May 12, 2025 • 25 mins
In the first episode of our two-part series on Food Sovereignty and its impact on Indigenous communities, we’re joined by AJ Granelli, Farm Manager at Makoce Farm in Pine Ridge, South Dakota—an ally working in partnership with Lakota families to strengthen the local food sovereignty movement. As artists and culture bearers, we recognize the deep connection between food, land, and cultural survival.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The way that people come together around food, when
people share a meal.
There is something so raw andintimate, and it's how people, I
think, are supposed to connectto each other.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
First People's Fund presents the Collective Spirit
Podcast.
The Collective Spirit moveseach of us to stand up and make
a difference, to pass onancestral knowledge and simply
extend a hand of generosity.
The Collective Spirit Podcastfeatures Native artists and
culture bearers who discuss thepower of Indigenous art and
(00:50):
culture.
Welcome to the CollectiveSpirit Podcast, where we explore
the stories, movements andinitiatives shaping Indigenous
communities today.
This is the first of twoepisodes dedicated to the food
(01:14):
sovereignty movement and itsprofound impact on Indigenous
nations.
In this episode, we sit downwith AJ Grinelli, farm Manager
at Mokoche Farm, located on thePine Ridge Reservation in South
Dakota.
At Mokoche, meaning homeland inLakota, the focus is on
reclaiming traditional knowledge, utilizing the land and
(01:35):
empowering the Oglala LakotaOyate to build a thriving,
self-sustaining future.
Join us as we learn about theincredible work happening at
Mokoche, the role of foodsovereignty in healing and
restoration, and how theseefforts are creating lasting
change for the community.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Hi, I'm AJ Grinelli.
I am the Farm InitiativeDirector at Makoche Agriculture
Development, based out ofPorcupine, south Dakota, here on
the Pine Ridge Reservation.
I live a few miles away fromPorcupine in Batesland, south
Dakota, also on the Pine RidgeReservation.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well, aj, thank you so much for joining me today.
It's really a pleasure to meetyou and to learn more about the
good work that you're doing outthere.
Meet you and to learn moreabout the good work that you're
doing out there.
You know, I think I had been inconversation with some other
folks and I think you know thetopic of food sovereignty is
really like a timely issue andit's important all the time,
(02:38):
obviously, but I thinkespecially now, just kind of
given sort of our currentcircumstances as a nation and
you know, I think alsopost-COVID or during COVID, I
think a lot of us kind of cameto some realizations about
access and or inaccessibility tofood and the sources of these,
(03:02):
especially now, right Today,we're experiencing this avian
flu situation, so folks arepaying higher prices or going
without access to chicken orpoultry, and you know eggs and
so forth.
So you know food and all ofthese things are, I think,
constantly at the forefront, Ithink, for a lot of us.
(03:25):
The first question I have iscan you share what initially led
you to this work in foodsovereignty and how your efforts
are rooted in or influenced byindigenous knowledge systems,
whether from your own culture orfrom those you work alongside?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So I'll start with kind of how I got to the role
that I have right now.
We live in a pretty rural area,and really rural, I'd say.
Our nearest major grocery storeis 100 miles away in Rapid City
.
We do have, I think it's, 11convenience stores and one
(04:06):
grocery store around Pine Ridgehere and, to be honest, the
quality of food in our easieraccessible places is not as
great as we'd love to see.
And so what kind of brought meinto food production is two
(04:32):
things A the desire to eat tastyfood.
That is like that was the start.
I love chicken wings and at thenearest store we get chicken
like not all the time it's thechicken shelf is empty pretty
frequently.
So myself and my neighbors, webought 20 chickens and we raised
(04:58):
them up like baby chicks and weraised them up and we processed
them and that was a whole bigfiasco, took us all day, but
that was kind of like the launchinto food.
And so, although chicken is notindigenous to this continent,
or certainly not the NorthernGreat Plains here, I think that
(05:24):
what I do really bring in in mypassion for food and local food
sovereignty development is theway that people come together
around food when people share ameal, there is something so um,
like raw and intimate and and um, it's.
(05:49):
It's how people, I think, aresupposed to connect to each
other.
Um, I think that people foreverhave been connecting to each
other, and I don't know that Ireally um saw that until um,
until I immersed myself in theindigenous community here on
Pine Ridge.
(06:09):
I I grew up with a small family.
We didn't have an extendedfamily around.
My grandparents were immigrantsand and didn't have too many
kids, so my dad's an only childand, and so I didn't get too
many kids, so my dad's an onlychild, and so I didn't get that
feeling.
But working in the school andseeing all events happen around
(06:35):
a meal really drew me into howwe can collectively in my
community here now, just bringtogether not just good tasting
food but an economy that goeswith it.
So that's how I found myselfhere as the to make it a long
(06:57):
story short the Farm InitiativeDirector at Makoche.
And at Makoche, what we'relooking to do is fill system
level gaps to enable the largerfood system, and so, to put an
(07:18):
example to that, we have beenworking on developing a poultry
processing plant here inPorcupine.
Now, this is not necessarilychicken country.
We don't have a ton of grainoperations and a lot of poultry
is grown further east andtowards the southeast of the US,
(07:41):
of the US, and if we felt if wecan prop up that kind of
missing piece, then we canenable both entrepreneurs and
also home raised potential forother people to grow chicken.
And then kind of brings us thequestion like why chicken right,
like it's not native to thearea?
(08:03):
The thing about chicken is theaccessibility is really easy A
huge factor.
In our area we've got this likemassive landmass of Pine Ridge
Reservation, but it's someridiculous statistic like 90
percent of the land iscontrolled by nine non-tribal
(08:25):
members that don't even livehere on the rest.
So how can we start an inroadRight?
We're not going to take over100 percent of the local economy
and food system right away, butif we could grab small
percentages at a time, if we canhave people that have access to
a single acre, they can raiseall the chicken that their
(08:46):
family would would consume for ayear.
So that's such a huge step andan inroad and collectively with
with our CEO, nick, we've kindof come to that realization and
that's what we've been workingfor for the better part of the
past 10 years, that realization,and that's what we've been
working for for the better partof the past 10 years.
(09:07):
Yeah, so that's how I kind ofgot here and found my work in
food sovereignty.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And I guess, like along those same lines, right
like as a as an ally, anon-Native ally working in these
spaces, I'm wondering if youcould just talk a little bit
about how you know, like foodsovereignty being deeply
connected to tribal sovereigntyand you're out there on the land
in these tribal communities andhow it's also related to
(09:34):
self-determination, and in whatways does your work help
strengthen Indigenoussovereignty and how does access
to traditional foods impact theand we I mean people in general
are looking at internal relianceas opposed to external,
(09:59):
strengthening so many aspects oftribal sovereignty.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
So with that, like just the pride and connection to
where your food comes from, Ibelieve, is like such a powerful
thing for for any person andand the reality is that the
reservation system was set up toto be to to have a need for
(10:36):
external reliance, right.
So any way we can kind of startto erode that.
Just like on the previousquestion, we're not going to
take 100% chunk out right awayand I just last night did kind
of an informational sessionabout some of our next poultry
(10:56):
avenues and trying to get somemore folks into raising poultry.
And we know that a millionpounds or four or a million
chickens or four million poundsof chicken is consumed right
here on the Pine RidgeReservation every year.
So if we can grab 10% of thatthen that's at least a $4.5
(11:17):
million industry.
That wasn't right here.
So if we can have those dollarsto stay here, that normally
would just get sent out to Tysonor whoever.
We're strengthening the local,just everything about the
tight-knitness of the community,the economy, the self-reliance,
(11:40):
it's all about grabbing piecesthat we can realistically tackle
at a time.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
So I don't know if that exactly answered your
question, but yeah, no, that isreally great actually, um,
because, like you said, it's notnecessarily especially like
farm.
Smaller scale farminginitiatives or agricultural
initiatives are there's just noway they could compete with,
like whole foods or amazon,right, um, but when you put
(12:10):
those numbers into perspective,like that, you're're, like you
said, like sort of chipping awayand keeping those dollars and
those resources in the community, within families, you know.
So, yeah, when you put it likethat, it's like, well, yeah,
that's actually a big deal andif you do that every year, right
, and increase it, it's makingan impact, especially for
(12:33):
smaller communities, like youknow, pine Ridge or any other
native community.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
The benefit, also with smaller communities, is to
have an awareness, especiallyfor our students, our young
people, the children around, ifthey have, even if they were not
directly involved in theproduction, to know that it came
from down the road.
I think there's something to besaid about the health of food
(13:04):
by having a connection to it.
Even if you can get healthyfood from far away, there's a
mindset, I think, as you areconsuming food, that makes it
healthier.
So there is some otherconnection that I don't know, I
don't have a scientific studyfor this or anything, but I
(13:25):
truly believe if you are closerconnected to it, your body
utilizes that food better andmore efficiently.
And just the pride in that.
Like I said, I don't have ascientific study to back that up
, but I truly do believe it Justknowing the person or knowing
(13:47):
in such a small community.
I know the chicken farmer downthe road, I know the family that
raised enough corn to feedthose chickens.
That went to the person thatwas raising the chicken, that
connection and then it gets to atable of an elementary student
that then eats that and theyhave that pride that yeah, my
(14:08):
uncle was part of that or myauntie was there and butchered
the chicken and she's so braveand cut that you know what I
mean.
Like that, that is so huge, sothat that really excites me in
in what we do.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
The next question I have is as we're navigating this
current political landscape,and I wonder if, as we continue
to see indigenous lands,resources and policies under
threat, how have these shiftingpolitical climates impacted food
sovereignty efforts and whatcan Native and non-Native allies
(14:44):
do to sort of support andfortify these movements?
Speaker 1 (14:50):
So I think that policy can be a weapon and a
tool, and so what we see as anexample here on the Pine Ridge
Reservation is a bit of a lackof some policy.
So one of our initiatives atMakoche is our Chetishakui Food
(15:11):
System Alliance.
Our Chetishakui Food SystemAlliance, and our director,
tiara, is working on a modelfood code to present ideas to
the local policymakers to sayhow can we take ownership over
and by we I mean the tribalnation here over certain things,
(15:32):
if there is not a lot of timesthere's this concept like
regulation is just bad.
But regulation helps bringownership, and local ownership
too.
We don't have a tribal foodcode, so to have on the books
things that are protecting orthings that are setting up
(15:54):
avenues or legal avenues beingin a very rural area, we are
lacking a lot of authoritativebodies, so there's not like a
true county health departmentWell, that is something that
this food code that she's tryingto develop with like lots of
(16:14):
input from a wide range of youngand elder folks you know what I
mean.
Um, that we've, we've beenworking with the university of
arkansas who's developed this,this, this large.
I don't know if you've everseen the, the model food code
that they developed.
It's like this thousand pagebook of different example laws
from tribal nations all aroundthe country, and to be able to
(16:40):
use examples of certaincommunities that have already
started this process reallyopens up like a potential of
self-determination and ownership.
So, yes, obviously the externalpolitical climate is challenging
and it has been challenging forthe past 400 years, I would say
, for travel communities.
(17:00):
Right, how can that narrative,or just the idea of taking what
ownership you can to thencontinue to grow on, I think, is
the best course of action.
With that said, I'm not apolitician and have no desire to
(17:21):
be, but little pieces of policy.
Another example that we foundlike, a couple of years ago, all
of the local schools, everyyear we do, we do a Buffalo kill
and yeah, there's not a legalavenue because these are
primarily federally fundedschools to have that buffalo
(17:42):
that we killed out in the field,in the buffalo pasture, managed
by the tribe to get into thecafeteria because it's not right
.
So how can we get a policy onthe book to take ownership of
that traditional wild nativefood right out the door to
actually get into the schoolwhere our kids and our students
(18:02):
want to and deserve to be eatingthat, but that gap right so we
can look at what we can do.
Obviously, huge funding cutsare challenging and it takes
creativity and figuring out themost positive routes of what can
be accomplished.
That's kind of where I stand onthe challenges of the external
(18:29):
political climate.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
The next question I have is your work is
community-based andintergenerational.
How do you see food sovereigntyshaping the lives of current
and future generations, and whatrole do youth and elders play
in sustaining this work?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
so we do a yearly convergence and we've we've had
three convergence now formakoche and we have it right
here in porcupine.
We're not traveling likeusually when there's a small
conference or anything.
We everybody goes to rapid cityor somewhere.
You know what I mean.
Um, and the two.
There's two panels that we'vehad the past few years that are
(19:10):
the most incredible and powerfuland that was the elder panel
and the youth panel.
Um, and the elder panel, tohave the unches and cacas, the
grandmas and grandpas there andtalking about when they were
bringing back memories.
You get half a dozen people intheir 70s and remembering from
(19:32):
time in the 30s and 40s in areally rural area where they
were carrying buckets andstealing duck eggs from the
creek and stuff, and theyremember these stories when they
were kids and bringing homethings for their grandparents to
cook and prepare is like, sopowerful.
So that knowledge of justremembering connection to food
(19:52):
and, just like I said earlier,right, people gather around food
and share things and feel thatpride and then, at the same time
, to see young people having aconnection to food may be
different, right, maybe they'renot out collecting duck eggs
next to the creek anymore, butthey are still in touch with
whatever food they are, is orare consuming, bridging that gap
(20:18):
.
Although it's different,there's a lot of similarities.
So I think that by justmaintaining those generational
connections allows for our nextset of producers or caretakers
(20:40):
of the local land.
Basically Other things Imentioned about how we've had
this a few years now, ourfamilies up to 34 families now
that produce 75 chickens and wehelp them process so they can
have chicken for the year.
And the past few years we'vehad like six and seven-year-old
(21:02):
little kids for spending an hourcutting open gizzards and these
were the same kids that theygot the chicks when they were a
day old and they raised them forseven weeks and they're there
on processing.
And to have that connectionwhen you're a young person is
something that will stick withyou forever.
Have that connection whenyou're a young person is
(21:23):
something that will stick withyou forever.
I was in horticulture for awhile and plant identification
is something that I refer to alot.
And young people the younger youcan show someone a plant or
something of the natural world,they pick up things that adults
can never gain.
(21:44):
I compare it to there aredifferent languages around the
world that if you don't learn bya certain age, you'll never be
able to make that sound right.
And young people, if they havethey put the connections, get
made inside their brain thatthey will always identify
certain aspects that may noteven be able to be described
(22:07):
with language, but they willunderstand and see that and have
a relationship with it that youcan never get if you weren't
exposed early on.
And so to see just kids andtheir families engaging is like
so powerful and gives so muchfaith into or I put so much
(22:30):
faith into the children aroundof, yeah, they're going to be
good, they're going to raisetheir food and they will do it.
Yeah, it's incredible to havelittle kids raise the birds and
do the chores every day and havethat responsibility and then
not be afraid of where theirfood comes from too is really
powerful.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
The final question I have is for listeners who may
not be directly involved infarming or food production.
Right, and thinking about ourfriends and relatives who live
in more sort of cityenvironments and so on, what are
some of the ways that they cansupport Indigenous food
sovereignty, whether in theirlocal communities or on a
(23:12):
broader scale?
Speaker 1 (23:16):
I think the opportunity to share a meal is
like the single, to bring itback to the first thing we
talked about.
Sharing a meal and beingtogether around food is such a
powerful way to bridgeconnections and and find
commonalities as opposed todifferences, so that's a huge
(23:40):
step in the right direction.
And with that there's alsothere's plenty of people that
they don't want to necessarilyknow where their food comes from
, but or or intimately, I thinka lot of people kind of do.
They want, they want assurancethat it's safe and filling and
(24:00):
full of nutrients right, but tojust engage in some way in food
(24:27):
that you to kind of takeownership over themselves and
their communities.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Well, thank you so much.
That was so good.
I'm so grateful that you wereable to take the time from your
busy schedule and, you know,just share just a little bit of
the good work that's happeningat Makoche and in the community
at Pine Ridge.
So thank you, AJ, for takingthe time to talk with me today.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Thank you.
This was a lot of fun and greatto meet you.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
The Collective Spirit Podcast is produced by First
Peoples Fund, whose mission isto honor and support Indigenous
artists and culture bearersthrough grant-making initiatives
, culturally-rooted programming,and training and mentorship.
Learn more atfirstpeoplesfundorg.
The way that people come together around food, when
people share a meal.
There is something so raw andintimate, and it's how people, I
think, are supposed to connectto each other.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
First People's Fund presents the Collective Spirit
Podcast.
The Collective Spirit moveseach of us to stand up and make
a difference, to pass onancestral knowledge and simply
extend a hand of generosity.
The Collective Spirit Podcastfeatures Native artists and
culture bearers who discuss thepower of Indigenous art and
(00:50):
culture.
Welcome to the CollectiveSpirit Podcast, where we explore
the stories, movements andinitiatives shaping Indigenous
communities today.
This is the first of twoepisodes dedicated to the food
(01:14):
sovereignty movement and itsprofound impact on Indigenous
nations.
In this episode, we sit downwith AJ Grinelli, farm Manager
at Mokoche Farm, located on thePine Ridge Reservation in South
Dakota.
At Mokoche, meaning homeland inLakota, the focus is on
reclaiming traditional knowledge, utilizing the land and
(01:35):
empowering the Oglala LakotaOyate to build a thriving,
self-sustaining future.
Join us as we learn about theincredible work happening at
Mokoche, the role of foodsovereignty in healing and
restoration, and how theseefforts are creating lasting
change for the community.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Hi, I'm AJ Grinelli.
I am the Farm InitiativeDirector at Makoche Agriculture
Development, based out ofPorcupine, south Dakota, here on
the Pine Ridge Reservation.
I live a few miles away fromPorcupine in Batesland, south
Dakota, also on the Pine RidgeReservation.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well, aj, thank you so much for joining me today.
It's really a pleasure to meetyou and to learn more about the
good work that you're doing outthere.
Meet you and to learn moreabout the good work that you're
doing out there.
You know, I think I had been inconversation with some other
folks and I think you know thetopic of food sovereignty is
really like a timely issue andit's important all the time,
(02:38):
obviously, but I thinkespecially now, just kind of
given sort of our currentcircumstances as a nation and
you know, I think alsopost-COVID or during COVID, I
think a lot of us kind of cameto some realizations about
access and or inaccessibility tofood and the sources of these,
(03:02):
especially now, right Today,we're experiencing this avian
flu situation, so folks arepaying higher prices or going
without access to chicken orpoultry, and you know eggs and
so forth.
So you know food and all ofthese things are, I think,
constantly at the forefront, Ithink, for a lot of us.
(03:25):
The first question I have iscan you share what initially led
you to this work in foodsovereignty and how your efforts
are rooted in or influenced byindigenous knowledge systems,
whether from your own culture orfrom those you work alongside?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So I'll start with kind of how I got to the role
that I have right now.
We live in a pretty rural area,and really rural, I'd say.
Our nearest major grocery storeis 100 miles away in Rapid City
.
We do have, I think it's, 11convenience stores and one
(04:06):
grocery store around Pine Ridgehere and, to be honest, the
quality of food in our easieraccessible places is not as
great as we'd love to see.
And so what kind of brought meinto food production is two
(04:32):
things A the desire to eat tastyfood.
That is like that was the start.
I love chicken wings and at thenearest store we get chicken
like not all the time it's thechicken shelf is empty pretty
frequently.
So myself and my neighbors, webought 20 chickens and we raised
(04:58):
them up like baby chicks and weraised them up and we processed
them and that was a whole bigfiasco, took us all day, but
that was kind of like the launchinto food.
And so, although chicken is notindigenous to this continent,
or certainly not the NorthernGreat Plains here, I think that
(05:24):
what I do really bring in in mypassion for food and local food
sovereignty development is theway that people come together
around food when people share ameal, there is something so um,
like raw and intimate and and um, it's.
(05:49):
It's how people, I think, aresupposed to connect to each
other.
Um, I think that people foreverhave been connecting to each
other, and I don't know that Ireally um saw that until um,
until I immersed myself in theindigenous community here on
Pine Ridge.
(06:09):
I I grew up with a small family.
We didn't have an extendedfamily around.
My grandparents were immigrantsand and didn't have too many
kids, so my dad's an only childand, and so I didn't get too
many kids, so my dad's an onlychild, and so I didn't get that
feeling.
But working in the school andseeing all events happen around
(06:35):
a meal really drew me into howwe can collectively in my
community here now, just bringtogether not just good tasting
food but an economy that goeswith it.
So that's how I found myselfhere as the to make it a long
(06:57):
story short the Farm InitiativeDirector at Makoche.
And at Makoche, what we'relooking to do is fill system
level gaps to enable the largerfood system, and so, to put an
(07:18):
example to that, we have beenworking on developing a poultry
processing plant here inPorcupine.
Now, this is not necessarilychicken country.
We don't have a ton of grainoperations and a lot of poultry
is grown further east andtowards the southeast of the US,
(07:41):
of the US, and if we felt if wecan prop up that kind of
missing piece, then we canenable both entrepreneurs and
also home raised potential forother people to grow chicken.
And then kind of brings us thequestion like why chicken right,
like it's not native to thearea?
(08:03):
The thing about chicken is theaccessibility is really easy A
huge factor.
In our area we've got this likemassive landmass of Pine Ridge
Reservation, but it's someridiculous statistic like 90
percent of the land iscontrolled by nine non-tribal
(08:25):
members that don't even livehere on the rest.
So how can we start an inroadRight?
We're not going to take over100 percent of the local economy
and food system right away, butif we could grab small
percentages at a time, if we canhave people that have access to
a single acre, they can raiseall the chicken that their
(08:46):
family would would consume for ayear.
So that's such a huge step andan inroad and collectively with
with our CEO, nick, we've kindof come to that realization and
that's what we've been workingfor for the better part of the
past 10 years, that realization,and that's what we've been
working for for the better partof the past 10 years.
(09:07):
Yeah, so that's how I kind ofgot here and found my work in
food sovereignty.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And I guess, like along those same lines, right
like as a as an ally, anon-Native ally working in these
spaces, I'm wondering if youcould just talk a little bit
about how you know, like foodsovereignty being deeply
connected to tribal sovereigntyand you're out there on the land
in these tribal communities andhow it's also related to
(09:34):
self-determination, and in whatways does your work help
strengthen Indigenoussovereignty and how does access
to traditional foods impact theand we I mean people in general
are looking at internal relianceas opposed to external,
(09:59):
strengthening so many aspects oftribal sovereignty.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
So with that, like just the pride and connection to
where your food comes from, Ibelieve, is like such a powerful
thing for for any person andand the reality is that the
reservation system was set up toto be to to have a need for
(10:36):
external reliance, right.
So any way we can kind of startto erode that.
Just like on the previousquestion, we're not going to
take 100% chunk out right awayand I just last night did kind
of an informational sessionabout some of our next poultry
(10:56):
avenues and trying to get somemore folks into raising poultry.
And we know that a millionpounds or four or a million
chickens or four million poundsof chicken is consumed right
here on the Pine RidgeReservation every year.
So if we can grab 10% of thatthen that's at least a $4.5
(11:17):
million industry.
That wasn't right here.
So if we can have those dollarsto stay here, that normally
would just get sent out to Tysonor whoever.
We're strengthening the local,just everything about the
tight-knitness of the community,the economy, the self-reliance,
(11:40):
it's all about grabbing piecesthat we can realistically tackle
at a time.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
So I don't know if that exactly answered your
question, but yeah, no, that isreally great actually, um,
because, like you said, it's notnecessarily especially like
farm.
Smaller scale farminginitiatives or agricultural
initiatives are there's just noway they could compete with,
like whole foods or amazon,right, um, but when you put
(12:10):
those numbers into perspective,like that, you're're, like you
said, like sort of chipping awayand keeping those dollars and
those resources in the community, within families, you know.
So, yeah, when you put it likethat, it's like, well, yeah,
that's actually a big deal andif you do that every year, right
, and increase it, it's makingan impact, especially for
(12:33):
smaller communities, like youknow, pine Ridge or any other
native community.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
The benefit, also with smaller communities, is to
have an awareness, especiallyfor our students, our young
people, the children around, ifthey have, even if they were not
directly involved in theproduction, to know that it came
from down the road.
I think there's something to besaid about the health of food
(13:04):
by having a connection to it.
Even if you can get healthyfood from far away, there's a
mindset, I think, as you areconsuming food, that makes it
healthier.
So there is some otherconnection that I don't know, I
don't have a scientific studyfor this or anything, but I
(13:25):
truly believe if you are closerconnected to it, your body
utilizes that food better andmore efficiently.
And just the pride in that.
Like I said, I don't have ascientific study to back that up
, but I truly do believe it Justknowing the person or knowing
(13:47):
in such a small community.
I know the chicken farmer downthe road, I know the family that
raised enough corn to feedthose chickens.
That went to the person thatwas raising the chicken, that
connection and then it gets to atable of an elementary student
that then eats that and theyhave that pride that yeah, my
(14:08):
uncle was part of that or myauntie was there and butchered
the chicken and she's so braveand cut that you know what I
mean.
Like that, that is so huge, sothat that really excites me in
in what we do.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
The next question I have is as we're navigating this
current political landscape,and I wonder if, as we continue
to see indigenous lands,resources and policies under
threat, how have these shiftingpolitical climates impacted food
sovereignty efforts and whatcan Native and non-Native allies
(14:44):
do to sort of support andfortify these movements?
Speaker 1 (14:50):
So I think that policy can be a weapon and a
tool, and so what we see as anexample here on the Pine Ridge
Reservation is a bit of a lackof some policy.
So one of our initiatives atMakoche is our Chetishakui Food
(15:11):
System Alliance.
Our Chetishakui Food SystemAlliance, and our director,
tiara, is working on a modelfood code to present ideas to
the local policymakers to sayhow can we take ownership over
and by we I mean the tribalnation here over certain things,
(15:32):
if there is not a lot of timesthere's this concept like
regulation is just bad.
But regulation helps bringownership, and local ownership
too.
We don't have a tribal foodcode, so to have on the books
things that are protecting orthings that are setting up
(15:54):
avenues or legal avenues beingin a very rural area, we are
lacking a lot of authoritativebodies, so there's not like a
true county health departmentWell, that is something that
this food code that she's tryingto develop with like lots of
(16:14):
input from a wide range of youngand elder folks you know what I
mean.
Um, that we've, we've beenworking with the university of
arkansas who's developed this,this, this large.
I don't know if you've everseen the, the model food code
that they developed.
It's like this thousand pagebook of different example laws
from tribal nations all aroundthe country, and to be able to
(16:40):
use examples of certaincommunities that have already
started this process reallyopens up like a potential of
self-determination and ownership.
So, yes, obviously the externalpolitical climate is challenging
and it has been challenging forthe past 400 years, I would say
, for travel communities.
(17:00):
Right, how can that narrative,or just the idea of taking what
ownership you can to thencontinue to grow on, I think, is
the best course of action.
With that said, I'm not apolitician and have no desire to
(17:21):
be, but little pieces of policy.
Another example that we foundlike, a couple of years ago, all
of the local schools, everyyear we do, we do a Buffalo kill
and yeah, there's not a legalavenue because these are
primarily federally fundedschools to have that buffalo
(17:42):
that we killed out in the field,in the buffalo pasture, managed
by the tribe to get into thecafeteria because it's not right
.
So how can we get a policy onthe book to take ownership of
that traditional wild nativefood right out the door to
actually get into the schoolwhere our kids and our students
(18:02):
want to and deserve to be eatingthat, but that gap right so we
can look at what we can do.
Obviously, huge funding cutsare challenging and it takes
creativity and figuring out themost positive routes of what can
be accomplished.
That's kind of where I stand onthe challenges of the external
(18:29):
political climate.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
The next question I have is your work is
community-based andintergenerational.
How do you see food sovereigntyshaping the lives of current
and future generations, and whatrole do youth and elders play
in sustaining this work?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
so we do a yearly convergence and we've we've had
three convergence now formakoche and we have it right
here in porcupine.
We're not traveling likeusually when there's a small
conference or anything.
We everybody goes to rapid cityor somewhere.
You know what I mean.
Um, and the two.
There's two panels that we'vehad the past few years that are
(19:10):
the most incredible and powerfuland that was the elder panel
and the youth panel.
Um, and the elder panel, tohave the unches and cacas, the
grandmas and grandpas there andtalking about when they were
bringing back memories.
You get half a dozen people intheir 70s and remembering from
(19:32):
time in the 30s and 40s in areally rural area where they
were carrying buckets andstealing duck eggs from the
creek and stuff, and theyremember these stories when they
were kids and bringing homethings for their grandparents to
cook and prepare is like, sopowerful.
So that knowledge of justremembering connection to food
(19:52):
and, just like I said earlier,right, people gather around food
and share things and feel thatpride and then, at the same time
, to see young people having aconnection to food may be
different, right, maybe they'renot out collecting duck eggs
next to the creek anymore, butthey are still in touch with
whatever food they are, is orare consuming, bridging that gap
(20:18):
.
Although it's different,there's a lot of similarities.
So I think that by justmaintaining those generational
connections allows for our nextset of producers or caretakers
(20:40):
of the local land.
Basically Other things Imentioned about how we've had
this a few years now, ourfamilies up to 34 families now
that produce 75 chickens and wehelp them process so they can
have chicken for the year.
And the past few years we'vehad like six and seven-year-old
(21:02):
little kids for spending an hourcutting open gizzards and these
were the same kids that theygot the chicks when they were a
day old and they raised them forseven weeks and they're there
on processing.
And to have that connectionwhen you're a young person is
something that will stick withyou forever.
Have that connection whenyou're a young person is
(21:23):
something that will stick withyou forever.
I was in horticulture for awhile and plant identification
is something that I refer to alot.
And young people the younger youcan show someone a plant or
something of the natural world,they pick up things that adults
can never gain.
(21:44):
I compare it to there aredifferent languages around the
world that if you don't learn bya certain age, you'll never be
able to make that sound right.
And young people, if they havethey put the connections, get
made inside their brain thatthey will always identify
certain aspects that may noteven be able to be described
(22:07):
with language, but they willunderstand and see that and have
a relationship with it that youcan never get if you weren't
exposed early on.
And so to see just kids andtheir families engaging is like
so powerful and gives so muchfaith into or I put so much
(22:30):
faith into the children aroundof, yeah, they're going to be
good, they're going to raisetheir food and they will do it.
Yeah, it's incredible to havelittle kids raise the birds and
do the chores every day and havethat responsibility and then
not be afraid of where theirfood comes from too is really
powerful.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
The final question I have is for listeners who may
not be directly involved infarming or food production.
Right, and thinking about ourfriends and relatives who live
in more sort of cityenvironments and so on, what are
some of the ways that they cansupport Indigenous food
sovereignty, whether in theirlocal communities or on a
(23:12):
broader scale?
Speaker 1 (23:16):
I think the opportunity to share a meal is
like the single, to bring itback to the first thing we
talked about.
Sharing a meal and beingtogether around food is such a
powerful way to bridgeconnections and and find
commonalities as opposed todifferences, so that's a huge
(23:40):
step in the right direction.
And with that there's alsothere's plenty of people that
they don't want to necessarilyknow where their food comes from
, but or or intimately, I thinka lot of people kind of do.
They want, they want assurancethat it's safe and filling and
(24:00):
full of nutrients right, but tojust engage in some way in food
(24:27):
that you to kind of takeownership over themselves and
their communities.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Well, thank you so much.
That was so good.
I'm so grateful that you wereable to take the time from your
busy schedule and, you know,just share just a little bit of
the good work that's happeningat Makoche and in the community
at Pine Ridge.
So thank you, AJ, for takingthe time to talk with me today.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Thank you.
This was a lot of fun and greatto meet you.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
The Collective Spirit Podcast is produced by First
Peoples Fund, whose mission isto honor and support Indigenous
artists and culture bearersthrough grant-making initiatives
, culturally-rooted programming,and training and mentorship.
Learn more atfirstpeoplesfundorg.
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