March 18, 2024 • 51 mins
When Brad, the mastermind behind the School of Grit, agreed to join us, I knew it was an opportunity to share a profound narrative of human resilience. His journey through the unforgiving Kokoro Camp, where he faced a 50-hour crucible that tested every fiber of his being, isn't just a story of endurance; it's a testament to the transformative power of extreme challenges. Together, we reflect on how these trials reveal character, forge mental toughness, and impart invaluable lessons for tackling life's battles. I also peel back the curtain on my own experiences, revealing how simulated crucible events have reshaped high school football training, turning teenage athletes into embodiments of courage and cooperation.
It's not just about being tough; it's about the relentless pursuit of long-term goals, fueled by a powerful "why." Brad and I lay out tangible strategies to cultivate this trait, from breath control to maintaining a positive mindset and embracing visualization. These are tools not confined to the elite athlete or warrior; they are accessible to anyone. Listeners will gain actionable insights on how to infuse their lives with these principles, enhancing their personal and professional journeys with the fortitude that defines success.
Learn more or contact Brad by visiting his website: https://schoolofgrit.org/
Are you an ATHLETE looking to take your training to the next level? Check out our website to learn more about 1-on-1 training opportunities:
mentaltrainingplan.com/athletes
Are you a COACH looking for an affordable year-round mental performance training program? Check out the MTP Academy available through our website:
mentaltrainingplan.com/academy
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ben (00:00):
Hey you welcome to the coaching minds podcast, the
official podcast of mentaltraining plan.
Joining us today, very specialguest who was recommended, a
connection made by close friendof both of ours, Steve Siebel,
who was actually on the show,episode number 91, talking about
coaching the mental side of thegame Steve does Steve does a
(00:20):
lot of what I do over on theEast Coast and he said hey,
there's this guy, his name isBrad, you guys got to have a
conversation and that was all hesaid.
And, sure enough, in ourinitial conversation I was super
excited about just the topic.
(00:40):
Brad's the founder of School ofGrit.
He's got a book out.
He works with adults.
He's going to be expanding,working with youth also.
Brad, thanks so much forjoining us on the show today.
Brad (00:53):
Yeah, thanks, ben.
It's a pleasure, it's an honorto be on, and so cool when
mutual friend can put ustogether.
Ben (00:59):
So shout out to Steve out there, he's listening where I
would love to start is the firstchapter of your book is
literally titled the crucible.
The crucible event wassomething that we started doing
when I was when I was stillcoaching at Westfield.
It was phenomenal.
We loved the addition of that.
(01:20):
We loved what kids got out ofit, kind of forced them to to
man up a little bit.
Would love to just hear yourexperience, because I know
you've kind of gone through thispersonally and then also just
sort of just sort of take usthrough, maybe introduce what is
it and why is it important?
Brad (01:39):
I chose to attend what I call School of Grit, and there's
lots of schools of grit.
If you look at them online,they're everywhere.
But a crucible to me issomething that's going to push
you, not just physically, butmentally, emotionally, right.
We're going to take you to aplace you've probably never been
before, so you can discover whoyou really are.
Sometimes that's good,sometimes that's bad, but at
(02:00):
least you got a baseline and youknow what to do, and we're
going to expose your weaknessesand we're going to practice
those weaknesses afterwards.
So that's my idea of thecrucible love here, and that you
all did that as part of yourfootball team.
I'd love to learn more aboutthat, absolutely.
But the crucible I chose to goto was called Kokoro Camp, and
that is put on by former NavySeal Commander Mark Devine,
(02:24):
mark's mentor of mine, and he'sbeen doing these camps.
Now I think he's on his 60thiteration of these camps, so a
number of years.
I went back in 2015.
And why I chose to go was Ijust took stock of my own life
and I guess I have somewhat of aunique perspective.
Life wasn't very hard for me.
I'm just going to throw it outthere.
(02:45):
Born and raised in Indiana,oldest to four played sports,
didn't have a hard time makingfriends.
Parents are still married, comefrom a very loving family.
We weren't rich, we weren'tpoor.
I knew the difference betweenboth.
But I'm not saying I was bornwith a silver spoon by any means
.
But we didn't have to fight forfood.
(03:07):
I didn't have to fight for roofover my head.
And, yeah, I'm just a proponentof bringing what I call
purposeful adversity into yourlife, because that's what
Shapeshia informs you andprepares you for the battlefield
of life.
We're all dealing with it,right?
Everybody you meet fighting abattle that you know nothing
about.
So why not prepare for that?
(03:29):
And a crucible is one way thatyou can prepare for it.
So I chose to go to this campthat was put on by Navy SEALs
and it's modeled after.
If you know anything about NavySEAL training, it's regarded as
some of the toughest trainingin the world and there's a part
inside that training called HellWeek, where candidates are up
for about a week with verylittle sleep and they're just
(03:53):
they're pushed to the brink.
So this was a 50 hour crucible.
So it started on a Friday youdidn't know what time and then
it ended sometime on Sunday, butI think we ended up being up
about 55 hours, zero sleep,minimal food, and man did it
push me to to the core.
So that's the, that's theoversight of it.
Ben (04:15):
Love that, and so the you know kind of similarly we put,
we put our players throughsomething.
Obviously it wasn't 50 hours,but the the first day of two of
days.
You can't really practice inpads anyway.
So we would go to this camp andwe would have kind of you could
kind of consider it like a Idon't know a bit of an obstacle
(04:38):
course race, kind of a you knowlittle bit of a tough, mudder
challenge, some Spartan racestuff mixed in there, but like
everything from, they had to getin a canoe and paddle, which
you know doesn't really seemlike that big of a deal.
I was surprised at the numberof kids though that we had that
were in tears because it's likeI can't swim.
(04:58):
I'm terrified of this, I don'twant anything to do with this.
They had to, you know, gothrough some muddy, nasty creeks
.
They had to carry a great bigtelephone pole.
They had to, you know, throw a50 pound weight down across this
football field.
They had to.
You know, the whole course waslike I don't know, three miles
(05:19):
long, four miles long.
They had to go find clues thatwere hidden underneath rocks in
a river.
They had.
You know, kids are losing shoesand shoes in the mud and the
muck.
There was this hill that theyhad to climb.
That was, I mean it was.
It was brutal, like guys aresliding down, falling into trees
(05:41):
, scuffing their knees on rocks,got kids are, you know, eating
a face full of dirt.
They're having to figure outhow can we get our entire team
across the line, how do we getour entire team up this hill?
And so we, we put them in thesechallenging, uncomfortable
situations, almost to the pointwhere it was like this is this
(06:02):
is going to push a lot of theseguys to this point of can I even
physically do this?
And you know there wereobviously some guys that were
much more athletic that a lot ofthese things weren't as
difficult, but they also had todeal with.
I can't just breeze throughthis on my own.
I've got to bring everyonealong with me.
(06:24):
So talk to me a little bitabout you know.
So we've got kind of thisbaseline of you know how you
guys did it or you know howwe've done it.
Let's, let's dive deeper,though, into like why and what
do you get out of this andwhat's the benefit on the other
side.
Brad (06:42):
So what are the big benefits of this was when I went
to the camp.
I would say I was very selfish.
It was about me, and that is.
That is one thing these typesof crucibles can inspire is is
true teamwork, and that is theidea of putting the person on
your left, to your right, takingcare of them first before
(07:04):
yourself.
And man, was that ingrainedinto us all weekend long because
we weren't gonna make it.
We just flat out weren't thethe, the events were signed,
they were, they were, theycalled them Evolutions.
The evolutions were set up in away where it required true
teamwork.
Like you're not gonna pick atelephone, pull up by yourself,
(07:25):
right, well, maybe one person,good.
But now you're not gonna getvery many reps Right, and you
could tell when you'reunderneath that Log, let's say,
and you're doing log PT, you cantell when someone's not putting
out, you know exactly who it is.
It's actually pretty easyevolution if everybody's working
hard.
You know If there's.
If the pull weighs 300 pounds,you got six people underneath it
.
Well, that's about 50 pounds.
(07:46):
Most people who are, you know,football players or whatever
they work out, they can probablyhandle that.
But as soon as someone Whits ordecides to take it easy, not so
much, and you can see that logshift you know, front, back,
side, side.
That's.
That's one of the big things Iloved out of.
It was just the true, you know,teamwork and and it's just
(08:08):
really the grit aspect out ofman Just digging down deep and
come in face-to-face with anobstacle or a scenario where you
think it's impossible, whenthey're telling you what you got
to do, and then you end updoing it because the team
together can do it.
So that was that was critical.
That was one of the biggestthings I learned out there.
It was taken, taken, gettingoutside of your own head.
(08:32):
You know when the going getstough, because everybody gets
broken too.
Let's just, let's just facts offacts.
Everybody's breakable.
If I tell you to go do airsquats for the next five minutes
, you're probably gonna break atsome point.
Right, it's not that hard tobreak someone.
But when you do break, where'syour mind go and what are you
looking at?
And and how are you trickingyourself into?
Keep moving forward, keepmaking a little bit of progress,
(08:53):
and that's a big one was justConcentrating on your buddy,
because that's we all had.
They call them swim buddies outthere, but that was your
partner and wherever you wentand they went with you, I don't
care if it was to the bathroomand if you ever got caught
without them, you were gonna.
You're gonna pay.
You're gonna pay the price, youknow in the book.
Ben (09:11):
You were talking about preparing the mind, and it
doesn't matter how physicallyfit you are, like you alluded to
.
You know, for some people thatmight be 10 push-ups or 50 or
100 or 200 like at some pointyou will break.
At some point these, thesesituations become so
uncomfortable, so unbearable youget, you have to wrestle with
(09:32):
why am I doing this?
Or this hurts, this sucks, Ilike I want to quit.
You've you said in the book,you got to control these
thoughts and your emotions ifyou're to push through any type
of adversity in life as you're.
You know, now, on the otherside of you're not just Going
through this on your own, butnow you're helping other people
go through this.
(09:53):
What are, what are some of theways that you teach?
You know that person who's inthe middle of wrestling with why
am I doing this?
This is awful.
What's, where's the kind ofthat starting point for you with
them?
Brad (10:07):
I think you just nailed it , and it's asking that question
of why, why are you here?
Ask them, especially ask themduring an event, during that
period where you know you cantell it's a suckfest, right,
they're practically crying orthey're putting out, or you
could tell facial facialexpressions, tell out, right,
all the groans and stuff.
Sometimes you pull them to theside if you, if you need to, and
(10:28):
just say what, why you doingthis?
See what they said.
You know, is it intrinsicallymotivated or is it external?
I'm doing it because my parentsare making me do it.
Okay, that's not a very goodreason, not saying you can't
make it, but if, if, if it'sintrinsically motivated, like,
hey, I want to be the bestVersion of myself that I can be
so I can go on and play, notonly for my team, but maybe go
(10:50):
play, you know, d1 ball,whatever you got, okay now.
Now you're on to somethingright, because that's gonna
drive you and and that's gonnainstill that discipline.
I didn't say motivation,because Motivation it to me is
crap.
It.
It comes and goes like the wind.
Basically, I got tons of daysI'm not motivated to get out of
(11:10):
bed.
Actually, today was one of them, because my kids had a at a two
hour delay, but it's importantto instill that discipline.
Just to say, no, got a, got toget up right.
Small little, small little winsThroughout the day and that's.
That's a big one, you know.
Just get out of bed sometimesfor people.
So, so, yeah, it's starting withwhy, and that's relatable to
(11:32):
anything, whether you're runninga side hustle business, whether
you're a coach, whatever askyour, I try to say, ask yourself
why, three to five times, andthat'll reveal, like, the real
reason You're doing something.
That's a pretty good littlepractice.
And then, likewise, if youcan't answer that well, maybe
(11:52):
you need to reflect on it.
Why is it that I'm having ahard time coming up with why I'm
doing this?
Or you know, this is, this isoutside of this crucible piece,
but maybe you got asked to dosomething and Doesn't make sense
anymore, right, does it fit?
You've moved on, so maybe it'stime to I'm gonna throw out the
cue, or maybe it's time to quit.
(12:13):
Quitting's not bad in somesituations.
I quit a lot of things in lifethat were good for me
relationships, all sorts ofdifferent things and that's
different than giving up, though, because giving up is.
Is that that's what you don'tdo right.
That's for something.
That's where you can't answerthat.
Why and you're so laser focusedon this exactly why I'm doing
it means so much.
(12:33):
It's like I'm never gonna giveup on that, but I might quit
things along the way in order topivot 100%.
Ben (12:40):
So you know, Talk to me a little bit about this word grit,
because you know I was a, I wasa teacher, I was in education
when Angela Duckworth, you know,wrote the book that so many
people use To define this word.
It became a pretty, prettybuzzy word in the realm of
(13:02):
education.
Talk to me a little bit about,maybe, a quick definition of
what is it, and then let's diveinto why is it so important.
Brad (13:14):
Let's do it.
So, angela Duckworth, she's oneof the one of the people that
got me rocking and rolling, so Iknow that.
Book it to Mitley.
And when I was in a place in mylife so I'm 44 right now I was
about 34 at the time I wasstruggling with Answering those
basic questions that come upinternally, questions like you
(13:38):
know, what's my purpose?
What am I here to do?
You know, is this, is this mycareer?
Is this what I should be doingor should be doing other things?
And I turned to the internet tohelp me answer that and After a
long time of reading blogs andstuff like that, came across
Angela's Ted talk.
And if you haven't seen that Tedtalk, it's, it's incredible.
It's only about six minutes andshe goes on to say that grit is
(14:00):
the leading indicator andpredictor of success in life.
And she gives all these reasonswhy, through all of her
research and all these folksshe's looked at, whether it was,
you know, west Point candidatesor People teaching math and
inner cities you know, you nameit.
What's what's gonna keepsomeone in the game, so to speak
?
And and grit came up and itgrit, something can be, that can
(14:22):
be grown, as she says, you cangrow from the inside out, you
can grow it from the outside in,and her definition of grit is
Passion and perseverance for along-term goal, which I think is
great.
I actually take it a stepfurther.
I actually have my owndefinition of grit, and that's
cool thing about grit is itmeans something different to
(14:43):
everyone.
So if you ask you, ask me, if Iask you, if you ask five other
people, you're probably gonnahave similar answers but
different words, and I've justI've come up with this over the
course of time.
So I'd say grit is uncommonperseverance in the face of
adversity, backed by a strongwhy to achieve a worthy goal.
That's like a four-parter andthat's a mouthful, but it's
(15:06):
uncommon perseverance.
So what I mean?
There is effort, because if youread her book, effort counts
twice.
You know, I'll take, I'll takework, hard work over talent,
pretty much any day of the week.
You know, in the face ofadversity, because that's when
it's gonna show.
You know, everybody wants to gofor a run when it's 70 degrees
outside, sun shining, you know.
(15:27):
Sure, suns out, guns out right.
But when it's when it's cold,like it has been in Indiana, and
it's zero and the windshield isnegative, it's very easy not to
get that workout in, very easyto sleep in a little bit.
So that's when it shows up, iswhen Adversity sets in back by a
strong why we just talked alittle bit about that.
(15:48):
You know why are you doinganything?
And they achieve a worthy goal.
You know you got to make sureyour goals are lining up with
where you think you're, you'regoing in life.
Some sometimes they are,sometimes they aren't, and it's
okay to pivot, like I said, it'sokay to quit things and move on
to different things.
It's perfectly okay as long asit aligns with that, with that
mission.
Ben (16:05):
So that's my own definition of grit so, as I, you
know, as I hear this as aparent, as a small business
owner, as a coach, you know thethe first thing that that pops
into my mind now is Perfect.
So now, how do we do this?
(16:26):
You know, we said grit can begrown.
Give me some.
Give me some concrete examplesyou know whether that's
boardroom football field, or youknow my own living room of how
this can be grown.
So maybe some, some concreteexamples.
Brad (16:45):
Yeah, so there's.
There's basically two bucketshere.
You can grow it from the insideout.
You can grow it from theoutside in.
So I'll start with inside out.
Inside out would be to me inlisting the help of, of a coach,
a Mentor, something like that,who's gonna help you work on on
more of the, the mental game,right, the emotional side,
(17:05):
because this isn't just physicalguys.
Physical is a part of it.
It's, it's definitely a part ofmy own coaching program, that
having the physicality, andthere's a reason for that.
But as you look at a wholeperson, I actually like to
divide them up into fivedifferent mountains.
It's what I call you gotphysical, mental, emotional
intuition and then your warriorspirit, and you know, working on
(17:28):
grit on the inside is is reallyexamining those different
pieces.
So a perfect example would beGrowing mental toughness.
Right, you hear your mentaltoughness all the time, right,
it's big, big buzzword.
So I've got four ways I trainthat specifically for your, for
your listeners out there, andthese aren't rocket science, but
(17:52):
if I guarantee, if you do themand you do them well, you will
see a gradual increase in yourgrit and in your mental
toughness.
So the first is I want to payattention to your breath.
I, as corny as that may sound,or if you think it's woo-woo,
but seriously pay attention toyour breath.
What are you doing Next timeyou're in a boardroom or you're
(18:15):
having a crucial conversation?
I almost guarantee you'reholding your breath when you get
asked or put on the spot orsomething like that.
And it's no different than insports.
When the clock starts windingdown and you know that blood
pressure rises and You're notplaying loose anymore, you're
stiffening up.
Check your breath.
You probably got a little bitof shortness of breath.
So just remember, take a deepbreath in and out.
(18:38):
There's all sorts of differentbreath exercises I teach, but
that's the most basic one.
Just just a little tacticalbreathing, right, two seconds in
, two seconds out.
If you can control yourpsychology I'm sorry if you can
control your physiology, you cancontrol your psychology, which
is the next piece.
So, now that I'm not onbreathing, I'm trying to take to
(19:01):
gain control.
I'm working on positivity,right, trying to be as positive
as I possibly can and realizingthat you know it could always be
worse.
Man, someone's always got itworse.
Even though something you knowsucky's happening right now,
there's a reason for it andsomething good can come out of
this.
So you know you're, you'rebreathing, you're staying
(19:24):
positive, which are huge.
Visualization is the next bigone that I teach to.
So this can be done pre event,can be done, post event, can
even be done during the event.
But I'll start with pre event.
Say it's a football game, orsay it's a big Board meeting,
like you said.
Maybe you're in sales andyou're meeting with a big client
(19:45):
.
I want you to actuallyvisualize yourself delivering
your sales presentation andbeing successful, because if you
can visualize it, if you cansee yourself doing it, then
you're gonna be able to do itfor real when, when the time
comes.
And then, last but not least, isproper goal-setting.
So you know, let's takefootball, football, four
(20:08):
quarters, let's play quarter toquarter to quarter.
Don't think about the wholegame.
You got to be, you got to beright here at this play, right
here.
You know, I want your minddrifting off, thinking about,
like, what we're gonna do in thethird quarter.
It's the first quarter.
You got to be present righthere, this next play.
All we need are these nextyards.
It's noted, that's no differentthan Ryan, a marathon.
(20:29):
And you know you're on mile,let's say 20 and you're
struggling, you're hurting andjust concentrating on the next
stop sign.
I'm running to that next street, that next group.
I can see ahead of me.
I'm just trying to get just alittle bit farther.
Same thing with your, with yourgoals.
If you got a, if you got adream of opening up your own
business, go do it and but Makeactionable steps.
(20:52):
You know, the first step couldjust be going to get your LLC do
the paperwork.
Then you got that done.
What's my next thing?
Breaking off those those biggoals into smaller chunks,
essentially.
So that's the, that's the bigfour mental toughness.
I teach to help increase gritfrom the inside out.
It's breath, positivity,visualization, goal setting and
(21:14):
then, likewise, growing gritfrom the outside in.
That's, that's the fun, that's.
That's also the fun part too.
That's attending a crucibleexperience.
That's that's putting.
That's putting yourself Intoareas where you're nervous,
You're a little bit scared to doit, but it's for good reason.
Okay, and it doesn't have to bephysical.
I just prefer physical becauseI think it's the easiest thing
(21:36):
to do.
It'll immediately get you rightthere and hit you adversely.
Hit you, and it's like.
You know what do I do when I,when I can't do another rep, or
I'm breaking, or I'm breaking,but it doesn't have to be that
it could be public speaking.
I know a lot of people have afear of public speaking or or a
podcasting or whatever.
Make yourself do it.
The more you do it, the betteryou're gonna get.
Ben (21:59):
Love that as you're kind of going through, you know, the,
the crucible, you're goingthrough Kokoro school, as you're
Experiencing these things andyou're kind of you're kind of
having this aha moment whereit's like this is awesome, this
is, this is changing my life,this is, this is incredible.
(22:20):
And you know you would you hadalluded to you couldn't just do
it on your own.
You are gonna have to bringothers with you as you think
about, you know, because the thehighly, the highly motivated
guys that just kind of get it.
That's, I think, as a coach,it's easier to coach that group.
(22:43):
What about the kid who's intears with mud on his face, that
just wants to hang it up andwants to quit on the side of
this hill and he's not sure thathe has what it takes, and his
teammates are pissed becausethey're not gonna win this event
, because they can't get hisbutt up this hill?
(23:04):
How do you, how do you interactwith, with, maybe, that group
of athletes?
How do you coach that group ofathletes?
What's the balance between Icome in with tough love and I
say let's go, we got a toughenough and we got to keep
pushing Versa versus?
You know at what point you wrapyour arm around the kid and say
, hey, you know, we got this,we're gonna, we're gonna be
alright, what's that?
(23:26):
What's that balance look like?
Maybe for those, those athletesthat we're coaching, that are
falling behind and, and in thatpool of doubt, still?
Brad (23:40):
I think the more those let's call them a, a plus
athletes, I think, the more thatthey can be the quote unquote
coach and and help that playerout, versus the actual coach,
the better off the team is goingto be.
A coach is absolutely vital indelivering the message, but the
(24:00):
best teams that I find are weare when you're, you know, your
best players are going to be notonly talented but they work
hard and they're completelybought in and they realize, hey,
it's not really about me, it'sreally about the team and the
way the whole team is going tolift itself up is if we're all
doing better.
(24:20):
So if those, that that's how Iwould do.
I would challenge and I havechallenged those, those a
players, to be the leader, bethe conduit between the coach
and maybe those other playersthat are hurting.
But here's the deal you're ateam and I've been in those
scenarios absolutely back at thecamp and back at other places,
(24:42):
where you know you've gotsomeone, your team, that's not
putting out well, maybe, maybeyou help them out, maybe you
carry them a little bit, figureout a way to help get them over
over the over the hump, so tospeak.
So, and then those, and thenthose kids especially that are
struggling.
You know, two things come upthere.
(25:02):
One is having the conversationthat dude, everybody's scared of
something, and there's lots ofthings I'm not good at, okay,
and maybe this is just one ofthem.
Running up this hill forwhatever reason, you're just not
good at it.
They begin to think likethey're no good and then they
begin to think like you know,they're going to bring the team
(25:23):
all the way down.
So I think it's a goodopportunity sometimes to pull
them to the side and have thatconversation.
Not, I'm not breathing downtheir neck.
Usually it's more of a, it'smore of a mentoring relationship
and just having a quickconversation about fear, because
everybody's scared of something.
And here's the cool thing, man,courage can't exist without
(25:44):
fear, if you get that dichotomy.
So what I said there wascourage can't exist without fear
.
And there's there's an example Ialways use, and that's that's
my wife.
She's scared to death snakes.
So we were.
We were walking a trail theother day actually a couple
years ago kids were younger anda snake popped by.
(26:04):
She freaks out like, literallyruns away, leaves me there with
the kids.
I'm not really scared of snakes, I don't care for him, but you
know I'll shoot away.
I asked my kids.
I was like, hey, was that thedad show courage there?
And they're like, yeah, and I'mlike I would say no, because
I'm not really scared of it's nobig deal for me to do that, you
know.
Reverse that situation, though.
(26:26):
If my wife shoot that snakeaway because she's definitely
afraid like a, she show courageand they're like, yeah,
absolutely, I'm like you'reright, why is that?
Because she's scared, she's gotfear.
So if you believe in thatdichotomy of fear and courage
and you believe that courage canexist without fear, then this
is also true those who are themost fearful have the
(26:46):
opportunity to be the mostcourageous, and that especially
hits hard to kids, I find.
And so what I'm saying, that is, I would try to pull those kids
aside who are really strugglingand try to have that
conversation, if you have enoughtime, that is, to have that
conversation about courage andfear.
And you're never out of thefight, man.
(27:08):
Just keep pushing yourselfforward.
And we had an event I'm remindedof where we had to scale this
mountain all night.
It was like 20 plus miles andwe had rucksacks on that weighed
about 40 pounds apiece.
We had our makeshift weapons,which were PVC pipe looks sand.
(27:31):
They were about eight poundsand we had a couple of people on
our team we had a team of sixand they were really struggling.
So I happened to go on thestronger ones in the group for
this event because, I trust me,I had my events that I was not
so strong at, and what we didwas, as a team, we took that
members, or those two members,we took their rucksacks and
(27:53):
weapons.
So now I have two rucks on, Ihave two weapons, I have double
the load and all the otherperson has to do is just walk,
and what that did was it enabledthem to kind of catch a second
wind.
They saw how hard we wereworking and once we got close to
the top of the mountain, theygrabbed their gear and finished
(28:16):
the ruck, which is cool andafterwards the SEALs brought us
alongside just our group,because they could see us
struggling, and they gave us avote and they said, hey, do you
want your players on your teamor do you want me to kick them
out of here Because they'reslowing you down?
I was reflecting because Ididn't know how to answer it.
It's the first time anyone everasked me that it was the first
(28:39):
situation type of every memberof that situation.
Someone else was like I wantthem out of here.
I want new players.
And the SEAL said you are not agood teammate.
That is the easiest answer youcould say is get them out of
here.
I want someone new.
He's like remember, there areno bad teams, there's only bad
leaders.
He's like be a better leaderand I was like holy crap, man
(29:03):
that really sank in so yeah,that was a good one.
Ben (29:08):
I love that we had thinking back to the first year
that we did that event.
We tried to set it up so thatyou had to.
There were different skill setsthat were good for different
events, right.
So, like the big offensivelineman who's really struggling
with the run, with some of thecardio stuff, with getting up
(29:32):
this hill, it was like if wecould just get them to not quit,
if we could just get them getthe I mean, like you said, get
the teammates to carry them upthe stinking hill to find some
way to just keep going.
I remember multiple times whereit was like we got to this
event where they had to pushsomething big and heavy and all
(29:54):
of a sudden all these skinnylittle wide receivers and DBs
are real glad that big boys withthem, because you know he's got
some oomph behind him and he'sgonna be able to help them out a
whole lot.
And I just I remember in thosemoments seeing like this light
bulb come on with the littleskinny guys who are finally
(30:16):
realizing, oh shoot, I can't dothis on my own.
But also, you know, some ofthese bigger guys that are
thinking, all right, I cancontribute, I still have value,
I've got this.
They need me.
As long as I don't quit and Ikeep pushing, we're gonna be
able to make this.
(30:37):
And you know, last week'sepisode we had Jake Gilbert on
who was talking about where.
You know, the time that herealized the culture has really
sunk in was when the backupswere preaching.
It was when the C-Team kidswere preaching.
It was when that sophomore thatyou're like well, I'm not
(30:59):
really sure he's gonna, you know, ever really be on the field.
All of a sudden he's sayingthese are the cultural
expectations of this program,this is how we do things.
We're not quitting, it doesn'tmatter, that's not an option.
You know, when it has permeatedthe entire culture to the point
(31:19):
where everybody is nowpreaching this, you know that's
where, that's when you can lookaround as a coach and be like
all right, we're doing this theright way.
So I was so glad, you know, Iwas curious of your insight and
I think that those totally lineup.
I'm curious.
The next question that we kindof we wrestled with a little bit
(31:42):
as coaches was we wanted tocompletely eradicate, leading by
example, and I was like thatwas something where, you know,
we had some teams, we had someplayers, where the guys, the
studs on the team, the A-plusplayers, like you call them.
They were all in.
(32:03):
They were doing the speed work.
They were doing the strengthwork.
They were getting bigger,faster, stronger.
We knew we could count on them,but it was almost like they
were just that person out at thefront of the marathon who's
just blowing past everybody, andthey weren't bringing someone
with them.
And so, yes, they were settinga good example and, yes, they
(32:24):
were doing all the right things,but that wasn't good enough and
we allowing them to just quote,lead by example, was almost a
cop out because they didn't haveto bring someone with them.
Talk to us a little bit aboutyou know, that balance of you
know.
Obviously there's some value inleading by example.
Obviously there's some value in, you know, the players that are
(32:47):
at the top doing things theright way.
But I guess the point is likebut we need more.
What is that that you saw inyour own experience?
Brad (32:58):
Yeah, I think part of that and I love that, like I love
how you worded that try toeradicate, leading by example,
because I didn't know where youwere going at first, but when
you explained it I was like Iknow exactly where you're going
now.
I think a couple of things.
One is that's why, during thiscrucible that I went to, you had
(33:18):
swim buddies.
You were partnered up withsomebody.
It was based on height.
That's, that's the only thing Iwent through it.
First thing, we didn't weshowed up height line count off.
That made your teams and thatmade who your your swim buddy
was and and you were great.
It, you know, it wasn't justabout how awesome you are, it's
about how awesome your buddy istoo.
So so what that?
(33:39):
What that does is that itcounts that Accountability for
someone other than just yourself, because it's gonna be now a.
In this picker case, it couldbe a two-man score instead of a
one.
You know, cuz like you said, andwhen it's, when it's one, it
can't.
Those a players like.
They're already wired that way.
They're wanting to be awesome,but can they make other people
(34:00):
rise up and train and and breakthrough, so that that's one way
that that camp Accomplished.
Matt and then the other one wasbeing a part of a boat crew.
Is was what they were referredto as, and boat crews were
typically between six and eightpeople and let's just say it
pays to be a winner and itreally really sucks to be a
(34:22):
loser.
Yeah, so that was a little bitof negative reinforcement.
Let's just say cuz cool, likethat's probably the canoe
example, I'm guessing, cuz Icould just picture people in
there.
A, they can't swim, so they'realready freaked out.
Right, be like.
The only way you win a canoerace is is everybody's in unison
, right?
So otherwise you're just gonnago around on a circle.
Ben (34:44):
It seems like so, or tip over and grab a hold of the
thing.
Yeah, absolutely.
Brad (34:51):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Those those types of events,evolutions, whatever you're
called, whatever you want, calm,that help really instill.
Instill the like, the micro,like raw part of the big team.
But then there's there's littleteams inside of the big team,
you know, and and just the whole.
It's so true, man, you're onlyas good as your weakest link.
I mean you really are.
(35:11):
You will be exposed at somepoint and that's okay.
Everybody's got a weak link.
But believe me, even your stud,a plus players, somewhere
they're weak.
Maybe it's not in the physical,maybe it's on the emotional
side.
They're dealing with some sortof trauma.
You had no idea, you know, butgoing.
That's what I love about thesecrucibles and just the intimacy
(35:31):
of really, really cool teams.
Is man, what you can get downand have that layer of
conversation?
Holy smokes, not now we're.
This is much bigger than justthe game.
This is about life and whatyou're gonna go on to do after
Football or whatever your sportis, you name it.
What kind of a person you'regonna be, how are you gonna
serve others, how are you gonnalift them up, how you gonna make
the world better.
Ben (35:52):
Yeah, and this, this is, you know, this is getting, like
you said, deep into where realmeaningful change Actually
happens.
And you know, I'll be honest,like the, I remember the first
time that coach Gilbert said,hey, we're not gonna practice
(36:13):
football on the first day of twodays, the first time we're
allowed to, you know, work withthem.
We've got this many hours thatwe're allowed to put them
through stuff and they have tohave this much rest time and we
can do this.
And it was like we wereliterally going to have them
canoe and Lift things and run upthe side of a hill and all of
(36:34):
this.
And I remember, on the, on thefront end of it, thinking, okay,
I mean, like you know, when I,when I was in college, I played
for Chris Creighton and we hadto do it was called the 12
minute run and you know myposition group had to run two
miles and 12 minutes and thatwas, you know, until I, until I
(36:55):
hiked the Grand Canyon, the mostdifficult thing I had ever done
in my entire life.
And I remember, like, in thefourth quarter, we would hold we
wouldn't hold up the four likea lot of teams do we would hold
up three fingers on each hand toremind us of, you know, the,
the time that we had put in andduring these 6 am Workouts and
the work that we had put intothe point when we could make
(37:16):
this 12 minute run, and you know.
So, having these, having thesedeeper motivating driving forces
, I think, is what really startsto separate Good programs from
great programs.
And and I love that you youbrought up, courage can't exist
(37:37):
without fear.
One of the things I talk about,you know, with the, the
athletes I work with one-on-one,is like look, all these tools
that I'm helping you with mentaltoughness, like you can't
practice them without adversity.
You can't, you can't try and,you know, really truly test your
confidence Until you're in thatmoment where you have to decide
(38:00):
Do I have what it takes?
Talk to us Maybe a little bitabout Creating some of that, not
just in a, not just in acrucible event, but, you know,
maybe throughout the season,maybe in the offseason, just
making difficult things Part ofyour culture, because courage
(38:21):
can't exist without fear, justlike mental toughness can't
exist without adversity.
Brad (38:27):
Yeah, I think, like you said, it's practice.
You know you can read about allthese things.
I got a bunch of books on mybookshelf but ask me how many of
those books I've everimplemented.
Maybe less than 1%.
That's just the facts andthat's when it's gonna show up
and that's why, in my definitionof grit, uncommon perseverance
(38:47):
in the face of adversity that'sthat's when you're gonna want to
use it.
It's do you, do you have youpractice it enough to where you
can access it as a subconsciouslevel, or at least think about
what you're doing and Then gointo, you know, maintain your
breath, positivity, all thatgood stuff, or is it as soon as
you know?
You know, you know what hitsthe fan.
Sorry, I don't know if you cancustom a podcast, so I'm
(39:08):
purposely not his kids willlisten, but I can.
You know when it hits the fan.
Let's say, do you just spaz out, do you just completely go
blind?
You just forget and you letfear, like the fear, will take
over, and that initial hit offear is so like that's, it's
okay, that's that's.
That's like.
That's why I'm trying to preach,like that is okay.
(39:29):
That's why I'm a proponent ofJust doing something that that
sucks every day, and there'slots of ways you can do it and
doesn't have to be a creature.
I'm not talking about that.
I mean like little things.
It could be as simple as wakingup 30 minutes earlier a day and
reading.
Maybe you hate to read, but youknow it's gonna make you better
.
All right, cool, let's do that.
We're gonna start with that.
(39:50):
I know ice baths and plungeshave become quite popular here
in the last few years and I'msure there's some scientific
reasons why you know why I likecold what's the first thing that
goes is your breath.
Yeah, you start hyperventilating, and that goes back to what I'm
talking about Get control ofyour breath.
Once you could control that,you're okay.
(40:10):
So that's what.
That's why I love using thoseas part of training.
Is it like that's one of theeasiest ways to train?
To train breath controls, we'regonna get you super cold and
I'm comfortable, and you'regonna learn how to unlock.
You know, breath control.
We're gonna do it right now.
So, so that that's an easy way.
Yeah, I've just, I'm just aproponent of that.
(40:31):
You know doing Doing thingsthat suck, but you know that are
good for you.
You know, I'm not talking aboutputting yourself in harm's way,
or you know, and I mean youcould be in situations where,
yeah, maybe, but you know it'soverall good for you, definitely
.
I mean, I love what you said.
There.
It's these are all tools, right, and there's there's tons of
tools out there.
(40:52):
Get a backpack full of tools,so pick the ones that work for
you too, because they're not allgonna work and all work for me,
right, but then really hold onto what works, and that comes
from experimenting and puttingyourself in those situations,
and that's why, typically, Istart with the physical mountain
which is working out.
Ben (41:08):
Whatever?
Brad (41:08):
your jam is.
I don't care whether it'swalking, yoga, crossfit,
powerlifting, rucking, biking,whatever, just do something.
But to me, like that's the,that's the easiest I want to
train because you could seeimmediate results.
Or that's increased strength,losing weight, you know,
whatever, whatever your goal isright back to that.
(41:30):
Why, why am I doing this?
And then I love, I love workingout and getting myself Like hit
.
Training like get to that point,of man, I can't hardly breathe.
All I can concentrate isgetting that one more rep.
That's where you want to be andthat's when the mental, that's
when the mental game reallystarts for me, and that's when
you know everybody's, everybodyshould have a mantra, like a
(41:52):
word or phrase.
You tell yourself just to kindof get yourself going, that
whole positivity piece.
And my mind is I Usually saygood, like now, now the workouts
actually beginning, like when Ilook around, everybody else is
tired.
I'm like, alright, this iswhere I Accelerate.
You know, I'm not gonna, I'mnot gonna decrease, I'm gonna
(42:15):
put my foot on throttle, I'mgonna go, I'm gonna break some
people you know.
Ben (42:19):
I love that.
Yeah, we, we had a, we had anactivity one time.
We were replacing some negativethoughts and it was like what's
the situation?
And for one of the kids, he wasbrutally honest.
He was like six am Workouts,they suck, you know, he's, he's
telling us as the footballcoaches and it's like, well,
yeah, I know.
And then it's like what's thewhat's the negative thought that
(42:40):
pops into your mind?
He's like you know, not thisagain, my bed's so comfortable.
Why the heck am I doing this?
Is this really gonna doanything?
My getting anything out of this?
And then you know, having themwork through like alright, so
what, what are those?
What are those reminders thatyou need to give yourself?
And he, you know, he lists outalright, maybe here's why we're
gonna do this.
And blah, blah, blah.
(43:01):
And so his, his thing that hecame up with was time to grind.
And so you know, he, he, I'll behonest, like at first it was
almost, he used it almost sointentionally.
Just, it almost came off as likeDisrespectful, like you're
gonna make me do this.
(43:22):
Fine, that I'm gonna go over thetop and I'm gonna throw this
back in your face Time to grind,time to grind, and just saying
it over and over and over andover, to the point where it's
like this is alright, this isgetting a little bit obnoxious
and before you know it, like itcatches on and before you know
it, like all the sudden, theseyou know guys start saying this
(43:42):
and teammates start saying thisand you start seeing some, some
high fives and some chest bumpsand some you know, pushing
people around and it's like Eveneven in the midst of him, you
know whether whether he trulywas the, whether the motivation
behind it was I'm trying to beobnoxious or not, didn't matter,
like the end result was itcompletely changed the, the
(44:06):
environment, it completelychanged the mood.
When people started saying thatand you know that that's that's
something that I love aboutself-talk.
It's like even if you got tofake it till, you feel it like
at the first, at the front endof it, like it's, it's worth it.
You need to be doing this.
Brad (44:26):
Love that.
That should be a t-shirt, likethe team t-shirt that year.
Ben (44:29):
Absolutely, absolutely so I know you know.
Before the show we were talkinga little bit about what you do
now and then also some goalsthat you've got you know in the
future with your own coachingjourney.
Talk to us just a little bitabout you know what you're up to
and some vision for the future.
Brad (44:46):
You know, when I graduated Kokoro camp so this is
something I mean I trained, Ilived it, I breathed it, I slept
it for six months, man, likethere was no going back, like I,
visually, I Saw myselfgraduating.
In fact, I told my wife I waslike I'm gonna make it.
She thought I was nuts.
Everybody I told it up you knowI was doing this, thought I was
nuts, like why you doing this,why you doing this?
And I Told my wife the nightbefore I was like because
(45:09):
there's no contact, right, andthis was actually the first time
I think I wouldn't have talkedto my wife for a whole weekend,
believe it or not.
I told her I was like you'renot gonna hear from me and if
you do, it's bad news.
So meaning like I'm making itor I'm coming back on my shield,
so to speak.
Graduated I mean we're elated.
Right, we started with a classof 50, graduated 25.
(45:32):
So we lost.
We lost half our class.
Mind you, these are all studs.
To go to this program, there'sa minimum standard you have to
hit of push-ups, sit-ups,pull-ups, time outrun.
So you know why?
Why did we lose half the class?
It's the six inches betweenyour ears.
That's why.
That's why it's so important.
That's why we're spending somuch time talking about the
(45:53):
mental game here, not just thefootball, but in life, but my
mentor, mark divine.
He posed a question to theclass and it haunted me, man,
for a long time.
There's just two words, twosimple words.
He said what's next?
I'm like what's next, man?
I just this is it for me, right?
I have reached the mountaintop.
(46:13):
What else?
Ben (46:14):
is there.
Brad (46:15):
Well, for those who have reached the mountaintop, there's
a little bit of depression thatcan sit in.
You know the arrival fallacy.
I don't have any.
I don't have another goal onanother mission to go to, so I
Was kind of time or I was atumbling, tumbling a little bit
like I thought, okay, maybe aSpartan race or some obstacle
(46:36):
course races, stuff like thatcould help fill that void and
those are cool.
But Nothing, that just nothing,compared nothing stacked up to
to my experience at the crucible.
And one day I stumbled uponMark's teachings and he's got a
really cool program calledunbeatable mind that really digs
(46:58):
into a lot of stuff We've beentalking about.
I Said, you know, I thinkthat's my next.
That's my next engagement is Iwant to become certified as
coach.
So it was a year-long program.
I did.
I did it actually during COVIDand they don't just graduate
anyone.
You have to be selected tograduate, which is super cool.
So I got certified in thisprogram and and I began Coaching
(47:21):
adults.
Actually, I typically work withmen.
That just seems to be my, myniche.
So For the last several years Ihave online groups that I coach
over video.
I like to meet early in themorning, so we meet usually at 6
am.
Calls are usually on onWednesdays right now.
So I've got a pretty cool callteam and and people call in from
(47:44):
all over the US and man, wejust do life together, like it's
a lot of what we're talkingabout right now, but we get
super granular on.
You know some of the emotionalstuff that's going on in their
lives and you know what theirpassions are.
What are they trying to do?
Of course there's physicalExercises we all try to
accomplish together, like likefor the month of January, we
(48:06):
were doing, you know, jacowilling yeah, I'm guessing.
Yeah, we're doing his reset noboo, no booze.
You know, drinking lots ofwater, doing a hundred burpees a
day, all sorts of little things, but but that's been a lot of
fun, holds me accountable too,which is why I love it, because
I don't just talk and teach, Ido this alongside with my
(48:27):
clients, like that's importantfor me.
So that's that's what I'm doingnow and and where I hope to go,
and this just kind of recentlyhappened.
So my kids Are still prettyyoung my daughter just turned 13
, ali, and my son Brody he'she's 10 their winter babies, but
they're involved in sports andI Love coaching, so I've began
(48:54):
Becoming an assistant coach andgetting more involved with
sports and community, and just Ilove it and and what I?
What I see a need for, then, andthis is something that I'm
working on, this is my dream isto To create a crucible, if you
will, or events, but for kids,because to me, it's like that's
(49:17):
what that's.
What it's all about is isbringing up this next generation
, and you talk to parents allthe time, I'm sure, as do I, and
there's lots of pressures outthere.
We there's.
There's pressures that wedidn't have to deal with, thank
God, but but these are real, andthe more we can get kids to
(49:38):
open up and and work on becominga little bit grittier, I think
the better off we're all gonnabe man, because they're gonna be
taking care of us one day youknow that's that's the way this
cycle goes.
So that's that's my dream is tois to start hosting events for
kids and, yeah, I can't wait.
So love that we're startingthat now.
Ben (50:00):
So, real quick, just give the.
Give the listeners quickoverview if they're wanting to
get in touch with you, learnmore about you.
What's the best way to do that?
Brad (50:08):
Easiest way would just be go to my website.
It's school of grit org, notcalm, so it's dot org.
Someone owns calm Wasn't gonnapay for it, so go check it out.
It's got all my contactinformation there, or just drop
me an email, brad at school ofgritorg.
Ben (50:28):
Awesome.
Well, brad, thank you so much.
I've thoroughly enjoyed ourtime together.
Really appreciate you joiningus on the show today.
Brad (50:36):
Thanks, man, appreciate you, man, and I look forward to
meeting in person here one day.
Ben (50:40):
Absolutely would love to.
Hey, thanks for tuning in today.
If you found value in today'sepisode, we ask you to please
share it with a friend, with afellow coach that might benefit
from our discussions.
If you want to learn more abouttaking your team's mental game
to the next level, visit MTP dotAcademy.
You can explore the programthat we've got.
You can train your entire teamthroughout the year Super
(51:03):
affordable, very customizableand the best part you'll have
direct access to me.
I will help you come up withthe calendar, I'll help you with
implementation and I'm therefor any questions You've got
along the way, as always.
Thank you so much for joiningin, for listening and until next
time, make your plan and put itto work.
Hey you welcome to the coaching minds podcast, the
official podcast of mentaltraining plan.
Joining us today, very specialguest who was recommended, a
connection made by close friendof both of ours, Steve Siebel,
who was actually on the show,episode number 91, talking about
coaching the mental side of thegame Steve does Steve does a
(00:20):
lot of what I do over on theEast Coast and he said hey,
there's this guy, his name isBrad, you guys got to have a
conversation and that was all hesaid.
And, sure enough, in ourinitial conversation I was super
excited about just the topic.
(00:40):
Brad's the founder of School ofGrit.
He's got a book out.
He works with adults.
He's going to be expanding,working with youth also.
Brad, thanks so much forjoining us on the show today.
Brad (00:53):
Yeah, thanks, ben.
It's a pleasure, it's an honorto be on, and so cool when
mutual friend can put ustogether.
Ben (00:59):
So shout out to Steve out there, he's listening where I
would love to start is the firstchapter of your book is
literally titled the crucible.
The crucible event wassomething that we started doing
when I was when I was stillcoaching at Westfield.
It was phenomenal.
We loved the addition of that.
(01:20):
We loved what kids got out ofit, kind of forced them to to
man up a little bit.
Would love to just hear yourexperience, because I know
you've kind of gone through thispersonally and then also just
sort of just sort of take usthrough, maybe introduce what is
it and why is it important?
Brad (01:39):
I chose to attend what I call School of Grit, and there's
lots of schools of grit.
If you look at them online,they're everywhere.
But a crucible to me issomething that's going to push
you, not just physically, butmentally, emotionally, right.
We're going to take you to aplace you've probably never been
before, so you can discover whoyou really are.
Sometimes that's good,sometimes that's bad, but at
(02:00):
least you got a baseline and youknow what to do, and we're
going to expose your weaknessesand we're going to practice
those weaknesses afterwards.
So that's my idea of thecrucible love here, and that you
all did that as part of yourfootball team.
I'd love to learn more aboutthat, absolutely.
But the crucible I chose to goto was called Kokoro Camp, and
that is put on by former NavySeal Commander Mark Devine,
(02:24):
mark's mentor of mine, and he'sbeen doing these camps.
Now I think he's on his 60thiteration of these camps, so a
number of years.
I went back in 2015.
And why I chose to go was Ijust took stock of my own life
and I guess I have somewhat of aunique perspective.
Life wasn't very hard for me.
I'm just going to throw it outthere.
(02:45):
Born and raised in Indiana,oldest to four played sports,
didn't have a hard time makingfriends.
Parents are still married, comefrom a very loving family.
We weren't rich, we weren'tpoor.
I knew the difference betweenboth.
But I'm not saying I was bornwith a silver spoon by any means
.
But we didn't have to fight forfood.
(03:07):
I didn't have to fight for roofover my head.
And, yeah, I'm just a proponentof bringing what I call
purposeful adversity into yourlife, because that's what
Shapeshia informs you andprepares you for the battlefield
of life.
We're all dealing with it,right?
Everybody you meet fighting abattle that you know nothing
about.
So why not prepare for that?
(03:29):
And a crucible is one way thatyou can prepare for it.
So I chose to go to this campthat was put on by Navy SEALs
and it's modeled after.
If you know anything about NavySEAL training, it's regarded as
some of the toughest trainingin the world and there's a part
inside that training called HellWeek, where candidates are up
for about a week with verylittle sleep and they're just
(03:53):
they're pushed to the brink.
So this was a 50 hour crucible.
So it started on a Friday youdidn't know what time and then
it ended sometime on Sunday, butI think we ended up being up
about 55 hours, zero sleep,minimal food, and man did it
push me to to the core.
So that's the, that's theoversight of it.
Ben (04:15):
Love that, and so the you know kind of similarly we put,
we put our players throughsomething.
Obviously it wasn't 50 hours,but the the first day of two of
days.
You can't really practice inpads anyway.
So we would go to this camp andwe would have kind of you could
kind of consider it like a Idon't know a bit of an obstacle
(04:38):
course race, kind of a you knowlittle bit of a tough, mudder
challenge, some Spartan racestuff mixed in there, but like
everything from, they had to getin a canoe and paddle, which
you know doesn't really seemlike that big of a deal.
I was surprised at the numberof kids though that we had that
were in tears because it's likeI can't swim.
(04:58):
I'm terrified of this, I don'twant anything to do with this.
They had to, you know, gothrough some muddy, nasty creeks
.
They had to carry a great bigtelephone pole.
They had to, you know, throw a50 pound weight down across this
football field.
They had to.
You know, the whole course waslike I don't know, three miles
(05:19):
long, four miles long.
They had to go find clues thatwere hidden underneath rocks in
a river.
They had.
You know, kids are losing shoesand shoes in the mud and the
muck.
There was this hill that theyhad to climb.
That was, I mean it was.
It was brutal, like guys aresliding down, falling into trees
(05:41):
, scuffing their knees on rocks,got kids are, you know, eating
a face full of dirt.
They're having to figure outhow can we get our entire team
across the line, how do we getour entire team up this hill?
And so we, we put them in thesechallenging, uncomfortable
situations, almost to the pointwhere it was like this is this
(06:02):
is going to push a lot of theseguys to this point of can I even
physically do this?
And you know there wereobviously some guys that were
much more athletic that a lot ofthese things weren't as
difficult, but they also had todeal with.
I can't just breeze throughthis on my own.
I've got to bring everyonealong with me.
(06:24):
So talk to me a little bitabout you know.
So we've got kind of thisbaseline of you know how you
guys did it or you know howwe've done it.
Let's, let's dive deeper,though, into like why and what
do you get out of this andwhat's the benefit on the other
side.
Brad (06:42):
So what are the big benefits of this was when I went
to the camp.
I would say I was very selfish.
It was about me, and that is.
That is one thing these typesof crucibles can inspire is is
true teamwork, and that is theidea of putting the person on
your left, to your right, takingcare of them first before
(07:04):
yourself.
And man, was that ingrainedinto us all weekend long because
we weren't gonna make it.
We just flat out weren't thethe, the events were signed,
they were, they were, theycalled them Evolutions.
The evolutions were set up in away where it required true
teamwork.
Like you're not gonna pick atelephone, pull up by yourself,
(07:25):
right, well, maybe one person,good.
But now you're not gonna getvery many reps Right, and you
could tell when you'reunderneath that Log, let's say,
and you're doing log PT, you cantell when someone's not putting
out, you know exactly who it is.
It's actually pretty easyevolution if everybody's working
hard.
You know If there's.
If the pull weighs 300 pounds,you got six people underneath it
.
Well, that's about 50 pounds.
(07:46):
Most people who are, you know,football players or whatever
they work out, they can probablyhandle that.
But as soon as someone Whits ordecides to take it easy, not so
much, and you can see that logshift you know, front, back,
side, side.
That's.
That's one of the big things Iloved out of.
It was just the true, you know,teamwork and and it's just
(08:08):
really the grit aspect out ofman Just digging down deep and
come in face-to-face with anobstacle or a scenario where you
think it's impossible, whenthey're telling you what you got
to do, and then you end updoing it because the team
together can do it.
So that was that was critical.
That was one of the biggestthings I learned out there.
It was taken, taken, gettingoutside of your own head.
(08:32):
You know when the going getstough, because everybody gets
broken too.
Let's just, let's just facts offacts.
Everybody's breakable.
If I tell you to go do airsquats for the next five minutes
, you're probably gonna break atsome point.
Right, it's not that hard tobreak someone.
But when you do break, where'syour mind go and what are you
looking at?
And and how are you trickingyourself into?
Keep moving forward, keepmaking a little bit of progress,
(08:53):
and that's a big one was justConcentrating on your buddy,
because that's we all had.
They call them swim buddies outthere, but that was your
partner and wherever you wentand they went with you, I don't
care if it was to the bathroomand if you ever got caught
without them, you were gonna.
You're gonna pay.
You're gonna pay the price, youknow in the book.
Ben (09:11):
You were talking about preparing the mind, and it
doesn't matter how physicallyfit you are, like you alluded to
.
You know, for some people thatmight be 10 push-ups or 50 or
100 or 200 like at some pointyou will break.
At some point these, thesesituations become so
uncomfortable, so unbearable youget, you have to wrestle with
(09:32):
why am I doing this?
Or this hurts, this sucks, Ilike I want to quit.
You've you said in the book,you got to control these
thoughts and your emotions ifyou're to push through any type
of adversity in life as you're.
You know, now, on the otherside of you're not just Going
through this on your own, butnow you're helping other people
go through this.
(09:53):
What are, what are some of theways that you teach?
You know that person who's inthe middle of wrestling with why
am I doing this?
This is awful.
What's, where's the kind ofthat starting point for you with
them?
Brad (10:07):
I think you just nailed it , and it's asking that question
of why, why are you here?
Ask them, especially ask themduring an event, during that
period where you know you cantell it's a suckfest, right,
they're practically crying orthey're putting out, or you
could tell facial facialexpressions, tell out, right,
all the groans and stuff.
Sometimes you pull them to theside if you, if you need to, and
(10:28):
just say what, why you doingthis?
See what they said.
You know, is it intrinsicallymotivated or is it external?
I'm doing it because my parentsare making me do it.
Okay, that's not a very goodreason, not saying you can't
make it, but if, if, if it'sintrinsically motivated, like,
hey, I want to be the bestVersion of myself that I can be
so I can go on and play, notonly for my team, but maybe go
(10:50):
play, you know, d1 ball,whatever you got, okay now.
Now you're on to somethingright, because that's gonna
drive you and and that's gonnainstill that discipline.
I didn't say motivation,because Motivation it to me is
crap.
It.
It comes and goes like the wind.
Basically, I got tons of daysI'm not motivated to get out of
(11:10):
bed.
Actually, today was one of them, because my kids had a at a two
hour delay, but it's importantto instill that discipline.
Just to say, no, got a, got toget up right.
Small little, small little winsThroughout the day and that's.
That's a big one, you know.
Just get out of bed sometimesfor people.
So, so, yeah, it's starting withwhy, and that's relatable to
(11:32):
anything, whether you're runninga side hustle business, whether
you're a coach, whatever askyour, I try to say, ask yourself
why, three to five times, andthat'll reveal, like, the real
reason You're doing something.
That's a pretty good littlepractice.
And then, likewise, if youcan't answer that well, maybe
(11:52):
you need to reflect on it.
Why is it that I'm having ahard time coming up with why I'm
doing this?
Or you know, this is, this isoutside of this crucible piece,
but maybe you got asked to dosomething and Doesn't make sense
anymore, right, does it fit?
You've moved on, so maybe it'stime to I'm gonna throw out the
cue, or maybe it's time to quit.
(12:13):
Quitting's not bad in somesituations.
I quit a lot of things in lifethat were good for me
relationships, all sorts ofdifferent things and that's
different than giving up, though, because giving up is.
Is that that's what you don'tdo right.
That's for something.
That's where you can't answerthat.
Why and you're so laser focusedon this exactly why I'm doing
it means so much.
(12:33):
It's like I'm never gonna giveup on that, but I might quit
things along the way in order topivot 100%.
Ben (12:40):
So you know, Talk to me a little bit about this word grit,
because you know I was a, I wasa teacher, I was in education
when Angela Duckworth, you know,wrote the book that so many
people use To define this word.
It became a pretty, prettybuzzy word in the realm of
(13:02):
education.
Talk to me a little bit about,maybe, a quick definition of
what is it, and then let's diveinto why is it so important.
Brad (13:14):
Let's do it.
So, angela Duckworth, she's oneof the one of the people that
got me rocking and rolling, so Iknow that.
Book it to Mitley.
And when I was in a place in mylife so I'm 44 right now I was
about 34 at the time I wasstruggling with Answering those
basic questions that come upinternally, questions like you
(13:38):
know, what's my purpose?
What am I here to do?
You know, is this, is this mycareer?
Is this what I should be doingor should be doing other things?
And I turned to the internet tohelp me answer that and After a
long time of reading blogs andstuff like that, came across
Angela's Ted talk.
And if you haven't seen that Tedtalk, it's, it's incredible.
It's only about six minutes andshe goes on to say that grit is
(14:00):
the leading indicator andpredictor of success in life.
And she gives all these reasonswhy, through all of her
research and all these folksshe's looked at, whether it was,
you know, west Point candidatesor People teaching math and
inner cities you know, you nameit.
What's what's gonna keepsomeone in the game, so to speak
?
And and grit came up and itgrit, something can be, that can
(14:22):
be grown, as she says, you cangrow from the inside out, you
can grow it from the outside in,and her definition of grit is
Passion and perseverance for along-term goal, which I think is
great.
I actually take it a stepfurther.
I actually have my owndefinition of grit, and that's
cool thing about grit is itmeans something different to
(14:43):
everyone.
So if you ask you, ask me, if Iask you, if you ask five other
people, you're probably gonnahave similar answers but
different words, and I've justI've come up with this over the
course of time.
So I'd say grit is uncommonperseverance in the face of
adversity, backed by a strongwhy to achieve a worthy goal.
That's like a four-parter andthat's a mouthful, but it's
(15:06):
uncommon perseverance.
So what I mean?
There is effort, because if youread her book, effort counts
twice.
You know, I'll take, I'll takework, hard work over talent,
pretty much any day of the week.
You know, in the face ofadversity, because that's when
it's gonna show.
You know, everybody wants to gofor a run when it's 70 degrees
outside, sun shining, you know.
(15:27):
Sure, suns out, guns out right.
But when it's when it's cold,like it has been in Indiana, and
it's zero and the windshield isnegative, it's very easy not to
get that workout in, very easyto sleep in a little bit.
So that's when it shows up, iswhen Adversity sets in back by a
strong why we just talked alittle bit about that.
(15:48):
You know why are you doinganything?
And they achieve a worthy goal.
You know you got to make sureyour goals are lining up with
where you think you're, you'regoing in life.
Some sometimes they are,sometimes they aren't, and it's
okay to pivot, like I said, it'sokay to quit things and move on
to different things.
It's perfectly okay as long asit aligns with that, with that
mission.
Ben (16:05):
So that's my own definition of grit so, as I, you
know, as I hear this as aparent, as a small business
owner, as a coach, you know thethe first thing that that pops
into my mind now is Perfect.
So now, how do we do this?
(16:26):
You know, we said grit can begrown.
Give me some.
Give me some concrete examplesyou know whether that's
boardroom football field, or youknow my own living room of how
this can be grown.
So maybe some, some concreteexamples.
Brad (16:45):
Yeah, so there's.
There's basically two bucketshere.
You can grow it from the insideout.
You can grow it from theoutside in.
So I'll start with inside out.
Inside out would be to me inlisting the help of, of a coach,
a Mentor, something like that,who's gonna help you work on on
more of the, the mental game,right, the emotional side,
(17:05):
because this isn't just physicalguys.
Physical is a part of it.
It's, it's definitely a part ofmy own coaching program, that
having the physicality, andthere's a reason for that.
But as you look at a wholeperson, I actually like to
divide them up into fivedifferent mountains.
It's what I call you gotphysical, mental, emotional
intuition and then your warriorspirit, and you know, working on
(17:28):
grit on the inside is is reallyexamining those different
pieces.
So a perfect example would beGrowing mental toughness.
Right, you hear your mentaltoughness all the time, right,
it's big, big buzzword.
So I've got four ways I trainthat specifically for your, for
your listeners out there, andthese aren't rocket science, but
(17:52):
if I guarantee, if you do themand you do them well, you will
see a gradual increase in yourgrit and in your mental
toughness.
So the first is I want to payattention to your breath.
I, as corny as that may sound,or if you think it's woo-woo,
but seriously pay attention toyour breath.
What are you doing Next timeyou're in a boardroom or you're
(18:15):
having a crucial conversation?
I almost guarantee you'reholding your breath when you get
asked or put on the spot orsomething like that.
And it's no different than insports.
When the clock starts windingdown and you know that blood
pressure rises and You're notplaying loose anymore, you're
stiffening up.
Check your breath.
You probably got a little bitof shortness of breath.
So just remember, take a deepbreath in and out.
(18:38):
There's all sorts of differentbreath exercises I teach, but
that's the most basic one.
Just just a little tacticalbreathing, right, two seconds in
, two seconds out.
If you can control yourpsychology I'm sorry if you can
control your physiology, you cancontrol your psychology, which
is the next piece.
So, now that I'm not onbreathing, I'm trying to take to
(19:01):
gain control.
I'm working on positivity,right, trying to be as positive
as I possibly can and realizingthat you know it could always be
worse.
Man, someone's always got itworse.
Even though something you knowsucky's happening right now,
there's a reason for it andsomething good can come out of
this.
So you know you're, you'rebreathing, you're staying
(19:24):
positive, which are huge.
Visualization is the next bigone that I teach to.
So this can be done pre event,can be done, post event, can
even be done during the event.
But I'll start with pre event.
Say it's a football game, orsay it's a big Board meeting,
like you said.
Maybe you're in sales andyou're meeting with a big client
(19:45):
.
I want you to actuallyvisualize yourself delivering
your sales presentation andbeing successful, because if you
can visualize it, if you cansee yourself doing it, then
you're gonna be able to do itfor real when, when the time
comes.
And then, last but not least, isproper goal-setting.
So you know, let's takefootball, football, four
(20:08):
quarters, let's play quarter toquarter to quarter.
Don't think about the wholegame.
You got to be, you got to beright here at this play, right
here.
You know, I want your minddrifting off, thinking about,
like, what we're gonna do in thethird quarter.
It's the first quarter.
You got to be present righthere, this next play.
All we need are these nextyards.
It's noted, that's no differentthan Ryan, a marathon.
(20:29):
And you know you're on mile,let's say 20 and you're
struggling, you're hurting andjust concentrating on the next
stop sign.
I'm running to that next street, that next group.
I can see ahead of me.
I'm just trying to get just alittle bit farther.
Same thing with your, with yourgoals.
If you got a, if you got adream of opening up your own
business, go do it and but Makeactionable steps.
(20:52):
You know, the first step couldjust be going to get your LLC do
the paperwork.
Then you got that done.
What's my next thing?
Breaking off those those biggoals into smaller chunks,
essentially.
So that's the, that's the bigfour mental toughness.
I teach to help increase gritfrom the inside out.
It's breath, positivity,visualization, goal setting and
(21:14):
then, likewise, growing gritfrom the outside in.
That's, that's the fun, that's.
That's also the fun part too.
That's attending a crucibleexperience.
That's that's putting.
That's putting yourself Intoareas where you're nervous,
You're a little bit scared to doit, but it's for good reason.
Okay, and it doesn't have to bephysical.
I just prefer physical becauseI think it's the easiest thing
(21:36):
to do.
It'll immediately get you rightthere and hit you adversely.
Hit you, and it's like.
You know what do I do when I,when I can't do another rep, or
I'm breaking, or I'm breaking,but it doesn't have to be that
it could be public speaking.
I know a lot of people have afear of public speaking or or a
podcasting or whatever.
Make yourself do it.
The more you do it, the betteryou're gonna get.
Ben (21:59):
Love that as you're kind of going through, you know, the,
the crucible, you're goingthrough Kokoro school, as you're
Experiencing these things andyou're kind of you're kind of
having this aha moment whereit's like this is awesome, this
is, this is changing my life,this is, this is incredible.
(22:20):
And you know you would you hadalluded to you couldn't just do
it on your own.
You are gonna have to bringothers with you as you think
about, you know, because the thehighly, the highly motivated
guys that just kind of get it.
That's, I think, as a coach,it's easier to coach that group.
(22:43):
What about the kid who's intears with mud on his face, that
just wants to hang it up andwants to quit on the side of
this hill and he's not sure thathe has what it takes, and his
teammates are pissed becausethey're not gonna win this event
, because they can't get hisbutt up this hill?
(23:04):
How do you, how do you interactwith, with, maybe, that group
of athletes?
How do you coach that group ofathletes?
What's the balance between Icome in with tough love and I
say let's go, we got a toughenough and we got to keep
pushing Versa versus?
You know at what point you wrapyour arm around the kid and say
, hey, you know, we got this,we're gonna, we're gonna be
alright, what's that?
(23:26):
What's that balance look like?
Maybe for those, those athletesthat we're coaching, that are
falling behind and, and in thatpool of doubt, still?
Brad (23:40):
I think the more those let's call them a, a plus
athletes, I think, the more thatthey can be the quote unquote
coach and and help that playerout, versus the actual coach,
the better off the team is goingto be.
A coach is absolutely vital indelivering the message, but the
(24:00):
best teams that I find are weare when you're, you know, your
best players are going to be notonly talented but they work
hard and they're completelybought in and they realize, hey,
it's not really about me, it'sreally about the team and the
way the whole team is going tolift itself up is if we're all
doing better.
(24:20):
So if those, that that's how Iwould do.
I would challenge and I havechallenged those, those a
players, to be the leader, bethe conduit between the coach
and maybe those other playersthat are hurting.
But here's the deal you're ateam and I've been in those
scenarios absolutely back at thecamp and back at other places,
(24:42):
where you know you've gotsomeone, your team, that's not
putting out well, maybe, maybeyou help them out, maybe you
carry them a little bit, figureout a way to help get them over
over the over the hump, so tospeak.
So, and then those, and thenthose kids especially that are
struggling.
You know, two things come upthere.
(25:02):
One is having the conversationthat dude, everybody's scared of
something, and there's lots ofthings I'm not good at, okay,
and maybe this is just one ofthem.
Running up this hill forwhatever reason, you're just not
good at it.
They begin to think likethey're no good and then they
begin to think like you know,they're going to bring the team
(25:23):
all the way down.
So I think it's a goodopportunity sometimes to pull
them to the side and have thatconversation.
Not, I'm not breathing downtheir neck.
Usually it's more of a, it'smore of a mentoring relationship
and just having a quickconversation about fear, because
everybody's scared of something.
And here's the cool thing, man,courage can't exist without
(25:44):
fear, if you get that dichotomy.
So what I said there wascourage can't exist without fear
.
And there's there's an example Ialways use, and that's that's
my wife.
She's scared to death snakes.
So we were.
We were walking a trail theother day actually a couple
years ago kids were younger anda snake popped by.
(26:04):
She freaks out like, literallyruns away, leaves me there with
the kids.
I'm not really scared of snakes, I don't care for him, but you
know I'll shoot away.
I asked my kids.
I was like, hey, was that thedad show courage there?
And they're like, yeah, and I'mlike I would say no, because
I'm not really scared of it's nobig deal for me to do that, you
know.
Reverse that situation, though.
(26:26):
If my wife shoot that snakeaway because she's definitely
afraid like a, she show courageand they're like, yeah,
absolutely, I'm like you'reright, why is that?
Because she's scared, she's gotfear.
So if you believe in thatdichotomy of fear and courage
and you believe that courage canexist without fear, then this
is also true those who are themost fearful have the
(26:46):
opportunity to be the mostcourageous, and that especially
hits hard to kids, I find.
And so what I'm saying, that is, I would try to pull those kids
aside who are really strugglingand try to have that
conversation, if you have enoughtime, that is, to have that
conversation about courage andfear.
And you're never out of thefight, man.
(27:08):
Just keep pushing yourselfforward.
And we had an event I'm remindedof where we had to scale this
mountain all night.
It was like 20 plus miles andwe had rucksacks on that weighed
about 40 pounds apiece.
We had our makeshift weapons,which were PVC pipe looks sand.
(27:31):
They were about eight poundsand we had a couple of people on
our team we had a team of sixand they were really struggling.
So I happened to go on thestronger ones in the group for
this event because, I trust me,I had my events that I was not
so strong at, and what we didwas, as a team, we took that
members, or those two members,we took their rucksacks and
(27:53):
weapons.
So now I have two rucks on, Ihave two weapons, I have double
the load and all the otherperson has to do is just walk,
and what that did was it enabledthem to kind of catch a second
wind.
They saw how hard we wereworking and once we got close to
the top of the mountain, theygrabbed their gear and finished
(28:16):
the ruck, which is cool andafterwards the SEALs brought us
alongside just our group,because they could see us
struggling, and they gave us avote and they said, hey, do you
want your players on your teamor do you want me to kick them
out of here Because they'reslowing you down?
I was reflecting because Ididn't know how to answer it.
It's the first time anyone everasked me that it was the first
(28:39):
situation type of every memberof that situation.
Someone else was like I wantthem out of here.
I want new players.
And the SEAL said you are not agood teammate.
That is the easiest answer youcould say is get them out of
here.
I want someone new.
He's like remember, there areno bad teams, there's only bad
leaders.
He's like be a better leaderand I was like holy crap, man
(29:03):
that really sank in so yeah,that was a good one.
Ben (29:08):
I love that we had thinking back to the first year
that we did that event.
We tried to set it up so thatyou had to.
There were different skill setsthat were good for different
events, right.
So, like the big offensivelineman who's really struggling
with the run, with some of thecardio stuff, with getting up
(29:32):
this hill, it was like if wecould just get them to not quit,
if we could just get them getthe I mean, like you said, get
the teammates to carry them upthe stinking hill to find some
way to just keep going.
I remember multiple times whereit was like we got to this
event where they had to pushsomething big and heavy and all
(29:54):
of a sudden all these skinnylittle wide receivers and DBs
are real glad that big boys withthem, because you know he's got
some oomph behind him and he'sgonna be able to help them out a
whole lot.
And I just I remember in thosemoments seeing like this light
bulb come on with the littleskinny guys who are finally
(30:16):
realizing, oh shoot, I can't dothis on my own.
But also, you know, some ofthese bigger guys that are
thinking, all right, I cancontribute, I still have value,
I've got this.
They need me.
As long as I don't quit and Ikeep pushing, we're gonna be
able to make this.
(30:37):
And you know, last week'sepisode we had Jake Gilbert on
who was talking about where.
You know, the time that herealized the culture has really
sunk in was when the backupswere preaching.
It was when the C-Team kidswere preaching.
It was when that sophomore thatyou're like well, I'm not
(30:59):
really sure he's gonna, you know, ever really be on the field.
All of a sudden he's sayingthese are the cultural
expectations of this program,this is how we do things.
We're not quitting, it doesn'tmatter, that's not an option.
You know, when it has permeatedthe entire culture to the point
(31:19):
where everybody is nowpreaching this, you know that's
where, that's when you can lookaround as a coach and be like
all right, we're doing this theright way.
So I was so glad, you know, Iwas curious of your insight and
I think that those totally lineup.
I'm curious.
The next question that we kindof we wrestled with a little bit
(31:42):
as coaches was we wanted tocompletely eradicate, leading by
example, and I was like thatwas something where, you know,
we had some teams, we had someplayers, where the guys, the
studs on the team, the A-plusplayers, like you call them.
They were all in.
(32:03):
They were doing the speed work.
They were doing the strengthwork.
They were getting bigger,faster, stronger.
We knew we could count on them,but it was almost like they
were just that person out at thefront of the marathon who's
just blowing past everybody, andthey weren't bringing someone
with them.
And so, yes, they were settinga good example and, yes, they
(32:24):
were doing all the right things,but that wasn't good enough and
we allowing them to just quote,lead by example, was almost a
cop out because they didn't haveto bring someone with them.
Talk to us a little bit aboutyou know, that balance of you
know.
Obviously there's some value inleading by example.
Obviously there's some value in, you know, the players that are
(32:47):
at the top doing things theright way.
But I guess the point is likebut we need more.
What is that that you saw inyour own experience?
Brad (32:58):
Yeah, I think part of that and I love that, like I love
how you worded that try toeradicate, leading by example,
because I didn't know where youwere going at first, but when
you explained it I was like Iknow exactly where you're going
now.
I think a couple of things.
One is that's why, during thiscrucible that I went to, you had
(33:18):
swim buddies.
You were partnered up withsomebody.
It was based on height.
That's, that's the only thing Iwent through it.
First thing, we didn't weshowed up height line count off.
That made your teams and thatmade who your your swim buddy
was and and you were great.
It, you know, it wasn't justabout how awesome you are, it's
about how awesome your buddy istoo.
So so what that?
(33:39):
What that does is that itcounts that Accountability for
someone other than just yourself, because it's gonna be now a.
In this picker case, it couldbe a two-man score instead of a
one.
You know, cuz like you said, andwhen it's, when it's one, it
can't.
Those a players like.
They're already wired that way.
They're wanting to be awesome,but can they make other people
(34:00):
rise up and train and and breakthrough, so that that's one way
that that camp Accomplished.
Matt and then the other one wasbeing a part of a boat crew.
Is was what they were referredto as, and boat crews were
typically between six and eightpeople and let's just say it
pays to be a winner and itreally really sucks to be a
(34:22):
loser.
Yeah, so that was a little bitof negative reinforcement.
Let's just say cuz cool, likethat's probably the canoe
example, I'm guessing, cuz Icould just picture people in
there.
A, they can't swim, so they'realready freaked out.
Right, be like.
The only way you win a canoerace is is everybody's in unison
, right?
So otherwise you're just gonnago around on a circle.
Ben (34:44):
It seems like so, or tip over and grab a hold of the
thing.
Yeah, absolutely.
Brad (34:51):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Those those types of events,evolutions, whatever you're
called, whatever you want, calm,that help really instill.
Instill the like, the micro,like raw part of the big team.
But then there's there's littleteams inside of the big team,
you know, and and just the whole.
It's so true, man, you're onlyas good as your weakest link.
I mean you really are.
(35:11):
You will be exposed at somepoint and that's okay.
Everybody's got a weak link.
But believe me, even your stud,a plus players, somewhere
they're weak.
Maybe it's not in the physical,maybe it's on the emotional
side.
They're dealing with some sortof trauma.
You had no idea, you know, butgoing.
That's what I love about thesecrucibles and just the intimacy
(35:31):
of really, really cool teams.
Is man, what you can get downand have that layer of
conversation?
Holy smokes, not now we're.
This is much bigger than justthe game.
This is about life and whatyou're gonna go on to do after
Football or whatever your sportis, you name it.
What kind of a person you'regonna be, how are you gonna
serve others, how are you gonnalift them up, how you gonna make
the world better.
Ben (35:52):
Yeah, and this, this is, you know, this is getting, like
you said, deep into where realmeaningful change Actually
happens.
And you know, I'll be honest,like the, I remember the first
time that coach Gilbert said,hey, we're not gonna practice
(36:13):
football on the first day of twodays, the first time we're
allowed to, you know, work withthem.
We've got this many hours thatwe're allowed to put them
through stuff and they have tohave this much rest time and we
can do this.
And it was like we wereliterally going to have them
canoe and Lift things and run upthe side of a hill and all of
(36:34):
this.
And I remember, on the, on thefront end of it, thinking, okay,
I mean, like you know, when I,when I was in college, I played
for Chris Creighton and we hadto do it was called the 12
minute run and you know myposition group had to run two
miles and 12 minutes and thatwas, you know, until I, until I
(36:55):
hiked the Grand Canyon, the mostdifficult thing I had ever done
in my entire life.
And I remember, like, in thefourth quarter, we would hold we
wouldn't hold up the four likea lot of teams do we would hold
up three fingers on each hand toremind us of, you know, the,
the time that we had put in andduring these 6 am Workouts and
the work that we had put intothe point when we could make
(37:16):
this 12 minute run, and you know.
So, having these, having thesedeeper motivating driving forces
, I think, is what really startsto separate Good programs from
great programs.
And and I love that you youbrought up, courage can't exist
(37:37):
without fear.
One of the things I talk about,you know, with the, the
athletes I work with one-on-one,is like look, all these tools
that I'm helping you with mentaltoughness, like you can't
practice them without adversity.
You can't, you can't try and,you know, really truly test your
confidence Until you're in thatmoment where you have to decide
(38:00):
Do I have what it takes?
Talk to us Maybe a little bitabout Creating some of that, not
just in a, not just in acrucible event, but, you know,
maybe throughout the season,maybe in the offseason, just
making difficult things Part ofyour culture, because courage
(38:21):
can't exist without fear, justlike mental toughness can't
exist without adversity.
Brad (38:27):
Yeah, I think, like you said, it's practice.
You know you can read about allthese things.
I got a bunch of books on mybookshelf but ask me how many of
those books I've everimplemented.
Maybe less than 1%.
That's just the facts andthat's when it's gonna show up
and that's why, in my definitionof grit, uncommon perseverance
(38:47):
in the face of adversity that'sthat's when you're gonna want to
use it.
It's do you, do you have youpractice it enough to where you
can access it as a subconsciouslevel, or at least think about
what you're doing and Then gointo, you know, maintain your
breath, positivity, all thatgood stuff, or is it as soon as
you know?
You know, you know what hitsthe fan.
Sorry, I don't know if you cancustom a podcast, so I'm
(39:08):
purposely not his kids willlisten, but I can.
You know when it hits the fan.
Let's say, do you just spaz out, do you just completely go
blind?
You just forget and you letfear, like the fear, will take
over, and that initial hit offear is so like that's, it's
okay, that's that's.
That's like.
That's why I'm trying to preach,like that is okay.
(39:29):
That's why I'm a proponent ofJust doing something that that
sucks every day, and there'slots of ways you can do it and
doesn't have to be a creature.
I'm not talking about that.
I mean like little things.
It could be as simple as wakingup 30 minutes earlier a day and
reading.
Maybe you hate to read, but youknow it's gonna make you better
.
All right, cool, let's do that.
We're gonna start with that.
(39:50):
I know ice baths and plungeshave become quite popular here
in the last few years and I'msure there's some scientific
reasons why you know why I likecold what's the first thing that
goes is your breath.
Yeah, you start hyperventilating, and that goes back to what I'm
talking about Get control ofyour breath.
Once you could control that,you're okay.
(40:10):
So that's what.
That's why I love using thoseas part of training.
Is it like that's one of theeasiest ways to train?
To train breath controls, we'regonna get you super cold and
I'm comfortable, and you'regonna learn how to unlock.
You know, breath control.
We're gonna do it right now.
So, so that that's an easy way.
Yeah, I've just, I'm just aproponent of that.
(40:31):
You know doing Doing thingsthat suck, but you know that are
good for you.
You know, I'm not talking aboutputting yourself in harm's way,
or you know, and I mean youcould be in situations where,
yeah, maybe, but you know it'soverall good for you, definitely
.
I mean, I love what you said.
There.
It's these are all tools, right, and there's there's tons of
tools out there.
(40:52):
Get a backpack full of tools,so pick the ones that work for
you too, because they're not allgonna work and all work for me,
right, but then really hold onto what works, and that comes
from experimenting and puttingyourself in those situations,
and that's why, typically, Istart with the physical mountain
which is working out.
Ben (41:08):
Whatever?
Brad (41:08):
your jam is.
I don't care whether it'swalking, yoga, crossfit,
powerlifting, rucking, biking,whatever, just do something.
But to me, like that's the,that's the easiest I want to
train because you could seeimmediate results.
Or that's increased strength,losing weight, you know,
whatever, whatever your goal isright back to that.
(41:30):
Why, why am I doing this?
And then I love, I love workingout and getting myself Like hit
.
Training like get to that point,of man, I can't hardly breathe.
All I can concentrate isgetting that one more rep.
That's where you want to be andthat's when the mental, that's
when the mental game reallystarts for me, and that's when
you know everybody's, everybodyshould have a mantra, like a
(41:52):
word or phrase.
You tell yourself just to kindof get yourself going, that
whole positivity piece.
And my mind is I Usually saygood, like now, now the workouts
actually beginning, like when Ilook around, everybody else is
tired.
I'm like, alright, this iswhere I Accelerate.
You know, I'm not gonna, I'mnot gonna decrease, I'm gonna
(42:15):
put my foot on throttle, I'mgonna go, I'm gonna break some
people you know.
Ben (42:19):
I love that.
Yeah, we, we had a, we had anactivity one time.
We were replacing some negativethoughts and it was like what's
the situation?
And for one of the kids, he wasbrutally honest.
He was like six am Workouts,they suck, you know, he's, he's
telling us as the footballcoaches and it's like, well,
yeah, I know.
And then it's like what's thewhat's the negative thought that
(42:40):
pops into your mind?
He's like you know, not thisagain, my bed's so comfortable.
Why the heck am I doing this?
Is this really gonna doanything?
My getting anything out of this?
And then you know, having themwork through like alright, so
what, what are those?
What are those reminders thatyou need to give yourself?
And he, you know, he lists outalright, maybe here's why we're
gonna do this.
And blah, blah, blah.
(43:01):
And so his, his thing that hecame up with was time to grind.
And so you know, he, he, I'll behonest, like at first it was
almost, he used it almost sointentionally.
Just, it almost came off as likeDisrespectful, like you're
gonna make me do this.
(43:22):
Fine, that I'm gonna go over thetop and I'm gonna throw this
back in your face Time to grind,time to grind, and just saying
it over and over and over andover, to the point where it's
like this is alright, this isgetting a little bit obnoxious
and before you know it, like itcatches on and before you know
it, like all the sudden, theseyou know guys start saying this
(43:42):
and teammates start saying thisand you start seeing some, some
high fives and some chest bumpsand some you know, pushing
people around and it's like Eveneven in the midst of him, you
know whether whether he trulywas the, whether the motivation
behind it was I'm trying to beobnoxious or not, didn't matter,
like the end result was itcompletely changed the, the
(44:06):
environment, it completelychanged the mood.
When people started saying thatand you know that that's that's
something that I love aboutself-talk.
It's like even if you got tofake it till, you feel it like
at the first, at the front endof it, like it's, it's worth it.
You need to be doing this.
Brad (44:26):
Love that.
That should be a t-shirt, likethe team t-shirt that year.
Ben (44:29):
Absolutely, absolutely so I know you know.
Before the show we were talkinga little bit about what you do
now and then also some goalsthat you've got you know in the
future with your own coachingjourney.
Talk to us just a little bitabout you know what you're up to
and some vision for the future.
Brad (44:46):
You know, when I graduated Kokoro camp so this is
something I mean I trained, Ilived it, I breathed it, I slept
it for six months, man, likethere was no going back, like I,
visually, I Saw myselfgraduating.
In fact, I told my wife I waslike I'm gonna make it.
She thought I was nuts.
Everybody I told it up you knowI was doing this, thought I was
nuts, like why you doing this,why you doing this?
And I Told my wife the nightbefore I was like because
(45:09):
there's no contact, right, andthis was actually the first time
I think I wouldn't have talkedto my wife for a whole weekend,
believe it or not.
I told her I was like you'renot gonna hear from me and if
you do, it's bad news.
So meaning like I'm making itor I'm coming back on my shield,
so to speak.
Graduated I mean we're elated.
Right, we started with a classof 50, graduated 25.
(45:32):
So we lost.
We lost half our class.
Mind you, these are all studs.
To go to this program, there'sa minimum standard you have to
hit of push-ups, sit-ups,pull-ups, time outrun.
So you know why?
Why did we lose half the class?
It's the six inches betweenyour ears.
That's why.
That's why it's so important.
That's why we're spending somuch time talking about the
(45:53):
mental game here, not just thefootball, but in life, but my
mentor, mark divine.
He posed a question to theclass and it haunted me, man,
for a long time.
There's just two words, twosimple words.
He said what's next?
I'm like what's next, man?
I just this is it for me, right?
I have reached the mountaintop.
(46:13):
What else?
Ben (46:14):
is there.
Brad (46:15):
Well, for those who have reached the mountaintop, there's
a little bit of depression thatcan sit in.
You know the arrival fallacy.
I don't have any.
I don't have another goal onanother mission to go to, so I
Was kind of time or I was atumbling, tumbling a little bit
like I thought, okay, maybe aSpartan race or some obstacle
(46:36):
course races, stuff like thatcould help fill that void and
those are cool.
But Nothing, that just nothing,compared nothing stacked up to
to my experience at the crucible.
And one day I stumbled uponMark's teachings and he's got a
really cool program calledunbeatable mind that really digs
(46:58):
into a lot of stuff We've beentalking about.
I Said, you know, I thinkthat's my next.
That's my next engagement is Iwant to become certified as
coach.
So it was a year-long program.
I did.
I did it actually during COVIDand they don't just graduate
anyone.
You have to be selected tograduate, which is super cool.
So I got certified in thisprogram and and I began Coaching
(47:21):
adults.
Actually, I typically work withmen.
That just seems to be my, myniche.
So For the last several years Ihave online groups that I coach
over video.
I like to meet early in themorning, so we meet usually at 6
am.
Calls are usually on onWednesdays right now.
So I've got a pretty cool callteam and and people call in from
(47:44):
all over the US and man, wejust do life together, like it's
a lot of what we're talkingabout right now, but we get
super granular on.
You know some of the emotionalstuff that's going on in their
lives and you know what theirpassions are.
What are they trying to do?
Of course there's physicalExercises we all try to
accomplish together, like likefor the month of January, we
(48:06):
were doing, you know, jacowilling yeah, I'm guessing.
Yeah, we're doing his reset noboo, no booze.
You know, drinking lots ofwater, doing a hundred burpees a
day, all sorts of little things, but but that's been a lot of
fun, holds me accountable too,which is why I love it, because
I don't just talk and teach, Ido this alongside with my
(48:27):
clients, like that's importantfor me.
So that's that's what I'm doingnow and and where I hope to go,
and this just kind of recentlyhappened.
So my kids Are still prettyyoung my daughter just turned 13
, ali, and my son Brody he'she's 10 their winter babies, but
they're involved in sports andI Love coaching, so I've began
(48:54):
Becoming an assistant coach andgetting more involved with
sports and community, and just Ilove it and and what I?
What I see a need for, then, andthis is something that I'm
working on, this is my dream isto To create a crucible, if you
will, or events, but for kids,because to me, it's like that's
(49:17):
what that's.
What it's all about is isbringing up this next generation
, and you talk to parents allthe time, I'm sure, as do I, and
there's lots of pressures outthere.
We there's.
There's pressures that wedidn't have to deal with, thank
God, but but these are real, andthe more we can get kids to
(49:38):
open up and and work on becominga little bit grittier, I think
the better off we're all gonnabe man, because they're gonna be
taking care of us one day youknow that's that's the way this
cycle goes.
So that's that's my dream is tois to start hosting events for
kids and, yeah, I can't wait.
So love that we're startingthat now.
Ben (50:00):
So, real quick, just give the.
Give the listeners quickoverview if they're wanting to
get in touch with you, learnmore about you.
What's the best way to do that?
Brad (50:08):
Easiest way would just be go to my website.
It's school of grit org, notcalm, so it's dot org.
Someone owns calm Wasn't gonnapay for it, so go check it out.
It's got all my contactinformation there, or just drop
me an email, brad at school ofgritorg.
Ben (50:28):
Awesome.
Well, brad, thank you so much.
I've thoroughly enjoyed ourtime together.
Really appreciate you joiningus on the show today.
Brad (50:36):
Thanks, man, appreciate you, man, and I look forward to
meeting in person here one day.
Ben (50:40):
Absolutely would love to.
Hey, thanks for tuning in today.
If you found value in today'sepisode, we ask you to please
share it with a friend, with afellow coach that might benefit
from our discussions.
If you want to learn more abouttaking your team's mental game
to the next level, visit MTP dotAcademy.
You can explore the programthat we've got.
You can train your entire teamthroughout the year Super
(51:03):
affordable, very customizableand the best part you'll have
direct access to me.
I will help you come up withthe calendar, I'll help you with
implementation and I'm therefor any questions You've got
along the way, as always.
Thank you so much for joiningin, for listening and until next
time, make your plan and put itto work.
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