November 18, 2025 • 50 mins
In this episode of Clover, I get to catch up with my longtime friend and powerhouse media executive, Tracy Kaplan, and her “hodgepodge” career that turned out to be a masterclass in building a bold, non-linear path in media, tech, and podcasts.
Tracy walks us through her journey from WGBH and ABC News to CBS Interactive, SnappyTV, Twitter, TuneIn, Patreon, Tenderfoot TV, and now Courier Newsroom, all while launching her own company, Small But Mighty Media, and creating The 10 News, an award-winning news podcast for kids. Along the way, she shares how she spots the real inflection points in media (from mobile video to podcast subscriptions to now AI), builds durable partnerships with platforms like Apple and Spotify, and refuses to let imposter syndrome keep her from jumping into the next big thing.
We also dig into the business side: subscription models, monetization beyond ads, what actually grows a podcast audience, and how to lead high-pressure teams through constant change without burning everyone out.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- How to turn a “hodgepodge” career into a strategic advantage and deliberately collect the skills and experiences you’re missing instead of chasing a straight line.
- How to spot the next wave in media and tech by staying curious, observing real people’s behavior (hello, commuters watching video in Japan), and forcing yourself to experiment with new tools like AI before you feel “ready.”
- Practical ways to move into a new lane—before you’re an expert, including how Tracy taps her network, asks smart questions, and leverages subject-matter experts to fill her own gaps.
- A clear breakdown of podcast monetization today—ads, Apple/Spotify subscription channels, Patreon-style membership, and even donations and fiscal sponsorship—and how to think about diversifying your revenue so you’re not at the mercy of one market.
- How Tracy built and scaled The 10 News for kids, including the real origin story (NPR in the school pickup line + political ads on YouTube) and the tactics she used to secure high-caliber guests like Dr. Fauci.
- What makes a partnership last in a fickle industry, from being radically responsive and direct, to making every deal a “win-win” instead of a zero-sum transaction.
- Tracy’s leadership philosophy in high-pressure environments—how she pushes her team to grow while still rolling up her sleeves, taking on grunt work when needed, and making sure no one is left to fail alone.
- Hard-won career advice for women in media and podcasting, including why allies inside and outside your company matter, how to recognize when it’s time to leave a role you once loved, and why tearing other women down is a long-term losing strategy.
- Her big blue-sky vision for helping kids and families better understand the world—and why she dreams of a “domestic Peace Corps” style program that gets people outside their bubbles and into each other’s communities.
If you’ve ever worried that your career looks “messy” on paper, or felt behind on the latest shifts in media, this conversation will give you both a roadmap and a serious permission slip to build something beautifully non-traditional.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:10):
Hey everybody, welcome to the latest episode of clover,
our women in leadership podcastthis week, I have a very dear
friend of mine joining us, TracyKaplan, I was joking with her
before we started recording, andI'm like, I'm not going to ask
you what you're up to, because Iwant it in the episode. Because
what isn't she up to? I don'tknow. Like, every time I turn
(00:30):
around, she's like, launchingthis, leading this, like, Oh,
should I do a podcast show?
Sure. Like she's doing it all.
So Tracy, my listeners are soused to me being like, let's
jump right in. So what I love toask people is tell us kind of
like your origin story, like howyou know you started and how you
kind of made your way to whereyou are today. And I want to
(00:55):
tell our audience, like, buckleup, because this has got to be
quite the story with lots oftwists and turns. So Tracy, take
it away, sure, sure. And I doaffectionately refer to my
career as a hodgepodge. It'sinteresting because there was a
period of time, and I will getto my backstory, but there was a
period of time where, like, Iwas really insecure about that,
(01:18):
and now I've just totallyembraced it as, you know,
something that has made me who Iam, and kind of given me a lot
of opportunities over the years.
But I I started my career when,after I graduated college at
WGBH in Boston, prior to that,I'd done an internship at ABC
News and thought I was going tobe, you know, the next, like,
(01:40):
you know, news producer, butfor, you know, various reasons,
decided to go up to Bostoninstead.
I will admit that reason. I'mstill married to him, 2022,
years later.
But started at GBH in Boston,which was an amazing, place. I
(02:01):
mean, it was right at kind ofthis moment where they were
doing the digital transition andtrying to figure that all out,
and figuring out streaming andkind of how, how that was going
to work within the publicbroadcasting system. So just a
really, really cool time to bethere.
And then I left there. I wasthere for about seven years, and
(02:23):
I left there to go to businessschool at Yale. And after that,
was kind of looking and tryingto think, Well, I would love to
go to New York, but I can'tafford to live in New York, you
know, thanks, student loans.
And I knew I just was ready forsomething different than Boston.
(02:45):
My husband had grown up there.
He also was eager for somethingdifferent. And so we looked West
and we said, you know,we told all of our family that
we're East Coast based like, Oh,don't worry. This will be a
three to five year situation.
Then we'll be back.
We are now going on. Can't domath right now, but about 18
(03:05):
years a house and two kidslater, so I don't think we're
going anywhere. So came out,came out to San Francisco, and I
was super fortunate toget a role with CBS interactive
at the time, because, you know,you would really think about
them as either being LA or NewYork, but it turned out at the
time that their interactivegroup was really being led out
(03:27):
of San Francisco and so camecame out was working kind of a
civil Skunk Works team down inMenlo Park as We were trying to
figure out, what does it meanfor CBS to kind of go, go it
alone and not join Hulu. So I'maging myself here, but it's
(03:47):
crazy now that Hulu is goingaway, and this was like the very
early days of what is nowparamount, plus.
And then CBS bought all the CNETbrand, and I got the amazing
opportunity to meet you. So alsowas working with the tv.com team
(04:08):
on video distribution, and itwas, it was a fun ride. It was
definitely an interesting timeto be there. I apparently have
this like seven year thing,because after seven years of
being there,that's what I decided to move
on. I've always been kind ofthinking about, what are the
pieces that I don't have in mycareer? And so I was feeling
(04:33):
like I was really missing themobile, really mobile and video
and social, kind of those threebuckets together. So I actually
went to a video startup calledsnappy TV
that was doing real time videoclipping for social
distribution, so hitting allthose hitting all those points,
and then they were acquired byTwitter. So I ended up at
(04:56):
Twitter. And as I tell people,you know when I'm.
Doing my backstory. This was preElon Musk, very, very different
time. This was now 2014 2016 andreally came into the whole video
team at Twitter. So and we cango more into, like any
particular era. You know, I havemy own. Taylor Swift has much
(05:19):
better errors than I do, butfrom there, I call that my video
error was there for a coupleyears, and then, you know, I'm
a, I'm an audio lover at heart.
I love podcasts. I listen tothem. It's my it's my medium of
choice. And I really wanted toget into podcasting and audio.
(05:41):
So then I left to go to tune in.
Was running content, contentpartnerships there and then,
before I went out on my own, Igot an opportunity to join
Patreon, where I was workingdirectly with creators and
really helping them build theirmemberships, figure out what
subscription means in in themedia space,
(06:03):
and then left Patreon. Justbefore the pandemic happened, I
was doing some consulting workin the membership space with
supporting cast, which is agreat platform for private
feeds, and got a call from myfriend Donald Albright over at
(06:24):
tenderfoot, one of the biggestTrue Crime podcast companies,
and he said, Hey, you know, I'mtrying to figure out this
membership team, this membershipstuff. Could you
come over and help me out? Sostarted as a consulting gig with
him, and five years later turnedinto, you know, I was still
(06:44):
there, kind of basically actingas the GM for the company,
overseeing subscriptionmarketing, all of our
distribution efforts,resource management, with the
shows. So that that turned intoa very wild ride. And then
somewhere in there,I launched my own company, small
but mighty media that makespodcasts for kids. So my main
(07:06):
show, the 10 News, launched inSeptember of 2020 and Donald was
an EP. He helped me get the showoff the ground. So it was really
nice to have that support fromsomebody who knows the industry
so well, and since then, I havetwo other shows under my belt,
nature nerd, which is anexploration of nature in the
(07:28):
south, and then the weekly roar,which is little bit for the
younger set. And that's just allanimal news and kind of the vein
of Zootopia, where the host isLeland mcmain, a lion with a
suit behind a news desk, so thatthat's kind of my,
(07:51):
my side gig that I that I alsorefer to sometimes as my midlife
crisis. But I love it.
That's awesome. And then you'reworking with courier in capacity
right now too. Yes,yes. So that is present day. So
just back in April, I moved onfrom tenderfoot, still very
(08:12):
close. I was actually justtalking to someone before this
interview over there. ButI'm a news junkie at heart, and
I really wanted to get back tothat. And so an opportunity came
up with courier for folks whoaren't familiar with them.
Courier is a digital newsroom.
(08:34):
For the last six years, they'vehad state based newsrooms in
about 11 different states.
They're really, really committedto local journalism on the
ground. And then about two yearsago, they launched their
national brand, which just blewup on Tiktok and Instagram. And
so I saw it as a really greatopportunity to bring what I know
really well, which is sales andmonetization, into a company
(08:57):
that is really kind of doing thetwo things that I love,
supporting local news and makingsure that that's still viable
and growing, and then also justreaching people who have kind of
checked out of the thetraditional news sources. And so
there, I oversee their theirsales and distribution. Okay?
(09:21):
Very cool. I feel like it'salmost full circle, yeah, to the
newsroom. So, gosh, so muchexperience in such a wide range.
How it's kind of cool, because Ifeel like you were kind of at
the crossroads of so many, youknow, digital innovations,
right? And it's like, okay withthe video, with audio, with
(09:42):
podcast. And I do remember,like, when you and I were
together, totally dating us, butwe would have these
conversations of like, whenmobile was becoming a thing. And
I remember being in thesemeetings, and we're like, is
this the year, or is this thequarter where we need to figure
out our ad?
Ad Strategy for Mobile. And thenwe're like, No, not yet. People
(10:03):
are not watching things on theirphones. It's like, not time yet.
You know that it was just like,Oh, was it? It's crazy. I look
back, yeah. Then it flippedovernight, right? Yes, exactly.
And we're like, not yet. Oh,yes. Now. Okay, so how? So, how
did you kind of spot spotlightthat. Like, how did you figure
out, okay, now is the time tomove to this. Now it's the time
(10:23):
to move to that, you know, wasit just like, an innate interest
in yourself, or was it kind oflike, okay, I see this industry,
you know, that's about toexplode. I'm going to move over
there. Like, how, how did thatkind of all happen?
I would sayI'm just super curious. And I've
always been a big reader,and so when new technologies are
coming out, I'm kind of doing itnow with AI where I just I can't
(10:46):
learn enough good and bad,right? I'm I'm immersing myself.
And even though I certainly whenit comes to AI, I do not see it
as a replacement for theamazing, you know, creativeness
that human beings have. I'mactively, like, almost forcing
(11:07):
myself to use it because I don'twant to be left behind of where
it goes. So I've always had thatkind of, just like, innate
curiosity and wanting to makesure that I'm learning things.
And then I would say the otherpiece is just that, like, I
really enjoy being an observer.
(11:28):
So you know, to your point aboutthe video piece, I just remember
going to Japan and seeingeverybody on the subway there
was watching videos on theirphone, and that was about 10
years before we were doing ithere. And so just kind of
observing people, observing whatthey're doing. And you know, it
(11:49):
helps me now, actually, with,you know, we just launched the
sixth season of the 10 News andpeople ask me, like, Oh, where
do you get your ideas for a lotof the stories that you cover
and put in, I'm just, I'm payingattention to the questions and
the things that I'm seeingpeople ask, or the conversations
that I'm seeing people have tothink about, like, Okay, this is
(12:10):
where this conversation isheading. Or, Wow, I'm seeing
now, in my circles, thistechnology starting to be, you
know, adapted. And, you know,I'll joke like, I'm an old lady.
So at this point, or at leastlike, you know, I definitely,
there are times that I feel, youknow, I'm, won't say, an old
lady. I am a very comfortablemiddle aged woman. And so,
(12:35):
you know, but I like to jokethat, you know, I'm not a first
mover anymore, but at the pointthat I see something bubbling
up, you know, if I feel like Idon't really know it and
understand it, then that's akind of a pause for me of like,
okay, I need to, I need to carveout some time, and, you know,
not, not fall into the trap ofmy kids showing me everything I
(12:58):
know. Whenever that happens, I'mlike, No, I am not going to be
that person, like, I'm not goingto write to my child and be
like, explain this to me. Like,no, it's not.
No, it has happened. But I'mlike, it does happen. It does
happen. There's I will alsoadmit that I'm at a point now
where I only have so much brainspace for certain things
anymore. So there are thingsthat I've just decided to
(13:21):
delegate to my children. Yeah,no, that's smart. That's fair.
So another thing that youtouched on, that I want to kind
of dive into, is you're okay, soyou're curious, like, Okay, I
want to learn more about thesethings. And you just go, you
know? And you're like, Well, I'mgoing to jump in. Whereas I
think so many of us, and we wereactually, I was talking about
(13:41):
Cherie Werner, was on the show,and she is kind of like, the
connector for startups inAustin, and I was asking her
about women founders and allthat kind of things. And she's
like, I'm like, begging them topresent, to pitch, you know,
their ideas and all the things.
And we got to talking about howso many times as women, we're
kind of like, oh, well, we don'thave all the experience. We
don't check all the boxes, so wecan't do that right. Now, what I
(14:03):
love about you is that you'relike, F that, like, I'm
interested in it. I'm gonna hopright and so talk a little bit
about that, if you wouldn'tmind, of like, hey, I'm
interested in this. I don't havetons of knowledge on it, but I
know it's something I'minterested in. I want to learn
more about it, and it'ssomething I want to be involved
in. And that doesn't the lack offoundational knowledge or
(14:24):
mastering something does nothold you back, which I love. So
if you could just expand uponthat a little bit further, of
how you kind of tackle that inyour in your career,
and I'll be the first to say,like I have real imposter
syndrome. It is, it is aconstant battle to kind of tell
(14:44):
that voice to be quiet.
But I think the key thing that Ijust lean into a lot is I'm not
afraid toask questions and seek out help.
So going back to our.
Early days of knowing eachother.
You know, I was tasked withbeing the first Partner Manager
(15:06):
for this video product, productthat CBS was building, and
really be the person between thepartners that we needed to
develop deep relationships withand the product team that were
so busy and heads down justbuilding it. And I realized
really quickly that the only waythis was going to work is, was
if I could be able to speak allthe languages, so be able to
(15:30):
speak with the product team andthe engineers in a way that
that, you know, we couldcommunicate and they understood
what I was trying to do, andthen speak with the partners,
you know, with their languageand explain what we were trying
to do. And I knew nothing aboutRSS feed technology, but I have
(15:51):
a very smart husband who's anengineer, so and we had an hour
commute from Menlo Park back toSan Francisco. So we would get
in the car, and I would be like,Okay, today's class.
On RSS, go and, you know, I I'vealways done that of just who,
(16:12):
who can I reach out to? And Ialways make sure to return the
favor. If you're someone who hasgiven me advice or taken time to
explain something to me, I willalways do the same and make time
for you. But I think that's beenmy secret sauce is,
(16:33):
rather than shying away fromwhat I don't know, fully
embracing it and looking for thepeople who either can help me
fill my knowledge gap or that Icould bring together as as team
members to build somethingtogether. So going back to the
10 News I had never createdcontent myself. I don't put
(16:56):
myself out there. As you know,I'm not an educator, I'm not a
journalist, but I'm a damn goodproducer, and so that I knew
that I could bring the rightpeople together to get this off
the ground. And so I thinkthat's the other piece. Is like,
when you're looking at a sea ofthings that you don't know know
(17:16):
how to do, really lean into whatyou can do. And
there's also that adage thatpeople say of like, leading, you
know, saying you're like, leaninto your strengths and all
that. And I will say up to apoint where, sorry, I'll
start that again. You'll have toadd at this.
But you know where people, wherepeople are always trying to tell
(17:39):
you to, like, overcome yourweaknesses. I actually really
believe in leaning into yourstrengths, because ideally, that
will get to you, get you to apoint where you can hire for
your weaknesses. So you know,when I need an expert in
something and it's not somethingthat I know that I can get up to
speed fast enough there'samazing talent out there. I will
(18:01):
find someone that I can bring into then be that person and give
them the support that they needto be successful. Yeah, no,
that's so smart. I agree withthat, for sure. And even within
a certain niche, I feel likeyou're, you know, run the gamut
and like topics as well, right?
So when we look at the 10 News,when we look at, you know, you
(18:22):
know, the true crime, you know,podcast, I mean, such different
audiences, right? And so it'slike, how, how do you, how do
you come up with, like, okay,distribution and partnerships
for all of these things thatare, like, completely different,
you know? So how do you, how doyou manage that and kind of
navigate it? As you said, Youare a damn good producer, and,
(18:43):
you know, with that comespartnerships and distribution.
It's like, but these things donot, they're not the same at
all, you know. So kind of, howdo you manage that,
you know? So there's thisamazing woman, Susan McPherson,
who isa brilliant connector. She
actually wrote a book called TheArt of connecting.
(19:03):
Encourage everyone to read it,and I think I approach my work
with just that common of I wantto hear what people are doing
and try to figure out how toconnect the pieces to then make
it successful. So if it's truecrime or a kid show, I'm really
(19:28):
just unpacking like, is thisquality? Is this something that
is going to either educatesomeone, inspire them, engage
them, like the actual what it isI feel like can actually be
interchangeable, because it'sreally just about like, you
know, what is it? What does ittake to engage audiences, and
(19:53):
does this piece of content, ordoes this project that I'm
working on, does it have that?
Yeah, and how do you.
You grow the audience as well,like, so, two questions, two
parter. So what? What inspiredyou to create a show
specifically for kids, which, bythe way, when that show first
launched, attend youth, my kid,my kiddos were of the age, or it
(20:14):
was so perfect for them, youknow? So I was like, listen to
my friend Tracy show. It was sogreat. So, and you've, you've
gotten, like, I don't even know,like Lego, like Ashton, all
these amazing guests on it. Soyou know, first of all, what
inspired you to even launch ashow for kids? And then
secondly, like, How have yougrown it, and how have you kind
of gotten the word out, and areable to get such high caliber
(20:36):
guests that kids are actuallyinterested in
too? Yeah, I love, I lovetalking about our origin story.
It does feel like such adifferent time, especially
because my kids were eight and10 at the time, and now they're
13 and 15,but at the time, so I'd said I
was consulting, and it reallywas the first time I was home. I
(20:56):
i love my children, I love myfamily life. I also love to
work. And that's just, that'show I'm wired. And so I've
always had,you know, a lot of travel in the
jobs that I've done. And so thiswas a shift for me, where now I
was doing it was, it was beforethe lockdown of the pandemic,
(21:18):
but I was doing the everydaypickup at three o'clock, and I
listened to NPR at three o'clockand hearing kind of the stories
that they were covering, andbeing in the pickup line and
having to immediately turn itoff, because, you know, whoever
was programming, I lived in SanFrancisco, so whoever was
(21:40):
programming KQED was notthinking about that my children
were about to get in the car,and that they were covering a
topic that I was not prepared,as a parent, for them to
overhear and start to talkabout. So that was kind of the
first thing that was happening.
Was like realizing that now thatI was home in the afternoons
with the kids, like, you know,my current habit of just kind of
(22:02):
having my ear, you know, havingmy earbuds in and listening to
the afternoon news coveragewasn't fitting now and then, the
second thing that happened waswe went into lockdown. And, you
know, like most families, wewere just, you know, struggling
to survive with Zoom school,and, you know, the kids being on
(22:26):
screens. And I've always beenpretty involved. I mean, I used
to manage the CBS YouTuberelationship, so I used to be
pretty involved in kind ofpaying attention to what they
were watching on YouTube. Andone day we were sitting around,
and I asked them, I said, Do youknow who's running for the
Democratic primary? Becausethat's, that's where we were in,
(22:47):
in kind of the time of year. Andwithout missing a beat, they
both went, Mike, we'll get itdone. And no shade to Mike
Bloomberg, I don't know that herealized that he was capturing
the eight to 10 market with hiscampaign ads on YouTube.
But it was, it was thatrealization that here I've been
(23:07):
so focused on the content, Iwasn't even thinking about the
ads that they were seeing onthis platform, and that, you
know, political ads were kind ofshaping their view of the world
around them. So that's when Ireally just started talking to
parents,realizing that also with kids
being so disconnected from theirteachers, from their classmates,
(23:28):
that there was this real needhere for a show that families
could listen to together, thatwouldn't shy away from tough
topics, but also could be a showthat really felt like theirs,
and we actually, I got a teamtogether, and we piloted about,
I think it was like four to fiveepisodes that have never seen
(23:50):
the light of day, and it wasstrictly, it was just for us to
figure out the tone of The Show.
What do parents need? We sent itto a whole bunch of parents and
kids for their feedback, and itwas really just us workshopping.
You know, what is needed in thismoment? It was during Black
(24:13):
Lives Matter, during thepandemic shutdown. And so by the
time we officially launched inSeptember of 2020,
you know, we had a good sense ofwhat we wanted the show to be.
And, you know, even now, sixyears later, I'm still tweaking
it all the time, I bet, I bet.
Yeah, so how did you, how didyou grow it to what it was to
(24:33):
now? And, you know, like I said,you would you get really high
caliber guests to be on it, youknow, and everything
contributors. So talk a littlebit about that, like, how are
those, I mean, still growingyears, right? But how was that,
you know, from from then to now?
Yeah, I think it goes back tothat. I've just never been
(24:54):
afraid to ask and lean on myconnection. So a dear friend had
the connection to.
To Dr Fauci. And so this wasDecember of 2020,
and I just wasn't afraid to putit out there, because I figured,
worst case, he says no, and thebest case happened. It's one of
(25:15):
my favorite episodes. He cameon, and we had amassed a bunch
of questions from kids who askedhim, you know, we directly
played for him, the kidsquestions to respond to and and
to me that that's just such ahighlight, because I don't ever
pretend that I know what's in akid's head. So there are
definite times where I'll bethinking that they're worried
(25:39):
about something else, or theywant to ask something else to a
guest, and then what pops out isthe most earnest, Wonderful
question that I never as anadult could have put, you know,
put together. So those are myfavorite moments. But again,
you know, not being afraid toask and really showing that what
(26:00):
we are doing is meeting a need.
So whenever I ask a guest tocome on, I always send them
examples of the work that we'vedone. I'm fortunate at this
point that the show has wonawards, so other people have
validated the work that we'redoing. But I just, I really make
sure that any asks that I'mputting out there, it's not just
(26:21):
a like, Hey, you want to do thislike, I'm prepared with, here's
why we're asking you, here's whowe are, here's what this will
look like. So I just, I make ita very easy, yes, yeah, yeah.
That's great, you know. And kindof like, what they're going to
get out of it, and how they'regoing to impact and all of that,
rather than just like we'd loveto have you, yeah, no, right,
(26:42):
right, makes sense. So we talkeda little bit earlier. I mean,
you've launched subscriptionchannel models. I mean, you're a
lot of the programs are justthese top listed programs,
Apple, what have you podcasting.
It's changed, you know, sinceit's, you know, since it
started. And I'm curious on,like, kind of, like your take
(27:05):
and especially monetizationaround podcast, right? So I'm
curious kind of your take on,like, where it is now and where
it's headed podcasting ingeneral, as well as, like, the
monetization of it.
Yeah, when I was at tenderfoot,I had the privilege to be one of
the first partners in the Applechannel subscription program
(27:25):
that they were building. Andthat's always fun when, when you
have a partner who's like, Hey,I'm I'm building this thing, do
you want to be,you know, our first partner, and
you know you have to commit toit, knowing that things are
going to break all the time andexactly, but like, you're
learning together with apartner, which is, which is
always, always fun for me,and I really believe in kind of
(27:48):
choice for consumers. So whenI'm looking at monetization
options, and especially withsubscription, like, there's the
very transactional, like, Appleis super transactional.
A company like tenderfoot, likeyou don't get any data on who
those people are. People arejust signing up to get, you
(28:11):
know, a very discreet I get adfree episodes, or I get bonus
content. And then you have atthe other end of the spectrum,
companies like Patreon or,you know, areas where you can
kind of give someone a tip, andthat's very more like, I would
say, very more emotional,altruistic, like, you know, I
(28:33):
worked with a bunch of creatorswhen I was a Patreon who, you
know, had patrons who they nevercared, if they they never had
like access to any of thecontent they were getting. They
just wanted to give to make surethat that person could still
keep creating what they weredoing. So I always look at kind
of things on that spectrum, andthink about, you know, also as a
(28:55):
business, are you diversified?
So if the ad market softens, doyou have your membership base to
lean on? If we're in a periodwhere people are cutting back,
anyone who's running asubscription program will tell
you January and February are thescariest times of the year,
(29:16):
because that's when everyonekind of looks and decides like,
you know, I'm going to do mybudget for the year. Here are
the things that I'm going tocancel. And like, they usually
cancel in January, and then ithits in February. So, you know,
also thinking about like, youcan't just solely rely on
subscription to run yourbusiness, it's really healthy to
find something, you know, inbetween the 10 News, for
(29:39):
example, there, there really isnot a robust ad market in the
kids space. And so I fund thatthrough donations. So I
partnered with a fiscal sponsorwho who handles all of the
nonprofit reportingrequirements, you know, for me,
and works with me on that. And.
(30:00):
And that way people who want tosupport the show, who donate,
they can get their their taxdonation, their tax benefit for
supporting the show. And so thatthen there is another kind of
avenue for people to be thinkingabout, especially if you're
doing something in the nonprofitspace or the advocacy space, you
know, really looking at grantdollars and funds from
(30:23):
foundations that might be ableto support you. So that's kind
of how I look at it. Is likegive consumers the choice,
depending on if they feel morelike emotionally tied to you, or
just want the choice to be ableto pay to not have ads,
and then for where, for wherethe industry is going. That's a
(30:44):
tough one. Yeah.
Again, as somebody who loves thepower of audio, I'm a little
not just me, it's the rightword, but
you know, just I'm watchingwith, I'm watching the move into
everything has to be video. Youknow that every podcast now is
(31:06):
under such pressure for it to bea video podcast. You know, the
10 News, the team is fullyremote.
You know, I when I started, youknow, recording ads for the
show, because I have two cohosts, though, I just come in as
the, you know, sometimes I'mwritten in as the, the mean
producer character, or I'mrecording the ads. But like, you
(31:29):
know, I recorded, you know, inmy daughter's bunk bed with a
sheet. You know that that's notgoing to be on video. So, you
know, and I, I also truly lovethe connection that happens when
you're listening to someone'svoice, or when you're listening
to a storyand it's pure audio. So I hope
that, again, I love choice. Ilove having options, the
(31:52):
inclusivity of having options,but I hope that the kind of rush
to video doesn't mean thatpeople stop thinking about the
audio component and the richnessand the intimacy that comes from
audio. Yeah, I agree. It's it'sreally funny, because it's like,
(32:14):
okay, video is video is king,and everything has been video.
But there's still quite a fewlarge scale podcasts that are
sticking to their guns. They arelike, we are audio. This is
what, you know, yeah. And, youknow, I will say, when I listen
to podcasts, I'm not watchingthe video nine times out of 10,
even if there is a videocomponent, like I am running I'm
in my car, you know, that sortof a thing. And it really is
(32:37):
that that audio connection, likeeven Kelly Ripa has a podcast.
Let's talk off camera. Andshe's, it's off camera so they
don't, you know, and that's a,that's a perk for her guest, you
know, she had Oprah on, and shewas like, Yeah, I said yes,
because you're like, off camera.
Heck, yeah. Like, that's onelistening to worry about hair
makeup. You know, I think peoplecan be more organically
(33:00):
themselves. They're not worryingabout what they're looking like.
What is my background? You know,that kind of thing too. So
there's something to be said,you know, for audio, as you were
saying. And you know, inaddition to these big names that
you've you've gotten on yourpodcast like you've gotten, you
know, worked with and supportedand did partnerships with big
names in podcast land, likeSpotify Apple, I heart. I mean,
(33:24):
you name it, you've worked withthem in your own company. Small
but mighty media is goingstrong, right? So how, how do
you like, what makes for thatlike a truly, like, strong, long
term partnership in media?
Because it's such a fickleindustry, but I feel like you
figured it out, you know, andsomehow you forged these amazing
partnerships, and they've lastedquite a while. So, you know,
(33:47):
talk about that a little bit ofhow you've sort of navigated
that. Yeah, it's interesting,because
I'm as much as, like we'vetalked about my career and me
being willing to, you know, askanyone for help or reach out, I
(34:09):
will say the one thing that Ilike have shied away from, that
I'm pushing myself to do more,is actually things like this,
like putting my own name onthings. A lot of people in the
industry know me, but not frombeing like, Oh, she was the
speaker at that event. Like theyknow me for my work, which is,
(34:30):
which is a great thing to beknown for, and with that, they
know that I'm responsive,I'm direct. So if something's
not working, I'll be the firstto just say, hey, this isn't
working.
And they they know that I careand that I care about is this a
good partnership, that we'reboth getting something out of
(34:51):
it, rather than like a zero sumgame, but, but it is interesting
that, like I I'm at a point nowwhere I'm I'm starting to be
more.
Comfortable with putting myselfout there. And I think it's
just, you know, I now have theenergy to do that in a way that
I that I didn't before. But Ialways say that, just like, you
(35:12):
know, someone emails you like,email them back, you know, and
don't be afraid to pick up aphone call. And as tiring as it
is, I was inDC the last couple days, and
like, I just made a point toreach out to people that I
haven't seen in a while, andeven if it was just grabbing a
coffee, just really makingmaking time to stay connected to
people. And it's, it's not easy.
(35:35):
You have to be reallyintentional about it. But it's,
I think it's just so worth it.
Yeah, so it's all about therelationship, kind of like
building and nurturing thoserelationships. And so, like,
leadership wise, we talked abouthow you've created, you know,
you've built, you've managedthese teams, and, you know, you
did not pick a low pressurecareer. These are, like, high
(35:58):
pressure environment. So a lot,a lot of you know, things are on
the line. So what is yourphilosophy on leading people
through growth, through change,you know, my gosh, through the
pandemic. I mean, you've seen somuch change and so so much
growth in these industries, andinnovation change and all that.
So how do you kind of leadpeople through all of that,
(36:22):
I thinkI'm not afraid to roll up my
sleeves and do the grunt workwhen it needs to happen, like if
my team is underwater, I will bethe first to be right there
doing the work with them. Andi i Maybe, maybe that's not
always the right thing. I don'tknow. Maybe it runs counter to,
(36:44):
like management, like managementbooks, but you know, I, and I'll
say, you know, in a way that'snot like, you know, only when
everybody is struggling andneeds and needs to know that
they're not alone.
Because the idea really try togive my, anyone who's worked for
(37:07):
me, you know, visibility,opportunities for growth.
You know, really like, and I'llsay, like, sometimes I'm not
easy. Like, I push, and I pushfor a reason, because I'll see
in a team member. Like, no, Ithink you can do this. So I'm
going to give you thisopportunity to do it. I'm going
(37:29):
to be here when you need help.
So like, you know, I'm not goingto just put you out to fail, but
yeah, I think it's that. It'sthis combination of, like, I
will push people who work forme. But when push comes to
shove, very into pushing rightnow, apparently
I will be right there next tothem trying to figure something
(37:50):
out,if, if they need help. I never
just kind of leave them out toto be, you know, flailing in the
wind or figuring stuff out. Iwill say I'm not. I will be
honest. I'm not good with worklife balance. And so, you know
the the kind of adage where,like, you're better at giving
other people advice and takingyour own advice, like, I'm very
(38:11):
supportive, but my team needswork life balance. I'm awful
about it for myself. No, thattracks.
Yeah, no, for sure, yeah. Soit's all about kind of like
demanding, but having a supportstructure in place as well, so
that you know you're not hangingsomebody out to dry. You're
(38:31):
actually partnering them withthem and their their growth. And
so as you kind of look back inyour your own career, like, is
there any kind of moments thatstand out that were pretty
pivotal, and then also, like,what advice would you give
people, especially women, whoare navigating the media or
podcast industry at the moment?
(38:55):
Yeah,I would say so pivotal moments,
I would say were times where,like, I was so invested in a
role,but couldn't see kind of the
politics that were happeningaround me. And
(39:17):
that's always been like a hardthing for me. I'm, I'm, you
know, I'm who I am. And I'm notgood at playing politics. I'm,
you know, I just want to do thethe work,
you know, and and lift up myteam. And, you know, I struggle
with, you know, situations wherethere's where, if I feel like
(39:43):
something just like, is gettinga little like, why are we doing
that? Like, that's where, youknow, I I've struggled in my own
career. So I feel like the themoments that I come back to are
those moments where, like, I hadto make a real conscious choice
of, like, wow, this isn't theplace for.
Me anymore, and, you know, justdifferent times in my career
(40:04):
where I thought a job, where Ithought I was going to be there
for, you know, the rest of mycareer, and then things were
shifting, or the organizationwas going in a different
direction,and I had to realize, like,
Okay, I now have to separatewhat I thought I wanted from
what is actually like happeninghere and happening in front of
(40:28):
me. So yeah, that I wouldn't saylike that. They're like, it's,
it's been, you know, a series ofa couple of times that that's
happened, you know, in mycareer, where I've just been
like, oh, okay, this is, this isno longer the place that I
thought it was, and I need tofeel, you know, confident in
(40:49):
moving on,yeah? I mean, that's a skill in
and of itself, you know? I thinkothers people, they just kind of
like, hang on to the bitter end,yeah?
Like, good situation. So anykind of insight for you know,
anybody, really, but inparticular, women who are in
(41:10):
this industry today, any kindof, kind of, in addition to what
you just shared, like a, youknow, how to navigate this. I
mean, I guess it's less maledominated than it used to be,
but I don't know just yourthoughts on that, yeah. And I
would say courier right now, ismuch less male dominated than
otherother spaces that I've been in.
(41:31):
But you know, I've definitelyhad many years of being the only
female in the room.
And I would say, you know, findfinding your allies, both male
and female.
I think you know that's reallyimportant, both in your company
and outside. Because, again, Ithink you can get so focused on
(41:54):
what's happening within yourcompany, and then if something,
you know, if you're ready tomove on, either because you need
a new challenge or somethingthat's not going right. Like,
have you now, do you have enoughof a network outside that there
are people who are, you know,thinking of you when job
opportunities come up, or, youknow, can vouch for your
reputation when, when somethingcomes up. So I would say allies
(42:15):
and like, please don't tear downother women. I've seen that
happen a lot. And I like, I getit like, you know, like, work
can be competitive, but thatjust doesn't help in the long
run. And like, you know, wereally have to be looking out
for each other. And I try to dothat again, of just like, you
(42:36):
know, looking at younger peopleon my team and thinking about,
like, Okay, what's, you know,yeah, I could do this project,
but this would be a great thingfor me to bring that person in
on because now they're going toknow, and then, you know,
selfishly, then maybe I could goon vacation and cover my work.
Yeah, no, that's a really goodpoint. You know, we just need to
support each other, you know forsure, you know, because we've
(43:00):
all hopefully benefited fromthat in the past, and it's like,
let's just kind of keep movingit forward. And if so, if you
kind of like, if you're justthinking blue skies and you
could green lightany project, no constraints, no
budget constraints. Is thereanything that you're like, Oh,
if I had opportunity, I wouldreally love to make this
(43:21):
I think.
And it's funny, you know, mybrain pops up with so many ideas
over the years. I have, like,you know, a closet full of ideas
that I didn't, I didn't move on.
But right now, like, I'm reallythinking a lot, a lot about kids
and a lot about parents andlike, what do we need in this
moment. Andso I'm not sure tangibly what it
(43:43):
would be, but I think somethingthat would, you know, be kind of
the next level beyond the 10News, like, really, like, you
know, workshops and and goingaround the country and giving,
giving kids and families achance to really meet and talk
(44:07):
with each other. Because I thinkthat's I had a soapbox for a
little while. I still kind ofbelieve this, though my soapbox
that, like, I wish we all thatthere was, this is what I would
do. I wish there was a programsimilar to
the Peace Corps, whereeveryone was incentivized,
regardless of economicsocioeconomic
(44:33):
everyone had the ability to takea year and go to a different
part of the US and really beexposed to people who are
different than you, and do somepublic service work. And, you
know, and I know there's some,like, there's obviously, there's
Teach for America, like, there'ssome just, like, amazing. But
like, I would want it to bemandated and funded to a level
(44:57):
that, like, it could be mandatedthat.
Everyone could do it. And Ijust, I don't know, I know this
is, it probably sounds so sappy,but like, that would be my
dream, because I do feel that ifwe, if we were just exposed to,
like, really understanding,like, okay, that's I get your
(45:18):
struggle now I get what youknow, like you always say, like,
nobody goes, nobody knows what'sgoing on inside somebody's
relationship, except for thosetwo people in the relationship.
And so, you know, I just feelthat, and especially now more,
we're just so divided. And youknow, what would this country
look like if we really had amoment to, you know, spend in
(45:38):
each other's shoes and andreally like, do some work in
each other's communities. Yeah,I love that. I'm going to send
you this episode of TrevorNoah's podcast, because they he
has some episodes where it'slike, if, if I rule the world
and so, and it was, it's him,and, you know, two guests that
(46:01):
he'll have on his friends, andone of them said similar, you
know, like, it should berequired travel, you know,
whatever. And I want to say theydid, because then they'll vote
on, like, okay, whether or not,like, that should pass. And I
think that they did vote on itand that show that it should be,
you know, something that is athing in the world. So, but I
(46:22):
wholeheartedly agree, becauseit's, it's almost, yeah, I mean,
so many people can't afford totravel right abroad, outside of
their own country, that sort ofa thing. And so they'll, you
know, they'll learn on theinternet, but they'll never,
actually, you know, be able toimmerse themselves in different
cultures in that way. Soespecially over here in the
States, we're so siloed, youknow, we're not, you know, it
(46:45):
always, it always amazes me.
It's always so fascinated. Andpeople live over in Europe, and
they're like, Oh, I'm going overhere this weekend. Totally
different country, you know,right? I'm going right here. And
I'm like,that's incredible. So, yeah, no,
I love that. Okay, so if peoplewant to connect with you online,
what's the best way to do that?
(47:07):
So you can try me on Instagram,which is Tracy Kaplan SF,
or Hello at the 10 news.com, andthat's spelled out, t, N, S, not
the number 10. So hello at the10 news.com, awesome. Very cool.
(47:28):
And then there's this fun, Ithink it's fun question that I
ask everybody, because we'retotally music heads over here,
if you could only listen to onemusic artist for the rest of
your life, who would it be? Wow,you did not prepare me for that.
I did not.
I'm gonna, I'm all right, I'mgonna say Taylor Swift, okay?
(47:53):
Only you know because I, I feellike she, she puts out smoked,
there's always gonna besomething.
So I I was not full disclosure.
I was not a Swifty, and I hadjust a general appreciation for
her music. And then my daughterand I went to one of the one of
(48:13):
the concerts, the errors tourand her endurance, athleticism
and like engagement with herfans was just so inspiring. So
when I'm thinking about music,like, I don't even know all of
her songs, but I just feel likeit would take me back to that,
(48:36):
that moment,you know, with my daughter, and
just like, being there with thispacked stadium that was just so
excited to see her and and justthis, like, joyful moment that
was happening for for threehours. So,
yeah, that's, that's what I'mgoing with. Yeah, no, I yeah,
(49:00):
that's, I totally understandthat. And she does. She has,
like, a good variety of musicof, like, okay, depending upon
your mood or like, you know,right, you're in, as she
probably has a song for that.
And I know exactly what youmean. Like, being in, like,
this, like, packed stadium andeveryone's just, like, aligned
and like, ready, you know? And,yeah, we, we went to see Tyler,
The Creator, in Chicago, thefour of us, my husband and the
(49:21):
two kiddos, and we're all peachfans. And the week he was here
in Austin, it was spring break,we weren't here. And so our kids
were like, how about Chicago?
Like, okay, so. But, like, itwas at the United Center, and it
was like, 30, 35,000 people, andhe sold out both nights, and
everybody. It brought tears tomy eyes, quite honestly, yeah,
because everybody was there,everyone's just in lockstep,
(49:44):
everyone's singing. You reallyhear him, you know. And so it
was just so cool to see thestill large, you know,
percentage of people just kindof like in it together. It was
really, yeah, very beautiful,yeah. And that, that emotional
connection is just Yeah, gets meevery time. Yeah. It's huge.
It's.
Tracy, thank you so much forbeing on the show. I was so
excited. I get to chat with myfriend, how awesome. I get to
(50:05):
chat with my friends, so cool.
And then I'm like, and I get tocatch up at the same time. It's
pretty incredible. So thank youfor your time. I really do
appreciate it. I'm so grateful.
Thank you for having me. Thiswas fun. Bye.
Hey everybody, welcome to the latest episode of clover,
our women in leadership podcastthis week, I have a very dear
friend of mine joining us, TracyKaplan, I was joking with her
before we started recording, andI'm like, I'm not going to ask
you what you're up to, because Iwant it in the episode. Because
what isn't she up to? I don'tknow. Like, every time I turn
(00:30):
around, she's like, launchingthis, leading this, like, Oh,
should I do a podcast show?
Sure. Like she's doing it all.
So Tracy, my listeners are soused to me being like, let's
jump right in. So what I love toask people is tell us kind of
like your origin story, like howyou know you started and how you
kind of made your way to whereyou are today. And I want to
(00:55):
tell our audience, like, buckleup, because this has got to be
quite the story with lots oftwists and turns. So Tracy, take
it away, sure, sure. And I doaffectionately refer to my
career as a hodgepodge. It'sinteresting because there was a
period of time, and I will getto my backstory, but there was a
period of time where, like, Iwas really insecure about that,
(01:18):
and now I've just totallyembraced it as, you know,
something that has made me who Iam, and kind of given me a lot
of opportunities over the years.
But I I started my career when,after I graduated college at
WGBH in Boston, prior to that,I'd done an internship at ABC
News and thought I was going tobe, you know, the next, like,
(01:40):
you know, news producer, butfor, you know, various reasons,
decided to go up to Bostoninstead.
I will admit that reason. I'mstill married to him, 2022,
years later.
But started at GBH in Boston,which was an amazing, place. I
(02:01):
mean, it was right at kind ofthis moment where they were
doing the digital transition andtrying to figure that all out,
and figuring out streaming andkind of how, how that was going
to work within the publicbroadcasting system. So just a
really, really cool time to bethere.
And then I left there. I wasthere for about seven years, and
(02:23):
I left there to go to businessschool at Yale. And after that,
was kind of looking and tryingto think, Well, I would love to
go to New York, but I can'tafford to live in New York, you
know, thanks, student loans.
And I knew I just was ready forsomething different than Boston.
(02:45):
My husband had grown up there.
He also was eager for somethingdifferent. And so we looked West
and we said, you know,we told all of our family that
we're East Coast based like, Oh,don't worry. This will be a
three to five year situation.
Then we'll be back.
We are now going on. Can't domath right now, but about 18
(03:05):
years a house and two kidslater, so I don't think we're
going anywhere. So came out,came out to San Francisco, and I
was super fortunate toget a role with CBS interactive
at the time, because, you know,you would really think about
them as either being LA or NewYork, but it turned out at the
time that their interactivegroup was really being led out
(03:27):
of San Francisco and so camecame out was working kind of a
civil Skunk Works team down inMenlo Park as We were trying to
figure out, what does it meanfor CBS to kind of go, go it
alone and not join Hulu. So I'maging myself here, but it's
(03:47):
crazy now that Hulu is goingaway, and this was like the very
early days of what is nowparamount, plus.
And then CBS bought all the CNETbrand, and I got the amazing
opportunity to meet you. So alsowas working with the tv.com team
(04:08):
on video distribution, and itwas, it was a fun ride. It was
definitely an interesting timeto be there. I apparently have
this like seven year thing,because after seven years of
being there,that's what I decided to move
on. I've always been kind ofthinking about, what are the
pieces that I don't have in mycareer? And so I was feeling
(04:33):
like I was really missing themobile, really mobile and video
and social, kind of those threebuckets together. So I actually
went to a video startup calledsnappy TV
that was doing real time videoclipping for social
distribution, so hitting allthose hitting all those points,
and then they were acquired byTwitter. So I ended up at
(04:56):
Twitter. And as I tell people,you know when I'm.
Doing my backstory. This was preElon Musk, very, very different
time. This was now 2014 2016 andreally came into the whole video
team at Twitter. So and we cango more into, like any
particular era. You know, I havemy own. Taylor Swift has much
(05:19):
better errors than I do, butfrom there, I call that my video
error was there for a coupleyears, and then, you know, I'm
a, I'm an audio lover at heart.
I love podcasts. I listen tothem. It's my it's my medium of
choice. And I really wanted toget into podcasting and audio.
(05:41):
So then I left to go to tune in.
Was running content, contentpartnerships there and then,
before I went out on my own, Igot an opportunity to join
Patreon, where I was workingdirectly with creators and
really helping them build theirmemberships, figure out what
subscription means in in themedia space,
(06:03):
and then left Patreon. Justbefore the pandemic happened, I
was doing some consulting workin the membership space with
supporting cast, which is agreat platform for private
feeds, and got a call from myfriend Donald Albright over at
(06:24):
tenderfoot, one of the biggestTrue Crime podcast companies,
and he said, Hey, you know, I'mtrying to figure out this
membership team, this membershipstuff. Could you
come over and help me out? Sostarted as a consulting gig with
him, and five years later turnedinto, you know, I was still
(06:44):
there, kind of basically actingas the GM for the company,
overseeing subscriptionmarketing, all of our
distribution efforts,resource management, with the
shows. So that that turned intoa very wild ride. And then
somewhere in there,I launched my own company, small
but mighty media that makespodcasts for kids. So my main
(07:06):
show, the 10 News, launched inSeptember of 2020 and Donald was
an EP. He helped me get the showoff the ground. So it was really
nice to have that support fromsomebody who knows the industry
so well, and since then, I havetwo other shows under my belt,
nature nerd, which is anexploration of nature in the
(07:28):
south, and then the weekly roar,which is little bit for the
younger set. And that's just allanimal news and kind of the vein
of Zootopia, where the host isLeland mcmain, a lion with a
suit behind a news desk, so thatthat's kind of my,
(07:51):
my side gig that I that I alsorefer to sometimes as my midlife
crisis. But I love it.
That's awesome. And then you'reworking with courier in capacity
right now too. Yes,yes. So that is present day. So
just back in April, I moved onfrom tenderfoot, still very
(08:12):
close. I was actually justtalking to someone before this
interview over there. ButI'm a news junkie at heart, and
I really wanted to get back tothat. And so an opportunity came
up with courier for folks whoaren't familiar with them.
Courier is a digital newsroom.
(08:34):
For the last six years, they'vehad state based newsrooms in
about 11 different states.
They're really, really committedto local journalism on the
ground. And then about two yearsago, they launched their
national brand, which just blewup on Tiktok and Instagram. And
so I saw it as a really greatopportunity to bring what I know
really well, which is sales andmonetization, into a company
(08:57):
that is really kind of doing thetwo things that I love,
supporting local news and makingsure that that's still viable
and growing, and then also justreaching people who have kind of
checked out of the thetraditional news sources. And so
there, I oversee their theirsales and distribution. Okay?
(09:21):
Very cool. I feel like it'salmost full circle, yeah, to the
newsroom. So, gosh, so muchexperience in such a wide range.
How it's kind of cool, because Ifeel like you were kind of at
the crossroads of so many, youknow, digital innovations,
right? And it's like, okay withthe video, with audio, with
(09:42):
podcast. And I do remember,like, when you and I were
together, totally dating us, butwe would have these
conversations of like, whenmobile was becoming a thing. And
I remember being in thesemeetings, and we're like, is
this the year, or is this thequarter where we need to figure
out our ad?
Ad Strategy for Mobile. And thenwe're like, No, not yet. People
(10:03):
are not watching things on theirphones. It's like, not time yet.
You know that it was just like,Oh, was it? It's crazy. I look
back, yeah. Then it flippedovernight, right? Yes, exactly.
And we're like, not yet. Oh,yes. Now. Okay, so how? So, how
did you kind of spot spotlightthat. Like, how did you figure
out, okay, now is the time tomove to this. Now it's the time
(10:23):
to move to that, you know, wasit just like, an innate interest
in yourself, or was it kind oflike, okay, I see this industry,
you know, that's about toexplode. I'm going to move over
there. Like, how, how did thatkind of all happen?
I would sayI'm just super curious. And I've
always been a big reader,and so when new technologies are
coming out, I'm kind of doing itnow with AI where I just I can't
(10:46):
learn enough good and bad,right? I'm I'm immersing myself.
And even though I certainly whenit comes to AI, I do not see it
as a replacement for theamazing, you know, creativeness
that human beings have. I'mactively, like, almost forcing
(11:07):
myself to use it because I don'twant to be left behind of where
it goes. So I've always had thatkind of, just like, innate
curiosity and wanting to makesure that I'm learning things.
And then I would say the otherpiece is just that, like, I
really enjoy being an observer.
(11:28):
So you know, to your point aboutthe video piece, I just remember
going to Japan and seeingeverybody on the subway there
was watching videos on theirphone, and that was about 10
years before we were doing ithere. And so just kind of
observing people, observing whatthey're doing. And you know, it
(11:49):
helps me now, actually, with,you know, we just launched the
sixth season of the 10 News andpeople ask me, like, Oh, where
do you get your ideas for a lotof the stories that you cover
and put in, I'm just, I'm payingattention to the questions and
the things that I'm seeingpeople ask, or the conversations
that I'm seeing people have tothink about, like, Okay, this is
(12:10):
where this conversation isheading. Or, Wow, I'm seeing
now, in my circles, thistechnology starting to be, you
know, adapted. And, you know,I'll joke like, I'm an old lady.
So at this point, or at leastlike, you know, I definitely,
there are times that I feel, youknow, I'm, won't say, an old
lady. I am a very comfortablemiddle aged woman. And so,
(12:35):
you know, but I like to jokethat, you know, I'm not a first
mover anymore, but at the pointthat I see something bubbling
up, you know, if I feel like Idon't really know it and
understand it, then that's akind of a pause for me of like,
okay, I need to, I need to carveout some time, and, you know,
not, not fall into the trap ofmy kids showing me everything I
(12:58):
know. Whenever that happens, I'mlike, No, I am not going to be
that person, like, I'm not goingto write to my child and be
like, explain this to me. Like,no, it's not.
No, it has happened. But I'mlike, it does happen. It does
happen. There's I will alsoadmit that I'm at a point now
where I only have so much brainspace for certain things
anymore. So there are thingsthat I've just decided to
(13:21):
delegate to my children. Yeah,no, that's smart. That's fair.
So another thing that youtouched on, that I want to kind
of dive into, is you're okay, soyou're curious, like, Okay, I
want to learn more about thesethings. And you just go, you
know? And you're like, Well, I'mgoing to jump in. Whereas I
think so many of us, and we wereactually, I was talking about
(13:41):
Cherie Werner, was on the show,and she is kind of like, the
connector for startups inAustin, and I was asking her
about women founders and allthat kind of things. And she's
like, I'm like, begging them topresent, to pitch, you know,
their ideas and all the things.
And we got to talking about howso many times as women, we're
kind of like, oh, well, we don'thave all the experience. We
don't check all the boxes, so wecan't do that right. Now, what I
(14:03):
love about you is that you'relike, F that, like, I'm
interested in it. I'm gonna hopright and so talk a little bit
about that, if you wouldn'tmind, of like, hey, I'm
interested in this. I don't havetons of knowledge on it, but I
know it's something I'minterested in. I want to learn
more about it, and it'ssomething I want to be involved
in. And that doesn't the lack offoundational knowledge or
(14:24):
mastering something does nothold you back, which I love. So
if you could just expand uponthat a little bit further, of
how you kind of tackle that inyour in your career,
and I'll be the first to say,like I have real imposter
syndrome. It is, it is aconstant battle to kind of tell
(14:44):
that voice to be quiet.
But I think the key thing that Ijust lean into a lot is I'm not
afraid toask questions and seek out help.
So going back to our.
Early days of knowing eachother.
You know, I was tasked withbeing the first Partner Manager
(15:06):
for this video product, productthat CBS was building, and
really be the person between thepartners that we needed to
develop deep relationships withand the product team that were
so busy and heads down justbuilding it. And I realized
really quickly that the only waythis was going to work is, was
if I could be able to speak allthe languages, so be able to
(15:30):
speak with the product team andthe engineers in a way that
that, you know, we couldcommunicate and they understood
what I was trying to do, andthen speak with the partners,
you know, with their languageand explain what we were trying
to do. And I knew nothing aboutRSS feed technology, but I have
(15:51):
a very smart husband who's anengineer, so and we had an hour
commute from Menlo Park back toSan Francisco. So we would get
in the car, and I would be like,Okay, today's class.
On RSS, go and, you know, I I'vealways done that of just who,
(16:12):
who can I reach out to? And Ialways make sure to return the
favor. If you're someone who hasgiven me advice or taken time to
explain something to me, I willalways do the same and make time
for you. But I think that's beenmy secret sauce is,
(16:33):
rather than shying away fromwhat I don't know, fully
embracing it and looking for thepeople who either can help me
fill my knowledge gap or that Icould bring together as as team
members to build somethingtogether. So going back to the
10 News I had never createdcontent myself. I don't put
(16:56):
myself out there. As you know,I'm not an educator, I'm not a
journalist, but I'm a damn goodproducer, and so that I knew
that I could bring the rightpeople together to get this off
the ground. And so I thinkthat's the other piece. Is like,
when you're looking at a sea ofthings that you don't know know
(17:16):
how to do, really lean into whatyou can do. And
there's also that adage thatpeople say of like, leading, you
know, saying you're like, leaninto your strengths and all
that. And I will say up to apoint where, sorry, I'll
start that again. You'll have toadd at this.
But you know where people, wherepeople are always trying to tell
(17:39):
you to, like, overcome yourweaknesses. I actually really
believe in leaning into yourstrengths, because ideally, that
will get to you, get you to apoint where you can hire for
your weaknesses. So you know,when I need an expert in
something and it's not somethingthat I know that I can get up to
speed fast enough there'samazing talent out there. I will
(18:01):
find someone that I can bring into then be that person and give
them the support that they needto be successful. Yeah, no,
that's so smart. I agree withthat, for sure. And even within
a certain niche, I feel likeyou're, you know, run the gamut
and like topics as well, right?
So when we look at the 10 News,when we look at, you know, you
(18:22):
know, the true crime, you know,podcast, I mean, such different
audiences, right? And so it'slike, how, how do you, how do
you come up with, like, okay,distribution and partnerships
for all of these things thatare, like, completely different,
you know? So how do you, how doyou manage that and kind of
navigate it? As you said, Youare a damn good producer, and,
(18:43):
you know, with that comespartnerships and distribution.
It's like, but these things donot, they're not the same at
all, you know. So kind of, howdo you manage that,
you know? So there's thisamazing woman, Susan McPherson,
who isa brilliant connector. She
actually wrote a book called TheArt of connecting.
(19:03):
Encourage everyone to read it,and I think I approach my work
with just that common of I wantto hear what people are doing
and try to figure out how toconnect the pieces to then make
it successful. So if it's truecrime or a kid show, I'm really
(19:28):
just unpacking like, is thisquality? Is this something that
is going to either educatesomeone, inspire them, engage
them, like the actual what it isI feel like can actually be
interchangeable, because it'sreally just about like, you
know, what is it? What does ittake to engage audiences, and
(19:53):
does this piece of content, ordoes this project that I'm
working on, does it have that?
Yeah, and how do you.
You grow the audience as well,like, so, two questions, two
parter. So what? What inspiredyou to create a show
specifically for kids, which, bythe way, when that show first
launched, attend youth, my kid,my kiddos were of the age, or it
(20:14):
was so perfect for them, youknow? So I was like, listen to
my friend Tracy show. It was sogreat. So, and you've, you've
gotten, like, I don't even know,like Lego, like Ashton, all
these amazing guests on it. Soyou know, first of all, what
inspired you to even launch ashow for kids? And then
secondly, like, How have yougrown it, and how have you kind
of gotten the word out, and areable to get such high caliber
(20:36):
guests that kids are actuallyinterested in
too? Yeah, I love, I lovetalking about our origin story.
It does feel like such adifferent time, especially
because my kids were eight and10 at the time, and now they're
13 and 15,but at the time, so I'd said I
was consulting, and it reallywas the first time I was home. I
(20:56):
i love my children, I love myfamily life. I also love to
work. And that's just, that'show I'm wired. And so I've
always had,you know, a lot of travel in the
jobs that I've done. And so thiswas a shift for me, where now I
was doing it was, it was beforethe lockdown of the pandemic,
(21:18):
but I was doing the everydaypickup at three o'clock, and I
listened to NPR at three o'clockand hearing kind of the stories
that they were covering, andbeing in the pickup line and
having to immediately turn itoff, because, you know, whoever
was programming, I lived in SanFrancisco, so whoever was
(21:40):
programming KQED was notthinking about that my children
were about to get in the car,and that they were covering a
topic that I was not prepared,as a parent, for them to
overhear and start to talkabout. So that was kind of the
first thing that was happening.
Was like realizing that now thatI was home in the afternoons
with the kids, like, you know,my current habit of just kind of
(22:02):
having my ear, you know, havingmy earbuds in and listening to
the afternoon news coveragewasn't fitting now and then, the
second thing that happened waswe went into lockdown. And, you
know, like most families, wewere just, you know, struggling
to survive with Zoom school,and, you know, the kids being on
(22:26):
screens. And I've always beenpretty involved. I mean, I used
to manage the CBS YouTuberelationship, so I used to be
pretty involved in kind ofpaying attention to what they
were watching on YouTube. Andone day we were sitting around,
and I asked them, I said, Do youknow who's running for the
Democratic primary? Becausethat's, that's where we were in,
(22:47):
in kind of the time of year. Andwithout missing a beat, they
both went, Mike, we'll get itdone. And no shade to Mike
Bloomberg, I don't know that herealized that he was capturing
the eight to 10 market with hiscampaign ads on YouTube.
But it was, it was thatrealization that here I've been
(23:07):
so focused on the content, Iwasn't even thinking about the
ads that they were seeing onthis platform, and that, you
know, political ads were kind ofshaping their view of the world
around them. So that's when Ireally just started talking to
parents,realizing that also with kids
being so disconnected from theirteachers, from their classmates,
(23:28):
that there was this real needhere for a show that families
could listen to together, thatwouldn't shy away from tough
topics, but also could be a showthat really felt like theirs,
and we actually, I got a teamtogether, and we piloted about,
I think it was like four to fiveepisodes that have never seen
(23:50):
the light of day, and it wasstrictly, it was just for us to
figure out the tone of The Show.
What do parents need? We sent itto a whole bunch of parents and
kids for their feedback, and itwas really just us workshopping.
You know, what is needed in thismoment? It was during Black
(24:13):
Lives Matter, during thepandemic shutdown. And so by the
time we officially launched inSeptember of 2020,
you know, we had a good sense ofwhat we wanted the show to be.
And, you know, even now, sixyears later, I'm still tweaking
it all the time, I bet, I bet.
Yeah, so how did you, how didyou grow it to what it was to
(24:33):
now? And, you know, like I said,you would you get really high
caliber guests to be on it, youknow, and everything
contributors. So talk a littlebit about that, like, how are
those, I mean, still growingyears, right? But how was that,
you know, from from then to now?
Yeah, I think it goes back tothat. I've just never been
(24:54):
afraid to ask and lean on myconnection. So a dear friend had
the connection to.
To Dr Fauci. And so this wasDecember of 2020,
and I just wasn't afraid to putit out there, because I figured,
worst case, he says no, and thebest case happened. It's one of
(25:15):
my favorite episodes. He cameon, and we had amassed a bunch
of questions from kids who askedhim, you know, we directly
played for him, the kidsquestions to respond to and and
to me that that's just such ahighlight, because I don't ever
pretend that I know what's in akid's head. So there are
definite times where I'll bethinking that they're worried
(25:39):
about something else, or theywant to ask something else to a
guest, and then what pops out isthe most earnest, Wonderful
question that I never as anadult could have put, you know,
put together. So those are myfavorite moments. But again,
you know, not being afraid toask and really showing that what
(26:00):
we are doing is meeting a need.
So whenever I ask a guest tocome on, I always send them
examples of the work that we'vedone. I'm fortunate at this
point that the show has wonawards, so other people have
validated the work that we'redoing. But I just, I really make
sure that any asks that I'mputting out there, it's not just
(26:21):
a like, Hey, you want to do thislike, I'm prepared with, here's
why we're asking you, here's whowe are, here's what this will
look like. So I just, I make ita very easy, yes, yeah, yeah.
That's great, you know. And kindof like, what they're going to
get out of it, and how they'regoing to impact and all of that,
rather than just like we'd loveto have you, yeah, no, right,
(26:42):
right, makes sense. So we talkeda little bit earlier. I mean,
you've launched subscriptionchannel models. I mean, you're a
lot of the programs are justthese top listed programs,
Apple, what have you podcasting.
It's changed, you know, sinceit's, you know, since it
started. And I'm curious on,like, kind of, like your take
(27:05):
and especially monetizationaround podcast, right? So I'm
curious kind of your take on,like, where it is now and where
it's headed podcasting ingeneral, as well as, like, the
monetization of it.
Yeah, when I was at tenderfoot,I had the privilege to be one of
the first partners in the Applechannel subscription program
(27:25):
that they were building. Andthat's always fun when, when you
have a partner who's like, Hey,I'm I'm building this thing, do
you want to be,you know, our first partner, and
you know you have to commit toit, knowing that things are
going to break all the time andexactly, but like, you're
learning together with apartner, which is, which is
always, always fun for me,and I really believe in kind of
(27:48):
choice for consumers. So whenI'm looking at monetization
options, and especially withsubscription, like, there's the
very transactional, like, Appleis super transactional.
A company like tenderfoot, likeyou don't get any data on who
those people are. People arejust signing up to get, you
(28:11):
know, a very discreet I get adfree episodes, or I get bonus
content. And then you have atthe other end of the spectrum,
companies like Patreon or,you know, areas where you can
kind of give someone a tip, andthat's very more like, I would
say, very more emotional,altruistic, like, you know, I
(28:33):
worked with a bunch of creatorswhen I was a Patreon who, you
know, had patrons who they nevercared, if they they never had
like access to any of thecontent they were getting. They
just wanted to give to make surethat that person could still
keep creating what they weredoing. So I always look at kind
of things on that spectrum, andthink about, you know, also as a
(28:55):
business, are you diversified?
So if the ad market softens, doyou have your membership base to
lean on? If we're in a periodwhere people are cutting back,
anyone who's running asubscription program will tell
you January and February are thescariest times of the year,
(29:16):
because that's when everyonekind of looks and decides like,
you know, I'm going to do mybudget for the year. Here are
the things that I'm going tocancel. And like, they usually
cancel in January, and then ithits in February. So, you know,
also thinking about like, youcan't just solely rely on
subscription to run yourbusiness, it's really healthy to
find something, you know, inbetween the 10 News, for
(29:39):
example, there, there really isnot a robust ad market in the
kids space. And so I fund thatthrough donations. So I
partnered with a fiscal sponsorwho who handles all of the
nonprofit reportingrequirements, you know, for me,
and works with me on that. And.
(30:00):
And that way people who want tosupport the show, who donate,
they can get their their taxdonation, their tax benefit for
supporting the show. And so thatthen there is another kind of
avenue for people to be thinkingabout, especially if you're
doing something in the nonprofitspace or the advocacy space, you
know, really looking at grantdollars and funds from
(30:23):
foundations that might be ableto support you. So that's kind
of how I look at it. Is likegive consumers the choice,
depending on if they feel morelike emotionally tied to you, or
just want the choice to be ableto pay to not have ads,
and then for where, for wherethe industry is going. That's a
(30:44):
tough one. Yeah.
Again, as somebody who loves thepower of audio, I'm a little
not just me, it's the rightword, but
you know, just I'm watchingwith, I'm watching the move into
everything has to be video. Youknow that every podcast now is
(31:06):
under such pressure for it to bea video podcast. You know, the
10 News, the team is fullyremote.
You know, I when I started, youknow, recording ads for the
show, because I have two cohosts, though, I just come in as
the, you know, sometimes I'mwritten in as the, the mean
producer character, or I'mrecording the ads. But like, you
(31:29):
know, I recorded, you know, inmy daughter's bunk bed with a
sheet. You know that that's notgoing to be on video. So, you
know, and I, I also truly lovethe connection that happens when
you're listening to someone'svoice, or when you're listening
to a storyand it's pure audio. So I hope
that, again, I love choice. Ilove having options, the
(31:52):
inclusivity of having options,but I hope that the kind of rush
to video doesn't mean thatpeople stop thinking about the
audio component and the richnessand the intimacy that comes from
audio. Yeah, I agree. It's it'sreally funny, because it's like,
(32:14):
okay, video is video is king,and everything has been video.
But there's still quite a fewlarge scale podcasts that are
sticking to their guns. They arelike, we are audio. This is
what, you know, yeah. And, youknow, I will say, when I listen
to podcasts, I'm not watchingthe video nine times out of 10,
even if there is a videocomponent, like I am running I'm
in my car, you know, that sortof a thing. And it really is
(32:37):
that that audio connection, likeeven Kelly Ripa has a podcast.
Let's talk off camera. Andshe's, it's off camera so they
don't, you know, and that's a,that's a perk for her guest, you
know, she had Oprah on, and shewas like, Yeah, I said yes,
because you're like, off camera.
Heck, yeah. Like, that's onelistening to worry about hair
makeup. You know, I think peoplecan be more organically
(33:00):
themselves. They're not worryingabout what they're looking like.
What is my background? You know,that kind of thing too. So
there's something to be said,you know, for audio, as you were
saying. And you know, inaddition to these big names that
you've you've gotten on yourpodcast like you've gotten, you
know, worked with and supportedand did partnerships with big
names in podcast land, likeSpotify Apple, I heart. I mean,
(33:24):
you name it, you've worked withthem in your own company. Small
but mighty media is goingstrong, right? So how, how do
you like, what makes for thatlike a truly, like, strong, long
term partnership in media?
Because it's such a fickleindustry, but I feel like you
figured it out, you know, andsomehow you forged these amazing
partnerships, and they've lastedquite a while. So, you know,
(33:47):
talk about that a little bit ofhow you've sort of navigated
that. Yeah, it's interesting,because
I'm as much as, like we'vetalked about my career and me
being willing to, you know, askanyone for help or reach out, I
(34:09):
will say the one thing that Ilike have shied away from, that
I'm pushing myself to do more,is actually things like this,
like putting my own name onthings. A lot of people in the
industry know me, but not frombeing like, Oh, she was the
speaker at that event. Like theyknow me for my work, which is,
(34:30):
which is a great thing to beknown for, and with that, they
know that I'm responsive,I'm direct. So if something's
not working, I'll be the firstto just say, hey, this isn't
working.
And they they know that I careand that I care about is this a
good partnership, that we'reboth getting something out of
(34:51):
it, rather than like a zero sumgame, but, but it is interesting
that, like I I'm at a point nowwhere I'm I'm starting to be
more.
Comfortable with putting myselfout there. And I think it's
just, you know, I now have theenergy to do that in a way that
I that I didn't before. But Ialways say that, just like, you
(35:12):
know, someone emails you like,email them back, you know, and
don't be afraid to pick up aphone call. And as tiring as it
is, I was inDC the last couple days, and
like, I just made a point toreach out to people that I
haven't seen in a while, andeven if it was just grabbing a
coffee, just really makingmaking time to stay connected to
people. And it's, it's not easy.
(35:35):
You have to be reallyintentional about it. But it's,
I think it's just so worth it.
Yeah, so it's all about therelationship, kind of like
building and nurturing thoserelationships. And so, like,
leadership wise, we talked abouthow you've created, you know,
you've built, you've managedthese teams, and, you know, you
did not pick a low pressurecareer. These are, like, high
(35:58):
pressure environment. So a lot,a lot of you know, things are on
the line. So what is yourphilosophy on leading people
through growth, through change,you know, my gosh, through the
pandemic. I mean, you've seen somuch change and so so much
growth in these industries, andinnovation change and all that.
So how do you kind of leadpeople through all of that,
(36:22):
I thinkI'm not afraid to roll up my
sleeves and do the grunt workwhen it needs to happen, like if
my team is underwater, I will bethe first to be right there
doing the work with them. Andi i Maybe, maybe that's not
always the right thing. I don'tknow. Maybe it runs counter to,
(36:44):
like management, like managementbooks, but you know, I, and I'll
say, you know, in a way that'snot like, you know, only when
everybody is struggling andneeds and needs to know that
they're not alone.
Because the idea really try togive my, anyone who's worked for
(37:07):
me, you know, visibility,opportunities for growth.
You know, really like, and I'llsay, like, sometimes I'm not
easy. Like, I push, and I pushfor a reason, because I'll see
in a team member. Like, no, Ithink you can do this. So I'm
going to give you thisopportunity to do it. I'm going
(37:29):
to be here when you need help.
So like, you know, I'm not goingto just put you out to fail, but
yeah, I think it's that. It'sthis combination of, like, I
will push people who work forme. But when push comes to
shove, very into pushing rightnow, apparently
I will be right there next tothem trying to figure something
(37:50):
out,if, if they need help. I never
just kind of leave them out toto be, you know, flailing in the
wind or figuring stuff out. Iwill say I'm not. I will be
honest. I'm not good with worklife balance. And so, you know
the the kind of adage where,like, you're better at giving
other people advice and takingyour own advice, like, I'm very
(38:11):
supportive, but my team needswork life balance. I'm awful
about it for myself. No, thattracks.
Yeah, no, for sure, yeah. Soit's all about kind of like
demanding, but having a supportstructure in place as well, so
that you know you're not hangingsomebody out to dry. You're
(38:31):
actually partnering them withthem and their their growth. And
so as you kind of look back inyour your own career, like, is
there any kind of moments thatstand out that were pretty
pivotal, and then also, like,what advice would you give
people, especially women, whoare navigating the media or
podcast industry at the moment?
(38:55):
Yeah,I would say so pivotal moments,
I would say were times where,like, I was so invested in a
role,but couldn't see kind of the
politics that were happeningaround me. And
(39:17):
that's always been like a hardthing for me. I'm, I'm, you
know, I'm who I am. And I'm notgood at playing politics. I'm,
you know, I just want to do thethe work,
you know, and and lift up myteam. And, you know, I struggle
with, you know, situations wherethere's where, if I feel like
(39:43):
something just like, is gettinga little like, why are we doing
that? Like, that's where, youknow, I I've struggled in my own
career. So I feel like the themoments that I come back to are
those moments where, like, I hadto make a real conscious choice
of, like, wow, this isn't theplace for.
Me anymore, and, you know, justdifferent times in my career
(40:04):
where I thought a job, where Ithought I was going to be there
for, you know, the rest of mycareer, and then things were
shifting, or the organizationwas going in a different
direction,and I had to realize, like,
Okay, I now have to separatewhat I thought I wanted from
what is actually like happeninghere and happening in front of
(40:28):
me. So yeah, that I wouldn't saylike that. They're like, it's,
it's been, you know, a series ofa couple of times that that's
happened, you know, in mycareer, where I've just been
like, oh, okay, this is, this isno longer the place that I
thought it was, and I need tofeel, you know, confident in
(40:49):
moving on,yeah? I mean, that's a skill in
and of itself, you know? I thinkothers people, they just kind of
like, hang on to the bitter end,yeah?
Like, good situation. So anykind of insight for you know,
anybody, really, but inparticular, women who are in
(41:10):
this industry today, any kindof, kind of, in addition to what
you just shared, like a, youknow, how to navigate this. I
mean, I guess it's less maledominated than it used to be,
but I don't know just yourthoughts on that, yeah. And I
would say courier right now, ismuch less male dominated than
otherother spaces that I've been in.
(41:31):
But you know, I've definitelyhad many years of being the only
female in the room.
And I would say, you know, findfinding your allies, both male
and female.
I think you know that's reallyimportant, both in your company
and outside. Because, again, Ithink you can get so focused on
(41:54):
what's happening within yourcompany, and then if something,
you know, if you're ready tomove on, either because you need
a new challenge or somethingthat's not going right. Like,
have you now, do you have enoughof a network outside that there
are people who are, you know,thinking of you when job
opportunities come up, or, youknow, can vouch for your
reputation when, when somethingcomes up. So I would say allies
(42:15):
and like, please don't tear downother women. I've seen that
happen a lot. And I like, I getit like, you know, like, work
can be competitive, but thatjust doesn't help in the long
run. And like, you know, wereally have to be looking out
for each other. And I try to dothat again, of just like, you
(42:36):
know, looking at younger peopleon my team and thinking about,
like, Okay, what's, you know,yeah, I could do this project,
but this would be a great thingfor me to bring that person in
on because now they're going toknow, and then, you know,
selfishly, then maybe I could goon vacation and cover my work.
Yeah, no, that's a really goodpoint. You know, we just need to
support each other, you know forsure, you know, because we've
(43:00):
all hopefully benefited fromthat in the past, and it's like,
let's just kind of keep movingit forward. And if so, if you
kind of like, if you're justthinking blue skies and you
could green lightany project, no constraints, no
budget constraints. Is thereanything that you're like, Oh,
if I had opportunity, I wouldreally love to make this
(43:21):
I think.
And it's funny, you know, mybrain pops up with so many ideas
over the years. I have, like,you know, a closet full of ideas
that I didn't, I didn't move on.
But right now, like, I'm reallythinking a lot, a lot about kids
and a lot about parents andlike, what do we need in this
moment. Andso I'm not sure tangibly what it
(43:43):
would be, but I think somethingthat would, you know, be kind of
the next level beyond the 10News, like, really, like, you
know, workshops and and goingaround the country and giving,
giving kids and families achance to really meet and talk
(44:07):
with each other. Because I thinkthat's I had a soapbox for a
little while. I still kind ofbelieve this, though my soapbox
that, like, I wish we all thatthere was, this is what I would
do. I wish there was a programsimilar to
the Peace Corps, whereeveryone was incentivized,
regardless of economicsocioeconomic
(44:33):
everyone had the ability to takea year and go to a different
part of the US and really beexposed to people who are
different than you, and do somepublic service work. And, you
know, and I know there's some,like, there's obviously, there's
Teach for America, like, there'ssome just, like, amazing. But
like, I would want it to bemandated and funded to a level
(44:57):
that, like, it could be mandatedthat.
Everyone could do it. And Ijust, I don't know, I know this
is, it probably sounds so sappy,but like, that would be my
dream, because I do feel that ifwe, if we were just exposed to,
like, really understanding,like, okay, that's I get your
(45:18):
struggle now I get what youknow, like you always say, like,
nobody goes, nobody knows what'sgoing on inside somebody's
relationship, except for thosetwo people in the relationship.
And so, you know, I just feelthat, and especially now more,
we're just so divided. And youknow, what would this country
look like if we really had amoment to, you know, spend in
(45:38):
each other's shoes and andreally like, do some work in
each other's communities. Yeah,I love that. I'm going to send
you this episode of TrevorNoah's podcast, because they he
has some episodes where it'slike, if, if I rule the world
and so, and it was, it's him,and, you know, two guests that
(46:01):
he'll have on his friends, andone of them said similar, you
know, like, it should berequired travel, you know,
whatever. And I want to say theydid, because then they'll vote
on, like, okay, whether or not,like, that should pass. And I
think that they did vote on itand that show that it should be,
you know, something that is athing in the world. So, but I
(46:22):
wholeheartedly agree, becauseit's, it's almost, yeah, I mean,
so many people can't afford totravel right abroad, outside of
their own country, that sort ofa thing. And so they'll, you
know, they'll learn on theinternet, but they'll never,
actually, you know, be able toimmerse themselves in different
cultures in that way. Soespecially over here in the
States, we're so siloed, youknow, we're not, you know, it
(46:45):
always, it always amazes me.
It's always so fascinated. Andpeople live over in Europe, and
they're like, Oh, I'm going overhere this weekend. Totally
different country, you know,right? I'm going right here. And
I'm like,that's incredible. So, yeah, no,
I love that. Okay, so if peoplewant to connect with you online,
what's the best way to do that?
(47:07):
So you can try me on Instagram,which is Tracy Kaplan SF,
or Hello at the 10 news.com, andthat's spelled out, t, N, S, not
the number 10. So hello at the10 news.com, awesome. Very cool.
(47:28):
And then there's this fun, Ithink it's fun question that I
ask everybody, because we'retotally music heads over here,
if you could only listen to onemusic artist for the rest of
your life, who would it be? Wow,you did not prepare me for that.
I did not.
I'm gonna, I'm all right, I'mgonna say Taylor Swift, okay?
(47:53):
Only you know because I, I feellike she, she puts out smoked,
there's always gonna besomething.
So I I was not full disclosure.
I was not a Swifty, and I hadjust a general appreciation for
her music. And then my daughterand I went to one of the one of
(48:13):
the concerts, the errors tourand her endurance, athleticism
and like engagement with herfans was just so inspiring. So
when I'm thinking about music,like, I don't even know all of
her songs, but I just feel likeit would take me back to that,
(48:36):
that moment,you know, with my daughter, and
just like, being there with thispacked stadium that was just so
excited to see her and and justthis, like, joyful moment that
was happening for for threehours. So,
yeah, that's, that's what I'mgoing with. Yeah, no, I yeah,
(49:00):
that's, I totally understandthat. And she does. She has,
like, a good variety of musicof, like, okay, depending upon
your mood or like, you know,right, you're in, as she
probably has a song for that.
And I know exactly what youmean. Like, being in, like,
this, like, packed stadium andeveryone's just, like, aligned
and like, ready, you know? And,yeah, we, we went to see Tyler,
The Creator, in Chicago, thefour of us, my husband and the
(49:21):
two kiddos, and we're all peachfans. And the week he was here
in Austin, it was spring break,we weren't here. And so our kids
were like, how about Chicago?
Like, okay, so. But, like, itwas at the United Center, and it
was like, 30, 35,000 people, andhe sold out both nights, and
everybody. It brought tears tomy eyes, quite honestly, yeah,
because everybody was there,everyone's just in lockstep,
(49:44):
everyone's singing. You reallyhear him, you know. And so it
was just so cool to see thestill large, you know,
percentage of people just kindof like in it together. It was
really, yeah, very beautiful,yeah. And that, that emotional
connection is just Yeah, gets meevery time. Yeah. It's huge.
It's.
Tracy, thank you so much forbeing on the show. I was so
excited. I get to chat with myfriend, how awesome. I get to
(50:05):
chat with my friends, so cool.
And then I'm like, and I get tocatch up at the same time. It's
pretty incredible. So thank youfor your time. I really do
appreciate it. I'm so grateful.
Thank you for having me. Thiswas fun. Bye.
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