April 24, 2025 • 47 mins
In this episode of the Collective Spirit Podcast, we sit down with Terran Last Gun (Piikani Nation), a 2020 Artist in Business Fellow and multidisciplinary artist. Terran shares the roots of his creative journey, the influence of family and community, and how he's transforming the traditions of ledger art into bold, contemporary expressions. Tune in for a vibrant conversation on innovation, cultural continuity, and the ever-evolving power of Indigenous art.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
And I just really respect and appreciate they were
interpreting our surroundingsin these geometric forms, and so
that's what I'm doing.
I'm just creating newinterpretations, new geometric
forms and really, yeah, that'swhat I'm sharing with my
audience, with anyone, you know,whoever wants to see my work
(00:24):
and learn more about it.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
First People's Fund presents the Collective Spirit
Podcast.
The Collective Spirit moveseach of us to stand up and make
a difference, to pass onancestral knowledge and simply
extend a hand of generosity.
The Collective Spirit Podcastfeatures Native artists and
culture bearers who discuss thepower of Indigenous art and
(00:54):
culture.
Welcome to the CollectiveSpirit Podcast, where we explore
the stories, practices andcreative journeys of Indigenous
artists and culture bearers.
In this episode, we sit downwith Taryn Lastgun, a Pekani or
(01:18):
Blackfeet artist whose vibrantand dynamic work pushes the
boundaries of Pekani modernism.
Based in Santa Fe, new Mexico,taryn draws inspiration from
land, cosmos and culturalnarratives, working across
printmaking, ledger art andphotography to shape a
contemporary Indigenous visuallanguage.
(01:39):
A 2020 First Peoples FundArtist in Business Leadership
Fellow and recipient of the 2024Louis Comfort Tiffany
Foundation Biennial Award, tarynhas exhibited his work in
museums and galleries across thecountry.
Today we'll dive into hiscreative process, how he
navigates the evolving art worldand how he remains grounded in
(02:02):
his roots, family and community,while forging new paths in
Indigenous art.
Stay tuned for an inspiringconversation.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Hello everyone.
Hello Heidi, thank you forhaving me today.
My name is Taryn Laskin.
I'm from the Pikani Nation,also known as the Blackfeet
Nation of Montana.
We're members of the BlackfootConfederacy, which includes
three other nations from CanadaGhana, siksika and Bikani.
So just to give some contextinto my background and where I
(02:41):
come from, the Bikani people ofMontana are Blackfeet of Montana
.
We got split in half and sothat's why there's a Bikani in
Canada as well.
So I like to point that out,just to make clear that you know
we were the same people, but wejust got split due to the
Canadian-US border.
(03:02):
So when I talk about thingsrelated to my culture, I'll
often say you know BlackfootPainted Lodges, or even my
Blackfoot name when I introducedmyself is Sakwena Makka, which
means Laskan.
It was my great-great-grandpa,dick Kipps.
One of his Blackfoot names thatwas transferred to me when I
was about 10 years old, so Ihave a lot of respect for that
(03:23):
name and carrying that on for myfamily.
I was born and raised inBrowning, montana.
That's pretty much the capitalof my nation, bikini Nation, and
I've been living in Santa Feand working since 2011.
Came here to attend Instituteof American Indian Arts and I
(03:46):
finished up there in 2016 with aBFA in museum studies and AFA
in studio arts and havecontinued to live down here in
Santa Fe.
The medium you know there'svarious mediums I work with.
I consider myself a visualartist, working with different
media such as printmaking,painting, and you know more.
(04:08):
Currently, in my primary mediumis ledger drawing, but within
each of these mediums I'm usingsort of this very similar visual
language that I've developedover the years and so I've, you
know, whatever medium it mightbe, I'm approaching it kind of
(04:28):
the same way as the other mediumor previous.
So, yeah, that's what I'm doingnow is just ledger drawing,
which is using these antiquedocuments, just regular ledger
sheets, ledger notebook paper.
Some of its government typepaper, municipality, county,
(04:50):
city documents and other stuffis like hotel registrar register
or, like I don't know, bingocards.
Most of it is from the early1900s up into the mid 1900s,
1950s, but also sometimes thepaper I'm using is even older
(05:12):
than that late 1800s, like 1889.
And then I'm also using coloredpencils, and so I use three high
quality colored pencil brandswhole bind, which is probably my
favorite.
That's the one I use the mostbecause it's super velvety.
Uh, favor castel, which is thesecond one I use the most.
(05:33):
And then pablo uh, pablo colorpencils.
They're very like hard tips, sousing them it takes a lot more.
I mean, you could feel like thehow, how much longer it takes
to fill in a space with thatcolored pencil brand versus
Holbein, which is just kind offills in a lot quicker and
(05:53):
easier to apply.
But those are the.
Those are like the materialsI'm using.
And then archival micron pens.
So that's.
You know, each ledger drawingstarts with line work and it's
all about the line work in thebeginning and then after that
it's all about filling it in,selecting color and then filling
it in.
But you know, that's, that'swho I am, that's where I'm from,
(06:15):
that's where you know I current, where I'm currently living,
the mediums I'm working in and,yeah, just happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I'm wondering if, if we, you could just share a
little bit about you know, howyou got introduced to ledger
drawing and maybe also include alittle bit about like how if
I'm not mistaken, it soundedlike when you initially had
attended iaia you were reallylike doing the museum track and
(06:43):
then things kind of shifted.
So if you could just talk alittle bit about you know, your
introduction to the medium andthen also how things might have
shifted as you progressed inyour education.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Yeah, totally.
So I got introduced to ledgerdrawing through my father.
My father's name is TerenceGardartopy and he does ledger.
He's been doing ledger art fora number of years now well over
20 years so that was my firstintroduction to seeing how
ledger art you know what it waseven about and what my dad was
(07:21):
doing or still does today interms of focusing on cultural
figures, these prominent peoplethat are part of our history
warriors, people part of ourorigin story the sun, the moon,
morning star and so that wassort of my introduction not only
(07:41):
into ledger art but also into,you know, my own culture and and
learning about um Blackfoot artand and realizing that you know
I was very curious about thesegeometric shapes my dad was
using in his works thesetriangles, these circles, um
discs, rings, clusters of, uh,like polka dots and these little
(08:06):
mounds, and so I was alwayscurious to like what those were,
and that's what really got meinto doing my own research and
learning more about BlackfootPainted Lodges and the way we
interpret our surroundingsthrough these geometric forms
but also figurative forms.
So that was really, you know,my father got me into like the
(08:32):
art history of our own tribe,our own confederacy, and then
also ledger art.
And so ledger art, you know,it's really been around since,
like the 1860s you know, maybethere's some earlier stuff than
that, I mean anything earlierthan that it really starts to go
into hide paintings, lodgepaintings winter counts.
(08:58):
So you know, ledger art is verymuch reminiscent of those
earlier forms of art that werealready here in North America
happening for thousands of years, and so I like to point that
out to people when they talkabout, when we talk about or ask
it, when I get asked about,ledger art, you know, is that
it's very much a continuation ofother art forms that were
(09:21):
already here present in NorthAmerica, art forms that were
already here present in NorthAmerica.
And then ledger art, you knowjust, it was about the materials
they had at hand.
You know, no longer hidesweren't accessible.
So a lot of these earlydocumentations of ledger art
came from Great Plains, warriorsbeing incarcerated, and so
(09:51):
there's a lot of good examplesout of Florida, the prisons
there, and really they were justdocumenting their changing
worlds.
So there was a lot of warscenes, warrior scenes, warfare,
courtship, ceremonialgatherings, and then over time
you could see how there wereautomobiles, cars, motorcycles,
(10:15):
trains, yeah, all these thingsthat, as we moved further into
time, more contemporary thingswe were introduced to, those
started to show up in ledger art, and so that's, you know,
that's where I my dad kind oftaught me a lot about those
(10:35):
different aspects of ledger artand how it started with Great
Plains people primarily, but nowit's done by all Native people
people primarily, but now it'sdone by all native people.
Um, you know, there's a lot ofdifferent people working with
ledger art and documenting andrecording things that are part
of, you know, their lives now,and so the it's evolved, you
(10:58):
know, into many people using itnow.
Um, and so that's where I gotsome of my first sheets, too was
from my dad, you know.
He gave me some of my firstdocuments and and then, being in
I going for my museum studies.
That for sure has influenced meas an artist and how I how I, I
(11:21):
guess just operate as an artist.
Um, that museum studiesdefinitely plays a role in that,
and so I I didn't really use mypaper there for a bit, I was
just keeping it, holding onto itbecause it just felt so
precious and I was didn't wantto ruin it, and so, um, I just
(11:45):
had them stored away for for anumber of years there before I
started to like really work withwork with them in 2020.
That's when I really had myfirst show of ledger drawings
was in 2020.
But just to go back to what youhad mentioned in terms of my
educational uh path, you know,at journey at I, I, I went, I my
(12:07):
dad told me about the museumstudies program.
He attended I?
I for a few years and so he wasa guy who introduced me to I?
I.
I had been to the campus onetime during Indian market, when
I came with him, I think it waslike 2007 or something.
So I was been to the campus andthen so I was familiar with it
(12:32):
a little bit.
But yeah, I really wanted topursue museum studies and I was
really interested and stillinterested in collections, how
people collect just historicalitems.
I was mainly interested inhistorical collections, but II
really introduced me to thecontemporary side of collections
(12:54):
, and so that's what got me togo to II was these different
museum experiences I had whileattending the Blackfeet
Community College and going todifferent trips.
Yeah, that got me reallyfocused on, like, wanting to be
involved with material learningabout history, designs, all of
(13:19):
that.
And so I went to II to pursuemuseum studies and, yeah, well,
there I, one of my instructorsencouraged my class to take an
art course, and so that's what Idid.
I took color theory and I justreally fell in love with the
being.
(13:39):
I guess just being creative andbeing in that creative act was
very rewarding, and so I justcontinued to take art classes,
the intros ones that I couldtake and eventually I was like
you know what I think I'll?
I want to pursue an AFA atleast, and so that's what I did.
(14:01):
And I focused on printmaking,more specifically screen
printing, that's the out of thetechniques.
I was really drawn to that, andthen also photography.
So those were my two focuses.
That's what I learned in termsof classes.
I took a lot of printmaking anda lot of photography and after
graduating I just decided topursue art you know, the art
(14:25):
career rather than museum.
I did a lot of museum work as astudent.
You know I worked at Mokna alot, did exhibitions, um, worked
in the collections there for abit art and all of that kind of
stuff at ii.
(14:52):
So yeah, all of that experience.
If I hadn't gone to ii, Iwouldn't be pursuing art right
now and I wouldn't be, you know,operating how I do, if I wasn't
for that place.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
So yeah, well, thanks for sharing that and I guess
we'll just get right into it.
You know you're talking aboutsort of coming from this family
lineage associated with ledgerdrawing.
Of course, your father is quitewell known in his own right,
you know, and you have thisclose association.
So I'm wondering, given thatyour work is deeply rooted in
(15:25):
Pekani visual traditions andledger art, yet it also embraces
contemporary aesthetics, how doyou navigate the balance
between tradition and innovationin your artistic practice?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yeah, I, you know, growing up I in Montana,
browning, is very rural, we'retwo hours away from any city,
(16:03):
and so my outlook and view onart was I old, you know, native
and settlers encountering eachother, scenes like that, like CM
Russell, all of those you know,that's what art is in Montana,
and so that was my view on art.
(16:23):
And if you were trying to be anartist, you had to do art like
that.
That's how I viewed it.
And even being an artist, youknow, I never wanted to be an
artist growing up.
That's one question I'd alwaysget Are you going to be an
artist like your dad?
So it's funny how that has comefull circle and I am pursuing
art.
But, yeah, even I thought arthad to look like his art too.
(16:47):
You know, if I was going to bean artist, my art had to look
like what my dad was doing.
But but he always made clear tome that, you know, I could do
whatever I want.
And you know, ledger, artdoesn't just have to look like
what he's doing, it can bewhatever.
And so I, after getting to iiand working in the collections
(17:08):
and seeing that there wasactually natives doing really
cool contemporary stuff you knowinnovative for their times too,
like looking at, in terms ofthe collection spanning 50 years
, contemporary art, that reallyopened my eyes to being like,
okay, actually you can do artdifferently, you can do it like
(17:31):
this.
And then, eventually I gotintroduced to non-Native artists
that remain some of my favoriteartists today, such as Frank
Stella, carmen Herrera, andthese artists that were, and
even Jeff Kam, the late Jeff CamNeil Parsons, who's also from
my community you know, there'sthese, there were these artists
(17:53):
that were working with reallylarge, you know, color field
paintings, the hard edgepaintings, and just very
geometric.
And so I think after that, I waslike, okay, you know, these
guys are doing just purelygeometric shapes, and and one
(18:14):
thing that I was doing well atII in terms of printmaking, I
was trying to figure out like,well, what do I do?
And, um, you know, I I justoverheard some people
encouraging to look at your owncommunity, look at your own
cultural art history, and evenLloyd Keevanew, and reading some
(18:35):
of his quotes and thoughts youknow of, of at least embracing
where you come from.
And so that's what I did atfirst, and so, and it was the
painted lodges, the geometricshapes, I was just really drawn
to those and have done my ownresearch, have collected
material about them, taking myown photos.
(18:56):
And you know, my dad's a lodgepainted lodge owner.
Some of my instructors atBlackfeet Community College
they're painted lodge owners andso definitely have gotten
first-hand knowledge about themand they're not just like these
decorative painted lodges thatyou would see and be like oh,
(19:17):
that's nice art.
You know, these are very, um,personal to those lodge owners.
It's, they're very, they'relike a small bundle.
I consider them alive.
You know, those art, it, it,once it's transferred and goes
through that transfer ceremonialprocess, it becomes activated
(19:37):
and alive and and the way youact around it changes.
And so I I was really drawn tothose and specifically the
geometric shapes.
And you know I just realizedthat we were doing these, uh,
(19:58):
geometric, creating geometricforms of visual expression and
also interpretation of oursurroundings.
You know we had been doing thatfor hundreds, thousands of
years and I was just like thisis so cool.
You know a lot of people thinkthat I get asked, you know, am I
inspired and influenced byWestern movements, you know,
(20:20):
such as those artists I hadmentioned that are non-native?
And yes, I am.
I'm very much drawn to thosemovements and those genres, but
also my own tribes, and that wewere already using these types
of visual forms, and so that'swhat I kind of latched onto.
(20:42):
A lot of those forms are veryrepetition and almost like a
pattern at the bottom, becausethere's like multiple triangles
or multiple mounds or multiplecircles, disks, and so I worked
with it like that.
At first I was like taking itliterally from the lodge and
working it in multiples andcreating landscapes, and after a
(21:05):
while I was like you know, Idon't want, how can I?
You know I've always been drawnto abstraction, and so I was
just like how can I furtherabstract and sort of reduce
these?
You know reduction and minimizesome of you know minimize it, I
guess and so over time itstarted to become just one shape
(21:26):
, and that's what I focus onnowadays too is I'm just giving
this single shape prominence,and I think that really comes
from growing up in Montana onthe plains.
There's often these buttes thatare out on the plains.
They just look like islands andthey're just very prominent
(21:47):
landscape, um landmarks out on,out on the territory,
traditional territory too, andso those types of experiences,
um, I guess, you know, help mekind of navigate, creating and
being an artist and and I'mconstantly reading, I'm
(22:07):
constantly collecting books.
I think that helps with stayinginnovative and fresh and keeping
the ideas rolling um and justbeing out in the world.
You know, I'm like road signs,I don't know, just different
things that attract me willeventually sort of remain with
(22:28):
me.
If it's that impactful and kindof, I'll work with it in
different ways, and so I'll seeshapes out in the world, I'll
see color schemes, um, out inthe world that I'll eventually
start using.
And and just lastly, you know,to end on this one, um, and I
think what I'm doing too now I,so I I'm always comparing,
(22:51):
making comparisons or parallelswith the how people have painted
these lodges and how theymiddle part, like my dad, um,
you know these they're animals,they're weather elements,
(23:13):
they're rocks, um, and so a lotof bee gunny artists, black feet
artists.
You know they'll work with allof that and because we were so
like just connected to the worldaround us and and these painted
lodges are like world views ofthat, but yeah, the work
nowadays is really gone moreinto, rather than land and
(23:40):
cosmos, which I've always beenfocused on, it's starting to
lead more into personalexperiences and how those
experiences are making me feel.
So I'm trying to um, yeah, thework is going based on these
personal experiences.
Now, and even the titles youknow the titles are all based on
(24:02):
what's happening that moment intime, and I spend a lot of time
on my titles too.
I just write down whatevercomes to mind and they're like
little poems, I guess you couldsay.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I just really love how you were talking about these
painted lodges and I was kindof looking at a bunch of
historic images as you weretalking and I like how you were
talking about them as beingspaces that can be activated.
You know that they're not justthese spaces where people occupy
(24:36):
and or that they're decorations, right but that they serve like
a very significant personal andcultural community purpose.
But I'm wondering if you couldtalk a little bit about how
color and geometry play asignificant role in your work
and if you could share how youruse of bold colors and geometric
(24:58):
abstraction connect to yourheritage.
I know you talked a little bitabout that as far as, like how
it's related to these paintedlodges and has a direct
relationship to sort of theabstract images that your
community has been using sinceforever.
Did you want to talk a littlebit more about how your work
(25:18):
which I would consider to be aslight departure in some ways,
like it's definitely stillconnected, but I guess maybe
learn a little bit more abouthow you're applying these things
in your work today?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yeah, totally.
You know, a question I havehere in my studio is written
down on a post.
It is like how do we relate tocolor and how do we relate to
form or shapes?
And that could be personally orcollectively, you know, as a
tribe, as a nation, and overtime, you know, I've interpreted
that different ways.
But color-wise, in terms of ourpainted lodges, you know,
(26:04):
there's only like five colorsthat are mainly used and it
doesn't just apply to thepainted lodges, it applies to
our war bonnets, our war shirts,um, different things that we
were, that we've created, arestill creating too, and you,
you'll see different hues ofyellow, different hues of red,
(26:27):
blue, green, black and white.
Those are the colors you seeall the time on our painted
lodges and sometimes it mightkind of go out from that, but
it's pretty much the primarycolors green and black and white
, and so I've used those colorsa lot over time.
(26:48):
But once I started doing ledgerdrawing, ledger art and working
with all these colored pencils,that really expanded my color
theory knowledge and and how,how I think about color
relativity, how colors interactwith each other.
But I all of a sudden I had allthese different colors to use
(27:10):
and pull from and and what'snice about?
When I run out of a color, youknow I can just go to artists
and and get a few more of thatsame color.
So I'm I'm constantly I'm ableto work with the same color and
over and I'm constantly.
After I finish, I document mycolors too.
So I have a sketch pad and I'llwrite, fill in a little square
(27:35):
of color and write the name, thebrand, date it, when I used all
of these colors.
So every time I finish aproject I document all of the
colors, been able to rememberall these color names and sort
of start interpreting the.
When I'm out in everyday lifeI'll see certain colors and you
(27:55):
know I'll be like that'swhatever chartreuse green or
lavender blue or you knowwhatever tiger lily like.
So I think that's reallyinteresting how I based on
documenting colors, how I'vebeen able to sort of see those
colors out in the world now.
But I I was taking this class orhelping present in this class
(28:19):
at the Blackfeet CommunityCollege and one of the elders
that was in charge of it,leonard Weasel Traveler.
Somebody asked him like youknow, is there certain colors
that we use?
Or you know, is there certaincolors that are just black feet
or black foot.
Um, and he gave a really coolstory.
(28:42):
He told a really cool storyabout Noppy, who's one of our
trickster.
Um, I consider him like a subcreator, but he's a trickster
and always like moral of thestory, you know, type, character
, and there's a story of him inthe rainbow and he either like
roped the rainbow or something,um to that story.
(29:04):
But he just said you know, yousee all those colors in that
rainbow.
Um, he's like all we use, allthose colors.
You know all of the colors andthe rainbow is what we use.
And so I always thought thatwas really cool too to hear you
know, because I think often, asa younger person from my
community, who's not, you know,who doesn't know that type of
(29:26):
knowledge?
That's more cultural andtraditional.
Um, and just seeing colors thatwe use, I would think like
those are the only colors weshould use, like the ones I
mentioned, the primary black andwhite.
But just hearing that story hetold and and saying that you
know all the colors in therainbow, you know those are all
the colors we use, and so Ireally took that kind of
(29:50):
seriously in terms of my studiopractice and I just started to
use all different colors, tints,tones and shades of these.
You know main colors and andthat's really expanded my color
in terms of what I'm doing rightnow and these color schemes I'm
(30:11):
creating, yeah, they're just,it's really expanded over the
years, especially with ledgerdrawing.
And then the shapes, you knowthey go back to again those
painted lodges.
You know geometric abstractionor even indigenous abstraction.
You know geometric abstractionor even indigenous abstraction.
You know those are ideas thatI've come across as an artist,
(30:35):
and even Jeff Cam would talkabout indigenous abstraction.
But there was a really greatwrite up I read about Australian
artists and how they're.
They talked about indigenousabstraction, you know, being
there but also around the world,talked about indigenous
abstraction, you know, beingthere but also around the world,
and it's just these, theseforms of interpreting and
(30:55):
documenting their cultures, andso what looked like just polka
dots all over was actually a map, and so I was like this is.
You know, this is really coolbecause this is what I'm sort of
doing um, um, you know thisisn't just this sort of simple
or randomly put together shapesand colors.
(31:16):
You know I'm I'm actuallytrying to, um, capture,
interpret things that I comeacross or experience.
Um, so, yeah, I guess, lookingat my own tribe and how they
interpreted our surroundingsthrough triangles, because we
(31:36):
live right next to the RockyMountains, I always tell people,
you know, yeah, we're plainspeople but we're also mountain
people just because we livedright on that boundary and a lot
of our resources are in themountains and a lot of our
resources are in the mountains,but yeah, they are just in turn.
And then our creator, the sunas a circle, the moon as a
circle too, but sometimes a halfcrescent morning star is like
(31:59):
this cross symbol, and thencircles or clusters of circles,
is constellations, specific onessometimes, and then just stars,
and I just really respect andappreciate that they were
interpreting our surroundings inthese geometric forms.
And so that's what I'm doing.
(32:19):
I'm just creating newinterpretations, new geometric
forms and really, yeah, that'swhat I'm sharing with my
audience, with anyone whoeverwants to see my work and learn
more about it.
I'm hoping the titles give alittle.
(32:40):
The titles are really theartists, my thoughts about the
work, and so, yeah, that's theshapes.
For sure, that's what they're.
I've stuck with the geometricforms and lately I've done a
little bit more organic lookingforms, but mostly it's hard edge
(33:02):
geometric forms just because Ifeel they create order and
balance and organization.
That's what it makes me feellike working in this geometric
manner.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, and I like how you're talking about it in the
context of like you're justbuilding upon a pre-existing
vocabulary that existed in yourcommunity.
You're just adding to that,which I think is makes total
sense.
You know something I wanted toask you about is?
You mentioned that your work isshifting to include more daily
(33:44):
or contemporary reflections andexperiences, but then you also
mentioned the initial reasonbehind ledger work being created
from antique and or archivalpaper.
Why, then, do you continue touse archival and antique papers
as a component to your work?
Do you feel like it's necessary, and how does it inform your
(34:05):
work shifting into morecontemporary themes?
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, no, I.
One thing I really enjoy aboutledger art in general is that,
you know, they, they, a lot ofartists, continue to use these
old documents and what's reallycool about about them is, um,
(34:29):
you know, the, the penmanship, Iguess, and the dates they come
from.
Uh, that's something I'm moreinterested in, not so much what
the document it is, uh, but moreso like the dates, because I am
I'm always thinking what washappening during those times,
(34:51):
you know, and it's a lot ofatrocities and hardships and
obstacles.
You know we're already forcedon reservations, the bison are
nearly eradicated, our huntinggrounds, you know, are taken
(35:14):
away from us, and so I continueto use these documents because
it feels like I have this pieceof history from that time that
was really hard for us and allof a sudden I'm like a hundred
years later and I'm repurposingit and reinvigorating it, giving
it new life, um, and basicallyjust reinserting ourselves into
this larger North Americannarrative that you know, most
(35:36):
Native people have alwaysreclaiming, and I don't know
even sovereignty or survivance.
Those types of words come tomind when I'm working with this,
(36:01):
because these papers have theirown life and a lot of these old
documents have watermarks thatare from East coast paper mills
that are no longer in existence,and so there's even that's a
whole nother layer to the workis that and it's, you know, part
of American history and all ofa sudden it's like in my hands,
(36:22):
I.
So I really think that'sinteresting and I think about
that a lot when I'm working withthese old documents, how people
from the time this documentcame from, our ancestors,
probably wouldn't have access tothis government form, this city
form, receipt, whatever itmight be, and all of a sudden
(36:42):
today we do.
But yeah, so there's this.
I like working with that oldmaterial.
For that reason it feels veryhistorical and fragile, it feels
extra important versusprintmaking, stonehenge paper,
(37:02):
archival, you know, like workingwith these other drawing papers
that are really good too, thatare, you know, really good too,
but yeah, these ones, I I thinkjust it's, it's really cool just
to work with this differenttype of material and and put
this completely new contemporaryum form on a visual form that's
(37:24):
done in colored pencil.
Uh, I think the aesthetic ofcolored pencil is really cool
too.
That's why why I've continuedto work with that and a lot of
the first ledger drawingsthey're all done in colored
pencil or crayon or pen.
So I've kind of stuck with thatoriginal way of creating, just
(37:46):
because I really like theaesthetic and how it looks.
And my father, he's the same way.
He gave me some of my firstcolored pencils and that's all
he uses, too, is colored pencilsto create his work, whereas
some artists today they'll usemore like acrylics, maybe even
oil, maybe even sort of thesearchival marker-based inks.
(38:11):
So you know, you see the ledger, art has definitely changed
over time, but I really likethose original materials that
people were using and creatingthese different looking forms
that are for sure stillcontinuation, continuum, but new
that are for sure, stillcontinuation, continuum.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
But but new, something that you mentioned
earlier was how you continue toparticipate.
I mean, you're doing so muchright now, right like you're,
you're in these um exhibitions,everywhere, um, and I think one
thing that has been a continuouspresence also is your ability
to continue to show at placeslike Indian Market.
(38:54):
So I'm wondering you talked alittle bit about like how you
don't necessarily quite fit into the categories but that you
continue to place at marketslike Swaya, for example how do
you navigate the tension betweenclassification and artistic
freedom?
What do you think needs tochange in the way Native art is
categorized and understood?
Speaker 1 (39:15):
No, that's really a great question.
And yeah, like I had mentionedin the beginning a little bit in
terms of Swaya, you know,entering Swaya, which you know
is the largest native markethere in the united states, even
out there, I would say, in theworld, and super prestigious and
(39:36):
has been around, you know, over100 years now and, um, my first
year getting in was in 2019.
I wasn't doing ledger art thattime.
I was doing more serigraphs andscreen printing, um, so that's
what I had started out entering.
And then in 20, I guess after2020, when you know they had
(39:58):
done the virtual thing, um,which I participated in and I
think I entered a ledger one forthat, but I think it was 2022
was when I finally got back inand entered a ledger piece.
I did this diptych ledgerdrawing that I hadn't been
seeing.
Like my father, he collages alot of documents on larger
(40:20):
documents and he's really wellknown for that, but I hadn't
really seen people combininglike large sheets and creating
diptychs or triptychs, um, andso that's something, you know.
I was like, well, this ispretty neat in that there's a, a
best of show, you know that youcan enter.
(40:40):
So, as an artist, I was like,well, that's, I want to
participate in that and I wantto submit something that I feel
is, you know, pushing my ownself as an artist, but also the
medium I'm working with and thatI'd be entering.
And so I chose to do thisdiptych piece, creating a, this
(41:02):
huge sort of window, black andwhite, super high contrast color
scheme that I went with and Igot first place in in my, my
category and I think I got evenlike my best of class or
something like that, the lowerone that you can get, and so
that was really cool becausethat was sort of just, I guess,
(41:26):
for me acknowledgement of youknow what I'm doing people are
seeing, gravitating towards that, some people at least, at least
those judges uh, felt enough toaward me first place for that
and and so that was really great, and so I was like, well, I
just gonna continue to to submitwork like this, even though the
(41:47):
definition says, you know, it'smore representational and
that's so true to ledger art.
History is that, yes, it didstart out like that and people
continue to work like that.
But to me, the general, theumbrella sort of definition is
(42:09):
of ledger art is documentationand recording, and that's what
I'm doing, and even before I gotinto ledger art with my
printmaking, I was recording anddocumenting landscape scenes
that I would come across or starstories that I would hear.
Um, yeah, and so I.
(42:30):
I think that's why I gravitatedtowards ledger art, um, you
know, so intensely at first wasbecause it was another form of
documenting and recording, andso that would be my argument is
that I'm, you know, ledger artis that's what it's about.
It's about recording ourchanging environments, our
(42:52):
changing landscapes, ourchanging experiences, and this
is what it looks like today, iswhat I'm doing.
And so, yeah, I think, you knowI.
And then I've heard people saylike, not directly, but other
people have told me, like my dad, just, that people are like,
(43:13):
well, you know what is this guydoing?
Or what is this?
You know what is this?
Isn't ledger art, maybe, Idon't know.
I just think that we need toLike they're just trying to
control that definition and keepus herded herded altogether,
like cattle or something forthis medium and I always just go
(43:35):
back to oscar howe's letter tothe philbrook museum.
You know that's what he wassaying is like we need to be
able to express ourselves andnot do what you think is native
art, and so I think, as natives,we're trying to say this is
native art now to ourselves, andso I think that's really
interesting too.
But, you know, I don't.
(43:57):
I just keep creating based on,in terms of Swaya and Best of
Show, something that I feel ispushing myself, you know, and
it's all about just me pushingmyself as an artist and and
knowing that, yes, I am going tosubmit this work to that show,
(44:18):
and knowing that, yes, I amgoing to submit this work to to
that show, um, but yeah, it'smore about just like, what am I
doing?
How can I?
It gives me a chance, though,to push myself.
I mean, it does give me achance to go larger.
That best of show, uh, eachyear, I've gone larger.
So the first year was a diptychlat.
The year after that, which was2023 was a triptych, this huge
piece, and then last year Isubmitted this quadriptych using
(44:41):
four sheets, and all of theseare framed together.
So it's also a challenge towork with framers in terms of
what I'm asking for, becausethese are all floating hinge,
you know, they're not matted, sothey, when I, when I, when I
dropped these off, it's verylike I want it to look like this
and I've learned a lot to workwith framers too.
(45:01):
I mean, I would say that forsure.
I've learned so much aboutframing and working with
different frame shops.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Wow, yeah, you just touched upon so much, especially
that comment related to likehow I've often found because I
think a lot of the stuff thatI'm pursuing is non-conventional
or not necessarily, uh,associated with like
quote-unquote native art uh andI've often found too that like
(45:32):
it's often non-native folks thatare the least flexible in terms
of understanding or recognizingwhat is and isn't Native art,
but that folks from our owncommunities are like generally
fine with it.
So in that way, like it's alittle bit frustrating, little
(45:57):
bit frustrating, but also I feellike at ease with it too,
because I'm like we can laughabout it at the end of the day,
because we know, like you know,it still gets the green light
from our own community, you knowso then you know it's like okay
, I'm just gonna keep doingwhatever we're doing, you know
so you know just these thingsthat keep me rolling as an
artist, as a full time artist.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
I was teaching at II and I took the semester off
because I have so much going on.
So you know, I taught threesemesters serigraphy one and
serigraphy two and just thissemester I was like you know, I
have have a lot of opportunitiesrolling right now in my career
that I just need to focus on andtrying to teach and be an
(46:41):
artist and pursue.
The amount of projects I'mtrying to pursue was just so
hard.
But I'm very grateful for theteaching experience I got
because you know that'ssomething I would be interested
in doing again down, furtherdown the road.
But people can always follow meon Instagram and Facebook.
They're both just at TarynLaskin, my website.
(47:01):
You know I am pretty good atmaking sure I update my
happenings and what's going on.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
The Collective Spirit podcast is produced by First
Peoples Fund, whose mission isto honor and support Indigenous
artists and culture bearersthrough grant-making initiatives
, culturally-rooted programming,and training and mentorship.
Learn more atfirstpeoplesfundorg.
Bye.
And I just really respect and appreciate they were
interpreting our surroundingsin these geometric forms, and so
that's what I'm doing.
I'm just creating newinterpretations, new geometric
forms and really, yeah, that'swhat I'm sharing with my
audience, with anyone, you know,whoever wants to see my work
(00:24):
and learn more about it.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
First People's Fund presents the Collective Spirit
Podcast.
The Collective Spirit moveseach of us to stand up and make
a difference, to pass onancestral knowledge and simply
extend a hand of generosity.
The Collective Spirit Podcastfeatures Native artists and
culture bearers who discuss thepower of Indigenous art and
(00:54):
culture.
Welcome to the CollectiveSpirit Podcast, where we explore
the stories, practices andcreative journeys of Indigenous
artists and culture bearers.
In this episode, we sit downwith Taryn Lastgun, a Pekani or
(01:18):
Blackfeet artist whose vibrantand dynamic work pushes the
boundaries of Pekani modernism.
Based in Santa Fe, new Mexico,taryn draws inspiration from
land, cosmos and culturalnarratives, working across
printmaking, ledger art andphotography to shape a
contemporary Indigenous visuallanguage.
(01:39):
A 2020 First Peoples FundArtist in Business Leadership
Fellow and recipient of the 2024Louis Comfort Tiffany
Foundation Biennial Award, tarynhas exhibited his work in
museums and galleries across thecountry.
Today we'll dive into hiscreative process, how he
navigates the evolving art worldand how he remains grounded in
(02:02):
his roots, family and community,while forging new paths in
Indigenous art.
Stay tuned for an inspiringconversation.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Hello everyone.
Hello Heidi, thank you forhaving me today.
My name is Taryn Laskin.
I'm from the Pikani Nation,also known as the Blackfeet
Nation of Montana.
We're members of the BlackfootConfederacy, which includes
three other nations from CanadaGhana, siksika and Bikani.
So just to give some contextinto my background and where I
(02:41):
come from, the Bikani people ofMontana are Blackfeet of Montana
.
We got split in half and sothat's why there's a Bikani in
Canada as well.
So I like to point that out,just to make clear that you know
we were the same people, but wejust got split due to the
Canadian-US border.
(03:02):
So when I talk about thingsrelated to my culture, I'll
often say you know BlackfootPainted Lodges, or even my
Blackfoot name when I introducedmyself is Sakwena Makka, which
means Laskan.
It was my great-great-grandpa,dick Kipps.
One of his Blackfoot names thatwas transferred to me when I
was about 10 years old, so Ihave a lot of respect for that
(03:23):
name and carrying that on for myfamily.
I was born and raised inBrowning, montana.
That's pretty much the capitalof my nation, bikini Nation, and
I've been living in Santa Feand working since 2011.
Came here to attend Instituteof American Indian Arts and I
(03:46):
finished up there in 2016 with aBFA in museum studies and AFA
in studio arts and havecontinued to live down here in
Santa Fe.
The medium you know there'svarious mediums I work with.
I consider myself a visualartist, working with different
media such as printmaking,painting, and you know more.
(04:08):
Currently, in my primary mediumis ledger drawing, but within
each of these mediums I'm usingsort of this very similar visual
language that I've developedover the years and so I've, you
know, whatever medium it mightbe, I'm approaching it kind of
(04:28):
the same way as the other mediumor previous.
So, yeah, that's what I'm doingnow is just ledger drawing,
which is using these antiquedocuments, just regular ledger
sheets, ledger notebook paper.
Some of its government typepaper, municipality, county,
(04:50):
city documents and other stuffis like hotel registrar register
or, like I don't know, bingocards.
Most of it is from the early1900s up into the mid 1900s,
1950s, but also sometimes thepaper I'm using is even older
(05:12):
than that late 1800s, like 1889.
And then I'm also using coloredpencils, and so I use three high
quality colored pencil brandswhole bind, which is probably my
favorite.
That's the one I use the mostbecause it's super velvety.
Uh, favor castel, which is thesecond one I use the most.
(05:33):
And then pablo uh, pablo colorpencils.
They're very like hard tips, sousing them it takes a lot more.
I mean, you could feel like thehow, how much longer it takes
to fill in a space with thatcolored pencil brand versus
Holbein, which is just kind offills in a lot quicker and
(05:53):
easier to apply.
But those are the.
Those are like the materialsI'm using.
And then archival micron pens.
So that's.
You know, each ledger drawingstarts with line work and it's
all about the line work in thebeginning and then after that
it's all about filling it in,selecting color and then filling
it in.
But you know, that's, that'swho I am, that's where I'm from,
(06:15):
that's where you know I current, where I'm currently living,
the mediums I'm working in and,yeah, just happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I'm wondering if, if we, you could just share a
little bit about you know, howyou got introduced to ledger
drawing and maybe also include alittle bit about like how if
I'm not mistaken, it soundedlike when you initially had
attended iaia you were reallylike doing the museum track and
(06:43):
then things kind of shifted.
So if you could just talk alittle bit about you know, your
introduction to the medium andthen also how things might have
shifted as you progressed inyour education.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Yeah, totally.
So I got introduced to ledgerdrawing through my father.
My father's name is TerenceGardartopy and he does ledger.
He's been doing ledger art fora number of years now well over
20 years so that was my firstintroduction to seeing how
ledger art you know what it waseven about and what my dad was
(07:21):
doing or still does today interms of focusing on cultural
figures, these prominent peoplethat are part of our history
warriors, people part of ourorigin story the sun, the moon,
morning star and so that wassort of my introduction not only
(07:41):
into ledger art but also into,you know, my own culture and and
learning about um Blackfoot artand and realizing that you know
I was very curious about thesegeometric shapes my dad was
using in his works thesetriangles, these circles, um
discs, rings, clusters of, uh,like polka dots and these little
(08:06):
mounds, and so I was alwayscurious to like what those were,
and that's what really got meinto doing my own research and
learning more about BlackfootPainted Lodges and the way we
interpret our surroundingsthrough these geometric forms
but also figurative forms.
So that was really, you know,my father got me into like the
(08:32):
art history of our own tribe,our own confederacy, and then
also ledger art.
And so ledger art, you know,it's really been around since,
like the 1860s you know, maybethere's some earlier stuff than
that, I mean anything earlierthan that it really starts to go
into hide paintings, lodgepaintings winter counts.
(08:58):
So you know, ledger art is verymuch reminiscent of those
earlier forms of art that werealready here in North America
happening for thousands of years, and so I like to point that
out to people when they talkabout, when we talk about or ask
it, when I get asked about,ledger art, you know, is that
it's very much a continuation ofother art forms that were
(09:21):
already here present in NorthAmerica, art forms that were
already here present in NorthAmerica.
And then ledger art, you knowjust, it was about the materials
they had at hand.
You know, no longer hidesweren't accessible.
So a lot of these earlydocumentations of ledger art
came from Great Plains, warriorsbeing incarcerated, and so
(09:51):
there's a lot of good examplesout of Florida, the prisons
there, and really they were justdocumenting their changing
worlds.
So there was a lot of warscenes, warrior scenes, warfare,
courtship, ceremonialgatherings, and then over time
you could see how there wereautomobiles, cars, motorcycles,
(10:15):
trains, yeah, all these thingsthat, as we moved further into
time, more contemporary thingswe were introduced to, those
started to show up in ledger art, and so that's, you know,
that's where I my dad kind oftaught me a lot about those
(10:35):
different aspects of ledger artand how it started with Great
Plains people primarily, but nowit's done by all Native people
people primarily, but now it'sdone by all native people.
Um, you know, there's a lot ofdifferent people working with
ledger art and documenting andrecording things that are part
of, you know, their lives now,and so the it's evolved, you
(10:58):
know, into many people using itnow.
Um, and so that's where I gotsome of my first sheets, too was
from my dad, you know.
He gave me some of my firstdocuments and and then, being in
I going for my museum studies.
That for sure has influenced meas an artist and how I how I, I
(11:21):
guess just operate as an artist.
Um, that museum studiesdefinitely plays a role in that,
and so I I didn't really use mypaper there for a bit, I was
just keeping it, holding onto itbecause it just felt so
precious and I was didn't wantto ruin it, and so, um, I just
(11:45):
had them stored away for for anumber of years there before I
started to like really work withwork with them in 2020.
That's when I really had myfirst show of ledger drawings
was in 2020.
But just to go back to what youhad mentioned in terms of my
educational uh path, you know,at journey at I, I, I went, I my
(12:07):
dad told me about the museumstudies program.
He attended I?
I for a few years and so he wasa guy who introduced me to I?
I.
I had been to the campus onetime during Indian market, when
I came with him, I think it waslike 2007 or something.
So I was been to the campus andthen so I was familiar with it
(12:32):
a little bit.
But yeah, I really wanted topursue museum studies and I was
really interested and stillinterested in collections, how
people collect just historicalitems.
I was mainly interested inhistorical collections, but II
really introduced me to thecontemporary side of collections
(12:54):
, and so that's what got me togo to II was these different
museum experiences I had whileattending the Blackfeet
Community College and going todifferent trips.
Yeah, that got me reallyfocused on, like, wanting to be
involved with material learningabout history, designs, all of
(13:19):
that.
And so I went to II to pursuemuseum studies and, yeah, well,
there I, one of my instructorsencouraged my class to take an
art course, and so that's what Idid.
I took color theory and I justreally fell in love with the
being.
(13:39):
I guess just being creative andbeing in that creative act was
very rewarding, and so I justcontinued to take art classes,
the intros ones that I couldtake and eventually I was like
you know what I think I'll?
I want to pursue an AFA atleast, and so that's what I did.
(14:01):
And I focused on printmaking,more specifically screen
printing, that's the out of thetechniques.
I was really drawn to that, andthen also photography.
So those were my two focuses.
That's what I learned in termsof classes.
I took a lot of printmaking anda lot of photography and after
graduating I just decided topursue art you know, the art
(14:25):
career rather than museum.
I did a lot of museum work as astudent.
You know I worked at Mokna alot, did exhibitions, um, worked
in the collections there for abit art and all of that kind of
stuff at ii.
(14:52):
So yeah, all of that experience.
If I hadn't gone to ii, Iwouldn't be pursuing art right
now and I wouldn't be, you know,operating how I do, if I wasn't
for that place.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
So yeah, well, thanks for sharing that and I guess
we'll just get right into it.
You know you're talking aboutsort of coming from this family
lineage associated with ledgerdrawing.
Of course, your father is quitewell known in his own right,
you know, and you have thisclose association.
So I'm wondering, given thatyour work is deeply rooted in
(15:25):
Pekani visual traditions andledger art, yet it also embraces
contemporary aesthetics, how doyou navigate the balance
between tradition and innovationin your artistic practice?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yeah, I, you know, growing up I in Montana,
browning, is very rural, we'retwo hours away from any city,
(16:03):
and so my outlook and view onart was I old, you know, native
and settlers encountering eachother, scenes like that, like CM
Russell, all of those you know,that's what art is in Montana,
and so that was my view on art.
(16:23):
And if you were trying to be anartist, you had to do art like
that.
That's how I viewed it.
And even being an artist, youknow, I never wanted to be an
artist growing up.
That's one question I'd alwaysget Are you going to be an
artist like your dad?
So it's funny how that has comefull circle and I am pursuing
art.
But, yeah, even I thought arthad to look like his art too.
(16:47):
You know, if I was going to bean artist, my art had to look
like what my dad was doing.
But but he always made clear tome that, you know, I could do
whatever I want.
And you know, ledger, artdoesn't just have to look like
what he's doing, it can bewhatever.
And so I, after getting to iiand working in the collections
(17:08):
and seeing that there wasactually natives doing really
cool contemporary stuff you knowinnovative for their times too,
like looking at, in terms ofthe collection spanning 50 years
, contemporary art, that reallyopened my eyes to being like,
okay, actually you can do artdifferently, you can do it like
(17:31):
this.
And then, eventually I gotintroduced to non-Native artists
that remain some of my favoriteartists today, such as Frank
Stella, carmen Herrera, andthese artists that were, and
even Jeff Kam, the late Jeff CamNeil Parsons, who's also from
my community you know, there'sthese, there were these artists
(17:53):
that were working with reallylarge, you know, color field
paintings, the hard edgepaintings, and just very
geometric.
And so I think after that, I waslike, okay, you know, these
guys are doing just purelygeometric shapes, and and one
(18:14):
thing that I was doing well atII in terms of printmaking, I
was trying to figure out like,well, what do I do?
And, um, you know, I I justoverheard some people
encouraging to look at your owncommunity, look at your own
cultural art history, and evenLloyd Keevanew, and reading some
(18:35):
of his quotes and thoughts youknow of, of at least embracing
where you come from.
And so that's what I did atfirst, and so, and it was the
painted lodges, the geometricshapes, I was just really drawn
to those and have done my ownresearch, have collected
material about them, taking myown photos.
(18:56):
And you know, my dad's a lodgepainted lodge owner.
Some of my instructors atBlackfeet Community College
they're painted lodge owners andso definitely have gotten
first-hand knowledge about themand they're not just like these
decorative painted lodges thatyou would see and be like oh,
(19:17):
that's nice art.
You know, these are very, um,personal to those lodge owners.
It's, they're very, they'relike a small bundle.
I consider them alive.
You know, those art, it, it,once it's transferred and goes
through that transfer ceremonialprocess, it becomes activated
(19:37):
and alive and and the way youact around it changes.
And so I I was really drawn tothose and specifically the
geometric shapes.
And you know I just realizedthat we were doing these, uh,
(19:58):
geometric, creating geometricforms of visual expression and
also interpretation of oursurroundings.
You know we had been doing thatfor hundreds, thousands of
years and I was just like thisis so cool.
You know a lot of people thinkthat I get asked, you know, am I
inspired and influenced byWestern movements, you know,
(20:20):
such as those artists I hadmentioned that are non-native?
And yes, I am.
I'm very much drawn to thosemovements and those genres, but
also my own tribes, and that wewere already using these types
of visual forms, and so that'swhat I kind of latched onto.
(20:42):
A lot of those forms are veryrepetition and almost like a
pattern at the bottom, becausethere's like multiple triangles
or multiple mounds or multiplecircles, disks, and so I worked
with it like that.
At first I was like taking itliterally from the lodge and
working it in multiples andcreating landscapes, and after a
(21:05):
while I was like you know, Idon't want, how can I?
You know I've always been drawnto abstraction, and so I was
just like how can I furtherabstract and sort of reduce
these?
You know reduction and minimizesome of you know minimize it, I
guess and so over time itstarted to become just one shape
(21:26):
, and that's what I focus onnowadays too is I'm just giving
this single shape prominence,and I think that really comes
from growing up in Montana onthe plains.
There's often these buttes thatare out on the plains.
They just look like islands andthey're just very prominent
(21:47):
landscape, um landmarks out on,out on the territory,
traditional territory too, andso those types of experiences,
um, I guess, you know, help mekind of navigate, creating and
being an artist and and I'mconstantly reading, I'm
(22:07):
constantly collecting books.
I think that helps with stayinginnovative and fresh and keeping
the ideas rolling um and justbeing out in the world.
You know, I'm like road signs,I don't know, just different
things that attract me willeventually sort of remain with
(22:28):
me.
If it's that impactful and kindof, I'll work with it in
different ways, and so I'll seeshapes out in the world, I'll
see color schemes, um, out inthe world that I'll eventually
start using.
And and just lastly, you know,to end on this one, um, and I
think what I'm doing too now I,so I I'm always comparing,
(22:51):
making comparisons or parallelswith the how people have painted
these lodges and how theymiddle part, like my dad, um,
you know these they're animals,they're weather elements,
(23:13):
they're rocks, um, and so a lotof bee gunny artists, black feet
artists.
You know they'll work with allof that and because we were so
like just connected to the worldaround us and and these painted
lodges are like world views ofthat, but yeah, the work
nowadays is really gone moreinto, rather than land and
(23:40):
cosmos, which I've always beenfocused on, it's starting to
lead more into personalexperiences and how those
experiences are making me feel.
So I'm trying to um, yeah, thework is going based on these
personal experiences.
Now, and even the titles youknow the titles are all based on
(24:02):
what's happening that moment intime, and I spend a lot of time
on my titles too.
I just write down whatevercomes to mind and they're like
little poems, I guess you couldsay.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I just really love how you were talking about these
painted lodges and I was kindof looking at a bunch of
historic images as you weretalking and I like how you were
talking about them as beingspaces that can be activated.
You know that they're not justthese spaces where people occupy
(24:36):
and or that they're decorations, right but that they serve like
a very significant personal andcultural community purpose.
But I'm wondering if you couldtalk a little bit about how
color and geometry play asignificant role in your work
and if you could share how youruse of bold colors and geometric
(24:58):
abstraction connect to yourheritage.
I know you talked a little bitabout that as far as, like how
it's related to these paintedlodges and has a direct
relationship to sort of theabstract images that your
community has been using sinceforever.
Did you want to talk a littlebit more about how your work
(25:18):
which I would consider to be aslight departure in some ways,
like it's definitely stillconnected, but I guess maybe
learn a little bit more abouthow you're applying these things
in your work today?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yeah, totally.
You know, a question I havehere in my studio is written
down on a post.
It is like how do we relate tocolor and how do we relate to
form or shapes?
And that could be personally orcollectively, you know, as a
tribe, as a nation, and overtime, you know, I've interpreted
that different ways.
But color-wise, in terms of ourpainted lodges, you know,
(26:04):
there's only like five colorsthat are mainly used and it
doesn't just apply to thepainted lodges, it applies to
our war bonnets, our war shirts,um, different things that we
were, that we've created, arestill creating too, and you,
you'll see different hues ofyellow, different hues of red,
(26:27):
blue, green, black and white.
Those are the colors you seeall the time on our painted
lodges and sometimes it mightkind of go out from that, but
it's pretty much the primarycolors green and black and white
, and so I've used those colorsa lot over time.
(26:48):
But once I started doing ledgerdrawing, ledger art and working
with all these colored pencils,that really expanded my color
theory knowledge and and how,how I think about color
relativity, how colors interactwith each other.
But I all of a sudden I had allthese different colors to use
(27:10):
and pull from and and what'snice about?
When I run out of a color, youknow I can just go to artists
and and get a few more of thatsame color.
So I'm I'm constantly I'm ableto work with the same color and
over and I'm constantly.
After I finish, I document mycolors too.
So I have a sketch pad and I'llwrite, fill in a little square
(27:35):
of color and write the name, thebrand, date it, when I used all
of these colors.
So every time I finish aproject I document all of the
colors, been able to rememberall these color names and sort
of start interpreting the.
When I'm out in everyday lifeI'll see certain colors and you
(27:55):
know I'll be like that'swhatever chartreuse green or
lavender blue or you knowwhatever tiger lily like.
So I think that's reallyinteresting how I based on
documenting colors, how I'vebeen able to sort of see those
colors out in the world now.
But I I was taking this class orhelping present in this class
(28:19):
at the Blackfeet CommunityCollege and one of the elders
that was in charge of it,leonard Weasel Traveler.
Somebody asked him like youknow, is there certain colors
that we use?
Or you know, is there certaincolors that are just black feet
or black foot.
Um, and he gave a really coolstory.
(28:42):
He told a really cool storyabout Noppy, who's one of our
trickster.
Um, I consider him like a subcreator, but he's a trickster
and always like moral of thestory, you know, type, character
, and there's a story of him inthe rainbow and he either like
roped the rainbow or something,um to that story.
(29:04):
But he just said you know, yousee all those colors in that
rainbow.
Um, he's like all we use, allthose colors.
You know all of the colors andthe rainbow is what we use.
And so I always thought thatwas really cool too to hear you
know, because I think often, asa younger person from my
community, who's not, you know,who doesn't know that type of
(29:26):
knowledge?
That's more cultural andtraditional.
Um, and just seeing colors thatwe use, I would think like
those are the only colors weshould use, like the ones I
mentioned, the primary black andwhite.
But just hearing that story hetold and and saying that you
know all the colors in therainbow, you know those are all
the colors we use, and so Ireally took that kind of
(29:50):
seriously in terms of my studiopractice and I just started to
use all different colors, tints,tones and shades of these.
You know main colors and andthat's really expanded my color
in terms of what I'm doing rightnow and these color schemes I'm
(30:11):
creating, yeah, they're just,it's really expanded over the
years, especially with ledgerdrawing.
And then the shapes, you knowthey go back to again those
painted lodges.
You know geometric abstractionor even indigenous abstraction.
You know geometric abstractionor even indigenous abstraction.
You know those are ideas thatI've come across as an artist,
(30:35):
and even Jeff Cam would talkabout indigenous abstraction.
But there was a really greatwrite up I read about Australian
artists and how they're.
They talked about indigenousabstraction, you know, being
there but also around the world,talked about indigenous
abstraction, you know, beingthere but also around the world,
and it's just these, theseforms of interpreting and
(30:55):
documenting their cultures, andso what looked like just polka
dots all over was actually a map, and so I was like this is.
You know, this is really coolbecause this is what I'm sort of
doing um, um, you know thisisn't just this sort of simple
or randomly put together shapesand colors.
(31:16):
You know I'm I'm actuallytrying to, um, capture,
interpret things that I comeacross or experience.
Um, so, yeah, I guess, lookingat my own tribe and how they
interpreted our surroundingsthrough triangles, because we
(31:36):
live right next to the RockyMountains, I always tell people,
you know, yeah, we're plainspeople but we're also mountain
people just because we livedright on that boundary and a lot
of our resources are in themountains and a lot of our
resources are in the mountains,but yeah, they are just in turn.
And then our creator, the sunas a circle, the moon as a
circle too, but sometimes a halfcrescent morning star is like
(31:59):
this cross symbol, and thencircles or clusters of circles,
is constellations, specific onessometimes, and then just stars,
and I just really respect andappreciate that they were
interpreting our surroundings inthese geometric forms.
And so that's what I'm doing.
(32:19):
I'm just creating newinterpretations, new geometric
forms and really, yeah, that'swhat I'm sharing with my
audience, with anyone whoeverwants to see my work and learn
more about it.
I'm hoping the titles give alittle.
(32:40):
The titles are really theartists, my thoughts about the
work, and so, yeah, that's theshapes.
For sure, that's what they're.
I've stuck with the geometricforms and lately I've done a
little bit more organic lookingforms, but mostly it's hard edge
(33:02):
geometric forms just because Ifeel they create order and
balance and organization.
That's what it makes me feellike working in this geometric
manner.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, and I like how you're talking about it in the
context of like you're justbuilding upon a pre-existing
vocabulary that existed in yourcommunity.
You're just adding to that,which I think is makes total
sense.
You know something I wanted toask you about is?
You mentioned that your work isshifting to include more daily
(33:44):
or contemporary reflections andexperiences, but then you also
mentioned the initial reasonbehind ledger work being created
from antique and or archivalpaper.
Why, then, do you continue touse archival and antique papers
as a component to your work?
Do you feel like it's necessary, and how does it inform your
(34:05):
work shifting into morecontemporary themes?
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, no, I.
One thing I really enjoy aboutledger art in general is that,
you know, they, they, a lot ofartists, continue to use these
old documents and what's reallycool about about them is, um,
(34:29):
you know, the, the penmanship, Iguess, and the dates they come
from.
Uh, that's something I'm moreinterested in, not so much what
the document it is, uh, but moreso like the dates, because I am
I'm always thinking what washappening during those times,
(34:51):
you know, and it's a lot ofatrocities and hardships and
obstacles.
You know we're already forcedon reservations, the bison are
nearly eradicated, our huntinggrounds, you know, are taken
(35:14):
away from us, and so I continueto use these documents because
it feels like I have this pieceof history from that time that
was really hard for us and allof a sudden I'm like a hundred
years later and I'm repurposingit and reinvigorating it, giving
it new life, um, and basicallyjust reinserting ourselves into
this larger North Americannarrative that you know, most
(35:36):
Native people have alwaysreclaiming, and I don't know
even sovereignty or survivance.
Those types of words come tomind when I'm working with this,
(36:01):
because these papers have theirown life and a lot of these old
documents have watermarks thatare from East coast paper mills
that are no longer in existence,and so there's even that's a
whole nother layer to the workis that and it's, you know, part
of American history and all ofa sudden it's like in my hands,
(36:22):
I.
So I really think that'sinteresting and I think about
that a lot when I'm working withthese old documents, how people
from the time this documentcame from, our ancestors,
probably wouldn't have access tothis government form, this city
form, receipt, whatever itmight be, and all of a sudden
(36:42):
today we do.
But yeah, so there's this.
I like working with that oldmaterial.
For that reason it feels veryhistorical and fragile, it feels
extra important versusprintmaking, stonehenge paper,
(37:02):
archival, you know, like workingwith these other drawing papers
that are really good too, thatare, you know, really good too,
but yeah, these ones, I I thinkjust it's, it's really cool just
to work with this differenttype of material and and put
this completely new contemporaryum form on a visual form that's
(37:24):
done in colored pencil.
Uh, I think the aesthetic ofcolored pencil is really cool
too.
That's why why I've continuedto work with that and a lot of
the first ledger drawingsthey're all done in colored
pencil or crayon or pen.
So I've kind of stuck with thatoriginal way of creating, just
(37:46):
because I really like theaesthetic and how it looks.
And my father, he's the same way.
He gave me some of my firstcolored pencils and that's all
he uses, too, is colored pencilsto create his work, whereas
some artists today they'll usemore like acrylics, maybe even
oil, maybe even sort of thesearchival marker-based inks.
(38:11):
So you know, you see the ledger, art has definitely changed
over time, but I really likethose original materials that
people were using and creatingthese different looking forms
that are for sure stillcontinuation, continuum, but new
that are for sure, stillcontinuation, continuum.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
But but new, something that you mentioned
earlier was how you continue toparticipate.
I mean, you're doing so muchright now, right like you're,
you're in these um exhibitions,everywhere, um, and I think one
thing that has been a continuouspresence also is your ability
to continue to show at placeslike Indian Market.
(38:54):
So I'm wondering you talked alittle bit about like how you
don't necessarily quite fit into the categories but that you
continue to place at marketslike Swaya, for example how do
you navigate the tension betweenclassification and artistic
freedom?
What do you think needs tochange in the way Native art is
categorized and understood?
Speaker 1 (39:15):
No, that's really a great question.
And yeah, like I had mentionedin the beginning a little bit in
terms of Swaya, you know,entering Swaya, which you know
is the largest native markethere in the united states, even
out there, I would say, in theworld, and super prestigious and
(39:36):
has been around, you know, over100 years now and, um, my first
year getting in was in 2019.
I wasn't doing ledger art thattime.
I was doing more serigraphs andscreen printing, um, so that's
what I had started out entering.
And then in 20, I guess after2020, when you know they had
(39:58):
done the virtual thing, um,which I participated in and I
think I entered a ledger one forthat, but I think it was 2022
was when I finally got back inand entered a ledger piece.
I did this diptych ledgerdrawing that I hadn't been
seeing.
Like my father, he collages alot of documents on larger
(40:20):
documents and he's really wellknown for that, but I hadn't
really seen people combininglike large sheets and creating
diptychs or triptychs, um, andso that's something, you know.
I was like, well, this ispretty neat in that there's a, a
best of show, you know that youcan enter.
(40:40):
So, as an artist, I was like,well, that's, I want to
participate in that and I wantto submit something that I feel
is, you know, pushing my ownself as an artist, but also the
medium I'm working with and thatI'd be entering.
And so I chose to do thisdiptych piece, creating a, this
(41:02):
huge sort of window, black andwhite, super high contrast color
scheme that I went with and Igot first place in in my, my
category and I think I got evenlike my best of class or
something like that, the lowerone that you can get, and so
that was really cool becausethat was sort of just, I guess,
(41:26):
for me acknowledgement of youknow what I'm doing people are
seeing, gravitating towards that, some people at least, at least
those judges uh, felt enough toaward me first place for that
and and so that was really great, and so I was like, well, I
just gonna continue to to submitwork like this, even though the
(41:47):
definition says, you know, it'smore representational and
that's so true to ledger art.
History is that, yes, it didstart out like that and people
continue to work like that.
But to me, the general, theumbrella sort of definition is
(42:09):
of ledger art is documentationand recording, and that's what
I'm doing, and even before I gotinto ledger art with my
printmaking, I was recording anddocumenting landscape scenes
that I would come across or starstories that I would hear.
Um, yeah, and so I.
(42:30):
I think that's why I gravitatedtowards ledger art, um, you
know, so intensely at first wasbecause it was another form of
documenting and recording, andso that would be my argument is
that I'm, you know, ledger artis that's what it's about.
It's about recording ourchanging environments, our
(42:52):
changing landscapes, ourchanging experiences, and this
is what it looks like today, iswhat I'm doing.
And so, yeah, I think, you knowI.
And then I've heard people saylike, not directly, but other
people have told me, like my dad, just, that people are like,
(43:13):
well, you know what is this guydoing?
Or what is this?
You know what is this?
Isn't ledger art, maybe, Idon't know.
I just think that we need toLike they're just trying to
control that definition and keepus herded herded altogether,
like cattle or something forthis medium and I always just go
(43:35):
back to oscar howe's letter tothe philbrook museum.
You know that's what he wassaying is like we need to be
able to express ourselves andnot do what you think is native
art, and so I think, as natives,we're trying to say this is
native art now to ourselves, andso I think that's really
interesting too.
But, you know, I don't.
(43:57):
I just keep creating based on,in terms of Swaya and Best of
Show, something that I feel ispushing myself, you know, and
it's all about just me pushingmyself as an artist and and
knowing that, yes, I am going tosubmit this work to that show,
(44:18):
and knowing that, yes, I amgoing to submit this work to to
that show, um, but yeah, it'smore about just like, what am I
doing?
How can I?
It gives me a chance, though,to push myself.
I mean, it does give me achance to go larger.
That best of show, uh, eachyear, I've gone larger.
So the first year was a diptychlat.
The year after that, which was2023 was a triptych, this huge
piece, and then last year Isubmitted this quadriptych using
(44:41):
four sheets, and all of theseare framed together.
So it's also a challenge towork with framers in terms of
what I'm asking for, becausethese are all floating hinge,
you know, they're not matted, sothey, when I, when I, when I
dropped these off, it's verylike I want it to look like this
and I've learned a lot to workwith framers too.
(45:01):
I mean, I would say that forsure.
I've learned so much aboutframing and working with
different frame shops.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Wow, yeah, you just touched upon so much, especially
that comment related to likehow I've often found because I
think a lot of the stuff thatI'm pursuing is non-conventional
or not necessarily, uh,associated with like
quote-unquote native art uh andI've often found too that like
(45:32):
it's often non-native folks thatare the least flexible in terms
of understanding or recognizingwhat is and isn't Native art,
but that folks from our owncommunities are like generally
fine with it.
So in that way, like it's alittle bit frustrating, little
(45:57):
bit frustrating, but also I feellike at ease with it too,
because I'm like we can laughabout it at the end of the day,
because we know, like you know,it still gets the green light
from our own community, you knowso then you know it's like okay
, I'm just gonna keep doingwhatever we're doing, you know
so you know just these thingsthat keep me rolling as an
artist, as a full time artist.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
I was teaching at II and I took the semester off
because I have so much going on.
So you know, I taught threesemesters serigraphy one and
serigraphy two and just thissemester I was like you know, I
have have a lot of opportunitiesrolling right now in my career
that I just need to focus on andtrying to teach and be an
(46:41):
artist and pursue.
The amount of projects I'mtrying to pursue was just so
hard.
But I'm very grateful for theteaching experience I got
because you know that'ssomething I would be interested
in doing again down, furtherdown the road.
But people can always follow meon Instagram and Facebook.
They're both just at TarynLaskin, my website.
(47:01):
You know I am pretty good atmaking sure I update my
happenings and what's going on.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
The Collective Spirit podcast is produced by First
Peoples Fund, whose mission isto honor and support Indigenous
artists and culture bearersthrough grant-making initiatives
, culturally-rooted programming,and training and mentorship.
Learn more atfirstpeoplesfundorg.
Bye.
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