March 14, 2024 • 30 mins
When the vows of 'till death do us part' warp into a tale of betrayal and heartbreak, the journey to reclaiming one's joy can be arduous and transformative. Lillian's story, veiled under a pseudonym, is a gripping narrative that not only uncovers the raw pain of infidelity but also the empowering ascent towards healing. From the deceptive tranquility of her early marriage to the tumultuous discovery of her husband's unfaithfulness, Lillian's account is a profound exploration of love, loss, and the often-overlooked courage it takes to start afresh.
This episode is a mosaic of emotions, with each piece reflecting a different shade of Lillian's experience—from the daunting task of piecing together clues of betrayal to the gut-wrenching acceptance of her ten-year marriage's end. The poignant tales of motherhood in the midst of chaos, and the quest for spiritual clarity, paint a vivid picture of the resilience embedded deep within the human spirit. We walk with Lillian through the corridors of counseling sessions, family advice, and the quiet introspection that leads to life-changing decisions, ultimately embarking on a path that promises a future unshackled from the past.
In the sanctity of confessions and spiritual awakenings, our conversation with Lillian takes an inspiring turn as she speaks of finding solace in prayer, learning to let go of bitterness, and the pivotal role of faith in her healing process. Her journey is not just one of recovery but also of rebirth—discovering the essence of a true partnership and the strength to build a harmonious relationship. Lillian's narrative is a beacon of hope, a testament to the indomitable will to find happiness and love again, and a compelling portrayal of the power of prayer and forgiveness in the face of life's most profound challenges.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr Bola Sogade (00:00):
Hello and welcome to CocoaPods podcast.
Today, we're very fortunate tohave Lillian Of course, we've
changed the name, this is apseudonym and she's going to
talk to us about her journey,her experience with
relationships, marriage,actually and so, lillian,
welcome to CocoaPods podcast.
"Lillian" (00:20):
Oh, thank you so much .
I'm so excited to be here.
Dr Bola Sogade (00:24):
So you know, you told us about your journey with
your partner now.
"Lillian" (00:28):
Yeah.
Dr Bola Sogade (00:30):
And about some of the difficulties that you
guys had and that you guysmarried early.
Can you just tell us about?
You know how you know you firstgot together and the problems
that you guys had?
Yeah, you know you first gottogether and the problems that
you guys had.
"Lillian" (00:44):
Yeah.
So we got together in collegevery young, on 17, 18, went to
college together, just gotmarried at 22, 23, young.
And then that's when theexperience of marriage happened,
as I like to call it.
Everything was, you know, bloom.
(01:04):
You're 18, 17 in love and well,thank you in love.
And so that's when the marriagehappened.
After the wedding was over, Ilike to say that the wedding was
over because, you know, we getthe glitz and glam and the oh,
you know, your wedding's sobeautiful.
I want my wedding to be likethis and be like that.
And now marriage happened.
(01:26):
So marriage happened very earlyon in our marriage.
I want to say right aftermarriage actually.
But it's crazy because signswill show way before then, but
we choose to ignore the signsand, honestly, I got married for
stability.
I didn't get married because oflove.
(01:47):
I was never taught that.
I was taught to get married andget someone that would take
care of you.
You know, love will come.
That's what I was told.
And so I got married the wrongway, you know.
And so I got married the wrongway, you know.
And so I got married forstability, not saying I didn't
love him, but the love that heshould have gotten from me being
(02:11):
saying I do, and this is theone.
You know.
You made your vow in front ofGod.
It should have been more thanwhat I was giving, and I found
that out later on.
As I had, god had to deal withme and sit me in a quiet room
with myself to, you know,reflect on me, and I had to
reflect on me.
He showed me me and I had torealize that.
Dr Bola Sogade (02:34):
Okay, so you know the initial years.
You know you guys were together, you guys actually had two kids
, but then there were problemsthat made you actually leave the
relationship.
"Lillian" (02:48):
Yes, so very early on .
As I said, the science wasthere but I choose to ignore.
So my problems was infidelityvery early on, infidelity,
insecurities, as they say, mendon't grow up until they,
whatever age, and he justwouldn't want to grow and I was
growing and so infidelitystarted real early with us.
(03:11):
I want to say not within noteven a year of being married.
Dr Bola Sogade (03:15):
It happened and that was with him.
With him, okay.
And so you said you had alittle private detective thing
going on there girl.
"Lillian" (03:25):
I was a private detective, I was a police
officer, I was everything.
So I how?
I found out?
Well, of course, like thescience was always there, your
women intuition, but it wasearly on.
Like women call the house orcall his phone and, um, he'll
say, oh no, that's just a friend, or you know no, or he'd stand
out late than usual, you know,and I was young.
(03:48):
So I was just like, oh well,maybe he's at the club, I don't
want to.
You know, we had the baby young, so maybe he just want to still
party.
You know not my naive thinking,but I knew something, but I
didn't know.
So when I start being thedetective, as I like to call it,
going through the phones andnotice his patterns, like okay,
every time he leaves he alwaystake his phone, or oh, he's
(04:17):
locking his phone more often, orhe's staying out more often, or
why he's always leaving to gotalk on the phone.
So when I started noticing that, I was like something is going
on.
So yeah, that's when I knew hewas cheating, having affairs.
I was like something is goingon.
Dr Bola Sogade (04:24):
So yeah, that's when I knew he was cheating,
having affairs and you said youconfronted him with this, like
you know, angrily and stuff likethat.
"Lillian" (04:31):
Yes, so I confronted him with it early on and of
course it was always I'm sorry.
And my husband was a gift giver, was a gift giver, and he, he,
if he did something wrong here,go buy a gift you know, flowers,
(04:52):
or card or car, anything to saymy sorry gift.
So in our, as young as I was, Iaccepted it.
And growing up, how I grew up,I saw that pattern.
I saw those toxicity, as I liketo call it, or dysfunction
family, as in the husband,grandpa was cheating, my dad was
doing that too and my mom usedto just pray.
(05:15):
We'll just pray about it.
So as I saw that, I was like,well, maybe that's what I'm
supposed to do.
So that's what I started doing,just grabbing his hand.
Every time I catch him on thephone or catch something, grab
his hand and just say, well,we're going to work it out, it's
okay, and we'll pray, and abouttwo weeks he'll be fine and
then he'll get right back at it.
It was just a pattern.
(05:35):
It was a pattern.
It went on for years.
Dr Bola Sogade (05:37):
Wow, and so did you like reach out to.
Well, you said you talked toyour mom, but did you reach out
to anybody like counseling, orchurch or family members?
"Lillian" (05:49):
No, because I was one embarrassed to growing up in my
family home that you know youdon't tell people your business,
for one, and into counselingand stuff wasn't an option.
You don't need counseling.
Was your Jesus?
Jesus is your counseling.
So that's what I was doing.
And need counseling was yourJesus.
Jesus is your counseling.
So that's what I was doing.
And I was like mom, this is notworking.
I saying Jesus ain't doing whathe's supposed to do.
(06:10):
But no, you don't need to tellpeople your business.
You know, whatever goes on inyour house goes on in your house
and things like that.
That's what just men do.
Men do that.
But but that was my grandmother.
Now my mom was married for 16years to my dad and she
experienced it as well 60 years,16.
16.
(06:31):
16 years she had me at 16, so Ireally grew up with mommy and
so they got divorced in her 30sand I was 18.
So I now saw the same patterns,same thing my dad was doing.
I seen my husband was doingthat and I'd recognize the
patterns early on.
Only only thing I didn't seewas the fight in my mom.
(06:55):
I saw her being submissive,kept going back and I thought,
well, that's, I guess that'swhat you're supposed to do.
You pray about it and you getback together.
I guess this is what marriageis about.
And yeah, until that day when Ifinally left and I told my mom
and she had that heart to hearttalk and that's when I realized,
oh, that's not what she wantedto do.
(07:16):
And she explained to me youknow, sometimes you got to do
what you got to do for the kidsor for that moment until you
gather your thoughts to figureout how to leave, like get an
exit.
So that's why she stayed.
So we had that heart to heartmoment at, I want to say, about
10 years into marriage.
That's when I had enough and Itold him no, I found out about
(07:44):
he was just mom had a slight,was going through.
She had a slight heart attack.
Mom did.
Mom had breast cancer twice andthen she had a slight heart
attack, just stress.
She's already divorced dad atthis time and me and my husband
was just going through it andmom went to the hospital and I
was just livid.
I wasn't working and trying tofind a job with two kids.
(08:07):
He was working.
He's always been a breadwinnerand he's always been good
stability-wise.
So I was like, okay, I was ahousewife.
So I finally had thatconversation with my mom.
My mom was sick and so I wentto the hospital to be with her.
Um, when I realized, like I camehome one day and I was just, I
(08:29):
was just exhausted being amother, because I lost myself,
being a wife, being a mother,just lost my identity, you know,
um, because I was so muchcatering to him, trying to be
his everything, because Icouldn't, couldn't fathom, like,
why are you trying to?
Why are you cheating?
I'm, I cook, I clean.
You know I don't do this.
I'm the perfect wife, I pray, Igo to church.
Why, you know?
(08:50):
And I couldn't figure it outuntil later on.
So, but it's, but it's goodthat I had that talk with mama
um, after she had when she wentthrough, and I called my husband
, she was in hospital and, um, Isaid I'm done, we need to talk,
and he was like, well, I'm done.
And I called my husband.
She was in the hospital and Isaid I'm done, we need to talk,
and he was like, well, I'm doneand I'm leaving.
I was like what I said?
(09:11):
Well, you don't come to myhouse, You're not coming in his
house late.
If you come to his house late,we're done.
So he did it anyway.
So, and usually when he doesthat, I still take him back.
You, I still take them back.
You know we'll fight for us andwe'll come back.
But that particular time I wasdone.
It was 10 years.
I was like I'm not goinganother 10 years and I was like
we're done.
And he said, well, fine.
(09:32):
And when he said fine, it'skind of like, oh, you got
somebody else, because usuallyhe'll say no, let's talk about
it.
Remember, he was a gift giver.
He'll just give gifts, sorrygifts, and I was so used to the
pattern.
But then when he said fine, Iwas like oh, you got somebody.
But it didn't register becauseI still had to take him home, I
(09:52):
still had to be a mom and I hadto still be there for everyone
else.
You know, as women we wear manyhats we're sister, counselor,
mother, we're a housekeeper,we're, you know, we're shelves,
shelves.
We're everything to everyone.
And at that moment I was like Ican't be that, his wife to you.
I have to be everything to mamaat the time.
So, yeah, so once he left, I itwas like bang, you know, okay,
(10:19):
he know, or do I know you?
know it was confusion, like dodo he know I'm not?
Do he know I'm tired?
Or is it my fault this time?
Is he really going to be there?
But I can't focus on thatbecause mom in the hospital.
And so once mom got out thehospital I called him and he
made it seem he was amanipulator.
(10:40):
He made it seem like it was myfault.
And so I tried everything, stillas a wife, to say, oh, let me
pray, let's, let's pray here, gome again, let's pray, not
saying nothing wrong withpraying, but all let's pray, let
this, let's come together anddo this.
And then that's when we went tocounseling, went to counseling
and in the counseling he toldthe counseling it was my fault,
(11:01):
I didn't want to do this, I wasthis, I was that.
And I'm like, oh, my God, youknow, is it me?
That's why he's doing thesethings, not knowing at the time
he was all.
He was always with anotherwoman.
He was with this woman, but hewas he.
I didn't know, but he wasputting it out on me Like it's
my fault and he's just single.
He's staying in a hotel, butall the while, while we were in
(11:23):
counseling everything, he waswith another woman staying with
her.
Dr Bola Sogade (11:26):
At the time, Wow , that must have been shameful
for you.
"Lillian" (11:31):
Mm-hmm, it was shameful and how I found out
that he was with the other woman.
I let go.
After two, three months hewasn't home.
He left and I kept calling him.
He didn't answer and it waschange for my kids because they
(11:52):
so used to seeing him every dayfor not seeing him every day.
They was running track.
At the time, my oldest and heused to go pick them up and, you
know, help them with homeworkand he just stopped.
He just stopped and they didn'tknow what's going on.
They're young.
Dr Bola Sogade (12:09):
And this is their dad.
That's their dad.
"Lillian" (12:11):
Yep, they didn't know what was going on Like what
happened to dad, and I couldn'texplain it Family coming over
asking where he is in.
My escape goal was he's in themilitary.
So, oh, he's went, he went to,he went to drill or he went on
vacation or, um, he went awaywith the military.
So that was my escape goal forsix months because of the shame
because the shame.
I didn't want no one to know,didn't want to tell my mom.
(12:32):
But mom knew she was waiting onme.
So once she got, well, andeverything, six months passed
and no, still he was doing thesame thing, and let me put that
out there still didn't know hewas with that woman, still
didn't know he was staying withher.
And but God was bringing dreamsto me, okay, and he was
bringing dreams.
One dream, okay, and he wasbringing dreams.
(12:53):
One dream I had was I wasdreaming I was in my house, but
my house was full of snakes,right, and I'm like, oh, my God,
you know.
And but this one snake, it wasa man in the house getting the
snakes.
He said, oh, you got a lot ofsnakes.
He said, but you got one inyour private area, right, and he
pulled that snake out myprivate area and I woke up and I
(13:14):
was like what was that?
You know, jesus, you know whatis going on Somebody around me,
that's evil, you know.
Immediately I started praying,because I do believe in Jesus
and the devil.
Um so um, once that dream cameabout and I said well, god, what
is that?
What, what is, what is thatabout?
And then every time my husbandstarted coming around, he
(13:35):
started back answering the phoneand I was like well, why are
you not answering the phone?
You said you're in the hotel.
Still my shame and still mydenial.
He's like I'm at the hotel withmy friend and I called the
friend and the friend said he'snever stayed with me.
He said I'm not going to be init.
And I told him this is his guyfriend, best friend.
(13:58):
He said nope, he has not beenwith me, he has never stayed
with me.
And I said oh okay, he's likeno, he said I don't.
He said no, this is what hetold me.
He said you know your husbandbetter than me.
He said you tell me.
And that was like that denial,because what he was saying was
(14:19):
you already know your husband,jeet, so I don't need to tell
you what's going on, kind ofthing and so.
But I didn't have any evidence,you know, because he wasn't
there, I couldn't go throughphones.
I didn't know where he was he.
You know cause he?
He wasn't there.
I couldn't go through phones, Ididn't know where he was he.
You know, communication wasshort.
You talk about somebody who'sbeen married to for 10 years and
(14:40):
all of a sudden, allcommunication just cut off.
You know you're not talkingevery day.
I mean, he's just went ghost.
He went ghost on the children,the children they confused.
He was, I want to say he wasabout.
My baby was about nine or 10 atthe time, so he was confused.
I want to say my baby was about9 or 10 at the time, so he was
confused.
The oldest 9 or 10.
So the baby was about 4.
About 6, I want to say 6.
So they're confused.
They don't know what's going on.
(15:00):
I'm in denial, I'm ashamed.
And God was just giving medreams and he's giving me stuff.
I wasn't working and so I hadto find a job.
And then I started finding ajob in healthcare.
And I found a job in healthcareand I was doing good and, um
guys, god told me to stoppraying.
(15:21):
I heard with him just say prayand I'm like I want to leave.
So I got angry, I got bitterand then but it was also a sense
of relief Like oh, finally Ican let him go, finally we can
get a divorce.
But I was also bitter and I waslike God, why I'm bitter, he's
(15:42):
not here, I don't have to dealwith this anymore.
I can get a divorce.
So I filed for divorce and mymom called me one morning and
she said hey, she called meevery morning at six.
I said hey, and she said what'swrong.
I said nothing is wrong.
She said something is wrong.
(16:02):
I'm on my way.
I was like mom nothing is wrong, she said something is wrong.
So she came over, she sat downon the couch and she said what's
wrong?
And I told her.
It just came out and she said Iknew, I knew.
And she said this is what'sgoing to happen.
That woman she's going to callyou your husband's going to say
he's sorry and he never want tobe with her.
(16:23):
This is going to happen.
She just gave me the downplay.
Dr Bola Sogade (16:27):
Like a blueprint .
"Lillian" (16:29):
Like a blueprint.
Play the blueprint like a blue.
This is gonna happen and I waslike okay, like a playbook like
a playbook.
This is what's gonna happen.
And I kid you not, it happenedthe exact same way.
Mom happened not immediately,but it happened the exact same
way.
Um, so the dreams kept coming.
After I had that conversationwith mom, dreams kept coming.
So finally he started callingback right and answering the
(16:50):
phone because I got, I got a jobnow and and I was like, listen,
I get off, I need you to getthe kids.
And he was like, okay, you know.
So he started getting the kids.
But when I get off work, it'sjust like.
An exchange was so awkward.
And I remember one day when wewas, I was getting off and he
was leaving out the house.
He stopped me and he said canyou pray for me?
(17:11):
And, and he was leaving out thehouse, he stopped me and he
said can you pray for me?
And I was like why he's like Ineed for you to pray for me.
And we prayed together outsideof the house.
And that same day I enteredinside of the house and I looked
down our hallway and I seen anentity, literally an entity, a
person in my hallway and I was,of course, scared.
(17:33):
Who wouldn't be scared?
You think you see somebody?
And I'm like Lord now.
I know I believe in you and theenemy, but I know I ain't seen
no ghosts or no demon in myhouse.
Of course you hear about thesethings on TV People talk about
it already or whatever but me,seeing it for myself, I said
something is wrong and Iremember telling my mom, calling
(17:55):
my mom, and I told her and shewas like girl you know, and I
shared it with my husband andhis exact word was oh, they're
coming from me, they coming fromme, and I'm like what does that
mean?
You know what?
What are you talking about?
And so I was scared to sleep inmy own home.
For two days out of the week Istay at my mom's house because I
(18:18):
was scared to sleep in my ownhouse.
I've seen these entities everytime my husband leaves my house.
Dr Bola Sogade (18:23):
Where were the children?
"Lillian" (18:24):
They're in their bedrooms sleep because I got off
about 12 at night.
Dr Bola Sogade (18:28):
So when you stay at your mom's house, you take
them with you.
"Lillian" (18:35):
Mom go picks them up from school while I go to work
and they'll stay there, and thenI leave work and go stay with
mom.
Yeah, so it was, it was, it wasa time.
And then, um, he came and um,every time he came to that house
he'll leave something, as I say.
And uh, I was like, is this aparanormal activity?
What's going on?
Do I need an exorcist?
And I shared it with that's whenI started opening up with mom
(18:58):
and mom said you know, and I waslike well, mom, why did you
stay with my dad?
You know you stay with him.
And she said well, I'm nottelling you to stay.
She said, but I will tell youto do what's best for you.
She said that's your marriage.
I can't tell you what to do,but I'm not telling you to stay.
I said well, why did you stay?
She said because you guys wasyoung and I didn't want you to
(19:21):
grow up without a dad.
I said but I grew up in atoxicity environment.
I see you guys fight.
I never heard you I love youfrom you guys.
I never.
You got never seen you guysbeing affectionate.
I always saw you guys was madand angry.
And she said I didn't know thatI thought I was doing what's
best for y'all by staying withyour father, by keeping y'all
(19:41):
together, cause I thought I wasdoing what's best for the
children.
And she said now I realizedthat what's best for the
children is for you guys not tobe in a toxicity environment.
But it's too late for me, butit's not for you, so you did the
right thing.
She said I want you to let himgo.
And I was like, okay.
So that's when, of course, Ialready filed for divorce.
But I was hesitant because I'mlike do I Cause I still loved
(20:03):
him.
It's like, well, why do I stilllove him?
And she said that's natural.
She said but I want you toproceed with it.
And I was like, okay, I'm nottelling you what to do, but I
want you to, because I don'twant you to be like me, you know
, holding on to something for 16years and fighting with with
that thought, like did I do theright thing or did I not do it?
So yeah, so we had that talk andI never heard that from her and
(20:26):
she said you know, I was angryat my own mama for staying with
my daddy for doing the samething.
She said but my mama told mehe's taking care of you, you're
fed.
He don't do this, he don't dothat.
You got a roof over your head,right?
So go back to him.
It's worse things that could behappening.
And she said she never forgaveher mom for that and to be in
(20:48):
the same situation her mom inand now she has a daughter in
the same situation.
And I looked at her that dayand I said somebody got to stop
it, somebody got to stop thisgeneration curse.
Dr Bola Sogade (20:59):
Yeah, and I stopped it well, you said um,
you moved to another citybecause you, you, you felt
everybody was talking about you,you were ashamed of everything.
Can you just tell us about that?
"Lillian" (21:13):
Yeah.
So after I found out about theno let's, let's go back to the
dream.
So once I dreamed I was prayingfor him and everything like
that Fast forward, he's.
He's, he's in the military.
So he was about to leave and hewanted to see the children.
This is nine months.
While he was about to leave andhe wanted to see the children
this is nine months while he wasgone.
(21:34):
He left.
So it's about nine, ten months.
While he left and he said, well,I'm about to go.
I said can I see the kids?
Sure, you can come see thebabies.
And he left his bag and he said, hold on, I forgot my other bag
at the hotel.
I was like, okay, cool.
Well, nine months in, I haven'tseen him.
(21:56):
I'm off out for divorce, I'mabout to be done.
I don't care what you do,whatever the case may be.
I was at peace with just likewe're not going to be together,
we're co-parenting.
I was just trying to wrap myhead around like we're going to
be co-parenting.
I was just at peace and in mymind I moved on, you know, and I
went through his bag.
He left the bag and that's whenI saw another phone and on his
screensaver was him and the newwoman.
(22:19):
And that's when I was like, oh,you got a whole woman, you know
.
That's when I realized, and ofcourse I confronted him about it
, and all the emotion that Ithought I let go, that I moved
on from him, came back and I waslivid and I let out a cry so
bad.
(22:40):
And, um, I showed it to him.
Of course he lied and denied it.
Oh, that's, you know.
She wanted to do this.
So what do you get this newphone?
Why you got a new phone?
This is two phone.
So he was living a double life.
And that's when it it came toreality, like, here's your proof
, you know.
Dr Bola Sogade (22:57):
And of course he lied and um, you used the word
that if you were a witch, youwould have put it if I was a
witch, I would have put a curseon him and that girl.
"Lillian" (23:06):
I was so angry, I was so bitter.
I was like Lord, I'm angry andI can't.
I can't, I don't know how notto be angry.
If you say a, if you say a nameclose to his or to that girl
name, I, if I was a witch, Icatch a spell.
Yes, I was bitter, I was bitter.
(23:27):
I was angry because I'm likewhy would you do this to me?
I never did anything to you tohurt you in that matter of way.
Why would you do that to me?
Of course, the lies kept comingand, um, yeah, so I, I, I
packed up and I moved, he, he,he.
He said, well, I have a job.
No, he said, I have a job andwould you like to go?
And I was like sure.
(23:48):
So we ended up moving there and, um, I told him you stay back,
you stay back in Florida, andI'm going to move.
And that's how I startedhealing.
Dr Bola Sogade (24:01):
So you went with the children.
I mean you had to get anapartment, get a job, really
start a new life and you knowfast forward.
You know you guys are stillmarried and you are happily
married this time.
So in between you know whathappened.
I mean number one did, did.
(24:22):
Did you seek counseling?
Does he have a psychologicalcondition?
Did the military do somethingto him?
First of all, how was that newstage of living in a new place?
You really don't know anybody.
Intentionally, you wanted thatto be and you had a new job.
You're starting a new life.
"Lillian" (24:40):
It came to be is because I had to first sit in my
mess.
I had to first heal on my own.
I had to learn how to heal andlearn that it's okay to not be,
okay.
I know a lot of people you know.
When we be hurt or somethinggoing on, we always say how are
you doing?
Oh, I'm okay.
I know a lot of people you know.
When we be hurt or somethinggoing on, we always say how are
you doing, oh, I'm okay, I'mokay.
(25:00):
And some people don't know howto say I'm not okay.
And I had to learn to say I'mnot okay, I'm not okay, not only
to people, but to myself, I'mnot okay.
And so I learned how to justspend time with myself, spend
time with God.
We did start going to counselingand I pastor counseling
(25:22):
counseled us and let him knowwhat he did was wrong and let
him know that he had a soul tiedand he was like what is this?
And while he was ministering tohim, the wife was ministering
to me because they went throughthe same thing, so she could
relate.
So she was ministering to mebecause they went through the
same thing, so she could relate.
So she was ministering to meand she was like you need to
stop making him your God.
(25:44):
As in putting him first ineverything you know.
As in she said you.
She said I love my husband buthe's not my God.
She said you have to learn howto stop making him your God,
your.
This is my number one.
Yes, he's your husband, buthe's not your number one
priority.
She said find you a hobby.
(26:04):
She said you can't stop himfrom doing anything he doesn't
want to do Because me, I wastrying to be proactive.
Well, I'm going to catch himbefore he do it again and I'm
going to do this.
She said no, that's miserable.
Find you a hobby.
If he's going to do it, he'sgoing to do it and leave.
Don't stay this time becauseyou're teaching him how to treat
you.
(26:25):
And I was like, okay, I got it,got it Got it, you're teaching
him how to respect you andyou're also teaching him how to
love you and he's not loving youproperly.
He don't know how to love you,she said.
It looks like both of you guysdon't know what love is.
So we went to counseling andcounseling helped him, but it
(26:48):
didn't help me because I wasstill bitter, I was still, I was
angry.
I couldn't let it go because itwas.
It was 10 years of suffering,it was 10 years of pain and you
want me to let it go in one year.
I couldn't do it.
Dr Bola Sogade (26:57):
And it was more of emotional pain and suffering.
"Lillian" (27:01):
It was more emotional pain and he's just like, oh,
let's get over it, oh, it's done.
And God did a work on him andhe did a mighty work on him and
we separated for a year.
Let me put that out there.
We was gone for a year.
I was in this for a whole yearand he, we was gone for a year.
I was in this for a whole yearand he was in Florida and and
God was doing the work on him.
But I was getting bitter andangry about a moment and I seen
(27:24):
the work God was doing to him.
He was changing.
He was being more attentive tohis, his children, he was loving
himself more, he was I mean,respectful towards me and he was
showing himself like I'm aboutto go here, I'm about to go here
, I'm about to go there, youknow, leaving his phone around,
just doing things out the normalto gain my trust, and.
But I didn't trust him and Iwas angry and I kept throwing up
(27:48):
, throwing in his face of hispast.
You used to do this and Iremember and that's even when I
got back with him, even when wegot back together, I still was
bitter towards him and Iremember him sending me down and
said you know how I met God wasthrough you, he said, because I
(28:13):
grew up in a church.
But the experience that you hadwith God, I wanted that
experience.
He said don't let me take youfar away from God because of
what I did to you.
And I was like and that was mymoment, like, oh my God.
And he's like, so don't let medo this to you.
He said you have to loveyourself more than that.
(28:36):
He said I know what I did waswrong and I do apologize.
There's nothing I can do totake that back, but you're going
to have to let this go.
You know, if you choose us tobe back together, you have to
let this go.
And I'm like you don't tell mewhat to do.
You know, still angry.
But God sat me down and he saidwhat you're trying to fix is the
(28:57):
surface.
This is an infrastructure, thisis a generation thing going on.
It's not what you think it is.
It's more than what you thinkwhat it is.
He said but if you get out ofmy way, you know if you're
trying to, if you stop trying tobe God and start trying to be
me, I will show you.
So, instead of you trying tofix it.
I created him, let me fix him.
(29:18):
So that's what happened.
I just got out of God's way andstart praying more and told God
, you know.
So when I get mad, when thosethoughts start coming in my head
, I said God, that's your child,fix him, you know, or teach me
how to pray for him.
And I had to learn how to prayfor him.
(29:39):
Instead of praying what Ithought was good prayers, god
said I had to learn how to prayfor my husband.
And God also showed me how tobe a wife, yeah, how to be quiet
when I need to be quiet, how tostop.
You know when you get angry.
Stop saying things.
You know hurtful things,because that's not love.
If you know what God is, youknow God is love.
That's not how God do love.
(30:01):
So why would you do that toyour husband If you keep
throwing up what he used to doto you in your face because
you're still angry and bitter?
You don't?
You shouldn't took him back.
Why would you take him back totorture him like?
Dr Bola Sogade (30:12):
that In our upcoming episode we talk more
with Lillian and Charles.
Thank you for listening toCocoaPods Podcast.
Hello and welcome to CocoaPods podcast.
Today, we're very fortunate tohave Lillian Of course, we've
changed the name, this is apseudonym and she's going to
talk to us about her journey,her experience with
relationships, marriage,actually and so, lillian,
welcome to CocoaPods podcast.
"Lillian" (00:20):
Oh, thank you so much .
I'm so excited to be here.
Dr Bola Sogade (00:24):
So you know, you told us about your journey with
your partner now.
"Lillian" (00:28):
Yeah.
Dr Bola Sogade (00:30):
And about some of the difficulties that you
guys had and that you guysmarried early.
Can you just tell us about?
You know how you know you firstgot together and the problems
that you guys had?
Yeah, you know you first gottogether and the problems that
you guys had.
"Lillian" (00:44):
Yeah.
So we got together in collegevery young, on 17, 18, went to
college together, just gotmarried at 22, 23, young.
And then that's when theexperience of marriage happened,
as I like to call it.
Everything was, you know, bloom.
(01:04):
You're 18, 17 in love and well,thank you in love.
And so that's when the marriagehappened.
After the wedding was over, Ilike to say that the wedding was
over because, you know, we getthe glitz and glam and the oh,
you know, your wedding's sobeautiful.
I want my wedding to be likethis and be like that.
And now marriage happened.
(01:26):
So marriage happened very earlyon in our marriage.
I want to say right aftermarriage actually.
But it's crazy because signswill show way before then, but
we choose to ignore the signsand, honestly, I got married for
stability.
I didn't get married because oflove.
(01:47):
I was never taught that.
I was taught to get married andget someone that would take
care of you.
You know, love will come.
That's what I was told.
And so I got married the wrongway, you know.
And so I got married the wrongway, you know.
And so I got married forstability, not saying I didn't
love him, but the love that heshould have gotten from me being
(02:11):
saying I do, and this is theone.
You know.
You made your vow in front ofGod.
It should have been more thanwhat I was giving, and I found
that out later on.
As I had, god had to deal withme and sit me in a quiet room
with myself to, you know,reflect on me, and I had to
reflect on me.
He showed me me and I had torealize that.
Dr Bola Sogade (02:34):
Okay, so you know the initial years.
You know you guys were together, you guys actually had two kids
, but then there were problemsthat made you actually leave the
relationship.
"Lillian" (02:48):
Yes, so very early on .
As I said, the science wasthere but I choose to ignore.
So my problems was infidelityvery early on, infidelity,
insecurities, as they say, mendon't grow up until they,
whatever age, and he justwouldn't want to grow and I was
growing and so infidelitystarted real early with us.
(03:11):
I want to say not within noteven a year of being married.
Dr Bola Sogade (03:15):
It happened and that was with him.
With him, okay.
And so you said you had alittle private detective thing
going on there girl.
"Lillian" (03:25):
I was a private detective, I was a police
officer, I was everything.
So I how?
I found out?
Well, of course, like thescience was always there, your
women intuition, but it wasearly on.
Like women call the house orcall his phone and, um, he'll
say, oh no, that's just a friend, or you know no, or he'd stand
out late than usual, you know,and I was young.
(03:48):
So I was just like, oh well,maybe he's at the club, I don't
want to.
You know, we had the baby young, so maybe he just want to still
party.
You know not my naive thinking,but I knew something, but I
didn't know.
So when I start being thedetective, as I like to call it,
going through the phones andnotice his patterns, like okay,
every time he leaves he alwaystake his phone, or oh, he's
(04:17):
locking his phone more often, orhe's staying out more often, or
why he's always leaving to gotalk on the phone.
So when I started noticing that, I was like something is going
on.
So yeah, that's when I knew hewas cheating, having affairs.
I was like something is goingon.
Dr Bola Sogade (04:24):
So yeah, that's when I knew he was cheating,
having affairs and you said youconfronted him with this, like
you know, angrily and stuff likethat.
"Lillian" (04:31):
Yes, so I confronted him with it early on and of
course it was always I'm sorry.
And my husband was a gift giver, was a gift giver, and he, he,
if he did something wrong here,go buy a gift you know, flowers,
(04:52):
or card or car, anything to saymy sorry gift.
So in our, as young as I was, Iaccepted it.
And growing up, how I grew up,I saw that pattern.
I saw those toxicity, as I liketo call it, or dysfunction
family, as in the husband,grandpa was cheating, my dad was
doing that too and my mom usedto just pray.
(05:15):
We'll just pray about it.
So as I saw that, I was like,well, maybe that's what I'm
supposed to do.
So that's what I started doing,just grabbing his hand.
Every time I catch him on thephone or catch something, grab
his hand and just say, well,we're going to work it out, it's
okay, and we'll pray, and abouttwo weeks he'll be fine and
then he'll get right back at it.
It was just a pattern.
(05:35):
It was a pattern.
It went on for years.
Dr Bola Sogade (05:37):
Wow, and so did you like reach out to.
Well, you said you talked toyour mom, but did you reach out
to anybody like counseling, orchurch or family members?
"Lillian" (05:49):
No, because I was one embarrassed to growing up in my
family home that you know youdon't tell people your business,
for one, and into counselingand stuff wasn't an option.
You don't need counseling.
Was your Jesus?
Jesus is your counseling.
So that's what I was doing.
And need counseling was yourJesus.
Jesus is your counseling.
So that's what I was doing.
And I was like mom, this is notworking.
I saying Jesus ain't doing whathe's supposed to do.
(06:10):
But no, you don't need to tellpeople your business.
You know, whatever goes on inyour house goes on in your house
and things like that.
That's what just men do.
Men do that.
But but that was my grandmother.
Now my mom was married for 16years to my dad and she
experienced it as well 60 years,16.
16.
(06:31):
16 years she had me at 16, so Ireally grew up with mommy and
so they got divorced in her 30sand I was 18.
So I now saw the same patterns,same thing my dad was doing.
I seen my husband was doingthat and I'd recognize the
patterns early on.
Only only thing I didn't seewas the fight in my mom.
(06:55):
I saw her being submissive,kept going back and I thought,
well, that's, I guess that'swhat you're supposed to do.
You pray about it and you getback together.
I guess this is what marriageis about.
And yeah, until that day when Ifinally left and I told my mom
and she had that heart to hearttalk and that's when I realized,
oh, that's not what she wantedto do.
(07:16):
And she explained to me youknow, sometimes you got to do
what you got to do for the kidsor for that moment until you
gather your thoughts to figureout how to leave, like get an
exit.
So that's why she stayed.
So we had that heart to heartmoment at, I want to say, about
10 years into marriage.
That's when I had enough and Itold him no, I found out about
(07:44):
he was just mom had a slight,was going through.
She had a slight heart attack.
Mom did.
Mom had breast cancer twice andthen she had a slight heart
attack, just stress.
She's already divorced dad atthis time and me and my husband
was just going through it andmom went to the hospital and I
was just livid.
I wasn't working and trying tofind a job with two kids.
(08:07):
He was working.
He's always been a breadwinnerand he's always been good
stability-wise.
So I was like, okay, I was ahousewife.
So I finally had thatconversation with my mom.
My mom was sick and so I wentto the hospital to be with her.
Um, when I realized, like I camehome one day and I was just, I
(08:29):
was just exhausted being amother, because I lost myself,
being a wife, being a mother,just lost my identity, you know,
um, because I was so muchcatering to him, trying to be
his everything, because Icouldn't, couldn't fathom, like,
why are you trying to?
Why are you cheating?
I'm, I cook, I clean.
You know I don't do this.
I'm the perfect wife, I pray, Igo to church.
Why, you know?
(08:50):
And I couldn't figure it outuntil later on.
So, but it's, but it's goodthat I had that talk with mama
um, after she had when she wentthrough, and I called my husband
, she was in hospital and, um, Isaid I'm done, we need to talk,
and he was like, well, I'm done.
And I called my husband.
She was in the hospital and Isaid I'm done, we need to talk,
and he was like, well, I'm doneand I'm leaving.
I was like what I said?
(09:11):
Well, you don't come to myhouse, You're not coming in his
house late.
If you come to his house late,we're done.
So he did it anyway.
So, and usually when he doesthat, I still take him back.
You, I still take them back.
You know we'll fight for us andwe'll come back.
But that particular time I wasdone.
It was 10 years.
I was like I'm not goinganother 10 years and I was like
we're done.
And he said, well, fine.
(09:32):
And when he said fine, it'skind of like, oh, you got
somebody else, because usuallyhe'll say no, let's talk about
it.
Remember, he was a gift giver.
He'll just give gifts, sorrygifts, and I was so used to the
pattern.
But then when he said fine, Iwas like oh, you got somebody.
But it didn't register becauseI still had to take him home, I
(09:52):
still had to be a mom and I hadto still be there for everyone
else.
You know, as women we wear manyhats we're sister, counselor,
mother, we're a housekeeper,we're, you know, we're shelves,
shelves.
We're everything to everyone.
And at that moment I was like Ican't be that, his wife to you.
I have to be everything to mamaat the time.
So, yeah, so once he left, I itwas like bang, you know, okay,
(10:19):
he know, or do I know you?
know it was confusion, like dodo he know I'm not?
Do he know I'm tired?
Or is it my fault this time?
Is he really going to be there?
But I can't focus on thatbecause mom in the hospital.
And so once mom got out thehospital I called him and he
made it seem he was amanipulator.
(10:40):
He made it seem like it was myfault.
And so I tried everything, stillas a wife, to say, oh, let me
pray, let's, let's pray here, gome again, let's pray, not
saying nothing wrong withpraying, but all let's pray, let
this, let's come together anddo this.
And then that's when we went tocounseling, went to counseling
and in the counseling he toldthe counseling it was my fault,
(11:01):
I didn't want to do this, I wasthis, I was that.
And I'm like, oh, my God, youknow, is it me?
That's why he's doing thesethings, not knowing at the time
he was all.
He was always with anotherwoman.
He was with this woman, but hewas he.
I didn't know, but he wasputting it out on me Like it's
my fault and he's just single.
He's staying in a hotel, butall the while, while we were in
(11:23):
counseling everything, he waswith another woman staying with
her.
Dr Bola Sogade (11:26):
At the time, Wow , that must have been shameful
for you.
"Lillian" (11:31):
Mm-hmm, it was shameful and how I found out
that he was with the other woman.
I let go.
After two, three months hewasn't home.
He left and I kept calling him.
He didn't answer and it waschange for my kids because they
(11:52):
so used to seeing him every dayfor not seeing him every day.
They was running track.
At the time, my oldest and heused to go pick them up and, you
know, help them with homeworkand he just stopped.
He just stopped and they didn'tknow what's going on.
They're young.
Dr Bola Sogade (12:09):
And this is their dad.
That's their dad.
"Lillian" (12:11):
Yep, they didn't know what was going on Like what
happened to dad, and I couldn'texplain it Family coming over
asking where he is in.
My escape goal was he's in themilitary.
So, oh, he's went, he went to,he went to drill or he went on
vacation or, um, he went awaywith the military.
So that was my escape goal forsix months because of the shame
because the shame.
I didn't want no one to know,didn't want to tell my mom.
(12:32):
But mom knew she was waiting onme.
So once she got, well, andeverything, six months passed
and no, still he was doing thesame thing, and let me put that
out there still didn't know hewas with that woman, still
didn't know he was staying withher.
And but God was bringing dreamsto me, okay, and he was
bringing dreams.
One dream, okay, and he wasbringing dreams.
(12:53):
One dream I had was I wasdreaming I was in my house, but
my house was full of snakes,right, and I'm like, oh, my God,
you know.
And but this one snake, it wasa man in the house getting the
snakes.
He said, oh, you got a lot ofsnakes.
He said, but you got one inyour private area, right, and he
pulled that snake out myprivate area and I woke up and I
(13:14):
was like what was that?
You know, jesus, you know whatis going on Somebody around me,
that's evil, you know.
Immediately I started praying,because I do believe in Jesus
and the devil.
Um so um, once that dream cameabout and I said well, god, what
is that?
What, what is, what is thatabout?
And then every time my husbandstarted coming around, he
(13:35):
started back answering the phoneand I was like well, why are
you not answering the phone?
You said you're in the hotel.
Still my shame and still mydenial.
He's like I'm at the hotel withmy friend and I called the
friend and the friend said he'snever stayed with me.
He said I'm not going to be init.
And I told him this is his guyfriend, best friend.
(13:58):
He said nope, he has not beenwith me, he has never stayed
with me.
And I said oh okay, he's likeno, he said I don't.
He said no, this is what hetold me.
He said you know your husbandbetter than me.
He said you tell me.
And that was like that denial,because what he was saying was
(14:19):
you already know your husband,jeet, so I don't need to tell
you what's going on, kind ofthing and so.
But I didn't have any evidence,you know, because he wasn't
there, I couldn't go throughphones.
I didn't know where he was he.
You know cause he?
He wasn't there.
I couldn't go through phones, Ididn't know where he was he.
You know, communication wasshort.
You talk about somebody who'sbeen married to for 10 years and
(14:40):
all of a sudden, allcommunication just cut off.
You know you're not talkingevery day.
I mean, he's just went ghost.
He went ghost on the children,the children they confused.
He was, I want to say he wasabout.
My baby was about nine or 10 atthe time, so he was confused.
I want to say my baby was about9 or 10 at the time, so he was
confused.
The oldest 9 or 10.
So the baby was about 4.
About 6, I want to say 6.
So they're confused.
They don't know what's going on.
(15:00):
I'm in denial, I'm ashamed.
And God was just giving medreams and he's giving me stuff.
I wasn't working and so I hadto find a job.
And then I started finding ajob in healthcare.
And I found a job in healthcareand I was doing good and, um
guys, god told me to stoppraying.
(15:21):
I heard with him just say prayand I'm like I want to leave.
So I got angry, I got bitterand then but it was also a sense
of relief Like oh, finally Ican let him go, finally we can
get a divorce.
But I was also bitter and I waslike God, why I'm bitter, he's
(15:42):
not here, I don't have to dealwith this anymore.
I can get a divorce.
So I filed for divorce and mymom called me one morning and
she said hey, she called meevery morning at six.
I said hey, and she said what'swrong.
I said nothing is wrong.
She said something is wrong.
(16:02):
I'm on my way.
I was like mom nothing is wrong, she said something is wrong.
So she came over, she sat downon the couch and she said what's
wrong?
And I told her.
It just came out and she said Iknew, I knew.
And she said this is what'sgoing to happen.
That woman she's going to callyou your husband's going to say
he's sorry and he never want tobe with her.
(16:23):
This is going to happen.
She just gave me the downplay.
Dr Bola Sogade (16:27):
Like a blueprint .
"Lillian" (16:29):
Like a blueprint.
Play the blueprint like a blue.
This is gonna happen and I waslike okay, like a playbook like
a playbook.
This is what's gonna happen.
And I kid you not, it happenedthe exact same way.
Mom happened not immediately,but it happened the exact same
way.
Um, so the dreams kept coming.
After I had that conversationwith mom, dreams kept coming.
So finally he started callingback right and answering the
(16:50):
phone because I got, I got a jobnow and and I was like, listen,
I get off, I need you to getthe kids.
And he was like, okay, you know.
So he started getting the kids.
But when I get off work, it'sjust like.
An exchange was so awkward.
And I remember one day when wewas, I was getting off and he
was leaving out the house.
He stopped me and he said canyou pray for me?
(17:11):
And, and he was leaving out thehouse, he stopped me and he
said can you pray for me?
And I was like why he's like Ineed for you to pray for me.
And we prayed together outsideof the house.
And that same day I enteredinside of the house and I looked
down our hallway and I seen anentity, literally an entity, a
person in my hallway and I was,of course, scared.
(17:33):
Who wouldn't be scared?
You think you see somebody?
And I'm like Lord now.
I know I believe in you and theenemy, but I know I ain't seen
no ghosts or no demon in myhouse.
Of course you hear about thesethings on TV People talk about
it already or whatever but me,seeing it for myself, I said
something is wrong and Iremember telling my mom, calling
(17:55):
my mom, and I told her and shewas like girl you know, and I
shared it with my husband andhis exact word was oh, they're
coming from me, they coming fromme, and I'm like what does that
mean?
You know what?
What are you talking about?
And so I was scared to sleep inmy own home.
For two days out of the week Istay at my mom's house because I
(18:18):
was scared to sleep in my ownhouse.
I've seen these entities everytime my husband leaves my house.
Dr Bola Sogade (18:23):
Where were the children?
"Lillian" (18:24):
They're in their bedrooms sleep because I got off
about 12 at night.
Dr Bola Sogade (18:28):
So when you stay at your mom's house, you take
them with you.
"Lillian" (18:35):
Mom go picks them up from school while I go to work
and they'll stay there, and thenI leave work and go stay with
mom.
Yeah, so it was, it was, it wasa time.
And then, um, he came and um,every time he came to that house
he'll leave something, as I say.
And uh, I was like, is this aparanormal activity?
What's going on?
Do I need an exorcist?
And I shared it with that's whenI started opening up with mom
(18:58):
and mom said you know, and I waslike well, mom, why did you
stay with my dad?
You know you stay with him.
And she said well, I'm nottelling you to stay.
She said, but I will tell youto do what's best for you.
She said that's your marriage.
I can't tell you what to do,but I'm not telling you to stay.
I said well, why did you stay?
She said because you guys wasyoung and I didn't want you to
(19:21):
grow up without a dad.
I said but I grew up in atoxicity environment.
I see you guys fight.
I never heard you I love youfrom you guys.
I never.
You got never seen you guysbeing affectionate.
I always saw you guys was madand angry.
And she said I didn't know thatI thought I was doing what's
best for y'all by staying withyour father, by keeping y'all
(19:41):
together, cause I thought I wasdoing what's best for the
children.
And she said now I realizedthat what's best for the
children is for you guys not tobe in a toxicity environment.
But it's too late for me, butit's not for you, so you did the
right thing.
She said I want you to let himgo.
And I was like, okay.
So that's when, of course, Ialready filed for divorce.
But I was hesitant because I'mlike do I Cause I still loved
(20:03):
him.
It's like, well, why do I stilllove him?
And she said that's natural.
She said but I want you toproceed with it.
And I was like, okay, I'm nottelling you what to do, but I
want you to, because I don'twant you to be like me, you know
, holding on to something for 16years and fighting with with
that thought, like did I do theright thing or did I not do it?
So yeah, so we had that talk andI never heard that from her and
(20:26):
she said you know, I was angryat my own mama for staying with
my daddy for doing the samething.
She said but my mama told mehe's taking care of you, you're
fed.
He don't do this, he don't dothat.
You got a roof over your head,right?
So go back to him.
It's worse things that could behappening.
And she said she never forgaveher mom for that and to be in
(20:48):
the same situation her mom inand now she has a daughter in
the same situation.
And I looked at her that dayand I said somebody got to stop
it, somebody got to stop thisgeneration curse.
Dr Bola Sogade (20:59):
Yeah, and I stopped it well, you said um,
you moved to another citybecause you, you, you felt
everybody was talking about you,you were ashamed of everything.
Can you just tell us about that?
"Lillian" (21:13):
Yeah.
So after I found out about theno let's, let's go back to the
dream.
So once I dreamed I was prayingfor him and everything like
that Fast forward, he's.
He's, he's in the military.
So he was about to leave and hewanted to see the children.
This is nine months.
While he was about to leave andhe wanted to see the children
this is nine months while he wasgone.
(21:34):
He left.
So it's about nine, ten months.
While he left and he said, well,I'm about to go.
I said can I see the kids?
Sure, you can come see thebabies.
And he left his bag and he said, hold on, I forgot my other bag
at the hotel.
I was like, okay, cool.
Well, nine months in, I haven'tseen him.
(21:56):
I'm off out for divorce, I'mabout to be done.
I don't care what you do,whatever the case may be.
I was at peace with just likewe're not going to be together,
we're co-parenting.
I was just trying to wrap myhead around like we're going to
be co-parenting.
I was just at peace and in mymind I moved on, you know, and I
went through his bag.
He left the bag and that's whenI saw another phone and on his
screensaver was him and the newwoman.
(22:19):
And that's when I was like, oh,you got a whole woman, you know
.
That's when I realized, and ofcourse I confronted him about it
, and all the emotion that Ithought I let go, that I moved
on from him, came back and I waslivid and I let out a cry so
bad.
(22:40):
And, um, I showed it to him.
Of course he lied and denied it.
Oh, that's, you know.
She wanted to do this.
So what do you get this newphone?
Why you got a new phone?
This is two phone.
So he was living a double life.
And that's when it it came toreality, like, here's your proof
, you know.
Dr Bola Sogade (22:57):
And of course he lied and um, you used the word
that if you were a witch, youwould have put it if I was a
witch, I would have put a curseon him and that girl.
"Lillian" (23:06):
I was so angry, I was so bitter.
I was like Lord, I'm angry andI can't.
I can't, I don't know how notto be angry.
If you say a, if you say a nameclose to his or to that girl
name, I, if I was a witch, Icatch a spell.
Yes, I was bitter, I was bitter.
(23:27):
I was angry because I'm likewhy would you do this to me?
I never did anything to you tohurt you in that matter of way.
Why would you do that to me?
Of course, the lies kept comingand, um, yeah, so I, I, I
packed up and I moved, he, he,he.
He said, well, I have a job.
No, he said, I have a job andwould you like to go?
And I was like sure.
(23:48):
So we ended up moving there and, um, I told him you stay back,
you stay back in Florida, andI'm going to move.
And that's how I startedhealing.
Dr Bola Sogade (24:01):
So you went with the children.
I mean you had to get anapartment, get a job, really
start a new life and you knowfast forward.
You know you guys are stillmarried and you are happily
married this time.
So in between you know whathappened.
I mean number one did, did.
(24:22):
Did you seek counseling?
Does he have a psychologicalcondition?
Did the military do somethingto him?
First of all, how was that newstage of living in a new place?
You really don't know anybody.
Intentionally, you wanted thatto be and you had a new job.
You're starting a new life.
"Lillian" (24:40):
It came to be is because I had to first sit in my
mess.
I had to first heal on my own.
I had to learn how to heal andlearn that it's okay to not be,
okay.
I know a lot of people you know.
When we be hurt or somethinggoing on, we always say how are
you doing?
Oh, I'm okay.
I know a lot of people you know.
When we be hurt or somethinggoing on, we always say how are
you doing, oh, I'm okay, I'mokay.
(25:00):
And some people don't know howto say I'm not okay.
And I had to learn to say I'mnot okay, I'm not okay, not only
to people, but to myself, I'mnot okay.
And so I learned how to justspend time with myself, spend
time with God.
We did start going to counselingand I pastor counseling
(25:22):
counseled us and let him knowwhat he did was wrong and let
him know that he had a soul tiedand he was like what is this?
And while he was ministering tohim, the wife was ministering
to me because they went throughthe same thing, so she could
relate.
So she was ministering to mebecause they went through the
same thing, so she could relate.
So she was ministering to meand she was like you need to
stop making him your God.
(25:44):
As in putting him first ineverything you know.
As in she said you.
She said I love my husband buthe's not my God.
She said you have to learn howto stop making him your God,
your.
This is my number one.
Yes, he's your husband, buthe's not your number one
priority.
She said find you a hobby.
(26:04):
She said you can't stop himfrom doing anything he doesn't
want to do Because me, I wastrying to be proactive.
Well, I'm going to catch himbefore he do it again and I'm
going to do this.
She said no, that's miserable.
Find you a hobby.
If he's going to do it, he'sgoing to do it and leave.
Don't stay this time becauseyou're teaching him how to treat
you.
(26:25):
And I was like, okay, I got it,got it Got it, you're teaching
him how to respect you andyou're also teaching him how to
love you and he's not loving youproperly.
He don't know how to love you,she said.
It looks like both of you guysdon't know what love is.
So we went to counseling andcounseling helped him, but it
(26:48):
didn't help me because I wasstill bitter, I was still, I was
angry.
I couldn't let it go because itwas.
It was 10 years of suffering,it was 10 years of pain and you
want me to let it go in one year.
I couldn't do it.
Dr Bola Sogade (26:57):
And it was more of emotional pain and suffering.
"Lillian" (27:01):
It was more emotional pain and he's just like, oh,
let's get over it, oh, it's done.
And God did a work on him andhe did a mighty work on him and
we separated for a year.
Let me put that out there.
We was gone for a year.
I was in this for a whole yearand he, we was gone for a year.
I was in this for a whole yearand he was in Florida and and
God was doing the work on him.
But I was getting bitter andangry about a moment and I seen
(27:24):
the work God was doing to him.
He was changing.
He was being more attentive tohis, his children, he was loving
himself more, he was I mean,respectful towards me and he was
showing himself like I'm aboutto go here, I'm about to go here
, I'm about to go there, youknow, leaving his phone around,
just doing things out the normalto gain my trust, and.
But I didn't trust him and Iwas angry and I kept throwing up
(27:48):
, throwing in his face of hispast.
You used to do this and Iremember and that's even when I
got back with him, even when wegot back together, I still was
bitter towards him and Iremember him sending me down and
said you know how I met God wasthrough you, he said, because I
(28:13):
grew up in a church.
But the experience that you hadwith God, I wanted that
experience.
He said don't let me take youfar away from God because of
what I did to you.
And I was like and that was mymoment, like, oh my God.
And he's like, so don't let medo this to you.
He said you have to loveyourself more than that.
(28:36):
He said I know what I did waswrong and I do apologize.
There's nothing I can do totake that back, but you're going
to have to let this go.
You know, if you choose us tobe back together, you have to
let this go.
And I'm like you don't tell mewhat to do.
You know, still angry.
But God sat me down and he saidwhat you're trying to fix is the
(28:57):
surface.
This is an infrastructure, thisis a generation thing going on.
It's not what you think it is.
It's more than what you thinkwhat it is.
He said but if you get out ofmy way, you know if you're
trying to, if you stop trying tobe God and start trying to be
me, I will show you.
So, instead of you trying tofix it.
I created him, let me fix him.
(29:18):
So that's what happened.
I just got out of God's way andstart praying more and told God
, you know.
So when I get mad, when thosethoughts start coming in my head
, I said God, that's your child,fix him, you know, or teach me
how to pray for him.
And I had to learn how to prayfor him.
(29:39):
Instead of praying what Ithought was good prayers, god
said I had to learn how to prayfor my husband.
And God also showed me how tobe a wife, yeah, how to be quiet
when I need to be quiet, how tostop.
You know when you get angry.
Stop saying things.
You know hurtful things,because that's not love.
If you know what God is, youknow God is love.
That's not how God do love.
(30:01):
So why would you do that toyour husband If you keep
throwing up what he used to doto you in your face because
you're still angry and bitter?
You don't?
You shouldn't took him back.
Why would you take him back totorture him like?
Dr Bola Sogade (30:12):
that In our upcoming episode we talk more
with Lillian and Charles.
Thank you for listening toCocoaPods Podcast.
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