September 9, 2025 • 39 mins
In this episode of Clover, I’m joined by Camille Ricketts, now a partner at XYZ Venture Capital and formerly a marketing leader at Tesla, First Round Capital, and Notion.
Camille’s career journey has been anything but linear—starting as a journalist at The Wall Street Journal, moving into communications at Tesla, where she worked directly with Elon Musk, then pioneering content marketing with First Round Review, and later scaling community-led growth at Notion. Today, she brings that breadth of experience to her work in venture capital, helping founders and startups thrive.
We cover:
- What it’s like to pivot when the path you’ve been working toward isn’t the right fit.
- Lessons from building Tesla’s early communications team and learning from Elon’s leadership style.
- How Camille created the First Round Review, one of the most influential startup content platforms.
- What it takes to scale community and user-led storytelling at Notion.
- Why understanding which “stage” of company you thrive in is essential to building your career.
- How Camille defines success today—by helping others rise and giving credit away.
Camille’s story is a reminder that careers aren’t ladders—they’re winding, evolving journeys built on curiosity, adaptability, and purpose.
Related links or mentions within the episode:
- Communities / Resources:
- Social Media / Links:
- Twitter/X: @CamilleRicketts
- LinkedIn: Camille Ricketts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Erin Geiger (00:11):
All right, so welcome Camille, to Clover. So
super excited to have you here.
You're one of the first people Ithought of to ask to invite onto
the show, so super excited thatwe can make a time work out. So
thank you for being here.
Unknown (00:28):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be
one of the inaugural guests onthe show, and very honored you
asked. Oh, I love it.
Erin Geiger (00:36):
So typically, we just jump right in. I know our
listeners would love to hear Ikind of like, you know, call it
like your origin story, like,you know, what? How did you get
started with your career, andhow has your leadership kind of
journey progressed to where youare today.
Unknown (00:54):
My career is definitely emblematic of the windy road. I
would say where it started inone place, and I would have
never anticipated that it wouldbe where it is today. But
hopefully it's kind of aninteresting parable for those
listening on how you can startin one direction and then see
where the wind takes you alittle bit and respond
accordingly. So I actuallystarted my career as a
(01:15):
journalist, and that had been myconcept growing up the entire
time. You know, I had anewspaper when I was in the
third grade. I was editor of myjunior high newspaper, my high
school newspaper, my collegenewspaper, and then I found
myself in my first job at theWall Street Journal at the
London Bureau, which is like,Wow, you really. You went out
(01:37):
and you did it. And when I wasworking there probably a year
in, it was suddenly clear to methat that is not what I wanted
to be doing, which is a veryshocking thing to work all of
that time and have all of thatbuild up and then realize that
where you arrive is notnecessarily where you feel like
you should be, and then havingto kind of go back to the
(01:59):
drawing board a little bit. Soif I can share anything, it's
that that is okay to have thatexperience, as long as you
figure out, like, what that nextstep is to
Erin Geiger (02:09):
really figure that out. Like, how are you like, one
day, you know what? Nope, whereI want to be,
Unknown (02:16):
yeah. I mean, truly.
And it was one of these thingswhere, you know, I was 24 all of
my friends seemed to be workingat consulting firms or at
investment banks, and here I wasa journalist in the middle of
the sort of 2008 2009 economiccrash being like, I don't know
what I want to do. So it was avery strange spot to be in, not
what I had hoped, necessarily,but then, honestly, it was just
(02:40):
open to what came next. So Imoved back from New York to San
Francisco. I lived in my parentshouse for a while. I started
writing for a blog calledVenture Beat, which, at the
time, was right up there withsort of Tech Crunch and Giga
home and like the big tech pressboom, I was like, I'm just gonna
write about things that I findreally interesting, and at the
(03:03):
time, that was climate and greentechnology. So I really just
kind of shut down, retooled,relied on friends who worked at
VentureBeat already to helpusher me in. And then about two
years into doing that, I waswriting about Tesla Motors all
the time, like truly, all thetime, and I got an outreach from
(03:24):
the Head of Marketing andCommunications at the time,
saying, Would you be interestedin interviewing for this job on
our communications team? Andthat was the first time I had
really even thought about goingin that direction. So it really
was sort of a deus ex machina.
If there's a lesson in that,it's just like, be open to the
(03:47):
universe.
Erin Geiger (03:49):
Yeah, that's huge.
It's kind of funny. You say thatbecause I'm so deep into that
space right now. You know,reading all the books, listening
to the podcast, just about thatsort of like in flow state and
vibrational levels and, youknow, and all of that with the
universe too. So it's so funnythat just synchronicity, like,
be open to receive and be open,you know, to the universe. So
(04:10):
anyway, go on, yeah,
Unknown (04:13):
and not be so stuck on your self conception of like,
No, I am this type of person.
This is what I do, that youaren't open to evolution in
those ways. So I did gointerview for that job. I ended
up getting it, and that was sortof my first foray and jump into
marketing and communications,which was really the deep end of
the pool, because part of thatjob was, in fact, sitting to
(04:34):
Elon's right and making sure hehad all the data and facts and
figures at his fingertips whenhe spoke to publications like
Road and Track or wired, etc.
So, you know, that really got methinking about, how can my
writing skills be translatedinto some of these other career
choices? And that has led methrough now, obviously the role
(04:57):
of Tesla working at first roundcap. Middle where I had the
really good fortune of startingtheir content marketing program.
And then truly, it really wasthis thing where first round
happened to invest in a companycalled notion. So I got to know
the CEO very, very early on, andthat's what led me to be head of
marketing at notion, right thereat the very beginning, and build
(05:19):
out a lot of that early team andstrategy, and then, because I
worked at notion, and that endedup being this very classic sort
of roller coaster, but up intothe right journey for a startup,
I got the chance to then go backto venture, but this time on the
investing side. So that bringsus up to date.
Erin Geiger (05:40):
Not too long winded? No, it's such a cool,
cool story. So let's dig alittle bit. So wow, I didn't
realize that you were had thatexperience with Elon so early
on. That's so interesting.
Unknown (05:52):
I was 26 and kind of sitting there being like, wow,
this is how am I here? And howcan I not fail at this?
Erin Geiger (06:00):
Right? Yeah. How was it with him? We'll move on.
But I know people are going tobe like, Why didn't you ask her
more about that? So, but how wasit in that such early stages,
you know, of Elon Ness?
Unknown (06:17):
Yeah. I mean, this was 2010 so that's about three years
after he acquired Tesla andreally became the CEO, and then
decided, you know, it shouldn'tjust be the Roadster, it should
be this entire line of vehicles.
It was honestly the bestexperience that I could have
asked for when it came to like,just on the job training as a
young person, just how sharp andinformed and prepared you need
(06:39):
to be in every single situation.
I got thrown into a lot of sortof scenarios where I was like,
drive the Roadster up theeastern seaboard and stop along
the way and talk to journalistsand small towns, or go to Vegas
and be on the casino floor, likegiving people a walk around of
the car. It really did make meso much more adaptable. Um, and
(07:04):
Elon at that point in time. Imean, I can't speak to
necessarily anything after 2012but he really helped me out in
just terms of how exacting hewas, and I really appreciated
the example that he set foreverybody in terms of, like, we
need to choose a direction, andthen we're just going to attack
(07:25):
it with everything we've got.
Erin Geiger (07:27):
Okay? And do you, do you kind of subscribe to that
kind of leadership methodologyyourself?
Unknown (07:35):
Oh, interesting. I think that my approach is
different, but I think thatthere's no substitute for
clarity in terms of this iswhere we are all going together.
And here are the tactics thatare going to get us there. And
can we all make sure that we'realigned on those so that we can
(07:55):
move as one, like to me,shipping all of these sort of
electric cars, and electric carswas like a new concept the
world, being able to paint thatpicture for everybody, not just
externally, but also at thecompany around like this is what
the reality will look like whenwe do this. And here are the
actual things that need to getdone in order for this to be
(08:17):
possible. I do think that I tooksome leadership pointers away
from that.
Erin Geiger (08:23):
Okay, and I can only imagine moving from Tesla
to first round. I mean, it wasmaybe a jarring experience. It
just seems
Unknown (08:34):
like different, yes, well, it's interesting, because
I kind of got my start incontent marketing at Tesla,
where it wasn't just traditionalcomms, but there was a blog,
there was a newsletter, therewas the social media channels
that we were running. And so Ireally got kind of a buffet
overview of all the differenttypes of content channels that
are important for a marketingteam. And so that was what I
(08:59):
really saw as being consistentgoing to first round, and it it
honestly was such a heartwarmingtransition, in a way, because
the team at first round, thereare so high character and
mission driven to a largeextent, that I felt like, Oh, I
am still participating insomething that is making the
world a better place if Wesucceed. So that was kind of the
(09:22):
through line. And then I justwas so appreciative of all the
autonomy they gave me to reallycreate this content marketing
strategy, slash publication fromscratch.
Erin Geiger (09:33):
Yeah. And how did you go about that? You know, I'm
sure there's people, you know,listening, who maybe are on the
verge of taking something onwhere they're not replacing
somebody else, and they have tobuild out this world, you know.
So how did you kind of attack itthere, and maybe in other
experiences in your career aswell, where you come in and it's
like green
Unknown (09:52):
fields totally. And I think the cold start can be so
intimidating, right? So, likefirst step, I think. Give
yourself a ton of grace that,like, Okay, if it feels like
your brain is racing in all ofthese different directions and
you don't have, like, animmediate, clear conception of
what it is you want to do, like,that's okay and super normal,
(10:13):
and so just kind of let yourselfsit with that discomfort. But
then, I think, like, the firstthing to always do is to define
your audience, like, truly, whois it out there that you need to
move in some direction? It's notjust like, oh, who are all the
people that are likely to payattention? It's the people who
you really want to create sometransformation in some way,
(10:34):
like, whether that is gettingthem to contact you about buying
something, whether that is themlearning something brand new
that they can then go apply. Butlike really trying to get as
specific as you can on thatdefinition of audience, and then
try to talk to as many of themthat fit that definition as
possible. Like, one of thethings that I did at first round
(10:56):
was figure out, you know, whichfounders would we ideally want
to replicate if we could havebeen like these were the folks,
where we would invest in themseveral times over. And what was
it that those people reallywanted? What was it that they
were missing in their everydaylives running these companies,
and almost all of them said somevariety of I would really love
to be able to have coffee withJeff Weiner or Stewart
(11:18):
Butterfield, or some of thesefolks who were really, I think,
in the limelight at that time asbeing really inspiring leaders.
And of course, most early stagefounders don't have access to
like go sit down with someonelike that. So my task really
was, how do you scale that typeof conversation and the value
(11:39):
that it might come out of it.
And that's how the review formatof just like, very deep,
tactical interviewing, came tobe, was, can I be a proxy for
the founder, asking these, like,very, very specific questions
and pulling these learnings outof these folks?
Erin Geiger (11:56):
Okay, no, it's so interesting. I know I love the
work that you, you've done atfirst round for sure, so and
then, as you kind of segued intonotion, tell us kind of about
that transition and the scale ofwhat you built at first rounded.
It kind of compound, you know,as notion was growing or, yeah,
(12:16):
talk
Unknown (12:16):
about that, yeah. Well, I took, I took some time off in
between first round and notion.
And I will just say to youraudience that if you can, I know
it's a privilege, but if you cantake any time off in between
things, I highly recommend doingit just to make sure that you're
sort of resetting your world alittle bit, and to take a breath
and to think about yourintentions for the next role.
(12:38):
But when I landed at notion, nomatter how much peace I had
tried to cultivate for myself,it was immediately very, very
scary, mostly because I wentfrom leading marketing at a
venture capital firm, which isso different, like at a venture
capital firm, your goal is tomaximize awareness of that
(12:58):
particular venture capital firmso that you have the opportunity
to work with the exceptionalpeople that you are able to meet
through that route at a companylike notion, or most companies,
you are trying to maximize youraudience in order to maximize
revenue, and truly just be like,How can I reach as many people
as possible and convince themthat this is something that they
(13:18):
Want and should spend money on.
And we were going from, youknow, factor of 1000s of people
to now, like many millions ofpeople that I was hoping to
convert in this way. And solanding there and identifying,
like, the first things to do,which were very different, like
content marketing, wasn't goingto be the reason that anyone
(13:40):
decided to use notion. And so itactually was not something that
I even brought onto the teamuntil, like, a year in. Instead,
it was more like, oh, peoplewant templates in order to
understand how they can usethis. They want community
because they want to cometogether and talk about what
they're building. So the firstthings that I ended up doing
(14:00):
were actually very antitheticalto what I had learned at first
round and were more like, how dowe start an ambassador program?
How do we get user education outthere into the field in a way
that doesn't feel heavy handed?
How can we make sure that ourdesign and like the web
experience and the brandexperience feels really cohesive
with the product? So yeah, I wasit was being comfortable, or
(14:23):
getting myself comfortable withbeing like, maybe nothing that I
did before is going to translateto this, and I'm gonna have to
figure
Erin Geiger (14:31):
it out. Yeah, that's which can be exciting and
scary all at the same time.
Unknown (14:35):
Yes, yes. And also you have that horrible feeling of
like, I hope that no one aroundme can tell that I don't really
know what I'm doing, let me see
Erin Geiger (14:45):
smoke and mirrors.
And so you mentioned kind ofbringing content marketing into
your organization about a yearin. So when you first came on,
like, how did you decide how tokind of structure the team
you're about? Building and whoto bring on first and all that.
Unknown (15:02):
Yeah. So definitely, the thing that was most asserted
about notion, like, the thingthat was the most obvious was
that people already, organicallywanted to be talking about it
like they were on Twitter, theywere on YouTube, they were on
Instagram, all being like, lookat what I build. Isn't this
cool? And there was, like ahandful of 20 of these people
who just kept popping up. So itbecame somewhat clear that if we
(15:25):
put these people together andhelped facilitate them
amplifying notion, then we wouldhave people on our own behalf
telling our story out there inthe world. And that was going to
be great. So actually, the veryfirst hire that I made to the
team has been Lang who has goneon to become, I think, one of
the most well recognized andEpic community leaders in the
entire industry. But he was theone that really started the
(15:47):
notion Ambassadors Program,which, over time, then turned
into multi hundreds of peoplevery attached to the product out
there, telling our story veryloudly on our behalf. Our
influencer program was born outof that all these people who now
teach notion courses or buildnotion templates, or like people
(16:10):
who now are selling likeconsulting services, all of that
that came out of the communitythat Ben built, and then also
figuring out, like, Okay, who?
Who is going to help me coverthe basics here when it comes to
like, an email onboardingseries, making sure that the
onboarding in the productactually was orienting people so
(16:32):
that they wouldn't immediatelybounce out of it. And was able
to work with a really talentedindividual named David Tibbetts,
who started on the customerexperience team, started before
me at notion, and then became aproduct marketer, sort of
overnight, and has now gone onto become the product marketing
(16:52):
lead for notion AI, which Ithink is like their tent pole
product. But that, to me, wasthis interesting learning
experience of, just like peoplehave all of these skills, can
you be creative and open mindedabout how those skills combine
in order to do something?
Erin Geiger (17:12):
Yeah, yeah. And because you were so early on in
notion, like, what was thegrowth trajectory like when you
left, like in, you know, whatwas that like bring, you know,
being like, at a company or suchearly stage and kind of bringing
it forward,
Unknown (17:30):
yeah. I mean, there's an interesting story that I had
the pleasure of working on withMolly Graham, who was the COO of
quip. She's one of these folksthat has just like, been a
leader early on at like Google,Facebook, extremely
knowledgeable now. She runs anorganization for coos. She and I
(17:51):
worked on the story togethercalled give away your Legos.
About what it feels like to beat a early stage startup, which
is, you know, you're buildingyour thing here, but then more
and more and more people arebeing hired, and you feel the
company expanding. And it reallydoes feel like you're being
pulled apart in a lot of ways,where, like the thing that you
used to do, the thing that youused to own, is now being split
(18:12):
into many little pieces andapportioned out to many more
people. And it can really feellike so disorienting. There's a
lot of anxiety involved in beinglike, no, but this was my job,
and if you hire more people,then aren't I going to lose my
job? And it makes the growthfeel just like, really hard,
(18:34):
honestly, to endure sometimes.
And I certainly fell prey tothat. I was like, Thank goodness
I helped write that story,because I at least went in eyes
open a little bit. But it canfeel like really, really intense
to just see the company growing.
Not have a direct line of sightto how you are going to scale
(18:55):
yourself, necessarily, but justbe like, if I put in these reps
or this energy, that I thinkI'll get there. But to anybody
who's in that experience rightnow, it is, it is incredibly
normal to just be feeling likekind of a generalized anxiety
without knowing where it'scoming from,
Erin Geiger (19:13):
yeah. And for a lot of people, it's, it's a
discovery, right? Because thensome people are like, Oh, I'm a
builder, you know, like, I Ilive in the building phase of a
company, and then I move on, youknow, to my next thing and
Unknown (19:27):
absolutely, and then certain things, like, you'll
pioneer certain programs, andthen that program will become
somewhat repetitious, you know,you'll be like, let's start
doing webinars. And now, notion,does, you know, multiple
webinars per week, and it's likea factory floor. And you do have
to know yourself really well inthat sense. And actually, when I
(19:48):
am helping people earlier intheir careers figure out, like
what they might want to do nextor what they should be pursuing,
I do put some emphasis on Do youknow what stage of person you
are? Because I think. It is likea very, very different
experience. And it's one ofthose things that feels very
core to people, in the sensethat if you misplace yourself
(20:09):
along that continuum, it canfeel like a wrong match pretty
fast.
Erin Geiger (20:13):
Yeah, for sure. And I think a lot of people don't
realize that going in,especially in the startup world,
you know, of like as the companychanges, you are may you may or
may not change with it, andthat's okay, you know,
Unknown (20:24):
yes, yes. And also, like, very much. So not allowing
that to be a value judgment onyourself, where, like, people
are constantly talking about,like, Oh, are you going to scale
with the growth of the company?
I mean, the growth the companyis going, like, almost vertical,
and like, people grow linearly,generally speaking. So unless
you really are putting, youknow, some superhuman effort
into it, which a lot of peopledo, but I think it's hard for
(20:47):
some people to be like, Oh, Ijust wasn't good enough. Or
there was this saying thatcreeped into my mind somewhere
along the line in my career,that was truly exceptional.
People can adapt to anyenvironment. And I just want to
share that like, I do not thinkthat that's true. I think you
can be truly exceptional andfind yourself at the wrong stage
(21:08):
or in the wrong company, andthat's okay, and not about your
count your talent,
Erin Geiger (21:16):
right? It's more about Okay. Where do you go from
here? You know, kind of a thing.
And so, and then you so, youwent from motion, you went back
to venture, right? So where youare now. And so, how was that
kind of transitioning? I feellike you've come for full
circle. Like, yeah, how is thattransitioning to venture? And
what, what do you love aboutwhat you're doing now? And what
do you see is your leadershipcapacity currently?
Unknown (21:42):
Yeah, I mean, one thing that I love about venture is
just the variety. So the jobthat I'm in now here at XYZ
venture capital, I'm one of fourpartners inside of a team of 13
people, and I just love how myjob is really all about meeting
incredibly brilliant people andtalking to them about new ideas,
(22:03):
like what a gift to be in thattype of role. And even when days
are hard, I try to center myselfwith the gratitude that that's
really the basis of what it isthat I do, and then the fact
that I do get to take all ofthis sort of like hard one
knowledge that I got from notionand observing so many companies
at first round, like all of thetough nights, all of like the
(22:26):
situations I did not know how tonavigate and bring what I
learned to bear for the foundersthat I work with now, so that
hopefully I can help themshortcut, or at least, like have
a better sense of what to do insome of the toughest spots of
the
Erin Geiger (22:42):
journey. Yeah, on that I can imagine like stakes
are probably pretty high, youknow, in some situations that
you find yourself in, yeah, how,how do you kind of push through?
And how is that kind of like,how is your decision making
process impacted? And how do youkind of ensure that, because you
(23:03):
are leading others through it aswell. So how do you kind of
navigate
Unknown (23:07):
that? Yeah, um, it's interesting. So one of the
favorite parts of my role, liketruly, one of the greatest gifts
that I've had here at XYZ, isthat I get to work really
closely with an associate herenamed Lucy Wilmot, and she is
several years out of Harvard.
She is one of the brightest,most brilliant people I've met
(23:27):
in my career. And I think thatpart of what you're asking is
like, how does the like, what myleadership sort of themes have
been, and how have they havelike, materialized here and in
the decision making is that it'sa really beautiful give and take
between us, as we are evaluatingcompanies now together, where
(23:49):
we're able to kind of figure itout with one another. Because I
am also very new at this, and sopart of the way that the
leadership shows up is just likebeing really self aware, and I
think that that is an underratedpart of leadership, and then
allowing that to provideopportunity for her to step in
(24:09):
and maybe do more than you wouldgenerally do in an associate
role at a lot of firms. I don'tknow if that answers the
Erin Geiger (24:20):
question, and it's, I think it's a great thing that
you brought up too, because Ithink a lot of times we can feel
like, especially as we're kindof taking on new leadership
roles or kind of growing in ourcareers, like, I got this, like,
I don't need help, I don't needsupport, like, I'm in my little
silo and I'm going to pushthrough, and I got it, you know,
(24:40):
and, Yeah, or, like,
Unknown (24:41):
this is my box of work, and then I'm portioning out a
piece of that, and this is yourlittle box of work that people
don't learn from each otherreally well when that's the
setting,
Erin Geiger (24:52):
right? So I think that's another great point that
you brought up. Is like, youknow, it's okay, you know,
collaboration, and if you. Seesomething in someone else that's
kind of like, share, you know,because we all grow together.
And I think that also speaks toeveryone has such a different
definition of success, right?
And it's like, some people mightbe like, Well, I'm successful if
(25:16):
I can accomplish something withzero help. It's like, totally, I
Unknown (25:21):
think a lot of I drove this, right? I drove this from
end to end,
Erin Geiger (25:26):
exactly. And so it's like, you know, I don't
know, do you kind of have nowthat you're further along in
your career, like, a vision ofwhat success looks like to you?
And kind of like, has thatchanged over time from years ago
to who you are now, today,
Unknown (25:42):
definitely. I mean, today, I really think it's about
enriching the people around youto the best of your ability,
right? So like helping themunderstand things, helping them
get the resources they need, ifI can, and being able to, like,
pass the ball to a lot ofpeople, and not feeling like I
(26:04):
have to hang on to it in orderto get the glory or the credit.
And I think that that is like avery classic learning experience
over the course of one's career,like I definitely remember
earlier on, like feeling verypassionately that my individual
work get acknowledged, and if itwasn't, then I would either
sulk, or I would, like, raise myhand and be like, that was me.
(26:28):
And I think somewhere in like,my early 30s, through the
examples of other leaders, etc,it really, for me, became about
like, how much of that creditcan I give away and be like it
really was all of these folksaround me, and that's what makes
me feel the most successful, isif I get to do that most of the
(26:48):
time. Yeah, I think that that'ssomething that I would just
offer to anybody who's sort ofearlier in their careers, that
people often think that theyhave to claim achievement in
order to get thatacknowledgement. But it really
isn't, isn't what you think itis.
Erin Geiger (27:09):
Yeah, no, that's huge. And there's so many people
that are still learning that.
And so, you know, that's a it'sactually as a huge kind of
growth mechanism, for sure, andit does make me think, like, as
a woman who's had all of theseleadership roles, like, one
after the other, and kind oflike, forging your path, what
you have, any like, sort ofunique challenges that you came
(27:33):
across, like, you know, youknow, in a lot of these are male
dominated fields as well, youknow that you've been In. And so
how have you, kind of, like, howhas it impacted your career?
Kind of, what challenges haveyou had to overcome, really?
Unknown (27:48):
Yeah, you know, I feel very fortunate in the sense that
I don't feel like gender isentered in that much to my
experience, like I've never feltlimited in a way where, like,
oh, I can't get that job, or Ican't get that project, or
something along those lines. Itshows up every now and again,
(28:09):
oddly now in my 40s or my late30s, where people ask me all the
time about, am I married? Do Ihave kids? Do I have a family of
my own? And there appears to besome judgment embedded in that
that, like all of a sudden, isimpacting my professional life.
And I am a single, childlesswoman, child free woman, I can
(28:33):
see how, and this is somethingthat I did not expect to come
up, but in this very strangesort of latter part of my career
that ending up being somethingthat feels like there is a
professional aspect to it that Ididn't anticipate. I know that's
a very odd thing to bring up,and it's a little bit different
than like the general like, howmight being a woman have shown
(28:56):
up in different ways, but incase anyone out there is also
experiencing that you'redefinitely not alone.
Erin Geiger (29:03):
No, I'm glad you brought that up, because it is
true. Like they're not askingyour male colleague, you know,
like, what Tell me about yourkids? You know, like that
probably would ever come. Youknow, a friend of mine, Laura
belgray, she's an incrediblewriter, and has this amazing
book out. It's called toughtitties.
Unknown (29:25):
Like, great title.
Erin Geiger (29:26):
You'd actually love it. It's, she grew up in New
York, and it's just incredible.
And so she, she is married, butthey decided not to have kiddos.
And so she was like, even withthe her book, she was like, I'm
writing this book. And peoplekept saying, like, oh, it's
like, birthing a baby. Like,your book. It's like, your book,
baby. And she was like, It's notmy baby, it's a book that I'm
writing. Why is everyone equatelike, I'm not a mom, like, I
(29:49):
just tell you, you know, it'slike, leave me alone. It's a
book. Excited about it, but I'mnot birthing a book, baby. I.
Unknown (30:00):
Totally It's interesting being on the venture
side too, just in case it isrelevant to anyone out there
that oftentimes you areevaluated on the basis of your
character, because these arelong term partnerships where
people want to make sure thatthey know exactly who they're
entering into a deal with, andthat has to do with like the
(30:20):
limited partners that decide toinvest in our fund that has to
do with the folks who I'mexcited to fund. And so there's
a lot of, like, personalquestions that get passed around
in those sort of decision makingprocesses. And I've seen this
come up more and more
Erin Geiger (30:37):
often. Yeah, that's interesting. And so when you're
kind of, you're dealing with somuch throughout the day, right?
Every day is different, probablyfor you. Is there anything that
you do that kind of helps yourmindset or, you know, kind of,
like, shifts the tone, eitherthe beginning of every day or
throughout, where you're like, Igotta, like, reset, you know, is
(30:57):
there anything that you kind ofdo,
Unknown (31:00):
yeah, yeah. I mean, I think a lot of us have that
moment at least once a day whereit's like, okay, literally, it
feels like I've spilled a bunchof marbles on the floor, and
they're all just like, runningin different directions now,
with all the different tasksthat I could do with this
moment, and I think at thosemoments it's very important to,
like, go take a walk, like,truly, because even if you sit
down and you're going to try toforce yourself to make a
(31:22):
priority, make a prioritizedlist, as all those marbles are
running away from you, like,it's not going to be good. So
like, go, like, look away from ascreen. Go, like, buy a beverage
that's, like, across the streetor something, and then come
back. And then I really do liketo make lists. So I and written
lists are very helpful to me forwhatever reason. I'm a
kinesthetic learner, so I justsort of start writing the things
(31:46):
that I don't want to forget,because so much of it can just
be like I have to remember, Ihave to remember, and then I'll
go through and I'll actually putnumbers next to them after I've
written them all down, okay, sothat I don't feel like I have to
write them down in a particularorder. It's really just about
externalizing and thenprioritizing, yeah, but yeah. I
think one of the biggestchallenges that I feel like, I'm
(32:08):
sure everybody talks about it,but also feels like nobody talks
about it, is just how much inour modern jobs we have to
remember do, like, hold in ourbrains, honestly, in order to to
get our jobs done,
Erin Geiger (32:23):
yeah, no, and it's huge, and I love that, that you
kind of, I just get everythingout. I'll just write everything
down. It doesn't have to be inany, some sort of, like, fancy
order or fashion or anything.
It's just you get it out, andthen after that, yeah, then you
can deal with prioritizing it.
Because I think that people upas well, you know, they're like,
Well, wait, what's this is, youknow, this is like, higher
priority than this, and then Ican, you know, and it's like,
(32:45):
no, no, just like, word vomit,get it all out. You know,
prioritize from there, yeah,totally. People up,
Unknown (32:52):
yeah. I think when we, like force, force, all of our
tasks into, like, these verylike, sort of hospital corners,
sort of systems,
Erin Geiger (33:00):
exactly, everything, yeah, everything's
in a bucket in a certain place,and it's, you know, and it's
just like, No stop.
Unknown (33:08):
It's okay to just, yeah, yeah. That's so funny.
Erin Geiger (33:14):
So is there any sort of, any sort of, like,
resource that has helped you,like, be it, like I mentioned
the book a little bit earlier,like a book, a podcast, or, you
know, a blog, or just like aleader that you follow, you know
that you'd want to, kind oflike, share with others might be
listening, that might help themout, you know, check out too,
and your leadership or careerjourney, really,
Unknown (33:35):
yeah, I mean, a book that made a profound impact on
me, and it's definitely, like,helpful for marketers, but I
think it'd be helpful for anyoneas play. Anyone is play bigger,
which is essentially like, hey,it's very easy to get into the
minutia of your day to day andbreak your job down into like,
these, these tasks. But how canyou make sure that you are
always keeping at least, like,one foot in the How can I how
(34:00):
can I do something reallyimpactful on like, a order of
magnitude above, like, just likethe sheer day to day of plowing
through one's email and not letgo of the idea in your career of
having that type of broaderimpact and being, like, quite
purposeful, I think is, like,really, really important for me,
(34:22):
and it's a book that I thinkreally helped enshrine that for
me, I'm really lucky to workaround people who I want to be
more like, and that was actuallyone of my decision making
criteria when I was decidingwhich firm would be interesting
to try this investing role atis, can I surround myself fully
(34:43):
with people like where? If Ibecome more like them, because
we spend so much time together,I would be a happy camper. And
one of my partners here is a guynamed Art Clark, and He most
recently was running AI and MLprograms at Apple. So very smart
guy and. The way that art runshis life is just like incredibly
(35:05):
thoughtful, and I've never seenanyone do it quite like it,
where he has OKRs across hispersonal life and his
professional life to make surethat he is investing in all the
things that he hopes will cometo fruition in certain ways,
within, like, five years, 10years every week on Sundays, art
has a meeting with himself thatis non negotiable that he always
(35:26):
has, where he goes through thenext two weeks and make sure
that everything feelsmanageable. He's not double
booked himself in any way, or hecan correct anything like that,
where he's setting hisintentions and making sure that
he is going to have the abilityto sort of revisit how he
performed against thoseintentions week after week. And
(35:47):
that, to me, is just like, blownmy mind open, and I can see how
it's, like, transformative overtime. So I just wanted to share
that with your listeners,because that's one of the things
that has made the biggest impacton me since I've taken this job,
Erin Geiger (36:01):
wow, that is huge.
Because, I mean, there's so manythings that you said there, you
know, that we could dive into,but the fact that, like so many
of us are just clawing our waytheir life, yeah,
Unknown (36:13):
just, please, let me get through this where, like,
somebody was like, you know, ifI had to be honest, like, I'm a
professional emailer like that.
If somebody were to watch me domy job, that's what they were to
do.
Erin Geiger (36:28):
I know it's like, I'm a professional meeting
attender and email, you know,email, exactly it's and it's
like, but just to stop and takethat broader look of like, okay,
but what else am I impacting bigpicture and and then I feel like
a lot of us are yes people like,okay, yeah, sure, I can take
that meeting. Oh, I'm doublebooked me. How do I figure this
out? You know? And so I lovethat He has this meeting with
(36:51):
himself, and he just makes sure,you know, because really, like,
our our physical and mentalhealth needs to come first, you
know. And like, make sure thatwe're not, you know, nothing's
too overwhelming, like we canfigure this out kind of a thing.
So I think that's a great,actually, thing that people
should add to their I was gonnaadd to their schedule to make
even more overwhelmed. But thisis like, check in with yourself
(37:12):
to make sure that that doesn'thappen. So thank you for sharing
that that's actually
Unknown (37:16):
super cool. Yeah, yeah.
And he's also been able it hashelped him do really incredible
things where it's like, I'mgoing to run this amount, I'm
going to write a novel on theside of my very demanding job, I
am going to not eat sugar,which, to me, feels
insurmountable, but it's asystem that just makes a lot of
those types of goals feel morerealistic. Yeah,
Erin Geiger (37:39):
for sure, it's been so amazing. Every time I talk to
you, I feel better abouteverything. So likewise, this is
such a great discussion. Wherecan people find you online if
they want to connect? Yeah,
Unknown (37:53):
I'm on Twitter. I'm just at Camille Ricketts, so
just exactly how it's sounds andspelled. I mean, I'm on there
quite a bit. I use Twittermostly to congratulate other
people on their accomplishments,because it feels like the best
venue for that, and I loveseeing what everybody else is up
to. And then LinkedIn as well.
I'm always excited to connect onLinkedIn. Okay,
Erin Geiger (38:16):
cool. We'll post those links, and I love that.
You also still call it Twitter.
I don't think I'll ever not callit Twitter.
Unknown (38:22):
Yes, used to sit next to Elon, still calling it
Twitter, refusing to dootherwise.
Erin Geiger (38:29):
I love it. Okay, so this is just a fun bonus
question that I ask everybody,and I might change it down the
line, but I've liked it for myfirst podcast, so I'm going with
it. We're such huge music headsover here. So I always ask if
there's only one music artistyou can listen to for the rest
of your life, who would it be?
Unknown (38:48):
I'm gonna say Paul Simon, mostly because I grew up
with Paul Simon, and he was myparents' favorite artist. And so
whenever I hear Graceland, thealbum in particular, I'm just
filled with all kinds ofmemories that make me quite
happy. Yeah, very
Erin Geiger (39:07):
cool, yay. Well, thank you for that. Yeah, some
people are like, that's such amean question. No idea.
Unknown (39:19):
Well, thank you for taking
Erin Geiger (39:20):
the time. Oh, mine, Beastie Boys. Oh, nice. Very
good. Yeah, go wrong with mymom's like, still, you still,
like,
Unknown (39:29):
you're like, Yeah, I'm the same person that I was.
Erin Geiger (39:33):
Like, you're not still seen anymore. What is your
deal? Like, yep, still, like,the beasties. But thank you
again for taking the time super,super fun as always, and you've
shared so many pieces of insightand advice that are going to be
so helpful. So I'm just supergrateful.
Unknown (39:50):
I'm so glad. Thank you for having me on this was really
great. Yeah.
All right, so welcome Camille, to Clover. So
super excited to have you here.
You're one of the first people Ithought of to ask to invite onto
the show, so super excited thatwe can make a time work out. So
thank you for being here.
Unknown (00:28):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be
one of the inaugural guests onthe show, and very honored you
asked. Oh, I love it.
Erin Geiger (00:36):
So typically, we just jump right in. I know our
listeners would love to hear Ikind of like, you know, call it
like your origin story, like,you know, what? How did you get
started with your career, andhow has your leadership kind of
journey progressed to where youare today.
Unknown (00:54):
My career is definitely emblematic of the windy road. I
would say where it started inone place, and I would have
never anticipated that it wouldbe where it is today. But
hopefully it's kind of aninteresting parable for those
listening on how you can startin one direction and then see
where the wind takes you alittle bit and respond
accordingly. So I actuallystarted my career as a
(01:15):
journalist, and that had been myconcept growing up the entire
time. You know, I had anewspaper when I was in the
third grade. I was editor of myjunior high newspaper, my high
school newspaper, my collegenewspaper, and then I found
myself in my first job at theWall Street Journal at the
London Bureau, which is like,Wow, you really. You went out
(01:37):
and you did it. And when I wasworking there probably a year
in, it was suddenly clear to methat that is not what I wanted
to be doing, which is a veryshocking thing to work all of
that time and have all of thatbuild up and then realize that
where you arrive is notnecessarily where you feel like
you should be, and then havingto kind of go back to the
(01:59):
drawing board a little bit. Soif I can share anything, it's
that that is okay to have thatexperience, as long as you
figure out, like, what that nextstep is to
Erin Geiger (02:09):
really figure that out. Like, how are you like, one
day, you know what? Nope, whereI want to be,
Unknown (02:16):
yeah. I mean, truly.
And it was one of these thingswhere, you know, I was 24 all of
my friends seemed to be workingat consulting firms or at
investment banks, and here I wasa journalist in the middle of
the sort of 2008 2009 economiccrash being like, I don't know
what I want to do. So it was avery strange spot to be in, not
what I had hoped, necessarily,but then, honestly, it was just
(02:40):
open to what came next. So Imoved back from New York to San
Francisco. I lived in my parentshouse for a while. I started
writing for a blog calledVenture Beat, which, at the
time, was right up there withsort of Tech Crunch and Giga
home and like the big tech pressboom, I was like, I'm just gonna
write about things that I findreally interesting, and at the
(03:03):
time, that was climate and greentechnology. So I really just
kind of shut down, retooled,relied on friends who worked at
VentureBeat already to helpusher me in. And then about two
years into doing that, I waswriting about Tesla Motors all
the time, like truly, all thetime, and I got an outreach from
(03:24):
the Head of Marketing andCommunications at the time,
saying, Would you be interestedin interviewing for this job on
our communications team? Andthat was the first time I had
really even thought about goingin that direction. So it really
was sort of a deus ex machina.
If there's a lesson in that,it's just like, be open to the
(03:47):
universe.
Erin Geiger (03:49):
Yeah, that's huge.
It's kind of funny. You say thatbecause I'm so deep into that
space right now. You know,reading all the books, listening
to the podcast, just about thatsort of like in flow state and
vibrational levels and, youknow, and all of that with the
universe too. So it's so funnythat just synchronicity, like,
be open to receive and be open,you know, to the universe. So
(04:10):
anyway, go on, yeah,
Unknown (04:13):
and not be so stuck on your self conception of like,
No, I am this type of person.
This is what I do, that youaren't open to evolution in
those ways. So I did gointerview for that job. I ended
up getting it, and that was sortof my first foray and jump into
marketing and communications,which was really the deep end of
the pool, because part of thatjob was, in fact, sitting to
(04:34):
Elon's right and making sure hehad all the data and facts and
figures at his fingertips whenhe spoke to publications like
Road and Track or wired, etc.
So, you know, that really got methinking about, how can my
writing skills be translatedinto some of these other career
choices? And that has led methrough now, obviously the role
(04:57):
of Tesla working at first roundcap. Middle where I had the
really good fortune of startingtheir content marketing program.
And then truly, it really wasthis thing where first round
happened to invest in a companycalled notion. So I got to know
the CEO very, very early on, andthat's what led me to be head of
marketing at notion, right thereat the very beginning, and build
(05:19):
out a lot of that early team andstrategy, and then, because I
worked at notion, and that endedup being this very classic sort
of roller coaster, but up intothe right journey for a startup,
I got the chance to then go backto venture, but this time on the
investing side. So that bringsus up to date.
Erin Geiger (05:40):
Not too long winded? No, it's such a cool,
cool story. So let's dig alittle bit. So wow, I didn't
realize that you were had thatexperience with Elon so early
on. That's so interesting.
Unknown (05:52):
I was 26 and kind of sitting there being like, wow,
this is how am I here? And howcan I not fail at this?
Erin Geiger (06:00):
Right? Yeah. How was it with him? We'll move on.
But I know people are going tobe like, Why didn't you ask her
more about that? So, but how wasit in that such early stages,
you know, of Elon Ness?
Unknown (06:17):
Yeah. I mean, this was 2010 so that's about three years
after he acquired Tesla andreally became the CEO, and then
decided, you know, it shouldn'tjust be the Roadster, it should
be this entire line of vehicles.
It was honestly the bestexperience that I could have
asked for when it came to like,just on the job training as a
young person, just how sharp andinformed and prepared you need
(06:39):
to be in every single situation.
I got thrown into a lot of sortof scenarios where I was like,
drive the Roadster up theeastern seaboard and stop along
the way and talk to journalistsand small towns, or go to Vegas
and be on the casino floor, likegiving people a walk around of
the car. It really did make meso much more adaptable. Um, and
(07:04):
Elon at that point in time. Imean, I can't speak to
necessarily anything after 2012but he really helped me out in
just terms of how exacting hewas, and I really appreciated
the example that he set foreverybody in terms of, like, we
need to choose a direction, andthen we're just going to attack
(07:25):
it with everything we've got.
Erin Geiger (07:27):
Okay? And do you, do you kind of subscribe to that
kind of leadership methodologyyourself?
Unknown (07:35):
Oh, interesting. I think that my approach is
different, but I think thatthere's no substitute for
clarity in terms of this iswhere we are all going together.
And here are the tactics thatare going to get us there. And
can we all make sure that we'realigned on those so that we can
(07:55):
move as one, like to me,shipping all of these sort of
electric cars, and electric carswas like a new concept the
world, being able to paint thatpicture for everybody, not just
externally, but also at thecompany around like this is what
the reality will look like whenwe do this. And here are the
actual things that need to getdone in order for this to be
(08:17):
possible. I do think that I tooksome leadership pointers away
from that.
Erin Geiger (08:23):
Okay, and I can only imagine moving from Tesla
to first round. I mean, it wasmaybe a jarring experience. It
just seems
Unknown (08:34):
like different, yes, well, it's interesting, because
I kind of got my start incontent marketing at Tesla,
where it wasn't just traditionalcomms, but there was a blog,
there was a newsletter, therewas the social media channels
that we were running. And so Ireally got kind of a buffet
overview of all the differenttypes of content channels that
are important for a marketingteam. And so that was what I
(08:59):
really saw as being consistentgoing to first round, and it it
honestly was such a heartwarmingtransition, in a way, because
the team at first round, thereare so high character and
mission driven to a largeextent, that I felt like, Oh, I
am still participating insomething that is making the
world a better place if Wesucceed. So that was kind of the
(09:22):
through line. And then I justwas so appreciative of all the
autonomy they gave me to reallycreate this content marketing
strategy, slash publication fromscratch.
Erin Geiger (09:33):
Yeah. And how did you go about that? You know, I'm
sure there's people, you know,listening, who maybe are on the
verge of taking something onwhere they're not replacing
somebody else, and they have tobuild out this world, you know.
So how did you kind of attack itthere, and maybe in other
experiences in your career aswell, where you come in and it's
like green
Unknown (09:52):
fields totally. And I think the cold start can be so
intimidating, right? So, likefirst step, I think. Give
yourself a ton of grace that,like, Okay, if it feels like
your brain is racing in all ofthese different directions and
you don't have, like, animmediate, clear conception of
what it is you want to do, like,that's okay and super normal,
(10:13):
and so just kind of let yourselfsit with that discomfort. But
then, I think, like, the firstthing to always do is to define
your audience, like, truly, whois it out there that you need to
move in some direction? It's notjust like, oh, who are all the
people that are likely to payattention? It's the people who
you really want to create sometransformation in some way,
(10:34):
like, whether that is gettingthem to contact you about buying
something, whether that is themlearning something brand new
that they can then go apply. Butlike really trying to get as
specific as you can on thatdefinition of audience, and then
try to talk to as many of themthat fit that definition as
possible. Like, one of thethings that I did at first round
(10:56):
was figure out, you know, whichfounders would we ideally want
to replicate if we could havebeen like these were the folks,
where we would invest in themseveral times over. And what was
it that those people reallywanted? What was it that they
were missing in their everydaylives running these companies,
and almost all of them said somevariety of I would really love
to be able to have coffee withJeff Weiner or Stewart
(11:18):
Butterfield, or some of thesefolks who were really, I think,
in the limelight at that time asbeing really inspiring leaders.
And of course, most early stagefounders don't have access to
like go sit down with someonelike that. So my task really
was, how do you scale that typeof conversation and the value
(11:39):
that it might come out of it.
And that's how the review formatof just like, very deep,
tactical interviewing, came tobe, was, can I be a proxy for
the founder, asking these, like,very, very specific questions
and pulling these learnings outof these folks?
Erin Geiger (11:56):
Okay, no, it's so interesting. I know I love the
work that you, you've done atfirst round for sure, so and
then, as you kind of segued intonotion, tell us kind of about
that transition and the scale ofwhat you built at first rounded.
It kind of compound, you know,as notion was growing or, yeah,
(12:16):
talk
Unknown (12:16):
about that, yeah. Well, I took, I took some time off in
between first round and notion.
And I will just say to youraudience that if you can, I know
it's a privilege, but if you cantake any time off in between
things, I highly recommend doingit just to make sure that you're
sort of resetting your world alittle bit, and to take a breath
and to think about yourintentions for the next role.
(12:38):
But when I landed at notion, nomatter how much peace I had
tried to cultivate for myself,it was immediately very, very
scary, mostly because I wentfrom leading marketing at a
venture capital firm, which isso different, like at a venture
capital firm, your goal is tomaximize awareness of that
(12:58):
particular venture capital firmso that you have the opportunity
to work with the exceptionalpeople that you are able to meet
through that route at a companylike notion, or most companies,
you are trying to maximize youraudience in order to maximize
revenue, and truly just be like,How can I reach as many people
as possible and convince themthat this is something that they
(13:18):
Want and should spend money on.
And we were going from, youknow, factor of 1000s of people
to now, like many millions ofpeople that I was hoping to
convert in this way. And solanding there and identifying,
like, the first things to do,which were very different, like
content marketing, wasn't goingto be the reason that anyone
(13:40):
decided to use notion. And so itactually was not something that
I even brought onto the teamuntil, like, a year in. Instead,
it was more like, oh, peoplewant templates in order to
understand how they can usethis. They want community
because they want to cometogether and talk about what
they're building. So the firstthings that I ended up doing
(14:00):
were actually very antitheticalto what I had learned at first
round and were more like, how dowe start an ambassador program?
How do we get user education outthere into the field in a way
that doesn't feel heavy handed?
How can we make sure that ourdesign and like the web
experience and the brandexperience feels really cohesive
with the product? So yeah, I wasit was being comfortable, or
(14:23):
getting myself comfortable withbeing like, maybe nothing that I
did before is going to translateto this, and I'm gonna have to
figure
Erin Geiger (14:31):
it out. Yeah, that's which can be exciting and
scary all at the same time.
Unknown (14:35):
Yes, yes. And also you have that horrible feeling of
like, I hope that no one aroundme can tell that I don't really
know what I'm doing, let me see
Erin Geiger (14:45):
smoke and mirrors.
And so you mentioned kind ofbringing content marketing into
your organization about a yearin. So when you first came on,
like, how did you decide how tokind of structure the team
you're about? Building and whoto bring on first and all that.
Unknown (15:02):
Yeah. So definitely, the thing that was most asserted
about notion, like, the thingthat was the most obvious was
that people already, organicallywanted to be talking about it
like they were on Twitter, theywere on YouTube, they were on
Instagram, all being like, lookat what I build. Isn't this
cool? And there was, like ahandful of 20 of these people
who just kept popping up. So itbecame somewhat clear that if we
(15:25):
put these people together andhelped facilitate them
amplifying notion, then we wouldhave people on our own behalf
telling our story out there inthe world. And that was going to
be great. So actually, the veryfirst hire that I made to the
team has been Lang who has goneon to become, I think, one of
the most well recognized andEpic community leaders in the
entire industry. But he was theone that really started the
(15:47):
notion Ambassadors Program,which, over time, then turned
into multi hundreds of peoplevery attached to the product out
there, telling our story veryloudly on our behalf. Our
influencer program was born outof that all these people who now
teach notion courses or buildnotion templates, or like people
(16:10):
who now are selling likeconsulting services, all of that
that came out of the communitythat Ben built, and then also
figuring out, like, Okay, who?
Who is going to help me coverthe basics here when it comes to
like, an email onboardingseries, making sure that the
onboarding in the productactually was orienting people so
(16:32):
that they wouldn't immediatelybounce out of it. And was able
to work with a really talentedindividual named David Tibbetts,
who started on the customerexperience team, started before
me at notion, and then became aproduct marketer, sort of
overnight, and has now gone onto become the product marketing
(16:52):
lead for notion AI, which Ithink is like their tent pole
product. But that, to me, wasthis interesting learning
experience of, just like peoplehave all of these skills, can
you be creative and open mindedabout how those skills combine
in order to do something?
Erin Geiger (17:12):
Yeah, yeah. And because you were so early on in
notion, like, what was thegrowth trajectory like when you
left, like in, you know, whatwas that like bring, you know,
being like, at a company or suchearly stage and kind of bringing
it forward,
Unknown (17:30):
yeah. I mean, there's an interesting story that I had
the pleasure of working on withMolly Graham, who was the COO of
quip. She's one of these folksthat has just like, been a
leader early on at like Google,Facebook, extremely
knowledgeable now. She runs anorganization for coos. She and I
(17:51):
worked on the story togethercalled give away your Legos.
About what it feels like to beat a early stage startup, which
is, you know, you're buildingyour thing here, but then more
and more and more people arebeing hired, and you feel the
company expanding. And it reallydoes feel like you're being
pulled apart in a lot of ways,where, like the thing that you
used to do, the thing that youused to own, is now being split
(18:12):
into many little pieces andapportioned out to many more
people. And it can really feellike so disorienting. There's a
lot of anxiety involved in beinglike, no, but this was my job,
and if you hire more people,then aren't I going to lose my
job? And it makes the growthfeel just like, really hard,
(18:34):
honestly, to endure sometimes.
And I certainly fell prey tothat. I was like, Thank goodness
I helped write that story,because I at least went in eyes
open a little bit. But it canfeel like really, really intense
to just see the company growing.
Not have a direct line of sightto how you are going to scale
(18:55):
yourself, necessarily, but justbe like, if I put in these reps
or this energy, that I thinkI'll get there. But to anybody
who's in that experience rightnow, it is, it is incredibly
normal to just be feeling likekind of a generalized anxiety
without knowing where it'scoming from,
Erin Geiger (19:13):
yeah. And for a lot of people, it's, it's a
discovery, right? Because thensome people are like, Oh, I'm a
builder, you know, like, I Ilive in the building phase of a
company, and then I move on, youknow, to my next thing and
Unknown (19:27):
absolutely, and then certain things, like, you'll
pioneer certain programs, andthen that program will become
somewhat repetitious, you know,you'll be like, let's start
doing webinars. And now, notion,does, you know, multiple
webinars per week, and it's likea factory floor. And you do have
to know yourself really well inthat sense. And actually, when I
(19:48):
am helping people earlier intheir careers figure out, like
what they might want to do nextor what they should be pursuing,
I do put some emphasis on Do youknow what stage of person you
are? Because I think. It is likea very, very different
experience. And it's one ofthose things that feels very
core to people, in the sensethat if you misplace yourself
(20:09):
along that continuum, it canfeel like a wrong match pretty
fast.
Erin Geiger (20:13):
Yeah, for sure. And I think a lot of people don't
realize that going in,especially in the startup world,
you know, of like as the companychanges, you are may you may or
may not change with it, andthat's okay, you know,
Unknown (20:24):
yes, yes. And also, like, very much. So not allowing
that to be a value judgment onyourself, where, like, people
are constantly talking about,like, Oh, are you going to scale
with the growth of the company?
I mean, the growth the companyis going, like, almost vertical,
and like, people grow linearly,generally speaking. So unless
you really are putting, youknow, some superhuman effort
into it, which a lot of peopledo, but I think it's hard for
(20:47):
some people to be like, Oh, Ijust wasn't good enough. Or
there was this saying thatcreeped into my mind somewhere
along the line in my career,that was truly exceptional.
People can adapt to anyenvironment. And I just want to
share that like, I do not thinkthat that's true. I think you
can be truly exceptional andfind yourself at the wrong stage
(21:08):
or in the wrong company, andthat's okay, and not about your
count your talent,
Erin Geiger (21:16):
right? It's more about Okay. Where do you go from
here? You know, kind of a thing.
And so, and then you so, youwent from motion, you went back
to venture, right? So where youare now. And so, how was that
kind of transitioning? I feellike you've come for full
circle. Like, yeah, how is thattransitioning to venture? And
what, what do you love aboutwhat you're doing now? And what
do you see is your leadershipcapacity currently?
Unknown (21:42):
Yeah, I mean, one thing that I love about venture is
just the variety. So the jobthat I'm in now here at XYZ
venture capital, I'm one of fourpartners inside of a team of 13
people, and I just love how myjob is really all about meeting
incredibly brilliant people andtalking to them about new ideas,
(22:03):
like what a gift to be in thattype of role. And even when days
are hard, I try to center myselfwith the gratitude that that's
really the basis of what it isthat I do, and then the fact
that I do get to take all ofthis sort of like hard one
knowledge that I got from notionand observing so many companies
at first round, like all of thetough nights, all of like the
(22:26):
situations I did not know how tonavigate and bring what I
learned to bear for the foundersthat I work with now, so that
hopefully I can help themshortcut, or at least, like have
a better sense of what to do insome of the toughest spots of
the
Erin Geiger (22:42):
journey. Yeah, on that I can imagine like stakes
are probably pretty high, youknow, in some situations that
you find yourself in, yeah, how,how do you kind of push through?
And how is that kind of like,how is your decision making
process impacted? And how do youkind of ensure that, because you
(23:03):
are leading others through it aswell. So how do you kind of
navigate
Unknown (23:07):
that? Yeah, um, it's interesting. So one of the
favorite parts of my role, liketruly, one of the greatest gifts
that I've had here at XYZ, isthat I get to work really
closely with an associate herenamed Lucy Wilmot, and she is
several years out of Harvard.
She is one of the brightest,most brilliant people I've met
(23:27):
in my career. And I think thatpart of what you're asking is
like, how does the like, what myleadership sort of themes have
been, and how have they havelike, materialized here and in
the decision making is that it'sa really beautiful give and take
between us, as we are evaluatingcompanies now together, where
(23:49):
we're able to kind of figure itout with one another. Because I
am also very new at this, and sopart of the way that the
leadership shows up is just likebeing really self aware, and I
think that that is an underratedpart of leadership, and then
allowing that to provideopportunity for her to step in
(24:09):
and maybe do more than you wouldgenerally do in an associate
role at a lot of firms. I don'tknow if that answers the
Erin Geiger (24:20):
question, and it's, I think it's a great thing that
you brought up too, because Ithink a lot of times we can feel
like, especially as we're kindof taking on new leadership
roles or kind of growing in ourcareers, like, I got this, like,
I don't need help, I don't needsupport, like, I'm in my little
silo and I'm going to pushthrough, and I got it, you know,
(24:40):
and, Yeah, or, like,
Unknown (24:41):
this is my box of work, and then I'm portioning out a
piece of that, and this is yourlittle box of work that people
don't learn from each otherreally well when that's the
setting,
Erin Geiger (24:52):
right? So I think that's another great point that
you brought up. Is like, youknow, it's okay, you know,
collaboration, and if you. Seesomething in someone else that's
kind of like, share, you know,because we all grow together.
And I think that also speaks toeveryone has such a different
definition of success, right?
And it's like, some people mightbe like, Well, I'm successful if
(25:16):
I can accomplish something withzero help. It's like, totally, I
Unknown (25:21):
think a lot of I drove this, right? I drove this from
end to end,
Erin Geiger (25:26):
exactly. And so it's like, you know, I don't
know, do you kind of have nowthat you're further along in
your career, like, a vision ofwhat success looks like to you?
And kind of like, has thatchanged over time from years ago
to who you are now, today,
Unknown (25:42):
definitely. I mean, today, I really think it's about
enriching the people around youto the best of your ability,
right? So like helping themunderstand things, helping them
get the resources they need, ifI can, and being able to, like,
pass the ball to a lot ofpeople, and not feeling like I
(26:04):
have to hang on to it in orderto get the glory or the credit.
And I think that that is like avery classic learning experience
over the course of one's career,like I definitely remember
earlier on, like feeling verypassionately that my individual
work get acknowledged, and if itwasn't, then I would either
sulk, or I would, like, raise myhand and be like, that was me.
(26:28):
And I think somewhere in like,my early 30s, through the
examples of other leaders, etc,it really, for me, became about
like, how much of that creditcan I give away and be like it
really was all of these folksaround me, and that's what makes
me feel the most successful, isif I get to do that most of the
(26:48):
time. Yeah, I think that that'ssomething that I would just
offer to anybody who's sort ofearlier in their careers, that
people often think that theyhave to claim achievement in
order to get thatacknowledgement. But it really
isn't, isn't what you think itis.
Erin Geiger (27:09):
Yeah, no, that's huge. And there's so many people
that are still learning that.
And so, you know, that's a it'sactually as a huge kind of
growth mechanism, for sure, andit does make me think, like, as
a woman who's had all of theseleadership roles, like, one
after the other, and kind oflike, forging your path, what
you have, any like, sort ofunique challenges that you came
(27:33):
across, like, you know, youknow, in a lot of these are male
dominated fields as well, youknow that you've been In. And so
how have you, kind of, like, howhas it impacted your career?
Kind of, what challenges haveyou had to overcome, really?
Unknown (27:48):
Yeah, you know, I feel very fortunate in the sense that
I don't feel like gender isentered in that much to my
experience, like I've never feltlimited in a way where, like,
oh, I can't get that job, or Ican't get that project, or
something along those lines. Itshows up every now and again,
(28:09):
oddly now in my 40s or my late30s, where people ask me all the
time about, am I married? Do Ihave kids? Do I have a family of
my own? And there appears to besome judgment embedded in that
that, like all of a sudden, isimpacting my professional life.
And I am a single, childlesswoman, child free woman, I can
(28:33):
see how, and this is somethingthat I did not expect to come
up, but in this very strangesort of latter part of my career
that ending up being somethingthat feels like there is a
professional aspect to it that Ididn't anticipate. I know that's
a very odd thing to bring up,and it's a little bit different
than like the general like, howmight being a woman have shown
(28:56):
up in different ways, but incase anyone out there is also
experiencing that you'redefinitely not alone.
Erin Geiger (29:03):
No, I'm glad you brought that up, because it is
true. Like they're not askingyour male colleague, you know,
like, what Tell me about yourkids? You know, like that
probably would ever come. Youknow, a friend of mine, Laura
belgray, she's an incrediblewriter, and has this amazing
book out. It's called toughtitties.
Unknown (29:25):
Like, great title.
Erin Geiger (29:26):
You'd actually love it. It's, she grew up in New
York, and it's just incredible.
And so she, she is married, butthey decided not to have kiddos.
And so she was like, even withthe her book, she was like, I'm
writing this book. And peoplekept saying, like, oh, it's
like, birthing a baby. Like,your book. It's like, your book,
baby. And she was like, It's notmy baby, it's a book that I'm
writing. Why is everyone equatelike, I'm not a mom, like, I
(29:49):
just tell you, you know, it'slike, leave me alone. It's a
book. Excited about it, but I'mnot birthing a book, baby. I.
Unknown (30:00):
Totally It's interesting being on the venture
side too, just in case it isrelevant to anyone out there
that oftentimes you areevaluated on the basis of your
character, because these arelong term partnerships where
people want to make sure thatthey know exactly who they're
entering into a deal with, andthat has to do with like the
(30:20):
limited partners that decide toinvest in our fund that has to
do with the folks who I'mexcited to fund. And so there's
a lot of, like, personalquestions that get passed around
in those sort of decision makingprocesses. And I've seen this
come up more and more
Erin Geiger (30:37):
often. Yeah, that's interesting. And so when you're
kind of, you're dealing with somuch throughout the day, right?
Every day is different, probablyfor you. Is there anything that
you do that kind of helps yourmindset or, you know, kind of,
like, shifts the tone, eitherthe beginning of every day or
throughout, where you're like, Igotta, like, reset, you know, is
(30:57):
there anything that you kind ofdo,
Unknown (31:00):
yeah, yeah. I mean, I think a lot of us have that
moment at least once a day whereit's like, okay, literally, it
feels like I've spilled a bunchof marbles on the floor, and
they're all just like, runningin different directions now,
with all the different tasksthat I could do with this
moment, and I think at thosemoments it's very important to,
like, go take a walk, like,truly, because even if you sit
down and you're going to try toforce yourself to make a
(31:22):
priority, make a prioritizedlist, as all those marbles are
running away from you, like,it's not going to be good. So
like, go, like, look away from ascreen. Go, like, buy a beverage
that's, like, across the streetor something, and then come
back. And then I really do liketo make lists. So I and written
lists are very helpful to me forwhatever reason. I'm a
kinesthetic learner, so I justsort of start writing the things
(31:46):
that I don't want to forget,because so much of it can just
be like I have to remember, Ihave to remember, and then I'll
go through and I'll actually putnumbers next to them after I've
written them all down, okay, sothat I don't feel like I have to
write them down in a particularorder. It's really just about
externalizing and thenprioritizing, yeah, but yeah. I
think one of the biggestchallenges that I feel like, I'm
(32:08):
sure everybody talks about it,but also feels like nobody talks
about it, is just how much inour modern jobs we have to
remember do, like, hold in ourbrains, honestly, in order to to
get our jobs done,
Erin Geiger (32:23):
yeah, no, and it's huge, and I love that, that you
kind of, I just get everythingout. I'll just write everything
down. It doesn't have to be inany, some sort of, like, fancy
order or fashion or anything.
It's just you get it out, andthen after that, yeah, then you
can deal with prioritizing it.
Because I think that people upas well, you know, they're like,
Well, wait, what's this is, youknow, this is like, higher
priority than this, and then Ican, you know, and it's like,
(32:45):
no, no, just like, word vomit,get it all out. You know,
prioritize from there, yeah,totally. People up,
Unknown (32:52):
yeah. I think when we, like force, force, all of our
tasks into, like, these verylike, sort of hospital corners,
sort of systems,
Erin Geiger (33:00):
exactly, everything, yeah, everything's
in a bucket in a certain place,and it's, you know, and it's
just like, No stop.
Unknown (33:08):
It's okay to just, yeah, yeah. That's so funny.
Erin Geiger (33:14):
So is there any sort of, any sort of, like,
resource that has helped you,like, be it, like I mentioned
the book a little bit earlier,like a book, a podcast, or, you
know, a blog, or just like aleader that you follow, you know
that you'd want to, kind oflike, share with others might be
listening, that might help themout, you know, check out too,
and your leadership or careerjourney, really,
Unknown (33:35):
yeah, I mean, a book that made a profound impact on
me, and it's definitely, like,helpful for marketers, but I
think it'd be helpful for anyoneas play. Anyone is play bigger,
which is essentially like, hey,it's very easy to get into the
minutia of your day to day andbreak your job down into like,
these, these tasks. But how canyou make sure that you are
always keeping at least, like,one foot in the How can I how
(34:00):
can I do something reallyimpactful on like, a order of
magnitude above, like, just likethe sheer day to day of plowing
through one's email and not letgo of the idea in your career of
having that type of broaderimpact and being, like, quite
purposeful, I think is, like,really, really important for me,
(34:22):
and it's a book that I thinkreally helped enshrine that for
me, I'm really lucky to workaround people who I want to be
more like, and that was actuallyone of my decision making
criteria when I was decidingwhich firm would be interesting
to try this investing role atis, can I surround myself fully
(34:43):
with people like where? If Ibecome more like them, because
we spend so much time together,I would be a happy camper. And
one of my partners here is a guynamed Art Clark, and He most
recently was running AI and MLprograms at Apple. So very smart
guy and. The way that art runshis life is just like incredibly
(35:05):
thoughtful, and I've never seenanyone do it quite like it,
where he has OKRs across hispersonal life and his
professional life to make surethat he is investing in all the
things that he hopes will cometo fruition in certain ways,
within, like, five years, 10years every week on Sundays, art
has a meeting with himself thatis non negotiable that he always
(35:26):
has, where he goes through thenext two weeks and make sure
that everything feelsmanageable. He's not double
booked himself in any way, or hecan correct anything like that,
where he's setting hisintentions and making sure that
he is going to have the abilityto sort of revisit how he
performed against thoseintentions week after week. And
(35:47):
that, to me, is just like, blownmy mind open, and I can see how
it's, like, transformative overtime. So I just wanted to share
that with your listeners,because that's one of the things
that has made the biggest impacton me since I've taken this job,
Erin Geiger (36:01):
wow, that is huge.
Because, I mean, there's so manythings that you said there, you
know, that we could dive into,but the fact that, like so many
of us are just clawing our waytheir life, yeah,
Unknown (36:13):
just, please, let me get through this where, like,
somebody was like, you know, ifI had to be honest, like, I'm a
professional emailer like that.
If somebody were to watch me domy job, that's what they were to
do.
Erin Geiger (36:28):
I know it's like, I'm a professional meeting
attender and email, you know,email, exactly it's and it's
like, but just to stop and takethat broader look of like, okay,
but what else am I impacting bigpicture and and then I feel like
a lot of us are yes people like,okay, yeah, sure, I can take
that meeting. Oh, I'm doublebooked me. How do I figure this
out? You know? And so I lovethat He has this meeting with
(36:51):
himself, and he just makes sure,you know, because really, like,
our our physical and mentalhealth needs to come first, you
know. And like, make sure thatwe're not, you know, nothing's
too overwhelming, like we canfigure this out kind of a thing.
So I think that's a great,actually, thing that people
should add to their I was gonnaadd to their schedule to make
even more overwhelmed. But thisis like, check in with yourself
(37:12):
to make sure that that doesn'thappen. So thank you for sharing
that that's actually
Unknown (37:16):
super cool. Yeah, yeah.
And he's also been able it hashelped him do really incredible
things where it's like, I'mgoing to run this amount, I'm
going to write a novel on theside of my very demanding job, I
am going to not eat sugar,which, to me, feels
insurmountable, but it's asystem that just makes a lot of
those types of goals feel morerealistic. Yeah,
Erin Geiger (37:39):
for sure, it's been so amazing. Every time I talk to
you, I feel better abouteverything. So likewise, this is
such a great discussion. Wherecan people find you online if
they want to connect? Yeah,
Unknown (37:53):
I'm on Twitter. I'm just at Camille Ricketts, so
just exactly how it's sounds andspelled. I mean, I'm on there
quite a bit. I use Twittermostly to congratulate other
people on their accomplishments,because it feels like the best
venue for that, and I loveseeing what everybody else is up
to. And then LinkedIn as well.
I'm always excited to connect onLinkedIn. Okay,
Erin Geiger (38:16):
cool. We'll post those links, and I love that.
You also still call it Twitter.
I don't think I'll ever not callit Twitter.
Unknown (38:22):
Yes, used to sit next to Elon, still calling it
Twitter, refusing to dootherwise.
Erin Geiger (38:29):
I love it. Okay, so this is just a fun bonus
question that I ask everybody,and I might change it down the
line, but I've liked it for myfirst podcast, so I'm going with
it. We're such huge music headsover here. So I always ask if
there's only one music artistyou can listen to for the rest
of your life, who would it be?
Unknown (38:48):
I'm gonna say Paul Simon, mostly because I grew up
with Paul Simon, and he was myparents' favorite artist. And so
whenever I hear Graceland, thealbum in particular, I'm just
filled with all kinds ofmemories that make me quite
happy. Yeah, very
Erin Geiger (39:07):
cool, yay. Well, thank you for that. Yeah, some
people are like, that's such amean question. No idea.
Unknown (39:19):
Well, thank you for taking
Erin Geiger (39:20):
the time. Oh, mine, Beastie Boys. Oh, nice. Very
good. Yeah, go wrong with mymom's like, still, you still,
like,
Unknown (39:29):
you're like, Yeah, I'm the same person that I was.
Erin Geiger (39:33):
Like, you're not still seen anymore. What is your
deal? Like, yep, still, like,the beasties. But thank you
again for taking the time super,super fun as always, and you've
shared so many pieces of insightand advice that are going to be
so helpful. So I'm just supergrateful.
Unknown (39:50):
I'm so glad. Thank you for having me on this was really
great. Yeah.
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