May 14, 2025 • 39 mins
Cleantech Forward: The Future of EV Charging Infrastructure
Kicking off the new season of Cleantech Forward, our first episode dives into the most viable solutions for expanding our EV charging infrastructure so we can get more electric vehicles on the road and emit fewer greenhouse gases. It turns out some of the most promising shared EV charging solutions are being tested right now on university and college campuses across BC.
Jeanette Jackson is joined by industry experts Randy Zadra, Clean Transportation Advisor in Foresight’s BC Net Zero Innovation Network, and David Agosti, Director of Parking and Sustainable Mobility at Simon Fraser University. Together, they discuss the EV Charging Alliance, a Foresight working group helping campuses become shared-use EV charging hubs—serving residents, fleets, and communities alike.
We look at how these collaborative, mixed-use models could be the key to unlocking scalable, cost-effective EV infrastructure across the province and beyond.
Relevant Reports
Electric Vehicle Charging Alliance Roadmap
Further Reading
Ventures to Value Chains: Energy Storage for Transportation
Powering Canada’s Future with Vehicle to Grid Innovation
BC Cleantech Export Report: Transportation
About the Guests
Randy Zadra
Randy Zadra is managing director of Integris, and serves as advisor to several companies including the World Manufacturing Forum (WMF), PEM Motion GmbH, and Foresight Canada. He has also served as a board member of Automobility Enterprises, an electric vehicle company. His experience includes 15 years in senior executive roles in Montreal, Boston, and Washington D.C. with BCE Inc., Teleglobe, Orblynx, and Datawind. He also worked at the National Research Council of Canada (NRC) where he led new international co-innovation initiatives, with project funding of over $200M, including many in the clean transportation sector. He has extensive experience in financing and advising early-stage technology companies and directed the Entrepreneurship and Development Program at the MIT Media Lab in Boston. He
taught several entrepreneurship courses, and served as a judge on the MIT business
plan competition for four years. He studied at the University of Windsor, Carleton University and the MIT Sloan School of Management.
David Agosti
David Agosti is the Director of Parking and Sustainable Mobility at Simon Fraser University (SFU) and is responsible for everything commuter-related across all three SFU campuses.
When looking at transportation, David analyzes consumer behaviour to better understand what motivates people to take different forms of transportation and what can be done to incentivize them to adopt more sustainable modes. Through incentivizing sustainable transportation methods, David’s department aims to help SFU achieve its 2025 Sustainability goal by reducing Scope 3 emissions from commuting by 25%.
During David’s 10+ years at SFU, he has seen transportation at Universities shift from parking-focused departments to a more holistic viewpoint that takes into account the economic, environmental, and sociocultural impacts of our collective transportation choices. David is currently focusing on the intersection of data & technology, consumer behavior, and sustainability in the transportation field in such areas as: electrification, micro-mobility, mode-shift, and connectivity.
About Foresight Canada
Foresight Canada helps the world do more with less, sustainably. As Canada's largest cleantech innovation and adoption accelerator, we connect public and private sectors to the world’s best clean technologies, de-risking and simplifying the adoption of innovative solutions that improve productivity, profitability, and economic competitiveness, all while addressing today’s most urgent climate challenges.
We don’t just accelerate innovation. We are innovation. From humble roots in Vancouver, Canada, F
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
I think it has to be said that if we want clean transportation around the country, youhave to be able to charge all these vehicles somehow, right?
Well, it turns out that colleges and universities have thousands of acres of parking andavailable space.
Now, by pulling them all together, we can create a network, which is what users want, bothat the business level and at the consumer level.
(00:38):
They want a transparent system.
where they can go and charge reliably.
And that's what this project is all about.
More electric vehicles on the road means quieter communities, cleaner air, and lessreliance on fossil fuels.
But space and budget constraints are slowing down the expansion of our EV charginginfrastructure.
(00:59):
What if we had the ideal testing ground to tackle those challenges head on?
It turns out we do, right here in BC.
At Simon Fraser University and other post-secondary campuses, a new model for mixed-use EVcharging is taking shape.
Thanks to support from the BC Net Zero Innovation Networks EV Charging Alliance WorkingGroup, not only are real-world solutions being tested, but new revenue streams and
(01:28):
scalable models are being uncovered to fast-track the EV transition.
I'm Jeanette Jackson, CEO of Foresight Canada and your host of Clean Tech Forward.
Today, we'll meet the innovators rethinking how we charge electric vehicles and why sharedcharging infrastructure on university and college campuses might hold the key to scaling
(01:48):
EV transportation across BC and beyond.
That's all coming up in just a moment.
Welcome to Clean Tech Forward.
This season, we're exploring the challenges, opportunities, and real-world solutionsshaping the future of British Columbia's clean transportation.
Join us as we talk to leaders and innovators working to accelerate BC's path to a net-zeroeconomy.
(02:14):
One that benefits people, planet, and profits.
From electric buses and tugboats to alternative fuels and shared infrastructure, buckleup.
for an electrifying ride into the future.
Powered by Foresight Canada's BC Net Zero Innovation Network.
At Foresight Canada, we help the world do more with less sustainably.
(02:38):
The BC Net Zero Innovation Network is a first-of-its-kind ecosystem platform thataccelerates the adoption of clean technologies throughout BC's top industries.
Clean air, clean water, clean transportation.
And Net Zero economy starts here.
Today, I'm very excited.
We've got Randy Zadra, who is our BC Net Zero Innovation Network Clean TransportationAdvisor.
(03:05):
I got all excited about this EV stuff about 15 years ago.
I was at the MIT Media Lab at the time in Cambridge when we did a project called theStreet Car.
And it was one of the kind of forerunners of all the EV stuff.
And I've also got with me David Agosti, who has been
leading up parking and sustainable mobility services for Simon Fraser University.
(03:30):
And I think for the listeners, what I'll add in there is, you what that really means isI'm responsible for just about everything commuting related at all three of our campuses
in Burnaby, Vancouver and Surrey here in BC.
Randy and David here are part of this working group model that started out as we need tomake sure that we strategically convene decision makers who are really serious about
(03:52):
innovation and sustainability.
and we're seeing great momentum and success built from this working group model thatForesight facilitates and provides capacity for.
Both of you seem very passionate about your work.
I'd love to hear a little bit about your personal motivations for working in cleantransportation.
So from a let's say from an economic perspective, the transportation sector, theautomotive sector is massive.
(04:16):
It's like one of the largest contributors to, you know, GNP in Canada.
talking about the macro level.
So there's lots of opportunities to do lots of different things.
As I said, my own personal experience has been from kind of, OK, ah this is a cool thing.
It's up and coming.
(04:37):
And let's try and build something.
That's what you do at MIT.
So when we started discussing about uh charging,
That was one of the cogs in the wheel, right?
You can't just build electric vehicles.
You have to have the charging infrastructure too to make it all work.
And the interesting thing about this is that um we still have a ways to go in Canada and,know, uh foresight had the vision to uh demonstrate that this is something that could be
(05:07):
worked on and, you know, that's what we're doing.
Yeah.
So for me, I'd say, you know, I
I prefer the term sustainable transportation over clean transportation.
know, I'm at a university, we love our Venn diagrams.
So, you know, I like to say with sustainable transportation, there's an environmentalcomponent, you know, which is your clean component, there's a financial component, which
is pretty obvious, I would hope.
(05:28):
And then there's a socio-cultural component.
And it's those sorts of different components of people commuting or driving or justengaging in transport for different reasons that
that really kind of interests me and really drives me in this area.
You know, here at SFU, we often use the term personas, right?
(05:49):
So what's the most sustainable form of transportation for someone who's coming here nineto five?
What's the most sustainable form of transportation for a shift worker?
What's the most sustainable form of transportation for a single parent who may havedeadlines for childcare?
um And then there's just all the other after hours thing.
(06:10):
You know, I think later on,
probably talk about how a university is a city within a city.
So what's the most sustainable way for someone who's coming to a university that has ahospital on campus?
So it's all those different reasons for traveling and reasons for commuting and how youcan make each of those personas, each of those situations more sustainable and how they go
(06:34):
about their daily lives.
That's the part that drives me.
That's what really interests me.
With the EV Charging Alliance Working Group,
Randy and David are exploring an innovative solution to address the challenges of ourinadequate EV charging infrastructure.
And since university and college campuses are like many urban centers, they're the perfecttesting ground.
(06:56):
David, let's dig into a little bit about this because I love how you talked about how auniversity is a city within a city or a community within a city.
And as of 2023, British Columbia
has 25 publicly funded institutions.
We've got universities, colleges, uh and other types of institutions, if you will.
(07:17):
Why is mixed use EV charging infrastructure such an opportunity for institutions likeuniversities and colleges?
You know, we have dining on campus.
We have transit on campus.
So we can be that sort of micro level test bed, right?
And so a municipality who might have multiple hospitals, multiple entertainment districts,multiple community centers can look to that university as we go ahead and we do these
(07:50):
things, we bring on these forms of sustainable transportation and say, hey, okay, that wasa test bed.
That was, you know, engaging that community.
And now we can leverage that up.
our municipality as a whole.
And then maybe we can leverage that up to the region as a whole.
And then maybe we can leverage that up to, you know, the province as a whole.
(08:11):
So I think that's a really important thing that universities have been able to do.
And I won't hog the airtime, I'll throw it over to Randy, but I haven't even reallymentioned, you know, the research piece of us being not just that testbed in terms of
consumer behavior and experience.
but also in terms of data and open data that other people can look at.
(08:34):
Randy, over to you.
mean, maybe you can talk a little bit about, you know, the role these innovation sandboxesplay beyond the innovation sandbox.
The innovation that happens in universities, including SFU, is critical to make thishappen.
And that's one of the reasons I got involved in this project, because I thought it wasn'tan abstract thing.
You had SFU who had already thought this out and some other universities.
(08:58):
And that's good.
That's what we need.
We need leadership from our institutions.
And then what we did was pull all the other ones in and, you know, created a roadmap as towhere this project can go.
And why this is important is because I think it has to be said that if we want cleantransportation around the country, you have to be able to charge all these vehicles
(09:22):
somehow, right?
Well, it turns out that colleges and universities have thousands of acres of
parking in available space.
But historically they've behaved individually on their own.
Now by pulling them all together, we can create a network, which is what users want bothat the business level and at the consumer level.
(09:44):
They want a transparent system where they can go and charge reliably.
And that's what this project is all about is really leveraging the space, the know-how ofuniversities, the ability to be flexible.
So
Here is an opportunity to leverage these institutions around BC, show that it works andpotentially expand it across the country.
(10:05):
And the visionaries that have been involved in the discussions really see this and there'stremendous support for it because let's call it spade to spade.
What are the challenges to doing all this?
First of all, in order to accelerate this new form of transportation, you need to have
reliable charging.
(10:27):
And right now that's not the case.
There isn't enough.
It's not sufficiently reliable and it's not sufficiently cost effective.
So these are some of the challenges we're trying to address in this project as well.
So it's really a unique opportunity.
You know, I think EV charging right now, EV adoption, all that sort of stuff, and I'mgoing to date myself here, m is really at a VHS or beta moment uh where
(10:54):
we decide how that industry and how the adoption moves forward.
Because I do think there is a necessary cultural change and philosophical change about howyou think about transportation.
For me, I like to try and hammer home, it's not about fueling, it's about parking.
(11:15):
And uh my lovely partner,
always waits until her car has been on the little empty, you know, the little light comeson in her car before and a couple of days later, she thinks about maybe fueling up.
And I can see you chuckling.
So I'm guessing, Jeanette, you might possibly be somebody like that.
(11:36):
I used to be until I went electric.
And that's exactly my point, right?
You cannot be that person with an electric vehicle.
And I would further say today with it with
with a gasoline powered vehicle or what have you, uh Fueling is a task, right?
I'm going to work and on the way home, I will stop for fuel.
I'm going to Costco and on the way there, I will stop for fuel.
(11:59):
To be successful and to now circle back to your question, you know, what this EV chargingalliance can offer.
To be successful, it can't be about fueling.
It has to be about parking.
It has to be about multitasking.
Right.
So while you are at work, your car is fueling up.
(12:20):
While your kid is at a 6 a.m.
hockey practice, your car is fueling up.
Right.
While you are eating dinner or at Costco or at the shopping mall, your car is fueling upbecause you're plugged into a charger.
And, uh you know, that's where I think this EV charging alliance comes in.
(12:45):
That's where we bring back in that a university or a college is a city within a city.
People are coming here at different times of the day, on different days, for differentreasons.
And during and within all of those reasons, they can be plugged in and charging andfueling up.
So I think that's really what this EV charging alliance brings.
(13:08):
In the case of SFU's Burnaby campus right across the street are, you know, 10 year old
townhouses and apartments that are what are generally referred to as garage orphans,right?
They don't have charging in the building, but they can just come across the street andcharge at my facilities.
So we're the same, but we're different.
(13:28):
But in that difference, we can meet the needs of so many different stakeholder groups.
Businesses that rely on vehicles to deliver goods are also stakeholders in this ecosystem.
Transitioning to electric
helps them save on fuel costs, but they also need access to convenient charging options tomake it work.
(13:51):
We've all seen those white cars or little vans dropping off our Amazon purchase order,right?
Down our street.
All of those business fleets are also transitioning to EV.
And the reason they're transitioning to EV is sure they want to be good corporatecitizens, but those guys spend about uh
(14:13):
$2,500 or more on average for gas each month.
So if you start doing the math, it makes great sense for them to transition to cleantechnology.
That's first add on I'd like to make to David's comments.
There's a real need on the business side as well for those kinds of guys.
And the cool thing about that is that colleges and universities parking lots are empty atnight and that's when those guys need to charge.
(14:40):
typically for seven or eight hours, right?
They're working during the day and they need a place to go and charge their, you know,their, little vans that they have to do all, and there's a whole bunch of those companies.
It's clear that the collaborative charging model being developed by Randy and David andthe EV Charging Alliance is more than just promising, it's practical.
(15:03):
Creating a network of mixed-use EV charging hubs could unlock real benefits forsurrounding residents, businesses, and institutions that keep communities moving along.
Universities and colleges are an ideal testing ground.
They have the space, the users, and the momentum.
(15:24):
But the reality is, installing charging infrastructure is costly and complex.
How can we fund and scale promising mixed-use EV charging models?
And who else needs to be at the table to turn this model into a movement?
First, let's look at an untapped resource with major potential.
(15:46):
Carbon credits.
maybe we want to have a little bit of a chat about carbon credits because BC is uniquelypositioned on carbon credits because it has two types of credits without getting too
technical.
This is money that comes to the service provider, if you will, at the end of the year fordelivering clean fuel essentially.
(16:10):
And there's two types.
There's a British, there's a BC carbon credit and there's a federal carbon credit.
And just to kind of cut to the chase,
One of those electric vehicles that, you know, those white things that come down yourstreet, if those guys charge every night at say David's facility, they would generate
$17,000 per vehicle on average of carbon credits.
(16:36):
So this is also good business.
It's not just about doing corporate social responsibility.
It's also about good business.
And that's the way it needs to work in order for the
you know, the climate initiatives to go forward.
No, this is, this is really interesting.
I mean, at the end of the day, what we're trying to do is show that innovation or new waysof thinking, in this case, new ways of fueling, we're optimizing the value of
(17:03):
infrastructure and assets and turning sort of the net zero transition into good business,making sure that everyday decision makers, whether you're managing a fleet or
You know, like you, David, you and your, you know, the institutions trying to move peoplearound as fast and efficiently as possible.
There's other economic and social opportunities, you know, that are tied to that.
(17:28):
So I think what we're, what we're trying to do is, you know, we did some back of theenvelope math and you know, the average car traveling the average distance charging at
home needs about eight hours of charging a week, right?
So far, SFU's test environment were charging vehicles, meaning flowing electrons, 10 hoursper day.
(17:50):
Right?
So what's that?
Like a factor of nine, something like that?
And I think that's where this EV charging alliance can really prove its benefit to theuniversities and to the community as a whole.
Right?
It's that efficient use of the infrastructure.
So to Randy's comment about, say, carbon credits,
If you don't know what they are, it's the BCLCFS Low Carbon Fuel Standard.
(18:15):
You can go ahead and Google that.
SFU has shared uh some of our data in an open source way.
I believe it's through IEEE.
But again, just Google SFU Public EV Charging Dataset.
You can find it and look it up.
But the more energy we flow through those chargers, the more carbon credits we cancapture.
(18:40):
the more we can flip that money in to installing more infrastructure.
The question probably on everyone's mind, what exactly is a carbon credit?
How do they work?
And how might a university or business that's generating clean energy take advantage ofthem?
Something that the common, you know, consumer or, you know, person using transportationmight not understand is that there are carbon credit opportunities available.
(19:08):
individually, for fleets, and for building infrastructure, and broadly the province whenit comes to capitalizing infrastructure.
Why don't you walk us through simply, if you were talking to someone off the street, whatwould you say about carbon credits and how they can potentially help alleviate those
financial burdens?
Yeah, that's really critical because there's a, I have to say there's a huge
(19:33):
lack of awareness and even in this project we found that the majority of the universitieswere really not aware of carbon credits or how they work or how it's money in their pocket
which is sad because you know this is a time when they really need revenues and so okaywhat's let's start with the concept of what's a carbon credit right so first of all a
carbon credit let me tell you what it is not it is not a government subsidy okay
(19:59):
and many ministers in other provinces think it is, it is not.
A carbon credit is revenue that comes to an entity that delivers clean fuel at the end ofthe year and that money comes from an exchange.
(20:19):
And so you have the big polluters, the big emitters who have to pay into the exchange.
Carbon credit is not uh
a subsidy from the government.
is revenue that comes from this market, from the carbon market that's created by largeemitters contributing because they have to.
(20:41):
people who are delivering clean fuels are benefiting.
You know, the formula for how to calculate it is very technical.
Obviously, we won't go into that.
But that's something that we recommended we do as part of the project is that we trainmaybe for
Of course, I could take this on.
could train the colleges and universities who are not aware of this to really ramp up andreally understand what role carbon credits play in the business opportunity, because it's
(21:10):
significant.
I mentioned earlier what you could get from an electric delivery vehicle if it was fueledevery night for 265 days a year.
It's really significant.
And BC, along with Quebec, are two provinces which have this dual
carbon credit structure because there are two types.
There are provincial ones and there is a federal one.
(21:32):
Two levels of carbon credits that clean fuel suppliers can avail themselves of.
And it's happening.
think, you know, David and his team at Simon Fraser has done a great job starting to getthose carbon credits, but many others can also avail themselves of that in terms of
(21:52):
developing, in terms of building it into their business plan.
because it makes a huge difference.
David, do you want to chime in on these sort of tradable assets?
Yeah, so I'll use I'll use another movie reference trading places with Eddie Murphy andDan Aykroyd.
They were selling pork bellies.
Yeah.
So us the the purveyors of the electricity is fuel.
(22:15):
We are the sellers of the pork bellies.
And the other corporate institutions like refineries and so on and so forth.
They are the
of the pork bellies.
You know, the unfortunate thing is that it is a little bit of a Wild West.
It's not actually a trading market.
um You have to literally pick up the phone and call the people listed as buyers and say,will you buy my stuff?
(22:39):
And the uh federal programs, uh CFR, you qualify differently than the provincial program.
And I won't go into all the details, but that's also one of the things that the EVcharging a lot.
is trying to solve is to make sure that we qualify for both because you qualify indifferent ways.
(23:00):
The last thing I would say is a lot of people have probably heard about uh challenges atthe university level with funding and international students.
Yes, absolutely, this is a revenue stream.
But over time, these carbon credits are probably going to go away.
Over time, we're going to be in a completely clean fuel environment.
(23:21):
So certainly from our perspective, the idea is to use these funds to reinvest.
You if we have 50 EV chargers on campus, we're going to collect that revenue and go to ahundred and go to 150 and go to 200 and so on and so forth.
So that's, that's our grand master plan is one of reinvestment.
Carbon credits offer a clear financial incentive for expanding EV charging infrastructureon campus.
(23:46):
And if those funds are reinvested in future charging facilities,
even better.
But carbon credits are just one piece of the puzzle.
For the impact of this to scale, industry and government need to be a part of thesolution.
The good news, here in BC, momentum is building.
(24:06):
With leaders like Randy and David at the table, the path to an electrified, more connectedtransportation system is becoming clearer and more achievable every day.
We've talked a lot about, so BC as an ideal environment to take this sector to the nextlevel.
(24:27):
We've got policy, we've got uh CleanBC kind of commitments politically.
We've got some funding that's, you know, seeded some pilots and things like that.
What we also know is that in British Columbia, we are one of the provinces that isinfluenced heavily by the two energy companies.
We've got BC Hydro and Fortis, obviously.
(24:50):
both of whom play a pretty significant role but are also at the table for this project.
So, we'd love to hear from both of you, what role does BC Hydro play in enabling orexpanding shared use EV charging infrastructure and how is this project going to inform or
excite some of their opportunities there?
(25:10):
First of all, companies like BC Hydro, as you said, have been very supportive.
They've funded this project.
among other things.
And I think there's a recognition in the company that they need to leverage uh partners toget to where they want to be.
And that's a good vision to have because not all utilities behave that way.
(25:33):
I think in the case of BC Hydro, there's a real understanding that you can leverage otherassets in the province.
And that's that's what they're doing.
And they're helping us to do that, even though they themselves are rolling out uh some
charging infrastructure, they understand that complementary infrastructure is also needed.
(25:53):
So that's the kind of strategic understanding that's needed.
Bottom line is BC Hydro Fortis, again, it's the cultural, the strategic understanding thatthey need to play a very important role in this sector and in BC, they're very uniquely
able to do that, unlike some other places in Canada.
(26:14):
So.
I would say they're very strategic partners and assets in all of this.
That's great.
Yeah, we've noticed over the last couple of years with some of the new leadership andboard members at BC Hydro, the opportunity to engage on innovation and new strategies for
distributed energy infrastructure has really opened up.
(26:36):
And I'm excited that this project ties to that philosophy and that culture development.
Yeah, I've worked with some other.
very large utilities and other provinces and it's a different kind of culture.
And part of that is because of government policy, right?
That it all starts with the policy that's outlined.
Take Ontario, for instance, it's very clear that it's a little bit different there.
(26:59):
So, you know, the utilities behave differently.
But as I said earlier, BC is very ideally positioned.
Everybody's kind of marching in the same direction.
So it's great to see.
I love that.
So, you know, one of the things that we assess when we're working on programs is whatproblem are we solving?
What are some of the barriers that you are working to overcome or are still to be overcomethrough this working group and maybe some of your other initiatives that support this
(27:28):
working group?
Yeah, so, you know, there are very similar problems that we have elsewhere when it comesto innovation, I believe.
The first one being that
In Canada, generally speaking, we're risk averse when it comes to doing somethinginnovative, right?
So how do we mitigate that uh is by demonstrating that it's not as high a risk as youthink.
(27:52):
And that's what this project is about.
By working together, we can mitigate risk for the CFOs who will eventually have to takedecisions on putting money on this project in each and every institution.
OK, that's the number one thing we need to demonstrate that.
We've thought this out that it's not as risky as it could be.
And the second thing is really creating a market, creating a provincial market, creating anational market for this kind of thing.
(28:21):
We've got to break down these barriers.
We've got to get people working together to create a more scalable service at a lowercost.
You know, we want to really demonstrate that we can get rid of resistance to change,right?
By showing that
These projects can be a good business for the players involved and that by workingtogether You can do more you can do it more efficiently You can do it better for the
(28:49):
consumer and for the business side.
I think this is where you know uh Foresight plays a critical role because that's a hugemissing piece right now with the right coordination and collaboration catalyzed by these
kinds of projects
we could move toward a true made-in-Canada solution that benefits local businesses andcommunities alike.
(29:12):
Let me give you an example, So this project is going to entail purchasing a lot oftechnology, software technology, hardware, chargers.
Okay, we have all that stuff in Canada.
It's all disjointed.
It's all over the place.
And we can actually pull together, you know, the kind of stuff that's being talked aboutin the news these days.
(29:34):
and build something that not only offers a service, but accelerates Canadian technologyand including software and hardware.
All of these things that we need here are available in Canada.
Not necessarily the case right now in terms of how it's being deployed, but we could pullall that together and really build something that has, you know, economic, let's say it
(29:57):
becomes an economic engine for those suppliers as well.
I mean, we're talking about
10 to 20 million dollars just in BC.
These are not small projects, right?
And then across the country, it's probably going to be 100 million plus if we do this.
So in order to scale in a good way, we need to bring all these pieces together, findCanadian suppliers, bring them into the picture.
(30:20):
And then we haven't talked about subsidies, whether it's California or the US or Canada.
This is a sector that has been subsidized by government programs, right?
to the tune of about 50 % of chargers and software that's going in.
That will continue to be the case.
Those programs will continue going.
(30:41):
And so that's an important element as well.
Both in BC, there's numerous programs available for providing public subsidies as well asthe national level.
And David has done an awesome job.
We meet regularly with all the funders for this.
kind of lining them up because they have a huge role to play as well.
(31:01):
But I think one of the unique things about this project is that if we can scale it, thatalso becomes an economic development project.
It's not just a subsidy to put two chargers in the local library.
So aggregating demand, creating a scaled up project has a number of other implications foreconomic development, which we haven't yet leveraged, frankly.
(31:25):
And that's one of the unique things about this project.
It's really amazing.
That's why I got excited actually, because it's, you you can pull all that stuff togetherand, you know, kind of meet multiple objectives at the same time.
You can help Canadian companies who are providing technology.
You can deliver a great service.
You can make money for the colleges and universities.
(31:46):
These are pretty unique aspects to any project.
Like it's not often that you get that kind of thing.
Yeah, and I think that's because of the nature of the BC Net Zero Innovation Network.
It's an ecosystem approach, you know, to innovation or problem solving, if you will.
It's really about deploying technology to get it at scale so that it's exportable and it'sexportable not just as a one-off company, but as a turnkey solution for other markets.
(32:13):
And I think sometimes what we see is you've got a whole bunch of independent companiesgoing after markets and one solves this piece of the value chain and another solves this
piece of the value chain and they're not working together.
Whereas projects like this give us the ability to consolidate all of that uh knowledge,that technology into concrete packages that we can then market, you know, to other places
(32:37):
who are going to need this infrastructure once the models are proven.
And by the way,
It's extremely hard to export when you haven't done something at home.
And so I applaud, you know, SFU and the other partners in the working group for beingreally open and embracing that there might be a little bit of risk and that's okay.
Risk is good.
We're gonna learn along the way.
(32:58):
It's not gonna be perfect.
We're gonna find out which technologies make sense, which aren't gonna be applicable here.
You know, do we need to create something new out of some of the gaps in the value chainfor this entire project?
All these things, like you said, they're exciting, they're ambitious, but they makebusiness sense while supporting our climate transition as well.
(33:20):
Yeah, so I'll throw an ask into this and this is sort of directed towards the funders.
And I mean, if you look at a project like this, there are six or seven major steps to theproject, right?
There's, say, a business analysis, a business case where you look at what your parkingsupply is, who your...
stakeholders you could service are, right?
(33:41):
Then you're doing, you know, an electrical engineering assessment or something along thoselines.
Then, you know, you're doing the installation, you're getting the EV chargers.
You know, then there's a whole software piece, both customer facing and backend.
Then there's a whole further contractual piece.
Are you working with light duty fleets?
Are you working with stratas?
(34:03):
And then there's, you know, I think the IP, the intellectual property portion of it,
where you're developing manuals and playbooks so that you can leverage this across uhother provinces, other campuses, that sort of thing.
Right now, there's no funder that will allocate money to all of those six or seven stepsin the process.
(34:27):
So we have to go to funder A for say the business case piece, funder B for say thehardware piece.
funders see.
So I mean, you know, that's one of the challenges we're facing uh moving forward.
And so why we're trying to get and have succeeded, actually, I do have to give thefunders, uh both the government agencies and the NGOs credit for this, you know, they have
(34:48):
been really interested in sitting in the room and, trying to figure this out.
But you know, at the end of the day, some of that is politics and, and policy.
And we'd really like to see that solved.
You know, the other thing is,
There's a springboard to the whole made in Canada developed in Canada piece, right?
(35:10):
So right now we've just talked about those six pieces that I've mentioned and there arepeople in Canada that do all of those things.
But we're already blue sky and other things we could do.
So a simple example is right now it goes power supply, meaning from hydro to the EVcharger to the car, right?
(35:31):
You could go
power supply to battery to EV charger to the car.
And for hospitals and universities, could that eliminate the need for backup dieselgenerators?
Could that uh mean that we're drawing power from the grid at low demand times?
Because for organizations like Hydro, it's not just how much power you need, but when youneed it.
(35:54):
So we have this plan and this concept now, but we're also fully realizing that there's anability for
researchers and entrepreneurs within Canada to take that to step two and to step three andto step four.
And you know that's one of the things that really excites me as well is you know we don'tneed to stop here.
(36:15):
We can keep going.
Thank you to Randy Zadra from the BC Net Zero Innovation Network and David Agosti fromSimon Fraser University for joining me today, sharing their passion and showing us how
collaboration and momentum are moving our communities forward sustainably.
We have serious activators in the ecosystem ready to trial and deploy technology pathwaysthat are not only a benefit to that community, but communities around the world.
(36:42):
And not only that, it's a repeatable model that can be applied to many other sectors andsituations.
So I hope that everyone got a real taste on what we can do if we've got working groups inaction.
If I were to leave our listeners with a final aha moment for this episode,
Especially if you're someone with influence, funding, or passion to advance cleantransportation, it's this.
(37:04):
The technology exists.
The models are working.
Now it's about bringing the right collaborators to the table.
When we connect innovators like Randy and David with the resources and support they need,when businesses, government, and community work together, we adopt real solutions and
accelerate tangible impact.
That's how we build a cleaner, more sustainable, and connected future for our children andfor generations to come.
(37:28):
Not someday, but right here, right now.
Next time on Clean Tech Forward.
What if garbage trucks moved in silence?
What if buses didn't just transport passengers, but powered the grid?
Join me as we explore the future of electrified municipal fleets and the BC innovatorsmaking it possible.
(37:54):
Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss it.
Clean Tech Forward is fueled by Foresight Canada's BC Net Zero Innovation Network, poweredby Pacific Economic Development Canada and the Government of British Columbia.
Learn more about how BC is driving the future of clean transportation at ForesightCAC.comslash British Columbia.
(38:33):
Clean Tech Forward is an everything podcasts production hosted by Jeanette Jackson andnarrated by me Tamara Stanners show runner and writer Jessica Grachik sound engineer
Jordan Wong executive producer Jennifer Smith
(38:56):
Another Everything Podcast production.
Visit everythingpodcast.com, a division of Patterson Media.
Subscribe wherever you get your podcast.
I think it has to be said that if we want clean transportation around the country, youhave to be able to charge all these vehicles somehow, right?
Well, it turns out that colleges and universities have thousands of acres of parking andavailable space.
Now, by pulling them all together, we can create a network, which is what users want, bothat the business level and at the consumer level.
(00:38):
They want a transparent system.
where they can go and charge reliably.
And that's what this project is all about.
More electric vehicles on the road means quieter communities, cleaner air, and lessreliance on fossil fuels.
But space and budget constraints are slowing down the expansion of our EV charginginfrastructure.
(00:59):
What if we had the ideal testing ground to tackle those challenges head on?
It turns out we do, right here in BC.
At Simon Fraser University and other post-secondary campuses, a new model for mixed-use EVcharging is taking shape.
Thanks to support from the BC Net Zero Innovation Networks EV Charging Alliance WorkingGroup, not only are real-world solutions being tested, but new revenue streams and
(01:28):
scalable models are being uncovered to fast-track the EV transition.
I'm Jeanette Jackson, CEO of Foresight Canada and your host of Clean Tech Forward.
Today, we'll meet the innovators rethinking how we charge electric vehicles and why sharedcharging infrastructure on university and college campuses might hold the key to scaling
(01:48):
EV transportation across BC and beyond.
That's all coming up in just a moment.
Welcome to Clean Tech Forward.
This season, we're exploring the challenges, opportunities, and real-world solutionsshaping the future of British Columbia's clean transportation.
Join us as we talk to leaders and innovators working to accelerate BC's path to a net-zeroeconomy.
(02:14):
One that benefits people, planet, and profits.
From electric buses and tugboats to alternative fuels and shared infrastructure, buckleup.
for an electrifying ride into the future.
Powered by Foresight Canada's BC Net Zero Innovation Network.
At Foresight Canada, we help the world do more with less sustainably.
(02:38):
The BC Net Zero Innovation Network is a first-of-its-kind ecosystem platform thataccelerates the adoption of clean technologies throughout BC's top industries.
Clean air, clean water, clean transportation.
And Net Zero economy starts here.
Today, I'm very excited.
We've got Randy Zadra, who is our BC Net Zero Innovation Network Clean TransportationAdvisor.
(03:05):
I got all excited about this EV stuff about 15 years ago.
I was at the MIT Media Lab at the time in Cambridge when we did a project called theStreet Car.
And it was one of the kind of forerunners of all the EV stuff.
And I've also got with me David Agosti, who has been
leading up parking and sustainable mobility services for Simon Fraser University.
(03:30):
And I think for the listeners, what I'll add in there is, you what that really means isI'm responsible for just about everything commuting related at all three of our campuses
in Burnaby, Vancouver and Surrey here in BC.
Randy and David here are part of this working group model that started out as we need tomake sure that we strategically convene decision makers who are really serious about
(03:52):
innovation and sustainability.
and we're seeing great momentum and success built from this working group model thatForesight facilitates and provides capacity for.
Both of you seem very passionate about your work.
I'd love to hear a little bit about your personal motivations for working in cleantransportation.
So from a let's say from an economic perspective, the transportation sector, theautomotive sector is massive.
(04:16):
It's like one of the largest contributors to, you know, GNP in Canada.
talking about the macro level.
So there's lots of opportunities to do lots of different things.
As I said, my own personal experience has been from kind of, OK, ah this is a cool thing.
It's up and coming.
(04:37):
And let's try and build something.
That's what you do at MIT.
So when we started discussing about uh charging,
That was one of the cogs in the wheel, right?
You can't just build electric vehicles.
You have to have the charging infrastructure too to make it all work.
And the interesting thing about this is that um we still have a ways to go in Canada and,know, uh foresight had the vision to uh demonstrate that this is something that could be
(05:07):
worked on and, you know, that's what we're doing.
Yeah.
So for me, I'd say, you know, I
I prefer the term sustainable transportation over clean transportation.
know, I'm at a university, we love our Venn diagrams.
So, you know, I like to say with sustainable transportation, there's an environmentalcomponent, you know, which is your clean component, there's a financial component, which
is pretty obvious, I would hope.
(05:28):
And then there's a socio-cultural component.
And it's those sorts of different components of people commuting or driving or justengaging in transport for different reasons that
that really kind of interests me and really drives me in this area.
You know, here at SFU, we often use the term personas, right?
(05:49):
So what's the most sustainable form of transportation for someone who's coming here nineto five?
What's the most sustainable form of transportation for a shift worker?
What's the most sustainable form of transportation for a single parent who may havedeadlines for childcare?
um And then there's just all the other after hours thing.
(06:10):
You know, I think later on,
probably talk about how a university is a city within a city.
So what's the most sustainable way for someone who's coming to a university that has ahospital on campus?
So it's all those different reasons for traveling and reasons for commuting and how youcan make each of those personas, each of those situations more sustainable and how they go
(06:34):
about their daily lives.
That's the part that drives me.
That's what really interests me.
With the EV Charging Alliance Working Group,
Randy and David are exploring an innovative solution to address the challenges of ourinadequate EV charging infrastructure.
And since university and college campuses are like many urban centers, they're the perfecttesting ground.
(06:56):
David, let's dig into a little bit about this because I love how you talked about how auniversity is a city within a city or a community within a city.
And as of 2023, British Columbia
has 25 publicly funded institutions.
We've got universities, colleges, uh and other types of institutions, if you will.
(07:17):
Why is mixed use EV charging infrastructure such an opportunity for institutions likeuniversities and colleges?
You know, we have dining on campus.
We have transit on campus.
So we can be that sort of micro level test bed, right?
And so a municipality who might have multiple hospitals, multiple entertainment districts,multiple community centers can look to that university as we go ahead and we do these
(07:50):
things, we bring on these forms of sustainable transportation and say, hey, okay, that wasa test bed.
That was, you know, engaging that community.
And now we can leverage that up.
our municipality as a whole.
And then maybe we can leverage that up to the region as a whole.
And then maybe we can leverage that up to, you know, the province as a whole.
(08:11):
So I think that's a really important thing that universities have been able to do.
And I won't hog the airtime, I'll throw it over to Randy, but I haven't even reallymentioned, you know, the research piece of us being not just that testbed in terms of
consumer behavior and experience.
but also in terms of data and open data that other people can look at.
(08:34):
Randy, over to you.
mean, maybe you can talk a little bit about, you know, the role these innovation sandboxesplay beyond the innovation sandbox.
The innovation that happens in universities, including SFU, is critical to make thishappen.
And that's one of the reasons I got involved in this project, because I thought it wasn'tan abstract thing.
You had SFU who had already thought this out and some other universities.
(08:58):
And that's good.
That's what we need.
We need leadership from our institutions.
And then what we did was pull all the other ones in and, you know, created a roadmap as towhere this project can go.
And why this is important is because I think it has to be said that if we want cleantransportation around the country, you have to be able to charge all these vehicles
(09:22):
somehow, right?
Well, it turns out that colleges and universities have thousands of acres of
parking in available space.
But historically they've behaved individually on their own.
Now by pulling them all together, we can create a network, which is what users want bothat the business level and at the consumer level.
(09:44):
They want a transparent system where they can go and charge reliably.
And that's what this project is all about is really leveraging the space, the know-how ofuniversities, the ability to be flexible.
So
Here is an opportunity to leverage these institutions around BC, show that it works andpotentially expand it across the country.
(10:05):
And the visionaries that have been involved in the discussions really see this and there'stremendous support for it because let's call it spade to spade.
What are the challenges to doing all this?
First of all, in order to accelerate this new form of transportation, you need to have
reliable charging.
(10:27):
And right now that's not the case.
There isn't enough.
It's not sufficiently reliable and it's not sufficiently cost effective.
So these are some of the challenges we're trying to address in this project as well.
So it's really a unique opportunity.
You know, I think EV charging right now, EV adoption, all that sort of stuff, and I'mgoing to date myself here, m is really at a VHS or beta moment uh where
(10:54):
we decide how that industry and how the adoption moves forward.
Because I do think there is a necessary cultural change and philosophical change about howyou think about transportation.
For me, I like to try and hammer home, it's not about fueling, it's about parking.
(11:15):
And uh my lovely partner,
always waits until her car has been on the little empty, you know, the little light comeson in her car before and a couple of days later, she thinks about maybe fueling up.
And I can see you chuckling.
So I'm guessing, Jeanette, you might possibly be somebody like that.
(11:36):
I used to be until I went electric.
And that's exactly my point, right?
You cannot be that person with an electric vehicle.
And I would further say today with it with
with a gasoline powered vehicle or what have you, uh Fueling is a task, right?
I'm going to work and on the way home, I will stop for fuel.
I'm going to Costco and on the way there, I will stop for fuel.
(11:59):
To be successful and to now circle back to your question, you know, what this EV chargingalliance can offer.
To be successful, it can't be about fueling.
It has to be about parking.
It has to be about multitasking.
Right.
So while you are at work, your car is fueling up.
(12:20):
While your kid is at a 6 a.m.
hockey practice, your car is fueling up.
Right.
While you are eating dinner or at Costco or at the shopping mall, your car is fueling upbecause you're plugged into a charger.
And, uh you know, that's where I think this EV charging alliance comes in.
(12:45):
That's where we bring back in that a university or a college is a city within a city.
People are coming here at different times of the day, on different days, for differentreasons.
And during and within all of those reasons, they can be plugged in and charging andfueling up.
So I think that's really what this EV charging alliance brings.
(13:08):
In the case of SFU's Burnaby campus right across the street are, you know, 10 year old
townhouses and apartments that are what are generally referred to as garage orphans,right?
They don't have charging in the building, but they can just come across the street andcharge at my facilities.
So we're the same, but we're different.
(13:28):
But in that difference, we can meet the needs of so many different stakeholder groups.
Businesses that rely on vehicles to deliver goods are also stakeholders in this ecosystem.
Transitioning to electric
helps them save on fuel costs, but they also need access to convenient charging options tomake it work.
(13:51):
We've all seen those white cars or little vans dropping off our Amazon purchase order,right?
Down our street.
All of those business fleets are also transitioning to EV.
And the reason they're transitioning to EV is sure they want to be good corporatecitizens, but those guys spend about uh
(14:13):
$2,500 or more on average for gas each month.
So if you start doing the math, it makes great sense for them to transition to cleantechnology.
That's first add on I'd like to make to David's comments.
There's a real need on the business side as well for those kinds of guys.
And the cool thing about that is that colleges and universities parking lots are empty atnight and that's when those guys need to charge.
(14:40):
typically for seven or eight hours, right?
They're working during the day and they need a place to go and charge their, you know,their, little vans that they have to do all, and there's a whole bunch of those companies.
It's clear that the collaborative charging model being developed by Randy and David andthe EV Charging Alliance is more than just promising, it's practical.
(15:03):
Creating a network of mixed-use EV charging hubs could unlock real benefits forsurrounding residents, businesses, and institutions that keep communities moving along.
Universities and colleges are an ideal testing ground.
They have the space, the users, and the momentum.
(15:24):
But the reality is, installing charging infrastructure is costly and complex.
How can we fund and scale promising mixed-use EV charging models?
And who else needs to be at the table to turn this model into a movement?
First, let's look at an untapped resource with major potential.
(15:46):
Carbon credits.
maybe we want to have a little bit of a chat about carbon credits because BC is uniquelypositioned on carbon credits because it has two types of credits without getting too
technical.
This is money that comes to the service provider, if you will, at the end of the year fordelivering clean fuel essentially.
(16:10):
And there's two types.
There's a British, there's a BC carbon credit and there's a federal carbon credit.
And just to kind of cut to the chase,
One of those electric vehicles that, you know, those white things that come down yourstreet, if those guys charge every night at say David's facility, they would generate
$17,000 per vehicle on average of carbon credits.
(16:36):
So this is also good business.
It's not just about doing corporate social responsibility.
It's also about good business.
And that's the way it needs to work in order for the
you know, the climate initiatives to go forward.
No, this is, this is really interesting.
I mean, at the end of the day, what we're trying to do is show that innovation or new waysof thinking, in this case, new ways of fueling, we're optimizing the value of
(17:03):
infrastructure and assets and turning sort of the net zero transition into good business,making sure that everyday decision makers, whether you're managing a fleet or
You know, like you, David, you and your, you know, the institutions trying to move peoplearound as fast and efficiently as possible.
There's other economic and social opportunities, you know, that are tied to that.
(17:28):
So I think what we're, what we're trying to do is, you know, we did some back of theenvelope math and you know, the average car traveling the average distance charging at
home needs about eight hours of charging a week, right?
So far, SFU's test environment were charging vehicles, meaning flowing electrons, 10 hoursper day.
(17:50):
Right?
So what's that?
Like a factor of nine, something like that?
And I think that's where this EV charging alliance can really prove its benefit to theuniversities and to the community as a whole.
Right?
It's that efficient use of the infrastructure.
So to Randy's comment about, say, carbon credits,
If you don't know what they are, it's the BCLCFS Low Carbon Fuel Standard.
(18:15):
You can go ahead and Google that.
SFU has shared uh some of our data in an open source way.
I believe it's through IEEE.
But again, just Google SFU Public EV Charging Dataset.
You can find it and look it up.
But the more energy we flow through those chargers, the more carbon credits we cancapture.
(18:40):
the more we can flip that money in to installing more infrastructure.
The question probably on everyone's mind, what exactly is a carbon credit?
How do they work?
And how might a university or business that's generating clean energy take advantage ofthem?
Something that the common, you know, consumer or, you know, person using transportationmight not understand is that there are carbon credit opportunities available.
(19:08):
individually, for fleets, and for building infrastructure, and broadly the province whenit comes to capitalizing infrastructure.
Why don't you walk us through simply, if you were talking to someone off the street, whatwould you say about carbon credits and how they can potentially help alleviate those
financial burdens?
Yeah, that's really critical because there's a, I have to say there's a huge
(19:33):
lack of awareness and even in this project we found that the majority of the universitieswere really not aware of carbon credits or how they work or how it's money in their pocket
which is sad because you know this is a time when they really need revenues and so okaywhat's let's start with the concept of what's a carbon credit right so first of all a
carbon credit let me tell you what it is not it is not a government subsidy okay
(19:59):
and many ministers in other provinces think it is, it is not.
A carbon credit is revenue that comes to an entity that delivers clean fuel at the end ofthe year and that money comes from an exchange.
(20:19):
And so you have the big polluters, the big emitters who have to pay into the exchange.
Carbon credit is not uh
a subsidy from the government.
is revenue that comes from this market, from the carbon market that's created by largeemitters contributing because they have to.
(20:41):
people who are delivering clean fuels are benefiting.
You know, the formula for how to calculate it is very technical.
Obviously, we won't go into that.
But that's something that we recommended we do as part of the project is that we trainmaybe for
Of course, I could take this on.
could train the colleges and universities who are not aware of this to really ramp up andreally understand what role carbon credits play in the business opportunity, because it's
(21:10):
significant.
I mentioned earlier what you could get from an electric delivery vehicle if it was fueledevery night for 265 days a year.
It's really significant.
And BC, along with Quebec, are two provinces which have this dual
carbon credit structure because there are two types.
There are provincial ones and there is a federal one.
(21:32):
Two levels of carbon credits that clean fuel suppliers can avail themselves of.
And it's happening.
think, you know, David and his team at Simon Fraser has done a great job starting to getthose carbon credits, but many others can also avail themselves of that in terms of
(21:52):
developing, in terms of building it into their business plan.
because it makes a huge difference.
David, do you want to chime in on these sort of tradable assets?
Yeah, so I'll use I'll use another movie reference trading places with Eddie Murphy andDan Aykroyd.
They were selling pork bellies.
Yeah.
So us the the purveyors of the electricity is fuel.
(22:15):
We are the sellers of the pork bellies.
And the other corporate institutions like refineries and so on and so forth.
They are the
of the pork bellies.
You know, the unfortunate thing is that it is a little bit of a Wild West.
It's not actually a trading market.
um You have to literally pick up the phone and call the people listed as buyers and say,will you buy my stuff?
(22:39):
And the uh federal programs, uh CFR, you qualify differently than the provincial program.
And I won't go into all the details, but that's also one of the things that the EVcharging a lot.
is trying to solve is to make sure that we qualify for both because you qualify indifferent ways.
(23:00):
The last thing I would say is a lot of people have probably heard about uh challenges atthe university level with funding and international students.
Yes, absolutely, this is a revenue stream.
But over time, these carbon credits are probably going to go away.
Over time, we're going to be in a completely clean fuel environment.
(23:21):
So certainly from our perspective, the idea is to use these funds to reinvest.
You if we have 50 EV chargers on campus, we're going to collect that revenue and go to ahundred and go to 150 and go to 200 and so on and so forth.
So that's, that's our grand master plan is one of reinvestment.
Carbon credits offer a clear financial incentive for expanding EV charging infrastructureon campus.
(23:46):
And if those funds are reinvested in future charging facilities,
even better.
But carbon credits are just one piece of the puzzle.
For the impact of this to scale, industry and government need to be a part of thesolution.
The good news, here in BC, momentum is building.
(24:06):
With leaders like Randy and David at the table, the path to an electrified, more connectedtransportation system is becoming clearer and more achievable every day.
We've talked a lot about, so BC as an ideal environment to take this sector to the nextlevel.
(24:27):
We've got policy, we've got uh CleanBC kind of commitments politically.
We've got some funding that's, you know, seeded some pilots and things like that.
What we also know is that in British Columbia, we are one of the provinces that isinfluenced heavily by the two energy companies.
We've got BC Hydro and Fortis, obviously.
(24:50):
both of whom play a pretty significant role but are also at the table for this project.
So, we'd love to hear from both of you, what role does BC Hydro play in enabling orexpanding shared use EV charging infrastructure and how is this project going to inform or
excite some of their opportunities there?
(25:10):
First of all, companies like BC Hydro, as you said, have been very supportive.
They've funded this project.
among other things.
And I think there's a recognition in the company that they need to leverage uh partners toget to where they want to be.
And that's a good vision to have because not all utilities behave that way.
(25:33):
I think in the case of BC Hydro, there's a real understanding that you can leverage otherassets in the province.
And that's that's what they're doing.
And they're helping us to do that, even though they themselves are rolling out uh some
charging infrastructure, they understand that complementary infrastructure is also needed.
(25:53):
So that's the kind of strategic understanding that's needed.
Bottom line is BC Hydro Fortis, again, it's the cultural, the strategic understanding thatthey need to play a very important role in this sector and in BC, they're very uniquely
able to do that, unlike some other places in Canada.
(26:14):
So.
I would say they're very strategic partners and assets in all of this.
That's great.
Yeah, we've noticed over the last couple of years with some of the new leadership andboard members at BC Hydro, the opportunity to engage on innovation and new strategies for
distributed energy infrastructure has really opened up.
(26:36):
And I'm excited that this project ties to that philosophy and that culture development.
Yeah, I've worked with some other.
very large utilities and other provinces and it's a different kind of culture.
And part of that is because of government policy, right?
That it all starts with the policy that's outlined.
Take Ontario, for instance, it's very clear that it's a little bit different there.
(26:59):
So, you know, the utilities behave differently.
But as I said earlier, BC is very ideally positioned.
Everybody's kind of marching in the same direction.
So it's great to see.
I love that.
So, you know, one of the things that we assess when we're working on programs is whatproblem are we solving?
What are some of the barriers that you are working to overcome or are still to be overcomethrough this working group and maybe some of your other initiatives that support this
(27:28):
working group?
Yeah, so, you know, there are very similar problems that we have elsewhere when it comesto innovation, I believe.
The first one being that
In Canada, generally speaking, we're risk averse when it comes to doing somethinginnovative, right?
So how do we mitigate that uh is by demonstrating that it's not as high a risk as youthink.
(27:52):
And that's what this project is about.
By working together, we can mitigate risk for the CFOs who will eventually have to takedecisions on putting money on this project in each and every institution.
OK, that's the number one thing we need to demonstrate that.
We've thought this out that it's not as risky as it could be.
And the second thing is really creating a market, creating a provincial market, creating anational market for this kind of thing.
(28:21):
We've got to break down these barriers.
We've got to get people working together to create a more scalable service at a lowercost.
You know, we want to really demonstrate that we can get rid of resistance to change,right?
By showing that
These projects can be a good business for the players involved and that by workingtogether You can do more you can do it more efficiently You can do it better for the
(28:49):
consumer and for the business side.
I think this is where you know uh Foresight plays a critical role because that's a hugemissing piece right now with the right coordination and collaboration catalyzed by these
kinds of projects
we could move toward a true made-in-Canada solution that benefits local businesses andcommunities alike.
(29:12):
Let me give you an example, So this project is going to entail purchasing a lot oftechnology, software technology, hardware, chargers.
Okay, we have all that stuff in Canada.
It's all disjointed.
It's all over the place.
And we can actually pull together, you know, the kind of stuff that's being talked aboutin the news these days.
(29:34):
and build something that not only offers a service, but accelerates Canadian technologyand including software and hardware.
All of these things that we need here are available in Canada.
Not necessarily the case right now in terms of how it's being deployed, but we could pullall that together and really build something that has, you know, economic, let's say it
(29:57):
becomes an economic engine for those suppliers as well.
I mean, we're talking about
10 to 20 million dollars just in BC.
These are not small projects, right?
And then across the country, it's probably going to be 100 million plus if we do this.
So in order to scale in a good way, we need to bring all these pieces together, findCanadian suppliers, bring them into the picture.
(30:20):
And then we haven't talked about subsidies, whether it's California or the US or Canada.
This is a sector that has been subsidized by government programs, right?
to the tune of about 50 % of chargers and software that's going in.
That will continue to be the case.
Those programs will continue going.
(30:41):
And so that's an important element as well.
Both in BC, there's numerous programs available for providing public subsidies as well asthe national level.
And David has done an awesome job.
We meet regularly with all the funders for this.
kind of lining them up because they have a huge role to play as well.
(31:01):
But I think one of the unique things about this project is that if we can scale it, thatalso becomes an economic development project.
It's not just a subsidy to put two chargers in the local library.
So aggregating demand, creating a scaled up project has a number of other implications foreconomic development, which we haven't yet leveraged, frankly.
(31:25):
And that's one of the unique things about this project.
It's really amazing.
That's why I got excited actually, because it's, you you can pull all that stuff togetherand, you know, kind of meet multiple objectives at the same time.
You can help Canadian companies who are providing technology.
You can deliver a great service.
You can make money for the colleges and universities.
(31:46):
These are pretty unique aspects to any project.
Like it's not often that you get that kind of thing.
Yeah, and I think that's because of the nature of the BC Net Zero Innovation Network.
It's an ecosystem approach, you know, to innovation or problem solving, if you will.
It's really about deploying technology to get it at scale so that it's exportable and it'sexportable not just as a one-off company, but as a turnkey solution for other markets.
(32:13):
And I think sometimes what we see is you've got a whole bunch of independent companiesgoing after markets and one solves this piece of the value chain and another solves this
piece of the value chain and they're not working together.
Whereas projects like this give us the ability to consolidate all of that uh knowledge,that technology into concrete packages that we can then market, you know, to other places
(32:37):
who are going to need this infrastructure once the models are proven.
And by the way,
It's extremely hard to export when you haven't done something at home.
And so I applaud, you know, SFU and the other partners in the working group for beingreally open and embracing that there might be a little bit of risk and that's okay.
Risk is good.
We're gonna learn along the way.
(32:58):
It's not gonna be perfect.
We're gonna find out which technologies make sense, which aren't gonna be applicable here.
You know, do we need to create something new out of some of the gaps in the value chainfor this entire project?
All these things, like you said, they're exciting, they're ambitious, but they makebusiness sense while supporting our climate transition as well.
(33:20):
Yeah, so I'll throw an ask into this and this is sort of directed towards the funders.
And I mean, if you look at a project like this, there are six or seven major steps to theproject, right?
There's, say, a business analysis, a business case where you look at what your parkingsupply is, who your...
stakeholders you could service are, right?
(33:41):
Then you're doing, you know, an electrical engineering assessment or something along thoselines.
Then, you know, you're doing the installation, you're getting the EV chargers.
You know, then there's a whole software piece, both customer facing and backend.
Then there's a whole further contractual piece.
Are you working with light duty fleets?
Are you working with stratas?
(34:03):
And then there's, you know, I think the IP, the intellectual property portion of it,
where you're developing manuals and playbooks so that you can leverage this across uhother provinces, other campuses, that sort of thing.
Right now, there's no funder that will allocate money to all of those six or seven stepsin the process.
(34:27):
So we have to go to funder A for say the business case piece, funder B for say thehardware piece.
funders see.
So I mean, you know, that's one of the challenges we're facing uh moving forward.
And so why we're trying to get and have succeeded, actually, I do have to give thefunders, uh both the government agencies and the NGOs credit for this, you know, they have
(34:48):
been really interested in sitting in the room and, trying to figure this out.
But you know, at the end of the day, some of that is politics and, and policy.
And we'd really like to see that solved.
You know, the other thing is,
There's a springboard to the whole made in Canada developed in Canada piece, right?
(35:10):
So right now we've just talked about those six pieces that I've mentioned and there arepeople in Canada that do all of those things.
But we're already blue sky and other things we could do.
So a simple example is right now it goes power supply, meaning from hydro to the EVcharger to the car, right?
(35:31):
You could go
power supply to battery to EV charger to the car.
And for hospitals and universities, could that eliminate the need for backup dieselgenerators?
Could that uh mean that we're drawing power from the grid at low demand times?
Because for organizations like Hydro, it's not just how much power you need, but when youneed it.
(35:54):
So we have this plan and this concept now, but we're also fully realizing that there's anability for
researchers and entrepreneurs within Canada to take that to step two and to step three andto step four.
And you know that's one of the things that really excites me as well is you know we don'tneed to stop here.
(36:15):
We can keep going.
Thank you to Randy Zadra from the BC Net Zero Innovation Network and David Agosti fromSimon Fraser University for joining me today, sharing their passion and showing us how
collaboration and momentum are moving our communities forward sustainably.
We have serious activators in the ecosystem ready to trial and deploy technology pathwaysthat are not only a benefit to that community, but communities around the world.
(36:42):
And not only that, it's a repeatable model that can be applied to many other sectors andsituations.
So I hope that everyone got a real taste on what we can do if we've got working groups inaction.
If I were to leave our listeners with a final aha moment for this episode,
Especially if you're someone with influence, funding, or passion to advance cleantransportation, it's this.
(37:04):
The technology exists.
The models are working.
Now it's about bringing the right collaborators to the table.
When we connect innovators like Randy and David with the resources and support they need,when businesses, government, and community work together, we adopt real solutions and
accelerate tangible impact.
That's how we build a cleaner, more sustainable, and connected future for our children andfor generations to come.
(37:28):
Not someday, but right here, right now.
Next time on Clean Tech Forward.
What if garbage trucks moved in silence?
What if buses didn't just transport passengers, but powered the grid?
Join me as we explore the future of electrified municipal fleets and the BC innovatorsmaking it possible.
(37:54):
Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss it.
Clean Tech Forward is fueled by Foresight Canada's BC Net Zero Innovation Network, poweredby Pacific Economic Development Canada and the Government of British Columbia.
Learn more about how BC is driving the future of clean transportation at ForesightCAC.comslash British Columbia.
(38:33):
Clean Tech Forward is an everything podcasts production hosted by Jeanette Jackson andnarrated by me Tamara Stanners show runner and writer Jessica Grachik sound engineer
Jordan Wong executive producer Jennifer Smith
(38:56):
Another Everything Podcast production.
Visit everythingpodcast.com, a division of Patterson Media.
Subscribe wherever you get your podcast.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!