#44 Triumphs in Tennis and Trekking A Conversation with Austin McDaniel

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Stepping onto the court with a racket in hand, Austin McDaniel's life serves as a reminder that it's never too late to chase a passion. From his unlikely start in tennis at age 11 to his present-day adventures both on the trail and the tennis court, Austin's tale unfolds on this episode of Clever Angle. His story is more than just about hitting balls across the net; it's a chronicle of personal triumphs, strategic gameplay, and the joy of coaching players from their first serve to competitive college matches.

As a freelance tennis coach and hiking enthusiast, Austin delves into the art of balancing coaching techniques, the challenges of managing a varied schedule, and the importance of qualifications in professional tennis coaching. His experiences, particularly the transformative four-month trek on the Continental Divide Trail, reveal how pushing one's limits can uncover potential we never knew we had. Whether it's navigating a tough backhand or a rugged mountain trail, the lessons Austin shares resonate with anyone looking to master their craft or their next big adventure.

Wrapping up with a heartfelt reflection on the local tennis scene in Jonesboro, Austin touches upon the decline and resurgence of competitive play and the profound impact a dedicated coach can have on a player's growth. His life, interwoven with tales of strategic plays, transformative coaching, and the enriching experience of embracing one's passions, is an ace that's sure to inspire. For those itching to grab their rackets or lace up their hiking boots, Austin McDaniel's journey is one you won't want to miss.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome back to episode 44 of the Clever Angle
podcast.
Thank you for tuning in today,and today we have Austin
McDaniel.
He's a tennis professional.
Here in Jonesboro.
We're going to be talking aboutall things tennis and he has
some interesting hobbies thatwe'll be talking about.
As far as going around theworld, he just got back from a
backpacking trip and he's gotone scheduled for next year.

(00:38):
Austin, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Thank you, good to be here.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Absolutely, man.
How long were you gone for onthis last trip that you just
went on?

Speaker 2 (00:47):
So for my hiking trip this year, the continental
divide trail, I was gone forfour months on trail and give or
take a few days travel, so bigchunk of the year.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Absolutely.
We'll get into that a littlebit later, but I do have some
questions about that.
But we're here to go over justwhat you do as a tennis
professional and that sort ofthing.
So before we can get to yourcareer, I want to go through
kind of your origin story abouthow you got there.
So what was your life likegrowing up family life, school
and some of your interests whenyou were growing up?

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, I've always been a very active person and
ever since I was a kid I was theyoung one that was always
running around the neighborhoodwith anybody that I could find,
or sometimes by myself, alwaysoutside, always active.
Sports didn't come along untilmaybe I was nine or 10 and got
into basketball, had somefriends into that, started

(01:41):
getting into basketball, and Ithink I very quickly realized it
just wasn't my sport.
I don't know if I just wasn'tcompetitive enough, it wasn't
something that really got me andthen phased out of it.
And then when I was 11, Iactually me and my family, my
mom, dad and my older brother wemoved out to Ridge Point, which

(02:01):
is a neighborhood in town andthey have a country club around
and I knew of some of the kidsaround there and they all played
tennis, golf, other sports andI thought this is what they like
to do.
They don't want to just runaround throwing sticks in the
backyard like I used to.
I picked up tennis just out of away to hang out with people and
golf seemed boring at the timeand tennis quickly got my

(02:25):
attention.
I played like ping pong andthings like that and tennis made
sense and I think from the ageof 11 on.
I just got absolutely hooked onit.
I wanted to play every day, notto beat people or for the win,
but just the challenge of doingbetter and sticking with it.
And it just man, it reallykeeps your attention.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Absolutely, and it's interesting that you said you
started that around 11, becausehaving kids now it seems like
kids are getting into sports alot earlier than that, in 11,
interviewed Marco last week andhe was saying how 11, 12 was
like late to get into sportslike that.
So to hear you and him got intoit around the same age and now

(03:07):
you guys are coaching itprofessionally, that's
interesting.
My daughter has been incheerleading since she was three
so I'm like how much of adifference it would have made if
you would have picked it upearlier.
Coming from like, when we grewup it really wasn't pushed on us
that much, you just got to be akid more and I think now it's
more of a training so you can dosomething at the next level

(03:27):
past high school.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, I think part of the reason maybe for me getting
into it late was definitelyjust the exposure.
Once I was 11, it was therebecause I moved to a place where
it was there Beforehand.
I didn't know anybody thatplayed.
But also I'm 28 and whenever Iwas growing up playing they
didn't have what we call 10 andunder tennis, where they have

(03:51):
the smaller court, smallerrackets, lower compression
tennis balls.
And I think kids who got intotennis at a younger age back
then it was good.
It built their hand-eyecoordination, all that stuff.
But in some ways it could be adisadvantage.
They could learn bad habitsbecause the ball is higher,
their have, the rackets areheavier.
So some of my friends who Iplayed that had played before me

(04:13):
and since they were younger Ifeel like I didn't have that
much of a hard time catching upto them because we were all
learning the big court andlearning from being an older kid
that type of tennis as opposedto being small and having a ball
bounce above your head, and soit wasn't that big of a deal
back then getting into it late.
Now kids much earlier.

(04:34):
They're able to play early, getthe right fundamental, the
right technique and have theright equipment, it's a big
difference.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
You said you grew up playing with some friends and
some people in your family.
Who else in your family playstennis?

Speaker 2 (04:47):
Nobody.
I really was the lone tennisplayer for the most part in my
family.
My mom said she played in highschool very little.
I've never seen her with aracket in her hand.
I never got her out on thecourt.
It was never an interest forher to play anymore.
But she knew of the sport.
She knew about how it works.
So if we watched it on TV sheknew it was going on.

(05:08):
But other than that nobodyreally knew it was going on and
they didn't know how it workedand any of it really.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
So did you play like junior high school, like when
did you start playing your firstcompetitive match?

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Pretty much two weeks into playing I got talked into
playing a local tournament andmost local tournaments at the
time were all ran through thecountry clubs.
The country clubs had a prothere that was certified through
an organization we can talkabout later, usta, and there's
sanctioned events.
You sign up for a membership,you sign up for the tournament,

(05:44):
you go play, you have fun.
You most likely lose, but it'sabout playing and having fun.
And only playing two weeks Ithought I have nothing to lose
and my friends are playing, I'llplay and I remember playing in
it and they put me in a beginnerdivision.
I got lucky in one, but again,it's small stuff, it's local.
But that was the firstcompetitive tennis and then just

(06:04):
mostly stuck with that.
Tennis as far as school goesreally only happens at high
school level and when you playhigh school tennis it's a little
bit different ball game.
But most of the competitivetennis from juniors that they
care about is the USTA tennisthat's the year long and
sanctioned and ranked and allthat stuff.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
You said that you this was like two weeks after
you started playing you entereda tournament in one.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, it's just like a little one day tournament
system my friends and yeah, Idon't know.
I think it was the.
It's based off age division, soit was 12 and under tennis and
I don't know.
I think I was just athleticenough I could keep the ball in.
I knew strategy from mightsound funny, but ping pong it's
a racket sport so I could readangles and move well and hit the

(06:48):
ball in at that age.
That's all you need.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, was that a singles tournament or a doubles
tournament?

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Oh, that was singles, singles, singles, doubles would
have scared the crap out of me,yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
You said that pretty much you only play competitive,
like high school tennis at thehigh school level.
They care more about the USDAand things like that.
Take me through your Highschool tennis experience.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
So high school tennis I started right away ninth
grade, and I had a good group ofguys, a lot of my friends, that
were in ninth grade with me.
We all were able to join at thesame time.
We had a big group and when wejoined the high school team a
lot of the guys on the team wereseniors, and so it was an
interesting dynamic.
We had all these freshmencoming in and then seniors, but

(07:35):
yet I think a lot of us freshmenwere actually up to par with
those seniors.
A lot of the seniors.
There was a couple who werereally good and there was a few
who just played casually andthen all of us coming up at that
point had played competitively,took lessons, understood the
game really well, and so thatwas a fun dynamic beating up on

(07:56):
some of them.
And then, just through thecourse of high school tennis, I
played singles my first year anddid pretty well, got beat out
in state by the senior on theteam who was our number one
singles player at the time,which you know him as Jason
Morgan.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Oh, wow, yeah, I guess I didn't even realize that
y'all had played tennistogether.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah.
So he kicked my butt out of thesingles tournament my freshman
year and then I think he mighthave went on to win.
I'd have to ask him about that.
And then my junior year Iplayed doubles with one of my
good buddies on the team in thesame age and we did well, made
it to state finals and prettymuch won out, until again we

(08:40):
faced our own teammates and lostthere.
And then my junior year Iplayed singles, being the top
guy.
Okay, I got to throw this guyout in singles now and I went on
well, was able to win throughconference and state and all
that stuff.
And then senior year was alittle bit tricky.
I went into that year.
I got sick, really bad, withWest Nile.
It's a similar disease to itaffects you, similar like mono.

(09:03):
So I was very fatigued, verysick and weak and that was
pretty much hit me the wholesummer before my senior year.
And so when my senior year camearound, I played, but it was
couldn't practice, couldn't doanything, showed up, played my
match, went and slept on the busand then by the time the state
and conference came around, Iwas okay, ended up doing decent,
got beat out by a really goodplayer and every year we did win

(09:27):
as a team.
So that was good as earningdoing my job, at least earning
points for the team.
We won state every yearIndividually.
I won one year in singles, oneyear as a doubles team and then
the other two years got beat outin singles.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
So what was?
What is the scoring?
Like you said, you're scoringpoints for your team, like how
does a tennis match work as faras scoring goes?

Speaker 2 (09:48):
In high school tennis what you typically do is for
conference is you have a coupleof teams for doubles and then
you have two people playingsingles, and so they refer to as
a team of singles.
And when you're on the court,if you win your match, you win,
say, the very first match ofyour bracket.
You get a point and then youmove on to the next round.

(10:09):
And if you win that round youcould earn two points and so
your.
If your team is good from a widestandpoint you have a lot of
good players then you're gaininglots of individual points and
then, if you keep making itfurther, the points get more,
worth more.
And so if you make it to thefinals as an individual, you're
pretty much securing your teaminto a good spot.

(10:31):
And so doubles they're tryingto win.
They're earning one, one pointfirst round.
If everybody does that, you getfour points.
You move on up, everybody winsagain, you get two points.
Eventually you might play eachother, though, because it's
still bracket style and then theyeah, you're just trying to win
as many matches as you can andat the end you got to hope that
your team wins more points soyou can win a state tournament

(10:53):
title for your high school andnot have anybody individually
win If your, if your team isdoing good enough.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Yeah, so concluding your senior year.
What was your plan for tennisin college after that?

Speaker 2 (11:08):
I think, getting pretty sick.
That summer really hurt mebecause, again, most high level
tennis is actually playedoutside of high school tennis
through USDA and I wasn't ableto really compete any.
There was no tournaments toshow what I can do and stuff
like that, people scouting andstuff like that.

(11:28):
They really only have my junioryear to look at.
And then I think for me as aplayer, that kind of got me a
little bit.
It made me feel a little weak.
It made me felt like I wasn'table to produce the type of
tennis that I knew I could.
I kept playing.
I definitely didn't lose anylove for it.
But when it came time forpicking a college I got decent

(11:52):
offers.
I was looking at maybe divisiontwo or some really low level
division one, but when it cameto offers, most of them almost
all of them they're out of stateand with men's tennis the
scholarship money that you canpotentially get is pretty low.
It ended up my decision endedup being based mostly
financially.
I stayed in town in Jonesboro,went to ASU where they don't

(12:15):
have a men's tennis team, butthe price for me to attend ASU
was the same or less than if Ihad traveled away from home and
competed in tennis and notreally sacrificing tennis
because, again, it's USTA, it'sa lifelong sport.
You can still get thatcompetitive itch.
I stayed in town, was able toactually pick up my tennis

(12:37):
career and start working doingthat early and still competed
through USTA tennis and then Ididn't really didn't end up not
going anywhere to play.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
So when you just graduated high school, what
level were you playing USTAtennis at?

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Juniors is a little bit different than adult tennis.
Adult tennis has like a systembased off 0.5.
You start as a 2.0, you canmove up to 2.5 and so on.
Junior tennis it's really justyou play tournaments, you can
win points, and then you can seehow many points you have
compared to other people in yourstate, maybe like top 20 or 30,

(13:14):
something like that.
I didn't really compete heavilyin tournaments, but if I was
playing in a tournament, most ofthe time especially if it was
local I felt like I had a chanceto win.
So it was always like an uppercategory.
If I was traveling out of stateto play, that's where the
competition was always a littlebit above me.
But when it came to high schooltennis, I felt there wasn't
anybody that could beat me.
My mindset was I'm going to goout there, I'm a favorite, I'm

(13:37):
going to win.
And then when I graduated Icould play adult tennis when
you're the year you turn 18.
And I was like okay, I'm goingto go play 4.5.
And I know that doesn't meanmuch to maybe some people
listening, but 4.5 is thatthreshold where people go.
Okay, you pretty much havemastered everything.
You're a really good player.

(13:57):
And when I started playingadult tennis, I actually started
off as 4.0 because I hadsomeone talk me into it.
They're like, hey, this is yourfirst year, you can self-rate,
and if you only did high schooltennis I could play it 4.0.
And so I actually got to playon two different 4.0 teams, one
through Arkansas and one throughTennessee, and that was a lot
of fun.
Then the next year you getbumped up.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
But yeah, how did you do during that year that you
were a 4.0?

Speaker 2 (14:24):
It was a good year.
I don't think I lost anymatches.
I played on a team throughArkansas and we played our.
You have a little districtthing where you play some local
people and then if your teamwins out that you go play a
state tournament.
And it's similar to high school, where you have a team and you
play other teams and you'retrying to win a majority of the
courts and then if you winmajority of the courts, you move

(14:46):
on to the next matchup againstanother team and so on.
And the way the courts aredivided out is you typically
have two singles courts and thenyou have three courts that are
doubles.
So you would need six peopleplaying doubles, two people
playing singles at minimum.
I played singles every year.
That's my game, it's what I hadfun doing and they pretty much
knew if they stuck me out there,we're going to win at least one

(15:07):
court, and so for Arkansas team, that was the case.
And then on the Tennessee team,that was the case and that was
a lot of fun.
Those guys, even though it'sTennessee and I'm from Arkansas.
If you're having a USTA team,you can have a certain amount of
out of state players, as longas the majority of the team are
from the state.
And so they recruited me andone of the other guys that I

(15:28):
played with here in Arkansas andthey essentially they're like
hey, we'll let you room with usand stuff this and that We'll
pay for your dinners and it'sgoing to be a good time.
And so I got to go play withthem and kick some butt and we
won the Tennessee State 4-0.
And then Arkansas Our, myArkansas team actually lost the
4.0.
And I remember beating a guy onmy last match that day and as I

(15:50):
beat him he smiled he's likeyou might have beat me.
It looks like we're the teamgoing to state or going to
sectionals.
I said, oh, don't worry, I'llsee you there.
And he smiled, turned into afrown what do you mean?
I said I got to play throughTennessee, so I'm going to, I'm
going through Tennessee and Igot to play him in sectionals
and beat him and it was prettyfun.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
So, yeah, that's awesome Me and he's here too.
He doesn't have a mic, butwe've done some lessons with you
.
How would you describe yourgame?
We've never really seen youactually play, other than like
feeding balls, and so so I.
What did your game look likewhen you're competing in leagues
and stuff?

Speaker 2 (16:23):
man, it is drastically changed since
juniors to adults.
So growing up I did play awhole lot and I went to a lot of
clinics and stuff like that,but as far as one on one
professional instruction weweren't really in the place to
have a lot of that.
I wasn't able to take lessonsand I would take a maybe One
thirty minute lesson a monthwith the coach work on something

(16:45):
, and then I was pretty studiousmyself to actually go out and
do that.
But even then I developed myown game where I had a pretty
extreme four hand grip and my myforehand developed into this
real heavy western western gripfor people who know the grips
and stuff, very heavy topspingame on the guy that I feel no
rafael, no dog had that kind ofwippy forehand that just spins

(17:08):
of all deep to the court.
But then my backhand I couldn'treally learn how to do it to
hand very well.
I grew up throwing frisbees andso I always had a natural One
hand motion to come through andso I had a one hand backhand
from the get go and it was alsoa little bit extreme due to I
didn't know you're supposed tochange grips.
So my forehand grip I had thesame grip and then I would turn

(17:31):
my racket over and use the samegrip on my one hand backhand.
The motion was fluid andtechnically sound, but the grip
was a little extreme.
So very spin, heavy off bothsides.
I was very crafty because Iplayed people who had much
better training than me and Ihad to find other ways to win.
So Very junk bally, throw thelow slice of the lobs, bring
people to net, pass them moonball, high topspin, all kinds of

(17:54):
crazy stuff.
And when I was eighteen Iessentially started coaching
tennis and realized, okay, ifI'm using a western grip and I'm
hitting with a ten year oldover there, I probably shouldn't
be whipping a bunch of heavytopspin at him, so I'll just
slow it down.
But with that grip it wasreally difficult.
So I learned if I switch mygrip to more Traditional grip I

(18:17):
can hit the ball flatter andlower to this to a kid or a
beginner.
Out of necessity for coachingactually switched up my grip and
then switching my grip meant Ihad to use a different grip on
my backhand.
That changed my whole game.
I just reworked it.
Now I'm more of a traditional,lower flatter, still throw out
the whip before hand, but I'm.
My game is always been Heavytopspin.

(18:38):
Stay at the baseline.
I rely on speed, second rundown shots, throw the junk ball
at people and just make peoplebeat me.
If they're gonna beat me, theyneed to earn it and they don't
all quickly, piece by piece,take them off the court.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah.
So how long did it take you,from when you were still
competing at the four levelgamut of four five to where you
are like, okay, I'm going topursue a career in coaching?

Speaker 2 (19:05):
The transition was a little odd, I think.
I don't want to say I got ropedinto it because I always wanted
to do it, but when I was in allthe way back in junior high we
had to do.
You had a shadow for a job, soyou pretty much had to intern
with someone and thirteen orfourteen year old me have rolled
.
I want to intern my tenniscoach.
I was interested, it seemsreally cool, and I did that and

(19:27):
I think ever since then and backin my head I thought that'd be
cool to do.
And so when I was eighteen andI made the decision to stay in
my hometown to go to college, Ithat man, I was here.
So during that summer afterhigh school, I'm here in town.
I'm not really doing anythingwork wise.
I had been working I can getinto that later earlier but I

(19:48):
was working it trim jim, thelocal tennis racket club area,
doing equipment work and stuff.
But as far as coaching, when Iwas eighteen I got hired at
ridge point to fill in forclinics and stuff like that and
they just kind of needed aalmost just needed like an extra
body on the court to fill inand they knew I could do it.

(20:08):
And the next thing, you know,they want the pros left, and so
then they need a new pro.
And then it was like I'm doinggood, they're training me and I
just got hired on to it, so youwant the job.
It's open now is like yeah,sure, so I just kept going with
it.
And next thing, a few yearsgoes by and yeah, I just settled

(20:29):
into it.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
At that point where you had got you accepted that
job?
Were you certified at thispoint or you just had experience
on the court and was around theclub and they just knew you so
they just allowed you to teach.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
It was definitely a benefit of connections there.
Everybody there knew me.
It was the club I grew upplaying at and I always, even
from a young age, I played withthe adults there, so they knew I
was respectable, they knew Imannered and stuff like that,
and when they needed somebodyand I jumped in, it was just
yeah, they knew I was a goodplayer, they knew I communicated

(21:06):
well with people and then,after filling in for those
clinics when they needed someone, they trained me and they saw
that I could fundamentals, Icould feed well, I had a good I
to recognize different thingsand that was it.
I didn't really have to proveby certification, it was more
Trial by fire.
They saw me in the work so whatI could do, help me do it

(21:27):
better and things like that.
I was always asking questionsto figure out how to do it
better and that's where itprogressed.
And then from there, after onceI'm there for a year or two, it
was one of those things whereexperience comes everything, and
so experience by being there,doing it, learning and then
results people coaching you can.

(21:47):
I was able to see if peoplecould see where they're going
from, where they started, andthat's the number one thing was
experience.
I had work.
Part of the job at the countryclub was also shop work.
We had a shop, had to do allthe other stuff string rackets,
maintain courts, run leagues,charge bills and I was already
doing all that type of work tothis other facility trim gym and

(22:08):
sorry, knew all that stuff.
So that was a big benefit.
Other outside experience, otherthan just on court coaching, I
think helped.
But the number one thing wasjust being well Connected with
people, being able tocommunicate, being good enough
as a player to do the work to.
If you can't feed the ball, ifyou can't hit back and forth
with people, right, that's kindof part of it.

(22:29):
So you can be a good player.
But then you also have to havea good eye.
You gotta be able to see whatother people are doing, why
they're doing what they're doing, how to fix what they're doing,
and that can be tricky to.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
How would you describe your coaching so?

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Oh man, I think I try to be a technique first type of
person I don't know if that'sjust because I like that as a
junior and I had to develop itmyself that I feel to me that's
one of the most important thingsI can give to people, because
Anybody can go out and hit.
But I feel like your onlypractice doesn't make perfect.

(23:04):
You just practice makes youbetter.
Whatever you practice, ifyou're practicing wrong
technique, you're just gonna getbetter at it and that's not
good.
So if I can teach people propertechnique and really home that
in, then anytime they're nothitting with me, we're working
with anybody.
They're gonna continue to getbetter.
So I think I try to dotechnique heavy first.

(23:25):
If they're an advanced playerthat shifts a little bit, it's
definitely very drills, movement, a lot of fitness stuff like
that, and strategy, live ballplay, a lot of things like that.
But yeah, beginners,intermediate players technique
first for sure.
Beginners is also trickybecause you want them to have
fun, you want them to show upand feel like they're studying

(23:46):
for a test.
You try to have that, thatblend of okay, I wanna, if I
know they want to get better andI want to stick with it than,
yes, technique.
But if they're just gettinginto the game, my goal is to get
them playing as quick as I canand then try to adjust the
technique accordingly.
But technique first, yeah forsure that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
how would current Austin coach high school Austin?
Oh gosh that like what, ifanything about your game would
you change?
Because you said you when youstarted coaching, you change
from the western grip and allthose things.
If you had a student like thatcome in, wanting to get better,
wanting to work with you, wouldyou change his backhand?
Would you change like what weresome things that you would give

(24:26):
yourself back then?

Speaker 2 (24:29):
So when I did is a junior get the chance to work
with the coach?
Part of that was wasn't theirfault that my technique wasn't
changed.
I was already doing what wecall best practice.
I was already doing what I wasdoing at a high level.
So it's do we really change itin, risk Going backwards and
then they're not being able tocatch up before it's too late.

(24:51):
So if I was coaching myself, Imight not change Too much of
certain things like technique,but I would probably change the
backhand because the backhandgrip Was an issue and if that
had been changed that would haveprobably helped more than it
would have hurt.
Would have been a quick fix.
And then my volleys.

(25:12):
I had my body technique was offbecause I never followed, had
that extreme grip as always atthe baseline, hitting crazy top
spin.
So I would work with myself orvolleys and then Course overtime
coaching.
You get really good at volleys.
That's where you're at most ofthe time is up at the net.
But yeah, I would work on mytechnique with my backhand.
The forehand technique wasn'tnecessarily the problem.
It was the lack of switchinggrip from the western backhand

(25:36):
Sorry, from the western forehandgrip.
It was the fact that I didn'treally know to change my grip.
That was the biggest techniqueissue.
The forehand was a littleextreme but it was technically
sound.
The backhand was dialed andworked for me, but it was not
technically sound.
I just got good at it frompractice.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Absolutely.
What is a typical day look likefor you?
Or let's say, a typical weekwas a typical week.
Look like for you now.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
So now it's definitely a little more chaotic
.
When I was at the country clubsI was there for almost 10 years
Ridge Point Country Club forfive and Jonesboro Country Club
for about five and then now I'mfreelancing my coaching, working
with Coach Marco here, the EarlBell courts and stuff, and

(26:20):
doing it all on my own.
Essentially, I have to do myscheduling a little bit better.
I have to be on top of it, likemessaging everybody, because
the times are not consistent,because I am basing my times off
weather a lot more.
So if the weather's bad on thedays I normally coach somebody,
I can't coach them.
I got to make sure to checkwith them and see if I can

(26:41):
switch to a different day.
So I spend a lot of the earlyparts of the day making sure I'm
contacting people and you knowthe phone work and then when it
comes time to actually go coach,I, you know, make sure I got
all my stuff I need and stufflike that comfortable clothes.
You need to make sure you havethe shoes and rackets and
everything.
But you show up and I get allmy equipment out.

(27:02):
I try to stack my lessons.
If I have three, four lessons,some of those lessons might be
using different equipment and Ihave to make sure I grab all
that equipment at once when Istart the first lesson,
otherwise I'm leaving the courtand you don't want to do that.
I'm having to leave the courtand go grab other equipment and
waste time.
Make sure you get all theequipment out there so I can get
going, and then, yeah, it'sjust an hour and it rolls into

(27:23):
the next hour.
Depends on the lessons.
If it's a group lesson it cango longer.
But yeah, I'm typically on thecourt.
You don't really sit down atall.
You don't really have time toreally eat much if you're
stacking a big day, so it can bephysically.
It is very physically verydraining and you're just, yeah,
just kind of work with everybody.
You got to have like pretty,pretty good attitude the whole

(27:45):
time.
You got to have a lot of energyEven if you don't have it.
You just have to fake itbecause you don't want you know
you don't want the person acrossthe net from you or people to
feed off your energy if it'snegative.
You want to make sure you'realways there ready to go
positive and so trying to prettymuch maintain that through the
whole day and keep it up foreverybody and give them the best
you can.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
So basically every day is a little bit different.
Just to be on weather and howmany clients would you say
you're currently working withjust ballpark number.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
Right now doing things the way I'm doing right
now, I think hours wise, it's alittle tricky because one of the
big cons of leaving four tofive months for a hike and just
saying see ya and then comingback, and especially coming back
in the winter, I'm not going tobe able to pick up the clients
until probably springtime.
But right now, even witheverything being the way it is,

(28:34):
you'd probably tend to just 10to 12.
That's hours.
So, like some of those aregroup lessons, some of those are
split lessons.
People wise gosh, I have noidea.
Sometimes I'm in and out, I'mcoaching the after school kids
and there's there's probably 15,20 just there that you mingle
with, and I have a couple ofdifferent groups adult teams

(28:55):
they could have anywhere fromthree to six people on each one,
and then I have probably threeor four of my hours Otherwise,
or split lessons.
So there's a couple of peoplethere, so I'm in contact with a
lot of people.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
It's one of those things that'slike you eat what you kill.
So you're just out here gettingclients making sure that
everything's scheduled and, likeyou said, now that you're not
you know, technically a part ofa structured club, it's more so
like a sole proprietorship.
It's more on you to set theschedule.
So we talked a little bit aboutUSDA and qualifications.

(29:28):
What are your?
Do you have any qualificationsnow as far as like, level one,
two, three, or are you stilljust based on experienced?

Speaker 2 (29:36):
So when I was at rich point and I guess I should say
this is back in 2013, when Ifirst started there, I initially
just was working there andthere wasn't any expectation
that I would need to go getcertified.
And then our director at thetime mentioned it to me and one
of the other pros like okay,like for our entire work staff,

(29:58):
like me and the two other people, they're like we should all
have certification and I'm sure.
And so we went through anorganization called us PTA and
at the time the certificationwas pretty tricky.
It was a little bit, I wouldn'tsay difficult, but it was
tricky to get organized becauseyou had to do, you had to work

(30:20):
with this guy, jim, and just gothim Jim can't remember his name
.
You worked through us PTA andyou had to do these workshops
and essentially you got testedon your abilities.
So he would feed you certainshots you had to execute, say,
10 cross court, forehandtopspins.
10 down the line, topspin,backhand, same thing.

(30:41):
Then you had to do underspin,all the same thing.
You had to execute your volleyslike deep cross court, short
cross court, same thing on theforehand and backhand.
You had to execute a three ball, three bouncing drop shot
before it left the serve box andif you weren't getting nine out
of 10 or 10 out of 10 on allthose, you would get deducted.
And then after that youessentially got a rating.

(31:01):
I think the ratings were like Ithink you could be a recreation
coach and that was pretty muchthe you just paid for membership
type thing.
I think there was probably moreto that.
And then it was like P one, ptwo, p three, and I think I said
that backwards like P one wasthe best you wanted to get to.

(31:21):
But pretty much you would neverget rated P one on your first
go.
They want you to be at least aP three or P two and then you
retest, you can get it.
And so me and this guy, we didpretty well.
We got rated P two at the timeand now I think that it's just
listed as professional status.
I think there's it's notrecreation, but there's a level.

(31:42):
Then there's professional andthen I think there's like elite,
and elite is someone who's beendoing it, certified 10 years
and other stuff or somethingcrazy.
But yeah, I've just maintainedthe regular professional status.
It's not something I've everneeded to look good on a resume
Most jobs.
Back five, six years ago.
I looked into some other jobsin the country just to see what
the resumes they were lookingfor and most of them they were

(32:04):
looking for if you were had twoyears of experience or you were
maybe certified and I was likeblow that out the water.
So I just didn't.
I never really cared too muchabout it.
I think if you're getting intothe job, it's.
It can be more helpful.
If you don't have connectionsat facilities and things like
that and people who know yourcredibility.
It can be a way to get yourfoot in the door, make some

(32:24):
connections, but for the mostpart it's never been the driving
factor of me applying for a job.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Absolutely.
I started playing tennis abouta year and a half ago and I
don't know what it is abouttennis.
Maybe you can elaborate alittle bit on this.
It's a.
It's something.
It's an addicting sport.
It's something that, once youget into it, your research and
your rackets and how to hitstuff.
Do you think that people canlearn solid technique from like
YouTube videos and things likethat, or would you recommend

(32:54):
someone that's a beginner,that's wanting to get into it,
to immediately start with acoach?

Speaker 2 (32:59):
I think you would want to, if you're getting into
it and you know you like it.
Like I would recommend, go outthere, try to hit one or two
times and if you think you'regoing to like it, then, yeah, I
would definitely recommend acoach, because, I mentioned
earlier, I think technique isthe foundation.
If you're just playing all thetime or you're trying to do it

(33:21):
yourself by looking at videosonline, the videos show you the
right thing, but they don't tellyou if you're doing it or not,
and so you could think you'redoing something.
It could feel a certain way,but it takes the right eye to go
no, this isn't quite doing whatyou think it's doing.
You need to try to make it dothis or feel like it's this, and
that's the pro con of the video.

(33:44):
I like videos.
I reference them to some people.
I'll be like, hey, check thisout.
This is a good example of whatI was telling.
You see how this person isdoing this.
This is what we're trying to donow.
Let's work on that, and thenI'll go on the court and work
with them and they have thatreference in their head of the
video.
Since I can't have themsometimes, I can have them feed
me a ball, I can demonstrate,but other times videos are good

(34:04):
for that demonstration purpose.
But as far as learning, I thinkyou still you're better off
just get a coach and even ifit's only once a month type of
thing, to check what you'redoing and make sure it's set
right, if you really want to getserious with it and you want
more consistency.
But yeah, you would want to,you'd want the coaching for sure
.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
Starting to play tennis.
It's one of those things thatyou use muscles that you
normally don't use all the time.
Yeah, your forearms are hurtingor parts of your legs are
hurting, things like that.
What are some good recoverytips from when you're starting
that can help you keep your bodyin playing shape?

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Oh, I'm the absolute worst at this.
I've always been a just go,never stop, never stretch, and I
think now that I'm getting alittle older, I'm not regretting
it, but I'm realizing theimportance of that recovery
you're talking about.
I think one of theunderestimated things is
actually is just sleep and diet.
If you're being really activeall the time, you want to make
sure you're eating well, youwant to make sure you're eating

(35:04):
the right calories so you don'tget tired the next day and your
body can heal and can recover.
And when you're, if you're notsleeping very well, same thing.
So those are two overlookedthings.
And then the other thing is Ican just say stretching.
There's a low hanging fruitthere, but you could take it up
a notch.
If you really feel like you'regetting pretty sore the next day

(35:27):
, then I would try to maybestart implementing some yoga and
just make stretching somethingthat you do not just after a
tennis, but make it a allencompassing thing.
Just be more flexible as aperson, because if you're pretty
stiff as it is and you're goingout there and you're trying to
play something as dynamic astennis it's more of a you could

(35:47):
get injured.
And if you're hurting, if youfind yourself hurting in a
specific spot all the time aftertennis, then yeah, you might
want to isolate that and dothose specific stretches after
your matches and stuff.
For the most part it's yeah,diet, sleep and then just a
little bit of focus off.
The court is where it'simportant.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah, Another area that I wanted to ask you about
was just the racket.
There's just so many it's likeoverload.
When you start trying to figureout what kind of racket you
want to get at the beginning, itdoesn't really matter if this
racket helps you with topspin.
You don't know how to dotopspin.
So what are some beginnerfriendly rackets, like two or

(36:30):
three, that you would recommendto somebody?
Because I think there's a lotof beginners that are in the
area and they always ask me andI'm like man, I honestly just
picked one that looked cool andthen I just figured out how to
use it.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yeah, man, yeah, rackets are really tricky
because props to the companiesthey do all the marketing to say
you need this and that, but inreality you can get something
and stick with it for a longtime.
And so what that something isshould be a high quality and
simple racket.

(37:01):
And what I mean by simple isyou don't want something too
light, you don't want somethingtoo heavy, you don't want
something that's trying to dosome type of gimmick or anything
, you just want baseline middleground.
Sometimes beginners think theyneed the big, oversize heads
because they can get more powerand they don't know power yet.
Sometimes they think that theyneed, they think that they need

(37:22):
rackets to be lighter so theycan swing them faster, but in
reality you don't.
You want a good amount of weighton a racket because that gives
you stability.
You don't want too much becausethen you can't swing it.
Head size you don't want it toobig because then it's just
trampling effect.
You're going to lose control.
A recommendation I always giveto everybody is Wilson.
They make a racket called theUltra with a U, and if you get

(37:46):
the Ultra in the 100 square inchhead size, which is a baseline
middle I was talking about anyracket in that head size is
going to be good.
And then the weight is about 10and a half ounces.
So again it's that middleground weight.
It's not too heavy but it's gotenough weight that it's not
going to be flimsy.
And then grip size just gomiddle line.

(38:07):
There's one, two, three, four.
Just get a two or three sizegrip If your hands normal, get a
three.
If you're worried about it, geta two.
You can always put an over grip.
So, yeah, that Wilson Ultra isa good one to look at.
Head is another company.
They make a racket called theRadical.
It's a little bit smaller head,but it fits that category of
stability.
The weight and you want theyeah, you want that 10.6, 10.8

(38:32):
ounce range.
And then Babelot is another bigcompany.
They make a racket called thePure Strike.
Pure Strike is one of theirmore controlled based rackets
and what that means is it's gotthat head size you're looking
for that kind of 98 to 100square inches.
It's got the weight, that 10and a half ounce range, and
compared to their other racketsand for that company the weight

(38:55):
is distributed more like equallythroughout the circumference of
the head of the racket, so itgives you more stability.
Some rackets do suit players,some players better, so like the
Aero Babelot, aero is a racketthat a lot of spin heavy people
like it's not because it givesthem top spin, but if they know
how to hit top spin properly,you can get more width on the

(39:16):
racket because more of theweight's at the end and so it
kind of whips and less of theweight is on the sides.
But for most people you don'twant that.
You want middle ground oneverything and then later on, as
you develop your game and youfeel like you need something
that's a better tool for acertain thing, then you can
switch rackets.
But yeah, baseline, you justwant that 98 to 100 square

(39:37):
inches, no more.
You want weight, about 10 and ahalf ounces and you want that
middle ground on the grip two tosize, two to size three.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
It's interesting that you name those three rackets
because, doing my own research,I never came across it as any of
those rackets.
As, hey, this is what youshould get as a beginner.
I've heard of the Pure Arrowand I play with the shift and,
like I said, there's just somuch information out there you
don't know which direction toreally go.

(40:06):
So that's interesting that yousaid that In preparation for
this episode, I was listening tothe other episode that you were
on the day 41 podcast.
I'll have that linked in theshow notes and a quote on there
really stuck with me and yousaid I left my dream job for a
dream.
Would you consider coachingtennis your dream job?

Speaker 2 (40:29):
If you got to do a job and make money then yeah,
it's for sure.
I still love being on the court.
I like having the racket in myhand, like hitting a ball what's
as simple as that.
It's the thing that attractedme to the sport in general was I
saw a ball and there's justsomething about hitting it with
the racket on the strings andwatching it fly through the air
in the exact way that youintended.

(40:50):
There's just satisfying, and sowhen I'm coaching, I'm getting
a little bit of that.
Obviously, it's about the otherperson, but seeing that other
people achieve that goal of Ihave this thing in my hand, this
tool, and I'm trying tomanipulate this thing through
space across the court and thenwatching them get better at that

(41:10):
and better at it and then makeit not just something they're
trying to do, like golf, butthen also compete against
someone to do it better thanthem, to use their tools that
they have to do it better, andso to see people do that after
they've worked on it really hardis always satisfying.
To be able to be on the courtmyself and still hit tennis
balls all the time, and, yeah, Ilove it.

(41:32):
If I couldn't do it, I'd be veryupset, and even being on this
long hike it sounds funny, but Iwas like I had days where I was
like I wish I could.
I wish I was just on the courttoday.
I wish I was.
Even if it's working withsomebody, it's still being on
the court.
So tennis is still definitely adream job for me.
It's not if I didn't have tomake the money doing it.

(41:53):
I guess that'd be a dream, butsince I need to make money in
life and it pays, it's a job.
And so it's a dream job, though, because I do still love being
on the court every day.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
Do you have an example of someone that you
worked with?
You started working with themand then they've had good
results from your coaching.
That made you feel.
Do you have a story that youcould share?

Speaker 2 (42:16):
The tricky thing is being at one club for five years
and another club for four yearsand then being here for the
Chameau now last year.
I've not had too many peoplethat I've worked with from, say,
stark Young Jr all the way upto, say, college, but there's
been a few and so I think, morethan an individual case, I've

(42:37):
had many people that I've beenable to work with who went on to
play college tennis.
There was, as far as that agegroup, a lot of the people I
worked with at Ridge Point.
There was a few from that groupthat went on to play college
tennis and seeing them competeat that level is definitely
satisfying.
Knowing man, I remember beingon the court with them with that
orange ball, that lowcompression, teaching them the
first time they were doing topspin and stuff like that and

(42:58):
seeing how it's progressed.
Or whether it's certain adultswho, when I was at Jonesville
Country Club, I have a fewadults that I worked with out
there who started off as two,fives and three O's and now I'm
looking at them like they'recompeting at four O and stuff
like that and seeing theirsuccess on how well they're
striking the ball and doing thisand that, how that technique.
That looked good but wasobviously shaky because they

(43:19):
weren't comfortable with it.
And see now how okay they havethe technique now they're
comfortable with it.
Wow, look what they're doing.
So being able to see that hasbeen good.
It's more of a broad thing.
Because there's not too manyindividuals that I've been able
to stick with too long, I'llshout out Greg Arnold.
He was somebody.
He's an older, a little bitolder guy.

(43:39):
He's late 40s, 50s and he's theowner of Backbeat Music and
he's always kept tennis as acompetitive thing for him.
It's something he did forfitness, to maintain his fitness
, but he's a high level player.
He was a four O and then Ijumped into JCC.
He was working with him andhe'd been alive like a four O
for a long time and he wouldbump up to four or five

(44:00):
sometimes and go back down, buthe was willing to work on new
things.
He worked on those new thingsand next thing, we took away
some of his weaknesses, we madehim advantages and he's
consistently a big threat atfour or five doubles and it's
like man, everyone's like wheredid that come from?
He's been this four O for solong, so I think that's actually

(44:20):
one of my favorite cases whereyou have someone who came and
they had been working withpeople and I jumped in and I
don't know if I just clickedwith them right, saw the right
things, and then now boom laterin life and they're playing
their best tennis.
Yeah, stuff like that's alwaysmy favorite.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Being a predominantly singles player, was it
difficult for you to get intocoaching doubles.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
I definitely played a lot of doubles.
I actually I played a lot ofhigher level tennis.
Once I was 18, or even as ajunior, I was able to play me
and some of my buddies wouldplay in adult tournaments
because you could play in whatwe call the open division.
The open division would only bedoubles, and so we would.
In order to play up againstsome of the adults who were four

(45:06):
, five and five O level, we hadto play doubles, and so, out of
necessity for that higher levelcompetitive play, we would play
doubles, and I would always seehow much better they executed
things and how easy they made itlook.
And so when it came time for meto coach, I already had an idea
of what I didn't do.

(45:27):
Well, and it's almost weird, Ialmost learned because of the
lack of my own ability.
I learned what I would wannateach in people.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
Man.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
I don't do.
I'd never did this well, so ifI can teach other people to do
it, that's what they would wannado.
Not playing a ton of doubles orhaving too much initial
instruction on it wasn't toomuch of a setback because I
could, with experience, tellthem hey look, you're gonna
wanna learn to do this, becauseif you don't trust me, you're
gonna regret it Like it's gonna.
You're gonna have a hard timeif you're not closing into the

(45:57):
net, for example, if you're nothitting those good angles, if
you're not being safer on yourserve, whatever it is, if you're
having a singles mindset whereyou don't wanna close the net,
if you wanna go for the bigserves, all these things.
If you're just trying to passpeople all day long, I can tell
you it doesn't work.
So when I started being a lotmore studious with doubles and
then helping people in doubles,yeah, I feel like I didn't have

(46:19):
too much issue.
There it was.
Yeah, it was welcome.
I like it, it's fun.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Now, when was the last time you played a
competitive match?

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Oh gosh.
So last year or this year I hadmy big long hike and before I
did that hike, I was lookinginto hopefully being able to
play USTA Adult League Tennisagain and I started talking to
some of the guys this was backearlier in February and they
informed me that like we don'treally have enough people to
play 18 and over 4-5.

(46:49):
So good luck.
And just being where I was withmy interest, I was like I'm not
gonna go out of state to goplay, I'm not gonna bother to do
that.
And since I didn't get to play,or I knew I wasn't gonna play,
I didn't really make it a bigdeal to find a tournament or
anything.
And then, if you go backwardsfrom there, I had the holidays

(47:12):
and then last year I was onanother long hike, which I was
gone even longer.
It was five and a half monthsand so it didn't play there.
So my last competitive tenniswas probably early 2022 or late
2021, so it's been a minuteLooking to get it back this year
.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
Yeah, so do you think that?
Why do you think that there'snot that many people around here
at the higher levels that play,cause you said 4-0, 4-5,
they're probably 40 and overthat are still playing around
here?
What happens to all thesepeople that go and they're good
in the state and then they justdisperse, like what happens to

(47:50):
people from high school andcollege, to where they don't
play anymore?

Speaker 2 (47:55):
Two things.
I think on a broad scale youget a lot of people who, if
they're good enough to be 4-5and 5-0, a lot of them probably
played when they were younger,they probably had instruction,
they probably did tournamentsand all this stuff made it their
life, and I think they getburned out.
So there's burnout problems.
So a lot of people get burnedout.
But then when they're 30, 40,they go.

(48:16):
Man, I only get back doingsomething again and they get
back into it and it's likeriding a bike If you were good
at tennis you can pick it backup Not maybe not the level they
left, obviously, but they pickit back up.
And so you see that.
But then I think in Jonesborospecifically, we lose a lot of.
I had a lot of my friends whomoved off to, say, fayetteville,

(48:38):
or they now live in Little Rock, and so Little Rock has a good
amount of guys that are 4-5 andup for sure, but something
Jonesboro's just tricky.
I think it's burnout and Ithink maybe a lot of the higher
level athletes left for otherstuff.
And then in general, thatcategory, the managed as many
players who've reached thatlevel, and the ones who don't

(49:00):
get burned out yeah, they stickaround and play, but even then
it's not guaranteed that they do.
And yeah, it's just harder.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
Yeah, yeah, me and E talk about this all the time and
it's like almost burning thecandle from both ends, because
when we entered the tennis scenethere really wasn't a 2-5
sector either.
So there's not really new adultguys that are 18 and up that
are wanting to play tennis, andthen there's not higher level.
So you've got a small group inthe middle there.

(49:30):
So in my experience, you justplay the same people like over
and over from the 2-5 to really3-5 is where we're playing right
now.
So, yeah, I was just curiouslike where they all went,
because me and E were alwayslike, yeah, who do you think
would win between Marco andAustin If they played singles?
Who would win?
Because that level of tenniswe're just not used to seeing

(49:54):
any one play.
So I was just curious aboutthat.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
And something else I didn't think about until you
mentioned about coming on thescene and it being tricky to
play 2-5 is that I forget.
Up until three or four yearsago we didn't really have much
public tennis.
Most of our tennis in town wasactually.
If you're looking forinstruction or a league or
anything, you had to be at aclub.
You had to be at the club.
And so the problem there is,you're just not yeah, you're not

(50:19):
bringing in the new numbers.
And so when you look later downthe line, you're like we're all
the 4-5s.
There wasn't enough 4-0s thatbumped up this year, so why
wasn't there enough 4-0s?
And eventually you go down andyou go all the 2-5s coming in
and you look at places likeLittle Rock and Bigger Towns,
where they have we have Burnsout there, for example, they
have leagues constantly going onAll those courts.

(50:40):
There's 30 plus courtsconstantly getting filled and it
took a while for Jonesboro toget to that point where somebody
stepped up and said, well,let's, why don't we run stuff?
We have courts, why don't we runstuff on them publicly?
And so once that happened, Ithink that was good for our
tennis, because we do have a lotof 2-5s.
Now we have more of those 2-5sfrom a few years ago who've

(51:02):
bumped up to 3-0 and 3-0 to 3-5.
And another two or three yearsyou're gonna have a lot of guys
that are gonna get bumped up to4-0 and 4-5.
So I think, yeah, I think inthe next year, couple of years,
that conversation will be alittle different.
I think there will be aresurgence of 4-5, because about
five or six years ago I think,we used to have more 4-5s in

(51:22):
town, like I had people that Iwould call up to hit and
practice.
But now the only other people Ican think if I were to go
practice my own game, I'd haveto call another coach and be
like hey, man, you wanna go hit?
And most of the time they'relike no, I've been on the court
six hours a day, yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
That's interesting.
So you said that public tenniskinda came on the scene recently
.
What was that like and whatyear was that?

Speaker 2 (51:46):
I was back at Ridge Point still, so probably 2018,
it was when, I know y'all, patMalone.
Pat Malone was the guy thatkinda started initially with NEA
tennis and now Marco's takingit up and he's the main guy with
all the city tennis under hiscompetitive coaching stuff.
But when Pat came along, Ithink it was 2018 or so and he

(52:08):
started doing some after schoolstuff and so he got a bunch of
after school kids into it.
Then, once he got a bunch ofkids programs running, the next
step is okay, now let's get someof these parents involved.
These parents are seeing theirkids play and they wanna play,
and so I think he startedgetting that built up, started
getting the teams, and that waswhen I started to come along.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
Yeah, it's interesting because before I
started playing tennis, I had noeven idea that anyone played
tennis.
We've been members of the TrimGym for 15, 16 years and it's
just one of those things.
People walk over to that sidewith their tennis bags and
things, but it was just like aforeign world and now it's like
you can't look anywhere withoutseeing tennis.
So it's interesting that itreally hasn't been that long ago

(52:53):
, that it became more accessibleto people in town.
So Look, landing the plane hereon the tennis conversation.
If there are people out therethat want to become a tennis
coach, what is the quickest wayand how long it would it take?
What is the recommended roadmap that you'd give someone that
wants to coach tennis?

Speaker 2 (53:13):
It depends on what type of coaching they want to do
.
I think I've had a little bitharder time with this
conversation than I thoughtbecause my brain is switching
from.
The coaching I'm doing nowcompared to what I was doing is
a country club instructor.
If they're trying to do countryclub instruction, I would
recommend that they startpublicly, find some type of

(53:36):
public outlet, something thatthey can jump on board with and
work with small kids, becauseyou don't have to be like some
division one athlete to go workwith small kids and you don't
have it doesn't take the.
You don't have to necessarilybe a high-level player to have a
good eye and know what somebodyshould be doing.
You just have to be a goodcommunicator and recognize it.
And If they can do that, thenthey can build up from there and

(53:58):
it's okay, they're level.
If they have a good enoughlevel, they get better at the
rallies, they can rally withpeople, all this stuff.
You can work with juniors, youcan work with beginner adults,
and so, again, if you're doingall that publicly, through some
public outlet, that that wouldbe the way to go.
If you can find that and I knowmost tennis, I think, like in
this country is public.
So Jonesboro again has beenweird where we had three other

(54:20):
Country clubs and then we hadpublic.
Normally it's the other wayaround.
So once you get like a year ortwo of experience maybe you're
just working at a racket club orwhatever it is Then you could
start trying to find a positionat, say, a country club or an
academy and then if you could dothat's where, yeah, just being
able to document years ofexperience who you've worked

(54:41):
with, maybe have some clientrecommendations that they can
people that If, if you're tryingto get hired somewhere, they
can, they can call them and askthem.
So that's probably gonna happen.
And then that's where thosecertifications would be nice If
you beef them up, because if youdon't have that x-mata years it
as a place for recommendation,then they can look at your, your
certifications.

(55:02):
But yeah, I would definitelyrecommend a little bit, go
public.
You can always work with kidsand then you build up from there
.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Absolutely.
It's been very interestinglearning some a little bit more
about you as a player versus acoach.
Still strive to see you playone day.
I get somebody.
I think that would be cool tosee.
But before we end here, I wantto talk a little bit about your
hiking trip.
So what are some of the biggesttakeaways you've had offer From

(55:29):
this last trip that you went on?
Oh, boy.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
The recent trip was a lot of miles in a shorter
amount of time and Very, verymuch a solo adventure.
I did the continental dividetrails 2700 miles give or take
50 to 100, and I did it in lesstechnically, less than four
months and so that averaged 24miles a day and Doing that met.

(55:56):
I pretty much wasn't gonna beable to hike with anybody,
because anybody I'm seeing I'meither catching up to him and so
I'm gonna pass him and I'm notable to slow down.
Some of the big takeaways wasjust my own Personal reflections
.
I had a lot of time to myselfto think about where I'm at in
life.
Do I like that?
Am I happy?
A lot of that stuff, reallylearning what I can push myself

(56:17):
through again, hiking that manymiles a day Was definitely
something that it pushed me tomy limits and it made me realize
, man, I really can't dowhatever I put my mind to.
I'm trying to push this big day.
Let's do it.
I can do it when I get backhome.
Now it's man, the ceiling is sohigh now I'm just like I can do
whatever now and I Random goldmine.

(56:38):
I would like to go do a hundredmile race, since I used to
never think I could do it, butI've done back-to-back days on
trail where I'm doing 35 miles aday at the pace that I would
Technically need to do a hundredmiler.
So you learn stuff like thatand, yeah, it's been takeaways,
definitely.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Just yeah, self-reflection, realizing what
I can do and did you do anyjournaling or anything other
than like the Facebook updatesor randomly would see you have
an update?

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Yeah, I've always been.
So I hiked last year as welland Appalachian Trail and I
didn't post much.
I made me did the 10 post andthat was like an Instagram
Facebook thing and I didn'treally journal.
And this year Wasn't thatdifferent I except for I did
update a little bit more, I wasposting more and for me that was
my documentation.

(57:27):
I did take a lot of photos anda Lot of those photos I haven't
even posted.
I probably won't post, but forme I can look back and as soon
as I see a photo it could be arandom tree next to a random
bench, but for me that's my Ilike and look at that go.
Oh, I remember that day, Iremember what I was doing, I
remember where I was at, who Iwas with, and so I think that's
my documentation, was definitelyphotos.

(57:48):
And Next year I got anothertrip.
I'm gonna try to do a littlebit different.
Take on that.
I'm gonna try to document morewith film and Go that route,
because for me, photos and film,audio, just talking about my
trip I want, I need to do thatmore.
That's a better way to documentfor me.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Absolutely.
I know everybody's wonderingthat and if they're not, I'm
wondering how much did thiswhole adventure cost you a?

Speaker 2 (58:16):
Little bit.
So it's typically, they say,budget $2 a mile.
I think that's been the rule ofthumb Over the last five or six
years, but I think in the lasttwo or three years it's probably
changed.
I think it's more like $3 amile.
This trip was almost 3000 miles, so my budget was about 9,000
and that's for Everything.

(58:38):
So that's my on trip or ontrail expenses of paying for
food, paying for accommodationif I'm staying in a place which
was very rare but if I'm stayingsomewhere, if I have to get a
ride somewhere, that pace, thatgoes into that.
And Then also that covers theexpenses of traveling to get to
the start, to travel to get home.
And then it also covers mybills.

(58:59):
My phone bills I pay for likean insurance when I'm out there.
Your home bills don't stop whenyou go out.
So I think for me $3 a milekind of Was the budget and that
worked out.
It's been pretty good.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
What did your supplies look like.
Were you hiking with a tin onyour back?
What did you bring, oh?

Speaker 2 (59:20):
Only the bare necessities I have.
I'm pretty extreme even forwhat I do in that category.
My pack is small.
My my gear options are verylimited.
I have exactly what I need andthat is I want to be warm at
night when I sleep, and dry.
So I have a type of shelterwhich is more of a tarp, goes
over my head and keeps the rainoff.

Speaker 1 (59:41):
I'm good.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
I sleep in a it's called a bivvy sack.
It's like a small Tube,singular, almost like a coffin,
but it's to keep your bag fromgetting wet or dry or wet or
like buggy or anything like that, and I sleep in there.
So I have a warm sleeping bag,because you got to be warm.
That's really important.
So that's your shelter, warmth.
And then you have a pad thatyou want to sleep on, because if

(01:00:03):
you're just sleeping directlyon the ground, that gets cold
and painful.
So pad, shelter, for sure.
The backpack it goes in.
And then for food.
This might sound gross to a lotof people, but I don't cook any
food, but I will rehydratecertain foods.
So ramen noodles, instant oats,couscous, stuff like that.
I'll have a jar and I just putit in there, pour the water that

(01:00:25):
I would if it was, say, boilingwater, but instead it's just
regular water and then after 30minutes or an hour it's hydrated
.
You don't have to cook it, atleast as long as it's instant
and then just Tastes like leftout room temperature stuff on
your on trail.
Food is fuel, and so I wentvery I went minimal there.
Instead of carrying a wholecook system, you carry a water
filter.
That's really important.

(01:00:46):
I know a lot of people who gotsick with whether it's parasites
or bacteria and stuff like thatfrom untreated water, and for
me that's extremely importantbecause I can't afford amongst
these extreme hikes, but I can'tafford physically to Damage my
body like that.
I need my body to stay healthy,at least for a long time.
Because I'm coaching tennis, Idon't take any unnecessary risk

(01:01:08):
of Climbing up things, climbingdown things.
If I can avoid it, I don't,even if I break my ankle, that
could Take me out of thebusiness for a while.
Yeah, when I bring stuff,that's what I make sure to bring
is stuff that keeps me safe,warm and Dry, and that's about
it.
So my whole pack weight, if youtook food and water out, was

(01:01:28):
only about Six and a half poundson the Appalachian trail, which
is crazy for most people.
Most people are like 12 to 15to 20 pounds of gear.
And then this trip this year Iwas, yeah, just about nine
pounds and that's just extrawarmth, but very minimal.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
So how did you even get into Doing things like this?
I've got a lot of things thatare on my bucket list, but I
don't think that's one of them,and now it might be.
But I'm just curious how You'vebeen a tennis coach.
You're like you know what?
I want to go walk 2500 miles.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
It was definitely a building building up type thing
where I had I had beeninterested in the outdoors since
I was little, always like beingoutside and everything like
that.
We went camping a little bit asa family.
And then, I think when I was 17mean a couple people we started
driving out to NorthwestArkansas and doing waterfalls
and this and that and I gothooked on that.

(01:02:24):
I just I loved it andappreciated it so much and I
wanted to be out in that momentin those places.
And then when I startedcoaching tennis, some of the pro
cons of that with your workschedule is that you don't work
maybe as many hours as mostpeople do per week, but the con
is your hours tend to be whenother people aren't working.

(01:02:45):
You're working, so that can beannoying, but on the weekend or,
say, friday, I schedule my ownhours.
So if I didn't want to work, ifI could schedule all my stuff
Monday through Thursday, I hadthree-day weekends a lot, maybe
once or twice a week or month,and so I would use that time to
go backpack and my job andflexibility there allowed me to

(01:03:07):
do that.
And then I Don't know as far asdoing.
And then the transition to thebig hike was I just started
getting.
I'm obsessed with gear, nomatter what I'm doing.
I researched gear, found outabout these long hikes and I
thought, man, they can do it, Ican do it.
Maybe that's inspiration fromrandom movies or whatever.
And I realized if I'm gonna doit, I have to Put my life on

(01:03:30):
hold.
I can't have a full-time job.
So I spent three or four yearssaving up my main part of my
budget and then I figuredBecause I have three years of
these hikes and I figured inbetween I could supplement with
some side work which kind ofwhat I'm doing now.
I'm just coaching in freelancecoaching.
This is what I've been tellingpeople, and when I'm done with
my hikes Maybe I'll go back tofull-time somewhere else, or

(01:03:52):
yeah, it was weird snowballed.
I got into the small stuff andthen just saw that it could be
bigger and thought why not?

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Absolutely, and one of the last things I want to
talk about is tell us a littlebit about the journey You're
gonna take on.
Is this next summer that you'regoing on?
Yeah, July.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
Yeah, mid-july I've got my last of the we call them
the triple crown of backpackingin the United States.
It's the Appalachian Trail, thePacific crush trail that I'm
doing next year, and then thetrail I did this year is the
continental divide trail, andthe reason I listed them in that
order is most people don't dothe continental divide trail I
did this year.
They wait for that last.
It's a little more extreme.

(01:04:26):
But next year the Pacific crushtrail is on the west coast.
It's a border to border, justlike I did this year, canada to
Mexico or vice versa, dependingon which direction you go.
And yeah, I'm gonna start July15th.
I'm actually gonna startAttempt to hike this trail with
a friend of mine who I met onthe Appalachian Trail.
So this trip will be the firsttime I set out with plans to

(01:04:48):
actually hike with somebody andwe have plans to try to do it
very fast.
We're just gonna push ourselvessee if we can do it within 90
to 100 days.
And yeah, it's gonna be aphysical push for sure.
But I'm gonna be in beautifulareas up in the Pacific
Northwest up, and you know, Igot Washington in Oregon, the
big old growth forest and stufflike that.
And then you get into NorthernCalifornia, sierra mountains, go

(01:05:11):
so Cal.
You got the desert and stufflike that and looking forward to
2600 miles for that one.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
Absolutely, austin.
I appreciate you taking thetime to share your tennis
journey with us, and then theother hobbies that you got going
on.
It's very interesting and Ifeel like I learned a lot in
both areas.
Is there anything else you wantto say to the, the listeners at
home before we let you go?

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
If there's something you want to do, get into it, go
all the way with it, becausewhether it's tennis, some other
outdoor hobby, we only have somuch time.
If you're getting into tennis,I think it's great.
It's lifelong sport makes youhealthier.
If you can play tennis, you cando anything.
But no matter what you do, yeah, just get on with it and do it
as much as you can, because weonly have so much time and I Try

(01:05:58):
to do a lot of hobbies.
I've got again my tenniscoaching and my hiking and play
a lot of disc golf and I got tryto post stuff on online if I
can just Austin MC on myInstagram, but yeah, it's about
it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
Austin.
I appreciate it.
We will put all of Austin'slinks in the show note and I'll
put the link to the otherpodcast episodes if you want to
hear a little bit more About hishiking journey.
But this has been anotherepisode of the clever angle
podcast.
Subscribe on Apple podcast andSpotify, wherever you get
podcasts, and until next time,peace.