April 9, 2023 • 29 mins
In this episode, Becca and Nita Creekmore (LoveTeachBless) discuss the nature of adult relationships and how to authentically build connections with others. Becca and Nita give insight through their own personal coaching experiences and the relationships they have built along the way. Through this discussion, they give you specific ways to build your own relationships and connections with teachers. Tips for shifting your mindset to allow for better relationships along with examples of what successfully building relationships looks and feels like are specified. You will be left with practical tips for building a positive foundation for relationships as well as exactly what to do and say when a relationship is in need of repair. Expect to be encouraged and have your self awareness expanded through this conversation as you make a positive impact in your leadership role with your relationships.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Becca Silver (00:00):
Hello, hello, hello coaches and leaders. I am
so excited to have AnitaCreekmore on she works with
Elena Aguilar and also has herown consultancy. And I am so
excited to hear all of herexpertise around very
specifically building adultrelationships. Today we're gonna
(00:22):
have a really interesting kindof windy conversation about
relationships. And I feel likeit actually mirrors our
relationships. Oh, it's kind ofwindy up and down and around.
But I am clearly very passionateabout relationships. And so
we're going to kind of just talkabout the nature of them today,
(00:43):
how to build them and anythingelse that comes up in this
conversation. So welcome, Anita.
Unknown (00:49):
Thank you for having me, Becca. I'm so happy to be on
here. And finally get to chatwith you about this.
Becca Silver (00:55):
Yes, yeah. So we've been talking about this
for a while. Do you just want toquickly share with the listeners
what has been your journey ineducation?
Unknown (01:04):
Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh, it's been a windy journey. You
were saying the word windy. ButI and I know this sounds like
though, like everyone says this,but I really knew I wanted to be
a teacher at like age 12 or 13.
My mother was a teacher. She wasa PE teacher. And I thought it
was because she's retired nowfor 40 years. And so I think
because my life was entwined inlike the school system and like
(01:28):
being dragged to this afterschool activity or this camp she
decided to do or whatever I wentto University of South Carolina
Gamecocks erotica, the final forwomen's basketball. And so I had
to plug there. And so I went touniversity, South Carolina. And
I studied education there. Itwas a minor I majored in
English. And then I went to getmy Master's because they had a
(01:50):
five year program came out, Itaught for 13 years, all
elementary. So I taught firstgrade, second grade, fifth
grade, dabbled a little bit inthird and fourth. And then I
became a coach. And the path tobecoming a coach did not it was
not the way that you would thinklike, I thought I wanted to be a
(02:10):
vice principal, like I thought Iwanted to be in leadership. Got
my educational leadership degreefrom UVA. And then like, was
like, Okay, this is my pathwhere I'm going. And the more
than I got entrenched in justdifferent leadership
opportunities, meaning like, youknow, helping out leadership or
being like, you know, observing,I think I realized that maybe
(02:31):
this isn't for me, like maybe Iwant I really love curriculum. I
really love instruction. Ireally love mentoring teachers.
And I think you get that inleadership. I think there's just
so much else too. And so thiscoaching job, fell on my lap.
And so I was like, Oh my gosh,and actually, it was in the
midst of me. I was having like,I feel like the highlight of my
(02:54):
teaching career like I love whatI do with teaching first grade
love my kids. And this came inmy lap and I decided to apply
for it. And this is why I tellpeople when they're thinking
about going into like coachinginstructional coaching, do it
when you still love what you do.
Like I tell people that all thetime because I think it makes a
(03:15):
difference. Um and so becauseyou're not coming out like jaded
or anything like that. You haveto love where you're at and love
teaching and then and then gointo that so I got the job,
didn't know what the heck I wasdoing initially, like, what am I
doing what's happening so I readall all the blogs Chrissy, Buzzy
must be helped me out in thecold Turner her stuff out there
(03:36):
helped me out of course, ElenaAguilera her books, like helped
me out and I was like, What ismy like, what is my vision? What
is my core? What do I believe asa coach? Um, and realizing that
it came down to foundational,like, relationships was the
thing. The starting point, likeit's, it's the road, it's the
(03:56):
path and so, yeah, that's myjourney.
Becca Silver (04:01):
Yes, I love this so much. I, uh, you and I
actually have very similar pathsto get to where we are. Yeah, I
was I a family of teachers. Iknew when I was in third grade.
You in? Yeah. Almost every gradelevel? Elementary, so no, that's
(04:23):
great. Um, you know that I justwant to jump into our
conversation. I was recentlypresenting at coach fest, on on
resistance in this sessioncalled breaking through
resistance. And in the middle ofthe session, I'm going to have
all of my coaches and leaderswrite down the number of
teachers they're experiencingresistance looks like, take a
(04:45):
moment they count. You know, alot of times like I feel like my
coaches and leaders lose sleepsometimes over this stuff. It's
like, yeah, get them to move andgrow. Right. And so they wrote
down their number. They resistedme a little bit on the I've done
their number. And I had themlook at their number, and I
(05:05):
said, How many of those teachersyou have a strong relationship
with? And I'm pretty sure thatsound came from the room.
Unknown (05:16):
Yeah, it was quiet. It was like a pin drop.
Becca Silver (05:20):
Yes. And it was you know, and I think about
experiences working witheducators that are grappling a
lot of resistance really comesfrom grappling and fear and
human experiences. Right. And,and here, we are disconnecting
from people that actually needthe most connection many times.
Unknown (05:45):
Part of it is because I feel like we take it personally.
Yes, exactly. And it's, it's notabout you, like when I first
became a coach, and I and youknow, I came a coach 13 years
experience, you know, coming in,felt like it, you know, people
who had like, 16 yearsexperience who had 20,
illustrated, were looking at me,like, what the heck you're gonna
(06:07):
teach me about, about teaching.
And it's so much deeper thanthat. And but at the same time,
I took that personally, youknow, what I mean, which
hindered initially somerelationships with some
teachers, because I was hurt.
And so like, because I wasn'tdealing with my own emotions
about, about or like, emotionsof that I was feeling but also
(06:27):
just feeling lack, right, orfeeling like imposter syndrome,
like maybe, you know, and solike you because of that, I'm
resisting to like, so I'm doingthe same thing.
Becca Silver (06:38):
You're resisting their resistance. And one thing
I say often is what you resistpersists. That's from Carl John.
And it's like, man, we'reactually keeping the resistance
around, and we don't evenrealize it. You know, I think
about the a pattern that I'veseen with coaches, often
coaches, very often, we're oneof the highest achieving
(07:00):
teachers in our schools a lot oftimes, right, and then they
become a coach. And so they'reused to being good at their job,
right and feeling successful.
And I'm sure there's a part ofthem that's like, ah, the I, Hi,
I'm successful, right? Yeah. Andthen, and then go to coaching,
and there's less success. Andthere's, sometimes there's like
continual failure. And that'shard. That's hard to stomach
(07:21):
when you were maybe the bestteacher at your school, or like
just a really high achievingsuccessful teacher, right? And,
and to go into work day afterday, and feel like you're
failing with certain teachersover and over and over again,
Unknown (07:39):
like, first of all, when I became a coach the first
day, I remember calling myhusband on my break and mail and
crying and be like, What did Ido? I don't know, you know,
because it's like, it's amindset shift. You're used to
kids, like the first day ofschool coming into your room,
especially if you're a new coachor leader at a new building,
(08:00):
right? So it's like, I'm theonly one. So you don't really
have a quote unquote, team theretoo. And so I remember that
feeling of like, Did I do theright thing, you know? And then
I also remember the feeling oflike, having my meetings, right.
So let's say get to know memeetings, and I'm like, okay,
(08:22):
get to know me. I want to get toknow y'all. I did it like team
based. And I like had cookiesand candy and like, hey, and I
still left there feeling like,oh, like, haven't gotten them
yet. Like I haven't, like builtthat yet. And it was very
disconnected. I didn't reallylook at it initially. Like if
like resistance initially, Icome in and look at it. Like,
(08:43):
they don't know me. I don't knowthem. I'm new. And I really try.
There were some days that I camehome really upset. But like I
really try to look at it. Like,if I was in their shoes, how
would I feel?
Becca Silver (08:56):
Yeah, I love that.
I love how you stop and you'relike, Okay, if I was in their
shoes, how would I feel? Andthat just gives you so much
access to their humanity.
They're very real experience ofwhat's happening versus like,
they shouldn't be feeling thisway they should like me, right?
And I love that. So I'm curious,what did you do during those
(09:20):
early years to buildrelationships?
Unknown (09:22):
So the first thing is I honored their sacred cow. And so
here's the thing, like anytimeyou go into a space, they have,
like, a community that you'reentering into, so I'm entering
into their community. And Ihonor the fact that I was like,
oh my god, y'all are doing someawesome things like already
doing awesome things. The schoolthat I was at I had a bad rap,
(09:43):
but like, went to the school. Sooh my gosh, you're you're doing
amazing things already insteadthat like I actually said those
things. So like, one I thinkthat helped them to see like,
I'm not here to check to changeyour whole system. Like you're
already doing great things.
Right. Hopefully I can helpsupport you, alongside you and
make it even together make itbetter, right? Not like I know
(10:06):
all the answers, because Iabsolutely don't. But together,
we could do that. And so onething I did is I honored their
sacred cow, like the things thatwere like sacred to their
community like or to who theywere, or their identity or their
their school, you know, identityand core values, I honor that.
And so I think they saw, okay,she's not, she's not here to,
like, undo everything. So thatwas one thing. Another thing I
(10:29):
had to learn is that noteveryone has to teach like me.
And so like, that was a hard onefor me to like grapple with,
because they were doing greatthings just because your
classroom doesn't look or soundor run, the way that I would run
my classroom doesn't mean thatyou're not doing good work. And
that was something that I had tolike appeal that I kind of had
(10:50):
to swallow for myself. And thathelped me to grow as a coach.
And so another thing that I did,I told you, I met with the
teachers like in teams. Once Idid that, I realized I need one
on one, really, when I reallygot to know them, it's like
those one on one meeting. Andlike, getting to know them as a,
like a human being notnecessarily like the teacher
(11:11):
identity that they hold, butlike who, who is Mrs. X, who is
Mrs. or Mr. Y or whatever. Andso like, I really took that time
to put in at the beginning thosethings. And then the last thing
I did, which I think there'smore than just this, but two
more things. The last thing Idid was like I went in their
(11:31):
rooms. And so like I would say,you know, do you mind me going
through classroom and havingsome rounds just to kind of see
how your classrooms run. And Ijust offered up positive
feedback. Nothing else. Like Ididn't, I did not, I was not
criticizing, I was saying, Ilooked in every classroom of
like a couple of things I canhighlight that was like,
amazing, that's happening inhere. One that kind of like, let
them know, okay, she's not hereto like nitpick everything,
(11:54):
although I got to the part wherewe were working together to
like, work through those things.
And then at the beginning,middle, and end of every year,
and I continued this, likethroughout my whole when I was
in the classroom, I mean, inschools, I would give them break
time. So like, I would let themsign up for times where they
(12:14):
can, I can teach their classone, it kept me like kind of
going and making sure that I hadmy teaching stuff going on. And
I would teach their class for 30minutes. And they can do
whatever they wanted to do. Theycould stay in their room, they
can pull kids and doassessments, they can leave and
go to the bathroom and get themcoffee, whatever it was I did at
the beginning of the year, themiddle of the year around
(12:36):
December time, and then I did atthe end of the year.
Becca Silver (12:40):
And how did you notice just break time? Did you
notice that shiftedrelationships with some of your
teachers?
Unknown (12:46):
Oh my gosh, yeah.
Because when they were like,wait 30 like an extra 30
minutes, like an extra? Like,what? And so I was like, Yeah,
I'll be in here for 30 minutes.
And so I think by doing that,that let them know, Hey, I'm
here with you. I see you, Irealize that you need a break.
Becca Silver (13:06):
I love this. I want to loop back to something
you said earlier. And I justlove this phrase, the sacred
cows.
Unknown (13:13):
Yeah. I learned that actually a leadership group that
I was going in, right. And sowhen I was doing this, like this
leadership track, I remember aleader coming in and said, when
you're a new leader, you need tohonor the sacred cows in your
building, period. And it issomething I've always taken with
(13:34):
me when I was doing that.
Becca Silver (13:36):
Yeah. And I, my question for you is, how did you
learn what their sacred cowswere right? It's not, it's
almost not going to come off toyou. Hi, I'm Becca, and my
sacred cows are XYZ Right? Likeyou had to figure it out? Why
did you do that?
Unknown (13:52):
So in conversation with the teachers, I could hear
different things that about theschool like coming out of
school, what do you love aboutschool? Those types of things.
And so those are just ways and,and the way that I did that it
wasn't prescriptive, it was justreally listening.
Becca Silver (14:12):
Thinking about how to listen right? Out of your own
head, right? Have an awarenessfor their experience, not your
experience. And I love that.
Unknown (14:23):
Yeah, I had to listen and those one on ones really
helped with that. And just beingin the classroom with them help
with that with just doing coteaching and modeling for them.
And the more that like, in onething is another thing to once
you have a teacher that you'rereally in relationship with that
teacher is like gold, becausewhat they taught and so like
they're like, oh my god, Anitaand I just did the bomb lesson
(14:48):
plan together. We just modeledthis, um, she modeled it for me
and then me that I've been cotaught together and when they
do, they talk to each other, andthey're like, I want that and
then you and then what happensis it just keeps you We end up
being like overloaded withscheduling because teachers are
like, Okay, I want thatinteractive read aloud lesson. I
want it, we call it reprint thatp but like, it's like
(15:09):
deconstructing the prompt andlike, you know different things
that we that I did. And theywere like, Yo, like the whole
fourth grade team wants you tocome in and model this and co
teach. And so that's whathappened. And so if you're in
relationship with, with oneteacher, they talk teachers
talk, right. And so that's whathappened. And it kind of like,
ripples through. And one thing Iwanted to highlight is that, you
(15:32):
know, and you know thatrelationships take time. Yeah.
And when you leave a communityin which you're in relationship
with so many teachers, and yougo to another community, you
forget that relationships taketime.
Becca Silver (15:47):
And we, you know, you ironically, it's the most
important foundationrelationships, and trust, are
the most important foundation todoing the work that we do, it
takes time, and it will never bea quick fix. We can never
actually want need to need thisto happen now. And relationships
is not the tool for that. It's,it's the long haul. And it's a
(16:08):
slow drip every day, every weekthat we go back over and over
again. Yeah, that actually makesthe difference, you know, for us
to shift our mindsets on, on onthat right? It is on day one, we
are starting to build that andsometimes the relationship gets
built in May. Yeah, like, like,here we are. And we have figured
(16:30):
it out.
Unknown (16:32):
Absolutely. And, you know, when teacher comes to mind
that I feel like ourrelationship went up and down
and around in a circle. Andlike, there was lots of like,
restoring and rebuilding. Andand I think about that teacher
often because I think aboutokay, I always think about like,
How can I done it differently?
Or what could I have donedifferently, and I tried
different things. And all youcan do is what you can do at the
(16:56):
same time. So like, yes, you'rebuilding relationships, and the
person has to also want to openthat door. And, and that doesn't
mean you stop trying. It justmeans they may need some space
is sometimes in relationship,you need space. And so like
that's a whole notherconversation to be had to is
like, you know, knowing whatpeople need and knowing Okay, do
(17:18):
you need me to give you somespace right now? And yeah, and,
and not taking that personallyat the same time that they may
need a little bit of a moment ortwo. And so that's something I
just want to highlight as well.
Becca Silver (17:31):
You said that, you know, you can do the work to be
building a relationship, butthey do have to be open to
building the relationship. Butthere's another thing that you
said that I think goes very handin hand with this, which is you
kept thinking of different waysto try to build relationships so
that you know, we need to holdboth of those together. Right?
(17:54):
And that we don't stop tryingand thinking. Right, right. And
we do acknowledge they do haveto be willing to open the door
to that relationship. Butthey're not mutually exclusive.
We're not just like, passivelylike, I guess. I guess I'm
giving up on this one.
Unknown (18:11):
Yeah, exactly. And there's levels to relationships,
like and so here's the thing,like I didn't come out of like
the school thinking, Oh, nowwe're like bedspread, we're
gonna go get coffee, and we'regonna go hang out. Although
there's some people thatabsolutely I felt that with it,
there's different levels torelationships, right. And so
it's like the level ofexpectation that you may have,
(18:34):
maybe it's like super high whereyou think that yeah, when we
need to go have tea. You don'talways have to. But you have to
be in relationship with someoneenough to, for them to no one I
trust you. I can trust you. Toyour authentic self. Right. And
I can be my authentic self withyou as well. Right. And so those
(18:55):
two things are huge.
Becca Silver (18:57):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I love I love it. It's
like relationships are on acontinuum. There's not an on and
off switch at all. No, I lovethat. And and I want to
highlight what you just saidaround awesome, be
uncomfortable. And I trust Youto be my authentic self.
Something around that when wecan step outside ourselves. We
can feel people being guarded.
And it looks all sorts of ways,right? It's sometimes it looks
(19:21):
like being really nice andhelpful. Or it could you know
it, I mean, it could just looklike I won't make eye contact
and I won't engage you either,right? So being guarded, first
of all can look lots ofdifferent ways. But when we stop
talking and start reallylistening, and being present, we
can start to sense Ooh, they'rebeing guarded. So I think that's
(19:41):
step number one and then stepnumber two, something that I do
is when I'm working to buildtrust and relationships, I am
looking for tiny shifts in theway in their body language. And,
and the way that they speak tome and I think it's so so
conscious that our body isshowing we're not you know, a
(20:02):
lot of times I'm not like, I'mgonna cross my arms now because
I'm feeling guarded. But that isa natural body thing that we do,
right? We like literally want tophysically protect ourselves.
And so I watch for little,little body signals to for to
see when they're starting tolower their guard, are they
(20:23):
making more eye contact? Arethey on crossing their arms? are
they smiling more?
Unknown (20:29):
Right? Yeah, absolutely. That the way you
show up and like, you know,Elena calls it like your way of
being is, is super important.
And the way I show up is superimportant, right? So the way I
show up as the coach to theconversation, so we have to kind
of check ourselves first do ourown self work, before we even
show up to having theseconversations, and being in
relationship with teachers aswell. One thing as you were
(20:50):
talking, that came up for me, solike, the way you show up, the
way you come to, to yourcoaching conversations, the way
you meet with teachers. And Ioften say like, if you're not in
a space, like if you're notthere in a space, take some time
for yourself, I had a principalat one time who was like, when
her door was shut, she washaving a moment. And that means
(21:11):
you just need some space. Yeah,that's such a good point.
Becca Silver (21:16):
And I love how your school leader communicated
that. Like, worst of all, selfawareness is literally one of
the most important skills acoach and a leader can have here
a self awareness, research showsthat. So this leader not only
had self awareness, like not ina healthy frame of mind, but
(21:37):
also the social awareness ofcommunicating that, hey, listen,
when my doors closed, this iswhat's happening. And you know,
and how powerful is that right?
For our community to be aware ofeach other, right? And to know
and to be empowered in, in beingable to step away for a moment
and to have a community thatsupports that?
Unknown (22:00):
Absolutely. So we often talk about when we're building
relationships with like parentsand a community about maybe they
had experiences that maybe gavethem like a bad, like school
gave them a bad taste in theirmouth, right? How was that
different for teachers andeducators? Right. And so when
you have a teacher that has hadall these different experiences,
(22:21):
experiences, with coaches, maybeexperiences with leaders,
experiences, good, maybe somenot so great, maybe even some
traumatic experiences, maybeeven some, like racist
experiences, like, and soyou're, you're, you're meeting a
teacher that has had differentexperiences, that may have put a
bad taste in their mouth. And soyou have to be able to get to a
(22:46):
place to have a safe enoughenvironment and trust where the
person can start to kind oflike, we can kind of get to
those the underneath, right, getto all of that, because that's
where the change happens. Youknow what I mean? And so we can,
you know, we can continue tolike Teach skill and tinting to
tell them, Okay, you know,here's the new thing, new
(23:08):
curriculum or new whatever. Butuntil you get like under the to
that, and we talked about itwith, like parents and
communities, but we forget aboutthe people who are in our
building who also have thoseexperiences.
Becca Silver (23:18):
Yeah, thank you for highlighting that. And
that's part of buildingrelationships. And you said
earlier, you said, you know,it's not personal. And then he
said, Well, maybe sometimes, andI actually assert it's never
ever personal. And this is an Ithink it's what you're just
saying, like we can project, itcan feel deeply personal. They
don't like me, and they're onlydoing this to me, and no one
(23:39):
else. And the reason
Unknown (23:41):
and the reason why I said that was because something
may have occurred, where if
Becca Silver (23:46):
I actually got that, yes. Okay, that makes that
makes sense. Yes. So that hurtyou or broke your trust.
Unknown (23:55):
And I and I've done that before as a coach, and I
had to kind of like, I had torepair, you know, so that's why
I said that, because there aretime, because no one's perfect.
Right? Yeah. You have to repairthat you have Yeah,
Becca Silver (24:12):
yeah. I love that.
I love that you said that. AndI'd love that we looped back
around. You know, for thatclarity. And, and it's so
important that we restore anddon't step over. Often I'm going
into schools working withcoaches and leaders, and I see
that they have broken trust byaccident in the past and just
step over it. And then do youknow, the teacher should be
(24:35):
focusing on the blah, blah,blah, right? When in fact, like
multiple times, the coach willhave promised to come into the
teacher's classroom and don'tshow up. And yeah, because they
got pulled into an emergencymeeting right like something
really happened for the coachbut what they don't really
operate or you know, principleleader right. What they don't
realize is when they break theirword for example, that is a way
(24:57):
of the Finishing trust, that itdoesn't matter why it really
doesn't. It's it's we have to goand repair that we said we do
something and we didn't do it.
And I love that you highlightedthat really important thing with
relationships. When we breaktrust, break our word, when we
(25:20):
do something to damage thatrelationship, we need to turn
around and repair it. So thishas been such a fun conversation
for me to like, hear yourexperiences for us to share with
each other around buildingrelationships. It is nuanced. It
is not linear. There's no stepby step right guide. But I
really appreciate your sharingyour expertise around this with
(25:42):
the folks listening. And I'dlove you to share where can they
find you.
Unknown (25:47):
Great, thank you for that. But I really enjoyed the
conversation as well. Um, theycould find me love teach bliss,
everywhere. I mean, like, I'm onInstagram, Twitter, and also on
Facebook, Anita Creekmore onLinkedIn. And then me and my
husband also have Creekmorecombo, which we have a book all
about building relationshipscoming out with ASCD very soon.
(26:09):
And so we're super excited aboutthat. So they will be able to
see that on all those differentplatforms. We would love to
connect with any of your folksoutside of this space. And I
appreciate you having me. Yes,absolutely.
Becca Silver (26:22):
I'll put all those links in the show notes. So it's
easy for people to access youand just thank you again for
being here with us.
Unknown (26:28):
Thank you Becca.
Hello, hello, hello coaches and leaders. I am
so excited to have AnitaCreekmore on she works with
Elena Aguilar and also has herown consultancy. And I am so
excited to hear all of herexpertise around very
specifically building adultrelationships. Today we're gonna
(00:22):
have a really interesting kindof windy conversation about
relationships. And I feel likeit actually mirrors our
relationships. Oh, it's kind ofwindy up and down and around.
But I am clearly very passionateabout relationships. And so
we're going to kind of just talkabout the nature of them today,
(00:43):
how to build them and anythingelse that comes up in this
conversation. So welcome, Anita.
Unknown (00:49):
Thank you for having me, Becca. I'm so happy to be on
here. And finally get to chatwith you about this.
Becca Silver (00:55):
Yes, yeah. So we've been talking about this
for a while. Do you just want toquickly share with the listeners
what has been your journey ineducation?
Unknown (01:04):
Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh, it's been a windy journey. You
were saying the word windy. ButI and I know this sounds like
though, like everyone says this,but I really knew I wanted to be
a teacher at like age 12 or 13.
My mother was a teacher. She wasa PE teacher. And I thought it
was because she's retired nowfor 40 years. And so I think
because my life was entwined inlike the school system and like
(01:28):
being dragged to this afterschool activity or this camp she
decided to do or whatever I wentto University of South Carolina
Gamecocks erotica, the final forwomen's basketball. And so I had
to plug there. And so I went touniversity, South Carolina. And
I studied education there. Itwas a minor I majored in
English. And then I went to getmy Master's because they had a
(01:50):
five year program came out, Itaught for 13 years, all
elementary. So I taught firstgrade, second grade, fifth
grade, dabbled a little bit inthird and fourth. And then I
became a coach. And the path tobecoming a coach did not it was
not the way that you would thinklike, I thought I wanted to be a
(02:10):
vice principal, like I thought Iwanted to be in leadership. Got
my educational leadership degreefrom UVA. And then like, was
like, Okay, this is my pathwhere I'm going. And the more
than I got entrenched in justdifferent leadership
opportunities, meaning like, youknow, helping out leadership or
being like, you know, observing,I think I realized that maybe
(02:31):
this isn't for me, like maybe Iwant I really love curriculum. I
really love instruction. Ireally love mentoring teachers.
And I think you get that inleadership. I think there's just
so much else too. And so thiscoaching job, fell on my lap.
And so I was like, Oh my gosh,and actually, it was in the
midst of me. I was having like,I feel like the highlight of my
(02:54):
teaching career like I love whatI do with teaching first grade
love my kids. And this came inmy lap and I decided to apply
for it. And this is why I tellpeople when they're thinking
about going into like coachinginstructional coaching, do it
when you still love what you do.
Like I tell people that all thetime because I think it makes a
(03:15):
difference. Um and so becauseyou're not coming out like jaded
or anything like that. You haveto love where you're at and love
teaching and then and then gointo that so I got the job,
didn't know what the heck I wasdoing initially, like, what am I
doing what's happening so I readall all the blogs Chrissy, Buzzy
must be helped me out in thecold Turner her stuff out there
(03:36):
helped me out of course, ElenaAguilera her books, like helped
me out and I was like, What ismy like, what is my vision? What
is my core? What do I believe asa coach? Um, and realizing that
it came down to foundational,like, relationships was the
thing. The starting point, likeit's, it's the road, it's the
(03:56):
path and so, yeah, that's myjourney.
Becca Silver (04:01):
Yes, I love this so much. I, uh, you and I
actually have very similar pathsto get to where we are. Yeah, I
was I a family of teachers. Iknew when I was in third grade.
You in? Yeah. Almost every gradelevel? Elementary, so no, that's
(04:23):
great. Um, you know that I justwant to jump into our
conversation. I was recentlypresenting at coach fest, on on
resistance in this sessioncalled breaking through
resistance. And in the middle ofthe session, I'm going to have
all of my coaches and leaderswrite down the number of
teachers they're experiencingresistance looks like, take a
(04:45):
moment they count. You know, alot of times like I feel like my
coaches and leaders lose sleepsometimes over this stuff. It's
like, yeah, get them to move andgrow. Right. And so they wrote
down their number. They resistedme a little bit on the I've done
their number. And I had themlook at their number, and I
(05:05):
said, How many of those teachersyou have a strong relationship
with? And I'm pretty sure thatsound came from the room.
Unknown (05:16):
Yeah, it was quiet. It was like a pin drop.
Becca Silver (05:20):
Yes. And it was you know, and I think about
experiences working witheducators that are grappling a
lot of resistance really comesfrom grappling and fear and
human experiences. Right. And,and here, we are disconnecting
from people that actually needthe most connection many times.
Unknown (05:45):
Part of it is because I feel like we take it personally.
Yes, exactly. And it's, it's notabout you, like when I first
became a coach, and I and youknow, I came a coach 13 years
experience, you know, coming in,felt like it, you know, people
who had like, 16 yearsexperience who had 20,
illustrated, were looking at me,like, what the heck you're gonna
(06:07):
teach me about, about teaching.
And it's so much deeper thanthat. And but at the same time,
I took that personally, youknow, what I mean, which
hindered initially somerelationships with some
teachers, because I was hurt.
And so like, because I wasn'tdealing with my own emotions
about, about or like, emotionsof that I was feeling but also
(06:27):
just feeling lack, right, orfeeling like imposter syndrome,
like maybe, you know, and solike you because of that, I'm
resisting to like, so I'm doingthe same thing.
Becca Silver (06:38):
You're resisting their resistance. And one thing
I say often is what you resistpersists. That's from Carl John.
And it's like, man, we'reactually keeping the resistance
around, and we don't evenrealize it. You know, I think
about the a pattern that I'veseen with coaches, often
coaches, very often, we're oneof the highest achieving
(07:00):
teachers in our schools a lot oftimes, right, and then they
become a coach. And so they'reused to being good at their job,
right and feeling successful.
And I'm sure there's a part ofthem that's like, ah, the I, Hi,
I'm successful, right? Yeah. Andthen, and then go to coaching,
and there's less success. Andthere's, sometimes there's like
continual failure. And that'shard. That's hard to stomach
(07:21):
when you were maybe the bestteacher at your school, or like
just a really high achievingsuccessful teacher, right? And,
and to go into work day afterday, and feel like you're
failing with certain teachersover and over and over again,
Unknown (07:39):
like, first of all, when I became a coach the first
day, I remember calling myhusband on my break and mail and
crying and be like, What did Ido? I don't know, you know,
because it's like, it's amindset shift. You're used to
kids, like the first day ofschool coming into your room,
especially if you're a new coachor leader at a new building,
(08:00):
right? So it's like, I'm theonly one. So you don't really
have a quote unquote, team theretoo. And so I remember that
feeling of like, Did I do theright thing, you know? And then
I also remember the feeling oflike, having my meetings, right.
So let's say get to know memeetings, and I'm like, okay,
(08:22):
get to know me. I want to get toknow y'all. I did it like team
based. And I like had cookiesand candy and like, hey, and I
still left there feeling like,oh, like, haven't gotten them
yet. Like I haven't, like builtthat yet. And it was very
disconnected. I didn't reallylook at it initially. Like if
like resistance initially, Icome in and look at it. Like,
(08:43):
they don't know me. I don't knowthem. I'm new. And I really try.
There were some days that I camehome really upset. But like I
really try to look at it. Like,if I was in their shoes, how
would I feel?
Becca Silver (08:56):
Yeah, I love that.
I love how you stop and you'relike, Okay, if I was in their
shoes, how would I feel? Andthat just gives you so much
access to their humanity.
They're very real experience ofwhat's happening versus like,
they shouldn't be feeling thisway they should like me, right?
And I love that. So I'm curious,what did you do during those
(09:20):
early years to buildrelationships?
Unknown (09:22):
So the first thing is I honored their sacred cow. And so
here's the thing, like anytimeyou go into a space, they have,
like, a community that you'reentering into, so I'm entering
into their community. And Ihonor the fact that I was like,
oh my god, y'all are doing someawesome things like already
doing awesome things. The schoolthat I was at I had a bad rap,
(09:43):
but like, went to the school. Sooh my gosh, you're you're doing
amazing things already insteadthat like I actually said those
things. So like, one I thinkthat helped them to see like,
I'm not here to check to changeyour whole system. Like you're
already doing great things.
Right. Hopefully I can helpsupport you, alongside you and
make it even together make itbetter, right? Not like I know
(10:06):
all the answers, because Iabsolutely don't. But together,
we could do that. And so onething I did is I honored their
sacred cow, like the things thatwere like sacred to their
community like or to who theywere, or their identity or their
their school, you know, identityand core values, I honor that.
And so I think they saw, okay,she's not, she's not here to,
like, undo everything. So thatwas one thing. Another thing I
(10:29):
had to learn is that noteveryone has to teach like me.
And so like, that was a hard onefor me to like grapple with,
because they were doing greatthings just because your
classroom doesn't look or soundor run, the way that I would run
my classroom doesn't mean thatyou're not doing good work. And
that was something that I had tolike appeal that I kind of had
(10:50):
to swallow for myself. And thathelped me to grow as a coach.
And so another thing that I did,I told you, I met with the
teachers like in teams. Once Idid that, I realized I need one
on one, really, when I reallygot to know them, it's like
those one on one meeting. Andlike, getting to know them as a,
like a human being notnecessarily like the teacher
(11:11):
identity that they hold, butlike who, who is Mrs. X, who is
Mrs. or Mr. Y or whatever. Andso like, I really took that time
to put in at the beginning thosethings. And then the last thing
I did, which I think there'smore than just this, but two
more things. The last thing Idid was like I went in their
(11:31):
rooms. And so like I would say,you know, do you mind me going
through classroom and havingsome rounds just to kind of see
how your classrooms run. And Ijust offered up positive
feedback. Nothing else. Like Ididn't, I did not, I was not
criticizing, I was saying, Ilooked in every classroom of
like a couple of things I canhighlight that was like,
amazing, that's happening inhere. One that kind of like, let
them know, okay, she's not hereto like nitpick everything,
(11:54):
although I got to the part wherewe were working together to
like, work through those things.
And then at the beginning,middle, and end of every year,
and I continued this, likethroughout my whole when I was
in the classroom, I mean, inschools, I would give them break
time. So like, I would let themsign up for times where they
(12:14):
can, I can teach their classone, it kept me like kind of
going and making sure that I hadmy teaching stuff going on. And
I would teach their class for 30minutes. And they can do
whatever they wanted to do. Theycould stay in their room, they
can pull kids and doassessments, they can leave and
go to the bathroom and get themcoffee, whatever it was I did at
the beginning of the year, themiddle of the year around
(12:36):
December time, and then I did atthe end of the year.
Becca Silver (12:40):
And how did you notice just break time? Did you
notice that shiftedrelationships with some of your
teachers?
Unknown (12:46):
Oh my gosh, yeah.
Because when they were like,wait 30 like an extra 30
minutes, like an extra? Like,what? And so I was like, Yeah,
I'll be in here for 30 minutes.
And so I think by doing that,that let them know, Hey, I'm
here with you. I see you, Irealize that you need a break.
Becca Silver (13:06):
I love this. I want to loop back to something
you said earlier. And I justlove this phrase, the sacred
cows.
Unknown (13:13):
Yeah. I learned that actually a leadership group that
I was going in, right. And sowhen I was doing this, like this
leadership track, I remember aleader coming in and said, when
you're a new leader, you need tohonor the sacred cows in your
building, period. And it issomething I've always taken with
(13:34):
me when I was doing that.
Becca Silver (13:36):
Yeah. And I, my question for you is, how did you
learn what their sacred cowswere right? It's not, it's
almost not going to come off toyou. Hi, I'm Becca, and my
sacred cows are XYZ Right? Likeyou had to figure it out? Why
did you do that?
Unknown (13:52):
So in conversation with the teachers, I could hear
different things that about theschool like coming out of
school, what do you love aboutschool? Those types of things.
And so those are just ways and,and the way that I did that it
wasn't prescriptive, it was justreally listening.
Becca Silver (14:12):
Thinking about how to listen right? Out of your own
head, right? Have an awarenessfor their experience, not your
experience. And I love that.
Unknown (14:23):
Yeah, I had to listen and those one on ones really
helped with that. And just beingin the classroom with them help
with that with just doing coteaching and modeling for them.
And the more that like, in onething is another thing to once
you have a teacher that you'rereally in relationship with that
teacher is like gold, becausewhat they taught and so like
they're like, oh my god, Anitaand I just did the bomb lesson
(14:48):
plan together. We just modeledthis, um, she modeled it for me
and then me that I've been cotaught together and when they
do, they talk to each other, andthey're like, I want that and
then you and then what happensis it just keeps you We end up
being like overloaded withscheduling because teachers are
like, Okay, I want thatinteractive read aloud lesson. I
want it, we call it reprint thatp but like, it's like
(15:09):
deconstructing the prompt andlike, you know different things
that we that I did. And theywere like, Yo, like the whole
fourth grade team wants you tocome in and model this and co
teach. And so that's whathappened. And so if you're in
relationship with, with oneteacher, they talk teachers
talk, right. And so that's whathappened. And it kind of like,
ripples through. And one thing Iwanted to highlight is that, you
(15:32):
know, and you know thatrelationships take time. Yeah.
And when you leave a communityin which you're in relationship
with so many teachers, and yougo to another community, you
forget that relationships taketime.
Becca Silver (15:47):
And we, you know, you ironically, it's the most
important foundationrelationships, and trust, are
the most important foundation todoing the work that we do, it
takes time, and it will never bea quick fix. We can never
actually want need to need thisto happen now. And relationships
is not the tool for that. It's,it's the long haul. And it's a
(16:08):
slow drip every day, every weekthat we go back over and over
again. Yeah, that actually makesthe difference, you know, for us
to shift our mindsets on, on onthat right? It is on day one, we
are starting to build that andsometimes the relationship gets
built in May. Yeah, like, like,here we are. And we have figured
(16:30):
it out.
Unknown (16:32):
Absolutely. And, you know, when teacher comes to mind
that I feel like ourrelationship went up and down
and around in a circle. Andlike, there was lots of like,
restoring and rebuilding. Andand I think about that teacher
often because I think aboutokay, I always think about like,
How can I done it differently?
Or what could I have donedifferently, and I tried
different things. And all youcan do is what you can do at the
(16:56):
same time. So like, yes, you'rebuilding relationships, and the
person has to also want to openthat door. And, and that doesn't
mean you stop trying. It justmeans they may need some space
is sometimes in relationship,you need space. And so like
that's a whole notherconversation to be had to is
like, you know, knowing whatpeople need and knowing Okay, do
(17:18):
you need me to give you somespace right now? And yeah, and,
and not taking that personallyat the same time that they may
need a little bit of a moment ortwo. And so that's something I
just want to highlight as well.
Becca Silver (17:31):
You said that, you know, you can do the work to be
building a relationship, butthey do have to be open to
building the relationship. Butthere's another thing that you
said that I think goes very handin hand with this, which is you
kept thinking of different waysto try to build relationships so
that you know, we need to holdboth of those together. Right?
(17:54):
And that we don't stop tryingand thinking. Right, right. And
we do acknowledge they do haveto be willing to open the door
to that relationship. Butthey're not mutually exclusive.
We're not just like, passivelylike, I guess. I guess I'm
giving up on this one.
Unknown (18:11):
Yeah, exactly. And there's levels to relationships,
like and so here's the thing,like I didn't come out of like
the school thinking, Oh, nowwe're like bedspread, we're
gonna go get coffee, and we'regonna go hang out. Although
there's some people thatabsolutely I felt that with it,
there's different levels torelationships, right. And so
it's like the level ofexpectation that you may have,
(18:34):
maybe it's like super high whereyou think that yeah, when we
need to go have tea. You don'talways have to. But you have to
be in relationship with someoneenough to, for them to no one I
trust you. I can trust you. Toyour authentic self. Right. And
I can be my authentic self withyou as well. Right. And so those
(18:55):
two things are huge.
Becca Silver (18:57):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I love I love it. It's
like relationships are on acontinuum. There's not an on and
off switch at all. No, I lovethat. And and I want to
highlight what you just saidaround awesome, be
uncomfortable. And I trust Youto be my authentic self.
Something around that when wecan step outside ourselves. We
can feel people being guarded.
And it looks all sorts of ways,right? It's sometimes it looks
(19:21):
like being really nice andhelpful. Or it could you know
it, I mean, it could just looklike I won't make eye contact
and I won't engage you either,right? So being guarded, first
of all can look lots ofdifferent ways. But when we stop
talking and start reallylistening, and being present, we
can start to sense Ooh, they'rebeing guarded. So I think that's
(19:41):
step number one and then stepnumber two, something that I do
is when I'm working to buildtrust and relationships, I am
looking for tiny shifts in theway in their body language. And,
and the way that they speak tome and I think it's so so
conscious that our body isshowing we're not you know, a
(20:02):
lot of times I'm not like, I'mgonna cross my arms now because
I'm feeling guarded. But that isa natural body thing that we do,
right? We like literally want tophysically protect ourselves.
And so I watch for little,little body signals to for to
see when they're starting tolower their guard, are they
(20:23):
making more eye contact? Arethey on crossing their arms? are
they smiling more?
Unknown (20:29):
Right? Yeah, absolutely. That the way you
show up and like, you know,Elena calls it like your way of
being is, is super important.
And the way I show up is superimportant, right? So the way I
show up as the coach to theconversation, so we have to kind
of check ourselves first do ourown self work, before we even
show up to having theseconversations, and being in
relationship with teachers aswell. One thing as you were
(20:50):
talking, that came up for me, solike, the way you show up, the
way you come to, to yourcoaching conversations, the way
you meet with teachers. And Ioften say like, if you're not in
a space, like if you're notthere in a space, take some time
for yourself, I had a principalat one time who was like, when
her door was shut, she washaving a moment. And that means
(21:11):
you just need some space. Yeah,that's such a good point.
Becca Silver (21:16):
And I love how your school leader communicated
that. Like, worst of all, selfawareness is literally one of
the most important skills acoach and a leader can have here
a self awareness, research showsthat. So this leader not only
had self awareness, like not ina healthy frame of mind, but
(21:37):
also the social awareness ofcommunicating that, hey, listen,
when my doors closed, this iswhat's happening. And you know,
and how powerful is that right?
For our community to be aware ofeach other, right? And to know
and to be empowered in, in beingable to step away for a moment
and to have a community thatsupports that?
Unknown (22:00):
Absolutely. So we often talk about when we're building
relationships with like parentsand a community about maybe they
had experiences that maybe gavethem like a bad, like school
gave them a bad taste in theirmouth, right? How was that
different for teachers andeducators? Right. And so when
you have a teacher that has hadall these different experiences,
(22:21):
experiences, with coaches, maybeexperiences with leaders,
experiences, good, maybe somenot so great, maybe even some
traumatic experiences, maybeeven some, like racist
experiences, like, and soyou're, you're, you're meeting a
teacher that has had differentexperiences, that may have put a
bad taste in their mouth. And soyou have to be able to get to a
(22:46):
place to have a safe enoughenvironment and trust where the
person can start to kind oflike, we can kind of get to
those the underneath, right, getto all of that, because that's
where the change happens. Youknow what I mean? And so we can,
you know, we can continue tolike Teach skill and tinting to
tell them, Okay, you know,here's the new thing, new
(23:08):
curriculum or new whatever. Butuntil you get like under the to
that, and we talked about itwith, like parents and
communities, but we forget aboutthe people who are in our
building who also have thoseexperiences.
Becca Silver (23:18):
Yeah, thank you for highlighting that. And
that's part of buildingrelationships. And you said
earlier, you said, you know,it's not personal. And then he
said, Well, maybe sometimes, andI actually assert it's never
ever personal. And this is an Ithink it's what you're just
saying, like we can project, itcan feel deeply personal. They
don't like me, and they're onlydoing this to me, and no one
(23:39):
else. And the reason
Unknown (23:41):
and the reason why I said that was because something
may have occurred, where if
Becca Silver (23:46):
I actually got that, yes. Okay, that makes that
makes sense. Yes. So that hurtyou or broke your trust.
Unknown (23:55):
And I and I've done that before as a coach, and I
had to kind of like, I had torepair, you know, so that's why
I said that, because there aretime, because no one's perfect.
Right? Yeah. You have to repairthat you have Yeah,
Becca Silver (24:12):
yeah. I love that.
I love that you said that. AndI'd love that we looped back
around. You know, for thatclarity. And, and it's so
important that we restore anddon't step over. Often I'm going
into schools working withcoaches and leaders, and I see
that they have broken trust byaccident in the past and just
step over it. And then do youknow, the teacher should be
(24:35):
focusing on the blah, blah,blah, right? When in fact, like
multiple times, the coach willhave promised to come into the
teacher's classroom and don'tshow up. And yeah, because they
got pulled into an emergencymeeting right like something
really happened for the coachbut what they don't really
operate or you know, principleleader right. What they don't
realize is when they break theirword for example, that is a way
(24:57):
of the Finishing trust, that itdoesn't matter why it really
doesn't. It's it's we have to goand repair that we said we do
something and we didn't do it.
And I love that you highlightedthat really important thing with
relationships. When we breaktrust, break our word, when we
(25:20):
do something to damage thatrelationship, we need to turn
around and repair it. So thishas been such a fun conversation
for me to like, hear yourexperiences for us to share with
each other around buildingrelationships. It is nuanced. It
is not linear. There's no stepby step right guide. But I
really appreciate your sharingyour expertise around this with
(25:42):
the folks listening. And I'dlove you to share where can they
find you.
Unknown (25:47):
Great, thank you for that. But I really enjoyed the
conversation as well. Um, theycould find me love teach bliss,
everywhere. I mean, like, I'm onInstagram, Twitter, and also on
Facebook, Anita Creekmore onLinkedIn. And then me and my
husband also have Creekmorecombo, which we have a book all
about building relationshipscoming out with ASCD very soon.
(26:09):
And so we're super excited aboutthat. So they will be able to
see that on all those differentplatforms. We would love to
connect with any of your folksoutside of this space. And I
appreciate you having me. Yes,absolutely.
Becca Silver (26:22):
I'll put all those links in the show notes. So it's
easy for people to access youand just thank you again for
being here with us.
Unknown (26:28):
Thank you Becca.
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