For the Creatives: How to Lead, Collaborate & Trust Your Voice

Episode Transcript
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Erica Rawls (00:00):
Hey you! Today's episode is for all the
creatives.
You know, those visionaries,those people that just can make
something out of absolutelynothing, and yet you may not
feel supported.
This episode, we talk aboutcollaboration, we talk about
leadership, we've learned, we'retalking about raising people
up.
I mean, all the things.
If you're looking to learn howto be creative and to find your

(00:22):
people, this is the episode.
Tune in today's roast,self-discipline isn't
punishment.
It's proof.
It's proof that you can trustyourself to make the right

(00:45):
decision so that you can trulyfund the life you want to live.
What do you mean by that?
Well, this is the season,y'all, where you're going to be
itching to buy everyone andeverything something, but your
bank account may say otherwise.
Can I share with you?
Figure out a way to providethem some gifts that cost you
zero dollars or minimum dollarsthat won't break the bank.

(01:06):
Because I promise you, afterthe Christmas season, you're
gonna have buyer's remorse,you're going to be sad, you're
gonna be anxious, and you'rejust gonna feel depressed as far
as being depressed.
And that is not something thatyou want to do because I promise
you, self-discipline is gonnagive you the sense of security
that you need, and you're gonnabuild self-trust.

(01:28):
And that right there is abeautiful thing.
Okay, y'all.
I want to thank you all forhaving this opportunity to talk
to creatives, because you know,I don't know if you know this or
not, but y'all are my spiritanimals, and this is why.
Because I love people that havethe ability to create something
out of nothing.
Like give them a clear slate,whether it's music, whether it's
words, whether it's photos,whatever it is.

(01:49):
I just love that.
So, of course, we have to havethe opportunity just to sit
around and have a conversationwith you all.
So let's get into it.
Before we do that, I think it'sreally important that people
one know who you are, right?
Because, um, and also the workthat you've done.
So that they know that you allhave done the darn thing.
Because no one sits on ourchair and have coffee with E

(02:10):
unless you have done the darnthing in your community, right?
So Albre, you gotta start.
Start.
Let's do this.

Aubrea Thompson (02:16):
Okay.
So, how are you?
I'm Aubrea Thompson.
I am the owner and CEO ofCreative Studios, A Thompson
Visuals, um, a lot of otherthings.
But today we're gonna startstay with the creators next.
Yes, I'm a creative.
Um, I've done so many things.
I have built studios,warehouses, taken slates of

(02:39):
nothing, and built walls, rooms,sets, uh I mean, photos.
It gets to the point where Imean you can have a red dress on
and now you have a green gownon.
I'm a Photoshop extraordinaire.
I do a lot of thingscreatively.
Yeah.
Uh one thing they say, youknow, I don't work jobs, I am a

(03:00):
job.
So I just like to, you know, Ipride myself in, you know, uh
not being conventional, youknow, as a creative or even
being a trailblazer.
It's like, what do I do?
What's my path?
But it's also a situationwhere, you know, just me
creating is enough for me to,you know, live my life
financially, mentally,emotionally, spiritually, and I

(03:23):
appreciate that.

You know, all of that too.
Yeah, pretty.
I'm not that's right.
Yeah, we won't get into all ofthat.
Yes, Mr.
Green.

Robert Green (03:30):
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity.
I'm Robert Green, and I wear aman of many hats, but I have I
dabble in the beauty industry.
I am also a creative with artand visual art.
I'm a costume designer, and Iwear a few other hats, but we
can get into that later.

Yeah, I love that, Miss Julia Mallory.

Julia Mallory (03:51):
So my name is Julia Mallory, and um I am a I
always say poetry is my firstcreative love language.
Um, it's the creative practicethat I've had the longest, but I
am also a I write fiction.
Um, I'm the founder of BlackMermaids, which is a creative
container.
Um I also have a space inHarrisburg called 106, which is

(04:16):
a multi-generational communityuh cultural gathering space.
Um, emerging filmmaker, um,visual artist, collages.
So we can, you know, we'lltouch on a lot of those facets
later, but um yeah, those arethose are some of the lanes I'm
moving in.

Yeah.
So how did you all get into thecreative space?
I mean, because I mean, did itfall in your lap?

I was born here.
You were born here, okay.
I have been drawing andcreating since I was probably
about two years old.
Really?
And some of my earliestmemories are telling the
teachers in school what wasgonna happen, whether it was
during the school plays or justcreating things.
Uh Mother actually gave me theability to draw on our window
each Christmas and I would paintthat.

(04:58):
Uh so I paint scenes on ourwindow as early as three years
old.
So wow.
And this creative stuff.

That is awesome.
And I wonder if anyone that'syoung or have young children, do
they see their children asbeing creatives?
And if so, do you think yourparents actually channeled you
into it?

I think so, because I was born in a time
where we didn't have iPads or,you know, things that we could
really embrace those skillswith.
And so I was provided all ofthe tools, whether it was just
seeing other artists or readingbooks that were centered around
artist and creation.
So I was even sculpting thatearly as well.

I love that.
So you think that there's a lotof parents that may have little
children that may not know whatto do, like they're restless or
may not know how to curb theirappetite for creativeness, like
they like to draw, or they liketo draw on the walls, or they
like to do things.
They're just like, what in theworld is going on?

Like Yes.
Yeah, I I absolutely thinkthose parents should kind of
embrace that and figure out amedium that works best for both
the child and them and maybeeven their household.
But I think the earlier you getinto and dabble with things,
the easier it is to zero in onwhat makes you, what, what
drives you or what inspires you.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So do go ahead.
Uh just allowing yourself to befree.
You know, it's creativity issomething where it's like, I
don't know what to expect out ofthis.
Because there's plenty of timeswhere I've created and I'm
like, well, I want A through E,and I end up getting elemental P
out of the situation.
So, you know, creativity justbrings a different type of
freedom.

(06:28):
I do thank my parents because Imean, I'm an only child, so
they had no choice but to let medo whatever I wanted to do.
But some of that automaticallythat was going to be what it
was.
But I thank them because a lotof times, even when they would
let me try, they would let me dodifferent things, and then
whatever stick, they would letit stick.
And they knew when I wasserious, because like I promise

(06:50):
you, I've had so many jobs evenprior to doing photography full
time.
And it's like, I'd love that myparents see that I'm very
dedicated to this and thejourney.
Even as an adult, I'm 31 yearsold, and still they're like, Oh,
you need me to rip up somebooks.
My dad's like, you need me todrill something into the wall
for you or do something.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah, yeah.

Aubrea Thompson (07:09):
That's just to be with it.
They're with it.
Listen, so I just thankgoodness, you know, it's never a
time where you know, don't everstop with the creativity, even
having friends that support you.
I thank God for Robbie andJulia because there's so many
times where I'm like, How y'allfeel about this?
And they're like, do it, goahead, do it.
So, you know, just having thatparents in a supportive friend

(07:31):
group to vacuum it and let yoube free with your creativity is
100% important.

I would think a lot of times the parents would be
afraid of their child being inthat space because there's you
think of, okay, the struggle, nomoney, do how long we need to
support them.
You know what I mean?
Because it's gonna take becauseI heard you say I had a lot of
jobs before I got into where youare right.
With you, but you weren'thappy.
I mean, you didn't stick intoit because it wasn't what your
calling was.
Right, right.

(07:55):
So having the faith and havingthe support system means a lot.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yeah, and the money of the jobs helped too, because
I was saving up, and then that'show that listen.
That's how that helped you now.
That's how that helped.
Because listen, I was at thepost office for eight long
years, okay?
I didn't know you were therethat long.
Yeah, eight years fromliterally 20 to 28.
Wow, we don't know that youread it.
No, you stuff with that.
Yep, working overnight.

(08:19):
Yep.
And it got to the point whereit was like, okay, when I
started making more money, Istarted traveling more, I
started doing more things.
I was like, all right, y'all,we out.
But I had to save up a lot ofmoney.
I had to sacrifice a lot ofthings.
And I think that's anotherthing too.
Starting off is nothing wrongwith sacrificing.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Like a lot of people see, like, okay, well, they made
it.
I was just with them last weekand they were struggling.
And now, look, they it's likepop, but it's like, nah, I'm
still struggling a little bit,but it's still a little
struggle, but it's a littlebetter now.
So that's why I say, you know,sacrifice is important no matter
what stage you go through.
Sacrifice is important.

(08:58):
But I think like back to theidea around parents or
supporting young people that arecreative, because I think the
dilemma is a couple of things.
One, I feel like our childrenare brought through here like
with their own assignment.
And I think that um, like it'sour job to figure out how to
nurture that.

(09:18):
And so sometimes, you know,creativity is not something that
just stops at, like, oh, I madea creative product, right?
It's a it's a way of thinking,it's a lifestyle in a certain
kind of way.
Absolutely.
So young people who are likelittle kids are always, if they
have the opportunity to becreative, they're coming up with
all types of scenarios anddoing all types of things.
Um, and then we kind of startto curb that and ask them to be

(09:41):
more conventional in theirapproach to things, right?
Then we start getting to like,oh, that's not realistic.
Um, but like nothing isrealistic until it's done.
Right.

And then you'll see unhappy, they're depressed, or
you're wondering why they'reacting out is because you're not
allowing them to be who theytruly are.
Right.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
I think the suppression is so huge.
And I think a lot of times,like we're always asking each
other to suppress ourselves,right?
So that we can be comfortablewith each other, but then like
nobody's really comfortable, noone's really real.
Right.
No one gets to really bethemselves because we're asking
people to put on this mask.
And I think like when we canexercise our creativity early on
and it'd be a through line, Ithink it's an easy, for example,

(10:21):
like even with poetry, right?
I think even the practicaluses, like, so sometimes I
remember doing a workshop at ajob that I had, and um, I was
teaching them this short poeticform.
But I was like, oh, you canalso use this as a way to
crystallize like sentences for agreat application, right?
So trying to get people to takesomething that's big and be
very precise in applying thelanguage.

(10:44):
So even if somebody's like, oh,I'm not a poet, but we can
still learn techniques, right?
I'm not a photographer, but Istill know how to maybe frame a
good picture, right?
I'm not a costume designer, butI know that, you know, this is
a good fabric or not a goodfabric.
So there's gonna be differentranges, but I think when we
suppress that in young people ordon't let them thrive, because

(11:05):
I think, you know, being at thisage that I am, there's so much
that I'm exposed to that I mightmeet some young people in the
world and they're already doingthat at half my age.
And like for even kids in ourcommunity, yes, I will want the
same thing for them, thatthere's also this other, there's
this other creative lanes thatare less conventional.
So like I make experimentalfilms where people might not

(11:27):
want to go watch it like atMidtown Cinema or at AMC, but
there's an audience for them,you know?
But if you only focus on like,oh, only people like if only
this, this, this facet of peoplecan identify with it, then it
doesn't have any value.
So I think just allowing peopleto find ways to express

(11:47):
themselves, the work will findan audience at some point.
But I sometimes worry howquickly we are to dismiss things
just because we don't readilyconnect with it.
Um, and I think as like a aparent or a caregiver or someone
who is working with and foryoung people, we have to be okay

(12:08):
with like, I don't know whatthat means.
But yeah, you know, like theysure like it's not like it's not
something that's harmful tothem, right?
It's like, oh, I don'tunderstand that, but it's like,
oh, that's because maybe you'renot the target audience, right?
Right?
Sure.
Like I think about some artistswho say, like, there's this
jazz musician, Sunra, and youknow, one of his band leaders

(12:31):
was saying, Oh, like this stuffis pretty far out here that you
want us to play.
And so he was like, Yeah,because I'm making music, you
know, for the 21st century.
Right.
Right.
This was back in the he this ishe's saying this isn't like in
the 20th century.
So he's like, Oh, people rightnow might not even understand
it, but I'm making music for thefuture.
Right.
And so I think sometimes wehave to be thinking about that

(12:52):
too, like even being able to doour work.
But when you mentioned likescarcity and money and the
starving artists, it's like, oh,artists wouldn't starve if we
actually supported them.
Yes.
Right in a society that saysthere's value in these things
that we do, um, right, in thesame way that we value other
things or if people shared more.

(13:13):
Like we there wouldn't be thisthe so-called scarcity, right?
We create that by notsupporting people.

Sorry, 100%.
I had to take two seconds tointerrupt this episode.
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Jenny Chavis, for sponsoringthis show.
Chavis Law Firm is an elite lawfirm in central Pennsylvania
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(13:41):
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Now, back to the show.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
She said so many good things.
So many.
What does my target audiencewant to see?
And that's sometimes where Ihad to step out.
And again, this is where I sayall the time, I'm pivot queen.
Because I, you know, one weeky'all gonna see her in her

(14:15):
bodysuit, and the next weekyou're gonna see somebody
worshiping, raising hands on mypage and then maternity.
But it's just, I try not tomake my art so business like.
You know, I run a business, butat the end of the day, I'm a
creative.
So that doesn't run me.
I run what I need to do.
My art is what I share.
So when people say to me, youknow, business-wise, because
again, we do have to be businessowners as well, it's like,

(14:37):
well, what's your demographic?
I'm like, art.
Like people that enjoy art,people that want to make art,
people that want to be amused,people that love, you know, what
who they are and what they'redoing.
And that's who my targetaudience is.
That's who my demographic is.
And it's just a situation whereI think we do suppress our art
sometimes or try to, and I trynot to, but I get victim to it

(14:58):
too sometimes, where it's like,maybe I shouldn't post that
because I don't think they'regonna like that.
I'm trying to run my bands upreal quick.
You know, it's just a situationwhere you have to be um, again,
a creative and continue to becreative.
And even though you're runninga business and you want money,
again, somebody's gonna come toyou.
Like you said, we just need tosupport.

You just that's you know, sometimes even relying
on the fact that your audiencewill find you.
Right.
And your audience could be inPennsylvania, your audience
could be in another country, butand you're creating art from
your heart.
You're actually just allowingyourself to be.
Sometimes you get lost in that.
And when your audience findsyou, sometimes it's that those
three likes that you all willalways come through online, or

(15:37):
it's that one painting that yousell behind the scenes that
really makes a differencebecause your audience will find
you.
You know, I've met a number ofmy friends just by by my
presentation, how how I lookwhen I come into a room and
they'll say, Oh, I love yourjacket, oh, I love this, I love
that.
And that'll be the conversationstarter.
So then opening up the the uhthe conversation to being, you

(15:58):
know, this is what I do, this iswhat drives me, this is what I
like, it it will make a lot ofthat a lot easier than just kind
of worrying about what makesmoney or how I'll make money,
because I think that stuff willcome to you.

I mean, you see a lot of people fail.
You see a lot of people failwhen they try to be something
that they're not, right?
Absolutely.
So just being authentic in thespace that you're in instead of
trying to look for likes.
When you said that that hitlike a big chord, because I see
it even in our industry in realestate, they're trying to keep
it with the latest fads insteadof trying to figure out, okay,
who am I, right?
And who is my target audience?

(16:32):
Yours is art, artists, right?
Right.
You don't care, right?
With age, with demographic,with national, whatever.
So I find that a lot, even inour industry, they want to just
do whatever the latest fad isand they get lost because
they're not um bringing in theright people because they're not
being authentic to who theyreally are.
Right.
Right.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
And I think even when we talk about failure, it's
such an interesting concept tome because I think as long as
you remember your why and you'rebeing true to yourself, you can
never truly fail.
I remember reading, oh my gosh,I forget the person's name.
Um, it was a scholar that I wasfollowing, and he said, I don't
fail, I just recalibrate.
And I think that is like wedon't.

That's a word.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
No, because I think I think uh so you it it will feel
like failure if you're justchasing things that don't feel
sincere to you in the firstplace.
Um and I know it's capitalism,right?
So we're trying to figure outhow do we get it.
You can see it.

I don't care about capitalism.
You can see when someone'sbeing on a not being authentic.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
Correct.
Well, that's the thing.
I'm not, yeah, no, I'm notdisminishing that piece.
I'm saying that that whenpeople are trying to figure out
how to balance, like payingbills, yeah, the expectation of
the market.
Um, because you know, let's behonest, like we're online,
right?
A lot.
And so you're kind of seeingwhat folks are doing, and people
kind of grab it, like online isbeing run by trends, right?

(17:56):
Correct.
So it's like one minuteeverybody's saying the same
phrase, right?
One minute everybody's doingthe same TikTok dance.
So annoying.
So and then the expectationthat and so also the expectation
then that you would like peoplethink like, oh, you're not
doing as much as you can ifyou're not following every
single trend.
Right.
Like, oh, Julie, you should,you know, you should do a TikTok
dance holding one of yourpaintings or something.

(18:18):
No one has ever said that tome, but I'm imagining this is a
type of violet.

You know, no people attracted to different, right?
That's my thing.
Well, always attracted todifferent and authenticity.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
The real things are going to last.
Because I think also people,the work that has a soul is
gonna be what sustains us.
Like it's not gonna be thethings that are here today,
going tomorrow.
Right.
Um and I think it is achallenge.
So when we talk about havingjobs and figuring out how to,
because there are some artists,some people feel like, oh, you

(18:51):
can't be like an artist with ajob, you know.
And I always tell people, I'm afull-time artist with a
full-time job.
Um it also allows me to beprecious about my art.
Right.
Like I don't feel like I'mtrying to create things that are
on trend because I need to turna painting around really
quickly, turn an animationaround really quickly so that I
can pay a bill.
Right.
Um and I understand why peoplealso feel like they have to do

(19:14):
that, but it's like, how do wefind the balance of existing,
just following the trend,following the fad?
Because the other thing is, youknow, other stuff circ cycles
back.
So you like when you're real,your thing is anchored.
Yes, right?
Yes.
You let folks catch up to you.
Right.
Like it's not the other wayaround.

(19:35):
People don't even remember halfof the foolishness that they're
chasing.
So it's like, why would I tryto bend to that?
Right?
Like, so when we say like ouraudience will find us, when
folks get tired of thefoolishness, they're looking for
the real to feed their soul.
And if you got swept up inthat, people will not be able to

(19:56):
find you.
They won't be to tell the realfrom the face.
You won't be able to findyourself because you're gonna be
so everywhere, chaotic, you'renot gonna remember.
And when sometimes I even haveto tell, I had to do again, I
create jobs.
So I do social media strategy.
And I have you create jobs justto be a very creative person.
Let's say, because it's just asituation.

(20:17):
So I agree with you with that.
You know, it's that'll come tome and it's like, yeah, you
don't even, you can't evendance.
Why do you want to do that?
Like there's everyone who wouldsay, Hey, I want to dance.
No, no, I'm gonna be like, nah.
Are you okay?
Okay, I'm gonna be like, well,let's do that and not do that.
Okay, let's not do that.
So I have to, I do have to dothat.

(20:38):
You know, I have to tell peoplea lot.
I get it, but that's not evenwho you want.
Like, you're if you have theclient that you want that's
gonna do the TikTok dance is the21-year-old that's like trying
to buy a house.
You you don't even want thatbecause you're not even gonna
make any money off of that forreal.
Let's think about what we'reproducing right when we do these
trends, what we the type ofpeople that we're gonna try to
get, you know.
So that's why I try to say,like, stay true to yourself.

(21:00):
Like, who do you really want inthis situation?
You know, it's really okay notto do those things.
Yeah, it's not true.
Because to your point, likewhen people are buying a house,
it's a very serious decision.
I need a very serious person.
No, but no, we don't know.
I'm not saying you can't havejoy because I'm not a joke, but
I think I remember followingthis therapist we have really

(21:21):
good information, but it wasreally difficult for me to watch
information because she wasdoing TikTok dances while the
information was going over herhead.
And I just was like, that'svery distracting to me.
I can't resonate with that.
You're talking to me abouttrauma bonding and you're doing
one of them dances.
And I just was like, that it'sa it's an energetic misalignment

(21:43):
here.
And so I think that's okay.
It is like it's really okay foryou not to be, you know, if you
feel compelled to do it, but Ithink for the folks who clearly
do not feel compelled to do itor need to do it, yeah, like
it's like it's okay, y'all.

I love that you said need to do it because
sometimes when you're walking inwho you truly are, that's when
you are the trendsetter.
Right.
And sometimes trendsettersdon't realize that they've even
set a trend until they've movedon to something else and they
see that everyone is doing thedance or wearing the shirt or
you know, doing the poetry ormaking the the content creation
like you've already done.

(22:22):
You're like, I did that fiveyears ago.
Right.
Yeah, yeah.

They're going into a space where I wasn't expecting
to go today.
So boy.
So when you actually so whenyou sit, yeah, right.
No, so when you sit down andyou've started this creative
business, did you go throughlike a strategy session with
yourself?
Did you say, okay, so this iswhat I like to do, and these are
the people that I want toattract, and this is the message

(22:45):
that I want to send?
Or did you just be like, okay,um, this is what I like to do,
and I'm gonna create it and Iwant to put it out there.
Like, what was your process?
Because I know there's a lot ofcreatives in your in your
different spaces as a poet,right?
As a business owner, as a umall the things, like a movie
producer, um, and then you know,making cop um costumes and then

(23:06):
the photo photography and thesocial media.
You have to sit down, wash, andsay have to.
What did that look like to getto where you are today?
Because there's people, so justso you know, the people that
are watching today are gonna bein their 20s and 30s trying to
figure out life, right?
Yeah.
Um, you are the auntie thatthey wish that you wish you had,
and they're in this creativespace and they want to make this

(23:29):
money, right?
And they know creative spacesare gonna be it's challenging,
right?
If you don't do it right.
Right.
So share the formula and howyou got to where you are today.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
I don't think there's a formula, unfortunately.
I think um so for me, probablysitting in this chair wouldn't
have happened without me finallypublishing my first collection
of poetry called Black Mermaids.
And when I did that, it waslike a whole world just opened
up.

(23:59):
Um, and then that led, youknow, it was like that book came
out in November 2016.
Um, literally the day beforeThanksgiving, um, I was trying
to intercept a delivery of thebooks.
Um, I was at my mom's housepainting her dining room,
getting ready for Thanksgiving.
And I was like, okay, I didn'teven tell people the book was
coming out initially because Ijust had this really strange

(24:22):
fear that somehow my publisher,my printer was gonna send me the
books and like half of the textwas gonna be upside down or
something.
It was wild.
Um, it was a huge step.
So I won't downplay like thatearly anxiousness that I felt
about like I wasn't anxiousabout my work, but I was anxious
about the product.
Like I I felt like I was asolid poet, but then once you

(24:45):
put it into a package and sellit as a thing, I was I was
intimidated by that whole thing.
But then once you know, yousell one book, it it just kept,
you know, growing.
And very quickly, you know, Iwas getting all of this positive
feedback from folks.
And a friend suggested that Ishould, because I was like, Oh,

(25:08):
I have to do something else foryoung people because people
thought, because it was likeMermaids was in the title, that
it might be for younger folks.
And I was like, it's nothingreally wild in the book, but
it's not written for children.
And so I was like, Oh, I gottado something else for young
people.
I was gonna do like um sometype of journal or something,
and then my friend's like, Well,I think you should just write a
children's book.
And I was like, Oh my god, whythen I ever think about that?

Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
So it starts out first with just staying true to
the work, like making really theformula is make the main thing
the main thing.
Like be true to your your why.
And so for me, it was oh, I'vebeen a poet for at that point.
I think I was a poet for maybeabout 15 years.
It's time for me to think of myliterary legacy, and so this is

(25:52):
why this book was published.
That was my why.
I was true to that, and then Ialways wanted to have like a
t-shirt brand or something.
So that was November 20, um,2016.
By April 2017, I had one book,one t-shirt, and I had a pop-up
shop.
And people were very interestedin that of that, you know.

(26:13):
So then we fast forward alittle bit, then the the
children's first children's bookcomes out in 2017 as well.
Um, and you know, there's a lotof personal stuff that happened
in between that, but I think itis finding a way to be true to
the art, lean into the ideasthat speak to you.
You're gonna get a lot, likelike you people you get a lot of
advice, yeah, right.

(26:34):
And some of it's like, oh,people mean well, but it's just
not, you know, it's notenergetically aligned.
It's not my why.
Right, it's not my why.
So I think the formula, to bequite honest, is always
remembering your why.

And not being afraid to say no.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
And not being afraid to say no.
Like, I think people are alwaysgiving us ideas and giving us
ideas when they should be givingus money, but that's a whole
nother, that's a whole notherthing.
Not to see the time.
But I say that to say, like, Iknow there's like, yes, is there
a business side, right?

(27:09):
Paperwork, taxes, and all ofthat.
Yes.
And that a lot of times, to bequite honest, sucks the entire
life and fun out of this thingfor a client.
Yes, you know, visionary yes,you know, but so but I but I
think on the on the formulaside, really, like the
remembering your why is whatanchors the whole thing.

(27:32):
Because this stuff gets hard.
Yeah, you know, sometimes I'mjust like, oh, am I producing
things that nobody wants?
Right.
Right?
Like it's not easy.
Second guessing, yeah.
You know, it's easy to, or justbe like, oh, is it time for a
pivot?
Correct.
And I think knowing the whydetermines the pacing of the
pivot.
Because it's like, oh, if ifI'm not, if my assignment is not

(27:52):
done here yet, like I have tostay the course.
Um, yeah.
And but if you energeticallyfeel like, oh no, my assignment
is done here, because I've alsonoticed like among some of us,
sometimes we have a tendency toif people doubted us, then we
feel the need to proveourselves.
But I think if we forget whilewe're doing it, we will overstay

(28:13):
our our welcome in places thatare not for us just because we
want people to think that we canendure.
Correct.
No, I'm not afraid of lookinglike a failure because I know my
why.
So if it didn't work for any meanymore, then it's time for me
to move on.
Whether you think I want it notor not.
Right.
Some of us are too busy, likewe want to look like we're

(28:33):
winning, right?
But we're actually losingbecause it don't even be.
But you're not mailing, likeyou said, where we have your
brief recalibrated.
And it's a situation where it'slike, I'm doing something that
no one has done, you know?
And that's another thing.
How does it, I try to, becauseI kind of have to sit back
sometimes myself too, and I haveto be like, am I feeling at
this, or did I do something thatno one's done?

(28:54):
I tried it, I've done it.
I have to pivot now.
It's my turn to do somethingdifferent or do it differently
or learn from the things thatI'm doing.
Because 100%, I mean, I'm gonnatell you the difference between
us and other people is thatwe're doing it.
You know, we do it.
We tried on ourselves, we tooka chance on ourselves, we taken
the risk, you know, no matterwhat we look like.

(29:16):
Yeah, some days it's like,okay, I dropped the link, 10
people, that's it.
You know, so it's just asituation where you know it's
like yes, but it's also asituation where it's like, I'm
doing it no matter what.
I'm doing it.
And one thing I can say is Ididn't do it.
And how can I, you know, gofrom, okay, I could do this
differently, I could do thisdifferently.

(29:36):
Maybe I do need help.
Maybe I do need a team.
Maybe the reason why it didn'tgo the way I wanted it to go is
because I needed to take sometime to get my mind right and
really strategize and thinkabout how I really wanted to do
things or how I can improve.
But, you know, I agree withthat 100%.

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Speaker 1 (30:13):
That's the hard thing about living in this big old
world.
There's so many moving partsyou will never be able to see.
Right.
Right.
And so like even not gettingthe win.
And I think also being online alot, it warps our sense of like
capacity and volume and successbecause you're like, oh, 10
people responded.
But as somebody who's beendoing in-person events for like

(30:36):
at least the last few years,baby, if if 10 people show up in
person to something at 1006,that's a win.

10 people under your picture look like 10
people.
10 people in a room can fillthat room.
It was a post where it wastheir accent.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
It was like, this is what 10 likes looks like.
And it was like 10 people in aroom.
And then it was like, this iswhat 100 looks like.
100 people, 100 likes looklike.
Yes, that's a lot of people.
If I was, you know what I mean?
When I was vending actively,and if if 10 people came to
visit my table, if 10 peoplebought art, like that's
incredible.

(31:11):
Like that is a phenomenalexperience.

10 more people wearing your shirt.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Baby, if I got to talk to 10 people today that
were curious about the what Iwas doing in the world, like
that in-person connection, youknow the capacity it takes to
hold a conversation with 10people in a row.
Now we just lay in our bed andjust keep replying and we
forget.
Like, no, that is crazy.

How social media has warped our sense of what is
um success is.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
Yes.
It's our interpretation ofeverything.
Of everything.
That's why us being creatives,I say that.
You know, sometimes I have tosit back and be like, wait a
minute, this is what I do.
And if this was the goal, yougot to remember your own goals a
lot of times.
Absolutely.
Remember, because you knowremember, remember, like, hey,
is this goal a goal that I set,or is a goal that I set because

(32:00):
other people thought I needed toset it or I need to look this
way?
And again, that's why it's likeme, LeVarball said it right.
Stay in your lane.
And when you stay in your lane,you don't have to worry about
anything else.
You don't have to think about,you know, what's this person
doing?
How's that person doing it?
Yeah, sometimes we like to getadvice.
Sometimes we like to, you know,have mentors, things like that.
But it's people that aren'teven knowing a day by day of

(32:23):
what we do.
That just like you said, theygive the advice and not the
money.
And it's like, well, do who weneed you to do.
Yeah, I even I remember peoplereaching out and being like, oh,
Julia, you need to, you know,Black Maries, you need to put it
in this, you need to get tothis person, this, this, and
that.
Um, and I'm thinking, but doyou know those people?
Can you connect?
Like, like you cannot thinkthat I did not think about this.

(32:44):
You know, it's like, right,hey, put in a word for put in
put in a good word forsomething.
Like, I'm I'm open to theconnection.
Right.
But if you just somehow gave mea good idea and didn't put
nothing else behind it, you haveto understand as a creative
person, I am drowning in goodideas.
Okay.
Right.
There is no shortage of goodideas.

(33:05):
I always have a good idea.

unknown (33:08):
Right.

No, for real.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Listen, we we eighth generation good idea over here.
Like, we be a little bit morethan that.
Right.

Um you got some funding, you got some help, some
people, you know, somethinglike that.
I like to say that too.
Well, let's talk about thatthen.
So once it becomes, so I see umcreatives, and I'm including
myself in that because I dobelieve that in some aspects of
the jobs that I do, I amcreative, right?
So there's a hobby stage,right?

(33:36):
And then it becomes, okay, thisis getting serious because it's
starting to make money.
So it's a business stage,right?
Right.
So then at what point do weturn that business into
something, a bigger business?
Or are we okay with keeping ita certain size?
Are we saying that we need helpto get it to that size?
Because I heard us all say atsome point that okay, there's um

(33:57):
challenges.
We want people to buy ourstuff, right?
We want people to support ourart and our creativeness.
So at what point do we make itfrom a business that, you know,
pays the bills maybe every othermonth and I still have my
full-time job, to okay, this isa business that's going to
sustain my lifestyle so it canfund the life I truly want to
live?
Have we thought about that?

(34:18):
And I would love to have aconversation around it because I
think it's important to thinkabout it that way.
Because if it's a hobby andwe're okay with it, that's
great, right?
But if we want to be a businessand business owners in our
creative spaces, so we wake uphappy every day, like what does
that look like for us?
And is that possible for us?
Yes, it is possible because wesee other people that do it.

(34:39):
But what are we in that spaceyet?
Or is that something that um, Idon't know, I don't know if I'm
asking the right question ornot, but I'm hoping that the
hobbies and the vision and thecreativeness that we have here,
not just in this room, we aresuch creative people and we have
the ability to change people'slives in such a large way,

(35:03):
right?
And given the right spaces,right, like other people, we
would actually kill it.
So does it mean for us to allcome together in order for us to
make that impact?
Do we need more collaboration?
Do we need more partnerships?
Do we need more opportunities?
What is it that we need inorder to make this happen?
Because y'all are giving megoosebumps just sitting here.

(35:25):
And I'm like, man, I wish Icould just, you know, elevate us
all here in this room, right?
And yet I can't.
But maybe we know people thatcan connect, you know, we're one
connection away from fundingthat that special passion
project that we always dreamedof doing.
Like you said, the blackmermaids.
Like, well, do you know theperson?
I was like, man, I wish I knewOprah, because right now I'll be

(35:46):
calling Oprah saying, hey,O'Neill, I have a Julia Mallory
here, and she has the BlackMermaids, and she is dynamic and
her stories and her poets andher just the whole messaging
behind it needs to be seen withmore people.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
So I think I think that's a great question.
Um so here's where I land onthis.
Please.
Because I think it's um it'svery complex.
So when I first entered intopublishing, I studied the
industry and I was trying tofigure out what do people
consider to be a traditionalsense of success in the

(36:18):
publishing world.
And so in my research, I foundthat most books that are
published, traditionallypublished, do not sell more than
a thousand copies.
So say that again.
Most books that aretraditionally published do not
sell more than a thousandcopies.
Okay.
Over the life cycle of aprinting.
Really?

And so, right, right.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
So then I'm like, well, how are people making
money in this industry, right?
So I'm studying the career pathof writers.
I'm finding that, you know, alot of people are writing books
because it's important to them.
There, a lot of them are hopingfor financial success, but in a
world where books may not sellmore than a thousand copies, and
that's just on thetraditionally published side.
So writers might have otherfull-time jobs, you know, they

(37:04):
might be teachers or academics,and you know, um, people are
also making money on thespeaking circuit, right?
Right.
Um, doing appearances, um,other types of um uh brand
deals, right, that they mighthave.
So that was one facet, right?
So then as I come into like thevisual arts world and

(37:24):
independent cinema, I'm like,oh, how are people making money?
Yo, right?
Yeah.
So in like a lot of spaces, wefind that they're like extremes,
right?
You got people that can likewrite their ticket and kind of
have their say of how they wanttheir career to go.

Through a connection that they have, or
just so you know, the the godsof above are just lending.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
So this is the thing, like it, and it something like
that.
Something like that.
And then this is the thing.
You know, like consumers, themarket is fickle.
Right, right?
You have one minute, everybodybuying yourself.
Yeah, and then also I've alsoseen where artists complain
because it's this idea that, oh,just like musicians, oh, I made

(38:06):
this painting, I made thissong.
Now everybody wants a nearclone of the thing I've already
done.
But I'm an artist, I'm acreative person, I've already
moved on.
Right.
Right?
I'm energetically alignedsomewhere else.
So then do you still keep kindof catering to that audience
because you had bills to pay,right?
Or do you stick to the workthat is your soul?

(38:26):
And this is kind of the dilemmaaround professionalizing our
talent, right?
Exactly.
That you have to figure out howdo I sustain a life doing the
thing that people are willing topay for, right?
And sometimes we are fortunatewhen there's an alignment with
both of them, right?
Right.
And sometimes we fall out offavor with that.
Right.
I also think there's gonna besome things we do that are so

(38:48):
magical, they will never scalein a way that's valued by
capitalism.
Right.
I'm still gonna do that.
Like I'm still gonna do thatwith work.
Right.
And so I think because I'veseen this variation of what
success looks like, are evenagain the optics, social media,
see people that look likethey're winning that life, doing
the things in all the rightrooms, and then we know they

(39:09):
have a financial or materialstruggle.
Yeah.
Right behind the scenes.
Right.
So it has been for me, Ihonestly don't know.

Like, I'm trying to figure that out because I this
sounds like you do know, um,Julia, not to challenge you, but
it does by what you're saying.
You're just like, okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
So I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the
bathwater.
Like, I'm not willing to justlook at it as being an all or
nothing.
I feel like a success because Istill get to make a lot of the
things that I want to make um inmy own way, in my own time, and
in my own rhythm.
Now, when we talk about likewhat do we need, I think having
like a cultural communitygathering space in Harrisburg,

(39:50):
like having a place-based thing,one of the things I do realize
is I feel like our particularcommunity does not have the
creative infrastructure tosustain a lot of the big ideas
that we also want to see here.
Yeah.
And so that is something thattakes, I think, time,
generations to build.
Um and I yes, obviously we havethe conversation sooner rather

(40:14):
than later.
But I know there's a a lot ofreasons why that challenge
persists in our community.
But I think it's trying tofigure out I don't know.
I think I'm in a a season, aseason of renewal, just kind of
like doing what feels important,and maybe the work on the end

(40:35):
will tell me why I'm like whatit connects to.
Right.
Um grateful that I feel like Ihave the the space to to try
things out and see what sticksbecause I I don't even if I did
not sell another painting, Idon't like I'm not a hobbyist
just because I didn't sell thework.

Speaker 4 (40:55):
Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Like I feel like like I'm anartist, right?
Um I am also creating work withthe intention that it will be
seen by people.
Whereas I think like maybe alot of times hobbyists are more
like I'm just doing this justfor myself.
Like just I feel it's good todo this in my body, so I'm doing
this um in a solo type of way.

(41:17):
So I think that's a hard thingtoo, trying to like corral some
of those terms or ways that wetalk about what the work can do,
how it can sustain us.
Um and realistically, you know,people always say, Oh, there's
enough of space out here for allof us.
Yeah, if I create it, right?
Like it's gonna be you know,it's gonna be enough of space

(41:40):
for me out here if I create it,right?
I create it, that doesn't alsomean that there's a market
that's gonna sustain it once itis created.
And I think trying to find thenuance in those conversations I
I'm trying to be very open aboutthis because I also want people
to know like I'm with you, likeI I hear you.

(42:01):
Like it's like you feel thisdesire to do the thing, but then
it's not less valuable justbecause people can't put the
value on it or they can't giveyou the value that you think it
deserves.
I agree with that.
And so being transparent andbeing candid about this is also
trying to let people know hey,baby, do your thing, but also

(42:23):
know this thing may not pay yourbills.
It takes time, right?

And their success needs to be defined by what they
believe success is.
I live me believe success.
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
So with the time was that's a good way to, yeah.
Yeah, with the time was soimportant.
So uh, as y'all know, I had a3,200 square foot warehouse,
right?
So with that, it was like I wasjust in a space where I was
like, you know, I got fivemonths to get this together, get
this up and running, do what Ineed to do.

(42:55):
I was all my intentions are tocreate a space for people to
come where they don't have spaceto create, just like I create
or do their own thing.
And you know, it is hard attimes because it's like, how is
this perceived by people?
You know, it's like I wasgetting questions like, do we
just come and just do this anddo that?

(43:16):
And it's like, yeah, whateveryou want to do, honestly.
Like, whatever you want to do.
And I know even with yourspace, it's like one minute we
play in space, we watch aninsecure, we watch the movie.
It's like whatever you want todo, and it's just like, you
know, this is something where,and I don't want to say the area
we're at doesn't havecreatives, but it's a situation

(43:36):
where it's like um, so monkeysee, monkey do.
And excuse me if that offendsanybody, but it's 100% correct.
So it's a situation where it'slike people don't always feel
comfortable with doing thethings that are outlandish or
they haven't seen before.
That's why it's so amazing whenwe get to a point where it's
like, whoa, she did that.
And it's like, you can do ittoo.

(43:56):
Right.
You can do it too.
I mean, we're creating avenues,we're creating spaces where we
want other people to do it.
And it's like, I don't want youto be afraid to do it, and I
don't want you to have to do ithow I did it.
I don't want you to have to doit how she did it or he did it
or they did it.
I want you to do it how youwant to do it.
And I think in this area as faras Harrisburg, I think that
that's is what I like to pushmore.

(44:18):
You know, people hit me up, andit's like, um, they'll be like,
hey, I want to startphotography.
I want to get into photography.
And I'm like, you know, youdon't have to be in a studio
like me.
You know, now if you wantadvice from me, I can only give
you advice on what I know.
I can give you advice onwildlife, near National
Geographic, because I never didthat before.
You know, like I'm not in thatspace.
You know, yeah, but I you know,and that's with leadership.

(44:41):
You know, leadership is beingable to influence and let people
know, like, hey, this ain't, Idon't know, but I can tell you
what I do know, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because I don't want, I'm nothere to tell you everything that
I don't know or a bunch offacts, snapple facts.
I'm here to tell you what itis, right?
Right.
So yeah.
So it's just a situation whereit's like, I like to push
creatives to say, you know, Ihave this space, I had this

(45:02):
space for you to do what youwant to do.
What you create out of it islike I'll push it too.
Listen, if you want to come inhere and sit in here for six
hours of a day and just talk onlive all day, I get in your live
too.
I'll share your live, I'll dowhatever.
That's your creative space.
So that's why I say again, andwhere we're at, it's like hobby

(45:23):
to professional to whatever.
I say, you never know.
Because I started with myaunt's basement.
I was in a one-bedroomapartment in the living room.
I went to uh a storefront spacein Carlisle and uh and 30
minutes away from Harrisburg,where I didn't even think people
were gonna come.
And I'm they did, and they wascoming and we and we didn't.

(45:45):
And that's why I thank God tojust coming to back to
Harrisburg, to just figuring itout again, to even to a point
where it's like, you know, I'mgetting another space.
And it's like, I like thisfeeling of now what I'm gonna
do.
And now that I have help, andnow that I have people where
I've cultivated a creativecommunity of people that I can

(46:05):
trust, it's like, okay, I couldbe here and I know that my stuff
is still gonna be good here andall of that.
So it's just a situation whereit's like, you know, again, my
point to say is just create inyour way.
Create in your way.
And whether it's a hobby tostart out, to be a profession,
you know, you never know.
Like you're saying, you neverknow what it's gonna breed, what

(46:27):
it's gonna birth.
It's just important to createbecause again, unconventional
things can bring a whole newtrend, a whole new lifestyle.
You don't know what life youcan change.
So that's why I say, like, Iknow it don't look, and my dad,
I say this, shout out to my dad,but I say this because he
wanted me to go to school.
He wanted me to do everythinghow he wanted to do it.

(46:48):
And now he's like, Oh mygoodness, can you show me how to
do that with your phone?
Because he works for theCapitol Police and he does like
PR work.
So he's like, Can you show me?
You got a cap cut?
You got a cap cut, pro?
Let me get on your cap cut,pro.
And I'll be like, all right,man, here you go.
Like, you know, so that's whyI'm saying it's like you never
know because my dad was so like,go to school, be on the books.
And now he's like, Show me howyou did that.

(47:10):
You know, it's like, I need tomake this voiceover.
Tell me what I need to do.
Should I get these mics?
Should I do this?
And it's like, you never knowwhat you could breed, just even
with the hobby orprofessionalism or anything that
you do.
So I just say, create.
Please create with noexpectations and just let it go
from there.
And yes, do be about yourbusiness and strategize.

(47:30):
We do gotta get that money in.

No, this time right to take two seconds to thank
Allstate Insurance forsponsoring this episode.
If you're looking for car,life, or casualty insurance,
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Now, back to the show.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yeah, because by the time I got into deciding if 106
was gonna be a good venture, Imean, like, I definitely by then
didn't know had a businessplan.
You know, we're trying tofigure out how I can generate
revenue to sustain the space.
And even with all of thatplanning, you know, things look
a different way.
You know what I'm saying?
It's like, oh yes.

You had a baseline though as to what you could
potentially expect, but there'salways gonna be something that
you're gonna have to learn howto pivot.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
Oh, it's it's a lot.
I mean, it's it's it's it isit's that every day.
Like I think um every minute, Ipromise.
You're thinking about it.
What I hear you also saying onBray, too, is like folks needing
like creative encouragement.
Correct, right?
Because I think that um evenI'm always like, oh, 106 is
always willing to have folkscome in.
Yeah, do type of, you know, youwant to try out.

(48:35):
I think it's a it's the rightintimate size to launch an idea,
to launch some type of creativevision, or even if people want
to do clothing pop-ups, like Ithink this is a great mix of
space.
Right.
Um and but getting folks totake me up on that, like getting
folks willing to like putthemselves out there just
hasn't.

(48:56):
I didn't, I thought it would bea lot more likely that people
would take me up on the offer,especially as someone that is
like trying out things andthey've never seen it before.
You are very inviting.
I can tell you that.
You're very inviting, you'revery like, hey, I can help you.
Let's do this.
And I was listen, I'm the sameway.
Yeah, so it's like, hey, comein this face, but it's also a
situation where it's like, do Ihave to show you?

(49:17):
Do you want me to do it foryou?
Do you feel that way sometimes?
Well, I think um uh I'll behonest.
No, sometimes now I thinkthere's a range of people that
we encounter.
Uh-huh.
You know, I think there'ssometimes people um have an
energy that it's like, oh, um,if I could just be adjacent to
the people, uh-huh, like even ifI'm not actually doing the

(49:39):
thing, yeah, that's a good,that's good enough for them.
And then there are people Ithink that feel like um there's
still a lot of self-doubt there.
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Like I think they're definitelytrying to unpack the
self-limiting beliefs.
And um, you know, I was doinglike during the pandemic, I was
doing like all these workshops,and I was intrigued, you know, a
lot of us were having theseconversations around um just

(50:03):
really getting back to a senseof ourselves, like before people
started doubting us, beforepeople make us feel like we
wasn't good enough.
And so people were bringing allof that type of baggage to this
work too.
Right.
Um, so before people even meetus or they have these ideas,
there's something in the back oftheir head that is um, and then

(50:23):
also I think the internetdoesn't help.
No, because like the moment Ifeel like we used to also just
like fail in private.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
Like it was like, oh, I don'thave to worry about somebody
going live from an empty room.
Right.
Like back in the day, it wasjust like, oh, they wasn't in
the room.
Yeah, yeah.

(50:43):
Oh, nobody, it's fine.
Life has moved on.
Now every single move you makeis being scrutinized.
And I think for people who trstruggle also with being
perceived, like a lot of thosethings, yeah.
You know, people that want todo one or thing.

I agree with that.
Perception is important.
No, I agree with that.
So here's the thing, wechallenge that.
Okay.
So other people's perception ofwho you are is their
perception.

Speaker 4 (51:07):
Right.

Yeah, you have you and you know who you are, right?
So be confident to failforward.
Because you're definitely goingto do it.
And here's the other thing fearshould not allow you to be
handicapped.
Meaning, okay, if the one thingI don't like to hear is, oh,
well, that'll never work aroundhere.
Okay, great.
I gave you the idea.
I'm gonna show you how it willwork, right?
Yeah.
So there's some people that arefoundation layers, right?

(51:29):
You have other people that comein afterwards.
Right.
So the people that you'reattracted to, you're attracted
to, and you're attracted to areokay, I'm willing to take a
risk, yeah, right, and startsomething that no one has ever
done before in our area.
And I challenge you all.
I think we are in a space wherewe can actually get together
and collaborate and makesomething impactful, right?
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
I think everything you're saying, what you just
said, like will be how I'll howI'll top the when I want.
When people say those things orwhen they express a self-doubt,
you know, holding thatcompassionate space and hearing
them out and trying to figureout why they do feel that way.
But absolutely, my end goal inalways gonna bring the do your
work aside.
I'm always gonna bring thosetalking points.

(52:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm always gonna try to tellyou like that vision was given
to you for a specific reason.
I'm always gonna bring all thatenergy and all that language
out.
So um I I I wholeheartedlyagree with you.
Yeah, no, I agree with you whenI also think I will say this
too, because I am wondering whatdoes it look like to have more,

(52:34):
like what are the specific,like the things that we can do
to contribute to the buildingthe creative infrastructure
here?
Like, what does it look like?
Right.
You know, have a suit for thisthing that you were saying.
You know, like we can supporteach other by the way.

You have to, one, you can't have a limited mindset
meaning.
So one, you have to remove thecrab and the barrel mentality,
right?
Right.
Okay.
So um there's the the strugglethat I've been seeing around,
right?
And this is just me, a wiser,older person.
Maybe you could correct me ifI'm wrong, okay?
Y'all can beat me up.
I won't put it out there, okay?
So one of the things I see as achallenge is when someone comes

(53:12):
with an idea, right, and theythey have a collaborative um
spirit, right?
They truly do.
You can see it.

Right.

And they're willing to do whatever they can to help
the rent people around.
And they have the ability tocast a vision to the point where
you're like, yeah, I'm on it.
I'm ready to do it.
When it comes to the mundanework, the actual execution,
people fall off.
And they're gonna say, it'syour fault because of this, your
fault because of that.
Not understanding that, hey,look, I didn't say it was gonna

(53:41):
be easy, right?
But I say we're gonna getthere, right?
But you're gonna have to put inthe work and not understanding
that success is in the mundane.
Once you go through the dirt,you're able to endure yourself
in the clouds.
But people always wanna be inthe clouds.
They don't want to go throughthat.
Let's go ahead now.
That look, why?
So you're saying, what do weneed to do?
Have to put in that work.
And I'm not saying peoplearen't afraid to put in the

(54:02):
work, right?
But what I'm saying is they mayget tired and forget, okay, why
are we doing this thing?
So the person that came withthe vision, you always have to
speak, hey, remember I said itwas not gonna be easy.
Yeah, but we're gonna get itdone.
Now now we're gonna see howmuch you really want it.
Right.
You don't really want it, okay,cool.
It was great knowing you next.
And we have to be, we have tobe okay.

(54:22):
And if you come to the end byyourself, you have to be good in
that too.
I agree with that.
Because not everyone's supposedto come with you.

I agree.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
Yeah, no, I think that no, what you're saying is
absolutely how it goes down inreal life.
Right.
You know, it goes down in reallife.
And I think we all get that.
Okay.
All of bending a space.
I think, yeah, no, so youspeaking to that is like
speaking to all of us.
I think the the process of likehaving the vision, right?
And there is theinfrastructure.
Again, back to infrastructure,back to capacity.

(54:52):
And yeah, capacity.
And, you know, because eventhat's what having a plan.
That is the thing, right?
That's what back to having aplan helps because we can say,
oh, this is what was required.
This is what you said you weregonna do.
This is what I'm doing.
This is even when we talkabout, you know, forecasting,
like, oh, this is gonna take ussix months, this is gonna take
us six years.

And it may take us um ten.
It might take us.
Because there are things thatwe cannot always predict or can
foreshadow happening, right?
Yeah.
Until it actually happens.
It's those that are able topivot, right?
Right.
And those that understand,okay, yeah, this was not
supposed to go straight line.
If it does, there's somethingwrong, y'all.
Right.
There's something really.
I mean, sometimes we get lucky.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Yeah, sometimes we get blessed and sometimes yeah,
the favor is learn how Bob andWeaving, and I think I
wholeheartedly agree.
But I I I will say, I thinkthat's where like the strategic
planning piece is so critical.
Yeah.
Because it is that thing, likey'all remember again, we're more

(55:55):
in like kind of um, what do youcall it?
Insta gratification.
Ooh, right?
Like we want to build the wholething in one day.
And it's just realistic.
But I do think this is wherenow this is where we talk, you
mentioned leadership.
I think this is the role of umsolid leaders is that you also
give people some sort ofmaterial plan.

(56:16):
Like people understand whereI'm at.
Like, oh, this is a three-monththing, this is a six-month
thing.
So people are not expectingsomething in six months that is
really gonna happen on year six.
And I think if we are notframing what that looks like
we're working with people too,right?
I understand how that's gonnabe a disadvantage.
And that's just true.
You know, that's true.
Like, so I think it's it's a umit's a range of things, right?

(56:39):
And I know some people werescared to even tell people,
like, oh, you know, it's gonnatake six years, because some
people from the jump are justintimidated and not gonna
participate.
But I think, you know, whatdoes it look like?
Oh, maybe I've I've been thepart of things that's like, oh
no, I can do three months ofthis.
Yeah, I can give you six years.
Yeah, right.
But I think people knowing thatcoming in, right, it's a very
different collaboration process.

(57:01):
Because even collaboration.
I was waiting for you.
I'm trying to tell you, youdon't know how many times me and
Julia have sat down and talkedabout real collaboration, okay?
Okay, I was like, So this is soimportant.
No, no, no.
That's why I let every time theword collaboration comes up and
look at you, because I'm like,You're fine.

Yeah, let's talk about having the diversity, the
diversity built into yourcommunity.
People like Julia.

Yeah, okay.
She's gonna break downcollaboration for us and break
it down.
So here's what I always sayabout collaboration.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
It's like, no, look, for right collaboration is if
you if you're coming together tocollaborate, you're more than
likely gonna be building amagical third thing, right?
Correct.
So I'm a separate entity,you're a separate entity.
Right.
And when we collaborate, we'regonna create a third thing.
A lot of times people weresaying, oh, let's collaborate,
but what they really want me todo is just push the thing

(57:59):
through that they already havein motion.
Right.
That's not collaboration.
That could be a form ofpartnership, right?
That could be a favor that I'mdoing for you.
That could also be a servicethat you hired me to do for you.
What I have found sometimes,especially when I was younger, I
would meet a lot of people thatwould be like, oh, we should
collaborate.
But then what they reallywanted was just another unpaid

(58:21):
employee.
Correct.
That's not collaboration,right?
So I think collaboration takestime, right?
We can't just rush into itbecause we really have to be
solid on what remains to stinkabout our individual things.
Where does that fade away, andwhat are we building together?

Well, those are questions that should be
answered when someone comes upto you and says, Okay, let's
collaborate.
So, what does that look like toyou?
That's what I learned from you.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
I say that all for because what does collaboration
look like?
But until you experience that alot of us didn't know that that
is what we supposed to say.
Yeah.
When you were younger, whenyou're more, you know, eager,
yeah, people just wanting towork with you is impressive.
Correct.
So sometimes we just get in thesituation.
Or even I want to say younger,but I mean even just because
sometimes even more experiencedpeople, we can still get got

(59:10):
under this.
No, so we still because we'relike, oh, so that's where you
get got one time.
You're like, okay, it's like abigger, like it's a bigger name
or a bigger project, and you'relike, man, I don't, I see it.
I'm excited to be on this.
I mean, I'm trying to tell you.
I get to get in the room.
Yeah, get in, get in the room.
This person's gonna be in theroom.
You're like, yeah, and thenit's like, wait a minute, I'm
doing about $1,500 worth of workright now.

(59:31):
What is going on for the free?
And I don't want my name onnothing but the check and the
blessings.
You understand what I'm saying?
So that's I'm big on that.
I, you know, I don't have to beon everything.
So instant gratification, I hadto learn that early.
That it's like, you know, youdon't have to put my name on it.
And sometimes it's like, areyou putting my name on it
because what becomes behind it?
Because the community thatcomes behind it, because the

(59:52):
people that comes behind it, areyou doing it?
And if it is the case, just saythat.
That's all we're talking about.
Right.
Even though workers are.
Even doing things pro bono wasperfectly fine.
Right.
Like I have, I'm absolutely I'mhappy to do it for the love
than do it for the exposure,supposedly, that may not be
coming.
So I think it's really okay.
Like if we are doing thosethings, but this is what good

(01:00:14):
collaboration is, is having allthose transparent conversations
up front.
And sometimes I even like Iused to question, like, oh,
maybe the people even sometimesbring you to the table because
collaboration, collaborate is asexy word.
Some people toss it out withouteven really understanding.
You know, collaborate,collaborate.
And it's just like, oh yeah,like collaboration is incredible

(01:00:35):
if done right, but it's not athing that's done overnight.
You know, collaboration means arookie of marriage.

Erica Rawls (01:00:43):
Everyone wins, it does not mean it's equal, right?
Collaboration means everyonewins.
But how do you win isdetermined by how you define it,
right?

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Absolutely.
That's what can be win from.

Can I give your name because I know that you
have a great community behindyou who want this exposure?
Yeah.
If you say yes, then that's thecollaboration.
They win and you win, right?
Right?
Oh, I don't have to do anythingelse.
Okay, great.
Or you may say, yeah, sure, butthat's gonna cost you X amount.
That's how we want tocollaborate.
And there's nothing to rump.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
I had people say, hey, I want to throw a party in
your space, and we're gonna haveabout 500 people in here.
And I'm like, all right, so I'mlooking at it.
I gotta clean up.
I have to think about securityfor you.
I gotta think about certainthings.
You know, sometimes it's justlike, just say you want to rent
the space.
Just say you want to rent thespace.

Can you donate or space?
You better say that, Lorena.
You donate the space, right?

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
And then I'll this is what I want to do for you on
the other side of the exact inthat way.
Am I a sponsor?
Am I doing this?
But again, and this is where Ilike to tell people, and you
know, being creatives, we arelooking at it again, eager to
just be like, man, they justwant to work with me.
I'm happy about that.
But sometimes we have toremember like the work that you

(01:01:55):
put in, it's like it's okay toget paid for your work or do the
work, or you know, sometimesit's more for you.
And then you're like, I don'twant to feel scarred by doing
what I love to do.
Yeah.
And I had to get in that spacefor a long time because I
promise you, the favorite bookwas long.
It was looking like thedictionary.
You feel what I'm saying?
A medical one at that.

(01:02:16):
So I'm just trying to tell you,it just got to the point where
it's like, you know, are theydoing this to other people?
Are they doing this to me?
Or is it just, am I showing toomuch love?
Which is no such thing.
But what I'm saying is it'sjust a situation where it's
like, what are you getting fromthis?
Because you're still doing thework.
And I don't want to be scarredwith what I do business-wise, or
even what I love to do.

(01:02:37):
I don't want to keep beinglike, my worth is my worth.
I know my worth.
Okay, we I don't want to keepdoing that on the internet.
I don't want to keep doing itto people in person.
I don't want to keep saying,because if you don't know it by
now, then it's like, all right,we get it.
You don't have to keep provingit or saying it.
But it's a situation whereagain, you do have to say no.
You do have to say, um, I'm notreally looking for exposure

(01:02:58):
right now.
Um, you know, I'm not in thecapacity to offer that free.
And I, you know, I think it'sum, I just also want people to
just be more fair.
I just want y'all to be justmore generous.
I want y'all to share.
Like, I think it's verydifferent if we're like, I want
y'all to share.
Like, no, seriously, like likesometimes you do things.

(01:03:19):
It's nothing more frustratingthan feeling like, oh wow, like
I was able to do this thing forfree.
I'm grateful.
But then when y'all got abudget, you didn't call me.
And I just think that's unkind.
Like, that's not generous.
You can't build community likethat.
I can't.
I agree.
So when you get, you know, whenyou get it, you gotta split it
with your people.
And I think when we do theopposite of that, that does not

(01:03:40):
build trust.
That doesn't build sincerity.
I agree.
And that is like a killer oftrue collaboration and true
community.
And I think that's what okay.

So when they come up, when they finally get to
that place and they come back tocollaborate, they're not
offering.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
Oh no, I'm sorry.
It's like now it's time to hirepeople and you didn't think of
me.
Because I was getting paid.
Yeah, baby.

Okay, like that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Now it's like now we're getting paid, and it's
like I want y'all to like ifyou're asking somebody to do
something for free.
I also only want you to reachout to people who you will pay
to do it.
Correct.
Like, don't reach out to thepeople that are just gonna do it
for free.
If I'm not good enough to bepaid, then I'm not good enough
to work for free either.

Robert Green (01:04:20):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
Like, so I think if if that's the mindset, then we
should be thinking about that,right?
Be more true in our in ourintentions when we're reading
out to people.
Because that is community, andI think that's important.
Yes, you know, that is 100%community because it gets to the
point where it's like you don'twant to, even as a leader,
because this is the mostimportant thing.
And even as I get into learningabout leadership and being a

(01:04:42):
leader, because I get I haveeverybody's a leader, you know,
influence, absolutely,everybody's a leader.
If you have some type ofinfluence, some type of
measurement.
Yeah, well, not everyone's aleader.
No, but I'm saying this if youhave some type of influence, not
everyone is a good leader, buteveryone is a leader.
Everybody will be put in aposition where they gotta lead
something at some point.
But I'm not saying a goodleader.
Yeah, not everybody's a goodleader, which is why we have to

(01:05:08):
learn about you know the powerwe possess.
Influence is thrown around soeasily now where it's like
you're an influencer, you're aninfluencer.
So there's a difference betweeninfluence and correct.
But understand, right?
If you're a leader, you havesome type of influence over
people, right?
Absolutely.

Right.
So every leader has influence,yeah.
Correct.
Every influence is not aleader.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
Okay, sure.

Let's challenge it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
No, let's do that.
No, listen, I'm saying thisbecause it's a situation.
We like a little debate.
Everybody is you can be aleader, but are you a good
leader?
There's plenty of people thatweren't good leaders.
I mean, I ain't trying to, I'mnot trying to say the concept of
leadership, though it's aninteresting concept to me, but
at a bare minimum, like it's notit's not universal.
Like, you might be a goodleader over here, but you may

(01:05:53):
not be good leading over here.
Right, right.
Like, like that's what I'msaying.
And I think so.
I think to the point of likemaybe what Erica, like I well, I
won't, I don't want to putwords in your mouth, but like a
person might have influence,right?
Which means they're leadingpeople to do a certain thing,
but maybe outside of thatparticular space, maybe, you
know.
Yeah, but so they're not goodleaders, right?
Exactly.
So I totally get what you'resaying.
Thank you.
But what I'm seeing with thisis, right, we have to learn and

(01:06:16):
understand the community wehave, right?
So if Julia is great at poetry,I'm not about to ask Julia to
uh, hey, Julia, can you makethis graphic for me?
You're doing not saying you'renot good at that, I'm doing
graphics.

I know she does everything.
She does everything, y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
Too many hats, but no, but no, I'm just we just
have to understand that, youknow, within our community.
So I just think that that's soimportant.
The point I was trying to makeis it's just important using
people in the ways that we'resupposed to use people.
And I mean not use them as faras like exploit, but utilize.
Yes.
So that's why I'm saying it'slike don't call me again, and

(01:06:56):
I'm gonna harp on this one moretime.
Don't call me when you justbecause you think that I'm gonna
do it for free because of thelove of my heart.
Use me in the way that I'msupposed to be used.
Because if you know I'm doing20 other things for the
community and I have a buildingand I'm doing this and I'm doing
that, that time can go intothat.
Why would you call me?

(01:07:16):
I don't think people don'tunderstand with all due respect
that like the consideration thatyou see, if you're asking me,
you can't think you're the firstperson that has asked me.
Like a lot of people, the samepeople are always getting asked
to do the same, right, you know,the same thing.
So sometimes, unfortunately,just people don't have the
capacity.
It doesn't mean we don't havethe love or the sincerity or the
care.
I care so much that I wouldn'thate to give you a um a careless

(01:07:40):
experience.
Like I don't want to becareless with your time or your
community.
So, you know, if I don't havethe capacity, I'm gonna also
have to, you know, graciouslydecline.
Agree.
But that feels good sometimes,right?

Because people see you for the true creative that
you are.
They're like, oh, I need thisdone, or I need a you know, a
great poetry, or I needwhatever, right?
Or can I use your space?
They're coming to you, right?
So they see you.
So the work that you're doing,everyone has seen it.
And to be able to say nobecause I don't have the
capacity, sometimes that fillsmy cup.
Like, you know what?

(01:08:12):
Um, wow, I'm really blessedover here.
I can't, I can't take onanybody else.
So, you know, unfortunately, Ican't, and yet I know someone
else that can.
Absolutely.
So being a recommendation.
Always make a recommendation sothat they know that okay, not
only is she an expert in herfield, but she knows someone
else when she's not availablethat can help me at the same

(01:08:33):
level.
Because one thing I don't do isattach my name to someone that
does not do the same level workthat I'm gonna do.
I have the confidence thatpeople know that.
So kudos to you and all y'allif you have the capacity to be
like, no, you have to turnpeople away.
No.

And that also affirms the importance of
community, of knowing that youcan call another photographer
and make sure that they're gonnagive it the insane level.

And if I find out you're good, I'm telling
everybody.
I'm doing it.
Everybody, oh, you know what?
Oh, you need the okay, you needto call this person.
You know what?
No, you need to call thisperson.
Like, I want to make sure thatyour pipeline is built up as
much as I possibly can because Iknow you have excellent work.
I do.
And I'm just gonna leteverybody know about it.
I like that.
Everybody knows about it.
Yeah, so my stomach's growling.

(01:09:17):
We past coffee time, y'all.
We are past coffee time.
So, any final thoughts?
This was a really good coffeechat.
Y'all have me sweating on theedge of my seat.
I would have respectfully, Idisagree.
I disagree and called out.
Like, listen, I like thislisten.
This is so good.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
We gotta learn how they are.
No, I I love representativerange of thought.
I think that's important.
Yeah, right.
I think that's like we're notlike we don't have one brain.
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
So I think it's beautiful thatif we can give people a variety
of perspectives, they can, youknow, people can figure out like
what works for them.
Right.
Because one thing I have foundin life is that fortunately, I

(01:09:57):
feel like there isn't a formula.
We all have our own uniquejourneys, we've all gotten our
own unique no's that havererouted us to what we're
supposed to be doing.
And I think that if we canoffer a range of what that might
look like.
Like, oh, you might have avariety of journeys.
People I think feel it feelsmore real.

(01:10:19):
Like, you know, there's athere's a space out here for me,
especially after failure.
Yeah.
Right?
Like I try to tell people likeyou know, I got laid off from
like four jobs in a row.
So there's gonna be, I'm gonnajust look at things a little bit
different when that's your whenthat's your experience.
Right, you know, inrelationship to to what work

(01:10:41):
really means, you know.
But yeah, I think it's it'sgreat that we have a little bit
of back and forth.
Yeah, yeah.

Dirty Dog hauling, thank you so much for your
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Dirty Dog hauling.
Now back to the show.

Speaker 1 (01:11:08):
It's the process, you know what I'm saying?
So it's just a situation whereit's like, you know, again with
failure.
It's a process, but it failingforward is 100% a real, a real
thing.

Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
Taking that, pivoting, understanding I can
change this and also knowingthat you can be renewed at any
time.
You can redeem yourself, youcan do different things, you can
try it again better.
Like the life that we have,thank God for it, you can just
continue to strive, and youdon't have to just sit and just
dwell in the failure, you canjust continue to keep going.

(01:11:42):
So that's again, you know, evenwith social media and things
like that.
I'm big on telling my stories,failures, and and successful
stories, things like that.
But it's just a situation whereyou know, again, authenticity.
And I've always been in spaceswhere I'm like, y'all know me.
I'm gonna be loud in the room.
I'm gonna be loud and right.

I'm be loud and right.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
It's like, but no, but I'm gonna be myself in the
room.
I'm just gonna be that person.
So I just think you know, as ayour journey starting, if you're
a hobbyist or if you're aprofessional, if you're doing
this for 10 years, 20 years, ifyou want to restart something
again, if you want to pick upsomething back up, and now
you're selling something againor doing it again.

(01:12:24):
I just say, like, you can dothat, you know.
Just make sure the why and youknow your why.
Because that was the importantpart with that.
Absolutely.
Knowing your why is gonna keepyou focused, it's gonna keep you
on track, it's gonna keep youfeeling like this is what I'm
doing.
I'm happy to do it.
So that's right.
Mr.

Green, they took up all the airs of the city.
Listen, I know that that's whatyou're gonna do.

But a lot a lot we go.
But I also think that you haveto be confident when going into
these communal spaces becauseyour tribe will find you.
I have to be honest in sayingthat I knew both of these women
before social media, but we gotto know each other a lot better
and a lot in a I'd say a muchmore authentic space through
social media, whether it'ssupporting each other's events

(01:13:07):
or you know, saying, I reallylike this, what you did, or even
through collaboration.
I think that social media canwork for you and it can also
push you into spaces where whenyou're getting those ideas out
of your head and into whatevermedia form that they may need to
come out, is really when you'restanding in your purpose as a
creative.
So if you affirm what your whyis and then you build a

(01:13:27):
community of people who are likeyou or people who can help
change you or edify what youhave going on, I think it's very
important to find your peopleand and to hone in on your why.
Some of my best friends havebeen made on social media, and
these are people that I knew,you know, growing up in the
community.
And I think that even leaninginto the importance of our
online personalities paired withwho we truly are, yeah, has

(01:13:50):
really kind of helped affirmthat creatives can make money,
we can make spaces, we cancreate a lot more than just the
paintings and the art that weput forth.

Yeah, and to the young, ambitious women that are
listening to this, I want toshare or watching, right?
I also want to share.
When I was in my 20s and my30s, I struggled with the why.
Right?
What does that word actuallymean?
Like what does that actuallymean?
So what fills your cup helps meout a lot.
What you know what drains you,and you know what fills your

(01:14:24):
cup.
What gives you energy, right?
What takes energy away fromyou.
Your why is connected to thething that fills you up, whether
you know it or not, right?
So if it's serving people,that's your why.
But what avenue are you gonnause to serve the people, right?
Right?
Is it through creative, right?
Is it through um medical?
Is it through real estate?

(01:14:44):
Is it through there's so manydifferent ways?
So I love that y'all are sayingwhy, but I remember when I was
trying to figure it out, like,what's my why?
What exactly does that mean?
Right?
And then when I really dialedit in, like, what gives me
goosebumps?

Yeah, right?

What gets me excited in the morning?
Yeah.
And that's what's gonna sustainyou in those moments when you
just have nothing else to give,right?
And if you don't, stop, take abreak, but then you know you're
gonna be excited the nextmorning because that's what's
gonna drive you.
So I appreciate all three ofy'all.
Thank you for having us.

(01:15:22):
Thank you for having coffeewith me.
Absolutely.
Hey, thank you so much forwatching this podcast and
supporting our real estatebusiness.
Did you know because of thosetwo things that we were able to
create the Phoenix Foundation, afoundation that helps people

(01:15:43):
that are survivors of domesticviolence find permanent housing.
We provide them down paymentand closing cost assistance.
It's because of the support andthe business and the just the
rallying of the community thatallow us to do this.
Thank you from the bottom of myheart.
And guess what, y'all?
Every time we get a view, alike, or subscribe, that allows

(01:16:08):
us to do more big, impactfulthings like the foundation in
our community.

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