#144 - Confidence Pt 5: Pro Golfer Jocelyn Bruch on Using These Tools On The Course

Today, I’m joined by Jocelyn Bruch: Indiana individual state champion, Division I golfer at Purdue, national championship competitor, and now a professional who just returned from Q-School.

We dig into the real tools she used in competition — not theory — to calm nerves, trust her preparation, and perform when it counts:

• Diaphragmatic Breathing (16+ seconds, not 2!) to lower heart rate and get present
• FMR (Forced Muscular Relaxation) to release tension before swings and putts
• Go-To Statement she repeats before every shot to push out negative thoughts
• Caddie Game-Plan Meetings and a simple “got it” cue to protect her routine
• Earned / Shows / Trained Confidence (and why “fake it till you make it” cracks under pressure)
• Using the book out of order to solve immediate problems, then spot-checking before rounds

If this helps you, please share it with a teammate, parent, or coach who could use a practical confidence framework.

Resources:

• My book: Confidence: Build It, Trust It, Show It — https://amzn.to/3LqECEB (includes FREE athlete workbook)

Are you an ATHLETE looking to take your training to the next level? Check out our website to learn more about 1-on-1 training opportunities:
mentaltrainingplan.com/athletes

Are you a COACH looking for an affordable year-round mental performance training program? Check out the MTP Academy available through our website:
mentaltrainingplan.com/teams

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hey, welcome back to the Coaching Minds podcast.
Before we dive in, I want to saythank you.
Thank you for listening.
Thank you for sharing the show.
Thank you for coming back weekafter week.
It truly means the world to me.
My wife and I were talking theother day when we started this
just before COVID.
Isaac and I had this harebrainidea to start recording a

(00:24):
podcast about some of the thingsthat we were doing to train the
mental side of the game.
She said, Yeah, I figured you'ddo it for like a month or two
and it would sort of fizzle out.
And here we are.
So thank you from the bottom ofmy heart.
Today's episode is one that Ihave been excited about for a
long time.
If you've been following ourconfidence series, you know

(00:47):
we've been walking through thekey principles from my brand new
book.
And as much as I love teachingthis material, I really wanted
you today to hear from someonewho's actually lived it, used it
day in, day out at some of thehighest levels of competition.

(01:07):
Today we're joined by a specialguest, Jocelyn Brook.
She was an elite high schoolgolfer, uh, actually won some
individual accolades, includingan individual state championship
in Indiana.
Uh, I was fortunate enough to dosome work with her team uh while
she was in high school.
She went on to play Division Igolf, competed for a national

(01:31):
championship at PurdueUniversity.
During her college career, I hadthe privilege of working with
her one-on-one and she kind ofdeveloped some specific tools to
address some areas that she'lltalk about here in a little bit
on the mental side of her game.
And now as she's taking thisnext big step, launching her
professional golf career.

(01:53):
Over the the past six months orso, as she's graduated from
college and really startedpreparing to head off for Q
school, I've I've been blownaway, not just not just with the
actual plan itself that we'vedeveloped together, but her
commitment to it.

(02:15):
And just like anyone who's doingsomething for the first time, we
had some doubts, doubts aboutpreparation, whether she was
good enough, whether she hadwhat it takes, but she didn't
run from that.
We learned how to work throughthose doubts.
She put in the time, the reps,the reflection, and the

(02:35):
discipline required to buildtrue confidence.
Confidence that we can trustunder pressure.
After she got back from roundone of Q school, we were talking
on the phone and she saidsomething that honestly kind of
stopped me in my tracks.
Said, Ben, it felt like youwrote this book for me.

(02:56):
And you know, that that hit mebecause you know what she meant,
the concepts, the bricks, thetools, we used them.
Like not in theory, incompetition, in airports, in
hotels, at qualifiers, the nightbefore big rounds, the morning
of high pressure tea times.
And today you're gonna hearexactly how she did that.

(03:19):
Now, I know we're gonna haveprobably a decent number of
first-time listeners joining usfor this episode.
If you enjoy what you hear, ifyou want to learn more about the
science and the system behinddeveloping confidence, we're
walking through the entire bookright now on the podcast.
You can go back and listen tothe previous four episodes for a

(03:40):
little bit more context.
Obviously, if you want to buythe book, the link to do that on
Amazon is in the show notes.
Keep in mind that does come witha free athlete workbook that you
can use as an individual or as acoach in a team setting.
Really, I just I wanted thisbook to be the ultimate resource

(04:01):
for athletes, for coaches,parents, leaders, people in the
business world.
JB's story really just shows howflexible it is, how she read the
whole thing, but how she alsospot checked specific chapters
based on what she needed eitherthat week or, you know, even
sections that she went back tothe night before a tournament.

(04:24):
And also, if you're a coach orsomeone in a leadership role,
you can also just start at thebeginning and work your way
straight through to get acomplete picture of how to
really build confidence from theground up.
Again, thank you for being here.
If this episode helps you ormaybe makes you think of someone
who could really benefit from aresource like this, someone who

(04:48):
needs confidence, resilience,the ability to perform under
pressure, please share thisepisode with them.
And without further ado, let'sdive into my conversation with
Jocelyn Brook.
Hey, welcome to the CoachingMinds Podcast, the official
podcast of Metal Training Plan.
Today, joined by a very specialguest who actually has been on
the show before quite a whileago now.

(05:11):
Uh, Jocelyn Brooke.
Jocelyn, thank you so much forbeing here today.

SPEAKER_01 (05:15):
Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
Absolutely.
So to start off, would love tojust for anyone who doesn't know
you, hasn't heard your story,maybe just kind of you know,
catch us up.
Obviously, you had success as ahigh school golfer, um, playing
golf professionally now.
Fill us in a little bit a littlebit on uh your story.

SPEAKER_01 (05:35):
Well, I started playing golf when I was like
four years old.
Um, so I'd been playing for areally long time.
Um, grew up playing some othersports as well.
Um, but golf has always been myfavorite.
My favorite part about golf hasalways been that like nothing's
ever the same, like it's alwaysdifferent.
That really just it kept like Icould never get bored with golf
because it was always changing.

(05:56):
Um, so I've been playing golffor a really long time, but it
was around, I think at age sevenwas my first tournament.
Um, around like I want to say 11or 12 is when I started just
focusing on only golf.
And ever since I want to say Iwas seven years old, I decided I
wanted to play professionalgolf.
Um, so I've it's just kind ofbeen a journey of mine since

(06:18):
then.
Um getting ready for high schoolgolf, going through college
recruiting, um, playing incollege, and now I'm a
professional golfer.
But it's always just kind ofbeen a part of my story that I
wanted to play professional asthe end goal.
And back when I was in highschool, um they hadn't changed
the recruiting rules yet.

(06:39):
I was in eighth grade when Istarted going through college
recruiting, which is really wildto think of now because I think
you have to be a junior in highschool to start talking to
coaches and start going onvisits.
I started in eighth grade, likemy first visit was in eighth
grade.

SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
Which that in and of itself starts applying quite a
bit of pressure pretty early inyour career.

SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
No, for sure.
It it's really wild to look backon, to be honest.
Luckily, I had I startedbuilding like a really great
support system around, I'd say,eighth grade.
Um, and then going into highschool, um, having a great
system, having a great supportsystem was really like what
helped me get throughrecruiting.
My high school golf coach, umJosh Bryant, uh, was kind of the

(07:20):
main person that helps me talkto coaches.
It was a big weight, take a bigweight lifted off of me once I
um committed to Purdue.
And I committed my junior year.
So like I still had half of myjunior year of high school left
and then my entire senior year,but like I felt a weight lifted
off.
I could just focus on my owngame at that point.
When I was in high school, I setthe IHSAA record for the lowest

(07:44):
round um of 62, 11 under mysophomore year.
I believe that's still astanding record, um, but I
haven't checked.
And then my junior year of highschool, I won the IHSAA
individual state championship.
And I also won the Indiana GirlsJunior Championship as well in

(08:06):
high school.

SPEAKER_00 (08:06):
Awesome.
So talk to us just a little bitabout the the recruiting process
and maybe some advice you havefor high schoolers that are
going through that right now.
Because that's certainlysomething that, you know, while
you're out on the course, youdon't want to be thinking about
a bunch of other junk.
But at the same time, it's it'shard to look over and you

(08:27):
realize, oh, there's that coachwho may or may not be offering
me a scholarship.
Like what talk talk us throughthat process a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 (08:36):
So I actually have a story from my freshman year at
high school state.
Um, it was on the 18th hole.
I think I was aware that we wewere coming back that day and we
were pretty close to potentiallywinning a state title, but I was
like still like very much liketrying to stay in in my
individual game.

(08:57):
So we got to hole 18.
And keep in mind, like I'veplayed in a lot of big junior
I've played in a lot of bigjunior golf tournaments before
this, but I've never really seenlike crowds before.
Like it's very unusual to see acrowd at a junior golf
tournament.
Um, so I'm walking up thefairway on 18, and I look over
and see the biggest crowd I'veever seen on a golf course.

(09:19):
Like we're talking like hundredsof people, and it made me really
nervous.
And I remember I walked up to myball and it it was already like
a weird lie, like, ball was waybelow my feet, and then I'm
nervous and ended up likechunking it.
It long story short, I madedouble on the hole.
And I just was really stressedand had never really been in

(09:41):
that situation, and my teamended up losing by one.
Um, so I was super upset.
Like my team just had a chanceto win state championship.
We lost by one.
I just doubled the last hole.
Of course, I'm blaming myself.
And it was really hard.
Um, but it was a really goodlearning experience for me, to
be honest.
If I wouldn't have had thatmoment, I think if I wouldn't

(10:04):
have had that moment, I'm notsure if I would have been able
to handle the pressure ofwinning an individual state
championship a couple yearslater.
I think that was like a bigturning point for me to figure
out how to handle my nerves andhow to deal with crowds.
So kind of going into dealingwith playing in front of college
coaches, um, after that moment,I kind of a strategy that came

(10:25):
up, I came up with was not tolook at people that were
watching me.
So I would get really into thezone where I would not watch
anyone on the sidewalk or on thecourt path watching me.
I wouldn't look up at crowds.
Um, like for example, even iflike my family was watching, I
wasn't like looking over atthem.
One, I think this is really goodadvice for um junior and amateur

(10:45):
players because sometimes peoplethat watch you have bad
reactions and they don't mean todo it, but it happens and like
you don't want to see thosereactions.
It's also like good to not bescanning a giant crowd that's
watching you.
Like I just don't think in golf,like you can avoid it until you
get to the professional stage.
And so I just would never lookat who was watching me, and that

(11:06):
helps me a lot.
So when it came to collegerecruiting and there would be
coaches watching me, I justwouldn't look over at them.
Um, it made me stay in my ownzone a little better and I was
able to just focus on my gamebecause at the end of the day,
like I know it's really hard,but you just have to kind of
believe like everything's gonnawork out.
Let's just play my own game,let's work on my own process.

(11:28):
Um, it's a really long processgoing through college
recruiting.
So, like, you have time.
Like, I think people freak outand they think like I have to
play well this one particularsummer, I have to play well in
this one particular event whenlike it's really not the case.
College coaches look at a lotmore than just results.
They look at work ethic, theylook at grades, they look at

(11:49):
your personality.
Um, so yeah, but my advice toyou is if college coaches are
watching, don't look over atthem because it's probably just
gonna add pressure.
Sure.
And you can always go up to themafter the round and say, like,
thank you for watching.
You can always text them afterthe round, but like don't let
them into your bubble like whenyou're on the course.

SPEAKER_00 (12:07):
Yeah, I love that.
So we we had you on the podcastbefore, and you know, at that
point it was like, hey, you'rethis golfer who won a state
championship and you're doingall these individual things, and
you're going to play golf atPurdue, you want to come be on
the podcast.
And then at some point while youwere, you know, in in your
college career, you actuallyreached out to me and started,

(12:30):
we started working togetherindividually.
Tell me just a a little bitabout, because I know that you
know, in the in the past, you'vebeen intentional about the
mental side of your game.
What made you maybe reach outand say, hey, I need a little
bit of help with this?

SPEAKER_01 (12:45):
Yeah, so I've been like very into the mental side
of golf.
I think all throughout highschool.
Um, I started working with aone-on-one mental coach.
I want to say it was going intomy sophomore year of high
school.
Um, the summer going into mysophomore year was like probably
the worst summer I've had today,golf-wise.

SPEAKER_00 (13:04):
And would you say that was because of some of the
failure that you experienced asa freshman?
Or was it other things?

SPEAKER_01 (13:11):
I think it was like the college recruiting started
getting to me.

SPEAKER_00 (13:14):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (13:15):
And I didn't have like a mental plan in place.
And yeah, no, it's it's actuallyreally funny.
Earlier, we talked about how Iset the um IHSA like low round
record of 62.
Well, the funny thing is, eightdays before I broke that record,
I shot like the highest score inmy summer at an AJGA qualifier.

(13:37):
And it was like rock bottom,like really bad.
And right around there is when Istarted working with a mental
coach, and I started going to atrainer full time.
Um, and I think somewhere in thesummer is when I started working
with my current swing coach aswell.
So I made a lot of changes,knowing that like needed to gain
distance off the tee, I neededto get mentally sharper on the

(14:00):
course, I needed to sharpen upmy swing a little bit too.
There was like a lot of changesthat I was making, they all
ended up being great changes.
Um, but I've been involved withthe mental side of the game for
a long time.
And it was the summer going intomy fifth year at Purdue, where I
kind of realized, hey, I'mreally into the mental side of
the game, but it's so broad.

(14:23):
Like, there's so many ideasabout like the mental side of
golf or the mental side ofsports, like it can be really
overwhelming.
Sure.
And like there was like a lot oftimes too where like I was
trying to help my teammates withthe mental side.
I'm also trying to help myself,and it just was like too many
ideas going on.
I really felt like I neededbetter tools um to get me

(14:44):
through the round, and I feltlike I needed better like mental
tools on the course.
So that's when I started workingwith you.
Um, and I did some work with youin high school when you helped
out Westfield Girls Golf, andeven back in high school, like I
remember we had these journalswhere we would journal out like
about our golf rounds, and um,we worked on course management a
lot, and I just really wanted togo back to the basics of like I

(15:07):
need tools on the course.
Like it's one thing to just talkthrough your round with someone
and like kind of find areas thatare lacking, but to like have
tools to get you through theround was something I really
realized I needed.
So I started working with youbecause I was looking for some
like tangible tools to use onthe course.
So the three tools that havehelped me the most with you have

(15:29):
been finding a breathing patternthat works for me, um, using
FMR, and then also having ago-to statement to repeat to
myself on the course.

SPEAKER_00 (15:38):
Yeah, for sure.
So the the diaphragmaticbreathing, you know, I know I
know when we started workingtogether, you were like, I I am
doing my breathing on thecourse.
And it was like, well, can youshow me like what you're doing
on the course?
And you went, and it's like,well, that's not diaphragmatic
breathing, JB.
Like you just took a deepbreath.

(15:58):
Like, tell me what was what wasthe difference that you felt
physically as you started thesebreathing cycles that were
taking 16 seconds instead oflike two.

SPEAKER_01 (16:09):
Yeah, I feel like I get very tense on the course and
I breathe really fast.
Like it's funny, like um I weara whoop and like I'll look at it
after the round, and like myheart rate gets really high.
And I never really had a tool tolike stop that.
Like, people would always tellme take deep breaths, but it's
almost like I was breathingfaster because I'd be like in

(16:29):
for a second, out for a second,which is still really fast.
Once we started talking throughthe breathing techniques, I was
able to lower my heart rate alot more and be a lot calmer and
like present on the course.
Um, kind of what I found for meis like if I have a shot coming
up that I know is like a littleuncomfortable for me, or I find
that my heart is racing, or likeI know that I'm in contention,

(16:50):
I'm very aware of when my heartrate gets high now.
And like it might be every holeI'm doing my breathing
technique, it might be everynine holes, it might be every
shot.
Like it kind of depends on theday, and like I'm aware of that,
but it's very helpful now that Iknow to do it.
Um, and it just makes me calmdown a lot.

SPEAKER_00 (17:08):
I I love that you brought up that example of using
it when you need it because thatwas something I noticed about
watching game seven of the WorldSeries was like the I mean,
these guys are literally takingthese big, giant, deep breaths
and holding on to and beforebetween like every single pitch.

(17:29):
And and it's it's true.
Like that there are momentswhere we have we have this
physical reaction and we needsome sort of physical tool to
take that control.
Um, and the the second one thatyou mentioned as you were
talking there was you had atendency to tense up.
And so, you know, whether that'syou're trying to shoot a free
throw and you want to have thatsame muscle memory, or you're

(17:51):
trying to hit a driver or sink apunt, like all of a sudden, if
your muscles start doing this,that's not helpful.
So talk us through that that FMRor the the forced muscular
relaxation of, you know, maybemaybe when did you use it and
how was it helpful on thecourse?

SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
Yeah, so I've heard about techniques like this
before, but I never knew likethe science behind it.
I never really knew why itworked.
I've had like coaches in thepast tell me to like make a fist
and squeeze really hard and thenlike let it go.
But I think I didn't fully buyin until like you talked me
through it and like told me whyit works.
For me, if I know like I'm incontention in a tournament or

(18:32):
I'm in a playoff, I start to getreally tense.
And one thing that can like leadto that on the golf course is
like if I'm really tense in aplayoff, um, I might hit a putt
like way farther by the holethan I'm into, or like I might
being really tense in the coursemight cause me to like not turn
enough in my backswing.
And like those are like not goodsituations that we want when

(18:55):
you're trying to like competeunder pressure.
So, like kind of being aware ofthe tension and like letting it
go has helped me a lot.
Another thing that I like to dois I kind of feel like my
fingers like wiggling a littlebit, like I that kind of goes
into the FMR, I guess.
But just like being aware oflike where I feel the tension is
helpful.
Um, I really like combining theFMR with the breathing

(19:17):
techniques, um, because it theyboth just kind of make me loosen
up and just calm my whole bodydown, which is like so important
when you're under pressure, andwhether it's in college or at
the professional level.
Um yeah, I wish I had started atSignor because I just have seen
how helpful it is.

SPEAKER_00 (19:35):
And I I love that.
And I think there's really twotakeaways for for coaches
listening to this.
It's like we talk about theGoldilocks principle.
If you don't have enoughscience, it just sounds fluffy
and fake.
Yeah, take a deep breath.
What do you think?
I'm three years old and I likeI'm throwing a temper tantrum
like shut up.
Give me something that's gonnahelp.
But on the other side, if wetake it too far and we turn it

(19:58):
into a neuropsychology textbook,all of a sudden you've got too
much stuff going on inside ofyour head.
So it's like, what's what'senough science to help you
realize this is real, not fluff?
But not so much that we cloudyour mind.
And I think that's alsoimportant on the athlete side

(20:19):
because there have been times inone-on-one sessions where we've
come up with a plan, we've comeup with a tool, and I'm like,
all right, you feel good aboutthis, and you've got this look
like, I don't know about thisone.
And it's and so that that's akind of a red flag that it's
important as athletes that wedon't just say, all right, yeah,

(20:40):
I got it, let's move on.
If you don't got it and you youdon't believe it and you haven't
bought into it, ask questions,like, why are we doing this?
This doesn't, I don't I don'tknow if I'm I don't know if I'm
all in on this because once thatswitch is flipped and you're
like, oh, this this actuallyworks, then you start seeing
results.

(21:00):
And then once you see thoseresults on the course, it's
like, oh man, this actuallyworks really well.
Let's let's keep doing this.

SPEAKER_01 (21:07):
I really liked what you just said of like it's nice
to get an explanation and ask alot of questions.
Like, I think it's important tolike own your own game and not
just blindly follow somethingthat someone's telling you.
I think like we grow up thinkingwe just have to listen to
everything that a coach istelling us and like obviously be
respectful, but it's not bad tobe like, hey, like coach, what

(21:28):
is what is this tool doing forme?
Or um, like there's other waysto phrase it, but I think asking
questions can help youunderstand it better and can
help you buy into it more.
And whether it's a swing coach,a mental coach, um or like your
high school or college coach, Ithink it really just helps you
understand more.

(21:48):
Because I have heard of like FMRbefore, or I had heard to take
deep breaths before, but it tooklike you explaining it to me for
me to really buy in and think,okay, this makes sense now.
I'm getting a little bit of thescience.
I'm hearing who this has helped.
You're telling me about peoplein the NFL, people in the MLB,
people on the LPGA that havedone this, and that's what

(22:10):
really made me buy in.
Sure.
Um, so I think that was a hugepart of it too.
Asking you questions, okay, whendo I do this on the course?
Like, how is this gonna help me?
Um more thing I wanted tomention was I think coaches can
really benefit from this aswell.
Um, and this kind of goes alittle bit into body language,
but coaches can look out fortheir players, they can see if

(22:32):
they if they're slouching, theycan see if they're breathing
really fast, they can see ifthey're walking really fast.
Um, those were a few things thatlike my college coaches have
seen for me, um, or my highschool coaches, or even your
caddy.
If you're breathing really heavyand they notice, they can kind
of remind you, like, hey, likelet's take a few deep breaths.
Or if your shoulders areslouching, hey, let's have good

(22:53):
body language.
If you look if you're tense,they can tell you just a
reminder.
I know FMR helps you.
Like, I think that's reallyimportant too.
Sometimes when you're likereally in the zone, you are
sometimes it's hard to realizeif you're really tense or if
you're really stressed.
And like, I've got, I feel likethat's something you learn to
get better at.

(23:13):
But maybe in early high schoolor early college, you're not
quite there yet.
It's really nice to havereminders from coaches, and
that's something reallyimportant.

SPEAKER_00 (23:22):
I love that.
And I don't let me forget tocome back to that caddy
conversation because you'reactually the person that I use
as my example when I'm talkingto athletes.
And I'm like, she literally hasthis card and she can hand it to
the caddy and be like, when thishappens, remind me of this.
If if you see me starting to dothis, remember that I we want to

(23:43):
use this tool.
So I I definitely want to comeback to that, but I don't want
to skip that third tool that youwere talking about, the go-to
statement.
Yeah, and this this is anotherone where I work with so many
athletes who hear positiveself-talk, and it's like, ah,
this is unicorns and rainbows,and this is fake and flowery.

(24:06):
And what do you mean I'msupposed to be?
How am I gonna be positive?
I just got a double bogey andI'm trying to get on this
professional tour.
What do you mean, be positive?
Tell talk us through maybe notspecifically what your go-to
statement is, but the benefitthat you've gained from having
that and how you use it.

SPEAKER_01 (24:26):
Yeah.
I will say, like, coming fromlike a mental coming from um
knowing a lot about like themental side of sports already, I
was a little like, okay, likeI'm gonna tell myself a
statement.
Like because like I feel likethe world of positivity is like
a really, really broad in sportswhere it's like people just tell

(24:48):
you, oh, just think I got thisor like I can do it.
And it's like, I mean, all forpositivity on the course, but it
only sometimes like can be hardto believe when it almost sounds
like gimmicky, if it makessense.
So, like, for example, when wemade my go-to statement, we
started off by me telling it tomyself, I think it was was it 50

(25:08):
times a day?
And it seems kind of weird atfirst.
You're like, okay, I have totell myself my go-to statement
50 times a day.
Like, when am I gonna do this?
So maybe it's like 10 times,five different times throughout
the day.
And it seemed a little weird,but like the more and more I
kept doing it, I like wasstarting to believe it because I
was hearing it so many times.

(25:29):
And I remember you introduced itto me before um a specific
tournament I had in the summerlast year.
And I was really new to it.
So I was kind of like, when am Igonna say this?
It took a little time to figureout, but basically, I say it in
my pre-shot routine as I'mwalking into the ball.
So it's like one of my lastthoughts that I'm thinking,
other than like starting,finishing line for like a golfer

(25:52):
or another sport, like maybe ifyou're on the free throw line,
you think it before you getready to shoot.
So it's like one of your lastthoughts.
And by this time, I had alreadysaid it, you know, 50 times a
day for multiple days leading upto it.
So I feel like I had alreadybought into it.
My advice would be it mightsound silly if you've never
tried it before, but it reallydoes work because to this day,

(26:14):
so it's been probably a year anda half since we implemented
that.
I still say it before everysingle shot.
Like if I'm just playing forfun, like it's literally
ingrained into my brain that Istill say it before every single
shot.
And I don't even have to thinkabout it anymore.
It's like automatic.
Yeah, but it's just like a goodreminder on every shot.
Um, I feel like it it for me, itclears out the negative

(26:36):
thoughts.
Like maybe you're thinking, oh,this some uh couple of examples
of negative thoughts on the golfcourse.
Maybe you're like, oh, there's abunker over there, or I don't
want to miss it right.
This is a good way for me tokind of push those on my brain
and only focus on like myintention.
Um, so yeah, my advice would bebuy into it and start it at
home.

(26:56):
Start doing it every single daybefore you get to your sport.

SPEAKER_00 (27:00):
Yeah, I'm I'm so glad.
I'm so glad to hear that.
If you're listening to this andit's the first time you've ever
heard this go-to statementthing, go back and listen to
episode number 119.
It's about my book, Focus Cycle,um, where we kind of go through
that a little bit more in depth,the science behind why it works.
We can't just say I'm the bestplayer in the world, but when we

(27:21):
remind ourselves of the timewe've put in, the work we've put
in, why we've earned the rightto be confident on the course
and then who we're gonna be inthat moment, it becomes pretty
powerful, not only as a reminderof the things that we do want to
be focusing on, but also helpsclear your mind of the things
you don't want to be focusingon.

(27:41):
Which, you know, I I want tocome back now to this caddy
idea.
And I think, you know,obviously, obviously this
applies in different ways.
In high school golf, you know,in the state of Indiana, you can
have two coaches that can talkthat are kind of running back
and forth between all fiveplayers.
Yeah, you know, when I used thison the football field, I wanted

(28:04):
to know my position group'sgo-to statement because if they
screwed up on the field as theywere walking off, I want to be
able to grab them and remindthem of that and get that going
in their head.
Um, in your situation as aprofessional golfer now, and you
do have a caddy, which you know,sometimes you get to pick, other
times it's sort of just assignedto you.

(28:26):
Um, so you know, you need to beable to what we call it kind of
like a game plan meeting aheadof time, you know, like like
coaches in football would say,here's our plan in the red zone,
we're gonna do this on thirddown, we're gonna do that.
You know, you had to kind ofcome up with what is my plan of
attack going to be on thecourse.

(28:47):
Talk to us a little bit aboutmaybe coming up with that plan,
but then also how do youcommunicate that to somebody
else?
Whether that's a high schoolerlistening to this that wants to,
you know, maybe inform theircoach or you know, a a different
sport or a professional golferwith a caddy.

SPEAKER_01 (29:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (29:05):
How do you do that?

SPEAKER_01 (29:06):
I think every single person that has a caddy should
have a game plan meeting withtheir caddy before the round,
preferably before every round.
And I think you might belistening to this, you might be
thinking, oh, my dad has caddiedfor me so many times, or my swim
coach has caddied for me so manytimes.
I don't need a game planmeeting.
No, I think it's more importantto have a game plan meeting with

(29:27):
somebody that has cadied for youa bunch.
Yeah.
Because they'll probably fallinto habits that I don't even
they might fall into bad habits.
Maybe things bother you on thecourse and you're scared to
bring this up to them.
I think it's even more importantto have game plan meetings with
people that you know.
But for a general consensus, Ithink you should have game plan

(29:48):
meetings with everyone thatcaddies for you.
And I just started doing it onceI turned professional.
I had I didn't have a lot ofcaddies in amateur golf.
I definitely had some go.
And some bad, but now that likeI'm a professional, it's on a
regular basis that I'm gonnahave a caddy.
Most of my events I will haveone, and it has been kind of a

(30:09):
challenge for me in the past tohave random caddies.
I've like known that like Ireally am not a fan of random
caddies because I think quitefrankly, I didn't have a plan
going into it and I knew thingsthat bothered me on the course
and I was scared to speak up.
But at the end of the game, atthe end of the day, it's it's
your game, it's your tournament.
The caddy is there to help you.

(30:29):
So it's important to like get onthe same, get on the same page
with your caddy.
Um, so like what this has lookedlike for me.
Um at the first and second stageof Q school, I have my swing
coach as my caddy, and he'scadied for me a ton of times.
Um, so like he knows my game, helike knows a lot about how like
I want him to talk to me, or heknows like how I pick my shots

(30:52):
and everything.
But it was important for me tohave a game plan meeting with
him before both stages becauseyou know, sometimes things
change round to round ortournament to tournament.
And even though I'm verycomfortable with him as a caddy,
I wanted to just reiterate likethings that I like.
I wanted us to be on the samepage.
More importantly, like I wantedus to have like a set like plan

(31:16):
of how to attack each shot.
So, what I do is like I pick mynumber, I calculate my number on
every shot, he calculates thenumber, and then we regroup and
we find a final number together.
And I like this because I stillhave ownership in the number
versus like blindly trusting anumber that someone else is

(31:36):
giving me.
And like I will do this withevery caddy I ever had.
Even if they're the best caddyin the world, it makes me feel
better if I am picking a numberand agreeing with someone.
It gives you a lot moreownership over your game, and I
think that's really big for me.
Maybe this isn't what everyonewants to do, but like it helps
me feel better.
So, like, we talked throughthat.

(31:57):
We talked through um my pre-shotroutine when I was gonna talk to
him.
And then once we have a keywordtoo.
So this was kind of a huge dealfor us at Key School, where we'd
pick our number, I'd grab myclub, I'd start walking in, I'd
say, all right, got it.
And then like he'd kind of giveme a nod or a thumbs up, and
that's like our finalconversation for the shot.

(32:19):
He's not gonna interrupt likewhile I'm walking in.
Um, that's like our agreement oflike perfect.
We have the number, our gameplan is perfect.
I take my practice swing and Igo.
Yeah.
Um, so I think that's reallyimportant too to have a keyword
because I watch a lot of girlslike this, it could be in any
sport, but like specifically ingolf.
I've watched a lot of girls thatI play with.
Um, they're in their pre-shotroutine and their cat is still

(32:41):
talking to them.
Yeah.
And I don't feel like you can befully focused if that's
happening.
I mean, again, like that couldtotally be a part of your
routine and that's fine.
But I think it's important tolike basically have boundaries
of like, okay, this is how we'regonna do it, and this is when
we're gonna decide.
Um again, like this could betotally different for every

(33:02):
person, but having a game planmeeting and talking through like
how you want things to go is soimportant.
Yeah.
And like for me, we talked aboutwe really decided to do the game
plan meeting because we know ina couple weeks and a couple
months, I'm gonna have randomcaddies that don't know me very
well.
So I practiced doing these gameplan meetings with my swing
coach that knows me really well.

(33:23):
So then when I get to a randomcaddy, it'll be a lot easier.
So, like for me, like I'mtalking through everything that
I can think of that happens onthe course.
I'm talking through what do Iwant to discuss with my caddy on
putts?
What do I want to discuss withmy caddies on chips, on approach
shots, on drives, because theycan all be different.
And all golfers know that likewe all have our routines, we all

(33:44):
have our own little systems.
And sometimes like a littlecomment here and there can like
make a big difference, good orbad.
So I think it's really importantto communicate that with your
caddy.

SPEAKER_00 (33:56):
Uh and I I love the application to literally every
sport.
And even within a fast-pacedgame like basketball, soccer,
even football, like in atwo-minute situation, yeah,
there's a break between plays,but you know, two-minute drill
where you're just you're going,having some way to be able to

(34:16):
communicate what needs to becommunicated.
Sometimes it's as simple as justyou know, a simple gesture to
you know your your player, toyour coach that says, Oh yeah,
we were gonna, we were gonna dothis in this situation, or in a
game like golf where you have alonger period of time, which
sometimes is good because youcan prepare a little more.

(34:38):
Sometimes it's also challengingbecause you get a whole lot more
time that you have to manageyour thoughts and you have
things running around in yourhead.
Yeah.
Um, but just I I love that ideaof having a plan going in.
So the I I see that you broughtthe confidence book with you,
and I love the the post-its thatI see in there.

(34:59):
Um, you know, there was therewas one point, I don't remember
if it was before Q school orafter, where you said, I feel
like you wrote this book for me,which is which is great.
Um, you know, obviously I willwhether it's a a coach who's
wants to pick this up and figureout how do I build the
confidence of an entire program,or it's an individual, how do I

(35:21):
build my own confidence?
Um, you know, obviously there'sa there's a lot that goes into
it.
And again, you're it's not likethe mental side of sports was
new for you.
You've been doing this andyou've been intentional about
this for a long time.
And I mean, before you read thisbook, we'd been working together
for over a year and there werestill things that you were

(35:42):
pulling out of it.
Talk to me just a little bitabout um, I I think maybe one of
the biggest challenges is whenyou don't have that confidence
yet because you'd never playedprofessional golf.
You you'd never prepared on yourown.
You always had a coach who wassort of guiding you, who was
coming up with your practices,coming up with your, you know,

(36:05):
what what was the plan?
And now it's like, well, what amI doing?
How much do I do?
How much time do I spend?
Am I gonna be ready?
How do I know if I'm ready?
And so kind of wrestling withthose things.
Talk us through what did youneed from a confidence
standpoint, and how did you usesome of these tools to to be
intentional about building thatthat confidence on the course?

SPEAKER_01 (36:29):
Yeah, so for me, I feel like I never really had a
great grasp of what confidencereally was, if I'm being honest.
And people have like kind oflike brought it up to me in the
past, and I didn't really thinkit was a big deal.
But like, for example, Iremember my swing coach saying
to me, like, hey, like, so Iremember telling my swing coach,

(36:52):
like, hey, I'm leaving for atournament tomorrow, like, I'm
gonna go out on the course andhit some tea shops that make me
uncomfortable.
And I remember him saying to me,like, you've hit hundreds and
thousands, you've hit thousandsof drives in your life.
Like, why do you need to go outthere and like prove to yourself
that you can hit those shots?
And I was really confusedbecause I was like, What do you
mean?
I'm going out and practicingthese.

(37:13):
What's wrong with that?
And he was kind of being devil'sadvocate advocate.
And he was like, You've hitthose shots before.
Why do you need to prove toyourself that you can hit them?
And I think it was that falsesense of confidence to me where
I felt like if I went out andhit those shots really well in
practice, that I was gonna feelmore confident because I was
watching myself do it.
And it's still hard for me tounderstand because it sounds

(37:37):
like a like a good practice, Ithink, to a lot of people.
But his whole idea was thatconfidence comes from the
thousands of reps that you'veput in.
It comes from like all thepractice and all the training
you've done.
It doesn't come from one day ofyou hitting three good drives in
the fairway.
Yeah.
I think that was his point, isthat like I've put in the hours,

(37:57):
I've put in the work.
Obviously, you have to put inthe work first to get the
confidence.
That was a big game changer forme reading this book was I
started to get pretty nervousbefore the first stage of
Q-School because it was my firsttournament as a professional.
And I remember there was like aweek before I left where like I
had a few bad practices where Ijust was hitting bad shots, I

(38:19):
was freaking out.
And I went back to the book andI'm literally just reading the
definition of confidence.
And I'm like, wait a minute,like I can still feel confident
if I hit a bad shot.
Like I can still feel confidentif I have a bad round.
Like I have to think of like allof the work I've put in instead
of the negative.

SPEAKER_00 (38:37):
Yeah, instead of basing it off of that
performance where when I playwell, I feel confident, which
feels natural and feels normaland even feels right.
But in reality, if it's tied toour performance and it's tied to
an outcome, then when we don'tperform so well, now all of a
sudden we don't feel confident.

(38:57):
Yeah.
And so, you know, realizing,hey, this doesn't have to be
tied in to the result that Ihave on any one specific day.
Like if I'm not doing somethingwell, there there's been there
have been countless times inyour golf career where maybe
your driver wasn't doing whatyou wanted it to do, or you

(39:19):
weren't chipping the right way,or the Bermuda grass was giving
you some fits, or you weren'tconfident, you know, you were
leaving putts on the short side,whatever it was, when something
wasn't good enough in your game,you went back and you fixed it.
And so just because you knowsomething's not going great

(39:41):
right now, that doesn't meanfailure.
That means that's a little bitof feedback of what do we need
to do next.
What what were maybe some of thespecific tools in the book that
that stood out to you the mostor were maybe the most helpful
in really kind of building thatwall, like we talk about in the
book, that that you can stand onthat's gonna hold up to that

(40:04):
pressure?

SPEAKER_01 (40:05):
Well, I wanted to find the page in my book that I
read pre-round.
Um, so there's a couple of pagesI like to read the night before
or the day of a round.
And this this page is myfavorite because it's like these
are things that can like helpyou to feel confident.
For whereas in the past, I usedto think it was, oh, a good shot
makes me feel confident.

(40:25):
I never, it's like I'm I'veknown that I work hard, but it
was never really a reminder oflike, oh, I'm confident because
of that.
So, like, for example, on thispage, this lists a few of the
things that should make you feelconfident.
It's the wins, which we talkedabout that people that's usually
the only category I think peopletalk about with with confidence.

(40:46):
Survival, that's a huge one forme, where like maybe you don't
have the best round, but youreally fight through it.
And you like it might not havebeen a pretty day, it might have
been a struggle, but like youfought through it and you
finished.
And like sometimes that's moreimportant than playing your
best.
And kind of going back to therecruiting thing as well, so
many college coaches have toldme this.

(41:07):
It's not just about the greatrounds, it's about the rounds
that you've like salvaged, aboutthe rounds where they can really
see the fight in you.
Yeah, and that should give you alot of confidence as well.
Um, a struggle is also anotherthing it talks about in the book
where like I know it soundsweird to be like, oh, I'm
confident because of mystruggles, but like thinking
about your struggles in adifferent way of like you

(41:28):
overcame those.
Like for me, turningprofessional, I'm like thinking
back, like there was a lot oflike highs and lows of college
golf, but reminding myself,like, hey, I got through those
struggles, and that's that givesme a lot of confidence.
Um, the last two things werefeedback and patterns are both
big.
And I think the feedback one'sreally important.

(41:48):
Like, you can get feedback onyour own, you can get feedback
from coaches, but just remindingyourself of like your growth
essentially and like how muchbetter you are than like you
used to be, I think that thatgives a lot of confidence
because it all kind of comesback to like the work that
you've put in.
Um, the last part I really likedfrom from that page was the

(42:09):
patterns.
And I think when I think of thepatterns, I think of like the
everyday practice that I wasputting in leading up to Q
school, reminding myself, likeI'm putting in this many hours
of putting every day, I'mputting this many hours of short
game every day.
And so by the time I got to Qschool, I was like reminding
myself of like if I put in thismany hours, like I'm confident
because of all that hard work.

SPEAKER_00 (42:30):
Yeah.
And that was something too thatwe started documenting in the
summertime because I remember wewere we were having a
conversation as we were kind ofcoming up with your plan to
prepare for Q school.
And it was like, Well, is do youfeel like if you do this, this,
and this every day that you'regonna be able to go out and

(42:50):
perform at your best?
And you were like, Oh, yeah,absolutely.
And so it was like on the frontend coming up with the plan, you
believed in the plan, but Ithink there, I think it's fair
to say there was power indocumenting that so that a
month, two months, three monthsdown the road, you could look
back at this just laundry listof stuff that you had done where

(43:14):
it was like, I made a plan,yeah, I put it to work, I am
stinking ready for this.
Is that fair to say?

SPEAKER_01 (43:21):
I yeah.
So I will share like kind of astruggle that I've had since
I've been pro.
Is I honestly I think I'vestruggled with this like my
whole golf career.
It's like I know that I workhard, but sometimes it's like
where working hard, there's nolike there's no definition.
Like anyone can say I work hard.

(43:42):
There's no way to like measure,oh well, what is being a hard
worker?
So I think for me, like I'vebeen in the past, I've been
like, well, I know I'm workinghard, but am I working hard
enough?
And I never felt like I was,even though I was at the highest
level in high school and Iplayed in college and now I'm
professional.
I mean, there was no way toreally measure, am I working
hard enough?

(44:02):
And once I started documentingthe hours, that was when I was
like finally convincing myself,hey, you put in this many hours
a day and this many hours a weekof putting, like you are working
hard.
Yeah, so that's why I wouldreally recommend like
documenting the hours becauseit's evidence that you're
putting in the time.
Yeah.
And like only like you are gonnaknow if you're putting in the

(44:24):
effort.
But I think the time is a good,um, is a good step in the right
direction of measuring if you'reworking hard or not.

SPEAKER_00 (44:32):
Yeah.
We used to talk about that withthe football players.
It's like, let's, you know,let's say you're gonna commit to
15 minutes of film every singleday.
If you show up and on Fridaynight, you're not able to
immediately recognize, you know,where these guys were lined up
or what the formation or thecoverage show was, like, that's

(44:53):
a signal.
Okay, 15 minutes a day isnowhere near enough.
Now I know if I want to competeat this level, I need let's
let's do an hour a night, let'sdo a half hour, whatever that
looks like.
Coming up with that plan,putting it to work, knowing how
much time you put in, and thenlooking at the feedback.
Yeah, I'm not gonna call it theresult, looking at the feedback

(45:15):
of did I feel confident in thatmoment?
Was I prepared enough in thatmoment?
Informs you either yes, whatwhat we're doing is adequate, or
maybe I need to turn it up alittle bit.
Talk to us maybe uh were therewere there any other tools from
the the book that you found thatyou found helpful when it came

(45:36):
to performance at Q school?

SPEAKER_01 (45:39):
Yeah, so one big thing that comes um to mind is
like learning that like there'sdifferent types of confidence.
Like I never knew that.
I thought it was just honestly,I feel like a lot of people say
this statement too of like fakeit till you make it.
And I think that statement'sreally controversial because
like I think I did that for alot of my golf career, and I

(46:01):
don't think it's very helpfulwhen you get under pressure, and
I think that's when you start todoubt yourself.
So learning like the threedifferent type types of
confidence earned confidence,chosen confidence, and trained
confidence.
And the trained confidence waswas a really big one.
I think the earned confidencewas the one that I try to focus

(46:22):
on the most because that's likethrough the the hard work,
that's through the preparation.
And I don't really feel like Idid that in the past, and it's
made me feel way, way moreconfident because I just try to
focus my energy on on your Ijust try to focus my energy on
like the hard work.
Yeah.
And that gives me confidencefrom that.
The chosen confidence, I think,is really big because that's

(46:44):
more of like your body languageand your self-talk.
And um, this is kind of, Ithink, when coaches can come in
and they can help their playersa lot too, of like helping
remind them about the bodylanguage.
Because sometimes we have badbody language and we don't even
mean to.
I think that's a really biglearning opportunity.
Um, especially like, I mean, inany sport, like imagine I know

(47:05):
like at the beginning of thebook, it was talking about the
Westfield football team and howlike if they threw an
interception or had like a badplay, they would hype themselves
up and not slouch theirshoulders and they would like
almost get excited, which soundscrazy.
But if they're not slumpingtheir shoulders, then they're
gonna be ready to go out on thenext play and like get the ball

(47:26):
back.
And like I think that's reallyimportant in golf.
Like, you hit a bad shot, like,no, keep good posture, walk with
your head up, don't let yourhead drop.
Like, because I think the badbody language, it can lead to
like another bad shot, anothertwo bad shots, and like that can
really like catapult an okayround to not a good round.
So I think the chosen confidencewas really big.

(47:46):
And I had never really thoughtthe bad body language was a
confidence thing, but I reallythink it is because think about
it.
If you if you had a bad drivelike in the hazard or something,
it's like you should have theearned confidence to know, like,
hey, it's okay.
Like, I know I can hit the nextdrive in the fairway.
This shouldn't affect my nextshot.
Um, the train confidence wetalked a lot about at the

(48:09):
beginning of the podcast aboutthe breathing, the FMR.
And that's another thing wherelike I never really thought to
myself, like, this isconfidence.
I more thought I was justcalming myself down.
But I think a lot of this, a lotof the mental game, it all kind
of comes back to confidence.
And that's like how important itis.
And I really saw how importantconfidence was when I got to the

(48:33):
first stage.
And I like for the first time ina long time, like really felt
ready because I read the wholebook front to back before.
I did the activities in it.
I before every round, even nowthat I've read the whole book, I
go back and skim the pages thatreally helped me out because
they're good reminders.
Um, so like I don't like say itlightly when I say like this

(48:54):
book really was a game changerfor me.
Because it a lot of people don'teven teach you what confidence
is, it's almost just expected.
And like I'm 23 years old, I'vealready played high school,
college golf, and now I'm aprofessional and just now
learning what confidence is.
It's cool to think kids in highschool can read this now and
learn about confidence at ayoung age.
Like that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 (49:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
And not only you played highschool and college golf, like
you played high-level, won astate championship, high school
golf, played division one,competed in national
championship, collegiate golf,and there's still things and
there's still aspects of yourgame that even after being
intentional with the mental sideof your game, since you were

(49:38):
what, a 14-year-old,15-year-old?
I mean, there's still there'sstill pieces that you can that
you can learn.
And I think I what I tried to doin that book was make like a
complete resource where I couldhand that to one of the mental
performance coaches that gothrough our MTP certification

(49:59):
and be like, look, every singleathlete that I've ever worked
with who struggled inconfidence, the answer is
somewhere in this book.
And you don't you don't maybeneed all of it all the time, but
as you're going through andyou're fine-tuning the mental
side of your game and you'resaying, All right, where am I

(50:19):
not as strong as I would like tobe?
And then what am I going to doto intentionally improve in that
area?
I think is powerful.
Were there were there anysections of the book that as you
read through, you were like, ohyeah, I I got this, and I'm
already doing this really well.
And I and maybe, you know, notsomething that you needed to
work on, but something that itwas like, oh yeah, a good

(50:41):
reminder.
I I do already have this thathelps me feel even more
confident.

SPEAKER_01 (50:47):
Yeah, um, I remember when I first started reading it,
you had me skip ahead to achapter at the end.
I'm trying to wasn't built thewall, was it?
Oh I think it was the trustbrick.

SPEAKER_00 (51:01):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (51:02):
Okay, so I remember I was at the I was at the
beginning of the book, but wehad a session and you told me to
flip to the back and read thechapter about the trust brick.
So like that was a um trust wassomething that I was struggling
with like a week or two before Qschool.
I was starting to get nervous.
I was starting to kind of have alittle bit of a freak out in
practice.

(51:22):
So I skipped ahead and read thetrust brick, which I think is
really cool because you can readlike any chapter out of order
depending on like what you needto work on.
So, for example, in this moment,like I really needed to trust my
practice and trust the work thatI was putting in.
So I skipped ahead and run thischapter.
Um, whereas like there were somechapter, there were a few
chapters.

SPEAKER_00 (51:44):
Cause by because by that point, as you flip back and
find the other one that you'retalking about, like by that
point, you had already come upwith a solid plan and you had
executed that plan, but therewas still this little voice in
the back of your mind that waslike, but is it good enough?
And it's like, yeah, it is.
Yeah.

(52:04):
And if it's not good enough,then we're gonna evaluate where
do we come up short, and we'regonna attack that with the the
same intensity that you'veattacked every other weakness in
your golf game, your entire golfcareer since you were four years
old, and we'll fix it.
So just trust this process thatyou that you've got going on
that that we've committed to,and and just allow yourself to

(52:27):
go play freely because you haddone the work.

SPEAKER_01 (52:30):
Yeah.
So that's actually exactly whatI was telling myself at the
first stage.
I told my caddy, I was like,hey, like if you see me
stressing out, can you justremind me of this statement?
And it was, I put in the work,so now I get to relax.
And I just kept telling myselfthat over and over again because
I was like, I was it was goingback to that chapter about

(52:50):
trust.
Yeah.
I was like trying to tellmyself, hey, you worked hard,
and because you worked hard, nowyou get to relax and you get to
just play.
And I think that was like such agame changer for me because I
know that I get tense on thecourse when I'm stressed, and
telling myself I can just relaxand have fun was really cool.
Um, because like at the end ofthe day, I think most people

(53:12):
play their best when they'rerelaxed.
Yeah.
And especially on the golfcourse.
Yeah.
Um so yeah, that was a huge thatwas like the probably the
biggest thing.
Like it was really cool becauseI I read the whole book and
there's a lot that I took awayfrom it.
But like I kind of like spun itinto my own statement of like,
hey, I worked hard, now I get torelax.

(53:33):
And that's what's cool about thebook is that every person's
probably gonna find differenttidbits in it that they like,
yeah, or that help them.

SPEAKER_00 (53:40):
That was uh when I was coaching Nick Ferrera, that
was something we tried to bereal intentional about was like,
we're gonna make seven on sevenso unbelievably difficult and
challenging for you that by thetime you get to the game, it's
like, oh, thank goodness I canrelax.
All I have to do is playfootball now.
Because, you know, and we wouldwe would squirt them, squirt the

(54:02):
football with a with a waterbottle so it was wet, we would
chuck giant tackling dummies athis head, we would give him a
15-second play clock instead ofa 40-second play clock so he
could never relax or getcomfortable.
We would yell or scream, wewould just grab one of his
receivers and not let him go outfor a route, like pretending you

(54:22):
know something tragic happened.
And it was like, if we can makethe preparation so uncomfortable
and so intense and so, you know,just like you said,
uncomfortable.
Then by the time the game rollsaround, it's like oh, thank
goodness.
All right, I I've prepared forthis, I'm ready, I'm good.

(54:44):
Let's just let's go play andlet's have fun.
And I'm glad to hear you usethat F word, that that fun,
because I think it gets left outunfortunately so much.
You know, even in I'm startingto see it as my daughter's
playing, you know, club sportsand my my son's, you know,
making an all-star team.

(55:05):
And it's like, let's not forgetthat at the end of the day, we
are playing a competitive sportthat is fun.
And when you're enjoying it,there's gonna be, there's gonna
be so such a much better levelof performance.
Talk to us, talk to us as wekind of wrap up here, just about

(55:26):
the that experience, you know,because I know leaving for Q
school, you were that that firststage, you were you were pretty
nervous and you were still youwere still doubting a little
bit, but you were like, but Ino, we get we got a plan.
Like, so there was a kind oflike almost like two voices in
your mind, like one pulling youon this side that's like, have I

(55:48):
really done enough?
And the other one pulling onthis side.
It's like, shut up, yes, we'reready.
Let's trust it.
And then you got there.
Talk to us maybe just about thatexperience out there, the way
you were able to play, like whatwhat impact did your
preparation, your plan, yourtrust, your being intentional

(56:09):
about your confidence, like whatwhat role did that play?
And you know, I know we don't wedon't focus a lot on outcomes
and we try not to use the wordsgood and bad, but like when it
comes to that that performanceof that stage, what did what did
that look like?

SPEAKER_01 (56:25):
Yeah, so I think I I wasn't quite done with the book
when I traveled to first stage.
And my main goal was I need tofinish the book before the first
round.
So it was like little by little,and I was there like four or
five days early.
I was like, all right, justgotta keep reading, I just gotta
keep reading.
And it was like, I just hadconvinced myself that if I read

(56:45):
every page, I'm gonna feelbetter about myself and I'm
gonna be more confident.
And whether or not you believethat, I think it it really
helped me because it kind ofjam-packed.
I'm trying to think of how toexplain this.
Um when I got to first stage, Iwas nervous, but I had just

(57:05):
finished reading the book.
So I had all of the freshreminders in my head of why I
deserve to be confident, all thework that I put in to be
confident, and all of this.
But there definitely still werelike some struggles when I first
got there.
I remember like I got there fouror five days early.
I had some struggles withputting when I first got there,
hitting, still hitting some likeweird shots here and there.

(57:26):
But it's kind of like I had tokeep reminding myself of like,
hey, I don't have to be readyuntil I tee off on the first
day.
Like I still have three days ofpractice, I still have two
practice rounds left.
Like I'm still working each dayto prepare.
Like, I still have preparationto do, like, I don't have to be
ready yet.
And that was a good reminder forme because I was pretty nervous

(57:47):
leading up to the first coupledays.
But then once I got to the firstround, I felt way more relaxed
because I read the whole book.
I had skimmed through it atnight, I had skimmed through it
in the morning.
I'm trying to remind myself whyI should be confident.
Then I kind of came up with thestatement of to tell myself of
like, hey, I worked hard so thatnow I can relax on the course.

(58:08):
And I just like what I'm tryingto reiterate is that like it
took a lot of preparation.
It wasn't like one day I justwoke up and felt more confident.
Like it took like multiple,multiple days of like building
this in and like weeks ofpreparation.
And there's definitely likestumbles in there, definitely
were shots that I wish I couldhave back on the course.

(58:30):
So definitely like nothing wasperfect, but I felt like my
mindset was so much betterbecause if I hit a shot, if I
missed the fairway, I wasconfident that I was gonna be
able to hit the next shot on thegreen.
And like if I hit a shot, if Ihit a drive offline, it was
like, okay, well, let's go findthe next one.
Like I was able to like move ona lot easier and a lot faster

(58:50):
than I usually would have beenable to.
And it's actually kind of funnybecause I had a moment um during
one of my practice rounds whereum I saw a couple people I knew,
and people just kept telling methey're like, I'm so nervous.
And that's when I kind ofrealized I was like, you know
what?
I don't think I'm as nervous asthem.
I'm finally like trusting thework that I put in.

(59:12):
I'm not really freaking outanymore.
And maybe the day before I was,but I hit a certain moment where
I was like, I'm not freaking outanymore.
Like, I really trust all thiswork that I put in because I
know that we made a good plan.
And I remember before we left,we kind of discussed uh we were
trying hard to not make itoutcome-based, which is hard
when it comes to like qualifyingschool because it is you either

(59:36):
make it or you don't.
Right.
And if you don't make it pastfirst age, you get nothing.

SPEAKER_00 (59:40):
And every single shot, you have to write down a
number after after every singlehole.
There's there's an outcome thatyou then also have to not focus
on.

SPEAKER_01 (59:49):
But and that's part that's really hard is like it is
a big deal.
But like I try to tell myselflike, this isn't life or death,
this is not the end of theworld.
If I try to take all the outcomeaway from It and just have fun
and trust myself, it'll workout.
And I mean, luckily it did workout, and I got to advance to the
second stage.
But I think there was basicallywhat I'm trying to say is it's

(01:00:12):
never perfect.
There's always gonna be, youknow, shots that you wish would
have gone a different way orputs that you missed.
Or but I think the importantthing for me was like I stayed
in it mentally and I trusted theprocess and I trusted the plan.
And like we discussed, like, nomatter what happens, we're gonna
have a meeting afterwards totalk about what went like what I

(01:00:32):
need to improve on, what wentwell.
Like, no matter if I playamazing or I don't play my best.
Right.
So it was like I knew that wascoming anyway.
So it wasn't like anything tohave feelings towards, it was
just stick to the plan.
And the plan was really builtaround like, how can I become as
confident as I can before I getto the first stage?

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:52):
I love that.
And so it's like by the by thetime, you know, whether it's
game day rolls around, round onerolls around, like whenever that
point hits where it's like thepreparation is now done, it's
you are you are always going toplay better if you are you can
look back and you can say, youknow what, we had a good plan,

(01:01:14):
we executed the plan, I'm gonnatrust the plan.
And it's easier said than donebecause it takes a lot of hard
work and it takes a lot ofintentionality.
But if you prepare the rightway, and then you can get to
that competition and know itdoesn't matter what happens, I'm
gonna go back, I'm gonna, we'regonna debrief with Ben, I'm

(01:01:35):
gonna talk through this withMax.
We're gonna figure out what wentwell, what didn't go well, how
do I keep improving?
Like that, it's just it's whenyou when you have the right
process in place, it's a loteasier to say, trust the
process.
Yeah, it's a lot easier to say,yeah, you know, I've I've had

(01:01:57):
these, I've had these momentswhere I didn't play at my best.
And here's what I was able to doto overcome that.
And I had these moments where Ithought it was terrible and this
part of my game was awful, andwe fixed it.
And we keep moving forward.
So as we as we kind of wrap up,one of the one of the things

(01:02:18):
that I always love to ask guestsis knowing what you know now, if
you could go back and talk tothat freshman JB, who just
played in front of that hugecrowd, didn't play maybe so
great in in that low moment foryou, what would you go back and
tell yourself knowing what youknow now?

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:41):
I think I would go back and tell freshman year me
that like every moment is a partof the process.
And whether you deem things asuccess or a failure, it's all a
part of your journey.
And it's all they're alllearning moments, no matter if
they're good or bad.
I know we don't like to use thewords good or bad and label it,

(01:03:02):
but like looking back on it now,like everything that happens is
a power is a part of thejourney.
Um and luckily, like now I'mable to look back on that
disappointing moment and knowthat I learned probably more a
lot more from that than I wouldhave learned from if I would
have played well.
Yeah.
And it really was a huge ummoment in my junior and amateur

(01:03:24):
golf career because it taught mehow to play in front of crowds.
It taught me so many differentthings.
So just know, like if you'refeeling down about a game or a
tournament, um, try to learn asmuch from that situation as you
can because that might have abigger impact on you than if you
succeeded.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:40):
I love that.
Well, Jocelyn, thank you so muchfor joining us today, talking
through just you know part ofpart of your journey, some of
the tools that you've used tofind success um along the way.
Really appreciate your time andand love hearing your story.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:55):
Thank you so much, Ben.
It was so fun to be on yourpodcast.