February 1, 2024 • 11 mins
2023 Cultural Capital Fellow Penny Kagigebi (Ojibwe), a Queer2-Spirit artist from the White Earth Reservation, unveils their transformative experiences with grief and the pursuit of Queer2-Spirit cultural reclamation through indigenous art forms. Through their narrative, we're listeners and companions on their journey to alignment with the Earth's vibrations, using natural materials like birch bark and porcupine quills steeped in therapeutic resonance. Penny's candor about their family's painful history with forced relocations and boarding schools offers a potent reminder of the resilience in preserving generational knowledge and identity.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
When we're working with the birch bark, with
porcupine quills, with othermaterials from shear from this
land where we're from, how thathelps align our cellular
vibration to be in tune with theEarth's vibration and how
healing that is for us.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
The Wombski Beneathik Indigenous House of Tujac,
indodame, presents theCollective Spirit Podcast.
The collective spirit moveseach of us to stand up and make
a difference, to pass onancestral knowledge and simply
extend a hand of generosity.
The collective spirit podcastfeatures native artists and
culture bearers who discuss thepower of Indigenous art and
(00:51):
culture.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Wombski, beneathik.
Indigenous House of TujacIndodame.
How about beginning kagIshikoni gunning?
I am Penny Kaga Gaebe creatingplans from the Widerth
Reservation in NorthwesternMinnesota.
I am a Queer Two Spirit Ojibwewoman.
My primary art form is a birchbark basket tree, which includes
(01:18):
fill boxes and also what Irefer to as a contemporary
expression of traditional Ojibwebirch bark basket tree with
boat work and applique beadworkon birch bark.
Widerth Reservation was reallytargeted as the solution to the
Indian problem in this region.
They were just going to moveall of the Native Americans in
(01:39):
the Midwest over to Widerth andso we were super targeted by the
churches and the government.
My grandfather was born insouthern Minnesota in 1878 and
he was removed to Widerth.
He and his family were allremoved to Widerth before the
turn of the century, so he was afirst generation reservation
(02:04):
child.
And then my mother was born in1921 and she spent from second
grade to seventh grade in theboarding school here at Widerth
and she was roughly from 1920 to1934.
And for those six years shewasn't allowed to go home.
Her family could visit her oncea month for two hours on a
(02:26):
Sunday.
Her little brother passed awayand she didn't find out until
two weeks after the funeral.
I can only imagine how thatinfluenced my grandfather's
decisions, my mother's decisions, and I was not raised in the
culture.
I was raised on the reservation.
I wasn't raised with languageor cultural knowledge, and it
(02:46):
was in my mid-30s.
I was having a lot of healthproblems and I sought out
cultural knowledge andceremonial healing and that was
really where my journey with ARCbegan.
In 2008, my son passed away andfor the next year my husband
(03:08):
and I made gifts for his bundle.
We had a ceremony a year afterhis passing to send items over
to him and I got into theunderstanding about how making
of art can help heal grief.
And we're working with thebirch bark, with porcupine
quills and other materials fromhere, from this land where we're
(03:31):
from, how that helps align ourcellular vibration to be in tune
with the earth's vibration andhow healing that is for us.
All these other struggles thatI've had all my life they're
just not important.
When I'm working with birchbark, I have my hands on birch
bark.
I like birch bark so much.
(03:51):
I have little bookmarks, so,like when I read a little bit
each evening, the last thing I'mhandling at night before I go
to sleep is a little bit ofbirch bark.
The first time I thought quillbarks was in the late 90s and I
felt like I was struck bylightning.
And it wasn't the oh my gosh,that's so beautiful, it was.
(04:13):
I got to learn how to makethose.
I also had to learn how to makethose.
Sometimes you're walkingthrough your life and you
recognize that something waslike that's part of my path.
15 years later I was able to goand learn how to make quill
boxes with melosh and that wasthe first time I was able to do
porcupine quill work on birchbark with the sweet grass on
(04:37):
there.
And I came to learn that allthe woodland tribes in the
northeastern areas, like Canadaand out to the Atlantic Ocean,
have been making these quillboxes forever or storage
containers or medicines anddried foods.
And it's beautiful symmetry ofmaterial, since the birch bark
(04:58):
has the preservatives in thebark itself that take care of
those items that are placed inthere the old time emons at the
ACN Museum.
Sometimes there's sweet grassall along every seam and that
sweet grass will repel insects,so the insects aren't getting in
at your food item.
And then the porcupine quillembroidery on the top of the
(05:19):
cover is like a labeling system.
So if I had dried deer meat inthat container, maybe there
would be a porcupine quill workdesigned about deer on that
cover.
Now that porcupine quill work,embroidery has turned into a
very decorative and beautifulart form, but originally it was
(05:40):
that labeling system.
I really like utility items thatcan be used in everyday life.
I feel like that life can be sopainful, but when we have that
beauty, that kind of walksthrough the day with us, it
helps ease some of that pain ofliving here at this time.
That was almost 10 years ago.
I learned from Mel Lodge how tomake those quill boxes and in
(06:04):
the last few years I've startedmaking these more contemporary
baskets.
That allows for something thatI can teach in a classroom
setting and have an opportunityto have more community
engagement.
I am tremendously grateful toFirst People's Sun for this
(06:27):
opportunity, for this fellowship.
I love that.
They emphasize the spirit ofgenerosity and sharing knowledge
and I respect that so much.
One of my early teachers he'spassed away now.
That was such a strong value ofhis.
It's like everything that Iteach is meant to be taken
(06:50):
forward and used in any way thatmy students want to use it.
I don't try to claim anytrademark or copyright on making
a basket or putting beads onbirch bark.
If they want to expand on theirart form by making baskets and
selling them, or if they want togo forward and teach classes, I
(07:11):
will help them do that.
I really want to see peoplebecome more involved in their
culture and especially toreceive the healing that's
available to us throughpracticing these cultural art
forms.
(07:34):
The greatest challenge that I'mfacing as an artist today is the
access to public lands toharvest birch bark and taking
good care of the birch barktrees.
I do want to state that thebirch bark that's peeled for the
baskets, the harvesting of thatbirch bark, does not kill the
birch tree.
The tree is incredibly generousand has the ability to
(08:00):
self-heal as long as a person isharvesting it correctly.
So it comes with thatcounterbalance of anyone who
wants to work with birch bark.
They really do need to learnfrom an elder and spend time in
the woods with an elder learninghow to harvest that bark
correctly.
The birch forest has been on anextreme decline in the last 30
(08:23):
years and there's a lot ofreasons for that.
And without birch bark trees,ojibwe people aren't making
canoes, we're not using thatbirch bark for those week long
coverings.
The birch bark gives us foodand medicine.
It's one of the two trees thatwe refer to as the trees of life
the birch tree and the cedartree and I want people to
(08:47):
understand the value of thattree and to help take better
care of it.
So when it comes to teachingclasses around this basket tree,
that is the greatest struggleis having a sufficient amount of
the appropriate kind of birchbark to teach the classes.
In Minnesota alone, there's 21different varieties of birch
(09:09):
bark, and not all of them areappropriate for the kind of
baskets that I'm pretty forward.
In these classes.
I want to have bark that's veryforgiving and easy to work with
, and I want students to have anexcellent opportunity and
excellent learning experience inthat first time, and so it
takes a very particular kind ofbark to do that.
(09:30):
Additionally, I'm laying itflat and drying the bark for
about anywhere from six monthsto 24 months, because the color
of that bark will change as it'sdrying, and I believe that has
an extra level of beauty thatcomes forward.
(09:51):
I believe my role as a queertoothed bearded artist is to
allow people an opportunity tolearn about cultural art forms
in a way that allows people tocome and be holy themselves,
like they don't have to shrinkand become smaller.
I want people to be able tocome to learning about their
(10:12):
culture in a way that's generousand gentle and inviting, and
that people don't need to changewho they are to be accepted in
our community.
I've never been somebody who'sbeen willing to accept just
(10:37):
tolerance.
I believe our wives are to becelebrated and if we're given an
opportunity to flourish, ourcommunities will be more vibrant
and more alive and morebalanced and we'll all receive
healing.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
The Collective Spirit podcast is produced by First
Peoples Fund, whose mission isto honor and support indigenous
artists and culture bearersthrough grant making initiatives
, thoroughly rooted programmingand training and mentorship and
more at FirstPeoplesFundorg.
When we're working with the birch bark, with
porcupine quills, with othermaterials from shear from this
land where we're from, how thathelps align our cellular
vibration to be in tune with theEarth's vibration and how
healing that is for us.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
The Wombski Beneathik Indigenous House of Tujac,
indodame, presents theCollective Spirit Podcast.
The collective spirit moveseach of us to stand up and make
a difference, to pass onancestral knowledge and simply
extend a hand of generosity.
The collective spirit podcastfeatures native artists and
culture bearers who discuss thepower of Indigenous art and
(00:51):
culture.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Wombski, beneathik.
Indigenous House of TujacIndodame.
How about beginning kagIshikoni gunning?
I am Penny Kaga Gaebe creatingplans from the Widerth
Reservation in NorthwesternMinnesota.
I am a Queer Two Spirit Ojibwewoman.
My primary art form is a birchbark basket tree, which includes
(01:18):
fill boxes and also what Irefer to as a contemporary
expression of traditional Ojibwebirch bark basket tree with
boat work and applique beadworkon birch bark.
Widerth Reservation was reallytargeted as the solution to the
Indian problem in this region.
They were just going to moveall of the Native Americans in
(01:39):
the Midwest over to Widerth andso we were super targeted by the
churches and the government.
My grandfather was born insouthern Minnesota in 1878 and
he was removed to Widerth.
He and his family were allremoved to Widerth before the
turn of the century, so he was afirst generation reservation
(02:04):
child.
And then my mother was born in1921 and she spent from second
grade to seventh grade in theboarding school here at Widerth
and she was roughly from 1920 to1934.
And for those six years shewasn't allowed to go home.
Her family could visit her oncea month for two hours on a
(02:26):
Sunday.
Her little brother passed awayand she didn't find out until
two weeks after the funeral.
I can only imagine how thatinfluenced my grandfather's
decisions, my mother's decisions, and I was not raised in the
culture.
I was raised on the reservation.
I wasn't raised with languageor cultural knowledge, and it
(02:46):
was in my mid-30s.
I was having a lot of healthproblems and I sought out
cultural knowledge andceremonial healing and that was
really where my journey with ARCbegan.
In 2008, my son passed away andfor the next year my husband
(03:08):
and I made gifts for his bundle.
We had a ceremony a year afterhis passing to send items over
to him and I got into theunderstanding about how making
of art can help heal grief.
And we're working with thebirch bark, with porcupine
quills and other materials fromhere, from this land where we're
(03:31):
from, how that helps align ourcellular vibration to be in tune
with the earth's vibration andhow healing that is for us.
All these other struggles thatI've had all my life they're
just not important.
When I'm working with birchbark, I have my hands on birch
bark.
I like birch bark so much.
(03:51):
I have little bookmarks, so,like when I read a little bit
each evening, the last thing I'mhandling at night before I go
to sleep is a little bit ofbirch bark.
The first time I thought quillbarks was in the late 90s and I
felt like I was struck bylightning.
And it wasn't the oh my gosh,that's so beautiful, it was.
(04:13):
I got to learn how to makethose.
I also had to learn how to makethose.
Sometimes you're walkingthrough your life and you
recognize that something waslike that's part of my path.
15 years later I was able to goand learn how to make quill
boxes with melosh and that wasthe first time I was able to do
porcupine quill work on birchbark with the sweet grass on
(04:37):
there.
And I came to learn that allthe woodland tribes in the
northeastern areas, like Canadaand out to the Atlantic Ocean,
have been making these quillboxes forever or storage
containers or medicines anddried foods.
And it's beautiful symmetry ofmaterial, since the birch bark
(04:58):
has the preservatives in thebark itself that take care of
those items that are placed inthere the old time emons at the
ACN Museum.
Sometimes there's sweet grassall along every seam and that
sweet grass will repel insects,so the insects aren't getting in
at your food item.
And then the porcupine quillembroidery on the top of the
(05:19):
cover is like a labeling system.
So if I had dried deer meat inthat container, maybe there
would be a porcupine quill workdesigned about deer on that
cover.
Now that porcupine quill work,embroidery has turned into a
very decorative and beautifulart form, but originally it was
(05:40):
that labeling system.
I really like utility items thatcan be used in everyday life.
I feel like that life can be sopainful, but when we have that
beauty, that kind of walksthrough the day with us, it
helps ease some of that pain ofliving here at this time.
That was almost 10 years ago.
I learned from Mel Lodge how tomake those quill boxes and in
(06:04):
the last few years I've startedmaking these more contemporary
baskets.
That allows for something thatI can teach in a classroom
setting and have an opportunityto have more community
engagement.
I am tremendously grateful toFirst People's Sun for this
(06:27):
opportunity, for this fellowship.
I love that.
They emphasize the spirit ofgenerosity and sharing knowledge
and I respect that so much.
One of my early teachers he'spassed away now.
That was such a strong value ofhis.
It's like everything that Iteach is meant to be taken
(06:50):
forward and used in any way thatmy students want to use it.
I don't try to claim anytrademark or copyright on making
a basket or putting beads onbirch bark.
If they want to expand on theirart form by making baskets and
selling them, or if they want togo forward and teach classes, I
(07:11):
will help them do that.
I really want to see peoplebecome more involved in their
culture and especially toreceive the healing that's
available to us throughpracticing these cultural art
forms.
(07:34):
The greatest challenge that I'mfacing as an artist today is the
access to public lands toharvest birch bark and taking
good care of the birch barktrees.
I do want to state that thebirch bark that's peeled for the
baskets, the harvesting of thatbirch bark, does not kill the
birch tree.
The tree is incredibly generousand has the ability to
(08:00):
self-heal as long as a person isharvesting it correctly.
So it comes with thatcounterbalance of anyone who
wants to work with birch bark.
They really do need to learnfrom an elder and spend time in
the woods with an elder learninghow to harvest that bark
correctly.
The birch forest has been on anextreme decline in the last 30
(08:23):
years and there's a lot ofreasons for that.
And without birch bark trees,ojibwe people aren't making
canoes, we're not using thatbirch bark for those week long
coverings.
The birch bark gives us foodand medicine.
It's one of the two trees thatwe refer to as the trees of life
the birch tree and the cedartree and I want people to
(08:47):
understand the value of thattree and to help take better
care of it.
So when it comes to teachingclasses around this basket tree,
that is the greatest struggleis having a sufficient amount of
the appropriate kind of birchbark to teach the classes.
In Minnesota alone, there's 21different varieties of birch
(09:09):
bark, and not all of them areappropriate for the kind of
baskets that I'm pretty forward.
In these classes.
I want to have bark that's veryforgiving and easy to work with
, and I want students to have anexcellent opportunity and
excellent learning experience inthat first time, and so it
takes a very particular kind ofbark to do that.
(09:30):
Additionally, I'm laying itflat and drying the bark for
about anywhere from six monthsto 24 months, because the color
of that bark will change as it'sdrying, and I believe that has
an extra level of beauty thatcomes forward.
(09:51):
I believe my role as a queertoothed bearded artist is to
allow people an opportunity tolearn about cultural art forms
in a way that allows people tocome and be holy themselves,
like they don't have to shrinkand become smaller.
I want people to be able tocome to learning about their
(10:12):
culture in a way that's generousand gentle and inviting, and
that people don't need to changewho they are to be accepted in
our community.
I've never been somebody who'sbeen willing to accept just
(10:37):
tolerance.
I believe our wives are to becelebrated and if we're given an
opportunity to flourish, ourcommunities will be more vibrant
and more alive and morebalanced and we'll all receive
healing.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
The Collective Spirit podcast is produced by First
Peoples Fund, whose mission isto honor and support indigenous
artists and culture bearersthrough grant making initiatives
, thoroughly rooted programmingand training and mentorship and
more at FirstPeoplesFundorg.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.