September 25, 2025 • 29 mins
What does it mean to live truthfully with complex emotions? Author Jillian Benfield joins us to share how parenting two medically complex children led her to deeper honesty with God—and freedom in holding both pain and praise. This conversation challenges toxic positivity, explores biblical lament, and offers a powerful framework for living fully human through life’s hardest seasons.
Overwhelmed & Grateful releases on October 7th, 2025—order your copy today!
Scripture and Resources:
- Psalm 13
- The Spirituality of the Psalms by Walter Brueggemann
Jillian's faves:
NRSV | NIV | YouVersion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ellen Krause (00:04):
At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
Our goal is to help you delightin God's Word and thrive in
Christian living.
Each week, we talk to subjectmatter experts who broaden your
biblical understanding,encourage you in hard times and
provide life-building tips toenhance your Christian walk.
We are so glad you have joinedus.
(00:25):
Welcome back to the Coffee andBible Time podcast.
I'm Ellen, your host, and I'mso grateful that you are joining
us today.
You know, life rarely goesexactly as planned.
In fact, sometimes it throws uscurveballs that literally shake
us to the core.
(00:45):
Health challenges, seasons ofgrief or unexpected detours can
leave us questioning everything,and yet somehow there can still
be beauty in the midst of themess.
Our guest today, jillianBenfield, knows that tension
well.
Our guest today, jillianBenfield, knows that tension
(01:08):
well.
Jillian is a former journalistand news anchor who holds a
degree in broadcast journalismfrom the University of Georgia.
She's also a mom writer,disability advocate and someone
who's walked through some deeplyunexpected circumstances.
And today we're diving intowhat it looks like to hold pain
and gratitude in tension withone another, to thank God
(01:31):
without suppressing our grief,and to grieve while holding
space from gratitude.
Jillian, welcome to the Coffeeand Bible Time podcast.
Jillian Benfield (01:42):
Thank you so much for having me.
As I told you earlier, this ismy first one, so I'm just super
excited to be here.
A little nervous, but I knowthat we're just going to chat
like old friends.
Ellen Krause (01:54):
Exactly.
Well, I can tell you afterreading Overwhelmed and Grateful
, this book just came exactlywhen I needed it, so I think
it's going to hit a lot ofpeople.
Jillian Benfield (02:07):
I'm so glad to hear that my goal was to write
it in a way that it would applyto no matter what phase of life
you're in, so thank you.
Ellen Krause (02:14):
Yes, absolutely.
So we're here today to talkabout this concept of and and
you have the ampersand in thebook and it's really the holding
of multiple emotions togetherat the same time.
So, as we dive in here, tell usa little bit about yourself and
(02:35):
the circumstances that sparkedyour exploration of this topic.
Jillian Benfield (02:40):
Sure.
So my first book is called theGift of the Unexpected, and that
was about my second child'sDown syndrome diagnosis and how
that really upended everything.
It upended my world but also myworldview, my belief system,
and I really had to deconstructwhat I believed and reconstruct
those beliefs based ondisability being introduced into
(03:02):
my life.
And so I had already gonethrough this very upending
transformative process for acouple of years alongside my son
Anderson, and then, when he wasnot quite two years old, I had
a miscarriage and then gotpregnant again and we thought
all was well.
(03:22):
And then I went to a 14 weekultrasound and I told my husband
not to come, because those arepretty typically, you know,
there wasn't even supposed to bean ultrasound that day pretty
uneventful, and this was mythird child.
But when I got in there theycouldn't find a heartbeat again.
Finally we got back to a roomand this time his stomach was
(03:43):
like almost double the size ofhis head and we knew something
was wrong.
And eventually, after weekafter week after week of doctor
appointments, they diagnosed himwith something called posterior
urethral valves, which is avery serious and sometimes fatal
condition.
It's a blockage in the urethraand it affects kidney
development and lung development, and we knew we were in for a
(04:04):
very rocky ride with thispregnancy.
And in the middle of this, atthe time, my husband was
military and so we were moving.
So we got this diagnosis andthen we were moving to Texas.
Anyways, we got to San Antonio,where we were stationed, and
realized we were going to haveto deliver in Houston.
I was going to have to liveaway from my other two children
at a Ronald McDonald house inorder to give birth to him, and
(04:28):
then we were in the NICU and hadfetal intervention surgery and
all of these things.
And we come to find out that hedid not end up having a
blockage in his urethra.
He had all of these symptoms,but when they went to go ablate
the valves, there were nonethere.
And we thought we experiencedand still believe we experienced
this miracle.
(04:48):
And yet, even with that beingsaid, he still had a very
difficult first one to two yearsof life.
And so that's where I was whenI discovered this concept of,
and I had a toddler with adisability and associated
medical illnesses that werecoming along with that
disability at the time, and Ihad this infant who was very
(05:12):
sickly.
He had a nephrostomy too.
He had clubbed feet.
I had 18 specialists betweenthe two boys at one point, oh my
goodness, and I was drowning.
I mean it was just such adifficult time and yet I was
grateful.
I was because it could havebeen so much worse, right.
And so I just felt thisoverwhelm.
I felt this overwhelm ofemotions because I should have
(05:36):
just been being grateful, right,Because he could have.
He could have died, he couldhave been way worse off, he
could have had lung issues andhe didn't.
And yet it was still sodifficult what we were going
through.
And that's when I came acrossthis article by another author
who had lost a child and it wasa baby, and her brother ended up
(05:57):
having another baby and hertherapist asked her how she was
doing with that and she saidwell, I'm really glad the baby's
healthy, but I'm also stillvery sad about losing my baby.
And the therapist responded andyou're really sad, you don't
have to choose.
You can be really grateful thatthis nephew or niece, I can't
(06:22):
remember, was born healthy andyou are still allowed to be sad
over your own loss.
And I was sitting in mygrandmother's hand-me-down
recliner feeding my infant withmy toddler, watching Sesame
Street and we had already beento two appointments that day and
I just started crying and Irealized that I could be both.
(06:44):
I could be sad over how hard mylife was at that point and it
was hard and I could also begrateful that the worst had not
come to pass and that reallystarted me on a journey of
viewing life through an and lens, which has changed so much for
(07:07):
me, both in times of completeturmoil, in times of rebuilding
and in times like now where lifeis just kind of at a steady
pace.
Ellen Krause (07:16):
Yes, I think there is something so freeing about
that, to allow you to experiencethese multiple emotions at the
same time and I just want togive you a little example.
When I'm reading your story andat the same time, I'm
(07:36):
experiencing my own sort ofwe're in a period of order where
we knew things were expected,your children grow up, they get
married, they move out and youbecome an empty nester and there
is great joy in that experienceof your children finding the
love of their life and gettingmarried and moving away perhaps.
(08:01):
Yet at the same time, why am Iso sad?
Like I did have these veryconflicting emotions, and you
know understanding that it'sokay to have both, like you're
allowed, like one doesn't negatethe other.
I think it's just a steptowards healing and I know you
(08:23):
talk a little bit more aboutthat as well.
Jillian Benfield (08:25):
I think so too .
I think it is a step towardshealing, because I think that
we're in a culture, both on alarge scale and also on a church
scale as well, where we areoften told to focus on the
positive and, of course, you'rehappy for your children and
their growth, and this is what'ssupposed to happen, and all
these things are good things,and it's also sad that it's an
(08:50):
ending and this transition thatyou're in and both of those
things are allowed.
And when we downplay the hardthings, we're not being honest
with God, we're not being honestwith ourselves, and then what
ends up happening is we're notbeing honest with other people
too, and we end up making otherpeople feel more alone when
(09:12):
their sad things are happeningand we just try to shine a light
on the good things that arehappening.
They know good things arehappening too, and maybe they do
need somebody to help them seethe light.
Sometimes it's also okay for usto be honest about our dark
things.
I think that is healthyspiritually, mentally and
(09:35):
physically.
Ellen Krause (09:37):
Yes, absolutely.
You've really highlighted a lotof these different darkness and
light.
Highlighted a lot of thesedifferent darkness and light,
difficult and beautiful from andto hope and trust, honesty and
gratitude.
There's so many of these thatsort of bubbled up to the
(09:59):
surface of the context in whichyou were talking about.
Was there any particularexample that's coming to mind in
your life right now?
Jillian Benfield (10:09):
Yeah, I think now my youngest son, I have to
say all of his medical issueshave pretty much been resolved
and he is very much living likea typical eight-year-old boy.
However, my middle son, who hasDown syndrome, is a lesson, a
constant lesson, in living inthe and, for instance, right now
we're going through an advocacystruggle with the school where
(10:33):
we want them to allow him to goon a hybrid schedule where he
would receive therapy that theydon't offer twice a week at an
outside clinic and school theother three days a week, and we
think we have the law on ourside and research on our side
and all of these things.
And just one person at thatmeeting said no.
And so I would say, like my andright now is I am mad, I'm
(10:57):
being honest, I'm angry, I'mdisappointed, and I am also
grateful that we have theresources to keep pursuing this,
that I have the kind of jobwith flexibility, that I know
that I can make this worksomehow, some way I'm going to
find a way.
And also, just in general forhim, like parenting a child with
(11:21):
a significant disability is thehardest thing I've ever done
and it is also one of mygreatest gifts.
That's just true, because ofall the things that I have
unlearned and learned and how Ihave transformed.
Alongside parenting him, I amliving in a constant state of
(11:41):
and and I think really for allof us we probably have that to
some degree, but I see it themost through parenting my son
with a disability, and for thatI am very grateful of children
(12:09):
with disabilities in that ourchurch sponsored an event.
Ellen Krause (12:10):
It was a prom event for people with
disabilities and it was likeeven into young adults and some
adults actually, and there werea couple hundred people at this
event.
Every disabled person had avolunteer partner who spent the
evening with them at dinner andthen they had dancing and at the
(12:31):
end of that night I said tomyself these parents of disabled
children are.
It's unbelievably incredible tobe walking that life with that
child into adulthood and, likeyou said, it's ongoing right
(12:54):
With other children who grow anddevelop into adulthood.
There's a different transitionthat takes place and I was just
in awe.
I was like these people areincredible, the disabled people,
parents.
It was just such an awesome,awesome event.
Jillian Benfield (13:12):
Yeah, I think the trick there is.
There's always challenges withkids with disabilities, right,
because there are societalbarriers that they inevitably
face and we face alongside thembeing their parents.
And you know, there's theseInstagram accounts and such that
only focus on the shiny partsof disability, and then there's
other Instagram accounts thatonly complain about being a
(13:35):
parent with a disability, rightand like.
Neither of those are helpful.
In my eyes, it's finding thathonesty of those struggles and
also's an aging parent thatwe're taking care of.
(14:09):
Maybe it's becoming an emptynester, maybe it is a strained
relationship with someone, maybewe've been betrayed by someone.
Everybody you know has somethingdifficult in their lives,
whether it's in the forefront oftheir lives right now, or maybe
it's taking a background seatat the moment.
But we all have struggles.
And how do we move forward withthose struggles?
(14:30):
While not totally succumbing tothe struggle, but also not
ignoring the struggle andtherefore ignoring our real
heart and our real emotions andtherefore ignoring other
people's real struggles too?
And I think the way we moveforward in life where we can be
alive to it all, is through anand lens the discussion of this
(15:01):
topic around three phases.
Ellen Krause (15:04):
So order, disorder and reorder.
Tell us a little bit aboutthese concepts and how you came
to use them.
Jillian Benfield (15:19):
Yeah.
So probably the mostinfluential book definitely the
top three, for sure that I'veever read for me and my
spiritual life was WalterBrueggemann's the Spirituality
of the Psalms.
And I read that book while wewere living in Texas, while I
was in the space that we talkedabout earlier, with a very sick
infant and an also sicklytoddler, as well as a
four-year-old, typicallydeveloping daughter who had her
(15:40):
own needs and everything.
And so I came across this bookthat just gave me such
permission through the Psalmsthat said the Psalms really
teach us how to be inrelationship with God.
Over half of them are laments,and that was so eyeopening to me
, because those aren't thePsalms that we're focused on in
(16:02):
church or if you have adevotional there's, you don't
see, you know they're not frontand center.
These Psalms that are lamentingand demanding justice from God
and are it can be angry.
And so through that book,walter Brueggemann says that we
are all in a phase of eitherorientation, disorientation or
(16:22):
reorientation, and I renamedthat order disorder reorder for
my book.
And order is a place wherethings are just kind of humming
along.
I would say for most of us wespend most of our lives in a
place of order.
That's where we are right now,where we have struggles in our
lives, but our lives have notbeen turned upside down.
We're not in an upside downphase right now.
(16:44):
Life is just kind of steady.
That's order.
Disorder is when that big,unexpected event comes into your
life or maybe it is an expectedevent, maybe like a death of a
parent or something but nobodycan quite prepare for the grief
that comes with even events thatare expected.
That's disorder.
And reorder is when we arereacquainted with the goodness
(17:08):
of God and how God has broughtforth new life out of that
seemingly dead situation.
So that's how I structured thebook.
It's like how can we practicethis honesty that we see in the
Psalms, no matter what phase oflife we are in?
(17:29):
And although the Psalms aresuch a radical act of honesty
and often filled with lament,they're also so very full of
hope and also so very full ofjoy and so very full of praise.
Maybe not every single one, butoften, like Psalm 13 is
probably my favorite passage inthe Bible.
It starts with how long, lord,will you forget me forever?
(17:52):
How long will you hide yourface from me?
And then it ends after goingthrough the lament it ends in,
but I trust in your unfailinglove that you are good to me,
you know.
So I think that the Psalms aresuch a lesson in, and they're
such a lesson in being radicallyhonest with God and also being
(18:16):
completely alive to the goodnessof God at the same time, and I
think that's how we are calledto live.
I think we are called to bealive to it all.
Ellen Krause (18:29):
Absolutely, and sometimes we feel guilty about
that, which I think that's whatI love about that you're
actually talking about it sothat we can realize.
No, we don't have to feelguilty for having this mixed set
of emotions, and the Psalms arejust.
You know, that was a Psalm ofDavid and he himself went
(18:56):
through so many different trialsand expressed his anger,
sadness, all these differentthings, but in the end, like you
said, he always looped backaround and said but you, Lord, I
will trust.
Jillian Benfield (19:06):
Right.
I think the goodness of God isalways somehow, some way at work
, even in our darkest momentsand even when we can't see it,
and that's okay if we can't seeit at the time.
It's just knowing that somehowGod is working beneath the
surface in ways we cannot see,because God is the God of
(19:27):
resurrection and will bring newlife out of dead things.
And if we can hold on to thatin our darkest moments, knowing
that God has there's no depththat he has not been to, I think
that we can grieve and hold onto hope that somehow goodness
will be seen, be made from thissituation.
Ellen Krause (19:49):
Absolutely, and in the book you give wonderful
scripture references to howJesus himself experienced these
very same things.
Well, for people who arelistening today, if they could
take away just one thing fromthis conversation about
overwhelmed and grateful, whatwould you want it to be?
Jillian Benfield (20:11):
I would say that we are meant to be full
humans.
We are meant to be alive toeverything.
If we only lean into the darkthings, then we become hardened
and cynical.
And if we only lean into thelight things, if we end up
gaslighting other people andalso ourselves into thinking
(20:33):
that no life is great, then welose our humanity, we lose our
ability to connect with God in areal deep way and we lose our
ability to connect with God in areal deep way and we lose our
ability to connect with others.
So what I would leave peoplewith is that the and way of life
is the life that we are calledto live.
(20:54):
We are supposed to acknowledgethe darkness and we are supposed
to also keep our eyes open tothe light in and out of every
single day.
And if we can just make thatshift of maybe for me, I pray my
and every morning before Istart work.
So I tell God what is paining me, what is angering me, what is
(21:18):
frustrating me, disappointing me, and I tell God how I am
grateful for whatever it is thatday.
Sometimes it's connected tothat first thing, like the
example I gave you earlier wherethe advocacy thing with my son.
Sometimes it's connected, andsometimes I can't find the light
in that situation, and yet Ican still be thankful for how
(21:39):
the river in my backyard issparkling that morning and
seeing God in it, and so if Icould leave people with anything
, it's just that I think thatwe're supposed to hold the
darkness and we're supposed toalso keep our eyes open to the
light, and I think if we do that, we become more honest and more
(22:00):
grateful and the transformedpeople we're supposed to be.
I think healing requiresgratitude, and we are on a
healing path that lasts ourwhole life, and so, if we can be
honest and grateful, I thinkthat's the path forward toward
Jesus and toward a more fulllife.
Ellen Krause (22:18):
Absolutely.
I was thinking, you know, asyou were talking there, just
that, how incredible it is thatGod put you with your son to be
the advocate that he needs inthat situation, and we'll be
praying that it works out andwe'll also be able to impact
(22:41):
other children going forwardthat might be in the same
circumstances.
Thank you for just beingwilling to share those examples
with us.
Jillian, how can listeners findout more information about your
incredible book and the workthat you do?
Jillian Benfield (22:59):
Yeah, so I have a website,
jillianbenfieldcom.
I am on Facebook at JillianBenfield and Instagram at
Jillian Benfield blog, and mybook is available for 30% off
plus free shipping If you orderdirectly from Baker books.
It's actually 40% off forpresale, but I don't know when
this will air, and then it'salso available on Amazon and
(23:20):
Barnes and Noble.
So yeah, that's about it.
Ellen Krause (23:24):
Oh, wonderful, All right.
Before we go, I have to ask youour favorite questions here for
guests what Bible is your go-toBible and what translation is
it?
Jillian Benfield (23:35):
I would say the translation would be NSRV,
also NIV, also NIV, and theBible app.
I do subscribe to YouVersion,the premium app, because I like
to read the commentariesalongside scripture, especially
when I'm writing, but I've foundthat to be for a while.
(23:58):
I went to seminary.
I'm not going to seminaryanymore.
I realized I couldn't add thatinto being a mom and a writer
and everything.
But it allows me to get bettercontext and that's probably my
favorite tool that I use.
Ellen Krause (24:11):
Okay, awesome.
How about Bible journaling?
Do you have any favorite Biblejournaling supplies?
Jillian Benfield (24:19):
I don't.
I think, because I write somuch as it is day to day that I
don't also journal, but I dostart my morning.
I just I heard on a podcastthat people like one of the top
10 things people love to talkabout is their routine.
So I'm just going to tell youmy morning routine and maybe you
can get something out of it.
So if you have a two storyhouse, this has been a game
(24:41):
changer for me.
We put like a little bar cart inour room with a coffee machine
and I wake up and I go directlyto the coffee machine and make
myself coffee and then I getback into bed, which is
delightful.
It's such a nice way to startthe day and I start that with my
Bible reading and I kind of Idon't stick, I kind of jump
(25:04):
around at whatever I'm using,whether it's a devotional or a
book of common prayer, butthat's how I start my day while
drinking my coffee, which isperfect for your podcast.
Maybe you need to get coffeeand get back into bed.
I also start super early though.
So just for context, justbecause I like to work out
(25:25):
before the kids get up andeverything, so that's why I get
back into bed, because it's veryearly when I wake up.
Ellen Krause (25:32):
Wow, I love that.
That is such a fun tip.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, yeah, well, we appreciateyou so much joining us today.
It's been such a treat and justso encouraging for learning how
to hold these messy, difficultfeelings and circumstances
honestly and faithfully beforeGod and being grateful so to our
(25:59):
listeners.
If this conversation resonatedwith you, I highly recommend
picking up a copy of Jillian'sbook Overwhelmed and Grateful
and learning more about herwriting and advocacy at her
website.
We will have all of those linksin our show notes and if
today's episode has encouragedyou, would you please consider
(26:22):
leaving a review and sharing itwith a friend.
It really helps support ourwork.
Thanks again for being with usand we'll see you next time at
the Coffee and Bible Timepodcast.
Thank you.
At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
Our goal is to help you delightin God's Word and thrive in
Christian living.
Each week, we talk to subjectmatter experts who broaden your
biblical understanding,encourage you in hard times and
provide life-building tips toenhance your Christian walk.
We are so glad you have joinedus.
(00:25):
Welcome back to the Coffee andBible Time podcast.
I'm Ellen, your host, and I'mso grateful that you are joining
us today.
You know, life rarely goesexactly as planned.
In fact, sometimes it throws uscurveballs that literally shake
us to the core.
(00:45):
Health challenges, seasons ofgrief or unexpected detours can
leave us questioning everything,and yet somehow there can still
be beauty in the midst of themess.
Our guest today, jillianBenfield, knows that tension
well.
Our guest today, jillianBenfield, knows that tension
(01:08):
well.
Jillian is a former journalistand news anchor who holds a
degree in broadcast journalismfrom the University of Georgia.
She's also a mom writer,disability advocate and someone
who's walked through some deeplyunexpected circumstances.
And today we're diving intowhat it looks like to hold pain
and gratitude in tension withone another, to thank God
(01:31):
without suppressing our grief,and to grieve while holding
space from gratitude.
Jillian, welcome to the Coffeeand Bible Time podcast.
Jillian Benfield (01:42):
Thank you so much for having me.
As I told you earlier, this ismy first one, so I'm just super
excited to be here.
A little nervous, but I knowthat we're just going to chat
like old friends.
Ellen Krause (01:54):
Exactly.
Well, I can tell you afterreading Overwhelmed and Grateful
, this book just came exactlywhen I needed it, so I think
it's going to hit a lot ofpeople.
Jillian Benfield (02:07):
I'm so glad to hear that my goal was to write
it in a way that it would applyto no matter what phase of life
you're in, so thank you.
Ellen Krause (02:14):
Yes, absolutely.
So we're here today to talkabout this concept of and and
you have the ampersand in thebook and it's really the holding
of multiple emotions togetherat the same time.
So, as we dive in here, tell usa little bit about yourself and
(02:35):
the circumstances that sparkedyour exploration of this topic.
Jillian Benfield (02:40):
Sure.
So my first book is called theGift of the Unexpected, and that
was about my second child'sDown syndrome diagnosis and how
that really upended everything.
It upended my world but also myworldview, my belief system,
and I really had to deconstructwhat I believed and reconstruct
those beliefs based ondisability being introduced into
(03:02):
my life.
And so I had already gonethrough this very upending
transformative process for acouple of years alongside my son
Anderson, and then, when he wasnot quite two years old, I had
a miscarriage and then gotpregnant again and we thought
all was well.
(03:22):
And then I went to a 14 weekultrasound and I told my husband
not to come, because those arepretty typically, you know,
there wasn't even supposed to bean ultrasound that day pretty
uneventful, and this was mythird child.
But when I got in there theycouldn't find a heartbeat again.
Finally we got back to a roomand this time his stomach was
(03:43):
like almost double the size ofhis head and we knew something
was wrong.
And eventually, after weekafter week after week of doctor
appointments, they diagnosed himwith something called posterior
urethral valves, which is avery serious and sometimes fatal
condition.
It's a blockage in the urethraand it affects kidney
development and lung development, and we knew we were in for a
(04:04):
very rocky ride with thispregnancy.
And in the middle of this, atthe time, my husband was
military and so we were moving.
So we got this diagnosis andthen we were moving to Texas.
Anyways, we got to San Antonio,where we were stationed, and
realized we were going to haveto deliver in Houston.
I was going to have to liveaway from my other two children
at a Ronald McDonald house inorder to give birth to him, and
(04:28):
then we were in the NICU and hadfetal intervention surgery and
all of these things.
And we come to find out that hedid not end up having a
blockage in his urethra.
He had all of these symptoms,but when they went to go ablate
the valves, there were nonethere.
And we thought we experiencedand still believe we experienced
this miracle.
(04:48):
And yet, even with that beingsaid, he still had a very
difficult first one to two yearsof life.
And so that's where I was whenI discovered this concept of,
and I had a toddler with adisability and associated
medical illnesses that werecoming along with that
disability at the time, and Ihad this infant who was very
(05:12):
sickly.
He had a nephrostomy too.
He had clubbed feet.
I had 18 specialists betweenthe two boys at one point, oh my
goodness, and I was drowning.
I mean it was just such adifficult time and yet I was
grateful.
I was because it could havebeen so much worse, right.
And so I just felt thisoverwhelm.
I felt this overwhelm ofemotions because I should have
(05:36):
just been being grateful, right,Because he could have.
He could have died, he couldhave been way worse off, he
could have had lung issues andhe didn't.
And yet it was still sodifficult what we were going
through.
And that's when I came acrossthis article by another author
who had lost a child and it wasa baby, and her brother ended up
(05:57):
having another baby and hertherapist asked her how she was
doing with that and she saidwell, I'm really glad the baby's
healthy, but I'm also stillvery sad about losing my baby.
And the therapist responded andyou're really sad, you don't
have to choose.
You can be really grateful thatthis nephew or niece, I can't
(06:22):
remember, was born healthy andyou are still allowed to be sad
over your own loss.
And I was sitting in mygrandmother's hand-me-down
recliner feeding my infant withmy toddler, watching Sesame
Street and we had already beento two appointments that day and
I just started crying and Irealized that I could be both.
(06:44):
I could be sad over how hard mylife was at that point and it
was hard and I could also begrateful that the worst had not
come to pass and that reallystarted me on a journey of
viewing life through an and lens, which has changed so much for
(07:07):
me, both in times of completeturmoil, in times of rebuilding
and in times like now where lifeis just kind of at a steady
pace.
Ellen Krause (07:16):
Yes, I think there is something so freeing about
that, to allow you to experiencethese multiple emotions at the
same time and I just want togive you a little example.
When I'm reading your story andat the same time, I'm
(07:36):
experiencing my own sort ofwe're in a period of order where
we knew things were expected,your children grow up, they get
married, they move out and youbecome an empty nester and there
is great joy in that experienceof your children finding the
love of their life and gettingmarried and moving away perhaps.
(08:01):
Yet at the same time, why am Iso sad?
Like I did have these veryconflicting emotions, and you
know understanding that it'sokay to have both, like you're
allowed, like one doesn't negatethe other.
I think it's just a steptowards healing and I know you
(08:23):
talk a little bit more aboutthat as well.
Jillian Benfield (08:25):
I think so too .
I think it is a step towardshealing, because I think that
we're in a culture, both on alarge scale and also on a church
scale as well, where we areoften told to focus on the
positive and, of course, you'rehappy for your children and
their growth, and this is what'ssupposed to happen, and all
these things are good things,and it's also sad that it's an
(08:50):
ending and this transition thatyou're in and both of those
things are allowed.
And when we downplay the hardthings, we're not being honest
with God, we're not being honestwith ourselves, and then what
ends up happening is we're notbeing honest with other people
too, and we end up making otherpeople feel more alone when
(09:12):
their sad things are happeningand we just try to shine a light
on the good things that arehappening.
They know good things arehappening too, and maybe they do
need somebody to help them seethe light.
Sometimes it's also okay for usto be honest about our dark
things.
I think that is healthyspiritually, mentally and
(09:35):
physically.
Ellen Krause (09:37):
Yes, absolutely.
You've really highlighted a lotof these different darkness and
light.
Highlighted a lot of thesedifferent darkness and light,
difficult and beautiful from andto hope and trust, honesty and
gratitude.
There's so many of these thatsort of bubbled up to the
(09:59):
surface of the context in whichyou were talking about.
Was there any particularexample that's coming to mind in
your life right now?
Jillian Benfield (10:09):
Yeah, I think now my youngest son, I have to
say all of his medical issueshave pretty much been resolved
and he is very much living likea typical eight-year-old boy.
However, my middle son, who hasDown syndrome, is a lesson, a
constant lesson, in living inthe and, for instance, right now
we're going through an advocacystruggle with the school where
(10:33):
we want them to allow him to goon a hybrid schedule where he
would receive therapy that theydon't offer twice a week at an
outside clinic and school theother three days a week, and we
think we have the law on ourside and research on our side
and all of these things.
And just one person at thatmeeting said no.
And so I would say, like my andright now is I am mad, I'm
(10:57):
being honest, I'm angry, I'mdisappointed, and I am also
grateful that we have theresources to keep pursuing this,
that I have the kind of jobwith flexibility, that I know
that I can make this worksomehow, some way I'm going to
find a way.
And also, just in general forhim, like parenting a child with
(11:21):
a significant disability is thehardest thing I've ever done
and it is also one of mygreatest gifts.
That's just true, because ofall the things that I have
unlearned and learned and how Ihave transformed.
Alongside parenting him, I amliving in a constant state of
(11:41):
and and I think really for allof us we probably have that to
some degree, but I see it themost through parenting my son
with a disability, and for thatI am very grateful of children
(12:09):
with disabilities in that ourchurch sponsored an event.
Ellen Krause (12:10):
It was a prom event for people with
disabilities and it was likeeven into young adults and some
adults actually, and there werea couple hundred people at this
event.
Every disabled person had avolunteer partner who spent the
evening with them at dinner andthen they had dancing and at the
(12:31):
end of that night I said tomyself these parents of disabled
children are.
It's unbelievably incredible tobe walking that life with that
child into adulthood and, likeyou said, it's ongoing right
(12:54):
With other children who grow anddevelop into adulthood.
There's a different transitionthat takes place and I was just
in awe.
I was like these people areincredible, the disabled people,
parents.
It was just such an awesome,awesome event.
Jillian Benfield (13:12):
Yeah, I think the trick there is.
There's always challenges withkids with disabilities, right,
because there are societalbarriers that they inevitably
face and we face alongside thembeing their parents.
And you know, there's theseInstagram accounts and such that
only focus on the shiny partsof disability, and then there's
other Instagram accounts thatonly complain about being a
(13:35):
parent with a disability, rightand like.
Neither of those are helpful.
In my eyes, it's finding thathonesty of those struggles and
also's an aging parent thatwe're taking care of.
(14:09):
Maybe it's becoming an emptynester, maybe it is a strained
relationship with someone, maybewe've been betrayed by someone.
Everybody you know has somethingdifficult in their lives,
whether it's in the forefront oftheir lives right now, or maybe
it's taking a background seatat the moment.
But we all have struggles.
And how do we move forward withthose struggles?
(14:30):
While not totally succumbing tothe struggle, but also not
ignoring the struggle andtherefore ignoring our real
heart and our real emotions andtherefore ignoring other
people's real struggles too?
And I think the way we moveforward in life where we can be
alive to it all, is through anand lens the discussion of this
(15:01):
topic around three phases.
Ellen Krause (15:04):
So order, disorder and reorder.
Tell us a little bit aboutthese concepts and how you came
to use them.
Jillian Benfield (15:19):
Yeah.
So probably the mostinfluential book definitely the
top three, for sure that I'veever read for me and my
spiritual life was WalterBrueggemann's the Spirituality
of the Psalms.
And I read that book while wewere living in Texas, while I
was in the space that we talkedabout earlier, with a very sick
infant and an also sicklytoddler, as well as a
four-year-old, typicallydeveloping daughter who had her
(15:40):
own needs and everything.
And so I came across this bookthat just gave me such
permission through the Psalmsthat said the Psalms really
teach us how to be inrelationship with God.
Over half of them are laments,and that was so eyeopening to me
, because those aren't thePsalms that we're focused on in
(16:02):
church or if you have adevotional there's, you don't
see, you know they're not frontand center.
These Psalms that are lamentingand demanding justice from God
and are it can be angry.
And so through that book,walter Brueggemann says that we
are all in a phase of eitherorientation, disorientation or
(16:22):
reorientation, and I renamedthat order disorder reorder for
my book.
And order is a place wherethings are just kind of humming
along.
I would say for most of us wespend most of our lives in a
place of order.
That's where we are right now,where we have struggles in our
lives, but our lives have notbeen turned upside down.
We're not in an upside downphase right now.
(16:44):
Life is just kind of steady.
That's order.
Disorder is when that big,unexpected event comes into your
life or maybe it is an expectedevent, maybe like a death of a
parent or something but nobodycan quite prepare for the grief
that comes with even events thatare expected.
That's disorder.
And reorder is when we arereacquainted with the goodness
(17:08):
of God and how God has broughtforth new life out of that
seemingly dead situation.
So that's how I structured thebook.
It's like how can we practicethis honesty that we see in the
Psalms, no matter what phase oflife we are in?
(17:29):
And although the Psalms aresuch a radical act of honesty
and often filled with lament,they're also so very full of
hope and also so very full ofjoy and so very full of praise.
Maybe not every single one, butoften, like Psalm 13 is
probably my favorite passage inthe Bible.
It starts with how long, lord,will you forget me forever?
(17:52):
How long will you hide yourface from me?
And then it ends after goingthrough the lament it ends in,
but I trust in your unfailinglove that you are good to me,
you know.
So I think that the Psalms aresuch a lesson in, and they're
such a lesson in being radicallyhonest with God and also being
(18:16):
completely alive to the goodnessof God at the same time, and I
think that's how we are calledto live.
I think we are called to bealive to it all.
Ellen Krause (18:29):
Absolutely, and sometimes we feel guilty about
that, which I think that's whatI love about that you're
actually talking about it sothat we can realize.
No, we don't have to feelguilty for having this mixed set
of emotions, and the Psalms arejust.
You know, that was a Psalm ofDavid and he himself went
(18:56):
through so many different trialsand expressed his anger,
sadness, all these differentthings, but in the end, like you
said, he always looped backaround and said but you, Lord, I
will trust.
Jillian Benfield (19:06):
Right.
I think the goodness of God isalways somehow, some way at work
, even in our darkest momentsand even when we can't see it,
and that's okay if we can't seeit at the time.
It's just knowing that somehowGod is working beneath the
surface in ways we cannot see,because God is the God of
(19:27):
resurrection and will bring newlife out of dead things.
And if we can hold on to thatin our darkest moments, knowing
that God has there's no depththat he has not been to, I think
that we can grieve and hold onto hope that somehow goodness
will be seen, be made from thissituation.
Ellen Krause (19:49):
Absolutely, and in the book you give wonderful
scripture references to howJesus himself experienced these
very same things.
Well, for people who arelistening today, if they could
take away just one thing fromthis conversation about
overwhelmed and grateful, whatwould you want it to be?
Jillian Benfield (20:11):
I would say that we are meant to be full
humans.
We are meant to be alive toeverything.
If we only lean into the darkthings, then we become hardened
and cynical.
And if we only lean into thelight things, if we end up
gaslighting other people andalso ourselves into thinking
(20:33):
that no life is great, then welose our humanity, we lose our
ability to connect with God in areal deep way and we lose our
ability to connect with God in areal deep way and we lose our
ability to connect with others.
So what I would leave peoplewith is that the and way of life
is the life that we are calledto live.
(20:54):
We are supposed to acknowledgethe darkness and we are supposed
to also keep our eyes open tothe light in and out of every
single day.
And if we can just make thatshift of maybe for me, I pray my
and every morning before Istart work.
So I tell God what is paining me, what is angering me, what is
(21:18):
frustrating me, disappointing me, and I tell God how I am
grateful for whatever it is thatday.
Sometimes it's connected tothat first thing, like the
example I gave you earlier wherethe advocacy thing with my son.
Sometimes it's connected, andsometimes I can't find the light
in that situation, and yet Ican still be thankful for how
(21:39):
the river in my backyard issparkling that morning and
seeing God in it, and so if Icould leave people with anything
, it's just that I think thatwe're supposed to hold the
darkness and we're supposed toalso keep our eyes open to the
light, and I think if we do that, we become more honest and more
(22:00):
grateful and the transformedpeople we're supposed to be.
I think healing requiresgratitude, and we are on a
healing path that lasts ourwhole life, and so, if we can be
honest and grateful, I thinkthat's the path forward toward
Jesus and toward a more fulllife.
Ellen Krause (22:18):
Absolutely.
I was thinking, you know, asyou were talking there, just
that, how incredible it is thatGod put you with your son to be
the advocate that he needs inthat situation, and we'll be
praying that it works out andwe'll also be able to impact
(22:41):
other children going forwardthat might be in the same
circumstances.
Thank you for just beingwilling to share those examples
with us.
Jillian, how can listeners findout more information about your
incredible book and the workthat you do?
Jillian Benfield (22:59):
Yeah, so I have a website,
jillianbenfieldcom.
I am on Facebook at JillianBenfield and Instagram at
Jillian Benfield blog, and mybook is available for 30% off
plus free shipping If you orderdirectly from Baker books.
It's actually 40% off forpresale, but I don't know when
this will air, and then it'salso available on Amazon and
(23:20):
Barnes and Noble.
So yeah, that's about it.
Ellen Krause (23:24):
Oh, wonderful, All right.
Before we go, I have to ask youour favorite questions here for
guests what Bible is your go-toBible and what translation is
it?
Jillian Benfield (23:35):
I would say the translation would be NSRV,
also NIV, also NIV, and theBible app.
I do subscribe to YouVersion,the premium app, because I like
to read the commentariesalongside scripture, especially
when I'm writing, but I've foundthat to be for a while.
(23:58):
I went to seminary.
I'm not going to seminaryanymore.
I realized I couldn't add thatinto being a mom and a writer
and everything.
But it allows me to get bettercontext and that's probably my
favorite tool that I use.
Ellen Krause (24:11):
Okay, awesome.
How about Bible journaling?
Do you have any favorite Biblejournaling supplies?
Jillian Benfield (24:19):
I don't.
I think, because I write somuch as it is day to day that I
don't also journal, but I dostart my morning.
I just I heard on a podcastthat people like one of the top
10 things people love to talkabout is their routine.
So I'm just going to tell youmy morning routine and maybe you
can get something out of it.
So if you have a two storyhouse, this has been a game
(24:41):
changer for me.
We put like a little bar cart inour room with a coffee machine
and I wake up and I go directlyto the coffee machine and make
myself coffee and then I getback into bed, which is
delightful.
It's such a nice way to startthe day and I start that with my
Bible reading and I kind of Idon't stick, I kind of jump
(25:04):
around at whatever I'm using,whether it's a devotional or a
book of common prayer, butthat's how I start my day while
drinking my coffee, which isperfect for your podcast.
Maybe you need to get coffeeand get back into bed.
I also start super early though.
So just for context, justbecause I like to work out
(25:25):
before the kids get up andeverything, so that's why I get
back into bed, because it's veryearly when I wake up.
Ellen Krause (25:32):
Wow, I love that.
That is such a fun tip.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, yeah, well, we appreciateyou so much joining us today.
It's been such a treat and justso encouraging for learning how
to hold these messy, difficultfeelings and circumstances
honestly and faithfully beforeGod and being grateful so to our
(25:59):
listeners.
If this conversation resonatedwith you, I highly recommend
picking up a copy of Jillian'sbook Overwhelmed and Grateful
and learning more about herwriting and advocacy at her
website.
We will have all of those linksin our show notes and if
today's episode has encouragedyou, would you please consider
(26:22):
leaving a review and sharing itwith a friend.
It really helps support ourwork.
Thanks again for being with usand we'll see you next time at
the Coffee and Bible Timepodcast.
Thank you.
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