How Do You Become You: A Conversation with O'Brien McMahon

Episode Transcript
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Anna Stumpf (00:07):
Welcome to collective energy conversations,
your inspiration for personaland professional growth in mid
career. I'm Dr. Anna stump YourGuide to inspiring stories from
a variety of professionals. Acollective energy we believe in
the transformative power ofconnections and shared
experiences. Each week we delveinto narratives that spark
confidence and self awareness.
Join us as we elevate our growththrough the power of shared

(00:30):
stories.
Welcome to this inauguralpodcast episode under the new
title, new brand collectiveenergy conversations. And did I
pick an amazing first guest forthis new platform? O'Brien

(00:51):
McMahon is somebody I wasintroduced to back in the
pandemic, I guess, middle of2020. And he was just starting
his podcast and was just stilldoes make amazing content on
LinkedIn always gives yousomething to think about brings
a lot of new perspectives intofruition through his content and
podcasts. And then the end oflast year wrote a children's

(01:14):
book. So I'm just so intriguedby how does he do it all. One
thing I'm going to do on thisnew platform is make sure we
start each episode with a quote,to kind of get us in the mindset
of what our guest is going totalk about. So today's quote,
I'm gonna win all the way backto Ralph Waldo Emerson, to be
yourself in a world that isconstantly trying to make you

(01:34):
something else is the greatestaccomplishment. So let's hear
from O'Brien McMahon on how hedoes that, and I'm excited to
have you on, I have followed youfor the last couple of years.
And feel like I know you becausethat's the oddity of having a
podcast yourself. And being justas probably as voracious about

(01:57):
sharing on LinkedIn as I am, isthat I get these glimpses into
some of your vulnerabilities andsome of what you have going on
in your thought process. So it'sexciting for me to be able to
talk to you for multitudes ofreasons. But I, welcome to the
podcast, and I'm gonna flip thescript on you just a little bit.

(02:18):
Your children's book came out inDecember, yes, December 2023. I
had a little birthday buddy bornon my birthday in 2023. And was
excited the minute I saw you putthat on LinkedIn, I went and
bought him a copy of it, but thetitle is, how you become you. So

(02:38):
I want to ask you sitting herenow, how did you become you
like, I want to hear your story.
I want to hear your journey andhow you got where you are. Yeah,
well, thank you. Thank you forthat. And it is funny to be that
exposed. And that out there. AndI've actually since starting the
podcast almost four years agonow. I've had two interactions
with people for the first timewhere they followed up with me

(03:02):
and apologized afterwards,because they realized after the
fact that we hadn't met eachother, but they had been
treating it like they knew me,which for me, is great. Because
I like deep conversations. I cango there right away with almost
anyone so but most people can'tdo that. But so if they're, if
they're more comfortable withme, they feel like they've known

(03:25):
me longer than we can go thereright away. So I said no, I
thought those are some of thebest introductory conversations
I've ever had. But they were alittle embarrassed after the

O'Brien McMahon (03:36):
as far as how I became me, I mean, I think to
some degree, we all are who weare the whole time. It's just a
matter of uncovering what thatis. And that's really the
message in the children's bookthat I wrote there's sort of
four steps to the lyrical poemthat's in the book which you
know, the first one is, try asmuch as you can and then try try

(03:56):
some more. The more we see theworld the more we explore the
world the the better lens wehave for who we are and how we
feel and how we react. And thennext step is figure out what do
you love to do? What about that?
Do you love What do you enjoy?
What lights you up gives youenergy? What brings you that
spark? The third one is What doyou believe? So defining Okay,

(04:20):
now I've seen the world I'veseen how people live over here
I've seen how they live overhere I've seen what this looks
like on this far corner of theplanet and on this local
community and what do I believeabout this? Do I believe the
things that the people around mebelieve or do I believe
something different and reallyfiguring out what it is that you
believe on about the world andthen use that and go out and do

(04:42):
more and just do more of thethings that light you up? Have
more of your actions alignedwith your beliefs and just
constantly be cycling throughthat so yeah, the cycle to go
back to number one, right? Likeyeah, keep pushing. Go try
again. You know, hey, now whatdo you think you know, do you
push yourself further Do youstill
like this, what about it to youlike what else have you learned?
What do you believe now, andthat is kind of been my MO I

(05:07):
just always liked to explore andI'd like to do things I was a
jock I got into choir, I was inmusical theater for a little bit
in like eighth the ninth grade.
I like writing I like I taughtCrossFit, I have been scuba
diving and skydiving and I justI like to do a lot of things.

(05:30):
I like to just sample a lot ofdifferent different things,
different experiences, differentways of life. And once I got to
college, that sort of reallyramped up and I was able to get
out of the community that I hadgrown up in, which was a great
community. But just, that wasthe only thing I'd ever known.
And it was somewhat insular. Andso to be able to go to college,

(05:51):
spread my wings, try new things.
And then when I moved toChicago, which is not where I'm
from, but where I've lived thelast 18 or 19 years,
that just like it was likeinjecting steroids into it. I
have done just tried toexperience a lot over that
period of time. And then I'veactually been working with a
coach for the last few years,which is where that actual
framework came from. And there'smore to that framework, but and

(06:15):
actually put pen to paper andreally defined you know, who am
I? What are the names, I callmyself? What are my principles?
What are my beliefs, what are mypassions, that kind of thing.

So I take a look at the quality of the podcasts that
you put out, and it feels likeyour full time job, like the
prep that you do the variety ofspeakers that you have. I mean,
like we're talking like hostagenegotiators to like HR and CEOs,
it's there's something in everypodcast for everybody. And I

(06:46):
think, well, he can't possiblybe doing more. And then you're
like, you've got a young familythat's growing, and you've got
an amazing career. So is it thatthat those four steps and the
adult version and having thecoach and like doing the things
that really just bring youenergy? Is that where you get
the time and space for all ofus? Like how? Or maybe it's what

(07:08):
you kind of described as whenyou were young? That's just the
pace and the way that you sampleand go through life? Yes, so a
couple of different ways toanswer that question. I think
one, I just enjoy it. And solike I enjoy deep conversations,
as I said at the beginning ofthis, and I've worked with a
sales coach through my work atLockton for the last 14 years, I

(07:30):
think, and when I told her Iwanted to do a podcast, she her
response was, I'm mad at myselffor not suggesting this sooner.
So I actually had a productiondegree from college, I did film
production and audio production.
I've built a very eclecticnetwork, because I'm interested
in all these different walks oflife. And then I also love
having deep conversations withpeople. And so it just it

(07:53):
aligned really well. So I enjoyit. I love listening to
podcasts, I love the opportunityto bring on somebody with a
different perspective, and justreally unpack that perspective.

I like to write so writing the children's book
was a lot of fun finding anillustrator and like learning
about that process of how tobring a book to the world.
That's really fun. I like sales.
And I like thinking aboutstorytelling and how we
communicate how we convincesomebody that we're the right
option to solve their problem.
And so that's what I do my dayto day work. I love being a
father, you know, I love being ahusband. And so put a lot of

(08:27):
time and thought into that.
The the flip side to that isthat you can overdo it. And
while I often get people whocome to me and they're like, oh
my god, you do it all this is sogreat. And you know, much like
you did, like there's there's alevel of admiration in that, and
I appreciate it. I totallyrespect that.

(08:49):
But I would caution people withthat too, because there is this
element of like hustle culturethat's out there, like you
always have to do more. And I'mguilty of feeling that I mean, I
feel like, if I don't do all thethings I want to do, you know,
maybe my life's not gonna beworth it or like something not
maybe not that extreme. Butlike, there's this pressure that
we always have to be maximizingevery minute of every day. And I

(09:12):
do succumb to that. And I thinkthat's what drives a lot of the
great things I've done, but Ihave to catch myself and temper
that and remind myself to slowdown and enjoy the time with my
wife and enjoy the time with mykids and really be present with
my friends and and schedule timewith friends. Right? And so
there are both sides of thatcoin and I don't want to

(09:34):
contribute to people who arelistening to this feeling like
oh my god, I should be doingmore. Look at what this person
is doing as you're doing morelike no, I'm actually in a point
of my life right now. Well, I'mjust in a point with the
projects I've committed to whereI'm like, Alright, I get to get
through these next five monthsand then I need to slow down and
I am I keep telling my wife likeyou need to hold me accountable

(09:54):
to not take anyone on any moreprojects for two months after my
lastbig project, which is going to
launch this summergoes live. And she's like, Yeah,
no, trust me, I'm gonna hold youto that one. So there's both
sides to this, right? It's, it'simportant to enjoy your life.
And, and remember that we onlyget to experience these things
once and it is about therelationships and the memories

(10:16):
we make. And then also go outand do things you want to do.
And you got to, you have to beable to balance both of those at
the same time. And it's yeah,it's hard and you get the teeter
totter will get a little offbalance every once in a while.
But I think it's important toremember both of those. Well, I
think the one thing if I canmake an observation of what you
do well, and hearing that youhad a multitude of interests in

(10:36):
activities, when you were likein your formative years, this
doesn't surprise me. But thething that I appreciate about
what you do, is you layer a lot.
You layer guests after guests,and you draw through common
themes you bring, I'm sure a lotof you talked about bringing
your coaching into writing yourchildren's book, and you talk

(10:57):
about how that's helped you inyour career. And I would
imagine, you're a better friend,and father and husband, and
salesperson because of all theseconversations and like you layer
well, like, it's not like you'reout, trying to, you know, roll
sushi one day and then go to adifferent direction the next
day, like you're bringing a lotof this together and really, in

(11:18):
a way that it's observable. Ithink that's what's so healthy
about it. Like that's one thing,you know, like listening to you
on the podcast, talk aboutthings that you're working on
yourself, or that you've noticedor your relationship like
journaling, and just beingreally cognizant of like, Oh,
I'm having some similarexperience. Let me draw that in.

(11:38):
That layering matters. So muchlike there, it's where the
growth really truly happens. Andwhere you can find all those
different applications? Well,it's where it can get really
fun, too. I thinkthat it comes from I think,
oh, what's an IP start with whySimon Sinek

(11:58):
in the book starts with startwith why he talks about how you
find your why. And I think a lotof people just sit down with a
blank page, and they go like,Okay, what, what matters to me.
And I've tried to do that beforetoo. And it's just never quite
right. Like, you just don't everget the full gist of it. But I
like what he suggests in there,which is if you look backwards,

(12:19):
and you look at the things thatyou've done, and you look at
what you love about thedifferent things that you've
done, you can find the themes inthere. So it's not like I came
out of high school and was like,Alright, I'm gonna layer all
this stuff. And I had this wholeplan. Now I wanted to go in
advertising, I didn't want toget an insurance, which is what
I've been doing for almost mywhole career. Now.

(12:40):
I had very different plans forwhat my life was gonna be like
than what it is now.
But I just did a bunch of stuffI ran, you know, I was working
out and doing normal kind oflifting stuff. Then I started
doing these urban athalon, whichare like these kind of weird
urban triathlons, I did sometriathlons, I

(13:01):
do ran barefoot for a couple ofmonths to try that I and then I
got into CrossFit. And thatwound up being a really fun
thing. And I was able to coachCrossFit and help people get
better. And what I realized was,I like being capable, I like
having capable level of fitnessso that I can do anything. And I
also love sharing that back withpeople and empowering them to do

(13:23):
more than they thought they wereable to do. Now those two
principles, right, beingcapable, and helping other
people become capable. That's abasic principle that I can
translate to anything, right. SoI can take my sales job, and I
can build my skill set. So I canbe able to handle anything that
a prospect or client throws atme. And then I can mentor the

(13:44):
people who are coming behind meand help them achieve levels of
success that they wouldn't getto or wouldn't get to as quickly
on their own. And that lights meup. So I can then take those
principles, and I can apply itin a lot of different areas. And
the more you sort of do thatreflection, where you look back
and think well, what about that?
What about that? Did I reallylove, oh, I can actually go
apply that and a lot ofdifferent ways. That's that's

(14:04):
where you can then start tolayer that stuff. So you do
still have to go out and justtry a bunch of stuff. And some
you're gonna love and someyou're not I do a bunch of
things that I only ever do onceand they fall off. And
I have fun stories, but they'renot like an integral part of who
I am. But then you can then youcan sort of sift through the
sand and figure out like, whatare the basic building blocks

(14:26):
here that we're working with,and then you can apply those on
a go forward basis. I thinkhaving the ability to approach
something as being capable, isreally what our education I mean
core, I have an educators lens.
I've been in that space for 18years, but there's this level of
perfectionism that comes fromhow we are pushing these K
through 12 and then college withthese linear singular pathways

(14:49):
where we're taking theexploration out of it. And I
think understanding that justbeing capable is enough.
and being capable gives youenough information and enough
experience to go on like, yeah,whether it and knowing that you
don't have to commit tosomething and just stay with it

(15:10):
is a life lesson that I'm notsure our younger people are
getting. So it makes me excitedto know their leaders like you
out there that are waiting forthem when they hit, hit the
workforce, because it's going tobe a little bit of a shock for
them. But it's funny, youmentioned Simon Sinek. One thing
he does on his podcast that Ijust appreciate so much is he
does that little bit ofoptimism, he asks every guest,

(15:31):
like, share with me one of yourbest childhood memories. And
then he asked them somethingelse that they were really proud
of recently at work. And he tiesthose two things together with
like, their journey and whatthey do for their vocation and
like how they show up in theworld. And it really is like,
impactful to think about. Yeah,well, I to that point. I mean,

(15:54):
obviously, like writing, we'vetalked about that a few times,
I've written a couple novels formyself as well. One I self
published for family andfriends, but it's not for sale
anywhere and won't be. Hey,that's how calling Hoover got
started. I mean, you got to justyou got to just now look at her.
Yeah. But it was interesting,because I got into this, again

(16:16):
with a novel writing severalyears after college. And then I
went back and I realized, whoa,I was writing in college, too. I
wrote a bunch of screenplays incollege. And then I mentioned
that I was working on a book andone of my friends from
elementary school said, Oh,that's not surprising. You were
always like that. I was like,really? And she said, Oh, yeah,

(16:36):
I can remember you writing songlyrics and poems. And I was
like, Yeah, I did write, like, Iwrote some poems for girlfriends
in high school.
And, like, I've always beendoing that. And I actually, I
just turned 40, last month, andmy wife, who is an amazing
cheerleader, had a bunch of myfriends and family pull together

(16:57):
videos, andshare memories of us over the
years. And my dad shared one.
And he said, you know, you'vealways been doing your own
thing. You've always explored somuch of the world. And he
mentioned a couple things I didlike in elementary school and
middle school in high school.
And it was really nice torealize, like, oh, the things
that I'm doing now I reallyhave, it really has been me.

(17:19):
I've just now in a position fromdoing all this self reflection,
that I really understand who Iam and who I've been the whole
time. It's and you've been trueto yourself. Yeah, a different
application. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
And there are ways that I've notbeen true to myself. And I've
tried to correct those over theyears, right. And I think that's
the other benefit of reflectingand journaling and really

(17:43):
rinsing who you are and who youwant to be is, you can make
course corrections. And then youcan also unearth, like the
richness of whoever you are.
Yeah. I would love to hear more.
We're flipping back and forth.
But how do you go fromgraduating college and wanting
to be an advertising which I'msure at the time was like the
multimedia and like, you know,felt like an exciting space to

(18:05):
insurance. It's why it's notexciting and dynamic. It Well,
I, here's why we know duck forsure. The way you do it.
Fair, clearly, you're stilldoing it. So you're making it
that way. But I just would loveto hear what that would look

(18:25):
like. So when I was growing up,my dad actually still does owns
a small car dealership inConnecticut, shout out to
McMahon, Ford, number one mainstreet, Norwalk, Connecticut.
And in high school, I worked inthe shop and changed tires and
did oil changes and that kind ofthing. And then in college, he
said, Well, why don't you comein once you come inside and

(18:48):
learn how to sell. And so forfour summers, I sold cars, and
he was my boss and sales mentor.
And when I got out of college, Iwanted to do advertising because
I felt like I could really blendthe sales experience I had with
this creative experience I hadand really like understand both
and talk to both, which is whataccount management and

(19:09):
advertising is. The advertisingworld did not see that picture
the way that I saw it. And therewas I think there was a I don't
know if there's a formal hiringfreeze, but it was a very bad
time to get into advertising.
And I needed a job. And so Iwalked into the local pre owned
for our pre owned Mercedesdealer among a few others, and

(19:32):
just said, Hey, do you needanybody I've done this before
and I have a college degree andthey said, Here's your desk. And
so I started there, but I knewthat wasn't what I wanted. So I
just kept taking different salesjobs and I was actually really
turned off by b2b sales. I gotinto b2b sales in two different

(19:52):
spots after that, and I ate justreally, the culture wasn't great
internally and in the industryand I wound up
serendipitously running intosomebody from Lockton, who has
an old family friend, which isan insurance broker where I work
now. And everything they said,sounded good, but I was still
very skeptical. And but they hada training program, and they

(20:15):
were gonna give me, you know,invest a lot in me. And I said,
alright, I'll give this one moreshot. And lo and behold,
everybody in Chicago was sayingcertain things about locked in
and what the company was. Andthen I went to our headquarters
in Kansas City, and they wereall saying the same thing. And
then people would come in fromaround the country, and they
were all saying the same things.
And I was like, Okay, maybe thisreally is what this what this
company is all about. And it's,it's a three and a half billion

(20:37):
dollar, family owned business,and really has a great culture.
And that I mean, that's thereason I'm still there almost 15
years later. And, to your point,the, you got to make it dynamic,
right? It's deductibles,coinsurance it. So just to
clarify, too, we have thecommercial insurance side, I
work on the total reward side.

(20:59):
So helping companies with theirbenefits plans, with their
compensation with theirretirement plans. And the way I
think about it, just like in thepodcast that I do, it's all
about helping people improvework for people. That's what I
do with my corporate job towrite it's how do I help
companies build better rewardsprograms, so that they're cost
effective, but they're alsovaluable to their people? And

(21:21):
how's that evolving? How do weimprove their physical health?
How do we improve their mentalhealth? How do we make it easier
for them to use the system? Howdo we communicate that? How do
we sell that vision toemployees? How do we sell it to
employers first to get them tohire us? How do we win? You
know, feel that good?
That good success of winning newdeals and bringing on new
clients? And then how do weactually help them? So the

(21:42):
principles are kind of the sameand thinking creatively telling
a story and then solving somepeople problems? So that's a
very long winded answer. But no,it does, in certain ways tie
back and in some ways itdoesn't. And that's why I still
write on the side because Ienjoy doing that. And then my

(22:03):
work doesn't quite scratch thatitch all the way. So I use my
free time. And I do that.

Well, and I think that is such a powerful
statement, because we talk somuch about Find your passion and
find your passion, we'reprobably never gonna find that
at work, right? It's why theycall it work. Yeah. But if you
are in a healthy culture, with apeople and product that you
believe in, you can find thingsoutside, right, that make you

(22:28):
better at your job, help youshow up better for your clients,
and your team and everybodyelse. But get you can get those
passions and get those likecreative juices, all those other
things elsewhere, because you'renot so drained from being in a
role that doesn't empower you orenergize you at all. I think
that's so important.

No job is great all the time. Right? I mean,
like, look at being a Hollywoodactor, right? You're like, Oh,
my God, he makes they make somuch money, they get all this
fame, they get to have fun, theyget to learn all these new
skills and play pretend for reallife, and like, how great would
that be, but they're alsodealing with a bunch of agents
and predatory relationships, whowant to take advantage of their

(23:10):
fame, they're working reallylong hours to shoot a movie or a
TV show, there's a lot ofstress, you know, their sort of
view of reality can get skewed alittle bit, because it's hard to
find somebody to tell you, youknow, there's like all sorts of
things that come with that,where if you're actually having
the experience, you're like,God, I wish I didn't have to
deal with XYZ. And every job isgoing to have that. And so like

(23:33):
I heard once, I'm gonna butcherthe quote, but it's basically
don't envy what somebody has,unless you're willing to go all
in on what it took to get there.
Right? Like, right, you can envyTom Brady for winning all the
Super Bowls, he won. But unlessyou want to actually walk that
walk and live that lifestyle,commit the way that he

(23:54):
committed, like you, you can'ttake some of it, right and get
that result, you have to takeall of it. And most people
wouldn't when they look at thethings they think they aspire
to. They wouldn't want thatlife. Oh, no,

no, I'm I agree. So how's the podcast helped you and
how you've been doing it? Howlong now? Almost four years?
That's crazy. You've had I mean,a ton of guests on that are
just, I mean, they're similar,but they're very diverse, right?
There's just so much uniqueconversation that you prepare

(24:30):
for which again, if that issomething that just probably
energizes you a lot. But talkabout like, what has that given
you as an individual? And well,as

you are learning doing this podcast, the
best part about having a podcastis getting to talk to all the
people that you interview,right? It's like, you benefit
way more than the listeners do,which is a kind of a little
secret in the industry. Tellthem Yeah, I mean to bring on
people that you are interestedin. And then to get to ask them

(25:04):
whatever you want, in my casefor about an hour. I mean, where
else do you get to do that tojust call up an FBI hostage
negotiator and be like, can Iask you a bunch of questions for
an hour and just learn all I canlearn about you and willing to
hear somebody going? Yeah, I'dlove

to do that. Because here's what you and I know that
the rest of the world hasn'tfigured out yet is people love
to talk about themselves. Theylove it. And they're like, You
want me?

Yeah, I'm having a great time right now.

I have to tell you like this last season that you
just started with the philosophyguru who's like an HR, my son
has recently, I've had to justbend and twist in this little 17
year old self. He feels like heshould be studying computer
science. But he does. He likesthe concepts of it. But he knows

(25:55):
he doesn't want to work in thatspace. But he is a voracious
consumer of like all thingsphilosophy. So I was like, I'm
not sure why you don't major inthis. And he says to me, right?
This is the role reversal. Well,what kind of job can I get with
that? And I'm like, we're notgoing to focus on jobs, like you
go study, like the lightestload, right, the easy thing that
you enjoy. So your podcast withthat. Shellman came out, and I

(26:18):
sent it to him. And I said,like, listen to this, like, this
is somebody who has taken theirlove of philosophy and like, put
it to work at the best streetcred in my house right now.
Because he's like, you're gonnahave that guy on your podcast.
So I was like, yeah.

That's great. I love that. It's

so important to just listen and learn and find
these things. Like, it's justit's a gift. I agree.

Yeah. Well, and I mean, we do that to ourselves
all the time, where it's like,well, what can I do with this?
It's like, who knows? But do itanyway, like, and if you think
about philosophy, I mean, thereare all kinds of tech companies
right now battling with allkinds of philosophical problems
and ethical problems, and howare we going to develop AI and

(27:08):
self driving cars? And how arewe going to teach a self driving
car to choose to go left intothis obstacle, or right into
that, that obstacle, and, youknow, they're gonna have to hit
something? How do we help themmake those decisions, and those
are all kinds of philosophicalquagmire. So, to have that skill
set, you can really apply it ina lot of different ways. And you

(27:31):
know what, maybe you couldn't,but if you're somebody who I
believe is my belief, if you aresomebody who seeks out
knowledge, you will findapplicable knowledge. For sure,
you can apply all of it, I, my,my wife, God bless her, I love

(27:51):
my wife. She got into my car oneday, and I fired it up. And what
came on the radio was this olderBritish gentleman talking about
trees. And she just looked at meand she goes, I love you. But
there is no effing way. I'mlistening to this book. And it
was the book was The Secret Lifeof trees. And it was all about

(28:12):
how trees communicate with eachother and how forests work and
what a web they are. And it wasreally fascinating. The guy's
reading was a little was alittle dry. But the content was
fascinating. And I just, Ihaven't done anything with it.
There's like no application thatI'm ever going to get from that.
But it was really interesting.
And I really enjoyed it. Andthere's probably 80%, you know,
the 8020 rule, there's 80% ofthe content out there that I

(28:35):
consume. I'll never do anythingmore than maybe have a
interesting conversation aboutit. But the 20% Like, I've
experienced so much that thereare very few conversations now
where I can't at least offersome resource or insight or
something. Back based on thepeople, I've interviewed the

(28:56):
books, I've read the podcasts,I've listened to the jobs, I've
worked the communities I've beeninvolved with, like, it's just
you just collect all of thatstuff, and you will be able to
use it somewhere. Well, and

I had a guest on a couple episodes ago, and I was
like, What is your advice topeople? And he's like, just
start, just start. And I thinklike that, long as you've been
doing this, and the experiencesthat you've had, it makes each
episode even more enriching,right, like it makes each
episode more relatable. And I'msure your prep time, you know,

(29:30):
is less in some ways because ofyour experience and bits you're
not assuming based on yourpersonality and what I know of
you. You're not laser focused onhow many downloads you have and
are people judging you or you'renot you know, that's not the
thing that's not the metricthat's not what matters and I
think that's shows through likean every episode like the the

(29:51):
relatability and the way thatyou have these conversations is
just something that is clearthat it's important to you. And
that's why you show up

with the eye And thank you very much. I
appreciate that. I, when I dothe shows I tried, I do try to
think about how would this behelpful for people. And if I can
get one email back that's like,like, just right now, right? If
I get one person who goes, Ijust showed this to my 17 year
old son, and it changed hisperspective. Like, I cannot tell

(30:21):
you how good that makes me feelright. And like, Oh, my God, you
were the only one who listenedto that. I'd be like, that was a
when I was eight. That was anabsolute home run. When and, and
that, yes, I want people tolisten to it so that more people
can have that reaction, or itcan help more people. But that's
what I want. That's what that'swhat gives me the juice.

Well, I'm gonna tell you that and the hostage
negotiator, and my son thinksI'm talking to a superhero
today. So don't think I'm notsharing that. Well, hopefully,

this won't.
won't knock me down a few pegs.
And that's what keeps

me humble, right? I live with a teenager. I'm not
ever going to be like, cool. SoI don't even have to worry about
that. I don't even try anymore.
It's all good. Well,

thanks. So humility. You've said humble a
few times. That's one of thebiggest takeaways that I've had
from the show that I've done.
From I've, so it's come up withthe gentleman, you're talking
about Gary Messner hostagenegotiator, it's come up with
Navy Seals and Green Berets.
It's come up with heads of HRCEOs, you know, taking over new

(31:22):
organizations, it's come up inso many conversations without me
bringing it up. You know, well,what leads to your success? Or
what are the traits that makeyou successful? Or why is this
group so impactful? Becausethey're humble, because they're
willing to be humble, they arewilling to listen and take
feedback and improve and getbetter not let success go to

(31:45):
their head. And, and I've reallyspent time over the last couple
of years, once this, like, clickthat, or I was like, Jesus, this
is coming up all the time, I'vespent a lot of time thinking
about humility. And I do agreewith those people. I mean,
they've demonstrated it, and Ithink it is something that we
can all work on. And that's notto say that we shouldn't be

(32:06):
confident, right, because likethe Navy Seal is a great
example, who I had on where hewas, that organization is a
confident organization, right?
They, they go out and I mean, I,I had never talked to somebody,
it was like, it was actually alittle disruptive for me, it
kind of messed me up in thebeginning of our episode, we
were able to edit it. So youcouldn't tell. But I was a
little thrown off, because I hadnever spent time with somebody

(32:29):
who just exuded without just intheir physical presence, who
exuded that much confidence, andhe was one of the most humble
guests I've had. So I do thinkthe two are compatible. Oh,

that's a brilliant example. I mean, because you
have to have the competence todo what they did, rightly, Oh,
yeah. been tested, and you knowwhat you could do? But yeah,
that doesn't mean you arebragging, or the

show without confidence that I mean, in that
in industry, call that anindustry. You know, if you're
not confident, you're hesitant,and when you're hesitant you you
die, or somebody else dies. Butlikewise, if you're not humble,
and you're not willing to getbetter than you will make a
mistake, and you or somebodyelse will die. So you have to
have both in that in order foryou to be successful.

So in the last several, a lot of your episodes,
you talk about journaling, andkind of your. And now I'm really
curious, because you've

got up you picked up on that.

Because I too, have a knack for communicating. And I
love to tell stories. But when Isit down with a blank journal,
and I cannot get into the book,there's I've watched all the
like the videos, and I'vewatched all the like, journal
people do all and I'm just like,oh, yeah, I'm curious. If, like

(33:52):
your Where did you decided toget started with it? And like,
how does it help you? And I alsothat same question about
coaching, because you are thislike, confident, capable person
who's seemingly has like, Imean, I wouldn't use that has it
all figured out thing, right?
But you you're very self aware.

(34:13):
And you've got to go in? Like,when do you decide you want
coaching? And like, how doesthat help you? So sure, it was a
park and I'm sure they'reprobably somewhat related,
right? Maybe? I

don't know.
We'll see. We'll we'll riff alittle bit on the journaling
one, I totally agree with you.
Like I I struggled to know whereto start even still, and I've
been journaling for a long time.
I'm best when I have a promptfor myself. So when I have a
question that I want to answer,and sometimes I'll just I can

(34:44):
just sit down and I can thinklike okay, what am I struggling
with? Or what do I want toimprove or, you know, what am I
really enjoying right now orsomething like that and, and
that will surface differentquestions, you know. But if I
don't have a question, I canskip that day of journaling.
It's just easy to skip it when Idon't have a prompt to sit down

(35:08):
and go. And there are books. Imean, I, somebody for my
birthday gave me a book of 3000questions you can ask yourself,
I mean, you can go out and findrate questions to ask yourself.
And so if you're, if you arestruggling, get a 365 day
calendar with questions or get,you know, get a book that's a

(35:29):
daily reflection book like dailystoic, or the coach that I work
with, through becoming built isthe company is built to lead the
book is called Becoming built tolead. There's, there's a bunch
of different ways you can go andapproach that. But I find with a
prompt, it's always easier. Asfar as why I decided I wanted

(35:51):
coaching, you know, you and Iknow enough people and I think
we know ourselves enough to knowthat no matter how confident
somebody appears, there's alwayssome stuff going on under the
surface, we all haveinsecurities, we all have blind
spots. I've hired coaches at acouple different points

(36:12):
throughout my life. One I hiredjust because I felt like I was
all over the place, I felt likeI was working on a bunch of
different things. And I was, Iwas, I was paddling really fast,
but I was paddling in alldirections, and I wasn't making
any progress. And I just neededsomebody to come and be like,
here's the swim lane, you know,paddle in that direction. And

(36:32):
they weren't going to tell mebut they were going to help me
figure out which direction Iwanted to paddle in. And so they
helped me just organize mythoughts and sort of figure out
what that direction was. I'veworked with therapists in the
past to, I think the differencebetween coaching and therapy for
me, again, I'm not a therapist,but I find therapies mostly,
like how do we resolve somethingin the past that's holding you

(36:57):
back? And then coaching is howdo we get you through the
forward looking obstaclesfaster, so that you can get
where you want to go? That'ssort of the difference to me, I
would agree. Yeah. And both haveelements where they're similar
around, you know, you got toknow who you are. And you got to
have a good good sense of selfand be be able to work through

(37:18):
issues that you have in yourhead or in congruent ease about
who you are what you want thatkind of thing. But one to me is
more like let's resolve the pastversus let's go forward in the
future.

And both of those, it's not a one size fits all,
like you have to find the personwho specializes in what you're
in in the moment, right, likeyou're trying to get through or
get past.

Yeah. And so I have the current coach I work
with the reason I chose her isthat I've been in this group
coaching this leadershipdevelopment group at work for
the last now five years. And Ihad done a lot of self
reflection as a part of that.
And I can be a veryintrospective person, as you
could probably tell. And thething that I've realized was,

(38:06):
well, well, I saw in the realworld that I was not hitting
what I thought was my potential.
Like I just in my sales, I waslike I'm I'm, if you looked at
me from the outside, you'd belike way to go. But like, I just
feel like I could do more. Ifeel like I should be doing more
based on how long I've beendoing this and what I feel my

(38:27):
capability is, but there'ssomething there's some block
there that I'm not able to breakthrough. And I've done all this
work. And I still can't figureit out. And I said, I kind of
came to the realization thatbecause I'm good at doing that
self reflection work. I'm alsogood at hiding my blind spots
for myself. Because I can sayno, no, I've done all this. I've

(38:48):
looked at it all. But I'm notactually going deep in the areas
that are most uncomfortable forme. And so I needed somebody
that I trusted who could comein, who could go like No, no,
no, don't run so fast. Come backhere, you just jumped over this
hole. Let's let's shine a lightin this hole. Let's see what's
in here. Let's fill this thingup the way we need to fill it
up. And now we're running onmore solid ground, you know, now

(39:09):
you're not going to trip. Sothat is what the work that we've
been doing for the last sixmonths. And she has been great
at doing that for me. And sheeven had to has to remind
herself because I can be reallyself reflective, we can have
these really deep conversationswe get going really fast. And
her she's told me her mantra forour coaching is slow him down.

(39:30):
So she's great. And she's beenreally helpful in that. And
that's what I needed. And otherpeople need different things.
And it's to your point, it's allabout finding somebody that you
can trust and be totally openand honest with because you have
to be willing you have to beable to be completely
transparent and open in order toactually get the most out of it.

(39:50):
And so you need somebody you cantrust that you also feel like
it's gonna be able to give youthe things that you need to get
where you want to go.

And sometimes you to your point like you don't
have to be in struggle. Allright, you don't have to be in
some urgent need to bringsomeone in. Like sometimes
that's just like, so importantto think about, like, again,
you're probably like that duckwhere the waters look calm, but
you're really just paddlingreally hard. But the meat the

(40:17):
surface of insecurities up therethat oh, yeah, because you're a
human being. So for sure, but asyou think about, you know, being
self aware enough to say to yourwife, like it, this date on the
calendar is when we are goingto, you know, I mean, that takes
a certain next level of selfawareness and accountability,

(40:38):
and those things that a lot ofpain, a lot of screw ups in the
past. That's how we learn.
That's yeah, that's why life isso upside down. Like, my goal is
mistakes. My wife

and I communicate really well right
now, because we didn'tcommunicate very well in the
beginning. But we were willingto stick with it, and work it
out. And I think I was thinkingabout that. Recently, on another
podcast I was on, we weretalking about relationships. And
we are better now. Because wewere willing to, like, get in

(41:09):
the muck and get to a goodresolution, and then we would
reflect back and say, like,Okay, that didn't feel good for
anybody. How do we do thatbetter next time, you know, next
time, instead of coming at itthis way, if you had just said
this, that would have gotten abetter reaction. And so then the
next time, I'd go, okay, and Ibring it up that way, and it has
maybe not a great reaction, buta less bad one. And, you know,

(41:30):
you can keep getting better fromthere. So I think, so much of
this is just continuing to makelittle progress on yourself.

So small, we, my husband, I've been married 23
years. And sometimes we will go,oh, gosh, you remember when we
were first married, how yousaid, blah, blah, blah. And then
sometimes they'll go, Oh, we'redoing that, again, it's just a
different look, it looksdifferent. But that has that
same back and forth, or thatsame barrier to communication.
So you can't get complacenteither, right? You can't think

(41:58):
oh are past that. Like, that'snot going to be an issue
anymore, because those thingssneak back up. But yeah,

there's the other thing too, I feel sort of
self righteous when I have theseconversations, because I know
that I'm pretty reflective. AndI know that I just naturally
have a lot of interests. And Iknow that I take on a lot and
can do a lot. And again, kind oflike I said before, it's easy to
feel like, oh, that's what itshould be. And it's not like you

(42:26):
don't have to be and youprobably shouldn't be as self
reflective as I am, it can getme in trouble sometimes to you
know, our greatest strengths.
Left unchecked, become ourgreatest weaknesses. So, but I
think if you just can be alittle more self aware, right?
If you just pay attention, well,that didn't go well. How could
that have gotten better? Right?
Just that level of selfawareness can have a big impact,

(42:47):
right? You don't have to do 1000different things. But if you
challenge yourself to experiencea couple of different things
every year, you know, severalyears down the road, you've
experienced a lot and you havesome really good perspective on
yourself. So it's not aboutagain, it's not about going out
and just doing everything andmaximizing and milking every
minute. It's doing it in a waythat feels authentic for you. I

(43:10):
think that's really important.
Well, then not feeling judged byother people who do it more or
differently.

And just constantly questioning yourself, like going
back to that journal prompt,right? Like, why what, what was
I thinking when this happened?
Where did I get that thought?
And like, what could that have?
What other way? Could I havethought about that? Right? Like,
that's yeah, two or three pagesin a journal. For me, sometimes
I'm just a simple interactionwith somebody to learn more
about myself. And then to kindof go through sometimes where I
wish I was better with like, thejournaling apps, or I've seen

(43:40):
people do it in their notes appwhere they put tags that were I
would love to be able tosomebody go back and like make a
theme for me, but like, you'vebeen struggling with this for
six months, like you need tofigure this out. But I think we
have so much access to so muchinformation in the world right
now. That it can be a littlelevel of fatigue, how much

(44:00):
opportunity and stuff is outthere. But I'm always gonna lean
on this right? It's my numberone Clifton strength is
communication. So I just feellike talking gets talking to
people, having conversations issuch a great place to start. But
somebody else might think, wow,did he say running barefoot?
Like, I want to try that. Butthe thing I do know is if you

(44:20):
are not being true to yourself,and you are not in the right
space, you will not have theenergy to explore. Like you have
to really figure out like why amI not trying new things? Why am
I not in new conversations withpeople? Why am I not finding the
space and time for this? Becauseit is a choice and it is coming
from somewhere? Typically,because you're exhausted for

(44:42):
something else that you'rehaving to work too hard at maybe
but yeah,

and I think to the comment about your 17 year
old son, you know, it's 17 itcan feel like it's too late.

Oh, yeah.

You know, I was talking to my brother One of my
two brothers, when he was maybe28. And he was like, Well, I'm
28. And I was like, yeah,exactly. Like, you do anything
you want, you could screw up acouple more times. And you know,
you're still fine over thecourse of your whole life. So it
because we're in it now, and wedon't know what it's like to

(45:19):
live longer. And again, I'mguilty of this too. We all are,
right, because we, we feel likewe're stuck in whatever the
thing is. But we're not, there'sso much opportunity out there,
which is some, you know, somelifts are big, and they are
scary. And they do require bigchange, but a lot don't. And,
you know, I see people work inbad jobs that they don't like,

(45:42):
but they feel like they can'tget anything better. You can,
you can always find a betteropportunity. It might not be the
next one you find you might getinto another bad opportunity.
But just keep going until youfind the good one. Again, and
even that doesn't have to be theperfect one. But you can get
too. You can get you can makethings better if you continue to
take action. Yeah.

And I just talked to some high school students
before I got on with you. Theywere doing like a virtual
conference. And they said, Canyou come talk about reskilling
and I was like to high schools.
Geez, I get it. That's like athing in like the world right
now. But I'm not really sure. So

we're still working on skilling.

Let me think about this. So I did like, oh, yeah,
that was like, they just threwdown the gauntlet, I had to
figure that out. And I actually,like, I'm pretty proud of what I
put together, I use Chet GPT alot, which I kept telling them,
but I was to help themunderstand that like, not all
learning you do in life, it'sgonna feel like high school,
right? Like, you're not alwaysgonna have like the rubric and

(46:42):
the standardized test, and thegrade and the GPA and somebody
telling you what looks good onyour application to college, or
thank God, I know right? Now,like should be the way you will
learn in the future. And we'lldefinitely need to learn. But I
mean, there's going to be suchindividualization and there's
going to be VR, and there'sgonna be all these great things,

(47:02):
however, where you're going tolearn the most about yourself is
in conversation and, you know,collaboration with others, and
being reflective. And I foundthis thing from World Economic
Forum that the top two, most indemand skills in the next five
years in corporate America arecreative thinking and analytical

(47:23):
thinking, right? And I said,like, you might be sitting here
and your algebra class and yourhistory and your English and
your music and your PE andthinking like, Why do I want to
go to college. That's why I liketo be with people that are in
growth mode, be with people thatare studious, and curious and
challenge you and come from adifferent place than you. And I

(47:44):
tell my son that all the time,like your brain isn't even fully
formed, go to college and, andgrow up, like, take the time.
And he's like, to your point,like he's like, I'm ready to
like, go live my life, like I'mready to go out into the world.
And I'm sitting there like, huh,I thought that at your age, too.

(48:05):
But yeah, it is just sodifferent. When we think about
just their journeys, and ourjourneys, and everybody in
between, right? Like, I'm sureyou look at your kids. And when
you're probably I think anothergreat exercise of writing a
children's book, like you did,is having to think, you know,
like, what, how do I have totell this story for them?

(48:27):
Because that's the other thing Iuse as an analogy forever as an
educator and talking aboutpeople getting ready for the
workforce is, how do you tellyour story that's not coming
from your perspective, liketelling you your skill story,
your resume story, yourexperiences, from the
perspective of the company who'sgot a position open, that they
need you to fill or problem theyneed you to solve. And just that

(48:48):
you have to have that selfawareness and self reflection to
be able to like adapt whatyou're trying to communicate,
it's just it's such a skill set.

Well, I've, I've said this a bunch, you may
have heard me say this on mypodcast, but I believe that
everything's a skill. And if wethink about that, that means we
can improve at everything and,and that there are more levels
to improve at everything. And soyou talk about communication,
right? Communication has a lotof layers to it. And there you

(49:20):
can always get better atcommunicating, whether it's
putting yourself in somebody'sshoes and understanding another
person, whether it's how we usestory or metaphor or analogy,
brevity versus length. I mean,there's so many different ways
that you can think aboutcommunicating different mediums

(49:41):
you can use to communicate. Andthis really hit me when my first
son was born. And I had twofriends recommend a sleep
training book. And I had neverreally thought about sleep
training before but they werelike, trust me read the book.
And I was like, okay, the samebook. Yes, they Good, the same
book 12 hour sleep by 12 weeksold.

Yes, I've had that

one. You read that one? Yep. And we read it.
And we followed it. And itworked in both of our boys slept
by 10 weeks. And I, you know,granted, they were born a little
larger, they were good sleepers,but like, still the methodology
worked. And I just was like, Oh,my God, you can train a human
being to sleep like this, likewe all have to sleep. This is

(50:27):
biologically programmed into us.
And yet, we just train theselittle humans to sleep better.
Oh, or how

about the, like, toddler sign language? Like,
yeah, I trained a less than oneyear old to tell me when he was
hungry. Yeah,

it's wild. And if you think it is, if you can
think if you just think that youhave, you don't have to, again,
you don't have to train a humanhead asleep, right? But you can
and there's levels to it, right.
And so just like anything else,you don't have to teach a human
being how to communicate. But ifyou don't, and you're not
thinking about how to be abetter communicator, then you're
just going to be stuck atwhatever sort of innate ability

(51:04):
you figured out, and it'sprobably not going to be a very
deep level. So if you thinkabout it like that, it just
opens up this world ofopportunity to go out and hone
whatever skills you want tolearn.

Yeah, I agree.
Well, obviously, I agree.
Because I've spent years as aneducator and think, yeah, we're
interested, constantly belearning and building those
skill sets to your point. So

as an educator, I'm gonna flip this on you
first, as an as an educator in asystem that does not build a lot
of creative thinking. How do wedo it? How do we how do we bring
that back to our kids? And howdo we challenge either on the
family level or on the broaderlevel?

Yeah, I think there's, I'm gonna sound like a
boomer right here. But I feellike my husband's an educator to
raise like 20 years in seventhgrade social studies, and then I
have had high school and collegelevel experience. In the best
lessons, I think if my if we setmy son down and said, like, what

(52:09):
have your parents taught you themost? It's the dinner table
conversation, and the like,being present, and curious about
all the things and notgatekeeping any of your
experiences, failures, any ofthose things, and then just even

(52:29):
a surly 17 year old, right, likemy son had this amazing kid, two
amazing experiences this pastsummer. One was figuring out you
didn't want to do computerscience. And that felt like a
really heavy realization. But hecame home and felt good sharing
that was like one of my biggestparenting wins. The second one

(52:49):
is he was working at Chipotle.
And just would like, go in earlyand stay late and come home and
be like, Mom, I got to washdishes for like three hours. It
was great. Okay, I'm just Idon't know where that like my
husband are both like soconfused. Where is that coming
from. And then he has moved onto a different job that he just

(53:11):
like, if he I would love to seehis timecard because he have he
has clocked in on time. Once inthe last however many months it
would shock me just can't quiteget plugged in. And so my
insistence, every time we talkabout is like, explain to me the
differences that you feel whenyou were going to Chipotle and

(53:34):
getting to wash dishes versuswalking into Walmart and pulling
orders. Right? Like he's alittle bit of an introvert. So
I'm like, is it the front linepiece? Is it this and he finally
he was like, I don't even knowhow to tell you. But like, at
the bigger company, I'm just anumber. But at Chipotle, there's
only like seven of us. And youhave to sometimes do the thing

(53:56):
nobody else wanted to do andsomebody's better. And I'm
listening to him thinking, oh,man, this is like something I
didn't learn until I was likelate 20s.

Like, we're going into startup world love.
And

I'm just like pulling this out of him. And I
was like, Honey, like, think ofall the applications of what
this looks like, right? So heand I have this conversation. My
husband comes home, he has acompletely different
conversation with it and likearound something completely
different. But I like I went tobed that night. And I thought
we're doing good work here. Likewe had a kid who came home and

(54:30):
like openly shared and thought,which is that's a credit to him.
But like the way we showed up,and we're just curious. I think
that matters so much. Andthere's been like he does roll
his eyes all the time. Like wedon't have to find the lesson
and everything mom. I'm alwayslike, Did you see what happened?
They're like we'll get in thecar of having been at the mall
or do you notice what was goingon with those two people? I

(54:53):
mean, he's just I think now he'scoming to grips with like, Oh,
you're not just weird. Like youwere trying to teach me
something. But I do think wehave to recognize. I mean, we,
in my evolution with education,I've had parents say to me,
well, like, you're the you'rethe educated one, you're the
teacher, like, if you can't dothis with them, what do you

(55:13):
think I can do? Right? Like, youneed to handle this, all the way
across to like, the most extremelevel of, you know, helicopter,
lawnmower, snow pot, whateverwe're calling him, the parents
who tried to just controleverything, and like, my son's
missing four assignments, whatare you going to do about it? I
mean, I've run the gamut withall of that. But just letting

(55:35):
them lead a lot of that. Andjust being curious, I think is
the best way to do that. AndI've looked, I've felt the
impact of this as well of like,students missing from the
workforce, right, because wewent through like a 1015 year
period, where we said to highschool students, like go into
schools, your job, you know,being all these clubs, and
organizations and sports and doall these things, it's gonna

(55:58):
look good on your application,and they weren't working, they
weren't getting those Chipotleexperiences, or those other
things, and being arounddifferent people and just
experiencing life and trying tobudget their money and, you
know, figure out they got taxes,like there wasn't a lot of that
going on. And I think we'regetting back to some of that.
But I think anytime you can putyour children in a place to be

(56:19):
curious and, and help themunderstand what that looks like.
I mean, I if I had it to do overagain, I mean, I used to take a
ton of field trips, andeverybody always said, I'd me
like I want to teach today. Butgetting those young people out
around professionals modelingfor them how easy it is to have
a conversation and howdesperately people in the world

(56:39):
want to help them. I just, Imean, I could go on, obviously,
for days about how important itis to put them in those places,

back to the beginning of this conversation,
you broaden their experience,you open the world and show them
a bunch of differentopportunities and change their
perspective. And now they can.
Now they have that perspectiveforever. And they can figure out
what to do with six cars perday, I broke the tires down, put
new tires on the rims, spun thembalanced, I'm putting him back

(57:06):
on I put on 15 pounds thatsummer. It was really hot
summer, we were working in a hotgarage. And that's just like one
of the most foundationalmemories I have. Because I was
like, Oh, I can work. Like yeah,it just showed me like, oh, I
can do hard things like I can dophysical hard things. I can
achieve something like I can dothis and I can get some respect

(57:29):
for it.

Oh, it takes away all of that. Just unknown that I
don't even know if it's fearwhen you're, you know, a
teenager. But that familiarityand the competence to know I'm
always gonna have something tofall back on because they are
scared like, oh, they make a lotof choices from being scared
just because of what theyconsume all day. And the large

(57:52):
part.

We all do, I think I think we don't realize
how much our decisions or lackof decisions come from that
place of scarcity. That's one ofthe things that I try to work
through with my coach is like,is this coming from a place of
scarcity? And if it is, how do Iunpack that and come up with the
decision I want to make not thefear based one?

Well, my really good friend, Ray Sylvester, who
you had on your podcastconstantly reminds me your diet
is more than what you put yourmouth, right? It's what you put
in your mouth. And it's what youdo. Everything you consume is
part of your diet. You got tomake sure you got a good
healthy, balanced diet. Yeah, Iwas so true. On that note, I
dangerous to ask this because Iknow it's probably going to be a
wide list as well. But like whatdo you love? What podcasts and

(58:35):
books and like where do you? Isit situational? As you prepare
for your conversations andthings? Are there certain
podcasts that you definitely aresubscribed to? So I subscribed
to

a couple of the popular ones. I mean, Joe Rogan,
Tim Ferriss, armchair expert,Jordan Harbinger, maybe a few
others, but those are kind ofthe ones that I listen to the
most probably. And the reason Ilike them is because they bring
on such a diverse set of guests.
And again, I like understandingdifferent parts of the world

(59:10):
from different people. So I likethem, because they're all pretty
good interviewers, they're allyou know, have very different
styles. And so you can have, youcan gain a lot of really
interesting knowledge, evenlistening to the same guest on
two of those shows, oftentimesthere'll be talking about
different are complementarythings. And so that's kind of

(59:31):
where that's what I listened tothe most. As far as books go, I
kind of have a policy that Ijust pick one book at a time.
And whatever book feels right inthat moment is the book that I
read. Now I have to read somebooks for the podcast to prep
for guests, but outside of that,you know, I was kind of

(59:53):
struggling wasn't sure what Iwas going to read. And then my
wife got me a picture sure thathad a quote from the alchemist
on it. I said, You know what Ijust turned 40. The Alchemist is
a great book to read it kind oflike pivotal moments. So I'm
reading it for the third time.
And I just picked it up andstarted reading it again. And I
don't know what the next book isthat I'm going to read. But

(01:00:13):
whenever I'm done, I'll justsort of figure out like, what's
the topic I'm interested in. AndI'll go in that direction. And
so I keep I use Goodreads tosort of keep track of books, I
think are interesting. But justbecause they're, I think they're
interesting doesn't mean I'mgonna be motivated when I
finished this book to read thatbook. And I find that if I read
the book, I think I should readright now. It takes forever to

(01:00:34):
finish. But if I just readwhatever the book is, that I
think is interesting right now.
And that could be it'll go youngadult fantasy, to a book about
trees, to a book about business,to psychology to Agatha Christie
to you know, something else. Andit's just like, all over the

(01:00:56):
place. One of my friends textedme one day, must have been
looking at my Goodreads account,and he goes, I, there's no way I
can predict what the next bookis that you're going to read.
And you

Anna Stumpf (01:01:06):
can't either that's kind of fun. Yeah, I think I
have friends who just likebuying, buy, buy books and
collect them. And then they feelthe pressure of like their books
that are waiting on them toread. And I'm Yeah, kind of the
opposite as well.

O'Brien McMahon (01:01:19):
Yeah, I think people feel a pressure that they
should be reading nonfiction, orthey should be reading fiction,
or they should be readinghighbrow fiction. Well, I don't
know, whatever it is. And I justthink like, I don't know, you
like graphic novels, readgraphic novels, if you and I've
heard this advice for kids, too.
Like, if your kids are readinganything? Let them read it, you
know? Yeah. Like, just if theyhappen to like, weird. Comic

(01:01:42):
books, let them go read theweird comic books, because
they're reading and they'reengaged in, they're passionate
about something. And you know,that's what we want to be
cultivating?

Sure. All right. I always like to ask, what kind of
advice do you have for peopleout there as they contemplate
life? And I mean, I don't knowhow you're gonna answer this
one, because it could be Ishould be giving you like, an
area to talk about, but it's I'mjust gonna throw the big wide
net and see what comes out. I

mean, we'll just we'll circle all the way
back to the beginning. And kindof the hopefully, the theme for
this conversation, you know, thebook that I wrote is called how
you become you. And I think,don't worry about who I am.
Don't worry about who yourparents are, or who they who
your parents want you to belike, figure out who you are.

(01:02:36):
And I think if we all figure outwhat that means, we'll all be a
lot happier. And, you know, theworld would be a better place.
As cheesy as that is. But

it's true in every version of yourself. Right? As
the world changes, as you grow,as you add, subtract from your
relationships, you have tocontinue to ask those questions.
I'm

here. Yeah, it's not a process that that
stops. No. And

that book, how you become you available on Amazon,
and probably most places you buybooks are

anywhere anywhere online that you would
buy books. Yep, you can get howyou become you. And

the podcast is just people business.

The podcast is people business, you may have to
search people business, O'BrienMcMahon. Yeah.
But yeah, it's on there. It's aweekly show. We've 160 Something
episodes at this point andcounting. And if you go to the
website, people businesspodcast.com, you can actually
search on there by the threecategories that we talked about

(01:03:38):
that we talked to a broad arrayof guests, but it's really
around three themes. It's how doyou become a better version of
yourself? How do you have betterinteractions with those around
you? And how do you organize andlead people and phenomenal
website, you can go through andsee little snippets, and you
tell what vocation these peoplehave. And it's it's a great
place to go shop for your nextepisode, which is great. You are

(01:04:02):
very active on LinkedIn. Forthose of you who are like, Where
can I learn more about what thisguy's up to?

About? Yes, come follow O'Brien McMahon on
LinkedIn. You're also onFacebook and Instagram website,
O'Brien mcmahon.com. So lots ofways to engage with you and
these amazing guests, you keepfinding so keep that keep
putting that out in the worldbecause it's helping me in my
household on an on a regularbasis. I appreciate it. Well,

(01:04:28):
that that makes my day thatmakes it all worth it. So
thanks. Good. That's the onething I can give you for taking
your time out to share with ustoday. Thanks. That's that is
the gift for me. So I appreciateit.
It's the conclusion of anothergreat episode. And you know what

(01:04:48):
that means? We believe in thepower of practical wisdom.
That's why at the end of everyepisode, we propose the
collective challenge. This is asmall actionable step for you to
integrate these lessons learnedinto your daily life. So this
week after listening to O'Briendiscuss the importance of self
discovery and continual growth,your collective challenge is
going to be to think about howyou can communicate better with

(01:05:10):
yourself, to learn more aboutyourself and where you could
make explorative decisions,better conversations, enhance
your relationships, just more indepth knowledge of yourself. And
obviously, one of the things wetalked about on the podcast was
journaling. So there arejournaling apps, some of you may
already very good at journaling,very good habits around that.

(01:05:32):
For those of you aren't justtake one small step towards this
goal and take some of the advicethat O'Brien gave about
challenging yourself withquestions and prompts and
different things. Take somededicated time this week for
self reflection. And if it's notthrough journaling, maybe it's
through more intentionalconversations with someone close
to you or spend some time inyour own thoughts. We're very

(01:05:55):
bad at that sometimes with ourphones and our feeds and all of
the commitments that we have.
But if you can challengeyourself to have some progress
in this area, I think it willgive you greater clarity and
appreciation for your uniquestory and the journey that
you're on becoming who you aremeant to be.

(01:06:29):
Thank you for joining us on thisepisode of collective energy
conversations. Today's storiesand insights are just the
beginning of our collectiveexploration into the vast
landscape of personal andprofessional development. If
today's conversation inspiredyou please share this episode
with your friends, family orcolleagues who also might find
value in our collective wisdom.
Your sharing helps us grow andexpand our community. We will be

(01:06:51):
back on Friday to share moreencounters with the energy coin.
If you're not sure what theenergy coin is, you can take a
listen to those episodes. Orcheck back at the website at
collective energy coach.comforward slash energy coin. And
don't forget to subscribe to ourpodcast for more enriching
conversation and transformativestories. We'd love to hear your

(01:07:11):
thoughts and experiences.
Connect with us on LinkedIn,Facebook, Instagram at threads
at collective energy coach, andcheck out our website at WWW dot
collective energy coach.com andbecome part of the collective.
Until next time, keep growing,keep connecting and keep sharing
your story because every voicematters in the journey of

(01:07:34):
growth. I'm Dr. Anna stump andthis has been collective energy
conversations where we elevategrowth through shared stories

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