May 15, 2025 • 34 mins
Spiritual formation isn't about doing more for God, it's about being with him. In this episode, pastor and author Kyle Worley joins Ellen to discuss:
- Navigating distraction in our spiritual lives
- How our habits shape us
- Perfectionism vs. process
This conversation is for anyone who needs a breakthrough in their walk with God! Grab your coffee and cozy up ☕
Scripture references:
- Matthew 22:37
- Genesis 1-3
- Revelation 21-22
- Romans 1:22-25
- Psalm 16:11
- Mark 6:7-13
- Hebrews 10:14
- 1 John 2
Get your copy here: Formed for Fellowship: Becoming What You Behold
Learn more about Kyle: Website │ Instagram │ X
Kyle's Favorites:
CSB Bible │ ESV Bible │ Spiral-Bound Journaling Bible (ESV) │ iBayam Pens │Logos Bible Software │Dwell Audio Bible
Join our community! If you are a Christian woman seeking to know God deeper, study Scriptures, pray with and for others, strengthen your faith, and support other in doing the same, this is the place for you.
Want to study God's Word for yourself? Try our In-Depth Bible Study Academy
Click here to try a free mini-course!
📫 Subscribe to the Coffee and Bible Time newsletter
🤝 To support the work of Coffee and Bible Time, donate here
💗 See what Ellen, Taylor, Ashley, and guests are loving on Amazon
https://coffeeandbibletime.com
Some of the links in this episode may be affiliate links, meaning if you click through and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
Our goal is to help you delightin God's Word and thrive in
Christian living.
Each week, we talk to subjectmatter experts who broaden your
biblical understanding,encourage you in hard times and
provide life-building tips toenhance your Christian walk.
We are so glad you have joinedus.
(00:25):
Welcome back to the Coffee andBible Time podcast.
This is Ellen, your host, andtoday we are asking a question
that we all need to wrestle withwhat is forming you?
Whether we realize it or not,we are all being shaped, whether
that's by our habits, ourdesires, our screens, our fears
(00:49):
and, ultimately, by whatever welove most.
Well, our guest today is pastorand author Kyle Worley, whose
most recent book, formed forFellowship, becoming what you
Behold, explores how spiritualformation is not just about
doing more for God, but aboutbeing with him, seeing him,
(01:10):
knowing him and being changed inthe process.
This book connects the dotsbetween the formative practices
that we talk about, like prayer,bible reading, obedience, and
the God who invites us intorelationship with himself and
with others.
If you've ever found yourselfwondering why the Christian life
looks the way it does, orfeeling stuck in the how, this
(01:34):
conversation is for you, kyle,welcome to the show.
We are so glad that you're here.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Ellen, thanks for having me.
I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Well, I have had such a joy going through your book
on these formative practices andform for discipleship.
You created these as part of acurriculum correct with JT
English and Jen Wilkin.
Tell us a little bit about howthis book fits into these
(02:02):
resources and what, inparticular, you're hoping people
are going to take away fromthis one.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, well, thanks for asking.
Over the last 10 years, jenWilkin and JT English and I have
been working together to justtry to address the crisis of
biblical and theologicalliteracy.
That's why our partnershipexists.
We have a podcast calledKnowing Faith Podcast, where we
do this with one another.
We have just released thesebooks Formed for Fellowship is
(02:29):
one of them as a part ofsomething called the Deep
Discipleship Program, which is ayear-long theological
discipleship curriculum that'spublished through Lifeway so
that people can go through theentire Christian story, explore
the essentials of Christianbelief and learn the basic
practices of Christian formation.
So my book Formed for Fellowshipis really addressing that third
bucket.
What does Christian formationmean?
What does it mean to be formedinto the image of Christ Jesus?
(02:50):
My hope is that as people readit, they would discover told.
These are some of the rhythmsof a Christian life, like prayer
, bible reading, gathering withGod's people for worship,
fasting, evangelism.
But very few of them canarticulate why those things?
(03:14):
Why not any number of otherthings?
Why does God give us thosepractices for the Christian life
?
And so the book is really anexploration of the why behind
the why.
Why read your Bible, why pray,why share the gospel, why gather
with God's people in Christianfellowship?
And then how?
How can you do that in a waythat's simple and sustainable?
(03:36):
So my hope is that people walkaway feeling like you know what
God has so much more for me todiscover in fellowship with him,
and I now have a roadmap forhow to do that in really basic
ways.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
That's so wonderful.
One of the things that reallycaught my attention was just
some of the things that peopledon't think about.
Like you mentioned just lovingGod and the fact that God loved
us first and that being aformative practice in and of
(04:10):
itself.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, Well, I've been a little bit surprised.
Maybe some of your listenerswill have read books about what
are called the spiritualdisciplines.
Spiritual disciplines of theChristian life are often those
things that we talk about arekind of the mechanics, you might
say, of walking with God inyour ordinary days.
I've been surprised how few ofthose books talk about love.
And yet when Jesus is summingup the whole of the law, he says
(04:36):
you know, you could sum up thelaw as love God with all your
heart, soul, mind, strength, andlove your neighbor as yourself.
So it really seems like thefirst formative practice is
receiving and extending God'slove.
And that's kind of the patternfor all of the spiritual
disciplines God gives us,disciplines that are a
reflection of his character, ofhis work in the world.
(04:57):
We read God's word because Godspeaks.
So when we read God's wordwe're listening to the voice of
God, and the reason he commendsand encourages us to preach
God's word and teach God's wordand read God's word and meditate
on it day and night is becauseGod wants to speak with us.
It's not just because it's agreat Christian practice that we
should do, because we can begood Christian boys and girls,
(05:19):
it's because God is speaking andhe wants us to hear, so I just
hope.
I hope that people discoverthat there is a lot to see about
God and his works and hisnature as we walk in the
spiritual practices he's givenus.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Yeah, that really, that really touched me.
Well, let's talk about becomingwhat you behold.
One part of this book thatreally set the tone for me was
when you compared Adam and Eveseeing the forbidden fruit in
Genesis 3 with Revelation 22,where we're told that we will
see the face of God and his namewill be on our foreheads.
(05:57):
And you go on to write abouthow we become what we behold.
So why is it so easy to focuson the wrong things, and how can
we realign our focus towardsGod?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, well, ever since the fall in the garden,
we're just kind of born brokenbeholders.
Our compass for what's true andgood and lovely is just skewed.
And so, yeah, why is it so hardto give our attention to what
matters most?
Well, because we in the worldare broken.
We got hooks all over our heartand our attention is drawn to a
(06:30):
thousand places but God.
And that's kind of how it wasat the fall in Genesis, chapter
3.
That Adam and Eve they look atthe fruit of the tree, they
desire it, they hear the falsepromises of the deceiver and
they give into it and they turntheir attention away from God
and turn it towards creaturelythings.
That's what Paul says in suchtragic words in Romans 1, right,
they exchanged the worship ofthe immortal God for worship of
(06:52):
creaturely and mortal things andin doing so became foolish.
Their minds just fell, and soyou and I and everyone else
who's lived after them.
I've been born into this worldwith a desire to behold, a
desire to give our attention towhat is true, good and lovely.
But the direction that it goesin is skewed, it's bent, it's
broken, and so there is a realredemption arc in the story of
(07:16):
the Bible with our attention.
You know, you just mentionedthis In Genesis 3, we turn, in
Adam and Eve, our attention awayfrom God and to lesser things.
But in the new heavens and thenew earth, in the new world,
remade and reestablished, ourattention is redirected towards
the very face of God, and thisis the goal.
This is something that has beenneglected, specifically in
(07:37):
Protestant circles, for a longtime.
The goal really is to beholdGod like what old theologians
called the beatific vision, theblessed vision.
That's really the goal of thiswhole thing is to see God, to
enjoy God, to delight in God.
That's why we were created andthat's why heaven will come to
earth one day is so that we canlive our whole lives in God's
(07:58):
presence.
And so if that's the grounds ofour creation and then that's
the goal of our creation, thencertainly it's got to shape the
pathway's the grounds of ourcreation and then that's the
goal of our creation, thencertainly it's got to shape the
pathway between the grounds andthe goal, between Genesis 1 and
2 and Revelation 21 and 22.
And so the practices that Godgives us are practices so that
we can turn our attention backto God again and again and again
(08:20):
, certainly in imperfect ways,but hopefully in faithful ways
that grow our delight infellowship with God, just being
with him.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yes, and I love your book is so well written.
I know that you really set thestage for all of that in the
opening of this and it reallydoes make you feel like I want
to be a part of that.
I want to be in part of that.
I want to um be in closerfellowship with God.
What are some of the commondistractions that pull our focus
(08:52):
away and how do we reclaim thatfocus?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Well, we're on a distraction right now, aren't we
?
I'm sure most people arelistening to this on a phone or
on their computer.
Certainly, our devices are agreat distraction, but sometimes
didn't have digitaldistractions.
Now we probably, three or 400years ago, would be dealing with
(09:24):
more, just matter of fact,earthly distractions, just kind
of the hustle and bustle ofsurvival.
Distractions abound in every age.
They're not culturally situatedIn our current moment.
A lot of our distractions aredigital.
A lot of them are other luxurydistractions that occupy our
time and attention.
But there are also just theever-present distractions of
(09:46):
shame, fear, anxiety, insecurity, these things that really ask
us to look at ourselves morethan we look at God.
I mean, that's what thosethings do.
The quintessential distractionat the root of all of them is to
take a thousand looks atyourself and one look at Christ.
The quintessential distractionat the root of all of them is to
take a thousand looks atyourself and one look at Christ.
The old preacher Robert MurrayMcShane said for every one look
at yourself, take 10 looks uponChrist.
(10:08):
But the perpetual distractionfor all of us is to look more
upon ourselves than we do uponthe Lord.
So that's not culturallyconditioned and you don't need a
mirror or a phone or a laptopor a screen or anything to be
able to do that.
That's been there since thebeginning.
So how do we reorient ourselves?
(10:28):
Well, we try faithfully, humbly, imperfectly, in ordinary ways,
simple ways to look upon God.
This is why we memorizescripture.
Why do we memorize scripture?
Because our words are oftenskewed and they come to us
quickly.
And we memorize scripture sothat God's word can come to us
in the heat of the moment, inthe midst of the mess.
(10:48):
Why do we read God's word?
Because we want to hear whatGod has to say about who we are
in the world, as opposed to justwhat our friends might say or
our social media accounts mightsay or the news feed might say
or the podcast might say, or oursocial media accounts might say
, or the newsfeed might say orthe podcast might say.
So the way that we turn ourattention back to God is through
a prayerful approach to hisword, his people, loving our
(11:10):
neighbors.
I know it seems so simple andI'm sure listeners are like when
is he going to really dropsomething profound that's going
to break open the spiritualdisciplines?
I'm not going to.
I really don't think what weneed is more profound and pithy
statements about what we couldaspirationally do.
I do think we just need moresimple instructions on the very
ordinary things God asks andinvites us to do.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, absolutely so let's talk about how to grow.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
We've learned about the importance of turning our
attention to Christ, and nowlet's take a little deeper dive
into what looks like practicallyfor, especially for someone who
might be feeling stuck in theirspiritual growth right now.
What are some practical stepsthat someone can take to
experience a breakthrough andactually grow?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, my biggest encouragement when people tell
me that they're stalled out.
I got three pieces here.
One if you've been reading theBible, like if you've been
reading it in small chunks,that's great.
I'm encouraged.
I hope that you'll continue todo that in some form or fashion.
But if you've been reading itand you feel like you're stalled
out, try listening to the Bible.
Just try listening to the Bible.
(12:22):
There are so many apps to dothis and there's so many you
don't have to pay for.
Or if you don't want to do that, go to YouTube.
Or if you live with a roommateor you live with a spouse and
both of you are pursuing theLord together, maybe use that
morning time and go.
Hey, instead of us readingindividually, we're going to
take turns reading this out loudfor each other.
So this could be something youdo on a device, it could be
(12:44):
something you do in community.
But if you've just been readingthe Bible just in your head,
get to a place where you'rehearing the Bible, whether
that's you reading it out loud,you having some sort of app read
it out loud, you having anotherperson read it out loud.
The Bible is a book that'smeant to be read, and the
original audience for almost theentirety of scripture would
have heard the words of theBible, predominantly audio or
(13:07):
audible.
First Read the Bible.
That's a great way to breakthrough a little bit of that fog
.
Another really simple way to dothis is fasting prayer, and I
say simple in terms of it costsyou nothing.
It's not simple in terms ofactually doing it because it
requires some sacrifice.
But I often just will tellbelievers when was the last time
that you took time to step awayfor appropriate fasting prayer?
(13:29):
And I talk about this in thebook.
Jesus himself, when theapostles return at one point,
says, hey, there are some ofthis work that will only happen
by way of fasting and prayer.
So Jesus himself tells you like, hey, there are some things,
some stalls, some spiritualwalls that you might hit, that
really might only be overcome bymeans of fasting prayer.
So I would just I encouragebelievers, especially if they're
(13:51):
dealing with besetting sin,habitual sin, just a pattern of
sin in their life.
I'll often ask them hey, beforeyou start paying for anything,
before you try to build a wholesystem, have you just taken a
day to just go be with the Lordand pray and fast and ask for
his mercy.
That's something God isinviting you to do.
So that's the second thing.
Then I think the third thing isbeginning to share the gospel.
(14:14):
The spiritual practices of theChristian life are tied to
gospel proclamation and for manyChristians evangelism is the
last thing they want to do.
And I think many Christiansstall out in their growth and
fellowship with God because theydon't join in the sufferings of
bearing witness to Christ.
And I think that's a part,there's a reason why we see a
vigor and a zeal and a vitalityin the New Testament's witness
(14:36):
about the presence of God,because once you begin to share
the gospel of Christ with thosewho are resistant to it, you
will begin to experiencedependency on the spirit that I
don't think you'll experience inany other time.
So my encouragement is often,if you believe that your private
spirituality has stalled out,it may be because you need to
involve a more communal andcorporate dimension to it and
(14:57):
you need to join God on thefront lines of his mission in
your neighborhood or in thenations, in whatever way you can
.
And I think that if you stepinto those two very
straightforward, very simple I'mnot saying they're not
sacrificial, just that they'renot financially costly Anybody
can do it.
If you step into those twothings very rarely do I find
people will remain in thatstagnant position.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
That's such great advice and something that you
really have to be intentionalabout right, because no one's
going to come and do it for you.
It's something that you need tomake time for and trust that
God is going to work throughthat process.
Well, I'd like to just talk alittle bit about experiencing
(15:39):
deeper connections with God.
To just talk a little bit aboutexperiencing deeper connections
with God, because I think therealso are people listening that
maybe are very faithful to theirformation practices and are
still yearning for a deeperconnection.
How would you suggest they goabout doing that?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah, you know what You're going to want more depth,
this side of heaven, for theentire time you're here.
I got to say this I think I walkin greater intimacy with the
Lord today than I did 10 yearsago and I've never been more
aware of just how far I am fromhim.
This is the kind of paradox ofpersonal piety.
Piety is the old word that thePuritans and church fathers use
(16:18):
for holiness and spiritualgrowth.
I like it.
I like the word for reasons Iget to in the book, but the more
you grow in personal holiness,the greater your awareness of
God's holiness will be.
The greater your awareness ofGod's holiness will be, the more
that you will feel far from him.
This is something that I don'tthink we talk about enough as
(16:39):
maturing Christians is that thedeeper you go into intimacy with
the Lord, the greater yourawareness will be that he is God
and you are not.
This is entirely appropriate.
When maturing Christians tellme they're walking in ordinary
faithfulness and they feel somedisconnect with God, I'll often
(17:01):
tell them that's a sign ofhealth.
It's a sign of health.
We don't say this enough.
It's not that it's a sign ofhealth for you to be far from
God.
It is a sign of health for youto increasingly realize that God
is great and holy and you and Iare not.
That's a sign of health.
That's a sign of maturity.
And so it continues to move usinto greater dependency and
(17:21):
desperation.
Where we're coming before theLord and we're going God, I
don't have anything to offer you, and yet you're in your
presence, is where there isfullness of joy.
So grant me access, lord, bemerciful.
It's a reliance on grace.
I think we think about maturityas increasing independence from
God and we think the spiritualdisciplines will put us on a
road.
(17:42):
If we walk faithfully in theseformative practices or spiritual
disciplines, we willincreasingly grow independent.
This is not how the Bible talksabout spiritual maturity not as
one of increasing independence,but one of increasing
dependence, increasingfellowship.
It takes us lower and slowerover time.
Oftentimes Christians, newChristians, experience such zeal
(18:05):
and their initial spiritualgrowth and, holiness right,
we've all had that experiencewhere you're like, wow,
everything is so rich andtextured and wonderful and
there's a beauty to that.
But there is a seasonality toit as well, the deeper that we
go in our maturity to Christ.
It doesn't become stagnant, butit does.
Our awareness of the differencebetween us and God grows and it
(18:26):
does increase our felt sense ofdependency.
That it's not depth, is noteasy, it is sacrificial, it is
slow, it is low and it'stypically accompanied by great
weakness and occasionally bygreat suffering.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yes, and you know what?
That's exactly what I was goingto say was.
I know you touched on it verybriefly and you said this book
is not about suffering, but youalso mentioned that suffering is
a point in which that we dofeel so close to.
God, and is that what you'veexperienced as well, kyle?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yes, I mean, I talk about this in the book you
really can't instruct sufferingas like a hey, go out and suffer
so that you can grow close tothe Lord.
And, truthfully, the Bibledoesn't talk about suffering
that way.
It talks about it as somethingthat's inevitable, but it
doesn't talk about somethingthat is commendable.
It's not like hey, ellen Kyle,if you want to grow deeper with
(19:23):
the Lord, go put yourself intothe crucible of suffering.
It just presumes that we'regoing to find ourselves there
within the course of our lives,and this is true for everyone,
and it's certainly been true inmy life that the Lord has used
seasons of suffering to inclinemy ear to listen more
effectively and more desperately.
(19:43):
Now, in those moments ofsuffering, I am as tempted as
you could be to incline my earto lesser things, the things
that promise false comfort.
But if, in those seasons oftrial and affliction and
suffering, if we will continueto lean our ear and our
listening to the voice of theLord, in whatever meager ways we
can muster and often they'revery meager, they're very frail,
(20:07):
they're very weak the Lordgrows us in those seasons in a
way that is disproportionate toour investment.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
At least that's been the case for me.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yes, I completely agree.
Well, we've talked a lot aboutthe individual aspect.
What role does community playin spiritual growth and what are
the specific ways thatbelievers could build deeper and
more lasting Christianfellowship?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yes, thank you for asking.
This is my soapbox.
We have arrived at my soapbox,which is that and this isn't
only a problem for us here inAmerica.
It is uniquely a problem for ushere in America because of how
hyper individualistic ourculture is.
But when you look at spiritualgrowth in the New Testament, it
is almost always communicated ashappening within the context of
(21:01):
community, specifically thecommunity of a local church.
The way that we walk with theLord can be personal, but it
cannot be private.
It is meant to be done publicly, within the corporate gathering
of God's people in a localchurch.
I'll tell you, I really dothink that if you try to walk in
(21:22):
the Christian life as kind ofan isolated individual, not only
do I think you will notexperience the formation that
God has for you, the change andtransformation that God has for
you.
I think it'll be malformativefor you.
I think it could do more harmthan good.
Isolated spirituality is a verydeceptive danger.
It's a very deceptive danger.
(21:42):
It's a very deceptive danger,and this has been true in the
history of the church, and so myencouragement would be that the
local church is the place whereyou gather every week to
practice what you're going to dopersonally outside of the
gathering the rest of the week.
It starts the week.
It's a demonstration.
So we read God's word, we hearGod's word, we sing to one
(22:04):
another, we practice Christianfellowship.
Maybe your church receives theLord's Supper weekly or
quarterly or whatever.
You see the story of yoursalvation played out again with
baptism and all of thesepictures, all of these stories,
all these practices they'regospel show and tells that
invite us into personallywalking out what we have now
(22:26):
corporately practiced together.
So my strongest encouragementwould be to, if you are
listening to this and you'retrying to follow the Lord and
you're either trying to do it onyour own or trying to do it
outside the context of a localchurch, before you would pick up
my book, before you would readmy book, anything like that,
(22:48):
before you'd listen to any otherpodcast episodes that Coffee
and Bible Time do or thepodcasts that I run, I would
really encourage you to embedyourself, root yourself in the
life of a local church.
I think that's where health andvitality and the spiritual
practices is often going toemerge.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I don't think I would be or know as much as I do now,
and I'm not claiming to know alot, but I'm just saying I have
grown more in my Christian walkby being a part of a couple
different communities within ourchurch, one being a mom's group
community and doing Biblestudies every year together with
them and just being infellowship.
(23:26):
And then just our couple smallgroup that we've met with and
just do life together andsupport one another.
And just seeing how otherpeople are doing their walks has
been incredibly encouraging,great.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I love that.
Yeah, that's same for me.
Same for me, and I think thespiritual practices can be
practiced in a healthy way,maybe even a healthier way when
they're practiced within thecontext of Christian community,
whether it's prayer or Biblereading or evangelism.
You think about, like, when Godsends out his followers.
He sends them out in groups oftwo to go out and practice
(24:02):
mission, to go out and do thework of an evangelist.
He sends them out in communitywith one another.
He tells them they're going toknow you by the love that you
have for one another.
He teaches them in community,they listen in community, they
eat together in community, theytravel in community.
This is the proper context forour walk with the Lord and
fellowship with God.
Because the book is called Formfor Fellowship, because the
(24:24):
whole goal of spiritualformation is greater fellowship
with God and greater fellowshipwith God's people.
Love God, love others, enjoytheir love, enjoy God's love.
This is why we exist why weexist.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
I was thinking about what just came to my mind was
about just even like breakingbread together, having a meal
together.
I feel like it's just kind oflike you know, from just
discussing sermon notes orsomething like that to kind of
just letting your shoulders downand being and having a meal
together, I think is just so, soincredibly nourishing to the
soul too, not just for the food.
Well, kyle, one thing that youwrite about is the tension we as
(25:10):
believers have between beingperfect in Christ and still
being in the process offormation.
How would you encourageChristians to navigate that
balance?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, you know.
Hebrews 10, 14, the writer ofHebrews says for we have been
perfected for all time, or forChrist is perfected by one
offering for all time those whoare being sanctified.
That tension, perfected for alltime being sanctified, that's
the Christian life, that's ourunion with Christ and our
(25:45):
communion with God is how I talkabout it in the book I wrote
before this Home with God thatin Christ Jesus, you and I are
perfect for good forever.
Right now, because we are inthe perfect one and yet
practically that's still beingworked out.
This is the difference betweenour justification, where we are
declared righteous by God forgood forever in Jesus, and our
sanctification, where we arebeing made into what God has
(26:05):
already said.
We are in Jesus and thistension is really the adventure
of the Christian life.
This is the adventure ofabiding in Christ, is beginning
to become who God has alreadysaid we already are.
That's the journey of Christianformation, is increasingly
becoming like Christ, whom youare already identified with by
(26:30):
God's grace.
This is a real beauty infreedom.
You think about how Johninstructs the church in 1 John 2
.
I love this because he capturesthis truth and this tension.
He's writing to them and hesays my little children, I'm
writing these things to you sothat you may not sin.
But if you do sin, you have anadvocate with the Father, the
Lord Jesus Christ.
(26:50):
John's saying it's better foryou to not sin, it's better for
you to walk in holiness andobedience.
This is what is good for theChristian.
But if you do sin, you have anadvocate with the Father, who is
the Lord Jesus Christ, to whomGod isn't waiting to make up his
mind about his people.
He's already declared usbeloved for good forever.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah, and that hope that we have is, I think,
crucial to day-to-day livinghere on this earth.
Kyle, tell us, for people whowant to just go deeper into what
we've just scratched thesurface on here, how can people
find out more information aboutyou and get a copy of Formed for
(27:48):
Fellowship?
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, so you can get Formed for Fellowship wherever
you get your books.
So it's on Amazon, it's atLifeway, barnes, noble, your
local bookstore, it's everywhere.
It's on Audible, it's on Kindle.
So Formed for Fellowship is youwant to get it?
In terms of finding me, you cango to kyleworleynet or you can
find me on social media at KyleWorley, on Instagram and X.
(28:09):
That's where I'm at.
So any of those places are howyou can follow along the journey
.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Fantastic, and we will make sure we include all
those links in our show notes.
I have just a few questionsthat I have to ask you as being
a guest here.
The first one is what Bible isyour go-to Bible and which
translation is it?
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Great question.
I love that you ask thesequestions at the end of these
episodes.
I love listening to otherpeople's answers on these
questions.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yes, me too Okay.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
So it depends for Bible translation.
I have two translations I usepretty regularly.
I use the ESV that's what Ipreach from at the local church
where I pastor and I use the CSB.
I got to tell you I prefer theCSB.
For most of the kind ofepistolary formats and most of
reading through the letters inthe New Testament, I prefer the
CSB.
I also prefer the CSB for mostof the Old Testament narrative.
(29:02):
I prefer the ESV for wisdomliterature and anything in
poetry or prophecy.
So I'm a little bit of a mutt.
I preach from the ESV.
My personal reading and studyis really ESV and CSB, just
depending on what genre I'mlooking at Right Right.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Oh my gosh, I love that.
That's really awesome.
Okay, do you have any favoriteBible journaling supplies?
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yes, yes, I do.
I actually I put some over herefor you just because I knew you
would ask.
This is not an ad, but I dolove these ESV journaling spiral
bound because they can lay flatand they have like a ton of
note space on them.
So I got to tell you I startedusing these and it doesn't have
to be this.
(29:42):
I think most of the Bibletranslations now have these
spiral bound For Bible study.
I love having spiral bound so Ican lay flat and I can take a
bunch of notes when I'm doing myBible study.
So I love using spiral boundbooks of the Bible, or this is
like the Pentateuch, so it's thefirst five books of the Old
Testament spiral bound.
But I love using spiral boundfor Bible study and journaling.
(30:05):
For pens, I have found I reallyuse these iBiom.
They're called fineliner pens.
They just don't bleed through.
So this is like my favorite.
It's called iBiom B-A-Y-A-M,also not an ad.
I favorite it's called I BuyumB-A-Y-A-M, also not an ad.
I'm not like sponsored by thesepeople, but they're great pins
(30:28):
for Bible study.
So for Bible journaling, biblestudy, I'm using Spiral Bound
mostly and then I use those pinsso that they don't bleed
through.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, oh, my goodness .
Okay, that's awesome.
We will make sure we includesome links for those.
And then, lastly, what is yourfavorite app or website for
Bible study tools?
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Great questions.
Yeah, so the two that I usepredominantly.
I am a big Logos user.
I use Logos for Bible study.
So if it's like deep, like ifI'm trying to like really do
Bible study, like I'm talkinglike get into it a little bit
word studies, cross references,anything like that kind of
deeper Bible study, I call itwell-digging Bible study.
(31:06):
I would say Logos is what I usefor that.
And then, if it's Bible intake,I use a Bible app called Dwell
and they have great audio forthe Bible and Bible readers, a
range of options, a range oftranslation.
So if it's just Bible intake, Iuse Dwell.
If it's like Bible study, I useLogos.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
All right, both of those suggestions are awesome.
We will include links in theshow notes for Logos, for sure,
because I think we have anaffiliate with them which I
think our listeners can get aspecial deal on that.
And actually they've done a lotof changes to Lagos to make it
wonderful for people who arejust starting to get into Bible
(31:46):
study to be able to use it alittle bit more easily and much
less expensively.
So that's really awesome.
And Dwell is fantastic too.
All right, well, kyle, it'sbeen such a pleasure having you
here.
Thank you so much for justgiving some fresh new life to
people as we're listening to theformation practices and the
(32:07):
importance of, and just ouroverall desire to connect with
God.
Thank you for helping us dothat.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Hey, thanks for having me.
It was an honor to be here.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
And to our listeners.
I just want to encourage youall to check out our show notes,
pick up a copy of Kyle's book.
I'm telling you, it's so great.
He also has a great sense ofhumor and a lot of really fun
stories in there as well, inaddition to all of the amazing
tools and information.
So check out his book, and wejust thank you for listening to
(32:36):
the podcast.
God bless you and have awonderful day.
At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
Our goal is to help you delightin God's Word and thrive in
Christian living.
Each week, we talk to subjectmatter experts who broaden your
biblical understanding,encourage you in hard times and
provide life-building tips toenhance your Christian walk.
We are so glad you have joinedus.
(00:25):
Welcome back to the Coffee andBible Time podcast.
This is Ellen, your host, andtoday we are asking a question
that we all need to wrestle withwhat is forming you?
Whether we realize it or not,we are all being shaped, whether
that's by our habits, ourdesires, our screens, our fears
(00:49):
and, ultimately, by whatever welove most.
Well, our guest today is pastorand author Kyle Worley, whose
most recent book, formed forFellowship, becoming what you
Behold, explores how spiritualformation is not just about
doing more for God, but aboutbeing with him, seeing him,
(01:10):
knowing him and being changed inthe process.
This book connects the dotsbetween the formative practices
that we talk about, like prayer,bible reading, obedience, and
the God who invites us intorelationship with himself and
with others.
If you've ever found yourselfwondering why the Christian life
looks the way it does, orfeeling stuck in the how, this
(01:34):
conversation is for you, kyle,welcome to the show.
We are so glad that you're here.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Ellen, thanks for having me.
I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Well, I have had such a joy going through your book
on these formative practices andform for discipleship.
You created these as part of acurriculum correct with JT
English and Jen Wilkin.
Tell us a little bit about howthis book fits into these
(02:02):
resources and what, inparticular, you're hoping people
are going to take away fromthis one.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, well, thanks for asking.
Over the last 10 years, jenWilkin and JT English and I have
been working together to justtry to address the crisis of
biblical and theologicalliteracy.
That's why our partnershipexists.
We have a podcast calledKnowing Faith Podcast, where we
do this with one another.
We have just released thesebooks Formed for Fellowship is
(02:29):
one of them as a part ofsomething called the Deep
Discipleship Program, which is ayear-long theological
discipleship curriculum that'spublished through Lifeway so
that people can go through theentire Christian story, explore
the essentials of Christianbelief and learn the basic
practices of Christian formation.
So my book Formed for Fellowshipis really addressing that third
bucket.
What does Christian formationmean?
What does it mean to be formedinto the image of Christ Jesus?
(02:50):
My hope is that as people readit, they would discover told.
These are some of the rhythmsof a Christian life, like prayer
, bible reading, gathering withGod's people for worship,
fasting, evangelism.
But very few of them canarticulate why those things?
(03:14):
Why not any number of otherthings?
Why does God give us thosepractices for the Christian life
?
And so the book is really anexploration of the why behind
the why.
Why read your Bible, why pray,why share the gospel, why gather
with God's people in Christianfellowship?
And then how?
How can you do that in a waythat's simple and sustainable?
(03:36):
So my hope is that people walkaway feeling like you know what
God has so much more for me todiscover in fellowship with him,
and I now have a roadmap forhow to do that in really basic
ways.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
That's so wonderful.
One of the things that reallycaught my attention was just
some of the things that peopledon't think about.
Like you mentioned just lovingGod and the fact that God loved
us first and that being aformative practice in and of
(04:10):
itself.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, Well, I've been a little bit surprised.
Maybe some of your listenerswill have read books about what
are called the spiritualdisciplines.
Spiritual disciplines of theChristian life are often those
things that we talk about arekind of the mechanics, you might
say, of walking with God inyour ordinary days.
I've been surprised how few ofthose books talk about love.
And yet when Jesus is summingup the whole of the law, he says
(04:36):
you know, you could sum up thelaw as love God with all your
heart, soul, mind, strength, andlove your neighbor as yourself.
So it really seems like thefirst formative practice is
receiving and extending God'slove.
And that's kind of the patternfor all of the spiritual
disciplines God gives us,disciplines that are a
reflection of his character, ofhis work in the world.
(04:57):
We read God's word because Godspeaks.
So when we read God's wordwe're listening to the voice of
God, and the reason he commendsand encourages us to preach
God's word and teach God's wordand read God's word and meditate
on it day and night is becauseGod wants to speak with us.
It's not just because it's agreat Christian practice that we
should do, because we can begood Christian boys and girls,
(05:19):
it's because God is speaking andhe wants us to hear, so I just
hope.
I hope that people discoverthat there is a lot to see about
God and his works and hisnature as we walk in the
spiritual practices he's givenus.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Yeah, that really, that really touched me.
Well, let's talk about becomingwhat you behold.
One part of this book thatreally set the tone for me was
when you compared Adam and Eveseeing the forbidden fruit in
Genesis 3 with Revelation 22,where we're told that we will
see the face of God and his namewill be on our foreheads.
(05:57):
And you go on to write abouthow we become what we behold.
So why is it so easy to focuson the wrong things, and how can
we realign our focus towardsGod?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, well, ever since the fall in the garden,
we're just kind of born brokenbeholders.
Our compass for what's true andgood and lovely is just skewed.
And so, yeah, why is it so hardto give our attention to what
matters most?
Well, because we in the worldare broken.
We got hooks all over our heartand our attention is drawn to a
(06:30):
thousand places but God.
And that's kind of how it wasat the fall in Genesis, chapter
3.
That Adam and Eve they look atthe fruit of the tree, they
desire it, they hear the falsepromises of the deceiver and
they give into it and they turntheir attention away from God
and turn it towards creaturelythings.
That's what Paul says in suchtragic words in Romans 1, right,
they exchanged the worship ofthe immortal God for worship of
(06:52):
creaturely and mortal things andin doing so became foolish.
Their minds just fell, and soyou and I and everyone else
who's lived after them.
I've been born into this worldwith a desire to behold, a
desire to give our attention towhat is true, good and lovely.
But the direction that it goesin is skewed, it's bent, it's
broken, and so there is a realredemption arc in the story of
(07:16):
the Bible with our attention.
You know, you just mentionedthis In Genesis 3, we turn, in
Adam and Eve, our attention awayfrom God and to lesser things.
But in the new heavens and thenew earth, in the new world,
remade and reestablished, ourattention is redirected towards
the very face of God, and thisis the goal.
This is something that has beenneglected, specifically in
(07:37):
Protestant circles, for a longtime.
The goal really is to beholdGod like what old theologians
called the beatific vision, theblessed vision.
That's really the goal of thiswhole thing is to see God, to
enjoy God, to delight in God.
That's why we were created andthat's why heaven will come to
earth one day is so that we canlive our whole lives in God's
(07:58):
presence.
And so if that's the grounds ofour creation and then that's
the goal of our creation, thencertainly it's got to shape the
pathway's the grounds of ourcreation and then that's the
goal of our creation, thencertainly it's got to shape the
pathway between the grounds andthe goal, between Genesis 1 and
2 and Revelation 21 and 22.
And so the practices that Godgives us are practices so that
we can turn our attention backto God again and again and again
(08:20):
, certainly in imperfect ways,but hopefully in faithful ways
that grow our delight infellowship with God, just being
with him.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yes, and I love your book is so well written.
I know that you really set thestage for all of that in the
opening of this and it reallydoes make you feel like I want
to be a part of that.
I want to be in part of that.
I want to um be in closerfellowship with God.
What are some of the commondistractions that pull our focus
(08:52):
away and how do we reclaim thatfocus?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Well, we're on a distraction right now, aren't we
?
I'm sure most people arelistening to this on a phone or
on their computer.
Certainly, our devices are agreat distraction, but sometimes
didn't have digitaldistractions.
Now we probably, three or 400years ago, would be dealing with
(09:24):
more, just matter of fact,earthly distractions, just kind
of the hustle and bustle ofsurvival.
Distractions abound in every age.
They're not culturally situatedIn our current moment.
A lot of our distractions aredigital.
A lot of them are other luxurydistractions that occupy our
time and attention.
But there are also just theever-present distractions of
(09:46):
shame, fear, anxiety, insecurity, these things that really ask
us to look at ourselves morethan we look at God.
I mean, that's what thosethings do.
The quintessential distractionat the root of all of them is to
take a thousand looks atyourself and one look at Christ.
The quintessential distractionat the root of all of them is to
take a thousand looks atyourself and one look at Christ.
The old preacher Robert MurrayMcShane said for every one look
at yourself, take 10 looks uponChrist.
(10:08):
But the perpetual distractionfor all of us is to look more
upon ourselves than we do uponthe Lord.
So that's not culturallyconditioned and you don't need a
mirror or a phone or a laptopor a screen or anything to be
able to do that.
That's been there since thebeginning.
So how do we reorient ourselves?
(10:28):
Well, we try faithfully, humbly, imperfectly, in ordinary ways,
simple ways to look upon God.
This is why we memorizescripture.
Why do we memorize scripture?
Because our words are oftenskewed and they come to us
quickly.
And we memorize scripture sothat God's word can come to us
in the heat of the moment, inthe midst of the mess.
(10:48):
Why do we read God's word?
Because we want to hear whatGod has to say about who we are
in the world, as opposed to justwhat our friends might say or
our social media accounts mightsay or the news feed might say
or the podcast might say, or oursocial media accounts might say
, or the newsfeed might say orthe podcast might say.
So the way that we turn ourattention back to God is through
a prayerful approach to hisword, his people, loving our
(11:10):
neighbors.
I know it seems so simple andI'm sure listeners are like when
is he going to really dropsomething profound that's going
to break open the spiritualdisciplines?
I'm not going to.
I really don't think what weneed is more profound and pithy
statements about what we couldaspirationally do.
I do think we just need moresimple instructions on the very
ordinary things God asks andinvites us to do.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, absolutely so let's talk about how to grow.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
We've learned about the importance of turning our
attention to Christ, and nowlet's take a little deeper dive
into what looks like practicallyfor, especially for someone who
might be feeling stuck in theirspiritual growth right now.
What are some practical stepsthat someone can take to
experience a breakthrough andactually grow?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, my biggest encouragement when people tell
me that they're stalled out.
I got three pieces here.
One if you've been reading theBible, like if you've been
reading it in small chunks,that's great.
I'm encouraged.
I hope that you'll continue todo that in some form or fashion.
But if you've been reading itand you feel like you're stalled
out, try listening to the Bible.
Just try listening to the Bible.
(12:22):
There are so many apps to dothis and there's so many you
don't have to pay for.
Or if you don't want to do that, go to YouTube.
Or if you live with a roommateor you live with a spouse and
both of you are pursuing theLord together, maybe use that
morning time and go.
Hey, instead of us readingindividually, we're going to
take turns reading this out loudfor each other.
So this could be something youdo on a device, it could be
(12:44):
something you do in community.
But if you've just been readingthe Bible just in your head,
get to a place where you'rehearing the Bible, whether
that's you reading it out loud,you having some sort of app read
it out loud, you having anotherperson read it out loud.
The Bible is a book that'smeant to be read, and the
original audience for almost theentirety of scripture would
have heard the words of theBible, predominantly audio or
(13:07):
audible.
First Read the Bible.
That's a great way to breakthrough a little bit of that fog
.
Another really simple way to dothis is fasting prayer, and I
say simple in terms of it costsyou nothing.
It's not simple in terms ofactually doing it because it
requires some sacrifice.
But I often just will tellbelievers when was the last time
that you took time to step awayfor appropriate fasting prayer?
(13:29):
And I talk about this in thebook.
Jesus himself, when theapostles return at one point,
says, hey, there are some ofthis work that will only happen
by way of fasting and prayer.
So Jesus himself tells you like, hey, there are some things,
some stalls, some spiritualwalls that you might hit, that
really might only be overcome bymeans of fasting prayer.
So I would just I encouragebelievers, especially if they're
(13:51):
dealing with besetting sin,habitual sin, just a pattern of
sin in their life.
I'll often ask them hey, beforeyou start paying for anything,
before you try to build a wholesystem, have you just taken a
day to just go be with the Lordand pray and fast and ask for
his mercy.
That's something God isinviting you to do.
So that's the second thing.
Then I think the third thing isbeginning to share the gospel.
(14:14):
The spiritual practices of theChristian life are tied to
gospel proclamation and for manyChristians evangelism is the
last thing they want to do.
And I think many Christiansstall out in their growth and
fellowship with God because theydon't join in the sufferings of
bearing witness to Christ.
And I think that's a part,there's a reason why we see a
vigor and a zeal and a vitalityin the New Testament's witness
(14:36):
about the presence of God,because once you begin to share
the gospel of Christ with thosewho are resistant to it, you
will begin to experiencedependency on the spirit that I
don't think you'll experience inany other time.
So my encouragement is often,if you believe that your private
spirituality has stalled out,it may be because you need to
involve a more communal andcorporate dimension to it and
(14:57):
you need to join God on thefront lines of his mission in
your neighborhood or in thenations, in whatever way you can
.
And I think that if you stepinto those two very
straightforward, very simple I'mnot saying they're not
sacrificial, just that they'renot financially costly Anybody
can do it.
If you step into those twothings very rarely do I find
people will remain in thatstagnant position.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
That's such great advice and something that you
really have to be intentionalabout right, because no one's
going to come and do it for you.
It's something that you need tomake time for and trust that
God is going to work throughthat process.
Well, I'd like to just talk alittle bit about experiencing
(15:39):
deeper connections with God.
To just talk a little bit aboutexperiencing deeper connections
with God, because I think therealso are people listening that
maybe are very faithful to theirformation practices and are
still yearning for a deeperconnection.
How would you suggest they goabout doing that?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah, you know what You're going to want more depth,
this side of heaven, for theentire time you're here.
I got to say this I think I walkin greater intimacy with the
Lord today than I did 10 yearsago and I've never been more
aware of just how far I am fromhim.
This is the kind of paradox ofpersonal piety.
Piety is the old word that thePuritans and church fathers use
(16:18):
for holiness and spiritualgrowth.
I like it.
I like the word for reasons Iget to in the book, but the more
you grow in personal holiness,the greater your awareness of
God's holiness will be.
The greater your awareness ofGod's holiness will be, the more
that you will feel far from him.
This is something that I don'tthink we talk about enough as
(16:39):
maturing Christians is that thedeeper you go into intimacy with
the Lord, the greater yourawareness will be that he is God
and you are not.
This is entirely appropriate.
When maturing Christians tellme they're walking in ordinary
faithfulness and they feel somedisconnect with God, I'll often
(17:01):
tell them that's a sign ofhealth.
It's a sign of health.
We don't say this enough.
It's not that it's a sign ofhealth for you to be far from
God.
It is a sign of health for youto increasingly realize that God
is great and holy and you and Iare not.
That's a sign of health.
That's a sign of maturity.
And so it continues to move usinto greater dependency and
(17:21):
desperation.
Where we're coming before theLord and we're going God, I
don't have anything to offer you, and yet you're in your
presence, is where there isfullness of joy.
So grant me access, lord, bemerciful.
It's a reliance on grace.
I think we think about maturityas increasing independence from
God and we think the spiritualdisciplines will put us on a
road.
(17:42):
If we walk faithfully in theseformative practices or spiritual
disciplines, we willincreasingly grow independent.
This is not how the Bible talksabout spiritual maturity not as
one of increasing independence,but one of increasing
dependence, increasingfellowship.
It takes us lower and slowerover time.
Oftentimes Christians, newChristians, experience such zeal
(18:05):
and their initial spiritualgrowth and, holiness right,
we've all had that experiencewhere you're like, wow,
everything is so rich andtextured and wonderful and
there's a beauty to that.
But there is a seasonality toit as well, the deeper that we
go in our maturity to Christ.
It doesn't become stagnant, butit does.
Our awareness of the differencebetween us and God grows and it
(18:26):
does increase our felt sense ofdependency.
That it's not depth, is noteasy, it is sacrificial, it is
slow, it is low and it'stypically accompanied by great
weakness and occasionally bygreat suffering.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yes, and you know what?
That's exactly what I was goingto say was.
I know you touched on it verybriefly and you said this book
is not about suffering, but youalso mentioned that suffering is
a point in which that we dofeel so close to.
God, and is that what you'veexperienced as well, kyle?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yes, I mean, I talk about this in the book you
really can't instruct sufferingas like a hey, go out and suffer
so that you can grow close tothe Lord.
And, truthfully, the Bibledoesn't talk about suffering
that way.
It talks about it as somethingthat's inevitable, but it
doesn't talk about somethingthat is commendable.
It's not like hey, ellen Kyle,if you want to grow deeper with
(19:23):
the Lord, go put yourself intothe crucible of suffering.
It just presumes that we'regoing to find ourselves there
within the course of our lives,and this is true for everyone,
and it's certainly been true inmy life that the Lord has used
seasons of suffering to inclinemy ear to listen more
effectively and more desperately.
(19:43):
Now, in those moments ofsuffering, I am as tempted as
you could be to incline my earto lesser things, the things
that promise false comfort.
But if, in those seasons oftrial and affliction and
suffering, if we will continueto lean our ear and our
listening to the voice of theLord, in whatever meager ways we
can muster and often they'revery meager, they're very frail,
(20:07):
they're very weak the Lordgrows us in those seasons in a
way that is disproportionate toour investment.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
At least that's been the case for me.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yes, I completely agree.
Well, we've talked a lot aboutthe individual aspect.
What role does community playin spiritual growth and what are
the specific ways thatbelievers could build deeper and
more lasting Christianfellowship?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yes, thank you for asking.
This is my soapbox.
We have arrived at my soapbox,which is that and this isn't
only a problem for us here inAmerica.
It is uniquely a problem for ushere in America because of how
hyper individualistic ourculture is.
But when you look at spiritualgrowth in the New Testament, it
is almost always communicated ashappening within the context of
(21:01):
community, specifically thecommunity of a local church.
The way that we walk with theLord can be personal, but it
cannot be private.
It is meant to be done publicly, within the corporate gathering
of God's people in a localchurch.
I'll tell you, I really dothink that if you try to walk in
(21:22):
the Christian life as kind ofan isolated individual, not only
do I think you will notexperience the formation that
God has for you, the change andtransformation that God has for
you.
I think it'll be malformativefor you.
I think it could do more harmthan good.
Isolated spirituality is a verydeceptive danger.
It's a very deceptive danger.
(21:42):
It's a very deceptive danger,and this has been true in the
history of the church, and so myencouragement would be that the
local church is the place whereyou gather every week to
practice what you're going to dopersonally outside of the
gathering the rest of the week.
It starts the week.
It's a demonstration.
So we read God's word, we hearGod's word, we sing to one
(22:04):
another, we practice Christianfellowship.
Maybe your church receives theLord's Supper weekly or
quarterly or whatever.
You see the story of yoursalvation played out again with
baptism and all of thesepictures, all of these stories,
all these practices they'regospel show and tells that
invite us into personallywalking out what we have now
(22:26):
corporately practiced together.
So my strongest encouragementwould be to, if you are
listening to this and you'retrying to follow the Lord and
you're either trying to do it onyour own or trying to do it
outside the context of a localchurch, before you would pick up
my book, before you would readmy book, anything like that,
(22:48):
before you'd listen to any otherpodcast episodes that Coffee
and Bible Time do or thepodcasts that I run, I would
really encourage you to embedyourself, root yourself in the
life of a local church.
I think that's where health andvitality and the spiritual
practices is often going toemerge.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I don't think I would be or know as much as I do now,
and I'm not claiming to know alot, but I'm just saying I have
grown more in my Christian walkby being a part of a couple
different communities within ourchurch, one being a mom's group
community and doing Biblestudies every year together with
them and just being infellowship.
(23:26):
And then just our couple smallgroup that we've met with and
just do life together andsupport one another.
And just seeing how otherpeople are doing their walks has
been incredibly encouraging,great.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I love that.
Yeah, that's same for me.
Same for me, and I think thespiritual practices can be
practiced in a healthy way,maybe even a healthier way when
they're practiced within thecontext of Christian community,
whether it's prayer or Biblereading or evangelism.
You think about, like, when Godsends out his followers.
He sends them out in groups oftwo to go out and practice
(24:02):
mission, to go out and do thework of an evangelist.
He sends them out in communitywith one another.
He tells them they're going toknow you by the love that you
have for one another.
He teaches them in community,they listen in community, they
eat together in community, theytravel in community.
This is the proper context forour walk with the Lord and
fellowship with God.
Because the book is called Formfor Fellowship, because the
(24:24):
whole goal of spiritualformation is greater fellowship
with God and greater fellowshipwith God's people.
Love God, love others, enjoytheir love, enjoy God's love.
This is why we exist why weexist.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
I was thinking about what just came to my mind was
about just even like breakingbread together, having a meal
together.
I feel like it's just kind oflike you know, from just
discussing sermon notes orsomething like that to kind of
just letting your shoulders downand being and having a meal
together, I think is just so, soincredibly nourishing to the
soul too, not just for the food.
Well, kyle, one thing that youwrite about is the tension we as
(25:10):
believers have between beingperfect in Christ and still
being in the process offormation.
How would you encourageChristians to navigate that
balance?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, you know.
Hebrews 10, 14, the writer ofHebrews says for we have been
perfected for all time, or forChrist is perfected by one
offering for all time those whoare being sanctified.
That tension, perfected for alltime being sanctified, that's
the Christian life, that's ourunion with Christ and our
(25:45):
communion with God is how I talkabout it in the book I wrote
before this Home with God thatin Christ Jesus, you and I are
perfect for good forever.
Right now, because we are inthe perfect one and yet
practically that's still beingworked out.
This is the difference betweenour justification, where we are
declared righteous by God forgood forever in Jesus, and our
sanctification, where we arebeing made into what God has
(26:05):
already said.
We are in Jesus and thistension is really the adventure
of the Christian life.
This is the adventure ofabiding in Christ, is beginning
to become who God has alreadysaid we already are.
That's the journey of Christianformation, is increasingly
becoming like Christ, whom youare already identified with by
(26:30):
God's grace.
This is a real beauty infreedom.
You think about how Johninstructs the church in 1 John 2
.
I love this because he capturesthis truth and this tension.
He's writing to them and hesays my little children, I'm
writing these things to you sothat you may not sin.
But if you do sin, you have anadvocate with the Father, the
Lord Jesus Christ.
(26:50):
John's saying it's better foryou to not sin, it's better for
you to walk in holiness andobedience.
This is what is good for theChristian.
But if you do sin, you have anadvocate with the Father, who is
the Lord Jesus Christ, to whomGod isn't waiting to make up his
mind about his people.
He's already declared usbeloved for good forever.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah, and that hope that we have is, I think,
crucial to day-to-day livinghere on this earth.
Kyle, tell us, for people whowant to just go deeper into what
we've just scratched thesurface on here, how can people
find out more information aboutyou and get a copy of Formed for
(27:48):
Fellowship?
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, so you can get Formed for Fellowship wherever
you get your books.
So it's on Amazon, it's atLifeway, barnes, noble, your
local bookstore, it's everywhere.
It's on Audible, it's on Kindle.
So Formed for Fellowship is youwant to get it?
In terms of finding me, you cango to kyleworleynet or you can
find me on social media at KyleWorley, on Instagram and X.
(28:09):
That's where I'm at.
So any of those places are howyou can follow along the journey
.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Fantastic, and we will make sure we include all
those links in our show notes.
I have just a few questionsthat I have to ask you as being
a guest here.
The first one is what Bible isyour go-to Bible and which
translation is it?
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Great question.
I love that you ask thesequestions at the end of these
episodes.
I love listening to otherpeople's answers on these
questions.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yes, me too Okay.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
So it depends for Bible translation.
I have two translations I usepretty regularly.
I use the ESV that's what Ipreach from at the local church
where I pastor and I use the CSB.
I got to tell you I prefer theCSB.
For most of the kind ofepistolary formats and most of
reading through the letters inthe New Testament, I prefer the
CSB.
I also prefer the CSB for mostof the Old Testament narrative.
(29:02):
I prefer the ESV for wisdomliterature and anything in
poetry or prophecy.
So I'm a little bit of a mutt.
I preach from the ESV.
My personal reading and studyis really ESV and CSB, just
depending on what genre I'mlooking at Right Right.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Oh my gosh, I love that.
That's really awesome.
Okay, do you have any favoriteBible journaling supplies?
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yes, yes, I do.
I actually I put some over herefor you just because I knew you
would ask.
This is not an ad, but I dolove these ESV journaling spiral
bound because they can lay flatand they have like a ton of
note space on them.
So I got to tell you I startedusing these and it doesn't have
to be this.
(29:42):
I think most of the Bibletranslations now have these
spiral bound For Bible study.
I love having spiral bound so Ican lay flat and I can take a
bunch of notes when I'm doing myBible study.
So I love using spiral boundbooks of the Bible, or this is
like the Pentateuch, so it's thefirst five books of the Old
Testament spiral bound.
But I love using spiral boundfor Bible study and journaling.
(30:05):
For pens, I have found I reallyuse these iBiom.
They're called fineliner pens.
They just don't bleed through.
So this is like my favorite.
It's called iBiom B-A-Y-A-M,also not an ad.
I favorite it's called I BuyumB-A-Y-A-M, also not an ad.
I'm not like sponsored by thesepeople, but they're great pins
(30:28):
for Bible study.
So for Bible journaling, biblestudy, I'm using Spiral Bound
mostly and then I use those pinsso that they don't bleed
through.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, oh, my goodness .
Okay, that's awesome.
We will make sure we includesome links for those.
And then, lastly, what is yourfavorite app or website for
Bible study tools?
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Great questions.
Yeah, so the two that I usepredominantly.
I am a big Logos user.
I use Logos for Bible study.
So if it's like deep, like ifI'm trying to like really do
Bible study, like I'm talkinglike get into it a little bit
word studies, cross references,anything like that kind of
deeper Bible study, I call itwell-digging Bible study.
(31:06):
I would say Logos is what I usefor that.
And then, if it's Bible intake,I use a Bible app called Dwell
and they have great audio forthe Bible and Bible readers, a
range of options, a range oftranslation.
So if it's just Bible intake, Iuse Dwell.
If it's like Bible study, I useLogos.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
All right, both of those suggestions are awesome.
We will include links in theshow notes for Logos, for sure,
because I think we have anaffiliate with them which I
think our listeners can get aspecial deal on that.
And actually they've done a lotof changes to Lagos to make it
wonderful for people who arejust starting to get into Bible
(31:46):
study to be able to use it alittle bit more easily and much
less expensively.
So that's really awesome.
And Dwell is fantastic too.
All right, well, kyle, it'sbeen such a pleasure having you
here.
Thank you so much for justgiving some fresh new life to
people as we're listening to theformation practices and the
(32:07):
importance of, and just ouroverall desire to connect with
God.
Thank you for helping us dothat.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Hey, thanks for having me.
It was an honor to be here.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
And to our listeners.
I just want to encourage youall to check out our show notes,
pick up a copy of Kyle's book.
I'm telling you, it's so great.
He also has a great sense ofhumor and a lot of really fun
stories in there as well, inaddition to all of the amazing
tools and information.
So check out his book, and wejust thank you for listening to
(32:36):
the podcast.
God bless you and have awonderful day.
Popular Podcasts
True Crime Tonight
If you eat, sleep, and breathe true crime, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT is serving up your nightly fix. Five nights a week, KT STUDIOS & iHEART RADIO invite listeners to pull up a seat for an unfiltered look at the biggest cases making headlines, celebrity scandals, and the trials everyone is watching. With a mix of expert analysis, hot takes, and listener call-ins, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT goes beyond the headlines to uncover the twists, turns, and unanswered questions that keep us all obsessed—because, at TRUE CRIME TONIGHT, there’s a seat for everyone. Whether breaking down crime scene forensics, scrutinizing serial killers, or debating the most binge-worthy true crime docs, True Crime Tonight is the fresh, fast-paced, and slightly addictive home for true crime lovers.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.