February 18, 2023 • 16 mins
Mia Pumo and Becca kick off a 4 part series on how to address resistance utilizing a 4 part framework. In this episode, they dive into the first level of resistance: when educators resist because they don't understand why the change is happening. Often, leaders are connected to why change is happening and it is assumed that teachers are connected to that why as well. Becca and Mia share concrete action steps to take that will empower you to address educators that are resisting change because they do not understand why this change is happening.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
Hello coaches
Becca Silver (00:01):
and leaders, I am so excited to have a series of
conversations with the amazingmeetup humo. To discuss
resistance to change, we aregoing to be having a four part
resistance series. I'm soexcited. So before we jump in to
(00:22):
the material, and teaching youhow we deal with resistance and
what it could look like, and whyit happens, first, I want me to
introduce herself and tell youwhat she is doing in education
today. Hi, Becca,
Unknown (00:39):
I am currently working with a direction and I'm a
program manager, which means Iget to oversee amazing projects
with educators where we coachschool leaders, we train
instructional coaches. And letme tell you, resistance is a
number one topic that we dealwith in our work. So this is
(01:02):
going to be spot on and directlyrelated to what I'm doing. And I
know what you're doing as well.
Becca Silver (01:08):
Yes, this is one of the main things that we
address when we are coachingfrom the top down. Right. And
you and I were talking aboutthis, you know, and it could
have been one episode. But wewanted to make it four episodes,
because it's such a big topic.
And it's wildly misunderstood,
Unknown (01:29):
right? Yes. Like, there's so many ways to deal
with it. And you can go so deepand understanding where the
resistance comes from, and thenhow to address that. So I agree.
I'm glad were spreading this outover more than one episode.
Becca Silver (01:44):
Yeah. And you know, one of the things I really
appreciate about you is not onlyare you heavily embedded in
working with school leaders andcoaches, is that you also have a
life coaching background likeme. And so we really are
experienced in working withpeople's mindsets and
motivations. And resistance tochange is not about who people
are. It really is aboutmotivation. Right?
Unknown (02:08):
Right. And it's about getting out of your comfort
zone. It's about feeling out ofbalance. Because we get so
comfortable, we get used to oursystems and structures that we
create for our life.
Becca Silver (02:18):
The thing about change, Peter block says this,
he says when change happens,expect or resistance, and I'm
gonna say that again, whenchange happens, expect
resistance. And that's been oneof the mottos and the flags I've
been flying lately aboutresistance, we tend to demonize
it like it's bad, that folks areresisting the change. And it's
(02:39):
like, actually, we've hiredcritical thinkers, and it's
fine. So we are going to beframing our four episodes on
Anthony Muhammad's levels ofresistance. He speaks about them
in transforming school cultures,and one of his earlier books,
and then he also really expandson them in his later book time
(03:03):
for change. And so I actuallywant to read to you about the
first level of resistance. Thisis where leaders must
effectively communicate therationale, the why of the work,
people tend to resist change topractice and lack motivation to
improve when leaders have notskillfully communicated the
(03:24):
rationale or case forimprovement. To embrace a
vision, people have to clearlyunderstand the vision and feel
personally compelled tocontribute to
Unknown (03:35):
the vision that is so true, because facilitating
change is a skill. And it's askill that a lot of leaders do
not have access to for somereason. It's not included in our
leadership training and our atleast not in our initial
leadership training. But thereare ways to facilitate change
that really helped people gothrough the steps and go through
(03:59):
the processes where they go fromresistance to acceptance, and
even support and buy in. Butthere are phases along the way
and understanding those phases,but also understanding how to
help other people manage thosephases, is what we're talking
about here. And you make a greatpoint that teachers are critical
(04:21):
thinkers, we want criticalthinkers on our staff, right. So
we don't want everybody just toaccept everything at face value,
and to just be compliant forcompliance sake. We want to have
those deep conversations we wantthe buy in we want to be working
toward the same vision and thesame goals with enthusiasm with
(04:43):
passion and understanding thewhy is the first step to that.
Becca Silver (04:47):
Yes. And you know, one of the things that I
experienced is when whoever,whatever top leader whether it's
a district leader or a schoolleader, or someone you know in
between between those leaders,whoever decides to make the
change is connected to theirwhy. And there tends to be a gap
(05:08):
between that person who haspurchased the change many times,
let's be honest, many timesthere's a purchase involved,
right? We bought a newcurriculum, we bought a new
philosophy, right? We need toimplement something, right?
Whoever made that decision tochange is naturally bought in,
they live the why. And thenthere's a gap between them, and
(05:28):
the people under them. Theyforget that the people under
them are not necessarily boughtinto the why, why this is
happening, or understand why thechange is happening, right. And
so today, I am in a district,and the district head that's in
charge of the initiative, I'mhelping to roll out called me
(05:51):
and she said, Becca, I'm meetingwith my principals on Friday.
And there is hesitation to youknow, bring forth this
initiative. And she said, youknow, and I said, Look, you need
to start with the why, why thisis happening? She said, I
already said the why. And Isaid, you need to say it again.
(06:13):
And she said, Why don't you knowwhat, why do I keep having to
say it over and over again. AndI said you are connected to the
why they are not. And peopleneed to hear it many, many
times, sometimes too many, to bebought in and sent in different
ways, right? We are askingpeople who have their own set of
(06:35):
beliefs and motivations andmindsets to buy into something
that us the changemakers arealready bought into. And it
takes something because everyonethinks differently.
Unknown (06:47):
Yes. And sometimes there's more than one gap
between the person who decidesto make the change and as bought
in to the people who actuallyhave to implement the change. So
the person you're talking to,may have to help facilitate the
buy in and the change and theresistance of the principles who
then after go and facilitatethat change for the teachers and
(07:10):
their staff members and thecoaches that work for them. So
there could be so many levels ofpeople that really need to
understand why the change ishappening. And like you said,
they have to make that personalconnection to what part they
play in the successfulimplementation of the change.
Otherwise, it won't have thesame meaning for them. And they
(07:33):
certainly won't have thededication that the the original
change maker wants.
Becca Silver (07:39):
Yes. You know, and when I look at this specific
district, there is a wide rangeof buy in from the teachers. And
it's not surprising, right?
Because there's a wide range ofbuying buying from the
principals. What's really coolis here, we're experiencing
principals saying, explain to uswhy right? They're pulling it
from the district say pleaselike we we want to understand
(08:01):
why this is happening. Right.
And in some districts thathappens and some it doesn't,
right, some you get justresistance or refusal to do it.
Some you get compliance. AndI've seen this in schools, that
there's a school leader that'sjust compliantly following
directions from the districtbecause you know, they want to
keep their job or be in goodfavor, right? And then there is
(08:26):
no other way to be from theteachers below besides
compliance. Right? The firststep that we want to cover is we
not only want to go over whatthe change is, and teach the
skills of the new change, or inthe elements of the new change.
We want to talk about why it'shappening, and we want to do it
often. Every time there's a PDon what to do there has got
(08:50):
we've got to start with why wedo it
Unknown (08:52):
right. And we have to not only talk about it often,
but allow people time to processand make the connections to how
is it affecting me? How is thischange affecting what I do every
day? How can I make thismeaningful for myself, and my
purpose and my job, especiallythose of us that work directly
(09:15):
with students, we have to makethat personal connection in
order to implement the changewith any kind of fidelity.
Becca Silver (09:24):
Yes, and what that takes is reflection for people
to make their own meaning ofwhat is happening. They have got
to have time to reflect notbeing told in an email to
reflect when in a staff meetingin a place that everyone is
sitting together for them tohave carved out time to reflect
(09:45):
on the change that is happening.
And that delineates engagementfrom compliance.
Unknown (09:52):
Absolutely. And also to reflect in different ways and to
understand that people are goingto take down For it amounts of
time to get to the place wherethey understand the change, and
they make that personalconnection. So some people need
to take time. You know, it maybe days, it may be weeks where
they just need to process thatinternally. So one
Becca Silver (10:16):
of the things Anthony Muhammad talks about is
the importance for us torecognize that human beings are
complex, right? And I want toread to you something he says,
Because Okay, he says, leadersalso appeal to people's innate
drive to understand the world,to make sense of it, to gain
control over their lives andbecome increasingly self
(10:38):
directed. Right. And that's whatwe're asking leaders and coaches
to do. Treat human beings as thecomplex beings that we are,
right? We're not littleLemmings, just waiting for the
next direction. And you know,don't make your teachers wrong,
when they don't immediately wantto follow your directions. Start
(11:01):
with Why Simon Sinek startasking yourself, why they might
be resisting the change. Andstart with explaining why the
change is happening.
Unknown (11:14):
I think that's so powerful, the fact that humans
are complex. And to help humansunderstand the complexity of
what they're dealing withinternally, they might not even
realize what's happening. Maybeeven before we start talking
about the why, and the change,that's going to happen, we lay
(11:36):
the groundwork and preparepeople by really admitting and
bringing to the surface, thefact that change is difficult
for most of us, and lettingpeople reflect on changes that
they've been through in thepast, and how they dealt with
it, how it made them feel, we'veall been through change that we
(11:57):
resisted, that wasuncomfortable. And a lot of
times when you get to the otherside of it, you can look back,
and you learn from thoseexperiences, and you realize
where your resistance was comingfrom? And then how moving
through that. And askingquestions, and building your own
understanding gets you to theother side. So I think, allow
(12:21):
that a great first step, in myopinion, is bringing that to the
surface, letting people thinkabout write about and talk about
changes, they've been throughthe different phases that the
change took them through, andthen introduce the next change
and say, All right, rememberthose things that you've been
through in the past, that'sgoing to help us get through
(12:43):
this next change that we're allgetting ready to go through and
you don't have to do it alone.
We're doing it together. Solet's address it. Let's support
each other. And then let's talkabout why we're doing it and
make those personal connections.
Becca Silver (13:00):
So leaders, we're going to leave you with this,
use your powerful, beautifulvoices, and communicate why the
change is happening, communicateto your staff, communicate to
everyone involved and impactedin this change, communicate,
communicate, communicate. And onthat note, I want to thank MIA
(13:24):
for joining us for part one ofour series. And those of you
listening, please stay tuned forpart two next week. All right.
And if you're interested inlearning more about the
resistance work that the wholeeducator does. There are links
in the show notes that bring youto our foundations course as
(13:44):
well as our whole educatorAcademy which is a power blow
that helps train you andeffectively addressing
resistance across your schooland district. And until next
time and just remember, don'ttreat people the way you want to
be treated. Treat them how theywant to be treated. Take care
Hello coaches
Becca Silver (00:01):
and leaders, I am so excited to have a series of
conversations with the amazingmeetup humo. To discuss
resistance to change, we aregoing to be having a four part
resistance series. I'm soexcited. So before we jump in to
(00:22):
the material, and teaching youhow we deal with resistance and
what it could look like, and whyit happens, first, I want me to
introduce herself and tell youwhat she is doing in education
today. Hi, Becca,
Unknown (00:39):
I am currently working with a direction and I'm a
program manager, which means Iget to oversee amazing projects
with educators where we coachschool leaders, we train
instructional coaches. And letme tell you, resistance is a
number one topic that we dealwith in our work. So this is
(01:02):
going to be spot on and directlyrelated to what I'm doing. And I
know what you're doing as well.
Becca Silver (01:08):
Yes, this is one of the main things that we
address when we are coachingfrom the top down. Right. And
you and I were talking aboutthis, you know, and it could
have been one episode. But wewanted to make it four episodes,
because it's such a big topic.
And it's wildly misunderstood,
Unknown (01:29):
right? Yes. Like, there's so many ways to deal
with it. And you can go so deepand understanding where the
resistance comes from, and thenhow to address that. So I agree.
I'm glad were spreading this outover more than one episode.
Becca Silver (01:44):
Yeah. And you know, one of the things I really
appreciate about you is not onlyare you heavily embedded in
working with school leaders andcoaches, is that you also have a
life coaching background likeme. And so we really are
experienced in working withpeople's mindsets and
motivations. And resistance tochange is not about who people
are. It really is aboutmotivation. Right?
Unknown (02:08):
Right. And it's about getting out of your comfort
zone. It's about feeling out ofbalance. Because we get so
comfortable, we get used to oursystems and structures that we
create for our life.
Becca Silver (02:18):
The thing about change, Peter block says this,
he says when change happens,expect or resistance, and I'm
gonna say that again, whenchange happens, expect
resistance. And that's been oneof the mottos and the flags I've
been flying lately aboutresistance, we tend to demonize
it like it's bad, that folks areresisting the change. And it's
(02:39):
like, actually, we've hiredcritical thinkers, and it's
fine. So we are going to beframing our four episodes on
Anthony Muhammad's levels ofresistance. He speaks about them
in transforming school cultures,and one of his earlier books,
and then he also really expandson them in his later book time
(03:03):
for change. And so I actuallywant to read to you about the
first level of resistance. Thisis where leaders must
effectively communicate therationale, the why of the work,
people tend to resist change topractice and lack motivation to
improve when leaders have notskillfully communicated the
(03:24):
rationale or case forimprovement. To embrace a
vision, people have to clearlyunderstand the vision and feel
personally compelled tocontribute to
Unknown (03:35):
the vision that is so true, because facilitating
change is a skill. And it's askill that a lot of leaders do
not have access to for somereason. It's not included in our
leadership training and our atleast not in our initial
leadership training. But thereare ways to facilitate change
that really helped people gothrough the steps and go through
(03:59):
the processes where they go fromresistance to acceptance, and
even support and buy in. Butthere are phases along the way
and understanding those phases,but also understanding how to
help other people manage thosephases, is what we're talking
about here. And you make a greatpoint that teachers are critical
(04:21):
thinkers, we want criticalthinkers on our staff, right. So
we don't want everybody just toaccept everything at face value,
and to just be compliant forcompliance sake. We want to have
those deep conversations we wantthe buy in we want to be working
toward the same vision and thesame goals with enthusiasm with
(04:43):
passion and understanding thewhy is the first step to that.
Becca Silver (04:47):
Yes. And you know, one of the things that I
experienced is when whoever,whatever top leader whether it's
a district leader or a schoolleader, or someone you know in
between between those leaders,whoever decides to make the
change is connected to theirwhy. And there tends to be a gap
(05:08):
between that person who haspurchased the change many times,
let's be honest, many timesthere's a purchase involved,
right? We bought a newcurriculum, we bought a new
philosophy, right? We need toimplement something, right?
Whoever made that decision tochange is naturally bought in,
they live the why. And thenthere's a gap between them, and
(05:28):
the people under them. Theyforget that the people under
them are not necessarily boughtinto the why, why this is
happening, or understand why thechange is happening, right. And
so today, I am in a district,and the district head that's in
charge of the initiative, I'mhelping to roll out called me
(05:51):
and she said, Becca, I'm meetingwith my principals on Friday.
And there is hesitation to youknow, bring forth this
initiative. And she said, youknow, and I said, Look, you need
to start with the why, why thisis happening? She said, I
already said the why. And Isaid, you need to say it again.
(06:13):
And she said, Why don't you knowwhat, why do I keep having to
say it over and over again. AndI said you are connected to the
why they are not. And peopleneed to hear it many, many
times, sometimes too many, to bebought in and sent in different
ways, right? We are askingpeople who have their own set of
(06:35):
beliefs and motivations andmindsets to buy into something
that us the changemakers arealready bought into. And it
takes something because everyonethinks differently.
Unknown (06:47):
Yes. And sometimes there's more than one gap
between the person who decidesto make the change and as bought
in to the people who actuallyhave to implement the change. So
the person you're talking to,may have to help facilitate the
buy in and the change and theresistance of the principles who
then after go and facilitatethat change for the teachers and
(07:10):
their staff members and thecoaches that work for them. So
there could be so many levels ofpeople that really need to
understand why the change ishappening. And like you said,
they have to make that personalconnection to what part they
play in the successfulimplementation of the change.
Otherwise, it won't have thesame meaning for them. And they
(07:33):
certainly won't have thededication that the the original
change maker wants.
Becca Silver (07:39):
Yes. You know, and when I look at this specific
district, there is a wide rangeof buy in from the teachers. And
it's not surprising, right?
Because there's a wide range ofbuying buying from the
principals. What's really coolis here, we're experiencing
principals saying, explain to uswhy right? They're pulling it
from the district say pleaselike we we want to understand
(08:01):
why this is happening. Right.
And in some districts thathappens and some it doesn't,
right, some you get justresistance or refusal to do it.
Some you get compliance. AndI've seen this in schools, that
there's a school leader that'sjust compliantly following
directions from the districtbecause you know, they want to
keep their job or be in goodfavor, right? And then there is
(08:26):
no other way to be from theteachers below besides
compliance. Right? The firststep that we want to cover is we
not only want to go over whatthe change is, and teach the
skills of the new change, or inthe elements of the new change.
We want to talk about why it'shappening, and we want to do it
often. Every time there's a PDon what to do there has got
(08:50):
we've got to start with why wedo it
Unknown (08:52):
right. And we have to not only talk about it often,
but allow people time to processand make the connections to how
is it affecting me? How is thischange affecting what I do every
day? How can I make thismeaningful for myself, and my
purpose and my job, especiallythose of us that work directly
(09:15):
with students, we have to makethat personal connection in
order to implement the changewith any kind of fidelity.
Becca Silver (09:24):
Yes, and what that takes is reflection for people
to make their own meaning ofwhat is happening. They have got
to have time to reflect notbeing told in an email to
reflect when in a staff meetingin a place that everyone is
sitting together for them tohave carved out time to reflect
(09:45):
on the change that is happening.
And that delineates engagementfrom compliance.
Unknown (09:52):
Absolutely. And also to reflect in different ways and to
understand that people are goingto take down For it amounts of
time to get to the place wherethey understand the change, and
they make that personalconnection. So some people need
to take time. You know, it maybe days, it may be weeks where
they just need to process thatinternally. So one
Becca Silver (10:16):
of the things Anthony Muhammad talks about is
the importance for us torecognize that human beings are
complex, right? And I want toread to you something he says,
Because Okay, he says, leadersalso appeal to people's innate
drive to understand the world,to make sense of it, to gain
control over their lives andbecome increasingly self
(10:38):
directed. Right. And that's whatwe're asking leaders and coaches
to do. Treat human beings as thecomplex beings that we are,
right? We're not littleLemmings, just waiting for the
next direction. And you know,don't make your teachers wrong,
when they don't immediately wantto follow your directions. Start
(11:01):
with Why Simon Sinek startasking yourself, why they might
be resisting the change. Andstart with explaining why the
change is happening.
Unknown (11:14):
I think that's so powerful, the fact that humans
are complex. And to help humansunderstand the complexity of
what they're dealing withinternally, they might not even
realize what's happening. Maybeeven before we start talking
about the why, and the change,that's going to happen, we lay
(11:36):
the groundwork and preparepeople by really admitting and
bringing to the surface, thefact that change is difficult
for most of us, and lettingpeople reflect on changes that
they've been through in thepast, and how they dealt with
it, how it made them feel, we'veall been through change that we
(11:57):
resisted, that wasuncomfortable. And a lot of
times when you get to the otherside of it, you can look back,
and you learn from thoseexperiences, and you realize
where your resistance was comingfrom? And then how moving
through that. And askingquestions, and building your own
understanding gets you to theother side. So I think, allow
(12:21):
that a great first step, in myopinion, is bringing that to the
surface, letting people thinkabout write about and talk about
changes, they've been throughthe different phases that the
change took them through, andthen introduce the next change
and say, All right, rememberthose things that you've been
through in the past, that'sgoing to help us get through
(12:43):
this next change that we're allgetting ready to go through and
you don't have to do it alone.
We're doing it together. Solet's address it. Let's support
each other. And then let's talkabout why we're doing it and
make those personal connections.
Becca Silver (13:00):
So leaders, we're going to leave you with this,
use your powerful, beautifulvoices, and communicate why the
change is happening, communicateto your staff, communicate to
everyone involved and impactedin this change, communicate,
communicate, communicate. And onthat note, I want to thank MIA
(13:24):
for joining us for part one ofour series. And those of you
listening, please stay tuned forpart two next week. All right.
And if you're interested inlearning more about the
resistance work that the wholeeducator does. There are links
in the show notes that bring youto our foundations course as
(13:44):
well as our whole educatorAcademy which is a power blow
that helps train you andeffectively addressing
resistance across your schooland district. And until next
time and just remember, don'ttreat people the way you want to
be treated. Treat them how theywant to be treated. Take care
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