March 24, 2025 • 38 mins
What if the biggest obstacle to your performance isn’t physical—but the voice in your head?
In this first episode of our 3-part series on Positive Intelligence, former Division I gymnast Brenna Munson joins us to explore how mastering mental fitness transformed her approach to sports, injuries, and life. Together, we break down key ideas from Chapters 1 and 2 of Positive Intelligence by Shirzad Chamine, introducing the foundational concepts that every athlete, coach, and competitor needs to understand.
You’ll learn:
- How negative thought patterns—or “saboteurs” like the Judge, Controller, and Hyper-Achiever—undermine performance
- Why naming and recognizing these mental habits is the first step to weakening their influence
- What it means to operate from the “Sage” perspective, where curiosity replaces self-judgment
- Why mental training is just as essential as physical training—and how even small efforts can lead to major breakthroughs
Brenna shares her powerful story of navigating injury, self-doubt, and the pressure to achieve. “I would’ve been unstoppable,” she reflects, imagining the difference these tools could’ve made earlier in her career. Whether you're an athlete or simply facing your own performance battles, this episode will challenge you to start training the part of you that matters most: your mind.
Are you an ATHLETE looking to take your training to the next level? Check out our website to learn more about 1-on-1 training opportunities:
mentaltrainingplan.com/athletes
Are you a COACH looking for an affordable year-round mental performance training program? Check out the MTP Academy available through our website:
mentaltrainingplan.com/academy
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Coaching Minds podcast, the
official podcast of MentalTraining Plan.
Help individuals perform attheir best when it matters the
most.
Today you got a very specialguest.
Brenna, thank you so much forjoining the show.
Would love to just start byhaving you introduce yourself
and tell us a little bit aboutyour story.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
So I'm Brenna now Brenna Munsonyou might know me by Brenna
Hauser as my maiden namerecently married.
I'm currently living up inMichigan with my husband and I
practice as a pediatric SLP.
I did the flag football, I didbasketball, baseball literally
(00:43):
anything to keep up with mybrothers.
So sports has been a huge partof my life and with sports I've
had a lot of opportunity tolearn more about my body and, as
I gotten older, how my mindinfluences my body, especially
when, as many older athleteswill know, your body starts to
(01:04):
slow down and you're not asflexible and able to bounce back
like you used to be.
So I'm really happy to be hereto talk about the power of the
mind, the power of positivity,and I would love to.
One of my goals in the futureis go study that further, get a
PhD, do some research and reallydive deep into what it means to
take control of your thoughts.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I love it, really dive deep into what it means to
take control of your thoughts.
I love it.
So you and I both happened tobe reading the book Positive
Intelligence why Only 20% ofTeams and Individuals Achieve
their True Potential.
And you know this was a.
This was a newer resource forme.
Your dad actually suggested thisbook to me, said that it would
(01:46):
probably be worth a read.
Uh, and, to be honest, as I wasgoing through it the whole time,
it was like, oh my goodness,this, this needs to be, like,
rewritten and tailored towardathletes, Like at you know, as
I'm, as I'm reading through thedifferent saboteurs and things
like that, it was like, oh mygoodness, this is that person
(02:07):
and oh, this is, you know, thisis what that person is
struggling with.
And so today we were just kindof, we were hoping to sort of
kick off a I don't know if abook study, a book review just
just kind of talking throughthis book and the power of
positivity.
Because, I'll be honest, I feellike there are a ton of coaches
(02:31):
and athletes who when you, whenyou, start to talk about
positive self-talk or beingpositive, that that just feels
like a bunch of fluffy crap,just a bunch of nonsense that
it's like well, that's neat, yougo sing Kumbaya and sit in a
circle and hold hands, but we'retrying to actually achieve at a
(02:54):
high level.
But I know this was a book thatyou actually used and read
while you were an athlete.
Give us just a little snippet,maybe, of that backstory.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah.
So I read this book my junioryear of college.
I was coming off of two yearsbeing injured, not really
competing as much as I wouldlike to, and I noticed that not
only was my body taking a toll,but my mind was in the gutter.
It was gone.
So I also turned to my dad, whohappens to be one of my biggest
(03:28):
mentors, and he's like, hey, Iread this book, like you should
read it.
And I was like, okay, okay.
So I started reading it, and thefirst time that I read this
book, I went in and I wasthinking I have so much doubt, I
have so much fear, and Istruggled with those thoughts as
an athlete of I don't deserveto be here, I'm not good enough.
(03:50):
And so when I was reading thisbook, it really transformed the
way I participated in my sport.
It wasn't that I wasn't goodenough, it was that my mind was
telling me that Brenna, like you, can't be here, and then being
able to label that gave me somuch power and freedom.
And so throughout that year, Iactually ended up getting to
(04:13):
compete and contribute to ourMac championship team back to
back two times, which is reallyexciting.
But throughout that book, Ireally learned that it's not me.
You know like those thoughtsaren't who you are.
Sometimes your brain is justsabotaging you and being able to
(04:36):
label the enemy gives you aneasier target.
And I still use all thosestrategies.
Today I'm reread it a secondtime and I plan to reread it
year after year to really remindmyself that you know I have the
opportunity to control mythoughts because your life moves
in the strongest direction ofyour thoughts.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So, starting there for sure, and I think it's so
important for athletes to hearfrom other athletes and
specifically higher levelathletes, professional athletes,
you know, division one, collegeathletes who are struggling
with stuff on the mental side ofthe game and are and are
(05:17):
wondering, am I actually goodenough?
And when I mentioned thatthat's maybe a possibility to
some of the younger athletesthat are sometimes doing
one-on-ones with me, it's likethey don't even.
They don't even believe me.
I was.
I was listening to somebody onthe radio today, just some.
Uh it was.
It was a.
(05:37):
It was an interview with a guywho has written multiple,
multiple, multiple books, haswritten multiple, multiple,
multiple books and some, somebig names that people would know
, uh, like Jim Trestle, forexample, and he's he's written
all these books and he wastalking about how, on his radio
show he will sometimes, whensomeone asks a question, he'll
(05:59):
sometimes doubt well, you know,I don't.
I don't know if I'm really theexpert that can answer this.
I don't know if I'm really likethis guy's been in the room,
been in the room with some ofthe most brilliant minds that
that I can, that I can think of,and he's struggling with this,
this same doubt.
Talk, talk to us a little bitabout you know I, I know you.
(06:23):
You briefly mentioned, as aformer one, a division one
gymnast, that obviously you hadto train your body relentlessly.
But but what about training themind?
Like, aside from you justreading this book because your
dad told you that you shouldWere there other ways that you
guys were intentionallystrengthening those mental
(06:44):
muscles, that you guys wereintentionally strengthening
those mental muscles.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yeah, so I feel like, as an athlete myself and maybe
even just the sport I was in,it's based on physical
repetition.
So you train your body, you dothe reps, you do routine after
routine after routine, buildmuscle memory and then it's you
like you earn the right to beconfident in yourself.
(07:07):
But with this book that's allbackwards.
So we didn't really do mentaltraining, we did the no, you
just got to put in the numbersLike you'll feel better when you
put in the numbers, like getthe experience.
But then really being able tosit back and be like you know
what.
I can do, this, I can seemyself doing this, I believe I
(07:30):
can do this.
And the way my athletics changedwhen I took control of thoughts
first, a lot like MTP, likewe're flipping the cycle, the
top down to bottom up, likewe're flipping it upside down,
and finding that there's so muchmore peace, being able to go
into a situation knowing youcan't fail, knowing you can't
(07:52):
fail Cause, even if you fall, mysage which we'll talk about,
the judge in this age, my sagewas like I wonder why that
happened, what could we dodifferently?
And so a lot of peace came withthat.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah, I I feel like this book.
So, like I'm I'm actually usingthis book, work working with
three different individualathletes right now.
Two of them are are divisionone athletes and one of them's
high school athlete and I feellike this is the perfect
compliment to the focus cycle,because the focus cycle is, like
, in my mind, it is the the besttool out there to give 150 kids
(08:29):
in an hour.
Like, in my mind, it gives youso much bang for your buck.
But there are some times thatthose, those voices of
negativity are so strong that Ifeel like this is an entire book
written just on the one littlesection of self-talk from from
my book.
And I feel like this is anentire book written just on the
one little section of self-talkfrom my book.
I feel like it just dives indeep and it's such a great
(08:51):
resource for that.
One of the things that I lovedthat they started off with in
chapter one was just some of theevidence.
Current breakthrough researchin neuroscience, organizational
science and positive psychologyvalidates the principles of
positive intelligence.
And then it goes on.
I mean it's got salespeoplewith higher PQs, so 37% more
(09:18):
than their lower counterparts.
They've got research onnegotiators.
Workers take fewer sick days.
Doctors are able to make moreaccurate diagnoses and faster
diagnoses.
Students performed higher onmath tests.
In the Navy squadrons that wereled by higher PQ commanders had
(09:40):
more annual prizes forefficiency and preparedness.
All the way down to likeCatholic nuns whose journals in
their early 20s showed higher PQlevels lived nearly 10 years
longer than the other nuns intheir group.
Like this, this to me kind ofblew the door open on.
(10:00):
I've got an athlete that I'mspecifically thinking of right
now who I work with and she justtells me positivity feels fake.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Yeah it does.
I think it gets a bad rap, likepeople associate positivity
with happy and that's not thesame thing, you know.
Positivity is knowing thatthere's a way and that you can
be in the suck but you're goingto be fine because you have the
(10:32):
tools to get through.
And I felt that as an athlete,like just think, think good
thoughts, tell yourself you cando it.
As an athlete, I was likeseriously, like shut up.
Like just be happy.
It's not that easy.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Right.
But no you know, just like, justlike on the on the physical
side, sometimes we'll just say,oh, if you're stressed, just
take a deep breath, yeah.
But then we skip over like,look, the vagus nerve runs
through all the major organs inyour body and you can't control
any of them.
And when you get into fight orflight mode and that fire alarm
(11:09):
is pulsing up and down thatnerve, you can't turn it off
very quickly withoutdiaphragmatic breathing.
Like that's literally thefastest way to neurologically
and biologically make thathappen.
That's not, that's not opinion.
Biologically make that happen.
That's not, that's not opinion,that's fact, and I think it
would be.
(11:29):
I think it would be beneficialfor more of the facts behind
positivity, not just not justfalse happiness, like you said,
not just, oh, it's okay,everyone be happy with being
mediocre, but instead choosinglike look, when this situation
happens, when you know this 2016Westfield football team loses a
(11:51):
second game in the regularseason, we've got two choices.
We can either get stuck innegativity or we can say you
know what we're going to dosomething about this.
Here's what we're going tochange.
Can you explain kind of thedifference for everybody between
(12:11):
IQ, eq and PQ that they talkabout in the book?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah.
So PQ is obviously the positivequotient.
I say obviously we're going toget into that the positive
quotient that this book focuseson.
So when we talk about IQ, it'show smart you are, right, like
your knowledge, yourintelligence.
We talk about EQ, our emotionalintelligence.
That's how you can recognizeand manage your emotions.
(12:38):
But where PQ differs is it'syour ability to recognize your
thoughts and then control thosethoughts so they act in your
best interest.
So I had a hard time at firstunderstanding the difference
between emotional intelligenceand positive intelligence.
(12:59):
So emotional intelligence how Ithink of it, is I'm happy, I
feel happy.
This was what happy feels like.
The positive intelligence is mythoughts are saying I feel
happy as a result of X, y, z.
I can take this thought and Ican hold on to that and I can
bring awareness and I can feelhow my body feels when I have
(13:20):
happiness.
And that way, when it comesback around again, you're able
to recognize it, control it.
And it all comes back tomindfulness too, like when you
bring awareness to your body andhow you're feeling, you're
better able to control thosethoughts, which is really where
PQ comes in.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
And I just I think, I think it was powerful when you
know, I think, I think it waspowerful when you know a little
bit later on they talk about aresource where you can go and
take a test or take anassessment, and I did that and
you know, evaluating duringthese, during these little
moments throughout the day, isyour brain helping you or is
(14:02):
your brain hurting you?
And they talk about you knowthe about the saboteurs and the
sages.
Some people have talked aboutthe critic or the coach that's
in your mind.
I mean, neurologically, you canget into.
We could put you on a functionalMRI machine and we could watch
different parts of your brainlight up and we could tell, when
you were given certain prompts,if you went negative and you
(14:27):
started to judge what was goingon, you started to.
I don't know if I'm good enough, I don't know if I have what it
takes or if you're using apositive part of your brain to
say, well, yeah, that's tough,but here's what we're going to
be able to do about it.
I mean again, not not opinion,that's, that's the scientific
(14:47):
facts behind it.
So you know, as a, as anathlete who achieved at a high
level, you know, when was itthat you realized, oh, maybe the
physical skills aren't enough?
Let's go a little bit deeperinto that part of your story.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah.
So I struggled with growthspurt and injury and they
related to each other.
Late high school, early college.
So many people know gymnastsare short, like they're short,
stout.
I was short and stout and thenall of a sudden I was 5'5",
which some might say isn't tall,but for a gymnast I was the
tallest on my team, and so Istruggled with adjusting to my
(15:34):
body and reteaching myself howto do all the skills I've been
doing since I was four years old, because all of a sudden you're
working with differentproportions and then, put on top
of that, you move to adifferent school with different
coaches, different equipment,different expectations.
My body couldn't catch up and itwas taking a toll on my brain.
(15:55):
I was struggling with how Ifelt physically, how strong I
was, how I was able to adjust todifferent settings and like we
had like bar settings, beamsettings, wall settings, things
of that sort, and so I knew thatI couldn't work myself and work
meaning physically work myselfany harder than what I was
(16:17):
already doing.
I didn't have any resource leftin that area, and so a lot of
it for me was setting my prideaside and saying I can't do this
.
The nitty gritty be tough way,I had to fall back and dig
deeper within myself, where it'slike what am I even thinking
about here?
Like how do I get through thisif I'm telling myself I can't do
(16:42):
it?
But yeah, I'm trying to pushmyself past my limit, and so a
lot of it for me was I wasfailing physically and I had no
other option but to turn to themental aspect.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, that's fair.
So do you do you think thatwhen you think back to some of
the other teammates that you had, were were there athletes that
just naturally had a high PQ?
Is that something that somepeople are just good at?
Is that something that everyonehas to train that?
Do you think that that comeseasier for some than others?
(17:18):
Like what, what was yourexperience as a just a teammate?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
That's a tough question, cause I feel like,
even going back to the physical,there's some people that you're
like they just get it, likethey're just good.
I think of my little brother,micah, where it's like I watched
him eat Doritos and a Dr Pepperand then go destroy people on
the football field Like he justhad it.
But then with the positiveintelligence, I feel that some
(17:45):
people it comes easier thanothers and I think there's a lot
of contributing factors to that, maybe upbringing, prior
experiences.
You know, we're all wired alittle bit differently.
I do think that there were somepeople, some people I came in
contact with, were like you'rejust chill, like all the time,
(18:05):
like how do you do that?
You're not stressed, um, butfor the most part I felt it was
the default.
Most people wereanti-positivity.
It was like this sucks, I suck,I hate this.
And so we talk about a team'sPQ and what that did to people
around them.
It makes it really tough toexcel, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah, one of the one of the things from the book that
I pulled out, the there was astudy of 60 teams that found
team PQ was the strongestpredictor of achievement, which
you know I I've seen the studiesbefore that linked um.
You know whether it was likesome body language or some team
(18:52):
camaraderie like there.
There've been studies donebefore that looked at teams that
had.
You know how does giving highfives in a sport to each other
correlate to wins?
And it was like that.
You know there was some, therewas some research behind that,
but I just I felt like time andtime and time again it it just
(19:14):
kept coming back to like higherPQ equals better salary,
stronger relationships, improvedhealth, more creativity like
not even within the athleticsrealm, just in real life.
Here's what all the researchsays, while lower PQ is going to
lead to higher levels of stress, poor immune function, high
(19:38):
blood pressure, pain, higherrisk for conditions like
diabetes and strokes.
I don't understand how thisisn't talked about more.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, I feel a lot of it comes down to
.
It takes a lot of work, work,and I feel that many people,
(20:07):
especially young adults, myselfincluded, we fall into this
victim mentality, which is oneof the saboteurs.
It's like why is this happeningto me, like you need to change.
This is hard for me, and we'reonly looking at the things in
our life that are hard, and,with positive intelligence, it
forces you to look at the thingsthat aren't just hard but are
going well as well, and so ittakes a lot of responsibility
(20:29):
and intentional effort in orderto build this sort of mindset.
So a lot of it comes down toawareness and seriously, just
effort.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah, yeah, I love the Aaron Rogers quote in there
your body is only as strong asyour mind.
Like, I feel, I feel likethat's, I feel like that's one
of those things that would be upon a poster in an elementary
school, like, yeah, everyoneachieves more team.
And we, we read this and we seethis and we're like, yeah,
(21:01):
that's neat.
But then it doesn't go anyfurther and we don't actually do
anything about it.
Or, you know, we get used tohearing parents say, oh, it's
okay, honey, settle down, justtake a deep breath, but then we
just sort of bypass, like, oh,diaphragmatic breathing actually
(21:22):
would be able to help me inthis situation.
So you know, it got into lateron.
You know, 22.8% of us adultsexperienced mental illness.
Like that's one in five, that's.
That's wild to me.
You know, I know that mentalhealth is getting to be more of
(21:44):
a buzzword.
But if you could, knowing whatyou know now, you know if you
could go back and add mentaltraining somewhere into your
athletic career, what do youthink?
What do you think that wouldlook like?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
athletic career.
What do you think?
What do you think that wouldlook like?
Oh my gosh, I think about thatoften.
I would have been unstoppable.
And I say that with confidence,knowing what I have inside of
me that I wasn't able to accessat the time.
So you're I said it before likeyou're only.
Your life moves in thestrongest direction of your
thoughts.
Take control of your thoughts,take control of your life.
(22:23):
And I fell into that victimmentality.
And so if I were, if I go backto college and really just like
nail in this idea of like OK,brenna, you can do this like we
can recognize these thoughts, wecan evaluate them, we can pivot
.
We can do this Like we canrecognize these thoughts, we can
evaluate them, we can pivot, wecan move forward.
(22:43):
I remember being so scared tocompete, not knowing what the
outcome would be.
I didn't even feel control ofmy own body after doing the
routine, for I don't know ever Idid the same routine for like
five years and like not evenfeeling confident in my ability
to do it one time, when I haddone it 20 times that week.
(23:03):
So I can only dream about whatI would have been able to
accomplish as an athlete, butwhat I can say as an adult and
out in the working world.
I have achieved so much morethan I even thought was possible
and what I'm able to handle nowI even thought was possible and
what I'm able to handle now andI say handle meaning like I
(23:24):
don't know, like stressors in mylife, something that would have
kept me up all night I'm likeno big deal, like we can get
through this, and the shifts ofthat used to really tick me off.
I'm not really upset about itanymore.
These skills go past athletics.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
So beneficial as an athlete, but you need them in
real life.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Absolutely, without a doubt.
I've I've talked with my wifebefore, like, when I sometimes
reflect back on the things in 20, you know, 2013, that like
really caused me to have the,the some of the worst anxiety
that I'd ever had.
Um, you know, over the nextcouple of years there, for that
stretch, there's times where Ilook back on that now and I'm
almost like it's almost likeembarrassing that some of that
(24:17):
stuff caused that big of aphysical and mental and
emotional just devastation in mylife.
But it's like I'm not evenremotely close to the same
person that I was back then.
But here's what I, here's whatI love about this book.
(24:37):
So next, the next chapter.
It starts introducing thesaboteurs, right, and so we're
not going to go through all ofthem, but like some of the, the
ones that I thought as I wasreading through, it's like boom,
that relates to athletics.
Uh, you know, the judge andeverybody's got this.
This kind of self-criticism,you know, am I doing this well
(25:01):
enough?
Do I have what it takes?
Did I make mistakes?
Guilt focused on you knowthings?
In the past times you've come upshort.
The hyper-achiever believingthat you know, self-worth only
comes from success, thecontroller needing to be in
control at all times and fearinguncertainty, the restless
(25:26):
saboteur, this idea that you'renever satisfied, you're always
chasing the next goal.
You never appreciate progress,the stickler like this
perfectionist, this fear offailure, this procrastination
due to high standards.
What I loved was it took youknow where.
Whereas we, we talk aboutself-talk in the focus cycle,
(25:51):
this goes so much deeper andstarts to really categorize.
What are these?
Categorize, what are thesethese different saboteurs in
your mind?
Doing, saying whispering to youwere there, were there any of
these that that you related tothe most?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
um, yeah, no, everyone has a judge right.
Like we all have a judge, wejudge ourselves, we judge the
others.
I am a classic hyper achiever,restless, and, my friends and
family might say, a controller.
Um, I am always, I know I amokay I know, I know I'm a
(26:31):
controller, but a controller,but it's something I'm actively
working on.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
There, you go.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
But I would say that, being a gymnast in particular,
I do one of the only sportswhere you only can get points
taken away from you.
So to be anything less thanperfect is unacceptable and that
(26:56):
has created a lot of saboteursfor me and given them a lot of
power.
And, like I'm a hyper achieverbecause the score literally
tells me how not perfect I was,you know I'm a stickler because,
again, I have to be perfect andI'm always achieving more, um,
but yeah, we all have saboteursand we all have characteristics
of all of them and it's going tobe so exciting to get into and
get into all of them deeper,yeah for sure, I loved the.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
I loved the quote.
Saboteurs thrive on fear,stress and self doubt.
The first step is recognizingthem, so they lose their power.
As you, as you think back tolike when you first started
reading this book and you firststarted going, oh my goodness,
Like that's what, that is what,what did that?
(27:42):
You remember what that feltlike for you?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I like relief, felt lighter, um, I think it felt
like a breath of fresh air andit changed the way I talk to
myself.
So sometimes athletes will talkto themselves and like I'd be
like, okay, brenna, like you gotthis, you got this, you got
this, versus saying I got this,like I myself, right here, I
have this.
(28:05):
And then to put that in reverse, it's not like I can't do it.
It's not, brenna, you can't doit.
Oh the judge, they say that Ican't do it.
They, you can't do it.
Oh the judge, they say that Ican't do it.
They have no power, they'reseparate from me.
So it's just being able to like, see it in that perspective
really gives you a lot of powerand feel that you are in control
of your actions and your bodyand your thoughts.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yeah, I really liked.
I'll be honest, I don'tremember if it was this chapter
or if I'm skipping ahead, butwhen it was, when he was talking
about how there's nothing wrongwith a productive reminder,
like there's nothing wrong withhey, you did this and that
wasn't good.
Or hey, this is coming up andyou should prepare for it.
(28:49):
And then you know it's like, oh, that's yeah, that's a good
idea, I should come up with aplan for that.
Or, oh, you know, that wasn'tvery good in that game.
So we do need to practice thisintentionally and deliberately
this week and you know, whatever, but when it's at two o'clock
in the morning and it wakes youup, that's no longer being
(29:09):
helpful in any way.
When it's just constantly, allday, over and over and over, and
over and over, that's that'snot helping you.
That's now becoming adistraction that's taking away
from your ability to perform,prepare, be present, all of
those.
So the on the on the flip sideof this, we have this concept of
(29:32):
the sage.
How would you, how would youdescribe that voice in the mind?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah for sure.
So if we were to break it down,I feel like the judge is more
of like that fight or flight.
And then your sage is your,your rest and your digest.
So the sage is the part of yourbrain that's bringing curiosity
, curiosity, empathy, um, reallylike the calming feelings.
And again, not to confuse sagepositivity with happy, because
(30:04):
you can be upset while stillcuriously navigating a situation
.
And so a lot of what this booktalks about is like identifying
that saboteur, weakening it, itand then strengthening your sage
and those pq muscles.
So the sage is the judge'sworst enemy I just I, I can't
help.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
But but going back to the, the 2016 season, where you
know, we lose a second game, wehave this team that we feel
like is going to be phenomenaland we lose the second game, and
it's like all of the, all ofthe saboteurs in that moment
just wanted to say, well, maybewe're not actually as good as we
(30:45):
thought, maybe we don't havewhat it takes, maybe, maybe this
senior class really isn't asmentally tough as we thought,
maybe we don't have the, maybewe don't have the athletes,
maybe we don't have, maybe wedidn't prepare well enough,
maybe we didn't, maybe, and juston and on and on, where the
sage is able to just separatefrom that and say you know what?
(31:05):
We came up a little bit shortagain.
So we're going to have tochange some things If we want to
change the trajectory of wherewe're headed.
Going to have to change somethings.
If we want to change thetrajectory of where we're headed
, what do we need to change?
How are we going to improve?
How?
Where are we going to get 1%better in all of these little
categories?
Are we sleeping enough?
What's our nutrition like?
Our hydration, our preparation?
(31:27):
Are we watching enough film.
Are we watching film the rightway?
Are we making adjustments?
Live in the game Like it's notpositive?
It's not just I'm positive andI'm happy and yay, we lost the
game and nobody cares, itdoesn't matter, no, it's.
I'm not going to just spiralmindlessly and aimlessly.
I'm going to have some purposeand some direction and I'm going
(31:50):
to evaluate what happened.
Where are we at and what are wedoing next to make things
better?
What was what was in your mind?
What was that?
Maybe the, the example that yougo back to, where, after
learning about some of thesetools, after learning about, you
(32:11):
know you have these, theseparts of your brain that are
trying to sabotage your successand you have a completely
different part of your brainthat's able to help guide you
and, you know, help evaluatewhat needs to be done to
continue on this journey.
What, when was it that you sawthe fruit of that?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah, I can think of a couple examples, the fruit of
that.
Yeah, I can think of a coupleexamples.
I can't think of one off thetop of my head for athletics,
but for post-athletics, CrossFittraining still an athletic
event, training for the MRF,thinking I can't do this.
I had a goal to do the MRF witha vest for the first time and
(32:53):
do it strict, how it's written,not break it down into sets.
And I remember like my bodyfeeling like it was failing
during that training process,but knowing that your mind will
go way or your mind will failbefore your body, is a
comforting thought to me and soactivating my sage of okay, how
(33:15):
is my body feeling?
Is it really failing me?
Am I really that tired?
Oh no, I still have some morein me.
Oh, I can do this.
And just really tuning intowhat I feel and not what I think
, because those are not the same.
You know you're feeling likeyou can't go further and
thinking you can't go furtherare two separate things and all
(33:38):
athletes know that thoseworkouts that you were like this
will never end.
Yeah, you got through it.
You did.
Your body didn't fail you, yourmind trying to.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, and I think the the most important part is that
our athletes have to know andunderstand like you can it
doesn't matter where you're atyou can improve, you can get
better.
Like the brain is malleable.
By by practicing these mentalexercises, you can weaken your
(34:09):
saboteurs.
You can strengthen your, yourmental fitness muscles he calls
them in the book.
You know kind of the strategy.
There's three parts that we'lldive into a little bit deeper in
future episodes, but strategynumber one, the first thing you
can do is weaken the saboteurs,like these voices of negativity
(34:31):
I really like in some of thelater chapters when they they
give the example of this had tocome from somewhere.
This was maybe a protectivemechanism that you put in place,
almost comparing it to to.
You break your arm when you'reat five years old and you put
the cast on and that'sbeneficial and it helps bones
(34:52):
regrow.
But if, if you just leave it onthere, it's going to hinder
growth, it's going to end upbeing a really bad thing.
But we don't teach.
We don't teach kids or evenadults.
How do we move on past these,these frameworks or these ideas
that perfectionism is soimportant?
I have to be perfect.
(35:12):
I can never strike out.
I can never.
You know, whatever that lookslike.
You know, we've talked about onprevious episodes, just the
neuroplasticity behind how,using mindfulness, you can
decrease pain responses, you candecrease emotional reaction,
like all of this.
All of this stuff, all of thisstuff backed by science, backed
(35:37):
by cognitive, brain research,neuropsychology I think.
I think that's what I love, butin my mind, a high school or a
college kid can pick up thisbook and read about things that
are, that are almost like almosthuman right.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah, so really chapter one.
It's okay, we're changing ourbrain, right.
Like you have to takeresponsibility for the thoughts
inside your head and in order tochange the direction of your
life, you need to change thepattern of your thoughts.
And so ending out chapter oneis really just, you know, like
(36:17):
here we go, Like we're startinga journey, like any competition,
like any roadmap to achampionship it's day one and
like we're starting here.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Athletes spend thousands of hours training
their bodies and a fraction ofthat time training their minds.
I mean the, the impact if, ifmental training was prioritized
a 10th of what physical trainingis, I think I think the the
(36:55):
results would be amazing.
I'm I'm blown away by.
Sometimes, you know, when wetalk about hey, we've got this
MTP Academy.
Hey, you know, we've got itreduced down, so all you have to
do is spend 15 minutes a weekon it, and coaches are like,
well, you know, I just I don'tknow if that makes, I don't know
if that's the best use of ourtime to take 15 minutes and
(37:16):
train the mind, and it's like,yep.
But if you don't take any timeto do it and you put in all this
training and all these reps andthen you show up at the state
championship or the nationalchampionship or the fill in the
blank big, meaningful, importantcompetition, and you can't
perform and you can't access anyof that stuff and you don't
(37:36):
have tools to deal withadversity, like, what's it all?
What's it all matter anyways?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
No, exactly.
I mean I can't stress it enoughLike your life.
If you feel like your lifesucks, look at the pattern of
your thoughts.
You know everything thathappens is between your two ears
.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Love it.
I am.
I'm excited to continue workingthrough this book, brenna.
Just appreciate your time,looking forward to the next one.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Yeah, me too.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
If you have questions , don't hesitate to head on over
to mental training plancom.
Click on the contact us.
As always.
If you are interested inlearning about the MTP Academy
would love to have thatconversation with you.
You can get on the website, goto mental training plancom slash
Academy.
There is actually a sectionwhere you can give us an email
address and then we'll shoot youover the worksheet so that you
(38:31):
can see.
Oh, here's what the athleteswould have in front of them the
coaches video that explains whatwe're doing and why during this
session, and then the athletevideo where we guide them
through step-by-stepimplementing some of these tools
.
If you've got questions, pleasedon't hesitate to reach out and
until next time, make your planand put it to work.
Welcome to the Coaching Minds podcast, the
official podcast of MentalTraining Plan.
Help individuals perform attheir best when it matters the
most.
Today you got a very specialguest.
Brenna, thank you so much forjoining the show.
Would love to just start byhaving you introduce yourself
and tell us a little bit aboutyour story.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
So I'm Brenna now Brenna Munsonyou might know me by Brenna
Hauser as my maiden namerecently married.
I'm currently living up inMichigan with my husband and I
practice as a pediatric SLP.
I did the flag football, I didbasketball, baseball literally
(00:43):
anything to keep up with mybrothers.
So sports has been a huge partof my life and with sports I've
had a lot of opportunity tolearn more about my body and, as
I gotten older, how my mindinfluences my body, especially
when, as many older athleteswill know, your body starts to
(01:04):
slow down and you're not asflexible and able to bounce back
like you used to be.
So I'm really happy to be hereto talk about the power of the
mind, the power of positivity,and I would love to.
One of my goals in the futureis go study that further, get a
PhD, do some research and reallydive deep into what it means to
take control of your thoughts.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I love it, really dive deep into what it means to
take control of your thoughts.
I love it.
So you and I both happened tobe reading the book Positive
Intelligence why Only 20% ofTeams and Individuals Achieve
their True Potential.
And you know this was a.
This was a newer resource forme.
Your dad actually suggested thisbook to me, said that it would
(01:46):
probably be worth a read.
Uh, and, to be honest, as I wasgoing through it the whole time,
it was like, oh my goodness,this, this needs to be, like,
rewritten and tailored towardathletes, Like at you know, as
I'm, as I'm reading through thedifferent saboteurs and things
like that, it was like, oh mygoodness, this is that person
(02:07):
and oh, this is, you know, thisis what that person is
struggling with.
And so today we were just kindof, we were hoping to sort of
kick off a I don't know if abook study, a book review just
just kind of talking throughthis book and the power of
positivity.
Because, I'll be honest, I feellike there are a ton of coaches
(02:31):
and athletes who when you, whenyou, start to talk about
positive self-talk or beingpositive, that that just feels
like a bunch of fluffy crap,just a bunch of nonsense that
it's like well, that's neat, yougo sing Kumbaya and sit in a
circle and hold hands, but we'retrying to actually achieve at a
(02:54):
high level.
But I know this was a book thatyou actually used and read
while you were an athlete.
Give us just a little snippet,maybe, of that backstory.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah.
So I read this book my junioryear of college.
I was coming off of two yearsbeing injured, not really
competing as much as I wouldlike to, and I noticed that not
only was my body taking a toll,but my mind was in the gutter.
It was gone.
So I also turned to my dad, whohappens to be one of my biggest
(03:28):
mentors, and he's like, hey, Iread this book, like you should
read it.
And I was like, okay, okay.
So I started reading it, and thefirst time that I read this
book, I went in and I wasthinking I have so much doubt, I
have so much fear, and Istruggled with those thoughts as
an athlete of I don't deserveto be here, I'm not good enough.
(03:50):
And so when I was reading thisbook, it really transformed the
way I participated in my sport.
It wasn't that I wasn't goodenough, it was that my mind was
telling me that Brenna, like you, can't be here, and then being
able to label that gave me somuch power and freedom.
And so throughout that year, Iactually ended up getting to
(04:13):
compete and contribute to ourMac championship team back to
back two times, which is reallyexciting.
But throughout that book, Ireally learned that it's not me.
You know like those thoughtsaren't who you are.
Sometimes your brain is justsabotaging you and being able to
(04:36):
label the enemy gives you aneasier target.
And I still use all thosestrategies.
Today I'm reread it a secondtime and I plan to reread it
year after year to really remindmyself that you know I have the
opportunity to control mythoughts because your life moves
in the strongest direction ofyour thoughts.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So, starting there for sure, and I think it's so
important for athletes to hearfrom other athletes and
specifically higher levelathletes, professional athletes,
you know, division one, collegeathletes who are struggling
with stuff on the mental side ofthe game and are and are
(05:17):
wondering, am I actually goodenough?
And when I mentioned thatthat's maybe a possibility to
some of the younger athletesthat are sometimes doing
one-on-ones with me, it's likethey don't even.
They don't even believe me.
I was.
I was listening to somebody onthe radio today, just some.
Uh it was.
It was a.
(05:37):
It was an interview with a guywho has written multiple,
multiple, multiple books, haswritten multiple, multiple,
multiple books and some, somebig names that people would know
, uh, like Jim Trestle, forexample, and he's he's written
all these books and he wastalking about how, on his radio
show he will sometimes, whensomeone asks a question, he'll
(05:59):
sometimes doubt well, you know,I don't.
I don't know if I'm really theexpert that can answer this.
I don't know if I'm really likethis guy's been in the room,
been in the room with some ofthe most brilliant minds that
that I can, that I can think of,and he's struggling with this,
this same doubt.
Talk, talk to us a little bitabout you know I, I know you.
(06:23):
You briefly mentioned, as aformer one, a division one
gymnast, that obviously you hadto train your body relentlessly.
But but what about training themind?
Like, aside from you justreading this book because your
dad told you that you shouldWere there other ways that you
guys were intentionallystrengthening those mental
(06:44):
muscles, that you guys wereintentionally strengthening
those mental muscles.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yeah, so I feel like, as an athlete myself and maybe
even just the sport I was in,it's based on physical
repetition.
So you train your body, you dothe reps, you do routine after
routine after routine, buildmuscle memory and then it's you
like you earn the right to beconfident in yourself.
(07:07):
But with this book that's allbackwards.
So we didn't really do mentaltraining, we did the no, you
just got to put in the numbersLike you'll feel better when you
put in the numbers, like getthe experience.
But then really being able tosit back and be like you know
what.
I can do, this, I can seemyself doing this, I believe I
(07:30):
can do this.
And the way my athletics changedwhen I took control of thoughts
first, a lot like MTP, likewe're flipping the cycle, the
top down to bottom up, likewe're flipping it upside down,
and finding that there's so muchmore peace, being able to go
into a situation knowing youcan't fail, knowing you can't
(07:52):
fail Cause, even if you fall, mysage which we'll talk about,
the judge in this age, my sagewas like I wonder why that
happened, what could we dodifferently?
And so a lot of peace came withthat.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah, I I feel like this book.
So, like I'm I'm actually usingthis book, work working with
three different individualathletes right now.
Two of them are are divisionone athletes and one of them's
high school athlete and I feellike this is the perfect
compliment to the focus cycle,because the focus cycle is, like
, in my mind, it is the the besttool out there to give 150 kids
(08:29):
in an hour.
Like, in my mind, it gives youso much bang for your buck.
But there are some times thatthose, those voices of
negativity are so strong that Ifeel like this is an entire book
written just on the one littlesection of self-talk from from
my book.
And I feel like this is anentire book written just on the
one little section of self-talkfrom my book.
I feel like it just dives indeep and it's such a great
(08:51):
resource for that.
One of the things that I lovedthat they started off with in
chapter one was just some of theevidence.
Current breakthrough researchin neuroscience, organizational
science and positive psychologyvalidates the principles of
positive intelligence.
And then it goes on.
I mean it's got salespeoplewith higher PQs, so 37% more
(09:18):
than their lower counterparts.
They've got research onnegotiators.
Workers take fewer sick days.
Doctors are able to make moreaccurate diagnoses and faster
diagnoses.
Students performed higher onmath tests.
In the Navy squadrons that wereled by higher PQ commanders had
(09:40):
more annual prizes forefficiency and preparedness.
All the way down to likeCatholic nuns whose journals in
their early 20s showed higher PQlevels lived nearly 10 years
longer than the other nuns intheir group.
Like this, this to me kind ofblew the door open on.
(10:00):
I've got an athlete that I'mspecifically thinking of right
now who I work with and she justtells me positivity feels fake.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Yeah it does.
I think it gets a bad rap, likepeople associate positivity
with happy and that's not thesame thing, you know.
Positivity is knowing thatthere's a way and that you can
be in the suck but you're goingto be fine because you have the
(10:32):
tools to get through.
And I felt that as an athlete,like just think, think good
thoughts, tell yourself you cando it.
As an athlete, I was likeseriously, like shut up.
Like just be happy.
It's not that easy.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Right.
But no you know, just like, justlike on the on the physical
side, sometimes we'll just say,oh, if you're stressed, just
take a deep breath, yeah.
But then we skip over like,look, the vagus nerve runs
through all the major organs inyour body and you can't control
any of them.
And when you get into fight orflight mode and that fire alarm
(11:09):
is pulsing up and down thatnerve, you can't turn it off
very quickly withoutdiaphragmatic breathing.
Like that's literally thefastest way to neurologically
and biologically make thathappen.
That's not, that's not opinion.
Biologically make that happen.
That's not, that's not opinion,that's fact, and I think it
would be.
(11:29):
I think it would be beneficialfor more of the facts behind
positivity, not just not justfalse happiness, like you said,
not just, oh, it's okay,everyone be happy with being
mediocre, but instead choosinglike look, when this situation
happens, when you know this 2016Westfield football team loses a
(11:51):
second game in the regularseason, we've got two choices.
We can either get stuck innegativity or we can say you
know what we're going to dosomething about this.
Here's what we're going tochange.
Can you explain kind of thedifference for everybody between
(12:11):
IQ, eq and PQ that they talkabout in the book?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah.
So PQ is obviously the positivequotient.
I say obviously we're going toget into that the positive
quotient that this book focuseson.
So when we talk about IQ, it'show smart you are, right, like
your knowledge, yourintelligence.
We talk about EQ, our emotionalintelligence.
That's how you can recognizeand manage your emotions.
(12:38):
But where PQ differs is it'syour ability to recognize your
thoughts and then control thosethoughts so they act in your
best interest.
So I had a hard time at firstunderstanding the difference
between emotional intelligenceand positive intelligence.
(12:59):
So emotional intelligence how Ithink of it, is I'm happy, I
feel happy.
This was what happy feels like.
The positive intelligence is mythoughts are saying I feel
happy as a result of X, y, z.
I can take this thought and Ican hold on to that and I can
bring awareness and I can feelhow my body feels when I have
(13:20):
happiness.
And that way, when it comesback around again, you're able
to recognize it, control it.
And it all comes back tomindfulness too, like when you
bring awareness to your body andhow you're feeling, you're
better able to control thosethoughts, which is really where
PQ comes in.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
And I just I think, I think it was powerful when you
know, I think, I think it waspowerful when you know a little
bit later on they talk about aresource where you can go and
take a test or take anassessment, and I did that and
you know, evaluating duringthese, during these little
moments throughout the day, isyour brain helping you or is
(14:02):
your brain hurting you?
And they talk about you knowthe about the saboteurs and the
sages.
Some people have talked aboutthe critic or the coach that's
in your mind.
I mean, neurologically, you canget into.
We could put you on a functionalMRI machine and we could watch
different parts of your brainlight up and we could tell, when
you were given certain prompts,if you went negative and you
(14:27):
started to judge what was goingon, you started to.
I don't know if I'm good enough, I don't know if I have what it
takes or if you're using apositive part of your brain to
say, well, yeah, that's tough,but here's what we're going to
be able to do about it.
I mean again, not not opinion,that's, that's the scientific
(14:47):
facts behind it.
So you know, as a, as anathlete who achieved at a high
level, you know, when was itthat you realized, oh, maybe the
physical skills aren't enough?
Let's go a little bit deeperinto that part of your story.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah.
So I struggled with growthspurt and injury and they
related to each other.
Late high school, early college.
So many people know gymnastsare short, like they're short,
stout.
I was short and stout and thenall of a sudden I was 5'5",
which some might say isn't tall,but for a gymnast I was the
tallest on my team, and so Istruggled with adjusting to my
(15:34):
body and reteaching myself howto do all the skills I've been
doing since I was four years old, because all of a sudden you're
working with differentproportions and then, put on top
of that, you move to adifferent school with different
coaches, different equipment,different expectations.
My body couldn't catch up and itwas taking a toll on my brain.
(15:55):
I was struggling with how Ifelt physically, how strong I
was, how I was able to adjust todifferent settings and like we
had like bar settings, beamsettings, wall settings, things
of that sort, and so I knew thatI couldn't work myself and work
meaning physically work myselfany harder than what I was
(16:17):
already doing.
I didn't have any resource leftin that area, and so a lot of
it for me was setting my prideaside and saying I can't do this
.
The nitty gritty be tough way,I had to fall back and dig
deeper within myself, where it'slike what am I even thinking
about here?
Like how do I get through thisif I'm telling myself I can't do
(16:42):
it?
But yeah, I'm trying to pushmyself past my limit, and so a
lot of it for me was I wasfailing physically and I had no
other option but to turn to themental aspect.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, that's fair.
So do you do you think thatwhen you think back to some of
the other teammates that you had, were were there athletes that
just naturally had a high PQ?
Is that something that somepeople are just good at?
Is that something that everyonehas to train that?
Do you think that that comeseasier for some than others?
(17:18):
Like what, what was yourexperience as a just a teammate?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
That's a tough question, cause I feel like,
even going back to the physical,there's some people that you're
like they just get it, likethey're just good.
I think of my little brother,micah, where it's like I watched
him eat Doritos and a Dr Pepperand then go destroy people on
the football field Like he justhad it.
But then with the positiveintelligence, I feel that some
(17:45):
people it comes easier thanothers and I think there's a lot
of contributing factors to that, maybe upbringing, prior
experiences.
You know, we're all wired alittle bit differently.
I do think that there were somepeople, some people I came in
contact with, were like you'rejust chill, like all the time,
(18:05):
like how do you do that?
You're not stressed, um, butfor the most part I felt it was
the default.
Most people wereanti-positivity.
It was like this sucks, I suck,I hate this.
And so we talk about a team'sPQ and what that did to people
around them.
It makes it really tough toexcel, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah, one of the one of the things from the book that
I pulled out, the there was astudy of 60 teams that found
team PQ was the strongestpredictor of achievement, which
you know I I've seen the studiesbefore that linked um.
You know whether it was likesome body language or some team
(18:52):
camaraderie like there.
There've been studies donebefore that looked at teams that
had.
You know how does giving highfives in a sport to each other
correlate to wins?
And it was like that.
You know there was some, therewas some research behind that,
but I just I felt like time andtime and time again it it just
(19:14):
kept coming back to like higherPQ equals better salary,
stronger relationships, improvedhealth, more creativity like
not even within the athleticsrealm, just in real life.
Here's what all the researchsays, while lower PQ is going to
lead to higher levels of stress, poor immune function, high
(19:38):
blood pressure, pain, higherrisk for conditions like
diabetes and strokes.
I don't understand how thisisn't talked about more.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, I feel a lot of it comes down to
.
It takes a lot of work, work,and I feel that many people,
(20:07):
especially young adults, myselfincluded, we fall into this
victim mentality, which is oneof the saboteurs.
It's like why is this happeningto me, like you need to change.
This is hard for me, and we'reonly looking at the things in
our life that are hard, and,with positive intelligence, it
forces you to look at the thingsthat aren't just hard but are
going well as well, and so ittakes a lot of responsibility
(20:29):
and intentional effort in orderto build this sort of mindset.
So a lot of it comes down toawareness and seriously, just
effort.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah, yeah, I love the Aaron Rogers quote in there
your body is only as strong asyour mind.
Like, I feel, I feel likethat's, I feel like that's one
of those things that would be upon a poster in an elementary
school, like, yeah, everyoneachieves more team.
And we, we read this and we seethis and we're like, yeah,
(21:01):
that's neat.
But then it doesn't go anyfurther and we don't actually do
anything about it.
Or, you know, we get used tohearing parents say, oh, it's
okay, honey, settle down, justtake a deep breath, but then we
just sort of bypass, like, oh,diaphragmatic breathing actually
(21:22):
would be able to help me inthis situation.
So you know, it got into lateron.
You know, 22.8% of us adultsexperienced mental illness.
Like that's one in five, that's.
That's wild to me.
You know, I know that mentalhealth is getting to be more of
(21:44):
a buzzword.
But if you could, knowing whatyou know now, you know if you
could go back and add mentaltraining somewhere into your
athletic career, what do youthink?
What do you think that wouldlook like?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
athletic career.
What do you think?
What do you think that wouldlook like?
Oh my gosh, I think about thatoften.
I would have been unstoppable.
And I say that with confidence,knowing what I have inside of
me that I wasn't able to accessat the time.
So you're I said it before likeyou're only.
Your life moves in thestrongest direction of your
thoughts.
Take control of your thoughts,take control of your life.
(22:23):
And I fell into that victimmentality.
And so if I were, if I go backto college and really just like
nail in this idea of like OK,brenna, you can do this like we
can recognize these thoughts, wecan evaluate them, we can pivot
.
We can do this Like we canrecognize these thoughts, we can
evaluate them, we can pivot, wecan move forward.
(22:43):
I remember being so scared tocompete, not knowing what the
outcome would be.
I didn't even feel control ofmy own body after doing the
routine, for I don't know ever Idid the same routine for like
five years and like not evenfeeling confident in my ability
to do it one time, when I haddone it 20 times that week.
(23:03):
So I can only dream about whatI would have been able to
accomplish as an athlete, butwhat I can say as an adult and
out in the working world.
I have achieved so much morethan I even thought was possible
and what I'm able to handle nowI even thought was possible and
what I'm able to handle now andI say handle meaning like I
(23:24):
don't know, like stressors in mylife, something that would have
kept me up all night I'm likeno big deal, like we can get
through this, and the shifts ofthat used to really tick me off.
I'm not really upset about itanymore.
These skills go past athletics.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
So beneficial as an athlete, but you need them in
real life.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Absolutely, without a doubt.
I've I've talked with my wifebefore, like, when I sometimes
reflect back on the things in 20, you know, 2013, that like
really caused me to have the,the some of the worst anxiety
that I'd ever had.
Um, you know, over the nextcouple of years there, for that
stretch, there's times where Ilook back on that now and I'm
almost like it's almost likeembarrassing that some of that
(24:17):
stuff caused that big of aphysical and mental and
emotional just devastation in mylife.
But it's like I'm not evenremotely close to the same
person that I was back then.
But here's what I, here's whatI love about this book.
(24:37):
So next, the next chapter.
It starts introducing thesaboteurs, right, and so we're
not going to go through all ofthem, but like some of the, the
ones that I thought as I wasreading through, it's like boom,
that relates to athletics.
Uh, you know, the judge andeverybody's got this.
This kind of self-criticism,you know, am I doing this well
(25:01):
enough?
Do I have what it takes?
Did I make mistakes?
Guilt focused on you knowthings?
In the past times you've come upshort.
The hyper-achiever believingthat you know, self-worth only
comes from success, thecontroller needing to be in
control at all times and fearinguncertainty, the restless
(25:26):
saboteur, this idea that you'renever satisfied, you're always
chasing the next goal.
You never appreciate progress,the stickler like this
perfectionist, this fear offailure, this procrastination
due to high standards.
What I loved was it took youknow where.
Whereas we, we talk aboutself-talk in the focus cycle,
(25:51):
this goes so much deeper andstarts to really categorize.
What are these?
Categorize, what are thesethese different saboteurs in
your mind?
Doing, saying whispering to youwere there, were there any of
these that that you related tothe most?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
um, yeah, no, everyone has a judge right.
Like we all have a judge, wejudge ourselves, we judge the
others.
I am a classic hyper achiever,restless, and, my friends and
family might say, a controller.
Um, I am always, I know I amokay I know, I know I'm a
(26:31):
controller, but a controller,but it's something I'm actively
working on.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
There, you go.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
But I would say that, being a gymnast in particular,
I do one of the only sportswhere you only can get points
taken away from you.
So to be anything less thanperfect is unacceptable and that
(26:56):
has created a lot of saboteursfor me and given them a lot of
power.
And, like I'm a hyper achieverbecause the score literally
tells me how not perfect I was,you know I'm a stickler because,
again, I have to be perfect andI'm always achieving more, um,
but yeah, we all have saboteursand we all have characteristics
of all of them and it's going tobe so exciting to get into and
get into all of them deeper,yeah for sure, I loved the.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
I loved the quote.
Saboteurs thrive on fear,stress and self doubt.
The first step is recognizingthem, so they lose their power.
As you, as you think back tolike when you first started
reading this book and you firststarted going, oh my goodness,
Like that's what, that is what,what did that?
(27:42):
You remember what that feltlike for you?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I like relief, felt lighter, um, I think it felt
like a breath of fresh air andit changed the way I talk to
myself.
So sometimes athletes will talkto themselves and like I'd be
like, okay, brenna, like you gotthis, you got this, you got
this, versus saying I got this,like I myself, right here, I
have this.
(28:05):
And then to put that in reverse, it's not like I can't do it.
It's not, brenna, you can't doit.
Oh the judge, they say that Ican't do it.
They, you can't do it.
Oh the judge, they say that Ican't do it.
They have no power, they'reseparate from me.
So it's just being able to like, see it in that perspective
really gives you a lot of powerand feel that you are in control
of your actions and your bodyand your thoughts.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yeah, I really liked.
I'll be honest, I don'tremember if it was this chapter
or if I'm skipping ahead, butwhen it was, when he was talking
about how there's nothing wrongwith a productive reminder,
like there's nothing wrong withhey, you did this and that
wasn't good.
Or hey, this is coming up andyou should prepare for it.
(28:49):
And then you know it's like, oh, that's yeah, that's a good
idea, I should come up with aplan for that.
Or, oh, you know, that wasn'tvery good in that game.
So we do need to practice thisintentionally and deliberately
this week and you know, whatever, but when it's at two o'clock
in the morning and it wakes youup, that's no longer being
(29:09):
helpful in any way.
When it's just constantly, allday, over and over and over, and
over and over, that's that'snot helping you.
That's now becoming adistraction that's taking away
from your ability to perform,prepare, be present, all of
those.
So the on the on the flip sideof this, we have this concept of
(29:32):
the sage.
How would you, how would youdescribe that voice in the mind?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah for sure.
So if we were to break it down,I feel like the judge is more
of like that fight or flight.
And then your sage is your,your rest and your digest.
So the sage is the part of yourbrain that's bringing curiosity
, curiosity, empathy, um, reallylike the calming feelings.
And again, not to confuse sagepositivity with happy, because
(30:04):
you can be upset while stillcuriously navigating a situation
.
And so a lot of what this booktalks about is like identifying
that saboteur, weakening it, itand then strengthening your sage
and those pq muscles.
So the sage is the judge'sworst enemy I just I, I can't
help.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
But but going back to the, the 2016 season, where you
know, we lose a second game, wehave this team that we feel
like is going to be phenomenaland we lose the second game, and
it's like all of the, all ofthe saboteurs in that moment
just wanted to say, well, maybewe're not actually as good as we
(30:45):
thought, maybe we don't havewhat it takes, maybe, maybe this
senior class really isn't asmentally tough as we thought,
maybe we don't have the, maybewe don't have the athletes,
maybe we don't have, maybe wedidn't prepare well enough,
maybe we didn't, maybe, and juston and on and on, where the
sage is able to just separatefrom that and say you know what?
(31:05):
We came up a little bit shortagain.
So we're going to have tochange some things If we want to
change the trajectory of wherewe're headed.
Going to have to change somethings.
If we want to change thetrajectory of where we're headed
, what do we need to change?
How are we going to improve?
How?
Where are we going to get 1%better in all of these little
categories?
Are we sleeping enough?
What's our nutrition like?
Our hydration, our preparation?
(31:27):
Are we watching enough film.
Are we watching film the rightway?
Are we making adjustments?
Live in the game Like it's notpositive?
It's not just I'm positive andI'm happy and yay, we lost the
game and nobody cares, itdoesn't matter, no, it's.
I'm not going to just spiralmindlessly and aimlessly.
I'm going to have some purposeand some direction and I'm going
(31:50):
to evaluate what happened.
Where are we at and what are wedoing next to make things
better?
What was what was in your mind?
What was that?
Maybe the, the example that yougo back to, where, after
learning about some of thesetools, after learning about, you
(32:11):
know you have these, theseparts of your brain that are
trying to sabotage your successand you have a completely
different part of your brainthat's able to help guide you
and, you know, help evaluatewhat needs to be done to
continue on this journey.
What, when was it that you sawthe fruit of that?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah, I can think of a couple examples, the fruit of
that.
Yeah, I can think of a coupleexamples.
I can't think of one off thetop of my head for athletics,
but for post-athletics, CrossFittraining still an athletic
event, training for the MRF,thinking I can't do this.
I had a goal to do the MRF witha vest for the first time and
(32:53):
do it strict, how it's written,not break it down into sets.
And I remember like my bodyfeeling like it was failing
during that training process,but knowing that your mind will
go way or your mind will failbefore your body, is a
comforting thought to me and soactivating my sage of okay, how
(33:15):
is my body feeling?
Is it really failing me?
Am I really that tired?
Oh no, I still have some morein me.
Oh, I can do this.
And just really tuning intowhat I feel and not what I think
, because those are not the same.
You know you're feeling likeyou can't go further and
thinking you can't go furtherare two separate things and all
(33:38):
athletes know that thoseworkouts that you were like this
will never end.
Yeah, you got through it.
You did.
Your body didn't fail you, yourmind trying to.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, and I think the the most important part is that
our athletes have to know andunderstand like you can it
doesn't matter where you're atyou can improve, you can get
better.
Like the brain is malleable.
By by practicing these mentalexercises, you can weaken your
(34:09):
saboteurs.
You can strengthen your, yourmental fitness muscles he calls
them in the book.
You know kind of the strategy.
There's three parts that we'lldive into a little bit deeper in
future episodes, but strategynumber one, the first thing you
can do is weaken the saboteurs,like these voices of negativity
(34:31):
I really like in some of thelater chapters when they they
give the example of this had tocome from somewhere.
This was maybe a protectivemechanism that you put in place,
almost comparing it to to.
You break your arm when you'reat five years old and you put
the cast on and that'sbeneficial and it helps bones
(34:52):
regrow.
But if, if you just leave it onthere, it's going to hinder
growth, it's going to end upbeing a really bad thing.
But we don't teach.
We don't teach kids or evenadults.
How do we move on past these,these frameworks or these ideas
that perfectionism is soimportant?
I have to be perfect.
(35:12):
I can never strike out.
I can never.
You know, whatever that lookslike.
You know, we've talked about onprevious episodes, just the
neuroplasticity behind how,using mindfulness, you can
decrease pain responses, you candecrease emotional reaction,
like all of this.
All of this stuff, all of thisstuff backed by science, backed
(35:37):
by cognitive, brain research,neuropsychology I think.
I think that's what I love, butin my mind, a high school or a
college kid can pick up thisbook and read about things that
are, that are almost like almosthuman right.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah, so really chapter one.
It's okay, we're changing ourbrain, right.
Like you have to takeresponsibility for the thoughts
inside your head and in order tochange the direction of your
life, you need to change thepattern of your thoughts.
And so ending out chapter oneis really just, you know, like
(36:17):
here we go, Like we're startinga journey, like any competition,
like any roadmap to achampionship it's day one and
like we're starting here.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Athletes spend thousands of hours training
their bodies and a fraction ofthat time training their minds.
I mean the, the impact if, ifmental training was prioritized
a 10th of what physical trainingis, I think I think the the
(36:55):
results would be amazing.
I'm I'm blown away by.
Sometimes, you know, when wetalk about hey, we've got this
MTP Academy.
Hey, you know, we've got itreduced down, so all you have to
do is spend 15 minutes a weekon it, and coaches are like,
well, you know, I just I don'tknow if that makes, I don't know
if that's the best use of ourtime to take 15 minutes and
(37:16):
train the mind, and it's like,yep.
But if you don't take any timeto do it and you put in all this
training and all these reps andthen you show up at the state
championship or the nationalchampionship or the fill in the
blank big, meaningful, importantcompetition, and you can't
perform and you can't access anyof that stuff and you don't
(37:36):
have tools to deal withadversity, like, what's it all?
What's it all matter anyways?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
No, exactly.
I mean I can't stress it enoughLike your life.
If you feel like your lifesucks, look at the pattern of
your thoughts.
You know everything thathappens is between your two ears
.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Love it.
I am.
I'm excited to continue workingthrough this book, brenna.
Just appreciate your time,looking forward to the next one.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Yeah, me too.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
If you have questions , don't hesitate to head on over
to mental training plancom.
Click on the contact us.
As always.
If you are interested inlearning about the MTP Academy
would love to have thatconversation with you.
You can get on the website, goto mental training plancom slash
Academy.
There is actually a sectionwhere you can give us an email
address and then we'll shoot youover the worksheet so that you
(38:31):
can see.
Oh, here's what the athleteswould have in front of them the
coaches video that explains whatwe're doing and why during this
session, and then the athletevideo where we guide them
through step-by-stepimplementing some of these tools
.
If you've got questions, pleasedon't hesitate to reach out and
until next time, make your planand put it to work.
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