March 15, 2024 • 30 mins
Struggling to get your message across? Discover the secrets to articulate with finesse the art of communication with my guest Communication Specialist Dimitrios Loukakis . Ever found yourself tripping over your words or racing through sentences? You're not alone. That's exactly where I was until Dimitri, with his treasure trove of performing arts and voice acumen, guided me through the labyrinth of effective communication. Journey with us as we dissect the essentials of engaging your listeners—ensuring your words don't just speak but truly resonate.
Prepare to transform your dialogue during our conversation on the subtleties of public speaking and the mindful adjustments necessary for captivating an audience—whether it's a sea of faces or a single confidant. With Dimitri's expertise, learn to analyze your listeners and craft messages with precision, much like selecting the ultimate lure for the perfect catch. We also get candid about the internal chatter that can sabotage our speaking success, highlighting the role of self-reflection in honing your communication craft. Whether you're aiming to influence a crowd or enrich personal connections, this episode is your backstage pass to commanding the stage of everyday conversations.
Connect with Dimitir Loukakis
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, I'm Coach Mickey and I'm so glad that you've
joined us, and if this is yourfirst time joining us, come on
in to make yourself comfortable.
For those of you that joined uson a regular basis, I am so glad
that you do.
Thank you so much for alwaysreaching out to our guests with
your comments, your questionsand your suggestions of people
you'd like to hear, not only onthis podcast but on my YouTube
channel, and we have had aplethora of incredible,
(00:23):
incredible guests that have comeon, and I am so grateful for
each and every one of thembecause they always got
something to share that I findvaluable, that not only helps me
as an individual, but alsogives you a little something
that you can take within yourlife and help you.
And today I'm really excited.
This is gonna be fun because,being a gal from New York and,
(00:44):
as you know, on my podcasts andmy YouTube channels, sometimes I
speak very fast, sometimes Idon't finish a sentence,
sometimes I laugh at what I'msaying, so I am really thrilled
to have on today Dimitri, who isa communication specialist, and
what he does is he has amission to help people how to
(01:06):
communicate with more confidenceand be more confident in their
communication, so we're gonnahave fun with you today.
Dimitri, how are you?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Hi, I'm Mickey, and thank you for having me as well.
I'm doing great today.
Actually, it's been arelatively chill day today, so
I'm getting things done one at atime.
Thank you for having me andthank you for this wonderful
introduction as well.
I appreciate being a guest here.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Well, I'm thrilled to have you.
As I know and I've heard fromnot only my friends, but also I
call my circle of friends hereon the podcast and on the
YouTube channel they're like, ohmy gosh, you speak so fast.
However, I've learned to slowdown, I've learned to try to
think before the process goesfrom my brain to my mouth, which
isn't always happening, so I'vegot to ask you.
(02:04):
Well, first of all, I wannaback up, tell me your story.
How did you get involved withthis?
How did this become yourpassion and your mission in life
to be able to help people tocommunicate.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, so I've always had this bug in communication, I
think because of my environment.
Both my parents, I feel, arevery.
They don't speak the samelanguage necessarily, and so I
always had this bug and thiscuriosity about how people
communicate with each other ingeneral.
But at first, actually, mybackground is in more performing
(02:40):
arts, so I actually I'moriginally Greek, but at the age
of just before 18, around 18, Imoved to London.
I'm a UK and I studied theater.
I have my first degree intheater and then I did a second
degree, a master's degree in inacting actually, and then I
(03:01):
started acting in London and Idid that for about five years
and that was I really enjoyed it, mostly stage stuff rather than
film stuff, but I did a bit ofscreen as well and there was
something inside of me that feltthat I needed more.
And it sounds a bit crazy,because a lot of people really
(03:22):
dream of becoming actors andkind of like making it and going
on stage and doing all of thatstuff, and part of me had that.
But I also felt like I wanted tobe more creative and somehow I
felt I wanted to be more helpfulin some ways and so I did a
(03:43):
third degree, I suppose a thirddegree, another master's degree,
in voice studies, incommunication, verbal, vocal
communication basically and thatwas a two-year MFA program
where we go into the tangiblesof voice, if you like, so
physiology, anatomy, acoustics,the science of it, if you like,
(04:05):
and also the untangible, themore artistic elements of voice
as a sense of identity and whowe are and how we express
ourselves and how personal ourcommunication is.
And so I did that, graduatedand then I started my practice
and I've been training speakers,I've been training actors, I've
(04:29):
been training journalists,people who have communication at
the heart of their practice.
Ever since, and about almostthree years ago, I moved to the
US, in LA, california, and I'vebeen continuing doing my
business here and I've beenhaving a great, great time doing
so.
It's been an honor dealing withpeople's personal stories and a
(04:53):
huge responsibility in beingcareful and sensitive as I
handle them as well in mypractice.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Wow, that's dealing with a lot of different
personalities in an eclecticgroup.
I mean, I'm not just speakingabout LA, but coming from Greece
, then to London and then fromLondon here to the US.
So you really have had agrouping of different cultures,
different beliefs, different,like you said, dialects.
(05:22):
So all that pulling it together.
Let me ask you this what do youfind is the most common thing
or common denominator,especially across the board?
I mean, regardless of whatculture or background that
somebody has?
That you find is the strugglewith communication.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Good question.
I would say the most commonstruggles are usually
manifestations of manifestationsof a very important rule in
communication, or breaking thatrule, and that rule is that it
doesn't matter what you say orwhat the other person hears.
(06:05):
So if, for example, we'retalking about you mentioned
earlier that you, you knowyou're speaking fast, or a lot
of people speak fast,communication happens on the
terms of the listeners terms.
Basically.
So fast is not fast to you,Fast is fast for the listener.
(06:26):
So, in order to preventcognitive overload, very often
we need to think about what isthe pace that the listener can
process information and thenspeak at that pace.
So that is like onemanifestation, other
manifestations.
You can hear it when people saywell, I told you this and
(06:47):
that's what you said.
That can absolutely be true, itdoesn't matter.
It doesn't mean that that'swhat I heard and that's what
they heard.
Your listeners heard.
It could be that you mumbledyour words.
It could be that you explainedit in a very convoluted,
complicated way.
It could be that you were notprojecting your voice or they
(07:08):
didn't hear it, or it could bedown to them.
I always, sometimes I teachworkshops straight after lunch
and all the blood is goingstraight to people's stomachs
and they're not really focusing.
They're getting sleepy.
It could be that they'reoverstressed so they didn't hear
it or they had something elsein their minds.
It could be there'sneurodiversity.
(07:29):
It could be that they've gotADHD and their attention is
somewhere else.
There are so many factors thataffect that can give birth to
unwanted misunderstandings, andthere are usually some sort of
manifestation of ignoring or notproperly understanding the
principle of it's not what yousay, but it's about what the
(07:51):
other person heard.
I hope that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Oh no, it makes perfect sense.
And I have learned and again,whether it's been through my
coaching or speaking, I havestopped and said, okay, let me
repeat, let me see if I heardyou correctly, and then I'll
repeat what I thought they hadsaid or what I thought I had
(08:14):
heard.
And I said I just want toclarify that this is what you
meant.
And then that gives them theopportunity to go back and say,
well, yes, but I meant this, orno, this is what I meant to say.
So I give them an opportunity.
So, as a listener and that's askill in itself is being a good
listener and also being able tocommunicate is stopping and
(08:38):
trying to filter out and hearwhat that person said, or I
should say, listen to what thatperson said and then clarify it.
But as the communicator and thespeaker, a lot of times I may
follow it up with a question tosee if they actually heard the
point I'm trying to get across,if they understood it.
The other element I want to askyou about is how often do you
find, when people arecommunicating, that they react
(09:02):
instead of responding?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Very often it happens all the time.
I actually have a speech onthat, on how to get through to
everyone, and I'm talking aboutsomething very important there
that is called the amygdalahijack, and the amygdala hijack
was quoted first time by I'mjust names keeps me but it's the
person that actually inventedmotion intelligence and it's a
(09:31):
very well documented Phenomenonin the world of of your
psychology and the idea of it isthat every time we feel
threatened somehow, if there isa part in our oldest part of our
brain, the reptile brain that'scalled the amygdala, and the
(09:56):
amygdala actually comes fromGreek amygdala.
In Greek it actually meansalmond, because it's almond
shaped is a part of our brainand it gets activated every time
we feel threatened.
So that's this one wouldperceive a threat.
Now that the oldest part of ourbrain is also responsible for
(10:19):
things like fight, flight orfreeze, all sorts of automatic
processes we don't necessarilyhave a lot of direct control
over, as opposed to the newestpart of our brain, for example
prefrontal cortex, that isresponsible for rational and
logical thinking and we'llcommunicate with people.
We generally, especially inwork environments, would like
(10:40):
them to stay in that newprefrontal cortex kind of part
Now, so we want to keep themaway from the amygdala.
What happens, though, is themoment someone's feel threatened
, feels threatened, the amygdalagets activated and it hijacks
the conversation communication.
(11:01):
So this is when we see, as yousaid, people reacting rather
than responding because they areon impulse control.
They don't have very goodimpulse control in that moment.
They're just being emotional,and the most deliberate,
systematic approach to bringthem back to some sort of
(11:22):
logical, rational way ofthinking is futile, so hence,
hence why we we talk about theamygdala hijack and ways of
bypassing that, and a good wayof doing that is absolutely, as
you said, checking in with theperson.
One of the ways, of course.
Checking in with the personwhere you heard, did you
(11:44):
understand what they meant tosay?
And it actually shows to them agood intention behind it, that
your intention Is not to react,not to go to attack them, but
yours, your intention is tounderstand them, which is in
very short supply nowadays, ishugely appreciated most of the
(12:05):
times.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Well, and I think what happens is people get so
excited about what they have tosay because they're passionate
about it or what they're ever.
Whatever they're going throughat the time, they're just.
They're just.
It's just coming out there andthey're not really thinking
about what's being said and howthey're really communicating.
To get that across, first ofall, when you said the thing
about that is the shape of thealmond, I'm like, well, no
(12:29):
wonder people think I'm not.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Absolutely well, that's a good way.
Actually, you know what?
I've never heard of this beforeas a concept.
I don't know I'm maybe I'llquote you, but I'm gonna steal
this to say that's why peopleare not when they're activated,
absolutely they don't behavenuts, absolutely well, it makes
sense.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
so I want to get back to your acting, because that's
a form of communication,especially on stage, because you
have to be very animated.
And I know for myself I sharewith you off air that when I do
a lot of keynote speaking, thatpeople Listen or they learn
through different elements someis through audio, some is
(13:16):
through seeing, some is throughdoing you know and some is just
have you know absolutely has tobe hands on.
So I know, as a keynote speaker, when I'm on stage, I said I'm
very animated because I want tobe able to cover every single
one of those elements when I'mspeaking.
What would you suggest?
When someone is standing,obviously communicating either
(13:39):
with with an individual or witha group or, like in business,
what are the most importantthings that they should keep in
mind when they are communicatingwith that eclectic type of
people to get their point across?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
What should they be keeping in mind?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Well, I think when I'm standing and speaking to a
group of people, there's peoplethat learn by hearing, seeing,
doing or they have to touch it.
But when you're standing onstage, you have to be able to
communicate more clearly becauseobviously they're not coming up
and hands on with me.
So how would you get across asa communicator, communicating to
(14:20):
those different types of people, to be able to make it clear on
what you're saying, to get yourpoint across or to get your
message to these people?
Is there different elements orstructures that you can do.
I'm not even communicating whatI'm trying to say it's okay,
you're doing great.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
You're doing great Absolutely.
So the first thing is youmentioned different kinds of
people and I will say generally,because of the principle that I
mentioned earlier, the firstthing you do when you're doing
any sorts of public speaking, orcommunicating, for that matter,
is if you can see how muchinformation you have about the
(15:04):
people you're speaking to.
So, start conducting some sortof an audience analysis of who
they are, because the samemessage needs to be communicated
differently to different kindsof people.
This is something that has beenthat a lot of people in the
marketing world know very, verywell when we're dealing, for
example, with targetingdifferent specific groups and
(15:28):
nowadays, social media.
A lot of companies have so muchinformation about us, so they
craft the messaging to appeal tothe way our brain works.
So that first thing is this ishow you need to first of all
customize your material for thepeople that you're speaking to,
not what you think is best.
I say sometimes, if you gofishing, your debate needs to be
(15:52):
tasty to the fish, not to you,and that's the mistake we tend
to go.
Oh yeah, I love this, let meput some pasta on the as the
bait, and no fish goes anywherenear it.
So, again, it's aboutunderstanding how they think
rather than how what you think.
But in terms of specificallyadjusting your communication for
(16:14):
public speaking, I would sayspecifically, one of the biggest
, the two biggest componentsjust from the top of my head is
one is size.
So we need to understand thateverything needs to be bigger if
you're on stage, assuming thatyou have a reasonable sized
audience.
So we're not talking about fivepeople, we're talking about
(16:36):
more, right, we're talking about50 or 100 or more.
The other thing, the otherquestion I would ask is is my
voice going to be amplified?
Because if there's no mics,then I need to be projecting my
voice again.
It's size, but it's easybecause my voice, the good, good
, good speakers understand thatif my voice needs to is
(16:59):
amplified, I don't need toproject my voice.
So then I'm able to have aconversation with my voice while
I have using body language thatsuits the size of the space I'm
in and that can be challengingto do at first, but it's a
technique that you can betrained in, I would say.
The other component is thateverything needs to be a little
(17:21):
bit clearer and a little bitslower, because generally big
groups move and think slower.
We tend to go okay, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, and it'sjust like oh, calm down, wait.
If you've cracked a joke, youneed to wait until they're done
laughing before you continuespeaking.
(17:42):
There needs to be kind of like,different, so do.
Time gets distorted, especiallywhen a lot of us are nervous
around when we're in front ofpeople, we think fast and then
we start moving fast, which goesagainst what we need to be
doing, which is actually slowingdown.
So I would say time getsdistorted and space needs to
(18:04):
open up.
These are the two big, bigdifferences.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
As you are moving towards public speaking, Well,
the other communication skillthat I think is lacking is the
communication between twoindividuals.
You know, I mean where, whereis the?
You know the keynote speakingis, and I understand that with
the timing and everything else,and that's that's a great
element.
I want to go, I want tobacktrack on that and say, yes,
(18:28):
I heard everything you said andthose are.
That's great insight.
But I'm also thinking, whenpeople come up to me later on,
that one-on-one communication,or even just in a relationship,
or a communication between youand your significant other, or
even communication between youand your children, it really has
the same type of element,because you need to stop, think
(18:51):
about what you're going to say,to be able to communicate it in
the direct Aspect so theyunderstand it and hear it
correctly, or take intoconsideration what they may be
thinking or needing at the time,to be able to articulate your
communication clearly.
I mean, doesn't it kind of workhand in hand?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Absolutely and what?
What you're referring to thereis, it's called it's in the
world of interpersonalcommunication.
Interpersonal means basicallytwo people talking to each other
and I would say, yes, we needto think clearly before we speak
.
I also want to say, as a coach,I live in the real world rather
(19:36):
than the world of theory, and Iwould say it's also unrealistic
to expect everyone to thinkvery carefully before they open
their mouth the whole time 24seven.
We are emotional humans and weare impulsive humans sometimes
and and I think this is where itgets a little bit more
(19:59):
challenging to say, oh yeah, youknow I'm hungry, the my kids
are screaming at the back of thecar and you know my Husband or
wife or whatever calls me, mypartner calls me, and they pick
up the phone, they ask me to doone more thing today and I
(20:20):
expect to think very carefully,you know, as I am breathing,
taking conscious breaths, as Ihave the kids screaming and as
I'm navigating rush hour trafficand Give a very well structured
and calm and composed answer tomy partner.
It's a little bit unrealistic.
So this is, this is when westart moving, I would say, from
(20:45):
interpersonal to intrapersonal,and Intrapersonal communication
is the communication with youhave with yourself.
And in that moment, it'simportant to the after you snap,
because you likely to snap.
Let's be honest, after you snap, to kind of go back and say,
(21:06):
hey, reflect within yourself andgo hmm, I didn't handle this
very well.
And then, based on yourprinciples, your morals, who you
are, you're going to actaccordingly Either, for example,
share it with a person to say,hey, I'm so sorry, that was not
okay.
I'm realizing this now.
You know, like, can we build abridge?
(21:27):
I understand that was not okay.
Or, if you have differentprinciples or or or something
else, that you may choose tohide it or Whatever continuous.
If it is not happening, brushit under the carpet, being
scared of the other person'sresponse, whatever it is, you
take the appropriate action andwhatever it is for you.
But it's important to to alsounderstand that, to live in the
(21:51):
real world and understand thatthis is the theory.
Yes, absolutely, and there's achance that in our everyday life
, will fall short of that, andwe need to be kind of ourselves
rather than getting a whip andstart whipping ourselves going,
oh, I didn't do that, it's okay.
Like all of us go through this.
I go through this myself, likeI also have arguments and I also
misbehaved.
(22:11):
Then I go and apologize andit's okay.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Oh yeah, I mean, that's just human nature.
You know we're gonna say thingsthat we don't mean based on the
like you said, that emotionalpressure cooker.
You know, when you're like yousaid, you're at your last straw.
No, I can't take one more thing.
And and you're right.
Then it comes back down to yourvalues.
I would say the majority I meanin, in looking at just as a
blanket type of thing on aneveryday occasion would pump.
(22:35):
You know, taking out the stressor just communicating, whether
it's with your, your family orcoworkers, the the key elements
to communication.
And and I'll give us, I'll giveyou, we got another up, another
another five minutes.
So why don't you give us kindof maybe five steps or three
steps, how many you think thatpeople could take away that says
(22:57):
, okay, this is something Icould work with today that could
help me as it, to communicatewhat I need to communicate with
my spousal coworkers or whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Good In interpersonal communication, would you say,
or or public speaking.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Personal personal okay, good.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
So in interpersonal communication, I will say that
the first thing to consider isis was what I said?
Just think from the perspectiveof the other person how they
receiving something.
The second thing is, as you are, as you are speaking to them,
(23:42):
notice what their reactions arethere.
And then, have you, have theylost interest?
Are they looking at their phone?
Are they looking away?
What?
What is happening?
Is it something that you're notcommunicating very well?
Perhaps these, these kind ofnon-verbal cues will tell you
whether that's actuallyhappening or not.
And Finally, the third thing isto not assume that your
(24:10):
understanding is correct.
So, active listening we callthis active listening to to make
sure that the other person,that your perception of the
other person, is accurate.
It could be that you ask themto clarify or specify something.
It could be that you are whatyou said earlier.
(24:33):
You just checking in with themlike, hey, I'm receiving this in
this way.
This is what I understand, isthat correct?
And there is nothing that willmake them.
We are in this world to be heardand to be witnessed and we
really get that.
So many, so much of thefrustration is when we being
(24:54):
talked at rather than beingtalked to or, even better, talk
with somebody else, really notreceiving that.
We receive sales calls.
We don't feel like we're beingunderstood.
People like pushing theiragenda on us all the time and
you will be so valued if youbegin to think of the other
(25:17):
person and listening, listeningto them and understand them and
speak from an honest place thatyou you will be so valued
straight away that you will alsobegin to forge more meaningful
relationships, whether it's withyour colleagues or people in
your personal life.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Thank you, that was, that was great, because a lot of
people don't understand thatand I think if they take those
steps it's going to change,changes everything, because I
really think relationships fallapart and the basis is
communication.
Either they're not expressingwhat they they really mean they
need, or you know again, likeyou said, listening, you know
(25:59):
and having that, and it's a twoway street.
They always say you know,communications a two way street.
Well, I have had so much funwith you and you have been great
and allowing me to just be meand my, of course, can we get?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
is it okay if I, if I share what we were saying
earlier?
Yeah, before we startedrecording kind of mentioned like
hey, I'm from new york and Ispeak in this way and all of
that, and I said like we shouldnot have One specific way of
communicating with each other.
It is important for everyonewho's listening to understand
(26:37):
that it's okay for thepersonality to come through as
they communicate.
I'm not advocating for allpublic speakers or all speakers
to sound exactly the same.
It would have been a very, veryboring world.
So, of course, have theaudience in mind, but it's so
important that you and yourpersonality also shines through
(26:58):
when you communicate is sovaluable.
So absolutely Sorry for takingthat extra time.
I just thought it was importantfor me.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
I'm glad you did, because I think what you offer
is very important and I wonderif I know, please, please,
please, reach out to the maintree.
All the links are going to bedown embedded in the podcast if
you listen to the podcast, butalso they'll be embedded into
the youtube channel.
I want you to reach out to himbecause I think His, his insight
and what he has to offer isvery valuable, whether you're
(27:28):
doing it for business, with youdoing personally.
You know we're even just acouple tips on to learn how to
communicate and listen.
You know, even for yourself,it's going to make your life so
much better and I was wonderingto me treat, how much do we miss
out on?
Because I'm listening skillsare so wrapped up in what we
want to say next in our headthat we didn't even hear we miss
(27:51):
out on something so valuable,so important.
You know that's gonna beanother podcast.
I got to have you back for thatone.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Another time, not our old thing exactly, thank you.
Thank you so much for having meas well.
You you, I mean You've been agreat host.
It was so easy to just go onthe fly and just ask these
questions.
It was great, was havingconversation really enjoyed it,
thank you it was fun.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Thank you so much.
So thank you for you guys forbeing with us.
I am so grateful that you arehere.
Please, please, please, reachout to me tree again.
The information is down in thelinks, and I love the fact that
you guys communicate not onlywith me what you're looking for,
but also the suggestions on whoyou'd like to have on.
So until then, remember, themost courageous thing you can do
is be yourself.
(28:34):
Until our next podcast, we'llsee ya.
Hey, I'm Coach Mickey and I'm so glad that you've
joined us, and if this is yourfirst time joining us, come on
in to make yourself comfortable.
For those of you that joined uson a regular basis, I am so glad
that you do.
Thank you so much for alwaysreaching out to our guests with
your comments, your questionsand your suggestions of people
you'd like to hear, not only onthis podcast but on my YouTube
channel, and we have had aplethora of incredible,
(00:23):
incredible guests that have comeon, and I am so grateful for
each and every one of thembecause they always got
something to share that I findvaluable, that not only helps me
as an individual, but alsogives you a little something
that you can take within yourlife and help you.
And today I'm really excited.
This is gonna be fun because,being a gal from New York and,
(00:44):
as you know, on my podcasts andmy YouTube channels, sometimes I
speak very fast, sometimes Idon't finish a sentence,
sometimes I laugh at what I'msaying, so I am really thrilled
to have on today Dimitri, who isa communication specialist, and
what he does is he has amission to help people how to
(01:06):
communicate with more confidenceand be more confident in their
communication, so we're gonnahave fun with you today.
Dimitri, how are you?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Hi, I'm Mickey, and thank you for having me as well.
I'm doing great today.
Actually, it's been arelatively chill day today, so
I'm getting things done one at atime.
Thank you for having me andthank you for this wonderful
introduction as well.
I appreciate being a guest here.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Well, I'm thrilled to have you.
As I know and I've heard fromnot only my friends, but also I
call my circle of friends hereon the podcast and on the
YouTube channel they're like, ohmy gosh, you speak so fast.
However, I've learned to slowdown, I've learned to try to
think before the process goesfrom my brain to my mouth, which
isn't always happening, so I'vegot to ask you.
(02:04):
Well, first of all, I wannaback up, tell me your story.
How did you get involved withthis?
How did this become yourpassion and your mission in life
to be able to help people tocommunicate.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, so I've always had this bug in communication, I
think because of my environment.
Both my parents, I feel, arevery.
They don't speak the samelanguage necessarily, and so I
always had this bug and thiscuriosity about how people
communicate with each other ingeneral.
But at first, actually, mybackground is in more performing
(02:40):
arts, so I actually I'moriginally Greek, but at the age
of just before 18, around 18, Imoved to London.
I'm a UK and I studied theater.
I have my first degree intheater and then I did a second
degree, a master's degree in inacting actually, and then I
(03:01):
started acting in London and Idid that for about five years
and that was I really enjoyed it, mostly stage stuff rather than
film stuff, but I did a bit ofscreen as well and there was
something inside of me that feltthat I needed more.
And it sounds a bit crazy,because a lot of people really
(03:22):
dream of becoming actors andkind of like making it and going
on stage and doing all of thatstuff, and part of me had that.
But I also felt like I wanted tobe more creative and somehow I
felt I wanted to be more helpfulin some ways and so I did a
(03:43):
third degree, I suppose a thirddegree, another master's degree,
in voice studies, incommunication, verbal, vocal
communication basically and thatwas a two-year MFA program
where we go into the tangiblesof voice, if you like, so
physiology, anatomy, acoustics,the science of it, if you like,
(04:05):
and also the untangible, themore artistic elements of voice
as a sense of identity and whowe are and how we express
ourselves and how personal ourcommunication is.
And so I did that, graduatedand then I started my practice
and I've been training speakers,I've been training actors, I've
(04:29):
been training journalists,people who have communication at
the heart of their practice.
Ever since, and about almostthree years ago, I moved to the
US, in LA, california, and I'vebeen continuing doing my
business here and I've beenhaving a great, great time doing
so.
It's been an honor dealing withpeople's personal stories and a
(04:53):
huge responsibility in beingcareful and sensitive as I
handle them as well in mypractice.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Wow, that's dealing with a lot of different
personalities in an eclecticgroup.
I mean, I'm not just speakingabout LA, but coming from Greece
, then to London and then fromLondon here to the US.
So you really have had agrouping of different cultures,
different beliefs, different,like you said, dialects.
(05:22):
So all that pulling it together.
Let me ask you this what do youfind is the most common thing
or common denominator,especially across the board?
I mean, regardless of whatculture or background that
somebody has?
That you find is the strugglewith communication.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Good question.
I would say the most commonstruggles are usually
manifestations of manifestationsof a very important rule in
communication, or breaking thatrule, and that rule is that it
doesn't matter what you say orwhat the other person hears.
(06:05):
So if, for example, we'retalking about you mentioned
earlier that you, you knowyou're speaking fast, or a lot
of people speak fast,communication happens on the
terms of the listeners terms.
Basically.
So fast is not fast to you,Fast is fast for the listener.
(06:26):
So, in order to preventcognitive overload, very often
we need to think about what isthe pace that the listener can
process information and thenspeak at that pace.
So that is like onemanifestation, other
manifestations.
You can hear it when people saywell, I told you this and
(06:47):
that's what you said.
That can absolutely be true, itdoesn't matter.
It doesn't mean that that'swhat I heard and that's what
they heard.
Your listeners heard.
It could be that you mumbledyour words.
It could be that you explainedit in a very convoluted,
complicated way.
It could be that you were notprojecting your voice or they
(07:08):
didn't hear it, or it could bedown to them.
I always, sometimes I teachworkshops straight after lunch
and all the blood is goingstraight to people's stomachs
and they're not really focusing.
They're getting sleepy.
It could be that they'reoverstressed so they didn't hear
it or they had something elsein their minds.
It could be there'sneurodiversity.
(07:29):
It could be that they've gotADHD and their attention is
somewhere else.
There are so many factors thataffect that can give birth to
unwanted misunderstandings, andthere are usually some sort of
manifestation of ignoring or notproperly understanding the
principle of it's not what yousay, but it's about what the
(07:51):
other person heard.
I hope that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Oh no, it makes perfect sense.
And I have learned and again,whether it's been through my
coaching or speaking, I havestopped and said, okay, let me
repeat, let me see if I heardyou correctly, and then I'll
repeat what I thought they hadsaid or what I thought I had
(08:14):
heard.
And I said I just want toclarify that this is what you
meant.
And then that gives them theopportunity to go back and say,
well, yes, but I meant this, orno, this is what I meant to say.
So I give them an opportunity.
So, as a listener and that's askill in itself is being a good
listener and also being able tocommunicate is stopping and
(08:38):
trying to filter out and hearwhat that person said, or I
should say, listen to what thatperson said and then clarify it.
But as the communicator and thespeaker, a lot of times I may
follow it up with a question tosee if they actually heard the
point I'm trying to get across,if they understood it.
The other element I want to askyou about is how often do you
find, when people arecommunicating, that they react
(09:02):
instead of responding?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Very often it happens all the time.
I actually have a speech onthat, on how to get through to
everyone, and I'm talking aboutsomething very important there
that is called the amygdalahijack, and the amygdala hijack
was quoted first time by I'mjust names keeps me but it's the
person that actually inventedmotion intelligence and it's a
(09:31):
very well documented Phenomenonin the world of of your
psychology and the idea of it isthat every time we feel
threatened somehow, if there isa part in our oldest part of our
brain, the reptile brain that'scalled the amygdala, and the
(09:56):
amygdala actually comes fromGreek amygdala.
In Greek it actually meansalmond, because it's almond
shaped is a part of our brainand it gets activated every time
we feel threatened.
So that's this one wouldperceive a threat.
Now that the oldest part of ourbrain is also responsible for
(10:19):
things like fight, flight orfreeze, all sorts of automatic
processes we don't necessarilyhave a lot of direct control
over, as opposed to the newestpart of our brain, for example
prefrontal cortex, that isresponsible for rational and
logical thinking and we'llcommunicate with people.
We generally, especially inwork environments, would like
(10:40):
them to stay in that newprefrontal cortex kind of part
Now, so we want to keep themaway from the amygdala.
What happens, though, is themoment someone's feel threatened
, feels threatened, the amygdalagets activated and it hijacks
the conversation communication.
(11:01):
So this is when we see, as yousaid, people reacting rather
than responding because they areon impulse control.
They don't have very goodimpulse control in that moment.
They're just being emotional,and the most deliberate,
systematic approach to bringthem back to some sort of
(11:22):
logical, rational way ofthinking is futile, so hence,
hence why we we talk about theamygdala hijack and ways of
bypassing that, and a good wayof doing that is absolutely, as
you said, checking in with theperson.
One of the ways, of course.
Checking in with the personwhere you heard, did you
(11:44):
understand what they meant tosay?
And it actually shows to them agood intention behind it, that
your intention Is not to react,not to go to attack them, but
yours, your intention is tounderstand them, which is in
very short supply nowadays, ishugely appreciated most of the
(12:05):
times.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Well, and I think what happens is people get so
excited about what they have tosay because they're passionate
about it or what they're ever.
Whatever they're going throughat the time, they're just.
They're just.
It's just coming out there andthey're not really thinking
about what's being said and howthey're really communicating.
To get that across, first ofall, when you said the thing
about that is the shape of thealmond, I'm like, well, no
(12:29):
wonder people think I'm not.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Absolutely well, that's a good way.
Actually, you know what?
I've never heard of this beforeas a concept.
I don't know I'm maybe I'llquote you, but I'm gonna steal
this to say that's why peopleare not when they're activated,
absolutely they don't behavenuts, absolutely well, it makes
sense.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
so I want to get back to your acting, because that's
a form of communication,especially on stage, because you
have to be very animated.
And I know for myself I sharewith you off air that when I do
a lot of keynote speaking, thatpeople Listen or they learn
through different elements someis through audio, some is
(13:16):
through seeing, some is throughdoing you know and some is just
have you know absolutely has tobe hands on.
So I know, as a keynote speaker, when I'm on stage, I said I'm
very animated because I want tobe able to cover every single
one of those elements when I'mspeaking.
What would you suggest?
When someone is standing,obviously communicating either
(13:39):
with with an individual or witha group or, like in business,
what are the most importantthings that they should keep in
mind when they are communicatingwith that eclectic type of
people to get their point across?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
What should they be keeping in mind?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Well, I think when I'm standing and speaking to a
group of people, there's peoplethat learn by hearing, seeing,
doing or they have to touch it.
But when you're standing onstage, you have to be able to
communicate more clearly becauseobviously they're not coming up
and hands on with me.
So how would you get across asa communicator, communicating to
(14:20):
those different types of people, to be able to make it clear on
what you're saying, to get yourpoint across or to get your
message to these people?
Is there different elements orstructures that you can do.
I'm not even communicating whatI'm trying to say it's okay,
you're doing great.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
You're doing great Absolutely.
So the first thing is youmentioned different kinds of
people and I will say generally,because of the principle that I
mentioned earlier, the firstthing you do when you're doing
any sorts of public speaking, orcommunicating, for that matter,
is if you can see how muchinformation you have about the
(15:04):
people you're speaking to.
So, start conducting some sortof an audience analysis of who
they are, because the samemessage needs to be communicated
differently to different kindsof people.
This is something that has beenthat a lot of people in the
marketing world know very, verywell when we're dealing, for
example, with targetingdifferent specific groups and
(15:28):
nowadays, social media.
A lot of companies have so muchinformation about us, so they
craft the messaging to appeal tothe way our brain works.
So that first thing is this ishow you need to first of all
customize your material for thepeople that you're speaking to,
not what you think is best.
I say sometimes, if you gofishing, your debate needs to be
(15:52):
tasty to the fish, not to you,and that's the mistake we tend
to go.
Oh yeah, I love this, let meput some pasta on the as the
bait, and no fish goes anywherenear it.
So, again, it's aboutunderstanding how they think
rather than how what you think.
But in terms of specificallyadjusting your communication for
(16:14):
public speaking, I would sayspecifically, one of the biggest
, the two biggest componentsjust from the top of my head is
one is size.
So we need to understand thateverything needs to be bigger if
you're on stage, assuming thatyou have a reasonable sized
audience.
So we're not talking about fivepeople, we're talking about
(16:36):
more, right, we're talking about50 or 100 or more.
The other thing, the otherquestion I would ask is is my
voice going to be amplified?
Because if there's no mics,then I need to be projecting my
voice again.
It's size, but it's easybecause my voice, the good, good
, good speakers understand thatif my voice needs to is
(16:59):
amplified, I don't need toproject my voice.
So then I'm able to have aconversation with my voice while
I have using body language thatsuits the size of the space I'm
in and that can be challengingto do at first, but it's a
technique that you can betrained in, I would say.
The other component is thateverything needs to be a little
(17:21):
bit clearer and a little bitslower, because generally big
groups move and think slower.
We tend to go okay, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, and it'sjust like oh, calm down, wait.
If you've cracked a joke, youneed to wait until they're done
laughing before you continuespeaking.
(17:42):
There needs to be kind of like,different, so do.
Time gets distorted, especiallywhen a lot of us are nervous
around when we're in front ofpeople, we think fast and then
we start moving fast, which goesagainst what we need to be
doing, which is actually slowingdown.
So I would say time getsdistorted and space needs to
(18:04):
open up.
These are the two big, bigdifferences.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
As you are moving towards public speaking, Well,
the other communication skillthat I think is lacking is the
communication between twoindividuals.
You know, I mean where, whereis the?
You know the keynote speakingis, and I understand that with
the timing and everything else,and that's that's a great
element.
I want to go, I want tobacktrack on that and say, yes,
(18:28):
I heard everything you said andthose are.
That's great insight.
But I'm also thinking, whenpeople come up to me later on,
that one-on-one communication,or even just in a relationship,
or a communication between youand your significant other, or
even communication between youand your children, it really has
the same type of element,because you need to stop, think
(18:51):
about what you're going to say,to be able to communicate it in
the direct Aspect so theyunderstand it and hear it
correctly, or take intoconsideration what they may be
thinking or needing at the time,to be able to articulate your
communication clearly.
I mean, doesn't it kind of workhand in hand?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Absolutely and what?
What you're referring to thereis, it's called it's in the
world of interpersonalcommunication.
Interpersonal means basicallytwo people talking to each other
and I would say, yes, we needto think clearly before we speak
.
I also want to say, as a coach,I live in the real world rather
(19:36):
than the world of theory, and Iwould say it's also unrealistic
to expect everyone to thinkvery carefully before they open
their mouth the whole time 24seven.
We are emotional humans and weare impulsive humans sometimes
and and I think this is where itgets a little bit more
(19:59):
challenging to say, oh yeah, youknow I'm hungry, the my kids
are screaming at the back of thecar and you know my Husband or
wife or whatever calls me, mypartner calls me, and they pick
up the phone, they ask me to doone more thing today and I
(20:20):
expect to think very carefully,you know, as I am breathing,
taking conscious breaths, as Ihave the kids screaming and as
I'm navigating rush hour trafficand Give a very well structured
and calm and composed answer tomy partner.
It's a little bit unrealistic.
So this is, this is when westart moving, I would say, from
(20:45):
interpersonal to intrapersonal,and Intrapersonal communication
is the communication with youhave with yourself.
And in that moment, it'simportant to the after you snap,
because you likely to snap.
Let's be honest, after you snap, to kind of go back and say,
(21:06):
hey, reflect within yourself andgo hmm, I didn't handle this
very well.
And then, based on yourprinciples, your morals, who you
are, you're going to actaccordingly Either, for example,
share it with a person to say,hey, I'm so sorry, that was not
okay.
I'm realizing this now.
You know, like, can we build abridge?
(21:27):
I understand that was not okay.
Or, if you have differentprinciples or or or something
else, that you may choose tohide it or Whatever continuous.
If it is not happening, brushit under the carpet, being
scared of the other person'sresponse, whatever it is, you
take the appropriate action andwhatever it is for you.
But it's important to to alsounderstand that, to live in the
(21:51):
real world and understand thatthis is the theory.
Yes, absolutely, and there's achance that in our everyday life
, will fall short of that, andwe need to be kind of ourselves
rather than getting a whip andstart whipping ourselves going,
oh, I didn't do that, it's okay.
Like all of us go through this.
I go through this myself, likeI also have arguments and I also
misbehaved.
(22:11):
Then I go and apologize andit's okay.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Oh yeah, I mean, that's just human nature.
You know we're gonna say thingsthat we don't mean based on the
like you said, that emotionalpressure cooker.
You know, when you're like yousaid, you're at your last straw.
No, I can't take one more thing.
And and you're right.
Then it comes back down to yourvalues.
I would say the majority I meanin, in looking at just as a
blanket type of thing on aneveryday occasion would pump.
(22:35):
You know, taking out the stressor just communicating, whether
it's with your, your family orcoworkers, the the key elements
to communication.
And and I'll give us, I'll giveyou, we got another up, another
another five minutes.
So why don't you give us kindof maybe five steps or three
steps, how many you think thatpeople could take away that says
(22:57):
, okay, this is something Icould work with today that could
help me as it, to communicatewhat I need to communicate with
my spousal coworkers or whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Good In interpersonal communication, would you say,
or or public speaking.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Personal personal okay, good.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
So in interpersonal communication, I will say that
the first thing to consider isis was what I said?
Just think from the perspectiveof the other person how they
receiving something.
The second thing is, as you are, as you are speaking to them,
(23:42):
notice what their reactions arethere.
And then, have you, have theylost interest?
Are they looking at their phone?
Are they looking away?
What?
What is happening?
Is it something that you're notcommunicating very well?
Perhaps these, these kind ofnon-verbal cues will tell you
whether that's actuallyhappening or not.
And Finally, the third thing isto not assume that your
(24:10):
understanding is correct.
So, active listening we callthis active listening to to make
sure that the other person,that your perception of the
other person, is accurate.
It could be that you ask themto clarify or specify something.
It could be that you are whatyou said earlier.
(24:33):
You just checking in with themlike, hey, I'm receiving this in
this way.
This is what I understand, isthat correct?
And there is nothing that willmake them.
We are in this world to be heardand to be witnessed and we
really get that.
So many, so much of thefrustration is when we being
(24:54):
talked at rather than beingtalked to or, even better, talk
with somebody else, really notreceiving that.
We receive sales calls.
We don't feel like we're beingunderstood.
People like pushing theiragenda on us all the time and
you will be so valued if youbegin to think of the other
(25:17):
person and listening, listeningto them and understand them and
speak from an honest place thatyou you will be so valued
straight away that you will alsobegin to forge more meaningful
relationships, whether it's withyour colleagues or people in
your personal life.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Thank you, that was, that was great, because a lot of
people don't understand thatand I think if they take those
steps it's going to change,changes everything, because I
really think relationships fallapart and the basis is
communication.
Either they're not expressingwhat they they really mean they
need, or you know again, likeyou said, listening, you know
(25:59):
and having that, and it's a twoway street.
They always say you know,communications a two way street.
Well, I have had so much funwith you and you have been great
and allowing me to just be meand my, of course, can we get?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
is it okay if I, if I share what we were saying
earlier?
Yeah, before we startedrecording kind of mentioned like
hey, I'm from new york and Ispeak in this way and all of
that, and I said like we shouldnot have One specific way of
communicating with each other.
It is important for everyonewho's listening to understand
(26:37):
that it's okay for thepersonality to come through as
they communicate.
I'm not advocating for allpublic speakers or all speakers
to sound exactly the same.
It would have been a very, veryboring world.
So, of course, have theaudience in mind, but it's so
important that you and yourpersonality also shines through
(26:58):
when you communicate is sovaluable.
So absolutely Sorry for takingthat extra time.
I just thought it was importantfor me.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
I'm glad you did, because I think what you offer
is very important and I wonderif I know, please, please,
please, reach out to the maintree.
All the links are going to bedown embedded in the podcast if
you listen to the podcast, butalso they'll be embedded into
the youtube channel.
I want you to reach out to himbecause I think His, his insight
and what he has to offer isvery valuable, whether you're
(27:28):
doing it for business, with youdoing personally.
You know we're even just acouple tips on to learn how to
communicate and listen.
You know, even for yourself,it's going to make your life so
much better and I was wonderingto me treat, how much do we miss
out on?
Because I'm listening skillsare so wrapped up in what we
want to say next in our headthat we didn't even hear we miss
(27:51):
out on something so valuable,so important.
You know that's gonna beanother podcast.
I got to have you back for thatone.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Another time, not our old thing exactly, thank you.
Thank you so much for having meas well.
You you, I mean You've been agreat host.
It was so easy to just go onthe fly and just ask these
questions.
It was great, was havingconversation really enjoyed it,
thank you it was fun.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Thank you so much.
So thank you for you guys forbeing with us.
I am so grateful that you arehere.
Please, please, please, reachout to me tree again.
The information is down in thelinks, and I love the fact that
you guys communicate not onlywith me what you're looking for,
but also the suggestions on whoyou'd like to have on.
So until then, remember, themost courageous thing you can do
is be yourself.
(28:34):
Until our next podcast, we'llsee ya.
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