from this end of it.
(09:18):
So we need to see some proven technology.
So that's one thing.
So availability of technology.
You mentioned the supply chain that's certainly an issue, uh was an issue during COVID.
Everybody remembers that chip issue that halted the supply and still.
Now, uh I think it's a norm that when you order a vehicle, there is no guarantee that itwill reach at certain times.
(09:39):
So a lot of times the dealers and the vendors, they don't even commit to a date.
And so that becomes a challenge when you have an approved budget in certain year andyou're purchasing something that doesn't arrive in that year.
So that is a realistic challenge.
I think the infrastructure is the other one where you have, uh if it's a limited grid,
at your site and it can slow down the deployment of your EV program overall.
(10:02):
EV charging station infrastructure are an expensive way to look at it.
With that challenge, it takes time.
So there are challenges, but with policy, just like I mentioned, have, know, federalgovernment has a plan for it, provincial government working on it, local governments
working on it.
So I think it's a doable thing.
Yeah.
No, I know what you mean.
Funny story.
I actually sold my electric vehicle about six weeks ago and I thought, okay, I'll go startexploring, you know, what else is out there.
(10:31):
And of course electric.
And I'm realizing I actually probably have to wait six months for something that comes in.
Absolutely.
Would you say that that's one of the main differences between, you know, an averageconsumer and municipality responsible?
for providing services to community, that certainty around supply chain and making surethat when you order something, you get it at the right time?
(10:55):
Are there other differences or nuances between you as a municipality buyer versus aneveryday consumer that also exists?
I think for a general consumer, know, it's one thing, um you know, to purchase a vehicle,they can go at a local dealer and pick something up.
From our side of it, we have to be fair.
So obviously, the bids have to be out, you know, somebody has to put a proposal in, andthen it depends on what they're saying.
(11:21):
So you have to compare and market from that end.
So I think for us,
A lot of people from outside, they kind of say, hey, have you bought Lightning?
no, I'm waiting for it.
Oh, but I saw one at Lead Deutorship, but that's not how we purchase it.
So there is a difference that we can't really just do the window shopping on one end ofit.
But I think from a private end of it and from the public end of it, the other differenceis that if the business decision from the private organization, if that works out, if
(11:46):
there are wise return on investment, if they work on.
uh on those and they're good enough.
But for the public municipalities, know, we have to navigate the public accountability,the regulatory requirements and long-term sustainability commitments.
So we have to look at those, you know, when we're moving towards the CV.
So it becomes a little bit more challenging than the private organization.
(12:08):
Despite the differences between public and private obligations when it comes toelectrifying fleets, they do have two things in common.
The desire to create a better future and to make sure the bottom line makes sense.
Vehicle to Grid Technology, also known as V2G, is an emerging technology that turns parkedEVs into mobile batteries, feeding energy back into the grid and creating new revenue
(12:36):
streams.
It's a game changer with massive potential.
And one BC-based company is working to bring it to fleets across Canada with support fromForsyte's BC Net Zero Innovation Network.
Hi, I'm Rob Zafrata.
I started Fuse Power last year to solve one of the most exciting challenges to theelectric grid over the next few decades, which is using vehicle batteries to power our
(13:04):
grid.
So Rob and I have known each other for a little while now and he's definitely spearheadingsome incredible projects throughout BC and beyond when it comes to clean transportation.
Why don't you share a little bit more about your projects over the last few years becauseI know you're dabbling in a few.
I hadn't planned on it, but I looked at a number of companies and I purchased a localsame-day courier company in the year 2000.
(13:29):
Now, I'm going to shift over here.
Why do people do things that are environmental or green?
Everyone comes at it from a different starting point.
I got into it because I'm a very lucky fellow.
The woman I've been married to now for over 40 years is the founding chair of EcoTrustCanada.
And when I bought a local same-day courier company, she said, why did you buy thispolluting business?
(13:52):
and immediately it dawned on me because I can clean it up.
I've decided that what I do is I buy dirty companies and clean them up and this has becomea cause for me.
Bob's passion for cleaning up dirty fleets led him to discover the promise ofvehicle-to-grid technology.
(14:12):
And now, he's working on bringing it to the masses.
Yes, and again to explain how did I come to it.
Novex Courier, we have a number of hybrid and electric, mainly cars, and that worksbecause the electric car price is similar to a gas equivalent more or less, and then the
maintenance and fuel is lower.
(14:33):
So the couriers do that because it's a good business decision.
However, with West Coast Sightseeing, I bought an 09, 60 large, I'll say it, you old,terrible tour buses.
I was really trying to figure out for the better part of six years now, how could Itransition the entire fleet to electric?
(14:53):
There weren't enough grants, there was not enough maintenance or fuel savings that I couldfigure out or any other things that could get me close to doing that.
However, the revenue from vehicle to grid will enable that.
And I realized a couple of years ago, this was a reasonably significant project on theside of my desk that
(15:15):
This was way bigger than us.
This issue was way bigger than our fleet.
This should be for everyone.
So that's how Fuse was created to help solve for everyone.
And we're focusing mainly across Canada.
I'm in Halifax recently, often in Ontario, Quebec, and working mainly though with BCHydro.
(15:36):
And so now we work on this, the full solution set for any fleet.
So with vehicle to grid being an emerging sort of solution, why don't you sort of sharewith us how it works and why it can be a real game changer for municipalities?
This has to be, for me, one of the most exciting opportunities in front of us for many,many reasons.
(16:00):
And it's a solution for many things, whether they're economic or health, um sound, know,quiet, a better working condition.
So school buses are the simplest application to understand.
School buses typically drive two hours, then they rest, then two hours, then they're done.
(16:21):
And they really go 50 to 100 kilometers would be 80 % of them.
That's it.
And yet they can go 300 kilometers, which means there's a lot of capacity sitting in thebatteries when they're parked.
There's been tests done in rollouts in North America and Europe.
(16:41):
And in the United States, a school bus parked was earning $125 an hour sitting there,giving power.
Well, that's probably more than it nets when it's driving kids to school and everything.
That changes my business uh plan if I'm a school bus owner, big time.
Now I can, boy, I can easily afford an electric school bus because I'm making so much moreout of it than just driving.
(17:08):
Okay.
So that's one example.
Then recently the Pacific Northwest National Lab.
highly, highly credible lab in California.
They did a very complete study and the summary is this, in their first sentence.
When all school buses in the United States are electric, there are 500,000 of them, thatis equivalent to 61.5 gigawatts of power available to peak shave on the grid.
(17:34):
Well, 61.5 gigawatts is more than BC and hydro use, just to give some kind of context.
So the scale of this, will be a vehicle to grid will be in future a as big and important acomponent of utility and power supply as solar and wind and stationary storage are today.
(17:56):
It will be an integral part of the future grid.
When you hear numbers like that, it's clear.
Vehicle-to-grid technology isn't just innovative, it's transformational.
For municipalities and private fleets alike, it's a chance to cut costs, reduce emissions,and support increasing demands on the grid.
(18:19):
But scaling to thousands of V2G-ready vehicles across B.C., that will take time,investment, and collaboration.
That's exactly what Rob and his team at Fuse are working toward with help from partnerslike BC Hydro.
You know, you've got a big ambition to have hundreds of vehicles, uh know, of electricbuses and fleet vehicles part of this vehicle to grid network.
(18:45):
Today you're at two.
How is that going to work?
And what are the next steps to get you to where you want to be?
I have to compliment Steve Kehoe at BC Hydro and Kari Marjashar.
They've really been our internal champions there and I want to give them a shout out andtherefore BC Hydro.
90 % of what we're doing is what they wanted to explore, to know about or, you know, toanswer.
(19:08):
And so yes, we've had to, and that's why I was introduced to BC Hydro six years ago.
And then I wanted to get more and talking to them and could they help?
And Steve Kehoe said, well Rob,
I want 40 electric buses from you.
And I answered quickly, well, that's great because when I have electric ones, I'll need 50and you can have 40 in the winter.
(19:31):
And BC Hydro's winter peaking and Steve did his calculations and came and said, look, letme use 40 of them for 10 years in the winter for six months.
I'll take them to Hope BC constrained substation.
And their calculations are it'll peak shave by 20 % having those 40 batteries.
plugged in together and being able to give power to the grid at peak time.
(19:55):
And it's less expensive for him, the amount he would have to pay us for us to get the 40,than it is to do the other things like upgrading the station.
hopefully those cost savings eventually transfer down to the consumer.
think, know, in BC in particular, we're pretty lucky.
We're used to having, it feels like unlimited power, but a lot of people don't realizethose days are numbered, right?
(20:18):
Unless we want to build more sightseed dams.
If you are living in a region like California, there are periods of brownouts andblackouts and, you know, things shut off and you're, or you're paying.
dare I say an arm and a leg.
So no, I think it's incredible that BC Hydro has really opened up on that innovationcomponent and looking at the future of not only clean transportation, but the role clean
(20:42):
transportation plays for the broader clean energy story.
And there's one other thing, now we're getting the nut of it, one other thing that noother source of electricity gives you except for a vehicle to grid.
And that's this.
I carry this on my bag.
People know me by this.
This is a portable air quality monitor.
people, when I show this, they think he's nuts, but then they remember me and I take itwherever I go.
(21:06):
So I carry this around and show it because we don't know it's invisible.
And yet.
more people die in the world from air pollution than climate change, and that's not goingto change soon.
And vehicle to grid is the best way to have healthier air.
There's many different measurements.
(21:26):
New York City estimates that when all vehicles are electric in the city, in New York City,they'll save 6.2 billion annually in healthcare.
really puts things into perspective when you look at that opportunity cost and the realitythat, you know, traditional vehicles, it's not only about the raw materials coming out of
the ground and the CO2, it's about long-term health for our communities.
(21:50):
For the City of Burnaby and other municipalities working to electrify their fleets,Vehicle to Grid has the potential to not only help alleviate budget issues, but also
improve air quality and provide backup power during emergencies.
However promising, V2G is still very much a work in progress.
(22:11):
The full ecosystem isn't in place yet, but the pieces are coming together.
from policy and funding models to pilot projects and partnerships.
And the road ahead is starting to take shape.
So City of Burnaby, you're leading this mandate uh and obviously we're looking atdifferent ways to leverage infrastructure for the greater good.
(22:32):
Vehicle to grid technology is a really interesting opportunity for communities.
I guess on the one side, you'll be able to access power from different distributednetworks.
On the flip side, maybe you can get a new revenue stream for the community.
BC is still working on it.
We have the pilots going on.
(22:53):
BC Hydro is working on with different partners like Coast to Coast or Lion Electric andmany others and they're working on to make it happen.
at the end of the day if that can happen is because a lot of times the question comes thenwhen you're transitioning your whole fleet to electric, what happens if there's an
earthquake and there's a shutdown of electricity for a few days or something?
How are you going to keep your electric fleet going as well as other things?
(23:17):
This V2G technology, if that happens, then you can actually supply electricity to some ofyour community centres, right, for example.
uh Or you have a tent there and you can provide that electricity out there.
I'm hoping, and one of the wishlists is that, you know, you can probably charge some ofthese electric other smaller vehicles from this bigger vehicle.
So this is a groundbreaking technology.
(23:39):
I think that's something that we're all waiting for and I hope that it really happens.
Yeah, I kind of envision it like it's like a whole reimagining all of our energyinfrastructure.
now that you have energy at your fingertips for emergency situations, you know, or ifthere's a blackout in part of the city, making sure you can move power easily, you know,
(24:00):
to those stations to those central hubs using all these, you know, backgroundtechnologies.
Yeah, it's incredible.
Absolutely.
When it comes to funding models for fleet electrification projects, it turns out theoptions are plentiful in BC.
Government grants, incentives and carbon credits are just a few of the resources publicand private fleet operators can tap into.
(24:25):
So let's talk a little bit about funding models.
So you obviously have your existing, you know, annual operating and capital planningbudgets.
I'm a little bit familiar with municipal operations.
I sat on the board of the police department here in Port Moody for four years, and youreally start to see the connectivity and expectations from constituents.
(24:46):
So what funding models do exist?
There are several funding mechanisms that do exist and that includes the federal andprovincial grants, uh green bonds, leasing options and partnerships with utility
providers.
An example is the joint procurement model where multiple municipalities pool resources andnegotiate better pricing.
(25:08):
So there are opportunities there.
And then in terms of funding, you have a provincial Clean BC Go electric funding.
There is a federal funding, it's incentives for medium and heavy duty zero emissionvehicles, IMHEZ, something like that, that EV.
uh And then there is zero emission vehicle infrastructure program that exists.
I'll give you an example that we wanted to pilot with an electric garbage truck.
(25:32):
And we wanted to see how that works.
Now, the internal combustion diesel engine powered garbage truck, which would cost aroundhalf a million dollar, electric is almost double the price.
When it's a double the price, that's a cost prohibitive thing to go ahead and how to getthat approved.
But we almost got like $300,000 in funding from provincial and federal government uh thatreally helped the business case for this truck.
(25:57):
And when you combine that funding and also look at the life cycle, less operating costs,less downtime and everything, you become winner right in the beginning.
Fundings are the most important thing, especially for the municipalities too, when they'relooking into transitioning.
One last thing is the carbon credits.
So if you own some EV charging stations, for example, city of Burnaby, have almost at theend of June, we'll probably have around 350 EV charging stations, level two, some level
(26:26):
three as well.
And when we are putting that electricity into our vehicles and we're running it, we canclaim the carbon credits.
So that becomes more, so we can actually do more investment into the infrastructure.
into the EV charging, into the EV transitioning as well.
So all of these fundings, they really help.
if anybody's listening in the municipal sector or even private sector, know, those thingsare available for EV transitioning.
(26:51):
Would you say that's one of the first things that a municipality partner can do is startto really look at there's business cases and business models that actually work and
incentives out there.
Would that be where you recommend folks leading these initiatives go?
Absolutely, know, it's always a good start.
Always keep an eye on it.
(27:12):
um You know, look for more partnerships.
For example, BC Hydro, you know, they can, they do a lot of partnerships with the localmunicipalities if you're trying to put in some public charging stations, know, BC Hydro
and even private sectors, there are many partnerships that are available, whether it'sthe, it's locating the site or putting the actual infrastructure on.
So, you know, it's wonderful at this moment.
(27:32):
And that's why, you know, just loving the,
British Columbia support system and the under federal support system.
Supporting each other in our efforts to decarbonize transportation benefits everyone inthe long run.
That's why collaboration is so important for progress.
Whether it's municipalities working together to negotiate better pricing, or the privateand public sectors sharing solutions everyone can use.
(28:02):
can the private sector, businesses, large industry do to better support municipalities whowant to embark on this journey?
Yeah, I think it's a teamwork, as you mentioned, and the private industry plays a crucialrole in providing this technology, investment, uh infrastructure, solutions, and even
financial models.
There are local companies, bi-Canadian, they're local companies.
(28:26):
They specialize in fleet electrification.
They offer consulting services, for example.
You know, there are energy providers, there are hardware providers.
So all of those, you know, when you put them all together, you become a team.
and it really becomes a teamwork to uh transition into electric.
Is there something that can happen at the policy level, whether it's municipal,provincial, or federal, that could accelerate fleet electrification for you?
(28:55):
So I think, you know, talking about the legislations and policies from British Columbia,they said, you know, by 2035, all your light duty vehicles, need to be electric, right?
So those are good thing to have.
We know that Metro Vancouver is working with the municipalities.
We are partners with them to looking into the medium duty and heavy duty fleet andequipment.
(29:17):
And I think...
looking at from the policy side of it.
And one of the just example of the house owners, know, Metro Vancouver is looking at thepolicy where they can ban those gas mowers, right, and the gas trimmers.
So that is at the policy level when you go to Canadian Tire or Home Depot or anywhereelse, gas ones will not be available.
So less noise, less greenhouse gas emissions, uh and the only thing available that wouldbe electric.
(29:42):
So I think that will happen.
and translate into the medium duty and heavy duty fleet and equipment as well eventuallywhere you will have the or probably you'll only have the options to buy sustainable and
more innovative technologies into the fleet and equipment.
So policies that drive economies of scale, which therefore, you know, allow us to savesome money when we're going through the transition phase.
(30:06):
As you're looking at your strategy to transition your fleet and look at new technology,are there other cities or regions across Canada globally that inspire you or that you've
learned some really interesting things from to inform your strategy?
I think there are cities around us, city Vancouver, uh know, city of Coquitlam, city ofAbbotsford, a lot of municipalities they're working towards these um and I think we are
(30:34):
learning from each other.
I would say city of Burnaby, I would call it that you know we pretty much are the leadersin this transition and I can tell you why because we have about like 350 EV charging
stations infrastructure.
So major task is to get the infrastructure in so that you can enroll into EV transition.
right away.
So we are ready to adapt and we're ready to accept if there's a technology available interms of light duty, medium duty and heavy duty.
(31:03):
uh We have level two charging stations as well as level three charging stations.
That means that we can charge our garbage trucks or heavy duty equipment as well.
So we have been transitioning to light duty vehicles.
We've been transitioning into smaller equipment.
So yeah, so we've been doing all of this and I think
because the City of Burnaby also thought about that it's going to take some time to get tothe zero emission vehicles because of technology availability.
(31:29):
We talked about the supply chain issues.
We talked about budget constraints and all of those.
So what do we do in the interim?
So in the interim, we have switched from the regular diesel to R100, which is a hydrogenderived renewable diesel, which can reduce all the way up to 80 % of greenhouse gas
emissions.
So City of Burnaby is doing a lot.
um Actually, and I'm very proud that our council and senior management, you know, they'reon the same page uh for this carbon neutrality purpose.
(31:57):
With all of these critical components coming together and innovative minds like Rob andTosif in the driver's seat, a future full of electrified fleets, both public and private,
may be closer than we think.
think in the next decade or so I envision widespread uh adoption of EV acrossmunicipalities, fleets and even bigger organizations.
(32:22):
And they're supported by the robust charging networks, not just locally but outside in theneighboring municipalities and facilities as well.
And hopefully a smart grid integration from BC Hydro or from the other private entities.
And I think this will shift uh not only from reducing the emissions but also creating
new opportunities for innovation and job growth in the clean energy sector.
(32:44):
So Rob, it's so important that you're bringing your tangible business owner experienceinto communities.
What do you see as a possible vision for the BC Lower Mainland to really electrifyeverything over the next 10, 15 years?
BC Transit had four electric buses for a while.
(33:05):
you know, got to, smart to walk before you run.
So get one, uh drive one for sure.
Get one or lease or, you know, lot of the bus companies will give it to you for free for amonth, you know, to try.
Beyond that, you got to make it someone's job description.
You have to make a bold plan and learn about it.
And so when I say make it someone's job description, uh not full-time necessarily, but
(33:31):
Okay, we want to report every month or quarter what you're learning, what's the businesscase, and to start learning because this doesn't have to happen next year.
No one's going to order a hundred.
That would be not a smart thing to do.
However, they could certainly transition their entire fleet over the next five or sixyears and make a significant difference.
(33:51):
can't, I don't have enough time today, but I cannot say enough about the social, thetriple bottom line, the social impact, not just the environmental.
the social impact of having these electric vehicles.
Everyone in the company is proud that your company has it.
You get better resumes, you get lower turnover, you get better drivers, you get pride.
(34:12):
Customers love it.
You know, I used to get thumbs up when I had one of the first electric courier vehicles,and that's not usually what you get when you're a courier driver.
There's a mandate to decarbonize, to look at innovation, to improve the operationalefficiency, as well as meet some of these other targets.
And that's sort of why the BC Net Zero Innovation Network was created, to bring in thatcapacity and help take these initiatives to the next level.
(34:38):
Because once you get some momentum, then it's easier to get buy-in from more decisionmakers, whether it's within the team or your customer base or, you know, your broader
stakeholder group.
And I have found, Jeanette, since 2000, that with other companies, it's the one topicwhere other companies are very willing to share what they've learned, even if they're
(35:00):
competitors, because it's important.
It's bigger than us.
It's about more than us.
It's about more than our profits.
So I would like to put a shout out that that information is very robustly shared and weshould help each other.
We can and should help each other.
Thank you to Rob Sifrata from Fuse Power Management and Tosi Forage from the City ofBurnaby for joining me today and for the important work they're doing to drive innovation
(35:26):
and bring cleaner air to communities across BC.
It's through collaborations like these that we're turning big ideas into real impact.
One battery, one engine, one vehicle and one fleet at a time.
One of the things I love about the transportation sector is people are working together tosolve these problems.
whether it's Rob and his team at Fuse or some of the other incredible innovators acrossour BC ecosystem.
(35:52):
People are passionate about clean transportation and getting those technologies andsolutions deployed today.
While climate targets are ambitious, the reality is action starts on the ground inmunicipalities.
And this is why the work that the City of Burnaby is doing is so amazing.
We can imagine a future where
All of the service vehicles in our communities, they're quiet and they're clean ah and youcan actually hear your kids laughing and hear the birds chirping.
(36:18):
And I think this is something that all of us can look forward to as well as healthierenvironments that we all live, work and play in.
If I were to leave our listeners with a final aha moment for this episode, especially ifyou're someone with influence, funding or passion to advance clean transportation, it's
this.
Accelerating the adoption of electric fleets shouldn't be a competition.
(36:39):
It should be a collaboration.
We all win when we share knowledge, align resources, and support the solutions that arealready working.
That's exactly what the BC Net Zero Innovation Network is here to do.
Connect the people, technologies, and ideas that can move us further, faster.
Whether you're a company making smart, sustainable business decisions, or a municipalitytrying to hit climate goals without breaking the budget, we all share the same end game.
(37:05):
A cleaner, more resilient, and prosperous future
for people and planet.
So let's make it happen, together.
On the next episode of Clean Tech Forward, ports and shipping are among the biggestbarriers to decarbonizing BC's transportation system.
How can we change that?
(37:26):
Let's explore solutions that will transform BC into a leader of sustainable shipping.
Add us to your playlist so you don't miss it.
Clean Tech Forward is fueled by Foresight Canada's BC Net Zero Innovation Network, poweredby Pacific Economic Development Canada and the Government of British Columbia.
(37:46):
Learn more about how BC is driving the future of clean transportation at ForesightCAC.comslash British Columbia.
you
you
(38:10):
you
Clean Tech Forward is an everything podcasts production hosted by Jeanette Jackson andnarrated by me, Tamara Stanners.
Show runner and writer, Jessica Grechik.
Sound engineer, Jordan Wong.
Executive producer, Jennifer Smith.
(38:35):
other everything.
Hi.
podcast production.
Visit everything podcast.com
Division of Patterson Media.
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