February 6, 2025 • 44 mins
What if the concept of sin isn't outdated, but rather a critical element missing from modern Christian living? Join us as we engage with Karl Clauson who challenges you to confront and eradicate the sins that may be hindering your spiritual growth. Karl and I delve into society's tendency to embrace personal truth and self-acceptance, often deflecting blame onto external factors instead of directly addressing our own sinfulness. Through this conversation, we offer a path toward liberation from the chains of sin, urging listeners to bring hidden struggles into the light and break free through Christ's power.
Our discussion reveals the profound transformation that occurs when we move from self-deception to breakthrough, particularly in the context of relationships and personal failures. With Karl's guidance, we explore the courage it takes to recognize and confess sins, rather than rationalizing them away. This journey isn't just about admitting our faults but understanding the difference between surface sins and deeper spiritual disconnects. By addressing underlying issues, such as pride and laziness, we can realign ourselves with God's wisdom and experience genuine change, leading to deeper, more fulfilling relationships.
As we wrap up this episode, Karl shares powerful testimonies of transformation and the joy of his personal milestones, like becoming a grandparent. The conversation underlines the importance of shifting our approach to scripture, focusing on transformation rather than mere information. Karl's book, "Killing Sin," serves as a valuable resource for anyone seeking to conquer sin and live an empowered life. We invite you to embark on this transformative journey, armed with the insights and tools shared in this episode, and wish you a blessed path towards overcoming personal struggles.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
Our goal is to help you delightin God's Word and thrive in
Christian living.
Each week we talk to subjectmatter experts who broaden your
biblical understanding,encourage you in hard times and
provide life-building tips toenhance your Christian walk.
We are so glad you have joinedus.
(00:25):
Welcome back to the Coffee andBible Time podcast.
This is Ellen, your host.
You know, sin doesn't seem to besomething that people really
worry much about anymore, andmany people seem to think it's
even an outdated concept thathas been replaced by personal
(00:50):
truth and self-acceptance.
And instead of confronting ourwrongdoings, we blame our past
or our circumstances or otherpeople.
But shifting the blame doesn'tfree us.
Other people, but shifting theblame doesn't free us.
It actually traps us and itkeeps us stuck in cycles of
guilt, regret and frustration.
(01:13):
Well, my guest today, carlClausen, author of Killing Sin,
conquer that One.
Thing that Is Defeating youoffers a different way.
Thing that is defeating youoffers a different way.
He challenges us to stopexcusing sin and start dealing
with it head on.
He believes victory starts withone bold step identifying and
(01:37):
eliminating the sin that'sholding us back.
And actually, when we ignoresin, it doesn't go away, the
grip just tightens and we keepmaking the same mistakes,
hurting ourselves and thosearound us, and over time we just
become numb to the things thatare wrecking our lives.
(01:57):
And so today, let's take anhonest look at our hearts.
Honest look at our hearts.
What's the one thing that keepstripping us up?
And you're really going to bechallenging yourself today with
that.
I know I will be myself as well.
But when we start doing that,we can free us up and we can
(02:21):
kill it for good.
Well, carl Clausen is the hostof Moody Radio's Carl and Crew,
a nationally syndicated radioprogram heard nationwide, and
the lead pastor of 180 ChicagoChurch.
His mission is to inspire aspiritual revolution in the
church that reaches the world,in the church that reaches the
(02:44):
world.
Carl and his bride, junan, havebeen married for 37 years and
have two adult children and onegrandchild, new granddaughter
yes, I'm a grandpa.
That's so amazing.
And in addition to his new book, he also is the author of the
Seven Resolutions when Self-HelpEnds and Good God's Power
(03:08):
Begins, and we will put a linkto that interview that I had the
joy of talking with Carl beforeon that, so please welcome Carl
.
Thanks for being back.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Thank you, ellen.
Thank you for having me intoday, Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yes, I had an opportunity to read your book
Front to Back, quite some timeago actually, and I knew right
away that this book is somethingwe all desperately need.
Yeah, sin is something that'sjust not one and done in life.
(03:44):
Right, when one battle ends, itcomes at us from another
direction, so I love that youwant to equip people to conquer
sin, one battle at a time.
So tell us about sin inpeople's lives.
Are people real about their sinor do you think that they've
(04:04):
become desensitized to it?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I think it's a little bit of both, but it leads more
toward the latter.
There's a push in the Westernchurch today that creates such a
performance mentality that whenwe find ourselves falling short
, we can hide, we can try todeny, we can attempt to minimize
(04:33):
or blame or rationalize awaysin in our life.
And sin is just.
It's from the great Greco-Romanword hamartia, which is to miss
the mark.
It was actually used as a termfor spear throwing and bow and
arrow competitions that thedistance from the bullseye to
(04:55):
wherever your spear or arrow waslanding was the measurement
called sin.
And we all have sinned, we'veall missed the mark and fallen
short of the glory of God.
And the beautiful thing aboutthe power of Christ is that he
came to break the chains of sin.
And yet, although sin has beenpaid for, it has not been fully
(05:18):
eradicated.
And so the goal of killing sinis not sinless perfection, it's
to get off that madness wheel,this horrific cycle of sin shame
, repent and repeat.
And there is so much hope hereBecause if you have the courage
(05:41):
to bring what's been in theshadows into the light of truth,
god has the power to bringwhat's been in the shadows into
the light of truth God has.
God has the power to give usfreedom, so clearly stated.
I would give it 80-20.
I would say 80% of the peoplethat are in the Western church
today haven't been a pastor forgoodness sakes, over three
(06:02):
decades.
I would say 80% of the peoplethat I shepherd, pastor,
disciple, lead, probably knowthe one thing that is defeating
them and out of a hopeless senseof I don't think I'm ever going
(06:22):
to get a victory here, we kindof push it to the shadows and
just hope and pray.
Oh God, let the 80% of methat's pretty well-ordered, 90%
of me that's pretty well-ordered, let that kind of exceed my
failings, as it were.
The problem with that notion,ellen, is that it's never hidden
and it clouds every aspect ofour lives.
(06:45):
But God wants to give usfreedom.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, yeah, he absolutely does.
You know our, our sinful nature.
We just want to do what we wantto do and oftentimes we're
we're blinded by the impact thatthe sin is having on people
around us as well.
And Carl.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I thought the sin is having on people around us as
well.
Yeah, that's a big one, ellen.
That's worth lingering on for amoment because oftentimes we
think well, whatever it iswhether it's a habitual gossip,
habitual story, stretching,which is a fancy way of saying
lies you start sipping winepretty quick.
(07:26):
Wine is sipping you.
I see that a lot in the churchtoday.
We see a lot of young peoplethat are hooked on Adderall.
That's a legalized speed today.
Marijuana, with its legalizationon a lot of fronts in a lot of
states, it's got a lot ofChristians in a moment of hurt
(07:48):
and weakness.
A lot of young people, a lot ofyoung people.
We have a lot of people,20-somethings, in our church
family on both campuses inChicago, many of whom have been
honest with me and said I boughtthe lie, I started using
marijuana and I'm now hooked,and now it's messing with my
(08:08):
head.
The amount of psychotic breaksthat are happening because of
the highly, not only addictivechemicals in this modern day
marijuana, but its effect on ourpsyche, on our psyche.
Nurses and doctors are sayingthat emergency wards are being
(08:29):
overloaded with people that arestruggling with that.
So, no matter what it may be,god wants to bring it into the
light, and food is big.
Pornography is significant,Believe it or not.
I've interviewed and asked forresponses from thousands of
people and one of the biggestresponses, ellen, is I'm lazy, I
(08:53):
don't redeem time well, I watchtoo many videos, I binge watch,
Netflix, and so the dilemma, asyou said it, is that we find
ourselves in this horrible cyclewhere we say I'm not going to
do this anymore, I'm going tostring together a few days, and
(09:18):
sometimes, by sheer grit, we canget a day or a week or maybe a
month, but inevitably, if we arenot allowing these things in
our lives that are missing themark to be eradicated by the
power of God and his grace,we're going to find ourselves
right back in the soup again,man, or playing spiritual
whack-a-mole.
We trade one sin for another.
But God has hope, man, he hashope and he's got a plan.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
He does.
You know, carl, one of thethings I read in your book that
really caught my attention.
You said that God can only flexhis strength within us when we
I've got something in my lifethat is a reoccurring issue.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
And so many people feel like this, and I've spoken
with my son and daughter Mostparticularly.
I've got a 36-year-old son whois a committed Jesus follower,
(10:30):
year old son who is a committedJesus follower, and the attempt
to work in our own strength toget these things dealt with is
utterly futile.
But by God's strength, inweakness, as you said.
You know the interesting thingabout God's economy the way up
is down.
You want to go to the front ofthe line, go to the back of the
line.
I mean, that's been said overand over again, but the.
But the greatest commodity inthe, in the abundant life in
(10:52):
Christ, is the celebration ofweakness.
You find Paul saying that insecond Corinthians 12, a whole
chapter committed to it.
In my weakness he is strong andthat seems so crazy at first
blush, but then, if you startdigging below the surface a
little bit, you go yeah, that'sright, it's just.
(11:13):
Like you know, I am a granddad.
So here comes a granddadmetaphor brand new granddad 20,.
A little over 24 hours, thislittle one's been born.
But you know that kid istotally helpless, right?
I mean, little baby Kate.
She can't do anything forherself.
She needs help.
And isn't it amazing that theword for children, when Jesus
(11:38):
said let the children come to me.
The original Greek word therenot that I'm into, I'm not a
Greek scholar, but I know enoughto get me out of the mud the
word there is nepios and itmeans without words.
And he said Jesus said, unlessyou come to me as a little child
, a little nepios, you're notfit for the kingdom of heaven.
(11:58):
And what he's saying here isthat if you come to me like a
little child, what's a littlechild?
Bring to the table Nothing,nothing.
All you do is raise your handsand maybe can utter dada, mom.
And that's it.
And the Greek word there,nepios, is one without words.
(12:25):
And I think we've tried tosophisticate our faith so much
that we've sophisticated ourselfout of the orbit of God's power
.
We've gotten to the point wherewe think I've got to do this,
and the secret sauce of theabundant life in Christ is
(12:45):
embracing our weakness,embracing the fact that we can't
put our sin to death, whichwe're called to do Romans 8, 13,
.
Jesus himself said it.
Which we're called to do Romans8, 13,.
Jesus himself said it, but thathe can.
You know that, full stop.
That's where the Christian lifebegins and ends in weakness and
(13:12):
embracing weakness if, look, Iknow probably all ages and
stages of life, listen to yourpodcast, youtube channel,
whatever.
But here's the truth If you canlearn this in your twenties, if
you can learn this in yourthirties, you're going to save
yourself a ton of grief.
Embracing weakness is thesecret sauce of the abundant
life in Christ.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
And those are the people that are finding
breakthrough as opposed tostaying stuck.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, those are the ones that find breakthrough.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
It's over and over in scripture.
People up just in this wholeprocess of getting to the point
of being willing to release.
Release, you know and recognize.
What you need to let go of isself-deception and rationalizing
sin.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
And I know even for myself, like sometimes I'll
think about confessing a sin andthen all of a sudden my mind
wants to go to well, but youknow this, that or the other
thing, right?
Yes?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, I mean, it's family of origin, it's.
You know, I was confronted bymy bride.
I put this in the book.
Talk about a self-effacingstory by my bride.
I put this in the book.
Talk about a self-effacingstory.
Seven years into our marriageand I was walking through the
home and I was walking past mybride.
(14:45):
She's sitting on the edge ofthe bed.
She was doing something.
I didn't even say anything toher.
We're just going about our day.
I was walking past her.
She reached out and grabbed mywrist and I looked down and her
chin's quivering and I'm like,oh no, in a nanosecond
everything goes to your mind.
A parent died, someone's hurt,something's going on.
I said what's going on?
(15:07):
And her chin's quivering andshe said I'm scared to death.
I said why she goes?
I don't love you.
And I said what do you mean?
You don't love me.
You need to know something,ellen.
We're up to our knees inpowerful ministry.
We were talking about it.
We were loving it, it was great.
Got two little kids at home,two teeny little kids, and from
(15:32):
the outside we're cooking.
We could pass the.
We got a rock in marriage test.
Yeah, we can pass that.
But we weren't, and it's becauseI wasn't loving her as Christ
loved the church.
And I had a big why on the roadright there that I had to face,
(15:52):
and that was am I going to ownthis for what it is or am I
going to rationalize it?
And I went around the corner.
I looked in the mirror of ourvanity, of the restroom that we
had, and I said two sinker man,we were really big time even
back in the day two sink vanity.
(16:13):
I looked up over that mirrorand before me was this battle
raging.
Everything that came into mymind was all the stuff that she
was doing wrong in our marriageand she would have gladly owned
those things.
But the Lord grabbed me by hisgrace, and it was his grace
alone that said, carl, I wantyou to take a long look at your
(16:34):
life.
And it was in that moment thatthe Lord showed me no, I'm not
loving my wife as Christ lovedthe church.
And it was humbling because I'mMr Alaska.
I was born and raised up therein the 1,100-mile dog sled race
across Alaska.
So I was born.
You can build it, you can fixit, you can do it.
And I couldn't do it, but I,you can build it, you can fix it
(17:00):
, you can do it and I couldn'tdo it but I had to own it and I
think that process of owningwhat's missing the mark in our
life I don't care if it'slaziness or drinking or smoking
dope or popping Adderall orlying or gossiping in the lobby.
Friend of mine said he wasraised in a home where he took
the pastor to lunch every Sunday.
I'm like, really Every Sunday.
He said, yeah, we'd get in thecar and we'd rip our pastor up
(17:23):
one side and down the other, weate him up.
And he said that was thetradition I was raised in.
And he said I had to break thatcritical spirit, that sin of
critical spirit spirit, that sinof critical spirit, and I think
(17:43):
the courage that it takes isthe grace of God to even own it.
But when you can own it lookout, ellen, it can change
everything.
And for me, now I've beenmarried 37 years, guess what?
My bride's my best buddy andshe feels loved because she is.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah, god is so good, like you said, when we really
do, he wants to help us.
Right, he wants to get throughthis period.
One thing that you alsomentioned is the difference
between the overarching sin andthe underlying sin, and that
(18:18):
it's so important to recognizethat.
The outward symptom might beone thing, but what is really
going on?
Can you explain that?
A?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
little bit more.
Yeah, it's so funny that youmentioned that.
Would you believe I had my bookopen to that page?
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Really.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
To that page and I don't know why Spirit of God
must have been prepping me here.
So if an overarching sin ispride, the underarching sin is
higher.
The underlying, the real sin iswhat we're driving at is
highest authority is not GodGluttony, that's kind of the
presenting sin.
The real sin is satisfactionapart from God.
(18:56):
If you got greed, the realproblem is disconnect with the
generosity of God.
Hoarding is security not foundin God.
Lust is gratification apartfrom God.
Envy is contentment not foundin God.
Cowardice is fear of man morethan God and laziness is.
(19:18):
This requires a little bit ofexplanation and this is a big
one.
Laziness or not, redeeming timeis huge.
It's lacking the wisdom of God.
And what's interesting aboutwisdom and how that relates to
even time redemption and bustingfree from a lazy spirit which,
by the way, is one of the thingsthat God has been conquering in
(19:39):
me.
And you might think, how doesthis happen?
Because from a time, sheer time, production standpoint, I feel
like I'm one of the mostproductive guys going.
I mean, I have got a lot on myplate.
We've got two church campuses,I'm an author, I happen to be a
radio host for a four-hour showfive days a week from Chicago,
(20:01):
so you might go.
How in the world can youstruggle with laziness?
24 hours is a lot of time, andI'm not talking about becoming a
workaholic, I'm talking aboutredeeming time.
Redeeming time.
You can take a nap to the gloryof God.
Some of you are going.
Yes, you can hug a grandbabyand rock them to the glory of
(20:25):
God.
It's not about being busy, it'sabout redeeming it.
But when you feel like time'sbeing frittered away, you got to
go.
What's going on now?
Here's what's interesting.
In Psalm 90, the only song thatMoses apparently wrote maybe he
wasn't a good writer, so onlyone landed in the book of Psalms
.
But if he wasn't a good writer,that's okay.
But in the 90th Psalm he saidteach us to number our days that
(20:47):
we may gain a heart of wisdom.
What's interesting is time.
Redemption produces wisdom.
A lot of us would think, oh,wise people redeem time.
No, when you redeem time, yougrow wise.
What a unique thing.
So, yeah, all of thesepresenting sins or overarching
(21:07):
sins have an underlying issue,and those that have the courage
to face it will find freedom.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Well, let's jump into how to kill sin and just maybe
some overarching principles thatyou have, and I know, if you're
listening to this, you'redefinitely going to want to pick
up Carl's book, because you gointo so much more into depth,
into all these things that we'retalking about here.
But let's talk about the threeingredients.
(21:36):
That you say is the list forkilling sin in our lives.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, the place of power is where I want to begin,
because if you wade into tryingto kill sin in your own strength
, let's just say pick one, let'sjust go for, let's go after.
Let's go after wine.
Let's say you started sippingwine and now wine's sipping you,
let's just go there.
(22:00):
You can pick any numberPornography, overeating, you
name it, whatever it is gossip.
We've got to get positioned forpower, and the place of
positioning for power ishumility.
God resists the proud, but hegives grace to the humble.
(22:21):
There's no gray zone in that.
We know that in 1 Peter 5, wefind that if you humble yourself
under God's mighty hand, hewill lift you up.
What a picture.
You humble yourself under God'smighty hand, he will lift you
up.
In other words, if you putyourself in the palm of God's
hand, he's going to lift you.
And this isn't a self-elevationthing or an aspiration to be
(22:44):
lifted high by God.
So people can see I get animage of me being tucked into
the hand of God and peeking outthrough his fingers, so to speak
, and looking out and going, wow, look at what God can do with
me.
Humility, andrew Murray says,is the one virtue that gives
birth to every other virtue.
Now, that's a big statement.
And he also said Andrew Murrayis one of the, I think, the
(23:06):
greatest author on humility.
He also said the absence ofhumility is explanation enough
for every character defect inevery person, which is a bold
statement, but I think it's true.
So humility is the thing thatkeeps us close to God.
This is why the pride of Satanhimself caused him to fall from
(23:29):
the presence of God, and we knowthat in our own lives.
So humility is job one.
Secondly is proximity to Jesus,rather than focusing on
performance.
I love Jesus's words to thedisciples.
He's walking on the way to thecross.
Actually, in those couple ofdays it's not certain if it was
(23:51):
48 hours, 24 hours before hewent to the cross, but right in
that window of time he takes hisdisciples into a vineyard and
he says boys, look down here.
And he grabs a big old fistfulof grape leaves, pick them up,
looks down.
He would have looked at a bunchof grapes in high season.
And he said look at that,that's what I want your life to
(24:11):
be.
And everyone listening goesyeah, that's what I want my life
to be.
I want to bear much fruit.
And he said it's to my father'sglory that you bear much fruit.
In other words, god isglorified by us bearing fruit.
So we look at that.
We got a choice and Jesus said,to clarify what the choice
(24:31):
would be, he said I am the vine,you're the branch, you abide in
me and I in you.
You will bear much fruit, forapart from me, you can do
nothing.
And I think a lot of us in theWestern church today, because of
the absence of a lot of realstark persecution we have slight
persecution but starkpersecution and because we've
also got a very flawed approachabout spiritual growth.
(24:52):
About spiritual growth, we'vethought I need to produce fruit
in my life.
That is a flawed assumption.
We don't need to produce fruitin our life.
We need to have proximity toJesus and out of proximity to
Jesus he produces the fruit inour life.
I'm the vine, you're the branch, you abide in me.
(25:13):
And so every time we focus onfruit production, you're the
branch, you abide in me.
And so every time we focus onfruit production, here's what
happens we don't see it becausewe're wrote, we're focused the
wrong direction, and then wefeel like oh no, I don't have
love, I don't have joy, I don'thave peace.
I gotta paste that on me.
And we paste on fake fruit andeverybody can tell it that are
closest to us.
You walk up From a distance, abanana, a plastic banana, looks
(25:37):
maybe edible, but you get upclose it's not.
And I think one of the coolestthings about the fruit of the
Spirit that we find in Galatians5 is that one of the fruits of
the Spirit is self-control andproximity to Jesus, staying
close to Him, and that's throughBible reading and prayer and
conversation, and I meanconversation.
(25:58):
That's through Bible readingand prayer and conversation, and
I mean conversation.
The Spirit of God then willilluminate the truth of God's
Word as we have it hidden in ourheart.
Remind us of that.
We raise the sails of our souland the Spirit of God can carry
that truth along in us and webegin to bear fruit in our life.
So proximity to Jesus and thenraising the sails of our soul by
(26:20):
the Holy Spirit will remind usof those truths.
I mean, if you can camp out onthree things humility before God
, proximity to Jesus and raisingthe sails of your soul, so that
the Holy Spirit, you can beattentive to what the Holy
Spirit's reminding you of themost robust teaching on the
power of the Holy Spirit.
I call him my lost God.
(26:41):
I totally neglected it.
It's John 14 and John 16.
That's the most robust teachingon the power of the Holy Spirit
.
Anything in Corinthians isreally corrective in nature.
Because they were going crazy,man.
They thought it was all aboutjumping over pews, you know, and
going nutso.
That wasn't it at all.
In fact, paul warned him.
(27:01):
He says oh, come on, man, don'tbe so crazy that when lost
people walk in they think you'velost your ever-loving mind.
But the real crux of spiritfilling is that the Spirit of
(27:22):
God will take the Word of God,as we've been abiding in Christ,
and supercharge it withreminders of what he wants us to
do with that word and how weapply it to our life.
And so humility, proximity andlet the spirit of God do what
the spirit of God came to do andwe're going to be then we will
have the fuel to do this.
All this other stuff, all theseattempts Look, I've got a day
planner that has goals in it andstuff like that.
But my goals, I quit goalsetting about 20 years ago.
(27:45):
I quit it, gave it up, becausemy goals were usually short of
what God had for me and theycreated a sense of oh, I got to
get this done.
Now.
I'm not saying that you don'thave a goal to get a sin out of
your life, but don't let thatgoal turn into works of self,
(28:06):
because there's no hope there.
It's only Christ.
It all comes back to the footof the cross, doesn't it?
Ellen?
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Yeah, it sure does, Carl.
What would you say to someonewho, let's say, this person
that's dealing with their issuewith wine or drinking and they
feel like they are in this cycle, but at the same time, we
(28:38):
always want instantgratification, right?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
This relationship that you're talking about being
in God's an in-depth experience,like a continuing growing
saturating ourselves in Christand who he is and what he can do
for us.
But how would you encouragesomeone who is maybe feeling
like, well, I am doing this, butit's taking so long to get the
(29:16):
results that I want?
Speaker 2 (29:19):
You know this is going to sound crazy, but it's
not.
It's taking so long to get theresults that I want.
You know this is going to soundcrazy, but it's not.
It's biblical.
I think we set people out and Iknow you're big on Bible and
that's right on and we need toget there.
But oftentimes we head to theBible with the wrong motivation
or the wrong posture.
I'm a big believer and I'm a bigfan of spiritual formation.
(29:42):
I'm a big believer that we haveerred greatly by telling people
get in the Bible, get on yourknees and pray.
I believe all that.
So don't call me a heretic.
Yet Let me explain.
Ellen wouldn't call me aheretic, but you may watch him.
I think those are secondarydisciplines after the most
important disciplines, which isquiet introspection.
(30:06):
Search me, know me, try me.
It's the back end of Psalm 139.
Oh God, search me, know me, tryme.
He made it into a song See ifthere would be any hurtful way
in me and lead me in the wayeverlasting.
There is something sorevolutionary about quiet
introspection because it's inthat quiet place.
I'm telling you five minutesalone with God or you're asking
(30:30):
him to search you, see what'smissing the mark and take me a
new way that will revolutionizeBible reading, because now you
won't go to the Bible asinformation, you'll look at the
Bible for the sake oftransformation, and that's huge.
See, scripture was meant to betransformational.
We've made it informational inthe Western culture and so we've
(30:53):
got all these Bible studies,all these podcasts, all these
resources, all thesecommentaries I've got shelves of
commentaries sitting next to mehere but if that information
doesn't turn it into application, we're toast.
I mean what Jesus said in theSermon on the Mount man two
different guys trying to build ahouse and both have the same
(31:15):
real estate, both the samestorms coming their way.
One survives storms, the otherone doesn't.
They both had the same realestate, both the same storms
coming their way.
One survives storms, the otherone doesn't.
They both had the sameinformation coming in.
One guy did one thing a littlebit differently, or one gal did
one thing a little bitdifferently.
And it's one simple thing.
One person heard it and appliedit and the other one didn't.
And it's the difference betweenbuilding your life on the sand
(31:37):
and building it on the rock.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
And I know that's in your wheelhouse, Ellen.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
So true, Carl.
Well, as we wrap things up here, tell our audience just a
little bit more about KillingSin, your book, and really what
your hope is for them if theychoose to read it.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I know that if you apply these truths, you are
going to get freedom.
I know that, I've seen it.
I've got a great assistant who,five years she has sustained.
This is a significant story.
But the cliff notes are sheneeded weight loss, she was
(32:26):
morbidly obese, she was off theindex charts, off the charts,
body mass index off the charts.
And she couldn't do a sleepstudy because she was stressed
out, stressed out, couldn't havesomeone observing her because
of some abuse in her childhood.
And the doctor told her if Ican't do a sleep study on you, I
(32:51):
can't do bypass surgery andyou're going to die.
And she cried out to God andsaid God, what do I do?
And she was just broken andweak enough where she was at a
level of honesty with God thatwas profoundly different.
And she heard the Holy Spiritsaid own what you can own.
And she said OK, here's thedeal, God, I feel like my full
(33:12):
switch is broken, but I know Istruggle with gluttony, but my
full switch is broken, Could youfix it?
And he did and she said I feellike I am sedentary and I know
your spirit's told me to move,but I can't move, but I'm going
to cling to you each day and shestarted taking baby steps.
Five years later she's got 190pounds.
That has been off for fiveyears.
(33:32):
She's now off five medicationsthat she was on for everything
from high blood pressure to youname it, and God's given her
victory and now she'sflourishing mightily.
In the book Killing Sin wedidn't even get into how to kill
it.
We talked about power and howto identify it and those kind of
(33:53):
things.
But what I do is take a veryfine tooth combed biblical
approach to all right.
Jesus said if your eye causedyou to sin, gouge it out.
That's pretty serious talk.
Paul says in Romans 8.13, ifyou sow to the flesh, you're
going to reap death.
But if, by the power of theSpirit, by the way, ding, ding,
ding, capital S.
(34:14):
Spirit power you put to deaththe deeds of the flesh, you're
going to live.
Spirit power you put to deaththe deeds of the flesh, you're
going to live.
So what I would say is no matterwhat you're struggling with,
don't let shame beat you down.
Drag it into the light, Confessit, Own it, Even get a little
(34:36):
bit angry about it.
Not about you, but about thatsin, Because you can only cling
to what is good when you hatewhat is killing you, but then go
to work and ask God how do youwant me to put this to death?
And there may need to beboundaries that you put on sin.
I've seen men that turnsmartphones into dumb phones For
those that are struggling withwine.
You got to bring that into thelight of confession with trusted
(35:00):
people that won't use thatconfession as a sword in your
back tomorrow, and then, throughprayer, you begin to strategize
how am I going to put thisthing to death and what I tried
outlining killing sin is a verystrategic, clear, simple plan
for how to do that, and I haveseen untold hundreds of people
(35:21):
walk in victory over things thatthey thought for years was just
going to be a part of theirlife, and it doesn't have to be.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
God has the power to put to death.
I just want to encourage ourlisteners that today's the very
beginning.
Sin isn't once and done but,this also gives you tools in
(36:03):
your tool belt experience of howGod conquers one thing that
will help you with the next, andso I just want to encourage
anyone who's feeling hopeless orjust struggling that through
God's grace, you can be free.
(36:24):
Yeah, carl, how can people findout more information about you
in the book?
Speaker 2 (36:31):
You know, what's really cool is there was a guy
that had the website, the URLfor what we now have, and I
called him up.
I told him I was writing thisbook and I said I know you've
used this for some blogging alittle bit.
But I said, would you, is thereany way you would sell me your
URL?
And I gave him the vision forthe book and he goes I'm not
going to sell it to you, I'mgoing to give it to you, will
you let me?
Will you let me do some writingon there from time to time?
(36:54):
So we formed a bit of a tribeand it's growing.
So you go to killsincom and youcan find a link to the book and
just killsincom.
There's no way I could havegotten that.
It's too short a URL, but thisman was gracious enough to give
it to us.
And then you're going to find alot of resources in killing sin
(37:19):
.
You're going to find QR lot ofresources in Killing Sin.
You're going to find QR codesthroughout the book that will
help you do deeper dives onthings that you maybe need to go
a little bit deeper on.
It's a short book by intentionand we just hope it blesses you
big time Killsincom.
Check it out, and you can getKilling Sin wherever Moody
Publishers or, most easily, onAmazon.
(37:41):
I think it'll set you back ninebucks right now, so it's pretty
affordable.
A big two cups of expensivecoffee and you've got yourself a
resource that is going to setyou free.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yes, yes, and it's one of those resources I think
that I'll always want to keep.
And it's one of those resourcesI think that I'll always want
to keep.
You know, it's like it's onthat bookshelf of good long-term
resources.
All right, carl, before we go,I do have to ask you some of our
favorite Bible study toolquestion what Bible is your
go-to Bible and what translationis it?
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, it's the ESV.
My good friend, wayne Grudemwas the general editor and after
he got done with it he sent metwo leather-bound study Bibles
of ESV.
So since he's my good friendand I respect him so much
theologically, I'm like I got tocheck this out and I fell in
love with it immediately.
So, yeah, I've been all overthe place Started New American
(38:35):
Standard, went into NIV, now I'mESV, but I'm ESV until God
takes me out of here.
I love that translation.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Awesome.
Yeah, that's the one we usealso at our church.
Okay, do you have any favoritejournaling supplies that you
like to use?
Speaker 2 (38:52):
I do.
I have it here close by this.
Is it right here?
This is it.
This may sound super funny, butit's called the Mr Pen Sleek.
I know there's a lot ofhighlighters that a lot of you
use highlighters.
Let me tell you why I like MrPen Sleek.
Mr Pen Sleek does not bleedthrough the pages and it is so
(39:18):
smooth it's it's like a gel, soit's not like a normal
fluorescent highlighter.
I tell people all the time getMr Pen Sleek and I use four
different colors and I kind ofhad a color-coded approach to
highlighting.
Sometimes I find myself needingto go back and reference things
(39:39):
and it's a great tool, sothat's pretty practical.
Now I'm getting down to brandnames, Ellen.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Okay, well, we'll put a link for our listeners on
that.
That's a great tip, all right,lastly, what's your favorite app
or website for Bible studytools?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Bible study tools website for Bible study tools.
Bible study tools.
You know it's very interesting,but this this one might
surprise you.
I am now using AI for the firsttime and I'm finding that and
I've checked it.
So I would be careful with someof the AI generators.
I'm not going to tell you whichones, but be careful with some
(40:20):
because they probably veer awayfrom how do I say this truth,
encounters with God's word andstuff.
Most are pretty fair, but on acouple of these AI generators I
did a study on cessationismversus continuationism, which is
just whether or not themiraculous spiritual gifts and
(40:41):
sign gifts are still operatingtoday, and I was wanting to
brush up on actually what WayneGrudem says in his I've got it
right here systematic theology,and so I just asked him a
question.
I find that good AI is scouringthe internet for good content
and if you focus the questionrightly, you'll get good
responses.
(41:01):
Double check, make sure you gotsome good content there.
But I've found phenomenalcontent as a resource, quick
resource, for AI.
Don't be afraid of AI.
You just got to run it throughthe grid and the filter.
Back in the day, when theprinting press came out, a lot
of Christians thought oh no, wecan't use the printing press.
And then a guy named CHSpurgeon decided no, let's use
(41:25):
this and let's print it.
And he started sending palletloads of his messages all around
the globe.
And so God can use things thatare being used in a bad way for
good.
So don't be afraid of it, justdouble check it.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I know the one
that I use occasionally has aplace where you can see what
sources.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Oh no, mine has sources too.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, yes, so that's pretty cool then, so you can
really validate, which isawesome.
Well, carl, thank you so muchfor joining us today.
Thank you, ellen.
Well, carl, thank you so muchfor joining us today.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Thank you, Ellen.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Congratulations on your new book, your new
grandbaby.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Exciting things, and, listeners, this is going to be
a wonderful resource for youthat reinforces that we don't
have to keep making excuses orletting sin define our lives.
We can conquer sin, startingright now and today.
So thank you so much forjoining us.
(42:25):
Be sure and grab a copy ofCarl's book Killing Sin.
We will have all the links inour show notes.
We love you all.
Have a blessed day.
At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
Our goal is to help you delightin God's Word and thrive in
Christian living.
Each week we talk to subjectmatter experts who broaden your
biblical understanding,encourage you in hard times and
provide life-building tips toenhance your Christian walk.
We are so glad you have joinedus.
(00:25):
Welcome back to the Coffee andBible Time podcast.
This is Ellen, your host.
You know, sin doesn't seem to besomething that people really
worry much about anymore, andmany people seem to think it's
even an outdated concept thathas been replaced by personal
(00:50):
truth and self-acceptance.
And instead of confronting ourwrongdoings, we blame our past
or our circumstances or otherpeople.
But shifting the blame doesn'tfree us.
Other people, but shifting theblame doesn't free us.
It actually traps us and itkeeps us stuck in cycles of
guilt, regret and frustration.
(01:13):
Well, my guest today, carlClausen, author of Killing Sin,
conquer that One.
Thing that Is Defeating youoffers a different way.
Thing that is defeating youoffers a different way.
He challenges us to stopexcusing sin and start dealing
with it head on.
He believes victory starts withone bold step identifying and
(01:37):
eliminating the sin that'sholding us back.
And actually, when we ignoresin, it doesn't go away, the
grip just tightens and we keepmaking the same mistakes,
hurting ourselves and thosearound us, and over time we just
become numb to the things thatare wrecking our lives.
(01:57):
And so today, let's take anhonest look at our hearts.
Honest look at our hearts.
What's the one thing that keepstripping us up?
And you're really going to bechallenging yourself today with
that.
I know I will be myself as well.
But when we start doing that,we can free us up and we can
(02:21):
kill it for good.
Well, carl Clausen is the hostof Moody Radio's Carl and Crew,
a nationally syndicated radioprogram heard nationwide, and
the lead pastor of 180 ChicagoChurch.
His mission is to inspire aspiritual revolution in the
church that reaches the world,in the church that reaches the
(02:44):
world.
Carl and his bride, junan, havebeen married for 37 years and
have two adult children and onegrandchild, new granddaughter
yes, I'm a grandpa.
That's so amazing.
And in addition to his new book, he also is the author of the
Seven Resolutions when Self-HelpEnds and Good God's Power
(03:08):
Begins, and we will put a linkto that interview that I had the
joy of talking with Carl beforeon that, so please welcome Carl
.
Thanks for being back.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Thank you, ellen.
Thank you for having me intoday, Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yes, I had an opportunity to read your book
Front to Back, quite some timeago actually, and I knew right
away that this book is somethingwe all desperately need.
Yeah, sin is something that'sjust not one and done in life.
(03:44):
Right, when one battle ends, itcomes at us from another
direction, so I love that youwant to equip people to conquer
sin, one battle at a time.
So tell us about sin inpeople's lives.
Are people real about their sinor do you think that they've
(04:04):
become desensitized to it?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I think it's a little bit of both, but it leads more
toward the latter.
There's a push in the Westernchurch today that creates such a
performance mentality that whenwe find ourselves falling short
, we can hide, we can try todeny, we can attempt to minimize
(04:33):
or blame or rationalize awaysin in our life.
And sin is just.
It's from the great Greco-Romanword hamartia, which is to miss
the mark.
It was actually used as a termfor spear throwing and bow and
arrow competitions that thedistance from the bullseye to
(04:55):
wherever your spear or arrow waslanding was the measurement
called sin.
And we all have sinned, we'veall missed the mark and fallen
short of the glory of God.
And the beautiful thing aboutthe power of Christ is that he
came to break the chains of sin.
And yet, although sin has beenpaid for, it has not been fully
(05:18):
eradicated.
And so the goal of killing sinis not sinless perfection, it's
to get off that madness wheel,this horrific cycle of sin shame
, repent and repeat.
And there is so much hope hereBecause if you have the courage
(05:41):
to bring what's been in theshadows into the light of truth,
god has the power to bringwhat's been in the shadows into
the light of truth God has.
God has the power to give usfreedom, so clearly stated.
I would give it 80-20.
I would say 80% of the peoplethat are in the Western church
today haven't been a pastor forgoodness sakes, over three
(06:02):
decades.
I would say 80% of the peoplethat I shepherd, pastor,
disciple, lead, probably knowthe one thing that is defeating
them and out of a hopeless senseof I don't think I'm ever going
(06:22):
to get a victory here, we kindof push it to the shadows and
just hope and pray.
Oh God, let the 80% of methat's pretty well-ordered, 90%
of me that's pretty well-ordered, let that kind of exceed my
failings, as it were.
The problem with that notion,ellen, is that it's never hidden
and it clouds every aspect ofour lives.
(06:45):
But God wants to give usfreedom.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, yeah, he absolutely does.
You know our, our sinful nature.
We just want to do what we wantto do and oftentimes we're
we're blinded by the impact thatthe sin is having on people
around us as well.
And Carl.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I thought the sin is having on people around us as
well.
Yeah, that's a big one, ellen.
That's worth lingering on for amoment because oftentimes we
think well, whatever it iswhether it's a habitual gossip,
habitual story, stretching,which is a fancy way of saying
lies you start sipping winepretty quick.
(07:26):
Wine is sipping you.
I see that a lot in the churchtoday.
We see a lot of young peoplethat are hooked on Adderall.
That's a legalized speed today.
Marijuana, with its legalizationon a lot of fronts in a lot of
states, it's got a lot ofChristians in a moment of hurt
(07:48):
and weakness.
A lot of young people, a lot ofyoung people.
We have a lot of people,20-somethings, in our church
family on both campuses inChicago, many of whom have been
honest with me and said I boughtthe lie, I started using
marijuana and I'm now hooked,and now it's messing with my
(08:08):
head.
The amount of psychotic breaksthat are happening because of
the highly, not only addictivechemicals in this modern day
marijuana, but its effect on ourpsyche, on our psyche.
Nurses and doctors are sayingthat emergency wards are being
(08:29):
overloaded with people that arestruggling with that.
So, no matter what it may be,god wants to bring it into the
light, and food is big.
Pornography is significant,Believe it or not.
I've interviewed and asked forresponses from thousands of
people and one of the biggestresponses, ellen, is I'm lazy, I
(08:53):
don't redeem time well, I watchtoo many videos, I binge watch,
Netflix, and so the dilemma, asyou said it, is that we find
ourselves in this horrible cyclewhere we say I'm not going to
do this anymore, I'm going tostring together a few days, and
(09:18):
sometimes, by sheer grit, we canget a day or a week or maybe a
month, but inevitably, if we arenot allowing these things in
our lives that are missing themark to be eradicated by the
power of God and his grace,we're going to find ourselves
right back in the soup again,man, or playing spiritual
whack-a-mole.
We trade one sin for another.
But God has hope, man, he hashope and he's got a plan.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
He does.
You know, carl, one of thethings I read in your book that
really caught my attention.
You said that God can only flexhis strength within us when we
I've got something in my lifethat is a reoccurring issue.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
And so many people feel like this, and I've spoken
with my son and daughter Mostparticularly.
I've got a 36-year-old son whois a committed Jesus follower,
(10:30):
year old son who is a committedJesus follower, and the attempt
to work in our own strength toget these things dealt with is
utterly futile.
But by God's strength, inweakness, as you said.
You know the interesting thingabout God's economy the way up
is down.
You want to go to the front ofthe line, go to the back of the
line.
I mean, that's been said overand over again, but the.
But the greatest commodity inthe, in the abundant life in
(10:52):
Christ, is the celebration ofweakness.
You find Paul saying that insecond Corinthians 12, a whole
chapter committed to it.
In my weakness he is strong andthat seems so crazy at first
blush, but then, if you startdigging below the surface a
little bit, you go yeah, that'sright, it's just.
(11:13):
Like you know, I am a granddad.
So here comes a granddadmetaphor brand new granddad 20,.
A little over 24 hours, thislittle one's been born.
But you know that kid istotally helpless, right?
I mean, little baby Kate.
She can't do anything forherself.
She needs help.
And isn't it amazing that theword for children, when Jesus
(11:38):
said let the children come to me.
The original Greek word therenot that I'm into, I'm not a
Greek scholar, but I know enoughto get me out of the mud the
word there is nepios and itmeans without words.
And he said Jesus said, unlessyou come to me as a little child
, a little nepios, you're notfit for the kingdom of heaven.
(11:58):
And what he's saying here isthat if you come to me like a
little child, what's a littlechild?
Bring to the table Nothing,nothing.
All you do is raise your handsand maybe can utter dada, mom.
And that's it.
And the Greek word there,nepios, is one without words.
(12:25):
And I think we've tried tosophisticate our faith so much
that we've sophisticated ourselfout of the orbit of God's power
.
We've gotten to the point wherewe think I've got to do this,
and the secret sauce of theabundant life in Christ is
(12:45):
embracing our weakness,embracing the fact that we can't
put our sin to death, whichwe're called to do Romans 8, 13,
.
Jesus himself said it.
Which we're called to do Romans8, 13,.
Jesus himself said it, but thathe can.
You know that, full stop.
That's where the Christian lifebegins and ends in weakness and
(13:12):
embracing weakness if, look, Iknow probably all ages and
stages of life, listen to yourpodcast, youtube channel,
whatever.
But here's the truth If you canlearn this in your twenties, if
you can learn this in yourthirties, you're going to save
yourself a ton of grief.
Embracing weakness is thesecret sauce of the abundant
life in Christ.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
And those are the people that are finding
breakthrough as opposed tostaying stuck.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, those are the ones that find breakthrough.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
It's over and over in scripture.
People up just in this wholeprocess of getting to the point
of being willing to release.
Release, you know and recognize.
What you need to let go of isself-deception and rationalizing
sin.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
And I know even for myself, like sometimes I'll
think about confessing a sin andthen all of a sudden my mind
wants to go to well, but youknow this, that or the other
thing, right?
Yes?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, I mean, it's family of origin, it's.
You know, I was confronted bymy bride.
I put this in the book.
Talk about a self-effacingstory by my bride.
I put this in the book.
Talk about a self-effacingstory.
Seven years into our marriageand I was walking through the
home and I was walking past mybride.
(14:45):
She's sitting on the edge ofthe bed.
She was doing something.
I didn't even say anything toher.
We're just going about our day.
I was walking past her.
She reached out and grabbed mywrist and I looked down and her
chin's quivering and I'm like,oh no, in a nanosecond
everything goes to your mind.
A parent died, someone's hurt,something's going on.
I said what's going on?
(15:07):
And her chin's quivering andshe said I'm scared to death.
I said why she goes?
I don't love you.
And I said what do you mean?
You don't love me.
You need to know something,ellen.
We're up to our knees inpowerful ministry.
We were talking about it.
We were loving it, it was great.
Got two little kids at home,two teeny little kids, and from
(15:32):
the outside we're cooking.
We could pass the.
We got a rock in marriage test.
Yeah, we can pass that.
But we weren't, and it's becauseI wasn't loving her as Christ
loved the church.
And I had a big why on the roadright there that I had to face,
(15:52):
and that was am I going to ownthis for what it is or am I
going to rationalize it?
And I went around the corner.
I looked in the mirror of ourvanity, of the restroom that we
had, and I said two sinker man,we were really big time even
back in the day two sink vanity.
(16:13):
I looked up over that mirrorand before me was this battle
raging.
Everything that came into mymind was all the stuff that she
was doing wrong in our marriageand she would have gladly owned
those things.
But the Lord grabbed me by hisgrace, and it was his grace
alone that said, carl, I wantyou to take a long look at your
(16:34):
life.
And it was in that moment thatthe Lord showed me no, I'm not
loving my wife as Christ lovedthe church.
And it was humbling because I'mMr Alaska.
I was born and raised up therein the 1,100-mile dog sled race
across Alaska.
So I was born.
You can build it, you can fixit, you can do it.
And I couldn't do it, but I,you can build it, you can fix it
(17:00):
, you can do it and I couldn'tdo it but I had to own it and I
think that process of owningwhat's missing the mark in our
life I don't care if it'slaziness or drinking or smoking
dope or popping Adderall orlying or gossiping in the lobby.
Friend of mine said he wasraised in a home where he took
the pastor to lunch every Sunday.
I'm like, really Every Sunday.
He said, yeah, we'd get in thecar and we'd rip our pastor up
(17:23):
one side and down the other, weate him up.
And he said that was thetradition I was raised in.
And he said I had to break thatcritical spirit, that sin of
critical spirit spirit, that sinof critical spirit, and I think
(17:43):
the courage that it takes isthe grace of God to even own it.
But when you can own it lookout, ellen, it can change
everything.
And for me, now I've beenmarried 37 years, guess what?
My bride's my best buddy andshe feels loved because she is.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah, god is so good, like you said, when we really
do, he wants to help us.
Right, he wants to get throughthis period.
One thing that you alsomentioned is the difference
between the overarching sin andthe underlying sin, and that
(18:18):
it's so important to recognizethat.
The outward symptom might beone thing, but what is really
going on?
Can you explain that?
A?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
little bit more.
Yeah, it's so funny that youmentioned that.
Would you believe I had my bookopen to that page?
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Really.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
To that page and I don't know why Spirit of God
must have been prepping me here.
So if an overarching sin ispride, the underarching sin is
higher.
The underlying, the real sin iswhat we're driving at is
highest authority is not GodGluttony, that's kind of the
presenting sin.
The real sin is satisfactionapart from God.
(18:56):
If you got greed, the realproblem is disconnect with the
generosity of God.
Hoarding is security not foundin God.
Lust is gratification apartfrom God.
Envy is contentment not foundin God.
Cowardice is fear of man morethan God and laziness is.
(19:18):
This requires a little bit ofexplanation and this is a big
one.
Laziness or not, redeeming timeis huge.
It's lacking the wisdom of God.
And what's interesting aboutwisdom and how that relates to
even time redemption and bustingfree from a lazy spirit which,
by the way, is one of the thingsthat God has been conquering in
(19:39):
me.
And you might think, how doesthis happen?
Because from a time, sheer time, production standpoint, I feel
like I'm one of the mostproductive guys going.
I mean, I have got a lot on myplate.
We've got two church campuses,I'm an author, I happen to be a
radio host for a four-hour showfive days a week from Chicago,
(20:01):
so you might go.
How in the world can youstruggle with laziness?
24 hours is a lot of time, andI'm not talking about becoming a
workaholic, I'm talking aboutredeeming time.
Redeeming time.
You can take a nap to the gloryof God.
Some of you are going.
Yes, you can hug a grandbabyand rock them to the glory of
(20:25):
God.
It's not about being busy, it'sabout redeeming it.
But when you feel like time'sbeing frittered away, you got to
go.
What's going on now?
Here's what's interesting.
In Psalm 90, the only song thatMoses apparently wrote maybe he
wasn't a good writer, so onlyone landed in the book of Psalms
.
But if he wasn't a good writer,that's okay.
But in the 90th Psalm he saidteach us to number our days that
(20:47):
we may gain a heart of wisdom.
What's interesting is time.
Redemption produces wisdom.
A lot of us would think, oh,wise people redeem time.
No, when you redeem time, yougrow wise.
What a unique thing.
So, yeah, all of thesepresenting sins or overarching
(21:07):
sins have an underlying issue,and those that have the courage
to face it will find freedom.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Well, let's jump into how to kill sin and just maybe
some overarching principles thatyou have, and I know, if you're
listening to this, you'redefinitely going to want to pick
up Carl's book, because you gointo so much more into depth,
into all these things that we'retalking about here.
But let's talk about the threeingredients.
(21:36):
That you say is the list forkilling sin in our lives.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, the place of power is where I want to begin,
because if you wade into tryingto kill sin in your own strength
, let's just say pick one, let'sjust go for, let's go after.
Let's go after wine.
Let's say you started sippingwine and now wine's sipping you,
let's just go there.
(22:00):
You can pick any numberPornography, overeating, you
name it, whatever it is gossip.
We've got to get positioned forpower, and the place of
positioning for power ishumility.
God resists the proud, but hegives grace to the humble.
(22:21):
There's no gray zone in that.
We know that in 1 Peter 5, wefind that if you humble yourself
under God's mighty hand, hewill lift you up.
What a picture.
You humble yourself under God'smighty hand, he will lift you
up.
In other words, if you putyourself in the palm of God's
hand, he's going to lift you.
And this isn't a self-elevationthing or an aspiration to be
(22:44):
lifted high by God.
So people can see I get animage of me being tucked into
the hand of God and peeking outthrough his fingers, so to speak
, and looking out and going, wow, look at what God can do with
me.
Humility, andrew Murray says,is the one virtue that gives
birth to every other virtue.
Now, that's a big statement.
And he also said Andrew Murrayis one of the, I think, the
(23:06):
greatest author on humility.
He also said the absence ofhumility is explanation enough
for every character defect inevery person, which is a bold
statement, but I think it's true.
So humility is the thing thatkeeps us close to God.
This is why the pride of Satanhimself caused him to fall from
(23:29):
the presence of God, and we knowthat in our own lives.
So humility is job one.
Secondly is proximity to Jesus,rather than focusing on
performance.
I love Jesus's words to thedisciples.
He's walking on the way to thecross.
Actually, in those couple ofdays it's not certain if it was
(23:51):
48 hours, 24 hours before hewent to the cross, but right in
that window of time he takes hisdisciples into a vineyard and
he says boys, look down here.
And he grabs a big old fistfulof grape leaves, pick them up,
looks down.
He would have looked at a bunchof grapes in high season.
And he said look at that,that's what I want your life to
(24:11):
be.
And everyone listening goesyeah, that's what I want my life
to be.
I want to bear much fruit.
And he said it's to my father'sglory that you bear much fruit.
In other words, god isglorified by us bearing fruit.
So we look at that.
We got a choice and Jesus said,to clarify what the choice
(24:31):
would be, he said I am the vine,you're the branch, you abide in
me and I in you.
You will bear much fruit, forapart from me, you can do
nothing.
And I think a lot of us in theWestern church today, because of
the absence of a lot of realstark persecution we have slight
persecution but starkpersecution and because we've
also got a very flawed approachabout spiritual growth.
(24:52):
About spiritual growth, we'vethought I need to produce fruit
in my life.
That is a flawed assumption.
We don't need to produce fruitin our life.
We need to have proximity toJesus and out of proximity to
Jesus he produces the fruit inour life.
I'm the vine, you're the branch, you abide in me.
(25:13):
And so every time we focus onfruit production, you're the
branch, you abide in me.
And so every time we focus onfruit production, here's what
happens we don't see it becausewe're wrote, we're focused the
wrong direction, and then wefeel like oh no, I don't have
love, I don't have joy, I don'thave peace.
I gotta paste that on me.
And we paste on fake fruit andeverybody can tell it that are
closest to us.
You walk up From a distance, abanana, a plastic banana, looks
(25:37):
maybe edible, but you get upclose it's not.
And I think one of the coolestthings about the fruit of the
Spirit that we find in Galatians5 is that one of the fruits of
the Spirit is self-control andproximity to Jesus, staying
close to Him, and that's throughBible reading and prayer and
conversation, and I meanconversation.
(25:58):
That's through Bible readingand prayer and conversation, and
I mean conversation.
The Spirit of God then willilluminate the truth of God's
Word as we have it hidden in ourheart.
Remind us of that.
We raise the sails of our souland the Spirit of God can carry
that truth along in us and webegin to bear fruit in our life.
So proximity to Jesus and thenraising the sails of our soul by
(26:20):
the Holy Spirit will remind usof those truths.
I mean, if you can camp out onthree things humility before God
, proximity to Jesus and raisingthe sails of your soul, so that
the Holy Spirit, you can beattentive to what the Holy
Spirit's reminding you of themost robust teaching on the
power of the Holy Spirit.
I call him my lost God.
(26:41):
I totally neglected it.
It's John 14 and John 16.
That's the most robust teachingon the power of the Holy Spirit
.
Anything in Corinthians isreally corrective in nature.
Because they were going crazy,man.
They thought it was all aboutjumping over pews, you know, and
going nutso.
That wasn't it at all.
In fact, paul warned him.
(27:01):
He says oh, come on, man, don'tbe so crazy that when lost
people walk in they think you'velost your ever-loving mind.
But the real crux of spiritfilling is that the Spirit of
(27:22):
God will take the Word of God,as we've been abiding in Christ,
and supercharge it withreminders of what he wants us to
do with that word and how weapply it to our life.
And so humility, proximity andlet the spirit of God do what
the spirit of God came to do andwe're going to be then we will
have the fuel to do this.
All this other stuff, all theseattempts Look, I've got a day
planner that has goals in it andstuff like that.
But my goals, I quit goalsetting about 20 years ago.
(27:45):
I quit it, gave it up, becausemy goals were usually short of
what God had for me and theycreated a sense of oh, I got to
get this done.
Now.
I'm not saying that you don'thave a goal to get a sin out of
your life, but don't let thatgoal turn into works of self,
(28:06):
because there's no hope there.
It's only Christ.
It all comes back to the footof the cross, doesn't it?
Ellen?
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Yeah, it sure does, Carl.
What would you say to someonewho, let's say, this person
that's dealing with their issuewith wine or drinking and they
feel like they are in this cycle, but at the same time, we
(28:38):
always want instantgratification, right?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
This relationship that you're talking about being
in God's an in-depth experience,like a continuing growing
saturating ourselves in Christand who he is and what he can do
for us.
But how would you encouragesomeone who is maybe feeling
like, well, I am doing this, butit's taking so long to get the
(29:16):
results that I want?
Speaker 2 (29:19):
You know this is going to sound crazy, but it's
not.
It's taking so long to get theresults that I want.
You know this is going to soundcrazy, but it's not.
It's biblical.
I think we set people out and Iknow you're big on Bible and
that's right on and we need toget there.
But oftentimes we head to theBible with the wrong motivation
or the wrong posture.
I'm a big believer and I'm a bigfan of spiritual formation.
(29:42):
I'm a big believer that we haveerred greatly by telling people
get in the Bible, get on yourknees and pray.
I believe all that.
So don't call me a heretic.
Yet Let me explain.
Ellen wouldn't call me aheretic, but you may watch him.
I think those are secondarydisciplines after the most
important disciplines, which isquiet introspection.
(30:06):
Search me, know me, try me.
It's the back end of Psalm 139.
Oh God, search me, know me, tryme.
He made it into a song See ifthere would be any hurtful way
in me and lead me in the wayeverlasting.
There is something sorevolutionary about quiet
introspection because it's inthat quiet place.
I'm telling you five minutesalone with God or you're asking
(30:30):
him to search you, see what'smissing the mark and take me a
new way that will revolutionizeBible reading, because now you
won't go to the Bible asinformation, you'll look at the
Bible for the sake oftransformation, and that's huge.
See, scripture was meant to betransformational.
We've made it informational inthe Western culture and so we've
(30:53):
got all these Bible studies,all these podcasts, all these
resources, all thesecommentaries I've got shelves of
commentaries sitting next to mehere but if that information
doesn't turn it into application, we're toast.
I mean what Jesus said in theSermon on the Mount man two
different guys trying to build ahouse and both have the same
(31:15):
real estate, both the samestorms coming their way.
One survives storms, the otherone doesn't.
They both had the same realestate, both the same storms
coming their way.
One survives storms, the otherone doesn't.
They both had the sameinformation coming in.
One guy did one thing a littlebit differently, or one gal did
one thing a little bitdifferently.
And it's one simple thing.
One person heard it and appliedit and the other one didn't.
And it's the difference betweenbuilding your life on the sand
(31:37):
and building it on the rock.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
And I know that's in your wheelhouse, Ellen.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
So true, Carl.
Well, as we wrap things up here, tell our audience just a
little bit more about KillingSin, your book, and really what
your hope is for them if theychoose to read it.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I know that if you apply these truths, you are
going to get freedom.
I know that, I've seen it.
I've got a great assistant who,five years she has sustained.
This is a significant story.
But the cliff notes are sheneeded weight loss, she was
(32:26):
morbidly obese, she was off theindex charts, off the charts,
body mass index off the charts.
And she couldn't do a sleepstudy because she was stressed
out, stressed out, couldn't havesomeone observing her because
of some abuse in her childhood.
And the doctor told her if Ican't do a sleep study on you, I
(32:51):
can't do bypass surgery andyou're going to die.
And she cried out to God andsaid God, what do I do?
And she was just broken andweak enough where she was at a
level of honesty with God thatwas profoundly different.
And she heard the Holy Spiritsaid own what you can own.
And she said OK, here's thedeal, God, I feel like my full
(33:12):
switch is broken, but I know Istruggle with gluttony, but my
full switch is broken, Could youfix it?
And he did and she said I feellike I am sedentary and I know
your spirit's told me to move,but I can't move, but I'm going
to cling to you each day and shestarted taking baby steps.
Five years later she's got 190pounds.
That has been off for fiveyears.
(33:32):
She's now off five medicationsthat she was on for everything
from high blood pressure to youname it, and God's given her
victory and now she'sflourishing mightily.
In the book Killing Sin wedidn't even get into how to kill
it.
We talked about power and howto identify it and those kind of
(33:53):
things.
But what I do is take a veryfine tooth combed biblical
approach to all right.
Jesus said if your eye causedyou to sin, gouge it out.
That's pretty serious talk.
Paul says in Romans 8.13, ifyou sow to the flesh, you're
going to reap death.
But if, by the power of theSpirit, by the way, ding, ding,
ding, capital S.
(34:14):
Spirit power you put to deaththe deeds of the flesh, you're
going to live.
Spirit power you put to deaththe deeds of the flesh, you're
going to live.
So what I would say is no matterwhat you're struggling with,
don't let shame beat you down.
Drag it into the light, Confessit, Own it, Even get a little
(34:36):
bit angry about it.
Not about you, but about thatsin, Because you can only cling
to what is good when you hatewhat is killing you, but then go
to work and ask God how do youwant me to put this to death?
And there may need to beboundaries that you put on sin.
I've seen men that turnsmartphones into dumb phones For
those that are struggling withwine.
You got to bring that into thelight of confession with trusted
(35:00):
people that won't use thatconfession as a sword in your
back tomorrow, and then, throughprayer, you begin to strategize
how am I going to put thisthing to death and what I tried
outlining killing sin is a verystrategic, clear, simple plan
for how to do that, and I haveseen untold hundreds of people
(35:21):
walk in victory over things thatthey thought for years was just
going to be a part of theirlife, and it doesn't have to be.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
God has the power to put to death.
I just want to encourage ourlisteners that today's the very
beginning.
Sin isn't once and done but,this also gives you tools in
(36:03):
your tool belt experience of howGod conquers one thing that
will help you with the next, andso I just want to encourage
anyone who's feeling hopeless orjust struggling that through
God's grace, you can be free.
(36:24):
Yeah, carl, how can people findout more information about you
in the book?
Speaker 2 (36:31):
You know, what's really cool is there was a guy
that had the website, the URLfor what we now have, and I
called him up.
I told him I was writing thisbook and I said I know you've
used this for some blogging alittle bit.
But I said, would you, is thereany way you would sell me your
URL?
And I gave him the vision forthe book and he goes I'm not
going to sell it to you, I'mgoing to give it to you, will
you let me?
Will you let me do some writingon there from time to time?
(36:54):
So we formed a bit of a tribeand it's growing.
So you go to killsincom and youcan find a link to the book and
just killsincom.
There's no way I could havegotten that.
It's too short a URL, but thisman was gracious enough to give
it to us.
And then you're going to find alot of resources in killing sin
(37:19):
.
You're going to find QR lot ofresources in Killing Sin.
You're going to find QR codesthroughout the book that will
help you do deeper dives onthings that you maybe need to go
a little bit deeper on.
It's a short book by intentionand we just hope it blesses you
big time Killsincom.
Check it out, and you can getKilling Sin wherever Moody
Publishers or, most easily, onAmazon.
(37:41):
I think it'll set you back ninebucks right now, so it's pretty
affordable.
A big two cups of expensivecoffee and you've got yourself a
resource that is going to setyou free.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yes, yes, and it's one of those resources I think
that I'll always want to keep.
And it's one of those resourcesI think that I'll always want
to keep.
You know, it's like it's onthat bookshelf of good long-term
resources.
All right, carl, before we go,I do have to ask you some of our
favorite Bible study toolquestion what Bible is your
go-to Bible and what translationis it?
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, it's the ESV.
My good friend, wayne Grudemwas the general editor and after
he got done with it he sent metwo leather-bound study Bibles
of ESV.
So since he's my good friendand I respect him so much
theologically, I'm like I got tocheck this out and I fell in
love with it immediately.
So, yeah, I've been all overthe place Started New American
(38:35):
Standard, went into NIV, now I'mESV, but I'm ESV until God
takes me out of here.
I love that translation.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Awesome.
Yeah, that's the one we usealso at our church.
Okay, do you have any favoritejournaling supplies that you
like to use?
Speaker 2 (38:52):
I do.
I have it here close by this.
Is it right here?
This is it.
This may sound super funny, butit's called the Mr Pen Sleek.
I know there's a lot ofhighlighters that a lot of you
use highlighters.
Let me tell you why I like MrPen Sleek.
Mr Pen Sleek does not bleedthrough the pages and it is so
(39:18):
smooth it's it's like a gel, soit's not like a normal
fluorescent highlighter.
I tell people all the time getMr Pen Sleek and I use four
different colors and I kind ofhad a color-coded approach to
highlighting.
Sometimes I find myself needingto go back and reference things
(39:39):
and it's a great tool, sothat's pretty practical.
Now I'm getting down to brandnames, Ellen.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Okay, well, we'll put a link for our listeners on
that.
That's a great tip, all right,lastly, what's your favorite app
or website for Bible studytools?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Bible study tools website for Bible study tools.
Bible study tools.
You know it's very interesting,but this this one might
surprise you.
I am now using AI for the firsttime and I'm finding that and
I've checked it.
So I would be careful with someof the AI generators.
I'm not going to tell you whichones, but be careful with some
(40:20):
because they probably veer awayfrom how do I say this truth,
encounters with God's word andstuff.
Most are pretty fair, but on acouple of these AI generators I
did a study on cessationismversus continuationism, which is
just whether or not themiraculous spiritual gifts and
(40:41):
sign gifts are still operatingtoday, and I was wanting to
brush up on actually what WayneGrudem says in his I've got it
right here systematic theology,and so I just asked him a
question.
I find that good AI is scouringthe internet for good content
and if you focus the questionrightly, you'll get good
responses.
(41:01):
Double check, make sure you gotsome good content there.
But I've found phenomenalcontent as a resource, quick
resource, for AI.
Don't be afraid of AI.
You just got to run it throughthe grid and the filter.
Back in the day, when theprinting press came out, a lot
of Christians thought oh no, wecan't use the printing press.
And then a guy named CHSpurgeon decided no, let's use
(41:25):
this and let's print it.
And he started sending palletloads of his messages all around
the globe.
And so God can use things thatare being used in a bad way for
good.
So don't be afraid of it, justdouble check it.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I know the one
that I use occasionally has aplace where you can see what
sources.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Oh no, mine has sources too.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, yes, so that's pretty cool then, so you can
really validate, which isawesome.
Well, carl, thank you so muchfor joining us today.
Thank you, ellen.
Well, carl, thank you so muchfor joining us today.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Thank you, Ellen.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Congratulations on your new book, your new
grandbaby.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Exciting things, and, listeners, this is going to be
a wonderful resource for youthat reinforces that we don't
have to keep making excuses orletting sin define our lives.
We can conquer sin, startingright now and today.
So thank you so much forjoining us.
(42:25):
Be sure and grab a copy ofCarl's book Killing Sin.
We will have all the links inour show notes.
We love you all.
Have a blessed day.
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