March 28, 2023 • 19 mins
In this episode, Becca and Chrissy Beltran (aka Buzzing with Ms. B) discuss how the need to be helpful in instructional coaching can have a negative impact on your success as a coach. They clearly define the problem-solver/helper issue that instructional coaches can have and give specific tips to avoid falling into the pattern of being overly helpful. Becca and Chrissy get real with their discussion of how hard this can be with personal examples along with specific strategies to help you shift from just being helpful to making a real impact with educators. This episode will help you reframe your thinking, know exactly what questions to ask teachers, and be confident in the steps you need to take to effectively solve problems.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Becca Silver (00:00):
Hello, hello hello coaches and leaders, I am so
(00:05):
pumped to have Chrissie Beltranwith me today. She is also known
as buzzing with Ms. B. And Ihave been following her
personally for a very long time.
I love her material forinstructional coaches. And I
would love her to share with youmore about what she does in the
world of education.
Unknown (00:25):
All right, well, hey, Becca, and hey, coaches, I'm
excited to be here today. Youknow, I actually provide support
for instructional coaches andteachers. So I kind of am
operating at two differentlevels where I work with
teachers, and I coach them andprovide PD. But I also support
instructional coaches who aredoing the work that you're the
same exact work you're doingright now, which is, you know,
PLCs, building relationships,providing professional
(00:45):
development, it's so much workthat coaches have had to figure
out how to do most of the timeon their own. And we believe
that every teacher deserves acoach, I personally believe
every coach deserves a coach,too. So I'm here to be the
coach, for those of you who justdidn't get one like I didn't. In
the beginning of my coachingcareer. I provide that support
through my podcast buzzing withthe speed of coaching podcast,
(01:07):
through my blog at buzzing withMiss b.com. I have 10 years of
posts there it's been or maybe11. It's been a long time. And
my resources, which are nowavailable both on my blog and
buzzing, buzzing with thespeed.com and my TPT store.
Becca Silver (01:22):
Amazing. Yeah, you are a resource rich human. And I
am excited to like just dive alittle bit into all the things
that you know, instructionalcoaching today.
Unknown (01:31):
I'm excited to be here because I love to talk shop.
It's one of my favorite things.
Becca Silver (01:34):
So I just want to kind of jump into the topic
here. Why do you think the needto be helpful in instructional
coaching can have a negativeimpact?
Unknown (01:43):
Yeah, that's a really good question. And you're asking
a problem solving helper thisquestion, okay, that is my
nature. And I think a lot ofcoaches actually are called into
coaching, because they're like,I have figured out all this
great stuff, and I just want tohelp other people do it. So
their lives will be easier, andtheir kids will learn better,
and their teaching will beawesome. And so we come into
(02:03):
coaching, sometimes with a frameof mind that I am going to help
you I'm going to solve theseproblems for you. I'm just going
to tell you what I did, andyou're going to turn it around,
and it's going to be amazing.
And then we actually get intocoaching. And it's like nobody
wants your help. Yeah, yeah,you're like, what's wrong with
you guys? I have all theseawesome ideas. And and it's,
(02:24):
it's not that it's about you, ithas nothing to do usually with
you as a coach. The problem is,this need to help sometimes
causes us to jump over theproblem into a solution. We jump
over what the teacher isstruggling with into a possible
answer. And it can really turnpeople off. But whenever it
(02:45):
comes to teachers were like, letme just tell you what to do and
save you the time. But then thelearning doesn't happen because
they didn't go through thethinking.
Becca Silver (02:55):
Yeah, and you know, that makes me think about
the Coaching Habit, MichaelBungay Stanier talks about the
Drama Triangle, which, when Iread this book, I was obsessed
with the Drama Triangle, Ithought it was revolutionary. So
this is what happens. When kindof drama happens. We become one
of three roles, we can becomethe persecutor, we can become
(03:17):
the victim, or we can become therescuer. And the rescuer is many
times where coaches go veryeasily to be helpful, right? Oh,
don't worry, I'll come rescue,I'll take care of it. The
problem is when we come from arescuer point of view, we
automatically make the otherperson a victim role. So being a
(03:40):
rescuer isn't who you are, it'sa role that you take on and I
actually want to read from thebook because I think he says it
really amazingly, the I justwant to flesh out what rescuer
is because it's like, man, he's,he says the core belief of
rescuer is don't fight, don'tworry, let me jump in and take
it on and fix it. And thedynamic that's created is it's
(04:02):
my fault or my responsibilityand not yours. And the benefits
of playing the role is you feelmorally superior and you feel
you're indispensable, and it'snot completely altruistic. And
part of the work that we do ascoaches we want to self reflect
on why we are feeling a deepneed to rescue someone and
(04:22):
essentially put them into avictim role. Right. And, you
know, that makes me think aboutunsolicited advice. And when we
give unsolicited advice that canactually diminish trust in a
relationship. Someone can feelkind of put on in a way that
they didn't ask it'sunsolicited. They didn't ask for
that.
Unknown (04:42):
That's true. And I think that's kind of something
that I wanted to bring up youknow, some teachers have a
there's there's there certainschools of coaching, in which
you basically never give them anidea. I don't subscribe. I don't
I don't think that's apartnership. I don't think
that's real. I don't want to goto a therapist who Oh, He just
says, Well, how do you feelabout that? I don't want that. I
want somebody to say, Okay, thisis a tool you don't have, we've
(05:05):
exhausted what you can do atthis moment. And you're saying,
Help me. I don't know what todo. I think it's fine to say,
here's a tool, like when itasked for, and sometimes they
will come up to you and say,What would you do? Or what do
you think? Yeah. So, you know,whenever it's solicited, or
whenever there was a clear,bereft pneus. of experience in
(05:28):
certain areas? I absolutelybelieve yes, we offer the
insight, we offer the knowledge,and we offer the opportunity to
learn something together with acoach as a partnership. I think
that's great. But yeah,unsolicited advice has the exact
opposite effect. And it does, itturns people off, it doesn't
fill their bucket, they didn'tcome to you saying help me with
something, you're saying, Oh, Ican help I can fix that for you.
(05:49):
And the implication can almostbe if you were as good as me,
you could have fix thisyourself.
Becca Silver (05:54):
But yeah, right.
And that's where that twinge ofmoral superiority comes in,
right. We want to build up andempower professionals, right, as
professionals, when have youexperienced yourself in that
helping role right in the beinglike the advice monster in the
past, or even maybe recently,and you call yourself like, oh,
(06:15):
they did not ask for thisadvice. This is not the way to
empower this educator.
Unknown (06:21):
Yeah. I mean, it's something that I have to battle
every single day of my life. Idon't make anybody else feel
better. I mean, she's my wholepodcast, is this an opportunity
for me to give advice? We findvenues for the for our vices.
But But yeah, I know that I havegone through this 1,000,001
times, probably, and gottenbetter at it over time. As a new
(06:45):
coach, I can remember havingconversations with teachers,
certain specific teachers, whothey were, they were offering
complaints, and they hadproblems. And I can remember
giving solutions, and thenthinking, she doesn't know what
that she doesn't know what I'mtalking about. We're not even
(07:07):
speaking the same language here,like I'm referring to a strategy
that is not in her toolbox, andwhether it'll solve the problem
or not. I mean, over time, I didbelieve that would actually have
a positive effect. But it's notgoing to solve the problem
today. And so even if she wereto try to go back to the
classroom today and try to dothe thing that I said, it would
(07:27):
be completely ineffective. Andthen I can remember the teacher
just going okay. Okay. Sure. Andpretending that that was maybe a
good idea. And me really, onsome level, knowing that was
never going to happen,
Becca Silver (07:42):
for sure. You know, in my early days, I would
give the advice that works in myclassroom. Exactly. This worked
for me, why isn't it working foryou? And then when the teacher
wouldn't do it, or would kind ofdo it and right. In my head, I
would label them as resistantright out and make up some
reason why they were at faultfor not doing the very good
(08:03):
advice that I gave them. And Isee this so often.
Unknown (08:07):
Yeah, it's because we've set up our response as the
right answer. Yes. So then theright answer to the question,
and now you're not doing itright. So something's wrong
about the way you did it.
Because it would be great if youjust did it the right way. Like,
yes.
Becca Silver (08:23):
You know, isn't that interesting? I'm gonna say
something, I'm gonna I'm gonnabroaden out this conversation,
because this is so so I havethis theory. So I think most
teachers, not all, but mostteachers were excellent
students, they liked school. Sothese, these teachers that were
good students, I call them thegood teacher, they want to do a
good job in school, and now theywant to do a good job as a
(08:45):
teacher, right? And then thoseexcellent teachers get promoted
a coach, and now they want to doa good job as a coach, right?
And there's just kind of like,goodness, around goodness, you
know, like, want to be good. AndI think it can also have that
rightness about it, right? Like,I just want to do a good job.
And I have the right answer.
I've been working really hard onthis. And it can kind of just be
in the context of it all thecoaching and the teaching,
(09:11):
right? Because I certainly knowteachers that I work with, they
just want to do it. Right.
Unknown (09:18):
Yeah, it's like there's a moral imperative to it. And
obviously, I do believe thatthere is morality associated
with the work that we do, youknow, because we are, we are
helping children build theirlives, right. And helping
teachers build children who canbuild their lives. But yeah, the
idea of this is the right way todo it. If you reminds me of I
don't know if you've read thechildren's book the good egg.
(09:39):
No, it's really good. It's partof the series that has the bad
seeds the smart cookie. And sothe idea is that this good egg
is like he's he's the good eggout of the dozen all the others
are naughty. And then he'salways spending his time trying
to tell the others what theyshould be doing. Good egg,
that's his identity. I am good.
I am right I do things the rightway. And so he's always like
(10:00):
telling everybody, you know, no,don't do that. And also that
he's just stressing out and hestarts to get little cracks in
his shell. And finally he goesaway by himself. And he learns
that he doesn't have to be like,everybody else doesn't have to
do things like he does in orderfor it to be okay. And it kind
of reminds me what you'retalking about, we have this this
idea of there's a good and rightway to do things. And we're
gonna do things the good andright way.
Becca Silver (10:22):
Right. Yes, I love that. Okay, so now I want to
shift into what can coaches doabout this right? How can they
shift from this being helpfulcontext to actually making a
real impact with educators?
Unknown (10:36):
Yeah, that's a good question. I think that whenever
I, I'm in conversation, and I dothis on, even on my podcast, I
have coaching calls, I havecoaches who call in and are
like, I need help with thisspecific area, right. And I need
to ask questions to understandbetter, because those questions,
they're kind of multipurpose,they do help me understand the
(10:58):
situation better. So that I cancan kind of clarify what's
happening and see, you know,what resources they may need or
what they could benefit from.
But they also help the speaker,the teacher or the coach, they
help this person think throughwhat is going on, so that they
can really identify thesituation and the possibilities.
Because we get stuck, all of usget stuck in our own little
(11:20):
bubble. I did this I did. Thisis not working. It's not working
to stuck, I'm stuck. I don'tknow what else to do. And our
bubble gets smaller and smallerand smaller. And so what we can
do is help them kind of identifywhat is happening. What is going
on? What What have you alreadytried? Right? What Why do you
think this is happening? Like,what could the cause of this be?
What happens when you do this?
(11:40):
Tell me more about this specificthing. And in digging into that,
we can help them kind of uncoverwhat's actually going on? What
their thought processes aroundit, and what some possible
changes, or different directionsthey could take could be, I
found a lot of benefit. And justif you don't know what to say,
and which is I mean, we wealways feel like we know what to
(12:03):
say. But if you don't know, asksomething else. Yeah, just ask
another question. I know that Ithink it's it's Jim Knight who
says, Just tell me more. He saysTell me more all the time. Tell
me more. Tell me more. I findthat with certain people, with
most teachers out to be morespecific than that. Then tell me
more. Tell me more about whatthe students do. Tell me more
(12:27):
about what they're writing. Tellme more about because if certain
people I say tell me more,they're like I, I gave you what
I got. I'm spent I'm here foranswers. Okay. Yeah. So I find
digging in, tell me more aboutsomething specific, is a more
helpful way for me to reallyunderstand what is going on, and
what is what the situation is,so that they can verbalize it.
(12:49):
And then sometimes it's justlike all of us, we talk through
something, sometimes we come upwith an idea, just from the act
of talking,
Becca Silver (12:56):
you listed a bunch of really helpful impacts of
asking all those questions. Andthere's one more I wanted to
add, which was making sure thatwe are solving the right
problem. Hmm, absolutely. Youknow, and so it's, it's, I'd
say, at least a quarter of thetime when I'm working with
educators and coaches, right,they come in with their
(13:18):
complaint or their frustration,right. And, and I'm just like
you, I got some answers. And Ihave to hold back and wait,
right and ask the questions, atleast a quarter of the time,
what they think is the problemis actually not the problem. So
if I jumped in with mysolutions, I would be solving
the wrong problem.
Unknown (13:38):
Absolutely. Exactly.
Becca Silver (13:41):
So I wanted to kind of wrap up with what are
your thoughts about some helpfulquestions that coaches can ask
teachers to help them to shiftfrom simply being helpful to
actually impactful?
Unknown (13:58):
Yeah, that's a really good question. And so one of the
questions that I really like,and I have a few ideas on this,
but the first one is somethingthat my friend Jessica Vance,
I've actually had on the podcasta couple of times to discuss
inquiry. She says her favoritequestion is what would happen
if? And I think it's a greatquestion. Because if we can kind
of train that into the thinkingof teachers, you know, it puts
(14:19):
them in the driver's seat toenvision what change could look
like, what it would look like ifthey tried out something new.
And it kind of gives them theopportunity to think through
possibilities. And I thinkanother good question is, what
do you want to happen? Whatoutcome are you looking for?
What are you trying toaccomplish with this? And I feel
(14:40):
it, I asked that one a lot. Whatare you trying to accomplish?
Because sometimes, like you saidearlier, we're trying to solve
the wrong problem. And teachersmight be trying to solve the
wrong problem, and they're noteven sure what they're trying to
accomplish. But again, if we cankeep asking this question, and
get it ingrained in the way thatwe think about teaching, well,
what am I trying to accomplishwith this? Why am I choosing to
spend time on it? What is mygoal for this?
Becca Silver (15:01):
Yeah, and I think a related question I just
thought about was why is thisimportant to you? But especially
if you're you, as a coach aresensing like, oh, yeah, I'm not
entirely sure. You know, thenthis is the problem, right? Is
this a thing we want to bespending our time focusing on?
Unknown (15:16):
Yes, absolutely. I sometimes I've asked people that
question. And they hesitate.
Because they haven't thoughtabout it. And that's fine.
Great. Good. Give them the time.
We got to give them a thinktime. That's part of that's the
first step. Wait, listen, yeah.
And then ask questions, right?
We don't sometimes wheneverpeople ask a question, we ask
people a question, and then theydon't respond immediately. We
(15:37):
feel like we have to immediatelyfill the space and follow up
with something. But what wereally want to do, because
that's a helpful, right, well, Idon't want you to sit here in
discomfort. And in in a, youknow, in this gray hazy area
where you don't know the answer.
Let me give you a question youdo know the answer to. But that
again, there's no struggle,there's no thought so there's no
real problem solving. No realchange is happening. Wait and
give them the time. Just Justlike with kids?
Becca Silver (16:01):
Yeah, exactly.
This is just a greatconversation to start. You know,
one of the things that kind ofwant to wrap up our, our
questions conversation with isno questions are effective if it
comes from an inauthentic place?
Well, that's true. We want to wewant to, you know, really be
curious and connected with oureducators, right? When we're
asking questions, we don't wantto, you know, be looking at our
(16:24):
list of protocols and, and prewritten questions and kind of go
down almost, you know, checkingthe box kind of list. We want to
really, we want to do the workto embed them in our being. And,
you know, and come from a placeof caring and commitment to
critical thinking, Yeah, I
Unknown (16:44):
think you're right, in that we can, authenticity is
important. And then, you know,really expecting positive intent
and positive response fromteachers is important. Yeah. And
bringing that with us as well ascoaches.
Becca Silver (16:57):
So this is great.
This has been such a funconversation to have about being
helpful and reframing this forour helpful coaches and leaders.
So where can folks find you to,you know, take advantage of all
your amazing coaching resources?
Unknown (17:14):
Well, thanks, you can find me@buzzfeed.com You can
check out the podcast buzzingwith Miss B, the coaching
podcast, and you can also findme on Instagram. That's mostly
that's the social media thatgets most of my attention and
just added a fuzzy with Miss B
Becca Silver (17:28):
follow Chrissy on Instagram. I'll put all of her
links in the show notes and Ijust want to thank you for
taking the time to share with usall the things that you know,
Unknown (17:37):
I love it. Thank you so much for having me.
Hello, hello hello coaches and leaders, I am so
(00:05):
pumped to have Chrissie Beltranwith me today. She is also known
as buzzing with Ms. B. And Ihave been following her
personally for a very long time.
I love her material forinstructional coaches. And I
would love her to share with youmore about what she does in the
world of education.
Unknown (00:25):
All right, well, hey, Becca, and hey, coaches, I'm
excited to be here today. Youknow, I actually provide support
for instructional coaches andteachers. So I kind of am
operating at two differentlevels where I work with
teachers, and I coach them andprovide PD. But I also support
instructional coaches who aredoing the work that you're the
same exact work you're doingright now, which is, you know,
PLCs, building relationships,providing professional
(00:45):
development, it's so much workthat coaches have had to figure
out how to do most of the timeon their own. And we believe
that every teacher deserves acoach, I personally believe
every coach deserves a coach,too. So I'm here to be the
coach, for those of you who justdidn't get one like I didn't. In
the beginning of my coachingcareer. I provide that support
through my podcast buzzing withthe speed of coaching podcast,
(01:07):
through my blog at buzzing withMiss b.com. I have 10 years of
posts there it's been or maybe11. It's been a long time. And
my resources, which are nowavailable both on my blog and
buzzing, buzzing with thespeed.com and my TPT store.
Becca Silver (01:22):
Amazing. Yeah, you are a resource rich human. And I
am excited to like just dive alittle bit into all the things
that you know, instructionalcoaching today.
Unknown (01:31):
I'm excited to be here because I love to talk shop.
It's one of my favorite things.
Becca Silver (01:34):
So I just want to kind of jump into the topic
here. Why do you think the needto be helpful in instructional
coaching can have a negativeimpact?
Unknown (01:43):
Yeah, that's a really good question. And you're asking
a problem solving helper thisquestion, okay, that is my
nature. And I think a lot ofcoaches actually are called into
coaching, because they're like,I have figured out all this
great stuff, and I just want tohelp other people do it. So
their lives will be easier, andtheir kids will learn better,
and their teaching will beawesome. And so we come into
(02:03):
coaching, sometimes with a frameof mind that I am going to help
you I'm going to solve theseproblems for you. I'm just going
to tell you what I did, andyou're going to turn it around,
and it's going to be amazing.
And then we actually get intocoaching. And it's like nobody
wants your help. Yeah, yeah,you're like, what's wrong with
you guys? I have all theseawesome ideas. And and it's,
(02:24):
it's not that it's about you, ithas nothing to do usually with
you as a coach. The problem is,this need to help sometimes
causes us to jump over theproblem into a solution. We jump
over what the teacher isstruggling with into a possible
answer. And it can really turnpeople off. But whenever it
(02:45):
comes to teachers were like, letme just tell you what to do and
save you the time. But then thelearning doesn't happen because
they didn't go through thethinking.
Becca Silver (02:55):
Yeah, and you know, that makes me think about
the Coaching Habit, MichaelBungay Stanier talks about the
Drama Triangle, which, when Iread this book, I was obsessed
with the Drama Triangle, Ithought it was revolutionary. So
this is what happens. When kindof drama happens. We become one
of three roles, we can becomethe persecutor, we can become
(03:17):
the victim, or we can become therescuer. And the rescuer is many
times where coaches go veryeasily to be helpful, right? Oh,
don't worry, I'll come rescue,I'll take care of it. The
problem is when we come from arescuer point of view, we
automatically make the otherperson a victim role. So being a
(03:40):
rescuer isn't who you are, it'sa role that you take on and I
actually want to read from thebook because I think he says it
really amazingly, the I justwant to flesh out what rescuer
is because it's like, man, he's,he says the core belief of
rescuer is don't fight, don'tworry, let me jump in and take
it on and fix it. And thedynamic that's created is it's
(04:02):
my fault or my responsibilityand not yours. And the benefits
of playing the role is you feelmorally superior and you feel
you're indispensable, and it'snot completely altruistic. And
part of the work that we do ascoaches we want to self reflect
on why we are feeling a deepneed to rescue someone and
(04:22):
essentially put them into avictim role. Right. And, you
know, that makes me think aboutunsolicited advice. And when we
give unsolicited advice that canactually diminish trust in a
relationship. Someone can feelkind of put on in a way that
they didn't ask it'sunsolicited. They didn't ask for
that.
Unknown (04:42):
That's true. And I think that's kind of something
that I wanted to bring up youknow, some teachers have a
there's there's there certainschools of coaching, in which
you basically never give them anidea. I don't subscribe. I don't
I don't think that's apartnership. I don't think
that's real. I don't want to goto a therapist who Oh, He just
says, Well, how do you feelabout that? I don't want that. I
want somebody to say, Okay, thisis a tool you don't have, we've
(05:05):
exhausted what you can do atthis moment. And you're saying,
Help me. I don't know what todo. I think it's fine to say,
here's a tool, like when itasked for, and sometimes they
will come up to you and say,What would you do? Or what do
you think? Yeah. So, you know,whenever it's solicited, or
whenever there was a clear,bereft pneus. of experience in
(05:28):
certain areas? I absolutelybelieve yes, we offer the
insight, we offer the knowledge,and we offer the opportunity to
learn something together with acoach as a partnership. I think
that's great. But yeah,unsolicited advice has the exact
opposite effect. And it does, itturns people off, it doesn't
fill their bucket, they didn'tcome to you saying help me with
something, you're saying, Oh, Ican help I can fix that for you.
(05:49):
And the implication can almostbe if you were as good as me,
you could have fix thisyourself.
Becca Silver (05:54):
But yeah, right.
And that's where that twinge ofmoral superiority comes in,
right. We want to build up andempower professionals, right, as
professionals, when have youexperienced yourself in that
helping role right in the beinglike the advice monster in the
past, or even maybe recently,and you call yourself like, oh,
(06:15):
they did not ask for thisadvice. This is not the way to
empower this educator.
Unknown (06:21):
Yeah. I mean, it's something that I have to battle
every single day of my life. Idon't make anybody else feel
better. I mean, she's my wholepodcast, is this an opportunity
for me to give advice? We findvenues for the for our vices.
But But yeah, I know that I havegone through this 1,000,001
times, probably, and gottenbetter at it over time. As a new
(06:45):
coach, I can remember havingconversations with teachers,
certain specific teachers, whothey were, they were offering
complaints, and they hadproblems. And I can remember
giving solutions, and thenthinking, she doesn't know what
that she doesn't know what I'mtalking about. We're not even
(07:07):
speaking the same language here,like I'm referring to a strategy
that is not in her toolbox, andwhether it'll solve the problem
or not. I mean, over time, I didbelieve that would actually have
a positive effect. But it's notgoing to solve the problem
today. And so even if she wereto try to go back to the
classroom today and try to dothe thing that I said, it would
(07:27):
be completely ineffective. Andthen I can remember the teacher
just going okay. Okay. Sure. Andpretending that that was maybe a
good idea. And me really, onsome level, knowing that was
never going to happen,
Becca Silver (07:42):
for sure. You know, in my early days, I would
give the advice that works in myclassroom. Exactly. This worked
for me, why isn't it working foryou? And then when the teacher
wouldn't do it, or would kind ofdo it and right. In my head, I
would label them as resistantright out and make up some
reason why they were at faultfor not doing the very good
(08:03):
advice that I gave them. And Isee this so often.
Unknown (08:07):
Yeah, it's because we've set up our response as the
right answer. Yes. So then theright answer to the question,
and now you're not doing itright. So something's wrong
about the way you did it.
Because it would be great if youjust did it the right way. Like,
yes.
Becca Silver (08:23):
You know, isn't that interesting? I'm gonna say
something, I'm gonna I'm gonnabroaden out this conversation,
because this is so so I havethis theory. So I think most
teachers, not all, but mostteachers were excellent
students, they liked school. Sothese, these teachers that were
good students, I call them thegood teacher, they want to do a
good job in school, and now theywant to do a good job as a
(08:45):
teacher, right? And then thoseexcellent teachers get promoted
a coach, and now they want to doa good job as a coach, right?
And there's just kind of like,goodness, around goodness, you
know, like, want to be good. AndI think it can also have that
rightness about it, right? Like,I just want to do a good job.
And I have the right answer.
I've been working really hard onthis. And it can kind of just be
in the context of it all thecoaching and the teaching,
(09:11):
right? Because I certainly knowteachers that I work with, they
just want to do it. Right.
Unknown (09:18):
Yeah, it's like there's a moral imperative to it. And
obviously, I do believe thatthere is morality associated
with the work that we do, youknow, because we are, we are
helping children build theirlives, right. And helping
teachers build children who canbuild their lives. But yeah, the
idea of this is the right way todo it. If you reminds me of I
don't know if you've read thechildren's book the good egg.
(09:39):
No, it's really good. It's partof the series that has the bad
seeds the smart cookie. And sothe idea is that this good egg
is like he's he's the good eggout of the dozen all the others
are naughty. And then he'salways spending his time trying
to tell the others what theyshould be doing. Good egg,
that's his identity. I am good.
I am right I do things the rightway. And so he's always like
(10:00):
telling everybody, you know, no,don't do that. And also that
he's just stressing out and hestarts to get little cracks in
his shell. And finally he goesaway by himself. And he learns
that he doesn't have to be like,everybody else doesn't have to
do things like he does in orderfor it to be okay. And it kind
of reminds me what you'retalking about, we have this this
idea of there's a good and rightway to do things. And we're
gonna do things the good andright way.
Becca Silver (10:22):
Right. Yes, I love that. Okay, so now I want to
shift into what can coaches doabout this right? How can they
shift from this being helpfulcontext to actually making a
real impact with educators?
Unknown (10:36):
Yeah, that's a good question. I think that whenever
I, I'm in conversation, and I dothis on, even on my podcast, I
have coaching calls, I havecoaches who call in and are
like, I need help with thisspecific area, right. And I need
to ask questions to understandbetter, because those questions,
they're kind of multipurpose,they do help me understand the
(10:58):
situation better. So that I cancan kind of clarify what's
happening and see, you know,what resources they may need or
what they could benefit from.
But they also help the speaker,the teacher or the coach, they
help this person think throughwhat is going on, so that they
can really identify thesituation and the possibilities.
Because we get stuck, all of usget stuck in our own little
(11:20):
bubble. I did this I did. Thisis not working. It's not working
to stuck, I'm stuck. I don'tknow what else to do. And our
bubble gets smaller and smallerand smaller. And so what we can
do is help them kind of identifywhat is happening. What is going
on? What What have you alreadytried? Right? What Why do you
think this is happening? Like,what could the cause of this be?
What happens when you do this?
(11:40):
Tell me more about this specificthing. And in digging into that,
we can help them kind of uncoverwhat's actually going on? What
their thought processes aroundit, and what some possible
changes, or different directionsthey could take could be, I
found a lot of benefit. And justif you don't know what to say,
and which is I mean, we wealways feel like we know what to
(12:03):
say. But if you don't know, asksomething else. Yeah, just ask
another question. I know that Ithink it's it's Jim Knight who
says, Just tell me more. He saysTell me more all the time. Tell
me more. Tell me more. I findthat with certain people, with
most teachers out to be morespecific than that. Then tell me
more. Tell me more about whatthe students do. Tell me more
(12:27):
about what they're writing. Tellme more about because if certain
people I say tell me more,they're like I, I gave you what
I got. I'm spent I'm here foranswers. Okay. Yeah. So I find
digging in, tell me more aboutsomething specific, is a more
helpful way for me to reallyunderstand what is going on, and
what is what the situation is,so that they can verbalize it.
(12:49):
And then sometimes it's justlike all of us, we talk through
something, sometimes we come upwith an idea, just from the act
of talking,
Becca Silver (12:56):
you listed a bunch of really helpful impacts of
asking all those questions. Andthere's one more I wanted to
add, which was making sure thatwe are solving the right
problem. Hmm, absolutely. Youknow, and so it's, it's, I'd
say, at least a quarter of thetime when I'm working with
educators and coaches, right,they come in with their
(13:18):
complaint or their frustration,right. And, and I'm just like
you, I got some answers. And Ihave to hold back and wait,
right and ask the questions, atleast a quarter of the time,
what they think is the problemis actually not the problem. So
if I jumped in with mysolutions, I would be solving
the wrong problem.
Unknown (13:38):
Absolutely. Exactly.
Becca Silver (13:41):
So I wanted to kind of wrap up with what are
your thoughts about some helpfulquestions that coaches can ask
teachers to help them to shiftfrom simply being helpful to
actually impactful?
Unknown (13:58):
Yeah, that's a really good question. And so one of the
questions that I really like,and I have a few ideas on this,
but the first one is somethingthat my friend Jessica Vance,
I've actually had on the podcasta couple of times to discuss
inquiry. She says her favoritequestion is what would happen
if? And I think it's a greatquestion. Because if we can kind
of train that into the thinkingof teachers, you know, it puts
(14:19):
them in the driver's seat toenvision what change could look
like, what it would look like ifthey tried out something new.
And it kind of gives them theopportunity to think through
possibilities. And I thinkanother good question is, what
do you want to happen? Whatoutcome are you looking for?
What are you trying toaccomplish with this? And I feel
(14:40):
it, I asked that one a lot. Whatare you trying to accomplish?
Because sometimes, like you saidearlier, we're trying to solve
the wrong problem. And teachersmight be trying to solve the
wrong problem, and they're noteven sure what they're trying to
accomplish. But again, if we cankeep asking this question, and
get it ingrained in the way thatwe think about teaching, well,
what am I trying to accomplishwith this? Why am I choosing to
spend time on it? What is mygoal for this?
Becca Silver (15:01):
Yeah, and I think a related question I just
thought about was why is thisimportant to you? But especially
if you're you, as a coach aresensing like, oh, yeah, I'm not
entirely sure. You know, thenthis is the problem, right? Is
this a thing we want to bespending our time focusing on?
Unknown (15:16):
Yes, absolutely. I sometimes I've asked people that
question. And they hesitate.
Because they haven't thoughtabout it. And that's fine.
Great. Good. Give them the time.
We got to give them a thinktime. That's part of that's the
first step. Wait, listen, yeah.
And then ask questions, right?
We don't sometimes wheneverpeople ask a question, we ask
people a question, and then theydon't respond immediately. We
(15:37):
feel like we have to immediatelyfill the space and follow up
with something. But what wereally want to do, because
that's a helpful, right, well, Idon't want you to sit here in
discomfort. And in in a, youknow, in this gray hazy area
where you don't know the answer.
Let me give you a question youdo know the answer to. But that
again, there's no struggle,there's no thought so there's no
real problem solving. No realchange is happening. Wait and
give them the time. Just Justlike with kids?
Becca Silver (16:01):
Yeah, exactly.
This is just a greatconversation to start. You know,
one of the things that kind ofwant to wrap up our, our
questions conversation with isno questions are effective if it
comes from an inauthentic place?
Well, that's true. We want to wewant to, you know, really be
curious and connected with oureducators, right? When we're
asking questions, we don't wantto, you know, be looking at our
(16:24):
list of protocols and, and prewritten questions and kind of go
down almost, you know, checkingthe box kind of list. We want to
really, we want to do the workto embed them in our being. And,
you know, and come from a placeof caring and commitment to
critical thinking, Yeah, I
Unknown (16:44):
think you're right, in that we can, authenticity is
important. And then, you know,really expecting positive intent
and positive response fromteachers is important. Yeah. And
bringing that with us as well ascoaches.
Becca Silver (16:57):
So this is great.
This has been such a funconversation to have about being
helpful and reframing this forour helpful coaches and leaders.
So where can folks find you to,you know, take advantage of all
your amazing coaching resources?
Unknown (17:14):
Well, thanks, you can find me@buzzfeed.com You can
check out the podcast buzzingwith Miss B, the coaching
podcast, and you can also findme on Instagram. That's mostly
that's the social media thatgets most of my attention and
just added a fuzzy with Miss B
Becca Silver (17:28):
follow Chrissy on Instagram. I'll put all of her
links in the show notes and Ijust want to thank you for
taking the time to share with usall the things that you know,
Unknown (17:37):
I love it. Thank you so much for having me.
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