January 9, 2025 • 41 mins
Engaging in Bible memorization isn't just a task, it's a transformational practice that deeply impacts our spiritual lives. Josh Summers shares powerful techniques and personal experiences that highlight the importance of internalization over simple rote memorization, emphasizing how God's word should be rooted within us.
In this podcast we talk about
• Connection between personal crisis and spiritual transformation
• acronyms for different memorization types
• Internalization versus memorization: deeper engagement with scripture
• Memory Palace technique for visual learners
• Fun methods for kids and beginners
• The power of memorized verses in overcoming life's challenges
• Incorporating memorization into daily life
Josh's links:
Book - Memorize What Matters
Free Copy of Book
Bible - Reader's Bible
Bible - Journaling Bible
App/Website - blueletterbible.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ellen Krause (00:04):
At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
Our goal is to help you delightin God's Word and thrive in
Christian living.
Each week, we talk to subjectmatter experts who broaden your
biblical understanding,encourage you in hard times and
provide life-building tips toenhance your Christian walk.
We are so glad you have joinedus.
(00:25):
All right, welcome back to theCoffee and Bible Time podcast.
This is Ellen, your host.
Sometimes, memorizing the Biblecan feel really overwhelming.
We spend hours repeating versesonly to forget them later.
(00:45):
It can be very frustrating andmakes us wonder if it's even
worth the effort.
But what if there were provenstrategies to make memorizing
scripture easier and moreeffective?
In today's episode, we'retalking with Josh Summers,
author of Memorize what Matters,a resource that has helped
(01:06):
countless people memorize largeportions of the Bible.
He'll share practicaltechniques that are backed by
science and real life experience.
Memorizing Bible verses isn'tjust about memorizing the words,
though.
It's about letting scripturetake root in our hearts and
impact every area of our lives.
(01:28):
When we let scripture memorybecome a forgotten priority, we
miss out on the transformativepower of God's word in our lives
.
Today is the day to take a steptoward that change, so tune in,
grab a notebook and let'sexplore how we can memorize
scripture with confidence andjoy.
(01:50):
Josh Summers is an entrepreneurand author who has lived and
served in Asia with his familyfor over 15 years.
From his tiny studio inThailand, he has the privilege
and responsibility of reachingover a million people each month
through his YouTube videos,podcasts and written content.
(02:13):
His most recent book, memorizewhat Matters, details his
passion for memorizing God'sword, which was born out of a
terrifying experience of beingimprisoned and interrogated for
his faith.
Please welcome Josh.
Hi, josh, nice to have you backagain.
Josh Summers (02:35):
Thank you, I really appreciate it, ellen.
Ellen Krause (02:52):
I'm so inspired by you because, after our last
talk that we had, it really didinspire me, and I'm excited that
we can continue thisconversation about helping
people understand the benefitsand really why we should be
doing it and how much it canhelp our spiritual life.
So, josh, why don't you juststart out by telling us what
(03:12):
inspired you to make Biblememorization such a core part of
your spiritual life?
Josh Summers (03:20):
Yeah, well, again, thank you so much for allowing
me to share even just this partof my story.
I know that I'd shared this acouple of years ago when we
chatted last, and I'll justbriefly kind of walk through the
fact that you know, my familymy wife and my kids and I were
in Chinaated us for a couple ofweeks, and it was probably one
of the hardest times in my life,but it was during that time
(03:49):
that they had taken everythingaway from me.
So imagine, like, what would itbe like if all of your devices
your computer, your phone, ifyour Bibles were taken away and
you had no access to any of that?
How much of God's word wouldyou still be able to come up
with?
In those moments and I actuallyhad to face that, and it was
(04:09):
quite honestly a really humblingmoment for me when I realized,
hey, I've been a Christian, I'vebeen a church going follower of
Jesus for, so you know, decades, and I was I was shocked by how
few verses I could come up with, and that is what really
stirred in my heart, this desireto decide hey, this is
something that is important tome and I really want to start
(04:33):
memorizing scripture.
And I think one of the thingsyou know, people hear that story
and it's like, oh well, I'mnever, hopefully never going to
be in that type of situation,and hopefully that's true.
But I do think that there areso many times in our lives when
we do find ourselves without theword.
You know when we're a parent ofa newborn baby just trying to
(04:55):
stay up at night and you know,get this kid to sleep, and we
need God's word, but we can'tnecessarily sit there and open
it up.
And there are so you know,whether it's driving to and from
work these type of times whenhaving access to God's word
could be so life transformativeand yet, if we don't have it
(05:16):
memorized, it would be so muchharder for us to be able to
access that word.
Ellen Krause (05:21):
Absolutely.
I was really touched by thelevel of depth that you did talk
about your experience and howterrifying it must have been to
be down in this basement andbeing interrogated in a foreign
country, because I was trying tothink in my own mind like where
(05:42):
would my mind go?
I think I would, you know, havea state of panic.
But then you must get to thispoint where, yes, like the only
thing you have is to turn to God, right, and put that type of a
situation into his hands.
And I can imagine you had maybea few things to cling on to,
(06:05):
but not as much as you wouldhave liked to have, right.
Josh Summers (06:10):
Yeah, absolutely, but I do think there is and it's
easier to look at this inhindsight but there is beauty
that God brings out of thosehard times in life.
As much as it's hard to gothrough those moments, there is,
I think, so much more that welearn about God and about our
need for God in those moments ofdesperation, in those moments
(06:32):
of really hard times that wewouldn't get if life was always
just easy and, again, benefit ofhindsight 2020.
Of hindsight 2020,.
But I do think that I'm betteroff having gone through that
situation and I'm grateful forthe Lord for taking me out of it
(06:52):
as well.
Ellen Krause (07:00):
Yes, I love that because you can see God's
faithfulness.
It doesn't feel like it whenyou're in it, but he is actually
working for it, for good, andyou can definitely see that in
this incredible book that youhave written.
You are a proponent ofdifferent types of Bible memory,
so I imagine if you'relistening to this interview,
you're probably like well, Iknow how to memorize a Bible
(07:21):
verse, but tell us about howthere are so many different
types and why using differentones is important.
Josh Summers (07:29):
Absolutely.
I think, when most of us, atleast, that have grown up in the
church or Juana or anythinglike that, we think of Bible
memory, we think of justmemorizing individual verses
John 3.16, Romans 3.23, a lot ofthese verses that most
Christians are at least familiarwith or have heard of before.
I created an acronym POINT, youknow like what's your point,
(07:51):
and it stands for passages,outlines, individual verses,
narratives or topical, andthat's what helps me remember
these different types of Biblememory and I love this because
it kind of mixes things up forme.
I love to memorize verses,larger portions of scripture, so
passages that would be chaptersor books of the Bible.
(08:14):
But I recognize that noteverybody likes to do that.
There's some people that loveindividual verses or topical.
When I think of topical, Ithink of things like the Romans
Road or if you want to memorizea number of verses that you can
have ready whenever you're goingthrough a season of depression
or a season of hurt, thosetopical verses.
But a couple of the ones that Ithink a lot of people skip over
(08:37):
that can be really, reallybeneficial are narrative or
stories.
Sometimes we think, oh, youknow, it's good to just memorize
individual verses, but you know, when it comes to interacting
with people, a lot of times ifI'm talking with somebody, you
know, just in a randomconversation on an airplane or I
(08:57):
just run into somebody, tryingto quote an individual verse is
kind of awkward.
It might not necessarily fit,but if I'm in the middle of this
I was like you know, can I tellyou a story?
There's this story in the Biblethat stories are so captivating
and there's so many greatstories that you can tell that
are just these short storiesfrom the Bible that you memorize
(09:18):
.
You know some parable thatJesus spoke or something from
the Gospel of John, these shortstories that we.
There's a whole world oforality that deals with these
short stories and then finallyoutlines One of the chapters
even in the book.
I talk through the outline ofthe Gospel of John and I think
(09:39):
there's a lot of value in beingable to say I can't necessarily
quote the whole story of Lazarusto you, but I do know for sure,
ellen, that the story ofLazarus can be found in John,
chapter 11.
And I know that because I'vekind of done this visual outline
of the whole gospel of John andit's so much fun because it can
(10:00):
be done in like five minutes.
Like you can memorize theoutline of John in five minutes
and now I can flip to, I can say, oh, jesus walking on water,
that's John, chapter six.
Or I know that Jesus wasarrested in John, chapter 18,
like being able to memorize thatoutline.
So, when it comes to memorizingthe Bible, I think that you can
have a lot of fun with it.
It's more than just, oh, I'mgoing to memorize one verse, I'm
(10:22):
going to memorize these two orthree verses.
Well, what if you were to trymemorizing the outline of a book
?
Or what if you were to tackle achapter this new year and try
something that pushes you alittle bit beyond your comfort
zone?
I think there are a lot of funways to approach memorizing
scripture.
Ellen Krause (10:42):
There most certainly are and I have to say,
when I read that outlining, itjust never even occurred to me
to do that.
But I always kind of wonderedhow does our pastor, which I
know I'm sure he's studied foryears and he knows so much but I
love that you, to be able tobring that to memory quickly and
(11:06):
easily really can help in somany different ways, Not only
with, like you said, being ableto tell the story, but also,
just as you're doing, biblestudy and finding it and being
able to flip to it quickly, andI thought it was just like such
an amazing method of being ableto do that.
(11:30):
So, josh, you also talk abouthow the word memorization you
actually prefer the wordinternalization.
Tell us what you mean by that.
Josh Summers (11:48):
Yeah, this is a conversation I've had a lot with
a friend of mine named KeithFarron, because he talks about
this same thing.
It's a focus, focus on.
I want us, you know myself, andthen I want to encourage
anybody who's listening orwatching this now to to think
about it Like we're.
We're wanting to memorize theword, not just the words, right?
So so we're going beyond justmemorizing the words, because
(12:09):
the reality is I, a lot of thetechniques that I even talk
about are stolen from the thingsthat I've seen being used in
the secular world to memorizedecks of cards or to memorize.
I've met somebody who hadmemorized a Harry Potter book
word for word.
Like you can memorize a lot ofgreat, like a lot of things you
(12:31):
can memorize, you know, just forthe sake of memorization.
But when it comes to God's word,there's obviously an ulterior
motive that we have here.
It's not to necessarilyexercise our brain, even though
that happens, and it's notnecessarily to have that you
know ready to share, even thoughthat is also a side benefit of
(12:51):
having memorized scripture toshare, even though that is also
a side benefit of havingmemorized scripture.
Memorizing scripture is aboutinternalizing God's word and
making it a part of our lives,so that when we are going
through things and you know, thescripture talks about the Holy
Spirit being able to remind usof the things that Jesus taught
One of the like.
I believe that one of the bestways that he can remind us of
(13:13):
something is if we have alreadyinternalized it or memorized it,
and that's one of the reasonswhy I think it's a subtle
mindset shift.
But I think it's important tothink about the fact that it's
not just memorization formemorization's sake.
We're doing this because wewant to meditate on God's word
and we want this to be somethingthat is rooted deep in our
(13:36):
lives.
Ellen Krause (13:38):
Absolutely.
That reminds me of when I wasyounger I memorized Psalm 23,.
But it wasn't until I wasactually older and I had done
like a study on Psalm 23 that Ireally internalized it.
And now I feel like when I say,you know, when I'm reciting it
(14:03):
to myself, in whatevercircumstances it might be, I
feel like I'm there right, LikeI've entered into the psalm
itself and it brings you closerto, I think, how God wants to
use his word.
He says it's active and alive,and that's really how it can
(14:26):
touch you so deeply.
Well, why don't we talk alittle bit about some of the
methods that you personally useto memorize?
Josh Summers (14:37):
Yeah, so I'm a little bit unique in this regard
and, I'll be honest, a lot ofwhat I have loved doing is maybe
a little bit I don't know.
It might seem challenging topeople that first hear it.
So I love what's known as thememory palace, and a memory
palace, or they call it, themind palace, is another way to
(15:01):
say it or the method of loci,something that's been used for
thousands of years, and it'sjust a great way to organize
memory.
And so, for example, I havememorized the book of Galatians,
and the book of Galatians isactually physically placed in my
home here in Thailand.
My family and I live here inThailand, and so I have chapter
(15:22):
one outside and I can literallywalk around my yard outside and
I have verses placed in specificlocations, and then I'm a very
visual learner and so I putimages in those locations that
help me to remember the wordsfor that verse.
And so now you know, as I'mwalking through my yard, I can
(15:43):
be reciting Galatians, chapterone, and then I walk up towards
the entrance.
That's where chapter two is allthe way up into our master
bedroom, which holds chapter six, is all the way up into our
master bedroom, which holdschapter six.
It's a technique that takes alittle bit of practice, but it's
really something that isavailable to anybody that's
willing to give it a try andbelieve it or not.
(16:05):
A lot of times, when we're evenjust reciting scriptures, we're
going on a walk, right?
I've known a lot of people thatlike to take a walk around
their neighborhood and they'lldo that same circuit every
single day and if they recitethe same things they
inadvertently create kind ofthis mind palace where every
time they turn that cornerthey're usually at a specific
verse or every time they passthis house they can recite a
(16:27):
certain place.
So a lot of it is just givingyour mind something to hold onto
.
We call it memory hooks, and youcan do a memory hook through
song, you can do a memory hookthrough visuals.
I love that location memoryhook because I think our brains
are very God designed our brainsto remember location.
Well, I remember my childhoodhouse.
(16:48):
I can still walk through it and, ellen, I don't know about you,
if you can still kind of inyour mind's eye, walk through
the house that you grew up in.
It's amazing how well weremember that stuff and how much
it sticks, and so taking andhooking information onto.
That can be really reallyeffective.
Ellen Krause (17:07):
That's incredible.
So when a time comes, thenlet's say you're laying in a
hospital bed and you can't evenhold a Bible, but then you can
bring back to your mind yougoing on, that walk even though
you can't, but it triggers thememory of those verses, right.
Josh Summers (17:30):
Exactly.
Yeah, I can make that journeyagain and have scripture be a
part of that journey.
Ellen Krause (17:37):
That is just so cool.
I was also just intrigued inthe book, you know you use the
example of actors.
You know they memorize hundredsof lines for various different
things and they have techniquesand things to use.
And you also talked about signlanguage.
(17:59):
There's just there's so manydifferent possibilities and
literally I'm not even kiddingyou.
This morning I was in thebathroom and I was reciting a
verse and all of a sudden I seemyself in the book.
You talked about how to do asign language for Lord with the
and I like just did it and I waslike, oh my goodness, like I
(18:23):
only read about it once and Ithought it was so cool.
Are there any other techniquesthat, in particular, you find
for young people, like maybehelping your children, are
especially good for them?
Josh Summers (18:44):
Yes, absolutely.
I think, especially for thosethat may have just heard what I
talked about with the mindpalace and thought, oh my gosh,
that is, I would never do that.
That's just not for me.
One of the things that I loveand I learned this from an actor
friend is what I call the firstletter technique.
So a lot of us like to take andcreate flashcards and we'll put
(19:04):
, let's say, the reference,let's say second Timothy 3.16.
And then on the back we'll putall scripture is God breed and
is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training up in
righteousness.
Right, and we'll have that onthere.
And what tends to happen,whether we're adult or a kid, is
that we'll start and we'll tryto memorize, and in the process
of memorization we might fumbleover a word or we'll get lost
(19:31):
and so we'll flip that card over.
And the problem is is that whenwe do that we let our brain
cheat and we give our brain allof the information and suddenly
it doesn't have to work toremember the verse that you've
memorized.
So a trick that I learned frommy friend that I love using it
and it's amazingly effective andkids love this is if you were
to take and just write out thefirst letter of every single
(19:51):
word in that verse and put thaton the backside of your memory
card, if that's what you'redoing right, and even the
process of writing it out can bea lot of fun.
So, instead of all scripture isGod breathed, it would be
A-S-I-G-B right All scripture isGod breathed.
And you write that up.
So what's happening is and it'sfun for kids because it feels
(20:12):
like they're decoding a littlemessage or they have like this
fun little secret message thatthey can share somewhere because
it doesn't make sense.
I haven't even had a t-shirtthat has all of 2 Timothy 3.16,
just the first letters.
And people come up and they'relike, what in the world does
that even mean?
And it's a great conversationstarter because I can tell them.
(20:32):
But when you're going throughthe process of review now, when
you flip over, you're not givingyour brain all of the
information.
Your brain is still forced torecall it.
It's given a little hint.
You know that what the nextword starts with a B or the next
word starts with an A, but itstill like forces your brain to
(20:52):
remember what that word is.
So it's a great middle stepbetween, okay, I'm memorizing it
and then, before you can jumpto okay, I've completely got
this memorized, I don't have tolook anywhere.
That middle step of a firstletter can be effective, and
it's, in my experience, equallyeffective for both adults and
kids.
Ellen Krause (21:11):
I love that technique too.
It's awesome.
We actually came out with theselittle tiny mini notebooks that
we use exactly for that, andthen you can just fold it up,
stick it in your pocket, yourpurse, your car, wherever, and
you have a little bit of time.
Open it up and it is.
It's tremendously effective.
(21:34):
The one thing I think, josh,that I personally struggle with
and I don't know if it's just meor other people do too, but I
struggle with remembering theaddress.
Is that what you call it?
Like the actual location in theBible?
Do you have any tips on thatpart of it?
Josh Summers (21:57):
Yeah, Well, one of the first things, because I
have a lot of people ask me that.
One of the first things I liketo remind most people and I have
to be very careful how I saythis but the chapters and verses
are not inspired right.
Those were added later on.
And if you can recite a verseand even if you can tell me
(22:18):
generally where it's at oh, thisis in John, I think, maybe
chapter three or four If you'rereciting God's word and you
don't remember the exact chapterand verse, I don't know about
you, ellen, but I still thinkthat's a win.
So my message in all of that isjust to give yourself grace.
It's okay if you don't exactlyhave the chapter and verse, but
(22:44):
if that is something that'simportant to you and I generally
do like being able to knowexactly which chapter and verse,
but if that is something that'simportant to you and I
generally do like being able toknow exactly which chapter and
verse, I will say if you'reusing like a mind palace type
thing for me, I separatechapters based on location and
so that makes it a little easierfor me to know where that's at.
But I think, generally speaking, if you can find and this is
(23:06):
something that I've actuallycreated a little spreadsheet for
myself, like number pictureassociations, right.
So, for example, the number 23for me, because I love
basketball, I always associatethat with Michael Jordan, right
23, michael Jordan, they're kindof synonymous.
Maybe you associate it with,you know, lebron James or
(23:27):
something.
Ellen Krause (23:27):
But Nope, michael Jordan, it is.
Hey, I'm from Chicago area, sothere you go.
Josh Summers (23:34):
Okay, so you got Michael Jordan, for me the
number 19,.
My wife's birthday is on the19th, so in my mind 19 is a
picture of my wife.
And so if I'm memorizing averse, and let's say it's verse,
it happens to be verse 23, andI want to remember that it's
verse 23,.
I might somehow visualize someaspect of that verse that has to
(24:01):
do with basketball or MichaelJordan or something like that,
and at first that might seemsilly and and it will.
Sometimes it's the silly, thecrazy, the absurd things that
our brain really sticks.
It sticks to our brain easier.
But I promise you, over timethose silly things will fall
away and the the reference willstick.
(24:23):
But being able to create thoseimages like numbers by
themselves are difficult.
But if you can find ways toturn those numbers into images
and then stick that to whateveryou're memorizing, sometimes
that can be a lot easier.
Ellen Krause (24:40):
All right, I'm going to have to definitely do
some work on that, but Iappreciate the grace, that's for
sure.
Oh my, so one of the things youknow a lot of people do Bible
memorization.
But they get really frustratedwhen you know a year from now
(25:00):
they can't remember what theyhad memorized a year ago.
Tell us about.
How do you kind of get overthat?
Josh Summers (25:12):
Yeah, I mean there's a couple of things to
share about this.
I actually have one friend.
He's a pastor in North Carolina, his name is Dr Andy Davis.
He's actually written anotherbook on Bible memory and one of
the things that he does that Ithink is really fascinating is
he actually memorizes and thenintentionally lets it go Like he
(25:32):
intentionally says I'm, I'm not, I'm okay if I can't recite
this a year from now.
And that may seem odd to mostpeople.
It was really odd to me when Ifirst heard it, but it kind of
takes in this to count the ideathat if we internalize God's
word, we can also trust that Godcan use the Holy Spirit to
(25:54):
bring that out.
Even if we can't regurgitate itourselves when we want to, I
believe that the Holy Spirit canpull those things that we've
memorized even years ago, evenfrom childhood that Psalm 23
passage that you memorized,ellen.
The Holy Spirit can pull thosethings that we've memorized even
years ago, even from childhoodthat Psalm 23 passage that you
memorized, ellen.
The Holy Spirit can pull thatout when necessary.
So even if you've memorizedsomething last year and you have
(26:17):
quote unquote forgotten itright now again I just want to
preach this message of grace,don't.
It was not worthless.
It was not a time wasted tohave memorized God's word,
because I still believe that theHoly Spirit can use that that
you have internalized.
That being said, if that'ssomething that you want to keep
(26:40):
at the top of your mind and I amthat way I want to be able to
recite the passages that I'vememorized.
There are some, actually.
There's there's science behindthis.
It's called the forgettingcurve.
When you first memorizesomething right, let's say it's
at a hundred percent but veryquickly that goes down.
You, you know, we experiencedthis in high school and in
(27:02):
college, where we're just tryingto cram things in, we can cram
it in for a very short period oftime, but that forgetting curve
is very steep.
But what science has shown isthat if we are able to review
that piece of information atspaced intervals, that rate of
decline for the memory becomesless and less steep over time.
(27:25):
So, in other words, if Imemorize a piece, a passage, a
verse, and then I review it anhour later and then I review it
the next day and you know Iforgot a couple words, that's
okay.
So then I'll review it a dayafter that.
But as I prove to my brain thatit has been memorized for that
period of time, then I lengthenthat period of time.
So an example for me would be Imemorized the book of James back
(27:49):
in high school and it's one ofthese books that I have recited
at this point hundreds, maybeeven a thousand times, and so I
don't have to review that everysingle day.
I can review the book of Jameslike maybe two or three times a
year.
But I'm in the middle of firstPeter.
Right now I'm trying to work myway through chapter three and I
(28:11):
still need to go back andreview chapter one and two.
One probably once a week,chapter two probably two or
three times a week.
But being able to find a way tospace out that repetition is
the best way to ensure that youcan turn something that is
short-term memory into long-termmemory, and you can do that
(28:32):
manually through differentjournals.
There are apps that allow youto do that spaced repetition.
There's so many different toolsthat you can use, but utilizing
that spaced repetition iswhat's really going to help you
remember this in the long run.
Ellen Krause (28:47):
Excellent, excellent advice and definitely
something that we should all putto use.
I think in some respects I kindof do that not intentionally,
but because I kind of am morescatterbrained to do it
sometimes and then forget aboutit for a little bit and then
(29:08):
come back to it.
So who knew it was actuallyhelping?
Exactly wrap things up here,tell us how memorizing scripture
(29:29):
has influenced the way you seethe world and how you approach
challenges.
Josh Summers (29:34):
Yeah, I think just being a little raw and
transparent here, helen, theselast couple of weeks have been
actually a legit bit challengefor me.
Like sometimes I don't knowabout you or your daughters
being online can be a challengefor me because it feels like I
have.
I do have challenging weeks,just like everybody else does,
(29:57):
and then I've got to jump ontothese podcasts and onto YouTube
and and smile and, you know, bepositive, and life isn't always
that way.
And I think you know, one ofthe things that I'm learning is
that there are a lot of thingsin life, especially the
Christian life, where there arethings I know I should believe
(30:17):
right, I know I should believethat I am God's handiwork, made
in his image.
And yet the core belief like ifyou were to, if I'm really
digging down, talking with acounselor the core belief is
that I'm, I don't, I don't thinkof myself that way and I repeat
(30:38):
this lie to myself that I amnot good enough, that I'm a
fraud, that someday everyone'sgoing to figure this out and I'm
going to be exposed for theworld to see.
Like that's a legit fear ofmine, and a lot of times it's
those lies that we repeat toourselves that that is our core
belief, even if we tellourselves no, I believe what the
(31:00):
Bible says.
I've found for me thatmeditation on scripture is one
of the only ways that I've beenable to combat those lies that I
have taught myself to believeover time.
And having that scripture notjust reading it during quiet
(31:21):
times, but having it so that Ican meditate on it anytime,
anywhere.
And I can look at Ephesians2.20 and I can say I am God's
handiwork.
I am God's handiwork, andrepeat that verse over and over
again, or you know any myriad ofother verses that represent a
(31:42):
truth that God wants us to knowthat it's easy to just read over
.
It's so easy and I've done thistime and again just to read
over or to hear spoken in asermon, but to have that
internalized in a way thatallows us to constantly meditate
(32:03):
on it.
I mean, that's what it talksabout in Psal Psalm to meditate
on his word day and night.
One of the things that was veryimpactful for me was you know,
we talk.
I grew up hearing Joshua 1.9,be strong and courageous, and
thinking, okay, I've got to bestrong and courageous.
And oftentimes we don't combinethat with the verse that comes
(32:26):
before it, where Joshua iscommanded to meditate day and
night on the word and I thinkthat is what comes before we can
be strong and courageous in ourfaith is do we have that
foundation, those verses that wecan meditate on and live by and
to combat the lies that atleast I'm constantly telling
(32:48):
myself, unfortunately?
Ellen Krause (32:51):
And you're not alone, I can assure you of that,
and I really appreciate yourtransparency because you're
absolutely right, we have hardtimes and when you do, you're
constantly in the public and youwant to be encouraging to other
(33:11):
people but at the same time,recognizing that you know we
have challenges, and seeing youjust sort of admit that, just
sort of admit that, but at thesame time to see how God can
just turn that around and andyou sharing that with us and and
(33:32):
our listeners, just gives usincredible hope.
That and encouragement that wethere's so much to be had in in
Bible memorization andinternalization.
So thank you so much, josh, forsharing this and there's so
(33:54):
much more in this book.
I want to say there are somebooks that I get that I consider
like this book is going in mylibrary as an absolute resource,
and this is one of them becauseit has so many great ideas, and
if you're struggling withmemorizing it in one way,
(34:16):
there's another way.
There's, you know, for visuallearners, there's ones for
audible learners, there's.
So there's so many differentways that you can approach this
and I think your book isabsolutely incredible, Josh.
Where can people go to find outmore information about you and
the book?
Josh Summers (34:35):
Well, first of all , that was so encouraging to
have you say that, so thank youvery much.
It was a lot of fun to put allthat together.
For those that are interested,ellen, I was debating whether or
not to do this, and I reallywould.
My goal has never been to sella ton of books, and so what I
(34:56):
would love to do, if you don'tmind, is people can go to
memorizewhatmatterscom slash I'mjust going to make it coffee.
So memorizewhatmatterscom iswhere you can find out more
about the book.
But if you go to memorize whatmatterscom slash coffee this
just for your podcast I am happyto give anybody a digital copy
of the book for free.
Um, because my whole, the heartbehind what I'm doing is I just
(35:19):
want to equip people tomemorize God's word, and if you
don't have the finances to buy abook, I don't want that to be
the thing that stops you frombeing equipped with these
techniques and tools.
So if you go tomemorizewhatmatterscom slash
coffee, you're welcome to justdownload the digital copy for
free, or if you want to purchaseit, just go to
memorizewhatmatterscom.
Ellen Krause (35:41):
Oh, that's so kind of you, wow, okay, listeners,
we will have that link in ourshow notes.
Josh Summers (35:59):
You are definitely going to want to do that, for
sure.
Well, josh, before we go, Iwant person, just because that's
what I grew up in, but one ofmy favorites is the Reader's
Bible.
Have you ever come across aReader's Bible?
Ellen Krause (36:11):
No.
Josh Summers (36:12):
It's essentially a Bible that doesn't have chapter
and verse markers, so it allowsme to sit down and read through
the book of 1 Peter as a letterthat it was intended to be just
one single letter, and so formy own personal study time I
love just kind of that reader'sBible that doesn't break it all
(36:34):
up into these sections but it'sjust like, hey, this is the flow
of the text and it's really alot of fun for me.
Ellen Krause (36:41):
Okay, that's really cool.
Do you have any favoritejournaling supplies that you
like to use to enhance yourBible study experience?
Josh Summers (36:51):
Well, I'm not as much of a journaler as I didn't
used to be.
One of the things that I havedone is I do have actually a
separate Bible that is ajournaling Bible.
I'm sure that you'm sure thatyou're you or your daughters
have, you know, one of thesejournaling Bibles.
Um, I have loved, especiallywith memorizing scripture,
having space for me to writedown what, uh what passage like
(37:16):
a cross-reference that comes tomy mind.
So it's actually the, the book,the Bible that I have actually
doesn't have any crossreferences.
Ellen Krause (37:23):
It just has space, uh, on the sides for journaling
and that's where I write in myown cross-references and that's
been really rewarding for mebecause I love making those
connections between differentpassages and scriptures I'm
reading yes, you mentioned thatin the book and I thought that
that was really, reallyfascinating how, as you're
(37:45):
memorizing, let's say, a newpassage, and all of a sudden in
your mind, you can see how itconnects to several other
passages that you had memorized.
That's incredible.
All right, Josh.
Lastly, what is your favoriteapp or website for Bible study
tools?
Josh Summers (38:04):
Yeah, I am very well, I think I'm old school.
I don't know how old schoolthis is, but when I need to look
at like, really do anythingdeep dive, I always go to
blueletterbiblecom.
I think they've got a lot ofgreat tools.
It allows me to do some youknow, just basic etymology of
different words and look, tryingto understand where things come
from, looking at differenttranslations.
(38:25):
I think the Blue Letter Bibleit's free too, and that's one of
the best resources that I'vecome across.
Ellen Krause (38:33):
Awesome, yes, that is a great tool.
We'll make sure we put a linkin the show notes for that as
well.
Well, Josh, thank you so muchfor joining us today and sharing
all these incredible strategiesfor memorizing scripture.
It's really inspiring to hearhow practical tools combined
with dedication because it doestake work can truly transform
(38:55):
the way we engage with God'sword.
So, thank you so much.
Josh Summers (38:59):
Thank you for having me.
Ellen Krause (39:02):
And for our listeners.
If you have found value intoday's episode, we would
absolutely love it andappreciate it so much if you
could share it with a friend whomight be encouraged by these
insights as well.
And be sure to pick up a copyof Josh's book Memorize what
Matters.
You will not be disappointed.
(39:23):
We love you all.
We appreciate you listening.
Have a blessed day.
At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
Our goal is to help you delightin God's Word and thrive in
Christian living.
Each week, we talk to subjectmatter experts who broaden your
biblical understanding,encourage you in hard times and
provide life-building tips toenhance your Christian walk.
We are so glad you have joinedus.
(00:25):
All right, welcome back to theCoffee and Bible Time podcast.
This is Ellen, your host.
Sometimes, memorizing the Biblecan feel really overwhelming.
We spend hours repeating versesonly to forget them later.
(00:45):
It can be very frustrating andmakes us wonder if it's even
worth the effort.
But what if there were provenstrategies to make memorizing
scripture easier and moreeffective?
In today's episode, we'retalking with Josh Summers,
author of Memorize what Matters,a resource that has helped
(01:06):
countless people memorize largeportions of the Bible.
He'll share practicaltechniques that are backed by
science and real life experience.
Memorizing Bible verses isn'tjust about memorizing the words,
though.
It's about letting scripturetake root in our hearts and
impact every area of our lives.
(01:28):
When we let scripture memorybecome a forgotten priority, we
miss out on the transformativepower of God's word in our lives
.
Today is the day to take a steptoward that change, so tune in,
grab a notebook and let'sexplore how we can memorize
scripture with confidence andjoy.
(01:50):
Josh Summers is an entrepreneurand author who has lived and
served in Asia with his familyfor over 15 years.
From his tiny studio inThailand, he has the privilege
and responsibility of reachingover a million people each month
through his YouTube videos,podcasts and written content.
(02:13):
His most recent book, memorizewhat Matters, details his
passion for memorizing God'sword, which was born out of a
terrifying experience of beingimprisoned and interrogated for
his faith.
Please welcome Josh.
Hi, josh, nice to have you backagain.
Josh Summers (02:35):
Thank you, I really appreciate it, ellen.
Ellen Krause (02:52):
I'm so inspired by you because, after our last
talk that we had, it really didinspire me, and I'm excited that
we can continue thisconversation about helping
people understand the benefitsand really why we should be
doing it and how much it canhelp our spiritual life.
So, josh, why don't you juststart out by telling us what
(03:12):
inspired you to make Biblememorization such a core part of
your spiritual life?
Josh Summers (03:20):
Yeah, well, again, thank you so much for allowing
me to share even just this partof my story.
I know that I'd shared this acouple of years ago when we
chatted last, and I'll justbriefly kind of walk through the
fact that you know, my familymy wife and my kids and I were
in Chinaated us for a couple ofweeks, and it was probably one
of the hardest times in my life,but it was during that time
(03:49):
that they had taken everythingaway from me.
So imagine, like, what would itbe like if all of your devices
your computer, your phone, ifyour Bibles were taken away and
you had no access to any of that?
How much of God's word wouldyou still be able to come up
with?
In those moments and I actuallyhad to face that, and it was
(04:09):
quite honestly a really humblingmoment for me when I realized,
hey, I've been a Christian, I'vebeen a church going follower of
Jesus for, so you know, decades, and I was I was shocked by how
few verses I could come up with, and that is what really
stirred in my heart, this desireto decide hey, this is
something that is important tome and I really want to start
(04:33):
memorizing scripture.
And I think one of the thingsyou know, people hear that story
and it's like, oh well, I'mnever, hopefully never going to
be in that type of situation,and hopefully that's true.
But I do think that there areso many times in our lives when
we do find ourselves without theword.
You know when we're a parent ofa newborn baby just trying to
(04:55):
stay up at night and you know,get this kid to sleep, and we
need God's word, but we can'tnecessarily sit there and open
it up.
And there are so you know,whether it's driving to and from
work these type of times whenhaving access to God's word
could be so life transformativeand yet, if we don't have it
(05:16):
memorized, it would be so muchharder for us to be able to
access that word.
Ellen Krause (05:21):
Absolutely.
I was really touched by thelevel of depth that you did talk
about your experience and howterrifying it must have been to
be down in this basement andbeing interrogated in a foreign
country, because I was trying tothink in my own mind like where
(05:42):
would my mind go?
I think I would, you know, havea state of panic.
But then you must get to thispoint where, yes, like the only
thing you have is to turn to God, right, and put that type of a
situation into his hands.
And I can imagine you had maybea few things to cling on to,
(06:05):
but not as much as you wouldhave liked to have, right.
Josh Summers (06:10):
Yeah, absolutely, but I do think there is and it's
easier to look at this inhindsight but there is beauty
that God brings out of thosehard times in life.
As much as it's hard to gothrough those moments, there is,
I think, so much more that welearn about God and about our
need for God in those moments ofdesperation, in those moments
(06:32):
of really hard times that wewouldn't get if life was always
just easy and, again, benefit ofhindsight 2020.
Of hindsight 2020,.
But I do think that I'm betteroff having gone through that
situation and I'm grateful forthe Lord for taking me out of it
(06:52):
as well.
Ellen Krause (07:00):
Yes, I love that because you can see God's
faithfulness.
It doesn't feel like it whenyou're in it, but he is actually
working for it, for good, andyou can definitely see that in
this incredible book that youhave written.
You are a proponent ofdifferent types of Bible memory,
so I imagine if you'relistening to this interview,
you're probably like well, Iknow how to memorize a Bible
(07:21):
verse, but tell us about howthere are so many different
types and why using differentones is important.
Josh Summers (07:29):
Absolutely.
I think, when most of us, atleast, that have grown up in the
church or Juana or anythinglike that, we think of Bible
memory, we think of justmemorizing individual verses
John 3.16, Romans 3.23, a lot ofthese verses that most
Christians are at least familiarwith or have heard of before.
I created an acronym POINT, youknow like what's your point,
(07:51):
and it stands for passages,outlines, individual verses,
narratives or topical, andthat's what helps me remember
these different types of Biblememory and I love this because
it kind of mixes things up forme.
I love to memorize verses,larger portions of scripture, so
passages that would be chaptersor books of the Bible.
(08:14):
But I recognize that noteverybody likes to do that.
There's some people that loveindividual verses or topical.
When I think of topical, Ithink of things like the Romans
Road or if you want to memorizea number of verses that you can
have ready whenever you're goingthrough a season of depression
or a season of hurt, thosetopical verses.
But a couple of the ones that Ithink a lot of people skip over
(08:37):
that can be really, reallybeneficial are narrative or
stories.
Sometimes we think, oh, youknow, it's good to just memorize
individual verses, but you know, when it comes to interacting
with people, a lot of times ifI'm talking with somebody, you
know, just in a randomconversation on an airplane or I
(08:57):
just run into somebody, tryingto quote an individual verse is
kind of awkward.
It might not necessarily fit,but if I'm in the middle of this
I was like you know, can I tellyou a story?
There's this story in the Biblethat stories are so captivating
and there's so many greatstories that you can tell that
are just these short storiesfrom the Bible that you memorize
(09:18):
.
You know some parable thatJesus spoke or something from
the Gospel of John, these shortstories that we.
There's a whole world oforality that deals with these
short stories and then finallyoutlines One of the chapters
even in the book.
I talk through the outline ofthe Gospel of John and I think
(09:39):
there's a lot of value in beingable to say I can't necessarily
quote the whole story of Lazarusto you, but I do know for sure,
ellen, that the story ofLazarus can be found in John,
chapter 11.
And I know that because I'vekind of done this visual outline
of the whole gospel of John andit's so much fun because it can
(10:00):
be done in like five minutes.
Like you can memorize theoutline of John in five minutes
and now I can flip to, I can say, oh, jesus walking on water,
that's John, chapter six.
Or I know that Jesus wasarrested in John, chapter 18,
like being able to memorize thatoutline.
So, when it comes to memorizingthe Bible, I think that you can
have a lot of fun with it.
It's more than just, oh, I'mgoing to memorize one verse, I'm
(10:22):
going to memorize these two orthree verses.
Well, what if you were to trymemorizing the outline of a book
?
Or what if you were to tackle achapter this new year and try
something that pushes you alittle bit beyond your comfort
zone?
I think there are a lot of funways to approach memorizing
scripture.
Ellen Krause (10:42):
There most certainly are and I have to say,
when I read that outlining, itjust never even occurred to me
to do that.
But I always kind of wonderedhow does our pastor, which I
know I'm sure he's studied foryears and he knows so much but I
love that you, to be able tobring that to memory quickly and
(11:06):
easily really can help in somany different ways, Not only
with, like you said, being ableto tell the story, but also,
just as you're doing, biblestudy and finding it and being
able to flip to it quickly, andI thought it was just like such
an amazing method of being ableto do that.
(11:30):
So, josh, you also talk abouthow the word memorization you
actually prefer the wordinternalization.
Tell us what you mean by that.
Josh Summers (11:48):
Yeah, this is a conversation I've had a lot with
a friend of mine named KeithFarron, because he talks about
this same thing.
It's a focus, focus on.
I want us, you know myself, andthen I want to encourage
anybody who's listening orwatching this now to to think
about it Like we're.
We're wanting to memorize theword, not just the words, right?
So so we're going beyond justmemorizing the words, because
(12:09):
the reality is I, a lot of thetechniques that I even talk
about are stolen from the thingsthat I've seen being used in
the secular world to memorizedecks of cards or to memorize.
I've met somebody who hadmemorized a Harry Potter book
word for word.
Like you can memorize a lot ofgreat, like a lot of things you
(12:31):
can memorize, you know, just forthe sake of memorization.
But when it comes to God's word,there's obviously an ulterior
motive that we have here.
It's not to necessarilyexercise our brain, even though
that happens, and it's notnecessarily to have that you
know ready to share, even thoughthat is also a side benefit of
(12:51):
having memorized scripture toshare, even though that is also
a side benefit of havingmemorized scripture.
Memorizing scripture is aboutinternalizing God's word and
making it a part of our lives,so that when we are going
through things and you know, thescripture talks about the Holy
Spirit being able to remind usof the things that Jesus taught
One of the like.
I believe that one of the bestways that he can remind us of
(13:13):
something is if we have alreadyinternalized it or memorized it,
and that's one of the reasonswhy I think it's a subtle
mindset shift.
But I think it's important tothink about the fact that it's
not just memorization formemorization's sake.
We're doing this because wewant to meditate on God's word
and we want this to be somethingthat is rooted deep in our
(13:36):
lives.
Ellen Krause (13:38):
Absolutely.
That reminds me of when I wasyounger I memorized Psalm 23,.
But it wasn't until I wasactually older and I had done
like a study on Psalm 23 that Ireally internalized it.
And now I feel like when I say,you know, when I'm reciting it
(14:03):
to myself, in whatevercircumstances it might be, I
feel like I'm there right, LikeI've entered into the psalm
itself and it brings you closerto, I think, how God wants to
use his word.
He says it's active and alive,and that's really how it can
(14:26):
touch you so deeply.
Well, why don't we talk alittle bit about some of the
methods that you personally useto memorize?
Josh Summers (14:37):
Yeah, so I'm a little bit unique in this regard
and, I'll be honest, a lot ofwhat I have loved doing is maybe
a little bit I don't know.
It might seem challenging topeople that first hear it.
So I love what's known as thememory palace, and a memory
palace, or they call it, themind palace, is another way to
(15:01):
say it or the method of loci,something that's been used for
thousands of years, and it'sjust a great way to organize
memory.
And so, for example, I havememorized the book of Galatians,
and the book of Galatians isactually physically placed in my
home here in Thailand.
My family and I live here inThailand, and so I have chapter
(15:22):
one outside and I can literallywalk around my yard outside and
I have verses placed in specificlocations, and then I'm a very
visual learner and so I putimages in those locations that
help me to remember the wordsfor that verse.
And so now you know, as I'mwalking through my yard, I can
(15:43):
be reciting Galatians, chapterone, and then I walk up towards
the entrance.
That's where chapter two is allthe way up into our master
bedroom, which holds chapter six, is all the way up into our
master bedroom, which holdschapter six.
It's a technique that takes alittle bit of practice, but it's
really something that isavailable to anybody that's
willing to give it a try andbelieve it or not.
(16:05):
A lot of times, when we're evenjust reciting scriptures, we're
going on a walk, right?
I've known a lot of people thatlike to take a walk around
their neighborhood and they'lldo that same circuit every
single day and if they recitethe same things they
inadvertently create kind ofthis mind palace where every
time they turn that cornerthey're usually at a specific
verse or every time they passthis house they can recite a
(16:27):
certain place.
So a lot of it is just givingyour mind something to hold onto
.
We call it memory hooks, and youcan do a memory hook through
song, you can do a memory hookthrough visuals.
I love that location memoryhook because I think our brains
are very God designed our brainsto remember location.
Well, I remember my childhoodhouse.
(16:48):
I can still walk through it and, ellen, I don't know about you,
if you can still kind of inyour mind's eye, walk through
the house that you grew up in.
It's amazing how well weremember that stuff and how much
it sticks, and so taking andhooking information onto.
That can be really reallyeffective.
Ellen Krause (17:07):
That's incredible.
So when a time comes, thenlet's say you're laying in a
hospital bed and you can't evenhold a Bible, but then you can
bring back to your mind yougoing on, that walk even though
you can't, but it triggers thememory of those verses, right.
Josh Summers (17:30):
Exactly.
Yeah, I can make that journeyagain and have scripture be a
part of that journey.
Ellen Krause (17:37):
That is just so cool.
I was also just intrigued inthe book, you know you use the
example of actors.
You know they memorize hundredsof lines for various different
things and they have techniquesand things to use.
And you also talked about signlanguage.
(17:59):
There's just there's so manydifferent possibilities and
literally I'm not even kiddingyou.
This morning I was in thebathroom and I was reciting a
verse and all of a sudden I seemyself in the book.
You talked about how to do asign language for Lord with the
and I like just did it and I waslike, oh my goodness, like I
(18:23):
only read about it once and Ithought it was so cool.
Are there any other techniquesthat, in particular, you find
for young people, like maybehelping your children, are
especially good for them?
Josh Summers (18:44):
Yes, absolutely.
I think, especially for thosethat may have just heard what I
talked about with the mindpalace and thought, oh my gosh,
that is, I would never do that.
That's just not for me.
One of the things that I loveand I learned this from an actor
friend is what I call the firstletter technique.
So a lot of us like to take andcreate flashcards and we'll put
(19:04):
, let's say, the reference,let's say second Timothy 3.16.
And then on the back we'll putall scripture is God breed and
is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training up in
righteousness.
Right, and we'll have that onthere.
And what tends to happen,whether we're adult or a kid, is
that we'll start and we'll tryto memorize, and in the process
of memorization we might fumbleover a word or we'll get lost
(19:31):
and so we'll flip that card over.
And the problem is is that whenwe do that we let our brain
cheat and we give our brain allof the information and suddenly
it doesn't have to work toremember the verse that you've
memorized.
So a trick that I learned frommy friend that I love using it
and it's amazingly effective andkids love this is if you were
to take and just write out thefirst letter of every single
(19:51):
word in that verse and put thaton the backside of your memory
card, if that's what you'redoing right, and even the
process of writing it out can bea lot of fun.
So, instead of all scripture isGod breathed, it would be
A-S-I-G-B right All scripture isGod breathed.
And you write that up.
So what's happening is and it'sfun for kids because it feels
(20:12):
like they're decoding a littlemessage or they have like this
fun little secret message thatthey can share somewhere because
it doesn't make sense.
I haven't even had a t-shirtthat has all of 2 Timothy 3.16,
just the first letters.
And people come up and they'relike, what in the world does
that even mean?
And it's a great conversationstarter because I can tell them.
(20:32):
But when you're going throughthe process of review now, when
you flip over, you're not givingyour brain all of the
information.
Your brain is still forced torecall it.
It's given a little hint.
You know that what the nextword starts with a B or the next
word starts with an A, but itstill like forces your brain to
(20:52):
remember what that word is.
So it's a great middle stepbetween, okay, I'm memorizing it
and then, before you can jumpto okay, I've completely got
this memorized, I don't have tolook anywhere.
That middle step of a firstletter can be effective, and
it's, in my experience, equallyeffective for both adults and
kids.
Ellen Krause (21:11):
I love that technique too.
It's awesome.
We actually came out with theselittle tiny mini notebooks that
we use exactly for that, andthen you can just fold it up,
stick it in your pocket, yourpurse, your car, wherever, and
you have a little bit of time.
Open it up and it is.
It's tremendously effective.
(21:34):
The one thing I think, josh,that I personally struggle with
and I don't know if it's just meor other people do too, but I
struggle with remembering theaddress.
Is that what you call it?
Like the actual location in theBible?
Do you have any tips on thatpart of it?
Josh Summers (21:57):
Yeah, Well, one of the first things, because I
have a lot of people ask me that.
One of the first things I liketo remind most people and I have
to be very careful how I saythis but the chapters and verses
are not inspired right.
Those were added later on.
And if you can recite a verseand even if you can tell me
(22:18):
generally where it's at oh, thisis in John, I think, maybe
chapter three or four If you'rereciting God's word and you
don't remember the exact chapterand verse, I don't know about
you, ellen, but I still thinkthat's a win.
So my message in all of that isjust to give yourself grace.
It's okay if you don't exactlyhave the chapter and verse, but
(22:44):
if that is something that'simportant to you and I generally
do like being able to knowexactly which chapter and verse,
but if that is something that'simportant to you and I
generally do like being able toknow exactly which chapter and
verse, I will say if you'reusing like a mind palace type
thing for me, I separatechapters based on location and
so that makes it a little easierfor me to know where that's at.
But I think, generally speaking, if you can find and this is
(23:06):
something that I've actuallycreated a little spreadsheet for
myself, like number pictureassociations, right.
So, for example, the number 23for me, because I love
basketball, I always associatethat with Michael Jordan, right
23, michael Jordan, they're kindof synonymous.
Maybe you associate it with,you know, lebron James or
(23:27):
something.
Ellen Krause (23:27):
But Nope, michael Jordan, it is.
Hey, I'm from Chicago area, sothere you go.
Josh Summers (23:34):
Okay, so you got Michael Jordan, for me the
number 19,.
My wife's birthday is on the19th, so in my mind 19 is a
picture of my wife.
And so if I'm memorizing averse, and let's say it's verse,
it happens to be verse 23, andI want to remember that it's
verse 23,.
I might somehow visualize someaspect of that verse that has to
(24:01):
do with basketball or MichaelJordan or something like that,
and at first that might seemsilly and and it will.
Sometimes it's the silly, thecrazy, the absurd things that
our brain really sticks.
It sticks to our brain easier.
But I promise you, over timethose silly things will fall
away and the the reference willstick.
(24:23):
But being able to create thoseimages like numbers by
themselves are difficult.
But if you can find ways toturn those numbers into images
and then stick that to whateveryou're memorizing, sometimes
that can be a lot easier.
Ellen Krause (24:40):
All right, I'm going to have to definitely do
some work on that, but Iappreciate the grace, that's for
sure.
Oh my, so one of the things youknow a lot of people do Bible
memorization.
But they get really frustratedwhen you know a year from now
(25:00):
they can't remember what theyhad memorized a year ago.
Tell us about.
How do you kind of get overthat?
Josh Summers (25:12):
Yeah, I mean there's a couple of things to
share about this.
I actually have one friend.
He's a pastor in North Carolina, his name is Dr Andy Davis.
He's actually written anotherbook on Bible memory and one of
the things that he does that Ithink is really fascinating is
he actually memorizes and thenintentionally lets it go Like he
(25:32):
intentionally says I'm, I'm not, I'm okay if I can't recite
this a year from now.
And that may seem odd to mostpeople.
It was really odd to me when Ifirst heard it, but it kind of
takes in this to count the ideathat if we internalize God's
word, we can also trust that Godcan use the Holy Spirit to
(25:54):
bring that out.
Even if we can't regurgitate itourselves when we want to, I
believe that the Holy Spirit canpull those things that we've
memorized even years ago, evenfrom childhood that Psalm 23
passage that you memorized,ellen.
The Holy Spirit can pull thosethings that we've memorized even
years ago, even from childhoodthat Psalm 23 passage that you
memorized, ellen.
The Holy Spirit can pull thatout when necessary.
So even if you've memorizedsomething last year and you have
(26:17):
quote unquote forgotten itright now again I just want to
preach this message of grace,don't.
It was not worthless.
It was not a time wasted tohave memorized God's word,
because I still believe that theHoly Spirit can use that that
you have internalized.
That being said, if that'ssomething that you want to keep
(26:40):
at the top of your mind and I amthat way I want to be able to
recite the passages that I'vememorized.
There are some, actually.
There's there's science behindthis.
It's called the forgettingcurve.
When you first memorizesomething right, let's say it's
at a hundred percent but veryquickly that goes down.
You, you know, we experiencedthis in high school and in
(27:02):
college, where we're just tryingto cram things in, we can cram
it in for a very short period oftime, but that forgetting curve
is very steep.
But what science has shown isthat if we are able to review
that piece of information atspaced intervals, that rate of
decline for the memory becomesless and less steep over time.
(27:25):
So, in other words, if Imemorize a piece, a passage, a
verse, and then I review it anhour later and then I review it
the next day and you know Iforgot a couple words, that's
okay.
So then I'll review it a dayafter that.
But as I prove to my brain thatit has been memorized for that
period of time, then I lengthenthat period of time.
So an example for me would be Imemorized the book of James back
(27:49):
in high school and it's one ofthese books that I have recited
at this point hundreds, maybeeven a thousand times, and so I
don't have to review that everysingle day.
I can review the book of Jameslike maybe two or three times a
year.
But I'm in the middle of firstPeter.
Right now I'm trying to work myway through chapter three and I
(28:11):
still need to go back andreview chapter one and two.
One probably once a week,chapter two probably two or
three times a week.
But being able to find a way tospace out that repetition is
the best way to ensure that youcan turn something that is
short-term memory into long-termmemory, and you can do that
(28:32):
manually through differentjournals.
There are apps that allow youto do that spaced repetition.
There's so many different toolsthat you can use, but utilizing
that spaced repetition iswhat's really going to help you
remember this in the long run.
Ellen Krause (28:47):
Excellent, excellent advice and definitely
something that we should all putto use.
I think in some respects I kindof do that not intentionally,
but because I kind of am morescatterbrained to do it
sometimes and then forget aboutit for a little bit and then
(29:08):
come back to it.
So who knew it was actuallyhelping?
Exactly wrap things up here,tell us how memorizing scripture
(29:29):
has influenced the way you seethe world and how you approach
challenges.
Josh Summers (29:34):
Yeah, I think just being a little raw and
transparent here, helen, theselast couple of weeks have been
actually a legit bit challengefor me.
Like sometimes I don't knowabout you or your daughters
being online can be a challengefor me because it feels like I
have.
I do have challenging weeks,just like everybody else does,
(29:57):
and then I've got to jump ontothese podcasts and onto YouTube
and and smile and, you know, bepositive, and life isn't always
that way.
And I think you know, one ofthe things that I'm learning is
that there are a lot of thingsin life, especially the
Christian life, where there arethings I know I should believe
(30:17):
right, I know I should believethat I am God's handiwork, made
in his image.
And yet the core belief like ifyou were to, if I'm really
digging down, talking with acounselor the core belief is
that I'm, I don't, I don't thinkof myself that way and I repeat
(30:38):
this lie to myself that I amnot good enough, that I'm a
fraud, that someday everyone'sgoing to figure this out and I'm
going to be exposed for theworld to see.
Like that's a legit fear ofmine, and a lot of times it's
those lies that we repeat toourselves that that is our core
belief, even if we tellourselves no, I believe what the
(31:00):
Bible says.
I've found for me thatmeditation on scripture is one
of the only ways that I've beenable to combat those lies that I
have taught myself to believeover time.
And having that scripture notjust reading it during quiet
(31:21):
times, but having it so that Ican meditate on it anytime,
anywhere.
And I can look at Ephesians2.20 and I can say I am God's
handiwork.
I am God's handiwork, andrepeat that verse over and over
again, or you know any myriad ofother verses that represent a
(31:42):
truth that God wants us to knowthat it's easy to just read over
.
It's so easy and I've done thistime and again just to read
over or to hear spoken in asermon, but to have that
internalized in a way thatallows us to constantly meditate
(32:03):
on it.
I mean, that's what it talksabout in Psal Psalm to meditate
on his word day and night.
One of the things that was veryimpactful for me was you know,
we talk.
I grew up hearing Joshua 1.9,be strong and courageous, and
thinking, okay, I've got to bestrong and courageous.
And oftentimes we don't combinethat with the verse that comes
(32:26):
before it, where Joshua iscommanded to meditate day and
night on the word and I thinkthat is what comes before we can
be strong and courageous in ourfaith is do we have that
foundation, those verses that wecan meditate on and live by and
to combat the lies that atleast I'm constantly telling
(32:48):
myself, unfortunately?
Ellen Krause (32:51):
And you're not alone, I can assure you of that,
and I really appreciate yourtransparency because you're
absolutely right, we have hardtimes and when you do, you're
constantly in the public and youwant to be encouraging to other
(33:11):
people but at the same time,recognizing that you know we
have challenges, and seeing youjust sort of admit that, just
sort of admit that, but at thesame time to see how God can
just turn that around and andyou sharing that with us and and
(33:32):
our listeners, just gives usincredible hope.
That and encouragement that wethere's so much to be had in in
Bible memorization andinternalization.
So thank you so much, josh, forsharing this and there's so
(33:54):
much more in this book.
I want to say there are somebooks that I get that I consider
like this book is going in mylibrary as an absolute resource,
and this is one of them becauseit has so many great ideas, and
if you're struggling withmemorizing it in one way,
(34:16):
there's another way.
There's, you know, for visuallearners, there's ones for
audible learners, there's.
So there's so many differentways that you can approach this
and I think your book isabsolutely incredible, Josh.
Where can people go to find outmore information about you and
the book?
Josh Summers (34:35):
Well, first of all , that was so encouraging to
have you say that, so thank youvery much.
It was a lot of fun to put allthat together.
For those that are interested,ellen, I was debating whether or
not to do this, and I reallywould.
My goal has never been to sella ton of books, and so what I
(34:56):
would love to do, if you don'tmind, is people can go to
memorizewhatmatterscom slash I'mjust going to make it coffee.
So memorizewhatmatterscom iswhere you can find out more
about the book.
But if you go to memorize whatmatterscom slash coffee this
just for your podcast I am happyto give anybody a digital copy
of the book for free.
Um, because my whole, the heartbehind what I'm doing is I just
(35:19):
want to equip people tomemorize God's word, and if you
don't have the finances to buy abook, I don't want that to be
the thing that stops you frombeing equipped with these
techniques and tools.
So if you go tomemorizewhatmatterscom slash
coffee, you're welcome to justdownload the digital copy for
free, or if you want to purchaseit, just go to
memorizewhatmatterscom.
Ellen Krause (35:41):
Oh, that's so kind of you, wow, okay, listeners,
we will have that link in ourshow notes.
Josh Summers (35:59):
You are definitely going to want to do that, for
sure.
Well, josh, before we go, Iwant person, just because that's
what I grew up in, but one ofmy favorites is the Reader's
Bible.
Have you ever come across aReader's Bible?
Ellen Krause (36:11):
No.
Josh Summers (36:12):
It's essentially a Bible that doesn't have chapter
and verse markers, so it allowsme to sit down and read through
the book of 1 Peter as a letterthat it was intended to be just
one single letter, and so formy own personal study time I
love just kind of that reader'sBible that doesn't break it all
(36:34):
up into these sections but it'sjust like, hey, this is the flow
of the text and it's really alot of fun for me.
Ellen Krause (36:41):
Okay, that's really cool.
Do you have any favoritejournaling supplies that you
like to use to enhance yourBible study experience?
Josh Summers (36:51):
Well, I'm not as much of a journaler as I didn't
used to be.
One of the things that I havedone is I do have actually a
separate Bible that is ajournaling Bible.
I'm sure that you'm sure thatyou're you or your daughters
have, you know, one of thesejournaling Bibles.
Um, I have loved, especiallywith memorizing scripture,
having space for me to writedown what, uh what passage like
(37:16):
a cross-reference that comes tomy mind.
So it's actually the, the book,the Bible that I have actually
doesn't have any crossreferences.
Ellen Krause (37:23):
It just has space, uh, on the sides for journaling
and that's where I write in myown cross-references and that's
been really rewarding for mebecause I love making those
connections between differentpassages and scriptures I'm
reading yes, you mentioned thatin the book and I thought that
that was really, reallyfascinating how, as you're
(37:45):
memorizing, let's say, a newpassage, and all of a sudden in
your mind, you can see how itconnects to several other
passages that you had memorized.
That's incredible.
All right, Josh.
Lastly, what is your favoriteapp or website for Bible study
tools?
Josh Summers (38:04):
Yeah, I am very well, I think I'm old school.
I don't know how old schoolthis is, but when I need to look
at like, really do anythingdeep dive, I always go to
blueletterbiblecom.
I think they've got a lot ofgreat tools.
It allows me to do some youknow, just basic etymology of
different words and look, tryingto understand where things come
from, looking at differenttranslations.
(38:25):
I think the Blue Letter Bibleit's free too, and that's one of
the best resources that I'vecome across.
Ellen Krause (38:33):
Awesome, yes, that is a great tool.
We'll make sure we put a linkin the show notes for that as
well.
Well, Josh, thank you so muchfor joining us today and sharing
all these incredible strategiesfor memorizing scripture.
It's really inspiring to hearhow practical tools combined
with dedication because it doestake work can truly transform
(38:55):
the way we engage with God'sword.
So, thank you so much.
Josh Summers (38:59):
Thank you for having me.
Ellen Krause (39:02):
And for our listeners.
If you have found value intoday's episode, we would
absolutely love it andappreciate it so much if you
could share it with a friend whomight be encouraged by these
insights as well.
And be sure to pick up a copyof Josh's book Memorize what
Matters.
You will not be disappointed.
(39:23):
We love you all.
We appreciate you listening.
Have a blessed day.
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