Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Suburban, urban
country.
Get out there, look at what'saround you, figure out.
You know, is it really trash,is it really opala, is it really
waste or is it a resource?
Oh, if you start looking ateverything as a resource, we're
blessed, we're surrounded byblessings all around us, all day
, every single day.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
First People's Fund
presents the Collective Spirit
Podcast.
The Collective Spirit moveseach of us to stand up and make
a difference, to pass onancestral knowledge and simply
extend a hand of generosity.
The Collective Spirit Podcastfeatures Native artists and
culture bearers who discuss thepower of Indigenous art and
(00:52):
culture.
Welcome to the CollectiveSpirit Podcast, where we explore
the stories, movements andinitiatives shaping Indigenous
communities today.
This is the second of twoepisodes dedicated to the food
(01:13):
sovereignty movement and itsprofound impact on Indigenous
nations.
In this episode, we sit downwith Ikaika Bishop, a Kanaka
Maoli or Native Hawaiian leaderwhose work spans education, film
technology and farming.
Rooted deeply in his homelandof Hawaii, ikaika is committed
to strengthening communityconnections and restoring
(01:34):
Indigenous food systems.
Join us as we dive into theinspiring work happening at Kea
Nuenue Farm, explore theresilience of the Konakomali
community and discuss howrestoring traditional foodways
is shaping a stronger future.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Mahalo, heidi.
Thank you so much for bringingme into this space, and also
mahalo to First People's Fundfor allowing me to share some of
my insights.
I got started growing foodreally young.
My parents loved to take usoutdoors.
Three brothers growing up, wewere always usually on a
friend's farm or in the ocean.
(02:13):
Subsistence lifestyle is what Ilike to call it, even with the
cultivation of crops.
We use the word farmer, but itreally is a subsistence
lifestyle.
And I didn't quite know that Iwas really into plants when I
was younger, growing up.
I mean, I always was, but Ididn't really realize that I was
(02:34):
.
And it wasn't until after I hadbeen practicing Lomi Lomi or
massage therapy for many yearsthat I realized health and
well-being is different foreverybody.
And one thing that I noticedwas that diet and lifestyle is
something that really plays atoll on a person's health and
(02:56):
well-being.
And you know, I could massagethem and I could lomi lomi them
and they could, you know, kindof feel better about their pain
and whatnot.
But I wasn't really sure howwell that was helping with their
overall health and well-being.
You know, it was more of a justfix it as it comes kind of a
gig.
And then I realized, like allof the really older people that
(03:20):
looked healthy and lived to bereally old around me, when I
asked them like what do you know, what did you do or what do you
do, saying, oh, we grew upfarming, you know, helping
grandma, grandpa, our parents onthe farm, sometimes before
school and quite often afterschool it was their job, is what
they did for for their family.
And I looked at these peopleand they always seem so happy,
(03:44):
you know, and it really inspiredme.
And so, after I stopped workingprofessionally as a massage
therapist, I started working ata plant nursery and I was in a
lot of the memories of spendingtime with my mom, my dad, my
tutu, my grandpa, doing thethings that they love to do out
(04:04):
on the aina, on the land.
Um, it was.
It was almost like, uh, havinga little bit of that insight uh,
gave me a good perspective whenI started working at that plant
nursery, on all of the thingsthat most people were doing
wrong.
You know, a lot of herbicides,a lot of pesticides and
(04:27):
definitely synthetic fertilizers, and there's always a better
way to do it.
You know, there's always abetter way to do it, even when
you think you're doing it thebest.
There's always a better way todo it.
So, listening to a lot of theseold timers, you know they did a
lot of things with very little.
You know they accomplished alot with very little.
(04:49):
And so today that's kind of mydefinition of regenerative
practices you know being able totake a very small amount of a
resource and multiply that intoa bounty with a little effort.
So our kupuna, our ancestors,are really good at that.
They could manage theirresources in making these
(05:13):
investments.
But the return on theseinvestments are incredible.
They continue to providereturns for generations and
hundreds of years.
So that inspires me, thatinspired me early on and that
continues to inspire me today.
(05:33):
And that's the passion that Ihave to share with people trying
to look at these food systemsthat we have and know that
there's a better way to do it,and then start adopting them,
but doing it with common senseand hoping that it really does
provide for people beyond justme, my family, my community.
(05:56):
I hope that we can put theseinvestments in and then they can
return for years and years andyears to come.
And that's how I got into itand that's why I still love to
do what I do.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I'm wondering if you
could share a little bit about
food sovereignty as, beingdeeply related and connected to
you, know sovereignty andself-determination as a whole
right, and in what ways doesyour work help strengthen
Indigenous sovereignty and howdoes access to traditional foods
impact the well-being andresilience of Native communities
(06:31):
?
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yeah, that's an
awesome topic.
I got to teach a workshopcalled foods.
We called it the foodsovereignty workshop during
COVID.
I ran it for over a year and inthe beginning there was a cap.
It was 10 people per workshop.
Those people kept coming backso I had to make another
opportunity on the second dayfor the returnees and the first
(06:52):
day for newbies, and so 20people a week and I think a lot
of people on an island's biggestfear is we're going to run out
of food.
Right?
The food scarcity was definitelyan issue during COVID the heat
of it in 2020 anyway and thatwasn't really a perspective that
(07:16):
I shared.
You know, growing up,subsistence, lifestyle
everything around you is aresource.
Food is everywhere.
Lifestyle everything around youis a resource.
Food is everywhere.
In today's day and age, a lotof people go to the supermarket
because that's where they thinkfood is.
It pains me to go to thesupermarket and buy food because
(07:37):
I know that food is everywhere.
It's all around us.
We're really just educated moreand believe what we're educated
to do is to go to the store andbuy food and unfortunately,
it's getting really, reallyexpensive and it's not even top
quality food anymore.
(07:58):
You know, and I believe that ifour communities can really just
start to access the food aroundthem it's kind of a painful
concept too, because the foodaround us isn't, mostly is not,
the cultural foods that we grewup, that our ancestors were
(08:19):
growing up eating, it's.
The ecosystem here in Hawaii,anyway, has changed a lot, so we
like to label a lot of thethings around us as invasive.
Yeah, and I really do thinkthat that's oppressing our
ability to express our creativeingenuity to access these
(08:40):
resources in a positive manner.
And that is when you take astep towards self-governance,
when, instead of just saying,okay, I'm gonna continue going
to work and I'm gonna continuepaying the bills and I'm gonna
continue buying my store out ofthe supermarket because
everything around us is invasiveand invasive has negative
(09:01):
connotations.
But if we start to actuallylook at just throw everything
negative out and look at all ofthe positives, what is it good
for?
What strengths does it have?
How can you adapt its strengthsto your benefit?
Right, and so these invasivespecies.
(09:23):
We have this seaweed here calledgorilla ogle.
They gave it the name gorillaogle.
It's not.
Ogle is a japanese word andit's not from japan, it's from
the philippines and they gave ita word like gorilla in front of
it, you know, and it's like,well, when you hear people say
that word, they even say it withdisdain, oh, that's gorilla, or
(09:44):
go.
And I'm just kind of like, well, you know, like if you're out
in the jungle and you wouldn'twant it and you wanted to
survive, like, what kind ofanimal would you want to be?
Would you want to be a gorillaor would you want to be a
chimpanzee?
Like I would want to be agorilla, you know.
So how can we change that nameand say it with positive light,
(10:05):
so that people understand thatit's a valuable resource and it
can be incorporated into ourcultural practices and in fact
it should be?
One of the advantages that ourancestors had was they looked at
all of the resources with asacred reverence, was they
(10:26):
looked at all of the resourceswith a sacred reverence, right,
oh, that's the body of one Godand that's the body of another
God and that's a body of morethan one God.
You know, everything had thatkind of reverence.
And you know, today we don'tadopt that for everything.
We often look at it as foreign,and then foreign is bad.
What happens when it's nolonger foreign?
(10:47):
You know, are you going to beable to get rid of it?
They tried, they didn't.
Still here.
Same as mosquitoes, right?
Same as rats, still here.
So you know, I'm hoping that,especially with our communities
and being able to provideself-governance over their
(11:09):
natural resources, we'll be ableto create these ecosystems that
provide, and continue toprovide, thing for us to depend
on in the form of welfare.
That can be helpful in theshort term.
(11:30):
But, as we all know,governments change their
perspectives, they can changetheir methods, and so is that
really something that we want todepend on, generation after
generation?
I don't think we should,because there's already an
(11:51):
example of technology thatprovides for itself, right, and
that's our aquifer systems,systems, that's our cultural
lands of farming taro and ourcultural oceans of farming fish
(12:12):
in our fish ponds.
And you know, it's kind ofdifferent now, and I think
that's part of the problem isit's kind of different now
because there is so muchurbanization, there's, you know,
so much gentrification.
But that's the challenge.
So we're going back to the samepoint, which is, if you look at
(12:32):
guerrilla OGO as somethingnegative, then you're never
really going to access thestrengths in it.
If we look at gentrificationand urbanization as negative
thing we're always going to be,you know, feeling like it's
oppressing us, like it'sdepressing us, like it's
blocking us.
Hey, all of the rain gutters onthese houses are just like a y
(12:58):
in our streams.
They might not be as clean, butthey might be cleanable, you
know, if we just look at it assomething that is a valuable
resource, instead of trying topipe it off of the road into a
gutter, into a storm drain.
You know we can make access ofall of these things if we just
(13:19):
start to adopt these practicestogether.
So you know, we call that theahupua'a system, and the
ancestors are really wise aboutthat.
They gave everybody, thecommunity, all of the resources
that they need so that theydidn't have to go and be jealous
over the guy next door.
Right, you've got all the wateryou need, you've got all the
(13:40):
land you need.
But it's better if you sharethose resources and if you
develop them together with thesame mindset.
That's that self-governance.
Right, when the people cometogether and they're like hey,
that sounds like a great idea,let's build some taro patches
and some fish ponds.
Hey, that sounds like a greatidea, help us build some taro
patches and fish ponds.
(14:01):
Next thing.
You know, everybody's got taropatches and fish ponds.
They don't got to go to thesupermarket, right, and I think
the ultimate goal for thatreally is healthy.
Healthy and security.
Right, you're living alifestyle where you're not
sitting at a desk at a computerall day.
Every single day, you're eatingfood that has not been sprayed
(14:24):
with pesticides, from land thathas not been sprayed with
pesticides, from land that hasnot been sprayed with herbicides
.
So the land is healthy and thepeople are healthy, and that's
one of the things that I've cometo understand.
Uh, you know, there's there'sdefinitely a sense of balance
between healthy humans andhealthy land, and we can
(14:47):
cultivate the land and we canmake it healthier, and I think
that's a practice that I'm nottoo sure if people do that
anymore, but that's one thingthat I hope I see more of.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I really like what
you're talking about.
I think it's really interesting, actually, and this thing about
like reconfiguring the way thatwe recognize or that we
understand or live with thisso-called invasive species.
I think our ancestors, ourkupuna, were always able to kind
(15:24):
of recognize the relevance ofall plants all the time and sort
of their, you know, like thisis what we have, this is what
we're going to work with, andthey were becoming resourceful.
I also think something youmentioned about the ahupua'a
this thing about, you know,looking at the rain gutters and
how you related it to veryspecific ways, details related
(15:46):
to ahupua'a systems and I thinkmaybe that's part of the
disconnect is that when we talkabout these methodologies in our
culture, that we often talkabout it in ways that are
historic, we don't reconsiderlike okay, well, what are the
new applications of ahupua'a sothat all the kids, all of our
(16:06):
families, everyone in ourcommunity can be applying these
methodologies, but in thecontext that we have today,
right?
So I think those are really tworeally good points that you
bring up, but I do think thatthey're related to one another
in the sense that we are alsocontinuously living with this
(16:27):
knowledge, but living with it inways that continue to
historicize it.
It doesn't allow us to let itto evolve like it was meant to
evolve, you know, as peoplechange, as lands change, as our
climate changes, and so forth.
So, yeah, I think that the waythat you're approaching this is
really brilliant, honestly, andI guess to that sense, like you
(16:49):
know, as we're thinking abouthow we navigate the political
landscape of this currentpolitical era, we continue to
see Indigenous lands, resourcesand policies under threat.
How have shifting politicalclimates impacted food
sovereignty efforts, and whatcan Native and non-Native allies
do to help fortify thesemovements?
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I was directly
affected by that, you know,
through the NRCS support program.
Essentially, it's frozen andall communication has stopped.
Personally, I'm not really aperson that feels that
(17:39):
government funding and grantsshould be Funding and grants
should be the primary pathway toproviding for oneself.
Unfortunately, here in Hawaii,the land here is really
expensive, and so even to have aplace to farm is very hard to
(18:01):
come by.
It's rough because often, Ithink, for commercial farmers,
there's always the need toproduce more, and so if you can
get grant funding, if you canget subsidized for what you're
doing, then that definitelymakes things easier.
(18:25):
Unfortunately, that's notreally a goal for me as far as
farming goes.
I don't want to farm for money.
I don't want to farm for anincome.
I want to farm for lifestyle,health and well-being.
And so you know, with thiscurrent political era going
(18:47):
through right now, currentpolitical era going through
right now, I really hope thatmore people are able to adopt
that same perspective Grow foodfor ourselves, to feed ourselves
.
Don't grow food to be famous.
Don't grow food to make thenext best dish for a tv show.
(19:13):
Um, you're not going to getrich off of growing food, you
know like, especially not inhawaii, um.
So it should be more aboutcommunity engagement.
It should be more about, youknow, providing providing for
your family, providing for yourcommunity and, you know, even
(19:37):
though we have ambiguous futuresahead with our political
ecosystem, even more so I thinkpeople should start growing food
for themselves.
You know, even when we weregoing through COVID and the
CARES funding was basicallypaying for all of the food that
(19:58):
I could possibly grow, so right,this huge pile of money, and my
boss basically told me it's100% sold.
Ikaika sold.
As much food as you can grow is.
It's 100 sold.
And so we grew all this food andyou know, to this day I I don't
(20:19):
know how much of it was eaten.
You know, I don't know how muchof it got ate because I wasn't
actually handing it to thepeople that were eating it.
It was going on a food banktruck, which is a welfare
program, and then I never sawwho was eating it.
I would have preferred tocontinue putting it in bags and
(20:40):
continue handing it to peopleand seeing the people, because
the people actually look at meand they say, if they've never
eaten it before, the first thingthey say is what do you do with
it?
You know and I was gettingasked that question with sweet
potato and cassava and you know,or even eggplants, and we grew
(21:02):
this spinach leaf hibiscuscalled lau pele, that's another
one.
We were like, what do you dowith it?
I mean, it's food right, likeyou can get creative, but at the
end of the day, like what doesit look like?
Everybody likes most peoplelike garlic, salt pepper, put it
on it and eat it.
(21:23):
And the one question everyonekept asking was how do we help
the farmers?
How do we help the farmers?
How do we help the farmers?
But to go back to my point is,even though we were growing all
of this food, I'm not sure howmuch of it was getting eaten.
And so, number one, I think howdo you help the farmers?
(21:44):
Start growing your own food.
You know, if, if you can starta little, if you can't do some
sprouts in a jar, you know.
But start growing your own food, start having a relationship
with your food.
And I believe when people can dothat, when they can start
growing their own food, you knowthat that gives them some
(22:07):
political leverage.
You can say like, oh, because Ican provide for myself, I have
value to add to the communityand that community can support
me and I can support them and wecan start to leverage for
self-governance right.
(22:28):
And one of those things inHawaii that we could really use
support for is having our landresources and water resources
restored so that we are able tocreate these bounties, these
bountiful ecosystems.
(22:49):
You know, and that's the partthat I think it's really hard to
when you have a technology likean ahupua'a system.
It's an ecosystem, it's not afarm right.
And so, even though today's dayand age, there's a lot of
language out there that may notbe helpful for somebody who's a
(23:13):
cultural practitioner of growingour cultural crops, there is a
lot of language out there aboutecosystem technology advancement
, right, and the issue is wedon't necessarily speak that
language and they don'trecognize our technological
advancements.
So one of the job that I liketo do and I don't know if I'm
(23:37):
very good at it, but I try toact like translator I try to say
OK, you know, this is not acultural practice, this is a
technological advancement, andso once you start to have
discussions with those kinds ofwords in it, more people, more
people understand and morepeople are willing to adopt
(23:58):
those practices.
Um, I feel like sometimes aswell from myself.
Anyway, speaking from myself,um, it's easy to use the word
culture, culture, culture,practice, practice.
It's different when you startusing the word investigator and
researcher, yeah, orpractitioner.
(24:20):
It's a little bit different andI really like to use those,
especially because during COVID,most of my participants came
from the continent.
Most of them were not localpeople, you know, and I really
did want them to feel like theycould stake a claim at adopting
(24:42):
these practices with confidence,you know, and not feeling like
I was trying to shame them orput them down in any way, shape
or form, and I started adoptingthat language instead, you know,
instead of always saying, oh,this is how the Hawaiians did it
, this is how the Hawaiians doit, and stuff like that.
You know, it's great to beproud to be a kanaka maoli, but
(25:06):
at the same time, how do I makesure that I'm giving them the
opportunity to enjoy thesepractices as well?
And it was great, it was veryreceptive and I made a lot of
lifelong friendships because ofthat.
And you know, in a small sense,I feel like you know my tiny
agenda of food sovereignty andself-governance, kind of left
(25:30):
with them.
Right, they took it back toMaryland or they took it back to
Arizona or wherever they callhome, and they continue to have
these healthy discussions andtalk about fondly, about the
things that they learn when theywork with me, and that's why I
continue to be an educator andthat's why I continue to have
(25:51):
these workshops like this.
I do have one currently at aaquaculture facility in Kaneohe.
We're growing seaweed, we'regrowing our native limus, our
native seaweeds, and it's anopen invitation by word of mouth
.
People come down between 9 and11 am In fact I was just there
(26:14):
this morning and we learn aboutusing the effluent.
The water that is coming downthe stream has nitrogen in it,
has phosphorus in it, hasnutrients in it, and we pump it
into the system and it growsfood, it grows seaweed for us
(26:35):
and you know my hope with.
That is pretty much the samething.
I'm not adding any fertilizerto it.
That's extensive, it's comingfrom the ecosystem, it's flowing
through the system and it'sproviding the plant with the
nutrition that it needs and thatplant is growing into a
resource that provides us withthe nutrition that we need.
(26:57):
Once upon a time, hawaiians dietconsisted of over 20, almost
30% seaweed daily.
Today, less than one if you eatany seaweed at all.
I'm sure Very, very rare tohave seaweed in your meals
nowadays.
And you know I'm showing thesepeople like look, the seaweed
(27:17):
grows in the ocean all on itsown.
We can grow the seaweed forourselves and we don't need to
buy it.
You know, and I'm hoping thatmore people will come and adopt
that kind of a practice and lookat it as you know, and I'm
hoping that more people willcome and adopt that kind of a
practice and look at it as atechnology, right, regenerative.
I'm not bringing inputs in, I'mnot importing anything, I'm just
(27:42):
putting the plant, giving itthe space that it needs and it
grows.
And that sounds too simple formost people, I think, and that's
why it doesn't.
It's not, I don't know.
It's not cool, it's not catchywhen you say, oh, I do nothing
and I get something for it.
You know people want to hearall the complicated sides to it.
(28:07):
I think the other side to thattoo is also the output.
Right, there's definitely asacrifice at putting very little
effort into it.
Your output is relatively smallcompared to other methods.
I call them intensive.
So, adding fertilizer, injectingwith whatever to make it grow
(28:27):
faster or bigger, you know thatall comes at a cost, and where
is that cost coming from?
But also, what is the return?
Larger amounts, all right, cool.
How much of that are we wasting?
You know, I don't know that Iwant to produce more if I find
out that a lot of it is gettingwasted.
(28:49):
So if I'm putting nothing inand it's actually growing enough
for me to eat, that's great,and if it's growing enough for
two of us to eat, that's great.
And then if it's not enough forthree people to eat, hey, guess
what.
I'm doing nothing.
Why don't we get another personover here doing nothing, and
then maybe we'll get twice asmuch?
(29:09):
I mean, yeah, I'm doing nothing.
Why don't we get another personover here doing nothing, and
then maybe we'll get twice asmuch?
You know, I mean, yeah, I'mdoing a little bit, I'm rinsing
it and I'm sorting through it,sometimes to pick up things that
don't belong in there.
Um, but it's not, I'm notworking my butt off, right, and
I'm also, uh, more or lessgiving the plant tender loving
(29:30):
care.
When people ask, oh, why doesthis look like it's growing so
well, it's mostly just tenderloving care.
You put a lot of insight intothe succession of things.
How is it going to grow intothe succession of things?
(29:51):
How is it going to grow and youknow, I even look at that
mostly with governance andpolitical ecosystems like tides
on the ocean.
There's a high tide and there'slow tides, but you know that
when there's a higher tide, whatcomes after it as a much lower
(30:12):
tide, so you know everything'sgoing to swing up and down, back
and forth.
Um, I really hope that if thereare a lot of people out there,
those who are suffering, thoseare feeling depressed, those are
feeling, um, held back or helddown, the energy has to shift.
(30:34):
It's gonna shift positive, it'sgonna shift up and you just
gotta have the confidence topush through and do on your own.
Get together with yourcommunity and start doing what
you guys have the common senseto believe in.
Hopefully, that'll bring peopletogether.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Something that you
said.
As you're talking about, youknow how things went down during
the pandemic and a lot of thisfood was being sent out to the
food banks.
And then you're also talkingabout, like, how you know people
just need to like start growingtheir food and like using it.
Are you finding that?
Also, with growing the food andmaking it available to the
(31:19):
public, are you finding thatpeople are also needing to learn
how to even use the ingredients, like use the?
They have to relearn or learnhow to make their own food, like
how to utilize theseingredients.
I guess to that degree, haveyou guys been able to support
that type of learning as well?
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Yeah, heidi, that's a
great point.
A lot of these people didn'teven know what our indigenous
foods were when they were comingover.
Right Like I grew up eatingpapaya, sweet potato, ulu,
breadfruit, taro None of that.
None of these people have seenthat before.
So even for the things I wascomfortable with, um, I had to
educate them how to cook it.
(32:03):
And then there are things likecassava or lao pele, which are
even less common and, you know,strange to local people too.
Even so, I ended up falling inlove with cooking, honestly
because of this.
I love cooking, I love mealprepping and I love cooking and
(32:26):
one of the tricks that I usedand recommend today to people
because they asked me the samequestion like oh, I got a lot of
this, but I don't know what todo with it Spam, spam or
Portuguese sausage.
I found that if I just cut up ablock of spam for a big wok, a
(32:55):
big fryer to saute or stir fry,it doesn't matter what I put in
there.
I just got to put one block ofchopped up spam in there and
most people will eat you knowall of it, because there's the
spam in there.
And so I tell them you know,start off with a block of spam.
Next time use half a block Time.
After that use a quarter of ablock.
You know, and that's your youknow beginner's intro into
(33:17):
eating.
What get is what we say.
Eat what get, whatever it is,it'll taste better if you throw
a block of spam in there.
And then you start to learn touse seasoning.
You start to use less salt.
You start to use less sugar, alittle bit of vinegar.
You start to learn your spices.
I haven't gotten so far as tobegin collecting my own spices
(33:41):
from the Aina.
I know that I could probablystart creating my own spices
from whatever is growing aroundhere.
It's convenient to have abottle of cumin and some chopped
up garlic in a jar.
You know, it's definitelyconvenient.
But I think the point to all ofthis is we're not buying it
from a grocery store and it'snot getting shipped from a large
(34:04):
farm.
These are foods that areaccessible in our own front
yards, on our own backyards.
You know, in hawaii we'repretty fortunate.
We're surrounded by oceansfilled with food, but again,
people just they just don'trecognize it.
Toao is an invasive fish.
(34:25):
We have this ta'ape, which isanother labeled as an invasive
fish.
There are great programs outthere targeting those species
and trying to get them intolocal food markets and onto
local plates.
Those species and trying to getthem into local food markets
and onto local plates.
Downside is quite often they'rejust usually filleted, and
(34:50):
sometimes sashimi, sometimesmade into poke or fried right.
Rarely do I hear people saying,oh, I steamed it or I wrapped
it in a laula.
So we definitely have room tolevel up, but I'm just.
I feel like I'm just, you know,starting out with this.
I know there's a lot of chefsout there that are doing it much
better, but for me it's mostlylook at what's around you.
(35:13):
If there's a lot of it, findout what it is, and if it's
edible, find out how to starteating it.
Uh, I've got a great storyabout this plant that my whole
life I thought was a weed rightnegative connotation it's a weed
, what's good about it?
Nothing.
I've seen the plant my wholelife.
(35:35):
Then, like not even threemonths ago, I'm looking at this
channel and it's talking aboutthis edible plant and I'm like,
oh, that plant looks really,really familiar.
I'm like, wait a minute, that'sthe plant that we've been
mowing and chopping down in themountain like my whole life
Turns out it's 100% edible.
The leaves are edible, theflowers are edible, the roots
(35:56):
are edible.
The flowers are edible, theroots are edible.
Um, I don't know it by its youknow botanical name, but it was
referred to as, uh, chineseviolet and it grows everywhere.
And so the next time I waswalking through the forest great
(36:23):
, and you know why it's not on acommercial shelf.
It doesn't really have goodshelf life.
It's a very delicate, verybuttery, think of like a very
buttery lettuce, not like aleathery, tough lettuce, like a
very buttery, soft lettuce.
There's no way you could putthat in a bag and ship it
somewhere without it gettingcompletely bruised.
(36:44):
You know it'll get fullybruised, it'll look ugly, it'll
oxidize.
Nobody will want to buy that.
But when you look at it in aforest, it's beautiful, you know
.
It's lush, it's crisp, it'slight green, it's got flowers
all over it and uh, yeah, itwould be hard for me to sell
that in a salad, but I think ifpeople just were willing to eat
(37:10):
for themselves, um, harvest itfor themselves and prepare it
for themselves, um, I think thatcould be a real game changer.
Now, mind you, there's issueswith pests and diseases and
vectors for pathogens and stufflike that.
So I can see how promoting thatpractice subsistence of just
(37:32):
gathering forest plants to eatcould have a potential health
risk.
But then there's.
You know, that comes withtechnology adaptation, right,
like learning how to mitigatethings like pathogens that could
be growing on top of theseplants.
Don't just go off in the forestand start picking and eating.
You know, look at the bottom ofthe leaf.
(37:53):
Is there anything on the bottomof the leaf?
Rip the flower open.
Is there anything inside of theflower?
You know, those are things thatshould be common sense but,
like you had mentioned earlier,I'm finding that even my own
insecurities are causing me toask myself is this a safe
practice?
(38:13):
You know, I do like to goswimming in the ocean and just
start picking the seaweed andeating it.
Ok, then I talked to aresearcher a couple of weeks ago
and we've got this bacteriacalled Cigar Terra and it it
accumulates inside of our fishand if you eat a fish with high
amounts of Cigar Terra, you canget Cigar Terra poisoning and it
(38:37):
can be very, very bad for you.
Um, not realizing it, but thereason why the fish get
ciguatera is because it grows onthe seaweed that they're eating
.
So the lady, the researcher,tells me.
She's like oh, do you mind if Itest your seaweed to see if
there's this bacteria growing?
And I'm like sure, sure, sure,sure.
(38:57):
So then I asked her you know,are you guys finding that
there's more or less of this onon in certain areas?
And she's like no, it's.
It's not really certain areas,it's certain types of seaweed,
and the one that she listed isone that I like to eat, and the
one that she tested is a spacefrom where I like to eat it.
(39:20):
So even myself, I'm kind of likeoh, maybe I shouldn't, you know
, just keep doing things the waythat I'm doing.
Maybe I should adapt mypractices and get smarter about
it, you know.
So, even though I am fond ofjust going and picking and
eating, you know, maybe I shouldfind out, like is there a
better way to do it?
And the answer is yes.
(39:40):
I believe that there's alwaysbetter ways to do things.
You know, getting into thehabit is one thing, but then,
you know, remembering that youcan always learn and you can
always continue to develop theseskills is another thing, and
that's another thing that I tryto hope to pass on to people
that share these passions withme.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Just a quick question
, then, as we're talking about
working with community.
Your work is community-basedand intergenerational.
How do you see food sovereigntyshaping the lives of current
and future generations?
Speaker 1 (40:15):
And what role do
youth and elders play in
sustaining this work?
Yeah, I currently teach a classat the Wynwood Community
College in partnership with thenon-profit I work for, purple my
Ah, and it's called theAhupua'a System, and basically
it's very heavy about naturalresource management and
(40:36):
practices for regenerativedevelopment, about food
sovereignty, and you know it'sinteresting because I know
there's a lot of adults outthere that don't have the
opportunity to practice that.
But even more so, what I see isthat the children, the younger
(40:57):
groups um, my main age groupright now is ninth graders.
Uh, it's really cool to seetheir mindset catch, catch a lot
of this uh perspective and andkind of identify with it and
embody it, rather than kind oflike externally learning about
(41:21):
it and knowing that it's likeit's interesting.
What I see adults kind of do isthey're like okay, that's a
fact that I have.
But then the younger generation, they're kind of like, okay,
that's something that I do, youknow, and it's really really,
when I look back at my, at mypast and my youth growing up,
(41:43):
that was something I didn'treally understand that what we
were doing were things that wewere learning.
It was just things that we weredoing, you know, and so working
with the students now it'sreally awesome to know that
their conversations are going tobe speaking from experience.
(42:03):
We have a saying here that'soften overused but should be
used more because it's soprofound it's makahana ka ike,
which is in the working there islearning, and so in my class my
(42:26):
number one goal is to get themout on the land and to get them
working with it, even if it's insome small way.
So we went to a fish pondcomplex near Pearl Harbor area
in our of Pu'uloa andHono'uliuli, and once upon a
(42:48):
time there was 12 fish pondsbordering that district.
Today there's only three.
But the nonprofit that wasstewarding the area lost funding
and so they no longer havetheir caretaking program at this
site and they were supposed tohost me in my class and they
(43:12):
couldn't because there wasn't apaid position to host us and I
was debating whether or not Iwould cancel going to the site.
But then I remembered and I wasreminded that we can go there
without a host and we can takecare of that site.
So we took kukui nuts and wetook a coconut and we took a
(43:34):
taro plant and I had thestudents pick an area and they
had to plant those seeds intothat area, you know, not not
really knowing whether or notthey would survive, but more so
just doing the work, right, um?
And then also showing thestudents that it's okay to do
(43:58):
this kind of work, right?
Uh, we're not renting it, we'renot leasing it.
We're not claiming it as ourown.
We're not saying we own it, uh,we are just caring for it.
We are not leasing it, we'renot claiming it as our own,
we're not saying we own it, weare just caring for it.
We are going there to honor itand we are going there to care
for it.
And I think if more people canadopt that practice, you know,
(44:23):
you would be amazed at howbountiful the sidewalks around
our suburbs could be.
You would be amazed at howbountiful the sidewalks around
our suburbs could be.
You would be amazed at howbountiful our beaches could be.
Yeah, I really hope that thestudents may not understand
what's going on right now, butthey'll get older and they'll
(44:45):
realize it's not something thatthey learned, it's.
It's something it's who theyare.
Yeah, it's a, it's a part ofwho they are, and a lot of the
things that we do.
It can be done by anyone andeveryone.
Right, we all have the capacityto be doing these practices and
(45:10):
, yeah, I think my students havefun.
That's kind of the number onegoal with my class.
I said are you guys having fun?
Say, yes, kumu.
All right, guess what?
I'm having fun.
So you all get A's and that'sthe root of what I do.
(45:35):
Um, true learning comes in theform of emotions, right, and so
if we're out there and I'mdrilling them, well, sorry, if
we're in a classroom and I'mdrilling them with a quiz and
I'm telling them, nope, that'swrong, nope, that's wrong, nope,
that's wrong.
What kind of emotion do theyget out of that?
What are they going to learnwhen that's the emotion that's
driving them to learn?
Versus, taking my class to abeach where there are tide pools
(45:59):
and telling them okay, so welearned about the different mea
kai, the different animals thatare mentioned in our first wall
of the kumulipo.
Uh, they're.
They're usually like seashellsand and invertebrates and stuff
like that is in the first wall,but also limu seaweeds.
(46:19):
And I said, okay, you guys have30 minutes to walk up and down
the tide pool and find me atleast two animals that are
listed, or biotics animals orplants that are listed in the
first wall of the Kumulipo 30minutes.
Everybody got an idea of whatwe're looking for.
Yes, kumu, all right, go, theyrun away.
(46:40):
And they're all running allover the rocks and they're like
crawling underneath caves andluckily nobody slipped on the
seaweed because they all broughtgood shoes.
And I was amazed at what theywere able to find.
One student actually walked upwith a sea urchin, a spiny sea
urchin, we call it Vana here.
That's in the first wa.
(47:00):
Another student walked up withan Opehe, a limpet that's
another animal listed in thewall.
Another student came up withpipipi and every time they came
up they were like kumu, kumu,look at this.
Oh, look what I found.
Oh, kumu, what is this?
And you know what?
Sometimes I didn't know what itwas.
So even I was in awe, even Iwas having a great time not
(47:24):
knowing, and exploring andlearning with them, alongside
them, you know.
And so that's really what I tryto do with my classes.
Doesn't matter if you're anadult or a student.
The main goal is to, above allelse, have fun, share that
passion, enjoy that passion,know that we're blessed to be
able to have these opportunitiesand confident that we can keep
(47:45):
having these opportunities andconfident that we can keep
having these opportunities.
Right, and that's what I kindof hope is suburban, urban
country.
Get out there, look at what'saround you, figure out, you know
is, is it really trash, is itreally opala, is it really waste
or is it a resource?
Oh, if you start looking ateverything as a resource, we're
(48:10):
blessed.
We're surrounded by blessingsall around us, all day, every
single day, right?
Important thing to remember,though, is that, for me, anyway,
the most valuable resource arepeople.
Right, it's the relationshipsthat we have with people, with
our environment, but peopleespecially.
You know, we're the ones whoare making decisions for our
(48:32):
future.
So you got to get out there,you got to talk to people, and I
enjoy what I do.
So what I like to do is I sharemy passion, right, I share what
I do, and next thing, you knowsomebody's like that sounds cool
, I'd like to do that too.
Well, guess what?
If that sounds cool to you,then I know we're going to have
(48:53):
the right emotions going downthis journey together, right,
and so I try every day tosurround myself with people that
are cool.
Right, they like to do what Ido.
So, always reaching out, alwaystrying to share that space,
always trying to have thatdiscussion, seems healthy and it
(49:13):
seems to work.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
For our listeners who
might not be directly involved
in farming right now or foodproduction what are some ways
that they can support Indigenousfood sovereignty, whether in
their local communities or in abroader scale?
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Yeah, yeah, knowing
your farmer is probably one of
the key pathways to providingfor yourself if you can't
actually be a grower.
I know, not everybody hasaccess to farmers.
It's a tough one here in haw,hawaii, it's.
You know, it's pretty scarce tofind somebody that grows food
(49:51):
for a living.
But maybe you can startreaching out to like your
community garden networks.
So, even if you don't knowfarmers per se, maybe there are
gardener networks with peoplewho have surplus.
Reach out to them.
Even if you can't help themgrow, maybe you can support them
(50:16):
with other kinds of resources.
Obviously, money is theresource even gardeners would
love to have, but maybe evenjust helping them through
promotion right, putting a postout there or doing a video about
cooking the things that theyeat.
(50:37):
You know, I know for myself, Ireally don't ask for money for a
lot of the things that I do,but gratitude comes in many
different ways, and so ifsomebody is just kind enough to
say, oh, look what I got and Imade this dish with it from
Ikaika, that's like that's worthall the money in the world to
(50:59):
me Just knowing that theyenjoyed something that I
cultivated and it providedsustenance for them and it
provided nutrients for them, butit also provided positive
outcome, positive emotions forthem, right, they're like so
appreciative that they took thetime out of their day to make a
(51:21):
cool video and highlight howmuch they enjoyed it.
Highlight how much they enjoyedit that really fills me.
I think, most importantly,people really should try to look
at the resources around themand see if there's anything that
they can take advantage of.
You know, the less we put intothe waste stream, the less we
(51:44):
put into our landfills wastestream, the less we put into our
landfills um, the better it'sgoing to be for our environment.
So, you know, recycling,reusing um, leveling things up,
adapting things, having thatmore of a subsistence mindset
(52:05):
where you know and I'm not goingto say I'm perfect at this
either but how many times do youfill your trash, your trash can
in your kitchen and take it outto throw away?
A week?
Is it once a day?
Is it once every two days?
Is it once every three days?
And how much of that issomething, something that you,
you that you may not necessarilyneed in your life.
(52:29):
I try very hard to not use anyconsumable dishes.
We don't use paper plates, wedon't use plastic forks.
We use dishes that need to bewashed.
Now, yes, sometimes they don'talways get to be washed, but
that's okay because that's lesspaper and less forks in the
trash can, right, and sometimesit's just those small things and
(52:53):
in the end, really, really,really, really, it's helping the
environment.
You know, this idea ofeverything is disposable or
everything is consumable.
If we can really try to takethat out of our lifestyle, I
think that'll be a lot betteroff for the environment.
(53:14):
And, at the end of the day, ifthe ecosystem is healthy, right.
If there isn't microplasticsall over the reef, if there
isn't all of these pesticidesand herbicides going into the
ocean which are consumables,maybe the health of the land
(53:35):
will return, maybe the fish willstart to come back, maybe the
shrimps will start to come backin the masses of olden days of
historical times, to the pointwhere we can catch big fish from
shore.
Nowadays we don't have to goout in boats for miles and miles
and miles just to get a trophy.
(53:58):
So, yeah, it starts with eachindividual making these small
choices every day to changetheir mindset from being a
consumer, from being extractive,and adopting the tiny successes
of being regenerative, of beingcognizant of your consumables,
(54:23):
reusing, reducing and adapting.
And I say adapting because youknow I hoard stuff a little bit
over here, but when I need it Ineed it right.
I'm like oh, now I know I keptthat rubber slipper because the
door keeps slamming and it'smaking a mark on the wall, so
I'll just tack it over here onthe bottom of the door and
(54:43):
that's why I kept that rubberslipper right.
It makes me feel good.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
Um, maybe don't
collect too many rubber slippers
.
The collective spirit podcastis produced by firstoples Fund,
whose mission is to honor andsupport Indigenous artists and
culture bearers throughgrant-making initiatives,
culturally-rooted programming,and training and mentorship.
(55:16):
Learn more atfirstpeoplesfundorg.
Thank you.