April 11, 2024 • 28 mins
When Charles sat down with us, his voice carried the weight of a journey through heartache and healing; he spoke of the struggle to break free from the chains of generational curses and the redemptive power of open, honest family dialogue. His narrative unfolds through missed connections with father figures and a tumultuous road through marriage difficulties, divorce, and the hard-won path to reconciliation. Charles's story is more than a personal testament; it's a beacon for anyone fighting to forge a different path, underpinned by the discovery of spiritual solace and the courage to confront the past head-on.
This episode takes us into the intimate corners of marriage counseling and the art of communication, where Charles and I unearth the transformative effect of professional guidance and the unexpected wisdom found in couples counseling each other. He shares how the support of family and friends, alongside regular relationship check-ins, became a lifeline in his marriage. If you've ever wondered about the ripple effects of parental conflict or how financial unity and shared interests can reinforce a partnership, let Charles's experiences offer insights and hope for creating a lasting, loving bond.
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Episode Transcript
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"Charles" (00:00):
So again it's breaking that generational curse
.
Dr Bola Sogade (00:23):
Hello and welcome back to CocoaPods
podcast.
My name is Dr Bola Sogade, I'ma women's health specialist and
I'm your host, so we continue inthese conversations about
difficult relationships.
Please keep listening toCocoaPods podcast, thank you.
So we continue our discussionswith Charles.
"Charles" (00:44):
So that bond between me and my dad, it wasn't.
Now I can talk to him as we gotolder, but then, like I said, I
just feel he was never there.
So, yeah, I just didn't havethat bond with my dad.
I chose to go and talk tocousins and my cousins they was
(01:11):
single and plus Seeing what theydo.
Like I said, it's just thatmodel.
It's just that model mygranddad passed when I was 18.
I know, if my granddad was here, I would have listened to my
granddad because he probablywould have whooped me with his
(01:37):
cap, but I would have listenedto him because I was very close
with my granddad, my grandmotherand my granddad.
I was very close with mygrandmother and granddad.
My grandmother and granddadwere still married as well, so I
was very close to them.
Like I said, that generationalcurse, I wish I could have broke
(02:01):
that earlier than now.
I wish I should have.
I could have broke that earlierthan now.
I wish I should have, I couldhave.
But that modeling, thatmodeling was everything for me
and I just couldn't break thatmold.
It's like once you got thatmodel on you, it's hard to get
that model off your back.
Dr Bola Sogade (02:22):
Wow, so you are breaking a generational curse.
That's right.
Wow, Now you guys have a veryunique situation because I see a
lot of women every day in thatyou went through all of this.
I think your wife said youactually got divorced like
(02:45):
officially.
"Charles" (02:47):
Yes, yes.
Dr Bola Sogade (02:48):
But you're together now, you guys are
happier.
And she talked about justfeeling shame, you know, and
like, oh my goodness, what willher friends say?
What will her family say?
She's divorced.
And she just felt shame.
I mean, what were you feelingduring this period of all of
(03:09):
this?
"Charles" (03:12):
I was embarrassed as well, but I was ashamed.
I said all the shame part comesfrom me hurting her.
I couldn't face a lot of myfamily members and everyone
knows what happened and Iunderstand she's I mean her
(03:38):
shame.
I understand that.
But I had people rooting At thetime I found out I had people
rooting for our divorce so andthat was some family members.
So I was like, wow, for hisfamily.
I thought family would come tome.
(03:59):
You know, hey, you know you wasmessing up.
You know, get yourself together.
I didn't have that.
I didn't have that.
I have a close friend, a buddyof mine.
That's like my brother.
He called me, my biologicalbrother, he called me and I had
(04:24):
one cousin that was calling meand telling me you know, hey, we
all mess up, but it's what youdo afterwards.
You know, if y'all going todivorce, divorce in a good state
of mind, don't divorce in aconflict situation.
And I was telling like I toldhim, I said, man, I don't want a
(04:46):
divorce.
So and my brother, he was like,well, what you going to do to
fix it?
And my cousin, he told me, hesaid this is going to be the
hardest part of your marriage istrying to make this thing work.
He said, man, it's those whochoose to fight and those that
(05:09):
choose not to, you choosing notto.
So he said because fight?
He said, man, I don't want tosee y'all divorced because
that's your light, she is yourlight.
Don't let that light go dark.
So I love my cousin for that.
(05:32):
He's a good guy, a great guy,and I took that.
He's actually younger than me,so I took that and I ran with it
.
My mom, like I said, my mom anddad still married.
My grandmother, my granddad,still married.
(05:54):
How would it?
No, I'm not getting a divorce,I'm going to choose to fight.
And I ended up talking to mydad about the whole situation
and he was like I've been thereand done that.
So I feel if I would have hadthat talk with my dad earlier, I
(06:18):
wonder that we never would havebeen through this whole
situation.
I didn't, like I said, I didn'thave that talk with my dad.
I didn't have that.
I talked to everyone elsebesides my dad and I just felt I
should have talked to my dadbefore I went to everyone else.
But over the years I never hadthat bond with my dad like that,
(06:42):
so I always had other people totry to call, but my cousins,
like I said, I talked to themevery day and he always told me
you know, I'm going to call you.
Yeah, he told me literally andhe did it.
He called me every day.
(07:03):
What you did today, cuz, and Ibroke him down, walked him down
with everything I done.
He said, cuz, sometimes you gotto do a little bit more,
because now you got to gain herattention back, y'all was going
to get a divorce.
That means a divorce.
It was over, there was nofixing.
(07:24):
So now you're trying to fix it,you're trying to fix your
marriage.
He said, man, you can't havestuff.
You got to go all the way, yougot to kick the doors in.
So, and that's what I chose todo, I chose to stay in, I chose
(07:44):
to fight Like to stay in.
I chose to fight, like I said,still to now, I still have
family members that still wantus divorced, but I'm not gonna
give them that.
I'm sure that God can work inmysterious ways and I am a
changed man and I choose to walkin the way that God want me to
go.
So, and by me walking in thatway, I'm choosing to walk in the
way that God wants me to go.
(08:05):
So, and by me walking in thatway, I'm choosing to walk with
my wife.
So we're going to fight to theend.
Dr Bola Sogade (08:14):
Wow, I love your choice of words.
You know fighting.
I just want to go to the pain.
The provider she talked abouthow you know, if you messed up,
you would, you know, shower herwith gifts and then she would
forget?
I mean, did you feel was thathelping your ego?
Did you feel there's somethingwe talk about, the God complex.
Did you feel like you know I'm.
(08:35):
You know I'm the man.
I'm going to provide everything.
I'm like God to this woman.
"Charles" (08:41):
You know, because I was doing that.
Like I said, it's mentality howI was raised.
I was doing that because my dadthat's one thing my dad always
told me.
Regardless of what be aprovider, gifts always change a
(09:03):
woman's mind.
Gifts, I always change awoman's mind, and so I used to
watch my dad buy my mom flowers.
I used to watch my dad whenhe's over the road.
He always come back withsomething for my mom.
I never asked questions to mydad, but so that's what I seen.
(09:25):
So I was like, okay, I'm gonnatake that and I'm gonna fly it.
So when me and her got togetheroh man, think, what a weekend I
just started buying anything.
I just got to the point I juststarted giving her anything.
I just got to the point I juststarted giving her my credit
card.
As we got older, I startedbuying her jewelry.
(09:50):
I always order clothes.
I show her you like this.
I order some clothes for her.
I order some shoes for her cars, and I know that'll keep a
smile on her face Through it all.
She can be embarrassed abouteverything.
But I feel, with a gift wherepeople can look at it, they can
(10:16):
say what they want, but at thesame time, this gift that's
making up for me, because I knowI did a lot of wrong in our
marriage and I'm not trying tobuy a gift to make her forget.
(10:41):
I'm buying gifts because shedeserves it.
You know, I'm not saying thatbuying gifts erase all
everything that I've done, butyou know I want her.
If she's going to walk outthere and be shamed, she's going
to look good doing it so andthat's where the whole gift
(11:03):
thing is coming from.
I'm a giffer regardless.
I'm a giffer at heart andthat's what I stand on.
Dr Bola Sogade (11:11):
Did that make you feel like how did that, what
did that do to you?
"Charles" (11:15):
It's an ego.
It's an ego If she leave metoday.
I always told her.
I said if you leave me today.
I said I don't think it wouldbe hard to find a man that would
do that, that would buy yougifts before he buy himself a
gift.
That's just how I looked at it.
That's how I always thought ofit.
I said my goal is to make ithard for the next man.
(11:39):
He got to be 10 times betterthan me.
Wow, that's how I see it.
I'm going to make it hard forthe next man.
Dr Bola Sogade (11:56):
Now let me ask you if this had been reversed,
like if she had been the onethat you know, stepped out of
the marriage and got withanother man that gave her more,
for instance how would you havereacted to that?
"Charles" (12:11):
Oh man.
And she asked me that beforeand I told her.
Dr Bola Sogade (12:27):
I said oh man, I got to go work some more.
But would you be angry?
I mean, would you be jealous?
I?
"Charles" (12:31):
would be jealous, I would be jealous.
See, no, I don't have a jealousbone in my body, but at that I
would have been jealous.
Be jealous.
So you know, I don't have ajealous bone in my body, but at
that I would have been jealous,very jealous.
It would have made me step itup even more.
Instead of buying smallerthings, I probably would have
(12:53):
went bigger.
I would have went bigger.
Probably, oh man, I would havebeen broke.
I'll tell you that much,because now it feels like we're
in competition.
So yeah, oh man, I don't thinkabout it.
But yeah, if she would have, Imean, whoever she choose, I
(13:21):
still would have been happy withit, but I would have fought, I
would have made it hard for her.
Like I said, I know he's doingit, but I already have a heart.
So the competing part I wasn'tworried about.
I know who she was going to bewith.
(13:42):
So that's a confident thing forme.
Like I said, another thing myego.
I have a big ego where I feelthere's no other man that could
compete with me with her love.
He can buy her this, buy herthat and buy her this, but he
(14:06):
don't have a heart.
I have a heart and I'm notgoing to let that heart go.
So I'm going to applaud her, butI know she's not going to stick
with him because of those gifts.
You can shower someone withgifts, but you can't shower with
(14:28):
love.
Like I said, I had her love, Ihad her heart.
He doesn't.
So that would have made it alittle bit more easier for me,
because I know she loves me andshe'll never, no matter what,
(14:50):
we're going to always love eachother, but I wasn't worried
about another man though.
Dr Bola Sogade (14:55):
Wow it's funny how the men are not worried
about another man, though.
Wow, it's funny how the men arenot worried about another man,
but then the women are worriedabout another woman.
That is crazy.
But let me ask you, if there'sa young couple at that stage
(15:15):
where you guys were young couple, at that stage where you guys
were, you know, with the arguingstage at this day and age, what
would you recommend that theydo so that it doesn't, you know,
escalate down to beingseparated, being divorced?
What can they put in place?
Now, you know, once they seethat they're arguing all the
time, they can't get along.
(15:37):
They don't seem to be able tostand each other.
"Charles" (15:41):
I feel they should come together and talk.
Dr Bola Sogade (15:44):
But they can't stand each other.
They're not seeing eye to eye.
"Charles" (15:49):
They have to put their differences aside,
especially if they have kids.
You have to put differencesaside to be able to talk as an
adult, because arguing, you see,it's not getting nowhere
arguing.
So someone had to be the matureone to okay.
(16:10):
Okay, let's do this, take it adifferent approach Because, like
I said, with the clashing,it'll never work.
It'll never work because I'm madat them for doing this, I'm mad
at him for doing this and she'smad at him for doing this and
(16:32):
he's mad at her for this, andthey're going to always argue
Always.
You did this back then.
You did this back then.
Dr Bola Sogade (16:42):
That sounds like the woman they're the ones that
I remember all the way back,yeah.
"Charles" (16:46):
And you know you have some men that try to throw
shade as well.
But throwing shade only stir upthe fire.
It don't put the fire out,because now she's trying to
outdo him.
Well, you remember you did thisand this I said it never works.
(17:06):
So I feel marriage counselingworks, but you got to give it
100%.
Dr Bola Sogade (17:16):
You have to be 100% honest.
"Charles" (17:19):
Honesty goes a long way.
You have a lot of men.
That's not honest and you havesome females.
That's not honest.
Honesty goes a long way.
In a marriage you respect eachother more, but you just have to
try to work it out.
Talk to each other.
(17:40):
The arguing only pushes amarriage further and further
away.
So you want to get it to thepoint where you're bringing each
other closer and closer, moreand more in, because you got two
different egos, two differentpersonalities and you're try to
(18:01):
make it as one.
Marriage is a teamwork, so ifyou're not willing to work as a
team, it's going to be hard.
It's going to be hard.
So I suggest marriagecounseling.
Try to do more and more thingstogether.
(18:22):
Come together.
Look at the kids.
Your kids in the room will makea difference.
Because the arguing and goingback and forth the child sees
that he's going to mimic that,regardless of what kids mimic,
(18:46):
that he feels that's part of achild's upbringing, of seeing
his parents going back and forth.
So he feels when he get olderhe got to do the same thing.
That's what makes hisrelationship work.
When it don't, so again it'sbreaking that generational curse
(19:07):
of of trying to get the one upon your wife or on your husband.
So, sitting down, grownconversation.
Change the narrative.
That's what I tell any marriedcouple that's going through
(19:28):
anything.
Change the narrative.
So, man, there's so many thingsthat there's so much out there.
There's books you can read.
There's marriage counseling.
There's pastors that's willingto talk to you.
I choose to.
(19:50):
I talk with my uncle.
He's a pastor.
There's a couple more pastorsthat I talked to and you know I
had one pastor, only one, thatsaid you know what?
I've been through?
The same thing.
So there's always someone outthere you can talk to that's
going through the same thingthat you're going through and
(20:13):
the only thing that pastor healways told me I take this and I
use this.
I apply it today again.
Change the narrative.
Change the narrative so Iencourage anyone that's going
through it.
Again.
Change the narrative if youknow you want to be there.
(20:34):
Change the narrative so youknow you want to be there.
Change the narrative so that'show I feel about it.
Dr Bola Sogade (20:41):
Wow.
But you know this is powerfulwhat you're talking about.
But you talk about it's notlike a one-time thing, that you
or her are getting some kind oftherapy, because I know the
young people these days theycall it, you know go for therapy
and they don't, they have noshame about it anymore.
(21:02):
Like, just like you're going toget your pap smear done or your
physical, you should go seeyour therapist, no big deal.
So it should be, you know, likenot a one time thing.
You know it should be like afrequent thing so that you can
keep reinforcing the behavior,right.
"Charles" (21:17):
It can be a two week thing Every two weeks you want
to, you know, reach out tosomeone or a month, once a month
thing, just to keep checking inmy brother.
I talk to my brother every day.
He's married and we talk aboutmarried thing Plus both of us we
love.
He's married and we talk aboutmarried things Plus both of us.
We get the enjoyment of talkingabout cars at the same time.
(21:40):
I see, from the kind of carsyou guys have and I call him,
ask him about this or he'll callme, hey, what you think about
this.
And so I have my brother that'sin my corner as I feel, my
(22:03):
therapist, my dad.
Oh man, sometimes I'm on thephone with my dad 11, 12 o'clock
, one o'clock in the morning,you know, and we just talking
and we talk about.
Sometimes we talk aboutmarriage, sometimes we talk
about life.
You know, I have my best friend, which I call him my brother
too.
Me and him talk about well,he's not married but he's in a
(22:25):
relationship and me and him talkabout relationships.
We always do this therapy thing.
You know, you don't necessarilyhave to go through it with a
preacher or go to marriagecounseling, you don't have to
always go through.
Well, I say it like this myapproach is not for everyone.
(22:50):
You have to choose your ownapproach.
It's not for everyone.
You have to choose your ownapproach.
I just choose to get with peoplethat are married, that have
successful marriages, and talkwith them about situations,
instead of talking to someonesingle.
(23:11):
Someone single is going to belike, come on out there with me,
they don't care, but I know themarriage couple is going to be
like okay, don't step out thatway, Go this way, and I choose
to follow the marriage couplemore than the single.
(23:33):
So, man, it's a mindset thatyou got to have when you're
married.
I said the devil.
He works in mysterious ways,just like God works in
mysterious ways.
The devil works harder becausethe devil knows what you like,
knows what you want.
God knows what you like andknows what you want, but the
(23:54):
devil's going to work harder totry to get you to break that
covenant.
So you have to walk in the waythe Lord wants you to before
it's being married, because it'shard, it's hard, it's hard.
Dr Bola Sogade (24:12):
So yeah, wow, thank you for that, you know.
I just wanted to circle back toyou know, when you were young,
the pastors we didn't have thateffect on you, and now, as an
older person, you're able torelate with people that are
actually making change andthere's also a place for
(24:33):
professional counseling makingchange and there's also a place
for professional counseling.
So, even though you'vesurrounded yourself with
different levels of counselingexperience, there's also a room
for professional counseling, andyou did mention that at times
people might have to go tomarriage counseling.
But you can individualize it,for yourself.
"Charles" (24:52):
Yes, ma'am, you have to make it where it works for
you.
Like I said, my way may notwork for them, but you have to
look at a way that'll work fortheir marriage.
Like I said, we're goingthrough our ups and downs
marriage counseling,professional marriage,
counseling, pastors.
I did everything, pastors, Idid everything.
(25:16):
But I feel our biggestcounseling was me and her
counseling each other, and thatwas help that brought us closer,
because we counseled each other, we talked to each other and
just poured out to each other,and I feel that's where the
(25:39):
counseling first start.
You have to put downself-demons and you have to get
rid of those, the selfish, theself.
It's not about self, no more,it's us.
So you can't worry about thewhole me, me, me, me, me.
(26:07):
And that's what a lot ofmarriages get messed up with.
It's me, me, me, no, it's us.
It's me, me, me, no, it's us.
So my account is her account.
I don't ask her about heraccount you mean?
Dr Bola Sogade (26:26):
you mean financial account?
"Charles" (26:27):
yeah, oh, of course yeah, so.
I look at it, it's a us thing.
You know, we do everythingtogether, Something that she
does I don't like to do.
But I know, like I said, I'mbig on cars.
(26:49):
She's willing to deal with me,with me talking about cars,
buying cars, working on my carand doing things like that.
I said, man, I'm open to doingthings with her as well.
So I just had to put thatexception into the side and just
you know what.
(27:09):
Let's do this.
I'm going to compromise withyou.
I'm going to compromise withyou Because she sit there all
night.
I put her on TV and watchracing all night, All night long
, and she in there trying tosleep and all of a sudden she
hear vroom and she'll wake upand look at me, just shake her
(27:38):
head and you know, I just feelshe deal with me during that.
Oh man, I got to deal with herwith whatever else she want to
do, Wow.
Dr Bola Sogade (27:48):
Wow, you know, I'm just so glad that you talked
about just all the differentways.
For you know, we talk aboutmarried couples, but for anybody
really in serious relationships, like surround yourself with
people that can give you goodadvice, good counseling and
check in on a regular basis,that's what you're saying.
"Charles" (28:10):
Yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am, like I said, you don't
have to be a counselor.
Counselor it can be familymembers, other married couples.
Like I said, any counseling canwork.
Like I said, me and my brother,we talk almost every day.
But if we don't talk every day,we're going to call each other
at least once a week.
Dr Bola Sogade (28:29):
In our upcoming episode we talk more with
Charles.
So again it's breaking that generational curse
.
Dr Bola Sogade (00:23):
Hello and welcome back to CocoaPods
podcast.
My name is Dr Bola Sogade, I'ma women's health specialist and
I'm your host, so we continue inthese conversations about
difficult relationships.
Please keep listening toCocoaPods podcast, thank you.
So we continue our discussionswith Charles.
"Charles" (00:44):
So that bond between me and my dad, it wasn't.
Now I can talk to him as we gotolder, but then, like I said, I
just feel he was never there.
So, yeah, I just didn't havethat bond with my dad.
I chose to go and talk tocousins and my cousins they was
(01:11):
single and plus Seeing what theydo.
Like I said, it's just thatmodel.
It's just that model mygranddad passed when I was 18.
I know, if my granddad was here, I would have listened to my
granddad because he probablywould have whooped me with his
(01:37):
cap, but I would have listenedto him because I was very close
with my granddad, my grandmotherand my granddad.
I was very close with mygrandmother and granddad.
My grandmother and granddadwere still married as well, so I
was very close to them.
Like I said, that generationalcurse, I wish I could have broke
(02:01):
that earlier than now.
I wish I should have.
I could have broke that earlierthan now.
I wish I should have, I couldhave.
But that modeling, thatmodeling was everything for me
and I just couldn't break thatmold.
It's like once you got thatmodel on you, it's hard to get
that model off your back.
Dr Bola Sogade (02:22):
Wow, so you are breaking a generational curse.
That's right.
Wow, Now you guys have a veryunique situation because I see a
lot of women every day in thatyou went through all of this.
I think your wife said youactually got divorced like
(02:45):
officially.
"Charles" (02:47):
Yes, yes.
Dr Bola Sogade (02:48):
But you're together now, you guys are
happier.
And she talked about justfeeling shame, you know, and
like, oh my goodness, what willher friends say?
What will her family say?
She's divorced.
And she just felt shame.
I mean, what were you feelingduring this period of all of
(03:09):
this?
"Charles" (03:12):
I was embarrassed as well, but I was ashamed.
I said all the shame part comesfrom me hurting her.
I couldn't face a lot of myfamily members and everyone
knows what happened and Iunderstand she's I mean her
(03:38):
shame.
I understand that.
But I had people rooting At thetime I found out I had people
rooting for our divorce so andthat was some family members.
So I was like, wow, for hisfamily.
I thought family would come tome.
(03:59):
You know, hey, you know you wasmessing up.
You know, get yourself together.
I didn't have that.
I didn't have that.
I have a close friend, a buddyof mine.
That's like my brother.
He called me, my biologicalbrother, he called me and I had
(04:24):
one cousin that was calling meand telling me you know, hey, we
all mess up, but it's what youdo afterwards.
You know, if y'all going todivorce, divorce in a good state
of mind, don't divorce in aconflict situation.
And I was telling like I toldhim, I said, man, I don't want a
(04:46):
divorce.
So and my brother, he was like,well, what you going to do to
fix it?
And my cousin, he told me, hesaid this is going to be the
hardest part of your marriage istrying to make this thing work.
He said, man, it's those whochoose to fight and those that
(05:09):
choose not to, you choosing notto.
So he said because fight?
He said, man, I don't want tosee y'all divorced because
that's your light, she is yourlight.
Don't let that light go dark.
So I love my cousin for that.
(05:32):
He's a good guy, a great guy,and I took that.
He's actually younger than me,so I took that and I ran with it
.
My mom, like I said, my mom anddad still married.
My grandmother, my granddad,still married.
(05:54):
How would it?
No, I'm not getting a divorce,I'm going to choose to fight.
And I ended up talking to mydad about the whole situation
and he was like I've been thereand done that.
So I feel if I would have hadthat talk with my dad earlier, I
(06:18):
wonder that we never would havebeen through this whole
situation.
I didn't, like I said, I didn'thave that talk with my dad.
I didn't have that.
I talked to everyone elsebesides my dad and I just felt I
should have talked to my dadbefore I went to everyone else.
But over the years I never hadthat bond with my dad like that,
(06:42):
so I always had other people totry to call, but my cousins,
like I said, I talked to themevery day and he always told me
you know, I'm going to call you.
Yeah, he told me literally andhe did it.
He called me every day.
(07:03):
What you did today, cuz, and Ibroke him down, walked him down
with everything I done.
He said, cuz, sometimes you gotto do a little bit more,
because now you got to gain herattention back, y'all was going
to get a divorce.
That means a divorce.
It was over, there was nofixing.
(07:24):
So now you're trying to fix it,you're trying to fix your
marriage.
He said, man, you can't havestuff.
You got to go all the way, yougot to kick the doors in.
So, and that's what I chose todo, I chose to stay in, I chose
(07:44):
to fight Like to stay in.
I chose to fight, like I said,still to now, I still have
family members that still wantus divorced, but I'm not gonna
give them that.
I'm sure that God can work inmysterious ways and I am a
changed man and I choose to walkin the way that God want me to
go.
So, and by me walking in thatway, I'm choosing to walk in the
way that God wants me to go.
(08:05):
So, and by me walking in thatway, I'm choosing to walk with
my wife.
So we're going to fight to theend.
Dr Bola Sogade (08:14):
Wow, I love your choice of words.
You know fighting.
I just want to go to the pain.
The provider she talked abouthow you know, if you messed up,
you would, you know, shower herwith gifts and then she would
forget?
I mean, did you feel was thathelping your ego?
Did you feel there's somethingwe talk about, the God complex.
Did you feel like you know I'm.
(08:35):
You know I'm the man.
I'm going to provide everything.
I'm like God to this woman.
"Charles" (08:41):
You know, because I was doing that.
Like I said, it's mentality howI was raised.
I was doing that because my dadthat's one thing my dad always
told me.
Regardless of what be aprovider, gifts always change a
(09:03):
woman's mind.
Gifts, I always change awoman's mind, and so I used to
watch my dad buy my mom flowers.
I used to watch my dad whenhe's over the road.
He always come back withsomething for my mom.
I never asked questions to mydad, but so that's what I seen.
(09:25):
So I was like, okay, I'm gonnatake that and I'm gonna fly it.
So when me and her got togetheroh man, think, what a weekend I
just started buying anything.
I just got to the point I juststarted giving her anything.
I just got to the point I juststarted giving her my credit
card.
As we got older, I startedbuying her jewelry.
(09:50):
I always order clothes.
I show her you like this.
I order some clothes for her.
I order some shoes for her cars, and I know that'll keep a
smile on her face Through it all.
She can be embarrassed abouteverything.
But I feel, with a gift wherepeople can look at it, they can
(10:16):
say what they want, but at thesame time, this gift that's
making up for me, because I knowI did a lot of wrong in our
marriage and I'm not trying tobuy a gift to make her forget.
(10:41):
I'm buying gifts because shedeserves it.
You know, I'm not saying thatbuying gifts erase all
everything that I've done, butyou know I want her.
If she's going to walk outthere and be shamed, she's going
to look good doing it so andthat's where the whole gift
(11:03):
thing is coming from.
I'm a giffer regardless.
I'm a giffer at heart andthat's what I stand on.
Dr Bola Sogade (11:11):
Did that make you feel like how did that, what
did that do to you?
"Charles" (11:15):
It's an ego.
It's an ego If she leave metoday.
I always told her.
I said if you leave me today.
I said I don't think it wouldbe hard to find a man that would
do that, that would buy yougifts before he buy himself a
gift.
That's just how I looked at it.
That's how I always thought ofit.
I said my goal is to make ithard for the next man.
(11:39):
He got to be 10 times betterthan me.
Wow, that's how I see it.
I'm going to make it hard forthe next man.
Dr Bola Sogade (11:56):
Now let me ask you if this had been reversed,
like if she had been the onethat you know, stepped out of
the marriage and got withanother man that gave her more,
for instance how would you havereacted to that?
"Charles" (12:11):
Oh man.
And she asked me that beforeand I told her.
Dr Bola Sogade (12:27):
I said oh man, I got to go work some more.
But would you be angry?
I mean, would you be jealous?
I?
"Charles" (12:31):
would be jealous, I would be jealous.
See, no, I don't have a jealousbone in my body, but at that I
would have been jealous.
Be jealous.
So you know, I don't have ajealous bone in my body, but at
that I would have been jealous,very jealous.
It would have made me step itup even more.
Instead of buying smallerthings, I probably would have
(12:53):
went bigger.
I would have went bigger.
Probably, oh man, I would havebeen broke.
I'll tell you that much,because now it feels like we're
in competition.
So yeah, oh man, I don't thinkabout it.
But yeah, if she would have, Imean, whoever she choose, I
(13:21):
still would have been happy withit, but I would have fought, I
would have made it hard for her.
Like I said, I know he's doingit, but I already have a heart.
So the competing part I wasn'tworried about.
I know who she was going to bewith.
(13:42):
So that's a confident thing forme.
Like I said, another thing myego.
I have a big ego where I feelthere's no other man that could
compete with me with her love.
He can buy her this, buy herthat and buy her this, but he
(14:06):
don't have a heart.
I have a heart and I'm notgoing to let that heart go.
So I'm going to applaud her, butI know she's not going to stick
with him because of those gifts.
You can shower someone withgifts, but you can't shower with
(14:28):
love.
Like I said, I had her love, Ihad her heart.
He doesn't.
So that would have made it alittle bit more easier for me,
because I know she loves me andshe'll never, no matter what,
(14:50):
we're going to always love eachother, but I wasn't worried
about another man though.
Dr Bola Sogade (14:55):
Wow it's funny how the men are not worried
about another man, though.
Wow, it's funny how the men arenot worried about another man,
but then the women are worriedabout another woman.
That is crazy.
But let me ask you, if there'sa young couple at that stage
(15:15):
where you guys were young couple, at that stage where you guys
were, you know, with the arguingstage at this day and age, what
would you recommend that theydo so that it doesn't, you know,
escalate down to beingseparated, being divorced?
What can they put in place?
Now, you know, once they seethat they're arguing all the
time, they can't get along.
(15:37):
They don't seem to be able tostand each other.
"Charles" (15:41):
I feel they should come together and talk.
Dr Bola Sogade (15:44):
But they can't stand each other.
They're not seeing eye to eye.
"Charles" (15:49):
They have to put their differences aside,
especially if they have kids.
You have to put differencesaside to be able to talk as an
adult, because arguing, you see,it's not getting nowhere
arguing.
So someone had to be the matureone to okay.
(16:10):
Okay, let's do this, take it adifferent approach Because, like
I said, with the clashing,it'll never work.
It'll never work because I'm madat them for doing this, I'm mad
at him for doing this and she'smad at him for doing this and
(16:32):
he's mad at her for this, andthey're going to always argue
Always.
You did this back then.
You did this back then.
Dr Bola Sogade (16:42):
That sounds like the woman they're the ones that
I remember all the way back,yeah.
"Charles" (16:46):
And you know you have some men that try to throw
shade as well.
But throwing shade only stir upthe fire.
It don't put the fire out,because now she's trying to
outdo him.
Well, you remember you did thisand this I said it never works.
(17:06):
So I feel marriage counselingworks, but you got to give it
100%.
Dr Bola Sogade (17:16):
You have to be 100% honest.
"Charles" (17:19):
Honesty goes a long way.
You have a lot of men.
That's not honest and you havesome females.
That's not honest.
Honesty goes a long way.
In a marriage you respect eachother more, but you just have to
try to work it out.
Talk to each other.
(17:40):
The arguing only pushes amarriage further and further
away.
So you want to get it to thepoint where you're bringing each
other closer and closer, moreand more in, because you got two
different egos, two differentpersonalities and you're try to
(18:01):
make it as one.
Marriage is a teamwork, so ifyou're not willing to work as a
team, it's going to be hard.
It's going to be hard.
So I suggest marriagecounseling.
Try to do more and more thingstogether.
(18:22):
Come together.
Look at the kids.
Your kids in the room will makea difference.
Because the arguing and goingback and forth the child sees
that he's going to mimic that,regardless of what kids mimic,
(18:46):
that he feels that's part of achild's upbringing, of seeing
his parents going back and forth.
So he feels when he get olderhe got to do the same thing.
That's what makes hisrelationship work.
When it don't, so again it'sbreaking that generational curse
(19:07):
of of trying to get the one upon your wife or on your husband.
So, sitting down, grownconversation.
Change the narrative.
That's what I tell any marriedcouple that's going through
(19:28):
anything.
Change the narrative.
So, man, there's so many thingsthat there's so much out there.
There's books you can read.
There's marriage counseling.
There's pastors that's willingto talk to you.
I choose to.
(19:50):
I talk with my uncle.
He's a pastor.
There's a couple more pastorsthat I talked to and you know I
had one pastor, only one, thatsaid you know what?
I've been through?
The same thing.
So there's always someone outthere you can talk to that's
going through the same thingthat you're going through and
(20:13):
the only thing that pastor healways told me I take this and I
use this.
I apply it today again.
Change the narrative.
Change the narrative so Iencourage anyone that's going
through it.
Again.
Change the narrative if youknow you want to be there.
(20:34):
Change the narrative so youknow you want to be there.
Change the narrative so that'show I feel about it.
Dr Bola Sogade (20:41):
Wow.
But you know this is powerfulwhat you're talking about.
But you talk about it's notlike a one-time thing, that you
or her are getting some kind oftherapy, because I know the
young people these days theycall it, you know go for therapy
and they don't, they have noshame about it anymore.
(21:02):
Like, just like you're going toget your pap smear done or your
physical, you should go seeyour therapist, no big deal.
So it should be, you know, likenot a one time thing.
You know it should be like afrequent thing so that you can
keep reinforcing the behavior,right.
"Charles" (21:17):
It can be a two week thing Every two weeks you want
to, you know, reach out tosomeone or a month, once a month
thing, just to keep checking inmy brother.
I talk to my brother every day.
He's married and we talk aboutmarried thing Plus both of us we
love.
He's married and we talk aboutmarried things Plus both of us.
We get the enjoyment of talkingabout cars at the same time.
(21:40):
I see, from the kind of carsyou guys have and I call him,
ask him about this or he'll callme, hey, what you think about
this.
And so I have my brother that'sin my corner as I feel, my
(22:03):
therapist, my dad.
Oh man, sometimes I'm on thephone with my dad 11, 12 o'clock
, one o'clock in the morning,you know, and we just talking
and we talk about.
Sometimes we talk aboutmarriage, sometimes we talk
about life.
You know, I have my best friend, which I call him my brother
too.
Me and him talk about well,he's not married but he's in a
(22:25):
relationship and me and him talkabout relationships.
We always do this therapy thing.
You know, you don't necessarilyhave to go through it with a
preacher or go to marriagecounseling, you don't have to
always go through.
Well, I say it like this myapproach is not for everyone.
(22:50):
You have to choose your ownapproach.
It's not for everyone.
You have to choose your ownapproach.
I just choose to get with peoplethat are married, that have
successful marriages, and talkwith them about situations,
instead of talking to someonesingle.
(23:11):
Someone single is going to belike, come on out there with me,
they don't care, but I know themarriage couple is going to be
like okay, don't step out thatway, Go this way, and I choose
to follow the marriage couplemore than the single.
(23:33):
So, man, it's a mindset thatyou got to have when you're
married.
I said the devil.
He works in mysterious ways,just like God works in
mysterious ways.
The devil works harder becausethe devil knows what you like,
knows what you want.
God knows what you like andknows what you want, but the
(23:54):
devil's going to work harder totry to get you to break that
covenant.
So you have to walk in the waythe Lord wants you to before
it's being married, because it'shard, it's hard, it's hard.
Dr Bola Sogade (24:12):
So yeah, wow, thank you for that, you know.
I just wanted to circle back toyou know, when you were young,
the pastors we didn't have thateffect on you, and now, as an
older person, you're able torelate with people that are
actually making change andthere's also a place for
(24:33):
professional counseling makingchange and there's also a place
for professional counseling.
So, even though you'vesurrounded yourself with
different levels of counselingexperience, there's also a room
for professional counseling, andyou did mention that at times
people might have to go tomarriage counseling.
But you can individualize it,for yourself.
"Charles" (24:52):
Yes, ma'am, you have to make it where it works for
you.
Like I said, my way may notwork for them, but you have to
look at a way that'll work fortheir marriage.
Like I said, we're goingthrough our ups and downs
marriage counseling,professional marriage,
counseling, pastors.
I did everything, pastors, Idid everything.
(25:16):
But I feel our biggestcounseling was me and her
counseling each other, and thatwas help that brought us closer,
because we counseled each other, we talked to each other and
just poured out to each other,and I feel that's where the
(25:39):
counseling first start.
You have to put downself-demons and you have to get
rid of those, the selfish, theself.
It's not about self, no more,it's us.
So you can't worry about thewhole me, me, me, me, me.
(26:07):
And that's what a lot ofmarriages get messed up with.
It's me, me, me, no, it's us.
It's me, me, me, no, it's us.
So my account is her account.
I don't ask her about heraccount you mean?
Dr Bola Sogade (26:26):
you mean financial account?
"Charles" (26:27):
yeah, oh, of course yeah, so.
I look at it, it's a us thing.
You know, we do everythingtogether, Something that she
does I don't like to do.
But I know, like I said, I'mbig on cars.
(26:49):
She's willing to deal with me,with me talking about cars,
buying cars, working on my carand doing things like that.
I said, man, I'm open to doingthings with her as well.
So I just had to put thatexception into the side and just
you know what.
(27:09):
Let's do this.
I'm going to compromise withyou.
I'm going to compromise withyou Because she sit there all
night.
I put her on TV and watchracing all night, All night long
, and she in there trying tosleep and all of a sudden she
hear vroom and she'll wake upand look at me, just shake her
(27:38):
head and you know, I just feelshe deal with me during that.
Oh man, I got to deal with herwith whatever else she want to
do, Wow.
Dr Bola Sogade (27:48):
Wow, you know, I'm just so glad that you talked
about just all the differentways.
For you know, we talk aboutmarried couples, but for anybody
really in serious relationships, like surround yourself with
people that can give you goodadvice, good counseling and
check in on a regular basis,that's what you're saying.
"Charles" (28:10):
Yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am, like I said, you don't
have to be a counselor.
Counselor it can be familymembers, other married couples.
Like I said, any counseling canwork.
Like I said, me and my brother,we talk almost every day.
But if we don't talk every day,we're going to call each other
at least once a week.
Dr Bola Sogade (28:29):
In our upcoming episode we talk more with
Charles.
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