October 14, 2025 • 45 mins
In this episode of Clover, I sit down with the incredible Erin Rich, VP of Trade Marketing & Communications at Paramount, for a conversation that feels like a time capsule of the tech, media, and entertainment worlds over the last three decades — and a masterclass in reinvention.
Erin takes us through her journey from the early Bay Area startup scene and the heyday of Yahoo and CNET, through mergers at CBS Interactive and ViacomCBS, to her current leadership role at Paramount. She shares how putting the user at the center has been her guiding thread, what it really means to “reinvent yourself” through industry shifts, and how she’s built influence in rooms where authority isn’t always guaranteed.
We also talk about:
- The iconic Yahoo billboard and what it symbolized for an entire era of innovation
- The early debates about mobile adoption (and why we were all wrong!)
- How Erin helped her teams “zag” during reorganizations by identifying unmet needs
- What it takes to lead through influence, not hierarchy
- Why mentoring across multi-generational teams matters more than ever
- Three myths women in leadership should stop believing
- The importance of learning to get comfortable being uncomfortable
Erin’s story is one of resilience, curiosity, and purpose — and her advice for women navigating leadership, change, and growth is refreshingly real.
You can connect with Erin on LinkedIn.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
Welcome everybody to the next episode of the clover
(00:04):
podcast, where we celebrate allthings women in leadership.
Today, we have the incredibleErin rich with us. Erin, thank
you so much for joining today.
Really, oh my gosh, I'm excitedto be here. And I love Aaron's,
the two Aarons. I know we'relike Aaron squared. You don't
really that.
(00:27):
And I will tell you, I'll tellthe listeners, like, how much
Aaron and I have fought to makethis happen.
We have had to schedule andreschedule this so many times,
and so we're both so over themoon that we're making it
happen.
So Aaron, currently your VP oftrade Marketing and
Communications at Paramount.
Currently paramount.
(00:49):
So tell us, I always love tojump into people's journeys, you
know, kind of how they got towhere they are today. So if you
wouldn't mind just taking takingus back. Oh my gosh, sure.
All right, so, so basically,I've been playing in this crazy
(01:11):
industry of the kind ofconvergence of tech, media and
entertainment for 30 years. Oh,what? 30
and but it's been incredible. Soreally, just lucky to be in the
Bay Area and so certainlystarted off my career in the in
the startup world before therewas even internet. Well, there
(01:33):
was internet. That's why therewere startups so kind of during
that time. So the crazy techworld, which then meshed into,
youknow, the development that you
saw with email communities andwhich formed Yahoo groups. And
everyone saw where all thatwent, then continued that
startup journey, focusing moreon tech, where I landed at CNET,
(01:55):
which Aaron you and I spent manyyears at,
and then, just with the techreviews and everything that CNET
did to make kind of tech easy,and
I don't know, streamlined in akind of a guide for consumers,
(02:15):
as everyone was figuring it out,And as it continued
to evolve, then mergers andacquisitions started right and
in this crazy world, so CNETbecoming CBS interactive, which
then became Viacom, CBS,and here I am today at Paramount
(02:37):
advertising. So it's been quitea journey to see. But what I
would say is that the threadthat's been super cool in doing
this for almost, I guess, threedecades now, is the
user always at the center.
Consumer journeys, how consumersand and just us as human beings,
(03:00):
how our patterns have changedover time, yet some of them kind
of stay the same.
You know, for example, everyonewatched TV, well now everyone's
just watching TV and contentdifferently. So to see that and
be a part of that,that evolution is super cool.
And to look back, it's like, allright, wow. And it still
(03:21):
continues, right? We're we'renot done. So
it's been awesome. Yeah, yeah,no, front row seat to all the
things. And I, whenever I meetsomeone similar to myself, like
yourself, where it's like wewere in the Bay Area for the.com
boom and bust. And like, all thethings, and seeing all the
(03:42):
changes. And you mentioned Yahoobriefly, and I remember there
was this amazing Yahoo billboardright by the Bay Bridge. Yeah,
it was there forever. Andit was like this, like, hallmark
of, like, just all the vibe,everything. And I remember when
they took it down, I forgot evenknow who they switched it with,
(04:02):
but it wasn't there anymore. AndI was just, oh, that's a change.
But what was super cool aboutthat is that billboard was
resurrected at Yahoo's presenceat Cannes lion, the creativity
conference this year. And I sawit on, you know, obviously I
wasn't there in person thisyear, but I saw it and I was
(04:24):
like, oh, there it is, you know.
And it brought that, broughtback such a nostalgic feeling of
just, I remember driving by thatevery day on highway 101,
down to Yahoo, and it's like, ohmy gosh, there it is. Yes,
talk about nostalgic brand andwhat, where they've taken it and
(04:46):
just reclaiming their space.
It's just been incredible. Infact, they're right upstairs in
the building I'm in. They have,they have, they have a San
Francisco office now, just rightabove, right above my head. Now,
Oh, that's right. Oh, circle.
It's.
Circle, that's awesome. Yeah, Iwould be, I would love to see
that that slide. It really didmean so much. And when I was
(05:08):
you're you also briefly touchedon, like, you know, kind of
people are consuming contentdifferently now and everything.
And I remember when we were atCNET, and this is before mobile
was a thing, right? So, like,dating myself, but, and I
remember, like, every quarter wewould have the conversation of
(05:28):
like, okay, are people going toadopt mobile is now the time are
we transitioning? Are wetransitioning to mobile ads? Are
we, you know? And I rememberhaving those conversations of
like, No, there's no way. Like,people are not going to have
this little thing. Watch theselittle things, like, it's not,
it's it's not going to happen,at least not yet, you know. But
those conversations were prettyconsistent, until finally, we
(05:49):
were like, Okay, this is, thisis going to happen. And now, I
mean, it's like, you rarelywatch TV, TV, you know? I think
everyone's just on theirdevices. My kids don't know,
really, networks, you know,they're more of like, What app
are they? Oh, absolutely,likewise. Yeah, it's so
interesting. So your career hasspanned so many different
(06:12):
facets, right? So it's likeoperations, partnerships, like,
you know, in all strategicroles, across the gamut,
startups, major brands. I mean,you just named, you know, quite
a few enterprise brands. Sotalking about your leadership
style, you know, like, how hasthat formed? It? Because you've
had to be almost like achameleon, and, you know,
throughout it's sort of adjustand shift throughout the
(06:35):
different acquisitions you'vebeen through and all the changes
in your career. So let's talk alittle bit about that. Yes, I
love the analogy of a of achameleon. That's definitely how
it felt sometimes, and that'sone of the things I was thinking
about before knowing you and Iwere going to talk about this.
There have been many moments,a handful of moments, in my
(06:59):
journey relevant to mergers andacquisitions I've been through
that have forced me to, notforced, but reinvent myself. And
the first time I did, it was soscary, like, Well, what do you
mean? I have to reinvent myself,and
what does that mean, and, youknow, there was just a, it's,
(07:22):
it's,I'm glad it happened early on in
my career, rather than, youknow, because that just was the
first time that happened. Itreally set the tone, or
developed, I guess, amuscle I didn't know you had to
have, especially as a afemale leader in this crazy
(07:45):
space where you're faced with,oh my gosh, there's so much
redundancy in my role now,trying to find trying to pivot,
trying to identify unmet needs,where can I fill a gap?
And it's, it's hard, but youknow, the more you do it, it's
(08:06):
like a muscle, right? The moreyou do it, and the more you're
able to flex, the moreit's, it's, it's inspiring to
find opportunities that youwouldn't have otherwise thought
were there. And while, in thebeginning, it might have been a
little painful to be forced todo that, I'm so glad that it
happened, because it's justopened the doors, or it's opened
(08:29):
the doors to other ways I can dowhat I do. I've never left a
marketing role, per se, amarketing strategy role,
but to identify different waysto do it
has been super exciting, youknow, and just to continue to
(08:50):
evolve in this, you know, longkind of marketing hat I've had,
but take it in differentdirections that I had never
really thought about before. Sothat's been super exciting for
me. Yeah, I mean, I bet now it'skind of like, second hat to you.
Oh, if something happens, it'slike, kind of like, Record
(09:10):
scratch, okay, now we're overhere. You're just like, okay,
you know? And it's like, now wejust now we're over here, and
now I can identifyopportunities, gaps, to fill in
this, in this area, right? Imean, is there? Can you think of
an example of where you've hadto have kind of, like, apply
those skills of just like, oh,thought we were doing this. Now
(09:33):
we're doing this, or this is ourpriority. Now, it's not right,
sure, I would say the the we'lljust kind of keep
it somewhat recent, when CBS andViacom merged and we we became
Viacom CBS,lo and behold, there was two
(09:53):
other departments that weredoing exactly what I was doing.
I.
Like, all right, this is cool.
How is this gonna work?
And so,you know, it was, it was clear
to me that therewas a ton of redundancy. And
(10:16):
knowing that Ijust, you know, discovered or
not discovered, but I would say,was looking for
a different way that we couldserve our
advertising, some of ouradvertising clients,
in new and different ways, aspart of, kind of like a trade
(10:37):
marketing role. And it's like,all right, if everyone's going
to zig over here, I'm going tozag over here. And so, you know,
one, one area that was somewhatup and coming was this notion of
which actually at the time, butnow you're seeing a lot of it
now, of more of social impactintegrated into into
(11:02):
advertising. So you know, we allknow that, obviously, with
millennials and Gen Z, that theycertainly, you know, right? We
all know that they prefer brandsthat are aligned with their with
their ownbeliefs and what they stand for,
and that there is some socialresponsibility and
accountability that brands have,and the consumers gravitate
(11:26):
toward that, that that'simportant to them, and so just
knowing that was kind of on theon the growth trajectory in that
area, focusing on, okay, how canwe help our clients connect? How
can we help ourour teams connect with their
(11:47):
clients beyond the bottom line,and so that was something of a
new kind of trade marketingstrategy that we did where our
agency partners could connectwith their agency clients based
on their social impactpriorities. And it was such an
eye opener for our salesorganization just to be able to
(12:11):
connect on that level thatthey've never done before. You
know, imagine,you know, we're talking big. You
know, these are, like the bighold codes right of the of the
world, the publicists, etc, andthe omnicoms, but to be able to
connect with them, with what'smost important to their
employees. Their employees areour clients, you know what I
mean? And so it was such a neatexperience, and that just kind
(12:34):
of grew into a whole newstrategy that we have today. But
at the time for me,I just kind of clamored, not
clamored, but I just kind ofreally held on to that, because
it's like, All right, cool. Thisis just a different way that we
can do things, knowing full wellthat these other teams that are
doing similar work that I do aredoing this kind of trade
(12:55):
marketing work over here. That'scool. I'm going to kind of zag
over here and add to it in adifferent way. And so I think
that's a that's what I mean byjust finding,
finding unmet needs. And it justso happened to
(13:17):
to work, and we're still doingit today. And that was three,
four years ago that we did that,that we started that,
no, that's, that's huge. Iremember when,
when seeing that we might havebeen CBS at the time. We were
CBS at the time, acquiredclicker, and
(13:37):
I was, you know, leading tv.com,you know? And it was like, oh,
when we acquired TV platform,great work. So, yeah, very, very
similar. There, absolutely,yeah, that was fun. So,
(14:02):
so, so you're talking about, youknow, okay, kind of like
shifting your focus on, like,okay, we're still gonna do, you
know, this aspect of the job,but now we're gonna shift it,
and now you have to work maybewith different teams to kind of
get them to see things in adifferent way. So, yeah,
absolutely. So marketing andpartnerships, like, right? So
it's like, it's, it requires alot of cross functional
(14:24):
coordination, yeah, so, and thatwas a prime example, and so, and
I feel like it kind of goesright into this next question
of, like, leading teams, wheninfluence is kind of like over
authority, when you have to,like, kind of like influence,
ideas and impacts and teams whonormally wouldn't have driven in
that direction. So, you know,and they, you can use the same
(14:46):
example, if you like, but like,how were you able to kind of get
thatchange into motion and kind of
get buy in from stakeholders?
That's a great question.
And, you know, I would say,you know, working part of the
(15:07):
influence,well, it, it's, it's a two fold
answer. One is, I just kind ofstarted doing it quietly.
And at the same time,exploring that unmet need,
(15:30):
carrying people on the journeywith me. So it wasn't, it wasn't
a surprise. It wasn't like, thisis what we're you know, what
we're going to do is more like,hey,
let's try this out. What do youthink you know, really
getting people on board with theidea, and really focusing on the
(15:54):
why it matters to their businessand their clients, so making it
relevant to them. And you know,once you start putting some
context around it of what itmeans for their business, their
their relations, you know, we'retalking about a sales
organization, right? So this isall really focused on, hey, look
(16:16):
this. This is what it means todeepen your relations, and what
it could bring to your businessdown the line. And I think
keeping it super relevant, andtaking baby steps and doing one
little test at a time, and havethem witness it along with me of
(16:37):
Oh, wow. Okay, well, if thatworked over here, let's try it
over here, this whole CO and seewhat happens. And they're in
align with their priorities,which are a little bit
different. And so I think it'sjust a journey. You know, it's
not force fed. No one feels leftbehind.
You know, no one was puttingdown a gauntlet. It was just
more of like, Hey, I get you. Isee you. I know what you're
(17:01):
trying to do to move yourbusiness. IE, hey, salesperson,
andI'm with you on this journey.
Like, let's, let's do ittogether, you know. And I think
that goes, that goes a long way.
And listening, just listening,listen to people's feedback.
Take in, take in their, theirpurview. It's, it's their
business, it's their client.
Have them be part of it, youknow. And
(17:25):
it's just, just listen.
Amazing. How many people don'tlisten and and have it, and have
them and bring them along, youknow? Yeah, have them see under
the hood. What does it mean todo this partnership?
And then lo and behold, they'regoing to have ideas too. And so,
okay, cool. Now, now thatthey're sharing their ideas, now
(17:46):
you have them on board, rightand and then you just, and there
it goes, and it takes off. Soit's and it's still that, that
way today. And now those samesales teams come to me and like,
hey, you know I heard aboutthis, and this and this client
is really into this, and what doyou think? And, and now we have
an ongoing dialog about it, andit's so rewarding for everyone.
You know, it's, it's so it'sgreat. Yeah, I think just
(18:08):
bringing people on board,listening,
no surprises, and do ittogether, collaboration,
yeah, I love that, and you'vehad to lead through ambiguity so
much in your career. So wouldyou because media, of all
industries, I mean, so manyindustries are going through so
(18:31):
many change, changes and areevolving so quickly media, oh my
gosh. I mean, I feel like everyday it's
especially with AI, like, allthe things. So it's like, you
know, would you kind of applykind of like, those same
principles, you know, whenyou're kind of leading through
ambiguity, and you Yes, salesorganization, you still got the
(18:51):
targets to hit. So would youkind of like apply those same
principles, you think,absolutely and, you know, you
bring up such a you bring upsuch a good point. There is so
muchgoing on with AI. I mean, this
AI is, it's just a, you know,think about the Wild West when
the internet started, right?
(19:12):
There's, there are no standards,ton of players. Everyone's
jumping in. They want to be thefirst use mine. No, this one's
better. You know, it's just somuch noise and so much
confusion, and we're seeing itright now with AI and the white
collar jobs are going to betaken over and on and on. And
(19:36):
you know, now more than ever,it's so important to stick to
solid principles. Becollaborative. Listen, you know,
take it one step at a time. Whatare the user needs? What are the
client needs? You know, slow itdown, you know. And I think
(19:58):
it's a juxtaposition of.
So much,what's the word I'm looking for,
so much innovation and evolutionthat's happening so fast, and
that's needed. That is anecessary. It's a necessity,
absolutely. But there's alsoalways going to be the
foundational human elementthat's going to that's going to
drive, drive the AI strategy,drive everything. And so then,
(20:21):
if that human elements nevergoing to go away, right? You
still have to have thatcollaboration. You have to have
that ability to, you know,manage and work up and down all
levels of the organization. Noneof that is going to go away. And
so those principles still holdtrue, and that's what's going to
(20:45):
ground, in my opinion, you know,those same principles,
you know, are needed to groundall of the fast paced innovation
and evolution that's happening.
Yeah, I think that's so smart,you know, because honestly, it's
like, as all these newtechnologies and innovations
(21:05):
come about, if you go back tograssroots, you know, it still
applies. So I totally agree withyou. And so
what you kind of mentioned, likeGen Z and millennials and
everything, and so like, how doyou mentor
fast paced it's like, you know,especially for Gen Z marketers,
(21:29):
I feel like Millennials arealmost like, catch it up to us,
right? And so it's like they'relike, almost like, I won't say
they're us, because that'llstart a whole other discussion.
So, yeah.
So yeah, so like, how do youkind of, like, adapt your
approach for Gen Zmarketers or just in general
sales, just focus on your teamand all for your team. I'm sure
(21:49):
that you also mentor folks thataren't you know directly kind of
lined to you. How do you do thatin such, like, such a crazy
environment where things arechanging?
I'm so glad you brought that up.
Yes, and I'll add to that, yeah,exactly, Gen z's, etc, you know.
And so now you're talking aboutbasically, you know, multi
(22:12):
generational teams, right,needing to align and work
together and stay grounded in astate of fast paced innovation
and acceleration. And that'sthat is a big one. And,
(22:34):
you know, I'm in the middle ofit, right? I'm, I'm a 30 year
veteran. I, you know, I havepeople on my team where I'm 20
plus years their senior, andit's hard to I have a hard time
grasping that on some days. But,you know, like, how did that
happen?
(22:57):
But, but in general, it's beenso rewarding. And I think and
again, back to the sameprinciples. You know, even
though there are 20 years myjunior, everyone wants to be
heard. Everyone wants to have aseat at the table. You know,
everyone wants tohave their ideas be part of the
equation. And I think it's moreimportant than ever as a leader,
(23:20):
to really foster that kind ofteam culture that values
contributions and perspectivesfrom all generations. You know,
by just having that opencommunication, respect, empathy,
and just really harnessing theunique strengths and experiences
that each generation brings tothe table. You know, it's
(23:43):
it's just needed now more thanever, in my opinion, absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, I totally get that.
And I feel like I don't rememberthere being such a divide, or at
least so many discussions about,like, different generations,
like when we were younger. AndI'm like, I just didn't ever
think about baby boomers or, youknow, whatever, and sort of the
(24:04):
silent generation, like, it justwasn't a thing. And now, maybe
because it's the advent ofsocial and, you know, and
everything, but it's just like,we're we have our like, little
compartments of like, Gen X,millennials, Gen Z, of like,
where we fit and what we'reabout and how we react, right? I
find it hysterical thatI'm actually
(24:31):
so my children, Mattea andSimone, they're 12 and 13, so
they're Gen alphas, and I neverthought I would see the day that
I'm reading research about mychildren better understand like,
okay, what are their spendingbehaviors like, and how are they
influence brands like, Oh, myGod, it's kind of crazy.
(24:54):
Soas I like to ask this question
and son.
Some folks are like, I haven'treally, you know, being a woman
leadership. For some they'relike, haven't really noticed
anything which I'm like, wow.
Okay, that's progress, I guess,too, you know. But for others,
like, have you had any uniquechallenges as a woman in
(25:17):
leadership,you know? And then, like, how
have you, if you have it'seasier to lose yourself and all
of that and so and rather than,kind of, like, sticking to your
own principled approach to howyou you would do things. So can
we talk a little bit about that?
Like, has that impacted you atall in your your career?
(25:42):
Oh, yeah, yeah,I would say early on and it, you
know,happens a little bit here and
there. I mean, certainly not,not as often. But
yeah, I think I let's see,that's a good question.
(26:15):
Yes, I would say early on,especially in tech, right? Oh my
gosh,right, in startups, yeah, at the
time, so like the first threestartups I did, I mean, it was
literally80% you know, 80% men, 20% you
know women.
(26:39):
Andthere was this feeling of, oh my
gosh, I don't know all the,I don't know all the nuts and
bolts of, like, the intricaciesof the technology. And it was
like, this kind of, this, this,this, this geek, you know, this
kind of tech geek persona. Andyou had to be a male to have
that, have that persona, and ifyou didn't have that tech
(27:01):
geekness, you weren't going tomake it. You weren't going to
make the and,you know, it was very difficult
to break into,like, product and programming
roles, but more roles in, youknow, PR and, you know,
marketing, and itwas very apparent early on. Now,
(27:24):
obviously that's completelychanged, but I do looking back
and again, that was, you know,3025,
30 years ago, I do remember thatvery well. It's like, oh, I'm
not a tech geek, therefore I'mnot going to make it. And the
(27:44):
tech geeks are filled, you know,the male tech geeks are filling
the room, and there's no roomfor me, you know, I do remember
feeling that,but that, you know, that's
certainly changed. It alsochanged my
(28:06):
the realization that I needed tospeak up more. Because, you
know, at that time, you know, Ithink
there was some like, Well, gosh,if I just have my head down and
work hard and show my results,then the results will speak for
themselves. And but that's notthe case. You know? It's like,
(28:26):
oh, I need to I really need tohave a voice. I need to speak
up. And that's that. That hasnot been my strong suit
early in my career. I'm muchbetter about it now,
but it was that, that that wassomething of, you know, we
talked about, you know, you'reat those muscles. That was
(28:49):
another muscle I needed to flex.
And, you know, certainly I wishI would have started it a lot
sooner rather than later, butthat's okay. I'm doing it now,
but looking back then, itcertainly was much needed and
much more difficult to do.
Yes, yeah, less accepted forsure,
(29:10):
yes, yeah. And do you think thatthere's things that
companies get right or get wrongwhen Yes, you know, supporting
women in the workplace like,what have you seen or
experienced? Yeah, that's agreat question. And I was
thinking about this wrongin looking back, I would say,
(29:30):
and maybe I mean again, they'renot as much today, but
it's been a slow, a slow roll ofimprovement. I should say, I
think a lot of companiestend to focus on entry level or
pipeline hiring and initiativesversus
(29:55):
so it's like all this work toget women or to get, you know,
a.
To speed and these, you know,entry level, and, you know, kind
of early career. But then it'slike, well, what about, what
about the mid level? What aboutthe mid level, mid career women
who are now expected to do X, Yand Z, oh, and guess what? Now,
(30:18):
children are a plate now they'retaking care of their aging
parents now they're sandwichparents. What are they doing for
them?
And that is still a struggle.
And, and, and I just, I justknow it. I just know that
personally, being an olderparent,
and, you know, I'm a sandwichparent, right? I have 2/7
(30:39):
graders rising seventh graders,right dealt with my mom the
hospital for six months lastyear,
you know, and still had to keepeverything going and travel up
there and remote done. It'scrazy, so, but companies, I
mean, certainly, you know, Ithank goodness I'm going through
(31:01):
that now because I was very wellsupported. And there were
definitely some parameters inplace to from my, you know, from
from my team and my manager andeveryone here,
but I would, but I would havethat happen.
That was noteven now, like, you don't hear a
(31:21):
lot about initiatives aroundthat, you know, you hear a lot,
like you said, around attractingwomen to the organization,
right, and onboarding, and, youknow, all of that good stuff.
But you don't hear more aboutlike as they're continuing in
their careers. And you know, youknow. And you said Santa's
(31:44):
generation, aging parents stillraising kids, that sort of a
thing. So, yeah, yeah, it'sreal. Yeah, no, that's
interesting. You mentionedlearning that you have to speak
up for yourself and have yourvoice being heard, right, kind
of advocating for yourself,especially if you're the lone
woman. So what advice do yougive, like we were talking about
(32:05):
these rising women leaders,right? They may be earlier in
their careers, you know about,kind of owning their voice, and
you want them to lead withimpact, but it can be tough
still today in kind of like maledominated industry. So kind of,
what do you what do you whatadvice do you
have there? Do it early. Justkeep doing it over and over.
(32:27):
Because the more you do it, themore you're going to feel
confident about it, the easierit gets. You just have to get
over that.
There's a first for everything,and the first time is just so
hard, sweaty palms, whatever,you know, whatever you're
nervous. You're nervous, thisis, oh my gosh, being on the
other side of it is just I it'sjust, you know, and but what's
(32:51):
interesting is, I do think it'sa generational thing, you know.
I think,you know, millennials and Gen Z
women in the workforce are that,you know, it's just second
nature to them, right? So I dobelieve it is generationally,
generationally related, becausewe weren't taught or encouraged
(33:15):
to do that, right? And again, itjust was a muscle that needed to
be learned later. And I wouldjust tell any, you know, any up
and coming person, interns,people that are starting their
careers, or even even in, youknow, wherever they're at, is
(33:37):
juststart it early. Start doing it
early, and just get comfortable.
Get, you know what? Actually,just learn to get comfortable
being uncomfortable. Yeah, bestthing I could pass along, yeah,
learn to be uncomfortableand be okay with it all the
(33:58):
time,like, oh my gosh, this is so
nice, you know.
And I wish I would have had thatmindset early on, yeah, yeah.
And I feel like there's a lot ofstandards that women, especially
(34:20):
those that are up and coming intheir kind of leadership
journey, hold themselvesagainst, like, you know, break
that glass ceiling, get up thatladder, and they feel like their
careers are on this trajectoryof like a straight line, and if
they take a parallel role, ortake, you know, some time off,
(34:43):
then it's like, come behind, youknow, and I'm not doing it
right. So it's like, you canalmost call them like myths,
right? So it's just like, Whatdo you wish that kind of women
would stop believing or holdingthem?
Themselves accountable oragainst, you know, as they're
kind of building their, theirYes, I have three of them. I
(35:07):
thought about this.
I love it.
Number one,you know, myth is that you have
to have all the answers. Yeah,she's got to have them, right?
There's no room for bullshit.
You can't justpontificate randomly. You have
(35:27):
to have all the answers.
Number two, and I mentioned thisone earlier, is, if you are hard
enough, your results will speakfor themselves, right? And that
goes, you know, then the flipside to that is what we're
talking about earlier, is tohave to advocate for yourself
and just pull up a chair. Justmake sure you have that chair at
(35:50):
the table. And if it's notthere, then just pull up a
chair, just pick up the chairand put it at the table
yourself.
And a third one, which, I thinkit's still, it's still a tough
one is, you know, to berespective. You can't show any
vulnerability.
Got to be just,you have to be on it got to be
super, you know, buttoned up allthe time. Can't sway either way
(36:17):
or leave, leave room forquestion or of your authority,
or your intel you know, or yourcapability,
and so just that kind of notionof you can't show any
vulnerability. It's like, Well,okay, then, then, you know,
you're asking people that theycan't be true to themselves,
(36:39):
right? Right?
They can't be human, and theycan't be right.
I mean, how can I possibly gowrong?
So those are ones that stand outfor me. Yeah, no, those are
huge. You know, it's like analways having the right answers.
It's akin to like not beingblessed for help. You know,
(37:01):
figure it out on your own. Yes,God forbid if you ask for help,
right? And think about that,what that?
It's like, you can't ask forhelp yet.
You'rehaving to keep all the balls in
the air as a sandwich parent,you know, it's like, what?
Really, I can't I'm gonna getdinged if I raise my hand and
(37:24):
say, It's too much. Or, Hey, canI get some support here? You
know? Yeah. So, yeah, it's real.
It is real.
Okay, as we I've so enjoyedthis. So I just have one or two
more questions, but I could talkto you forever. It's so fun,
but as we kind of look ahead,yeah, what are you most excited
(37:46):
about, whether it's leadershipor personal or professional,
like, what? What's kind ofgetting you going? Oh, wow,
that's such a great question.
Um, you know, it's, I think, andI'm, I was thinking about this,
(38:07):
you know, I've been doing thisfor 30 years, and
I am actually excited for,really, for just about where
things are headed.
I have no intention on slowingdown. You know, most, most of my
circle, is thinking about, youknow, retiring in the next five
(38:30):
years. And I'm thinking whatthat sounds so boring. Why would
I want to do that? And I justcan't even imagine, like, that's
just not part of my it's justnot part of my equation right
now. But which, you know, whichis fine, because I think there's
so much happening,the innovation that's continuing
(38:53):
to happen. I'm super curiouswhere things are headed with AI,
because it will impact, youknow, all of our lives in one
way or another.
I'm excited about the continuinginnovation just right here in
our backyard as I sit in themiddle of you know this, you
(39:15):
know, this merger, like withSkydance and Paramount,
and what that means for us. Yousee it across other parts of the
industry.
It's scary, but I think it'sreally just where things need to
go and where the industry isheaded and how it needs to
(39:36):
change and evolvebased on just how what people
are doing and how people dothings now, right in their day
to day. And it's super cool tobe a part of that. And it's,
it's not done. So like, allright, I'm, I'm in, I'm in for
the long haul. Even though I'vealready been in for the long
haul. Long Haul,you're in for the longer haul.
(40:02):
I love it.
So a question I ask everybody,because, like we are music heads
over here, is, if you couldlisten to only one music artist
for the rest of your life, whowould it be? Oh, I know it's
kind of mean,one music artist, yeah, oh
(40:29):
my gosh. That's a greatquestion.
Okay, let me try and get it downto just a couple real quick in
my headthat I've been listening to.
Oh my gosh, I'm gonna sound soPoppy. That's all right, all of
my answers are so pop music. Gofor it. We need pop and
(41:02):
I this question that you'reasking since you said at the
epicenter of music in Austin,right? No, or she's gonna ask
that. I should have had ananswer.
You can name one that you'relistening to now and then, one
that's just a perennial favoritethat you've always listened
Yeah. Okay, all right, I'm gonnahave to say it Taylor Swift,
(41:23):
only because that's all right.
She has some good songs, youknow, and I say that,
and I know she's super poppy andshe, you know, you either love
her or you hate her, but I haveto say, as a mother, I took
Simone to see Taylor Swift atSoFi Stadium in LA for her 10th
birthday. This is just yearsago, on August 3. It was the
(41:48):
last night in LA,and I, you know,
to see generations of womenthere
rally. It was, you know, rallyaround this music artist and
this music artist who arebringing these generations
together.
I have to say it was superempowering, and I think she's
(42:11):
done a phenomenal job ofclaiming her art
being her own boss.
You know, this is beyond thelyrics and beyond the the, you
know, catchy songs. It's justwhat she represents. I think
it's great. You know, you canlove her, hate her, but you got
(42:31):
to give her credit. Yeah, whatshe's what she's done, and I
find it super impressive. And ifyou sit,
if you sit and slow down andread her lyrics, like, buy an
album, sit in front of the fire,have a glass of wine, read the
lyrics. It's pretty it's prettyimpressive. Yeah, you know the
(42:56):
deepness of her lyrics. She's anincredible lyricist, and I think
people forget that, like, yeah,the songs can be irritating, but
just read the lyrics, you know,it's, it's,
it's impressive, yeah, at thatof what she represents
holistically, right? No, I agreewith you. I mean, you cannot
deny the what she has built andhow she has built. It seems to
(43:20):
be with integrity, you know, soI 100% agree, and some of the
songs are damn catchy, likeit doesn't help that I have to
hear it in my householdmultiple times a day. So so
maybe I've been brainwashed toanswer that question,
(43:40):
like Taylor Swiftby my gent child,
I have a 13 year old as well,but he's a boy, so there's not
and he's not. Oh see, yeah, myboy just Matteo, just turned 13,
and oh my gosh, I That poor kid.
I feel so bad. He just puts onhis headphones and listens to
his jamming, anime, crazy music.
(44:03):
Yeah, two of them are playingtheir music. Whoa,
two different I take the dog forthe walk. At that point, you're
like, I'm out.
Well, thank you again for takingthe time. I'm glad we made it
such an honor and such apleasure. And I thoroughly
(44:25):
enjoyed it. Enjoyed ourconversation. It means a lot
Yeah, meaningYes, of course, of course. And
yeah, well, we'll keep eachother posted on, like, what's
going on next, with what we'reall you know, kind of navigating
and absolutely, yeah, and thenwe'll include your info. People
want to connect with you online.
(44:45):
Where should they go?
Oh, they can just go to myLinkedIn. Erin rich, yeah,
absolutely, always available onLinkedIn. Yeah, awesome. Well,
we'll include that in the shownotes. But alright, thank you
again. Erin.
This is an oh my gosh, thankyou. I appreciate all right,
we'll do it again. Take care.
You too. Bye.
Welcome everybody to the next episode of the clover
(00:04):
podcast, where we celebrate allthings women in leadership.
Today, we have the incredibleErin rich with us. Erin, thank
you so much for joining today.
Really, oh my gosh, I'm excitedto be here. And I love Aaron's,
the two Aarons. I know we'relike Aaron squared. You don't
really that.
(00:27):
And I will tell you, I'll tellthe listeners, like, how much
Aaron and I have fought to makethis happen.
We have had to schedule andreschedule this so many times,
and so we're both so over themoon that we're making it
happen.
So Aaron, currently your VP oftrade Marketing and
Communications at Paramount.
Currently paramount.
(00:49):
So tell us, I always love tojump into people's journeys, you
know, kind of how they got towhere they are today. So if you
wouldn't mind just taking takingus back. Oh my gosh, sure.
All right, so, so basically,I've been playing in this crazy
(01:11):
industry of the kind ofconvergence of tech, media and
entertainment for 30 years. Oh,what? 30
and but it's been incredible. Soreally, just lucky to be in the
Bay Area and so certainlystarted off my career in the in
the startup world before therewas even internet. Well, there
(01:33):
was internet. That's why therewere startups so kind of during
that time. So the crazy techworld, which then meshed into,
youknow, the development that you
saw with email communities andwhich formed Yahoo groups. And
everyone saw where all thatwent, then continued that
startup journey, focusing moreon tech, where I landed at CNET,
(01:55):
which Aaron you and I spent manyyears at,
and then, just with the techreviews and everything that CNET
did to make kind of tech easy,and
I don't know, streamlined in akind of a guide for consumers,
(02:15):
as everyone was figuring it out,And as it continued
to evolve, then mergers andacquisitions started right and
in this crazy world, so CNETbecoming CBS interactive, which
then became Viacom, CBS,and here I am today at Paramount
(02:37):
advertising. So it's been quitea journey to see. But what I
would say is that the threadthat's been super cool in doing
this for almost, I guess, threedecades now, is the
user always at the center.
Consumer journeys, how consumersand and just us as human beings,
(03:00):
how our patterns have changedover time, yet some of them kind
of stay the same.
You know, for example, everyonewatched TV, well now everyone's
just watching TV and contentdifferently. So to see that and
be a part of that,that evolution is super cool.
And to look back, it's like, allright, wow. And it still
(03:21):
continues, right? We're we'renot done. So
it's been awesome. Yeah, yeah,no, front row seat to all the
things. And I, whenever I meetsomeone similar to myself, like
yourself, where it's like wewere in the Bay Area for the.com
boom and bust. And like, all thethings, and seeing all the
(03:42):
changes. And you mentioned Yahoobriefly, and I remember there
was this amazing Yahoo billboardright by the Bay Bridge. Yeah,
it was there forever. Andit was like this, like, hallmark
of, like, just all the vibe,everything. And I remember when
they took it down, I forgot evenknow who they switched it with,
(04:02):
but it wasn't there anymore. AndI was just, oh, that's a change.
But what was super cool aboutthat is that billboard was
resurrected at Yahoo's presenceat Cannes lion, the creativity
conference this year. And I sawit on, you know, obviously I
wasn't there in person thisyear, but I saw it and I was
(04:24):
like, oh, there it is, you know.
And it brought that, broughtback such a nostalgic feeling of
just, I remember driving by thatevery day on highway 101,
down to Yahoo, and it's like, ohmy gosh, there it is. Yes,
talk about nostalgic brand andwhat, where they've taken it and
(04:46):
just reclaiming their space.
It's just been incredible. Infact, they're right upstairs in
the building I'm in. They have,they have, they have a San
Francisco office now, just rightabove, right above my head. Now,
Oh, that's right. Oh, circle.
It's.
Circle, that's awesome. Yeah, Iwould be, I would love to see
that that slide. It really didmean so much. And when I was
(05:08):
you're you also briefly touchedon, like, you know, kind of
people are consuming contentdifferently now and everything.
And I remember when we were atCNET, and this is before mobile
was a thing, right? So, like,dating myself, but, and I
remember, like, every quarter wewould have the conversation of
(05:28):
like, okay, are people going toadopt mobile is now the time are
we transitioning? Are wetransitioning to mobile ads? Are
we, you know? And I rememberhaving those conversations of
like, No, there's no way. Like,people are not going to have
this little thing. Watch theselittle things, like, it's not,
it's it's not going to happen,at least not yet, you know. But
those conversations were prettyconsistent, until finally, we
(05:49):
were like, Okay, this is, thisis going to happen. And now, I
mean, it's like, you rarelywatch TV, TV, you know? I think
everyone's just on theirdevices. My kids don't know,
really, networks, you know,they're more of like, What app
are they? Oh, absolutely,likewise. Yeah, it's so
interesting. So your career hasspanned so many different
(06:12):
facets, right? So it's likeoperations, partnerships, like,
you know, in all strategicroles, across the gamut,
startups, major brands. I mean,you just named, you know, quite
a few enterprise brands. Sotalking about your leadership
style, you know, like, how hasthat formed? It? Because you've
had to be almost like achameleon, and, you know,
throughout it's sort of adjustand shift throughout the
(06:35):
different acquisitions you'vebeen through and all the changes
in your career. So let's talk alittle bit about that. Yes, I
love the analogy of a of achameleon. That's definitely how
it felt sometimes, and that'sone of the things I was thinking
about before knowing you and Iwere going to talk about this.
There have been many moments,a handful of moments, in my
(06:59):
journey relevant to mergers andacquisitions I've been through
that have forced me to, notforced, but reinvent myself. And
the first time I did, it was soscary, like, Well, what do you
mean? I have to reinvent myself,and
what does that mean, and, youknow, there was just a, it's,
(07:22):
it's,I'm glad it happened early on in
my career, rather than, youknow, because that just was the
first time that happened. Itreally set the tone, or
developed, I guess, amuscle I didn't know you had to
have, especially as a afemale leader in this crazy
(07:45):
space where you're faced with,oh my gosh, there's so much
redundancy in my role now,trying to find trying to pivot,
trying to identify unmet needs,where can I fill a gap?
And it's, it's hard, but youknow, the more you do it, it's
(08:06):
like a muscle, right? The moreyou do it, and the more you're
able to flex, the moreit's, it's, it's inspiring to
find opportunities that youwouldn't have otherwise thought
were there. And while, in thebeginning, it might have been a
little painful to be forced todo that, I'm so glad that it
happened, because it's justopened the doors, or it's opened
(08:29):
the doors to other ways I can dowhat I do. I've never left a
marketing role, per se, amarketing strategy role,
but to identify different waysto do it
has been super exciting, youknow, and just to continue to
(08:50):
evolve in this, you know, longkind of marketing hat I've had,
but take it in differentdirections that I had never
really thought about before. Sothat's been super exciting for
me. Yeah, I mean, I bet now it'skind of like, second hat to you.
Oh, if something happens, it'slike, kind of like, Record
(09:10):
scratch, okay, now we're overhere. You're just like, okay,
you know? And it's like, now wejust now we're over here, and
now I can identifyopportunities, gaps, to fill in
this, in this area, right? Imean, is there? Can you think of
an example of where you've hadto have kind of, like, apply
those skills of just like, oh,thought we were doing this. Now
(09:33):
we're doing this, or this is ourpriority. Now, it's not right,
sure, I would say the the we'lljust kind of keep
it somewhat recent, when CBS andViacom merged and we we became
Viacom CBS,lo and behold, there was two
(09:53):
other departments that weredoing exactly what I was doing.
I.
Like, all right, this is cool.
How is this gonna work?
And so,you know, it was, it was clear
to me that therewas a ton of redundancy. And
(10:16):
knowing that Ijust, you know, discovered or
not discovered, but I would say,was looking for
a different way that we couldserve our
advertising, some of ouradvertising clients,
in new and different ways, aspart of, kind of like a trade
(10:37):
marketing role. And it's like,all right, if everyone's going
to zig over here, I'm going tozag over here. And so, you know,
one, one area that was somewhatup and coming was this notion of
which actually at the time, butnow you're seeing a lot of it
now, of more of social impactintegrated into into
(11:02):
advertising. So you know, we allknow that, obviously, with
millennials and Gen Z, that theycertainly, you know, right? We
all know that they prefer brandsthat are aligned with their with
their ownbeliefs and what they stand for,
and that there is some socialresponsibility and
accountability that brands have,and the consumers gravitate
(11:26):
toward that, that that'simportant to them, and so just
knowing that was kind of on theon the growth trajectory in that
area, focusing on, okay, how canwe help our clients connect? How
can we help ourour teams connect with their
(11:47):
clients beyond the bottom line,and so that was something of a
new kind of trade marketingstrategy that we did where our
agency partners could connectwith their agency clients based
on their social impactpriorities. And it was such an
eye opener for our salesorganization just to be able to
(12:11):
connect on that level thatthey've never done before. You
know, imagine,you know, we're talking big. You
know, these are, like the bighold codes right of the of the
world, the publicists, etc, andthe omnicoms, but to be able to
connect with them, with what'smost important to their
employees. Their employees areour clients, you know what I
mean? And so it was such a neatexperience, and that just kind
(12:34):
of grew into a whole newstrategy that we have today. But
at the time for me,I just kind of clamored, not
clamored, but I just kind ofreally held on to that, because
it's like, All right, cool. Thisis just a different way that we
can do things, knowing full wellthat these other teams that are
doing similar work that I do aredoing this kind of trade
(12:55):
marketing work over here. That'scool. I'm going to kind of zag
over here and add to it in adifferent way. And so I think
that's a that's what I mean byjust finding,
finding unmet needs. And it justso happened to
(13:17):
to work, and we're still doingit today. And that was three,
four years ago that we did that,that we started that,
no, that's, that's huge. Iremember when,
when seeing that we might havebeen CBS at the time. We were
CBS at the time, acquiredclicker, and
(13:37):
I was, you know, leading tv.com,you know? And it was like, oh,
when we acquired TV platform,great work. So, yeah, very, very
similar. There, absolutely,yeah, that was fun. So,
(14:02):
so, so you're talking about, youknow, okay, kind of like
shifting your focus on, like,okay, we're still gonna do, you
know, this aspect of the job,but now we're gonna shift it,
and now you have to work maybewith different teams to kind of
get them to see things in adifferent way. So, yeah,
absolutely. So marketing andpartnerships, like, right? So
it's like, it's, it requires alot of cross functional
(14:24):
coordination, yeah, so, and thatwas a prime example, and so, and
I feel like it kind of goesright into this next question
of, like, leading teams, wheninfluence is kind of like over
authority, when you have to,like, kind of like influence,
ideas and impacts and teams whonormally wouldn't have driven in
that direction. So, you know,and they, you can use the same
(14:46):
example, if you like, but like,how were you able to kind of get
thatchange into motion and kind of
get buy in from stakeholders?
That's a great question.
And, you know, I would say,you know, working part of the
(15:07):
influence,well, it, it's, it's a two fold
answer. One is, I just kind ofstarted doing it quietly.
And at the same time,exploring that unmet need,
(15:30):
carrying people on the journeywith me. So it wasn't, it wasn't
a surprise. It wasn't like, thisis what we're you know, what
we're going to do is more like,hey,
let's try this out. What do youthink you know, really
getting people on board with theidea, and really focusing on the
(15:54):
why it matters to their businessand their clients, so making it
relevant to them. And you know,once you start putting some
context around it of what itmeans for their business, their
their relations, you know, we'retalking about a sales
organization, right? So this isall really focused on, hey, look
(16:16):
this. This is what it means todeepen your relations, and what
it could bring to your businessdown the line. And I think
keeping it super relevant, andtaking baby steps and doing one
little test at a time, and havethem witness it along with me of
(16:37):
Oh, wow. Okay, well, if thatworked over here, let's try it
over here, this whole CO and seewhat happens. And they're in
align with their priorities,which are a little bit
different. And so I think it'sjust a journey. You know, it's
not force fed. No one feels leftbehind.
You know, no one was puttingdown a gauntlet. It was just
more of like, Hey, I get you. Isee you. I know what you're
(17:01):
trying to do to move yourbusiness. IE, hey, salesperson,
andI'm with you on this journey.
Like, let's, let's do ittogether, you know. And I think
that goes, that goes a long way.
And listening, just listening,listen to people's feedback.
Take in, take in their, theirpurview. It's, it's their
business, it's their client.
Have them be part of it, youknow. And
(17:25):
it's just, just listen.
Amazing. How many people don'tlisten and and have it, and have
them and bring them along, youknow? Yeah, have them see under
the hood. What does it mean todo this partnership?
And then lo and behold, they'regoing to have ideas too. And so,
okay, cool. Now, now thatthey're sharing their ideas, now
(17:46):
you have them on board, rightand and then you just, and there
it goes, and it takes off. Soit's and it's still that, that
way today. And now those samesales teams come to me and like,
hey, you know I heard aboutthis, and this and this client
is really into this, and what doyou think? And, and now we have
an ongoing dialog about it, andit's so rewarding for everyone.
You know, it's, it's so it'sgreat. Yeah, I think just
(18:08):
bringing people on board,listening,
no surprises, and do ittogether, collaboration,
yeah, I love that, and you'vehad to lead through ambiguity so
much in your career. So wouldyou because media, of all
industries, I mean, so manyindustries are going through so
(18:31):
many change, changes and areevolving so quickly media, oh my
gosh. I mean, I feel like everyday it's
especially with AI, like, allthe things. So it's like, you
know, would you kind of applykind of like, those same
principles, you know, whenyou're kind of leading through
ambiguity, and you Yes, salesorganization, you still got the
(18:51):
targets to hit. So would youkind of like apply those same
principles, you think,absolutely and, you know, you
bring up such a you bring upsuch a good point. There is so
muchgoing on with AI. I mean, this
AI is, it's just a, you know,think about the Wild West when
the internet started, right?
(19:12):
There's, there are no standards,ton of players. Everyone's
jumping in. They want to be thefirst use mine. No, this one's
better. You know, it's just somuch noise and so much
confusion, and we're seeing itright now with AI and the white
collar jobs are going to betaken over and on and on. And
(19:36):
you know, now more than ever,it's so important to stick to
solid principles. Becollaborative. Listen, you know,
take it one step at a time. Whatare the user needs? What are the
client needs? You know, slow itdown, you know. And I think
(19:58):
it's a juxtaposition of.
So much,what's the word I'm looking for,
so much innovation and evolutionthat's happening so fast, and
that's needed. That is anecessary. It's a necessity,
absolutely. But there's alsoalways going to be the
foundational human elementthat's going to that's going to
drive, drive the AI strategy,drive everything. And so then,
(20:21):
if that human elements nevergoing to go away, right? You
still have to have thatcollaboration. You have to have
that ability to, you know,manage and work up and down all
levels of the organization. Noneof that is going to go away. And
so those principles still holdtrue, and that's what's going to
(20:45):
ground, in my opinion, you know,those same principles,
you know, are needed to groundall of the fast paced innovation
and evolution that's happening.
Yeah, I think that's so smart,you know, because honestly, it's
like, as all these newtechnologies and innovations
(21:05):
come about, if you go back tograssroots, you know, it still
applies. So I totally agree withyou. And so
what you kind of mentioned, likeGen Z and millennials and
everything, and so like, how doyou mentor
fast paced it's like, you know,especially for Gen Z marketers,
(21:29):
I feel like Millennials arealmost like, catch it up to us,
right? And so it's like they'relike, almost like, I won't say
they're us, because that'llstart a whole other discussion.
So, yeah.
So yeah, so like, how do youkind of, like, adapt your
approach for Gen Zmarketers or just in general
sales, just focus on your teamand all for your team. I'm sure
(21:49):
that you also mentor folks thataren't you know directly kind of
lined to you. How do you do thatin such, like, such a crazy
environment where things arechanging?
I'm so glad you brought that up.
Yes, and I'll add to that, yeah,exactly, Gen z's, etc, you know.
And so now you're talking aboutbasically, you know, multi
(22:12):
generational teams, right,needing to align and work
together and stay grounded in astate of fast paced innovation
and acceleration. And that'sthat is a big one. And,
(22:34):
you know, I'm in the middle ofit, right? I'm, I'm a 30 year
veteran. I, you know, I havepeople on my team where I'm 20
plus years their senior, andit's hard to I have a hard time
grasping that on some days. But,you know, like, how did that
happen?
(22:57):
But, but in general, it's beenso rewarding. And I think and
again, back to the sameprinciples. You know, even
though there are 20 years myjunior, everyone wants to be
heard. Everyone wants to have aseat at the table. You know,
everyone wants tohave their ideas be part of the
equation. And I think it's moreimportant than ever as a leader,
(23:20):
to really foster that kind ofteam culture that values
contributions and perspectivesfrom all generations. You know,
by just having that opencommunication, respect, empathy,
and just really harnessing theunique strengths and experiences
that each generation brings tothe table. You know, it's
(23:43):
it's just needed now more thanever, in my opinion, absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, I totally get that.
And I feel like I don't rememberthere being such a divide, or at
least so many discussions about,like, different generations,
like when we were younger. AndI'm like, I just didn't ever
think about baby boomers or, youknow, whatever, and sort of the
(24:04):
silent generation, like, it justwasn't a thing. And now, maybe
because it's the advent ofsocial and, you know, and
everything, but it's just like,we're we have our like, little
compartments of like, Gen X,millennials, Gen Z, of like,
where we fit and what we'reabout and how we react, right? I
find it hysterical thatI'm actually
(24:31):
so my children, Mattea andSimone, they're 12 and 13, so
they're Gen alphas, and I neverthought I would see the day that
I'm reading research about mychildren better understand like,
okay, what are their spendingbehaviors like, and how are they
influence brands like, Oh, myGod, it's kind of crazy.
(24:54):
Soas I like to ask this question
and son.
Some folks are like, I haven'treally, you know, being a woman
leadership. For some they'relike, haven't really noticed
anything which I'm like, wow.
Okay, that's progress, I guess,too, you know. But for others,
like, have you had any uniquechallenges as a woman in
(25:17):
leadership,you know? And then, like, how
have you, if you have it'seasier to lose yourself and all
of that and so and rather than,kind of, like, sticking to your
own principled approach to howyou you would do things. So can
we talk a little bit about that?
Like, has that impacted you atall in your your career?
(25:42):
Oh, yeah, yeah,I would say early on and it, you
know,happens a little bit here and
there. I mean, certainly not,not as often. But
yeah, I think I let's see,that's a good question.
(26:15):
Yes, I would say early on,especially in tech, right? Oh my
gosh,right, in startups, yeah, at the
time, so like the first threestartups I did, I mean, it was
literally80% you know, 80% men, 20% you
know women.
(26:39):
Andthere was this feeling of, oh my
gosh, I don't know all the,I don't know all the nuts and
bolts of, like, the intricaciesof the technology. And it was
like, this kind of, this, this,this, this geek, you know, this
kind of tech geek persona. Andyou had to be a male to have
that, have that persona, and ifyou didn't have that tech
(27:01):
geekness, you weren't going tomake it. You weren't going to
make the and,you know, it was very difficult
to break into,like, product and programming
roles, but more roles in, youknow, PR and, you know,
marketing, and itwas very apparent early on. Now,
(27:24):
obviously that's completelychanged, but I do looking back
and again, that was, you know,3025,
30 years ago, I do remember thatvery well. It's like, oh, I'm
not a tech geek, therefore I'mnot going to make it. And the
(27:44):
tech geeks are filled, you know,the male tech geeks are filling
the room, and there's no roomfor me, you know, I do remember
feeling that,but that, you know, that's
certainly changed. It alsochanged my
(28:06):
the realization that I needed tospeak up more. Because, you
know, at that time, you know, Ithink
there was some like, Well, gosh,if I just have my head down and
work hard and show my results,then the results will speak for
themselves. And but that's notthe case. You know? It's like,
(28:26):
oh, I need to I really need tohave a voice. I need to speak
up. And that's that. That hasnot been my strong suit
early in my career. I'm muchbetter about it now,
but it was that, that that wassomething of, you know, we
talked about, you know, you'reat those muscles. That was
(28:49):
another muscle I needed to flex.
And, you know, certainly I wishI would have started it a lot
sooner rather than later, butthat's okay. I'm doing it now,
but looking back then, itcertainly was much needed and
much more difficult to do.
Yes, yeah, less accepted forsure,
(29:10):
yes, yeah. And do you think thatthere's things that
companies get right or get wrongwhen Yes, you know, supporting
women in the workplace like,what have you seen or
experienced? Yeah, that's agreat question. And I was
thinking about this wrongin looking back, I would say,
(29:30):
and maybe I mean again, they'renot as much today, but
it's been a slow, a slow roll ofimprovement. I should say, I
think a lot of companiestend to focus on entry level or
pipeline hiring and initiativesversus
(29:55):
so it's like all this work toget women or to get, you know,
a.
To speed and these, you know,entry level, and, you know, kind
of early career. But then it'slike, well, what about, what
about the mid level? What aboutthe mid level, mid career women
who are now expected to do X, Yand Z, oh, and guess what? Now,
(30:18):
children are a plate now they'retaking care of their aging
parents now they're sandwichparents. What are they doing for
them?
And that is still a struggle.
And, and, and I just, I justknow it. I just know that
personally, being an olderparent,
and, you know, I'm a sandwichparent, right? I have 2/7
(30:39):
graders rising seventh graders,right dealt with my mom the
hospital for six months lastyear,
you know, and still had to keepeverything going and travel up
there and remote done. It'scrazy, so, but companies, I
mean, certainly, you know, Ithank goodness I'm going through
(31:01):
that now because I was very wellsupported. And there were
definitely some parameters inplace to from my, you know, from
from my team and my manager andeveryone here,
but I would, but I would havethat happen.
That was noteven now, like, you don't hear a
(31:21):
lot about initiatives aroundthat, you know, you hear a lot,
like you said, around attractingwomen to the organization,
right, and onboarding, and, youknow, all of that good stuff.
But you don't hear more aboutlike as they're continuing in
their careers. And you know, youknow. And you said Santa's
(31:44):
generation, aging parents stillraising kids, that sort of a
thing. So, yeah, yeah, it'sreal. Yeah, no, that's
interesting. You mentionedlearning that you have to speak
up for yourself and have yourvoice being heard, right, kind
of advocating for yourself,especially if you're the lone
woman. So what advice do yougive, like we were talking about
(32:05):
these rising women leaders,right? They may be earlier in
their careers, you know about,kind of owning their voice, and
you want them to lead withimpact, but it can be tough
still today in kind of like maledominated industry. So kind of,
what do you what do you whatadvice do you
have there? Do it early. Justkeep doing it over and over.
(32:27):
Because the more you do it, themore you're going to feel
confident about it, the easierit gets. You just have to get
over that.
There's a first for everything,and the first time is just so
hard, sweaty palms, whatever,you know, whatever you're
nervous. You're nervous, thisis, oh my gosh, being on the
other side of it is just I it'sjust, you know, and but what's
(32:51):
interesting is, I do think it'sa generational thing, you know.
I think,you know, millennials and Gen Z
women in the workforce are that,you know, it's just second
nature to them, right? So I dobelieve it is generationally,
generationally related, becausewe weren't taught or encouraged
(33:15):
to do that, right? And again, itjust was a muscle that needed to
be learned later. And I wouldjust tell any, you know, any up
and coming person, interns,people that are starting their
careers, or even even in, youknow, wherever they're at, is
(33:37):
juststart it early. Start doing it
early, and just get comfortable.
Get, you know what? Actually,just learn to get comfortable
being uncomfortable. Yeah, bestthing I could pass along, yeah,
learn to be uncomfortableand be okay with it all the
(33:58):
time,like, oh my gosh, this is so
nice, you know.
And I wish I would have had thatmindset early on, yeah, yeah.
And I feel like there's a lot ofstandards that women, especially
(34:20):
those that are up and coming intheir kind of leadership
journey, hold themselvesagainst, like, you know, break
that glass ceiling, get up thatladder, and they feel like their
careers are on this trajectoryof like a straight line, and if
they take a parallel role, ortake, you know, some time off,
(34:43):
then it's like, come behind, youknow, and I'm not doing it
right. So it's like, you canalmost call them like myths,
right? So it's just like, Whatdo you wish that kind of women
would stop believing or holdingthem?
Themselves accountable oragainst, you know, as they're
kind of building their, theirYes, I have three of them. I
(35:07):
thought about this.
I love it.
Number one,you know, myth is that you have
to have all the answers. Yeah,she's got to have them, right?
There's no room for bullshit.
You can't justpontificate randomly. You have
(35:27):
to have all the answers.
Number two, and I mentioned thisone earlier, is, if you are hard
enough, your results will speakfor themselves, right? And that
goes, you know, then the flipside to that is what we're
talking about earlier, is tohave to advocate for yourself
and just pull up a chair. Justmake sure you have that chair at
(35:50):
the table. And if it's notthere, then just pull up a
chair, just pick up the chairand put it at the table
yourself.
And a third one, which, I thinkit's still, it's still a tough
one is, you know, to berespective. You can't show any
vulnerability.
Got to be just,you have to be on it got to be
super, you know, buttoned up allthe time. Can't sway either way
(36:17):
or leave, leave room forquestion or of your authority,
or your intel you know, or yourcapability,
and so just that kind of notionof you can't show any
vulnerability. It's like, Well,okay, then, then, you know,
you're asking people that theycan't be true to themselves,
(36:39):
right? Right?
They can't be human, and theycan't be right.
I mean, how can I possibly gowrong?
So those are ones that stand outfor me. Yeah, no, those are
huge. You know, it's like analways having the right answers.
It's akin to like not beingblessed for help. You know,
(37:01):
figure it out on your own. Yes,God forbid if you ask for help,
right? And think about that,what that?
It's like, you can't ask forhelp yet.
You'rehaving to keep all the balls in
the air as a sandwich parent,you know, it's like, what?
Really, I can't I'm gonna getdinged if I raise my hand and
(37:24):
say, It's too much. Or, Hey, canI get some support here? You
know? Yeah. So, yeah, it's real.
It is real.
Okay, as we I've so enjoyedthis. So I just have one or two
more questions, but I could talkto you forever. It's so fun,
but as we kind of look ahead,yeah, what are you most excited
(37:46):
about, whether it's leadershipor personal or professional,
like, what? What's kind ofgetting you going? Oh, wow,
that's such a great question.
Um, you know, it's, I think, andI'm, I was thinking about this,
(38:07):
you know, I've been doing thisfor 30 years, and
I am actually excited for,really, for just about where
things are headed.
I have no intention on slowingdown. You know, most, most of my
circle, is thinking about, youknow, retiring in the next five
(38:30):
years. And I'm thinking whatthat sounds so boring. Why would
I want to do that? And I justcan't even imagine, like, that's
just not part of my it's justnot part of my equation right
now. But which, you know, whichis fine, because I think there's
so much happening,the innovation that's continuing
(38:53):
to happen. I'm super curiouswhere things are headed with AI,
because it will impact, youknow, all of our lives in one
way or another.
I'm excited about the continuinginnovation just right here in
our backyard as I sit in themiddle of you know this, you
(39:15):
know, this merger, like withSkydance and Paramount,
and what that means for us. Yousee it across other parts of the
industry.
It's scary, but I think it'sreally just where things need to
go and where the industry isheaded and how it needs to
(39:36):
change and evolvebased on just how what people
are doing and how people dothings now, right in their day
to day. And it's super cool tobe a part of that. And it's,
it's not done. So like, allright, I'm, I'm in, I'm in for
the long haul. Even though I'vealready been in for the long
haul. Long Haul,you're in for the longer haul.
(40:02):
I love it.
So a question I ask everybody,because, like we are music heads
over here, is, if you couldlisten to only one music artist
for the rest of your life, whowould it be? Oh, I know it's
kind of mean,one music artist, yeah, oh
(40:29):
my gosh. That's a greatquestion.
Okay, let me try and get it downto just a couple real quick in
my headthat I've been listening to.
Oh my gosh, I'm gonna sound soPoppy. That's all right, all of
my answers are so pop music. Gofor it. We need pop and
(41:02):
I this question that you'reasking since you said at the
epicenter of music in Austin,right? No, or she's gonna ask
that. I should have had ananswer.
You can name one that you'relistening to now and then, one
that's just a perennial favoritethat you've always listened
Yeah. Okay, all right, I'm gonnahave to say it Taylor Swift,
(41:23):
only because that's all right.
She has some good songs, youknow, and I say that,
and I know she's super poppy andshe, you know, you either love
her or you hate her, but I haveto say, as a mother, I took
Simone to see Taylor Swift atSoFi Stadium in LA for her 10th
birthday. This is just yearsago, on August 3. It was the
(41:48):
last night in LA,and I, you know,
to see generations of womenthere
rally. It was, you know, rallyaround this music artist and
this music artist who arebringing these generations
together.
I have to say it was superempowering, and I think she's
(42:11):
done a phenomenal job ofclaiming her art
being her own boss.
You know, this is beyond thelyrics and beyond the the, you
know, catchy songs. It's justwhat she represents. I think
it's great. You know, you canlove her, hate her, but you got
(42:31):
to give her credit. Yeah, whatshe's what she's done, and I
find it super impressive. And ifyou sit,
if you sit and slow down andread her lyrics, like, buy an
album, sit in front of the fire,have a glass of wine, read the
lyrics. It's pretty it's prettyimpressive. Yeah, you know the
(42:56):
deepness of her lyrics. She's anincredible lyricist, and I think
people forget that, like, yeah,the songs can be irritating, but
just read the lyrics, you know,it's, it's,
it's impressive, yeah, at thatof what she represents
holistically, right? No, I agreewith you. I mean, you cannot
deny the what she has built andhow she has built. It seems to
(43:20):
be with integrity, you know, soI 100% agree, and some of the
songs are damn catchy, likeit doesn't help that I have to
hear it in my householdmultiple times a day. So so
maybe I've been brainwashed toanswer that question,
(43:40):
like Taylor Swiftby my gent child,
I have a 13 year old as well,but he's a boy, so there's not
and he's not. Oh see, yeah, myboy just Matteo, just turned 13,
and oh my gosh, I That poor kid.
I feel so bad. He just puts onhis headphones and listens to
his jamming, anime, crazy music.
(44:03):
Yeah, two of them are playingtheir music. Whoa,
two different I take the dog forthe walk. At that point, you're
like, I'm out.
Well, thank you again for takingthe time. I'm glad we made it
such an honor and such apleasure. And I thoroughly
(44:25):
enjoyed it. Enjoyed ourconversation. It means a lot
Yeah, meaningYes, of course, of course. And
yeah, well, we'll keep eachother posted on, like, what's
going on next, with what we'reall you know, kind of navigating
and absolutely, yeah, and thenwe'll include your info. People
want to connect with you online.
(44:45):
Where should they go?
Oh, they can just go to myLinkedIn. Erin rich, yeah,
absolutely, always available onLinkedIn. Yeah, awesome. Well,
we'll include that in the shownotes. But alright, thank you
again. Erin.
This is an oh my gosh, thankyou. I appreciate all right,
we'll do it again. Take care.
You too. Bye.
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