December 22, 2024 • 24 mins
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2024/10/35bednar?lang=eng#p_v5xX0
Why is pride a “spiritual poison” and “deadly spiritual disease”?
What has the Book of Mormon taught you about humility?
What made the Lamanites a “righteous people” while the Nephites become “grossly wicked” (Helaman 6:1-2)?
How might prosperity lead to pride and then from pride to apostasy?
What “small and simple things” can protect us from pride?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Welcome to Closer to Christ, the General Conference, where two friends who love Jesus share our
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own approach to studying the most recent General Conference talks.
This is Abbey and Amy.
Let's jump into it.
Today we're talking about Elder Bednar's talk in the space of not many years.
So I love the way that he started his talk.
Abbey, by the way, happy to see you.
Glad you're here.
It is so good to be here.
It's so exciting to be on the last talk of the Saturday night session.
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We're flying through these.
Love it.
So I love how he started this talk.
He just really acknowledged who was there and there was a bit of softness and I really,
really loved it.
He said that it was a beautiful and joyous sight for him to see the conference center
fill up three times for the first time since COVID.
He acknowledged the crowd as being devoted disciples of Jesus Christ who are eager to
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learn and commended them for their faithfulness.
Loved that.
Though not physically in the conference center, you and I joined them and are also now joining
in this moment in an opportunity to demonstrate that we too are disciples of Jesus Christ
and that we're also eager to learn.
And so with that intro, let's get right into it.
All right.
So he goes on to reference some things that were a big focus for him from President Benson
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during his service and to transition to that, he just kind of mentioned his timestamp.
He's like, I was 33 when he was called to the prophet and until the time I was 42.
And I know it wasn't the exact intention of the talk, but from the title in the space
of not too many years and him picking a specific part of his life to reflect on the lessons
that he learned from the prophet that were impactful on his testimony in that time made
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me stop and think of how many changes happen to us if we look back at a snapshot of time
in the course of not too many years, like last night, my Facebook memory pops up and
it's a Facebook memory from nine years ago making gingerbread with my children and my
neighbors is gingerbread house making very important.
Maybe not.
But what it did for me was a quick mental playback of, you know, what those children
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look like all these years later, what those neighbors are doing.
They've all moved different parts of the country.
We have more children.
We've moved from that home.
Yeah, we've added to the family for sure.
And so I think maybe all of you will probably think, yeah, what's happened to me in the
space of not too many years?
How quickly time can pass and we can either be satisfied with where we've gotten to or
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we can look at it and think like, not super happy with that.
We can make some changes and make the next chunk of years a little bit differently.
So great.
So he credits President Benson for his focus on the purpose and the importance of the Book
of Mormon.
That's why he was referencing why he was thinking of that time in his life.
Peter Bednar emphasized repeatedly that the Book of Mormon is the keystone of our religion,
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the keystone of our testimony, the keystone of our doctrine, and the keystone in the witness
of our Lord and Savior.
He also often emphasized teachings and warnings about the sin of pride found in this latter
day testament of Jesus Christ.
That's a good summary of what the Book of Mormon is.
And I've been thinking lately a lot of like somebody that has a question about a prophet
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or a policy of the church or something, all of those things are important to kind of wrap
our heads around, but what's the most important is the Book of Mormon.
That is what we should base our testimonies off of.
That is what all things should rest upon.
What we learn about our Savior Jesus Christ in those words.
Every time I study the Book of Mormon, I consider this is a significant story and there are
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so many things that could have been included in that last abridgment of this book, but
each of them were designed to hold a place and teach a certain lesson.
Elder Benner reminds us of what President Benson shared on that.
He said, the Book of Mormon was written for our day.
The Nephites never had the book, neither did the Lamanites of ancient times.
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It was meant for us.
Mormon wrote near the end of the Nephite civilization under the inspiration of God who sees all
things from the beginning.
Mormon abridged centuries of records, choosing the stories, speeches, and events that would
be most helpful to us.
And then quoting Mormon, he said, Behold, I speak unto you as if ye were present, and
yet ye are not, but behold, Jesus Christ has shown you unto me, and I know your doing.
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Think it's so comforting to know what the intent of the book was and why as we read
it and we find answers in it that it's so plausible that those answers can be there
for us.
So, Abby, just circling back really quick with what Elder Benner said, I grew up learning
the Book of Mormon is the keystone of our religion.
I heard that over and over and over again.
I will say that this is new to me and maybe it's just that I'm ready to hear it now.
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Maybe I've heard it a bunch of times before, but the keystone of our testimony, the keystone
of our doctrine, and the keystone of our witness and Lord and Savior, it just brings another
layer of understanding of the Book of Mormon to me and also allows for me to make more
room in my heart, in my testimony, in the doctrine, and as a witness of the Lord Jesus
Christ.
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Like, I want to bring all of those together.
I appreciate him broadening my vision.
R.L. Vision of the keystone.
Peace.
And the fact is that when something comes our way and it's unsettling and we know that
we have some work to do in it, doesn't that read to you as though the Book of Mormon should
be the first thing that we turn to?
A. Totally.
R.L. I mean, that's in the same way we're saying we're turning to the Savior.
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He's just in abundance through the pages of it.
So for whatever reason we're saying we're turning to it, it's such good advice to just
say get into the book.
A. Love it.
R.L. And then when we're done there, then what further questions does that spark?
Then where can we go from there?
A. And where does the Spirit take you?
R.L. Totally.
A. So good.
Each of us, oh sorry, each of the major writers of the Book of Mormon testified that their
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words were for future generations.
Just like you said, doesn't a book written by prophets who saw the challenges and problems
we would face highlight how essential the Book of Mormon is for us?
Here are a few ways to ask ourselves questions as we do our own study.
Why did the Lord inspire Mormon to include this account in his record?
What lesson can I learn from this admonition to help me live in this day and age?
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A. As for studying the book and we're identifying warnings, we find important principles and
lessons for our day.
It's incredible to think that an ancient record can do that, but I can personally testify
the answers have come to my many questions as I've looked into the sacred book.
And I hope, I mean, Amy's shaking her head.
She's definitely had that experience and I'm hoping that you're thinking, yeah, I've
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gotten my answers there before.
A. Absolutely.
Let's go over some of the more, some of the important lessons Elder Bednar wanted to highlight.
Lessons that from his perspective as an apostle of God are the most relevant today.
It's fitting that it's Christmas time right now and we're discussing in the Book of Helam
in a time when the people were anticipating the birth of Jesus Christ.
In the span of 50 years, we read of the conversion and righteousness of the Lamanites and the
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wickedness, apostasy and abomination of the Nephites.
A. Don't you think too often we think the word Nephite, we're like, oh, they're good,
Lamanite means bad.
But in reality, because of agency, both of those groups of people had equal opportunity
to follow Jesus Christ or not.
A. They flip-flopped all throughout.
A. And we see, yeah, that totally changed hands multiple times over the course of the
book.
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Right after the resurrection of Jesus Christ, they're all one in Christ.
And at the end of the book, complete apostasy, none are in Jesus Christ.
But in these particular chapters that we're focusing on, we do see this role reversal.
And then we might say, how did this happen?
What caused the more part of the Lamanites to become righteous, in so much that the righteousness
did exceed that of the Nephites?
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And to answer that question, we find out that it's because of their firmness and their steadiness
in the faith, while at the same time, the Nephites hardened their hearts and became
grossly wicked, in so much that they did reject the Word of God and all the preaching and
prophesying which did come among them.
A. Yes.
It's important to recognize the contrast between the choices we have between trusting
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and relying on God or turning away from Him.
We might ask ourselves the question, what caused this covenant corruption?
A. Let's quote the scripture, and thus we see that the Nephites did begin to dwindle
in unbelief.
To me, I like the word dwindle or dwindling because it's a slow decline.
It's where we stop doing the little things that we were doing and we atrophy away, a
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little at a time, but at a steady pace, maybe even hardly recognizing that any change is
happening at all, until the end result is that the Spirit's totally withdrawn from
the Nephite people.
But since the story is for our time, that's how we do it too.
A. For sure.
Human nature, right?
When you're in this weakened state of this being dwindled, it is much easier to fill
the void with things in opposition to God's way.
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We learned that they did grow in wickedness and abominations.
Inversely, the Lamanites began to grow exceedingly in the knowledge of their God.
Yea, they did begin to keep His statutes and commandments and to walk in truth and uprightness
before Him.
So what a huge difference, right?
They're opposites here.
A. I like the word begin because it marks a start to change, which over the course of
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50 years led to a generation of righteousness and in turning away from their former lives
and sin.
I love this.
And thus we see that the Lord began to pour out His Spirit upon the Lamanites because
of their easiness and willingness to believe in His words.
A. Yes.
Elder Bednar provides really great questions here.
He said, how could a once righteous people become hardened and wicked in such a short
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period of time?
Or how could people so quickly forget the God who had blessed them so abundantly?
A. Here comes the lessons we learn from the negative example of the Nephites and the instruction
we can gain about a lesson we absolutely need for our day, a lesson on the cycle of pride.
So pride began to enter into the heart of the people who profess to belong to the Church
of God because of their exceedingly great riches and their prosperity in the land.
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Don't we find the greatest blessings as members of Christ's Church?
In this world, sometimes those blessings are sometimes monetary.
We have to continually recognize that blessings are coming from Him.
He is the channel and He gets to channel His blessings where He will.
And there are plenty of times when the blessings aren't monetary, but it's still a gift.
We either recognize that all good things come from Him or we take pride in actually thinking
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that we have done that for ourselves.
When we have gratitude for the things we have, we are acknowledging that we know where they
came from and in turn acknowledge the hand of God.
A. And tend to reap more blessings based on that because He's like…
A. For sure.
He's a good giver.
It's probably one of the most repeated warnings in the Book of Mormon, this cycle of pride,
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because being a covenant people does reap blessings and then at some point when we stop
acknowledging that God's the one that provided those blessings, then we're crediting that
power to ourselves.
A. For sure.
In our personal lives, the cycle of pride can go in short spurts all over the place
and then as a people, it's kind of a slower altogether.
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You know what I mean?
Being a covenant people brings covenant blessings.
So when we're abiding by God's law, there's an abundance of them.
And then we have to be faced with this decision.
Am I going to pat myself on the back and think, man, look what a good job I did?
Or am I going to say, what blessings have come from this covenant relationship that
I'm in with the Lord?
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And we had just talked a couple of episodes about gratitude, how gratitude unlocks the
blessing from heaven.
Understanding where our blessings come from, bringing more blessings while the opposite
is true.
Setting ourselves upon riches and vain things of the world brings to us what Elder Bednar
called the poisons of pride.
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K. Listen to this little piece.
Pride entered into their hearts, which lifted them up beyond that which is good.
To me, it's a lesson that a portion of pride is good in pride in the things we are accomplishing
as a team, us and Jesus Christ.
That part is a good part.
And then when is it not?
A question to consider like, how might prosperity lead to pride and then pride to apostasy?
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He has such a concise way, I love this part, of articulating the pattern.
Prosperity, possessions and ease constitute a potent mixture that can lead even the righteous
to drink the spiritual poison of pride.
Let's talk about this poison of pride, Abby.
Okay, still right from the talk, he said, we see historically that pride leads people
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to mock that which is sacred.
I definitely read this with, what am I seeing in our day and age as he's making this list
up?
Because he pulled this list from what we saw from our Book of Mormon ancestors, told us
that it was going to be applicable to our day.
And so stop as I read each of these things, like, do I see that in my day?
So again, historically that pride leads people to mock that which is sacred.
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Unfortunately, yes.
Like when people get a taste of our garment or inside the temples, like they mock that
rather than just accepting that it's a beautiful sacred thing.
Disbelief in the spirit of prophecy and revelation, God doesn't talk to people in this day and
age versus God has a prophet, he's the mouthpiece.
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Trample under our feet the commandments of God, when we sit and we twist those to make
sense with our set of morals in the world versus like being absolute in the idea that
God's laws don't change.
Deny the Word of God.
Remember this wouldn't be to necessarily say that like I don't believe in this or that,
but instead the actions that we do based on the truths we believe or don't.
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What are we making time for?
What aren't we making time for?
That's what's really articulating whether we're denying the Word of God or not.
We cast out, we mock and we revile against the prophets.
And that can look different ways.
Clearly, we're not casting them out physically.
Right.
I think that goes exactly to the thing I said before.
If the prophet says something and we do the thing he's suggesting, then we're sustaining
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the prophet.
We are holding him up as somebody we trust and look to for guidance versus if he says
and invites us to do something, we don't take that up.
We're not maybe necessarily mocking him, we're not maybe casting him out.
We have room for him.
But you can see how that's a step towards complete casting out, complete mocking, reviling.
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Sometimes we forget the Lord our God and not desire that the Lord our God who hath created
us should rule and reign over us.
So for me, that's a reminder of having gratitude over pride.
Who did those blessings come from?
That one I love the way he says it because he reminds us that he's our creator and then
when we don't have a desire to let our creator rule over us, it just doesn't make any sense.
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It shows us for us as humans, it shows how nonsensical that actually is.
So I appreciate it.
The opportunity to raise children in this lifetime, I mean, isn't that we know we can
let this resonate as truth because what happens, you've got like a four year old, you tell
him to do something and they tell you like, they're not doing it.
You're like, excuse me, I brought you into this world.
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I know what's best for you.
That's why I suggested it.
It wasn't just for fun.
So many times I stop and I'm like, yes, Father and Father, it is ironic.
I do understand that you're teaching me through these little people that are a mirror of me.
I do understand that.
I got it loud and clear.
Thank you for that gift.
Seeking for happiness is doing iniquity, which thing is contrary to the nature of that righteousness
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which is in our great eternal head.
And the last one, Mormon observed, not the last point, but from the talk, the more part
of the people remained in their pride and wickedness and the lesser part walked more
circumspectly before God, meaning a lot of the times we aren't in the majority when we're
trying to follow his example, his laws.
But even though that might be true, maybe we're not lacking in quantity, people that
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are standing with us and turning to God, overturning to the ways of the world, we still have quality
and support.
The voices get really loud these days, especially where social media makes it easier than ever
to mock God's prophets, God's laws, and tests us on the idea of leaning into our own
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understanding versus turning to him.
For sure, this is a great list, Abby.
These don't come in particular order, but as they come, they build on each other until
the point that we take what was once a God-given blessing of prosperity and turn it into a
prideful curse that diverts and distracts us from eternal truths and vital spiritual
priorities.
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We must always be on guard against a pride-induced and exaggerated sense of self-importance.
That's so good.
Pride-induced and exaggerated, because that's exactly what it is.
A misguided evaluation of our own self-sufficiency and seeking self instead of serving others.
This is such a hard balance because I think we had pointed out before that they got the
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more part of pride.
They got a little bit over prideful.
It's saying to me, what I'm hearing with my ears is that a certain sense of pride is important.
It's good.
But pride in what you're doing is a team, you and God.
And then when we take him out of the equation and we think that we did it all on our own,
that really is when the tides turn for it.
I thought this was probably the most eye-opening part of the talk for myself.
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When we become prideful and value the things that we have affiliated and done for ourselves,
we become self-absorbed.
We pridefully focus upon ourselves and we also are afflicted with spiritual blindness
and miss much, most or perhaps all that is occurring within and around us.
We cannot look to and focus on Jesus Christ as the mark if we only see ourselves.
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I love that, Abby, the part where it says we miss what is occurring within us and around
us.
Again, it's that self-reflection and being aware.
Time and time again in the Book of Mormon, we see the pattern and the steps it takes
to get to this point.
And we see that God repeatedly sends prophets to refocus His children, who are us, and point
us to Him through the example of the Son.
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And sometimes they do and prosperity and peace abound, but more often we see as Elder Bednar
describes that their spiritual blindness caused them to turn out of the way of righteousness,
fall into forbidden paths and become lost.
As we blindly turn onto our own ways and follow destructive detours, we are inclined to lean
upon our own understanding, boast in our own strength, and depend upon our own wisdom.
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And that only lasts for a certain amount of time, right?
We might get away on our own understanding for a certain time and think that we're
getting away with it, but we've all seen it in ourselves, we've all seen it through
the Book of Mormon stories.
Play out, it doesn't last forever.
Let's run through some of the things that, because it's more happy, let's run through
some of the things that the Lamanites did as they turned to God.
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If I'm going to ask this as a question, I'd say, how did the Lamanites reject falling
into pride at this point in the Book of Mormon?
Danielle Pletka Awesome, Abby.
So at this point, the Lamanites believed in the teachings in the Holy Scriptures and in
the prophets.
So instead of rejecting them, they embraced.
They exercised faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, repented of their sins, meaning they were
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checking in with the Lord, making minor adjustments and corrections to be guided in a covenant
relationship.
It's always back to the covenants.
All of those small and simple steps read to them experiencing a mighty change of heart.
These small and simple things made them free.
They do observe to keep the commandments and the statutes and His judgments.
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And then the last one I have is, they are striving with unwavering diligence that they
may bring the remainder of their brother into the knowledge of the truth.
I love that part.
When they know these things to be true, they weren't selfishly focused inwardly on themselves,
but they were looking outwardly and considering, what can I do to help those around me?
This made for both ministering efforts and missionary efforts, this is the same way that
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we can look at those.
I love that.
We talked a lot about whole civilizations and groups ignoring their covenants.
You had just mentioned that, turning away from God.
But we're reminded in this talk that apostasy can occur at what we would consider the institutional
level, these whole groups of people, or on the personal level.
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There we go.
That's what I was saying earlier.
Thank you.
I'm going to make this in the back of your mind, like, he's going to bring that up.
In this dispensation of times, the fullness of the gospel will never be completely removed
off the earth as it has in every past dispensation.
And so, I think we listen to that, we hear that, we know that, we've heard that a few
times and it's like, that's something that gives us hope.
But sometimes it might make us complacent, like, we're never going to slip into it.
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The world's never going to slip into apostasy because the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints will not be lost.
That's a true statement.
But that does not prevent an individual from allowing pride to distance themselves from
the truth.
Lots of individuals.
Right.
Falling into an apostasy, regardless of what the status of the world is around you.
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He gives us some guideposts here to consider.
Simply stated, if you or I do not believe we could be afflicted with and by pride, then
we are vulnerable and in spiritual danger.
In the space of not many days, weeks, months or years, we might forfeit our spiritual birthright
for far less than a mess of pottage.
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That part hit me hard.
I love how concise, again, he is.
He's always so clear about this.
This I want you to hear with the words of Action Item.
Like you're using those to assess.
So that's a quote right from the talk.
If we don't think that we can be afflicted by pride, then we're in spiritual danger.
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So I guess the way to word that as an action item is have you assessed whether you are
vulnerable to pride or something?
It doesn't have to be super thought out.
But there's another question you can ask yourself.
If however you or I believe we could be afflicted with and by pride, then we consistently do
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the small and simple things that will protect and help us become as a child, submissive,
meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord see
as fit to inflict upon us.
Blessed are they who humble themselves without being compelled to be humbled.
There's the action item.
There it is.
That's concise as it needs to be.
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Am I blessed to be humble?
Am I being compelled or forced to be humble?
Is something happening?
That's a great way to put it, right?
Yeah, I like that action item.
I would way rather choose to be humble than to be humbled because he will do it whichever
way to get his children to embrace him and the gifts that he wants to give us.
He'll do it either way that we need to learn that lesson.
I like the later of the two.
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Abby, what do you have for us in closing?
I just want to testify because we're wrapping up the end of a Book of Mormon study year.
This is going to kind of come around Christmassy time.
There's not going to be a ton more lessons.
We're all wrapping up that reading.
We're all in Moroni.
And I'll testify for one that I've been deeply touched by what I've learned from the Book
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of Mormon and want to add my witness that it does give answers to specific challenges
that we're facing today.
You can find answers within the pages.
Sitting on a bookshelf, no.
Listening to somebody tell you what they've learned from the Book of Mormon, not so much.
That each of us has the opportunity to be inspired by a record that was inspired to
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fix the things, to find answers to the things.
I mean, Jesus Christ is going to be the answer, but how we're going to pair ourselves with
him and get through those trials is found within the book.
And I'll close with Elder Bednar's testimony.
He said, I joyfully witnessed that God the Eternal Father is our Father.
Jesus Christ is his only begotten and beloved Son.
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He is our Savior.
And I testify that as we walk in the meekness of the Lord's Spirit, we will avoid and overcome
pride and have peace in him.
So I witness in the sacred name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Amen.
Welcome to Closer to Christ, the General Conference, where two friends who love Jesus share our
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own approach to studying the most recent General Conference talks.
This is Abbey and Amy.
Let's jump into it.
Today we're talking about Elder Bednar's talk in the space of not many years.
So I love the way that he started his talk.
Abbey, by the way, happy to see you.
Glad you're here.
It is so good to be here.
It's so exciting to be on the last talk of the Saturday night session.
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We're flying through these.
Love it.
So I love how he started this talk.
He just really acknowledged who was there and there was a bit of softness and I really,
really loved it.
He said that it was a beautiful and joyous sight for him to see the conference center
fill up three times for the first time since COVID.
He acknowledged the crowd as being devoted disciples of Jesus Christ who are eager to
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learn and commended them for their faithfulness.
Loved that.
Though not physically in the conference center, you and I joined them and are also now joining
in this moment in an opportunity to demonstrate that we too are disciples of Jesus Christ
and that we're also eager to learn.
And so with that intro, let's get right into it.
All right.
So he goes on to reference some things that were a big focus for him from President Benson
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during his service and to transition to that, he just kind of mentioned his timestamp.
He's like, I was 33 when he was called to the prophet and until the time I was 42.
And I know it wasn't the exact intention of the talk, but from the title in the space
of not too many years and him picking a specific part of his life to reflect on the lessons
that he learned from the prophet that were impactful on his testimony in that time made
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me stop and think of how many changes happen to us if we look back at a snapshot of time
in the course of not too many years, like last night, my Facebook memory pops up and
it's a Facebook memory from nine years ago making gingerbread with my children and my
neighbors is gingerbread house making very important.
Maybe not.
But what it did for me was a quick mental playback of, you know, what those children
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look like all these years later, what those neighbors are doing.
They've all moved different parts of the country.
We have more children.
We've moved from that home.
Yeah, we've added to the family for sure.
And so I think maybe all of you will probably think, yeah, what's happened to me in the
space of not too many years?
How quickly time can pass and we can either be satisfied with where we've gotten to or
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we can look at it and think like, not super happy with that.
We can make some changes and make the next chunk of years a little bit differently.
So great.
So he credits President Benson for his focus on the purpose and the importance of the Book
of Mormon.
That's why he was referencing why he was thinking of that time in his life.
Peter Bednar emphasized repeatedly that the Book of Mormon is the keystone of our religion,
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the keystone of our testimony, the keystone of our doctrine, and the keystone in the witness
of our Lord and Savior.
He also often emphasized teachings and warnings about the sin of pride found in this latter
day testament of Jesus Christ.
That's a good summary of what the Book of Mormon is.
And I've been thinking lately a lot of like somebody that has a question about a prophet
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or a policy of the church or something, all of those things are important to kind of wrap
our heads around, but what's the most important is the Book of Mormon.
That is what we should base our testimonies off of.
That is what all things should rest upon.
What we learn about our Savior Jesus Christ in those words.
Every time I study the Book of Mormon, I consider this is a significant story and there are
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so many things that could have been included in that last abridgment of this book, but
each of them were designed to hold a place and teach a certain lesson.
Elder Benner reminds us of what President Benson shared on that.
He said, the Book of Mormon was written for our day.
The Nephites never had the book, neither did the Lamanites of ancient times.
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It was meant for us.
Mormon wrote near the end of the Nephite civilization under the inspiration of God who sees all
things from the beginning.
Mormon abridged centuries of records, choosing the stories, speeches, and events that would
be most helpful to us.
And then quoting Mormon, he said, Behold, I speak unto you as if ye were present, and
yet ye are not, but behold, Jesus Christ has shown you unto me, and I know your doing.
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Think it's so comforting to know what the intent of the book was and why as we read
it and we find answers in it that it's so plausible that those answers can be there
for us.
So, Abby, just circling back really quick with what Elder Benner said, I grew up learning
the Book of Mormon is the keystone of our religion.
I heard that over and over and over again.
I will say that this is new to me and maybe it's just that I'm ready to hear it now.
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Maybe I've heard it a bunch of times before, but the keystone of our testimony, the keystone
of our doctrine, and the keystone of our witness and Lord and Savior, it just brings another
layer of understanding of the Book of Mormon to me and also allows for me to make more
room in my heart, in my testimony, in the doctrine, and as a witness of the Lord Jesus
Christ.
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Like, I want to bring all of those together.
I appreciate him broadening my vision.
R.L. Vision of the keystone.
Peace.
And the fact is that when something comes our way and it's unsettling and we know that
we have some work to do in it, doesn't that read to you as though the Book of Mormon should
be the first thing that we turn to?
A. Totally.
R.L. I mean, that's in the same way we're saying we're turning to the Savior.
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He's just in abundance through the pages of it.
So for whatever reason we're saying we're turning to it, it's such good advice to just
say get into the book.
A. Love it.
R.L. And then when we're done there, then what further questions does that spark?
Then where can we go from there?
A. And where does the Spirit take you?
R.L. Totally.
A. So good.
Each of us, oh sorry, each of the major writers of the Book of Mormon testified that their
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words were for future generations.
Just like you said, doesn't a book written by prophets who saw the challenges and problems
we would face highlight how essential the Book of Mormon is for us?
Here are a few ways to ask ourselves questions as we do our own study.
Why did the Lord inspire Mormon to include this account in his record?
What lesson can I learn from this admonition to help me live in this day and age?
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A. As for studying the book and we're identifying warnings, we find important principles and
lessons for our day.
It's incredible to think that an ancient record can do that, but I can personally testify
the answers have come to my many questions as I've looked into the sacred book.
And I hope, I mean, Amy's shaking her head.
She's definitely had that experience and I'm hoping that you're thinking, yeah, I've
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gotten my answers there before.
A. Absolutely.
Let's go over some of the more, some of the important lessons Elder Bednar wanted to highlight.
Lessons that from his perspective as an apostle of God are the most relevant today.
It's fitting that it's Christmas time right now and we're discussing in the Book of Helam
in a time when the people were anticipating the birth of Jesus Christ.
In the span of 50 years, we read of the conversion and righteousness of the Lamanites and the
(07:02):
wickedness, apostasy and abomination of the Nephites.
A. Don't you think too often we think the word Nephite, we're like, oh, they're good,
Lamanite means bad.
But in reality, because of agency, both of those groups of people had equal opportunity
to follow Jesus Christ or not.
A. They flip-flopped all throughout.
A. And we see, yeah, that totally changed hands multiple times over the course of the
book.
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Right after the resurrection of Jesus Christ, they're all one in Christ.
And at the end of the book, complete apostasy, none are in Jesus Christ.
But in these particular chapters that we're focusing on, we do see this role reversal.
And then we might say, how did this happen?
What caused the more part of the Lamanites to become righteous, in so much that the righteousness
did exceed that of the Nephites?
(07:46):
And to answer that question, we find out that it's because of their firmness and their steadiness
in the faith, while at the same time, the Nephites hardened their hearts and became
grossly wicked, in so much that they did reject the Word of God and all the preaching and
prophesying which did come among them.
A. Yes.
It's important to recognize the contrast between the choices we have between trusting
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and relying on God or turning away from Him.
We might ask ourselves the question, what caused this covenant corruption?
A. Let's quote the scripture, and thus we see that the Nephites did begin to dwindle
in unbelief.
To me, I like the word dwindle or dwindling because it's a slow decline.
It's where we stop doing the little things that we were doing and we atrophy away, a
(08:31):
little at a time, but at a steady pace, maybe even hardly recognizing that any change is
happening at all, until the end result is that the Spirit's totally withdrawn from
the Nephite people.
But since the story is for our time, that's how we do it too.
A. For sure.
Human nature, right?
When you're in this weakened state of this being dwindled, it is much easier to fill
the void with things in opposition to God's way.
(08:54):
We learned that they did grow in wickedness and abominations.
Inversely, the Lamanites began to grow exceedingly in the knowledge of their God.
Yea, they did begin to keep His statutes and commandments and to walk in truth and uprightness
before Him.
So what a huge difference, right?
They're opposites here.
A. I like the word begin because it marks a start to change, which over the course of
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50 years led to a generation of righteousness and in turning away from their former lives
and sin.
I love this.
And thus we see that the Lord began to pour out His Spirit upon the Lamanites because
of their easiness and willingness to believe in His words.
A. Yes.
Elder Bednar provides really great questions here.
He said, how could a once righteous people become hardened and wicked in such a short
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period of time?
Or how could people so quickly forget the God who had blessed them so abundantly?
A. Here comes the lessons we learn from the negative example of the Nephites and the instruction
we can gain about a lesson we absolutely need for our day, a lesson on the cycle of pride.
So pride began to enter into the heart of the people who profess to belong to the Church
of God because of their exceedingly great riches and their prosperity in the land.
(10:05):
Don't we find the greatest blessings as members of Christ's Church?
In this world, sometimes those blessings are sometimes monetary.
We have to continually recognize that blessings are coming from Him.
He is the channel and He gets to channel His blessings where He will.
And there are plenty of times when the blessings aren't monetary, but it's still a gift.
We either recognize that all good things come from Him or we take pride in actually thinking
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that we have done that for ourselves.
When we have gratitude for the things we have, we are acknowledging that we know where they
came from and in turn acknowledge the hand of God.
A. And tend to reap more blessings based on that because He's like…
A. For sure.
He's a good giver.
It's probably one of the most repeated warnings in the Book of Mormon, this cycle of pride,
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because being a covenant people does reap blessings and then at some point when we stop
acknowledging that God's the one that provided those blessings, then we're crediting that
power to ourselves.
A. For sure.
In our personal lives, the cycle of pride can go in short spurts all over the place
and then as a people, it's kind of a slower altogether.
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You know what I mean?
Being a covenant people brings covenant blessings.
So when we're abiding by God's law, there's an abundance of them.
And then we have to be faced with this decision.
Am I going to pat myself on the back and think, man, look what a good job I did?
Or am I going to say, what blessings have come from this covenant relationship that
I'm in with the Lord?
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And we had just talked a couple of episodes about gratitude, how gratitude unlocks the
blessing from heaven.
Understanding where our blessings come from, bringing more blessings while the opposite
is true.
Setting ourselves upon riches and vain things of the world brings to us what Elder Bednar
called the poisons of pride.
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K. Listen to this little piece.
Pride entered into their hearts, which lifted them up beyond that which is good.
To me, it's a lesson that a portion of pride is good in pride in the things we are accomplishing
as a team, us and Jesus Christ.
That part is a good part.
And then when is it not?
A question to consider like, how might prosperity lead to pride and then pride to apostasy?
(12:20):
He has such a concise way, I love this part, of articulating the pattern.
Prosperity, possessions and ease constitute a potent mixture that can lead even the righteous
to drink the spiritual poison of pride.
Let's talk about this poison of pride, Abby.
Okay, still right from the talk, he said, we see historically that pride leads people
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to mock that which is sacred.
I definitely read this with, what am I seeing in our day and age as he's making this list
up?
Because he pulled this list from what we saw from our Book of Mormon ancestors, told us
that it was going to be applicable to our day.
And so stop as I read each of these things, like, do I see that in my day?
So again, historically that pride leads people to mock that which is sacred.
(13:04):
Unfortunately, yes.
Like when people get a taste of our garment or inside the temples, like they mock that
rather than just accepting that it's a beautiful sacred thing.
Disbelief in the spirit of prophecy and revelation, God doesn't talk to people in this day and
age versus God has a prophet, he's the mouthpiece.
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Trample under our feet the commandments of God, when we sit and we twist those to make
sense with our set of morals in the world versus like being absolute in the idea that
God's laws don't change.
Deny the Word of God.
Remember this wouldn't be to necessarily say that like I don't believe in this or that,
but instead the actions that we do based on the truths we believe or don't.
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What are we making time for?
What aren't we making time for?
That's what's really articulating whether we're denying the Word of God or not.
We cast out, we mock and we revile against the prophets.
And that can look different ways.
Clearly, we're not casting them out physically.
Right.
I think that goes exactly to the thing I said before.
If the prophet says something and we do the thing he's suggesting, then we're sustaining
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the prophet.
We are holding him up as somebody we trust and look to for guidance versus if he says
and invites us to do something, we don't take that up.
We're not maybe necessarily mocking him, we're not maybe casting him out.
We have room for him.
But you can see how that's a step towards complete casting out, complete mocking, reviling.
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Sometimes we forget the Lord our God and not desire that the Lord our God who hath created
us should rule and reign over us.
So for me, that's a reminder of having gratitude over pride.
Who did those blessings come from?
That one I love the way he says it because he reminds us that he's our creator and then
when we don't have a desire to let our creator rule over us, it just doesn't make any sense.
(14:54):
It shows us for us as humans, it shows how nonsensical that actually is.
So I appreciate it.
The opportunity to raise children in this lifetime, I mean, isn't that we know we can
let this resonate as truth because what happens, you've got like a four year old, you tell
him to do something and they tell you like, they're not doing it.
You're like, excuse me, I brought you into this world.
(15:16):
I know what's best for you.
That's why I suggested it.
It wasn't just for fun.
So many times I stop and I'm like, yes, Father and Father, it is ironic.
I do understand that you're teaching me through these little people that are a mirror of me.
I do understand that.
I got it loud and clear.
Thank you for that gift.
Seeking for happiness is doing iniquity, which thing is contrary to the nature of that righteousness
(15:40):
which is in our great eternal head.
And the last one, Mormon observed, not the last point, but from the talk, the more part
of the people remained in their pride and wickedness and the lesser part walked more
circumspectly before God, meaning a lot of the times we aren't in the majority when we're
trying to follow his example, his laws.
But even though that might be true, maybe we're not lacking in quantity, people that
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are standing with us and turning to God, overturning to the ways of the world, we still have quality
and support.
The voices get really loud these days, especially where social media makes it easier than ever
to mock God's prophets, God's laws, and tests us on the idea of leaning into our own
(16:23):
understanding versus turning to him.
For sure, this is a great list, Abby.
These don't come in particular order, but as they come, they build on each other until
the point that we take what was once a God-given blessing of prosperity and turn it into a
prideful curse that diverts and distracts us from eternal truths and vital spiritual
priorities.
(16:45):
We must always be on guard against a pride-induced and exaggerated sense of self-importance.
That's so good.
Pride-induced and exaggerated, because that's exactly what it is.
A misguided evaluation of our own self-sufficiency and seeking self instead of serving others.
This is such a hard balance because I think we had pointed out before that they got the
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more part of pride.
They got a little bit over prideful.
It's saying to me, what I'm hearing with my ears is that a certain sense of pride is important.
It's good.
But pride in what you're doing is a team, you and God.
And then when we take him out of the equation and we think that we did it all on our own,
that really is when the tides turn for it.
I thought this was probably the most eye-opening part of the talk for myself.
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When we become prideful and value the things that we have affiliated and done for ourselves,
we become self-absorbed.
We pridefully focus upon ourselves and we also are afflicted with spiritual blindness
and miss much, most or perhaps all that is occurring within and around us.
We cannot look to and focus on Jesus Christ as the mark if we only see ourselves.
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I love that, Abby, the part where it says we miss what is occurring within us and around
us.
Again, it's that self-reflection and being aware.
Time and time again in the Book of Mormon, we see the pattern and the steps it takes
to get to this point.
And we see that God repeatedly sends prophets to refocus His children, who are us, and point
us to Him through the example of the Son.
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And sometimes they do and prosperity and peace abound, but more often we see as Elder Bednar
describes that their spiritual blindness caused them to turn out of the way of righteousness,
fall into forbidden paths and become lost.
As we blindly turn onto our own ways and follow destructive detours, we are inclined to lean
upon our own understanding, boast in our own strength, and depend upon our own wisdom.
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And that only lasts for a certain amount of time, right?
We might get away on our own understanding for a certain time and think that we're
getting away with it, but we've all seen it in ourselves, we've all seen it through
the Book of Mormon stories.
Play out, it doesn't last forever.
Let's run through some of the things that, because it's more happy, let's run through
some of the things that the Lamanites did as they turned to God.
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If I'm going to ask this as a question, I'd say, how did the Lamanites reject falling
into pride at this point in the Book of Mormon?
Danielle Pletka Awesome, Abby.
So at this point, the Lamanites believed in the teachings in the Holy Scriptures and in
the prophets.
So instead of rejecting them, they embraced.
They exercised faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, repented of their sins, meaning they were
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checking in with the Lord, making minor adjustments and corrections to be guided in a covenant
relationship.
It's always back to the covenants.
All of those small and simple steps read to them experiencing a mighty change of heart.
These small and simple things made them free.
They do observe to keep the commandments and the statutes and His judgments.
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And then the last one I have is, they are striving with unwavering diligence that they
may bring the remainder of their brother into the knowledge of the truth.
I love that part.
When they know these things to be true, they weren't selfishly focused inwardly on themselves,
but they were looking outwardly and considering, what can I do to help those around me?
This made for both ministering efforts and missionary efforts, this is the same way that
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we can look at those.
I love that.
We talked a lot about whole civilizations and groups ignoring their covenants.
You had just mentioned that, turning away from God.
But we're reminded in this talk that apostasy can occur at what we would consider the institutional
level, these whole groups of people, or on the personal level.
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There we go.
That's what I was saying earlier.
Thank you.
I'm going to make this in the back of your mind, like, he's going to bring that up.
In this dispensation of times, the fullness of the gospel will never be completely removed
off the earth as it has in every past dispensation.
And so, I think we listen to that, we hear that, we know that, we've heard that a few
times and it's like, that's something that gives us hope.
But sometimes it might make us complacent, like, we're never going to slip into it.
(20:53):
The world's never going to slip into apostasy because the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints will not be lost.
That's a true statement.
But that does not prevent an individual from allowing pride to distance themselves from
the truth.
Lots of individuals.
Right.
Falling into an apostasy, regardless of what the status of the world is around you.
(21:17):
He gives us some guideposts here to consider.
Simply stated, if you or I do not believe we could be afflicted with and by pride, then
we are vulnerable and in spiritual danger.
In the space of not many days, weeks, months or years, we might forfeit our spiritual birthright
for far less than a mess of pottage.
(21:38):
That part hit me hard.
I love how concise, again, he is.
He's always so clear about this.
This I want you to hear with the words of Action Item.
Like you're using those to assess.
So that's a quote right from the talk.
If we don't think that we can be afflicted by pride, then we're in spiritual danger.
(21:59):
So I guess the way to word that as an action item is have you assessed whether you are
vulnerable to pride or something?
It doesn't have to be super thought out.
But there's another question you can ask yourself.
If however you or I believe we could be afflicted with and by pride, then we consistently do
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the small and simple things that will protect and help us become as a child, submissive,
meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord see
as fit to inflict upon us.
Blessed are they who humble themselves without being compelled to be humbled.
There's the action item.
There it is.
That's concise as it needs to be.
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Am I blessed to be humble?
Am I being compelled or forced to be humble?
Is something happening?
That's a great way to put it, right?
Yeah, I like that action item.
I would way rather choose to be humble than to be humbled because he will do it whichever
way to get his children to embrace him and the gifts that he wants to give us.
He'll do it either way that we need to learn that lesson.
I like the later of the two.
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Abby, what do you have for us in closing?
I just want to testify because we're wrapping up the end of a Book of Mormon study year.
This is going to kind of come around Christmassy time.
There's not going to be a ton more lessons.
We're all wrapping up that reading.
We're all in Moroni.
And I'll testify for one that I've been deeply touched by what I've learned from the Book
(23:24):
of Mormon and want to add my witness that it does give answers to specific challenges
that we're facing today.
You can find answers within the pages.
Sitting on a bookshelf, no.
Listening to somebody tell you what they've learned from the Book of Mormon, not so much.
That each of us has the opportunity to be inspired by a record that was inspired to
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fix the things, to find answers to the things.
I mean, Jesus Christ is going to be the answer, but how we're going to pair ourselves with
him and get through those trials is found within the book.
And I'll close with Elder Bednar's testimony.
He said, I joyfully witnessed that God the Eternal Father is our Father.
Jesus Christ is his only begotten and beloved Son.
(24:09):
He is our Savior.
And I testify that as we walk in the meekness of the Lord's Spirit, we will avoid and overcome
pride and have peace in him.
So I witness in the sacred name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Amen.
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