October 1, 2024 • 27 mins
Some people just have a good heart. Deanna Perry was one of those people that couldn't say no to anyone in need. If you needed a place to stay, Deanna's house is where you went. If you needed a warm meal or a new set of clothing, Deanna's house was the place to get it. In a community that had many people in need, Deanna and her family were that beacon of light in a dark world. Many people took them up on their generosity and someone took advantage of it. In the early morning of October 15, 2010, someone decided to Burn the Bridge she had opened to them. With the smell of gasoline and the banging of glass, the house was set a blaze. The flames spread quickly around the house and onto the front porch making it impossible to get out of the house. Charles Climer struggled to get upstairs to his grandmother, Deanna, and a small child by the name of Brianna Smith. As his lungs filled with smoke, he tried to escape the house to get help, but would later be found deceased from smoke inhilation. Deanna and young Brianna would not get out of the house. When the fire was extinguished they were found together in the upstairs bedroom. Who would want to kill such a wonderful family? Who would use fire to kill a young child? Could it have been someone who used Deanna's kind heart to get what they wanted, then became enraged when she asked then to leave? To this day the killer(s) are still on the loose. Hopefully, one day justice will be served.
Contact Information: Columbus Division of Police HQ120 Marconi Blvd.Columbus, OH 43215(614) 645-4760
- Crime Stoppers (Anonymous Tips) - (614) 645-4749
Contact Information: Cold Case MHS: coldcase@masonohioschools.com 513-398-5025 ext. 33304 or 513-967-0368
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Cold Case MHS, Monsters and Demons. We're Real Education, Metro Life. I'm your
(00:07):
co-host, Lydia Lisco, and we thank you for listening.
(00:37):
Make downs in memory, let's find the enemy. We won't leave it behind, behind every shadow.
A story to be told. Whom lies I was special, but some hearts have grown cold.
(01:02):
And the jumps of the darkness, stuff the girl remains behind every cold case.
There's people fighting day to day.
So welcome back, and this year's kind of unusual in the fact that
(01:23):
we had three groups pick fire cases. Now what's unusual about fire cases is that most people
don't really know much about them because when you think of cold cases, you think of shootings,
stabbings, strangulation, things like that. Not many people really think too much about fire
being used as a weapon. And for this year, it was really strange that we had three groups really
(01:44):
pick that up. And I'm going to let these students introduce themselves and talk a little bit about
their case. Hi, I'm Emilio. And I'm Ryan. So right off the bat, this unfortunately, this arson,
had three different victims. A woman by the name of Deanna Perry, her grandson, Charles Clymer Jr.,
(02:05):
and a child which was at the time living on the streets, but they brought her and her mother in.
This was Breonna Smith and her mother, Kristen Smith, however. Breonna Smith was the one who
had died in the fire. So start off by giving us just a little overview of the case. What happened
(02:25):
the night of the fire? Yeah, so on October 15, 2010, at around 5 a.m., Deanna Perry, Charles
Clymer, and Breonna Smith were all sleeping in the home when a fire erupted at their house.
It started on the front porch. It was clear to police as soon as they arrived that it was arson.
The fire started so quickly that when the firefighters got there, it was already too late.
(02:49):
They died of all died of smoking inhalation. However, Charles was found outside the home.
It was stated that he had tried to attempt to save Deanna and Breonna before he inevitably had to
jump out the window. So one thing that we noticed as Ryan had mentioned, how it was clear to the
police investigators that this was in fact an arson was that they noted that gasoline had been
(03:11):
poured around the entire proximity of the house and there had been Molotov cocktails that were
thrown upon the front porch. So this seems like a very obvious premeditated crime. Has
Breonna, did she have anything going on around her? Did Deanna anything or Charles Clymer,
was anyone want to take this sort of harsh action against any of them? So Deanna was known as someone
(03:37):
who would take people in who needed like a place to stay or meal. Any like support such as Kristen
Smith and Breonna Smith who needed some type of support to stay off the streets. It was suspected
by the family members and the police at the time that Breonna Smith had been the main target to
try to get back at Kristen Smith. We're not too sure as to like the exact motive of why someone
(04:03):
would try to get back at Kristen Smith by killing Breonna, but that is the main theory that we
were given by family members and what they had said that the police also thought. Well it has not
yet been proven there was some suspicion around the boyfriend of Kristen Smith, the mother of
Breonna Smith. At the time there were some internal tensions in the house so Kristen Smith decided to
(04:27):
leave the home and Breonna ended up staying so that she could stay off the streets. However,
Kristen's boyfriend, it was, although it has not yet been proven, it was suspected that Kristen's
boyfriend had gotten himself and a few other people to help them set the fire as a way to get back at Kristen.
(04:51):
Well the unusual thing about that though is that you said the boyfriend was with Kristen at the time
that the fire started. What are your thoughts on why he would be with her if he's trying to get
rid of her? So Kristen Smith was a drug addict that was stated by Rebecca Clymer and other people
(05:14):
who wrote the articles, the reporters who wrote the articles. Everything, all the information we
found about Kristen Smith led us to believe that she was a drug addict. So if she was a drug addict
she may have been, you know, she didn't feel like she was in control of her own life and she like
felt that she had to stay with somebody like her boyfriend at the time even though they might not
have had the best relationship. If it was like some sort of abusive relationship she might have been
(05:39):
not in control of her own life so she would have to stay with him. Kristen Smith had stayed at the
home previously with Deanna but because as we mentioned there's internal tension she ended up
leaving. One thing that they noted was that Kristen Smith the night of the fire she had
stayed over at her boyfriend's house which according to many other people was pretty unusual of her
(06:05):
especially because the tension between the relationship. So often in cold cases we talk
about victimology which is the circumstances surrounding the victims. We talk about high
risk versus low risk. So high risk victims are usually people who put themselves into more
dangerous situations such as drug addicts, prostitutes, things like that. Do you think Deanna
made herself more of a risk as a victim because she was so welcoming to all and letting people
(06:31):
like Kristen Smith into her life? So yeah that's interesting because that's one of the things that
we noted in our presentation that if Deanna was bringing in like high-risk people such as Kristen
Smith then she may have brought in somebody else who could have also potentially been some sort of
target that may have also been staying at her home. That was not mentioned by articles or family
(06:52):
members or anyone like that because of the relevancy of Kristen Smith and Breonna Smith and
like when they were staying at the home. It may not have been like as suspicion of other people
like staying in her home beforehand who also may have been high-risk lifestyles that also could
have been targeted. So it is interesting Deanna herself was not a high like a high-risk lifestyle
(07:14):
person but she may have also brought in other people who have high-risk lifestyles. Do you know
if there were any previous incidents in the house regarding like break-ins any of that kind of stuff
potentially with other people that she brought in or was this just like a one-off situation?
We don't know of many other people that Deanna brought in. It was a wide range so as with Kristen
(07:37):
and Breonna she'd bring in people from the streets but she would also oftentimes let family in. It was
a very open door scenario. She was very open to anyone who needed a roof over their head.
However based on all of the articles that we had managed to find and discussions with the family
it seemed that the there weren't many other people that were discussed.
(08:02):
Deanna didn't get rid of her but there were some tensions between her and Kristen correct.
Do we have any idea what those frictions were? What was the argument? Did she just throw her out?
Did Kristen leave on her own? Do we know? We don't know exactly for sure the circumstances
behind the tensions. It was mentioned in a couple articles that they had internal tensions and
(08:27):
some of her phone calls that they had internal tensions but they never specifically stated
exactly what kind of tensions. So we are not exactly too sure about what exactly
strained their relationship but we know that Kristen probably left on her own accord.
So you guys mentioned a lot about the articles. Let's talk a bit about your information finding
(08:47):
process. Was it easy for you? Were you able to get in contact with a lot of people? So tell me
a little bit about that. So especially with this case it was particularly difficult to find a lot
of information regarding this crime because at the beginning we initially thought that we had
found many many articles. We had somewhere around 10 or 12 just off the first few weeks.
(09:09):
However one thing that we noticed was that these articles seemed to have been recycled
from each other. There was an initial journalist we found Theodore Decker who had first written
the article and he was the most useful to us. We managed to get in communications with him.
However many of the other articles were written a few months a year several years after the
(09:32):
original article and they seem to be some either crime stopper organizations or just people trying
to get the story back out by taking and recycling the previous articles to make sure that information
stays afloat. What about from the police? Did you guys get anything or even from like the fire
department that may have been involved? Anything like that? We didn't like get into contact specifically
(09:56):
with any like fire departments or anything even though we did try to email the fire marshal and
our retired fire chief that may have also worked on the case and other detectives that may have
worked on the case. However we did get a FOIA request with the autopsy report that gave us
information about their carboxychemoglobin levels which confirmed that Charles had been found outside
with much much lower carboxychemoglobin levels than Deanna and Brianna but we did not get into
(10:21):
like any specific contact with like fire stations, fire marshals, retired fire chiefs or any like
detectives or anything. We were still in the process of trying to do that they have not gotten back
to us but we did get a FOIA request. Would you mind explaining what a FOIA request is? Yeah so it's a
freedom of information act that you can submit a request to get any sort of documents on any open
(10:44):
case such as autopsy reports and stuff like that. So we got all three from Franklin County
Coroner's office yeah so we got all their autopsy reports which just confirmed that they all died
of smoke inhalation. Now I think one thing to mention is that after we had gotten that influx of
information from the articles and we submitted those FOIA requests as Ryan had mentioned after
(11:07):
we started trying to talk to maybe some police departments we contact the arson department
unfortunately we weren't able to get a lot of information in there and for a few months at least
we kind of had an information drought where we kind of had to work with only a few articles that had
the original information so it became relatively difficult to try to find and pull out new information
(11:32):
we were really only able to get out of that info drought after we were looking back through the
articles that we already had and we found one that we originally set off as plagiarism we noted
that it was the exact same as one of the very first articles that we found it was a Facebook post
but when we looked into the comment section of that Facebook post that's when we finally managed
(11:56):
to find the family and we were able to get more information from them. So what kind of information
did you get from the family? So when we decided to talk to the family we wanted to focus more about
their account on who they were as people and try to like find out what like what kind of people
were victim worse so we could narrow down like what kind of people would do this to someone like them
(12:20):
so we focused on trying to get like more information and family accounts from like
what they think may have happened um what they thought of like maybe who may have done it maybe
some sort of type some type of like just more information on the family like on the victims in
general. When you did the dive into the family and talk to them that's a great source of information
(12:47):
about who they were but what is the problem with only getting information from the family?
If we only got information from the family there's obviously bias account up to it the information
that we got from them was very very valuable most of the facts about the case that they gave to us
checked out with the articles so we're just we we wanted to learn more about the family so like
(13:08):
their account obviously of Deanna and Charles and Brianna are probably the most valuable because
they're the ones who spent the most time with them but when it comes to like who may have done it
and something like that if there's obviously just a tad bit of bias there right and unfortunately
when we contact the family there's still a few things that we would be unable to clear up for
(13:30):
example one of the articles had mentioned how the police department released a statement saying how
they had decided to steer away from investigating the boyfriend who we were mentioning earlier
who seemed very suspicious and since we were unable to contact any of the departments we weren't
(13:51):
able to really find out why whether there was something that you know he had his own alibi
or whether or not they were looking into another person who seemed suspicious who we were just
unaware of so there was still that information kind of unable to be found. So would you be able to give
us like an idea of what happened the day before if there's any tensions maybe like the week before
(14:15):
the fire happened and then what happened after the fire how did the investigation proceed?
So in our phone call with Lucas Henderson he had stated that this is complete hearsay however he
did say that his nephew had heard Kristen Smith's boyfriend threaten Kristen Smith a couple days or
the day of the fire saying watch where you and that baby lay its head tonight obviously this
(14:39):
statement isn't you know backed by concrete evidence it is just a statement that we had in a phone
call however if this is true then it would it is like a very big part of like the type of tensions
that could have been there. As for the fire the day of the fire itself it was a little hard to get
that information because it was done as we mentioned earlier like 5 a.m. it was extremely dark not a
(15:04):
lot of people were even awake at the time to witness or see anyone do it so as far as we know at
around 4 30 a.m. that was when Ray Perry the husband of Diana and Charles Howard the father of Charles
Connor Jr. had both left for work and then between then and 5 a.m. was obviously when the fire
(15:27):
occurred at 5 a.m. somewhere between then people had to have come in and poured the gasoline and
set it alight so there's kind of that empty 30 minute space where someone may have come in to
burn down the house. Do we happen to know if the neighbors were ever interviewed or looked into as
(15:47):
a background to possibly see if maybe that house was not the one that was supposed to be burned?
We didn't get much information regarding about how maybe it was the wrong house but we do know
from an account of the neighbors that they themselves had been they were asleep at the time of the fire
and had only been woken up because the flames of the house were so great that they started
(16:11):
actually burning away at the sides of the neighboring houses next to it. So at the time they were
asleep as well. So right now it does appear that their house was the target for some reason.
As far as we know. So in our other two fire cases the fires were started inside the house.
What is unusual about yours? It was started outside the house on the front porch there was no such
(16:34):
like forced entry or anything like that. It was something that was like premeditated and done
quickly to try and get rid of the house as quickly as possible. And they you mentioned earlier what
did they do with the gasoline? They poured it around the edges of the house. Now one thing to
note with that is that because it was porting for another doors and such it was unlikely that this
(16:57):
fire was used to scare someone away or something like that. Most likely this house fire was designed
to kill them. So as for after the investigation what kind of evidence did the police gather if you
know of any and why did the case eventually end up going cold? So as far as we know again this is
(17:20):
mostly just based off the article since we were unable to contact the police. The majority of the
evidence I was found was the glass remains from the Molotov's throne at the front porch. Outside
of that we don't know much about any other outside evidence. Most of the since arson is such like a
violent crime and there's not much like evidence that could be left behind to like narrow down some
(17:45):
sort of suspect or suspects besides like the fashion in which the fire was lit. This fire was
stated by Lucas Henderson to be ignited in such a way as like a dope house in Detroit would be
ignited. So like that could be some sort of evidence to try and like narrow down potential suspects
and it was also stated that investigators told him that multiple people were most likely involved
(18:07):
one or two or three people were likely involved in the setting of this fire. So this was like a
very premeditated attack that most of the evidence here is like like how the fire was set. There's
no like physical evidence to try and like narrow down some sort of like suspect. However every
other piece of evidence to try and like find out the person who did this was mostly like statements
(18:31):
and interviews which nothing really came out of those things. Well unfortunately fire does destroy
a lot of that evidence. At this point what do you think it's going to take to turn this case around
or to get them to reopen it? I think at this point it might it mostly would have to take somebody
(18:51):
who may know what somebody or somebody who may have been involved in the case that had like a
change of heart or something like that who may like know information about what happened that
night. Now since the house is now a community garden there's not any like there's no crime
seen to look off of no evidence to look at now. The police still have the documents of everything
(19:13):
that happened that night and we haven't gotten in contact with them but it would pretty much take
like an anonymous tip or something like that to try and figure out what may have happened that night.
And if anyone does have that information who should they contact where should they go?
So for those with information regarding the case they can call the Columbus Division of
(19:33):
Police Headquarters that would be at 614-645-4760. With anyone information regarding the case they
can also deliver anonymous tips at the crime stoppers at 614-645-4749. And then I just have two more
questions for you guys. Is there anything else that you want to mention about the case that we
(19:55):
haven't already previously talked about and then what lessons are you going to take from your experience
investigating this crime? What are your lessons you're going to take and how are you going to
carry those after you graduate? So at first we just want to highlight that this case was unusual
because Deanna Charles and Brianna were all loving members of the community obviously. Deanna had been
(20:18):
stated by multiple people. Everyone that we talked to her was only only painting her in a positive
light saying nice things about her saying that she loved everybody and everybody loved her.
Everyone called her mama stuff like that around the neighborhood. So it was very unusual that
someone with such a caring heart would be killed in such a fashion as this.
(20:39):
So just tell us a little bit about what you learned along the way, what your expectations were
when you first got into the class, and what you're going to take with you as you leave.
I think one of the biggest things here was communication because in and of itself and no
matter what field whatever you do communication is always important and I feel that this class kind
(21:04):
of takes the idea of communication and kind of really puts it on puts it on pressure. I remember
when we were first managed to get in contact with one of the family members, luckily it was a voice
call so they couldn't see but my hands were trembling because there's a difference a true
difference between maybe talking to someone at work or talking to one of your friends. There's a
(21:27):
true difference between that and having to confront someone who's been through something
so terrible like losing a family member. It takes a lot of maturity and it takes a lot of empathy to
be able to talk to someone in that manner especially in a more professional setting. So I think over
the time of this whole class as myself and Ryan have been talking with the families we've been
(21:50):
able to better build our capabilities of talking with others especially in those settings where
we want to be empathetic towards what these people have been through. I think most people who have
not taken this class were in forensics right now who plan on taking this class their junior
and senior year think that this class is like some cool opportunity to like investigate like a cool
(22:12):
case that actually happened. Well it is a cool program but eventually you've got to learn that
these are real people these are real lives and you're talking to real people who have lost something
so you have to keep that in mind that most this class is not it's not about you it's about the case
and you're representing the family members and the victims of this case. I was really good.
(22:36):
This will say wow you'd like hit exactly what this class was supposed to be on the head you know
and I'm glad you learned those lessons. How did you guys become emotionally attached to this case?
Well obviously as as part of a school process this this class is great to it but that grade
does eventually it kind of weaned off. I stopped you know pulling up my computer and checking every
(23:00):
week and at a certain point the goal of this was not to get a good grade. The goal of this was to
make the family proud. I wanted them to know that their voices were heard and I wanted them to know
that there still are people out there trying to at least get some sort of justice for these victims
so I think it's finding that drive behind especially when we met the family finding that drive
(23:26):
behind hoping that something can become of this. Hopefully that this will push forward some new
information hopefully get someone to release something to further this investigation.
Yeah initially when we picked this case it stood out to us because then you know there was three
victims involved there were a 61 year old grandmother a 20 year old grandson and an unrelated
(23:52):
well a family friend I suppose seven month old baby and obviously learning that there was a
seven month old baby who was a victim of this heinous act caused us to you know be attached at
first. Now as we learn more about who Deanna and Charles were as people they were very kind and
(24:12):
they didn't deserve something like this to happen to them so we got attached to them
after we like had our conversations with Rebecca and Lucas Henderson and just learning more about
who they were as people and you know how admirable their behaviors were. And I'm sure the family is
extremely appreciative of not only the presentation you guys have done but your continued follow-up and
(24:36):
looking into of this case because sometimes these cases just get forgotten in the bottom of police
basements so the fact that it's super important that you're bringing that this case back to light
putting their names back out there because all it takes is one person to say something that could
potentially leave to a closed case. And one of the things I wish I could have done during Yuri
(24:59):
guys' work was to videotape and and record all the things that you did because you guys were
one of those groups that I saw daily trying to find something else you know you didn't just settle
on the fact that those articles were only things out there and I appreciate that and I appreciate
the fact that you put that much effort into it and I think that Deanna Perry's family really
(25:24):
appreciated it as well and I want to just say thank you for that. We appreciate all that you've
done for the case and we hope that someday Deanna Perry, Charles Clymer and Frank Smith
will get justice and the family will move on somewhat knowing that the person that did it is caught.
(25:49):
Thank you for listening to this episode of Cold Case MHS. This podcast was edited by the
students of Cold Case MHS and produced by Mr. Hubbard and myself. The music was performed and
written by Alexa Dahl and the artwork was created by the students of MHS Design Studio internship.
Please consider sharing this podcast to bring more light to these victims.
Tune in next time to Cold Case MHS Monsters and Demons.
(26:37):
We'll find that spark there you've left their mark.
Big doubts in memory, let's find the enemy. We won't leave it behind, behind every shadow.
Story to be told.
Who lies I was special but some hearts have grown cold.
(27:07):
And the jumps of the darkness of the good old remains behind every cold case.
There's people fighting day to day.
Welcome to Cold Case MHS, Monsters and Demons. We're Real Education, Metro Life. I'm your
(00:07):
co-host, Lydia Lisco, and we thank you for listening.
(00:37):
Make downs in memory, let's find the enemy. We won't leave it behind, behind every shadow.
A story to be told. Whom lies I was special, but some hearts have grown cold.
(01:02):
And the jumps of the darkness, stuff the girl remains behind every cold case.
There's people fighting day to day.
So welcome back, and this year's kind of unusual in the fact that
(01:23):
we had three groups pick fire cases. Now what's unusual about fire cases is that most people
don't really know much about them because when you think of cold cases, you think of shootings,
stabbings, strangulation, things like that. Not many people really think too much about fire
being used as a weapon. And for this year, it was really strange that we had three groups really
(01:44):
pick that up. And I'm going to let these students introduce themselves and talk a little bit about
their case. Hi, I'm Emilio. And I'm Ryan. So right off the bat, this unfortunately, this arson,
had three different victims. A woman by the name of Deanna Perry, her grandson, Charles Clymer Jr.,
(02:05):
and a child which was at the time living on the streets, but they brought her and her mother in.
This was Breonna Smith and her mother, Kristen Smith, however. Breonna Smith was the one who
had died in the fire. So start off by giving us just a little overview of the case. What happened
(02:25):
the night of the fire? Yeah, so on October 15, 2010, at around 5 a.m., Deanna Perry, Charles
Clymer, and Breonna Smith were all sleeping in the home when a fire erupted at their house.
It started on the front porch. It was clear to police as soon as they arrived that it was arson.
The fire started so quickly that when the firefighters got there, it was already too late.
(02:49):
They died of all died of smoking inhalation. However, Charles was found outside the home.
It was stated that he had tried to attempt to save Deanna and Breonna before he inevitably had to
jump out the window. So one thing that we noticed as Ryan had mentioned, how it was clear to the
police investigators that this was in fact an arson was that they noted that gasoline had been
(03:11):
poured around the entire proximity of the house and there had been Molotov cocktails that were
thrown upon the front porch. So this seems like a very obvious premeditated crime. Has
Breonna, did she have anything going on around her? Did Deanna anything or Charles Clymer,
was anyone want to take this sort of harsh action against any of them? So Deanna was known as someone
(03:37):
who would take people in who needed like a place to stay or meal. Any like support such as Kristen
Smith and Breonna Smith who needed some type of support to stay off the streets. It was suspected
by the family members and the police at the time that Breonna Smith had been the main target to
try to get back at Kristen Smith. We're not too sure as to like the exact motive of why someone
(04:03):
would try to get back at Kristen Smith by killing Breonna, but that is the main theory that we
were given by family members and what they had said that the police also thought. Well it has not
yet been proven there was some suspicion around the boyfriend of Kristen Smith, the mother of
Breonna Smith. At the time there were some internal tensions in the house so Kristen Smith decided to
(04:27):
leave the home and Breonna ended up staying so that she could stay off the streets. However,
Kristen's boyfriend, it was, although it has not yet been proven, it was suspected that Kristen's
boyfriend had gotten himself and a few other people to help them set the fire as a way to get back at Kristen.
(04:51):
Well the unusual thing about that though is that you said the boyfriend was with Kristen at the time
that the fire started. What are your thoughts on why he would be with her if he's trying to get
rid of her? So Kristen Smith was a drug addict that was stated by Rebecca Clymer and other people
(05:14):
who wrote the articles, the reporters who wrote the articles. Everything, all the information we
found about Kristen Smith led us to believe that she was a drug addict. So if she was a drug addict
she may have been, you know, she didn't feel like she was in control of her own life and she like
felt that she had to stay with somebody like her boyfriend at the time even though they might not
have had the best relationship. If it was like some sort of abusive relationship she might have been
(05:39):
not in control of her own life so she would have to stay with him. Kristen Smith had stayed at the
home previously with Deanna but because as we mentioned there's internal tension she ended up
leaving. One thing that they noted was that Kristen Smith the night of the fire she had
stayed over at her boyfriend's house which according to many other people was pretty unusual of her
(06:05):
especially because the tension between the relationship. So often in cold cases we talk
about victimology which is the circumstances surrounding the victims. We talk about high
risk versus low risk. So high risk victims are usually people who put themselves into more
dangerous situations such as drug addicts, prostitutes, things like that. Do you think Deanna
made herself more of a risk as a victim because she was so welcoming to all and letting people
(06:31):
like Kristen Smith into her life? So yeah that's interesting because that's one of the things that
we noted in our presentation that if Deanna was bringing in like high-risk people such as Kristen
Smith then she may have brought in somebody else who could have also potentially been some sort of
target that may have also been staying at her home. That was not mentioned by articles or family
(06:52):
members or anyone like that because of the relevancy of Kristen Smith and Breonna Smith and
like when they were staying at the home. It may not have been like as suspicion of other people
like staying in her home beforehand who also may have been high-risk lifestyles that also could
have been targeted. So it is interesting Deanna herself was not a high like a high-risk lifestyle
(07:14):
person but she may have also brought in other people who have high-risk lifestyles. Do you know
if there were any previous incidents in the house regarding like break-ins any of that kind of stuff
potentially with other people that she brought in or was this just like a one-off situation?
We don't know of many other people that Deanna brought in. It was a wide range so as with Kristen
(07:37):
and Breonna she'd bring in people from the streets but she would also oftentimes let family in. It was
a very open door scenario. She was very open to anyone who needed a roof over their head.
However based on all of the articles that we had managed to find and discussions with the family
it seemed that the there weren't many other people that were discussed.
(08:02):
Deanna didn't get rid of her but there were some tensions between her and Kristen correct.
Do we have any idea what those frictions were? What was the argument? Did she just throw her out?
Did Kristen leave on her own? Do we know? We don't know exactly for sure the circumstances
behind the tensions. It was mentioned in a couple articles that they had internal tensions and
(08:27):
some of her phone calls that they had internal tensions but they never specifically stated
exactly what kind of tensions. So we are not exactly too sure about what exactly
strained their relationship but we know that Kristen probably left on her own accord.
So you guys mentioned a lot about the articles. Let's talk a bit about your information finding
(08:47):
process. Was it easy for you? Were you able to get in contact with a lot of people? So tell me
a little bit about that. So especially with this case it was particularly difficult to find a lot
of information regarding this crime because at the beginning we initially thought that we had
found many many articles. We had somewhere around 10 or 12 just off the first few weeks.
(09:09):
However one thing that we noticed was that these articles seemed to have been recycled
from each other. There was an initial journalist we found Theodore Decker who had first written
the article and he was the most useful to us. We managed to get in communications with him.
However many of the other articles were written a few months a year several years after the
(09:32):
original article and they seem to be some either crime stopper organizations or just people trying
to get the story back out by taking and recycling the previous articles to make sure that information
stays afloat. What about from the police? Did you guys get anything or even from like the fire
department that may have been involved? Anything like that? We didn't like get into contact specifically
(09:56):
with any like fire departments or anything even though we did try to email the fire marshal and
our retired fire chief that may have also worked on the case and other detectives that may have
worked on the case. However we did get a FOIA request with the autopsy report that gave us
information about their carboxychemoglobin levels which confirmed that Charles had been found outside
with much much lower carboxychemoglobin levels than Deanna and Brianna but we did not get into
(10:21):
like any specific contact with like fire stations, fire marshals, retired fire chiefs or any like
detectives or anything. We were still in the process of trying to do that they have not gotten back
to us but we did get a FOIA request. Would you mind explaining what a FOIA request is? Yeah so it's a
freedom of information act that you can submit a request to get any sort of documents on any open
(10:44):
case such as autopsy reports and stuff like that. So we got all three from Franklin County
Coroner's office yeah so we got all their autopsy reports which just confirmed that they all died
of smoke inhalation. Now I think one thing to mention is that after we had gotten that influx of
information from the articles and we submitted those FOIA requests as Ryan had mentioned after
(11:07):
we started trying to talk to maybe some police departments we contact the arson department
unfortunately we weren't able to get a lot of information in there and for a few months at least
we kind of had an information drought where we kind of had to work with only a few articles that had
the original information so it became relatively difficult to try to find and pull out new information
(11:32):
we were really only able to get out of that info drought after we were looking back through the
articles that we already had and we found one that we originally set off as plagiarism we noted
that it was the exact same as one of the very first articles that we found it was a Facebook post
but when we looked into the comment section of that Facebook post that's when we finally managed
(11:56):
to find the family and we were able to get more information from them. So what kind of information
did you get from the family? So when we decided to talk to the family we wanted to focus more about
their account on who they were as people and try to like find out what like what kind of people
were victim worse so we could narrow down like what kind of people would do this to someone like them
(12:20):
so we focused on trying to get like more information and family accounts from like
what they think may have happened um what they thought of like maybe who may have done it maybe
some sort of type some type of like just more information on the family like on the victims in
general. When you did the dive into the family and talk to them that's a great source of information
(12:47):
about who they were but what is the problem with only getting information from the family?
If we only got information from the family there's obviously bias account up to it the information
that we got from them was very very valuable most of the facts about the case that they gave to us
checked out with the articles so we're just we we wanted to learn more about the family so like
(13:08):
their account obviously of Deanna and Charles and Brianna are probably the most valuable because
they're the ones who spent the most time with them but when it comes to like who may have done it
and something like that if there's obviously just a tad bit of bias there right and unfortunately
when we contact the family there's still a few things that we would be unable to clear up for
(13:30):
example one of the articles had mentioned how the police department released a statement saying how
they had decided to steer away from investigating the boyfriend who we were mentioning earlier
who seemed very suspicious and since we were unable to contact any of the departments we weren't
(13:51):
able to really find out why whether there was something that you know he had his own alibi
or whether or not they were looking into another person who seemed suspicious who we were just
unaware of so there was still that information kind of unable to be found. So would you be able to give
us like an idea of what happened the day before if there's any tensions maybe like the week before
(14:15):
the fire happened and then what happened after the fire how did the investigation proceed?
So in our phone call with Lucas Henderson he had stated that this is complete hearsay however he
did say that his nephew had heard Kristen Smith's boyfriend threaten Kristen Smith a couple days or
the day of the fire saying watch where you and that baby lay its head tonight obviously this
(14:39):
statement isn't you know backed by concrete evidence it is just a statement that we had in a phone
call however if this is true then it would it is like a very big part of like the type of tensions
that could have been there. As for the fire the day of the fire itself it was a little hard to get
that information because it was done as we mentioned earlier like 5 a.m. it was extremely dark not a
(15:04):
lot of people were even awake at the time to witness or see anyone do it so as far as we know at
around 4 30 a.m. that was when Ray Perry the husband of Diana and Charles Howard the father of Charles
Connor Jr. had both left for work and then between then and 5 a.m. was obviously when the fire
(15:27):
occurred at 5 a.m. somewhere between then people had to have come in and poured the gasoline and
set it alight so there's kind of that empty 30 minute space where someone may have come in to
burn down the house. Do we happen to know if the neighbors were ever interviewed or looked into as
(15:47):
a background to possibly see if maybe that house was not the one that was supposed to be burned?
We didn't get much information regarding about how maybe it was the wrong house but we do know
from an account of the neighbors that they themselves had been they were asleep at the time of the fire
and had only been woken up because the flames of the house were so great that they started
(16:11):
actually burning away at the sides of the neighboring houses next to it. So at the time they were
asleep as well. So right now it does appear that their house was the target for some reason.
As far as we know. So in our other two fire cases the fires were started inside the house.
What is unusual about yours? It was started outside the house on the front porch there was no such
(16:34):
like forced entry or anything like that. It was something that was like premeditated and done
quickly to try and get rid of the house as quickly as possible. And they you mentioned earlier what
did they do with the gasoline? They poured it around the edges of the house. Now one thing to
note with that is that because it was porting for another doors and such it was unlikely that this
(16:57):
fire was used to scare someone away or something like that. Most likely this house fire was designed
to kill them. So as for after the investigation what kind of evidence did the police gather if you
know of any and why did the case eventually end up going cold? So as far as we know again this is
(17:20):
mostly just based off the article since we were unable to contact the police. The majority of the
evidence I was found was the glass remains from the Molotov's throne at the front porch. Outside
of that we don't know much about any other outside evidence. Most of the since arson is such like a
violent crime and there's not much like evidence that could be left behind to like narrow down some
(17:45):
sort of suspect or suspects besides like the fashion in which the fire was lit. This fire was
stated by Lucas Henderson to be ignited in such a way as like a dope house in Detroit would be
ignited. So like that could be some sort of evidence to try and like narrow down potential suspects
and it was also stated that investigators told him that multiple people were most likely involved
(18:07):
one or two or three people were likely involved in the setting of this fire. So this was like a
very premeditated attack that most of the evidence here is like like how the fire was set. There's
no like physical evidence to try and like narrow down some sort of like suspect. However every
other piece of evidence to try and like find out the person who did this was mostly like statements
(18:31):
and interviews which nothing really came out of those things. Well unfortunately fire does destroy
a lot of that evidence. At this point what do you think it's going to take to turn this case around
or to get them to reopen it? I think at this point it might it mostly would have to take somebody
(18:51):
who may know what somebody or somebody who may have been involved in the case that had like a
change of heart or something like that who may like know information about what happened that
night. Now since the house is now a community garden there's not any like there's no crime
seen to look off of no evidence to look at now. The police still have the documents of everything
(19:13):
that happened that night and we haven't gotten in contact with them but it would pretty much take
like an anonymous tip or something like that to try and figure out what may have happened that night.
And if anyone does have that information who should they contact where should they go?
So for those with information regarding the case they can call the Columbus Division of
(19:33):
Police Headquarters that would be at 614-645-4760. With anyone information regarding the case they
can also deliver anonymous tips at the crime stoppers at 614-645-4749. And then I just have two more
questions for you guys. Is there anything else that you want to mention about the case that we
(19:55):
haven't already previously talked about and then what lessons are you going to take from your experience
investigating this crime? What are your lessons you're going to take and how are you going to
carry those after you graduate? So at first we just want to highlight that this case was unusual
because Deanna Charles and Brianna were all loving members of the community obviously. Deanna had been
(20:18):
stated by multiple people. Everyone that we talked to her was only only painting her in a positive
light saying nice things about her saying that she loved everybody and everybody loved her.
Everyone called her mama stuff like that around the neighborhood. So it was very unusual that
someone with such a caring heart would be killed in such a fashion as this.
(20:39):
So just tell us a little bit about what you learned along the way, what your expectations were
when you first got into the class, and what you're going to take with you as you leave.
I think one of the biggest things here was communication because in and of itself and no
matter what field whatever you do communication is always important and I feel that this class kind
(21:04):
of takes the idea of communication and kind of really puts it on puts it on pressure. I remember
when we were first managed to get in contact with one of the family members, luckily it was a voice
call so they couldn't see but my hands were trembling because there's a difference a true
difference between maybe talking to someone at work or talking to one of your friends. There's a
(21:27):
true difference between that and having to confront someone who's been through something
so terrible like losing a family member. It takes a lot of maturity and it takes a lot of empathy to
be able to talk to someone in that manner especially in a more professional setting. So I think over
the time of this whole class as myself and Ryan have been talking with the families we've been
(21:50):
able to better build our capabilities of talking with others especially in those settings where
we want to be empathetic towards what these people have been through. I think most people who have
not taken this class were in forensics right now who plan on taking this class their junior
and senior year think that this class is like some cool opportunity to like investigate like a cool
(22:12):
case that actually happened. Well it is a cool program but eventually you've got to learn that
these are real people these are real lives and you're talking to real people who have lost something
so you have to keep that in mind that most this class is not it's not about you it's about the case
and you're representing the family members and the victims of this case. I was really good.
(22:36):
This will say wow you'd like hit exactly what this class was supposed to be on the head you know
and I'm glad you learned those lessons. How did you guys become emotionally attached to this case?
Well obviously as as part of a school process this this class is great to it but that grade
does eventually it kind of weaned off. I stopped you know pulling up my computer and checking every
(23:00):
week and at a certain point the goal of this was not to get a good grade. The goal of this was to
make the family proud. I wanted them to know that their voices were heard and I wanted them to know
that there still are people out there trying to at least get some sort of justice for these victims
so I think it's finding that drive behind especially when we met the family finding that drive
(23:26):
behind hoping that something can become of this. Hopefully that this will push forward some new
information hopefully get someone to release something to further this investigation.
Yeah initially when we picked this case it stood out to us because then you know there was three
victims involved there were a 61 year old grandmother a 20 year old grandson and an unrelated
(23:52):
well a family friend I suppose seven month old baby and obviously learning that there was a
seven month old baby who was a victim of this heinous act caused us to you know be attached at
first. Now as we learn more about who Deanna and Charles were as people they were very kind and
(24:12):
they didn't deserve something like this to happen to them so we got attached to them
after we like had our conversations with Rebecca and Lucas Henderson and just learning more about
who they were as people and you know how admirable their behaviors were. And I'm sure the family is
extremely appreciative of not only the presentation you guys have done but your continued follow-up and
(24:36):
looking into of this case because sometimes these cases just get forgotten in the bottom of police
basements so the fact that it's super important that you're bringing that this case back to light
putting their names back out there because all it takes is one person to say something that could
potentially leave to a closed case. And one of the things I wish I could have done during Yuri
(24:59):
guys' work was to videotape and and record all the things that you did because you guys were
one of those groups that I saw daily trying to find something else you know you didn't just settle
on the fact that those articles were only things out there and I appreciate that and I appreciate
the fact that you put that much effort into it and I think that Deanna Perry's family really
(25:24):
appreciated it as well and I want to just say thank you for that. We appreciate all that you've
done for the case and we hope that someday Deanna Perry, Charles Clymer and Frank Smith
will get justice and the family will move on somewhat knowing that the person that did it is caught.
(25:49):
Thank you for listening to this episode of Cold Case MHS. This podcast was edited by the
students of Cold Case MHS and produced by Mr. Hubbard and myself. The music was performed and
written by Alexa Dahl and the artwork was created by the students of MHS Design Studio internship.
Please consider sharing this podcast to bring more light to these victims.
Tune in next time to Cold Case MHS Monsters and Demons.
(26:37):
We'll find that spark there you've left their mark.
Big doubts in memory, let's find the enemy. We won't leave it behind, behind every shadow.
Story to be told.
Who lies I was special but some hearts have grown cold.
(27:07):
And the jumps of the darkness of the good old remains behind every cold case.
There's people fighting day to day.
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