March 28, 2024 • 28 mins
When the bonds of matrimony are tested by the specter of infidelity, is forgiveness truly possible? Journey with us and our brave guest Lillian (a pseudonym) as she lays bare the soul-stirring odyssey of betrayal, forgiveness, and healing in the sacred covenant of marriage. Lillian's deeply personal account shines a light on the grueling yet transformative process of overcoming the silent ties that bind—those enigmatic soul ties that often make moving forward seem insurmountable. Her candid narrative, punctuated by the resilient joy of mending what was once broken, offers a testament to the power of positive affirmation and the seismic shifts that mindful self-reflection and intentional discourse can create within a relationship.
But this episode doesn't just linger on the challenges of one couple's journey; it encompasses the piercing clarity that comes from my own confrontation with betrayal and the subsequent path to inner peace. A poignant discussion on the significance of spiritual counsel in battling generational curses within marriage further enriches our dialogue. We uncover how the consistent shoring up of one's spouse through prayer and faith-centric counseling can reshape a narrative marred by pain, ushering in a renewed commitment symbolized by the simple act of wearing a wedding ring once more. Let this episode serve as a beacon for any soul navigating the stormy seas of marital strife, offering hope that the human spirit's capacity for love and healing knows no bounds.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
"Lillian" (00:00):
You know, you act like and I'm talking to myself
now in the mirror you act likeyou're so perfect.
What if God threw all your sinsup to you?
What if he named you by yourevery sin you have done?
You know, would you like that?
So why would you do that toyour husband?
Dr Bola Sogade (00:36):
Welcome to CocoaPods podcast.
My name is Dr Bola Sogade andI'm a women's health specialist.
We continue our series fromlast week.
We've been talking with Lillianthat's her pseudonym and she's
been sharing her lifeexperiences, her marital
experiences, the difficultiesthat she's gone through and the
(00:57):
triumphs that she's had.
"Lillian" (01:00):
So I had to just do heart to heart talks to myself.
And even when those thoughtscome in my mind, I want to say
something.
I catch myself and say, youknow, jesus, you know, just help
me, help me.
And then my husband look at meand I said, no, I just want to
say thank you for cleaning thehouse.
You know, thank you for doingthat.
And he's like, oh, I appreciateit.
So it was.
I had to change my, my wordsand the way I thought, and it
(01:24):
was a challenge.
It was a challenge.
Now, you mentioned soul tie atsome point.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about that?
Soul ties, yes, so he had asoul tie, as in when he was with
this young lady, they used tohave matching outfits, they used
to go to places together, theyused to buy each other, they was
in a relationship.
You know like they was.
(01:45):
And so, todd, he couldn't letgo.
Even when he came back to me atthat time he still was talking,
conversating with her, lettingher know oh, it's going to this,
oh, it's not this.
And I don't know what me and mywife is doing.
She's fussing, she's fighting,just like giving her a report
about what's going on in thehouse that he can't let her go.
(02:07):
You know, even though if thecounselor, the pastor, was
telling him change your number,oh, I can't change my number or
get rid of clothes.
He had clothes that he boughtwhen he was with her and he
didn't want to get rid of.
And I was explaining to thepastor like this young lady sent
me over 50 pictures of themtogether.
(02:29):
You know this is embedded in mymind 50 pictures, family
portraits with her and herfamily, like they was all.
He had a whole double life andI can't get these images out of
my mind.
And when I see his clothes he'swearing, these are the same
clothes and he won't get rid ofthem.
And that's what he's trying toexplain to him.
You got a soul tie, you need tolet that go.
(02:50):
He was like no, these are myclothes and so tired.
Is this something that you'rehaving sexual activities or
you're connected to a spiritthat is is evil and not in God
intention for you and and youcan't let go, he couldn't let go
.
Dr Bola Sogade (03:06):
So that's what the pastor brought up when he
said so how do you deal withthat Now that he's no longer
with that lady and he's backwith you?
How do you deal with the factthat there is this soul tie?
"Lillian" (03:18):
It was hard Cause like, like I said, it was days
that I will be talking tosomeone and I zone out, and they
can just be talking to melaughing, and I laugh and I zone
out thinking, and then it'slike, hey, you heard me.
It's like, oh, yeah, I heardyou.
You know, just zone out.
And when I start doing that, Inoticed that I lost myself.
(03:38):
And so how I dealt with it, asI said before, I had to spend
time with myself to heal becauseI never healed properly.
I thought I healed but I didn'theal properly.
So I'll write anything thatbothered me.
I used to write it down.
If I got mad at him, if I wantto say some bad things to him,
I'll write it down.
Write it down and I'll ball itup and I'll throw it away.
(03:59):
And then I started speakinglife into him out of my mouth,
because you have to understand,kids are listening.
And I remember growing up in myhousehold.
I was listening to my parents.
I heard all those things thatmom and dad was saying to each
other and I was repeating thecycle and I had to be the cycle
breaker.
So I was like, well, what do Ineed to do?
(04:20):
So I start writing it down,throwing it away to do so, I
started writing it down,throwing it away.
Or I started going and justtaking long rides by myself,
screaming, yelling, because thethoughts was there, the imaging
in my mind was there in my headand I couldn't let it go.
Even when I look at him, evenif he got back intimate, the
thoughts was there, you know,and he knew it.
(04:41):
And I looked him in his faceone day and said I need to heal
and I need time.
I don't know how much time it'sgoing to take, but I need it.
And he said take all the timeyou need.
And I just spent time with God.
I read books, I prayed, I cried, I wrote stuff down, I
journaled and asked myself whydid I stay so long?
(05:02):
You know, why did I allow thisto happen?
And ask myself why did I stayso long?
You know, why did I allow thisto happen?
What's wrong with me?
You know?
Am I insecure or do I notdeserve love?
All those things happen.
But the beauty of it all waswhen I found out who the young
lady was.
She called me, remember, I toldyou.
My mom said so.
(05:22):
She called me and she said shewas crying on the phone and I
guess they got into a fight.
And she called me and she saidcome get your husband.
And I say, excuse me.
And she said come get yourhusband.
And I said, baby, what time isit?
And she said it was about sixor seven and it was about three
(05:43):
or four in the morning.
I said honey and this is me nowbecause, keep in mind, I was
over him.
I said my office hours arebetween eight and nine.
Call me back at eight and wecan talk about it.
I said how long y'all beentalking?
She said, oh, we've beentogether for a year.
I said he's my husband, butthat's your man.
Whatever y'all got going on,you go figure it out and I hung
the phone up.
I went back to sleep.
I went back to sleep because Iwas over him.
Dr Bola Sogade (06:04):
And you could sleep.
"Lillian" (06:06):
I slept good, I filed for divorce.
I mean, you know, I filed and Iwas over him, I was done.
And she called back and thatcry I heard.
I knew I know that cry andthat's the cry I used to cry all
the time.
I got up out of my bed and Isaid are you okay?
And she said no, I said I'm onmy way.
Dr Bola Sogade (06:30):
What time was?
This it was about four in themorning.
You called the doctor.
"Lillian" (06:34):
No, she called me back.
Dr Bola Sogade (06:35):
Oh, she called you back, crying.
So, the second time.
"Lillian" (06:39):
Uh-huh, uh-huh the second time and I went to her
house Four o'clock in themorning by myself.
She could have killed me, shecould have did anything.
Dr Bola Sogade (06:47):
And your husband was there.
"Lillian" (06:48):
No, he left.
They got into an argument and Iwent to her and I hugged her.
Dr Bola Sogade (06:54):
Wow.
"Lillian" (06:55):
I hugged her and she cried on my shoulder and she
said I'm sorry.
I said I know you are.
I said, but you are strongerand you are better than this.
I said I forgive you.
I said, but I want you toforgive yourself.
And she said I'm not going togo back to him.
I said yes, you are, you lovehim.
Dr Bola Sogade (07:14):
I said you're going to go back to him.
"Lillian" (07:17):
Had you given up on him?
Then yes, I said, yes, you are,you love him and you're going
to go back to him.
Know your worth.
And she said I'm, you know, I'mnot going to do this, no more.
I'm sorry, he told me.
I said I know he lied to you.
I said but at some point youknew he was married too.
And I'm hugging her this wholetime.
She could have stabbed me in myback, she could have did
(07:39):
anything.
I'm by myself, but she, shecried so bad on my arm and I
didn't cry with her.
It was just like I wasconsoling myself.
I saw her in me and I held herand I hugged her and I prayed
for her right then and there.
Dr Bola Sogade (07:53):
I mean, how can you?
Some women out there we want toknow, how can you do that?
I mean, this is your husband'sgirlfriend for one year she
calls you in the dead of thenight, crying, and you went to
her and you never met her before, never.
I mean what was going throughyour head?
"Lillian" (08:15):
Um, a woman that needed support because at that
time, like I said, I was overhim.
But I heard a woman that wasnaive.
I heard me on the other end andI wanted someone to do that to
me.
So I heard she needed somebodythere.
(08:37):
So I went to her, I hugged her.
I didn't have a scare ornervousness in my bone.
I just heard a woman thatneeded grace.
She needed grace, she neededforgiveness, she needed love.
At that time she needed someoneto tell her that you know, God
(08:58):
still love you, but you have tolove yourself and you have to
know what you did is wrong, Um,but you're going to have to
learn how to love yourself andget you know, give yourself
grace to that he.
He did, he did trick you, hedidn't manipulate you, he did
lie to you.
But you have to learn how tolove yourself.
Dr Bola Sogade (09:16):
Now, part of the manipulation can also come from
the woman in which they trappedthe man and actually started
family.
They started family together.
"Lillian" (09:24):
She was pregnant.
She was pregnant.
I found that out later on.
She was pregnant, but they hadan abortion.
They had an abortion.
I found that out later on.
So all that was in my mind.
You know, she was pregnant andthey had an abortion, which I
don't really think.
He wanted that baby, but hedidn't stop her for not doing it
(09:47):
like that, yeah.
So, yeah, she, she shared thatwith me too and at the time I
wasn't.
I wasn't angry when she told methat because, again, I was over
him.
I wasn't angry.
I was hurting for her becauseshe had to go through that.
And I looked at him when shetold me.
Then I realized at that time too, she was being manipulative
(10:08):
because she's trying to tell meall these things to get me to go
away so she can be with him.
Because, keep in mind, I said,he's a provider, good with money
, good with providing, good withtaking care of you.
So when I realized that earlyon what she was trying to do,
after I didn't hug her, told her, god, after I did all of that,
I said, oh, I know this tactic,what is she trying to do?
(10:30):
And I looked at him and I saidshe's never going to forget this
.
You ought to be ashamed ofyourself.
And he said no, she, you know,blaming it on her and everything
like this.
And it was crazy.
He was just blaming everythingon her and she wanted it.
I said so what do you want?
I don't want no baby bodies,this woman.
I said did you hear that?
Yeah, he didn't say that.
(10:52):
The other night I said, ofcourse, you know, of course, but
she was naive once, like I was,and still calling him.
He was still calling her.
That's that soul tie thepreacher was talking about.
They were still, even after allthat even he called her out her
name.
I don't want you, I want mywife.
You are this, you are that, youare this and this and
(11:16):
da-da-da-da, and still keptcalling her.
So that's that soul tie thatthe pastor was explaining to him
and educating him and us bothabout.
Dr Bola Sogade (11:24):
So you know, fast forward now.
You guys have been togetherafter this for how long, oh?
"Lillian" (11:33):
six years.
Dr Bola Sogade (11:35):
And you said he changed.
"Lillian" (11:38):
He has, he changed.
But in the beginning I didn't.
I didn't want to change, Iwanted to hold on.
I wanted to be a.
If I could have been a witch, Iwould have, I would have cast
spells, I would have did and Iknow it sounds so evil, but if I
could have, I would have.
That's how angry and that's howI allowed hatred and
(12:02):
unforgiveness to settle in mybody, because I didn't.
You know, I tell you, I forgiveyou, but I really don't.
And all that hatred and stuffstart coming up and yeah, if, oh
, but he, he changed.
He, he did a 360.
God was doing a major thing inhim, but not for me.
I didn't want to change, Ididn't want to change at all.
(12:24):
I was mean and I was hateful.
Dr Bola Sogade (12:28):
So what is helping you change now?
"Lillian" (12:31):
That talk.
I had time to heal after I hadthat talk with him and told him
I need to heal.
I need time because I can'tkeep doing this.
This is not a Christian way.
This is not how God attend formarriage to be and you don't
deserve this, you know.
So I heal.
He gave me time to heal.
(12:51):
That mean, he just gave mespace.
Dr Bola Sogade (12:53):
So space away from him.
"Lillian" (12:55):
He was, he'll work.
He'll pick up more hours atwork and he'll let me.
He'll go sleep in the otherroom or he'll, you know, he'll
go get, take the kids somewhereto have me a spa day.
You know, he'll probably get aspa day for me.
He used to buy me journals.
He used to put in the old musicin the house settling music,
something to ease my mind in thehouse and just let just, let me
(13:17):
be so he.
He, let he, let me be so he,let me just sit in it.
Sit in it, you know, and he'llask me do you need anything, do
you?
You know?
No, just get away from me, youknow stuff like that.
So, yeah, so I healed from thatand it took time, a lot of
forgiveness for myself.
I had to forgive myself forstaying because I didn't.
(13:38):
I'm like, why did I?
I had to forgive myself forstaying.
I had to forgive myself forstaying because I didn't.
I'm like, why did I?
I had to forgive myself forstaying.
I had to forgive myself forloving someone more than I love
myself.
I had to forgive myself.
And once I learned how toforgive myself and it came easy.
And then I learned how to notworry about what nobody think,
because I'm like well, whatpeople going to think if we get
a divorce?
I don't want people to knowthey're going to say it's my
(13:59):
fault Because you know, and thatwas my second thing.
But once I learned to overcomethat and just stayed in the word
and just know that God had usand had me, everything just
flowed after that.
Dr Bola Sogade (14:15):
Now, while you were healing, were you guys
intimate Were?
"Lillian" (14:19):
you guys intimate.
I tried not to, but I think themore we were intimate, I think
it helped us.
Because I didn't want to,because I think it was just sex.
I didn't.
It's like, oh, it's sex,because I don't love you like
that, no more.
Because even when we got backtogether I didn't love him.
(14:42):
But remember what I said in thebeginning of the podcast, that I
didn't marry for love, Imarried for stability.
So all that when I was healingall that came to me.
You didn't even love this man,in love with him when you
married him.
You loved him because you lovedhim enough to marry, but wasn't
in love.
You married him for thesereasons.
You knew what he was doing, youknew you had some type of.
(15:11):
You knew, but you still marriedhim because that was what you
taught, that's what you wastaught growing up to do.
So God showed me that he wasshowing me me and that's when I
learned how to love him properly.
So the intimacy after that wasjust good because I learned how
to love him and I realized and Ihad to go to my husband and
apologize and tell him I didn'tknow how to be a wife, just like
(15:34):
he didn't know how to be ahusband.
I'm learning and as well ashe's learning how to be a
husband.
We're gonna learn together howto work this thing out and we're
going to break generationcurses together and I want to
love you properly, just like Iwant you to love me properly,
and I'm going to, you know I'm.
We're teaching each other howto love each other properly and
(15:55):
how to love each other, you know.
So once I learned that with him,it became easier and you know,
we the disrespect and all thatstuff, it ceased and it stopped.
And when I, god was showing me,when I got out of God way,
that's when he showed me likeyou know, if you get out of my
way, I'll show you, I'll do it.
(16:16):
So I, that's when the theworldly eyes was taken off of me
and God was showing me thespiritual eyes of him, of my
husband, and I could say, oh,okay, I could see him and you
had used the word cover him.
Dr Bola Sogade (16:29):
Someone was mad at you or somebody said you
should have covered him.
What does that mean?
"Lillian" (16:35):
Mom told me.
She said you got to learn howto cover your husband.
That means pray for him.
Instead of going to get on thephone talking to your
girlfriends, talking to peopleabout your husband and pointing
out his insecurities, you know,learn how to go to God and say
you know, cover him.
Cover him, pray for him,protect him, ask God for
(16:55):
protection over his life.
Whatever you don't understandabout him, go to God, because
your friends didn't create him,god created him.
They don't understand it.
You guys are going to be on thephone talking two, three hours
about the same thing with both.
Oh, your husband do this, myhusband do that too.
Girl, but God was, you know,she was like.
You got to learn how to coveryour husband.
Go to God, god, I don'tunderstand this about him.
(17:17):
Teach me about him.
Teach me how to pray for him.
Teach me what to say, how toapproach him.
Is the words I'm saying notenough?
And even sometimes that willwork, sometimes that won't work,
but you just don't give up,because if he wants to change,
he'll change.
He'll change.
If he wants to receive it, hewill receive it.
And he did, he did.
Dr Bola Sogade (17:40):
Wow.
So now you guys are together,you're doing a spiritual journey
together.
Are you still in counselingtogether?
"Lillian" (17:47):
We are.
We're still in counseling how?
Dr Bola Sogade (17:49):
frequently do you?
"Lillian" (17:51):
We do it every month .
We was doing it twice a month,but now we do it every month
With a Christian counselor.
Dr Bola Sogade (17:57):
Yes.
"Lillian" (17:57):
Christian counselor.
He was doing it with themilitary counselor.
He does one privately byhimself and we'll do it together
and it works.
But it also works when wecounsel each other together.
So now we do this, we check in,we do a check in with each
other.
Now, how are you doing today?
Is there anything you'd like totalk about?
(18:18):
Is there something that we needto discuss today?
Did I say anything to offendyou today?
You know, let's talk about usand we check in with each other,
see where we at mentally, seewhere we at spiritually.
How can I be of service to youtoday?
You know things that we neverdid before because we wanted to
make it work.
I don't, I do not, encouragenobody to do what I do.
(18:43):
Uh, and lest you believe infighting, just cause this is a
fight that you will doubt yourfaith.
You will, you know, doeverything to that.
That is not godly, but I will.
I won't encourage nobody to doit, but if I can do it, you can
do it too.
I'm letting anyone else,anybody out there, know that
(19:06):
who's going through a divorce orwho's dealing with infidelity
in a marriage, you still want tofight and you still believe
there is hope.
There is hope.
But if you believe to let it go, let it go.
Also go to counseling first.
Exhort all your options beforeyou make your final decision.
But it is life after infidelity.
Dr Bola Sogade (19:27):
Wow, do you feel your children are grounded more
because you've had this fightand you stayed in it for them
and they see both parents?
"Lillian" (19:35):
They see both parents.
They see their dad as they seehim changing.
Because my oldest, when I toldmy husband I would get a divorce
and we call the kids in and saywe're getting divorced, my
oldest cried and he said why areyou doing this to me, mommy?
And I'm looking at him like didyou not know what your dad had
(19:56):
just did?
But he, they look at mommy, youknow, why are you doing this to
me, mommy?
You're breaking up our family.
And my baby said you're makingme a statistic.
It's like how would I make yourstatistic?
He said you're making me growup without a father, you know,
and that broke my heart becauseit's like you don't even
understand.
You know, and I also realizedwhy some people stay in broken
(20:19):
marriages for the kids becausethey want to, you know, keep
that father and the household istoxic.
That's what my mom did.
So I saw my kids.
I saw me and my kids.
So I was like I got to stop thecycle.
So the healing was necessaryfor me because my mama never
healed.
To this day.
They've been divorced for over30 years, to this day.
She still talks about it tothis day.
(20:41):
If I can say something aboutsomething she's like oh yeah, I
remember your daddy used to likemama.
That was like 40 years ago andI had to break the cycle.
I was like I can't do that.
I can't continue to talk aboutsomething that hurt me that long
.
I got to let that go.
So the healing started with usand he's like I said.
We've been together for fiveyears since then and it was not
(21:06):
easy, but it was worth it.
Dr Bola Sogade (21:08):
Yeah, I see the huge ring on your the cute
diamond rock on your finger.
"Lillian" (21:15):
So yeah, yeah, wow, he's a gift giver and I only you
know I'm not materialistic, buthe is, so of course I say he's
a gift giver but we're takingcare of the inside and the out.
So, cause the outside couldlook good, but that inside can
be tore up.
So I want to take, I want thatinside to be good, because I
didn't, this ring was justsitting, I didn't wear it for
(21:38):
years, I didn't wear it foryears and I put it back on when
that inside start looking good,because I can't, I can't show
you my outside Like girl, yes,everything, oh, we doing good,
but that inside is terrible.
So once that inside got goodbecause your household is your
first ministry, so once myministry, or my church, which is
(22:01):
my family, got into one, webecame one and we came in order,
and that's when I was like,okay, I can put the ring back on
.
Dr Bola Sogade (22:11):
And do you feel you broke the generational curse
?
"Lillian" (22:14):
I did.
Dr Bola Sogade (22:15):
Because you said something about his grandfather
, yep.
"Lillian" (22:18):
His grandfather, uncles.
He said that's all he saw.
That didn't?
They didn't you know theycheated on their wives or
girlfriends.
And he thought that you know,that's what men do.
And he's actually.
He actually talked to young menand other merit men about his
experience, what he has done,and he also encouraged him.
And the thing he told me was hesaid he apologized and he said
(22:43):
it was a mix of pieces.
You know, each year or each,whatever I mean, he'll come and
tell me you know things.
And when we talk like, do youwant to say something?
And he'll say I was insecure.
He said I was selfish.
He said I was a very selfishindividual.
I didn't care about nobody, noteven my kids.
He said I got married too youngand I didn't want a family.
(23:07):
And just to hear him say thosewords, I wanted to slap the fire
out of his mouth because yousaying you got married too young
, you didn't want to be marriedand you didn't want kids at that
young age, and so you decidedto do what you want to do
because you still want, you wantto have your fun, eat it too.
I was livid.
Like I can up and leave.
I couldn't take a break if Iwant to take a break, you know.
(23:30):
But to hear those words I wantedto slap him down, but I had to
sit in it and listen because Ican't Sometimes.
We got to learn how to be quietand listen.
The truth don't have to bepretty sometimes, but it's the
truth and that's his truth.
And I had to listen and refrainfrom just going off and just
(23:50):
say I get it.
And I did get it, becausesometimes I want to run away, I
want to run away from kids, Iwant to run away from life.
I want to do this and I get it,but I can't.
And he did.
And that moment I was like howare you crazy?
You know, that was his truth.
The bow and everything wasn'tpretty, but that was his truth.
(24:10):
Crazy, you know that was histruth.
Dr Bola Sogade (24:13):
The bowl and everything wasn't pretty, but
that was his truth.
So, lillian, you, we justyou've shared, we're just so
grateful to you for coming toCoco Pods podcast um, for
sharing your lived experience.
Like I said, not everybody hasthis wonderful story to tell and
I like the fact that you saidyou know for people at the verge
of separation, at the verge ofdivorce, if you feel you have a
(24:36):
fight in you and you want tofight for it, especially if you
have children involved and um,you know you are safe, you know
he's not like actively trying tokill you, yeah, yeah, yeah,
then fight, fight fight, fight,fight.
"Lillian" (24:51):
Because you're not wrestling between him, you're
wrestling between generationcurses.
You're fighting demons.
You're fighting stuff that way,before our time, that he's been
battling with.
We're fighting society.
You're fighting stuff.
Men go through all the time andI'm not just talking about this
infidelity.
They go through a lot.
You know.
Sometimes, as women, we pushthem away where sometimes they
(25:14):
just don't know, especially whenyou're married young.
They just don't know, notexcusing no man or saying no,
they just don't know.
We're too individual and thatis what God is.
We are too imperfect peopledeserving a perfect God.
We're imperfect, so we're goingto have challenges, not saying
to stay though.
Now, if you want to leave andyou're like I'm done, hey, be
(25:37):
done.
And, like I said, the onlyreason I stayed is because I
healed and I realized that I waspart of the problem.
I was part of the problem.
I was part of the problembecause I wasn't honest when we
got married.
I didn't love you.
I loved you, but it wasn'tenough.
I was part of the problembecause I wasn't honest when we
got married.
I didn't love you.
I loved you, but it wasn'tenough.
(25:58):
I was part of the problembecause I allowed him to
disrespect me for so long andnot had a voice.
I was part of the problem andthat's a problem, because you
don't stand up for yourself andyou let people keep running over
you and running over you.
I was part of the problem isbecause I didn't know how to be
a wife and that could be aproblem, because if you don't
know how to be a wife and hedon't know how to be a husband,
that's just my theory of it.
I had to learn how to be a wife.
(26:18):
As a woman, we know we talk toomuch.
We want to go on the phone andgospel and yell, but that's what
I saw.
That's what I saw.
I saw aggressiveness, I sawcussing out, I saw pointing
fingers, I saw manipulationgrowing up in my household and I
thought that's how you functionand that was part of the
problem.
He didn't.
He didn't grow up like that.
So when I had to takeaccountability for stuff that I
(26:41):
did not excuse what he did, butstuff that I've done I've looked
up.
I looked at phones and lookedat men with big muscles before
and so, oh Jesus, he's fine.
And looked at men with bigmuscles before and said, oh
Jesus, he's fine.
You don't think God said okay,because in the Bible they say
even look, I mean it's in yourheart, you're seeing, that's
adultery, you know.
So I had to look at all of thatstuff and say, god, okay, and
(27:04):
do I want God to call me by allmy sins that I did or thought
about?
You know?
Do I want that?
So and he became my best friendagain Before we got married.
He's my best friend and wefound our friendship again.
And once we found ourfriendship, the intimacy became
better again.
Dr Bola Sogade (27:23):
Wow, Lilian.
Thank you so much.
In our upcoming episode we talkmore with Lillian and Charles
and see how ego intertwines withall of this.
Thank you for listening toCocoaPods Podcast.
I'll see you next time.
You know, you act like and I'm talking to myself
now in the mirror you act likeyou're so perfect.
What if God threw all your sinsup to you?
What if he named you by yourevery sin you have done?
You know, would you like that?
So why would you do that toyour husband?
Dr Bola Sogade (00:36):
Welcome to CocoaPods podcast.
My name is Dr Bola Sogade andI'm a women's health specialist.
We continue our series fromlast week.
We've been talking with Lillianthat's her pseudonym and she's
been sharing her lifeexperiences, her marital
experiences, the difficultiesthat she's gone through and the
(00:57):
triumphs that she's had.
"Lillian" (01:00):
So I had to just do heart to heart talks to myself.
And even when those thoughtscome in my mind, I want to say
something.
I catch myself and say, youknow, jesus, you know, just help
me, help me.
And then my husband look at meand I said, no, I just want to
say thank you for cleaning thehouse.
You know, thank you for doingthat.
And he's like, oh, I appreciateit.
So it was.
I had to change my, my wordsand the way I thought, and it
(01:24):
was a challenge.
It was a challenge.
Now, you mentioned soul tie atsome point.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about that?
Soul ties, yes, so he had asoul tie, as in when he was with
this young lady, they used tohave matching outfits, they used
to go to places together, theyused to buy each other, they was
in a relationship.
You know like they was.
(01:45):
And so, todd, he couldn't letgo.
Even when he came back to me atthat time he still was talking,
conversating with her, lettingher know oh, it's going to this,
oh, it's not this.
And I don't know what me and mywife is doing.
She's fussing, she's fighting,just like giving her a report
about what's going on in thehouse that he can't let her go.
(02:07):
You know, even though if thecounselor, the pastor, was
telling him change your number,oh, I can't change my number or
get rid of clothes.
He had clothes that he boughtwhen he was with her and he
didn't want to get rid of.
And I was explaining to thepastor like this young lady sent
me over 50 pictures of themtogether.
(02:29):
You know this is embedded in mymind 50 pictures, family
portraits with her and herfamily, like they was all.
He had a whole double life andI can't get these images out of
my mind.
And when I see his clothes he'swearing, these are the same
clothes and he won't get rid ofthem.
And that's what he's trying toexplain to him.
You got a soul tie, you need tolet that go.
(02:50):
He was like no, these are myclothes and so tired.
Is this something that you'rehaving sexual activities or
you're connected to a spiritthat is is evil and not in God
intention for you and and youcan't let go, he couldn't let go
.
Dr Bola Sogade (03:06):
So that's what the pastor brought up when he
said so how do you deal withthat Now that he's no longer
with that lady and he's backwith you?
How do you deal with the factthat there is this soul tie?
"Lillian" (03:18):
It was hard Cause like, like I said, it was days
that I will be talking tosomeone and I zone out, and they
can just be talking to melaughing, and I laugh and I zone
out thinking, and then it'slike, hey, you heard me.
It's like, oh, yeah, I heardyou.
You know, just zone out.
And when I start doing that, Inoticed that I lost myself.
(03:38):
And so how I dealt with it, asI said before, I had to spend
time with myself to heal becauseI never healed properly.
I thought I healed but I didn'theal properly.
So I'll write anything thatbothered me.
I used to write it down.
If I got mad at him, if I wantto say some bad things to him,
I'll write it down.
Write it down and I'll ball itup and I'll throw it away.
(03:59):
And then I started speakinglife into him out of my mouth,
because you have to understand,kids are listening.
And I remember growing up in myhousehold.
I was listening to my parents.
I heard all those things thatmom and dad was saying to each
other and I was repeating thecycle and I had to be the cycle
breaker.
So I was like, well, what do Ineed to do?
(04:20):
So I start writing it down,throwing it away to do so, I
started writing it down,throwing it away.
Or I started going and justtaking long rides by myself,
screaming, yelling, because thethoughts was there, the imaging
in my mind was there in my headand I couldn't let it go.
Even when I look at him, evenif he got back intimate, the
thoughts was there, you know,and he knew it.
(04:41):
And I looked him in his faceone day and said I need to heal
and I need time.
I don't know how much time it'sgoing to take, but I need it.
And he said take all the timeyou need.
And I just spent time with God.
I read books, I prayed, I cried, I wrote stuff down, I
journaled and asked myself whydid I stay so long?
(05:02):
You know, why did I allow thisto happen?
And ask myself why did I stayso long?
You know, why did I allow thisto happen?
What's wrong with me?
You know?
Am I insecure or do I notdeserve love?
All those things happen.
But the beauty of it all waswhen I found out who the young
lady was.
She called me, remember, I toldyou.
My mom said so.
(05:22):
She called me and she said shewas crying on the phone and I
guess they got into a fight.
And she called me and she saidcome get your husband.
And I say, excuse me.
And she said come get yourhusband.
And I said, baby, what time isit?
And she said it was about sixor seven and it was about three
(05:43):
or four in the morning.
I said honey and this is me nowbecause, keep in mind, I was
over him.
I said my office hours arebetween eight and nine.
Call me back at eight and wecan talk about it.
I said how long y'all beentalking?
She said, oh, we've beentogether for a year.
I said he's my husband, butthat's your man.
Whatever y'all got going on,you go figure it out and I hung
the phone up.
I went back to sleep.
I went back to sleep because Iwas over him.
Dr Bola Sogade (06:04):
And you could sleep.
"Lillian" (06:06):
I slept good, I filed for divorce.
I mean, you know, I filed and Iwas over him, I was done.
And she called back and thatcry I heard.
I knew I know that cry andthat's the cry I used to cry all
the time.
I got up out of my bed and Isaid are you okay?
And she said no, I said I'm onmy way.
Dr Bola Sogade (06:30):
What time was?
This it was about four in themorning.
You called the doctor.
"Lillian" (06:34):
No, she called me back.
Dr Bola Sogade (06:35):
Oh, she called you back, crying.
So, the second time.
"Lillian" (06:39):
Uh-huh, uh-huh the second time and I went to her
house Four o'clock in themorning by myself.
She could have killed me, shecould have did anything.
Dr Bola Sogade (06:47):
And your husband was there.
"Lillian" (06:48):
No, he left.
They got into an argument and Iwent to her and I hugged her.
Dr Bola Sogade (06:54):
Wow.
"Lillian" (06:55):
I hugged her and she cried on my shoulder and she
said I'm sorry.
I said I know you are.
I said, but you are strongerand you are better than this.
I said I forgive you.
I said, but I want you toforgive yourself.
And she said I'm not going togo back to him.
I said yes, you are, you lovehim.
Dr Bola Sogade (07:14):
I said you're going to go back to him.
"Lillian" (07:17):
Had you given up on him?
Then yes, I said, yes, you are,you love him and you're going
to go back to him.
Know your worth.
And she said I'm, you know, I'mnot going to do this, no more.
I'm sorry, he told me.
I said I know he lied to you.
I said but at some point youknew he was married too.
And I'm hugging her this wholetime.
She could have stabbed me in myback, she could have did
(07:39):
anything.
I'm by myself, but she, shecried so bad on my arm and I
didn't cry with her.
It was just like I wasconsoling myself.
I saw her in me and I held herand I hugged her and I prayed
for her right then and there.
Dr Bola Sogade (07:53):
I mean, how can you?
Some women out there we want toknow, how can you do that?
I mean, this is your husband'sgirlfriend for one year she
calls you in the dead of thenight, crying, and you went to
her and you never met her before, never.
I mean what was going throughyour head?
"Lillian" (08:15):
Um, a woman that needed support because at that
time, like I said, I was overhim.
But I heard a woman that wasnaive.
I heard me on the other end andI wanted someone to do that to
me.
So I heard she needed somebodythere.
(08:37):
So I went to her, I hugged her.
I didn't have a scare ornervousness in my bone.
I just heard a woman thatneeded grace.
She needed grace, she neededforgiveness, she needed love.
At that time she needed someoneto tell her that you know, God
(08:58):
still love you, but you have tolove yourself and you have to
know what you did is wrong, Um,but you're going to have to
learn how to love yourself andget you know, give yourself
grace to that he.
He did, he did trick you, hedidn't manipulate you, he did
lie to you.
But you have to learn how tolove yourself.
Dr Bola Sogade (09:16):
Now, part of the manipulation can also come from
the woman in which they trappedthe man and actually started
family.
They started family together.
"Lillian" (09:24):
She was pregnant.
She was pregnant.
I found that out later on.
She was pregnant, but they hadan abortion.
They had an abortion.
I found that out later on.
So all that was in my mind.
You know, she was pregnant andthey had an abortion, which I
don't really think.
He wanted that baby, but hedidn't stop her for not doing it
(09:47):
like that, yeah.
So, yeah, she, she shared thatwith me too and at the time I
wasn't.
I wasn't angry when she told methat because, again, I was over
him.
I wasn't angry.
I was hurting for her becauseshe had to go through that.
And I looked at him when shetold me.
Then I realized at that time too, she was being manipulative
(10:08):
because she's trying to tell meall these things to get me to go
away so she can be with him.
Because, keep in mind, I said,he's a provider, good with money
, good with providing, good withtaking care of you.
So when I realized that earlyon what she was trying to do,
after I didn't hug her, told her, god, after I did all of that,
I said, oh, I know this tactic,what is she trying to do?
(10:30):
And I looked at him and I saidshe's never going to forget this
.
You ought to be ashamed ofyourself.
And he said no, she, you know,blaming it on her and everything
like this.
And it was crazy.
He was just blaming everythingon her and she wanted it.
I said so what do you want?
I don't want no baby bodies,this woman.
I said did you hear that?
Yeah, he didn't say that.
(10:52):
The other night I said, ofcourse, you know, of course, but
she was naive once, like I was,and still calling him.
He was still calling her.
That's that soul tie thepreacher was talking about.
They were still, even after allthat even he called her out her
name.
I don't want you, I want mywife.
You are this, you are that, youare this and this and
(11:16):
da-da-da-da, and still keptcalling her.
So that's that soul tie thatthe pastor was explaining to him
and educating him and us bothabout.
Dr Bola Sogade (11:24):
So you know, fast forward now.
You guys have been togetherafter this for how long, oh?
"Lillian" (11:33):
six years.
Dr Bola Sogade (11:35):
And you said he changed.
"Lillian" (11:38):
He has, he changed.
But in the beginning I didn't.
I didn't want to change, Iwanted to hold on.
I wanted to be a.
If I could have been a witch, Iwould have, I would have cast
spells, I would have did and Iknow it sounds so evil, but if I
could have, I would have.
That's how angry and that's howI allowed hatred and
(12:02):
unforgiveness to settle in mybody, because I didn't.
You know, I tell you, I forgiveyou, but I really don't.
And all that hatred and stuffstart coming up and yeah, if, oh
, but he, he changed.
He, he did a 360.
God was doing a major thing inhim, but not for me.
I didn't want to change, Ididn't want to change at all.
(12:24):
I was mean and I was hateful.
Dr Bola Sogade (12:28):
So what is helping you change now?
"Lillian" (12:31):
That talk.
I had time to heal after I hadthat talk with him and told him
I need to heal.
I need time because I can'tkeep doing this.
This is not a Christian way.
This is not how God attend formarriage to be and you don't
deserve this, you know.
So I heal.
He gave me time to heal.
(12:51):
That mean, he just gave mespace.
Dr Bola Sogade (12:53):
So space away from him.
"Lillian" (12:55):
He was, he'll work.
He'll pick up more hours atwork and he'll let me.
He'll go sleep in the otherroom or he'll, you know, he'll
go get, take the kids somewhereto have me a spa day.
You know, he'll probably get aspa day for me.
He used to buy me journals.
He used to put in the old musicin the house settling music,
something to ease my mind in thehouse and just let just, let me
(13:17):
be so he.
He, let he, let me be so he,let me just sit in it.
Sit in it, you know, and he'llask me do you need anything, do
you?
You know?
No, just get away from me, youknow stuff like that.
So, yeah, so I healed from thatand it took time, a lot of
forgiveness for myself.
I had to forgive myself forstaying because I didn't.
(13:38):
I'm like, why did I?
I had to forgive myself forstaying.
I had to forgive myself forstaying because I didn't.
I'm like, why did I?
I had to forgive myself forstaying.
I had to forgive myself forloving someone more than I love
myself.
I had to forgive myself.
And once I learned how toforgive myself and it came easy.
And then I learned how to notworry about what nobody think,
because I'm like well, whatpeople going to think if we get
a divorce?
I don't want people to knowthey're going to say it's my
(13:59):
fault Because you know, and thatwas my second thing.
But once I learned to overcomethat and just stayed in the word
and just know that God had usand had me, everything just
flowed after that.
Dr Bola Sogade (14:15):
Now, while you were healing, were you guys
intimate Were?
"Lillian" (14:19):
you guys intimate.
I tried not to, but I think themore we were intimate, I think
it helped us.
Because I didn't want to,because I think it was just sex.
I didn't.
It's like, oh, it's sex,because I don't love you like
that, no more.
Because even when we got backtogether I didn't love him.
(14:42):
But remember what I said in thebeginning of the podcast, that I
didn't marry for love, Imarried for stability.
So all that when I was healingall that came to me.
You didn't even love this man,in love with him when you
married him.
You loved him because you lovedhim enough to marry, but wasn't
in love.
You married him for thesereasons.
You knew what he was doing, youknew you had some type of.
(15:11):
You knew, but you still marriedhim because that was what you
taught, that's what you wastaught growing up to do.
So God showed me that he wasshowing me me and that's when I
learned how to love him properly.
So the intimacy after that wasjust good because I learned how
to love him and I realized and Ihad to go to my husband and
apologize and tell him I didn'tknow how to be a wife, just like
(15:34):
he didn't know how to be ahusband.
I'm learning and as well ashe's learning how to be a
husband.
We're gonna learn together howto work this thing out and we're
going to break generationcurses together and I want to
love you properly, just like Iwant you to love me properly,
and I'm going to, you know I'm.
We're teaching each other howto love each other properly and
(15:55):
how to love each other, you know.
So once I learned that with him,it became easier and you know,
we the disrespect and all thatstuff, it ceased and it stopped.
And when I, god was showing me,when I got out of God way,
that's when he showed me likeyou know, if you get out of my
way, I'll show you, I'll do it.
(16:16):
So I, that's when the theworldly eyes was taken off of me
and God was showing me thespiritual eyes of him, of my
husband, and I could say, oh,okay, I could see him and you
had used the word cover him.
Dr Bola Sogade (16:29):
Someone was mad at you or somebody said you
should have covered him.
What does that mean?
"Lillian" (16:35):
Mom told me.
She said you got to learn howto cover your husband.
That means pray for him.
Instead of going to get on thephone talking to your
girlfriends, talking to peopleabout your husband and pointing
out his insecurities, you know,learn how to go to God and say
you know, cover him.
Cover him, pray for him,protect him, ask God for
(16:55):
protection over his life.
Whatever you don't understandabout him, go to God, because
your friends didn't create him,god created him.
They don't understand it.
You guys are going to be on thephone talking two, three hours
about the same thing with both.
Oh, your husband do this, myhusband do that too.
Girl, but God was, you know,she was like.
You got to learn how to coveryour husband.
Go to God, god, I don'tunderstand this about him.
(17:17):
Teach me about him.
Teach me how to pray for him.
Teach me what to say, how toapproach him.
Is the words I'm saying notenough?
And even sometimes that willwork, sometimes that won't work,
but you just don't give up,because if he wants to change,
he'll change.
He'll change.
If he wants to receive it, hewill receive it.
And he did, he did.
Dr Bola Sogade (17:40):
Wow.
So now you guys are together,you're doing a spiritual journey
together.
Are you still in counselingtogether?
"Lillian" (17:47):
We are.
We're still in counseling how?
Dr Bola Sogade (17:49):
frequently do you?
"Lillian" (17:51):
We do it every month .
We was doing it twice a month,but now we do it every month
With a Christian counselor.
Dr Bola Sogade (17:57):
Yes.
"Lillian" (17:57):
Christian counselor.
He was doing it with themilitary counselor.
He does one privately byhimself and we'll do it together
and it works.
But it also works when wecounsel each other together.
So now we do this, we check in,we do a check in with each
other.
Now, how are you doing today?
Is there anything you'd like totalk about?
(18:18):
Is there something that we needto discuss today?
Did I say anything to offendyou today?
You know, let's talk about usand we check in with each other,
see where we at mentally, seewhere we at spiritually.
How can I be of service to youtoday?
You know things that we neverdid before because we wanted to
make it work.
I don't, I do not, encouragenobody to do what I do.
(18:43):
Uh, and lest you believe infighting, just cause this is a
fight that you will doubt yourfaith.
You will, you know, doeverything to that.
That is not godly, but I will.
I won't encourage nobody to doit, but if I can do it, you can
do it too.
I'm letting anyone else,anybody out there, know that
(19:06):
who's going through a divorce orwho's dealing with infidelity
in a marriage, you still want tofight and you still believe
there is hope.
There is hope.
But if you believe to let it go, let it go.
Also go to counseling first.
Exhort all your options beforeyou make your final decision.
But it is life after infidelity.
Dr Bola Sogade (19:27):
Wow, do you feel your children are grounded more
because you've had this fightand you stayed in it for them
and they see both parents?
"Lillian" (19:35):
They see both parents.
They see their dad as they seehim changing.
Because my oldest, when I toldmy husband I would get a divorce
and we call the kids in and saywe're getting divorced, my
oldest cried and he said why areyou doing this to me, mommy?
And I'm looking at him like didyou not know what your dad had
(19:56):
just did?
But he, they look at mommy, youknow, why are you doing this to
me, mommy?
You're breaking up our family.
And my baby said you're makingme a statistic.
It's like how would I make yourstatistic?
He said you're making me growup without a father, you know,
and that broke my heart becauseit's like you don't even
understand.
You know, and I also realizedwhy some people stay in broken
(20:19):
marriages for the kids becausethey want to, you know, keep
that father and the household istoxic.
That's what my mom did.
So I saw my kids.
I saw me and my kids.
So I was like I got to stop thecycle.
So the healing was necessaryfor me because my mama never
healed.
To this day.
They've been divorced for over30 years, to this day.
She still talks about it tothis day.
(20:41):
If I can say something aboutsomething she's like oh yeah, I
remember your daddy used to likemama.
That was like 40 years ago andI had to break the cycle.
I was like I can't do that.
I can't continue to talk aboutsomething that hurt me that long
.
I got to let that go.
So the healing started with usand he's like I said.
We've been together for fiveyears since then and it was not
(21:06):
easy, but it was worth it.
Dr Bola Sogade (21:08):
Yeah, I see the huge ring on your the cute
diamond rock on your finger.
"Lillian" (21:15):
So yeah, yeah, wow, he's a gift giver and I only you
know I'm not materialistic, buthe is, so of course I say he's
a gift giver but we're takingcare of the inside and the out.
So, cause the outside couldlook good, but that inside can
be tore up.
So I want to take, I want thatinside to be good, because I
didn't, this ring was justsitting, I didn't wear it for
(21:38):
years, I didn't wear it foryears and I put it back on when
that inside start looking good,because I can't, I can't show
you my outside Like girl, yes,everything, oh, we doing good,
but that inside is terrible.
So once that inside got goodbecause your household is your
first ministry, so once myministry, or my church, which is
(22:01):
my family, got into one, webecame one and we came in order,
and that's when I was like,okay, I can put the ring back on
.
Dr Bola Sogade (22:11):
And do you feel you broke the generational curse
?
"Lillian" (22:14):
I did.
Dr Bola Sogade (22:15):
Because you said something about his grandfather
, yep.
"Lillian" (22:18):
His grandfather, uncles.
He said that's all he saw.
That didn't?
They didn't you know theycheated on their wives or
girlfriends.
And he thought that you know,that's what men do.
And he's actually.
He actually talked to young menand other merit men about his
experience, what he has done,and he also encouraged him.
And the thing he told me was hesaid he apologized and he said
(22:43):
it was a mix of pieces.
You know, each year or each,whatever I mean, he'll come and
tell me you know things.
And when we talk like, do youwant to say something?
And he'll say I was insecure.
He said I was selfish.
He said I was a very selfishindividual.
I didn't care about nobody, noteven my kids.
He said I got married too youngand I didn't want a family.
(23:07):
And just to hear him say thosewords, I wanted to slap the fire
out of his mouth because yousaying you got married too young
, you didn't want to be marriedand you didn't want kids at that
young age, and so you decidedto do what you want to do
because you still want, you wantto have your fun, eat it too.
I was livid.
Like I can up and leave.
I couldn't take a break if Iwant to take a break, you know.
(23:30):
But to hear those words I wantedto slap him down, but I had to
sit in it and listen because Ican't Sometimes.
We got to learn how to be quietand listen.
The truth don't have to bepretty sometimes, but it's the
truth and that's his truth.
And I had to listen and refrainfrom just going off and just
(23:50):
say I get it.
And I did get it, becausesometimes I want to run away, I
want to run away from kids, Iwant to run away from life.
I want to do this and I get it,but I can't.
And he did.
And that moment I was like howare you crazy?
You know, that was his truth.
The bow and everything wasn'tpretty, but that was his truth.
(24:10):
Crazy, you know that was histruth.
Dr Bola Sogade (24:13):
The bowl and everything wasn't pretty, but
that was his truth.
So, lillian, you, we justyou've shared, we're just so
grateful to you for coming toCoco Pods podcast um, for
sharing your lived experience.
Like I said, not everybody hasthis wonderful story to tell and
I like the fact that you saidyou know for people at the verge
of separation, at the verge ofdivorce, if you feel you have a
(24:36):
fight in you and you want tofight for it, especially if you
have children involved and um,you know you are safe, you know
he's not like actively trying tokill you, yeah, yeah, yeah,
then fight, fight fight, fight,fight.
"Lillian" (24:51):
Because you're not wrestling between him, you're
wrestling between generationcurses.
You're fighting demons.
You're fighting stuff that way,before our time, that he's been
battling with.
We're fighting society.
You're fighting stuff.
Men go through all the time andI'm not just talking about this
infidelity.
They go through a lot.
You know.
Sometimes, as women, we pushthem away where sometimes they
(25:14):
just don't know, especially whenyou're married young.
They just don't know, notexcusing no man or saying no,
they just don't know.
We're too individual and thatis what God is.
We are too imperfect peopledeserving a perfect God.
We're imperfect, so we're goingto have challenges, not saying
to stay though.
Now, if you want to leave andyou're like I'm done, hey, be
(25:37):
done.
And, like I said, the onlyreason I stayed is because I
healed and I realized that I waspart of the problem.
I was part of the problem.
I was part of the problembecause I wasn't honest when we
got married.
I didn't love you.
I loved you, but it wasn'tenough.
I was part of the problembecause I wasn't honest when we
got married.
I didn't love you.
I loved you, but it wasn'tenough.
(25:58):
I was part of the problembecause I allowed him to
disrespect me for so long andnot had a voice.
I was part of the problem andthat's a problem, because you
don't stand up for yourself andyou let people keep running over
you and running over you.
I was part of the problem isbecause I didn't know how to be
a wife and that could be aproblem, because if you don't
know how to be a wife and hedon't know how to be a husband,
that's just my theory of it.
I had to learn how to be a wife.
(26:18):
As a woman, we know we talk toomuch.
We want to go on the phone andgospel and yell, but that's what
I saw.
That's what I saw.
I saw aggressiveness, I sawcussing out, I saw pointing
fingers, I saw manipulationgrowing up in my household and I
thought that's how you functionand that was part of the
problem.
He didn't.
He didn't grow up like that.
So when I had to takeaccountability for stuff that I
(26:41):
did not excuse what he did, butstuff that I've done I've looked
up.
I looked at phones and lookedat men with big muscles before
and so, oh Jesus, he's fine.
And looked at men with bigmuscles before and said, oh
Jesus, he's fine.
You don't think God said okay,because in the Bible they say
even look, I mean it's in yourheart, you're seeing, that's
adultery, you know.
So I had to look at all of thatstuff and say, god, okay, and
(27:04):
do I want God to call me by allmy sins that I did or thought
about?
You know?
Do I want that?
So and he became my best friendagain Before we got married.
He's my best friend and wefound our friendship again.
And once we found ourfriendship, the intimacy became
better again.
Dr Bola Sogade (27:23):
Wow, Lilian.
Thank you so much.
In our upcoming episode we talkmore with Lillian and Charles
and see how ego intertwines withall of this.
Thank you for listening toCocoaPods Podcast.
I'll see you next time.
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