November 7, 2024 • 46 mins
This episode is the second part of our two-part series on Global Indigeneity and the role of art. We’re featuring a conversation with Shaarbek Amankul, a multidisciplinary Indigenous Kyrgyz artist and the founder and director of the Nomadic Art Camp. Established in 2011, the Nomadic Art Camp was created to connect artists from around the world with Central Asia's rich art, culture, and landscapes, with a special focus on Kyrgyz traditional nomadic life as a source of inspiration for contemporary, globally relevant art practices.
Joining Shaarbek in this conversation is Sicangu Lakota artist and scholar Clementine Bordeaux, who grew up on the Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota. Clementine holds a PhD from UCLA and is also involved with Racing Magpie, a Lakota-centered arts and culture organization based in Rapid City, South Dakota. Finally, you’ll hear from Heidi Brandow, a Diné and Kanaka Maoli multidisciplinary artist and current Associate Director of Communications at First Peoples Fund. Enjoy this episode, and we invite you to visit the companion blog, which highlights first-hand experiences from the inaugural cohort of Native American artists at the Nomadic Art Camp in Kyrgyzstan and support the Nomadic Art Camp GoFundMe campaign to ensure this critical engagement between Indigenous people continues.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
You know, this is such an amazing time right now
for Native people to be alive.
We are really living in such anamazing time and we have to
take a moment to really feelthat.
We have to know that, we haveto talk about it, we have to
acknowledge it and I think tohave these conversations about
the possibility of hostingexhibitions that highlight these
collaborations between globalIndigenous folks is really
(00:25):
powerful and that we really needto be a part of this momentum
that's happening globally.
First Peoples Fund presents theCollective Spirit Podcast.
The collective spirit moveseach of us to stand up and make
a difference, to pass onancestral knowledge and simply
(00:48):
extend a hand of generosity.
The Collective Spirit podcastfeatures Native artists and
culture bearers who discuss thepower of Indigenous art and
culture.
Hello and thank you for tuningin to the Collective Spirit
(01:10):
podcast.
This episode is the second partof our two-part series on global
indigeneity and the role of art.
We're featuring a conversationwith Sharbek Amankul, a
multidisciplinary IndigenousKyrgyz artist and the founder
and director of the Nomadic ArtCamp.
Established in 2011, theNomadic Art Camp was created to
(01:33):
connect artists from around theworld with Central Asia's rich
art, culture and landscapes,with a special focus on Kyrgyz
traditional nomadic life as asource of inspiration for
contemporary, globally relevantart practices.
Joining Sharbek in thisconversation is Sichangu Lakota
artist and scholar, clementineBordeaux, who grew up on the
(01:56):
Pine Ridge Reservation in SouthDakota.
Clementine holds a PhD fromUCLA and is also involved with
Racing Magpie, a Lakota-centeredarts and culture organization
based in Rapid City, southDakota.
And finally, you'll also hearfrom me, heidi Brandau, a Diné,
and Kanaka Maoli,multidisciplinary artist, 2018
(02:17):
First Peoples Fund Artist andBusiness Leadership Fellow and
current Associate Director ofCommunications at First Peoples
Fund.
We hope you enjoy this episodeand invite you to visit the
companion blog on thefirstpeoplesfundorg website,
which highlights firsthandexperiences from the inaugural
cohort of Native Americanartists at the Nomadic Art Camp
(02:40):
in Kyrgyzstan camp in Kyrgyzstan.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Thank you very much, Heidi, for inviting me to this
interesting meeting and thankyou to Clementine to join us.
And I'm very happy to talk aboutthis because for many years I
was trying to get in contactwith Native American artists and
this year it happened.
My interest was always to getto find some similarity and
(03:11):
differences between ourdifferent communities from
Kyrgyzstan and America, and nowI'm always asking myself if the
DCBC, our old history, andduring this nomadic art camp I
saw some similarities in feelingconnection to the nature, to
(03:31):
the earth, to the traditions,which was for me very
interesting and this is why Ithink the artists from different
continents, from America andfrom Central Asia, especially
from Kyrgyzstan, we try todevelop kind of cooperation and
collaboration for long term andgiving this possibility also for
(03:54):
many other artists, includingnew generations.
And I would like to ask youwhat do you feel when you were
in Kyrgyzstan?
What did you feel when you werein Kyrgyzstan?
How was your time in Kyrgyzstanwhen you met local people and
you see nature, you see howlocal people, community related
(04:15):
to the land, to nature, toanimals, to the life, and what
was?
Speaker 3 (04:24):
your impression.
My biggest impression of beingin Kyrgyzstan was the rural
aspect of it all.
So I grew up on a tribalreservation in South Dakota
which has maybe 10,000 peoplethat live in a very large space
of land in the northern plainsof what is now the United States
(04:48):
.
For me there was a lot ofsimilarities.
Even though I didn't know thelanguage and I've never been to
Kyrgyz communities, it felt veryfamiliar to me.
Where I grew up, you have todrive very long distances to get
anywhere.
There's a lot of kind of laidback communal space and
(05:09):
experiences and exchanges acrossfamilies, and so I think, aside
from culturally, there are somedifferences, but I think being
on the land and traveling youknow we were driving hours every
day to see different things itreminded me of just being back
on my tribal reservation and andI think I've been processing a
(05:32):
lot since we returned home ofthinking about being nomadic,
more so as a mindset and notnecessarily, you know, because
so many of our communities areturning to urban spaces and
moving to cities and in a placelike the United States right, I
think over, I think it's like60% of tribal people now live in
cities I think we have to startthinking about being nomadic as
(05:56):
a, as a mindset, and being ableto travel a lot and visit
different people andexperiencing different things
across distances, but stillcarrying who we are as tribal
people.
And so my impressions were thatit felt like home in a
particular way, because that'show I grew up and being able to
(06:18):
just go from place to place,travel long distances, but also
just everywhere you knowsomebody and everywhere you're
like meeting old friends ormeeting new relatives, and I
think that's kind of what itfelt like to travel with you
Sharbeck is I've you would justroll up to someone's house and
be like we're going to talkabout this and we're going to do
(06:39):
this and I I just felt like Iwas traveling with a relative
that was taking me to visit likeall his cool friends, and
that's why I feel like, when Icome home, like I'm going to
visit family or friends, andsometimes I'm going to new
places on different reservationsor in different tribal lands.
That's how it felt for me.
It felt very familiar.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, I would agree and I would say you know I was
writing about some of this.
Schaubach had asked for aresponse and I was just looking
at it again and the vastness ofthe land and sort of witnessing
communities and people living inthese rural settings but also
tending to their livestock alsowas very familiar because, like
(07:22):
you, our homelands are alsosimilar, was very familiar
because, like you, our homelandsare also similar.
I think Navajos in particular,we don't live like Pueblos in
that we live far away from eachother and I often you know,
because in Hawaii it's also verymuch the opposite and Pueblos
primarily.
So I resonate a lot with thesemore communal settings but
(07:42):
seeing that also reminded me ofthe Navajo Nation and sort of
how we are so distant from oneanother in these like vast
settings.
But seeing that also remindedme of the Navajo Nation and sort
of how we are so distant fromone another in these vast
landscapes, but also feelinglike this deep sense of freedom
and belonging to the land amongthe people maybe not necessarily
for myself and that thestillness and that quiet freedom
felt like a form of resistancein and of itself and I also
really love what you mentionedabout that.
(08:05):
We have to, to some degree,adopt this mentality of being in
this kind of nomadic mindset.
So, whether we're being nomadsby our own choices or if we're
being forced to relocate foreconomic reasons, I think one of
the things that we'reexperiencing a lot in our Native
communities is having to leavefor jobs, sometimes maybe
(08:28):
leaving for opportunities likeschool.
I think, more and more nowwe're also seeing globally the
necessity of having to benomadic because of climate
change.
So our world is changing and,in fact, this necessity of
adopting or being part ofnomadic society, I think, is a
very relevant conversation.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Okay, thank you very much.
You know, in this project,which is a critical ingredient
of this project, it was used ina traditional nomadic way or
life of the current nomads inthe Naren area and in the
Sikulia area, the Kyrgyz nomadsin the Naryn area and in the
(09:09):
Sikulia area, which is in theSikulia lakes, and as a source
of inspiration for contemporaryart practices.
So this was why we visiteddifferent places and Kyrgyz
culture is normally related tothe horse culture.
Without horses, kyrgyz is notKyrgyz.
This is always with horse.
So, and this is why people inKyrgyzstan still using the
(09:33):
nomadic way, when this is,especially from springtime to
autumn time, they go to pasture,to the high mountain with a lot
of animals, and you saw a lotof how many animals there from
different horses, cows, yaks,sheep, goats.
In this project, I try to focusthat this nomadism is not solely
(09:57):
viewed as a physical journey,but also as a metaphor for life,
ongoing exploration, symbolicdiscovery, change and growth.
This is why it is veryimportant for artists to feel
this and understand, to getinspiration from these new
(10:17):
places, from new territories,and I hope, of course, that you,
when you are staying inRomantic, you are fully equipped
for individual art projects.
I hope, of course, that you,while you were staying in
nomadic youth, were looking forindividual art projects and
exploring local nature and thisrich history, spirituality and
heritage, including traditionalnomadism, shamanism and, you see
(10:39):
, nomad, soviet and moderncapitalistic culture which is
now as a Kyrgyzstan.
And what was your biggestinspiration?
What you saw there duringnomadic camp in Kyrgyzstan and
what you can remember, whattouched you?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
for me.
You know, we did have all theseexperiences across these
different territories and ourartistic and creative practices
and, honestly, my well, asidefrom the eagle, of course,
meeting all the eagles was veryprofound and beautiful, but I
have a really intimateconnection with rocks, so being
(11:21):
able to see the differentmountains and land and the rocks
that we've met along the waywhile I was there I don't know
if I might have shared this withyou, heidi, but I know I don't
think I shared this with you,sharbeck, but I was having
dreams of bringing rocks from myhome to Kyrgyzstan, and so for
(11:43):
me, that was the, and I've beenthinking a lot about our
relationship with rocks andstones and cause we have here in
my community we have a lot ofconversations and stories about
our creation and how we comefrom stones and we come from
rocks, and so being able to seethe land in that particular way
(12:04):
and to hold rocks and to be andto see the art also that was
reflected in from the magicstones and the rocks there was
really really profound for meand it has has been something
that I've been thinking about alot, and so I just I love rocks
and I know that probably soundssilly to non-tribal people, but
(12:25):
they're so important to us and Iknow they're very important to
you all too so that for me itwas being able to just see the
land and be a part of the land.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
You know, I can't remember which number of day it
was, like what day it was interms of was it the fourth day,
was it the fifth day but I knowthat we had stayed in the
village home and I rememberSharp Ek had asked us at dinner
what was the most touching thingso far, like what is your
impression of our experiences sofar on this trip?
(12:57):
And we were all kind of goingaround the table and like
sharing something at the tableand I remember that I felt
overwhelmed with emotion in thatmoment, just because, like I
know that up until that moment Ithink we had been to Tashrabat,
naran and so on and we had justgotten to Issyk-Kul.
But I think the most touchingthing for me at that moment and
(13:20):
it really kind of stuckthroughout the entire duration
was, I think it was the land andwitnessing sort of, the vast
expanse of the land and not toover-romanticize the people who
are living in these rural areas,but to see the still like close
relationship with these animalsand also just sensing you,
sharpek, as our host, a deepsense of pride in sharing these
(13:43):
things with us and I feel likethat, those thingsck, as our
host, a deep sense of pride insharing these things with us and
I feel like that those thingscombined, they're really
powerful.
It also made me think about alot of things we have lost in my
own community, seeing, forexample, like this relationship
with horses.
A week before I had left thecountry, there was a story in
the Navajo Times which is likeour Navajo Nation newspaper.
(14:04):
There was a story in the NavajoTimes which is like our Navajo
Nation newspaper and they weretalking about horses, wild
horses and how on the NavajoNation there's a lot of wild
horses right now, to the extentthat it's almost becoming like a
problem.
And so they interviewed all ofthese like rancher guys, just
people in the community.
And I remember reading this orseeing this guy's response and
(14:27):
he's a rancher, he's Navajo, andhe was saying that he was upset
that people were siding withthe horses because he was like
these people.
They don't understand the kindof problems that these horses
are creating because they don'tlive here every day.
They shouldn't comment on itand they shouldn't have an
opinion on how we decide to takecare of this problem.
(14:48):
Quote, unquote problem which isto imply that his solution is
that they kill these horses.
And this is a guy from my owncommunity.
So to see this, it just made methink, like how we've lost these
waves.
So, in fact, the horse is notthe problem.
The problem is that we've lostthis connection.
So, in fact, the horse is notthe problem.
The problem is that we've lostthis connection to understanding
(15:08):
how to live with the horse andhow to work with the horse on
our lands, and so I think thatwas part of the witnessing all
of this.
I think that's I could even getemotional now.
I could cry, because these arereal issues and these are things
that are happening every day.
And you know, and you alsotalked about us visiting these
eagles, right, and we were sofortunate to visit them not once
(15:30):
, but technically like threetimes.
And I know, sharpek, probablythis could be like maybe a
novelty thing for you, becauseit's so like a regular part of
Kyrgyz people and culture, butagain, I mean, this is also for
us so exciting because we alsohave lost this closeness with
these animals, like we have acloseness in our heart, but I
(15:51):
mean the closeness of, like thisguy, the first one, I remember
he had the eagle close to hisface, you know, and was
basically nuzzling the eagle andto see this kind of exchange,
it's really touching.
Perhaps being a part of thesetypes of exchanges, or this one
in particular, is importantbecause I think it reignites
(16:11):
that type of recognition andrelationship with the land and
with people and animals and soon.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
What similarities do you see between the history of
Native Americans and Kyrgyzindigenous people in terms of
their relation with the land andespecially, of course, with the
similarities between artists,because we represent our
cultures and during this time,did you see some differences or
(16:44):
similarities between, especiallybetween us, between artists or
between persons?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
In our time in Kyrgyzstan, I saw many
similarities between artistsfrom Kyrgyzstan and I also saw
potential in.
What I'm interested in as anartist myself and as a scholar
(17:11):
is kind of this everydayexchange that we have with art
in our life and the way that weutilize creative practice to
communicate our relationship toa particular place.
And so I love the everyday.
So seeing the eagle huntersshow up with the eagle, like
chilling in the back seat withthe dog in the trunk, but then
(17:34):
you know they get out and theylike have this beautiful
demonstration with their eagle.
But I love those moments ofjust the everyday.
Or you know, as Heidi said,when we, when we went to visit
to try to set up a time to meetwith the eagles, and we got to
see there was what like three orfour of them and we were all
just in awe of these eagles.
(17:54):
For me, I feel art doesn't haveto be extraordinary to be
beautiful or connect us to placeto be beautiful or connect us
to place.
And I think I felt that a lotin what we were experiencing
while we were at the nomadic artcamp.
And I try to see that samething in my own community.
So often people who don't donot think of themselves as
(18:16):
artists are the people that I'mmost eager to talk to and to
engage with.
But also, I think, the everydayartist like going and visiting
the studio and seeing thestudents come in and the
students learning how to drawand the encouragement they were
getting from the instructor Ithink for me those spaces felt
(18:40):
again very familiar.
But also just the everydaycreation of art that would go
inside the yurt or materialculture that we wear.
I love seeing those things inaction that are also just.
They don't have to be in an artgallery, they should be able to
do both.
And I felt that a lot in theartists that we met the Kyrgios
(19:03):
artist that we met, and thenthat reflection that I saw in my
own community of just likeeveryday people but they also
are doing really beautiful,creative things that reflect
land, that reflect culture, thatreflect relationship, and so I
saw a lot of those similarities.
What about you, heidi?
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yes, same, I think, also something that I shared
briefly with Sharbeck, whichI'll include here, because
you're talking about theseeveryday things that often are.
The value is diminished becauseit's like, oh, this isn't in a
museum.
I guess another form of thatthat was really touching to me
too was food and the care thatwas involved in producing the
(19:49):
meals.
Every single meal that we atetogether was made by someone's
hands, like it was collected bysomeone's hands.
It was made by someone's hands,and so everything was made with
so much care and theingredients were good and we ate
well, like every day.
To me, those kind of things arereally high value and also a
(20:11):
form of art.
So to partake in something likethat every day as part of our
regular experience, I think wasreally touching.
But I think the same level ofcare is expressed through food
here and I think that's why Icould see that and relate to it
and really appreciate it,because it was something that I
think is easily it's likeinvisible labor and it's
(20:33):
something that maybe we take forgranted, but it definitely
wasn't.
It wasn't lost on me.
I was aware of the love andcare that was involved in all
the preparation and food that wepartook.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Thank you and I want a little bit to explain to you
about Nomadic Art Camp becausenormally if you see how it's,
local nomad people, pergispeople, they go to mountain, to
pasture, and from May till endof September and I also try to
make this project from May tillend of September and I also
tried to make this project fromMay till end of September, so
(21:09):
it's meaning we were inSeptember.
So in this case we didn't meetsome nomads who living in nature
with animals, there is no civilinfrastructure, it was really
wild nature, because alreadythere was in some pool, was road
closed because there wasalready snow.
(21:31):
And its meaning, depending onseason, nomadic Art Camp, if it
will be May or June or July orAugust or September, it is
different, different faces.
Artists can see these differentfaces from nature, from people,
from the surrounding, from land.
And, for example, when we wentto Bosovar pasture and then we
(21:55):
go direction to this Tashrabatdirection, you saw how many
animals were there, how manyhorses were in the free land and
I ask you, do you have somesame similarity how this is in
your land?
You have also a lot of horses ora lot of animals, and this is
(22:18):
animals just free, running, free, walking, and there are no
people who are looking for them.
They are just free, running,free, walking, and there are no
people who are looking for them.
They're just free.
But this is not all, not ineverywhere.
This is only special places inmountain area, which is really a
high mountain, where animalscan get their food.
(22:40):
And my question is do you feelsomething?
That is, if you have somethingin your land, how are animals
running free, or is this onlyfrom the past?
Speaker 1 (22:53):
I think it's like what I was talking about earlier
, just using the example ofhorses and how our relationship,
on the Navajo Nation at least,has shifted.
You know where these wildhorses there's a lot of them now
becoming a nuisance to somepeople rather than communities
seeing them as an asset and as arelative and as something that
(23:14):
we might need to remember orreconnect with understanding our
relationship.
It just seems really fractured.
So I can only speak of theNavajo Nation and in Hawaii.
In Hawaii it's so messed upright now Our indigenous animals
are really a lot of them are atrisk of being extinct, and it's
(23:35):
a really hard reality.
But it's a reality that I thinkreally mirrors what's happening
to Native Hawaiian people inour own homelands.
Initially, when Europeansarrived, my people were heavily
impacted by disease, and so youknow nearly 80%, if not more, of
Native Hawaiians upon contactwere lost to disease, and with
(23:57):
that came the loss of culture,language, traditions, and you
know so it severely impacted usin that initial encounter and
ever since then, I think, mypeople have been struggling.
Today, over 60% of NativeHawaiians don't even live in
Hawaii.
(24:17):
Most Native Hawaiians have hadto relocate or move because of
loss of access to land, economicreasons, maybe school, so many
different reasons but the factremains, which is that Native
Hawaiians are not in Hawaii andtherefore this is reflected in
the plants that are endemic toour homelands.
(24:38):
This is reflected also in theanimals that are endemic to
Hawaii as well.
So all of this to say that Iwas very much inspired by Kyrgyz
people and their relationshipto animals and also just seeing
the vast amount of animals, bothwild and domestic, and kind of
(24:59):
this ongoing connection andlivelihood that's involved with
living on the land and withthese animals, because, you know
, it's something that I think inmy community is definitely we
do have some things that arevery hopeful and inspiring as
well.
Don't get me wrong, but I dothink that the nomadic art camp
(25:20):
is unique in the sense that itcan provide that type of
experience to incite that typeof dialogue and this type of
inspiration that I hope otherNative folks can witness as well
, so that we can all kind oftake part of this experience and
bring back that type ofknowledge back home, because we
really need this.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
And I think for the Northern Plains, we have a lot
of domesticated animals.
They're not free range in thesense of how they are, I think,
in the more rural parts ofKyrgyzstan and there are efforts
to try to build ourrelationship again with the
(26:02):
bison, but right now a lot ofthe bison herds are managed or
co-managed by non-tribalentities.
And then we there's a lotranching is such a big thing in
my community when we were forcedonto reservations after the
(26:23):
signing of the 1868 treaty,there were ranchers and ranch
families who settled the Dakota,the Dakotas, north Dakota,
south Dakota, and they signedlike hundred year, 99 year
leases.
So we have, like these whiteranching families who now have
(26:47):
married into our tribalcommunities but still have this
mentality that they can just runtheir cattle on our lands.
So there's a lot of tension, Ithink, of how our relationship
is with cattle and then withhorses.
I think there's still abeautiful relationship with
horses, but probably not in thefree range that we saw while we
(27:09):
were in Kyrgyzstan, cause I havea lot of family and friends who
who raise horses and havereally intimate relationship
with with horses and we, youknow, are a horse now are a
horse community, but there.
It it's not what it used to beand I think, with and like
echoing Heidi and thedevastation that's happening in
(27:32):
Hawaii because of domesticatedanimals and domesticated people,
I think, similarly, like we,you know, we have, like the
black-footed ferret, we haveanimals that are on the verge of
extinction in our territory orat risk of, like, very dire
diseases.
We have small prairie dogs thatcarry the bubonic plague and
(27:54):
that's who the black footedferret eats, you know.
So there's this whole cycle ofdisease and, like Heidi said, I
think it's reflected in peopleand definitely reflected in the
land and our animal relatives.
So I think we definitely arestruggling to maintain those
connections and, yeah, I agreewith Heidi that there's so much
(28:17):
to learn from Kyrgyz people andhow they're able to sustain
these relationships together.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I want also a little bit talk about hunting, because
when you saw this eagle, also,this hunter told us that they
are normally hunting only inspecial time From spring till
October.
You cannot hunt because ofchildren, little babies from
(28:56):
these animals.
Only from wintertime you canhave some season where you can
hunt and also, if it's an eagle,normally hunters let it free.
After some years this eagle canget a family, can get a baby,
of course, can produce freedomalso.
(29:17):
This is also important aspectwhich how people related to the
nature, to the animals, tosurrounding, because normally if
you see how nomad people go topasture and then bring yurt and
then they go back and then bringyurt and then they go back,
they're taking yurt.
There are no buildings, nostrong buildings.
(29:38):
The animals are not destroyed.
Everything you saw from animals, some things, all they're using
for life, and there are no, nological things.
This is why us artists are alsolearning how, in old time,
people are using thistraditional wisdom, traditional
(30:01):
knowledge, and this is, I think,important also for us, for
artists to use this, to learnand to give this important
aspect for the new generationthat also can save this.
And I saw also that Americannative artists using.
I mean using or show in theirartworks a lot of, a lot of
(30:27):
sources from their culturalheritage, from traditions, and
this is also important for me,because your art communities
still have this feeling, a deepfeeling for sources, and even if
(30:49):
you have not some like in oldtime, free, where the animals
can go freely around thedifferent nature, your
collective memory have this,that this artist as a
transformer.
They show this through theirart.
This is a very important aspectand, of course, for the future
(31:11):
generation also, to find our ownway in this contemporary art
and about this solidarity andsupport between indigenous
people globally.
And I was thinking how todevelop this idea and what do
you think about this.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
I think there is a really important conversation
that's happening right nowbetween climate change, art and
food practices.
There are organizationsglobally that are trying to have
this conversation andunfortunately they're not.
They're just now trying toinclude tribal communities in
(31:52):
those conversations.
But I think this is the perfecttime in the world right now to
have this conversation about howwe can brainstorm across
communities I don't know whatelse to call it but to think
through how we sustain ourpractice, our food practices and
(32:16):
our hunt right, which would beconsidered hunting practices,
but there are so many differentcommunities right that hunt
things that the rest of theglobal North probably thinks is
wrong to hunt.
I think about the whalingpractices of the Pacific
Northwest where, you know, in myown community, there's a huge
(32:38):
resurgence of bison harvesting.
We obviously don't hunt them howwe used to hunt them
historically, but we now canharvest an entire bison.
Now can harvest an entire bison.
And there are amazing I callthem artists, but they're
amazing artists and culturebearers who are figuring out
(33:00):
what we do with everything inthe bison from the bile to the
heart, to the lungs, to theintestines, to the hooves, and
so I do think there is a waythat we can do this, and I think
it's also tapping into thenetworks that already exist and
just starting to ask thosequestions and ask how we can be
(33:22):
a part of those questions andhow we can be a part of these
conversations, of thisintersection I think of a
changing climate and thentapping into this history and
legacy of our own huntingpractices and then how then to
support each other.
I think it's just trying tofind the right conversation to
have with the right people, butI think there are lots of
(33:46):
opportunities to do that.
Would you say that, heidi?
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Yeah, I would agree.
I mean, I think like right nowis such a good time globally
where I think a lot of us areeager to sort of shed all of
this imperialistic, colonialistimposition on ourselves and on
our people and really leaninginto and recognizing our own
autonomy and our power and ourstrength and reclaiming our
(34:11):
voices and reclaiming ourterritories, reclaiming our
language, our land and so on.
I guess for me, one of thethings that I can think of too,
at least among Indigenous folksfrom, say, North America and
Pacific, is, I think thatthere's also education, if you
will, Pacific is, I think thatthere's also education, if you
(34:34):
will, that needs to happen, andreaffirming or reasserting the
fact that there are otherIndigenous people, like in
places like Kyrgyzstan, and thatwe need to recognize that and
that we need to also be insolidarity with people who we
might not necessarily initiallyrecognize as Indigenous.
And a lot of this is the resultof having come from failed
(34:55):
educational systems and it isn'ta reflection of any type of
inherent racism or superioritythat folks might assume is the
case.
Truly it's because we've all,in the United States at least.
Truly it's because we've all inthe United States at least, had
such patchy educationalbackgrounds.
So, yeah, I believe that inorder to strengthen these ties
(35:20):
and to incite a largerconversation among global
Indigenous communities at leastin the communities that I'm from
we also need to just be awareand create that awareness, and I
believe a part of that isthrough education and through
these types of culturalexchanges that the Nomadic Art
Camp is creating.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
I was always thinking if, for example, nomadic Art
Camp can be good for to developand create collaboration between
global indigenous people,because I'm always trying to
find some example from differentother countries, if there is
(36:04):
some place or some project whichcan be like an example for
where people can come and talkabout this.
Indigenous can come fromdifferent countries, indigenous
communities, artists, and try tofind way how we can develop our
exchange.
(36:24):
Also for me also question howwe can continue the cultural and
artistic exchange betweenNative American and the Kyrgyz
artists.
Of course in Kyrgyzstan it ispossible that I will try always
invite Native American artists.
But do you think it's possibleif you can develop, kind of say,
(36:49):
nomadic art?
It could be different name, butin American land, in some place
in the desert, we can bring alsomaybe yurt or maybe build
something and other things, butmaybe could be a different model
.
That is, kyrgyz or differentartists can go to America also
and making more like a closerexchange.
(37:12):
Also see feeling this place,feeling nature, feeling local
indigenous communities and metalking with people.
So it will be more close whenpeople in different territories.
They feel more clear andsensitive they feel more, more
(37:34):
clear.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
It's.
In sense, I do think this modelthat you've created is something
that you could apply in manyother places, and I think that
other global indigenouscommunities, not just native
americans, would be open orreceptive to hosting a nomadic
art camp in their own homelands,because you've created the
model and it's like over 10years old right, it's like 14,
(37:56):
15 years old.
You have the framework and it'sat the very basic sort of
foundational level ofunderstanding what this is.
It's like.
Really, you've created a spacefor people to come, to come
together and to haveconversations and to share time
with one another, and in thisrespect, you're placing a more
focused emphasis on Nativepeople, on Indigenous
(38:18):
communities, and as Nativepeople here, we love to get
together with each other and so,yeah, of course, I mean, I
think that the model that you'vecreated is something that can
be applied in our own homelandsand I think that that would be a
really powerful and effectiveway of, on one hand, sustaining
this relationship with CentralAsia and with you and with
(38:41):
Kyrgyzstan, but also in seeinghow it can also evolve and
change into its own thing rightin these other homelands.
I think it's a very realisticproposal.
I think it's something thatmost communities would be
interested in, and I think it'sreally beautiful.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
And there are I don't know how many different tribal
nations in the United States andnot including Canada, but I
think yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Over 500.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Yeah right, there's over 500 tribal nations, so I
think we could get some folks onboard that would want to host
and bring Central Asian artiststo visit our homelands.
I'm also thinking back to whenthe hashtag no DAPL you know,
the standoff against the DakotaAccess Pipeline happened in 2016
(39:35):
, 2017.
There were Central Asiancommunities that sent yurts to
the encampments at Standing Rock.
So I think there's already thispull for this global
collaboration, for this globalcollaboration, this global
conversation about how we cansupport each other through
(39:55):
artistic practices, throughresistance, through just being
relational, and I know there areso many people in my community
that are in my own family.
My uncle was like sign me up,though, and my mom was like they
could put a year in ourbackyard, so she's everyone's
very excited about the potentialfor this, for these
(40:16):
conversations across the globe.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Yes, I think it was a very good start this year
project.
I hope we can develop and createsomething more closer
cooperation between ourindigenous communities and
especially we need to alsoinclude a young generation and
(40:41):
because nomadic art can havealso educational aspect, they
can learn young people andanyway we need to give this
knowledge to the younggeneration because they will
continue what they are doing ina new way, with a new idea and
with the global engineers, ofcourse.
This is very important becausein this situation in the world
(41:05):
climate change and this isdifferent War and conflict
everywhere we need, of course,we need to use our art In the
everywhere we need, of course,we need to use our art.
In the end, of course, we needto show this art in different
places.
This is why we are now tryingto to get in central asia
possibility for the futureexhibition with you and with you
(41:27):
also artists from the age ofamerican artists in kyrgyzstan
and in Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan, but it's, of course, need time
and they need a little bitpreparation, also responding, I
hope, in America also.
It is right what I telling?
Or you see this differently,how you think?
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, I mean I feel like you know using art as a
catalyst for initiating theseconversations and sustaining
them and also as a means forestablishing relationships.
I mean, you know this becauseyou've been doing this work for
so many years.
It's a really powerful deviceand I think, obviously, that
bridging this project with sortof a creative or artistic
(42:12):
component and which couldeventually lead to an exhibition
or probably multipleexhibitions over time, I think
is a really smart move.
I think one of the things thatcame out of my time there, and
especially in my conversationswith Clementine, is really
refocusing our obsession withWestern markets, if you will, or
(42:33):
the West in general,recentering this on communities
such as Central Asia and, ofcourse, in Indigenous
communities, I think globallyright now, in terms of Native
art, we're really in a veryunique period right now.
I was telling a friend of minewhen I came back from the Venice
Biennale.
Jeff Gibson is representing theUnited States and he's a Native
(42:54):
artist and it's the first timein the history of the US and
like our participation in theBiennale, that something like
this has happened.
And I was really proud and Icame back and I remember having
meeting up with some friends andjust telling them.
I'm like you know, this is suchan amazing time right now for
Native people to be alive.
We are really living in such anamazing time and we have to
(43:14):
take a moment to really feelthat, we have to know that, we
have to talk about it, we haveto acknowledge it, and I think
to have these conversationsabout the possibility of hosting
exhibitions that highlightthese collaborations between,
say, central Asian artists andNative American artists and
Native Hawaiian artists andglobal Indigenous folks is
really powerful and that wereally need to sort of be a part
(43:38):
of this like kind of momentumthat's happening globally, where
, again, we're moving away fromthis dependence on and kind of
reliance on, western models thatare existing, that have always
dominated art, and reallyasserting our own ways of
knowing and understanding andmoving about in the world.
So, yes, I feel like this is areally great idea and I think
it's something that's entirelypossible and, yeah, I support
(44:01):
this.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
I also think that, because we are in this I don't
know what else renaissance, thatwe can have large global stages
, but we could also I mean, Iknow so many community-based
galleries across tribalcommunities here in the United
States that would be more thanhappy to host Central Asian
artists and have thisconversation across tribal
(44:25):
communities.
And so I think there are so manyopportunities that we could tap
into again, just kind ofleaning on our networks and
finding the places that arereally eager to have these
conversations.
And I have a lot of colleaguesthat are really interested in
these global Indigenousconversations.
And so you found us at theperfect time, sharbuck, to have
(44:48):
these conversations and to tapinto our networks.
And I think there are a lot ofus that are really ready to
figure out how to break campwith the global north and set up
our own camp together.
And I think that's what wereally need to work towards is
(45:08):
to figure out how we can sharecamp and not worry so much about
the West and their camps, buthow we can ensure that we're
supporting each other's campsand in whatever way feels good
for us, so that we're not havingto turn ourselves inside out to
please someone that at the endof the day, doesn't really care
(45:29):
about us, but I think we astribal people care about each
other in a particular way, soI'm excited about that potential
of supporting artists indifferent spaces and and however
that art might look.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
I'm also excited about that too yes, you are
right, and because I I am happythat we have similar thinking
and I feel like we have verygood solidarity and we will
develop in the right wayindigenous issues and be with us
and create kind of manifestofor these indigenous global
(46:04):
issues, which I think will bevery good for everybody who is
thinking of still keeping thesesources, these roots, these
(46:24):
heritage traditions.
Which is important is important.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
The Collective Spirit podcast is produced by First
Peoples Fund, whose mission isto honor and support Indigenous
artists and culture bearersthrough grant-making initiatives
, culturally rooted programming,and training and mentorship.
Learn more atfirstpeoplesfundorg.
You know, this is such an amazing time right now
for Native people to be alive.
We are really living in such anamazing time and we have to
take a moment to really feelthat.
We have to know that, we haveto talk about it, we have to
acknowledge it and I think tohave these conversations about
the possibility of hostingexhibitions that highlight these
collaborations between globalIndigenous folks is really
(00:25):
powerful and that we really needto be a part of this momentum
that's happening globally.
First Peoples Fund presents theCollective Spirit Podcast.
The collective spirit moveseach of us to stand up and make
a difference, to pass onancestral knowledge and simply
(00:48):
extend a hand of generosity.
The Collective Spirit podcastfeatures Native artists and
culture bearers who discuss thepower of Indigenous art and
culture.
Hello and thank you for tuningin to the Collective Spirit
(01:10):
podcast.
This episode is the second partof our two-part series on global
indigeneity and the role of art.
We're featuring a conversationwith Sharbek Amankul, a
multidisciplinary IndigenousKyrgyz artist and the founder
and director of the Nomadic ArtCamp.
Established in 2011, theNomadic Art Camp was created to
(01:33):
connect artists from around theworld with Central Asia's rich
art, culture and landscapes,with a special focus on Kyrgyz
traditional nomadic life as asource of inspiration for
contemporary, globally relevantart practices.
Joining Sharbek in thisconversation is Sichangu Lakota
artist and scholar, clementineBordeaux, who grew up on the
(01:56):
Pine Ridge Reservation in SouthDakota.
Clementine holds a PhD fromUCLA and is also involved with
Racing Magpie, a Lakota-centeredarts and culture organization
based in Rapid City, southDakota.
And finally, you'll also hearfrom me, heidi Brandau, a Diné,
and Kanaka Maoli,multidisciplinary artist, 2018
(02:17):
First Peoples Fund Artist andBusiness Leadership Fellow and
current Associate Director ofCommunications at First Peoples
Fund.
We hope you enjoy this episodeand invite you to visit the
companion blog on thefirstpeoplesfundorg website,
which highlights firsthandexperiences from the inaugural
cohort of Native Americanartists at the Nomadic Art Camp
(02:40):
in Kyrgyzstan camp in Kyrgyzstan.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Thank you very much, Heidi, for inviting me to this
interesting meeting and thankyou to Clementine to join us.
And I'm very happy to talk aboutthis because for many years I
was trying to get in contactwith Native American artists and
this year it happened.
My interest was always to getto find some similarity and
(03:11):
differences between ourdifferent communities from
Kyrgyzstan and America, and nowI'm always asking myself if the
DCBC, our old history, andduring this nomadic art camp I
saw some similarities in feelingconnection to the nature, to
(03:31):
the earth, to the traditions,which was for me very
interesting and this is why Ithink the artists from different
continents, from America andfrom Central Asia, especially
from Kyrgyzstan, we try todevelop kind of cooperation and
collaboration for long term andgiving this possibility also for
(03:54):
many other artists, includingnew generations.
And I would like to ask youwhat do you feel when you were
in Kyrgyzstan?
What did you feel when you werein Kyrgyzstan?
How was your time in Kyrgyzstanwhen you met local people and
you see nature, you see howlocal people, community related
(04:15):
to the land, to nature, toanimals, to the life, and what
was?
Speaker 3 (04:24):
your impression.
My biggest impression of beingin Kyrgyzstan was the rural
aspect of it all.
So I grew up on a tribalreservation in South Dakota
which has maybe 10,000 peoplethat live in a very large space
of land in the northern plainsof what is now the United States
(04:48):
.
For me there was a lot ofsimilarities.
Even though I didn't know thelanguage and I've never been to
Kyrgyz communities, it felt veryfamiliar to me.
Where I grew up, you have todrive very long distances to get
anywhere.
There's a lot of kind of laidback communal space and
(05:09):
experiences and exchanges acrossfamilies, and so I think, aside
from culturally, there are somedifferences, but I think being
on the land and traveling youknow we were driving hours every
day to see different things itreminded me of just being back
on my tribal reservation and andI think I've been processing a
(05:32):
lot since we returned home ofthinking about being nomadic,
more so as a mindset and notnecessarily, you know, because
so many of our communities areturning to urban spaces and
moving to cities and in a placelike the United States right, I
think over, I think it's like60% of tribal people now live in
cities I think we have to startthinking about being nomadic as
(05:56):
a, as a mindset, and being ableto travel a lot and visit
different people andexperiencing different things
across distances, but stillcarrying who we are as tribal
people.
And so my impressions were thatit felt like home in a
particular way, because that'show I grew up and being able to
(06:18):
just go from place to place,travel long distances, but also
just everywhere you knowsomebody and everywhere you're
like meeting old friends ormeeting new relatives, and I
think that's kind of what itfelt like to travel with you
Sharbeck is I've you would justroll up to someone's house and
be like we're going to talkabout this and we're going to do
(06:39):
this and I I just felt like Iwas traveling with a relative
that was taking me to visit likeall his cool friends, and
that's why I feel like, when Icome home, like I'm going to
visit family or friends, andsometimes I'm going to new
places on different reservationsor in different tribal lands.
That's how it felt for me.
It felt very familiar.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, I would agree and I would say you know I was
writing about some of this.
Schaubach had asked for aresponse and I was just looking
at it again and the vastness ofthe land and sort of witnessing
communities and people living inthese rural settings but also
tending to their livestock alsowas very familiar because, like
(07:22):
you, our homelands are alsosimilar, was very familiar
because, like you, our homelandsare also similar.
I think Navajos in particular,we don't live like Pueblos in
that we live far away from eachother and I often you know,
because in Hawaii it's also verymuch the opposite and Pueblos
primarily.
So I resonate a lot with thesemore communal settings but
(07:42):
seeing that also reminded me ofthe Navajo Nation and sort of
how we are so distant from oneanother in these like vast
settings.
But seeing that also remindedme of the Navajo Nation and sort
of how we are so distant fromone another in these vast
landscapes, but also feelinglike this deep sense of freedom
and belonging to the land amongthe people maybe not necessarily
for myself and that thestillness and that quiet freedom
felt like a form of resistancein and of itself and I also
really love what you mentionedabout that.
(08:05):
We have to, to some degree,adopt this mentality of being in
this kind of nomadic mindset.
So, whether we're being nomadsby our own choices or if we're
being forced to relocate foreconomic reasons, I think one of
the things that we'reexperiencing a lot in our Native
communities is having to leavefor jobs, sometimes maybe
(08:28):
leaving for opportunities likeschool.
I think, more and more nowwe're also seeing globally the
necessity of having to benomadic because of climate
change.
So our world is changing and,in fact, this necessity of
adopting or being part ofnomadic society, I think, is a
very relevant conversation.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Okay, thank you very much.
You know, in this project,which is a critical ingredient
of this project, it was used ina traditional nomadic way or
life of the current nomads inthe Naren area and in the
Sikulia area, the Kyrgyz nomadsin the Naryn area and in the
(09:09):
Sikulia area, which is in theSikulia lakes, and as a source
of inspiration for contemporaryart practices.
So this was why we visiteddifferent places and Kyrgyz
culture is normally related tothe horse culture.
Without horses, kyrgyz is notKyrgyz.
This is always with horse.
So, and this is why people inKyrgyzstan still using the
(09:33):
nomadic way, when this is,especially from springtime to
autumn time, they go to pasture,to the high mountain with a lot
of animals, and you saw a lotof how many animals there from
different horses, cows, yaks,sheep, goats.
In this project, I try to focusthat this nomadism is not solely
(09:57):
viewed as a physical journey,but also as a metaphor for life,
ongoing exploration, symbolicdiscovery, change and growth.
This is why it is veryimportant for artists to feel
this and understand, to getinspiration from these new
(10:17):
places, from new territories,and I hope, of course, that you,
when you are staying inRomantic, you are fully equipped
for individual art projects.
I hope, of course, that you,while you were staying in
nomadic youth, were looking forindividual art projects and
exploring local nature and thisrich history, spirituality and
heritage, including traditionalnomadism, shamanism and, you see
(10:39):
, nomad, soviet and moderncapitalistic culture which is
now as a Kyrgyzstan.
And what was your biggestinspiration?
What you saw there duringnomadic camp in Kyrgyzstan and
what you can remember, whattouched you?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
for me.
You know, we did have all theseexperiences across these
different territories and ourartistic and creative practices
and, honestly, my well, asidefrom the eagle, of course,
meeting all the eagles was veryprofound and beautiful, but I
have a really intimateconnection with rocks, so being
(11:21):
able to see the differentmountains and land and the rocks
that we've met along the waywhile I was there I don't know
if I might have shared this withyou, heidi, but I know I don't
think I shared this with you,sharbeck, but I was having
dreams of bringing rocks from myhome to Kyrgyzstan, and so for
(11:43):
me, that was the, and I've beenthinking a lot about our
relationship with rocks andstones and cause we have here in
my community we have a lot ofconversations and stories about
our creation and how we comefrom stones and we come from
rocks, and so being able to seethe land in that particular way
(12:04):
and to hold rocks and to be andto see the art also that was
reflected in from the magicstones and the rocks there was
really really profound for meand it has has been something
that I've been thinking about alot, and so I just I love rocks
and I know that probably soundssilly to non-tribal people, but
(12:25):
they're so important to us and Iknow they're very important to
you all too so that for me itwas being able to just see the
land and be a part of the land.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
You know, I can't remember which number of day it
was, like what day it was interms of was it the fourth day,
was it the fifth day but I knowthat we had stayed in the
village home and I rememberSharp Ek had asked us at dinner
what was the most touching thingso far, like what is your
impression of our experiences sofar on this trip?
(12:57):
And we were all kind of goingaround the table and like
sharing something at the tableand I remember that I felt
overwhelmed with emotion in thatmoment, just because, like I
know that up until that moment Ithink we had been to Tashrabat,
naran and so on and we had justgotten to Issyk-Kul.
But I think the most touchingthing for me at that moment and
(13:20):
it really kind of stuckthroughout the entire duration
was, I think it was the land andwitnessing sort of, the vast
expanse of the land and not toover-romanticize the people who
are living in these rural areas,but to see the still like close
relationship with these animalsand also just sensing you,
sharpek, as our host, a deepsense of pride in sharing these
(13:43):
things with us and I feel likethat, those thingsck, as our
host, a deep sense of pride insharing these things with us and
I feel like that those thingscombined, they're really
powerful.
It also made me think about alot of things we have lost in my
own community, seeing, forexample, like this relationship
with horses.
A week before I had left thecountry, there was a story in
the Navajo Times which is likeour Navajo Nation newspaper.
(14:04):
There was a story in the NavajoTimes which is like our Navajo
Nation newspaper and they weretalking about horses, wild
horses and how on the NavajoNation there's a lot of wild
horses right now, to the extentthat it's almost becoming like a
problem.
And so they interviewed all ofthese like rancher guys, just
people in the community.
And I remember reading this orseeing this guy's response and
(14:27):
he's a rancher, he's Navajo, andhe was saying that he was upset
that people were siding withthe horses because he was like
these people.
They don't understand the kindof problems that these horses
are creating because they don'tlive here every day.
They shouldn't comment on itand they shouldn't have an
opinion on how we decide to takecare of this problem.
(14:48):
Quote, unquote problem which isto imply that his solution is
that they kill these horses.
And this is a guy from my owncommunity.
So to see this, it just made methink, like how we've lost these
waves.
So, in fact, the horse is notthe problem.
The problem is that we've lostthis connection.
So, in fact, the horse is notthe problem.
The problem is that we've lostthis connection to understanding
(15:08):
how to live with the horse andhow to work with the horse on
our lands, and so I think thatwas part of the witnessing all
of this.
I think that's I could even getemotional now.
I could cry, because these arereal issues and these are things
that are happening every day.
And you know, and you alsotalked about us visiting these
eagles, right, and we were sofortunate to visit them not once
(15:30):
, but technically like threetimes.
And I know, sharpek, probablythis could be like maybe a
novelty thing for you, becauseit's so like a regular part of
Kyrgyz people and culture, butagain, I mean, this is also for
us so exciting because we alsohave lost this closeness with
these animals, like we have acloseness in our heart, but I
(15:51):
mean the closeness of, like thisguy, the first one, I remember
he had the eagle close to hisface, you know, and was
basically nuzzling the eagle andto see this kind of exchange,
it's really touching.
Perhaps being a part of thesetypes of exchanges, or this one
in particular, is importantbecause I think it reignites
(16:11):
that type of recognition andrelationship with the land and
with people and animals and soon.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
What similarities do you see between the history of
Native Americans and Kyrgyzindigenous people in terms of
their relation with the land andespecially, of course, with the
similarities between artists,because we represent our
cultures and during this time,did you see some differences or
(16:44):
similarities between, especiallybetween us, between artists or
between persons?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
In our time in Kyrgyzstan, I saw many
similarities between artistsfrom Kyrgyzstan and I also saw
potential in.
What I'm interested in as anartist myself and as a scholar
(17:11):
is kind of this everydayexchange that we have with art
in our life and the way that weutilize creative practice to
communicate our relationship toa particular place.
And so I love the everyday.
So seeing the eagle huntersshow up with the eagle, like
chilling in the back seat withthe dog in the trunk, but then
(17:34):
you know they get out and theylike have this beautiful
demonstration with their eagle.
But I love those moments ofjust the everyday.
Or you know, as Heidi said,when we, when we went to visit
to try to set up a time to meetwith the eagles, and we got to
see there was what like three orfour of them and we were all
just in awe of these eagles.
(17:54):
For me, I feel art doesn't haveto be extraordinary to be
beautiful or connect us to placeto be beautiful or connect us
to place.
And I think I felt that a lotin what we were experiencing
while we were at the nomadic artcamp.
And I try to see that samething in my own community.
So often people who don't donot think of themselves as
(18:16):
artists are the people that I'mmost eager to talk to and to
engage with.
But also, I think, the everydayartist like going and visiting
the studio and seeing thestudents come in and the
students learning how to drawand the encouragement they were
getting from the instructor Ithink for me those spaces felt
(18:40):
again very familiar.
But also just the everydaycreation of art that would go
inside the yurt or materialculture that we wear.
I love seeing those things inaction that are also just.
They don't have to be in an artgallery, they should be able to
do both.
And I felt that a lot in theartists that we met the Kyrgios
(19:03):
artist that we met, and thenthat reflection that I saw in my
own community of just likeeveryday people but they also
are doing really beautiful,creative things that reflect
land, that reflect culture, thatreflect relationship, and so I
saw a lot of those similarities.
What about you, heidi?
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yes, same, I think, also something that I shared
briefly with Sharbeck, whichI'll include here, because
you're talking about theseeveryday things that often are.
The value is diminished becauseit's like, oh, this isn't in a
museum.
I guess another form of thatthat was really touching to me
too was food and the care thatwas involved in producing the
(19:49):
meals.
Every single meal that we atetogether was made by someone's
hands, like it was collected bysomeone's hands.
It was made by someone's hands,and so everything was made with
so much care and theingredients were good and we ate
well, like every day.
To me, those kind of things arereally high value and also a
(20:11):
form of art.
So to partake in something likethat every day as part of our
regular experience, I think wasreally touching.
But I think the same level ofcare is expressed through food
here and I think that's why Icould see that and relate to it
and really appreciate it,because it was something that I
think is easily it's likeinvisible labor and it's
(20:33):
something that maybe we take forgranted, but it definitely
wasn't.
It wasn't lost on me.
I was aware of the love andcare that was involved in all
the preparation and food that wepartook.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Thank you and I want a little bit to explain to you
about Nomadic Art Camp becausenormally if you see how it's,
local nomad people, pergispeople, they go to mountain, to
pasture, and from May till endof September and I also try to
make this project from May tillend of September and I also
tried to make this project fromMay till end of September, so
(21:09):
it's meaning we were inSeptember.
So in this case we didn't meetsome nomads who living in nature
with animals, there is no civilinfrastructure, it was really
wild nature, because alreadythere was in some pool, was road
closed because there wasalready snow.
(21:31):
And its meaning, depending onseason, nomadic Art Camp, if it
will be May or June or July orAugust or September, it is
different, different faces.
Artists can see these differentfaces from nature, from people,
from the surrounding, from land.
And, for example, when we wentto Bosovar pasture and then we
(21:55):
go direction to this Tashrabatdirection, you saw how many
animals were there, how manyhorses were in the free land and
I ask you, do you have somesame similarity how this is in
your land?
You have also a lot of horses ora lot of animals, and this is
(22:18):
animals just free, running, free, walking, and there are no
people who are looking for them.
They are just free, running,free, walking, and there are no
people who are looking for them.
They're just free.
But this is not all, not ineverywhere.
This is only special places inmountain area, which is really a
high mountain, where animalscan get their food.
(22:40):
And my question is do you feelsomething?
That is, if you have somethingin your land, how are animals
running free, or is this onlyfrom the past?
Speaker 1 (22:53):
I think it's like what I was talking about earlier
, just using the example ofhorses and how our relationship,
on the Navajo Nation at least,has shifted.
You know where these wildhorses there's a lot of them now
becoming a nuisance to somepeople rather than communities
seeing them as an asset and as arelative and as something that
(23:14):
we might need to remember orreconnect with understanding our
relationship.
It just seems really fractured.
So I can only speak of theNavajo Nation and in Hawaii.
In Hawaii it's so messed upright now Our indigenous animals
are really a lot of them are atrisk of being extinct, and it's
(23:35):
a really hard reality.
But it's a reality that I thinkreally mirrors what's happening
to Native Hawaiian people inour own homelands.
Initially, when Europeansarrived, my people were heavily
impacted by disease, and so youknow nearly 80%, if not more, of
Native Hawaiians upon contactwere lost to disease, and with
(23:57):
that came the loss of culture,language, traditions, and you
know so it severely impacted usin that initial encounter and
ever since then, I think, mypeople have been struggling.
Today, over 60% of NativeHawaiians don't even live in
Hawaii.
(24:17):
Most Native Hawaiians have hadto relocate or move because of
loss of access to land, economicreasons, maybe school, so many
different reasons but the factremains, which is that Native
Hawaiians are not in Hawaii andtherefore this is reflected in
the plants that are endemic toour homelands.
(24:38):
This is reflected also in theanimals that are endemic to
Hawaii as well.
So all of this to say that Iwas very much inspired by Kyrgyz
people and their relationshipto animals and also just seeing
the vast amount of animals, bothwild and domestic, and kind of
(24:59):
this ongoing connection andlivelihood that's involved with
living on the land and withthese animals, because, you know
, it's something that I think inmy community is definitely we
do have some things that arevery hopeful and inspiring as
well.
Don't get me wrong, but I dothink that the nomadic art camp
(25:20):
is unique in the sense that itcan provide that type of
experience to incite that typeof dialogue and this type of
inspiration that I hope otherNative folks can witness as well
, so that we can all kind oftake part of this experience and
bring back that type ofknowledge back home, because we
really need this.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
And I think for the Northern Plains, we have a lot
of domesticated animals.
They're not free range in thesense of how they are, I think,
in the more rural parts ofKyrgyzstan and there are efforts
to try to build ourrelationship again with the
(26:02):
bison, but right now a lot ofthe bison herds are managed or
co-managed by non-tribalentities.
And then we there's a lotranching is such a big thing in
my community when we were forcedonto reservations after the
(26:23):
signing of the 1868 treaty,there were ranchers and ranch
families who settled the Dakota,the Dakotas, north Dakota,
south Dakota, and they signedlike hundred year, 99 year
leases.
So we have, like these whiteranching families who now have
(26:47):
married into our tribalcommunities but still have this
mentality that they can just runtheir cattle on our lands.
So there's a lot of tension, Ithink, of how our relationship
is with cattle and then withhorses.
I think there's still abeautiful relationship with
horses, but probably not in thefree range that we saw while we
(27:09):
were in Kyrgyzstan, cause I havea lot of family and friends who
who raise horses and havereally intimate relationship
with with horses and we, youknow, are a horse now are a
horse community, but there.
It it's not what it used to beand I think, with and like
echoing Heidi and thedevastation that's happening in
(27:32):
Hawaii because of domesticatedanimals and domesticated people,
I think, similarly, like we,you know, we have, like the
black-footed ferret, we haveanimals that are on the verge of
extinction in our territory orat risk of, like, very dire
diseases.
We have small prairie dogs thatcarry the bubonic plague and
(27:54):
that's who the black footedferret eats, you know.
So there's this whole cycle ofdisease and, like Heidi said, I
think it's reflected in peopleand definitely reflected in the
land and our animal relatives.
So I think we definitely arestruggling to maintain those
connections and, yeah, I agreewith Heidi that there's so much
(28:17):
to learn from Kyrgyz people andhow they're able to sustain
these relationships together.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I want also a little bit talk about hunting, because
when you saw this eagle, also,this hunter told us that they
are normally hunting only inspecial time From spring till
October.
You cannot hunt because ofchildren, little babies from
(28:56):
these animals.
Only from wintertime you canhave some season where you can
hunt and also, if it's an eagle,normally hunters let it free.
After some years this eagle canget a family, can get a baby,
of course, can produce freedomalso.
(29:17):
This is also important aspectwhich how people related to the
nature, to the animals, tosurrounding, because normally if
you see how nomad people go topasture and then bring yurt and
then they go back and then bringyurt and then they go back,
they're taking yurt.
There are no buildings, nostrong buildings.
(29:38):
The animals are not destroyed.
Everything you saw from animals, some things, all they're using
for life, and there are no, nological things.
This is why us artists are alsolearning how, in old time,
people are using thistraditional wisdom, traditional
(30:01):
knowledge, and this is, I think,important also for us, for
artists to use this, to learnand to give this important
aspect for the new generationthat also can save this.
And I saw also that Americannative artists using.
I mean using or show in theirartworks a lot of, a lot of
(30:27):
sources from their culturalheritage, from traditions, and
this is also important for me,because your art communities
still have this feeling, a deepfeeling for sources, and even if
(30:49):
you have not some like in oldtime, free, where the animals
can go freely around thedifferent nature, your
collective memory have this,that this artist as a
transformer.
They show this through theirart.
This is a very important aspectand, of course, for the future
(31:11):
generation also, to find our ownway in this contemporary art
and about this solidarity andsupport between indigenous
people globally.
And I was thinking how todevelop this idea and what do
you think about this.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
I think there is a really important conversation
that's happening right nowbetween climate change, art and
food practices.
There are organizationsglobally that are trying to have
this conversation andunfortunately they're not.
They're just now trying toinclude tribal communities in
(31:52):
those conversations.
But I think this is the perfecttime in the world right now to
have this conversation about howwe can brainstorm across
communities I don't know whatelse to call it but to think
through how we sustain ourpractice, our food practices and
(32:16):
our hunt right, which would beconsidered hunting practices,
but there are so many differentcommunities right that hunt
things that the rest of theglobal North probably thinks is
wrong to hunt.
I think about the whalingpractices of the Pacific
Northwest where, you know, in myown community, there's a huge
(32:38):
resurgence of bison harvesting.
We obviously don't hunt them howwe used to hunt them
historically, but we now canharvest an entire bison.
Now can harvest an entire bison.
And there are amazing I callthem artists, but they're
amazing artists and culturebearers who are figuring out
(33:00):
what we do with everything inthe bison from the bile to the
heart, to the lungs, to theintestines, to the hooves, and
so I do think there is a waythat we can do this, and I think
it's also tapping into thenetworks that already exist and
just starting to ask thosequestions and ask how we can be
(33:22):
a part of those questions andhow we can be a part of these
conversations, of thisintersection I think of a
changing climate and thentapping into this history and
legacy of our own huntingpractices and then how then to
support each other.
I think it's just trying tofind the right conversation to
have with the right people, butI think there are lots of
(33:46):
opportunities to do that.
Would you say that, heidi?
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Yeah, I would agree.
I mean, I think like right nowis such a good time globally
where I think a lot of us areeager to sort of shed all of
this imperialistic, colonialistimposition on ourselves and on
our people and really leaninginto and recognizing our own
autonomy and our power and ourstrength and reclaiming our
(34:11):
voices and reclaiming ourterritories, reclaiming our
language, our land and so on.
I guess for me, one of thethings that I can think of too,
at least among Indigenous folksfrom, say, North America and
Pacific, is, I think thatthere's also education, if you
will, Pacific is, I think thatthere's also education, if you
(34:34):
will, that needs to happen, andreaffirming or reasserting the
fact that there are otherIndigenous people, like in
places like Kyrgyzstan, and thatwe need to recognize that and
that we need to also be insolidarity with people who we
might not necessarily initiallyrecognize as Indigenous.
And a lot of this is the resultof having come from failed
(34:55):
educational systems and it isn'ta reflection of any type of
inherent racism or superioritythat folks might assume is the
case.
Truly it's because we've all,in the United States at least.
Truly it's because we've all inthe United States at least, had
such patchy educationalbackgrounds.
So, yeah, I believe that inorder to strengthen these ties
(35:20):
and to incite a largerconversation among global
Indigenous communities at leastin the communities that I'm from
we also need to just be awareand create that awareness, and I
believe a part of that isthrough education and through
these types of culturalexchanges that the Nomadic Art
Camp is creating.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
I was always thinking if, for example, nomadic Art
Camp can be good for to developand create collaboration between
global indigenous people,because I'm always trying to
find some example from differentother countries, if there is
(36:04):
some place or some project whichcan be like an example for
where people can come and talkabout this.
Indigenous can come fromdifferent countries, indigenous
communities, artists, and try tofind way how we can develop our
exchange.
(36:24):
Also for me also question howwe can continue the cultural and
artistic exchange betweenNative American and the Kyrgyz
artists.
Of course in Kyrgyzstan it ispossible that I will try always
invite Native American artists.
But do you think it's possibleif you can develop, kind of say,
(36:49):
nomadic art?
It could be different name, butin American land, in some place
in the desert, we can bring alsomaybe yurt or maybe build
something and other things, butmaybe could be a different model
.
That is, kyrgyz or differentartists can go to America also
and making more like a closerexchange.
(37:12):
Also see feeling this place,feeling nature, feeling local
indigenous communities and metalking with people.
So it will be more close whenpeople in different territories.
They feel more clear andsensitive they feel more, more
(37:34):
clear.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
It's.
In sense, I do think this modelthat you've created is something
that you could apply in manyother places, and I think that
other global indigenouscommunities, not just native
americans, would be open orreceptive to hosting a nomadic
art camp in their own homelands,because you've created the
model and it's like over 10years old right, it's like 14,
(37:56):
15 years old.
You have the framework and it'sat the very basic sort of
foundational level ofunderstanding what this is.
It's like.
Really, you've created a spacefor people to come, to come
together and to haveconversations and to share time
with one another, and in thisrespect, you're placing a more
focused emphasis on Nativepeople, on Indigenous
(38:18):
communities, and as Nativepeople here, we love to get
together with each other and so,yeah, of course, I mean, I
think that the model that you'vecreated is something that can
be applied in our own homelandsand I think that that would be a
really powerful and effectiveway of, on one hand, sustaining
this relationship with CentralAsia and with you and with
(38:41):
Kyrgyzstan, but also in seeinghow it can also evolve and
change into its own thing rightin these other homelands.
I think it's a very realisticproposal.
I think it's something thatmost communities would be
interested in, and I think it'sreally beautiful.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
And there are I don't know how many different tribal
nations in the United States andnot including Canada, but I
think yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Over 500.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Yeah right, there's over 500 tribal nations, so I
think we could get some folks onboard that would want to host
and bring Central Asian artiststo visit our homelands.
I'm also thinking back to whenthe hashtag no DAPL you know,
the standoff against the DakotaAccess Pipeline happened in 2016
(39:35):
, 2017.
There were Central Asiancommunities that sent yurts to
the encampments at Standing Rock.
So I think there's already thispull for this global
collaboration, for this globalcollaboration, this global
conversation about how we cansupport each other through
(39:55):
artistic practices, throughresistance, through just being
relational, and I know there areso many people in my community
that are in my own family.
My uncle was like sign me up,though, and my mom was like they
could put a year in ourbackyard, so she's everyone's
very excited about the potentialfor this, for these
(40:16):
conversations across the globe.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Yes, I think it was a very good start this year
project.
I hope we can develop and createsomething more closer
cooperation between ourindigenous communities and
especially we need to alsoinclude a young generation and
(40:41):
because nomadic art can havealso educational aspect, they
can learn young people andanyway we need to give this
knowledge to the younggeneration because they will
continue what they are doing ina new way, with a new idea and
with the global engineers, ofcourse.
This is very important becausein this situation in the world
(41:05):
climate change and this isdifferent War and conflict
everywhere we need, of course,we need to use our art In the
everywhere we need, of course,we need to use our art.
In the end, of course, we needto show this art in different
places.
This is why we are now tryingto to get in central asia
possibility for the futureexhibition with you and with you
(41:27):
also artists from the age ofamerican artists in kyrgyzstan
and in Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan, but it's, of course, need time
and they need a little bitpreparation, also responding, I
hope, in America also.
It is right what I telling?
Or you see this differently,how you think?
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, I mean I feel like you know using art as a
catalyst for initiating theseconversations and sustaining
them and also as a means forestablishing relationships.
I mean, you know this becauseyou've been doing this work for
so many years.
It's a really powerful deviceand I think, obviously, that
bridging this project with sortof a creative or artistic
(42:12):
component and which couldeventually lead to an exhibition
or probably multipleexhibitions over time, I think
is a really smart move.
I think one of the things thatcame out of my time there, and
especially in my conversationswith Clementine, is really
refocusing our obsession withWestern markets, if you will, or
(42:33):
the West in general,recentering this on communities
such as Central Asia and, ofcourse, in Indigenous
communities, I think globallyright now, in terms of Native
art, we're really in a veryunique period right now.
I was telling a friend of minewhen I came back from the Venice
Biennale.
Jeff Gibson is representing theUnited States and he's a Native
(42:54):
artist and it's the first timein the history of the US and
like our participation in theBiennale, that something like
this has happened.
And I was really proud and Icame back and I remember having
meeting up with some friends andjust telling them.
I'm like you know, this is suchan amazing time right now for
Native people to be alive.
We are really living in such anamazing time and we have to
(43:14):
take a moment to really feelthat, we have to know that, we
have to talk about it, we haveto acknowledge it, and I think
to have these conversationsabout the possibility of hosting
exhibitions that highlightthese collaborations between,
say, central Asian artists andNative American artists and
Native Hawaiian artists andglobal Indigenous folks is
really powerful and that wereally need to sort of be a part
(43:38):
of this like kind of momentumthat's happening globally, where
, again, we're moving away fromthis dependence on and kind of
reliance on, western models thatare existing, that have always
dominated art, and reallyasserting our own ways of
knowing and understanding andmoving about in the world.
So, yes, I feel like this is areally great idea and I think
it's something that's entirelypossible and, yeah, I support
(44:01):
this.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
I also think that, because we are in this I don't
know what else renaissance, thatwe can have large global stages
, but we could also I mean, Iknow so many community-based
galleries across tribalcommunities here in the United
States that would be more thanhappy to host Central Asian
artists and have thisconversation across tribal
(44:25):
communities.
And so I think there are so manyopportunities that we could tap
into again, just kind ofleaning on our networks and
finding the places that arereally eager to have these
conversations.
And I have a lot of colleaguesthat are really interested in
these global Indigenousconversations.
And so you found us at theperfect time, sharbuck, to have
(44:48):
these conversations and to tapinto our networks.
And I think there are a lot ofus that are really ready to
figure out how to break campwith the global north and set up
our own camp together.
And I think that's what wereally need to work towards is
(45:08):
to figure out how we can sharecamp and not worry so much about
the West and their camps, buthow we can ensure that we're
supporting each other's campsand in whatever way feels good
for us, so that we're not havingto turn ourselves inside out to
please someone that at the endof the day, doesn't really care
(45:29):
about us, but I think we astribal people care about each
other in a particular way, soI'm excited about that potential
of supporting artists indifferent spaces and and however
that art might look.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
I'm also excited about that too yes, you are
right, and because I I am happythat we have similar thinking
and I feel like we have verygood solidarity and we will
develop in the right wayindigenous issues and be with us
and create kind of manifestofor these indigenous global
(46:04):
issues, which I think will bevery good for everybody who is
thinking of still keeping thesesources, these roots, these
(46:24):
heritage traditions.
Which is important is important.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
The Collective Spirit podcast is produced by First
Peoples Fund, whose mission isto honor and support Indigenous
artists and culture bearersthrough grant-making initiatives
, culturally rooted programming,and training and mentorship.
Learn more atfirstpeoplesfundorg.
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