May 29, 2025 • 31 mins
How can the Holy Spirit guide our study of the Bible? In this episode, New Testament scholar Dr. Holly Beers joins Ellen to discuss what it means to invite His presence into our time in Scripture. Using Colossians and Philemon as an example, Holly shows how scholarly tools and spiritual sensitivity go hand in hand when studying God's word.
Scriptures referenced:
- Luke 8
- 1 Corinthians 12-14
- Colossians 1:7
- Colossians 3:11
- Acts 14:22
- 1 Peter 3:17-18
Colossians and Philemon: A Transformative Bible Commentary for Spirit-Filled Christians
About Dr. Holly Beers:
Faculty Page | Messages
Favorite Bible: NLT | NRSV
Favorite Journaling Supplies: Colored Markers | Colored Pens
Favorite Apps: Accordance | Bible Gateway
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ellen Krause (00:04):
At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
Our goal is to help you delightin God's Word and thrive in
Christian living.
Each week, we talk to subjectmatter experts who broaden your
biblical understanding,encourage you in hard times and
provide life-building tips toenhance your Christian walk.
We are so glad you have joinedus.
(00:25):
Hi everyone, and welcome backto the Coffee and Bible Time
podcast.
This is Ellen, your host, andI'm so glad that you're here
today.
Let me ask you something as weget started.
Have you ever wondered how tohear the voice of the Holy
Spirit while studying the Bible?
(00:45):
Or maybe you've asked what itreally looks like to follow
Jesus, even when doing so costsyou something your comfort, your
reputation, maybe evenrelationships?
Well, if you've ever askedquestions like these, then this
episode is for you.
Today we are diving into aconversation that brings
(01:05):
together two powerful realitiesthe unchanging truth of
scripture and the living, activepresence of the Holy Spirit.
We're talking about what itmeans to listen for the Spirit's
voice while reading your Bible,how Paul's letters to the early
church still speak into thecultural challenges that we're
facing today, and how God may beinviting you into a life of
(01:29):
deeper love, costly obedienceand spirit-led courage.
Our guest today is Dr HollyBeers, a Bible scholar and
teacher who earned her PhD fromthe London School of Theology
and is an associate professor ofreligious studies at Westmont
College.
Dr Beers is the author of apowerful commentary on
(01:49):
Colossians and Philemon that ispart of the Word and Spirit
Commentary Series.
She also regularly preaches andteaches, so whether you've
never read a commentary beforeor you're someone who loves
diving deep, I think today'sepisode will open your eyes to
new ways of reading scriptureand encountering Jesus in the
(02:11):
process.
Welcome.
Dr. Holly Beers (02:12):
Holly, thanks so much for having me.
Happy to be here.
Ellen Krause (02:16):
Wonderful.
Well, we are so glad thatyou're here and, to be very
honest, I've always wanted tohave someone on our program to
help us understand how thecharismatic movement is part of
the broader evangelical worldbut adds an emphasis on the
ongoing work of the Holy Spiritand spiritual gifts.
(02:38):
So I'm very excited to have youshare that with us.
Why don't you start out by justtelling us a little bit about
yourself and how you came toknow the Lord?
Dr. Holly Beers (02:48):
Well, I was raised in a Christian family, in
a Pentecostal Christian family,so I grew up in a space where
people regularly talked abouttheir relationship with Jesus
and talked about listening tothe Spirit.
Though I think I was about fiveor six, actually, when I first
had a conversation with my dadabout what it meant to follow
(03:09):
Jesus for myself and not justrely on the faith of my parents.
I remember we were in mybedroom, and my childhood
bedroom had purple walls andpink carpet, so I loved it.
I chose those things, yes, and Iremember being with my dad and
asking him if I was a Christian,and he said well, do you follow
(03:31):
Jesus?
And I said something like youknow well, you and mom do, so I
do.
And he said no, you need tochoose for yourself.
So he prayed with me that nightand that's how it started.
But really, it was the faith ofthat entire church that I was
raised in who nurtured me andhelped me understand what it
meant to follow Jesus me andhelped me understand what it
meant to follow Jesus.
Ellen Krause (03:48):
Well, obviously it had a very profound influence
on you, because you ended upbecoming a Bible scholar.
Tell us what your road to thatlooked like.
Dr. Holly Beers (03:58):
Honestly, I'm still surprised that I'm in this
place, because it was not on myradar at all.
I didn't know even that therewere Bible scholars when I was
growing up, but I've alwaysloved the Bible always and I was
a kid who actually read myadult Bible and had questions.
I was the kid who had thequestions that people weren't
always sure how to answer, butmy parents weren't afraid of my
(04:19):
questions.
They just didn't always havethe kinds of answers that I was
looking for, and I've alwaysbeen good at school and liked
school.
So it actually happened incollege where I had a professor,
a theology professor, who saidto me Holly, you could do what I
do, and no one had ever saidanything like that to me before.
So he really changed my life inthat way, because he helped me
(04:42):
imagine a space for myself thatI hadn't even been able to
picture before.
That.
Ellen Krause (04:48):
That's incredible.
Does he know now that how much?
Dr. Holly Beers (04:51):
he's influenced you.
He does when I finished mydissertation my PhD actually and
I dedicated it to a bunch ofpeople, but he was the first
person I mentioned.
Ellen Krause (05:01):
Oh, that's so beautiful.
Well, what books of the Biblehave been your primary focus of
study, and how has that worktranslated to your walk with
Christ?
Dr. Holly Beers (05:14):
Well, as a good Pentecostal, I love the book of
Acts.
It's always been my favoriteand has been my primary area of
research and specialty.
So, because the author of Actsalso writes the book of Luke,
I've also spent a lot of time inLuke and Luke is my favorite
gospel.
Those two are probably the most.
But, as you mentioned, I'vewritten a commentary on
Colossians and Philemon.
(05:34):
So in the last five to sevenyears I've spent a lot more time
in some of Paul's letters,especially Colossians and
Philemon.
So I would say those four Luke,acts, colossians and Philemon
are probably my key areas andhonestly, I've just been shaped
and formed so much by all ofthem.
I mean walking.
When I read Luke's gospel Iimagine myself following Jesus
(05:56):
in real time with the women Lukementions in chapter eight
Joanna, susanna and MaryMagdalene.
I mean they're my friends andmy imagination, and so I imagine
myself with them and listeningto Jesus and watching Jesus and
considering always what hiscalls to discipleship mean for
me.
You know he talks a lot aboutmoney.
He talks a lot about the waythat we treat people.
(06:17):
He talks a lot about how what'sinside of us comes out of us
and I want all of that to honorGod in my life, so that's been
really formative.
And then watching the HolySpirit and the book of Acts
empower all kinds of differentpeople and communities all over
the Roman empire is soincredible.
That book has really shaped theway my husband and I and our
(06:37):
family live, into our localcommunity here, our church
community.
What does it mean for us totreat our Jesus family like real
family Because that's the modelwe get in Acts is that these
communities are like extendedfamily groups as they follow
Jesus together.
How do they take care of eachother?
How do they sacrifice for eachother?
So Acts has been reallyformative.
(06:59):
And then with Colossians andPhilemon I mean in Philemon
Paul's really challenging thisman named Philemon.
He's really pushing him prettyhard in his discipleship and I
think a lot about the ways thatpeople have pushed me in my
discipleship in good way.
You know it's hard sometimesbut it's good for us, it's
(07:20):
what's best for us.
So that's really shaped the waythat I receive that kind of
pushing.
You know, I think I'm hopefullyI'm less resistant than I used
to be when someone kind of triesto nudge me in the right
direction in my walk.
Ellen Krause (07:31):
So that's and and obviously right, that's the goal
of scripture is not just toknow more about it, but to be
actively living it out.
Yes, yes, that's so encouragingto hear.
Well, let's talk about invitingthe Holy Spirit into Bible
study.
There's a paragraph in yourcommentary in Colossians that I
(07:53):
wanted to just read to ouraudience and then we can talk
about it a little bit.
It says perhaps the time hascome when more and more in the
global church will embrace otherfollowers of Jesus, while
creating a new and bigger centerand reducing or eliminating the
size of the margin.
This does not mean thatsignificant areas of
(08:13):
disagreement are ignored.
It does mean that forgivenessand respectful conversation
oriented toward understandingare paramount.
How we treat one another asChristians is a powerful witness
to a watching world, and it issad that we have often
squandered our opportunities todemonstrate Christian love to
(08:33):
other holy ones.
And then you go on to say lovein the New Testament typically
is characterized not by emotionsor feelings but by sacrifice
and commitment, and its goal isredemptive in moving us towards
God's purposes.
It is this to which theColossian Christians and
Christians today are called.
(08:54):
I wanted to share this becauseour conversation today is really
exemplifying what Paul istalking about, and you're part
of the charismatic tradition,and I'm not and I'm so excited
for us and our listeners to alllearn from each other.
It's exciting that we togethercan sit as sisters in Christ and
(09:17):
learn from one another.
Give us some background forthose who are listening and are
not familiar with more of thecharismatic ways about how the
Holy Spirit is working today.
What does that look like foryou to listen to the Spirit's
voice as you teach or studyscripture?
Dr. Holly Beers (09:39):
This for me really comes from my tradition,
as you mentioned, where peopleregularly talked about what God
said to them or what the Spiritwas prompting them to do.
So I feel like I've grown upwith that language and that got
practiced and manifested throughspiritual gifts.
So charismatics today are notjust theoretically open to
(10:01):
spiritual gifts that we hearabout in places like 1
Corinthians 12 to 14, but theyactively practice them like
first Corinthians 12 to 14, butthey actively practice them.
So so I grew up hearing peoplegive words of knowledge.
People regularly prayed forhealing and I've seen many
people get healed.
People speak in tongues often,and I have since I was a kid,
(10:23):
before I even knew what I wassupposed to be doing, you know,
it was just part of my childhoodexperience.
So I feel like that contextgave me a heightened sensitivity
to listening to the Spirit in acertain kind of way.
And when I study scripturehonestly, I regularly, as I'm
getting started, I regularlypray for myself out loud, or, if
(10:46):
I'm with a group, we pray.
We say Spirit of God.
What are you up to in this texttoday?
What were you up to in theancient world when you worked
through the human author towrite this text and then what
are you up to today?
What do you want to say to ustoday?
And then we try to listen tothat.
I listen If I'm with a group,we try to listen and we talk
(11:08):
about what we're hearing.
So in some ways it's verysimilar, I think, to what a lot
of people do when they're in aBible study or something.
They might go around the circleand talk about what God is doing
in the text or what they thinkthe text might mean for them.
So it's not that different inthat way.
But I think the naming of itand saying we're going to listen
to the spirit today, we'regoing to listen to the spirit
today, we're going to openourselves up, you know, we say
(11:30):
give us soft hearts and help usto hear, help us not to miss
what you might be trying to say.
And then we, you know, try topay attention to a prompting,
maybe, or an image that comes tomind, or a phrase or something
like that.
That's often what it looks likefor me, and when I write my
scholarship I do the same thing.
I say Spirit of God, youinspired this text and I want
(11:55):
you to inspire me to understandit well and to write about it
well so that I can help otherpeople understand the Bible in
better ways.
That's really what I feel likeI'm passionate about doing.
Ellen Krause (12:20):
That's really what I feel like I'm passionate
about doing, for is hearing fromGod and knowing what it is that
he's trying to teach us.
How do you balance listeningfor the voice of the Spirit
speaking through the text whilealso having a strong awareness
(12:42):
of the cultural differences thatwere going on, the context of
the original audience?
Tell us about that process.
Dr. Holly Beers (12:53):
Well, because of what I do for a living, those
things almost always gotogether for me, though
sometimes one of them comesfirst.
So, for example, if I'm in aNew Testament text and I know
the New Testament much betterthan I know the Old Testament
but I'm working, I'm continuallyworking on that, you know,
spending more time with the OldTestament so that I feel like I
can hear even the echoes of theOld Testament that show up in
(13:14):
the New Testament.
I want to hear those things, beable to be able to connect them
.
But often, because I know theNew Testament fairly well, when
I come to a text I already knowa lot of the historical and
cultural background to it.
So I'm coming into it with someof those pieces already in mind
.
But and then I'll say spirit ofGod, show me what, help me to
see what you want me to see.
What should I notice in thistext?
(13:40):
You know, is there part of itthat you want to use to form me
today?
That kind of thing is what I do.
And then, when I'm in the oldTestament especially, or some
texts that maybe I don't knowquite as well, I notice what I
notice, and I hear a lot ofpeople when they study the Bible
.
We don't use that language.
I notice what I notice and thenand I say you know God, how are
you trying to form me throughthis?
And sometimes that will lead toa historical or cultural
(14:01):
question where, as I read thetext, I think, oh, I wonder,
what's going on here?
This feels like it's notsomething that in our time and
place, something people would door say.
So what's going on herehistorically?
And then maybe I check acommentary to see, and once I
understand that, that alwaysdeepens my relationship with the
text and, for me at least,helps God form me more
(14:23):
powerfully.
So for me those pieces gotogether and I kind of move back
and forth, even if onesometimes comes first and the
other one comes second and theymight flip the next time around.
Ellen Krause (14:33):
Yeah, I can see how it's so important to be
praying through the process ofunderstanding God's word, and
that's something that we allneed to be doing as we're
reading the scripture.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout Colossians and Philemon,
which is your latest area ofexpertise.
(14:57):
What's one historical orculture insight about these
letters that really changed theway you understood it?
Dr. Holly Beers (15:07):
Great question.
So I'm sure I had heard itpreviously but it didn't really
sink in that Paul didn't plantthe church in Colossae until I
started working on these letters.
It's very clear that he doesn'tknow this community very well
Because we hear in Colossians1-7 that this guy named Epaphras
(15:31):
actually planted that church.
Once I started really thinkingthrough that I realized, oh my
word, Paul's kind of minimalrelationship with this church is
shaping the way he's saying allkinds of things.
In the letter to the Colossians, For example, he doesn't push
them quite as hard as he doesthe communities in some of his
other letters.
Think about how hard he pushesthe Corinthian church and
(15:52):
something like 1 Corinthians.
I mean he knows those peoplewell.
He's lived with them for abouta year and a half, day in, day
out.
He knows those people well, youknow he's lived with them for
about a year and a half, day in,day out.
So he pushes them pretty hardand there's lots of really
personal information in 1Corinthians and Paul's
critiquing them pretty directlyand we don't get that kind of
agitation or that kind ofpressure in Colossians.
(16:12):
It's a little gentler whichmakes sense.
If Paul doesn't know them verywell, he's trying to move them
forward in their discipleship,but he's really inviting them in
in a way that's much morecareful.
That just affected all kinds ofthings as I was reading the
text, because in the householdcode section, for example, where
Paul talks about husbands andwives and children and parents
and slaves and masters, he's notvery radical in terms of what
(16:37):
he's asking them to do.
A lot of what he's asking themto do would be known and
understood in their broaderculture, but he is pushing them
a little bit to change in theirrelationships with each other
because the relationships needto be formed by kingdom of God
values.
And I thought, wow, this helpsme understand Paul's whole
(16:57):
approach, his style as acommunicator.
And the reason that matters somuch is that in the letter to
Philemon he clearly knowsPhilemon very well.
This guy is his friend, theyare good buddies, they are
social peers, equals accordingto cultural standards, and so
Paul pushes Philemon much, muchharder, but he can because he
knows Philemon well.
So when we compare and contrastthose letters, we can see the
(17:20):
different approach incommunication and that's really
shaped the way I think aboutcommunicating with audiences.
I don't know very well how canI be appropriate and careful but
also push people gently intheir discipleship.
And then someone I do know verywell how can I push much harder
Because the relationship allowsfor it, and how do I allow
people who know me well to pushme much harder?
(17:42):
So that's probably one of thekey historical pieces that
really shaped my understandingof the letters.
Ellen Krause (17:50):
That's so interesting, and definitely
something that we're alwaysencouraging our listeners, is
the importance of understandingthe context of a passage, and
what you've just described hereis just so enlightening as to
how he pushed people, so tospeak, differently, and I love
(18:13):
how you apply that to us, eventoday.
I mean, there's times where weneed to be more sensitive.
And then like you said, knowingothers.
Well, it's, and that's what Iwant, right, as a strong
believer, I want someone to holdme accountable, whereas maybe
when I was a baby Christian thatyou know, there's just
(18:34):
different steps that you take asyou're growing, yes, well, how
does the theme of brotherhoodand equality in Christ
intertwine in these books?
Dr. Holly Beers (18:48):
Well, those are two main themes in these two
books.
I mean, in the letter to theColossians he calls them
brothers and sisters.
Some Bible translations willsay brothers, but their word
brother got used the way thatour word guys often gets used,
where if I say hey, guys, youknow I can use that to address a
male and female mixed group.
(19:09):
So even if your Bibletranslation just says brothers,
we need to think of that asbrothers and sisters.
Paul's calling them family,basically siblings and siblings
are social peers.
And then he uses brotherlanguage in the letter to
Philemon too.
So that's part of it.
In Colossians 3, paul has one ofhis famous verses where he says
(19:29):
here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised,
barbarian, scythian, slave orfree, but Christ is all and in
all.
You know there's a famous textlike that in Galatians as well,
and that kind of leveling out ofpeople, that kind of equality,
that vision, that image was veryrare in Paul's day, in that
(19:51):
time and place.
I mean, everybody was rankedaccording to social status and
it it was very clear Everybodyknew where everybody else ranked
.
So for Paul to level that outand say no, in Jesus, basically
we're all family, we're allequals was, was crazy and
surprising.
So what we see Paul doing inColossians with that is
(20:13):
encouraging people because theirsiblings, their family're
family and they're social peersto live in ways that make sense
in light of that.
And that gets kind ofturbocharged in the letter to
Philemon.
Because in Philemon Paul sayshey brother, hey brother in
Christ, you know this slave.
You have Onesimus.
Yeah, I want you to welcome himback, not as a slave but as a
(20:35):
brother, and nobody in Paul'sworld would have called their
slave.
If they owned one, no one wouldhave called that person a
sibling because obviously slavesrank way below masters.
But Paul's playing with thosecategories and leveling out in
an equality-based way Philemon'srelationship with his slave.
I think Philemon is Paul's mostradical letter.
(20:55):
I think Philemon is Paul's mostradical letter.
He pushes back so hard againstslavery and says no, in the
Jesus family, like we arebrothers and sisters, and that
means that you, philemon, needto take this really seriously.
So it's one thing for Philemonto have heard and I'm sure he
did hear Paul say things like oh, there's no slavery, free, or
(21:15):
Jew or Gentile or any of that,we're all one in Christ.
I'm sure Philemon had heardPaul say that, but now in the
letter to Philemon, paul'sasking Philemon to actually live
it, because now it's going toaffect his relationship with his
slave, and I just find that sopowerful.
Ellen Krause (21:33):
Yes, it sure is.
Again, we're back to thehearing versus doing yes, and he
really was putting his feet tothe fire.
Well, you know, we see inPaul's life that following
Christ was a sacrifice in a lotof ways.
Tell us about you know.
What would you say to believerswho are in a season where
(21:58):
following Jesus is coming at acost?
Dr. Holly Beers (22:05):
Yes, well, paul's life models that for us.
I mean Paul's at the heart ofkingdom of God.
You know vision, and he has alot of sacrifices he has to make
, but of course that's based onJesus.
Jesus as the inaugurator, thebringer of the kingdom of God,
paid the ultimate cost his life.
So in that way, it shouldn'tsurprise us when we have
(22:26):
sacrifices to make, when we gothrough hardships, because that
is the model Jesus actuallygives us.
As I've said, I love the bookof Acts and there's this passage
in chapter 14 where Paul andBarnabas go to encourage some of
these early churches, thesefollowers of Jesus in some of
these areas, and these are newChristians.
And in verse 22, luke tells usthat Paul and Barnabas encourage
(22:48):
these new Christians by sayingwe must go through many
hardships to enter the kingdomof God.
That's their encouragement.
I've thought about that sooften for years and years,
because what does it mean forthat to be encouraging?
Well, it's, it's realistic,it's a way to say this is part
of what it looks like to live inthe kingdom, and and we need to
(23:12):
be honest about that and talkabout that, and then do that
together in community too,because you know, he's not
telling Paul and Barnabas aren'ttelling just an individual
person that they'recommunicating that to groups of
Christians.
In the book of 1 Peter,actually, peter says that when
followers of Jesus in thechurches to whom he's writing,
he says when you're goingthrough persecution, remember
(23:35):
that this helps you identifymore closely with Jesusesus.
Like this connects you moredeeply to jesus, because he's
the one who suffered for us andI find that to be helpful to my
own life, absolutely, absolutely.
Ellen Krause (23:47):
And when you were talking, what came to my mind
was also james and how he sayswhen you encounter trials of
various kinds, count it joy, andI love that, though that count
means like over time, like we'renot going to necessarily
experience that immediately, butlater, when you have hindsight
(24:09):
vision, you can see how God usedthat experience to mold you and
shape you to become more likeChrist.
Dr. Holly Beers (24:18):
Well, and even with Jesus's own example, right,
he has to go through the hardtime and then, after that is
when he gets vindicated, afterthat is when he gets the
glorification piece, when he'sraised from the dead and then
ascends to the father.
So that gives us some kind ofmodel too.
It's not necessarily going tobe in the moment that we feel
great about it, but later Godwill show what's true, and God
(24:40):
will prove what's right.
Ellen Krause (24:42):
Absolutely, absolutely Well, holly, we've
only just sort of hit the tip ofthe iceberg here with all that
you have to offer in the workthat you're doing.
Where can listeners find outmore information about you and
your work?
Dr. Holly Beers (25:02):
listeners find out more information about you
and your work.
Oh well, in terms of myacademic work, the easiest thing
would probably be to search formy faculty page at Westmont.
If you typed in my name, HollyBeers, and then Westmont College
, I'm sure it would pop right up.
But I've also done quite a bitof teaching and preaching that's
ended up on YouTube, so thatwould be an easier, probably and
maybe more fun way.
If you want to see what kindsof books or articles I've
(25:23):
written, then go to my facultypage, but if you just want to
watch or listen to some of whatI've done, it's on YouTube.
Ellen Krause (25:30):
Awesome, okay, well, we will make sure we put
links to those in our show notes.
Before we close out, though, Ihave to take the opportunity to
ask you some of our favoritequestions here.
What Bible do you use and whattranslation is it?
Dr. Holly Beers (25:50):
My students always ask me this and they're
always disappointed when I say Iuse all the English
translations because I can alsocheck the Greek.
So since I teach people how toread the New Testament in the
original Greek, that's part ofwhat I do as my job.
So because I get to look at theGreek and help students work
(26:10):
through that, I regularlyreference English translations,
but I check a whole range, so Idon't necessarily have a
favorite English translation.
I think they're all good aslong as they're done by a
committee of people who areworking together, so it's not
just one person's opinion.
Then I think there's a good,healthy place for it in the
church.
(26:30):
You know the.
The different English Bibletranslations are aimed at
different demographics and Ithink that's okay.
I think that's a good, healthything.
So that's probably kind ofdisappointing for some of your
listeners.
I'm sorry, but that's reallywhat I do no, no, no, no, that's
okay.
Ellen Krause (26:45):
I think we're kind of thinking of, like, what's on
your bed stand, or somethinglike that.
Dr. Holly Beers (26:49):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I just I check a range.
Probably most often I check theNRSV and the ESV and the NIV
and the NLT.
I'm actually on the revisioncommittee for the New Living
Translation, the NLT, becauseall the major English
translations get revised on aregular basis.
So I've been spending more timein the NLT than I used to
(27:10):
because I'm working on it.
But I check a whole range.
Ellen Krause (27:14):
Oh, that's so awesome.
Okay, do you have any favoritejournaling supplies or?
Dr. Holly Beers (27:19):
do you do journaling?
I am not a consistent journaler, I'm an occasional journaler
and I would say I like color.
I have a whole range of markersand colored pens because for me
that's always been helpful andinformative and then when I look
back on something I can quicklysee how I was thinking about it
(27:40):
by the colors I was using andhow I organized it in that way.
So color is probably markersand pens.
That's probably my favoritetool.
Ellen Krause (27:49):
Awesome.
Okay, and lastly, what is yourfavorite app or website for
Bible study tools?
Dr. Holly Beers (27:59):
Well, I bought one called Accordance that I use
regularly in my academic work.
But for the free ones, I likeBible Gateway.
I think it's very helpful.
It gives a lot of goodresources and you can check a
big range of Englishtranslations while you're on it.
So I think that's helpful.
But my students are regularlyasking me to take a look at some
(28:19):
app they found and honestly,there are so many good ones out
there.
I just I don't.
I mean, I'm kind of unaware insome ways of all the good
resources.
So we live in a really amazingtime where we have access to so
many good options online.
Ellen Krause (28:33):
Yes, yes, we sure do.
Well, dr Beers, thank you somuch for sharing your wisdom and
your heart, your love for Jesus, with us today.
Dr. Holly Beers (28:43):
I'm happy to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Ellen Krause (28:46):
And to all of our listeners if you've ever
wondered how to hold scriptureand the spirit together in your
faith journey, I hope that todaygave you not only some answers,
but also a hunger to press intothis even more.
And so, if this conversationdid stir something in your heart
, we encourage you to check outDr Beer's commentary on
(29:10):
Colossians and Philemon.
We will have it linked in theresources in the show notes and,
as always, we hope you willwalk away from today's episode
encouraged to open your Bible,listen for God's voice and live
out your faith boldly whereverGod has placed you.
Thank you for listening andhave a blessed day.
At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
Our goal is to help you delightin God's Word and thrive in
Christian living.
Each week, we talk to subjectmatter experts who broaden your
biblical understanding,encourage you in hard times and
provide life-building tips toenhance your Christian walk.
We are so glad you have joinedus.
(00:25):
Hi everyone, and welcome backto the Coffee and Bible Time
podcast.
This is Ellen, your host, andI'm so glad that you're here
today.
Let me ask you something as weget started.
Have you ever wondered how tohear the voice of the Holy
Spirit while studying the Bible?
(00:45):
Or maybe you've asked what itreally looks like to follow
Jesus, even when doing so costsyou something your comfort, your
reputation, maybe evenrelationships?
Well, if you've ever askedquestions like these, then this
episode is for you.
Today we are diving into aconversation that brings
(01:05):
together two powerful realitiesthe unchanging truth of
scripture and the living, activepresence of the Holy Spirit.
We're talking about what itmeans to listen for the Spirit's
voice while reading your Bible,how Paul's letters to the early
church still speak into thecultural challenges that we're
facing today, and how God may beinviting you into a life of
(01:29):
deeper love, costly obedienceand spirit-led courage.
Our guest today is Dr HollyBeers, a Bible scholar and
teacher who earned her PhD fromthe London School of Theology
and is an associate professor ofreligious studies at Westmont
College.
Dr Beers is the author of apowerful commentary on
(01:49):
Colossians and Philemon that ispart of the Word and Spirit
Commentary Series.
She also regularly preaches andteaches, so whether you've
never read a commentary beforeor you're someone who loves
diving deep, I think today'sepisode will open your eyes to
new ways of reading scriptureand encountering Jesus in the
(02:11):
process.
Welcome.
Dr. Holly Beers (02:12):
Holly, thanks so much for having me.
Happy to be here.
Ellen Krause (02:16):
Wonderful.
Well, we are so glad thatyou're here and, to be very
honest, I've always wanted tohave someone on our program to
help us understand how thecharismatic movement is part of
the broader evangelical worldbut adds an emphasis on the
ongoing work of the Holy Spiritand spiritual gifts.
(02:38):
So I'm very excited to have youshare that with us.
Why don't you start out by justtelling us a little bit about
yourself and how you came toknow the Lord?
Dr. Holly Beers (02:48):
Well, I was raised in a Christian family, in
a Pentecostal Christian family,so I grew up in a space where
people regularly talked abouttheir relationship with Jesus
and talked about listening tothe Spirit.
Though I think I was about fiveor six, actually, when I first
had a conversation with my dadabout what it meant to follow
(03:09):
Jesus for myself and not justrely on the faith of my parents.
I remember we were in mybedroom, and my childhood
bedroom had purple walls andpink carpet, so I loved it.
I chose those things, yes, and Iremember being with my dad and
asking him if I was a Christian,and he said well, do you follow
(03:31):
Jesus?
And I said something like youknow well, you and mom do, so I
do.
And he said no, you need tochoose for yourself.
So he prayed with me that nightand that's how it started.
But really, it was the faith ofthat entire church that I was
raised in who nurtured me andhelped me understand what it
meant to follow Jesus me andhelped me understand what it
meant to follow Jesus.
Ellen Krause (03:48):
Well, obviously it had a very profound influence
on you, because you ended upbecoming a Bible scholar.
Tell us what your road to thatlooked like.
Dr. Holly Beers (03:58):
Honestly, I'm still surprised that I'm in this
place, because it was not on myradar at all.
I didn't know even that therewere Bible scholars when I was
growing up, but I've alwaysloved the Bible always and I was
a kid who actually read myadult Bible and had questions.
I was the kid who had thequestions that people weren't
always sure how to answer, butmy parents weren't afraid of my
(04:19):
questions.
They just didn't always havethe kinds of answers that I was
looking for, and I've alwaysbeen good at school and liked
school.
So it actually happened incollege where I had a professor,
a theology professor, who saidto me Holly, you could do what I
do, and no one had ever saidanything like that to me before.
So he really changed my life inthat way, because he helped me
(04:42):
imagine a space for myself thatI hadn't even been able to
picture before.
That.
Ellen Krause (04:48):
That's incredible.
Does he know now that how much?
Dr. Holly Beers (04:51):
he's influenced you.
He does when I finished mydissertation my PhD actually and
I dedicated it to a bunch ofpeople, but he was the first
person I mentioned.
Ellen Krause (05:01):
Oh, that's so beautiful.
Well, what books of the Biblehave been your primary focus of
study, and how has that worktranslated to your walk with
Christ?
Dr. Holly Beers (05:14):
Well, as a good Pentecostal, I love the book of
Acts.
It's always been my favoriteand has been my primary area of
research and specialty.
So, because the author of Actsalso writes the book of Luke,
I've also spent a lot of time inLuke and Luke is my favorite
gospel.
Those two are probably the most.
But, as you mentioned, I'vewritten a commentary on
Colossians and Philemon.
(05:34):
So in the last five to sevenyears I've spent a lot more time
in some of Paul's letters,especially Colossians and
Philemon.
So I would say those four Luke,acts, colossians and Philemon
are probably my key areas andhonestly, I've just been shaped
and formed so much by all ofthem.
I mean walking.
When I read Luke's gospel Iimagine myself following Jesus
(05:56):
in real time with the women Lukementions in chapter eight
Joanna, susanna and MaryMagdalene.
I mean they're my friends andmy imagination, and so I imagine
myself with them and listeningto Jesus and watching Jesus and
considering always what hiscalls to discipleship mean for
me.
You know he talks a lot aboutmoney.
He talks a lot about the waythat we treat people.
(06:17):
He talks a lot about how what'sinside of us comes out of us
and I want all of that to honorGod in my life, so that's been
really formative.
And then watching the HolySpirit and the book of Acts
empower all kinds of differentpeople and communities all over
the Roman empire is soincredible.
That book has really shaped theway my husband and I and our
(06:37):
family live, into our localcommunity here, our church
community.
What does it mean for us totreat our Jesus family like real
family Because that's the modelwe get in Acts is that these
communities are like extendedfamily groups as they follow
Jesus together.
How do they take care of eachother?
How do they sacrifice for eachother?
So Acts has been reallyformative.
(06:59):
And then with Colossians andPhilemon I mean in Philemon
Paul's really challenging thisman named Philemon.
He's really pushing him prettyhard in his discipleship and I
think a lot about the ways thatpeople have pushed me in my
discipleship in good way.
You know it's hard sometimesbut it's good for us, it's
(07:20):
what's best for us.
So that's really shaped the waythat I receive that kind of
pushing.
You know, I think I'm hopefullyI'm less resistant than I used
to be when someone kind of triesto nudge me in the right
direction in my walk.
Ellen Krause (07:31):
So that's and and obviously right, that's the goal
of scripture is not just toknow more about it, but to be
actively living it out.
Yes, yes, that's so encouragingto hear.
Well, let's talk about invitingthe Holy Spirit into Bible
study.
There's a paragraph in yourcommentary in Colossians that I
(07:53):
wanted to just read to ouraudience and then we can talk
about it a little bit.
It says perhaps the time hascome when more and more in the
global church will embrace otherfollowers of Jesus, while
creating a new and bigger centerand reducing or eliminating the
size of the margin.
This does not mean thatsignificant areas of
(08:13):
disagreement are ignored.
It does mean that forgivenessand respectful conversation
oriented toward understandingare paramount.
How we treat one another asChristians is a powerful witness
to a watching world, and it issad that we have often
squandered our opportunities todemonstrate Christian love to
(08:33):
other holy ones.
And then you go on to say lovein the New Testament typically
is characterized not by emotionsor feelings but by sacrifice
and commitment, and its goal isredemptive in moving us towards
God's purposes.
It is this to which theColossian Christians and
Christians today are called.
(08:54):
I wanted to share this becauseour conversation today is really
exemplifying what Paul istalking about, and you're part
of the charismatic tradition,and I'm not and I'm so excited
for us and our listeners to alllearn from each other.
It's exciting that we togethercan sit as sisters in Christ and
(09:17):
learn from one another.
Give us some background forthose who are listening and are
not familiar with more of thecharismatic ways about how the
Holy Spirit is working today.
What does that look like foryou to listen to the Spirit's
voice as you teach or studyscripture?
Dr. Holly Beers (09:39):
This for me really comes from my tradition,
as you mentioned, where peopleregularly talked about what God
said to them or what the Spiritwas prompting them to do.
So I feel like I've grown upwith that language and that got
practiced and manifested throughspiritual gifts.
So charismatics today are notjust theoretically open to
(10:01):
spiritual gifts that we hearabout in places like 1
Corinthians 12 to 14, but theyactively practice them like
first Corinthians 12 to 14, butthey actively practice them.
So so I grew up hearing peoplegive words of knowledge.
People regularly prayed forhealing and I've seen many
people get healed.
People speak in tongues often,and I have since I was a kid,
(10:23):
before I even knew what I wassupposed to be doing, you know,
it was just part of my childhoodexperience.
So I feel like that contextgave me a heightened sensitivity
to listening to the Spirit in acertain kind of way.
And when I study scripturehonestly, I regularly, as I'm
getting started, I regularlypray for myself out loud, or, if
(10:46):
I'm with a group, we pray.
We say Spirit of God.
What are you up to in this texttoday?
What were you up to in theancient world when you worked
through the human author towrite this text and then what
are you up to today?
What do you want to say to ustoday?
And then we try to listen tothat.
I listen If I'm with a group,we try to listen and we talk
(11:08):
about what we're hearing.
So in some ways it's verysimilar, I think, to what a lot
of people do when they're in aBible study or something.
They might go around the circleand talk about what God is doing
in the text or what they thinkthe text might mean for them.
So it's not that different inthat way.
But I think the naming of itand saying we're going to listen
to the spirit today, we'regoing to listen to the spirit
today, we're going to openourselves up, you know, we say
(11:30):
give us soft hearts and help usto hear, help us not to miss
what you might be trying to say.
And then we, you know, try topay attention to a prompting,
maybe, or an image that comes tomind, or a phrase or something
like that.
That's often what it looks likefor me, and when I write my
scholarship I do the same thing.
I say Spirit of God, youinspired this text and I want
(11:55):
you to inspire me to understandit well and to write about it
well so that I can help otherpeople understand the Bible in
better ways.
That's really what I feel likeI'm passionate about doing.
Ellen Krause (12:20):
That's really what I feel like I'm passionate
about doing, for is hearing fromGod and knowing what it is that
he's trying to teach us.
How do you balance listeningfor the voice of the Spirit
speaking through the text whilealso having a strong awareness
(12:42):
of the cultural differences thatwere going on, the context of
the original audience?
Tell us about that process.
Dr. Holly Beers (12:53):
Well, because of what I do for a living, those
things almost always gotogether for me, though
sometimes one of them comesfirst.
So, for example, if I'm in aNew Testament text and I know
the New Testament much betterthan I know the Old Testament
but I'm working, I'm continuallyworking on that, you know,
spending more time with the OldTestament so that I feel like I
can hear even the echoes of theOld Testament that show up in
(13:14):
the New Testament.
I want to hear those things, beable to be able to connect them
.
But often, because I know theNew Testament fairly well, when
I come to a text I already knowa lot of the historical and
cultural background to it.
So I'm coming into it with someof those pieces already in mind
.
But and then I'll say spirit ofGod, show me what, help me to
see what you want me to see.
What should I notice in thistext?
(13:40):
You know, is there part of itthat you want to use to form me
today?
That kind of thing is what I do.
And then, when I'm in the oldTestament especially, or some
texts that maybe I don't knowquite as well, I notice what I
notice, and I hear a lot ofpeople when they study the Bible
.
We don't use that language.
I notice what I notice and thenand I say you know God, how are
you trying to form me throughthis?
And sometimes that will lead toa historical or cultural
(14:01):
question where, as I read thetext, I think, oh, I wonder,
what's going on here?
This feels like it's notsomething that in our time and
place, something people would door say.
So what's going on herehistorically?
And then maybe I check acommentary to see, and once I
understand that, that alwaysdeepens my relationship with the
text and, for me at least,helps God form me more
(14:23):
powerfully.
So for me those pieces gotogether and I kind of move back
and forth, even if onesometimes comes first and the
other one comes second and theymight flip the next time around.
Ellen Krause (14:33):
Yeah, I can see how it's so important to be
praying through the process ofunderstanding God's word, and
that's something that we allneed to be doing as we're
reading the scripture.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout Colossians and Philemon,
which is your latest area ofexpertise.
(14:57):
What's one historical orculture insight about these
letters that really changed theway you understood it?
Dr. Holly Beers (15:07):
Great question.
So I'm sure I had heard itpreviously but it didn't really
sink in that Paul didn't plantthe church in Colossae until I
started working on these letters.
It's very clear that he doesn'tknow this community very well
Because we hear in Colossians1-7 that this guy named Epaphras
(15:31):
actually planted that church.
Once I started really thinkingthrough that I realized, oh my
word, Paul's kind of minimalrelationship with this church is
shaping the way he's saying allkinds of things.
In the letter to the Colossians, For example, he doesn't push
them quite as hard as he doesthe communities in some of his
other letters.
Think about how hard he pushesthe Corinthian church and
(15:52):
something like 1 Corinthians.
I mean he knows those peoplewell.
He's lived with them for abouta year and a half, day in, day
out.
He knows those people well, youknow he's lived with them for
about a year and a half, day in,day out.
So he pushes them pretty hardand there's lots of really
personal information in 1Corinthians and Paul's
critiquing them pretty directlyand we don't get that kind of
agitation or that kind ofpressure in Colossians.
(16:12):
It's a little gentler whichmakes sense.
If Paul doesn't know them verywell, he's trying to move them
forward in their discipleship,but he's really inviting them in
in a way that's much morecareful.
That just affected all kinds ofthings as I was reading the
text, because in the householdcode section, for example, where
Paul talks about husbands andwives and children and parents
and slaves and masters, he's notvery radical in terms of what
(16:37):
he's asking them to do.
A lot of what he's asking themto do would be known and
understood in their broaderculture, but he is pushing them
a little bit to change in theirrelationships with each other
because the relationships needto be formed by kingdom of God
values.
And I thought, wow, this helpsme understand Paul's whole
(16:57):
approach, his style as acommunicator.
And the reason that matters somuch is that in the letter to
Philemon he clearly knowsPhilemon very well.
This guy is his friend, theyare good buddies, they are
social peers, equals accordingto cultural standards, and so
Paul pushes Philemon much, muchharder, but he can because he
knows Philemon well.
So when we compare and contrastthose letters, we can see the
(17:20):
different approach incommunication and that's really
shaped the way I think aboutcommunicating with audiences.
I don't know very well how canI be appropriate and careful but
also push people gently intheir discipleship.
And then someone I do know verywell how can I push much harder
Because the relationship allowsfor it, and how do I allow
people who know me well to pushme much harder?
(17:42):
So that's probably one of thekey historical pieces that
really shaped my understandingof the letters.
Ellen Krause (17:50):
That's so interesting, and definitely
something that we're alwaysencouraging our listeners, is
the importance of understandingthe context of a passage, and
what you've just described hereis just so enlightening as to
how he pushed people, so tospeak, differently, and I love
(18:13):
how you apply that to us, eventoday.
I mean, there's times where weneed to be more sensitive.
And then like you said, knowingothers.
Well, it's, and that's what Iwant, right, as a strong
believer, I want someone to holdme accountable, whereas maybe
when I was a baby Christian thatyou know, there's just
(18:34):
different steps that you take asyou're growing, yes, well, how
does the theme of brotherhoodand equality in Christ
intertwine in these books?
Dr. Holly Beers (18:48):
Well, those are two main themes in these two
books.
I mean, in the letter to theColossians he calls them
brothers and sisters.
Some Bible translations willsay brothers, but their word
brother got used the way thatour word guys often gets used,
where if I say hey, guys, youknow I can use that to address a
male and female mixed group.
(19:09):
So even if your Bibletranslation just says brothers,
we need to think of that asbrothers and sisters.
Paul's calling them family,basically siblings and siblings
are social peers.
And then he uses brotherlanguage in the letter to
Philemon too.
So that's part of it.
In Colossians 3, paul has one ofhis famous verses where he says
(19:29):
here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised,
barbarian, scythian, slave orfree, but Christ is all and in
all.
You know there's a famous textlike that in Galatians as well,
and that kind of leveling out ofpeople, that kind of equality,
that vision, that image was veryrare in Paul's day, in that
(19:51):
time and place.
I mean, everybody was rankedaccording to social status and
it it was very clear Everybodyknew where everybody else ranked
.
So for Paul to level that outand say no, in Jesus, basically
we're all family, we're allequals was, was crazy and
surprising.
So what we see Paul doing inColossians with that is
(20:13):
encouraging people because theirsiblings, their family're
family and they're social peersto live in ways that make sense
in light of that.
And that gets kind ofturbocharged in the letter to
Philemon.
Because in Philemon Paul sayshey brother, hey brother in
Christ, you know this slave.
You have Onesimus.
Yeah, I want you to welcome himback, not as a slave but as a
(20:35):
brother, and nobody in Paul'sworld would have called their
slave.
If they owned one, no one wouldhave called that person a
sibling because obviously slavesrank way below masters.
But Paul's playing with thosecategories and leveling out in
an equality-based way Philemon'srelationship with his slave.
I think Philemon is Paul's mostradical letter.
(20:55):
I think Philemon is Paul's mostradical letter.
He pushes back so hard againstslavery and says no, in the
Jesus family, like we arebrothers and sisters, and that
means that you, philemon, needto take this really seriously.
So it's one thing for Philemonto have heard and I'm sure he
did hear Paul say things like oh, there's no slavery, free, or
(21:15):
Jew or Gentile or any of that,we're all one in Christ.
I'm sure Philemon had heardPaul say that, but now in the
letter to Philemon, paul'sasking Philemon to actually live
it, because now it's going toaffect his relationship with his
slave, and I just find that sopowerful.
Ellen Krause (21:33):
Yes, it sure is.
Again, we're back to thehearing versus doing yes, and he
really was putting his feet tothe fire.
Well, you know, we see inPaul's life that following
Christ was a sacrifice in a lotof ways.
Tell us about you know.
What would you say to believerswho are in a season where
(21:58):
following Jesus is coming at acost?
Dr. Holly Beers (22:05):
Yes, well, paul's life models that for us.
I mean Paul's at the heart ofkingdom of God.
You know vision, and he has alot of sacrifices he has to make
, but of course that's based onJesus.
Jesus as the inaugurator, thebringer of the kingdom of God,
paid the ultimate cost his life.
So in that way, it shouldn'tsurprise us when we have
(22:26):
sacrifices to make, when we gothrough hardships, because that
is the model Jesus actuallygives us.
As I've said, I love the bookof Acts and there's this passage
in chapter 14 where Paul andBarnabas go to encourage some of
these early churches, thesefollowers of Jesus in some of
these areas, and these are newChristians.
And in verse 22, luke tells usthat Paul and Barnabas encourage
(22:48):
these new Christians by sayingwe must go through many
hardships to enter the kingdomof God.
That's their encouragement.
I've thought about that sooften for years and years,
because what does it mean forthat to be encouraging?
Well, it's, it's realistic,it's a way to say this is part
of what it looks like to live inthe kingdom, and and we need to
(23:12):
be honest about that and talkabout that, and then do that
together in community too,because you know, he's not
telling Paul and Barnabas aren'ttelling just an individual
person that they'recommunicating that to groups of
Christians.
In the book of 1 Peter,actually, peter says that when
followers of Jesus in thechurches to whom he's writing,
he says when you're goingthrough persecution, remember
(23:35):
that this helps you identifymore closely with Jesusesus.
Like this connects you moredeeply to jesus, because he's
the one who suffered for us andI find that to be helpful to my
own life, absolutely, absolutely.
Ellen Krause (23:47):
And when you were talking, what came to my mind
was also james and how he sayswhen you encounter trials of
various kinds, count it joy, andI love that, though that count
means like over time, like we'renot going to necessarily
experience that immediately, butlater, when you have hindsight
(24:09):
vision, you can see how God usedthat experience to mold you and
shape you to become more likeChrist.
Dr. Holly Beers (24:18):
Well, and even with Jesus's own example, right,
he has to go through the hardtime and then, after that is
when he gets vindicated, afterthat is when he gets the
glorification piece, when he'sraised from the dead and then
ascends to the father.
So that gives us some kind ofmodel too.
It's not necessarily going tobe in the moment that we feel
great about it, but later Godwill show what's true, and God
(24:40):
will prove what's right.
Ellen Krause (24:42):
Absolutely, absolutely Well, holly, we've
only just sort of hit the tip ofthe iceberg here with all that
you have to offer in the workthat you're doing.
Where can listeners find outmore information about you and
your work?
Dr. Holly Beers (25:02):
listeners find out more information about you
and your work.
Oh well, in terms of myacademic work, the easiest thing
would probably be to search formy faculty page at Westmont.
If you typed in my name, HollyBeers, and then Westmont College
, I'm sure it would pop right up.
But I've also done quite a bitof teaching and preaching that's
ended up on YouTube, so thatwould be an easier, probably and
maybe more fun way.
If you want to see what kindsof books or articles I've
(25:23):
written, then go to my facultypage, but if you just want to
watch or listen to some of whatI've done, it's on YouTube.
Ellen Krause (25:30):
Awesome, okay, well, we will make sure we put
links to those in our show notes.
Before we close out, though, Ihave to take the opportunity to
ask you some of our favoritequestions here.
What Bible do you use and whattranslation is it?
Dr. Holly Beers (25:50):
My students always ask me this and they're
always disappointed when I say Iuse all the English
translations because I can alsocheck the Greek.
So since I teach people how toread the New Testament in the
original Greek, that's part ofwhat I do as my job.
So because I get to look at theGreek and help students work
(26:10):
through that, I regularlyreference English translations,
but I check a whole range, so Idon't necessarily have a
favorite English translation.
I think they're all good aslong as they're done by a
committee of people who areworking together, so it's not
just one person's opinion.
Then I think there's a good,healthy place for it in the
church.
(26:30):
You know the.
The different English Bibletranslations are aimed at
different demographics and Ithink that's okay.
I think that's a good, healthything.
So that's probably kind ofdisappointing for some of your
listeners.
I'm sorry, but that's reallywhat I do no, no, no, no, that's
okay.
Ellen Krause (26:45):
I think we're kind of thinking of, like, what's on
your bed stand, or somethinglike that.
Dr. Holly Beers (26:49):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I just I check a range.
Probably most often I check theNRSV and the ESV and the NIV
and the NLT.
I'm actually on the revisioncommittee for the New Living
Translation, the NLT, becauseall the major English
translations get revised on aregular basis.
So I've been spending more timein the NLT than I used to
(27:10):
because I'm working on it.
But I check a whole range.
Ellen Krause (27:14):
Oh, that's so awesome.
Okay, do you have any favoritejournaling supplies or?
Dr. Holly Beers (27:19):
do you do journaling?
I am not a consistent journaler, I'm an occasional journaler
and I would say I like color.
I have a whole range of markersand colored pens because for me
that's always been helpful andinformative and then when I look
back on something I can quicklysee how I was thinking about it
(27:40):
by the colors I was using andhow I organized it in that way.
So color is probably markersand pens.
That's probably my favoritetool.
Ellen Krause (27:49):
Awesome.
Okay, and lastly, what is yourfavorite app or website for
Bible study tools?
Dr. Holly Beers (27:59):
Well, I bought one called Accordance that I use
regularly in my academic work.
But for the free ones, I likeBible Gateway.
I think it's very helpful.
It gives a lot of goodresources and you can check a
big range of Englishtranslations while you're on it.
So I think that's helpful.
But my students are regularlyasking me to take a look at some
(28:19):
app they found and honestly,there are so many good ones out
there.
I just I don't.
I mean, I'm kind of unaware insome ways of all the good
resources.
So we live in a really amazingtime where we have access to so
many good options online.
Ellen Krause (28:33):
Yes, yes, we sure do.
Well, dr Beers, thank you somuch for sharing your wisdom and
your heart, your love for Jesus, with us today.
Dr. Holly Beers (28:43):
I'm happy to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Ellen Krause (28:46):
And to all of our listeners if you've ever
wondered how to hold scriptureand the spirit together in your
faith journey, I hope that todaygave you not only some answers,
but also a hunger to press intothis even more.
And so, if this conversationdid stir something in your heart
, we encourage you to check outDr Beer's commentary on
(29:10):
Colossians and Philemon.
We will have it linked in theresources in the show notes and,
as always, we hope you willwalk away from today's episode
encouraged to open your Bible,listen for God's voice and live
out your faith boldly whereverGod has placed you.
Thank you for listening andhave a blessed day.
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