🎙️ New episodes every Thursday | Hosted by Blaine & Reed
☕ A Coffee with Gays First-Ever Author Special
Yes, Blaine was starstruck. And yes, we left that in.
In our first-ever author interview, we welcome novelist Robert Raasch, whose debut novel The Summer Between takes us back to 1978 — before Grindr, before DEI, before the word “community” got co-opted into a rainbow ad. Set in a pre-AIDS Greenwich Village, the book follows Andy Pollock, a closeted high school senior who finds himself (and maybe love?) in the city for one life-altering summer.
What follows in this episode is part literary salon, part red-flag dating game, and part emotionally chaotic gay boy banter. Robert opens up about turning personal memory into fiction, how writing can be therapy (until it isn’t), and the process of shaping a story that feels both personal and universal. We talk about the women who shape gay men, the architecture of Chicago, and the fantasy of living in New York before anyone knew what “viral” meant.
This one is heartfelt, hilarious, and unexpectedly healing. Come for the book, stay for the banter.
✨ WHAT YOU’LL HEAR
- Why Robert set The Summer Between in 1978 NYC
- First love stories that still sting 40 years later
- How writing fiction can be the most honest thing you do
- 🚩 A savage round of Red Flag or Dealbreaker
- What makes a queer story matter in 2025
💬 KEY TAKEAWAYS
- Coming out is always messy, even in fiction
- Community used to mean showing up in person
- Some stories are too big for 280 characters
- Women allies are often the blueprint for gay survival
- A good book doesn’t end when it’s over
🔊 SOUND BITES
- “Tell your stories. Just write.”
- “This book felt like flipping through someone else’s memories.”
- “I ignored the red flag… and then made excuses.”
- “I wanted a book where the gay kid doesn’t die.”
- “Writing’s not always therapy. Sometimes it just rips you open.”
🕛 CHAPTERS
00:00 — Blaine’s Starstruck Intro & Robert’s Arrival
00:40 — Why 1978? Setting the Stage for The Summer Between
02:56 — NYC Before AIDS: Community, Danger, Freedom
04:18 — Building Andy Pollock: Authenticity & First-Love Feels
08:52 — The Women Who Saved Us — Female Influence in Queer Stories
10:35 — From Early Draft to Final Book (Writing Process)
16:15 — Family Dynamics & Coming-Out Shockwaves
19:46 — First-Love Lessons That Still Sting
22:22 — Open-Ended Endings & Sequel Tease
25:14 — Reader DM’s That Made Robert Cry
26:03 — Casting Dreams: Who Plays Andy on Netflix?
27:20 — Would TikTok Have Ru
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to another episode of Coffee with Gaze.
I'm Blaine.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And I'm Reid.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
And we have a very special guest today, robert
Roche, the author of the SummerBetween, want to show it off.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Sure New copy with a little foil that just got added
on last week.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
And you are our very first author.
I'm super excited.
I have to tell you, readingthis book felt kind of flipping
through someone else's memoriesand really the story I wanted to
live.
I mean this was so cool becauseit was like living in 1978,
greenwich Village, a little gayboy coming out story, and a love
(00:46):
story as well.
And you know, I think as a gayman, you kind of like what do
you like?
How do you explain it?
Like you kind of sorry, you'remy first author, so I'll get
there, that's okay, I was tryingto help you, but I wasn't sure
where you were going.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
So starstruck, y'all have him so nervous.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I am a little nervous .
Take a breather, I'll be, good,I'll be good, I'll do this
again.
I'll do this part again.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I'll ask you some questions about the book, since
I haven't read it, since I wasterrible.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
So you could ask me genuinely yeah, I did not.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
What terrible.
Yes, you could ask me genuinely.
Yeah, I did not.
What the hell is this about?
Yeah, I'm so sorry, are you?
Would you be able to brieflygive me a little description
about the book?
I'm sorry, blaine, I did notread the book.
I'm sorry, robert, I did notread the book.
It's totally fine.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
No, not at all synopsis on it.
Sure it's a coming of age story, uh, and it's historical
fiction actually, actually,which is really fun doing all
the research for it.
It's set in 1978 in and aroundManhattan.
The main character, Andy, growsup in northern New Jersey and
his gal pal, his ex-girlfriendthe two of them are exploring
(01:57):
life over a summer and as areference I just started talking
about this a little bit more Iused a book that I loved as a
teenager called Siddhartha byHerman Hesse, which is a
spiritual journey of a youngIndian man a Brahmin Indian, I
think.
It was written in 1924.
And over the span of a periodhe meets all these animals and
(02:19):
people that help him define hisspirituality.
So I love that concept of usinga finite frame of time, like
three months, one summer, andthey go from being high school
seniors to young adults, fromNew Jersey to New York and all
the people that they encounter,good and bad, that influence
them.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, I think that's what was so beautiful about the
book, and it was this beautifulsummer and a lot of bad things
happened.
And then really beautiful goodthings happened.
He was sexually assaulted andthen also fell in love.
Why did you pick 1978, thattime period in particular?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
I wanted the story to be pre-AIDS.
I wanted it to.
There was a lot going on in theworld.
Then it was like the end of theVietnam War.
There was politically a bunchgoing on.
I drew in references the EqualRights Amendment March was that
summer, jimmy Carter was thepresident, there were sort of
mid-ease peace talks and I justdrew all of these different
(03:25):
things into it.
It was also a really excitingtime for gay rights where people
were completely free and one ofthe first periods where they
had gone through.
I think they called it thereference in the book and I
think it was like the gayliberation movement.
So it was like much longer andspecific and that was that had
(03:46):
happened a couple of years andit was just a joyous time.
And I wanted and that's likewhere I pulled stuff in from me.
You know like he's got aconstruction job in the summer
(04:08):
and he does his.
You know like I wanted to showand help educate that gay people
aren't all one type or a littlebit of everything, and I wanted
to portray this as a young guy,you know.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Well, I personally connected with this because you
said that you also dated women.
I also was engaged to a womanwhen I was a young man, and
that's kind of how this opens hecomes out to his ex-girlfriend
and his best friend, right.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Yeah, first chapter he comes out to her and you know
it's like one of the things Ilike that people have come back
with is that it's very authenticand I really really dug deep to
try to get into thesecharacters and I ended up really
liking them.
But I would go to bed and I'dwake up thinking about that kind
of stuff, thinking about like,well, what would they really say
?
Like not trying to always comeup with different things, but
(05:02):
really have it be authentic.
And I feel like that scenewhere he and she are discussing
his sexuality in the park andhe's essentially coming out to
her.
I feel like that sets the tonefor the rest of the novel.
In the first chapter.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, it really did.
I love that scene.
Mine did not end that way.
By the way, she never talked tome again.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Aw, Like she's made up.
That didn't happen to me in mylife.
I would say, like people haveasked me this and I've talked to
some other authors in theirfirst books, I would say about
25% of this is drawn from mylife.
Of this is drawn from my life,uh, and andy is in character
(05:50):
similar to me, but it's 75fiction especially the, the um,
the plot devices, the storyelements of this.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
That was going to be my question.
I was going to say you know how?
How closely does this relate toyour personal experience?
Speaker 3 (06:03):
yeah, I would say it started out being more of that,
because I didn't realize I waswriting a novel when I started.
I was just writing shortstories and I hadn't.
It wasn't like, oh, I'm goingto write a book.
You know, it just kind of allhappened over a couple of years.
So I started out writing moreabout things as I felt as a
young gay man and tried toportray it and put it in this
(06:25):
period.
Then I wanted to switch it upand change it and then so I went
back and I really fictionalizeda lot of it.
But the character's pretty muchin many ways like me, but more
courageous than I was.
I was a little bit shyer and alittle bit less.
You know, courage is a themethroughout the book.
I had courage, but not as muchas he does.
(06:45):
You know he's a little bit.
He kind of pushes the envelopea little bit more, but I was
just.
You know I like he works at apublic electric plant during one
summer.
I did that.
So I pulled stuff like that inbecause I wanted him to be
relatable, like he's just as Isaid earlier, a guy you know
like who happens to be gay.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
I think too well, too well.
I have a question Did you havelike a really strong female
presence too?
Because he had a lot of women,strong women, in his life.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Not in the same way.
I had a stepfather growing up.
He does not have one and he'sraised by his mom, his
grandmother, his aunt and I,like Elena is like another
strong female force and for me,no, I had a stepfather, I had.
My grandmother was a strongpersonality, but I had a
grandfather for a period.
I had a lot of friends, sothat's different, but that's
(07:38):
what made it fun.
For me is like, how do I putthis character into a situation,
instead of just writing what Iknow and really thinking about
that?
And there's the juxtapositionof him growing up with women and
then transitioning, notnecessarily to a world of men,
but with a focus on men, becauseof his romantic interests, not
(08:03):
even his sexuality.
I really wanted him, I wantedit to be about romance, it
wasn't like he needed to havesex with men, he wanted to fall
in love with a man and from myperspective, that's more
realistic for me and I don'tknow, I just kind of I think the
female presence and then himgoing to a world where he loved
men but wasn't really equippedor didn't have all the tools
(08:26):
because he didn't have intimaterelationships with men growing
up.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, that does make sense.
That actually makes me think alot because it's almost like
throughout his interactions withmen, even going to the gay bar
for the first time.
He didn't have a lot ofinteractions with men growing up
, right.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
No, so it was awkward .
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Everything was very awkward.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
I tried to show that arc, that arc where he goes from
being really awkward to kind ofgrowing his sea legs a little
bit.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, that's what was so cute about it, I think, Like
you really saw him grow up sofast through these very kind of
tragic experiences.
But I think we all kind of hadthose too.
I mean, you shared our comingout stories.
How was yours coming out story,I guess?
Speaker 3 (09:18):
What was it like it was?
I did come out early.
Yeah, it was somewhat similarin that I came out early.
My mom was fairly accepting,but she screamed when I told her
because nobody guessed.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Sorry, yeah, what do you consider?
What do you consider early,just out of curiosity 18, 18.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
I was 18.
I was still in high school.
So, like, some of those earlierparts of the book are relatable
to me and shared to me.
But, yeah, but I I was slowerto sort of get out of the gate
than andy is you're like, Irecognize it, but I was like, oh
, but I like women too, like I'mattracted to you.
Know, I had some girlfriends inhigh school and it was just I
(10:01):
don't know and that, yeah, soit's like it was just I don't
know and that, yeah, so it'slike it was a somewhat similar
experience, but the best way todescribe it is Andy is much more
advanced and did more researchand was bolder in seeking out I
want to say, love more than sex,like he was, and that's similar
to me.
It's always been like.
I've always thought of likesomebody, as somebody I want to
(10:21):
date, not somebody I want tohave sex with, if that makes
sense and that makes me a weirdo, I know, in the gay world.
Join the club.
Join the club.
I feel like I'm giving too muchhere, but it's really about the
character and the differencebetween him and I.
Some of the tragic scenes didnot happen to me.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
How do you write about something like that with
so much path that I got?
Speaker 3 (10:48):
That's.
That's what was really fun.
I mean, it really is kind oflike taking myself out of the
day, you know, and I listened to70s music a lot while I was
writing but really, like youknow, after the first draft,
really digging deeper, like whatwould this guy feel like?
Because I got to know thecharacters and I got to know
okay, he's a shade of me, buthe's not and like what would he
really feel?
And that was the most fun.
(11:09):
I mean, I've always been alittle bit of like a psychology
nerd and kind of like I lovefamily sagas and like the just
getting into people's minds andhow they think, and that allowed
me to get in there and then bereally creative with it and
figure out what would this guyfeel.
What would this be like?
Like the you mentioned earlier.
(11:30):
So the assault scene.
That took a long time, that wasprobably the hardest to write
and because I really had to, Idid some research and all of
that.
Like you know, what do victimsfeel like?
But I also wanted it to be well, was it an assault?
You know, like I wanted him tonot have clarity about that
because he was so young and soimmature, like was it his fault,
(11:54):
was it like.
Why did it?
Speaker 1 (11:55):
happen, so like I tried to bring all of these,
different questions.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I don't know.
I think everyone's experienceis different and the
circumstances are different, soI can't speak to that.
Experience is different and thecircumstances are different, so
I can't speak to that.
But but I think I wanted him to, early in, appear as naive as I
thought he might be anduncertain as to why when you go
home with somebody doessomething like this happen yeah,
and I think that is a reallygood question because you really
(12:21):
don't know, at that age I thinkof when I was 18.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Well, I was still in the closet.
I actually envied Andy becausehe got to come out so early in
those younger years.
I mean, I guess I came out atthe end of college, but I would
have loved to be out in highschool, you know, just a little
bit earlier.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Yeah, there's a difference between being out to
your family and not to yourclassmates.
What were you going to?
Speaker 2 (12:49):
say Rich.
I would not agree with that.
I'm very grateful that I didn'tcome out.
I went to Catholic high school,yeah.
I mean it wasn't.
Catholic high school in SouthFlorida was not rough, but I
still don't think an openly gaykid would be too accepted.
I also dropped out of highschool multiple times.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
I want to hear your story now.
I want to hear both of you.
I want to hear your versions.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I'll let Blaine go first.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
You go first.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Your coming out story .
Speaker 1 (13:18):
My coming out story.
I was outed by a woman from mymom's church.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
You were 23,.
You said 22.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
And come to find out, long story short, she was in
love with me.
She tried to get me to date herdaughter when I was 15.
It was really gross because,come to find out, she actually
said to my mom later that shereally wanted to date me.
But yeah, so she was just apsycho, yeah that's a predator
(13:49):
she found it on myspace.
yeah, I put that I was gay so Ikind of wanted to be outed I
guess.
But yeah, you know, like at theend of the day, um, I just was
really upset and then the pastorat my mom's church um said
anybody that raised a gay kid isa bad parent or is you know
(14:10):
going to hell or something.
So it was really hard in thetown they lived in, so it took a
little bit, but uh, yeah, thenit was.
You know, my mom called it thedeath of a dream and you know I
just needed to give her a littletime, little morning time, and
then she was able to like cometo terms with it.
Everything's been kind of fineever since.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
So Okay, now she watches the podcast and listen
to the podcast.
Good, good.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
She joined PFLAG and she was fine.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
She's good.
That's amazing.
I love that.
That.
And she was fine, she's good.
That's amazing.
I love that.
That's really a good story.
I'm a big fan of PFLAG.
They really help, yeah, yeah.
Actually, somebody on adifferent podcast recommended
that I donate books to PFLAG, sothat, thinking that parents
would enjoy the story, becauseI've gotten so many emails not
so many, but several emails fromparents who are straight and
(15:03):
heterosexual and they found thebook illuminating on how to deal
with their kids, whetherthey're straight or gay, but how
to listen to them and not kindof leave them off to figure
things out on their own Iactually agree I plan to deliver
, not deliver to donate to pflags, but I'm just not sure the
logistics of that yet Iactually have a really good
(15:24):
friend who has a gay son, whoI'm totally giving her this book
because she's good.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
I just talked to her yesterday and she's been really
struggling with it.
I I think I also think hismom's reaction is really honest
too.
I think I actually have thisargument with people on social
media all the time when I postclips, because I don't think
that you have to force yourfamily to just be accepting day,
one hour, one minute, one, two.
(15:51):
I think it's okay for them tojust struggle a little bit and I
think that's an honest thing.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Yeah, it's normal because they have dreams and
expectations.
Like your mom said about herdream, it's like they don't, you
know, especially if they, likemy mom, had no clue Right.
So it was like it took anadjustment period of, like you
know, she had this whole planfor me with grandchildren and
which is possible now.
But, yeah, we have to allowthem some grace too.
(16:19):
But the character in my familyalso was Catholic light.
So I remember one of the firstthings my mom said to me in real
life was do you want to talk toa priest?
And I said, well, no, youshielded me from the Catholic
school because she was alreadyaware that priests were
potentially wonderful, but alsothere were some that might, you
(16:42):
know, pray on a cute little boyor something you know.
Yep, hard to say it, but yep,Not all for sure.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
No, not all.
I mean I was never prayed upon,for example.
But again, like going toCatholic school in South Florida
.
My mom was my first gradeteacher.
She taught at the school that Iwent to.
That's the only way that wecould have afforded for me to go
to Catholic school, or mybrother to go to Catholic school
, because my mom taught there.
My dad was a firefighter, mymom was a teacher.
(17:13):
Oh yeah, it's kind ofstereotypical.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
They're both heroes too, of like the best
professions.
Add in nurses and people inmedical stuff, and that's a
trifecta.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
First responders.
For sure yes.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
I mean my dad retired at 45.
So he's been retired, I think,longer than he was actually in
the fire department at thispoint.
But yeah, I came out around 22as well.
That's also when I lost myvirginity the same guy that I
came out for.
I stole my virginity, so Ididn't.
I don't know.
I thought that being gay was.
I thought it was a phase Like Ithought it was a part of
puberty.
If that makes sense To readthis book and grasp his story,
(17:59):
I'm really curious to read itnow.
I'm really curious, good.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
I'll read it to you over the phone.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Perfect.
Oh, my God, that'd be beamazing.
I'll record it or something Itold blaine, I was like does he,
you know, does he um narrate it?
And he kept on telling me read.
No, he, there is no book onaudible whatever.
But I compared it to matthewmcconaughey narrating his book
green lights and I loved it.
And if you ever yeah, yeah.
(18:26):
To listen anything matthewmcconaughey does narrating wise
is amazing yeah, for him tonarrate his book I think it'd be
awesome if he did narrate yourbook.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
But yeah, well, actually we talked about it and,
um, it would be like an actor.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
You know, somebody else really why, why, why, why
is it I?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
don't know.
That's just what the publishersaid is typically the way it
goes, because I guess there's alot of like training with the
pauses and all of that.
You know, mcconaughey is anamazing actor, so you know, if I
did it it would probably belike 20 takes.
It'd be like blaine no kidding.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Actually I can't imagine doing an Audible book
Like that's like a lot of work Ican imagine Seems like it would
be.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I mean I don't know Plus they have like an accent
and all that.
That's what makes it perfect.
You know, I know, I know.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Talk like a New Yorker when.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
I do readings.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
there are a couple of scenes where I like push in the
New York, Like there's this onescene with this girl from a
pizza parlor, callous, and thepizza parlor.
So if I do a book readingsomewhere I kind of like go into
that voice, which is kind offun because she's like very like
slimy New York.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I would love that.
I'll do it.
I'll do it.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
So back to the book, really quick.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Sorry, my apologies.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
I do back to the book really quick.
Sorry, my apologies.
I do have a question.
What do you think andy learnsfrom his first love.
Well, that's a really goodquestion I thought their, I,
their relationship was so cute.
Him and ben, just so you know,he falls in love with this guy
ben after a very not good firstexperience with the guy.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Yeah, I think ben is.
I think it allows him tounderstand what it feels like
that you can actually fall inlove with another man, that it's
not a fantasy or a thought, buthe actually had emotional,
romantic feelings for this guyand they were returned and so I
think that excitement and thatrealization to him was you know
(20:28):
everything, because that justmeant life opens up and it's
kind of like a dream come truefor somebody that's that was
struggling for all of thoseyears to figure it out or to
know like is it a phase and youknow, to go through all of that
stuff.
So I think it was a revelationfor him.
And then, you know, then it gotinto the reality of dating
(20:49):
somebody and like theirdifferences and all of that
stuff.
But I think it was a tremendousleap of growth for him.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
I think that's something like every gay man
Every gay man can really connectwith, like that first time that
you find love and well, Ishould say I hope everyone sorry
, yeah he's just so nervous.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
He's so nervous no, he's not.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
I know I never.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I never have these issues it's true, though, I mean
you're, you're a publishedauthor, it's, it's a big deal um
, but I think that's what everygay man can really connect with.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
I think that's what every gay man can connect with.
I know when I found my firstlove, it was like wow, that
feeling, and you really feelthat in your words when you,
when you wrote that, and I'msure that's what you were going
for, but it was really beautiful, I think yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
And you know like, personally, I still go through
that.
I still have that feeling likeyou meet somebody and it's just
like, oh my God, like my lifecould change.
It doesn't happen that oftenhow many times in a life but
butterflies, and yeah, it'sfantastic.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I love the butterflies in the stomach
feeling.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Reed is Mr Butterflies over here.
He is like literally the worst.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
No.
So Blaine acts like I fall inlove with every guy that I ever
meet, and that's not true at all.
I think we vastly differ in ourdating styles, I guess, and our
body counts for sure but yeah,so sorry.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
So I guess for me I have so many questions because
you also chose to leave it verylike open-ended and like I love
that.
I mean I love that.
I guess that's the point.
You said that you're kind ofit's like a summer arc, right Is
that?
Are you doing a sequel or like?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
you know, yeah, are you going to make it a series.
Sorry not to not to interrupt,but it vaguely resembles the
summer I turned 16.
Obviously completely different.
I like that yeah yeah, turned16.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Obviously completely different.
I like that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But yeah, well, you know, likeI never I didn't write it with
that intention and I didn'twrite the end with, like we're
going to continue with thecharacters, because I just I
never knew it was going to getpublished.
So I just like.
But the end I really struggledwith, like how do I end it?
And then I thought well, well,I'm not going to say anything
(23:28):
about the end, but anything moreabout it.
But I was trying.
So many people have brought upthat they like yeah, you did a
good job, you did a good job,but I was trying to.
I mean, a bunch of people were,uh, commenting that they like
the characters and they want tosee what happened.
Even a couple of the reviewers,I think, in the glnr.
They said something at the endlike we really want to see where
these characters go.
So, since I've written veryrough drafts, not of the novels
(23:59):
but of where it would continueto have, of years, but maybe
just sections pulled from theirlife, like three month, sections
pulled from like 1980 or 1982,and like where they go when that
is I don't know yet Like whathappens to them, that that comes
in, all the development and allbut that has been tossed around
.
But I'm writing something elsenow because I feel like I need,
(24:21):
like a palate cleanser, to dosomething else and then I may
return to the characters I have.
So many ideas for so many books.
It's kind of hard, you know.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, I think this one in particular would be you
could do so many continuationswith them, and I think it's also
great because I think for thereader, you can also create your
own endings as well, which isalways kind of beautiful as well
.
That's how much I connectedwith them.
I know I've kind of like, in myopinion, like continue the
(24:51):
story, which I think it's alwayskind of beautiful as well.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
But I do want to know what your version.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
I know I have so many alternate versions too.
I just I loved it, but I wouldlove to know I would love to
know what your version is,though I'll save that.
I hope it's good.
I hope it's good um me too.
What was your most surprising?
I guess, reaction so far fromreaders that's another good
(25:22):
question, Blaine.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
I think it was from the parents that wrote.
I wasn't writing it necessarilyfor LGBTQ plus audience.
I wanted it to be a little bitmore mainstream.
But I didn't expect parentswriting to say how emotional and
how important it was for themto read it as sort of a
(25:46):
prescription to how to, almostlike, look for signs and make
sure that their children feltcomfortable with whatever they
had to tell them not just comingout or anything but anything
and that was really powerful tome.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
So that was definitely my answer to that
Surprising and lovely If thiswas to be made into a movie,
have you thought about who wouldplay like Andy and Ben and?
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Elena as I was writing the book, so this is
part of I don't know if otherwriters do this I pulled
characters, mostly actors, sothat I could visualize who they
might look like.
But they're all too old now toplay these characters because it
started several years ago and Idon't know enough about some of
(26:33):
the young actors.
I think Josh, the guy that wasin Challengers I think he would
make a really good Andy, buthe's probably getting too old
now.
What's his last name?
He's British and for Elena, Ipictured not somebody to play
her, but like Billie Eilish or ayoung Emma Stone.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
That's kind of who I picture Quirky.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Really, oh really, I like that.
I think Billie Eilish would beperfect, not to cast her, but
like in my mind she was perfect.
Oh good, I'm glad you agree.
Yeah, and Leo would be likeshe's a little stoic.
She'd be more like Kate Winslet.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, that would make sense too, you could do the
older versions, though, of thoseactors, like those actors that
you didn't want.
That could be the grown upversions.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, very interesting.
Yeah, for the third seriesmaybe I like that, I like that.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I've got another random question because I think
elena is such an interestingcharacter.
So if she had tiktok in 1978,what would she post?
What would be like her tiktokthing?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
well, she's a rolling stones fanatic, right, so so
we're talking about her tiktokthen.
So it'd be a lot of stuff aboutmick jagger the stones.
She was kind of like a poprocker girl, um, and she wanted
she kind of like movie stars.
So she would probably, like youknow, have lots of clips of
actresses that she admired andwriters.
(28:01):
You know, she's a littleprecocious, like Andy's a little
precocious, so I think it wouldbe more Bruce Springsteen which
plays a little role in this.
I think she was like a musicgirl and I think that was really
big in that era like rock androll, like the Stones concert in
the book happened in New Yorkon that night, 1978, at the
radio, got really bad reviews.
(28:22):
So I like that was fun, likedigging, like totally geeking
out on like some of the factsand stuff, wow so you researched
that.
Wow, that's amazing but withreally detailed yeah, it's
easier.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
It's easier for sure, and I also like with all the
scarves that she wore as well, Icould really see, yeah, yeah
just like all on scarf talk,like I love it.
I can totally picture this 70sgirl in my head.
She would be a huge tiktokcelebrity.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I just could see it I was like picturing joanne
worley and all that, like thescarves, like, and, uh, martha
graham, like they would wearthem over their forehead, and I
was like, oh, I like the idea ofthis, like high school kid
wearing them because sheinherited them from her
grandmother.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, I absolutely love that.
My mom has like a thousandscarves.
I mean I don't wear them, butyeah, I could totally see that I
don't know where they're goingto go.
Yeah, right, so I guess what'syour advice for young writers
that want to get published?
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Tell your stories, just write.
We need to tell stories to letpeople know who we are and how
we feel.
And or make up stories.
You know, write fiction butthat's how we're heard and
that's how we put it into thecanon.
And there are so many ways topublish now and people are
publishing directly to TikTokand you know, like it's research
(29:48):
how to get your stories outthere, have fun with them, have
them be somewhat authentic ormaybe complete fantasy, I don't
know, but do it.
And the other thing is like justin general for all of us, like
I said earlier, like I didn'thave this fantasy that someday I
was going to write a novel.
You know, like things justhappen sometimes and if I did
write one, I didn't think I youknow like how would I know it
(30:11):
would ever get like wellreceived and all of that.
So it's just two stuff.
If you feel like you want to dosomething, do it, because you
don't know where it's going togo, and follow it through you
know like there are a lot sorry,I didn't mean to interrupt you.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
How long?
Speaker 3 (30:26):
did it take you to?
write the book well, it took along time because they like,
early on I wasn't writing a book, I was writing stories.
And then I compiled all thesestories and then I showed them
to a couple of people and then Ithink I was encouraged I work
really well with encouragement,positive reinforcement, so like
if somebody was like so then Ishowed it to a writer friend, um
(30:47):
, who's well published and known, christopher bram, and he was
like robert, you're a writer andhe's a lot of work.
I think it was like double insize, a lot of editing, um, but
that that affirmation excited meand pushed me to want to go
further.
And it's also like.
Another thing is like seek outother people's opinions for
(31:08):
young writers, young dancers,young actors, whatever sports.
Like ask people, ask olderpeople that know what they, that
know their craft or know theirsport.
Like how do I navigate?
I navigate this, how do I?
Because people want to giveinformation.
I know now I love givinginformation to people and
(31:30):
sharing knowledge and that sortof thing and people genuinely.
It's a beautiful thing about Ithink human nature is that
people do enjoy helping, helpinglike younger people sort of
come up and mentoring and thatsort of thing.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Percent.
Now, what were you doing whenyou first started the book?
Did you ever get to a pointwhere you're like I can't, I
can't dive into this full timebecause I have to pay bills and
whatnot?
Was that ever difficult for you?
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Oh yeah, I mean I started out as an architect and
went to school for architectureand did all of that and then I
had a communication design firmwith a business partner.
For many years we worked with alot of the Silicon Valley
companies when they were comingup in the early 2000s and so I
had a business.
(32:18):
When I started this, this waslike weekend project or, you
know, bored in Florida project.
So I was almost up until twoyears ago working full time
Aside from this, you know,because I'm not a trained writer
or any of that.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
And what happened to the architectural firm or design
firm?
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
It just petered out, it closed.
I moved to Naples and we had anoffice in Chicago, san
Francisco, a small one in Naples, a small one in Chicago, and I
think it just had run its course, like technology was changing
everything.
We changed several times overthe course of the 15 or so years
because of the internet, and Ithink I just kind of burned out.
(33:03):
To be perfectly honest, it waslike flying to these different
offices and I burned out as welland just decided to try
something else Once I got theaffirmation.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
That's awesome.
I'm probably going to pick yourbrain off recording.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
As far as architecture, yeah, that was
great, though.
I mean, I love being atarchitecture school.
I worked on a bunch ofinternational projects, most of
which I never got to see inperson, but I love that, I love
architecture, I love design.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
so, yeah, that's a huge reason why I love Chicago
and I'm not hating on New YorkCity by any means, because I've
got to say I've never been toNew York City.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
You sure you don't want to hate on New York City.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
New York is my—I love New York.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Let's do it for the TikTok.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
I'm not going to hate on New York City.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Please say something that you hate New York City
Please.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I don't.
I'll be very clear I don't hateanything except for maybe I
hate the word hate yeah exactly,but I've never had a urge or
want to go to New York City forany other reason than to, maybe,
you know, see all the touristystuff like the Statue liberty
(34:22):
and you know, chrysler buildingand whatnot.
Chicago I love, though.
I love everything about chicago.
I love the architecture, I lovethe buildings, I love beautiful
the vibe, the exception of thewind.
I'm okay.
I remember going to chicago forthe first time, burning my face
right here because I wasn'tprepared at all but my face was
completely burnt.
But yeah, that's why I leftchicago.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
So that's what I was gonna say.
Yeah, the architecture here isfreaking amazing like new and
old it's just, there's not likea gap, it's just kind of like.
I live in this building thatwas built in 1924, 23, and it's
phenomenal.
You know, a little creaky hereand there, but it's great.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
And then they're beautiful new buildings and you
know, it's, it's, I love it, Ifeel like it still has that big
city vibe, but not on top ofeach other, like I never got the
feel of everyone's on top ofyou.
I didn't feel claustrophobicwhen I was in chicago, if that
makes sense.
So yeah, not hating on one ofthe things, yeah, no, it's
(35:21):
different.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
new york like I describe New York now, which
will always be considered hometo a degree it just has too many
people.
There are just too many peoplethere now.
It's grown so much that youcan't get things done and it's
just not as enjoyable For me.
I was there in my 20s and thatwas perfect.
(35:42):
Because you have that staminato do it right now, I'll go for
a few days here and there andlove it.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, I mean, that's how I feel about Florida.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
You can drive and you can yeah.
Yeah, there are dogs and thereare kids in the neighborhood and
yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah, it's like a good even mix of a big city vibe
good even mix of a big cityvibe.
But you know beautifularchitecture, artwork and spaced
out.
You don't feel like you're ontop of your neighbor even though
you're in the lake, which islike a sea you're not.
Yeah, really, it's the lake'samazing here.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
The lake's amazing, it's like an ocean or you know a
sea, it's just in the beaches,and yeah, yeah, I could go on,
but Well, I have a question Iwon't Kind of a closing question
, so what's next for you?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
So, and how do you decide what's next and what to
write?
And I always kind of wonderthat, as a I'm a more analytical
person, I'm not a creative type.
Well, I guess I am a creativetype, but I have my own way of
being creative.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Like, how do you decide what to write?
Yeah, and then you write thenext one, and so I'm spending a
lot of time now enjoyable time,you know talking about the book
while I'm trying to get thesecond one going and I have a
few chapters out.
But I will say it was like Iwas working on another one about
three brothers, three Southernbrothers, and I was getting into
it, this story about an aspectof her life and a love in her
(37:18):
life, and I took that because Ithought it was fascinating and
decided to run with it.
And now it's like completelydifferent.
But it's just coming up with aconcept which is I'm familiar
with in architecture, right, orlike in painting.
(37:39):
I would come up with a conceptlike this is about Antarctica or
melting icebergs, which I did aseries of paintings on, but I
would come up this is about.
This book is basically aboutvulnerability to me, the
vulnerability of youth.
So that was the context of it.
And the next one is the conceptis it's a woman with a lot of
(38:00):
secrets and how that shapes theway she acts throughout her life
.
She's surrounded by a lot oflgbtq people in her family.
Her son's gay, so there are acouple of little sub stories,
but it's another sort of familysaga and, um, I think it started
from my mom telling me a pieceof her history and being like
(38:21):
ding, ding.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
That's what I want to expand upon, you know.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Yeah, that's amazing.
Yeah, I find it like well, evenwith, and then I think about it
all the time.
That's really great.
Yeah, no, I mean it'sinteresting.
I just find it reallyfascinating how people come up
with stories.
And even for me, when I'mcoming up with like tiktok ideas
, like I'm like, okay, how do Icome up with them?
Speaker 3 (38:45):
and I guess learned experience is probably the
easiest way, right we all havekind of crazy lives yeah and
crazy people around us and ifyou, if you take that and like,
expand upon it and make it evencrazier, then you know it
becomes.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
That's the fun part, you know I mean just to speak on
blaine's behalf for a moment.
I this these are show notes,for example.
Right, and in all honesty, it'swritten like either a script or
a book.
You are writing a story here,in a sense, with these show
notes, yeah, and it's.
Believe me, blaine is extremelycreative about creative about
(39:21):
it, and I almost feel bad that Inever, ever, use the no offense
to you, blaine works his buttoff to do that.
But I think you are a storywriter or a producer in some way
, shape or form some sort ofsomething there.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
And probably by writing, it gets into it.
Yeah, like you, it's how youlearn it, it's how you
understand it, and I would loveto flip the table a little bit
and ask you guys what you'repassionate about, each of you,
what you know like.
For me now I could just sayeasily writing.
Is there something you knowlike?
Is there a writer in you, or abuilder, or I don't know like
(40:01):
what's?
What's your creative outlets?
Speaker 2 (40:03):
In a perfect world I would.
I mean, I'm in real estate andI work for a roofing and general
contracts company.
Right, I'm hoping to somedayfor those two to combine into
one.
And, similar to Chip and JoannaGaines doing Fixer Upper, I
would love to buy houses, flipthem, sell them, donate them to
you know underprivileged.
Buy houses, flip them, sellthem, donate them to you know
(40:23):
underprivileged communities thatyou know need maybe section
eight housing or somethingthat's further, further down the
road.
But I would love yeah, I wouldlove to do that.
That would.
That would be really amazingfor me.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
That's amazing.
Blame that yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
I can Like, yeah, just keep expanding on it For
sure.
I mean, I really want to focuson content creation.
I think media company of my ownwould be great, because I've
done it for so many brands.
That's really kind of like whatI want to do, I think, because
I love that.
Yeah, I've been doing digitalmarketing and ads for so long.
I'm just.
I do enjoy the creativity ofthis.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
You are talented at it.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
I will say I love it.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
It's just a lot of work, but it's about consistency
and just keeping it up andhaving ideas and time.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
We're working on getting Blaine to delegate a
little, a little more delegationand a little less.
You know full control overeverything, type deal that's
difficult for people.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Yeah, that's difficult for a lot of people
but it really helps and likethings like chat, gpt, people
are telling me now like well,you could use it to organize all
of this and all of that andthat might be your assistant.
Like maybe it's not a person,but maybe you can use AI to help
be your virtual assistant.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
I do and I talk to Chat like he's a buddy of mine,
I like I'll turn him on, put myphone up in my truck and have a
whole therapy session on my wayto to record this podcast.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Yeah, I named mine.
Mine is Elena after thecharacter, a character in the
book, and I say hey Elena, she'slike hey Robert, I'm like
that's hysterical.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Yours has a female voice.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Yeah, I don't know why I just yeah.
I don't know why I just yeah, Idon't know why, but it does
have a female voice mine hasthis really male voice and I
didn't, I didn't pick it out,but watch just for example hey
chat, hey there.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
How's it going?
What's on your mind today?
Speaker 1 (42:37):
I turn them off though you have the surfer one,
I have the more dude one.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
That's a sexy voice though, so calming Sorry.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Yeah, he's good, you can go change it.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
I think of a surfer as a dude.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
I think his name is Cove or Cade.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
I'd have to check the settings.
I love that.
You know what.
I never tried to put the voiceon, so I don't know if it's a
male or a female voice.
I just type where I speak.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Yes, and then it comes out as words.
I got to.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
But I.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
So I'll show you.
It's this, it's this I'll sendyou, I'll send you, I'll text
you and send you what to do withlike a screenshot and screen
recording or whatnot, but it'sit's very efficient and easy for
someone that drives all thetime that if I need to access it
, I just say hey, what's up, youknow.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Yeah, I haven't named him yet, but eventually I will.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
What did you name yours?
I'm sorry, Did you want to?
Speaker 3 (43:39):
did you want or no?
Speaker 2 (43:39):
I mean, we can play red flag with you it's, it's
kind of it's about dating.
I'd love it.
I love games like this you doit's about.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
I would love let's go .
It's a challenge.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Dating is a challenge love to know your answers and
it's relevant.
Yeah, so our last episode wasabout the fact that I don't
really, uh, have, I'm not goodwith red flags, with men, okay,
how I picked a really bad lastboyfriend, and this is really
relevant to the story.
(44:04):
So, yeah, I think this would bea great game to play for you.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Yeah, this is a real casual atmosphere here.
Casual but for professional.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
I love it.
I'm having so much fun.
I'm like this is freaking great.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Flag it.
I love it.
I'm having so much fun.
I'm like this is freaking great.
Flag it or fix it, so would you.
Is this a red flag, which meansyou wouldn't go with the guy,
or would you try to fix himReady?
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
He messages you sup at 1.38am.
That would be effective.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Yeah, Wait meaning like he's never messaged you
before.
You guys linked up on what youknow.
Of course, my questionautomatically was does he have
your number already?
Have you guys spoken before?
And he?
Speaker 3 (44:52):
yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
You're on a dating app.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
That wouldn't bother me.
I be like oh good, yeah, here'sanother way.
Yeah, that's good getting waytoo drunk on the first date that
would probably unless we bothgot drunk, and then I wouldn't
care then it would be fun.
But if it just he were, he wasand I wasn't, then that would be
a little bit weird maybe.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
I told Blaine the last episode red flag yes, well,
so it depends on your level ofdrunk, right like I didn't go
into depth about the one of thetwo dates that I went on
recently where the guy wasalready hammered before I even
got to the bar to the restauranthe was already like that's red
flag.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
Yeah, he was already like five, that's red flag.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Yeah, he was already like five old fashions in and
then, you know, still had towait for me to have a drink and
dinner.
But I ended up going with himback to his place it was in the
same neighborhood just to sayNot to hook up, just to see his
place and meet his dog.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
And make sure he got home safely.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Right and on the way on the drive between there's a
gas station in the neighborhood,from the restaurant to his
place.
He had me go to the gas stationthat's right there in his
neighborhood, pick up two gasstation bottles of wine and
bring it back.
He got into one of the bottlesof wine, finished it to himself
(46:19):
at his place, then proceeded totry to get into the second
bottle of wine, right I had nowine at all whatsoever.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
I had nothing to drink, right?
Yeah, geez, could not get thecork out.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
He he pulls out a drill, a power drill, and says
reed, I'm gonna hold the bottleyou drill into the cork to pull
it out.
This is how hammered he was.
I'm like I don't think it'sgonna work out.
I gotta go.
I'm sorry you sober up and havea little bread and I'll talk to
you some other time not a loafof bread yeah with you, I'm with
(46:48):
you on that.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Yeah, I mean the five , the five drinks.
When you show up now, thatshows he's not serious or he has
an issue.
And who wants to deal with that, like you know?
Get it fixed and then I'll goout with you, right?
Yeah, that shows he's notserious or he has an issue.
And who wants to deal with that, like you know, get it fixed
and then I'll go out with you,right?
Speaker 2 (47:00):
yeah, that's what's scary.
I think he has an issue.
I think he's one of thosepeople that has like a toddler
in his, in his car, on the wayto the office every day yeah,
okay.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
So yeah, I agree, you know getting too drunk on the
first date.
My guy fell out of a booth at asteakhouse, so that wasn't good
.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
You're giving me good plot devices here.
I like these stories, the drilland falling out of the booth.
I mean I enjoy having drinks,but you know I don't get
shit-faced drunk.
I don't know if I can say that,but shit-faced drunk.
It's just like getting I lovete tequila, and that can just
make you so happy and horny.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Yeah, I think some people just get so nervous on
dates they just like take it toofar yeah, it was like blaine
when the podcast started.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
That's not a good side now I'm just kidding, but
wait, what kind of tequila?
Because I'm similar in thesense that, if I do, don't give
me cafe Patron, but give meregular Patron, clear Patron,
clear Patron.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
And I'm a fun.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
I'm a I'm a great time Cafe.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
Patron, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
I'm probably still a great time, but I might be naked
in the middle of the street, oryou know a lot to handle.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, so Well, you know a lotto handle.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
You know what I mean.
Yeah, so well, you have to pacetequila, like, if you drink too
much, too fast, then you'relike a fool, and I've.
That's never happened to me.
But yeah, no, I like Casamigos,I like Don Julio, like for the
basics, or Patron, and there'ssome really delicious ones, like
that Casa Azul I think, but Idon't drink that much, but I
(48:39):
like, yeah, I love tequila.
It makes me happy.
I think I read or heard at onepoint that tequila is the only
alcohol that is not a depressant, because it's true, it is an
upper.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
You are correct, one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
Definitely makes me happy.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Yeah, FYI, here in Texas we drink Ranch Waters,
which is just really tequila,Topo, Chico and fresh lime juice
with a little tahini on the rim.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
So you should try it if you like tequila.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
It's delicious.
Yeah, yeah, I love tequila.
Yeah, I haven't been thereforever.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
I have a couple of friends over there actually,
next one, okay.
Speaker 3 (49:25):
Flag it or fix it on his dating profile.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
It says no fems fats mask only uh, should I be pc
here or should I give you?
We're not pc.
Speaker 3 (49:30):
We're not pc, gays I know I I don't like that there's
no fems, or, but I'm attractedto masculine guys.
Well, it wouldn't be a red flagnecessarily, unless they said
anything derogatory or negative.
I mean, it may be a preference,it wouldn't be the part that I
love, but because I am attractedto masculine guys, that would
(49:53):
override the other part.
So I would probably be okaywith it, with a little bit of a
footnote.
You know, like I don't likethis, but yeah, yeah, he's
masculine.
Okay, let's talk I think that's.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
I mean, I think that's fair, I agree.
I mean I think as long asyou're just not like rude to
everybody, I think people areallowed to have preferences.
I think this is like it's soridiculous.
I'll be the controversial oneand say I just think it's
ridiculous when people are likeoh, you're not allowed to have
preferences.
I don't know why.
Gays yeah, every gay has apreference.
Speaker 3 (50:25):
But I don't know that they need to say that in the
profile, but whatever I agree.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
I don't think you have to say it in the profile.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Well, that's like saying why doesn't anybody have
top or bottom in it?
Because nobody wants to?
I don't know.
I feel like people just want toget to the point, like, are you
a top or are you a bottom?
Because if I fall for thisperson, it's exhausting, it's
personality.
And then it comes down to aweek in you find out you're both
bottoms.
Even though these days you haveto be versed, apparently.
(50:54):
I don't know.
Yeah, I think it depends onchemistry.
Speaker 3 (50:57):
That stuff to me is like I might feel different with
one person than I do withanother person.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
You know, I don't like all those labels and stuff.
Yeah, I consider myself veryneutral in that department,
though I have been called onething over the other.
But I don't know.
I feel like in the bedroom Iwant like, if you have that
connection with somebody, let'sroll around and fall off the bed
(51:22):
for crying out loud, I don'tcare Like yeah, it's about fun
and pleasure, Like you know.
Speaker 3 (51:28):
like, yeah, Find the right spots, you know.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (51:33):
What are?
Speaker 1 (51:33):
we talking about hey, so this is my favorite one.
So you're dating somebody,you're in a relationship I
wouldn't know.
You're dating somebody and hesays he wants something real,
but he hasn't deleted grinderyet I want something real, but
I'm not willing to deletegrinder.
Speaker 3 (51:49):
I don't know I would say if you're far enough along
and you're kind of like decidedyou're not sleeping with other
people, delete the freakingGrindr who needs it?
Like what's the point, Unlesssomebody says, oh, I'm just
looking at it.
Depends on the character of theperson and how trustworthy.
But I would be happy to deleteall the apps if I were into
(52:10):
somebody Bar none.
So maybe I would expect that ofsomeone, but I might give a
little bit of grace because Iknow that I am a freak.
Nobody else thinks the way I doabout these things.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
No, actually I've learned that people do.
I've learned that people do.
They're just few and farbetween, but they do yeah.
Speaker 3 (52:31):
I mean yeah, I did delete it.
I say delete it, yeah, I agree,I agree on that one, yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
I just don't see how you could focus or invest time
into someone when you have otherdistractions.
Does that make sense?
It's like trying to.
It's basically window shopping.
Still, you're not really doingit like if you're still on I
agree.
You know why are we dating so?
Speaker 1 (52:53):
yeah yeah, I love to window shop.
Okay, suddenly acts like twodates are a committed
relationship.
Red flag, that's me.
Speaker 3 (53:05):
No, I've been guilty of that.
Oh, because I'm veryenthusiastic, so I would say red
flag because that's somethingI've changed in myself, but I'm
kind of like, but I'm guilty oflike, oh, this is a good thing,
I love this, yeah yeah, I'm nota relationship like let's move
(53:25):
in yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
So have you ever been on the on the other end of it,
though, where you take somebodyelse out on two dates, or are
you of the of the sense whereyou know, know on the first date
whether or not this is going towork out?
Speaker 3 (53:39):
No, there's no way to know that.
I mean, you could have thebutterflies and be all excited
about it for several dates, butyeah, but I would be creeped out
if somebody were doing that tome.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
So red flag?
Ok, that's a good way ofthinking about it.
You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
What's the next one, blaine?
The next one is grainy photoson the profile that look like
they were taken 10 years ago.
Total red flag.
Yeah, I agree.
You know who doesn't agree,reid.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
What do you mean?
Speaker 1 (54:14):
No, because you ask if you should talk to these guys
.
Speaker 2 (54:20):
This is why I have this question so, blaine, I
still post pictures that areprobably grainy.
That I took yesterday with myvery fancy iphone pro.
Whatever, blaine.
Speaker 1 (54:33):
So that's why I'm like what I mean.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
It could just be a mistake, maybe they're, maybe
they're army guys on leave or inafghanistan, and maybe that's
why the photo's grainy.
Speaker 3 (54:40):
I don't know, but I like to okay he's like, but you
can tell like old, but you couldtell old, grainy and you could
tell like, okay, this guyprobably doesn't take good
pictures.
I mean, I think there's adifference when they're trying
to hide it, or or I love it,when the first picture is like
hey.
And then you go three photos inand you're like, oh, you just
(55:03):
aged 20 years and look like acompletely different person.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
Those are the worst.
Speaker 3 (55:09):
I've actually asked a couple of people like which
photo do you look like?
Now it doesn't go well, it'samazing.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
That's all the red flags.
No, I just started back on themagain and I've really only met
people in real life over thelast few years and I have to say
I had to get off because it'stoo overwhelming, it's too much.
Speaker 3 (55:30):
It's too much.
But it's also like when youmeet someone in person.
Like when you meet someone inperson, I have a much better
chance if I go to a party or to,you know, out to a bar with
friends Like last night I wentto a sports bar and I ended up
talking to all these guys theywere all couples, but it was
really fun and I think you pushyourself a little bit more and
(55:55):
you know that there's like thatchemistry there right away.
The apps are just like like ohmy god, it's such a waste of
time.
Not that I don't use them, butyeah, they frustrate me.
I just want to let you be in arelationship and be added to the
whole fishbowl, have you beenapproached by any couples?
Speaker 2 (56:09):
is that?
Is that what you're like?
Speaker 3 (56:11):
you were meeting a lot of people, but right, yeah,
oh, not last, you mean lastnight, no, they were just um,
they just happened to be couples.
Like I didn't know.
I was like oh you single?
No, are you single?
No, I'm with him you know, thatkind of thing and you're like,
okay, yeah, it was more likethat but they were.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
We had a lot of fun talking yeah is that it for the
questions blade?
Speaker 3 (56:31):
is he laughing or is he it's fuzzy?
His photo is fuzzy.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
No, sorry, I was choking.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
Did you?
Have questions for us, robertGosh this is such a good
dialogue.
Speaker 3 (56:43):
We could just like order dinner in and keep talking
.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
I mean these usually, yeah, these usually go Tell
about dinner.
Speaker 3 (56:51):
Yeah, it's so much fun.
You're both like you'reentertaining and I don't know
you just kind of like pair offeach other very well.
Speaker 1 (56:59):
Cool.
So anyway, robert, I just wantto thank you for writing
something that'll really staywith so many of us because you
know, I think we'll all kind ofremember our summers in between.
I mean, I know I did.
I have so many of them and Ireally just appreciated this
book so much.
It was just really incredible.
(57:20):
So thank you for giving it tous.
I find books such a specialthing.
Thank you so much.
I'm going to give a copy, Iknow, to my mom now.
Wonderful.
So thanks so much to ourviewers.
Pick up this summer in between,wherever books are sold and,
robert, you want to kind of telleveryone where you can get it
(57:41):
and follow you and all thatstuff.
Speaker 3 (57:43):
We'll put all the links too in our Absolutely I
will, and I'm just going toshare, not because it's giving
me a big head, but I wasselected as a finalist for the
NIEA Awards two weeks ago, sothe books will now have this
cool little gold seal on it.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
Yeah, that was a shocker.
Speaker 3 (58:02):
Thank you.
It made me really happy and thebook is available pretty much
in all online formats Amazon,apple, barnes, noble, I think,
target, I think in Europe, saxoor Saxon and any independent
bookstore can order it ifthey're not carrying it.
And we're trying to.
It's a grassroots effort tomake bookstores more aware of
(58:23):
the book, because so many comeout every week and they can
order it for you or order it foryour book club and that sort of
thing.
And on my website,robertroschcom, you can just hit
a link and it'll take you toall of the places that you can
buy the book amazing, well,awesome well I'm so glad that
you are our first author and ohmy god, so much, so much.
Speaker 1 (58:45):
You guys are amazing, you're amazing thank you so
much, thank you for dealing withme as my, as my first author
interview.
I I really appreciate it.
You were awesome, so were youboth of you Great.
Speaker 2 (58:59):
Thank you.
Thank you, Robert.
Speaker 1 (59:00):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (59:04):
And thank you all for joining us for Coffee with Gabe
we could rap about somethingelse.
Speaker 1 (59:07):
Please do, please do.
Yes, sorry, we will definitelyhave you back.
I mean, we definitely are goingto continue having more guests
and we've just been reallyenjoying it.
Continue having more guests andwe're just been really enjoying
it.
So yeah, so cheers, beautiful.
Speaker 3 (59:18):
Cheers.
Speaker 1 (59:19):
There you go, thank you.
Speaker 3 (59:21):
Cheers, salute.
Welcome to another episode of Coffee with Gaze.
I'm Blaine.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And I'm Reid.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
And we have a very special guest today, robert
Roche, the author of the SummerBetween, want to show it off.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Sure New copy with a little foil that just got added
on last week.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
And you are our very first author.
I'm super excited.
I have to tell you, readingthis book felt kind of flipping
through someone else's memoriesand really the story I wanted to
live.
I mean this was so cool becauseit was like living in 1978,
greenwich Village, a little gayboy coming out story, and a love
(00:46):
story as well.
And you know, I think as a gayman, you kind of like what do
you like?
How do you explain it?
Like you kind of sorry, you'remy first author, so I'll get
there, that's okay, I was tryingto help you, but I wasn't sure
where you were going.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
So starstruck, y'all have him so nervous.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I am a little nervous .
Take a breather, I'll be, good,I'll be good, I'll do this
again.
I'll do this part again.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I'll ask you some questions about the book, since
I haven't read it, since I wasterrible.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
So you could ask me genuinely yeah, I did not.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
What terrible.
Yes, you could ask me genuinely.
Yeah, I did not.
What the hell is this about?
Yeah, I'm so sorry, are you?
Would you be able to brieflygive me a little description
about the book?
I'm sorry, blaine, I did notread the book.
I'm sorry, robert, I did notread the book.
It's totally fine.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
No, not at all synopsis on it.
Sure it's a coming of age story, uh, and it's historical
fiction actually, actually,which is really fun doing all
the research for it.
It's set in 1978 in and aroundManhattan.
The main character, Andy, growsup in northern New Jersey and
his gal pal, his ex-girlfriendthe two of them are exploring
(01:57):
life over a summer and as areference I just started talking
about this a little bit more Iused a book that I loved as a
teenager called Siddhartha byHerman Hesse, which is a
spiritual journey of a youngIndian man a Brahmin Indian, I
think.
It was written in 1924.
And over the span of a periodhe meets all these animals and
(02:19):
people that help him define hisspirituality.
So I love that concept of usinga finite frame of time, like
three months, one summer, andthey go from being high school
seniors to young adults, fromNew Jersey to New York and all
the people that they encounter,good and bad, that influence
them.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, I think that's what was so beautiful about the
book, and it was this beautifulsummer and a lot of bad things
happened.
And then really beautiful goodthings happened.
He was sexually assaulted andthen also fell in love.
Why did you pick 1978, thattime period in particular?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
I wanted the story to be pre-AIDS.
I wanted it to.
There was a lot going on in theworld.
Then it was like the end of theVietnam War.
There was politically a bunchgoing on.
I drew in references the EqualRights Amendment March was that
summer, jimmy Carter was thepresident, there were sort of
mid-ease peace talks and I justdrew all of these different
(03:25):
things into it.
It was also a really excitingtime for gay rights where people
were completely free and one ofthe first periods where they
had gone through.
I think they called it thereference in the book and I
think it was like the gayliberation movement.
So it was like much longer andspecific and that was that had
(03:46):
happened a couple of years andit was just a joyous time.
And I wanted and that's likewhere I pulled stuff in from me.
You know like he's got aconstruction job in the summer
(04:08):
and he does his.
You know like I wanted to showand help educate that gay people
aren't all one type or a littlebit of everything, and I wanted
to portray this as a young guy,you know.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Well, I personally connected with this because you
said that you also dated women.
I also was engaged to a womanwhen I was a young man, and
that's kind of how this opens hecomes out to his ex-girlfriend
and his best friend, right.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Yeah, first chapter he comes out to her and you know
it's like one of the things Ilike that people have come back
with is that it's very authenticand I really really dug deep to
try to get into thesecharacters and I ended up really
liking them.
But I would go to bed and I'dwake up thinking about that kind
of stuff, thinking about like,well, what would they really say
?
Like not trying to always comeup with different things, but
(05:02):
really have it be authentic.
And I feel like that scenewhere he and she are discussing
his sexuality in the park andhe's essentially coming out to
her.
I feel like that sets the tonefor the rest of the novel.
In the first chapter.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, it really did.
I love that scene.
Mine did not end that way.
By the way, she never talked tome again.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Aw, Like she's made up.
That didn't happen to me in mylife.
I would say, like people haveasked me this and I've talked to
some other authors in theirfirst books, I would say about
25% of this is drawn from mylife.
Of this is drawn from my life,uh, and andy is in character
(05:50):
similar to me, but it's 75fiction especially the, the um,
the plot devices, the storyelements of this.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
That was going to be my question.
I was going to say you know how?
How closely does this relate toyour personal experience?
Speaker 3 (06:03):
yeah, I would say it started out being more of that,
because I didn't realize I waswriting a novel when I started.
I was just writing shortstories and I hadn't.
It wasn't like, oh, I'm goingto write a book.
You know, it just kind of allhappened over a couple of years.
So I started out writing moreabout things as I felt as a
young gay man and tried toportray it and put it in this
(06:25):
period.
Then I wanted to switch it upand change it and then so I went
back and I really fictionalizeda lot of it.
But the character's pretty muchin many ways like me, but more
courageous than I was.
I was a little bit shyer and alittle bit less.
You know, courage is a themethroughout the book.
I had courage, but not as muchas he does.
(06:45):
You know he's a little bit.
He kind of pushes the envelopea little bit more, but I was
just.
You know I like he works at apublic electric plant during one
summer.
I did that.
So I pulled stuff like that inbecause I wanted him to be
relatable, like he's just as Isaid earlier, a guy you know
like who happens to be gay.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
I think too well, too well.
I have a question Did you havelike a really strong female
presence too?
Because he had a lot of women,strong women, in his life.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Not in the same way.
I had a stepfather growing up.
He does not have one and he'sraised by his mom, his
grandmother, his aunt and I,like Elena is like another
strong female force and for me,no, I had a stepfather, I had.
My grandmother was a strongpersonality, but I had a
grandfather for a period.
I had a lot of friends, sothat's different, but that's
(07:38):
what made it fun.
For me is like, how do I putthis character into a situation,
instead of just writing what Iknow and really thinking about
that?
And there's the juxtapositionof him growing up with women and
then transitioning, notnecessarily to a world of men,
but with a focus on men, becauseof his romantic interests, not
(08:03):
even his sexuality.
I really wanted him, I wantedit to be about romance, it
wasn't like he needed to havesex with men, he wanted to fall
in love with a man and from myperspective, that's more
realistic for me and I don'tknow, I just kind of I think the
female presence and then himgoing to a world where he loved
men but wasn't really equippedor didn't have all the tools
(08:26):
because he didn't have intimaterelationships with men growing
up.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, that does make sense.
That actually makes me think alot because it's almost like
throughout his interactions withmen, even going to the gay bar
for the first time.
He didn't have a lot ofinteractions with men growing up
, right.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
No, so it was awkward .
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Everything was very awkward.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
I tried to show that arc, that arc where he goes from
being really awkward to kind ofgrowing his sea legs a little
bit.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, that's what was so cute about it, I think, Like
you really saw him grow up sofast through these very kind of
tragic experiences.
But I think we all kind of hadthose too.
I mean, you shared our comingout stories.
How was yours coming out story,I guess?
Speaker 3 (09:18):
What was it like it was?
I did come out early.
Yeah, it was somewhat similarin that I came out early.
My mom was fairly accepting,but she screamed when I told her
because nobody guessed.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Sorry, yeah, what do you consider?
What do you consider early,just out of curiosity 18, 18.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
I was 18.
I was still in high school.
So, like, some of those earlierparts of the book are relatable
to me and shared to me.
But, yeah, but I I was slowerto sort of get out of the gate
than andy is you're like, Irecognize it, but I was like, oh
, but I like women too, like I'mattracted to you.
Know, I had some girlfriends inhigh school and it was just I
(10:01):
don't know and that, yeah, soit's like it was just I don't
know and that, yeah, so it'slike it was a somewhat similar
experience, but the best way todescribe it is Andy is much more
advanced and did more researchand was bolder in seeking out I
want to say, love more than sex,like he was, and that's similar
to me.
It's always been like.
I've always thought of likesomebody, as somebody I want to
(10:21):
date, not somebody I want tohave sex with, if that makes
sense and that makes me a weirdo, I know, in the gay world.
Join the club.
Join the club.
I feel like I'm giving too muchhere, but it's really about the
character and the differencebetween him and I.
Some of the tragic scenes didnot happen to me.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
How do you write about something like that with
so much path that I got?
Speaker 3 (10:48):
That's.
That's what was really fun.
I mean, it really is kind oflike taking myself out of the
day, you know, and I listened to70s music a lot while I was
writing but really, like youknow, after the first draft,
really digging deeper, like whatwould this guy feel like?
Because I got to know thecharacters and I got to know
okay, he's a shade of me, buthe's not and like what would he
really feel?
And that was the most fun.
(11:09):
I mean, I've always been alittle bit of like a psychology
nerd and kind of like I lovefamily sagas and like the just
getting into people's minds andhow they think, and that allowed
me to get in there and then bereally creative with it and
figure out what would this guyfeel.
What would this be like?
Like the you mentioned earlier.
(11:30):
So the assault scene.
That took a long time, that wasprobably the hardest to write
and because I really had to, Idid some research and all of
that.
Like you know, what do victimsfeel like?
But I also wanted it to be well, was it an assault?
You know, like I wanted him tonot have clarity about that
because he was so young and soimmature, like was it his fault,
(11:54):
was it like.
Why did it?
Speaker 1 (11:55):
happen, so like I tried to bring all of these,
different questions.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I don't know.
I think everyone's experienceis different and the
circumstances are different, soI can't speak to that.
Experience is different and thecircumstances are different, so
I can't speak to that.
But but I think I wanted him to, early in, appear as naive as I
thought he might be anduncertain as to why when you go
home with somebody doessomething like this happen yeah,
and I think that is a reallygood question because you really
(12:21):
don't know, at that age I thinkof when I was 18.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Well, I was still in the closet.
I actually envied Andy becausehe got to come out so early in
those younger years.
I mean, I guess I came out atthe end of college, but I would
have loved to be out in highschool, you know, just a little
bit earlier.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Yeah, there's a difference between being out to
your family and not to yourclassmates.
What were you going to?
Speaker 2 (12:49):
say Rich.
I would not agree with that.
I'm very grateful that I didn'tcome out.
I went to Catholic high school,yeah.
I mean it wasn't.
Catholic high school in SouthFlorida was not rough, but I
still don't think an openly gaykid would be too accepted.
I also dropped out of highschool multiple times.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
I want to hear your story now.
I want to hear both of you.
I want to hear your versions.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I'll let Blaine go first.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
You go first.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Your coming out story .
Speaker 1 (13:18):
My coming out story.
I was outed by a woman from mymom's church.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
You were 23,.
You said 22.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
And come to find out, long story short, she was in
love with me.
She tried to get me to date herdaughter when I was 15.
It was really gross because,come to find out, she actually
said to my mom later that shereally wanted to date me.
But yeah, so she was just apsycho, yeah that's a predator
(13:49):
she found it on myspace.
yeah, I put that I was gay so Ikind of wanted to be outed I
guess.
But yeah, you know, like at theend of the day, um, I just was
really upset and then the pastorat my mom's church um said
anybody that raised a gay kid isa bad parent or is you know
(14:10):
going to hell or something.
So it was really hard in thetown they lived in, so it took a
little bit, but uh, yeah, thenit was.
You know, my mom called it thedeath of a dream and you know I
just needed to give her a littletime, little morning time, and
then she was able to like cometo terms with it.
Everything's been kind of fineever since.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
So Okay, now she watches the podcast and listen
to the podcast.
Good, good.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
She joined PFLAG and she was fine.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
She's good.
That's amazing.
I love that.
That.
And she was fine, she's good.
That's amazing.
I love that.
That's really a good story.
I'm a big fan of PFLAG.
They really help, yeah, yeah.
Actually, somebody on adifferent podcast recommended
that I donate books to PFLAG, sothat, thinking that parents
would enjoy the story, becauseI've gotten so many emails not
so many, but several emails fromparents who are straight and
(15:03):
heterosexual and they found thebook illuminating on how to deal
with their kids, whetherthey're straight or gay, but how
to listen to them and not kindof leave them off to figure
things out on their own Iactually agree I plan to deliver
, not deliver to donate to pflags, but I'm just not sure the
logistics of that yet Iactually have a really good
(15:24):
friend who has a gay son, whoI'm totally giving her this book
because she's good.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
I just talked to her yesterday and she's been really
struggling with it.
I I think I also think hismom's reaction is really honest
too.
I think I actually have thisargument with people on social
media all the time when I postclips, because I don't think
that you have to force yourfamily to just be accepting day,
one hour, one minute, one, two.
(15:51):
I think it's okay for them tojust struggle a little bit and I
think that's an honest thing.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Yeah, it's normal because they have dreams and
expectations.
Like your mom said about herdream, it's like they don't, you
know, especially if they, likemy mom, had no clue Right.
So it was like it took anadjustment period of, like you
know, she had this whole planfor me with grandchildren and
which is possible now.
But, yeah, we have to allowthem some grace too.
(16:19):
But the character in my familyalso was Catholic light.
So I remember one of the firstthings my mom said to me in real
life was do you want to talk toa priest?
And I said, well, no, youshielded me from the Catholic
school because she was alreadyaware that priests were
potentially wonderful, but alsothere were some that might, you
(16:42):
know, pray on a cute little boyor something you know.
Yep, hard to say it, but yep,Not all for sure.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
No, not all.
I mean I was never prayed upon,for example.
But again, like going toCatholic school in South Florida
.
My mom was my first gradeteacher.
She taught at the school that Iwent to.
That's the only way that wecould have afforded for me to go
to Catholic school, or mybrother to go to Catholic school
, because my mom taught there.
My dad was a firefighter, mymom was a teacher.
(17:13):
Oh yeah, it's kind ofstereotypical.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
They're both heroes too, of like the best
professions.
Add in nurses and people inmedical stuff, and that's a
trifecta.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
First responders.
For sure yes.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
I mean my dad retired at 45.
So he's been retired, I think,longer than he was actually in
the fire department at thispoint.
But yeah, I came out around 22as well.
That's also when I lost myvirginity the same guy that I
came out for.
I stole my virginity, so Ididn't.
I don't know.
I thought that being gay was.
I thought it was a phase Like Ithought it was a part of
puberty.
If that makes sense To readthis book and grasp his story,
(17:59):
I'm really curious to read itnow.
I'm really curious, good.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
I'll read it to you over the phone.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Perfect.
Oh, my God, that'd be beamazing.
I'll record it or something Itold blaine, I was like does he,
you know, does he um narrate it?
And he kept on telling me read.
No, he, there is no book onaudible whatever.
But I compared it to matthewmcconaughey narrating his book
green lights and I loved it.
And if you ever yeah, yeah.
(18:26):
To listen anything matthewmcconaughey does narrating wise
is amazing yeah, for him tonarrate his book I think it'd be
awesome if he did narrate yourbook.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
But yeah, well, actually we talked about it and,
um, it would be like an actor.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
You know, somebody else really why, why, why, why
is it I?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
don't know.
That's just what the publishersaid is typically the way it
goes, because I guess there's alot of like training with the
pauses and all of that.
You know, mcconaughey is anamazing actor, so you know, if I
did it it would probably belike 20 takes.
It'd be like blaine no kidding.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Actually I can't imagine doing an Audible book
Like that's like a lot of work Ican imagine Seems like it would
be.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I mean I don't know Plus they have like an accent
and all that.
That's what makes it perfect.
You know, I know, I know.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Talk like a New Yorker when.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
I do readings.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
there are a couple of scenes where I like push in the
New York, Like there's this onescene with this girl from a
pizza parlor, callous, and thepizza parlor.
So if I do a book readingsomewhere I kind of like go into
that voice, which is kind offun because she's like very like
slimy New York.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I would love that.
I'll do it.
I'll do it.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
So back to the book, really quick.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Sorry, my apologies.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
I do back to the book really quick.
Sorry, my apologies.
I do have a question.
What do you think andy learnsfrom his first love.
Well, that's a really goodquestion I thought their, I,
their relationship was so cute.
Him and ben, just so you know,he falls in love with this guy
ben after a very not good firstexperience with the guy.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Yeah, I think ben is.
I think it allows him tounderstand what it feels like
that you can actually fall inlove with another man, that it's
not a fantasy or a thought, buthe actually had emotional,
romantic feelings for this guyand they were returned and so I
think that excitement and thatrealization to him was you know
(20:28):
everything, because that justmeant life opens up and it's
kind of like a dream come truefor somebody that's that was
struggling for all of thoseyears to figure it out or to
know like is it a phase and youknow, to go through all of that
stuff.
So I think it was a revelationfor him.
And then, you know, then it gotinto the reality of dating
(20:49):
somebody and like theirdifferences and all of that
stuff.
But I think it was a tremendousleap of growth for him.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
I think that's something like every gay man
Every gay man can really connectwith, like that first time that
you find love and well, Ishould say I hope everyone sorry
, yeah he's just so nervous.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
He's so nervous no, he's not.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
I know I never.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I never have these issues it's true, though, I mean
you're, you're a publishedauthor, it's, it's a big deal um
, but I think that's what everygay man can really connect with.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
I think that's what every gay man can connect with.
I know when I found my firstlove, it was like wow, that
feeling, and you really feelthat in your words when you,
when you wrote that, and I'msure that's what you were going
for, but it was really beautiful, I think yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
And you know like, personally, I still go through
that.
I still have that feeling likeyou meet somebody and it's just
like, oh my God, like my lifecould change.
It doesn't happen that oftenhow many times in a life but
butterflies, and yeah, it'sfantastic.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I love the butterflies in the stomach
feeling.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Reed is Mr Butterflies over here.
He is like literally the worst.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
No.
So Blaine acts like I fall inlove with every guy that I ever
meet, and that's not true at all.
I think we vastly differ in ourdating styles, I guess, and our
body counts for sure but yeah,so sorry.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
So I guess for me I have so many questions because
you also chose to leave it verylike open-ended and like I love
that.
I mean I love that.
I guess that's the point.
You said that you're kind ofit's like a summer arc, right Is
that?
Are you doing a sequel or like?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
you know, yeah, are you going to make it a series.
Sorry not to not to interrupt,but it vaguely resembles the
summer I turned 16.
Obviously completely different.
I like that yeah yeah, turned16.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Obviously completely different.
I like that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But yeah, well, you know, likeI never I didn't write it with
that intention and I didn'twrite the end with, like we're
going to continue with thecharacters, because I just I
never knew it was going to getpublished.
So I just like.
But the end I really struggledwith, like how do I end it?
And then I thought well, well,I'm not going to say anything
(23:28):
about the end, but anything moreabout it.
But I was trying.
So many people have brought upthat they like yeah, you did a
good job, you did a good job,but I was trying to.
I mean, a bunch of people were,uh, commenting that they like
the characters and they want tosee what happened.
Even a couple of the reviewers,I think, in the glnr.
They said something at the endlike we really want to see where
these characters go.
So, since I've written veryrough drafts, not of the novels
(23:59):
but of where it would continueto have, of years, but maybe
just sections pulled from theirlife, like three month, sections
pulled from like 1980 or 1982,and like where they go when that
is I don't know yet Like whathappens to them, that that comes
in, all the development and allbut that has been tossed around
.
But I'm writing something elsenow because I feel like I need,
(24:21):
like a palate cleanser, to dosomething else and then I may
return to the characters I have.
So many ideas for so many books.
It's kind of hard, you know.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, I think this one in particular would be you
could do so many continuationswith them, and I think it's also
great because I think for thereader, you can also create your
own endings as well, which isalways kind of beautiful as well
.
That's how much I connectedwith them.
I know I've kind of like, in myopinion, like continue the
(24:51):
story, which I think it's alwayskind of beautiful as well.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
But I do want to know what your version.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
I know I have so many alternate versions too.
I just I loved it, but I wouldlove to know I would love to
know what your version is,though I'll save that.
I hope it's good.
I hope it's good um me too.
What was your most surprising?
I guess, reaction so far fromreaders that's another good
(25:22):
question, Blaine.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
I think it was from the parents that wrote.
I wasn't writing it necessarilyfor LGBTQ plus audience.
I wanted it to be a little bitmore mainstream.
But I didn't expect parentswriting to say how emotional and
how important it was for themto read it as sort of a
(25:46):
prescription to how to, almostlike, look for signs and make
sure that their children feltcomfortable with whatever they
had to tell them not just comingout or anything but anything
and that was really powerful tome.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
So that was definitely my answer to that
Surprising and lovely If thiswas to be made into a movie,
have you thought about who wouldplay like Andy and Ben and?
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Elena as I was writing the book, so this is
part of I don't know if otherwriters do this I pulled
characters, mostly actors, sothat I could visualize who they
might look like.
But they're all too old now toplay these characters because it
started several years ago and Idon't know enough about some of
(26:33):
the young actors.
I think Josh, the guy that wasin Challengers I think he would
make a really good Andy, buthe's probably getting too old
now.
What's his last name?
He's British and for Elena, Ipictured not somebody to play
her, but like Billie Eilish or ayoung Emma Stone.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
That's kind of who I picture Quirky.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Really, oh really, I like that.
I think Billie Eilish would beperfect, not to cast her, but
like in my mind she was perfect.
Oh good, I'm glad you agree.
Yeah, and Leo would be likeshe's a little stoic.
She'd be more like Kate Winslet.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, that would make sense too, you could do the
older versions, though, of thoseactors, like those actors that
you didn't want.
That could be the grown upversions.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, very interesting.
Yeah, for the third seriesmaybe I like that, I like that.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I've got another random question because I think
elena is such an interestingcharacter.
So if she had tiktok in 1978,what would she post?
What would be like her tiktokthing?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
well, she's a rolling stones fanatic, right, so so
we're talking about her tiktokthen.
So it'd be a lot of stuff aboutmick jagger the stones.
She was kind of like a poprocker girl, um, and she wanted
she kind of like movie stars.
So she would probably, like youknow, have lots of clips of
actresses that she admired andwriters.
(28:01):
You know, she's a littleprecocious, like Andy's a little
precocious, so I think it wouldbe more Bruce Springsteen which
plays a little role in this.
I think she was like a musicgirl and I think that was really
big in that era like rock androll, like the Stones concert in
the book happened in New Yorkon that night, 1978, at the
radio, got really bad reviews.
(28:22):
So I like that was fun, likedigging, like totally geeking
out on like some of the factsand stuff, wow so you researched
that.
Wow, that's amazing but withreally detailed yeah, it's
easier.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
It's easier for sure, and I also like with all the
scarves that she wore as well, Icould really see, yeah, yeah
just like all on scarf talk,like I love it.
I can totally picture this 70sgirl in my head.
She would be a huge tiktokcelebrity.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I just could see it I was like picturing joanne
worley and all that, like thescarves, like, and, uh, martha
graham, like they would wearthem over their forehead, and I
was like, oh, I like the idea ofthis, like high school kid
wearing them because sheinherited them from her
grandmother.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, I absolutely love that.
My mom has like a thousandscarves.
I mean I don't wear them, butyeah, I could totally see that I
don't know where they're goingto go.
Yeah, right, so I guess what'syour advice for young writers
that want to get published?
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Tell your stories, just write.
We need to tell stories to letpeople know who we are and how
we feel.
And or make up stories.
You know, write fiction butthat's how we're heard and
that's how we put it into thecanon.
And there are so many ways topublish now and people are
publishing directly to TikTokand you know, like it's research
(29:48):
how to get your stories outthere, have fun with them, have
them be somewhat authentic ormaybe complete fantasy, I don't
know, but do it.
And the other thing is like justin general for all of us, like
I said earlier, like I didn'thave this fantasy that someday I
was going to write a novel.
You know, like things justhappen sometimes and if I did
write one, I didn't think I youknow like how would I know it
(30:11):
would ever get like wellreceived and all of that.
So it's just two stuff.
If you feel like you want to dosomething, do it, because you
don't know where it's going togo, and follow it through you
know like there are a lot sorry,I didn't mean to interrupt you.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
How long?
Speaker 3 (30:26):
did it take you to?
write the book well, it took along time because they like,
early on I wasn't writing a book, I was writing stories.
And then I compiled all thesestories and then I showed them
to a couple of people and then Ithink I was encouraged I work
really well with encouragement,positive reinforcement, so like
if somebody was like so then Ishowed it to a writer friend, um
(30:47):
, who's well published and known, christopher bram, and he was
like robert, you're a writer andhe's a lot of work.
I think it was like double insize, a lot of editing, um, but
that that affirmation excited meand pushed me to want to go
further.
And it's also like.
Another thing is like seek outother people's opinions for
(31:08):
young writers, young dancers,young actors, whatever sports.
Like ask people, ask olderpeople that know what they, that
know their craft or know theirsport.
Like how do I navigate?
I navigate this, how do I?
Because people want to giveinformation.
I know now I love givinginformation to people and
(31:30):
sharing knowledge and that sortof thing and people genuinely.
It's a beautiful thing about Ithink human nature is that
people do enjoy helping, helpinglike younger people sort of
come up and mentoring and thatsort of thing.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Percent.
Now, what were you doing whenyou first started the book?
Did you ever get to a pointwhere you're like I can't, I
can't dive into this full timebecause I have to pay bills and
whatnot?
Was that ever difficult for you?
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Oh yeah, I mean I started out as an architect and
went to school for architectureand did all of that and then I
had a communication design firmwith a business partner.
For many years we worked with alot of the Silicon Valley
companies when they were comingup in the early 2000s and so I
had a business.
(32:18):
When I started this, this waslike weekend project or, you
know, bored in Florida project.
So I was almost up until twoyears ago working full time
Aside from this, you know,because I'm not a trained writer
or any of that.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
And what happened to the architectural firm or design
firm?
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
It just petered out, it closed.
I moved to Naples and we had anoffice in Chicago, san
Francisco, a small one in Naples, a small one in Chicago, and I
think it just had run its course, like technology was changing
everything.
We changed several times overthe course of the 15 or so years
because of the internet, and Ithink I just kind of burned out.
(33:03):
To be perfectly honest, it waslike flying to these different
offices and I burned out as welland just decided to try
something else Once I got theaffirmation.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
That's awesome.
I'm probably going to pick yourbrain off recording.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
As far as architecture, yeah, that was
great, though.
I mean, I love being atarchitecture school.
I worked on a bunch ofinternational projects, most of
which I never got to see inperson, but I love that, I love
architecture, I love design.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
so, yeah, that's a huge reason why I love Chicago
and I'm not hating on New YorkCity by any means, because I've
got to say I've never been toNew York City.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
You sure you don't want to hate on New York City.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
New York is my—I love New York.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Let's do it for the TikTok.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
I'm not going to hate on New York City.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Please say something that you hate New York City
Please.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I don't.
I'll be very clear I don't hateanything except for maybe I
hate the word hate yeah exactly,but I've never had a urge or
want to go to New York City forany other reason than to, maybe,
you know, see all the touristystuff like the Statue liberty
(34:22):
and you know, chrysler buildingand whatnot.
Chicago I love, though.
I love everything about chicago.
I love the architecture, I lovethe buildings, I love beautiful
the vibe, the exception of thewind.
I'm okay.
I remember going to chicago forthe first time, burning my face
right here because I wasn'tprepared at all but my face was
completely burnt.
But yeah, that's why I leftchicago.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
So that's what I was gonna say.
Yeah, the architecture here isfreaking amazing like new and
old it's just, there's not likea gap, it's just kind of like.
I live in this building thatwas built in 1924, 23, and it's
phenomenal.
You know, a little creaky hereand there, but it's great.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
And then they're beautiful new buildings and you
know, it's, it's, I love it, Ifeel like it still has that big
city vibe, but not on top ofeach other, like I never got the
feel of everyone's on top ofyou.
I didn't feel claustrophobicwhen I was in chicago, if that
makes sense.
So yeah, not hating on one ofthe things, yeah, no, it's
(35:21):
different.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
new york like I describe New York now, which
will always be considered hometo a degree it just has too many
people.
There are just too many peoplethere now.
It's grown so much that youcan't get things done and it's
just not as enjoyable For me.
I was there in my 20s and thatwas perfect.
(35:42):
Because you have that staminato do it right now, I'll go for
a few days here and there andlove it.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, I mean, that's how I feel about Florida.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
You can drive and you can yeah.
Yeah, there are dogs and thereare kids in the neighborhood and
yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah, it's like a good even mix of a big city vibe
good even mix of a big cityvibe.
But you know beautifularchitecture, artwork and spaced
out.
You don't feel like you're ontop of your neighbor even though
you're in the lake, which islike a sea you're not.
Yeah, really, it's the lake'samazing here.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
The lake's amazing, it's like an ocean or you know a
sea, it's just in the beaches,and yeah, yeah, I could go on,
but Well, I have a question Iwon't Kind of a closing question
, so what's next for you?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
So, and how do you decide what's next and what to
write?
And I always kind of wonderthat, as a I'm a more analytical
person, I'm not a creative type.
Well, I guess I am a creativetype, but I have my own way of
being creative.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Like, how do you decide what to write?
Yeah, and then you write thenext one, and so I'm spending a
lot of time now enjoyable time,you know talking about the book
while I'm trying to get thesecond one going and I have a
few chapters out.
But I will say it was like Iwas working on another one about
three brothers, three Southernbrothers, and I was getting into
it, this story about an aspectof her life and a love in her
(37:18):
life, and I took that because Ithought it was fascinating and
decided to run with it.
And now it's like completelydifferent.
But it's just coming up with aconcept which is I'm familiar
with in architecture, right, orlike in painting.
(37:39):
I would come up with a conceptlike this is about Antarctica or
melting icebergs, which I did aseries of paintings on, but I
would come up this is about.
This book is basically aboutvulnerability to me, the
vulnerability of youth.
So that was the context of it.
And the next one is the conceptis it's a woman with a lot of
(38:00):
secrets and how that shapes theway she acts throughout her life
.
She's surrounded by a lot oflgbtq people in her family.
Her son's gay, so there are acouple of little sub stories,
but it's another sort of familysaga and, um, I think it started
from my mom telling me a pieceof her history and being like
(38:21):
ding, ding.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
That's what I want to expand upon, you know.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Yeah, that's amazing.
Yeah, I find it like well, evenwith, and then I think about it
all the time.
That's really great.
Yeah, no, I mean it'sinteresting.
I just find it reallyfascinating how people come up
with stories.
And even for me, when I'mcoming up with like tiktok ideas
, like I'm like, okay, how do Icome up with them?
Speaker 3 (38:45):
and I guess learned experience is probably the
easiest way, right we all havekind of crazy lives yeah and
crazy people around us and ifyou, if you take that and like,
expand upon it and make it evencrazier, then you know it
becomes.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
That's the fun part, you know I mean just to speak on
blaine's behalf for a moment.
I this these are show notes,for example.
Right, and in all honesty, it'swritten like either a script or
a book.
You are writing a story here,in a sense, with these show
notes, yeah, and it's.
Believe me, blaine is extremelycreative about creative about
(39:21):
it, and I almost feel bad that Inever, ever, use the no offense
to you, blaine works his buttoff to do that.
But I think you are a storywriter or a producer in some way
, shape or form some sort ofsomething there.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
And probably by writing, it gets into it.
Yeah, like you, it's how youlearn it, it's how you
understand it, and I would loveto flip the table a little bit
and ask you guys what you'repassionate about, each of you,
what you know like.
For me now I could just sayeasily writing.
Is there something you knowlike?
Is there a writer in you, or abuilder, or I don't know like
(40:01):
what's?
What's your creative outlets?
Speaker 2 (40:03):
In a perfect world I would.
I mean, I'm in real estate andI work for a roofing and general
contracts company.
Right, I'm hoping to somedayfor those two to combine into
one.
And, similar to Chip and JoannaGaines doing Fixer Upper, I
would love to buy houses, flipthem, sell them, donate them to
you know underprivileged.
Buy houses, flip them, sellthem, donate them to you know
(40:23):
underprivileged communities thatyou know need maybe section
eight housing or somethingthat's further, further down the
road.
But I would love yeah, I wouldlove to do that.
That would.
That would be really amazingfor me.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
That's amazing.
Blame that yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
I can Like, yeah, just keep expanding on it For
sure.
I mean, I really want to focuson content creation.
I think media company of my ownwould be great, because I've
done it for so many brands.
That's really kind of like whatI want to do, I think, because
I love that.
Yeah, I've been doing digitalmarketing and ads for so long.
I'm just.
I do enjoy the creativity ofthis.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
You are talented at it.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
I will say I love it.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
It's just a lot of work, but it's about consistency
and just keeping it up andhaving ideas and time.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
We're working on getting Blaine to delegate a
little, a little more delegationand a little less.
You know full control overeverything, type deal that's
difficult for people.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Yeah, that's difficult for a lot of people
but it really helps and likethings like chat, gpt, people
are telling me now like well,you could use it to organize all
of this and all of that andthat might be your assistant.
Like maybe it's not a person,but maybe you can use AI to help
be your virtual assistant.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
I do and I talk to Chat like he's a buddy of mine,
I like I'll turn him on, put myphone up in my truck and have a
whole therapy session on my wayto to record this podcast.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Yeah, I named mine.
Mine is Elena after thecharacter, a character in the
book, and I say hey Elena, she'slike hey Robert, I'm like
that's hysterical.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Yours has a female voice.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Yeah, I don't know why I just yeah.
I don't know why I just yeah, Idon't know why, but it does
have a female voice mine hasthis really male voice and I
didn't, I didn't pick it out,but watch just for example hey
chat, hey there.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
How's it going?
What's on your mind today?
Speaker 1 (42:37):
I turn them off though you have the surfer one,
I have the more dude one.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
That's a sexy voice though, so calming Sorry.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Yeah, he's good, you can go change it.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
I think of a surfer as a dude.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
I think his name is Cove or Cade.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
I'd have to check the settings.
I love that.
You know what.
I never tried to put the voiceon, so I don't know if it's a
male or a female voice.
I just type where I speak.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Yes, and then it comes out as words.
I got to.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
But I.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
So I'll show you.
It's this, it's this I'll sendyou, I'll send you, I'll text
you and send you what to do withlike a screenshot and screen
recording or whatnot, but it'sit's very efficient and easy for
someone that drives all thetime that if I need to access it
, I just say hey, what's up, youknow.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Yeah, I haven't named him yet, but eventually I will.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
What did you name yours?
I'm sorry, Did you want to?
Speaker 3 (43:39):
did you want or no?
Speaker 2 (43:39):
I mean, we can play red flag with you it's, it's
kind of it's about dating.
I'd love it.
I love games like this you doit's about.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
I would love let's go .
It's a challenge.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Dating is a challenge love to know your answers and
it's relevant.
Yeah, so our last episode wasabout the fact that I don't
really, uh, have, I'm not goodwith red flags, with men, okay,
how I picked a really bad lastboyfriend, and this is really
relevant to the story.
(44:04):
So, yeah, I think this would bea great game to play for you.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Yeah, this is a real casual atmosphere here.
Casual but for professional.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
I love it.
I'm having so much fun.
I'm like this is freaking great.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Flag it.
I love it.
I'm having so much fun.
I'm like this is freaking great.
Flag it or fix it, so would you.
Is this a red flag, which meansyou wouldn't go with the guy,
or would you try to fix himReady?
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
He messages you sup at 1.38am.
That would be effective.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Yeah, Wait meaning like he's never messaged you
before.
You guys linked up on what youknow.
Of course, my questionautomatically was does he have
your number already?
Have you guys spoken before?
And he?
Speaker 3 (44:52):
yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
You're on a dating app.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
That wouldn't bother me.
I be like oh good, yeah, here'sanother way.
Yeah, that's good getting waytoo drunk on the first date that
would probably unless we bothgot drunk, and then I wouldn't
care then it would be fun.
But if it just he were, he wasand I wasn't, then that would be
a little bit weird maybe.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
I told Blaine the last episode red flag yes, well,
so it depends on your level ofdrunk, right like I didn't go
into depth about the one of thetwo dates that I went on
recently where the guy wasalready hammered before I even
got to the bar to the restauranthe was already like that's red
flag.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
Yeah, he was already like five, that's red flag.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Yeah, he was already like five old fashions in and
then, you know, still had towait for me to have a drink and
dinner.
But I ended up going with himback to his place it was in the
same neighborhood just to sayNot to hook up, just to see his
place and meet his dog.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
And make sure he got home safely.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Right and on the way on the drive between there's a
gas station in the neighborhood,from the restaurant to his
place.
He had me go to the gas stationthat's right there in his
neighborhood, pick up two gasstation bottles of wine and
bring it back.
He got into one of the bottlesof wine, finished it to himself
(46:19):
at his place, then proceeded totry to get into the second
bottle of wine, right I had nowine at all whatsoever.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
I had nothing to drink, right?
Yeah, geez, could not get thecork out.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
He he pulls out a drill, a power drill, and says
reed, I'm gonna hold the bottleyou drill into the cork to pull
it out.
This is how hammered he was.
I'm like I don't think it'sgonna work out.
I gotta go.
I'm sorry you sober up and havea little bread and I'll talk to
you some other time not a loafof bread yeah with you, I'm with
(46:48):
you on that.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Yeah, I mean the five , the five drinks.
When you show up now, thatshows he's not serious or he has
an issue.
And who wants to deal with that, like you know?
Get it fixed and then I'll goout with you, right?
Yeah, that shows he's notserious or he has an issue.
And who wants to deal with that, like you know, get it fixed
and then I'll go out with you,right?
Speaker 2 (47:00):
yeah, that's what's scary.
I think he has an issue.
I think he's one of thosepeople that has like a toddler
in his, in his car, on the wayto the office every day yeah,
okay.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
So yeah, I agree, you know getting too drunk on the
first date.
My guy fell out of a booth at asteakhouse, so that wasn't good
.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
You're giving me good plot devices here.
I like these stories, the drilland falling out of the booth.
I mean I enjoy having drinks,but you know I don't get
shit-faced drunk.
I don't know if I can say that,but shit-faced drunk.
It's just like getting I lovete tequila, and that can just
make you so happy and horny.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Yeah, I think some people just get so nervous on
dates they just like take it toofar yeah, it was like blaine
when the podcast started.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
That's not a good side now I'm just kidding, but
wait, what kind of tequila?
Because I'm similar in thesense that, if I do, don't give
me cafe Patron, but give meregular Patron, clear Patron,
clear Patron.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
And I'm a fun.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
I'm a I'm a great time Cafe.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
Patron, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
I'm probably still a great time, but I might be naked
in the middle of the street, oryou know a lot to handle.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, so Well, you know a lotto handle.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
You know what I mean.
Yeah, so well, you have to pacetequila, like, if you drink too
much, too fast, then you'relike a fool, and I've.
That's never happened to me.
But yeah, no, I like Casamigos,I like Don Julio, like for the
basics, or Patron, and there'ssome really delicious ones, like
that Casa Azul I think, but Idon't drink that much, but I
(48:39):
like, yeah, I love tequila.
It makes me happy.
I think I read or heard at onepoint that tequila is the only
alcohol that is not a depressant, because it's true, it is an
upper.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
You are correct, one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
Definitely makes me happy.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Yeah, FYI, here in Texas we drink Ranch Waters,
which is just really tequila,Topo, Chico and fresh lime juice
with a little tahini on the rim.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
So you should try it if you like tequila.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
It's delicious.
Yeah, yeah, I love tequila.
Yeah, I haven't been thereforever.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
I have a couple of friends over there actually,
next one, okay.
Speaker 3 (49:25):
Flag it or fix it on his dating profile.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
It says no fems fats mask only uh, should I be pc
here or should I give you?
We're not pc.
Speaker 3 (49:30):
We're not pc, gays I know I I don't like that there's
no fems, or, but I'm attractedto masculine guys.
Well, it wouldn't be a red flagnecessarily, unless they said
anything derogatory or negative.
I mean, it may be a preference,it wouldn't be the part that I
love, but because I am attractedto masculine guys, that would
(49:53):
override the other part.
So I would probably be okaywith it, with a little bit of a
footnote.
You know, like I don't likethis, but yeah, yeah, he's
masculine.
Okay, let's talk I think that's.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
I mean, I think that's fair, I agree.
I mean I think as long asyou're just not like rude to
everybody, I think people areallowed to have preferences.
I think this is like it's soridiculous.
I'll be the controversial oneand say I just think it's
ridiculous when people are likeoh, you're not allowed to have
preferences.
I don't know why.
Gays yeah, every gay has apreference.
Speaker 3 (50:25):
But I don't know that they need to say that in the
profile, but whatever I agree.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
I don't think you have to say it in the profile.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Well, that's like saying why doesn't anybody have
top or bottom in it?
Because nobody wants to?
I don't know.
I feel like people just want toget to the point, like, are you
a top or are you a bottom?
Because if I fall for thisperson, it's exhausting, it's
personality.
And then it comes down to aweek in you find out you're both
bottoms.
Even though these days you haveto be versed, apparently.
(50:54):
I don't know.
Yeah, I think it depends onchemistry.
Speaker 3 (50:57):
That stuff to me is like I might feel different with
one person than I do withanother person.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
You know, I don't like all those labels and stuff.
Yeah, I consider myself veryneutral in that department,
though I have been called onething over the other.
But I don't know.
I feel like in the bedroom Iwant like, if you have that
connection with somebody, let'sroll around and fall off the bed
(51:22):
for crying out loud, I don'tcare Like yeah, it's about fun
and pleasure, Like you know.
Speaker 3 (51:28):
like, yeah, Find the right spots, you know.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (51:33):
What are?
Speaker 1 (51:33):
we talking about hey, so this is my favorite one.
So you're dating somebody,you're in a relationship I
wouldn't know.
You're dating somebody and hesays he wants something real,
but he hasn't deleted grinderyet I want something real, but
I'm not willing to deletegrinder.
Speaker 3 (51:49):
I don't know I would say if you're far enough along
and you're kind of like decidedyou're not sleeping with other
people, delete the freakingGrindr who needs it?
Like what's the point, Unlesssomebody says, oh, I'm just
looking at it.
Depends on the character of theperson and how trustworthy.
But I would be happy to deleteall the apps if I were into
(52:10):
somebody Bar none.
So maybe I would expect that ofsomeone, but I might give a
little bit of grace because Iknow that I am a freak.
Nobody else thinks the way I doabout these things.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
No, actually I've learned that people do.
I've learned that people do.
They're just few and farbetween, but they do yeah.
Speaker 3 (52:31):
I mean yeah, I did delete it.
I say delete it, yeah, I agree,I agree on that one, yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
I just don't see how you could focus or invest time
into someone when you have otherdistractions.
Does that make sense?
It's like trying to.
It's basically window shopping.
Still, you're not really doingit like if you're still on I
agree.
You know why are we dating so?
Speaker 1 (52:53):
yeah yeah, I love to window shop.
Okay, suddenly acts like twodates are a committed
relationship.
Red flag, that's me.
Speaker 3 (53:05):
No, I've been guilty of that.
Oh, because I'm veryenthusiastic, so I would say red
flag because that's somethingI've changed in myself, but I'm
kind of like, but I'm guilty oflike, oh, this is a good thing,
I love this, yeah yeah, I'm nota relationship like let's move
(53:25):
in yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
So have you ever been on the on the other end of it,
though, where you take somebodyelse out on two dates, or are
you of the of the sense whereyou know, know on the first date
whether or not this is going towork out?
Speaker 3 (53:39):
No, there's no way to know that.
I mean, you could have thebutterflies and be all excited
about it for several dates, butyeah, but I would be creeped out
if somebody were doing that tome.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
So red flag?
Ok, that's a good way ofthinking about it.
You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
What's the next one, blaine?
The next one is grainy photoson the profile that look like
they were taken 10 years ago.
Total red flag.
Yeah, I agree.
You know who doesn't agree,reid.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
What do you mean?
Speaker 1 (54:14):
No, because you ask if you should talk to these guys
.
Speaker 2 (54:20):
This is why I have this question so, blaine, I
still post pictures that areprobably grainy.
That I took yesterday with myvery fancy iphone pro.
Whatever, blaine.
Speaker 1 (54:33):
So that's why I'm like what I mean.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
It could just be a mistake, maybe they're, maybe
they're army guys on leave or inafghanistan, and maybe that's
why the photo's grainy.
Speaker 3 (54:40):
I don't know, but I like to okay he's like, but you
can tell like old, but you couldtell old, grainy and you could
tell like, okay, this guyprobably doesn't take good
pictures.
I mean, I think there's adifference when they're trying
to hide it, or or I love it,when the first picture is like
hey.
And then you go three photos inand you're like, oh, you just
(55:03):
aged 20 years and look like acompletely different person.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
Those are the worst.
Speaker 3 (55:09):
I've actually asked a couple of people like which
photo do you look like?
Now it doesn't go well, it'samazing.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
That's all the red flags.
No, I just started back on themagain and I've really only met
people in real life over thelast few years and I have to say
I had to get off because it'stoo overwhelming, it's too much.
Speaker 3 (55:30):
It's too much.
But it's also like when youmeet someone in person.
Like when you meet someone inperson, I have a much better
chance if I go to a party or to,you know, out to a bar with
friends Like last night I wentto a sports bar and I ended up
talking to all these guys theywere all couples, but it was
really fun and I think you pushyourself a little bit more and
(55:55):
you know that there's like thatchemistry there right away.
The apps are just like like ohmy god, it's such a waste of
time.
Not that I don't use them, butyeah, they frustrate me.
I just want to let you be in arelationship and be added to the
whole fishbowl, have you beenapproached by any couples?
Speaker 2 (56:09):
is that?
Is that what you're like?
Speaker 3 (56:11):
you were meeting a lot of people, but right, yeah,
oh, not last, you mean lastnight, no, they were just um,
they just happened to be couples.
Like I didn't know.
I was like oh you single?
No, are you single?
No, I'm with him you know, thatkind of thing and you're like,
okay, yeah, it was more likethat but they were.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
We had a lot of fun talking yeah is that it for the
questions blade?
Speaker 3 (56:31):
is he laughing or is he it's fuzzy?
His photo is fuzzy.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
No, sorry, I was choking.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
Did you?
Have questions for us, robertGosh this is such a good
dialogue.
Speaker 3 (56:43):
We could just like order dinner in and keep talking
.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
I mean these usually, yeah, these usually go Tell
about dinner.
Speaker 3 (56:51):
Yeah, it's so much fun.
You're both like you'reentertaining and I don't know
you just kind of like pair offeach other very well.
Speaker 1 (56:59):
Cool.
So anyway, robert, I just wantto thank you for writing
something that'll really staywith so many of us because you
know, I think we'll all kind ofremember our summers in between.
I mean, I know I did.
I have so many of them and Ireally just appreciated this
book so much.
It was just really incredible.
(57:20):
So thank you for giving it tous.
I find books such a specialthing.
Thank you so much.
I'm going to give a copy, Iknow, to my mom now.
Wonderful.
So thanks so much to ourviewers.
Pick up this summer in between,wherever books are sold and,
robert, you want to kind of telleveryone where you can get it
(57:41):
and follow you and all thatstuff.
Speaker 3 (57:43):
We'll put all the links too in our Absolutely I
will, and I'm just going toshare, not because it's giving
me a big head, but I wasselected as a finalist for the
NIEA Awards two weeks ago, sothe books will now have this
cool little gold seal on it.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
Yeah, that was a shocker.
Speaker 3 (58:02):
Thank you.
It made me really happy and thebook is available pretty much
in all online formats Amazon,apple, barnes, noble, I think,
target, I think in Europe, saxoor Saxon and any independent
bookstore can order it ifthey're not carrying it.
And we're trying to.
It's a grassroots effort tomake bookstores more aware of
(58:23):
the book, because so many comeout every week and they can
order it for you or order it foryour book club and that sort of
thing.
And on my website,robertroschcom, you can just hit
a link and it'll take you toall of the places that you can
buy the book amazing, well,awesome well I'm so glad that
you are our first author and ohmy god, so much, so much.
Speaker 1 (58:45):
You guys are amazing, you're amazing thank you so
much, thank you for dealing withme as my, as my first author
interview.
I I really appreciate it.
You were awesome, so were youboth of you Great.
Speaker 2 (58:59):
Thank you.
Thank you, Robert.
Speaker 1 (59:00):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (59:04):
And thank you all for joining us for Coffee with Gabe
we could rap about somethingelse.
Speaker 1 (59:07):
Please do, please do.
Yes, sorry, we will definitelyhave you back.
I mean, we definitely are goingto continue having more guests
and we've just been reallyenjoying it.
Continue having more guests andwe're just been really enjoying
it.
So yeah, so cheers, beautiful.
Speaker 3 (59:18):
Cheers.
Speaker 1 (59:19):
There you go, thank you.
Speaker 3 (59:21):
Cheers, salute.
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