June 5, 2025 • 39 mins
Perfectionism can feel holy—but it’s keeping you trapped. In this episode, Ellen sits down with guest Bethany Broderick to talk about the hidden struggle of perfectionism in the Christian life. Together, they open up about their battles with inner critics, shame cycles, and the pressure to “get it all right.”
But there’s good news: God never asked us to be perfect—He invites us to be free. 💛
Join us as we explore how Scripture breaks the chains of performance and offers us something better: grace, surrender, and real identity in Christ.
Scriptures referenced:
- 1 Peter 1:16
- Hebrews 10
- Colossians 1:16-17
- Philippians 2:13
Perfected: Trading Shame and Striving for Wholeness in Christ
About Bethany:
Website | Instagram
Bethany's Favorite Bible Study Supplies:
ESV Illuminated Bible | ESV Scripture Journals | Blue Letter Bible
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ellen Krause (00:04):
At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
Our goal is to help you delightin God's Word and thrive in
Christian living.
Each week we talk to subjectmatter experts who broaden your
biblical understanding,encourage you in hard times and
provide life-building tips toenhance your Christian walk.
We are so glad you have joinedus.
(00:25):
Welcome back to the Coffee andBible Time podcast.
This is Ellen, your host.
In today's episode.
We are talking aboutperfectionism and as Christians
we know that we are saved byGod's grace through faith in his
(00:46):
son, jesus.
But so often many of us feeldisappointed that we just aren't
good enough for God.
Maybe you feel like you don'tpray enough or attend church
enough or serve enough or stayup on your Bible reading plan.
Serve enough or stay up on yourBible reading plan, whatever
(01:08):
that looks like for you.
If you've ever felt like Godwould love you more if you were
more perfect for him, thisepisode is for you.
Our guest today is someone whohas not only walked this road
herself, but who has a gift forspeaking into it with both truth
and tenderness.
Bethany Broderick is an author,speaker and professor whose
(01:28):
writing has been featured by theGospel Coalition Risen,
motherhood Journey Women,christian Parenting and more.
She lives in Birmingham,Alabama, with her husband and
three young children.
Bethany has been open about herpersonal struggle with
perfectionism and how it hasboth challenged and shaped her
(01:50):
walk with Christ.
She is here today to help uslearn how to spot legalism,
practical ways that we can rootout our identity in Christ and
not in other people's approval,and how to get out of the cycle
of striving and shame.
So, bethany, we are so gladthat you are here.
Thank you for joining us.
Bethany Broderick (02:12):
Yeah, I'm so excited to be with you today.
Ellen Krause (02:15):
Well, I just want to start this conversation by
saying we are on the sameplaying field here, because I
definitely have a similarstruggle like that, so I think
that we're going to share a lotof commonalities here.
But why don't we start out justby you telling us a little bit
(02:36):
about what struggle you've hadwith perfectionism and what that
has looked like in your ownlife?
Bethany Broderick (02:44):
and what that has looked like in your own
life?
Yeah, I was.
God blessed me with a familyand a church and a community
that loved me from a young ageand preached the gospel to me
from a young age, and I'm really, really thankful for all the
ways that they poured in to myspiritual life and gave me so
much biblical knowledge and asolid foundation life and gave
(03:05):
me so much biblical knowledgeand a solid foundation.
But unfortunately, even at ayoung age, satan began twisting
some of God's word to where Istarted focusing more on God's
commands and how I could be goodfor him, rather than the
goodness of God and what he haddone in me and for me.
And so even I can even rememberfrom the youngest age, like
(03:27):
wanting to please my parents,wanting to please my Sunday
school teachers and, as I gotolder, wanting all my friends to
accept me and think that I wasgood and perfect, and that even
reached into my relationshipwith God, like you said, that I
thought God would love me more,that he was more pleased with me
if I could do more for him, andso it was.
(03:49):
I mean, for as long as I canremember, that has been one of
the biggest struggles in my life, feeling like it was up to me
to make people approve me, tolove me, and that really came
kind of to a climax in mymarriage when I got married.
You know, there's a lot of waysthat we can hide our
imperfections from those aroundus, from friends or even from
(04:11):
parents, because you know youcan go to your bedroom and just
like keep those parts you knowhidden away.
But in marriage, like they'rewith you 24-7, like you were
sharing, you know, a bedroomwith someone, you were sharing a
life and a home, and so some ofthose imperfections that I had
worked so hard to concealbecause I thought that if anyone
knew about them they wouldn'tlove me, they wouldn't accept me
(04:33):
those were now coming to lightand it was really in those early
years of marriage I wasconfronted with how I was
believing lies about how Godloved me, how my husband would
love me, and really God began meon a journey to start seeing
myself and seeing Christ for whohe really is.
Ellen Krause (04:55):
Bethany, thank you so much for just being honest
and vulnerable.
I can completely relate to that.
I think so many listeners alsoare going to be able to resonate
with what you just shared, andthat is definitely a hard
struggle because it's just, it'sconstant and it can be in many
facets, not just in ourrelationship with God but, like
(05:18):
you said, even people approvalas well.
Well, how would you say thatimpacted your walk with Jesus?
Bethany Broderick (05:28):
Yeah, I definitely felt that how much
God loved me each day was basedon how much I did for him.
So if I woke up I had myperfect quiet time.
I checked off my Bible readingplan, I prayed in certain ways
Then like obviously God waspleased with me that day, but on
the days that I didn't do myquiet time I overslept or I just
(05:51):
didn't feel like it and Iskipped my quiet time.
Or like maybe I prayed but Iknew my heart really wasn't in
it.
Then I thought that God must bedisappointed in me, that he is
some, like you know, divine,hasty judge up there with a
clipboard checking off each dayto make sure that I'd done all
these things so that by the endof the day he could say whether
or not I had earned his love andhis affection and his delight.
(06:15):
Because I knew for sure that Iwas saved and that Christ's
blood had covered my salvationand that I was getting to go to
heaven.
But I didn't know if God heaven.
But I didn't know if God likedme.
I didn't know if God delightedme.
I knew he had to love me, but Ididn't know if he wanted to
spend time with me, especiallywhen I messed up so much and so
(06:39):
I really began hiding myselffrom God.
So I would kind of like Adamand Eve did in the garden they
put together this fig leafcovering and they hid from God
because they were ashamed oftheir sin.
I would do the same thing of Iwould kind of hide parts of
myself from God or not want tospend time with him when I knew
that I had messed up, and so itreally.
(07:01):
It separated me from God in away that he never wanted to be
separated from me, that Christhad made a way for me to draw
near with assurance of faith,but instead I was so stuck in my
shame and my striving that Icouldn't see how God would want
to be with me.
Ellen Krause (07:30):
You know, it's sobering to hear how the enemy
uses perfectionism to start toreshape how our relationship
with God is, with him, how hesees us and, like you said, it's
twisted, which is that that'snot how God sees it.
Well, what made you realizethat this was something that you
began to be passionate aboutand want to talk about and share
in your ministry?
Bethany Broderick (07:51):
Yeah, one of the most difficult things about
this struggle is that it oftenincludes the lie that not only
do we have to be perfect, butwe're on our own in our striving
for perfection.
That everyone else must have itall together At least that's
what I perfection.
That everyone else must have itall together At least that's
what I assumed.
That everyone else had theirChristian walk all together.
Everyone else didn't strugglewith the same sins and doubts
(08:11):
that I did, and because I wasalone I couldn't share with
other people.
And that is a lie straight fromthe enemy himself that we are
separated not only from God butfrom God's people.
And so as I began kind ofwalking this road of freedom in
this area, god gave me some verysweet sisters in Christ and
(08:31):
some mentors to help me confessmy areas of sin, confess my
doubts, confess my struggles andthen bear my burden in that.
And I finally realized thatmaybe each of our struggles is a
little different, but we allstruggle.
We all are needing dailyreminders of God's grace and
love for us.
And so, as I started writingmore publicly, I realized that I
(08:55):
wanted other women to know thatthey were not alone Like I.
Like as you shared that youresonate so much with this, and
as I began sharing my storythrough my newsletter and
different articles and my blog,I was shocked with how many
women struggled with this, likewomen even I knew in person and
I'm like how have we allstruggled with this?
And no one has been able to havethe courage to step forward and
(09:19):
say, like this is a lie, likewhat we are all living according
to is a lie and it is not thegoodness that God has planned
for us.
I really wanted to step forwardand say, like identify these
lies, bring them to the light sothat together you know, not
just on your own, but togetherwith other brothers and sisters
in Christ we can start to walkin freedom from this, that we
(09:40):
can start living according tothe truth.
Ellen Krause (09:43):
Absolutely, and I just love how God can take our
personal struggles and use themas a ministry to others, and
that's what you've done sobeautifully, bethany, and
bravely.
Well, let's focus onunderstanding the problem.
Why do you think striving andshame are such persistent
(10:05):
struggles, even in Christiancircles, among those who do have
this true understanding of whatgrace is?
Bethany Broderick (10:14):
I think we've allowed some of the ideals of
our Western culture to kind ofseep into the church.
So our Western culture, youknow, values independence and in
fact it it values individualism, this ability to you know, pick
yourself up by your ownbootstraps and do it all, do it
(10:35):
by yourself and do it perfectlyLike that is what our culture
values.
And really, if you get down toit, it says that you culture
really says that you are onlyvalued for as much as you can
produce, as much as you can do.
And so we have allowed thoselies to infiltrate the church
and our church culture.
Really, in the way I see thiscoming out through legalism and
(10:59):
that sounds like a big word, anda lot of us associate legalism
with the belief that we have towork for our salvation.
And I think most of us would youknow, like you said earlier,
would believe that, yes, we aresaved by grace, through faith in
Christ.
We are not saved by our works.
So we might say that, but wewould also, the way we're living
(11:19):
out, show that we are believingthat God's approval for us is
based on our work.
So, yes, christ did that in thepast, but now it's up to me to
carry that salvation all the wayuntil we reach eternity.
So we've taken that pullyourself up by your bootstraps
and now we're doing that in theChristian life, like, christ has
given me this gift and it's allup to me to make sure that I
(11:41):
don't drop it, that I don't letgo, that I please him until I
reach heaven.
And so I think it's really thatindividualism, that
do-it-yourself mentality which,yes, can make really hard
workers can create a lot ofprogress, but at the expense of
our souls, at the expense of nottrusting Christ's grace day in
(12:04):
and day out.
Ellen Krause (12:06):
I appreciate how you put that, and I agree that
it's just not something thatgets talked about enough and we
have here we have this knowledgethat God saved me, but it's
it's almost some, also somepsychological factor that comes
in because it pervades all of.
I mean, perfectionism is kindof at least for myself something
(12:30):
that affected my whole life, oryou know what I'm saying, and
then it would be make sense thatit would also go into this area
of my life, and so I love thatwe're sort of rooting this out,
talking about it.
When it comes to that cycle ofperfectionism and shame, I've
(12:54):
heard people cite scripture like1 Peter 1.16 that says be holy
as I am holy, and those types ofpassages.
We start to get really nervousbecause we know we can't be holy
and perfect.
How would you explain yourmessage to someone who's really
cautious of becoming lax intheir faith but yet has this
(13:17):
fear of not being enough?
Bethany Broderick (13:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
I really feel like I have swungboth ways.
I have for the most of life,been that legalist,
perfectionist, but there wereseasons when I just really
struggled with depression andanxiety and was like, well, I
can't be perfect, so I'm justgoing to give up altogether and
I'm just going to not even tryto have my quiet time, I'm not
(13:41):
going to do anything because Ican't do it perfectly.
And that is not freedom either.
Perfectly and like that doesn't.
That is not freedom either.
Like there has to be this, thisgospel balance between both
works and faith.
And we see that in, I think,with our union with Christ.
And so you know that passagethat you quote that says that be
holy because I am holy.
(14:02):
And yes, we cannot be holy inour own efforts, in our own
human flesh, but the beauty ofthe gospel is that Jesus didn't
just give us salvation, he gaveus himself.
Like salvation is an ongoinggift in our life.
We were saved once and for all,but Christ also now lives in us
(14:26):
and we are in Christ and he isworking to make us holy, as he
is holy, that's.
The difference is that thecommands that were given in
scripture are not given to us sothat we can do them on our own.
We are given us those commandsthat we can know how the spirit
is shaping us to become morelike Christ.
(14:47):
And so I think that is where wehave to have a right perspective
of our works and grace, andthat both are provided to us.
Through Christ, he gives us thegrace that covers our sin and
he gives us grace to help uslive free from that sin.
Because when he gave ussalvation, like we are already
declared holy, we are declaredrighteous, like when God looks
(15:09):
at us, he sees everything thatChrist has, like he sees in us,
he sees Christ's righteousness,he sees Christ's holiness.
He loves us because we are inChrist and we cannot lose that.
And then now, between every day, between the day we are saved
and the day we see Christ faceto face, he's going to make us
more and more, help us to liveout that holiness and
righteousness.
Ellen Krause (15:30):
And praise God.
That that's the case for sure.
I know in my own life that I'veheard passages like that and it
does seem kind of scary.
But then also, as you mentioned, it's almost like I want to be
like one of those old cashregisters that when you press
(15:53):
the button it went ching likereally loud.
And as soon as I'm having thattype of a thought, like oh, I
blew it again today, God, likeyou know, a little cash register
would be like ding, ding, dingand say that message that you
just said, that God already paidthe price for that and how he
(16:14):
sees us is so differently thanhow we see ourselves, which,
thankfully, that's such a goodthing.
Well, bethany, let's talk aboutsome practical advice that we
can give our listeners.
In your experience, what aresome subtle signs that someone
may be caught in a cycle ofself-righteousness or
(16:37):
self-condemnation, even if theydon't realize it?
Bethany Broderick (16:41):
Yeah, I think our emotions are a really
helpful indicator of what'sgoing on in our heart.
Emotions are a really helpfulindicator of what's going on in
our heart.
I know for me even now, like Ididn't write this book because
I've completely conquered thatcycle, but because I am still
struggling with it, and so thereare times where I can feel in
my body that I'm feeling veryanxious, or maybe my heart's
(17:03):
just really tight and I'mfeeling gripped by shame, or I'm
just nervous or stressed out,and so, like all these different
emotions, I find, if reallytight and I'm feeling gripped by
shame, or I'm just nervous orstressed out, and so, like all
these different emotions, I findif I stop and I ask myself like
why, why am I feeling this way?
Like what is going on?
And so a lot of times, like,for example, yesterday, I was
feeling very stressed outbecause I have a lot to do.
We have a very this is a veryunusual week for our family.
(17:25):
We have a lot of moving parts,a lot of different travel and
stuff, and I just startedfeeling anxious about it and I
was like, okay, okay, why am Ifeeling anxious?
Like what lie am I believing?
That is making me feel this way, and I realized, like I was
believing the lie thateverything this week is under is
in my control, that like it'sup to me to make sure that
(17:46):
everyone gets where they need togo, that everyone travels
safely, that all these unknownfactors are figured out, that is
up to me to have that knowledge.
And I was like that's not true.
That is a lie that says that Ihave to do it all and be in
control.
But the truth is that Christ isthe one who holds all things
together, including me,including my family, including
(18:07):
my schedule, and so I can laydown the lie that it's up to me
and instead live according tothe truth that it is Christ who
holds all things together andChrist who is working in me for
his good pleasure.
And so I think it begins bytaking a look at those emotions
and getting to the root of whyam I feeling this way, what lies
(18:28):
might be at the root of them,and then getting in God's word
and exploring what truths combatthis lies.
And like you said that thingabout the cash register.
I love that image, but it is adaily mental fight to take
captive those thoughts thatoppose Christ and the truth of
Christ and submit them to himand instead choose to believe
(18:50):
and walk in truth.
And I don't always feel thosetruths.
Like yesterday, I still feltlike I should be the one doing
it all to make sure our family'sschedule and our time this week
is executed perfectly.
But I can choose like no, I'mgoing to surrender that anxiety
and trust that God is going totake care of us, even though I
don't know what'm going tosurrender that anxiety and trust
that God is going to take careof us, even though I don't know
what's going to happen, and Iwill have to do that today,
(19:11):
probably at some time.
I'll have to do that tomorrowof constantly renewing my mind
according to the truth of Christ.
Ellen Krause (19:19):
Thank you for sharing that, bethany.
Sometimes I feel like when weget so caught up in those
moments that you're describingthat, it almost takes like a tap
on the shoulder to remind uslike no, you don't have to take
on all that responsibility for aperfectly executed week for
(19:41):
yourself and your whole family.
Because when we have this typeof a mindset like that's really
what you believe, it's almostlike you need, like you know, a
little poke that says hold on,oh, you don't, let's see what it
really should look like.
Well, how can someone tell whenthey're excusing sin versus
(20:05):
when they're being legalistic?
Because that might be astruggle as well.
Bethany Broderick (20:11):
That's a good question and I think that you
know it's both legalism andexcusing sin, or the big word is
license.
So, like both of those, takeour focus and point them inward.
So legalism says that I can doit all on my own and I can do it
perfectly.
License says I can't do it allon my own, so I'm not going to
(20:33):
try at all.
And so the focus of both ofthose is looking inward, it's
navel gazing and it's focusingon what we can or can't do.
And so the antidote to both ofthose is looking to Christ, is
lifting our eyes off ourselvesand looking to Christ, the
pioneer and the perfecter of ourfaith.
So if you are falling intoexcusing sin, of saying it
(20:57):
doesn't matter, our holinessdoes matter, but it doesn't
matter to the point of like wehave to do it on our own.
Our desire for holiness shouldmake us look to Christ and see
what he is doing, to look at hisholiness and behold him and
then pray that the spirit in uswould help us become more like
Christ.
And I also think that what canhelp with both sides of that
(21:19):
legalism and license is invitingyour community into that
struggle, because sometimes wecan't tell, sometimes I can't
tell when the good thing thatI'm trying to do I'm actually
doing because I want thisperson's approval, or sometimes
when I'm like, oh well, I'm notgoing to worry about that
because I can't do it perfectlyanyway, when really I'm just not
(21:39):
wanting to walk in obedienceand so having someone, a sister
in Christ who you trust, who canbe that person, to tap you on
the shoulder and say, you know,remind you of that truth Like
this is not what Christ says.
This may, you know, feel goodin the moment, but this is not
the truth.
And so that is really helpfulfor me and I've had, I've had
(21:59):
dear sisters.
Help me when I've struggledwith both sides.
You know, help me.
Hebrews 10 says to spur oneanother on to love and good
deeds.
Ellen Krause (22:07):
Like both of those , that's such a mature and
biblical way to think it throughand really just so necessary
and I can't underemphasize aswell having those people in your
life that will call you outBecause that's how you're going
to grow, that's, you know, whenyou get out of a repeated
(22:32):
pattern and way of thinking.
So it might sting in the moment, but it's actually helping you
so much in the long term.
Bethany Broderick (22:42):
Absolutely.
Ellen Krause (22:43):
Bethany, it can be easy for resting in Christ to
become a vague or clichedconcept to us.
What does relying on grace looklike in your everyday life?
Bethany Broderick (22:56):
That is a great question and I think it's
still one that I that the way itlooks in my life changes
according to the season, youknow the time of year, like
what's going on in my workschedule and in our family
schedule, but I think ultimatelyit comes back to resting in
that identity in Christ andknowing that who we are in him.
(23:21):
And so every day I have to atthe very beginning of my day,
even if I don't have that, youknow that, quote unquote
picturesque quiet time where I'msitting in the Word for an hour
with a hot cup of coffee.
That doesn't always happen.
This morning it didn't happenLike I got up and I immediately
had to hop in the shower and getgoing on our day.
And it was just a few momentsin the shower where I could
already feel my mind spinning,trying to piece together what
(23:43):
today would look like.
I'm like no, no, no.
I'm going to stop now and I'mgoing to remember who Christ is
and I'm going to think about hischaracter for a minute and then
think about what that means forme.
And I know I keep saying it's abattle of the mind, but I truly
think so much of this happensin our mind and if we could take
control of our thought patterns, that it would transform the
(24:05):
way we live, because so many ofus believe that resting is just
another activity that we have todo.
That does not fit into ourschedule, when really resting in
Christ begins with how we seeourselves in relationship to Him
.
And so I think that's, for me,is just drawing my mind back to
Christ.
And even you know, I tried tohave these moments, you know,
kind of midday maybe, rightafter lunch, before I start my
(24:27):
afternoon tasks, or right beforebefore bed, where I just kind
of try to check in, like this isnot like a long time.
I check in.
I'm like, am I right now whatI'm doing or what I've just done
?
Like, did I do that out of myidentity in Christ, out of what
he is doing in me, or was Ireverting back to trying to
strive in my own effort?
Is there anything I feelashamed of right now that I need
(24:47):
to confess to him?
So it's just constantly comingback to him, not in these big
ways, not in like thesehour-long times in scripture.
Those are great, but, you see,like tiny moments where we're
checking in and that's what itmeans to abide in Christ, to
stay connected with him.
Like if I only talked to myhusband for 30 minutes a day, we
would not have a great you knowrelationship.
(25:09):
But I text him, you know, atthis little point, when this
thing happens.
Or you know, we have a chat atdinnertime and then we may spend
you know chat for five moreminutes after bedtime.
And we have all these momentswhere we're reconnecting.
And he knows what's going on inmy day and I know what's going
on in his day and it's the samething with Christ, like what's
(25:32):
going on in his day and it's thesame thing with Christ, like
constantly coming back to himand repeatedly giving him those
lies and believing his truth,surrendering our burdens to him,
asking for him to help us, andit's that constant, ongoing in
the little ways that that's,that's what it looks like and
it's hard to remind ourselves ofthat, but we can even pray and
ask him help me to remember tocome to you and to rest in you,
and he delights in answeringthat prayer.
Ellen Krause (25:49):
He absolutely does .
And for me, the prayer partit's just so crucial because we
get into cycles of feelingdisappointed and then it's
important to come to God.
And I feel the most refreshedwhen I've taken time to pray,
(26:09):
and maybe that is in the showerand you're turning it over to
God or you're driving to work,but you're taking that moment to
pray to God, to ask him to sortof reroute you in his daily
grace and help you each step ofthe way, every time it comes up.
And that's the beauty of prayeris that we can pray anytime,
(26:32):
anywhere, any place, and God isalways there.
Bethany Broderick (26:36):
And I think for me, for so long I believed I
had to have these perfectprayers.
This goes back to thatperfectionism.
So anytime I prayed, it had tocover that old school acronym
acts.
It had to have adoration,confession, thanksgiving,
supplication.
It needed to be in a certainposition and it needed to go on
for a certain time.
It had to have certain language.
And so there was so muchperfectionism surrounding my
(26:57):
prayer life that it really was ahindrance to me coming before
him, because I'm like, why wouldI come before him with this
when I have this other burden ofdoing it perfectly?
And so, instead of when we knowthat we don't have to approach
him with these fancy words orthis very perfectly formed
prayer, we can just come to himand say help, yes, I don't see
(27:18):
what you're doing here.
God, like this makes me angry.
And like knowing that heaccepts that prayer or I, I'm
doubting right now, god, thatyou were good enough to walk me
through this.
He wants that prayer, like wecan come to him with one word,
one sentence, standing up, likeyou said, in the car, driving in
the shower, like he delights in.
However, we want to come beforehim and we don't have to have
(27:39):
this perfect prayer or thisperfect all of our emotions
sorted out.
He wants us to come to him justas we are, and that is how he
can work in our lives, how wecan open ourselves up to him.
Ellen Krause (27:51):
That's so important.
Yes, for each one of us to beable to do that regularly and
sort of defeat that self-doubt,that self-condemnation that
comes in Bethany.
Do you have any other tangibleways that you'd like to share
that you've learned to root youridentity in Jesus rather than
(28:11):
in your performance or approval?
Bethany Broderick (28:16):
You know, yeah, I was thinking earlier
about when you said that youneed those like taps on the
shoulder to kind of point youback, and I, for me, I'm a very
visual learner and I need somevisual reminders throughout my
day.
And so, um, like when I wasreally struggling with this, I
would write down like verses orstatements about what Christ has
(28:37):
done and who I was on notecards and put them on my mirror
or save them as a lock screen onmy phone.
And those were just reallyhelpful for me, because our
world has given us so many quoteunquote affirmations Like
they'll tell us oh, you'reenough, you're beautiful just
the way you are, and we have allthese feel good mantras that we
even sometimes allow into thechurch, that like, we kind of
(29:00):
like have these mantras andsprinkle Bible verse on top, and
I think that was not giving mewhat I needed to carry me
throughout the day when I wasreally struggling with shame and
with striving and so finding Icall them better affirmations
like those really rock solidtruths from scripture that you
can cling to and that can be areminder for you to anchor
yourself in him.
(29:20):
So like one for me is, likeI've already said is that one
from Colossians that says likeChrist is the one who holds all
things together, because I amconstantly tempted to believe
that it's me who has toperfectly hold all things
together.
And then one from Philippianswhere it says that God is
working in me to will and towork for his good pleasure.
So, even as I am obeying, Iknow that it is God who is
(29:41):
working in me, that I am notalone, as I am seeking to obey
him and grow in him.
And so find those verses andput them everywhere, because we
know that God's word is livingand active and it can.
It can pierce our hearts andthose, those cycles that can
seem impossible to overcome arecan be done away with through
the power of scripture.
(30:02):
I've seen it happen in my lifehow repeatedly choosing to
meditate on scripture, ratherthan my own self-condemnation,
has helped me break thosethought patterns and be more
quick to believe those lies thanI was 10 years ago when I was
first starting to practice this.
So yeah, just so.
Set those that scriptureconstantly before your eyes.
(30:24):
Set it, you know.
Meditate on it in your heartand your mind, you know.
Allow that those that scriptureto transform you.
Ellen Krause (30:31):
Absolutely.
That's such a beautifultestimony of how God has been
reshaping you, bethany.
When you said that, what cameto my mind is I'm also a very
visual learner, and so seeingyou know, having reminders of
that, is so incredibly helpful.
At the same time, I'm thinkingof someone like my husband who
is definitely more of anauditory learner, and I was
(30:54):
thinking just how hymns orChristian music that has such an
uplifting message that canbasically the same type of
message only you're hearing itor even listening to the Bible
on an app, is so helpful for anaudible learner.
So kind of taking that intoconsideration, I think, can help
(31:17):
a variety of ways.
Well, as we start to wrapthings up, bethany, if someone
is feeling stuck in striving andshame right now, what is the
first step that they can takeforward in embracing Christ's
grace?
Bethany Broderick (31:35):
I think the first step is being honest.
First, being honest withyourself, like we talked earlier
about those lies that you'rebelieving.
Being honest with God, becauseif they're like me, they
probably feel like God isdisappointed that they struggle
with this, that they should notbe wrestling with this, and so
being honest in your confessionto God to tell him what you
(31:57):
truly are struggling.
And then also being honest withanother sister in Christ, like
allowing someone else to sharethat burden with you, because,
oh man, like I never could haveexperienced freedom without
those other sisters telling methat I'm not alone, that they're
praying for me, that they'rechecking in on me, that they're
speaking truth to me.
(32:17):
So I just think that, for, like, these lies will grow in the
darkness, but when we bring themto light, that is when we truly
can defeat these lies and walkin the freedom of truth.
But as long as we leave themthere, we really can't overcome
them.
But when we are honest withourselves, when we're honest
with God and we're honest withothers, that's when we can start
to experience freedom.
Ellen Krause (32:38):
Absolutely.
That's such a hopeful place tostart.
But one other suggestion I wouldsay too, is journaling, and I
know sometimes people get scaredby the word journaling, but
let's just call it writing downwhat you're feeling, and I think
that can be so helpful again,especially for a visual person.
(33:00):
Is that, like, how am I feelingright now?
Well, you know what I'm feeling?
Really disappointed because Ididn't have a good quality quiet
time this morning.
My ADD was flaring up, I wasall over the place in my
thoughts and I didn't give myall to you, god, and like, when
(33:21):
you have it written down, youcan actually then sort of
reflect back and ask thequestions that you said earlier,
which was okay, you know, isthis a truth or a lie?
And start to address those aswell.
Well, bethany, thank you somuch for being willing to share
on this topic.
(33:41):
Where can people learn moreabout you and your book called
Perfected and your ministry?
Bethany Broderick (33:50):
Absolutely yeah.
So my website isbethanybroderickcom and you can
find all information about mybook there and my newsletter,
and then you can also find me onInstagram at Bethany G
Broderick.
Ellen Krause (34:02):
Fantastic, and we will make sure that we include
those links in our show notes.
Before we go, though, I have toask you our favorite Coffee and
Bible Time questions thateverybody wants to know.
Bethany Broderick (34:22):
What Bible do you use and what translation is
it?
Yeah, so I use an ESVilluminated Bible, a journaling
Bible.
So it has these reallybeautiful kind of old school
gold graphics inside.
I just it just makes the textfeel not more ancient, but it
makes it feel like this,reminding me that this is not
something new that was justgiven to us.
This is something that forthousands of years has grown and
(34:44):
nourished Christ followers.
It's a really beautifullydesigned Bible and also has that
journaling space, because Ireally like taking notes in my
Bible and underlining and kindof processing that way.
Ellen Krause (34:56):
Oh, that's awesome .
Well, that's my next questionDo you have any favorite
journaling supplies that?
You like to use for your Bible?
Bethany Broderick (35:02):
Yes, so I do some in like my main Bible for
when I'm studying a single bookof scripture.
I also love the ESV scripturejournals that like have a whole
page, like it's like thescripture on one side and just
journaling page on the other,and just to really kind of pray
through and ask my and reflecton the passages that I'm reading
.
So I really love doing that and, like maybe man, six years ago
(35:24):
my husband got me like the newtestament set of those and so
it's been really fun to slowlywork my way through and see
those journals start filling upand kind of just kind of this
testimony to like how God hasgrown me and like seeing the
things that I journaled atdifferent points when I was
studying different books of theBible has been really cool to
look back on.
Ellen Krause (35:43):
I love that and those are awesome resources.
Yes, I know exactly what you'retalking about.
We'll put a link to those aswell in the show notes.
Lastly, what is your favoriteapp or website for Bible study
tools?
Bethany Broderick (35:56):
I really love the Blue Letter Bible app or
website.
It's to me a really easy way.
I'm a little bit of a nerd andI don't.
I have not formally studiedHebrew or Greek or anything like
that, but I am self-taught in afew different ways and I really
love doing word studies andgetting down to like what the
original language meant by thisand like digging into it or like
(36:17):
comparing different Bibletranslations, or like looking at
those sorts of things and orcross references, like seeing
like those hyperlinks to otherparts of scripture, and so Blue
Letter Bible app does thatreally well for me and I've used
that for years now.
Ellen Krause (36:32):
Yes, that is an excellent, excellent resource.
We will include the link tothat as well.
Well, thank you so much forbeing here, Bethany.
It's been just such a pleasureto learn from you today.
I appreciate your message somuch.
Bethany Broderick (36:47):
It's been so much, such a joy getting to talk
to you.
Ellen Krause (36:51):
All right and for our listeners.
If this episode resonated withyou, please check out Bethany's
links and her new book.
We will include those in ourshow notes and share this
episode with a friend.
Do you have, do you know,someone in your life that
struggles with perfectionism?
(37:12):
I think this will really blesstheir day if you would pass it
along.
We will see you next time onthe Coffee and Bible Time
podcast.
Have a blessed day.
At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
Our goal is to help you delightin God's Word and thrive in
Christian living.
Each week we talk to subjectmatter experts who broaden your
biblical understanding,encourage you in hard times and
provide life-building tips toenhance your Christian walk.
We are so glad you have joinedus.
(00:25):
Welcome back to the Coffee andBible Time podcast.
This is Ellen, your host.
In today's episode.
We are talking aboutperfectionism and as Christians
we know that we are saved byGod's grace through faith in his
(00:46):
son, jesus.
But so often many of us feeldisappointed that we just aren't
good enough for God.
Maybe you feel like you don'tpray enough or attend church
enough or serve enough or stayup on your Bible reading plan.
Serve enough or stay up on yourBible reading plan, whatever
(01:08):
that looks like for you.
If you've ever felt like Godwould love you more if you were
more perfect for him, thisepisode is for you.
Our guest today is someone whohas not only walked this road
herself, but who has a gift forspeaking into it with both truth
and tenderness.
Bethany Broderick is an author,speaker and professor whose
(01:28):
writing has been featured by theGospel Coalition Risen,
motherhood Journey Women,christian Parenting and more.
She lives in Birmingham,Alabama, with her husband and
three young children.
Bethany has been open about herpersonal struggle with
perfectionism and how it hasboth challenged and shaped her
(01:50):
walk with Christ.
She is here today to help uslearn how to spot legalism,
practical ways that we can rootout our identity in Christ and
not in other people's approval,and how to get out of the cycle
of striving and shame.
So, bethany, we are so gladthat you are here.
Thank you for joining us.
Bethany Broderick (02:12):
Yeah, I'm so excited to be with you today.
Ellen Krause (02:15):
Well, I just want to start this conversation by
saying we are on the sameplaying field here, because I
definitely have a similarstruggle like that, so I think
that we're going to share a lotof commonalities here.
But why don't we start out justby you telling us a little bit
(02:36):
about what struggle you've hadwith perfectionism and what that
has looked like in your ownlife?
Bethany Broderick (02:44):
and what that has looked like in your own
life?
Yeah, I was.
God blessed me with a familyand a church and a community
that loved me from a young ageand preached the gospel to me
from a young age, and I'm really, really thankful for all the
ways that they poured in to myspiritual life and gave me so
much biblical knowledge and asolid foundation life and gave
(03:05):
me so much biblical knowledgeand a solid foundation.
But unfortunately, even at ayoung age, satan began twisting
some of God's word to where Istarted focusing more on God's
commands and how I could be goodfor him, rather than the
goodness of God and what he haddone in me and for me.
And so even I can even rememberfrom the youngest age, like
(03:27):
wanting to please my parents,wanting to please my Sunday
school teachers and, as I gotolder, wanting all my friends to
accept me and think that I wasgood and perfect, and that even
reached into my relationshipwith God, like you said, that I
thought God would love me more,that he was more pleased with me
if I could do more for him, andso it was.
(03:49):
I mean, for as long as I canremember, that has been one of
the biggest struggles in my life, feeling like it was up to me
to make people approve me, tolove me, and that really came
kind of to a climax in mymarriage when I got married.
You know, there's a lot of waysthat we can hide our
imperfections from those aroundus, from friends or even from
(04:11):
parents, because you know youcan go to your bedroom and just
like keep those parts you knowhidden away.
But in marriage, like they'rewith you 24-7, like you were
sharing, you know, a bedroomwith someone, you were sharing a
life and a home, and so some ofthose imperfections that I had
worked so hard to concealbecause I thought that if anyone
knew about them they wouldn'tlove me, they wouldn't accept me
(04:33):
those were now coming to lightand it was really in those early
years of marriage I wasconfronted with how I was
believing lies about how Godloved me, how my husband would
love me, and really God began meon a journey to start seeing
myself and seeing Christ for whohe really is.
Ellen Krause (04:55):
Bethany, thank you so much for just being honest
and vulnerable.
I can completely relate to that.
I think so many listeners alsoare going to be able to resonate
with what you just shared, andthat is definitely a hard
struggle because it's just, it'sconstant and it can be in many
facets, not just in ourrelationship with God but, like
(05:18):
you said, even people approvalas well.
Well, how would you say thatimpacted your walk with Jesus?
Bethany Broderick (05:28):
Yeah, I definitely felt that how much
God loved me each day was basedon how much I did for him.
So if I woke up I had myperfect quiet time.
I checked off my Bible readingplan, I prayed in certain ways
Then like obviously God waspleased with me that day, but on
the days that I didn't do myquiet time I overslept or I just
(05:51):
didn't feel like it and Iskipped my quiet time.
Or like maybe I prayed but Iknew my heart really wasn't in
it.
Then I thought that God must bedisappointed in me, that he is
some, like you know, divine,hasty judge up there with a
clipboard checking off each dayto make sure that I'd done all
these things so that by the endof the day he could say whether
or not I had earned his love andhis affection and his delight.
(06:15):
Because I knew for sure that Iwas saved and that Christ's
blood had covered my salvationand that I was getting to go to
heaven.
But I didn't know if God heaven.
But I didn't know if God likedme.
I didn't know if God delightedme.
I knew he had to love me, but Ididn't know if he wanted to
spend time with me, especiallywhen I messed up so much and so
(06:39):
I really began hiding myselffrom God.
So I would kind of like Adamand Eve did in the garden they
put together this fig leafcovering and they hid from God
because they were ashamed oftheir sin.
I would do the same thing of Iwould kind of hide parts of
myself from God or not want tospend time with him when I knew
that I had messed up, and so itreally.
(07:01):
It separated me from God in away that he never wanted to be
separated from me, that Christhad made a way for me to draw
near with assurance of faith,but instead I was so stuck in my
shame and my striving that Icouldn't see how God would want
to be with me.
Ellen Krause (07:30):
You know, it's sobering to hear how the enemy
uses perfectionism to start toreshape how our relationship
with God is, with him, how hesees us and, like you said, it's
twisted, which is that that'snot how God sees it.
Well, what made you realizethat this was something that you
began to be passionate aboutand want to talk about and share
in your ministry?
Bethany Broderick (07:51):
Yeah, one of the most difficult things about
this struggle is that it oftenincludes the lie that not only
do we have to be perfect, butwe're on our own in our striving
for perfection.
That everyone else must have itall together At least that's
what I perfection.
That everyone else must have itall together At least that's
what I assumed.
That everyone else had theirChristian walk all together.
Everyone else didn't strugglewith the same sins and doubts
(08:11):
that I did, and because I wasalone I couldn't share with
other people.
And that is a lie straight fromthe enemy himself that we are
separated not only from God butfrom God's people.
And so as I began kind ofwalking this road of freedom in
this area, god gave me some verysweet sisters in Christ and
(08:31):
some mentors to help me confessmy areas of sin, confess my
doubts, confess my struggles andthen bear my burden in that.
And I finally realized thatmaybe each of our struggles is a
little different, but we allstruggle.
We all are needing dailyreminders of God's grace and
love for us.
And so, as I started writingmore publicly, I realized that I
(08:55):
wanted other women to know thatthey were not alone Like I.
Like as you shared that youresonate so much with this, and
as I began sharing my storythrough my newsletter and
different articles and my blog,I was shocked with how many
women struggled with this, likewomen even I knew in person and
I'm like how have we allstruggled with this?
And no one has been able to havethe courage to step forward and
(09:19):
say, like this is a lie, likewhat we are all living according
to is a lie and it is not thegoodness that God has planned
for us.
I really wanted to step forwardand say, like identify these
lies, bring them to the light sothat together you know, not
just on your own, but togetherwith other brothers and sisters
in Christ we can start to walkin freedom from this, that we
(09:40):
can start living according tothe truth.
Ellen Krause (09:43):
Absolutely, and I just love how God can take our
personal struggles and use themas a ministry to others, and
that's what you've done sobeautifully, bethany, and
bravely.
Well, let's focus onunderstanding the problem.
Why do you think striving andshame are such persistent
(10:05):
struggles, even in Christiancircles, among those who do have
this true understanding of whatgrace is?
Bethany Broderick (10:14):
I think we've allowed some of the ideals of
our Western culture to kind ofseep into the church.
So our Western culture, youknow, values independence and in
fact it it values individualism, this ability to you know, pick
yourself up by your ownbootstraps and do it all, do it
(10:35):
by yourself and do it perfectlyLike that is what our culture
values.
And really, if you get down toit, it says that you culture
really says that you are onlyvalued for as much as you can
produce, as much as you can do.
And so we have allowed thoselies to infiltrate the church
and our church culture.
Really, in the way I see thiscoming out through legalism and
(10:59):
that sounds like a big word, anda lot of us associate legalism
with the belief that we have towork for our salvation.
And I think most of us would youknow, like you said earlier,
would believe that, yes, we aresaved by grace, through faith in
Christ.
We are not saved by our works.
So we might say that, but wewould also, the way we're living
(11:19):
out, show that we are believingthat God's approval for us is
based on our work.
So, yes, christ did that in thepast, but now it's up to me to
carry that salvation all the wayuntil we reach eternity.
So we've taken that pullyourself up by your bootstraps
and now we're doing that in theChristian life, like, christ has
given me this gift and it's allup to me to make sure that I
(11:41):
don't drop it, that I don't letgo, that I please him until I
reach heaven.
And so I think it's really thatindividualism, that
do-it-yourself mentality which,yes, can make really hard
workers can create a lot ofprogress, but at the expense of
our souls, at the expense of nottrusting Christ's grace day in
(12:04):
and day out.
Ellen Krause (12:06):
I appreciate how you put that, and I agree that
it's just not something thatgets talked about enough and we
have here we have this knowledgethat God saved me, but it's
it's almost some, also somepsychological factor that comes
in because it pervades all of.
I mean, perfectionism is kindof at least for myself something
(12:30):
that affected my whole life, oryou know what I'm saying, and
then it would be make sense thatit would also go into this area
of my life, and so I love thatwe're sort of rooting this out,
talking about it.
When it comes to that cycle ofperfectionism and shame, I've
(12:54):
heard people cite scripture like1 Peter 1.16 that says be holy
as I am holy, and those types ofpassages.
We start to get really nervousbecause we know we can't be holy
and perfect.
How would you explain yourmessage to someone who's really
cautious of becoming lax intheir faith but yet has this
(13:17):
fear of not being enough?
Bethany Broderick (13:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
I really feel like I have swungboth ways.
I have for the most of life,been that legalist,
perfectionist, but there wereseasons when I just really
struggled with depression andanxiety and was like, well, I
can't be perfect, so I'm justgoing to give up altogether and
I'm just going to not even tryto have my quiet time, I'm not
(13:41):
going to do anything because Ican't do it perfectly.
And that is not freedom either.
Perfectly and like that doesn't.
That is not freedom either.
Like there has to be this, thisgospel balance between both
works and faith.
And we see that in, I think,with our union with Christ.
And so you know that passagethat you quote that says that be
holy because I am holy.
(14:02):
And yes, we cannot be holy inour own efforts, in our own
human flesh, but the beauty ofthe gospel is that Jesus didn't
just give us salvation, he gaveus himself.
Like salvation is an ongoinggift in our life.
We were saved once and for all,but Christ also now lives in us
(14:26):
and we are in Christ and he isworking to make us holy, as he
is holy, that's.
The difference is that thecommands that were given in
scripture are not given to us sothat we can do them on our own.
We are given us those commandsthat we can know how the spirit
is shaping us to become morelike Christ.
(14:47):
And so I think that is where wehave to have a right perspective
of our works and grace, andthat both are provided to us.
Through Christ, he gives us thegrace that covers our sin and
he gives us grace to help uslive free from that sin.
Because when he gave ussalvation, like we are already
declared holy, we are declaredrighteous, like when God looks
(15:09):
at us, he sees everything thatChrist has, like he sees in us,
he sees Christ's righteousness,he sees Christ's holiness.
He loves us because we are inChrist and we cannot lose that.
And then now, between every day, between the day we are saved
and the day we see Christ faceto face, he's going to make us
more and more, help us to liveout that holiness and
righteousness.
Ellen Krause (15:30):
And praise God.
That that's the case for sure.
I know in my own life that I'veheard passages like that and it
does seem kind of scary.
But then also, as you mentioned, it's almost like I want to be
like one of those old cashregisters that when you press
(15:53):
the button it went ching likereally loud.
And as soon as I'm having thattype of a thought, like oh, I
blew it again today, God, likeyou know, a little cash register
would be like ding, ding, dingand say that message that you
just said, that God already paidthe price for that and how he
(16:14):
sees us is so differently thanhow we see ourselves, which,
thankfully, that's such a goodthing.
Well, bethany, let's talk aboutsome practical advice that we
can give our listeners.
In your experience, what aresome subtle signs that someone
may be caught in a cycle ofself-righteousness or
(16:37):
self-condemnation, even if theydon't realize it?
Bethany Broderick (16:41):
Yeah, I think our emotions are a really
helpful indicator of what'sgoing on in our heart.
Emotions are a really helpfulindicator of what's going on in
our heart.
I know for me even now, like Ididn't write this book because
I've completely conquered thatcycle, but because I am still
struggling with it, and so thereare times where I can feel in
my body that I'm feeling veryanxious, or maybe my heart's
(17:03):
just really tight and I'mfeeling gripped by shame, or I'm
just nervous or stressed out,and so, like all these different
emotions, I find, if reallytight and I'm feeling gripped by
shame, or I'm just nervous orstressed out, and so, like all
these different emotions, I findif I stop and I ask myself like
why, why am I feeling this way?
Like what is going on?
And so a lot of times, like,for example, yesterday, I was
feeling very stressed outbecause I have a lot to do.
We have a very this is a veryunusual week for our family.
(17:25):
We have a lot of moving parts,a lot of different travel and
stuff, and I just startedfeeling anxious about it and I
was like, okay, okay, why am Ifeeling anxious?
Like what lie am I believing?
That is making me feel this way, and I realized, like I was
believing the lie thateverything this week is under is
in my control, that like it'sup to me to make sure that
(17:46):
everyone gets where they need togo, that everyone travels
safely, that all these unknownfactors are figured out, that is
up to me to have that knowledge.
And I was like that's not true.
That is a lie that says that Ihave to do it all and be in
control.
But the truth is that Christ isthe one who holds all things
together, including me,including my family, including
(18:07):
my schedule, and so I can laydown the lie that it's up to me
and instead live according tothe truth that it is Christ who
holds all things together andChrist who is working in me for
his good pleasure.
And so I think it begins bytaking a look at those emotions
and getting to the root of whyam I feeling this way, what lies
(18:28):
might be at the root of them,and then getting in God's word
and exploring what truths combatthis lies.
And like you said that thingabout the cash register.
I love that image, but it is adaily mental fight to take
captive those thoughts thatoppose Christ and the truth of
Christ and submit them to himand instead choose to believe
(18:50):
and walk in truth.
And I don't always feel thosetruths.
Like yesterday, I still feltlike I should be the one doing
it all to make sure our family'sschedule and our time this week
is executed perfectly.
But I can choose like no, I'mgoing to surrender that anxiety
and trust that God is going totake care of us, even though I
don't know what'm going tosurrender that anxiety and trust
that God is going to take careof us, even though I don't know
what's going to happen, and Iwill have to do that today,
(19:11):
probably at some time.
I'll have to do that tomorrowof constantly renewing my mind
according to the truth of Christ.
Ellen Krause (19:19):
Thank you for sharing that, bethany.
Sometimes I feel like when weget so caught up in those
moments that you're describingthat, it almost takes like a tap
on the shoulder to remind uslike no, you don't have to take
on all that responsibility for aperfectly executed week for
(19:41):
yourself and your whole family.
Because when we have this typeof a mindset like that's really
what you believe, it's almostlike you need, like you know, a
little poke that says hold on,oh, you don't, let's see what it
really should look like.
Well, how can someone tell whenthey're excusing sin versus
(20:05):
when they're being legalistic?
Because that might be astruggle as well.
Bethany Broderick (20:11):
That's a good question and I think that you
know it's both legalism andexcusing sin, or the big word is
license.
So, like both of those, takeour focus and point them inward.
So legalism says that I can doit all on my own and I can do it
perfectly.
License says I can't do it allon my own, so I'm not going to
(20:33):
try at all.
And so the focus of both ofthose is looking inward, it's
navel gazing and it's focusingon what we can or can't do.
And so the antidote to both ofthose is looking to Christ, is
lifting our eyes off ourselvesand looking to Christ, the
pioneer and the perfecter of ourfaith.
So if you are falling intoexcusing sin, of saying it
(20:57):
doesn't matter, our holinessdoes matter, but it doesn't
matter to the point of like wehave to do it on our own.
Our desire for holiness shouldmake us look to Christ and see
what he is doing, to look at hisholiness and behold him and
then pray that the spirit in uswould help us become more like
Christ.
And I also think that what canhelp with both sides of that
(21:19):
legalism and license is invitingyour community into that
struggle, because sometimes wecan't tell, sometimes I can't
tell when the good thing thatI'm trying to do I'm actually
doing because I want thisperson's approval, or sometimes
when I'm like, oh well, I'm notgoing to worry about that
because I can't do it perfectlyanyway, when really I'm just not
(21:39):
wanting to walk in obedienceand so having someone, a sister
in Christ who you trust, who canbe that person, to tap you on
the shoulder and say, you know,remind you of that truth Like
this is not what Christ says.
This may, you know, feel goodin the moment, but this is not
the truth.
And so that is really helpfulfor me and I've had, I've had
(21:59):
dear sisters.
Help me when I've struggledwith both sides.
You know, help me.
Hebrews 10 says to spur oneanother on to love and good
deeds.
Ellen Krause (22:07):
Like both of those , that's such a mature and
biblical way to think it throughand really just so necessary
and I can't underemphasize aswell having those people in your
life that will call you outBecause that's how you're going
to grow, that's, you know, whenyou get out of a repeated
(22:32):
pattern and way of thinking.
So it might sting in the moment, but it's actually helping you
so much in the long term.
Bethany Broderick (22:42):
Absolutely.
Ellen Krause (22:43):
Bethany, it can be easy for resting in Christ to
become a vague or clichedconcept to us.
What does relying on grace looklike in your everyday life?
Bethany Broderick (22:56):
That is a great question and I think it's
still one that I that the way itlooks in my life changes
according to the season, youknow the time of year, like
what's going on in my workschedule and in our family
schedule, but I think ultimatelyit comes back to resting in
that identity in Christ andknowing that who we are in him.
(23:21):
And so every day I have to atthe very beginning of my day,
even if I don't have that, youknow that, quote unquote
picturesque quiet time where I'msitting in the Word for an hour
with a hot cup of coffee.
That doesn't always happen.
This morning it didn't happenLike I got up and I immediately
had to hop in the shower and getgoing on our day.
And it was just a few momentsin the shower where I could
already feel my mind spinning,trying to piece together what
(23:43):
today would look like.
I'm like no, no, no.
I'm going to stop now and I'mgoing to remember who Christ is
and I'm going to think about hischaracter for a minute and then
think about what that means forme.
And I know I keep saying it's abattle of the mind, but I truly
think so much of this happensin our mind and if we could take
control of our thought patterns, that it would transform the
(24:05):
way we live, because so many ofus believe that resting is just
another activity that we have todo.
That does not fit into ourschedule, when really resting in
Christ begins with how we seeourselves in relationship to Him
.
And so I think that's, for me,is just drawing my mind back to
Christ.
And even you know, I tried tohave these moments, you know,
kind of midday maybe, rightafter lunch, before I start my
(24:27):
afternoon tasks, or right beforebefore bed, where I just kind
of try to check in, like this isnot like a long time.
I check in.
I'm like, am I right now whatI'm doing or what I've just done
?
Like, did I do that out of myidentity in Christ, out of what
he is doing in me, or was Ireverting back to trying to
strive in my own effort?
Is there anything I feelashamed of right now that I need
(24:47):
to confess to him?
So it's just constantly comingback to him, not in these big
ways, not in like thesehour-long times in scripture.
Those are great, but, you see,like tiny moments where we're
checking in and that's what itmeans to abide in Christ, to
stay connected with him.
Like if I only talked to myhusband for 30 minutes a day, we
would not have a great you knowrelationship.
(25:09):
But I text him, you know, atthis little point, when this
thing happens.
Or you know, we have a chat atdinnertime and then we may spend
you know chat for five moreminutes after bedtime.
And we have all these momentswhere we're reconnecting.
And he knows what's going on inmy day and I know what's going
on in his day and it's the samething with Christ, like what's
(25:32):
going on in his day and it's thesame thing with Christ, like
constantly coming back to himand repeatedly giving him those
lies and believing his truth,surrendering our burdens to him,
asking for him to help us, andit's that constant, ongoing in
the little ways that that's,that's what it looks like and
it's hard to remind ourselves ofthat, but we can even pray and
ask him help me to remember tocome to you and to rest in you,
and he delights in answeringthat prayer.
Ellen Krause (25:49):
He absolutely does .
And for me, the prayer partit's just so crucial because we
get into cycles of feelingdisappointed and then it's
important to come to God.
And I feel the most refreshedwhen I've taken time to pray,
(26:09):
and maybe that is in the showerand you're turning it over to
God or you're driving to work,but you're taking that moment to
pray to God, to ask him to sortof reroute you in his daily
grace and help you each step ofthe way, every time it comes up.
And that's the beauty of prayeris that we can pray anytime,
(26:32):
anywhere, any place, and God isalways there.
Bethany Broderick (26:36):
And I think for me, for so long I believed I
had to have these perfectprayers.
This goes back to thatperfectionism.
So anytime I prayed, it had tocover that old school acronym
acts.
It had to have adoration,confession, thanksgiving,
supplication.
It needed to be in a certainposition and it needed to go on
for a certain time.
It had to have certain language.
And so there was so muchperfectionism surrounding my
(26:57):
prayer life that it really was ahindrance to me coming before
him, because I'm like, why wouldI come before him with this
when I have this other burden ofdoing it perfectly?
And so, instead of when we knowthat we don't have to approach
him with these fancy words orthis very perfectly formed
prayer, we can just come to himand say help, yes, I don't see
(27:18):
what you're doing here.
God, like this makes me angry.
And like knowing that heaccepts that prayer or I, I'm
doubting right now, god, thatyou were good enough to walk me
through this.
He wants that prayer, like wecan come to him with one word,
one sentence, standing up, likeyou said, in the car, driving in
the shower, like he delights in.
However, we want to come beforehim and we don't have to have
(27:39):
this perfect prayer or thisperfect all of our emotions
sorted out.
He wants us to come to him justas we are, and that is how he
can work in our lives, how wecan open ourselves up to him.
Ellen Krause (27:51):
That's so important.
Yes, for each one of us to beable to do that regularly and
sort of defeat that self-doubt,that self-condemnation that
comes in Bethany.
Do you have any other tangibleways that you'd like to share
that you've learned to root youridentity in Jesus rather than
(28:11):
in your performance or approval?
Bethany Broderick (28:16):
You know, yeah, I was thinking earlier
about when you said that youneed those like taps on the
shoulder to kind of point youback, and I, for me, I'm a very
visual learner and I need somevisual reminders throughout my
day.
And so, um, like when I wasreally struggling with this, I
would write down like verses orstatements about what Christ has
(28:37):
done and who I was on notecards and put them on my mirror
or save them as a lock screen onmy phone.
And those were just reallyhelpful for me, because our
world has given us so many quoteunquote affirmations Like
they'll tell us oh, you'reenough, you're beautiful just
the way you are, and we have allthese feel good mantras that we
even sometimes allow into thechurch, that like, we kind of
(29:00):
like have these mantras andsprinkle Bible verse on top, and
I think that was not giving mewhat I needed to carry me
throughout the day when I wasreally struggling with shame and
with striving and so finding Icall them better affirmations
like those really rock solidtruths from scripture that you
can cling to and that can be areminder for you to anchor
yourself in him.
(29:20):
So like one for me is, likeI've already said is that one
from Colossians that says likeChrist is the one who holds all
things together, because I amconstantly tempted to believe
that it's me who has toperfectly hold all things
together.
And then one from Philippianswhere it says that God is
working in me to will and towork for his good pleasure.
So, even as I am obeying, Iknow that it is God who is
(29:41):
working in me, that I am notalone, as I am seeking to obey
him and grow in him.
And so find those verses andput them everywhere, because we
know that God's word is livingand active and it can.
It can pierce our hearts andthose, those cycles that can
seem impossible to overcome arecan be done away with through
the power of scripture.
(30:02):
I've seen it happen in my lifehow repeatedly choosing to
meditate on scripture, ratherthan my own self-condemnation,
has helped me break thosethought patterns and be more
quick to believe those lies thanI was 10 years ago when I was
first starting to practice this.
So yeah, just so.
Set those that scriptureconstantly before your eyes.
(30:24):
Set it, you know.
Meditate on it in your heartand your mind, you know.
Allow that those that scriptureto transform you.
Ellen Krause (30:31):
Absolutely.
That's such a beautifultestimony of how God has been
reshaping you, bethany.
When you said that, what cameto my mind is I'm also a very
visual learner, and so seeingyou know, having reminders of
that, is so incredibly helpful.
At the same time, I'm thinkingof someone like my husband who
is definitely more of anauditory learner, and I was
(30:54):
thinking just how hymns orChristian music that has such an
uplifting message that canbasically the same type of
message only you're hearing itor even listening to the Bible
on an app, is so helpful for anaudible learner.
So kind of taking that intoconsideration, I think, can help
(31:17):
a variety of ways.
Well, as we start to wrapthings up, bethany, if someone
is feeling stuck in striving andshame right now, what is the
first step that they can takeforward in embracing Christ's
grace?
Bethany Broderick (31:35):
I think the first step is being honest.
First, being honest withyourself, like we talked earlier
about those lies that you'rebelieving.
Being honest with God, becauseif they're like me, they
probably feel like God isdisappointed that they struggle
with this, that they should notbe wrestling with this, and so
being honest in your confessionto God to tell him what you
(31:57):
truly are struggling.
And then also being honest withanother sister in Christ, like
allowing someone else to sharethat burden with you, because,
oh man, like I never could haveexperienced freedom without
those other sisters telling methat I'm not alone, that they're
praying for me, that they'rechecking in on me, that they're
speaking truth to me.
(32:17):
So I just think that, for, like, these lies will grow in the
darkness, but when we bring themto light, that is when we truly
can defeat these lies and walkin the freedom of truth.
But as long as we leave themthere, we really can't overcome
them.
But when we are honest withourselves, when we're honest
with God and we're honest withothers, that's when we can start
to experience freedom.
Ellen Krause (32:38):
Absolutely.
That's such a hopeful place tostart.
But one other suggestion I wouldsay too, is journaling, and I
know sometimes people get scaredby the word journaling, but
let's just call it writing downwhat you're feeling, and I think
that can be so helpful again,especially for a visual person.
(33:00):
Is that, like, how am I feelingright now?
Well, you know what I'm feeling?
Really disappointed because Ididn't have a good quality quiet
time this morning.
My ADD was flaring up, I wasall over the place in my
thoughts and I didn't give myall to you, god, and like, when
(33:21):
you have it written down, youcan actually then sort of
reflect back and ask thequestions that you said earlier,
which was okay, you know, isthis a truth or a lie?
And start to address those aswell.
Well, bethany, thank you somuch for being willing to share
on this topic.
(33:41):
Where can people learn moreabout you and your book called
Perfected and your ministry?
Bethany Broderick (33:50):
Absolutely yeah.
So my website isbethanybroderickcom and you can
find all information about mybook there and my newsletter,
and then you can also find me onInstagram at Bethany G
Broderick.
Ellen Krause (34:02):
Fantastic, and we will make sure that we include
those links in our show notes.
Before we go, though, I have toask you our favorite Coffee and
Bible Time questions thateverybody wants to know.
Bethany Broderick (34:22):
What Bible do you use and what translation is
it?
Yeah, so I use an ESVilluminated Bible, a journaling
Bible.
So it has these reallybeautiful kind of old school
gold graphics inside.
I just it just makes the textfeel not more ancient, but it
makes it feel like this,reminding me that this is not
something new that was justgiven to us.
This is something that forthousands of years has grown and
(34:44):
nourished Christ followers.
It's a really beautifullydesigned Bible and also has that
journaling space, because Ireally like taking notes in my
Bible and underlining and kindof processing that way.
Ellen Krause (34:56):
Oh, that's awesome .
Well, that's my next questionDo you have any favorite
journaling supplies that?
You like to use for your Bible?
Bethany Broderick (35:02):
Yes, so I do some in like my main Bible for
when I'm studying a single bookof scripture.
I also love the ESV scripturejournals that like have a whole
page, like it's like thescripture on one side and just
journaling page on the other,and just to really kind of pray
through and ask my and reflecton the passages that I'm reading
.
So I really love doing that and, like maybe man, six years ago
(35:24):
my husband got me like the newtestament set of those and so
it's been really fun to slowlywork my way through and see
those journals start filling upand kind of just kind of this
testimony to like how God hasgrown me and like seeing the
things that I journaled atdifferent points when I was
studying different books of theBible has been really cool to
look back on.
Ellen Krause (35:43):
I love that and those are awesome resources.
Yes, I know exactly what you'retalking about.
We'll put a link to those aswell in the show notes.
Lastly, what is your favoriteapp or website for Bible study
tools?
Bethany Broderick (35:56):
I really love the Blue Letter Bible app or
website.
It's to me a really easy way.
I'm a little bit of a nerd andI don't.
I have not formally studiedHebrew or Greek or anything like
that, but I am self-taught in afew different ways and I really
love doing word studies andgetting down to like what the
original language meant by thisand like digging into it or like
(36:17):
comparing different Bibletranslations, or like looking at
those sorts of things and orcross references, like seeing
like those hyperlinks to otherparts of scripture, and so Blue
Letter Bible app does thatreally well for me and I've used
that for years now.
Ellen Krause (36:32):
Yes, that is an excellent, excellent resource.
We will include the link tothat as well.
Well, thank you so much forbeing here, Bethany.
It's been just such a pleasureto learn from you today.
I appreciate your message somuch.
Bethany Broderick (36:47):
It's been so much, such a joy getting to talk
to you.
Ellen Krause (36:51):
All right and for our listeners.
If this episode resonated withyou, please check out Bethany's
links and her new book.
We will include those in ourshow notes and share this
episode with a friend.
Do you have, do you know,someone in your life that
struggles with perfectionism?
(37:12):
I think this will really blesstheir day if you would pass it
along.
We will see you next time onthe Coffee and Bible Time
podcast.
Have a blessed day.
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