Community Choice Aggregation at MCE - Jenna Tenney

Today we’re joined by Jenn Tenny, Communications Manager for the MCE (originally Marin Clean Energy), a relatively new kind of government organization called a CCA, which stands for Community Choice Aggregation. CCA’s allow individual consumers to choose where they get their electricity, even if it’s delivered over transmission lines that are owned by a single, monopoly utility company.

As a journalist and am MCE customer, Dina Rasor followed MCE's progress for many years, including writing an article about them in Truthout in 2014.

As MCE’s Communications Manager, Jenna works to share messages of MCE’s mission and achievements in the community through various public engagement and press opportunities. These initiatives include not only making renewable energy more available to consumers, but also providing assistance to individuals installing more efficient appliances such as heat pumps and LED lighting, as well as reducing power usage during peak demand hours through their 4 to 9 program.

Prior to her time with MCE, Jenna worked at the California Academy of Sciences and the Bronx Zoo as a public educator. Jenna has a B.S. in Marine Biology from the University of California at Santa Cruz and an M.A. in Climate and Society from Columbia University.

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Episode Transcript

Greg Williams (00:10):
Welcome to another episode of climate money
watchdog where we try to helpeveryday listeners understand
how the federal governmentspends money to mitigate climate
change and protect theenvironment. My name is Greg
Williams and I became interestedin waste, fraud and abuse and
government spending. When my cohost Dean eraser gave me my
first job at the project ongovernment oversight or Pogo a

(00:32):
long time ago. Dina founded thatorganization in 1980, and has
gone on to investigate and writeabout wasting government,
wasting government spending inmany different media, as well as
the courts here claiming moneywatchdog we're a private
nonprofit, nonpartisanorganization, which means that

(00:52):
we accept no advertisers orsponsors. And we depend entirely
on our listeners contributions.
Today, we're very fortunate tobe joined by Biogen attente,
communications manager for theMurrin Clean Energy
Organization, which is arelatively new kind of
government organization called aCCA, which stands for Community
Choice aggregation. CCA is allowindividual consumers to choose

(01:17):
where they get their electricityfrom, even if it's delivered
over transmission lines that areowned by a single, perhaps,
monopolistic utility company. Atmarine energies community, I'm
sorry as Marine. As Morin cleanenergies, communications
manager, general works to sharemessages of MCs mission and
achievements in the communitythrough various public

(01:40):
engagement and pressopportunities. Prior to her time
there, Jenna worked at theCalifornia Academy Academy of
Sciences and at the Bronx Zoo asa public educator. Jenna has a
BS in marine biology from UCSanta Cruz, and a Master of Arts
in climate and society fromColumbia University. Deena
you're an MCE customer andyou've written about CCs in the

(02:05):
past. Why don't you share someof these experiences with our
listeners before we get startedwith Jenna?

Dina Rasor (02:14):
Okay, yes, I when I interviewed the communications
person at MCE, eight years ago,it wasn't Jenna. She came in a
couple of years later, but theyhad just gotten started. I think
it was 2014 and they actuallygot started in 2010. And so it
was this you know, they were thefirst ones to to start up in the

(02:39):
state of California and I willlet Jenna explain the explain
the legislation and and thething behind it. But I lived in
I live in El Cerrito which asmarine clean energy and I guess
you just call yourselves MCE nowbecause you've got so your way

(02:59):
out of Marin County. As theybegan to expand, I'm sort of
startled at how fast theyexpanded. And now they have like
37 different counties or cities,communities and over a million
customers but so I'm so elseRita voted themselves in, I was

(03:21):
delighted, and we were I wasable to it was, it's amazing
when you look at your powerbill, and it's in the same bill
and pg&e pays for the electronsto go through the wire and M C.
E either buys or creates theelectricity. And so it's a it's

(03:44):
been a, I'm gonna be interestedin asking her some questions
about that. And then I want tothen short not too long. After
it first got started in 2010.
This was a this California hadpassed the law that allowed this
to happen. pg&e didn't like thisbecause you have to opt out of
the CCA or MC, you have to knowif you're, if you're a new

(04:08):
customer, and you want to staywith PG and a you have to tell
say you want to stay with PGD.
Otherwise you automatically goto MC and PG did not like that.
And so they put did aproposition 16 As we probably
get an idea that we do a lot ofpropositions in California and

(04:29):
it was backed by PG and E andthat was they were trying to put
in some poison pills that wouldnot allow the would not allow
the them to work. Well. You hadto get you know, you had to get
something like I forget now butyou had to get it. Maybe she can

(04:49):
pass it in but it was basicallythat you had had to have a
certain percentage of thecustomers vote to opt in and And
it was kind of it was written tobe a poison pill so that the CCS
didn't get going in California.
And I the thing that I like tobring up and this is something
that the climate people willpossibly really like, since you

(05:12):
have been there done that, pg&epaid $46 million to get this
proposition on the, on theballot. And this was about a
year, or a year or two beforerobot about the time MC was
starting 2010. And since then,Jenna will explain this more.

(05:38):
But since m is C E is considereda public organization, a public
organization, they weren'tallowed to lobby or raise money
or do anything about it. But abunch of environmentalists
raised $100,000. And they beatthem not by a little not by a

(05:58):
squeaker but by five or sixpoints. And so I always I love
to tell that kind of David andGoliath story. But anyway, pg&e
Since then, I guess, has beenactually realizing that they
accepted their lot, and thatthey have to deal with these
CTAs, which are kind ofexploding. And I also wrote an

(06:21):
article about MC for truth outand then I wrote an article
later, about five other statesthat had started this and that
was eight years ago. And I'mjust really startled on how
successful it's been. Now thatsaid, I'm gonna let Janice do
the talking. She knows a lotmore about it. And I really
appreciate her being here. Canyou explain to our listeners,

(06:44):
how MCE got started, how muchit's grown over the past 12
years. And the law behind thegetting it started?

Jenna Tenney (06:53):
Yeah, of course.
Thank you for having me. So MCEstarted really way back in the
late 90s, early 2000s. And therewas this movement for advocates
around the state really saying,We know that climate change is a

(07:14):
problem. And we want to takeaction now. And California as we
know at that time was goingthrough the energy crisis. And
there were had been rollingbrownouts and blackouts, and the
state had attempted toderegulate to create more
diversity in the market. But theway that it was done sort of

(07:34):
just didn't really work out. Andso there was this alternative
model, which allowed for ahighly regulated market, but
with more competition in it. Andthat was really the impetus for
Community Choice in California,Massachusetts, and Ohio had
already done this. And it hadbeen working pretty well for
them for several years at thatpoint, and California said, Hey,

(07:57):
maybe maybe we can do this too.
And we can get more renewableenergy. So there was a really
big push from advocates aroundthe state to make this possible
in California, because at thetime it wasn't. And in 2002,
legislation was passed AssemblyBill 117. That allowed for

(08:18):
Community Choice to exists. Itallowed for local governments to
work together to create a jointpowers authority, which is the
structure most often used forwater districts and waste
districts. And these cities,counties and towns can pool
their resources to create a newentity that can better serve

(08:38):
those communities in the case ofMCE and Community Choice
aggregation that was to provideelectricity. There were other
programs that tried to getstarted before MCE, and you
describe some of the David andGoliath story behind that. And
the difficulty is really ofgetting started. And MCE

(09:00):
eventually was able to breakthrough that. And in 2008, we
formed our agency and in 2010,we started serving customers.
And at that time we wereserving, I think we launched to
about 12,000 customers in theCounty of Marin, very, very
small 12,000 customer accountsand today we're now serving
approximately 580,000 customeraccounts are around 1.5 million

(09:23):
people in 37 communities, all ofMarin County, all of Napa
County, most of Contra CostaCounty, 15 of the 20
jurisdictions there and abouthalf of the communities in
Solano County as well. So it'sbeen a wonderful opportunity.
I've been with MCE about sixyears now and been able to help
a lot of those communities makethe decision to join MCE and

(09:47):
have access to a localelectricity provider who is
governed by those local electedofficials from those communities
we serve and really invest intoour customers and creating a
pathway towards a cleaner energyfuture. And that's, that's
really what we're all about ismaking sure that everyone has

(10:09):
equitable access to renewableenergy and clean energy
technologies that are going toimprove their quality of life
and fight climate change alongthe way.

Dina Rasor (10:20):
Okay, um, what you know, PG and E's been around I
think, was 1905. They've prettymuch a monopoly on it, large
areas of the California is LAhas Edison and stuff, but a
large mount since 1905. And thenso that was a really entrenched

(10:41):
bureaucracy that mean, they ownall the lines, and they
obviously own the power, ownpower plants and all this kind
of stuff to make theelectricity. So why How did MCE
become better at approving orproducing or buying renewable
energy? Because I should explainyou've got this thing where you
have light green, where there'sonly a 50% renewable, but you

(11:02):
have deep green, which is 100%.
Renewable and wanted to. And I'mjust when I first interviewed
him eight years ago, when I didthe article, I said, Where are
you getting all this energy? Imean, this is before the whole
Solar thing and what reallyworked or anything else. And at

(11:23):
the time, I was told, Well, thatwas the it was the wind power
and Washington and Oregon, whichthey had started up and had so
much extra. But now I see thatyou say that most of it comes
from California. So how did youget get? How did the small
organization who now have, youknow, a million and a half
customers make an energy,especially renewable energy

(11:47):
cheaper, and better and fasterthan then pg&e?

Jenna Tenney (11:54):
Yeah, that's a that's a great question. So when
we first launched, it was thethe folks of the County of Marin
and the other jurisdictions hadgone to pg&e and said, Hey, we
really want more renewableenergy, can you can you give
that to us? And pg&e said, No,unfortunately, we can't give you
a special higher renewableenergy content. And so they were

(12:16):
like, alright, well, we're gonnawe're gonna do it ourselves
then. So that was how MCEspecifically got started. And at
the time, when we launched, Ithink we were providing around
27% renewable electricity, andpg&e was providing around 12. So
pretty, pretty big jump. At thetime, we had kind of a difficult

(12:38):
time finding suppliers who werewilling to work with us. We were
small, we were unknown, thefirst in California, but we were
able to find someone who wouldwork with us and get that
renewable power. As time hasgone on, we have employed a
number of different strategiesto source that power. And yeah,
the bulk of it is now Californiaand state. And we also for our

(13:01):
light green service option,which has been 60%. Renewable
since 2017. We do have a largeportion of large hydro resources
in there from the PacificNorthwest. So it's only 60%
renewable, but it's 90%greenhouse gas free. So that's
that's pretty neat to

Greg Williams (13:19):
find. Let me clarify a point there. You're
you're saying you're notcategorizing hydro as renewal.

Jenna Tenney (13:25):
In the state of California, large hydro electric
resources are not consideredrenewable. small hydro is so
under 20 megawatts, but anythingabove that is considered carbon
free are a greenhouse gas free,but it's not renewable. Gotcha.
Yeah. So we have, as the numberof CCS have grown, we've had

(13:49):
some additional opportunities topartner with other CCA. So that
has created some reallyinteresting opportunities
recently. But we have what iscalled our feed in tariff
program. And that program offersincentivize rates for
development of renewableprojects in MCE service area. So

(14:12):
we have about 48, a little bitover megawatts of renewable
energy in our service area thatwe've built through that
program. And those projects haveprevailing wage requirements,
local higher requirements 50%,local higher, and they now also
have pollinator friendly groundcover requirements. So there's
an ecosystem benefit there aswell. So that's one of the ways

(14:34):
that we have added renewableenergy. We have also, you know,
there's been a really big marketfor renewable energy as more CCS
have come online, and so there'sbeen more and more developers
who are seeing ccaas as a greatopportunity for them to build
and sell those resources. Andwhen what we're seeing now is

(14:56):
more and more customers aredeparting pg&e service And the
other investor owned utilities.
And so when those customersswitch over to a Community
Choice Program, there's moredemand for renewable energy. And
those contracts are beingentered into at it sort of in a
position where pg&e doesn't needto do that anymore. They're not
buying a whole lot of newadditional resources, because

(15:18):
those customers are departingfor CCS. So basically, when we
got started, we were able tofind those renewable energy
resources at lower prices, andkind of lock those in. And so
we've been able to have thatconsistent access to renewable
energy. And then there's also anew market. So last year, MCE,

(15:39):
and two other CCA partners worktogether. And we launched the
first California Green Climatebonds, where we did a municipal
prepay bond structure toactually prepay contracts for
renewable energies, whichsignificantly lowered the cost

(15:59):
of those contracts for ourcustomers, because we're able to
pay them, you know, 10 years inadvance. And so that's a totally
brand new financing model. It'sbeen used in the US for a really
long time, but primarily fornatural gas. So being able to
use it for renewable energy tolower the prices and increase
access is, is really unique and

Dina Rasor (16:22):
special. And in your you've got the light green, and
the dark green, and I rememberwhen I remember is that dark
green was five, about $5 more amonth to do. But I'm wondering
now, if that's kind of evenitself out. And also what what
percentages of our solar? And doyou know how much percentage is

(16:44):
of it? Our Solar by being onbusinesses or people's roofs
like mine? Yeah. And also youalso what I what I liked about
it when I was looking into thesolar is that you guys pay me
paid better. And PG needed butjust give you credits, and MC

(17:04):
MCE actually, you know, givesyou money. And so it was well
there. And I just want to knowif that's the same. By the way,
I really have to bring this in,because this is sort of an
amazing thing. The reason thatpeople could even start thinking
about solar in the late 1970swas the at that time Governor

(17:25):
Jerry Brown, the firt first termof Jerry Brown, when he was
young, the young Jerry Brown,really ticked off a lot of
people, but he said if you putsolar panels into your house,
the utilities have to buy it,they have to buy it. And that
was that really caused anenormous thing. And I was in
college, and there's but thenwhen Jerry Brown, the older

(17:49):
Jerry Brown when he had a secondhis second term, many years
later he he expanded that andworked on that and you know, now
I'm old and he was old. He butit's an amazing thing that that
started when I was in collegethat in the ENERGY STAR things.

(18:11):
So California was really farahead. And that's why people say
was California too much solar isbecause you have all the sun and
well no, it's because since thelate 1970s It's been subsidized
that the pg&e had to buy itthough boy did they not like
that, but they had to buy it. Soeverybody started putting solar
panels up. But what percentagenow is solar versus wind versus

(18:36):
what ever?

Jenna Tenney (18:38):
Yeah, so our we have our light green option
which is 60% renewable and thenour deep green option which is
100% renewable and we actuallyhave a third service option
called Local Sol and thedifference really between deep
green and local Sol is that deepgreen is 50% solar and 50% wind
and local Sol is all locallysourced solar power from a farm

(19:05):
up in Novato. So we give ourcustomers essentially those
three different options and deepgreen is still so the way that
it works is it's one penny perkilowatt hour more so the
average customer the the stat onthat is 500 kilowatt hours a
month so that would be an extra$5 If you're someone whose bill

(19:25):
is is less than that you'll payless if if it's if it's more
than you'll pay more. But thathas really paid for actually
half of the premium from fromthat so if you're if you're
someone who is the average rightyou pay $5 $2.50 of that has
gone towards MCs local renewableprojects and programs fund which

(19:46):
has helped pay for things likeour Evie charging infrastructure
programs, our Evie rebates, ourlow income solar, and a lot of
that is approximately $800,000from that Mind went to the
startup costs for a project thatwe built in the city of
Richmond. So our deep greencustomers are paying for

(20:09):
renewable energy, but they'realso paying for new renewable
energy projects and newinfrastructure investments in
within MCE service area. So it'sa really cool program in that
way.

Dina Rasor (20:23):
Okay, so are you?
Are you still looking to expandinto other communities? Or at
one point when I read it? Andthey said, Well, we're not going
to get that big. But it it didit? Obviously the demand was
there. You know, are there otherlocalities are on the fringes of
your edge of your service thatare thinking about it?

Jenna Tenney (20:48):
Um, yeah, so we are pretty much planning to stay
within our four countyfootprint. So there's a handful
of communities in Contra Costaand a handful in Solano that are
still have the potential to joinMCE if they were interested. So
we have had some conversationswith those jurisdictions. And we

(21:09):
really try to encourage gettinga good understanding of of how
MCE works and what we do and thevalue that we bring into the
community and have the CityCouncil really feel secure in
the decision to move forward. Sothose jurisdictions haven't made
any decisions yet. But we're,we're always open to to working

(21:30):
with them. There are now 23,maybe 24 CPAs, across
California. So we actually arelucky to kind of be surrounded
by a lot of other programs thatare serving their communities.
And that's really kind of thebenefit of Community Choice
programs is that you do have asmaller footprint than pg&e,

(21:52):
which covers, you know, a hugeportion of the state. We're able
to develop programs that arereally unique and specific to
those communities that we serve.
So no plans right now forexpansion but we're we're pretty
much planning to stay with thatour for county service area at
this point.

Dina Rasor (22:09):
So just to reiterate, so people understand
is basically you make theelectricity and pg&e delivers it
so PGA because become more andmore a delivery system on there.
I I live in El Cerritos the gridis horrible. It looks like third
world country wiring. I mean, itreally is bad. But I just

(22:31):
wondered, I know that thecustomer pays pays pg&e for the
use of their lines. But do youguys have to pay pg&e at all to
use the lines?

Jenna Tenney (22:44):
We don't. So the lines basically, I always sort
of described the electric gridas a bathtub, right? So all of
the little power sources arespigots feeding into the
bathtub, they're feeding waterin and when you turn on a clean
water spigot, it means there'sless room in the bathtub for
dirty water to be in there.
Right? So you have to let someof that dirty water go out. So

(23:04):
pg&e really they're they'remaintaining the bathtub, they're
making sure the water is gonnaget wherever it needs to go. And
MCE makes sure that their andour partners our sister agencies
are making sure that clean wateris coming into the bathtub and
it makes all of the water in thebathtub cleaner overall. So
that's kind of how we we talkabout clean energy but it the
the way that everyone is paidfor their services is the same

(23:29):
way that they were before. Butinstead of paying pg&e for the
the actual generation of theelectricity, the source of it,
you're paying MCE instead.

Dina Rasor (23:41):
So the in the customer base, you have 1.5
million or you said half amillion households. How many
people are left in yourdistrict? That's that opted out
for pg&e. What percentage do youknow,

Jenna Tenney (23:55):
our overall enrollment percentage is around
87%. So

Dina Rasor (24:01):
wow, that's bigger than I thought.

Jenna Tenney (24:03):
Yeah, that's that's definitely the benefit of
having an opt out program. We wedo really extensive messaging to
communities when we enroll them.
And we continue to do that. Sowhen a new community joins, we
send four mailers out to them.
We put advertising into thelocal newspapers, radio, we

(24:27):
often do billboards and thingslike transit, you know, bus
stops and stuff like that. Sothat folks are really hearing
about it. We work with the CityCouncil, town council or county
board of supervisors dependingon what the jurisdiction is. And
we also work really closely withlocal community organizations.
So we you know, Rotary clubs orsenior centers or schools we

(24:47):
want them to know about MC E andknow what we're providing and be
able to make the decision ifthey if they don't want to go
with MC if they want to remainwith pg&e. So we our opt out
rate is is a little bit higherthan some of the other ccaas.
We've been doing this thelongest. And so folks are pretty
familiar with with who we are atthis point. But we were very

(25:11):
happy with that. 87%. And in ournewer communities where
Community Choice is a little bitbetter understood, it's closer
to a 90% enrollment rate.

Dina Rasor (25:21):
Okay, and, and so the looked at my questions, and
then forgot what I was gonnaask. But anyway, I just I wanted
to talk about also what Ithought was one of the things
that you already talked aboutthis already is you don't just

(25:43):
buy and you know, encouragepeople to put solar panels, you
actually have these programs.
And I saw one of the programs,which I'm incredibly impressed
with, and don't know why wedon't do this over the whole
state of California. And that isyou start putting canopies over
parking lots, where you park thecars. And so anybody who's lived
in California knows that whenyou get into a car in the middle

(26:06):
of the summer, and you gotshorts on you're gonna get your
mitts, it's that hot. Andbecause the sun is so intense
here, but it actually cools thecars down so they don't have to
use as much fuel. It has thesolar panels on top. And then it
has Evie charging at the ateither end, the one I saw was

(26:27):
either end so that people cancome and charge their cars. How
have you done? I just saw one ofyour programs, what have you
done that kind of thing more?
And what else are you doing withbusinesses and other things with
your own money to try togenerate more solar?

Jenna Tenney (26:50):
Yeah, so our feed in tariff program is really the
primary primary pathway forthose local renewable projects.
Solar carports are a great wayto get more renewable energy and
you can if the if the project islarge enough, you can sell it to
MCE those those projects arewhat we call urban infill and

(27:13):
they're great because they'renot taking arable land and
putting solar panels on it rightit's space that as you as you
mentioned, we're already puttingcars there. Right my husband is
a big believer in leather seatsbut I have spent my whole life
in California I believe in clothand I think I think those the
solar carports are great for avariety of reasons and yeah, so

(27:35):
our our San Rafael location hasa solar carport structure that
also has 10 Evie charging portsunderneath it and so we are able
to charge during the day with100% solar power coming straight
from those panels so when youplug in your your Eevee you're
getting 100% clean power and ourEvie charging infrastructure

(27:59):
program is offers rebates forfor evey charging at workplaces
and multifamily properties sothat we can really help increase
the availability of EB chargingfor rooftop solar. Other than
the feed in tariff program. Youknow, you mentioned the payment

(28:21):
structure for that earlier we dopay twice the wholesale rate
which is twice what pg&e pays onany excess solar generation. The
the plan has changed a littlebit we now in California have
such a high amount of rooftopsolar that MCs focus has shifted
a little bit more towards theEvie charging component and also

(28:44):
battery storage. It's a reallyimportant component for
California and the electricitygrid.

Dina Rasor (28:52):
Okay, what other kinds of programs have you done
outside of the solar? What haveyou done any any other programs
where you're generating your ownelectricity or is it mainly
mainly solar not, I assume notwind?

Jenna Tenney (29:08):
Not not locally, locally, it's mainly been solar.
And we earlier this year justsigned our first contract for a
local solar plus storageproject. Wind is a little bit
trickier. Just it does requiregenerally a lot of land and some
some folks don't really like tohave wind in their area. So a

(29:29):
lot of our wind comes from areasthat are kind of farther out. As
as we all know, the Bay Area'svery populated very, very home
heavy. So in our service area,it's been a lot of urban infill
and solar projects like that.
But in terms of the otherprojects or the other programs
that we offer, we have our Eeveecharging infrastructure rebates

(29:49):
we have low low income vehiclerebates, EB rebates for the cars
themselves. We have operated alow income solar program for a
number of years, that programjust recently closed. During
COVID, we offered a billdiscount program for residents
and then a kind of differenttiers for residents. And then

(30:13):
also small businesses as wellthat qualified, we have a whole
suite of energy efficiencyprograms. And one of our like,
cool new, very exciting programsis we're working with a number
of organizations out inRichmond, to get a virtual power
plant going, working with homesthat need to install new energy

(30:37):
efficiency upgrades, anddistributed energy resources. So
things like solarelectrification of appliances,
and be able to use all of thatto support grid health. I think
most folks are familiar with theflex alerts we had about a week
ago, where we were asking peopleto conserve energy. The idea

(31:00):
there is we have a set ofresources in a community that
can be aggregated and turned onor off to help support
electricity needs during thingslike extreme heat events or
other things like that. So thatwas super high level, but we
have a whole variety of programsthat we're trying to reach

(31:21):
people with really what whatthey ultimately need.

Dina Rasor (31:25):
So the people who aren't in California, probably
might have read about anewspaper, but we had this heat
dome over us, you know, similarto the the freeze that Texas
had, you know, it's justsomething that just puts the
strain on the grid. And, youknow, the Gavin Newsom at all
got on there and said, Hey,everybody, can you not use

(31:48):
electricity as much between fourand nine, otherwise we're going
to have to might have somebrownouts or blackouts. And I
think everybody was prettyamazed. I don't think I was
because, you know, especially inNorthern California, but the
state just dropped, you know, itwas amazing to look at the chart
after that was done and fouro'clock came along, and people

(32:09):
just got off their electricity.
I mean, they stopped washingtheir clothes, using their dryer
and all that kind of stuff. Andit actually dipped, and there
was no emergency. I mean, ithad, you know, resolved itself
the next day. Everybody's like,how did that happen? People in
Texas are like, how did thathappen? Well, because we're all
we all knew that if we all did alittle bit on our part that

(32:31):
everybody else would benefit.
And I think that's something Ifeel when we do that with water,
too. And I think that that's oneof the reasons I like living in
California. We at least try.

Jenna Tenney (32:46):
Yes. Pretty, pretty spectacular to see that
especially we're HOTTEST. Yeah,we you say the thought is
Heatwave, I think I think wealways hope, right. And we have
seen with Flex alerts inprevious years that people have
really stepped up. And this yearwas just really unique. And

(33:06):
that, you know, we broke 1000Heat waves across the western
heatwave records across theWestern US. So this was really
sort of an above and beyondsituation. And California,
really, everybody stepped up.
And that was really awesome tosee.

Dina Rasor (33:21):
Of course, we in the Bay Area with our fog, the
hotter it gets inland, the morethe fog hangs to the coast. And
so we've had the coolestsummers, except for one a couple
of days because Sacramento's at112 or 117, some ridiculous
thing, and it pulls the plug in.
So it was actually a cool summerfor us. Okay, so are you
planning to ask the State ofCalifornia federal government

(33:46):
for new climate money grants,expand your work, you know, if
so, what kind of grants and thatkind of thing and what what do
you think, you know, there'sthis, obviously, this new pot,
two new pots of money from theinfrastructure bill and from the
inflation Reduction Act, thatit's going to put a more
environmental money in than it'sever been before. And that's of

(34:10):
course, one of the reasons westarted this conversation
because I have my I watched thePentagon waste a lot of money.
And I just know that when youhave a lot of money shoved in
someplace fast, there's there'sfraud. But are you guys planning
to do get government or state,federal government or state
grants?

Jenna Tenney (34:30):
Yes, I know our team is still evaluating
everything that comes along withthat and they're still really
deciding, you know, federalgovernment is still deciding
where all of that money is gonnago. But for MCE, our priorities
right now are battery storage.
It's a really vital component ofgetting us to 100% clean energy
and helping alleviate thoseconcerns with grid outages. So

(34:53):
that's that's a really big onefor us. Electric vehicles as
well with Gov Newsom mandatesfor EVs. We were it's really
important that we help meetthose demands both for vehicles
but also for the Evie charging,because the charging is really
one of the biggest barriers thatthat range anxiety and what am I

(35:14):
next going to hit a chargingstation? And how do I handle
that. So that's something that'sreally important to us. And
we're also looking at ways tocontinue to support to support
customer equity, right. So forus, we have a Healthy Homes
program that we've been runningfor a while. And it is really a

(35:34):
holistic approach to energyefficiency, recognizing that
current energy efficiencyprograms, maybe don't take into
account some other things thatwould really improve the quality
of life for folks. So example,if you're going into someone's
home, and you're upgrading lightfixtures or water fixtures,
maybe you're doing, you know, aheat pump installation to

(35:57):
replace an outdated heating andcooling system. There may be
other small things, maybe theyneed some pest management, maybe
it's someone who could use awheelchair ramp or there's, you
know, some other kind of smallerthings that are health and
safety upgrades in the home. Andthat's really what that program
looked at is integrating all ofthese solutions in a way that's

(36:17):
going to going to really improvethe quality of life for these
folks. So we would love tocontinue to expand that program,
especially in some of ourunderserved communities where
the housing stock really hasn'tseen the attention that it that
it needs to have seen. And thenlastly, we are really exploring
innovative technologies. Imentioned our virtual power
plant earlier. And this is asmall test project in Richmond,

(36:38):
but we'd love to see that growacross our service area, and
also green hydrogen. So greenhydrogen is hydrogen fuel that
is made using renewableresources, most often that
solar. And California now atthis point has so much solar in
the middle of the day that'sbeing put onto the grid that

(36:58):
they're curtailing. And greenhydrogen is a great resource for
storage for that excess solarenergy, and can be used to
generate electricity or can beshifted into fuel for
transportation. So we would liketo see all of those applications
come through. And as we'retransitioning to zero emission

(37:19):
vehicles, looking at ways tobulk up the access to hydrogen
fuel as well for that as aresource. So those are kind of
our current priorities. Butwe're seeing us just still
waiting to see how things shakeout in terms of funding,

Dina Rasor (37:36):
you're looking at what the federal government's
putting out there, becausethey're really, you know, send
it out, please take their money,take our money, which is, which
is great. If it's, if it's done.
Well, I was wondering aboutthat. The other one question I
have that popped up that I had,for us. One of the big problems
in a place like Richmond is thatpeople who live in apartment

(37:59):
buildings or whatever one thatthe they don't, the renters
don't get any advantage ofhaving solar, on the roof and
whatever. And the landlord does,but the other part of it is, is
that one of the things that'skind of a environmental justice
problem in getting people wholive in, especially low income

(38:21):
areas of apartments, is beingable to find a place where you
can charge your car overnight.
You know, it's not like my housethat can pull in the driveway,
you know, you can install it inthe garage, but trying to find
out how to get it so that thereare charging stations for people
who live in rental houses,because it's really going to

(38:42):
become one of the major ways youfeel do your cars, it's easier
to plug it in overnight. So haveyou been working on any programs
like that?

Jenna Tenney (38:52):
Yeah. So our multifamily energy efficiency
program has is our longestrunning energy efficiency
program that's been operatingsince 2013. And we definitely
deal with what you'redescribing, which is called the
split incentive issue, rightwhere the landlords aren't going
to see the benefits of in Unitupgrades, right, the tenants are

(39:14):
but the landlords are paying forthose upgrades, or vice versa,
the landlord is maybe going toraise rents so that they can
install solar, which is notgoing to benefit the tenants
necessarily, it might benefitthe landlord. And so we've been
we've been working withmultifamily properties to figure
out how we can bridge that gap.
And one of the ways that we dothat with our energy efficiency
program is we provide directinstall services to units when

(39:36):
we are doing common areaupgrades for multifamily
properties. So you're kind ofgetting to do both. And we're
offering those direct installincentives for those are those
services are free. So that's aprogram we've been running a
long time and I want to get tothe Eevee charging but I see
that Greg as

Greg Williams (39:55):
well. Well, I guess before we move on, I want
to better understand What thesedirect install arrangements are?
I would have thought thatproducing or installing
additional power sources into amultifamily dwelling is not at
all simple. So are you talkingabout additional electrical

(40:19):
fields perhaps coming fromrooftop solar? Or are these
battery installations? What sortof direct installations are you
doing?

Jenna Tenney (40:27):
Yeah, so direct install services primarily
include easy and energyefficiency upgrades. So they
include transition to LED lightbulbs, low flow water fixtures,
looking at if there's weatherstripping upgrades that can be
done pretty small, easy toinstall upgrades. But we do have
a program our low incomefamilies and tenants program

(40:50):
that took that a step furtherand has been installing heat
pump water and space heating aswell. And so we come into the
units and we transition thoseand the incentives are going to
help pay for the heat pump waterand space heaters. And we have
actually seen through that, thatprogram that the customer is,

(41:11):
even though most often you'retransitioning their water
heating and space heating fromgas to electric, right, so
you're essentially increasingtheir electric bill. They've
still saved money, they've seenabout an average of $172 Savings
a year. And they're getting amuch better quality product for

(41:31):
water and space heating whendoing that. So that's that's
kind of what we've looked at forthose programs. But in terms of
the Evie charging, as well, Imentioned earlier, our Evie
charging infrastructure programthat provides up to $3,500 per
port for evey charging stations,in workplaces and multifamily

(41:57):
properties. So you mentioned youknow, if you're someone who
lives in an apartment, you know,probably don't have a garage,
right that you can pull up toand, and plug in. And that could
be folks who are renting. But itcould also be folks who live in
an HOA or who live in a condowho don't necessarily have the
capacity, maybe they're theyhave open parking, so they may
have a designated parking space,but they don't have the ability

(42:18):
to install their own Eb, youknow, charging station. So that
is why we have focused onworkplace and multifamily
because studies have shown thatwhen you install Evie charging
at a workplace, the employeesare six times more likely to
drive in an Eevee. And inmultifamily properties, that's

(42:39):
really where that where that gapis, as you described earlier
that folks aren't going to getan Eevee if they can't go home
and charge it. And so havingthat availability and
multifamily properties is areally important component of
that.

Dina Rasor (42:53):
Okay, I didn't like that. One, I just thought of
another way off way over myoutline because I just there's
so many things. But when someonewhen one of the problems that I
saw when I first when they firsttalked about Evie charging, and
we're going to put the 500,000in the head of the government
grants and everything. I waslike, why don't you just put

(43:16):
them in individual independentgas stations and start replacing
pumps with Evie charging. Andone of the things that people
said to me was that the a lot ofthese smaller strip malls and
things like that paint don'thave the grid to take on that

(43:37):
kind of you know, there waswe're trying to electrify
everything and whatever. Anddown in El Sarita Plaza Tesla
has put up, I think for all theTesla drivers, but that's
because that's a big plaza Mall.
And they have they have thegrid, but I've been told that
one of the limitations of tryingto go and put things at charging
or extra solar and things likethis or get everybody to change

(44:00):
their, you know, this changefrom gas to electricity is that
the grid is is not built forthat. And that, of course takes
us back to our friend PGD. Um,is that a problem for you guys?
And then are you working with PGand E on that kind of thing?

Jenna Tenney (44:20):
Um, so I think there's two components, there's,
like literally, the grid, PGknees, you know, electricity
grid, and then there's theelectricity infrastructure at
any particular location, right.
So, in most cases, if you wereto go out to right, your, your
local grocery store, they're notgoing to have electricity

(44:41):
running out to the parking lot,right. And so, and it's also the
same way in your home if youwere to, you know, add another
another refrigerator, you know,as you keep adding things on you
run out of space, in your, yourfuse box. And so it's that type
of thing that I I think is thelarger issue, which is that the
infrastructure for individualplaces like if you're a

(45:04):
multifamily property, and youhave to run it from your common
area all the way through, if youhave a big winding property, how
are you going to get it to allof those places, and that is
definitely part of it of thetrenching and you have to, you
know, dig up all the concreteand run the lines, and it's a
break, it can be a big project.
So we're really working withthose properties. And that's one

(45:28):
of the reasons we provide 3500up to $3,500 per port is really
helping it become morefinancially feasible for them to
do all of the work needed to putthese charging ports in place.
As far as PG and E's grid, Ican't speak too much to what
they're doing. But I know thatthey're aware of, of what needs
to be changing, and they areworking on upgrading their

(45:49):
infrastructure as well.

Dina Rasor (45:51):
And I think that's been sort of sobered on that.
The frustrating thing and one ofthe reasons I want to get a
battery is that they got theyhad such horrible they caused so
many horrible wildfires are inthe last couple of years bay by,
you know, lines come the biglines coming down and stuff that
they now when the wind juststarts blowing a little bit in

(46:12):
this year as they shut off allthe electricity, so that it
won't start welfare but and thenin the electricity start off. So
I think they're really startingto realize that if they're going
to be the if they're going to bethe delivery service, they're
going to have to step up theirgame for this new LNG. Greg, you
have more questions? Well,

Greg Williams (46:33):
the one thing I wanted to ask is just uh, if you
could give us a betterunderstanding of just how you're
organized, a traditional powerutility is very constrained and
how it can spend its money andwhat it can charge. And I'm
wondering how that how thatdiffers with a CCA and others do

(46:53):
you have to go before rate boardand demonstrate that you've made
expenditures that that then needto be recovered through rates?
Or is there a differentarrangement for for CPAs? Yeah,

Jenna Tenney (47:06):
so it's it, I would say that it is similar to
what you just described. We arenot regulated, our rates are not
regulated by the CaliforniaPublic Utilities Commission, the
same way that pg&e And the otherinvestor owned utilities are. So
what we do is typically on anannual basis, although sometimes
it has been less often than thatis we go to our board and we

(47:27):
say, Hey, here's, here's whatwe've got going on. Here's our
here's our, you know, ourbudget, here's what we have
planned to spend, here's whatour powers costing us, based on,
you know, all this information,here's where we need to set
rates. And in the past, we have,we have lowered rates, we have
raised rates. So it really, youknow, we look at all of the
factors, and MCE, a big part ofour focus is really on financial

(47:49):
stability. And we were the firstCCA to get a credit rating and
the first CCA to have two creditratings. And those credit
ratings in the way that wemanage our rates and our
financials allow us to purchasepower at more competitive rates,
which in turn allows us to lowercosts potentially for customers,
or to reinvest those monies andother programs. So our board of

(48:12):
directors who is our governingbody for rates, they make the
ultimate decision on what ourrates should be, is the elected
officials from the membercommunities we serve. So I
mentioned earlier, we have 37member communities and we have
32 board members. And that isbecause the jurisdictions are

(48:32):
able to consolidate their voteif they'd like to. So Napa
County and all fivejurisdictions have one sitting
board member that represents allof those jurisdictions. So
that's why there's 32 instead of37. But that board, we have an
ad hoc rate ad hoc rate settingcommittee and so it will go to
that committee and then it willgo up to the subcommittee's or
executive committee andtechnical committee and then to

(48:54):
the full board for approval. Soit's definitely a process. We
have a ton of opportunity forpublic input. It's much easier
to reach us than it is to reachthe CPUC with questions about
rate setting and things likethat, so we encourage members of
the public to come to our boardmeetings, listen in participate

(49:14):
share their opinions. And what'snice about it also is because
these are local electedofficials, they are also on
their city council, town councilor county board of supervisors.
So if somebody our boardmeetings are currently remote,
but when they were in personbefore COVID, they could come to
our Concord AR Sandra felloffice to participate or they
could just go to their citycouncil and talk to them.
They're so much easier for folksto reach out but we are

(49:38):
regulated by our board asopposed to the state when it
comes to rates.

Dina Rasor (49:42):
And just to reiterate, the board is made up
of each community, eachcommunity or county or send a
representative and they choosethe representative.

Jenna Tenney (49:53):
Yeah, so the council sometimes sometimes they
vote sometimes they just saylike somebody says hey, I
haven't in interest to thecouncil says sounds great, you
can go. But it does have to besomeone who is an active member
of the the elected officialboard for that committee, the
governing board for thatcommunity

Dina Rasor (50:11):
that gives you better, better interaction with
your customers than someplacelike pee genies board, which
PGD, you know, is investment isan investment organization. So
they have, you know, likecompany. So that's what makes it
much more community oriented.

Jenna Tenney (50:29):
Yes, we do not have shareholders, we are a not
for profit public agency. Sowe're not here to make money. We
are here to serve ourcommunities. And we rely on our
board and our community membersto tell us what they need so
that we can better serve them.

Dina Rasor (50:49):
Okay, well, what else would you like to add? I
mean, we've covered a wholebunch of areas, is there some
area you think that some otherplace that you think that is
different? And your thing, then,you know, people across the
country who are all cursing,their utilities is pointing?
There's a lot of that a lot of alot of people upset about their

(51:10):
utilities?

Jenna Tenney (51:12):
Yeah. I mean, I think it's, it's hard. Right
now, I think there's a lotshifting, I think, for those of
us talking about climate change,right, where we're seeing that
we're seeing these extreme heatstorms, this is the second one.
And breaking all of those heatrecords, we're seeing the
effects of climate change. Andit is in fact, impacting the way

(51:36):
that we are able to useelectricity. And so MCE, we're
really looking at climatechange, as as the major problem
that we need to solve climatechange is the problem that is
causing a lot of these, whatseemed like individual issues,
and we want to address that. Butthen we also want to look at the

(51:57):
ways that it is actuallyimpacting individuals, whether
that's my powers going out, orI'm no longer able to drive a
gas powered vehicle, or, youknow, in the case of events,
like the extreme heat storm thatwe had, were we're putting
natural gas peaker plantsonline, where we're pumping

(52:17):
fossil fuels into the air sothat we can keep the power on
and we are really looking toaddress that so that we don't
have to do that. And so thatcommunities that have been
historically marginalized, areable to have cleaner air and
water and a better experience.

Greg Williams (52:35):
So I'm curious, you've certainly created in me
the impression that when youneed more solar or wind power,
you just go out and get it oryou funded or you encourage
development via incentives youseem to have. Or, again, you've
given me the impression thatyou, you have this limitless

(52:56):
supply of renewable energy. Andyet at the same time, there are
stories in the press aboutthings like keeping Diablo
Canyon in operation longer, oras you put it, additional gas
peaker plants, so why why dosome organizations both inside
California and elsewhere, feelthis need to rely on these these

(53:22):
non renewable technologies tocreate power when you seem to
have as much as you like? Well,I will

Jenna Tenney (53:30):
say that there is not an unlimited supply of
renewables, right, they need tobe built the same way that any
other type of resource would. Soyou know, CPAs are looking out
into the market and saying,Okay, we have to purchase power
for 2030. What's out there? Whatare we going to have built
what's going to be online by theend, right. So that's, that's

(53:52):
part of it is making sure thatyou're planning out far enough
that you do have these resourcesactually built and online, and
serving power when the timecomes. The the major issue,
though, is that solar has for along time been the primary
source for renewables. Wind is areally big component. But as I

(54:13):
mentioned earlier, large hydrois not considered renewable. So
we're looking really heavily atwind and solar. And both of
those resources areintermittent. You only have
solar energy when the sun isshining, and you only have wind
when the wind is blowing. Andthey do pair pretty well
together. So as sun is this asthe sun is going down in the
evening, the wind is ramping upand so you get kind of solar

(54:36):
goes down, and then wind laterin the evening starts to pick
up. But that's why we talk aboutthis gap in four to nine because
all of the solar has comeonline, offline. People are
going home, they're makingdinner, they're they're doing
their laundry, they may beplugged in their electric
vehicle, and so the need forelectricity goes up, but there
aren't any really renewablesavailable on the grid at that

(54:57):
time to meet that need. And sothat's where I Things like
Diablo Canyon and natural gasresources come online because
they're 24/7. They're what'sconsidered baseload resources.
So MCE is really looking at bioenergy as the next step for
baseload resources. But that'salso why we're so heavily
focused on battery storage,because it allows us to shift

(55:20):
that solar load and still usethose renewables.

Greg Williams (55:25):
Okay, so what are your deep green customers do
between four and 9pm? Today?

Jenna Tenney (55:31):
That's a great question. So I'll go back to the
bathtub analogy, right. So theway that power accounting works
as you look at it over thecourse of an entire year, so if
you sign up for deep green, wesay, okay, we know that over the
course of the year, you're usingX amount of electricity. So
we're gonna go out and make surethat we purchase that same
amount of electricity fromcompletely renewable energy 50%,

(55:54):
wind 50% solar, over the courseof the entire year. And that's
how power accounting works. Butit doesn't necessarily address
that gap that we're talkingabout now. And so that's where
baseload resources baseloadrenewables, specifically, and
battery storage, are, where allof that comes into play.

Dina Rasor (56:17):
Do you have a question? No, I think I've
probably had everythinganswered, although I think the
the battery thing is the nextbig thing, because you know, my
solar panels go like crazy, andI'm selling it back. And then in
the evening, I'm buying backelectricity. So if I had my own
my own batteries, which I'mgoing to get to, because

(56:40):
sometimes pg&e just turns offthe power and own the Sierras,
is going to be the way that youcan even get out without having
to rely on fossil fuel, oil andkind.

Greg Williams (56:54):
So maybe one last question I'll ask is, do you
have some time in the futurethat you would anticipate having
enough battery storage withinyour production network, that
you could say to a deep greencustomer, you will never consume
anything but or probably can'tsay that period. But do you have

(57:16):
a point in time, the future whenyou can imagine saying we have
enough both base andintermittent load, all in
renewable, supported bybatteries, that we can provide
as much power as people need,regardless of the hour of the
day. That's,

Jenna Tenney (57:33):
that's the ultimate goal. That is the
ultimate goal is that you haveall of these solutions, working
in tandem so that we can reachCalifornia's goals for being
completely greenhouse gas freeand completely renewable. So
yeah, we were working towardsthat goal the same way as the
rest of the state. And that's,that's going to be a combination

(57:56):
of of all of these things,looking at distributed energy
resources and aggregating theminto a resource that you can
turn on and off, making surethat individual customers, large
commercial customers,municipalities, and the large
industrial size, power plantsall have access to some type of
storage resource, green hydrogenI mentioned earlier. So these

(58:18):
all of these things have to worktogether in order to get us
where where California wants tobe. And I think we can do it. I
think these, these newinfrastructure investments and
the IRA are a great step in thatdirection, right, those getting
access to those fundingresources, and MCE is just a
piece of that puzzle. And Ithink we all need to be we all

(58:42):
are and we all need to beworking toward that ultimate
goal.

Greg Williams (58:47):
All right, well, that's probably a great note on
which to end unless either viewas anything else you want to
add. So I will thank you onceagain for joining us again, our
guest is Jenna Tenny. Who is whois representing what used to be
called marine clean energy andnow just MCE and we hope to see

(59:10):
you again sometime in thefuture.

Jenna Tenney (59:12):
Thanks so much for having me.

Dina Rasor (59:15):
Thank you