September 4, 2025 • 39 mins
Dr. Juli Slattery joins Ellen to discuss how Christians can find healing when struggling with sexual sin. From identity traps to rethinking sex as covenant, this powerful conversation offers practical steps and gospel-centered hope for anyone battling shame, addiction, or confusion around sexuality.
Scriptures referenced:
- 2 Corinthians 5:17
- Galatians 2:20
- Luke 15:11-32
- 1 Corinthians 6:9-11
- Matthew 11:28
- Romans 12:1
Surrendered Sexuality: How Knowing Jesus Changes...Everything
Juli's favorites:
ESV Study Bible | Simply Bible: A Blank Inductive Bible Study Journal | Logos Bible Software (on sale now!)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ellen Krause (00:04):
At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
Our goal is to help you delightin God's Word and thrive in
Christian living.
Each week we talk to subjectmatter experts who broaden your
biblical understanding,encourage you in hard times and
provide life-building tips toenhance your Christian walk.
We are so glad you have joinedus.
(00:25):
Welcome back to the Coffee andBible Time podcast.
I'm Ellen, your host.
Sexuality is a topic that'srarely mentioned in most
churches and yet it often sitsat the heart of our deepest
struggles doubt, shame,loneliness and even anger toward
(00:47):
God.
Our guest today, dr JulieSlattery, puts it plainly when
she says when you look around,it can seem as if everyone else
has their lives together.
Could anyone else be sufferingor enslaved as you are?
Where are the spaces to talkabout your sexual desires, your
sexless marriage or your pornaddiction?
(01:08):
Who is safe enough to hold yourquestions, your anger and your
trauma?
These are the kinds of honest,courageous questions that we're
going to be diving in today.
And to ignore your sexualwounds, to step over your sexual
pain or dismiss your sexualquestions, as Julie so
beautifully says in her book,we'll eventually tear away your
(01:32):
love and commitment to the Lord,jesus Christ, and we don't want
that to happen for any of us.
Well, I am so excited to welcomeDr Julie Slattery back to the
podcast.
Julie is the president andco-founder of Authentic Intimacy
, a ministry helping people makesense of God and sexuality.
She is the host of the weeklypodcast Java with Julie, and she
(01:57):
has authored or co-authored 14different books.
Today, she will guide usthrough what it means to
surrender our sexuality to Godand experience real healing and
wholeness.
Dr Julie, welcome back toCoffee and Bible Time.
Dr. Juli Slattery (02:14):
Thank you for having me back.
I look forward to ourconversation.
Ellen Krause (02:18):
Yes, thank you so much for being here again.
You've been working full-timein the space of Christian
sexuality for over 13 years nowand over that time can you share
with us how you've seen thechurch struggle to effectively
speak to these real personalissues that people are facing
(02:40):
around sexuality?
Dr. Juli Slattery (02:43):
Sure, yeah, when I go back to when I first
started the ministry AuthenticIntimacy it was honestly
difficult to get any church toeven talk about the topic, so it
was just sort of taboo, like wedon't talk about those issues
in church.
And every now and then I stillwill hear somebody say that like
(03:03):
it's just not appropriate totalk about these issues in
church.
But honestly, I think we've hita place in our culture that's
impacted the church so much thateven maybe the most
conservative or elderly spacesaround the church are like, yeah
, this is a problem.
Maybe they don't see it as aproblem in their generation, but
(03:26):
you can't be around people 35and younger without recognizing
the levels of pornography useand the confusion around gender
and sexual identity.
You see the statistics onsexual abuse and sexual violence
.
It's just everywhere.
So I think we have, over thelast 13 years, made progress in
(03:51):
at least being willing toaddress these issues, but I
still think we need help.
You know if you've inheritedgenerations of silence around
the topic.
It's a very complicated topic,it's pain-filled, and so a lot
of pastors and Christian leadershave a heart to speak into it,
(04:11):
but they don't know where tostart, so sometimes the
conversations can be confusingor we just go to the rules of
what God says what not to dowithout really giving people the
hope and a pathway of what itlooks like to sort of reconcile
their sexual questions andbrokenness with the goodness of
God.
So yeah, so it's definitely alearning journey, I think, for
(04:34):
the church as a whole, and I'mthankful that I feel like God
kind of gave me a running headstart for the sake of the church
, to equip people on how to havethese conversations in a way
that's really gospel-centered.
Ellen Krause (04:49):
Yes, and I really applaud you for sticking with it
for all this time and pushingthe charge forward.
Let's talk about why you thinkthe average Christian has
difficulty surrendering theirsexuality to God.
Dr. Juli Slattery (05:08):
Well, I think the average Christian really
wonders whether God really caresabout this part of their life.
So maybe they're convinced Godcares about the rules and he's
upset if I'm breaking the rules.
But I don't know if the averageChristian thinks about it
beyond that.
God really cares about mybrokenness If you're married.
(05:31):
God really cares about mysexual intimacy in marriage.
We just don't think about itlike that, partly because
there's been such a pattern ofsilence and of squeamishness.
But then I think there's a realbarrier too, where the average
Christian is dealing with hardquestions that they don't feel
like have been adequatelyanswered, like how could a
(05:54):
loving God have allowed thetrauma experience to happen?
Why didn't he rescue me fromthat?
Or how could a loving, good Godtell me that I can't act out
what I feel is life-giving to mein terms of a sexual
relationship?
Or you know, like Christiansseem very angry and judgmental.
(06:15):
Is God like that too?
So I think there are barriersfor the average Christian to
bring their sexuality to God,their shame of.
I just can't stop sinning.
I can't stop looking atpornography.
I just feel like God's alwaysdisappointed in me.
So this is the lastconversation you want to have if
you're in that situation andGod just doesn't seem
(06:38):
approachable in this area of ourlives.
So I think we'd rather notsurrender it to him.
We don't trust him enough tosurrender something so personal.
Ellen Krause (06:49):
Yes, and you know, that's one of the things that I
pulled out was something thatyou said.
You said in the book you won'tsurrender to someone you don't
trust and you can't trustsomeone you don't know.
And most of us just don't knowJesus well enough to surrender
an aspect of our life that ispersonal, vulnerable and painful
(07:11):
.
That's why it is knowing Jesusthat changes everything, and I
thought that was so beautiful.
Dr. Juli Slattery (07:20):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's really true, and I
think you can grow up in thechurch and even know the Bible
without knowing Jesus in such apersonal way that you're willing
to trust him with such animportant part of your life was
(07:46):
something that I kind of justwanted to touch on as well.
Ellen Krause (07:49):
I do think a lot of people struggle with loving
God with their heart.
They have a lot of headknowledge and I thought you were
quite vulnerable with sharingthat about yourself and how
things change, and can you maybejust encourage someone today
who is feeling that way too?
Dr. Juli Slattery (08:09):
Yeah, I just want you to know that God knows
us and he wants an intimaterelationship with us.
He doesn't just want obedienceand compliance Otherwise he
could have created us without afree will but he wants our whole
(08:30):
life to be surrendered toknowing him, and that does
include not just our headknowledge, but our affection,
just what gives us joy.
And, as I shared in the bookthat you mentioned, like I was
probably my late thirties, earlyforties before I really started
to realize that I was reallybusy serving God and learning
(08:52):
about his word, but didn't knowwhat it was to have that
intimate relationship with himwhere what he said really went
to my heart and not just to myhead.
So if that's you, I would justsay, like, don't settle for just
head knowledge of God, becauseyou're going to hit a wall where
it's not enough just to knowwhat the Bible says.
(09:14):
You have to know that God seesyou, that he cares about you,
that he loves you, that hespeaks life into you, and so you
know that really for me didchange everything, and I've seen
that happen with others as well.
Ellen Krause (09:27):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Well, identity is kind of thestarting point.
When you start describing theprocess of surrendering your
sexuality, you begin withidentity.
Tell us why it's so importantto start there.
Dr. Juli Slattery (09:43):
Tell us why it's so important to start there
.
Yeah, so the way I really triedto structure this book was to
walk people through like whatare the various aspects of what
it looks like to surrender mysexuality to God?
And I think most of us thinkright away oh God wants me to
get rid of sin, like he wants meto stop doing the thing that
I'm doing, whatever it might be.
(10:04):
But actually when we read thescripture, god's first work in
us is not that we get rid of sin.
His first work in us is thatthrough the death of Jesus
Christ and the indwelling of theHoly Spirit, we actually become
new creatures, become newcreations.
It says that in 2 Corinthians5.17.
(10:26):
And most of us who have come toChrist have been baptized.
And that's symbolic of I amdead to my old life and I'm
raised in the life andresurrection of Christ and
newness of life.
So I am a new person and thatmeans that through the Holy
Spirit, god begins to renew mymind, he begins to change my
(10:48):
passions, what I love and what Idon't love.
It means I belong in the bodyof Christ.
It means I'm a son or daughterof the King, and it actually is
when those truths take root inour life that we can start to
see change in behavior.
And I think for a lot ofChristians they try to do it the
other way around, like if I canget my behavior under control,
(11:10):
if I can follow all the rulesthat God has for me, then I will
feel like I'm a new creationand God's just waiting for me to
clean up my act.
But what we see in the NewTestament over and over again is
is it's that the work isalready finished and that we
literally are clothed in therighteousness of Christ, that he
doesn't see us based on our sinor our struggles, and so we
(11:32):
have to learn not to seeourselves based on our sin or
our struggles or anything elsethat the world uses to define us
.
So I really do believe thatmost of our sexual questions and
struggles are actually rootedin an identity rather than our
behavior, and when we can reallyroot out our identity and know
(11:53):
what it is to start walking andwho God says that we are.
Then we start to have the powerand the perspective to address
the behavior patterns that justseem to not want to change.
Ellen Krause (12:04):
Right, and you had said as well that every other
identity pales in comparison tothe most important thing about
me I belong to the Lord and I amhis.
Dr. Juli Slattery (12:19):
Yes, amen.
Ellen Krause (12:19):
Yeah, you need to be grounded in that, like you
said before, we can begin totackle these other things.
You said there's four identitytraps that can impact how our
identity is affected.
Walk us through those and howthey show up in our lives.
Dr. Juli Slattery (12:40):
Yeah, boy, there are so many different
identity traps, but I tried tonarrow it down to four that
particularly can play out inthis conversation of our
sexuality.
So the first one is what I callthe self-discovery identity
trap, and that is very commonfor today's generation, like
(13:01):
particularly the youngergenerations have been raised to
believe that what is most trueabout me is what I feel, what I
experience, what I discoverabout myself, and young men who
believe if I really want to bewhole and authentic, I need to
(13:21):
look inward, I need to decidewho am I attracted to, what is
most true about me in terms ofmy desires, my experiences,
which is why we see so manydifferent identities related to
sexuality LGBTQ plus, even thosewho are just attracted
(13:42):
heterosexually we have a labelfor that.
Or if you just are comfortablein your body, you're cisgender
we have a label for that.
These labels are all very, verynew.
All the things I just mentionedhave only been labels created
within the last 150 years orshorter.
So people never throughouthistory thought of themselves in
(14:04):
terms of who am I sexually andwhat do I feel and who do I
desire.
But we see in today'sgeneration there was a I think
it was a Pew or a Gallupresearch poll that found that
almost 30% of Gen Z identifiesas somewhere in the LGBTQ
spectrum.
So we're talking about over onein four.
(14:24):
And so this has really taken ahold of particularly the younger
generations.
To say if I want to know who Iam, I have to know who I'm
attracted to, what I desire.
And boy, the scripture tells ussomething completely different.
It tells us that, you know, weare going to have thoughts and
desires that are from our flesh.
Even if we have God-givendesires that draws towards human
(14:49):
beings and God created sex,it's all twisted by our flesh
and the enemy and the sinfulworld that we live in.
And so the scripture tells usto look at our desires actually
very skeptically, as that's theold me.
How do I crucify that and liveaccording to Christ's design for
(15:09):
me?
So that's the first one.
The second two are kind ofrelated.
They're the shame andperformance trap and they're
kind of the two sides of thesame coin, which is I define
myself by how well I live up tosome moral standard.
And again, there are people whowould say well, I'm a virgin, I
(15:29):
never stepped outside of mymarriage Like I'm doing this
right.
Therefore I'm better than otherpeople, like I've earned God's
favor because I've kept therules.
And then there are other peopleon the other side who are like
I haven't kept the rules and I'mstill not keeping them, and I
feel forever shameful andcondemned.
(15:50):
I feel like you know, god, thatGod doesn't love me as much as
he must love other Christians.
And really we really see thisplay out in the Gospels and the
story that Jesus told of theprodigal son and the brother who
stayed at home.
And we see that both of thesetwo guys had a barrier in really
understanding the love of theFather.
(16:10):
The father I'm going to go findlife outside and then had to
overcome shame of I'm unworthyto be here.
I'll just be your servant, justaccept me.
And the father throws a lavishparty.
And then the brother who isstuck in the performance trap,
(16:32):
like he can't get over the factthat this brother, who
squandered everything like hasthe favor of the father, like
he's really stuck in legalismand I see that so often related
to sexuality that we justmeasure ourselves by some moral
standard and by rules instead ofknowing who we are in the blood
(16:54):
of Christ.
And Paul said you know to helists a bunch of sins and he
goes that's what some of youwere, but that's not who you are
anymore.
You know, you are now washedand justified and sanctified by
the Lord Jesus Christ and you'refilled with the Holy Spirit,
and so both brothers get levelset by that.
And then, finally, there's arelationship trap, which I think
(17:18):
is also really common.
You know, we live in a couple'sworld and so a lot of people
define their value and worthbased on does somebody want to
be with me?
Am I attractive?
Why am I single?
Why?
Why did my husband betray me?
Like they measure their valueand worth based on what's
(17:38):
happening relationally to them.
Ellen Krause (17:44):
So those are the four most common that I see
people falling into and I'm sureif you're listening to this you
can relate to one of those.
I know I certainly can.
When I think back on my own,just even balancing more than
one of those right, evenbalancing more than one of those
(18:07):
right, I mean I see shame andperformance both in my
background and kind of balancingboth of those.
So I love that you sort of bringthis to light in a way that we
can wrap our minds around andsay, no, we don't need to be
identified as those things, andthat, through the power of the
Holy Spirit, we can take thatnext step towards recognizing
(18:31):
what God has in store for us.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout rethinking sexuality.
A big part of your message ishelping us think differently
about the purpose of sexuality.
Why is that so important?
Dr. Juli Slattery (18:47):
It's really been neglected in our
conversations about biblicalsexuality.
And so what happens is we talkabout the rules, okay.
So we talk about.
God designed sex for a man anda woman within the covenant of
marriage, and most Christiansagain, particularly younger
generations, but older as wellbelieve that the purpose of
(19:11):
sexuality is for me to expresswho I love and to express the
fullness of who I am.
That it's based on sexualchemistry.
You can't really live afulfilled life if you're not
expressing sexually thosefeelings.
So that framework of ourpurpose for sexuality works for
(19:35):
the guy or the girl who, at 22,meets somebody they're really,
really in love with, who happensto be the opposite gender.
So you've got a man and a womanwho fall for each other and
then they have a pretty goodmarriage.
They don't have a lot of trials, they don't have a lot of
(19:56):
problems with loving each other.
Well, that works.
Okay, we can check all theboxes.
God gave me desire.
He met my desire through thisperson.
We have great sex all the time,in good times and bad times.
We're always in love.
But let me just say that'sprobably about 5% of the
population, because the realityof it is that even if you fall
(20:21):
head over heels for somebody.
They might be married tosomebody else or they might not
be interested in you.
Or maybe you get married andthen five years later you're not
attracted to each other anymore.
You have outside temptationsand there are other people who
are attracted to the same sex.
And so my quote-unquote soulmate, the person I have chemistry
(20:43):
with God, says I can't bemarried to or it might be again
a hard marriage, like why wouldGod want me to stay in a
marriage and a sex life?
That feels very unfulfilling.
And so we have to say, okay,did God really say that's a
purpose for sex?
And actually, when we look atscripture, that's not the
purpose for sex.
God did not create sex to be anexpression of romantic desire
(21:08):
or sexual chemistry.
And people are like, wait whatyou know?
Like God actually created sexto be a seal and a symbol of
covenant love, of the choice ofa man and a woman partnering
their lives together and sayingwe will be faithful to one
another and we will work onsexual love and we will work on
(21:33):
friendship, we will work onbeing connected and attached.
And so we really have to changeour paradigm.
And why would God create it?
To be a symbol of covenant love, because the whole idea of
marriage and one flesh, thescripture tells us, is a living
metaphor of the covenantrelationship God has with his
(21:54):
people, and so we're a livingmetaphor in marriage, and sex is
meant to be a part of thatliving metaphor.
So when we take it outside ofmarriage and say, oh, this is
just an expression of what'sinside of me, we not only mess
up relationships, we also aremessing up the metaphor that is
(22:15):
meant to tell us about God'sfaithful love to us.
Ellen Krause (22:21):
That is so fascinating and so helpful, then
what specifically needs toshift in our thinking, then?
Dr. Juli Slattery (22:29):
Yeah, it's a lot, honestly, because, even as
people are hearing me say thatthey're like, I don't quite
understand that.
We have been so indoctrinatedinto thinking that sex is about
expressing what's inside of me,and part of what's happened,
even in the Christian church, iswe've just taken the world's
(22:50):
message and try to Christianizeit, like you can have what you
want, but it has to be in theserules, these rules.
And so we have a lot of work todo to go back to the scripture
and to show and disciple people,including ourselves, in the
thinking that God's primarypurpose is not for us to reveal
what's in us, but for us to knowwhat he's revealing about
(23:12):
himself.
Um, and so I wrote a bookseveral years ago called
Rethinking Sexuality.
That unpacks some of this.
I wrote about this in SurrenderSexuality Like we have to change
our backdrop of what we thinkthe purpose of marriage and sex
is and not just try to have anegotiation with the culture's
(23:32):
view.
And that does take work, ittakes discipleship.
But until we do that,christians are going to feel
like, okay, god might have saidthis, but I don't think he's
good because he's keeping mefrom something good.
But when we can change ourthinking we actually see a
richer goodness in God's designand his plan.
Ellen Krause (23:52):
Absolutely, you know.
Something that comes to my mindis that I think it's so
important for Christians to havethat biblical foundation,
because I think about even justthe word covenant that you said
is not a common word in the newgeneration to even know what
(24:15):
that means, how important it wasto God why he made covenants
and all those things are.
It's just so helpful to havethat background and I love that
you help explain that for peoplewho might not know.
Dr. Juli Slattery (24:33):
Yeah, it's a learning curve.
Honestly, it took me a lot ofyears to really get my mind
around that, so it takes somerepetition.
Ellen Krause (24:43):
Let's talk a little bit about practicality
and with people who arelistening that might be
struggling.
Why is it often ineffective tojust simply try to stop a sexual
sin pattern, and what shouldpeople do instead?
Dr. Juli Slattery (25:00):
Yeah.
So sexual sin patterns are socomplex, they involve our
biology, our neurology.
We know more that we can studythe brain, that because sex kind
of brings forth a lot ofneurochemicals that are very
powerful, it creates neuralpathways in our brain.
(25:22):
So when you have a sexualexperience, your brain can be
experiencing dopamine, which isthe pleasure hormone, something
called PEA, which is like anovelty kind of opiate, natural
opiate kind of thing.
Endorphins, which calm you down.
Adrenaline, when something'snew and exciting and exciting.
(25:50):
If it's a sexual trauma you'veexperienced, it's cortisol and
stress, and your body and brainare processing those memories as
a trauma.
And so all these things impactthe brain because sex is
powerful.
And so what ends up happeningis we have these neural pathways
that are formed sometimes atvery young ages.
People are exposed topornography, for example, around
the ages of 10, 11, 12.
(26:12):
And so their brain experiencessomething powerful and new.
And then you learn to go backto that experience because it
was comforting, it waspleasurable, it felt good, and
so kids and teenagers will goback to pornography.
They go back to hookups ormasturbating or whatever it
(26:32):
might be to say that's how Ifind comfort, that's how I find
excitement when I'm bored,that's how I fall asleep,
because it brings relaxation,and every time you do that it
reinforces that neural pathway.
So let's say, on average you'vegot a young man, young woman
who's been doing this for 12, 15years and they feel a lot of
(26:55):
shame and guilt about it.
They go to church and they hearGod doesn't want you behaving
in those behaviors and they say,okay, I don't want to do this
anymore.
God, I promise I'm not going todo this anymore.
But they've trained their brainto go to those places when
they're stressed, when they'relonely, when they're feeling
discomfort.
They've built identity aroundit.
(27:17):
Where, let's say, there'ssomebody who dates a lot and
hooks up a lot, or sex a lot,people are now expecting that
from them.
They have a sense of self thatthis is what I do.
So they don't know how tochange all that.
And so then they start to feeleven more shame.
Everybody else seems likethey're not sinning like I am.
(27:38):
Why can't I stop?
And the enemy begins to speaklies.
And so this becomes a viciouspattern.
And let me just say it in theministry that I run, this
becomes a vicious pattern.
Let me just say it in theministry that I run, we will see
people in their 30s, 40s, 50s,60s who have never addressed
these patterns.
They just have decades ofexperience and shame and almost
(28:03):
like giving up.
I don't even know what else totry.
Then they feel like the powerof God isn't enough because
they're Christians.
But they can't stop, and sowhat this book that I wrote is
really doing is helping themaddress the layers and get help
for the layers that havereinforced this view of who they
are, reinforce the neurobiology, reinforce their relationships
(28:25):
and actually invite God into allthose layers, instead of just
trying to fix your behavior.
Ellen Krause (28:32):
And that really addresses more of the sexual
brokenness.
Would you say that people havereasons why they're doing what
they're doing?
In addition to that, brainneurology?
Dr. Juli Slattery (28:45):
You know it's so many layers.
I mean we can see it in thebrain, but you know you take,
for example, a married coupleand let's say one of them came
in with a pattern of usingpornography and is trying not to
but doesn't know how to enjoy.
Let's say it's the guy who'susing pornography.
It's not always that way.
But let's say now he can'tenjoy his wife, like he can't
(29:10):
even become aroused because hisbrain is tricked on pornography,
and so he starts saying I can'tlove my wife.
Well, so I'm just going to fallback to pornography.
She doesn't know why he's notengaging sexually.
She starts feeling rejected.
Five years later she discoversa pornography and she's
devastated.
And so now she has all thesethe shame, body image issues.
(29:32):
They have relational problem,and so these issues become very
complex because of the choiceswe make on the road, because of
the things we're not talkingabout, and so it's no longer
just a neurological problem,it's a spiritual problem and a
relational problem and anidentity problem of what's wrong
with me.
(29:54):
And that's why when you hear a30-minute sermon on God's design
for sex, people might agreetheologically, but they can't
get there experientially.
But Jesus wants to enter intoall those layers he wants to
enter into the relationalbrokenness and the shame and the
(30:15):
trauma and rewiring andretraining our brain, all of it.
And so I couldn't have writtenthis book 13 years ago because I
didn't know all of this.
But having observed and walkedwith thousands of people, I see
what happens when we inviteJesus not into just changing our
(30:36):
behavior but remaking us as newcreations, and I've seen people
find freedom and I've seencouples work through the worst
of betrayals.
But it can't just be behaviorfocused.
Ellen Krause (30:51):
Yeah, oh, my goodness Would you say if
someone's listening to this andsaying I'm exactly in that spot
going to your ministry orgetting a Christian marriage
counselor or something, whatwould you suggest for them?
Dr. Juli Slattery (31:07):
counselor or something.
What would you suggest for them?
Yeah, all of the above.
I would suggest you just startwith even between you and the
Lord and just saying God, I feellike I'm a mess and I don't
know what to do.
Would you help?
I've kept this from you, but Iwant to bring it to you.
(31:27):
And boy, jesus loves it when webring our messes.
He doesn't say clean yourselfup first and then come.
He says nope, you know all youwho are weary and heavy laden,
you know, come to me and findrest.
You know Romans, chapter 12,verse 1, paul just says in light
of God's mercy, offeryourselves as a living sacrifice
(31:48):
, because God sees that as holyand acceptable as a form of
worship.
And so that's the first step.
Is just, you know, likeacknowledging our need for God.
And then next steps are there,like at our ministry, we have
online book studies that aregoing through, books like
Surrender, sexuality and otherbooks.
So groups for men, groups forwomen and groups for married
(32:10):
couples, where you can just meetwith some other people and
start processing this stuff thatfeels like it's been stuck for
so long.
And then sometimes we do needto reach out to that Christian
counselor that can help withtrauma, that can help with
communication in marriage, canhelp with just emotional healing
.
So I think it's not just onestep, it's several that we
(32:34):
pursue in concert.
Ellen Krause (32:38):
And just you saying that I think that's kind
of the ending message that needsto be attached to that sermon,
Because if you just take aone-stab approach at it, I
imagine that that's going to beextremely difficult when a
person tries to change theirbehavior without addressing
their sexual brokenness.
Dr. Juli Slattery (32:59):
It is.
It is and you might have somesuccess with willpower and
putting on filters on yourdevices.
That's all good stuff, but wechange when God transforms our
hearts.
You know like we change when wecome to him and we just are
like I got nothing, Like mytricks are broken.
Whatever it takes, I need youto remake me.
(33:21):
That's when we see the mostdramatic transformation,
Absolutely.
Ellen Krause (33:28):
Well, where can our listeners go specifically to
learn more about your work andyour new book Surrendered
Sexuality?
Dr. Juli Slattery (33:38):
Yeah, you can learn about what I do at
AuthenticAnimacycom that's thename of our ministry and then we
have a podcast called Java withJulie.
You can find Surrender toSexuality, christianbookcom,
amazon wherever you might buybooks.
It should be available, butthanks for letting me share
about it.
Ellen Krause (33:57):
Absolutely, and we will make sure we include links
to those in our show notes.
Well before I let you go, Ijust want to ask you our
favorite questions here whatBible is your go-to Bible and
what translation is it?
Dr. Juli Slattery (34:12):
Yeah, I have a big study Bible that when I'm
home I like to study from.
But I also travel a lot, soI've learned to be flexible and
use all kinds of differentBibles but I think my go-to
translation I usually start withthe ESV.
That's my favorite translationto study, but then I also
(34:34):
especially if I'm studying apassage closely I like to pull
up other translations and seethe nuances of them.
Ellen Krause (34:42):
Yes, for sure, absolutely.
Do you have any favorite Biblejournaling supplies that you use
?
Dr. Juli Slattery (34:50):
I do.
I have a friend, her name isCarmen Beasley, and she created,
she creates these books calledSimply Bible and they like, take
you, like they just have thepassage and then they have all
these blocks that you fill out,like what do you observe,
interpret, what are keywords,what are some cross references
(35:10):
from this passage?
You know, like, what are themain points?
How do you apply it?
Write a prayer.
So I use that a lot justbecause I love the way it's laid
out and it makes me slow downand really pay attention to the
scripture in general about whatI'm learning.
So that's probably my favoritejournal tool.
Okay, wonderful.
Ellen Krause (35:32):
Lastly, what is your favorite app or website for
Bible study tools?
Dr. Juli Slattery (35:39):
Logos.
Yeah, I used to use Blue LetterBible and I still like that,
but lately I've gotten intoLogos.
I don't know how people say it,but that's my favorite.
Ellen Krause (35:50):
Yes, oh, it's absolutely incredible, and we
will include links to all ofJulie's favorites in our show
notes as well.
Well, dr Julie, thank you somuch for joining us today.
I'm just so grateful for yourwisdom, your compassion on this
topic of sexuality.
(36:10):
Your work is such a needed giftfor the church today.
Dr. Juli Slattery (36:14):
Well, thank you so much for letting me share
.
Ellen Krause (36:15):
This has been a real joy To those of you who are
listening, I hope you've beenreminded that our sexuality
isn't something we have to hidefrom God.
It's something we're invited tosurrender to him, just like
every other part of our lives.
And for those of you who arewrestling with questions, shame
(36:35):
or brokenness in this area, knowthat Jesus sees you and he is
not afraid of your story.
In fact, he wants to meet youright in the middle of it and
lead you toward healing andwholeness.
And you can start with DrJulie's book called Surrendered
Sexuality.
I highly recommend it.
(36:56):
So thank you for joining us inthe Coffee and Bible Time
podcast.
We will talk to you again soon.
You.
At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
Our goal is to help you delightin God's Word and thrive in
Christian living.
Each week we talk to subjectmatter experts who broaden your
biblical understanding,encourage you in hard times and
provide life-building tips toenhance your Christian walk.
We are so glad you have joinedus.
(00:25):
Welcome back to the Coffee andBible Time podcast.
I'm Ellen, your host.
Sexuality is a topic that'srarely mentioned in most
churches and yet it often sitsat the heart of our deepest
struggles doubt, shame,loneliness and even anger toward
(00:47):
God.
Our guest today, dr JulieSlattery, puts it plainly when
she says when you look around,it can seem as if everyone else
has their lives together.
Could anyone else be sufferingor enslaved as you are?
Where are the spaces to talkabout your sexual desires, your
sexless marriage or your pornaddiction?
(01:08):
Who is safe enough to hold yourquestions, your anger and your
trauma?
These are the kinds of honest,courageous questions that we're
going to be diving in today.
And to ignore your sexualwounds, to step over your sexual
pain or dismiss your sexualquestions, as Julie so
beautifully says in her book,we'll eventually tear away your
(01:32):
love and commitment to the Lord,jesus Christ, and we don't want
that to happen for any of us.
Well, I am so excited to welcomeDr Julie Slattery back to the
podcast.
Julie is the president andco-founder of Authentic Intimacy
, a ministry helping people makesense of God and sexuality.
She is the host of the weeklypodcast Java with Julie, and she
(01:57):
has authored or co-authored 14different books.
Today, she will guide usthrough what it means to
surrender our sexuality to Godand experience real healing and
wholeness.
Dr Julie, welcome back toCoffee and Bible Time.
Dr. Juli Slattery (02:14):
Thank you for having me back.
I look forward to ourconversation.
Ellen Krause (02:18):
Yes, thank you so much for being here again.
You've been working full-timein the space of Christian
sexuality for over 13 years nowand over that time can you share
with us how you've seen thechurch struggle to effectively
speak to these real personalissues that people are facing
(02:40):
around sexuality?
Dr. Juli Slattery (02:43):
Sure, yeah, when I go back to when I first
started the ministry AuthenticIntimacy it was honestly
difficult to get any church toeven talk about the topic, so it
was just sort of taboo, like wedon't talk about those issues
in church.
And every now and then I stillwill hear somebody say that like
(03:03):
it's just not appropriate totalk about these issues in
church.
But honestly, I think we've hita place in our culture that's
impacted the church so much thateven maybe the most
conservative or elderly spacesaround the church are like, yeah
, this is a problem.
Maybe they don't see it as aproblem in their generation, but
(03:26):
you can't be around people 35and younger without recognizing
the levels of pornography useand the confusion around gender
and sexual identity.
You see the statistics onsexual abuse and sexual violence
.
It's just everywhere.
So I think we have, over thelast 13 years, made progress in
(03:51):
at least being willing toaddress these issues, but I
still think we need help.
You know if you've inheritedgenerations of silence around
the topic.
It's a very complicated topic,it's pain-filled, and so a lot
of pastors and Christian leadershave a heart to speak into it,
(04:11):
but they don't know where tostart, so sometimes the
conversations can be confusingor we just go to the rules of
what God says what not to dowithout really giving people the
hope and a pathway of what itlooks like to sort of reconcile
their sexual questions andbrokenness with the goodness of
God.
So yeah, so it's definitely alearning journey, I think, for
(04:34):
the church as a whole, and I'mthankful that I feel like God
kind of gave me a running headstart for the sake of the church
, to equip people on how to havethese conversations in a way
that's really gospel-centered.
Ellen Krause (04:49):
Yes, and I really applaud you for sticking with it
for all this time and pushingthe charge forward.
Let's talk about why you thinkthe average Christian has
difficulty surrendering theirsexuality to God.
Dr. Juli Slattery (05:08):
Well, I think the average Christian really
wonders whether God really caresabout this part of their life.
So maybe they're convinced Godcares about the rules and he's
upset if I'm breaking the rules.
But I don't know if the averageChristian thinks about it
beyond that.
God really cares about mybrokenness If you're married.
(05:31):
God really cares about mysexual intimacy in marriage.
We just don't think about itlike that, partly because
there's been such a pattern ofsilence and of squeamishness.
But then I think there's a realbarrier too, where the average
Christian is dealing with hardquestions that they don't feel
like have been adequatelyanswered, like how could a
(05:54):
loving God have allowed thetrauma experience to happen?
Why didn't he rescue me fromthat?
Or how could a loving, good Godtell me that I can't act out
what I feel is life-giving to mein terms of a sexual
relationship?
Or you know, like Christiansseem very angry and judgmental.
(06:15):
Is God like that too?
So I think there are barriersfor the average Christian to
bring their sexuality to God,their shame of.
I just can't stop sinning.
I can't stop looking atpornography.
I just feel like God's alwaysdisappointed in me.
So this is the lastconversation you want to have if
you're in that situation andGod just doesn't seem
(06:38):
approachable in this area of ourlives.
So I think we'd rather notsurrender it to him.
We don't trust him enough tosurrender something so personal.
Ellen Krause (06:49):
Yes, and you know, that's one of the things that I
pulled out was something thatyou said.
You said in the book you won'tsurrender to someone you don't
trust and you can't trustsomeone you don't know.
And most of us just don't knowJesus well enough to surrender
an aspect of our life that ispersonal, vulnerable and painful
(07:11):
.
That's why it is knowing Jesusthat changes everything, and I
thought that was so beautiful.
Dr. Juli Slattery (07:20):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's really true, and I
think you can grow up in thechurch and even know the Bible
without knowing Jesus in such apersonal way that you're willing
to trust him with such animportant part of your life was
(07:46):
something that I kind of justwanted to touch on as well.
Ellen Krause (07:49):
I do think a lot of people struggle with loving
God with their heart.
They have a lot of headknowledge and I thought you were
quite vulnerable with sharingthat about yourself and how
things change, and can you maybejust encourage someone today
who is feeling that way too?
Dr. Juli Slattery (08:09):
Yeah, I just want you to know that God knows
us and he wants an intimaterelationship with us.
He doesn't just want obedienceand compliance Otherwise he
could have created us without afree will but he wants our whole
(08:30):
life to be surrendered toknowing him, and that does
include not just our headknowledge, but our affection,
just what gives us joy.
And, as I shared in the bookthat you mentioned, like I was
probably my late thirties, earlyforties before I really started
to realize that I was reallybusy serving God and learning
(08:52):
about his word, but didn't knowwhat it was to have that
intimate relationship with himwhere what he said really went
to my heart and not just to myhead.
So if that's you, I would justsay, like, don't settle for just
head knowledge of God, becauseyou're going to hit a wall where
it's not enough just to knowwhat the Bible says.
(09:14):
You have to know that God seesyou, that he cares about you,
that he loves you, that hespeaks life into you, and so you
know that really for me didchange everything, and I've seen
that happen with others as well.
Ellen Krause (09:27):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Well, identity is kind of thestarting point.
When you start describing theprocess of surrendering your
sexuality, you begin withidentity.
Tell us why it's so importantto start there.
Dr. Juli Slattery (09:43):
Tell us why it's so important to start there
.
Yeah, so the way I really triedto structure this book was to
walk people through like whatare the various aspects of what
it looks like to surrender mysexuality to God?
And I think most of us thinkright away oh God wants me to
get rid of sin, like he wants meto stop doing the thing that
I'm doing, whatever it might be.
(10:04):
But actually when we read thescripture, god's first work in
us is not that we get rid of sin.
His first work in us is thatthrough the death of Jesus
Christ and the indwelling of theHoly Spirit, we actually become
new creatures, become newcreations.
It says that in 2 Corinthians5.17.
(10:26):
And most of us who have come toChrist have been baptized.
And that's symbolic of I amdead to my old life and I'm
raised in the life andresurrection of Christ and
newness of life.
So I am a new person and thatmeans that through the Holy
Spirit, god begins to renew mymind, he begins to change my
(10:48):
passions, what I love and what Idon't love.
It means I belong in the bodyof Christ.
It means I'm a son or daughterof the King, and it actually is
when those truths take root inour life that we can start to
see change in behavior.
And I think for a lot ofChristians they try to do it the
other way around, like if I canget my behavior under control,
(11:10):
if I can follow all the rulesthat God has for me, then I will
feel like I'm a new creationand God's just waiting for me to
clean up my act.
But what we see in the NewTestament over and over again is
is it's that the work isalready finished and that we
literally are clothed in therighteousness of Christ, that he
doesn't see us based on our sinor our struggles, and so we
(11:32):
have to learn not to seeourselves based on our sin or
our struggles or anything elsethat the world uses to define us
.
So I really do believe thatmost of our sexual questions and
struggles are actually rootedin an identity rather than our
behavior, and when we can reallyroot out our identity and know
(11:53):
what it is to start walking andwho God says that we are.
Then we start to have the powerand the perspective to address
the behavior patterns that justseem to not want to change.
Ellen Krause (12:04):
Right, and you had said as well that every other
identity pales in comparison tothe most important thing about
me I belong to the Lord and I amhis.
Dr. Juli Slattery (12:19):
Yes, amen.
Ellen Krause (12:19):
Yeah, you need to be grounded in that, like you
said before, we can begin totackle these other things.
You said there's four identitytraps that can impact how our
identity is affected.
Walk us through those and howthey show up in our lives.
Dr. Juli Slattery (12:40):
Yeah, boy, there are so many different
identity traps, but I tried tonarrow it down to four that
particularly can play out inthis conversation of our
sexuality.
So the first one is what I callthe self-discovery identity
trap, and that is very commonfor today's generation, like
(13:01):
particularly the youngergenerations have been raised to
believe that what is most trueabout me is what I feel, what I
experience, what I discoverabout myself, and young men who
believe if I really want to bewhole and authentic, I need to
(13:21):
look inward, I need to decidewho am I attracted to, what is
most true about me in terms ofmy desires, my experiences,
which is why we see so manydifferent identities related to
sexuality LGBTQ plus, even thosewho are just attracted
(13:42):
heterosexually we have a labelfor that.
Or if you just are comfortablein your body, you're cisgender
we have a label for that.
These labels are all very, verynew.
All the things I just mentionedhave only been labels created
within the last 150 years orshorter.
So people never throughouthistory thought of themselves in
(14:04):
terms of who am I sexually andwhat do I feel and who do I
desire.
But we see in today'sgeneration there was a I think
it was a Pew or a Gallupresearch poll that found that
almost 30% of Gen Z identifiesas somewhere in the LGBTQ
spectrum.
So we're talking about over onein four.
(14:24):
And so this has really taken ahold of particularly the younger
generations.
To say if I want to know who Iam, I have to know who I'm
attracted to, what I desire.
And boy, the scripture tells ussomething completely different.
It tells us that, you know, weare going to have thoughts and
desires that are from our flesh.
Even if we have God-givendesires that draws towards human
(14:49):
beings and God created sex,it's all twisted by our flesh
and the enemy and the sinfulworld that we live in.
And so the scripture tells usto look at our desires actually
very skeptically, as that's theold me.
How do I crucify that and liveaccording to Christ's design for
(15:09):
me?
So that's the first one.
The second two are kind ofrelated.
They're the shame andperformance trap and they're
kind of the two sides of thesame coin, which is I define
myself by how well I live up tosome moral standard.
And again, there are people whowould say well, I'm a virgin, I
(15:29):
never stepped outside of mymarriage Like I'm doing this
right.
Therefore I'm better than otherpeople, like I've earned God's
favor because I've kept therules.
And then there are other peopleon the other side who are like
I haven't kept the rules and I'mstill not keeping them, and I
feel forever shameful andcondemned.
(15:50):
I feel like you know, god, thatGod doesn't love me as much as
he must love other Christians.
And really we really see thisplay out in the Gospels and the
story that Jesus told of theprodigal son and the brother who
stayed at home.
And we see that both of thesetwo guys had a barrier in really
understanding the love of theFather.
(16:10):
The father I'm going to go findlife outside and then had to
overcome shame of I'm unworthyto be here.
I'll just be your servant, justaccept me.
And the father throws a lavishparty.
And then the brother who isstuck in the performance trap,
(16:32):
like he can't get over the factthat this brother, who
squandered everything like hasthe favor of the father, like
he's really stuck in legalismand I see that so often related
to sexuality that we justmeasure ourselves by some moral
standard and by rules instead ofknowing who we are in the blood
(16:54):
of Christ.
And Paul said you know to helists a bunch of sins and he
goes that's what some of youwere, but that's not who you are
anymore.
You know, you are now washedand justified and sanctified by
the Lord Jesus Christ and you'refilled with the Holy Spirit,
and so both brothers get levelset by that.
And then, finally, there's arelationship trap, which I think
(17:18):
is also really common.
You know, we live in a couple'sworld and so a lot of people
define their value and worthbased on does somebody want to
be with me?
Am I attractive?
Why am I single?
Why?
Why did my husband betray me?
Like they measure their valueand worth based on what's
(17:38):
happening relationally to them.
Ellen Krause (17:44):
So those are the four most common that I see
people falling into and I'm sureif you're listening to this you
can relate to one of those.
I know I certainly can.
When I think back on my own,just even balancing more than
one of those right, evenbalancing more than one of those
(18:07):
right, I mean I see shame andperformance both in my
background and kind of balancingboth of those.
So I love that you sort of bringthis to light in a way that we
can wrap our minds around andsay, no, we don't need to be
identified as those things, andthat, through the power of the
Holy Spirit, we can take thatnext step towards recognizing
(18:31):
what God has in store for us.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout rethinking sexuality.
A big part of your message ishelping us think differently
about the purpose of sexuality.
Why is that so important?
Dr. Juli Slattery (18:47):
It's really been neglected in our
conversations about biblicalsexuality.
And so what happens is we talkabout the rules, okay.
So we talk about.
God designed sex for a man anda woman within the covenant of
marriage, and most Christiansagain, particularly younger
generations, but older as wellbelieve that the purpose of
(19:11):
sexuality is for me to expresswho I love and to express the
fullness of who I am.
That it's based on sexualchemistry.
You can't really live afulfilled life if you're not
expressing sexually thosefeelings.
So that framework of ourpurpose for sexuality works for
(19:35):
the guy or the girl who, at 22,meets somebody they're really,
really in love with, who happensto be the opposite gender.
So you've got a man and a womanwho fall for each other and
then they have a pretty goodmarriage.
They don't have a lot of trials, they don't have a lot of
(19:56):
problems with loving each other.
Well, that works.
Okay, we can check all theboxes.
God gave me desire.
He met my desire through thisperson.
We have great sex all the time,in good times and bad times.
We're always in love.
But let me just say that'sprobably about 5% of the
population, because the realityof it is that even if you fall
(20:21):
head over heels for somebody.
They might be married tosomebody else or they might not
be interested in you.
Or maybe you get married andthen five years later you're not
attracted to each other anymore.
You have outside temptationsand there are other people who
are attracted to the same sex.
And so my quote-unquote soulmate, the person I have chemistry
(20:43):
with God, says I can't bemarried to or it might be again
a hard marriage, like why wouldGod want me to stay in a
marriage and a sex life?
That feels very unfulfilling.
And so we have to say, okay,did God really say that's a
purpose for sex?
And actually, when we look atscripture, that's not the
purpose for sex.
God did not create sex to be anexpression of romantic desire
(21:08):
or sexual chemistry.
And people are like, wait whatyou know?
Like God actually created sexto be a seal and a symbol of
covenant love, of the choice ofa man and a woman partnering
their lives together and sayingwe will be faithful to one
another and we will work onsexual love and we will work on
(21:33):
friendship, we will work onbeing connected and attached.
And so we really have to changeour paradigm.
And why would God create it?
To be a symbol of covenant love, because the whole idea of
marriage and one flesh, thescripture tells us, is a living
metaphor of the covenantrelationship God has with his
(21:54):
people, and so we're a livingmetaphor in marriage, and sex is
meant to be a part of thatliving metaphor.
So when we take it outside ofmarriage and say, oh, this is
just an expression of what'sinside of me, we not only mess
up relationships, we also aremessing up the metaphor that is
(22:15):
meant to tell us about God'sfaithful love to us.
Ellen Krause (22:21):
That is so fascinating and so helpful, then
what specifically needs toshift in our thinking, then?
Dr. Juli Slattery (22:29):
Yeah, it's a lot, honestly, because, even as
people are hearing me say thatthey're like, I don't quite
understand that.
We have been so indoctrinatedinto thinking that sex is about
expressing what's inside of me,and part of what's happened,
even in the Christian church, iswe've just taken the world's
(22:50):
message and try to Christianizeit, like you can have what you
want, but it has to be in theserules, these rules.
And so we have a lot of work todo to go back to the scripture
and to show and disciple people,including ourselves, in the
thinking that God's primarypurpose is not for us to reveal
what's in us, but for us to knowwhat he's revealing about
(23:12):
himself.
Um, and so I wrote a bookseveral years ago called
Rethinking Sexuality.
That unpacks some of this.
I wrote about this in SurrenderSexuality Like we have to change
our backdrop of what we thinkthe purpose of marriage and sex
is and not just try to have anegotiation with the culture's
(23:32):
view.
And that does take work, ittakes discipleship.
But until we do that,christians are going to feel
like, okay, god might have saidthis, but I don't think he's
good because he's keeping mefrom something good.
But when we can change ourthinking we actually see a
richer goodness in God's designand his plan.
Ellen Krause (23:52):
Absolutely, you know.
Something that comes to my mindis that I think it's so
important for Christians to havethat biblical foundation,
because I think about even justthe word covenant that you said
is not a common word in the newgeneration to even know what
(24:15):
that means, how important it wasto God why he made covenants
and all those things are.
It's just so helpful to havethat background and I love that
you help explain that for peoplewho might not know.
Dr. Juli Slattery (24:33):
Yeah, it's a learning curve.
Honestly, it took me a lot ofyears to really get my mind
around that, so it takes somerepetition.
Ellen Krause (24:43):
Let's talk a little bit about practicality
and with people who arelistening that might be
struggling.
Why is it often ineffective tojust simply try to stop a sexual
sin pattern, and what shouldpeople do instead?
Dr. Juli Slattery (25:00):
Yeah.
So sexual sin patterns are socomplex, they involve our
biology, our neurology.
We know more that we can studythe brain, that because sex kind
of brings forth a lot ofneurochemicals that are very
powerful, it creates neuralpathways in our brain.
(25:22):
So when you have a sexualexperience, your brain can be
experiencing dopamine, which isthe pleasure hormone, something
called PEA, which is like anovelty kind of opiate, natural
opiate kind of thing.
Endorphins, which calm you down.
Adrenaline, when something'snew and exciting and exciting.
(25:50):
If it's a sexual trauma you'veexperienced, it's cortisol and
stress, and your body and brainare processing those memories as
a trauma.
And so all these things impactthe brain because sex is
powerful.
And so what ends up happeningis we have these neural pathways
that are formed sometimes atvery young ages.
People are exposed topornography, for example, around
the ages of 10, 11, 12.
(26:12):
And so their brain experiencessomething powerful and new.
And then you learn to go backto that experience because it
was comforting, it waspleasurable, it felt good, and
so kids and teenagers will goback to pornography.
They go back to hookups ormasturbating or whatever it
(26:32):
might be to say that's how Ifind comfort, that's how I find
excitement when I'm bored,that's how I fall asleep,
because it brings relaxation,and every time you do that it
reinforces that neural pathway.
So let's say, on average you'vegot a young man, young woman
who's been doing this for 12, 15years and they feel a lot of
(26:55):
shame and guilt about it.
They go to church and they hearGod doesn't want you behaving
in those behaviors and they say,okay, I don't want to do this
anymore.
God, I promise I'm not going todo this anymore.
But they've trained their brainto go to those places when
they're stressed, when they'relonely, when they're feeling
discomfort.
They've built identity aroundit.
(27:17):
Where, let's say, there'ssomebody who dates a lot and
hooks up a lot, or sex a lot,people are now expecting that
from them.
They have a sense of self thatthis is what I do.
So they don't know how tochange all that.
And so then they start to feeleven more shame.
Everybody else seems likethey're not sinning like I am.
(27:38):
Why can't I stop?
And the enemy begins to speaklies.
And so this becomes a viciouspattern.
And let me just say it in theministry that I run, this
becomes a vicious pattern.
Let me just say it in theministry that I run, we will see
people in their 30s, 40s, 50s,60s who have never addressed
these patterns.
They just have decades ofexperience and shame and almost
(28:03):
like giving up.
I don't even know what else totry.
Then they feel like the powerof God isn't enough because
they're Christians.
But they can't stop, and sowhat this book that I wrote is
really doing is helping themaddress the layers and get help
for the layers that havereinforced this view of who they
are, reinforce the neurobiology, reinforce their relationships
(28:25):
and actually invite God into allthose layers, instead of just
trying to fix your behavior.
Ellen Krause (28:32):
And that really addresses more of the sexual
brokenness.
Would you say that people havereasons why they're doing what
they're doing?
In addition to that, brainneurology?
Dr. Juli Slattery (28:45):
You know it's so many layers.
I mean we can see it in thebrain, but you know you take,
for example, a married coupleand let's say one of them came
in with a pattern of usingpornography and is trying not to
but doesn't know how to enjoy.
Let's say it's the guy who'susing pornography.
It's not always that way.
But let's say now he can'tenjoy his wife, like he can't
(29:10):
even become aroused because hisbrain is tricked on pornography,
and so he starts saying I can'tlove my wife.
Well, so I'm just going to fallback to pornography.
She doesn't know why he's notengaging sexually.
She starts feeling rejected.
Five years later she discoversa pornography and she's
devastated.
And so now she has all thesethe shame, body image issues.
(29:32):
They have relational problem,and so these issues become very
complex because of the choiceswe make on the road, because of
the things we're not talkingabout, and so it's no longer
just a neurological problem,it's a spiritual problem and a
relational problem and anidentity problem of what's wrong
with me.
(29:54):
And that's why when you hear a30-minute sermon on God's design
for sex, people might agreetheologically, but they can't
get there experientially.
But Jesus wants to enter intoall those layers he wants to
enter into the relationalbrokenness and the shame and the
(30:15):
trauma and rewiring andretraining our brain, all of it.
And so I couldn't have writtenthis book 13 years ago because I
didn't know all of this.
But having observed and walkedwith thousands of people, I see
what happens when we inviteJesus not into just changing our
(30:36):
behavior but remaking us as newcreations, and I've seen people
find freedom and I've seencouples work through the worst
of betrayals.
But it can't just be behaviorfocused.
Ellen Krause (30:51):
Yeah, oh, my goodness Would you say if
someone's listening to this andsaying I'm exactly in that spot
going to your ministry orgetting a Christian marriage
counselor or something, whatwould you suggest for them?
Dr. Juli Slattery (31:07):
counselor or something.
What would you suggest for them?
Yeah, all of the above.
I would suggest you just startwith even between you and the
Lord and just saying God, I feellike I'm a mess and I don't
know what to do.
Would you help?
I've kept this from you, but Iwant to bring it to you.
(31:27):
And boy, jesus loves it when webring our messes.
He doesn't say clean yourselfup first and then come.
He says nope, you know all youwho are weary and heavy laden,
you know, come to me and findrest.
You know Romans, chapter 12,verse 1, paul just says in light
of God's mercy, offeryourselves as a living sacrifice
(31:48):
, because God sees that as holyand acceptable as a form of
worship.
And so that's the first step.
Is just, you know, likeacknowledging our need for God.
And then next steps are there,like at our ministry, we have
online book studies that aregoing through, books like
Surrender, sexuality and otherbooks.
So groups for men, groups forwomen and groups for married
(32:10):
couples, where you can just meetwith some other people and
start processing this stuff thatfeels like it's been stuck for
so long.
And then sometimes we do needto reach out to that Christian
counselor that can help withtrauma, that can help with
communication in marriage, canhelp with just emotional healing
.
So I think it's not just onestep, it's several that we
(32:34):
pursue in concert.
Ellen Krause (32:38):
And just you saying that I think that's kind
of the ending message that needsto be attached to that sermon,
Because if you just take aone-stab approach at it, I
imagine that that's going to beextremely difficult when a
person tries to change theirbehavior without addressing
their sexual brokenness.
Dr. Juli Slattery (32:59):
It is.
It is and you might have somesuccess with willpower and
putting on filters on yourdevices.
That's all good stuff, but wechange when God transforms our
hearts.
You know like we change when wecome to him and we just are
like I got nothing, Like mytricks are broken.
Whatever it takes, I need youto remake me.
(33:21):
That's when we see the mostdramatic transformation,
Absolutely.
Ellen Krause (33:28):
Well, where can our listeners go specifically to
learn more about your work andyour new book Surrendered
Sexuality?
Dr. Juli Slattery (33:38):
Yeah, you can learn about what I do at
AuthenticAnimacycom that's thename of our ministry and then we
have a podcast called Java withJulie.
You can find Surrender toSexuality, christianbookcom,
amazon wherever you might buybooks.
It should be available, butthanks for letting me share
about it.
Ellen Krause (33:57):
Absolutely, and we will make sure we include links
to those in our show notes.
Well before I let you go, Ijust want to ask you our
favorite questions here whatBible is your go-to Bible and
what translation is it?
Dr. Juli Slattery (34:12):
Yeah, I have a big study Bible that when I'm
home I like to study from.
But I also travel a lot, soI've learned to be flexible and
use all kinds of differentBibles but I think my go-to
translation I usually start withthe ESV.
That's my favorite translationto study, but then I also
(34:34):
especially if I'm studying apassage closely I like to pull
up other translations and seethe nuances of them.
Ellen Krause (34:42):
Yes, for sure, absolutely.
Do you have any favorite Biblejournaling supplies that you use
?
Dr. Juli Slattery (34:50):
I do.
I have a friend, her name isCarmen Beasley, and she created,
she creates these books calledSimply Bible and they like, take
you, like they just have thepassage and then they have all
these blocks that you fill out,like what do you observe,
interpret, what are keywords,what are some cross references
(35:10):
from this passage?
You know, like, what are themain points?
How do you apply it?
Write a prayer.
So I use that a lot justbecause I love the way it's laid
out and it makes me slow downand really pay attention to the
scripture in general about whatI'm learning.
So that's probably my favoritejournal tool.
Okay, wonderful.
Ellen Krause (35:32):
Lastly, what is your favorite app or website for
Bible study tools?
Dr. Juli Slattery (35:39):
Logos.
Yeah, I used to use Blue LetterBible and I still like that,
but lately I've gotten intoLogos.
I don't know how people say it,but that's my favorite.
Ellen Krause (35:50):
Yes, oh, it's absolutely incredible, and we
will include links to all ofJulie's favorites in our show
notes as well.
Well, dr Julie, thank you somuch for joining us today.
I'm just so grateful for yourwisdom, your compassion on this
topic of sexuality.
(36:10):
Your work is such a needed giftfor the church today.
Dr. Juli Slattery (36:14):
Well, thank you so much for letting me share
.
Ellen Krause (36:15):
This has been a real joy To those of you who are
listening, I hope you've beenreminded that our sexuality
isn't something we have to hidefrom God.
It's something we're invited tosurrender to him, just like
every other part of our lives.
And for those of you who arewrestling with questions, shame
(36:35):
or brokenness in this area, knowthat Jesus sees you and he is
not afraid of your story.
In fact, he wants to meet youright in the middle of it and
lead you toward healing andwholeness.
And you can start with DrJulie's book called Surrendered
Sexuality.
I highly recommend it.
(36:56):
So thank you for joining us inthe Coffee and Bible Time
podcast.
We will talk to you again soon.
You.
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