June 26, 2025 • 34 mins
Is AI a threat to Christian faith—or an invitation to go deeper with God? In this episode, we ask the hard questions: What role does prayer play when tech seems to know everything? Can the presence of God be more real than the presence of machines?
If you’re looking for clarity, hope, and a fresh spiritual perspective on the digital age, this conversation is for you. Dr. Drew Dickens joins us for a thought-provoking conversation on how Christian women can navigate AI with wisdom, discernment, and faith that’s firmly rooted in Christ.
Scripture referenced:
- Philippians 4:6
- John 18
Dive deeper: Whispers of the Spirit: A 40-Day Guide to Intimate Prayer
More from Dr. Dickens: Website | Podcast
Dr. Dickens' Favorites: ESV | NASB | Amplified Bible | Journal | Encountering Peace App | YouVersion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ellen Krause (00:04):
At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
Our goal is to help you delightin God's Word and thrive in
Christian living.
Each week, we talk to subjectmatter experts who broaden your
biblical understanding,encourage you in hard times and
provide life-building tips toenhance your Christian walk.
We are so glad you have joinedus.
(00:25):
Welcome back to the Coffee andBible Time podcast.
I'm Ellen, your host, and ourconversation today is about
something relatively uncharteredat this point in history, which
is faith and AI.
In history, which is faith andAI, I'm joined by Dr Drew
(00:49):
Dickens, a theologian whose worksits right at that intersection
of technology and spirituality.
He specializes in innovativeapproaches to faith-based
engagement and is the founder ofEncountering Peace Meditation
app and the Encounter podcast.
Dr Dickens holds a doctorate intheological anthropology from
Southern Methodist Universityand master's degrees from Dallas
(01:12):
Theological Seminary and BaylorUniversity.
Today, we'll explore how tocultivate a deeper prayer life
in a distracted world and how wecan be prepared to navigate AI
technology with wisdom.
Welcome, dr Dickens.
It's so exciting to have youwith us.
Wow, what a great topic.
Dr. Drew Dickens (01:34):
Ellen, it's an incredible joy and privilege
and so proud of you and yourteam and everybody there.
It's a great podcast thatyou've got and so excited for
you.
But thanks for carving out afew minutes for me today.
Ellen Krause (01:48):
Well, what a delight, and I personally am so
fascinated by the topic of AIand faith.
But I know for some people itcan be uncomfortable or even
unsettling.
So my hope is to take this topicfrom a place that might be like
(02:09):
that for some people to a placeof greater understanding.
But before we begin that partof the conversation, you
recently came out with a prayerdevotional that I had the
opportunity to read and wow, itis so powerful.
So I thought maybe you couldjust open our conversation today
(02:29):
with a little excerpt from oneof your guided prayers.
Would you be willing to do that?
Dr. Drew Dickens (02:35):
I would love that and thank you for asking
Whispers of the Spirit.
And people ask me a lot becauseso much of my focus has been on
AI and theology.
And why write a book aboutprayer, a devotion about prayer?
And it was really for me, itwas.
So much of my focus has been onAI and theology.
And why write a book aboutprayer, a devotion about prayer?
And it was really for me, itwas a natural in my head, it was
a natural transition,simultaneous focus, because as
we get so mired in thetechnology and all of this, oh
(02:56):
my gosh, you and I just wentthrough how many hoops to try
and make the technology work foryou and I to talk today, and so
it's so easy to get soexhausted and so exasperated
with the whole.
You know my phone's not doingthat or whatever, and I thought
you know what, even to myself, Ijust need to walk outside and
walk in the grass and look upinto creation and just pause and
be still and know, and so thisis a daily reminder for me to
(03:20):
re-engage with God.
You know, all throughout theday, without ceasing.
So there are several elementsof each day's kind of short
devotion and this is day two,which I call basics learning to
communicate Godward.
And I started with Philippians 4, 6.
Do not be anxious aboutanything, but in every situation
, by prayer and petition, withthanksgiving, present your
(03:42):
request to God.
And so in my introduction Isaid in the stillness, when your
heart yearns for refuge,philippians 4 whispers a divine
invitation present your requestto God.
Here lies the essence of prayer, doesn't it?
An open-hearted conversationwith God, where your worries,
gratitude and desires intertwinein a sacred trust.
(04:06):
In the quiet.
Prayer becomes more than aritual.
It's an intimate journeythrough which your soul finds
its authentic voice.
You can release your anxietiesin the landscape of worship.
Well, here you lay down yourtroubles at the feet of the
Almighty, not as an act ofdefeat but as a surrender, a
(04:27):
powerful declaration of ourdependence on God.
And in this sacred moment, ourheart swells with gratitude.
Thanksgiving is the melody thatharmonizes your requests,
reminding you of God's pastfaithfulness and his unchanging
nature.
Reminding you of God's pastfaithfulness and his unchanging
nature.
In this symphony ofsupplication and thanks, we can
(04:49):
find peace that transcendsunderstanding, guarding our
heart and mind in Christ Jesus.
Our prayers become a sanctuary,inviting you to bring
everything before the HeavenlyFather, son and Heavenly Holy
Spirit, one of the elements ofeach day's devotion that I have.
I was drawn back in the 1400s.
(05:10):
There was a Saint Ignatius ofLoyola, and he was very
passionate about using ourimagination.
When we inquire of God Ignatianspirituality, it's often called
or imaginative contemplation,and I have a brief one every day
.
It's a great time of justclosing our eyes and just
resting back.
Imagine a tranquil gardenbathed in dawn's soft golden
(05:36):
light.
Here, in the symphony ofcreation, your heart unburdens
its worries onto the path ofprayer.
I want you to see this pathstretching out before you,
smooth, level even.
And each step you take down,this path of prayer you take is
(05:58):
a whispered petition, a pleawrapped in gratitude, floating
upward like the morning mist ona dove's wing, with your eyes
closed, your mind's eye open, tosee the Holy Spirit encasing
you with the promise of thedivine presence, enveloping you
(06:21):
in a peace that transcends allunderstanding.
And in this sacred space, onthis path, lay down your worries
on level ground at the foot ofthe cross, and allow me to close
that moment in prayer.
May you enter God's sanctuarywith an open heart, knowing you
are heard, loved, held in thepresence of the Father, son and
(06:43):
Holy Spirit, feel your anxietiesdissolve into the hands of the
Almighty as he reminds you that,in every moment, his grace, his
love, his mercy are sufficient.
May the peace of the Lord,which surpasses all
understanding, guard your heartand mind as you step forward
into the world.
May you remember not to beanxious about everything or
(07:07):
anything.
In every situation, throughprayer and petition, with
thanksgiving, present yourrequest to God, and may his
presence be your constantcompanion, guiding you in every
decision and calming every fear.
Let gratitude fill your heartand trust in his unfailing love
and provision.
Now go forth in this assuranceof his peace, always embracing
(07:31):
each day with faith and courage.
In Jesus' name we do pray, amen.
Amen.
Ellen Krause (07:39):
That is so beautiful and, honestly, it's
one of the deepest, mostreflective, beautiful
devotionals I've ever read.
It truly is.
Dr. Drew Dickens (07:51):
Ellen, you're going to make me cry.
Thank you, Glory to God.
Glory to God.
Glory to God, he is definitelyat work in and through you for
sure.
Ellen Krause (08:01):
Well, I've noticed that people who really connect
with prayer, such as yourselves,often have a story behind how
they got there.
Could you share what your ownjourney into prayer has looked
like over time?
Dr. Drew Dickens (08:21):
I'm going to cry again.
My family, in so manytestimonies, began.
I was raised in a Christianhome.
We were not active in church,but we were just good
neighborhood Christian folks andboth of my grandparents I come
from a legacy of believers and Idon't take that for granted.
I did not have a personal walkand not to get too much in the
woods but weeds.
(08:44):
But I had some abuse in my lifeas a child and struggled with
that silently.
I felt like that was going tohave to be a secret that I
always carried with me.
And I went to a Billy Grahamcrusade back when I was in sixth
grade and was invited by someneighborhood families and went
and heard that there is a Godwho knows me, loves me by grace,
(09:07):
accepts me, and I was the onlyone to come forward in my group
that day, which was not mynatural bent.
And so I received a littlebooklet from the Billy Graham
team about prayer and I'd neverhad a personal relationship and
I found a little white book.
Now I have a brown one, aprayer journal, and I just
(09:27):
started writing every day andthis was sixth, seventh grade
now, and so early on I felt justa calling of the Spirit to
write and to engage and toencounter God and felt His
loving presence in my time withHim.
So that's really how it allbegan and I've been in
vocational ministry for my gosh25 years or so now.
(09:50):
Prayer has been an active partof every step of that process.
Ellen Krause (09:53):
That's incredible and thank you for being just so
authentic.
I know that helps the peoplethat are listening and myself
that we all have some type ofemotional trauma perhaps that
we're challenged with, and justhearing how you use prayer and
that it's been such a valuablepart of your healing process is
(10:15):
so encouraging.
Dr. Drew Dickens (10:16):
No, it was interesting that you say that
because for the longest, for 20some odd years, I was a part of
an evangelism ministry and weevery day engage with people on
the phone, email, chat, text,whatever they were interested in
learning more about arelationship with Christ.
And, as was often the case, weended every call in prayer and
(10:40):
every conversation in prayer.
And it was fascinating to mehow many times people would say
could I have a copy of that?
Instead of what, instead ofthat prayer?
And I was like that was I mean,no, there isn't a copy, I just
was praying from my heart andthat idea just blew people away.
(11:01):
And so, having that opportunityto understand and I don't mean
it casually, but of course weknow the power of prayer, but
physically even the effect thatthat can have on people, so many
people and, ellen, you and Itake it for granted perhaps, but
so many people navigate lifewithout ever hearing their name
(11:24):
and God's mentioned in the samesentence.
Navigate life without everhearing their name and God's
mentioned in the same sentence.
But you can send out a textmessage to all of your
subscribers and all your friends.
You can have thousands ofpeople praying for you within
moments, and so it's somethingI've tried to never take for
granted.
It's just the power of offeringa prayer to someone.
Ellen Krause (11:39):
Yes, and it's always so incredible to see the
looks on people's faces who havenever experienced that they're
just so truly and deeply touched, and that's God at work for
sure.
Dr. Drew Dickens (11:51):
Amen Amen.
Ellen Krause (11:53):
Well, let's shift gears a little bit into this
technology and AI.
How did you come to viewtechnology as an important
aspect of the Christian walk?
Dr. Drew Dickens (12:08):
So let's move from prayer to robots killing us
all.
Right, you know what?
When I was in seminary, I'vealways had this fascination.
I've always been an earlyadopter when it comes to
technology, first with theiPhone.
I mean just, you know, if itcomes out, I'm just I'm standing
in line.
And so I've always beenfascinated specifically with the
(12:30):
history that we have as peopleof faith and technology.
So I've always loved exploringthat.
So when I started working mydoctorate, I wanted to kind of
narrow that down from justtechnology in general and this
was six years ago, which soundswhich is an eternity in this
field, but I was really doing alot of research in the early
(12:50):
days.
Really, you can trace AI backto basically World War II, but I
started exploring some of themore recent works in that field.
Gpt hadn't even come out yet,so everybody kind of thought I
was crazy.
But I tell you it has been aroller coaster ride because you
can't lay back man, it changesevery day.
(13:14):
And writing my dissertation washorrible because it was written
in pencil, because everychapter I'd write, I'd go okay.
Well, that's not true anymore.
I'm citing.
I can't cite books, becausebooks have been written on it.
It's just moving that fast.
So it was kind of a narrowingof my fascination with
technology and how we use thatto engage with God.
Ellen Krause (13:31):
You know, what's fascinating about that is that
there's kind of this dichotomybetween how we want to use
technology but at the same time,we're living in a culture
that's constantly buzzing withnotifications and distractions
and so much information.
In your view, how does ourdigital environment affect our
(13:55):
ability to be fully present inprayer when we have so much, but
yet we really want to feel thepresence of God in prayer?
Dr. Drew Dickens (14:05):
Oh my gosh, ellen, when I come out with the
updated version of the book, I'mgoing to have you write one of
the testimonies for it, becausethat is really the word, it's
presence, and there's so manythings.
I was reading a fascinatingbook on the effects of the
telephone and it talked aboutthere was a lot of pushback on
the telephone.
Should we allow it in our homes?
I mean just in general, and sowe've always had this tension
(14:30):
between these devices that areable to bring us into closer
communion with each other andwith the Lord, but they are
fraught with distractions awayfrom those very things, and I
think we live in a world that isjust fraught with loneliness.
It's an epidemic and it'sdriven by so much of what we've
(14:51):
been talking about social mediaand mobile devices and there are
elements of that that are verymuch at play here with AI.
One of the things that concernsme is the effects on our
relationships.
I think we need to be varied.
To come back to your word, weneed to be present.
People always ask me what canwe do?
And I said this, ellen, whatyou and I are doing right now
(15:13):
two humans, two broken, messyhumans, struggling to find time
to talk to each other, butmaking it happen.
That's what we need to hold onto.
That's part of what it means tobe human, I think, to be in
community with messy people.
Ellen Krause (15:30):
Yes, that's so powerful because I have really
looked into that aspect ofloneliness and it's just it's
becoming such a tragedy amongstthe youth right, like just not
even knowing how to communicateanymore directly with one-on-one
(15:50):
, just sort of even a fear ofthose types of interactions.
But I love that.
You know God gives us this AItechnology because we can use it
to even learn more about him,can use it to even learn more
(16:11):
about him.
So help us understand, fromyour perspective, how Christians
should engage with AI, what aresome of the great things that
we can get from it?
And then also, what cautionswould you offer with that?
Dr. Drew Dickens (16:22):
Great questions, Thank you.
I think it begins with notunlike what you were just
mentioning about being present.
I think it begins with beingmindful and AI, I think, by
nature, is built to help thingsbecome easier and that can
become an idol.
So I think we need to bemindful of our relationship with
(16:46):
it, with its relationship andbeing careful with that pronoun
there, its relationship with us,and to pause periodically and
thank you again for letting meread out of whispers and pause
periodically and walk in thegrass.
So be mindful of screen time,be mindful of how we're engaging
(17:06):
with it.
I had met a buddy for lateafternoon coffee last week and
he told me that he got into along, multi-hour argument with
AI about the topic and, moreinterested, about your draining.
How did you feel after thatconversation?
Because anybody else, if it washe and I having that
(17:35):
conversation at some point Iwould have said hey, pause,
relax, man, Look at how this isaffecting you.
Ai won't stop you.
It would have talked foranother 10 hours.
So again, just look at yourselfas you're engaging with it and
thinking how am I reactingemotionally in this situation?
So be mindful of it.
Some of the cautions I wouldhave is.
(17:56):
I just mentioned one of them isjust not being mindful and
allowing it to begin to affectyou emotionally.
You mentioned an epidemic ofloneliness.
We were talking about that justa moment ago and, specifically
I know with a lot of yourlisteners and your subscribers,
it's interesting how thedemographics are falling into
place around this topic.
(18:18):
When it comes to AI, I think ithas immense potential to address
loneliness, but immense danger.
So what I mean by that isimagine, if you will, someone
that's elderly, in a nursinghome, struggling perhaps even
with mental illness or dementia,maybe not having any visitors,
anybody to talk to.
They now have an opportunity toengage with something, an
(18:40):
entity that can be, have thepresence anyway, of seeming to
be empathetic, sympathetic,caring and loving forever.
It won't have to go back home,it won't have to.
Hey, I'm tired, I'm hungry or Idisagree, and it's always there
.
Oh my gosh, what a beautifultool that can be for someone in
(19:01):
that situation.
On the other hand and itaffects us all, but I'm looking
at both ends of the spectrumperhaps the young teenager,
teenage girl who feels as thoughso often it breaks my heart,
but so often I've been insituations where I've been able
to counsel with someone not acounselor, but talk to someone
around the topic of cutting andself-harm.
And so often I'll talk tosomeone and they say I thought I
(19:23):
was the only one in the worldand my heart just breaks.
Often I'll talk to someone andthey say I thought I was the
only one in the world and myheart just breaks.
No, no, no, you're not aloneand I understand the pain, but
there you have someone who isable to now engage, chat and
text with something.
I'm trying not to assign itanthropomorphic, human
characteristics, but it will beeasy for us to fall in that and
(19:44):
develop some friendships with AI.
I've had several episodes of mypodcast where I'm actually
talking live with an AI anddeveloping a relationship and
having a fascinatingconversation, and I asked my
listeners at some point, did youforget I was talking to an AI?
And so many people emailed meback and said totally forgot.
And so again, you can see theadvantages to that, but the
(20:05):
disadvantages, Some of theexciting things, and sorry I'm
going to.
You asked a simple question,but it's a complex answer.
I think the most fascinatingaspects that have a benefit to
us as believers, as people offaith, is for it to be used as a
for the efficiencies of it forme to be able to have on my
(20:28):
phone, on my device, on mycomputer, access to all human
knowledge.
Just kind of wrap your headaround that phrase for a moment.
That has read every commentaryever published by every
Christian author, going back toancient times.
That has listened to everypodcast.
That's taken every collegeseminary course A phrase I
(20:50):
coined years ago, but AI isincapable of not answering, so
it won't say I don't know, I'llget back to you on that.
It has within seconds an answerto every question.
But, oh my gosh, how was is that?
You know, my wife and I talkedabout, you know, going out of
town for a long weekend andshe's an avid reader and I just
(21:11):
she always is involved in liketwo or three bible studies.
I'm so amazed by her, but wewere kind of joking.
But I said, have you studiedthe book of jude?
Nobody studies the book of jude.
Okay, it takes five minutes toread and everybody kind of does.
I said, you know, let's, let'shave it.
Come up with a four day readingplan and Bible study on the
book of Jude, written as thoughyou were Beth Moore kind of
(21:34):
thing.
Well, three seconds later,here's a you know four day
reading plan with with questionsand studies and, oh my gosh,
just the.
The ability for us, asbelievers, to use this tool to
go deeper and to walk moreclosely with the Lord is immense
and incredibly exciting, but weneed to be careful on the way.
(21:54):
Yes.
Ellen Krause (21:55):
You know one thing that just came to my mind, and
you know there may be listenersthat are even concerned with the
accuracy of the information.
And how do you decipher whereeven different, like religious
denominations, christiandenominations, answer questions
(22:17):
differently?
Are those usually spelled outwhen people go to search for
that information?
So I guess, discerning betweenyou know what's truth and not
truth and then just the varyingways of interpreting.
Yeah, I was in John 20 thismorning and I came across that
(22:38):
passage.
Dr. Drew Dickens (22:39):
Was it Pilate asking that passage?
Was Pilate asking I should havehad this 18.
Anyway, where Pilate asks Jesus, he said are you the Messiah,
are you the King?
And he said you speak truth.
You say that I am.
Then Pilate asked him what istruth?
(23:04):
I can't think of a morepertinent question for all of us
to be answering.
Right now.
I'm going to answer yourquestions backwards.
So, truth we need to definewhat that is for us, and it's
God, it's scripture.
But as we're going to bepounded more and more with
things that we see that aren'tverifiable, I think we need to
be careful of that and relyingon podcasts like yours, where
(23:25):
your listeners have a history,they know you, they know what
you do, which now gets me again.
I'm answering all yourquestions backwards.
I'm going to get into nowaccuracy, which is where you
started.
That's a great question.
The example I always give if I'mtalking to a larger group, it's
if I tell you I enjoy eatingsandwiches, especially peanut
butter and blank, you would saywhat?
Jelly, jelly, and maybe 99% ofthe people would.
(23:49):
Some poor soul is going to saypeanut butter and bananas, or
peanut butter and honey, orpeanut butter and nothing.
So it takes that informationwith all of its consumption of
everything and it's going to sayboy, you know what, 99% of the
time the word jelly goes there.
So really, ai at a basic levelis a next word predictor.
(24:11):
So it's learning how to talk.
So, along the way, when it'sconsuming all this data, it's
also picking up some sort ofside interests.
It's going huh, look, I'velearned how to become a brain
surgeon as I've learned how totalk, and I've learned how to
make peanut butter and jellysandwiches as I've learned how
to talk.
So now you're talking.
Another level of training downone level when it's starting to
(24:34):
maybe pick up some biases,especially when it starts
talking to you in the beginning,because it doesn't know
anything about you, it doesn'tknow your biases or your
preferences.
So it's going to start learningfrom you.
It's going to start saying thisand boy, you objected to that,
and so I'm going to say it thisway next time.
So it's learning not only datathat it's reading and consuming
(24:55):
all over the world since beforeSumerian writings to today, but
now it's going to start learningyou.
So that's another level oftraining.
So a third level which I thinkis dangerous is when you and I
start fine-tuning it to ourspecific, aligned worldview.
(25:17):
So in that case, I'm talking toAI, but I only want it to
answer me back as if it's aevangelical born again Christian
.
That's great, but you couldalso fine tune one that's only
respond back to me as an atheistor as a Buddhist or as a
(25:37):
whatever, and not tell anyone.
So now, all of a sudden, I'mengaging with an AI that's been
fine-tuned a certain way and Idon't know that.
So you use the word discerning.
That's important is I need tostop for a moment and go.
Okay, who's been fine-tuningthis?
What language-based languagemodel are they using?
(25:59):
And that's a little harder todo, because now, all of a sudden
, I just want to know how manyquarts are in a gallon and I
don't want to stop and figureout who fine tuned this language
model.
But it's going to be importantto do for us to stop and go.
Ok, who's behind this?
I know your passion is abouttranslations of the Bible and I
(26:28):
love that you're going to ask methat question in a moment,
because so many of us pick aBible because of the size of the
font you know, or how manyflowers are on the cover or
something, and we never reallystop and go.
You know who was on thetranslation committee of this
thing and what philosophies didthey have?
We need to start asking thosequestions when it comes to AI,
but it'll be easy for us not toto, because it's designed to
give us quick and easy answers.
Ellen Krause (26:46):
That's so fascinating and it's like an
onion with so many layers thatyou can keep.
I mean, we could talk aboutthis forever and I do.
But I don't need to start towrap things up here the single
(27:09):
most vital thing that everyChristian should understand
before using AI in theirspiritual or even their
professional life.
Dr. Drew Dickens (27:12):
I think, kind of where we ended the last
conversation is that it's notsentient, it's not human, it's
not divine, it's not a createdbeing, it's not sentient, it's
not human, but I feel like wewill begin to engage with it as
though it is, and so that's whatI would ask everybody to be
mindful of.
I've said it several times, inseveral different ways but pause
(27:35):
, walk in the grass and engagewith a real messy human,
regardless of whether you'reusing this professionally or
just for fun, or even in yourspiritual walk.
I would encourage everybody tonot run from it, but walk
towards it with eyes wide open.
Right now.
I would really encourageeverybody to walk towards it,
but with eyes wide open.
Ellen Krause (27:57):
Excellent, excellent advice.
Well, Drew, where can ourlisteners keep up with you and
just learn more about whatyou're doing and your prayer
devotional?
Dr. Drew Dickens (28:08):
Well, you know what?
The easy way is just DrewDickens, my name, Drew, like a
picture.
Dickens, like Charles,drewdickenscom.
And boy, everything exceptpictures of the grandkids.
Everything's there about theWhispers of the Spirit, as well
as the Encounter in Peacepodcast and the AI and
Spirituality podcast.
So yeah, anything andeverything drewdickenscom.
(28:30):
Thank you.
Ellen Krause (28:32):
All right, well, we will make sure we include
links to all of those in ourshow notes.
Thank you, drew.
Before I let you go, though, Ihave to ask you some of our
favorite questions here that weask our guests.
So what Bible is your go-toBible, and what translation is
it?
Dr. Drew Dickens (28:50):
The ESV is my go-to and I had a pen in it and
it broke and I messed up Genesis.
So don't ask me to read fromGenesis 35 to, but the ESV has
been my go-to through seminaryand I've actually had this
rebound twice because with mynotes and everything else and
(29:12):
I'm sure all of us kind of feelthe same way it is a what's
called a not to nerd out aformal equivalence, more of a
word for word translation.
It depends upon why I'm reading.
I will use the NASB, which ishard to read, but it's probably
the closest word for wordtranslation we have for both
Greek and Hebrew.
I also love using the Amplifiedjust for fun, which is like
(29:35):
reading the Bible as a thesaurus.
But I just love theexpansiveness of the Amplified
If I'm reading just for thesheer joy of sitting in the
grass, I just love the NewLiving.
So again, I don't have just one, but probably the ESV, but then
some others, depending upon whyI'm in the Word.
Ellen Krause (29:55):
Awesome, okay, excellent, excellent
translations.
All right, do you have anyfavorite Bible journaling
supplies that you like to use?
Dr. Drew Dickens (30:05):
Yes, and you might not have ever seen these
before, but it's a paper journaland a pen.
I don't know if you've seenthose tools or not.
If you don't know how to usethem, you can look up on YouTube
, I think.
But I love to doodle and I loveto hear Mr Digital AI guy.
But I still go around with mycomputer satchel.
I still have a legal pad and apen in there all the time.
(30:27):
There's my combination rightthere.
Okay, last question here.
Ellen Krause (30:30):
What is your favorite app or website for
Bible study tools?
Dr. Drew Dickens (30:36):
Well, that's not fair, because I've got an
app.
So one shameful plug for theEncountering Peace app, which,
by the way, we're about torelease version two, which I'm
super excited about.
I've had a really closepartnership with YouVersion the
YouVersion Bible app forever for12, 15 years or so now, but I
(30:59):
love the YouVersion Bible appand the Encounter Daily
Meditation is based on theirverse of the day.
I just love that team.
But so I would say the EversionBible We'll put links to both
of those in our show notes.
Ellen Krause (31:13):
Well, dr Dickens, thank you so much just for being
here, for sharing your insightand your heart, and certainly
your experience.
Dr. Drew Dickens (31:22):
Again, as I said, I'm thrilled with what
God's doing through you and yourteam and everybody there, and
congratulations on all that andvery honored for you to ask me
to be a part of the episodetoday.
Ellen Krause (31:35):
Why thank you so much?
And to our listeners if youwere encouraged by this
conversation and want moreguided prayers, I would
encourage you to check out DrDrew's incredible devotional
Whispers of the Spirit.
Honestly, I cannot recommend itenough.
It will be linked in our shownotes and if this conversation
(31:59):
has blessed you, please showyour support by sharing it with
a friend, leaving a comment and,of course, subscribing, so
you'll never miss an episode.
Thank you so much for beingwith us today and we'll see you
next time on the Coffee andBible Time.
At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
Our goal is to help you delightin God's Word and thrive in
Christian living.
Each week, we talk to subjectmatter experts who broaden your
biblical understanding,encourage you in hard times and
provide life-building tips toenhance your Christian walk.
We are so glad you have joinedus.
(00:25):
Welcome back to the Coffee andBible Time podcast.
I'm Ellen, your host, and ourconversation today is about
something relatively uncharteredat this point in history, which
is faith and AI.
In history, which is faith andAI, I'm joined by Dr Drew
(00:49):
Dickens, a theologian whose worksits right at that intersection
of technology and spirituality.
He specializes in innovativeapproaches to faith-based
engagement and is the founder ofEncountering Peace Meditation
app and the Encounter podcast.
Dr Dickens holds a doctorate intheological anthropology from
Southern Methodist Universityand master's degrees from Dallas
(01:12):
Theological Seminary and BaylorUniversity.
Today, we'll explore how tocultivate a deeper prayer life
in a distracted world and how wecan be prepared to navigate AI
technology with wisdom.
Welcome, dr Dickens.
It's so exciting to have youwith us.
Wow, what a great topic.
Dr. Drew Dickens (01:34):
Ellen, it's an incredible joy and privilege
and so proud of you and yourteam and everybody there.
It's a great podcast thatyou've got and so excited for
you.
But thanks for carving out afew minutes for me today.
Ellen Krause (01:48):
Well, what a delight, and I personally am so
fascinated by the topic of AIand faith.
But I know for some people itcan be uncomfortable or even
unsettling.
So my hope is to take this topicfrom a place that might be like
(02:09):
that for some people to a placeof greater understanding.
But before we begin that partof the conversation, you
recently came out with a prayerdevotional that I had the
opportunity to read and wow, itis so powerful.
So I thought maybe you couldjust open our conversation today
(02:29):
with a little excerpt from oneof your guided prayers.
Would you be willing to do that?
Dr. Drew Dickens (02:35):
I would love that and thank you for asking
Whispers of the Spirit.
And people ask me a lot becauseso much of my focus has been on
AI and theology.
And why write a book aboutprayer, a devotion about prayer?
And it was really for me, itwas.
So much of my focus has been onAI and theology.
And why write a book aboutprayer, a devotion about prayer?
And it was really for me, itwas a natural in my head, it was
a natural transition,simultaneous focus, because as
we get so mired in thetechnology and all of this, oh
(02:56):
my gosh, you and I just wentthrough how many hoops to try
and make the technology work foryou and I to talk today, and so
it's so easy to get soexhausted and so exasperated
with the whole.
You know my phone's not doingthat or whatever, and I thought
you know what, even to myself, Ijust need to walk outside and
walk in the grass and look upinto creation and just pause and
be still and know, and so thisis a daily reminder for me to
(03:20):
re-engage with God.
You know, all throughout theday, without ceasing.
So there are several elementsof each day's kind of short
devotion and this is day two,which I call basics learning to
communicate Godward.
And I started with Philippians 4, 6.
Do not be anxious aboutanything, but in every situation
, by prayer and petition, withthanksgiving, present your
(03:42):
request to God.
And so in my introduction Isaid in the stillness, when your
heart yearns for refuge,philippians 4 whispers a divine
invitation present your requestto God.
Here lies the essence of prayer, doesn't it?
An open-hearted conversationwith God, where your worries,
gratitude and desires intertwinein a sacred trust.
(04:06):
In the quiet.
Prayer becomes more than aritual.
It's an intimate journeythrough which your soul finds
its authentic voice.
You can release your anxietiesin the landscape of worship.
Well, here you lay down yourtroubles at the feet of the
Almighty, not as an act ofdefeat but as a surrender, a
(04:27):
powerful declaration of ourdependence on God.
And in this sacred moment, ourheart swells with gratitude.
Thanksgiving is the melody thatharmonizes your requests,
reminding you of God's pastfaithfulness and his unchanging
nature.
Reminding you of God's pastfaithfulness and his unchanging
nature.
In this symphony ofsupplication and thanks, we can
(04:49):
find peace that transcendsunderstanding, guarding our
heart and mind in Christ Jesus.
Our prayers become a sanctuary,inviting you to bring
everything before the HeavenlyFather, son and Heavenly Holy
Spirit, one of the elements ofeach day's devotion that I have.
I was drawn back in the 1400s.
(05:10):
There was a Saint Ignatius ofLoyola, and he was very
passionate about using ourimagination.
When we inquire of God Ignatianspirituality, it's often called
or imaginative contemplation,and I have a brief one every day
.
It's a great time of justclosing our eyes and just
resting back.
Imagine a tranquil gardenbathed in dawn's soft golden
(05:36):
light.
Here, in the symphony ofcreation, your heart unburdens
its worries onto the path ofprayer.
I want you to see this pathstretching out before you,
smooth, level even.
And each step you take down,this path of prayer you take is
(05:58):
a whispered petition, a pleawrapped in gratitude, floating
upward like the morning mist ona dove's wing, with your eyes
closed, your mind's eye open, tosee the Holy Spirit encasing
you with the promise of thedivine presence, enveloping you
(06:21):
in a peace that transcends allunderstanding.
And in this sacred space, onthis path, lay down your worries
on level ground at the foot ofthe cross, and allow me to close
that moment in prayer.
May you enter God's sanctuarywith an open heart, knowing you
are heard, loved, held in thepresence of the Father, son and
(06:43):
Holy Spirit, feel your anxietiesdissolve into the hands of the
Almighty as he reminds you that,in every moment, his grace, his
love, his mercy are sufficient.
May the peace of the Lord,which surpasses all
understanding, guard your heartand mind as you step forward
into the world.
May you remember not to beanxious about everything or
(07:07):
anything.
In every situation, throughprayer and petition, with
thanksgiving, present yourrequest to God, and may his
presence be your constantcompanion, guiding you in every
decision and calming every fear.
Let gratitude fill your heartand trust in his unfailing love
and provision.
Now go forth in this assuranceof his peace, always embracing
(07:31):
each day with faith and courage.
In Jesus' name we do pray, amen.
Amen.
Ellen Krause (07:39):
That is so beautiful and, honestly, it's
one of the deepest, mostreflective, beautiful
devotionals I've ever read.
It truly is.
Dr. Drew Dickens (07:51):
Ellen, you're going to make me cry.
Thank you, Glory to God.
Glory to God.
Glory to God, he is definitelyat work in and through you for
sure.
Ellen Krause (08:01):
Well, I've noticed that people who really connect
with prayer, such as yourselves,often have a story behind how
they got there.
Could you share what your ownjourney into prayer has looked
like over time?
Dr. Drew Dickens (08:21):
I'm going to cry again.
My family, in so manytestimonies, began.
I was raised in a Christianhome.
We were not active in church,but we were just good
neighborhood Christian folks andboth of my grandparents I come
from a legacy of believers and Idon't take that for granted.
I did not have a personal walkand not to get too much in the
woods but weeds.
(08:44):
But I had some abuse in my lifeas a child and struggled with
that silently.
I felt like that was going tohave to be a secret that I
always carried with me.
And I went to a Billy Grahamcrusade back when I was in sixth
grade and was invited by someneighborhood families and went
and heard that there is a Godwho knows me, loves me by grace,
(09:07):
accepts me, and I was the onlyone to come forward in my group
that day, which was not mynatural bent.
And so I received a littlebooklet from the Billy Graham
team about prayer and I'd neverhad a personal relationship and
I found a little white book.
Now I have a brown one, aprayer journal, and I just
(09:27):
started writing every day andthis was sixth, seventh grade
now, and so early on I felt justa calling of the Spirit to
write and to engage and toencounter God and felt His
loving presence in my time withHim.
So that's really how it allbegan and I've been in
vocational ministry for my gosh25 years or so now.
(09:50):
Prayer has been an active partof every step of that process.
Ellen Krause (09:53):
That's incredible and thank you for being just so
authentic.
I know that helps the peoplethat are listening and myself
that we all have some type ofemotional trauma perhaps that
we're challenged with, and justhearing how you use prayer and
that it's been such a valuablepart of your healing process is
(10:15):
so encouraging.
Dr. Drew Dickens (10:16):
No, it was interesting that you say that
because for the longest, for 20some odd years, I was a part of
an evangelism ministry and weevery day engage with people on
the phone, email, chat, text,whatever they were interested in
learning more about arelationship with Christ.
And, as was often the case, weended every call in prayer and
(10:40):
every conversation in prayer.
And it was fascinating to mehow many times people would say
could I have a copy of that?
Instead of what, instead ofthat prayer?
And I was like that was I mean,no, there isn't a copy, I just
was praying from my heart andthat idea just blew people away.
(11:01):
And so, having that opportunityto understand and I don't mean
it casually, but of course weknow the power of prayer, but
physically even the effect thatthat can have on people, so many
people and, ellen, you and Itake it for granted perhaps, but
so many people navigate lifewithout ever hearing their name
(11:24):
and God's mentioned in the samesentence.
Navigate life without everhearing their name and God's
mentioned in the same sentence.
But you can send out a textmessage to all of your
subscribers and all your friends.
You can have thousands ofpeople praying for you within
moments, and so it's somethingI've tried to never take for
granted.
It's just the power of offeringa prayer to someone.
Ellen Krause (11:39):
Yes, and it's always so incredible to see the
looks on people's faces who havenever experienced that they're
just so truly and deeply touched, and that's God at work for
sure.
Dr. Drew Dickens (11:51):
Amen Amen.
Ellen Krause (11:53):
Well, let's shift gears a little bit into this
technology and AI.
How did you come to viewtechnology as an important
aspect of the Christian walk?
Dr. Drew Dickens (12:08):
So let's move from prayer to robots killing us
all.
Right, you know what?
When I was in seminary, I'vealways had this fascination.
I've always been an earlyadopter when it comes to
technology, first with theiPhone.
I mean just, you know, if itcomes out, I'm just I'm standing
in line.
And so I've always beenfascinated specifically with the
(12:30):
history that we have as peopleof faith and technology.
So I've always loved exploringthat.
So when I started working mydoctorate, I wanted to kind of
narrow that down from justtechnology in general and this
was six years ago, which soundswhich is an eternity in this
field, but I was really doing alot of research in the early
(12:50):
days.
Really, you can trace AI backto basically World War II, but I
started exploring some of themore recent works in that field.
Gpt hadn't even come out yet,so everybody kind of thought I
was crazy.
But I tell you it has been aroller coaster ride because you
can't lay back man, it changesevery day.
(13:14):
And writing my dissertation washorrible because it was written
in pencil, because everychapter I'd write, I'd go okay.
Well, that's not true anymore.
I'm citing.
I can't cite books, becausebooks have been written on it.
It's just moving that fast.
So it was kind of a narrowingof my fascination with
technology and how we use thatto engage with God.
Ellen Krause (13:31):
You know, what's fascinating about that is that
there's kind of this dichotomybetween how we want to use
technology but at the same time,we're living in a culture
that's constantly buzzing withnotifications and distractions
and so much information.
In your view, how does ourdigital environment affect our
(13:55):
ability to be fully present inprayer when we have so much, but
yet we really want to feel thepresence of God in prayer?
Dr. Drew Dickens (14:05):
Oh my gosh, ellen, when I come out with the
updated version of the book, I'mgoing to have you write one of
the testimonies for it, becausethat is really the word, it's
presence, and there's so manythings.
I was reading a fascinatingbook on the effects of the
telephone and it talked aboutthere was a lot of pushback on
the telephone.
Should we allow it in our homes?
I mean just in general, and sowe've always had this tension
(14:30):
between these devices that areable to bring us into closer
communion with each other andwith the Lord, but they are
fraught with distractions awayfrom those very things, and I
think we live in a world that isjust fraught with loneliness.
It's an epidemic and it'sdriven by so much of what we've
(14:51):
been talking about social mediaand mobile devices and there are
elements of that that are verymuch at play here with AI.
One of the things that concernsme is the effects on our
relationships.
I think we need to be varied.
To come back to your word, weneed to be present.
People always ask me what canwe do?
And I said this, ellen, whatyou and I are doing right now
(15:13):
two humans, two broken, messyhumans, struggling to find time
to talk to each other, butmaking it happen.
That's what we need to hold onto.
That's part of what it means tobe human, I think, to be in
community with messy people.
Ellen Krause (15:30):
Yes, that's so powerful because I have really
looked into that aspect ofloneliness and it's just it's
becoming such a tragedy amongstthe youth right, like just not
even knowing how to communicateanymore directly with one-on-one
(15:50):
, just sort of even a fear ofthose types of interactions.
But I love that.
You know God gives us this AItechnology because we can use it
to even learn more about him,can use it to even learn more
(16:11):
about him.
So help us understand, fromyour perspective, how Christians
should engage with AI, what aresome of the great things that
we can get from it?
And then also, what cautionswould you offer with that?
Dr. Drew Dickens (16:22):
Great questions, Thank you.
I think it begins with notunlike what you were just
mentioning about being present.
I think it begins with beingmindful and AI, I think, by
nature, is built to help thingsbecome easier and that can
become an idol.
So I think we need to bemindful of our relationship with
(16:46):
it, with its relationship andbeing careful with that pronoun
there, its relationship with us,and to pause periodically and
thank you again for letting meread out of whispers and pause
periodically and walk in thegrass.
So be mindful of screen time,be mindful of how we're engaging
(17:06):
with it.
I had met a buddy for lateafternoon coffee last week and
he told me that he got into along, multi-hour argument with
AI about the topic and, moreinterested, about your draining.
How did you feel after thatconversation?
Because anybody else, if it washe and I having that
(17:35):
conversation at some point Iwould have said hey, pause,
relax, man, Look at how this isaffecting you.
Ai won't stop you.
It would have talked foranother 10 hours.
So again, just look at yourselfas you're engaging with it and
thinking how am I reactingemotionally in this situation?
So be mindful of it.
Some of the cautions I wouldhave is.
(17:56):
I just mentioned one of them isjust not being mindful and
allowing it to begin to affectyou emotionally.
You mentioned an epidemic ofloneliness.
We were talking about that justa moment ago and, specifically
I know with a lot of yourlisteners and your subscribers,
it's interesting how thedemographics are falling into
place around this topic.
(18:18):
When it comes to AI, I think ithas immense potential to address
loneliness, but immense danger.
So what I mean by that isimagine, if you will, someone
that's elderly, in a nursinghome, struggling perhaps even
with mental illness or dementia,maybe not having any visitors,
anybody to talk to.
They now have an opportunity toengage with something, an
(18:40):
entity that can be, have thepresence anyway, of seeming to
be empathetic, sympathetic,caring and loving forever.
It won't have to go back home,it won't have to.
Hey, I'm tired, I'm hungry or Idisagree, and it's always there
.
Oh my gosh, what a beautifultool that can be for someone in
(19:01):
that situation.
On the other hand and itaffects us all, but I'm looking
at both ends of the spectrumperhaps the young teenager,
teenage girl who feels as thoughso often it breaks my heart,
but so often I've been insituations where I've been able
to counsel with someone not acounselor, but talk to someone
around the topic of cutting andself-harm.
And so often I'll talk tosomeone and they say I thought I
(19:23):
was the only one in the worldand my heart just breaks.
Often I'll talk to someone andthey say I thought I was the
only one in the world and myheart just breaks.
No, no, no, you're not aloneand I understand the pain, but
there you have someone who isable to now engage, chat and
text with something.
I'm trying not to assign itanthropomorphic, human
characteristics, but it will beeasy for us to fall in that and
(19:44):
develop some friendships with AI.
I've had several episodes of mypodcast where I'm actually
talking live with an AI anddeveloping a relationship and
having a fascinatingconversation, and I asked my
listeners at some point, did youforget I was talking to an AI?
And so many people emailed meback and said totally forgot.
And so again, you can see theadvantages to that, but the
(20:05):
disadvantages, Some of theexciting things, and sorry I'm
going to.
You asked a simple question,but it's a complex answer.
I think the most fascinatingaspects that have a benefit to
us as believers, as people offaith, is for it to be used as a
for the efficiencies of it forme to be able to have on my
(20:28):
phone, on my device, on mycomputer, access to all human
knowledge.
Just kind of wrap your headaround that phrase for a moment.
That has read every commentaryever published by every
Christian author, going back toancient times.
That has listened to everypodcast.
That's taken every collegeseminary course A phrase I
(20:50):
coined years ago, but AI isincapable of not answering, so
it won't say I don't know, I'llget back to you on that.
It has within seconds an answerto every question.
But, oh my gosh, how was is that?
You know, my wife and I talkedabout, you know, going out of
town for a long weekend andshe's an avid reader and I just
(21:11):
she always is involved in liketwo or three bible studies.
I'm so amazed by her, but wewere kind of joking.
But I said, have you studiedthe book of jude?
Nobody studies the book of jude.
Okay, it takes five minutes toread and everybody kind of does.
I said, you know, let's, let'shave it.
Come up with a four day readingplan and Bible study on the
book of Jude, written as thoughyou were Beth Moore kind of
(21:34):
thing.
Well, three seconds later,here's a you know four day
reading plan with with questionsand studies and, oh my gosh,
just the.
The ability for us, asbelievers, to use this tool to
go deeper and to walk moreclosely with the Lord is immense
and incredibly exciting, but weneed to be careful on the way.
(21:54):
Yes.
Ellen Krause (21:55):
You know one thing that just came to my mind, and
you know there may be listenersthat are even concerned with the
accuracy of the information.
And how do you decipher whereeven different, like religious
denominations, christiandenominations, answer questions
(22:17):
differently?
Are those usually spelled outwhen people go to search for
that information?
So I guess, discerning betweenyou know what's truth and not
truth and then just the varyingways of interpreting.
Yeah, I was in John 20 thismorning and I came across that
(22:38):
passage.
Dr. Drew Dickens (22:39):
Was it Pilate asking that passage?
Was Pilate asking I should havehad this 18.
Anyway, where Pilate asks Jesus, he said are you the Messiah,
are you the King?
And he said you speak truth.
You say that I am.
Then Pilate asked him what istruth?
(23:04):
I can't think of a morepertinent question for all of us
to be answering.
Right now.
I'm going to answer yourquestions backwards.
So, truth we need to definewhat that is for us, and it's
God, it's scripture.
But as we're going to bepounded more and more with
things that we see that aren'tverifiable, I think we need to
be careful of that and relyingon podcasts like yours, where
(23:25):
your listeners have a history,they know you, they know what
you do, which now gets me again.
I'm answering all yourquestions backwards.
I'm going to get into nowaccuracy, which is where you
started.
That's a great question.
The example I always give if I'mtalking to a larger group, it's
if I tell you I enjoy eatingsandwiches, especially peanut
butter and blank, you would saywhat?
Jelly, jelly, and maybe 99% ofthe people would.
(23:49):
Some poor soul is going to saypeanut butter and bananas, or
peanut butter and honey, orpeanut butter and nothing.
So it takes that informationwith all of its consumption of
everything and it's going to sayboy, you know what, 99% of the
time the word jelly goes there.
So really, ai at a basic levelis a next word predictor.
(24:11):
So it's learning how to talk.
So, along the way, when it'sconsuming all this data, it's
also picking up some sort ofside interests.
It's going huh, look, I'velearned how to become a brain
surgeon as I've learned how totalk, and I've learned how to
make peanut butter and jellysandwiches as I've learned how
to talk.
So now you're talking.
Another level of training downone level when it's starting to
(24:34):
maybe pick up some biases,especially when it starts
talking to you in the beginning,because it doesn't know
anything about you, it doesn'tknow your biases or your
preferences.
So it's going to start learningfrom you.
It's going to start saying thisand boy, you objected to that,
and so I'm going to say it thisway next time.
So it's learning not only datathat it's reading and consuming
(24:55):
all over the world since beforeSumerian writings to today, but
now it's going to start learningyou.
So that's another level oftraining.
So a third level which I thinkis dangerous is when you and I
start fine-tuning it to ourspecific, aligned worldview.
(25:17):
So in that case, I'm talking toAI, but I only want it to
answer me back as if it's aevangelical born again Christian
.
That's great, but you couldalso fine tune one that's only
respond back to me as an atheistor as a Buddhist or as a
(25:37):
whatever, and not tell anyone.
So now, all of a sudden, I'mengaging with an AI that's been
fine-tuned a certain way and Idon't know that.
So you use the word discerning.
That's important is I need tostop for a moment and go.
Okay, who's been fine-tuningthis?
What language-based languagemodel are they using?
(25:59):
And that's a little harder todo, because now, all of a sudden
, I just want to know how manyquarts are in a gallon and I
don't want to stop and figureout who fine tuned this language
model.
But it's going to be importantto do for us to stop and go.
Ok, who's behind this?
I know your passion is abouttranslations of the Bible and I
(26:28):
love that you're going to ask methat question in a moment,
because so many of us pick aBible because of the size of the
font you know, or how manyflowers are on the cover or
something, and we never reallystop and go.
You know who was on thetranslation committee of this
thing and what philosophies didthey have?
We need to start asking thosequestions when it comes to AI,
but it'll be easy for us not toto, because it's designed to
give us quick and easy answers.
Ellen Krause (26:46):
That's so fascinating and it's like an
onion with so many layers thatyou can keep.
I mean, we could talk aboutthis forever and I do.
But I don't need to start towrap things up here the single
(27:09):
most vital thing that everyChristian should understand
before using AI in theirspiritual or even their
professional life.
Dr. Drew Dickens (27:12):
I think, kind of where we ended the last
conversation is that it's notsentient, it's not human, it's
not divine, it's not a createdbeing, it's not sentient, it's
not human, but I feel like wewill begin to engage with it as
though it is, and so that's whatI would ask everybody to be
mindful of.
I've said it several times, inseveral different ways but pause
(27:35):
, walk in the grass and engagewith a real messy human,
regardless of whether you'reusing this professionally or
just for fun, or even in yourspiritual walk.
I would encourage everybody tonot run from it, but walk
towards it with eyes wide open.
Right now.
I would really encourageeverybody to walk towards it,
but with eyes wide open.
Ellen Krause (27:57):
Excellent, excellent advice.
Well, Drew, where can ourlisteners keep up with you and
just learn more about whatyou're doing and your prayer
devotional?
Dr. Drew Dickens (28:08):
Well, you know what?
The easy way is just DrewDickens, my name, Drew, like a
picture.
Dickens, like Charles,drewdickenscom.
And boy, everything exceptpictures of the grandkids.
Everything's there about theWhispers of the Spirit, as well
as the Encounter in Peacepodcast and the AI and
Spirituality podcast.
So yeah, anything andeverything drewdickenscom.
(28:30):
Thank you.
Ellen Krause (28:32):
All right, well, we will make sure we include
links to all of those in ourshow notes.
Thank you, drew.
Before I let you go, though, Ihave to ask you some of our
favorite questions here that weask our guests.
So what Bible is your go-toBible, and what translation is
it?
Dr. Drew Dickens (28:50):
The ESV is my go-to and I had a pen in it and
it broke and I messed up Genesis.
So don't ask me to read fromGenesis 35 to, but the ESV has
been my go-to through seminaryand I've actually had this
rebound twice because with mynotes and everything else and
(29:12):
I'm sure all of us kind of feelthe same way it is a what's
called a not to nerd out aformal equivalence, more of a
word for word translation.
It depends upon why I'm reading.
I will use the NASB, which ishard to read, but it's probably
the closest word for wordtranslation we have for both
Greek and Hebrew.
I also love using the Amplifiedjust for fun, which is like
(29:35):
reading the Bible as a thesaurus.
But I just love theexpansiveness of the Amplified
If I'm reading just for thesheer joy of sitting in the
grass, I just love the NewLiving.
So again, I don't have just one, but probably the ESV, but then
some others, depending upon whyI'm in the Word.
Ellen Krause (29:55):
Awesome, okay, excellent, excellent
translations.
All right, do you have anyfavorite Bible journaling
supplies that you like to use?
Dr. Drew Dickens (30:05):
Yes, and you might not have ever seen these
before, but it's a paper journaland a pen.
I don't know if you've seenthose tools or not.
If you don't know how to usethem, you can look up on YouTube
, I think.
But I love to doodle and I loveto hear Mr Digital AI guy.
But I still go around with mycomputer satchel.
I still have a legal pad and apen in there all the time.
(30:27):
There's my combination rightthere.
Okay, last question here.
Ellen Krause (30:30):
What is your favorite app or website for
Bible study tools?
Dr. Drew Dickens (30:36):
Well, that's not fair, because I've got an
app.
So one shameful plug for theEncountering Peace app, which,
by the way, we're about torelease version two, which I'm
super excited about.
I've had a really closepartnership with YouVersion the
YouVersion Bible app forever for12, 15 years or so now, but I
(30:59):
love the YouVersion Bible appand the Encounter Daily
Meditation is based on theirverse of the day.
I just love that team.
But so I would say the EversionBible We'll put links to both
of those in our show notes.
Ellen Krause (31:13):
Well, dr Dickens, thank you so much just for being
here, for sharing your insightand your heart, and certainly
your experience.
Dr. Drew Dickens (31:22):
Again, as I said, I'm thrilled with what
God's doing through you and yourteam and everybody there, and
congratulations on all that andvery honored for you to ask me
to be a part of the episodetoday.
Ellen Krause (31:35):
Why thank you so much?
And to our listeners if youwere encouraged by this
conversation and want moreguided prayers, I would
encourage you to check out DrDrew's incredible devotional
Whispers of the Spirit.
Honestly, I cannot recommend itenough.
It will be linked in our shownotes and if this conversation
(31:59):
has blessed you, please showyour support by sharing it with
a friend, leaving a comment and,of course, subscribing, so
you'll never miss an episode.
Thank you so much for beingwith us today and we'll see you
next time on the Coffee andBible Time.
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