Forever Knight (Season 3 Ep 17) - "Avenging Angel - Come in 81 Kilo: A Forever Knight Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Reporter (00:03):
Once again, it has been confirmed. The Metro Police
are investigating a brutalhomicide here tonight at this
shelter for battered women, thissafe house, though it hardly
seems appropriate to call itthat now. Show's over. Excuse
me. We are working here.
So am I. The location of thisfacility is strictly confident.
We have a right to be here. Thisis news.

Nick (00:25):
You're all done, dear. There's nothing more to see.
It's what you call a wrap.

Reporter (00:34):
Let's go. It's a wrap.

Rachel (00:37):
Hi. I'm Rachel.

Matt (00:39):
And I'm Matt.

Rachel (00:40):
And this is Come in 81 kilo.

Matt (00:43):
A forever night podcast.

Rachel (01:34):
Welcome back, friends. It's time for another episode of
Forever Knight episode, ForeverKnight season 3, episode 17,
avenging angel. A small

Matt (01:47):
Yet another AA episode.

Rachel (01:50):
What was the last AA f oh.

Matt (01:53):
The fix or no. Not fix. Feeding the beast. Yeah.

Rachel (01:57):
A small disclaimer before we get started. This
episode, you've probably watchedit, but just so you know, deals
heavily with, domestic abuse.And as usual, there will
probably be some laughs. We willprobably pick apart the episode
and have a really good timedoing it. Be aware what we are

(02:18):
making fun of is always thecontent of the episode and not
the theme of the episode.
So we are not making light ofdomestic abuse. We are making
light of the utterridiculousness that sometimes
pops up in nineties televisionshows. I just wanted to go ahead
and get that out there. This isgoing to be a slightly, tiptoe

(02:41):
through the tulips episode,because once again, we are
dealing with a really heavytheme.

Matt (02:49):
In the second half of season 3.

Rachel (02:52):
Yes. So Maria helpfully commented and said I was
correct. They found out thatthey were not getting renewed,
episode 10.

Matt (03:01):
Thank you, Maria.

Rachel (03:03):
Thank you, Maria. I'm glad that they were able to
finish out the last part of theseason. Sometimes when you got
canceled, you just cut flatfucking canceled. They were
like, nope. Numbers aren'tgreat.
You're done. That is why thefirst season of Buffy is so
short because you would haveshows waiting in the wing to
take over for a show that justwas not working. So they must

(03:27):
have felt like, okay, you guyscan finish the season, but you
don't get another. And they werelike, oh, okay then. All bets
are off and let's Throttle

Matt (03:40):
wide open.

Rachel (03:40):
Yeah. Throttle wide open. Fuck vampire dog. We're
done with that shit. This isn'twe aren't we aren't trying to be
palatable anymore.
We're we're just gonna we'regonna fucking go. So we just had
our check it out y'all.Jeanette's human. Site ain't
human anymore. And somebodycommented on one of our YouTube

(04:02):
videos, how come I didn'tmention the fact that she could
have died in the fire?
And I know that this was like afan thing for a while was, did
she die in the fire or did heturn into a vampire? And I
remember watching it the firsttime and thinking, wow. They
left the ending open. Like, wedon't know whether she died in
the fire or whether she gotturned into a vampire. And then

(04:24):
I watched it this time, and Iwas like, it's really clear she
got turned into a vampire.
Who else would have murdered thedudes?

Matt (04:33):
Right. Somebody murdered somebody at the station. Yeah.
Whatever bus station or trainstation where the locker was.

Rachel (04:41):
Yeah.

Matt (04:43):
And Jeanette was the only one that had a stake in what was
in the locker.

Rachel (04:48):
And she brought the painting back. And LaCroix gets
the line, I have lost a daughterbut gained a son because Nick is
now Jeanette's sire. I didn'tfeel like it was ambiguous.
That's why I didn't say it wasambiguous. I felt like it was
really well, like, reallyclearly spelled out.

(05:11):
Unless you think Nick killedthose dudes and vindicated Bob
posthumously.

Matt (05:18):
It was Lacroix, and Lacroix brought the painting
back just to fuck with Nick.

Rachel (05:22):
Yeah. He's like, oh, maybe she didn't die in that
fire. Maybe she spontaneouslyturned back into a vampire. No.
I don't know.
That's why I didn't talk aboutit because I didn't think it was
ambiguous. I felt like it waspretty clear. So if you feel
like it's ambiguous, that'sfine. Let go off. You you want
you wanna think that?
That's great. But, I don't thinkso. I think it's pretty clear

(05:45):
she got turned into a vampireunless the painting walked
itself back over, which maybe Idon't know. If if I was Jeanette

Matt (05:52):
was always there.

Rachel (05:53):
Like, we know ghosts exist.

Matt (05:55):
It was always there, but Jeanette had put a, like, mind
compulsion on him Yeah. To notnotice it. That and that
compulsion would disappear assoon as she died.

Rachel (06:05):
Well, he gave it back to her.

Matt (06:07):
Right. And then she put it in his apartment and said, you
will remember this when I die.Like, you will start noticing
this painting.

Rachel (06:16):
Listen. We know ghosts are real. If I were Jennette, I
would haunt his ass so hard.

Matt (06:26):
Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

Rachel (06:27):
Yeah. Especially for that move at the end where they
find out or, like, the wholehouse is on fire, and he's like,
Jeanette, I'll save you. Andshe's like, save the child, you
son of a bitch. Go over thereand save the little kid. He's
your actual son.
Get him off of this set. Yeah.That was quite the moment. I

(06:47):
mean, we are on the downside,and we continue on our downside.
Nick's long long, drawn out,protracted downside back into
vampire ness in this episode,but we don't find that out till
the very end.
So I guess we'll just getstarted. We open in a women's

(07:08):
shelter, and it is a womangetting patched up by someone
who is not Christina Noble fromdead air, but is in fact Laura
Stone.

Matt (07:18):
Just a chance lookalike.

Rachel (07:20):
Mentally, I like to think this is the exact same
character, and she just changedher name. Because I like to
think

Matt (07:28):
That's possible.

Rachel (07:29):
That she went through all of that in dead air, and she
realized that hosting a tawdryromance, a tawdry radio program
was not the way to go, and soshe quit. And that's the time
slot that the nightcrawler tookover. So, anyway, that's

Matt (07:49):
a little whole lot of headcanon.

Rachel (07:51):
See, anyway, that's fan canon now. So there you go. Fan
canon doesn't have to be right.It just has to be mine, and it
is.

Matt (07:58):
And fun.

Rachel (07:58):
And fun. And it is. Because, you know, how much
better is this episode if you'relike, oh, except she would be
like, oh, where's your partner?

Matt (08:09):
And Nick would be like, you look familiar.

Rachel (08:12):
Oh, funny story. My partner died in a flaming plane
explosion. Remember when thathappened? Nope. Nobody does.
So anyway, she's talking to thislady and she's like, listen. Cut
all ties with him, you know,your person for 3 weeks with the
person who is abusing you. Novisits. No calls. She says this

(08:33):
is a cooling off period.
And I thought it was interestingthat she doesn't just say your
boyfriend slash your husband.She says, whoever is abusing
you. Yeah. Which I know theywere trying to be, like, could
also be a parent, but it justfeels inclusive, I guess, to not
just be, like, your husband.Like, there's a lot of

(08:55):
relationships that can result inabuse, and it's not always
spousal.
It just tends to be. So it'sinteresting that they were like,
oh, anyone, whoever it is,whatever person laid hands on
you nonconsensually, don't callthem for at least 3 weeks. And

(09:16):
then she's walking out. She'staking her first aid kit out,
and she hears a woman screamingno down the hallway. So she
boogies on down the hallway tothe room where the woman is
screaming no.
She tries to get in. She's like,Julie. And she tries to get in.
The door is locked. And shesays, Julie, unlock this door.
She ends up unlocking the doorand going in, and there is a

(09:38):
girl cowering on a pile ofstuffed animals and a woman
stabbed to death on the floorand a broken window.

Matt (09:46):
Stage set.

Rachel (09:47):
Game set match. We are ready to go, because here comes
the intro. Badam. Badam. Rightacross in 12/28.
And then we come back, and wedon't come back to them at the
crime scene for the first timein, like, a long time. You know
what else we get this episode? Aflashback. We haven't had a

(10:11):
flashback.

Matt (10:12):
We don't get this episode?

Rachel (10:14):
Vashon. Are you counting? This is the 4th
episode of Vashon.

Matt (10:18):
Nick using any vampire powers.

Rachel (10:21):
Oh, he hypnotizes that.

Matt (10:23):
Oh, he does.

Rachel (10:24):
Yeah.

Matt (10:25):
Yeah. I was thinking this episode could just be a normal
police officer, but, nope, hehypnotizes the reporter right
away.

Rachel (10:34):
Yeah. He

Matt (10:34):
does. Than that, it's it's mundane.

Rachel (10:40):
Yeah. In the In fact in the supernatural forces. Does
not use any of his vampirepowers.

Matt (10:47):
Yeah.

Rachel (10:48):
Yeah. But Tracy is at home, and she's getting ready
for work, and the doorbellrings. And she opens the door,
and it's her little blonde mama.She's like, mom.

Matt (11:00):
What a surprise. Hi.

Rachel (11:02):
Yes. Great you're here. And her mom goes, oh, I just
wanted to surprise you while Iwas in town. I tried to get a
hotel room, but there's aconvention or something, and
Tracy goes, yeah. That's that'sthe film festival, Bob.
Like, the Toronto Film Festivalis a big deal. And, of course,

(11:24):
there's no hotel rooms, and hermom should have known that there
were

Matt (11:28):
Pay attention. Does that coincide with StratFest?

Rachel (11:32):
I don't know. I Strat StratFest is, like, half the it,
like, runs for a really longtime.

Matt (11:38):
So probably there's an overlap.

Rachel (11:40):
There's probably an actually, I don't know how I
don't know why I just spokeauthoritatively about how long
Strapfest is. I know that thethe play that Garris in this
year is opening in August, andthen I think they run through,
like, October. So it's likeAugust, September. It was only 3
months. It's part of the year.
It's just part of the year.

Matt (12:01):
I don't know.

Rachel (12:01):
Okay. Yeah. She goes, yeah. That's the film festival
mom. And then they do this hug.
Like, oh, hi.

Matt (12:07):
Very awkward hug.

Rachel (12:08):
It's like, no. Like, you know what? Actually, just fist
bump.

Matt (12:13):
There you go.

Rachel (12:14):
There you go.

Matt (12:14):
Universal greeting.

Rachel (12:16):
Yeah. And the universal greeting.

Matt (12:18):
Respect knuckles.

Rachel (12:19):
Yeah. Speck knuckles. And then
they do the afterwards. AndTracy's mom is like, oh, yeah.
Well, I have business in town,and I kinda thought we can hang
out. And Tracy's, like, well,I'm actually, like, going to
work. I work for a living, butmaybe we could hang out
Saturday.

(12:39):
And then Tracy gets a call, andshe's like, mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Does my partner know? Mhmm.
Mhmm. Mhmm. Okay. And then shejots down some notes, hangs up
the phone, and she's like, oh,god. I gotta go, mom.
Like, I just got called out. Butthe couch folds out, and I have
satellite hookup now. So you canwatch a lot of movies.

Matt (12:59):
High-tech.

Rachel (13:01):
Does she have a satellite on the outside of her
apartment, or did the apartmentsatellite?

Matt (13:07):
She probably probably there's one satellite dish for
the whole building.

Rachel (13:11):
One of the big fucking ones, Like, the giant well,
they're, like, 6 foot acrossones.

Matt (13:15):
One of the ones that was in our neighbor's yard
Yeah. That got taken down.

Rachel (13:20):
There's a movie where they get one, and they get,
like, a 1000 channels, and itends up getting struck by
lightning, and then they can,like it becomes a portal into
the TV world. And it only worksbecause the thing's so fucking
huge because they used to be sofucking huge. And you're mad
when you move into a house nowand they've got a satellite on
the outside that's, like, 18inches. But these these fuckers

(13:43):
are, like, 6 foot across, andthey would be, like, cemented
into your yard.

Matt (13:47):
Oh, yeah.

Rachel (13:48):
Like, the poor neighbors had 1, and then somebody bought
their house, and they tried totake it down, and they only
succeeded in ripping the dishoff the pole.

Matt (13:55):
And so the pole pole is still there. There's a 10 foot
metal pole sticking out of theground that they can't get out.
I know. I guess they justhaven't tried hard enough.

Rachel (14:05):
I mean well, I don't know. How deep does it go? Is it
is it turtles all the

Matt (14:10):
way down?

Nick (14:10):
Get a shovel.

Rachel (14:11):
I'm not going to find out. So, anyway, she tells her
mom, you can watch a lot ofmovies. Gotta go buy beast, and
so she leaves. Oh, actually, shedoesn't

Matt (14:19):
quite get it. Is logged in. Yeah. Watch whatever you
want.

Rachel (14:21):
Right. I've already got to be set up. You're You're good
to go. And her mom tells her, becareful. And she goes, yeah,
mom.
I'm always careful. And then wego back to the shelter, and
there's a news reporter outside.And he's like, it has been
confirmed tonight that thepolice are investigating a
brutal murder at this shelterfor battered women. This safe

(14:44):
house, though it hardly it seemsappropriate to call it that now.
And Laura is kinda coming downthe stairs just as Nick is
walking up, and he actuallystops the broadcast.
He's like, you done.

Matt (14:58):
GTFO.

Rachel (14:59):
Yeah. And the guy's like, we're we're the freedom of
the press. We're allowed to behere. And he's like, and this is
the only vampire power prettymuch that he uses this whole
entire episode, and it's to be,like, get the fuck out of here.

(15:19):
And the guy's, like, okay.
And he goes, that is, as youcall it, a wrap. He doesn't tell
them don't air the footage. Hedoesn't tell them don't come
back. He doesn't give them anyothers he doesn't stop the
cameraman from recording him.

Matt (15:35):
Yes. In my head, the cameraman is is still recording

Rachel (15:38):
Yeah.

Matt (15:39):
And has a recording of Nick hypnotizing this guy.

Rachel (15:41):
Yeah. But, honestly, I don't think Nick gives a shit. I
am kind of here for Nick's slowdescent into vampire doesn't
give a fuck in the last half ofseason 3.

Matt (15:52):
Yeah.

Rachel (15:54):
I realized that most of my favorite episodes are last
half of season 3, and this isprobably why. Because he's
walking that fine line that he'snormally walking, but he is
definitely, every once in awhile, slipping his foot off the
one side, and it ain't the rightside. And I kinda wish we'd gone

(16:17):
back and gotten some more playwith the fact that Tracy knows
about vampires, but doesn't knowthat Nick is a vampire, it feels
a little bit like a wastedopportunity.

Matt (16:31):
Mhmm.

Rachel (16:32):
Especially when we just got human factor where she
covered for his lying ass andwas like, just tell me this
isn't gonna haunt us. And he'slike, sure. I'll tell you it's
not gonna haunt us. I don't knowthat. I have no guarantee.
I literally don't care what Isay to you. And we could have
played with that so much becauseit was such a it felt like such

(16:54):
a turning point for Nick becausehe makes no attempt to stay
within the lines. He's justlike, oh, sure, Jeanette. Well,
I'll cover this murder up withyou. Oh, you have a good reason?
Well, I mean, that's beside thepoint. I'd do it anyway.

Matt (17:09):
Yeah. Where are the enforcers now?

Rachel (17:11):
Right. We forgot about them. Just hope we forgot about
that shot for the last 4episodes. But the most important
part about this scene, honestly,is Nick is in light wash jeans.
And I didn't notice.
Did you not? God, I fucking lovelight wash jeans, and I am so
glad they are back. But he tellshim, show's over. This facility

(17:34):
is strictly confidential. You'reall done here.
There's nothing more to see.This is, as you say, a wrap. And
then the reporter leaves. He'slike, okay. Cool, mister guy who
hypnotized me on.
Hopefully, this wasn't a livebroadcast. I'm leaving now. And
then we come in to find outReese is on the scene, which
makes me still feel like he's onthey're on an improvement plan

(17:55):
because Reese has been in onevery one of

Matt (17:57):
our best decisions. On this field activity.

Rachel (18:00):
Right. And so Reese is on the scene, and he is actually
talking to one of the uniforms.And he's like, can check the
broken glass out in the alleysince there's a lot more of it
out there than there is in theroom? And astute viewers, at
this point, will realize thatthe window was broken from the
inside out because, honestly,why did we include that

(18:22):
information so close thebeginning if we didn't want
people to figure it out sooner?I guess we're supposed to feel
slightly unsettled in her storythe whole time.

Matt (18:31):
Yeah.

Rachel (18:33):
Because that's such a weird detail to include because
literally any police officerwho's ever worked a crime scene
where a window has been brokenshould be able to go, oh, that
one was broken from the insideor that one was broken from the
outside. Because spoiler alert,when you throw something like a
body through a window, there's abig fucking hole and then all

(18:55):
the glass goes out the way thatthe body went. So, like, you
can't somehow jump out a windowand have all the glass in the
room. I don't know. This I knowthis is nitpicky, but the fact
that we don't pick that neitherTracy nor Nick picks this up
sooner it kind of always bothersme.
But you know what's supposed tobe, I think, is that we are so

(19:17):
fixated on the bad guy is thebad guy that we want to be the
bad guy. I

Matt (19:21):
was looking at Glass Breaking Forensics.

Rachel (19:24):
Oh, okay. Glass one way, glass the other way.

Matt (19:28):
Yeah. Yeah. Because I remember something
counterintuitive about,determining the direction that
glass was broken. I think forbig plate glass, if it's a small
thing, you actually get, like, abounce back. Like, the window
flexes and comes back, and theremight be more actual glass on

(19:51):
the inside.
But I think that was from, like,a gun shooting through a big
piece of plate glass. Uh-huh.And so they were the forensics
person was explaining that it'sit's like if you if you break a
piece of spaghetti

Rachel (20:10):
Yeah. And the center flies out.

Matt (20:12):
It it actually breaks it rebounds and breaks again. Yeah.
It was something about that.But, yeah, for bigger holes,
they're like Yeah. Just youlook, the broken glass will be
on the opposite side of wherethe break originated from.
But if there's no hole, you canactually tell by the radial

(20:34):
pattern.

Rachel (20:35):
Yeah. It'd be like walking into your kid's room and
finding a baseball and somebroken glass in on the floor and
your kid going, yeah. My friendcame over, and he threw the
baseball through the window, andthat's how it got broke. Like,
he he

Matt (20:48):
We were throwing the baseball in the room.

Rachel (20:49):
In my room, and it got thrown through the window. And
that's how it got broken, andyou're like, cool. Because your
friend's an asshole, and I wanthim to be the bad guy. Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a kind of I mean,basically, it's because the bad
guy is an abusive spouse and anabusive father, and he's a very

(21:10):
easy bad guy. It's kind of likeundue process if if there was
ever any doubt as to who wasguilty in undue process. The one
where Natalie loses hergoddaughter because that guy
kidnaps her and kills her. Alittle bit like that. We just
knew who the bad we just knowwho's the bad guy because he's
gross, and he's bald, and youcan tell he's the bad guy.

(21:33):
And, we're probably not gonnaget into it because this is such
a multilayered conversation tohave about the fact that this
man was guilty of, domesticabuse. He was guilty of child
abuse. He has, in the narrativeof this story, gotten help and

(21:56):
gotten better and is no longerdrinking and has sought, like,
treatment, has done the work.And he comes back to apologize
to his wife, and his wife wantsto apologize wants him to
apologize to their daughter andwants their daughter to forgive
him. And this is a reallycomplicated narrative because it

(22:17):
gets into the nature of, do weowe anyone reconciliation?
How much how far does one haveto go before you are
irredeemable? Right. And doesthe fact that you have committed

(22:39):
what could easily be perceivedas an irredeemable crime make
you just, in general, guilty?Does he deserve what happens to
him at the end or not? And Iactually watched an episode of
the dead zone because it's onTubi, and it has Reese in it.

(23:00):
It has Blue Mancun in it. And soI was like, oh, yeah. I won't
like that one. So I watched it,and it's really good. And,

Matt (23:05):
I I knew you were gonna bring up

Rachel (23:08):
Well, that's episode of that's good. Relevant. It feels
relevant because, John Smith

Matt (23:13):
guy isn't actually a bad guy. He did commit a crime, but
not this crime.

Rachel (23:18):
This crime. So John Smith ends up being on the jury.
And if you don't know what thedead zone is, this guy gets into
a car accident. When he wakesup, he's psychic, basically. He
can touch things, and he can seethings about it.
Sometimes it's the future.Sometimes it's the past. And
he's a well known

Matt (23:33):
Sometimes it's metaphorical.

Rachel (23:35):
He's a well known psychic. He doesn't hide it. And
he ends up on this jury, and heknows that this guy is not
guilty. He doesn't know who didit, but he knows that the man on
trial is not guilty. And one ofthe jury members is Joe Rees,
aka blue man Kuma.

(23:55):
And so I watched it. That's whyI watched it. But the
interesting thing I thoughtabout this episode, and one of
the reasons it stuck with me fora long time, is the guy who is
on trial is not a good dude. Heis not a good guy. He is guilty
of other crimes, but not thecrime that he is currently being

(24:19):
tried for.
And so they end up acquittinghim through a series of events
where they find more evidence,and they come up with a
reasonable doubt. And they keepsaying, like, well, that doesn't
prove anything. It doesn't provehe didn't do it. And they keep
repeating, it doesn't matter. Wedon't have to prove who did it.

(24:41):
We just have to have areasonable doubt that he's not
the one who did it. He can onlybe guilty if we believe beyond a
reasonable doubt that he isguilty. And it's relevant to
what we're talking about herebecause is this man guilty?

(25:02):
Correct.

Matt (25:03):
All the circumstantial evidence and the claims that
they have point to this guy isguilty.

Rachel (25:11):
Well and he has done things in the past that would
make you consider him a guiltyman, but he is not guilty of
this particular crime.

Matt (25:22):
Right.

Rachel (25:23):
And this particular crime is the only thing they are
actually investigating. Shouldbe the only thing they are
actually investigating.

Matt (25:35):
Right.

Rachel (25:36):
So I think that they very quickly lose sight of that
because they become veryemotionally caught up in this.
And even Tracy says that. Shegoes, I know we're supposed to
be we're supposed to beimpartial. Like, we're supposed
to reserve judgment. And I'mreally struggling that with that

(25:56):
this time.
And yet at no point does anybodyrecuse themselves from the
investigation because they thinkthey're too emotional about it.
So there's a lot happening here,and not a whole lot of it feels
real, good. Feels real realclean, if you wanna for a lack
of a better word. In fact, Tracyeven gets metaphorically and

(26:19):
literally dirty at one point,but we'll get there. So, of
course, we're at the crimescene.
So Natalie is just standing bythe body waiting for someone to
walk in with in radius so shecan announce the cause of death
and then leave the scene. SoNick walks over, and Natalie
goes, I stopped counting it 20stab wounds. I don't know what

(26:40):
kind it what kind of knife it isexcept that it's sharp. And then
she just leaves, and she soundsso pissed. She sounds so pissed,
and I don't know if it's because

Matt (26:52):
the last episode just

Rachel (26:53):
well, no. The last episode just happened. I mean,
come on. He brought his vampiregirlfriend in for her to patch
up. And then he was like, oh,no.
No. We're not gonna have toworry about her anymore. And
then Natalie is like, oh, aren'twe? And it turns out the body
sitting right in front of herwas killed by a vampire. So
Natalie has a pretty good leg tostand on for being really,

(27:16):
really pissed off at him rightnow.
But then she walks out of theroom and she actually walks by
Tracy without even acknowledgingher. They just, like, pass.
Natalie walks out. Tracy walksin. Tracy says that there's an
APB out, and everyone in theWestern Hemisphere has this
guy's picture.
And Nick takes the

Matt (27:35):
sheet. Manhunt.

Rachel (27:36):
Nick takes the sheet. He just glances at it, and he goes,
he has 3 priors for spousalabuse, and he had a fine
community service andcounseling. Did a lot of good.

Matt (27:49):
And it actually did.

Rachel (27:50):
I mean, I,

Matt (27:52):
I mean, from from the premise that in our I guess, one
premise of the Western criminaljustice system is that everyone
should get a second chance.Yeah. A chance to redeem
themselves. And I guess part of,like, western society

(28:15):
philosophical premise.

Rachel (28:16):
Rehabilitation. Yeah.

Matt (28:18):
Yeah. You get a 4th chance? I don't know.

Rachel (28:23):
See, this is when it gets real murky.

Matt (28:25):
Right. Because this guy

Rachel (28:26):
This is when the whole justice system gets real murky.
If you have a repeat offender,no matter how many times

Matt (28:31):
you are the person that did it. If you believe that you
actually have an opportunity toimprove yourself and, like,
become a better person again

Rachel (28:45):
Yeah.

Matt (28:45):
That that's possible, then some people actually do it.
Yeah. But it doesn't obligateanybody to forgive you.

Rachel (28:56):
No. And then you end up in a situation like this guy
where because of the things thathe has done in his past and
because of the record that hewill carry with him for the rest
of his life, he does immediatelyget assumed guilty. They are not

(29:18):
trying to figure out who did it.They are just trying to prove
that this guy did it. Mhmm.
And that is actually wildlyunfair to him because he paid
his debt. There is no obvious Imean, besides the the baggage

(29:39):
that would indicate he I mean,of course, your your first
thought is gonna be, oh, thisguy probably did it because it's
something that he's done in thepast. Mhmm. But if he is this is
where we get into the murky. Ifdo we have repeat offenders
because they actually repeatoffend or because once you are
convicted once, twice, 3 times,you're more likely to be

(30:00):
convicted the 4th, 5th, and 6thtime because everyone already
assumes you're guilty, andthat's why he runs, which again
doesn't help.
Like, if they found him in theroom standing over her body,
what are they gonna assume? Thathe killed her. And he runs, so
what do they assume? That hekilled her. He didn't have a lot

(30:22):
of choices.
He Right. He did what he thoughtwas the best thing to do in that
moment. And that was save hisass. Jump out the window, keep
his daughter from killing him,because, of course, we find out
that she's the bad guy or she'sthe the murderer at the end. And
it we even kinda talk about itin the later in the episode when

(30:47):
we get the prosecutor, where theprosecutor is like, she's an
unreliable witness.
She has drug. She has a historyof drug abuse.

Matt (30:56):
Reminds me of the episode where the it was, like, the pop
star lady who was in therapy,and she was getting brainwashed,
like, manipulated into killingall the people that she
perceived that had wronged herYeah. Including wasn't it wasn't
she gonna kill her parents too?

Rachel (31:18):
I think their parents were gone. She was gonna Or

Matt (31:22):
she was gonna kill her brother. Herself. Herself.

Rachel (31:24):
She killed her brother.

Matt (31:26):
She

Rachel (31:26):
killed her press agent. She was going to kill herself.
Oh, she killed her mother too.That was the first person she
killed. Yeah.
Yeah. It's except she didn'tknow she was doing it. And,
ultimately, they don't eventhink she's even though she
straight up murdered 4 people,they they accused the

(31:46):
psychiatrist because

Matt (31:48):
he's the one who like coercing her.

Rachel (31:50):
Of coercing her.

Matt (31:51):
Yeah.

Rachel (31:53):
Yeah. And yet in this one, they're immediately like,
oh, it was that the dude. It wasthe dad, which, I mean, you can
see where they're coming from,but, also, the purpose of the
police in that moment should be,no. We're going to find the
person who did it. He is asuspect.
He is a good suspect, but he isjust a suspect. He's not the

(32:14):
murderer until we prove he's themurderer.

Reporter (32:16):
Right.

Rachel (32:18):
Which is what Laura's Laura gets caught up in. Yeah.
And it's that this guy is thebad guy. Clearly, he's the bad
guy to the point where she kindatrauma shames Julie Julie a
little bit, and it gets a littlethere is a lot happening in this
episode, and I don't knowwhether this episode is
intentionally murky like this. Ikinda hope it is because I love

(32:42):
episodes like this where youdon't know who's doing the right
thing, and it really makes youthink about the situation and
about what's happening.
Because Tracy isn't really doingthe right thing, She puts her
gun on that guy's head and tellshim, you know, give me a reason,
you son of a bitch.

Matt (33:03):
Mhmm.

Rachel (33:04):
And Nick allows this guy to die. He knows he knows that
Laura is going after him with agun because he found that
bullet. And then he hears, oh,shots fired outside this hotel,
and he knows where he wasstaying because he sent the he

(33:26):
sent the people there, thetechnicians there to go process
his room. Yep. So he's fullyaware that that's that guy, and
he doesn't do anything about it.
So nobody was really there wasno white knights in this
episode. And I think if we'd hadmore of these

Matt (33:45):
Well, there was one white knight.

Rachel (33:48):
Not Caucasian Nicholas. I'm talking about, like, a good
guy. You know? There was no,like, I'm the I'm the good guy
in this episode, and I love it.And I feel like if we'd had 22
episodes like this, we mighthave forever night season.
It could have been supernatural.It could

Matt (34:08):
still be going. 30 years later.

Rachel (34:11):
Why did we lead with Vampire Dog? Vampire Dog should
be what came after we found outwe were canceled, not not AIDS,
domestic abuse, fraud, like, allof the things we've been
covering up until now. But,anyway, I know we kinda went
off, but, really, this this iswhat I'm talking about. This

(34:33):
episode invites a lot ofdiscussion because of the
subject matter, because of theway it's handled, and I really
like that there are nosolutions. Nobody solves
anything in this episode.
Mhmm. It would feel cheap ifthere was one quick, clean
solution to domestic abuse. Ifwe knew what that was, we'd have

(34:55):
already done it. So I love thatthere isn't one. It's just sort
of like everybody thought thatthey were doing what they should
be doing, and in the end, nobodydid the right thing.
Julie didn't do the right thingby killing her mother. Her dad
didn't do the right thing byrunning away. Laura doesn't do
the right thing by killing theguy who wasn't actually the
murderer. Nick doesn't do theright thing by letting her kill

(35:18):
him and then coming back to theprecinct and immediately finding
out that it he was not the badguy. The only person who doesn't
actually actively fuck it upthis episode is Natalie.
Yeah. Yeah. So so Nick takesthis sheet from Tracy, and he's
like, yeah. Fine communityservice counseling. And then he

(35:40):
just leaves.
Like, he's not a reformed serialkiller himself who got none of
these things.

Matt (35:46):
Yeah. This should be a microcosm of Nick's journey for

Rachel (35:56):
Journey of redemption?

Matt (35:57):
Redemption. That's the word I was looking for.

Rachel (35:59):
I think season 1 and season season 3, Nick, is like,
fuck it. We're all guilty.Everybody's guilty. I hate
myself. I hate you.
I hate that guy.

Matt (36:17):
I can't even change. That's why I'm drinking human
blood again.

Rachel (36:20):
Yeah. All change is temporary. I fucking hate
everybody. I mean, that's thisis cynical end of season 3,
Nick. I'm I'm sort of here forit, so it's fine.
Yeah. It just feels like thiswas a moment for him to be like,
yo, come on. We don't need tojudge everybody. But instead,
he's like, oh, I'm judging. I'mjudging all over the place.
I'm just gonna take my judge abig scoop of judgment, and I'm

(36:43):
just gonna smear it all overeverybody is what he does. And
then Laura comes up to Nick, andshe does thank him for telling
the cameras to fuck off. Shewatched him hypnotize this guy
into leaving, but maybe it justlooked like they had a real
intense conversation. I mean, ifyou don't hear the heartbeat
sound, it really looks like youlooked at him and was like,
that's a wrap. And the guy'slike, fucking fine and leaves.

(37:05):
So to be fair from the outside,it doesn't always look like
hypnotism, which is why hesometimes gets away with it.

Matt (37:11):
Right.

Rachel (37:11):
It would be better if he could do it like LaCroix does it
where he's like, hi. Let me putsomething very persuasively, and
you're just gonna agree. Yeah.

Matt (37:20):
It's not what Nick does it like the spell command in d and
d where you make an explicitstatement as a, like, magical
suggestion to the other person.And then Leclerc comes along,
and he's like,
oh. It's more like charm. Yes. Yeah.

Rachel (37:39):
Yeah. Nick casts command. Lacroix casts charm.
And charm is far more effectivebecause it makes the other
person want to agree with you,and command is just success or
failure. Either you either theywrote succeed in a wisdom check
and they don't believe you andthey don't do what you say or
they fail their wisdom check andthey do it.

Matt (37:59):
And I think command, the person knows that you commanded
them, and charm, there's achance that they don't even
notice that you charmed them.

Rachel (38:07):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's actually the most accurate
description I could think of.Because once command wears off,
you know it happened.
Like, you know you did somethingyou didn't wanna do at, like,
in, close call when Skanky islike, wait a minute. I did see
somebody flying. Why did I say Ididn't? That's really weird. But

(38:27):
Tracy says she's gonna takeJulie to the ER to get her
checked out, and then she'sgonna take her to the station.
And Nick suggests to Laura thatshe can come too, because if
Julie's gonna make a statement,she's probably gonna want
somebody there to support herjust to be a safe space for her
while she's there, which is agood suggestion, so she takes
it. And Laura's like, yeah.Yeah. I think that's a good

(38:48):
idea. I guess you're I this youknow, you never

Matt (39:00):
that there's a a uniform assigned to the Yeah. The
building. So Laura has a littlebit more confidence that, oh, if
I go, there's there's still apolice officer here.

Rachel (39:13):
Right. But the police officer isn't a counselor. The
police officer isn't apsychiatrist. The police officer
isn't the female point ofcontact that all of these abused
women have been seeing.

Matt (39:23):
And the police officer walks down the street to the
corner shop. No.

Rachel (39:27):
No. No. The lady does. The lady does. The police
officer is still standing there,but the lady walks

Matt (39:32):
Oh, no. I mean, later when the other person attacks.

Rachel (39:35):
Oh, he's not at the corner store. The lady goes to
the corner store. You're talkingabout later when that lady gets
attacked.

Matt (39:41):
Yeah. And
they say, well, other than what they
were doing. There.

Rachel (39:43):
Yeah. No. The woman left and went to the corner store and
got beaten up. At the cornerstore? Yeah.
Or got followed back home?

Matt (39:51):
No. Because she got I think the uniform went down to
the corner store

Rachel (39:56):
Yeah.

Matt (39:57):
And the person broke into the building.

Rachel (39:59):
Look. Mistakes were made.

Matt (40:00):
Yes.

Rachel (40:00):
Okay? Somewhere along the also, the police officer

Matt (40:03):
was misled into feeling confident about leaving the
building.

Rachel (40:07):
Yeah. Also, the police officer standing outside the
front door like, hey. If youweren't sure which one the
address was,

Matt (40:13):
it's this one y'all.

Rachel (40:14):
It's this one y'all. And they could have left a female
uniform. I feel like that wouldhave been a little bit more
sensitive. But this is thenineties, and they're doing
their best. So anyway, we'llcover that later when Laura's
like, no.
I don't think I need to go back.I think I need to sit here with
this one specific person, notthe, like, half a dozen other
women that are in my shelterright now who I also have an

(40:35):
equal responsibility to.

Matt (40:36):
Mhmm.

Rachel (40:36):
It's fine. But she asks Nick, I guess you're used to
this. And he goes, actually, youknow what? You never get used to
it. And then we use

Matt (40:44):
Even as a perpetrator.

Rachel (40:46):
Oof. I know. Nick doesn't yeah. I mean, that's a
it's a slippery slope is whatthat discussion is. And so we
get a flashback right here, andit's like a cockfighting ring.
For some reason, Nick and I lovehow Nick is always like, I
fucking hate you, and I neverwanna be with you. And then in
all the flashbacks, they'rehanging out and doing shit

(41:08):
together.

Matt (41:09):
Yeah. They're just casually socializing. Yeah.
Going out on the town together.

Rachel (41:13):
Yeah. It's like he hates him, and then Lacroix calls up,
and he's like, hey. You wanna goto this cockfighting thing? And
Nick is like, fine.

Matt (41:20):
You're my only friend.

Rachel (41:21):
You're my only friend. I guess we'll go. I have been
lonely. So they go to thiscockfighting ring, and for god's
sake, we walk around with theseroosters forever. They're like
it's like 20 minutes of, like,walking the rooster around,
gently lowering it into the pit,pulling it back out so we can
hold it and roll, like, hold itaround again.
And having had personalexperiences with a rooster, I

(41:43):
feel differently aboutcockfighting than when I had
never met a rooster. Those dudesare assholes. Roosters are
fucking assholes. I don't thinkcockfighting's great. I don't
endorse cockfighting at all,but, also, I absolutely believe
that these roosters are intothis and wanna do this.
If you've met a rooster, youknow what I'm talking about.

(42:03):
Unless you're Matt and therooster is so intimidated by
you, it almost breaks its neckon a chain link fence.

Matt (42:08):
Yeah. Yeah. I I have a certain effect. You you have On
poultry.

Rachel (42:18):
Listen. We all have skills.

Matt (42:21):
Put that on your resume. It it knows how I feel about
bone in chicken.

Rachel (42:28):
Matt hates bone in chicken. Too many years cleaning
bone in chicken for restaurants.

Matt (42:34):
It's it's a sense of disgust.

Rachel (42:36):
Yeah. Not hate. They're at this cockfighting ring, and
Lacroix is like, oh, yeah. I gotsome money on that one. Like,
this is gonna be good becauseNick is like, this is barbaric.
And he goes, it's better thatthey die a warrior's death in
the ring than die at thebutcher's hand.

Matt (42:51):
To Valhalla. What what does what does chicken Valhalla
look like?

Rachel (42:59):
Just endless open fields, sand pits to dig holes
and Hands. Chicken bath.

Matt (43:04):
Hens abound.

Rachel (43:05):
Hens about hens that don't pack you when

Matt (43:06):
you try to cook.
Heterosexual hens.

Rachel (43:18):
My mom has chickens. I don't know. I feel like maybe we
need to explain our we we havewe have chickens effectively
because my mom has chickens, andtherefore, we have chickens. And
we raised these chickens and putthem in this little coop, and
there is one rooster. And,normally, you have to have an
excessive number of hens toroosters because roosters are
amorous little fuckers,literally.

Matt (43:40):
And And they wear the feathers off the back of theirs.

Rachel (43:42):
Wear the feathers off the back of a hen because they
are insatiable. I mean, they'vethey have 2 jobs, and it's to
die for their hands, and it's tofuck their hands at every
opportunity. And they do bothwith glorious relish. So,
normally, you have to have

Matt (43:56):
Unless I go into the yard. Normally,

Rachel (43:59):
it was like, I can't I can't compete. You won the cock
fight, honey. So, normally, youhave to have, like, 9 hens. My
mom has, like, 5 hens because or4 hens because none of them will
let the rooster one one will letthe rooster do his business. The
rest are like, don't fuckingtouch me.
So I've taken to calling themlesbian hens, and my mom calls

(44:20):
them lesbian hens becausethey're like, sorry, but I'm not
into that.

Matt (44:24):
You're not my type.

Rachel (44:25):
You're not my type. So they peck him and he runs off
like, I had to shoot my shot.You understand? You know, it's
biological. Anyway, back to theactual episode.
LaCroix is like, you know,warrior's death, chicken
Valhalla. There we go. So Nickis like, mhmm. Okay. Well, I
don't really agree with you.
Then they hear a woman screamingand he's like, now I am invested

(44:46):
in this event. So he runs afterwhere the woman is screaming and
she's getting pushed around byher quote master because she's a
concubine, and this is in China.And we get some awkward Mandarin
slash whatever. I don't know. Ican't hear the difference
between the dialects.
So we get some awkward Chinesedialect, including from Nick,
which is mercifully brief,because then he switches to

(45:07):
English. And he's like,honestly, if you hurt this lady
again, I'll fucking kill you.And LaCroix goes, trust me. He
means what he says. So this mustbe greater than a 100 years ago.
Oh, wait. Actually, I think weforgot about that.

Matt (45:20):
Yeah. We're not we're not holding that.

Rachel (45:22):
Yeah. We're not holding that. So Nick tries to hypnotize
the woman into protectingherself, because the guy runs
off. And he's like, if you don'thave anywhere to go, you can
come stay with me. I'm way saferthan that, dude.
And she's like she's like, no.No. I think I really need to go
back. And he's he, you know,hypnotizes her into, don't go

(45:43):
back. Stay with me.
I'll keep you safe. And she'slike, no. He lose he fit she she
succeeds at her wisdom check.

Matt (45:52):
She

Rachel (45:52):
doesn't stay with him. And LaCroix is like, your powers
of suggestion need honing andyour gallantry is misplaced. And
he goes, she has nothing withouthim and she knows it. In fact,
she'd have more rights tofreedom if she were his dog. Can
we go back to watching the fightnow?
He does not care. Anyway, themost important part of this

(46:13):
flashback is their outfits.They're, like, fancy Victorian
outfits. At least they are notin, like, period and location
specific costume.

Matt (46:23):
Well, I'm I got the impression that this was more
like a Chinatown in the US.

Rachel (46:28):
Oh, it could have been. Let's go with that. Let's go
with that.

Matt (46:31):
Yeah.

Rachel (46:32):
But we come back to the station, and they're
interviewing Julie becausethey've got Julie to the station
now. And I love her cardigan.I'm just gonna say it. Her,
like, oversized cardigan, Iwould totally wear that. And
she's giving her her story,which is that she tried to get
her mother to leave her dad assoon as she could talk, because

(46:54):
her first memory is watching himbeat her unconscious.
And she goes, yep. Just one bighappy family. And they're like,
okay. So can you tell usspecifically what happened
today? And she says that her dadfollowed her mom when she came
to drop off some clothes at theshelter because she left her
house in a hurry.
She didn't get a chance to takeanything with her, And so she

(47:15):
needed somebody to bring hersome extra stuff. And Tracy is
like, oh, was he coming back tobeat you again? And she goes, no
to rape me. And of course wehave the like, Oh, I mean, of
course we do because that's a,this is a heavy episode. We get
into some pretty heavy themesand we don't really sugarcoat

(47:40):
it, and we don't couch it.
Like, we don't offset it withany humor. It's all dark. And
after we have

Matt (47:50):
the The the b story is Tracy's alcoholic mother is
getting divorced from herfather, and that's our that's
our relief from the main storyline.

Rachel (48:03):
Yes. Correct. That's that that's our, like this is
the where we should have askanky subplot Mhmm. Where he's
slightly dealing with what'shappening, but also, like, we
get a cute Myra story

Matt (48:16):
Right.

Rachel (48:17):
About, like, a healthy relationship. This would be the
moment for that, but instead,it's like, y'all, every
relationship is fucked up.

Matt (48:25):
Look. May maybe this could have been offset by Vashon
requiring Tracy to help him withsomething goofy.

Rachel (48:33):
I don't know. I don't even think Vashon could make
this episode lighthearted, and Idon't think it needs to be. I
think it's okay to let us livein this

Reporter (48:41):
Yeah.

Rachel (48:42):
This mire of

Matt (48:43):
I was just thinking what would be the season 3 version of
a skanky subplot, and

Rachel (48:47):
It would be.

Matt (48:48):
I jumped to a Veshaun.

Rachel (48:49):
It'd be Veshaun and Erz getting up to shenanigans. Yeah.
Yeah. But I don't know. MaybeVeshaun's off mourning because
his best friend died.
His best friend for, like, 400years died. Screed? Yeah.
Screed? Yeah.
That guy. He died, like, 4episodes ago the last time we
saw Vashon, actually. So afterwe have that revelation, we go
to see Laura, and she's in thatcinder block room that's outside

(49:12):
the the the room of consequence,the room where we have all of
our deep and meeting meaningfuldiscussions, the cinder block
room. And Laura's like, youknow, as long as he's out there,
as long as her dad is out there,Julie is in danger. And Nick is
like, well, we could put herunder protective custody until
he's found.
And Reese says, if he's the onewho did this to her, and Laura

(49:36):
responds, you don't think he'sthe one who did it? And so Reece
says, well, jury's still out.He's actually innocent until
proven guilty. So I mean, whichis all accurate and true.

Nick (49:44):
Yeah. We could put her under protective custody until
he's found. If he's the onewe're looking for.

Matt (49:51):
You don't believe he did this, do you?

Nick (49:54):
Jury's still out in this

Matt (49:56):
stuff. Did you look at his record?

Nick (49:58):
Yes. I did. We got a long way to go before we can make a
case against Jack Henderson. Youknow the law in these areas as
well as anyone, miss Stone.

Rachel (50:09):
And I have to wonder, like, I think partly this is a
budget issue. Like, we didn'twanna budget for a safe house. I
mean, at this point, we'recanceled. We got the money we
got. Right?
Which is probably why we haven'thad a flashback in 2 episodes
because we had that flashbackwhere they had, like, fake
columns, and they had the trunkhose, and they had the bed and
the fire and the I mean, we hada pretty big budget flashback,

(50:33):
and then we sorta offset it byhaving no flashback for 2
episodes.

Nick (50:36):
Yeah.

Rachel (50:36):
Because there's actually no reason why they couldn't
release her with a securitydetail and then call her back in
when they wanna talk to heragain.

Matt (50:45):
Right.

Rachel (50:46):
Because really all Reese wants to do is make sure
somebody keeps an eye on her,and a security detail would be
an effective means of keeping aneye on her. And, honestly, they
could sell that this guy is apotentially dangerous suspect
and that she should be protectedbecause he does have prior
convictions for assault, whichwould give them reasonable cause

(51:08):
to ensure her safety. And theyaren't specifically protecting
her from him. They areprotecting her from whoever
harmed her mother.

Matt (51:17):
Right.

Rachel (51:18):
So, I mean, they have reason to believe that whoever
harmed her mother may also wannathey like, there's literally no
reason why they couldn't giveher a security detail and let
this woman go sleep.

Matt (51:28):
Right. Or or even just put a cot in the room.

Rachel (51:31):
Yeah. Oh, they don't send her down to lock up.
Nothing.

Matt (51:34):
Right.

Rachel (51:36):
Yeah. I don't know. It I mean, it's fine. It works just
fine. It ends up making it feellike she's a suspect the whole
time, which she kind of is fromReese's point of view.
But it just sort of I don'tknow. Reese's immediate,
Skepticism. Skepticism and theway that he treats not just a

(51:58):
skeptic like, I'm I appreciatehis skepticism because he's
literally the the only skepticalperson. He's the only one who's
like, well, the facts aren'treally there. I mean, what she's
saying is fine, but, like, thewe don't have a lot of evidence
that backs up what she's saying.
So he's the only one who'simmediately, like, well, I don't
think we should just believethis woman, like, wholesale. We

(52:19):
should probably investigate thecrime. But he also immediately
treats her like she is also asuspect by keeping her in the
room? Like, do they notinterrogate anybody else ever?
Like, she sleeps in the room.
She's in that room the whole

Matt (52:34):
time.
They have more than one room. And if this is during the
night shift, maybe it doesn'tget used much at night.

Rachel (52:42):
Yeah. Because this is this doesn't take very long.
This is another episode thattakes place over, like, one
shift.

Matt (52:48):
Right.

Rachel (52:48):
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe he felt like he
could justify keeping her therefor one whole shift. And then
maybe

Matt (52:57):
12 hours ish.

Rachel (52:58):
Yeah. Yeah. Just while they looked into things. And
Laura's like, did you look athis record? Did you not see how
bad this dude is?
And Reese is like, yeah. No. Ilooked at it, but it's just a
record. It's not what he didthis time. And he goes, yeah.
We still need a case. Like, westill need evidence. We still
need all of these things topoint to the fact that he's the

(53:18):
bad guy, which is, again,accurate. And so Laura does this
thing where she goes in theinterrogation room, and she
forces Julie to relive somepretty serious trauma in front
of Everybody. A group ofstrangers.
And this is one of the reasonswhy we kind of no longer require

(53:39):
children to testify againsttheir abusers because you are
forcing them to relive theirtrauma in front of the person
who traumatized them. Andgranted her dad isn't there, but
also these people she doesn'tknow. And Laura doesn't even
really ask her. She's like, comeon, Laura. Come on, Julie.
We're gonna do this. Like, theyneed to understand. She's not
like, Julie, are you okay withme sharing this story? No. She's

(54:04):
just like, so here's the sitch.
Here's some tea. When Julie was14, she was repeatedly raped by
her dad. And when she told hermom, this resulted in them
having to go to the hospital.And then she pulls back her
sweater, and she's got thisscarred shoulder. And she's
like, this is what he left herwith as her own punishment.

(54:28):
And I know this is

Matt (54:30):
For tattling.

Rachel (54:30):
Yeah. For for telling. And I don't know how this would
have looked out of CRT TV, butit kind of isn't really visible.
I don't know if that's the wayit upscaled for the DVD we were
watching, but it's supposed tobe like she was harmed so badly.
She has like a mangled shoulder.
And, I mean, I get where Laura'sgoing. She's trying to elicit
sympathy. But, again, this isnot evidence for the current

(54:52):
investigation. It's not really.I mean, it's relevant in that we
get an understanding of what hehas done to her, but it's not so
relevant that I felt like itwarranted her sharing.
Plus, she is supposed to bethese people's safe space. She
is supposed to be the kind ofperson you can tell something in
confidence, and she will shewill keep it to herself. Mhmm.

(55:13):
And yet, she's like, oh, y'allcheck out this shit. Look what
he did to Julie.

Matt (55:19):
It's her it's her history as a a radio host.

Rachel (55:24):
I guess. Her her radio host.

Matt (55:26):
She can't resist. Compulsion

Rachel (55:27):
to just To to sell a

Matt (55:29):
good story. Loud. Yeah.

Rachel (55:30):
Yeah. It makes to me, it cheapens her character because
her character is supposed to bewholly on Julie's side.

Matt (55:39):
Mhmm.

Rachel (55:40):
And she's supposed to seem wholly on her side by doing
this because it's supposed to belike she is willing to do
anything to get them to go afterthe dad, but they're already
going after the dad. They'realready attempting to find him.
What she wants for them to sayis, yeah. He's the bad guy.
We're gonna catch him for you,but they can't say that because

(56:01):
they don't have the evidence tosay

Matt (56:03):
that. Right. Because they have rules to follow.

Rachel (56:04):
Because they have rules. And she working in the position
that she's working in, sheshould be working closely with
people who deal with the law dayin and day out. Whether she's
working with, like, legal aid orshe's working with the police,
she's likely involved in casessimilar to this all the time and
should be well aware of the factthat they aren't being

(56:27):
incompetent. They are actuallyfor once being competent. They
are actually for once waitingfor evidence.

Matt (56:34):
Yeah.

Rachel (56:35):
And I think that's the part that bothers me the most is
because she literally abandonseverybody else at her shelter to
stay with Julie this whole timeknowing that her shelter has
been compromised and she shouldprobably be getting people out
and getting them temporaryshelter. I mean, a dude broke in

(56:55):
and murdered somebody in there,and she was just like, well,
y'all, lock the door. I'll seeyou later. There's a police
officer outside. Don't worryabout it.
Drop the fucking ball, Laura.You dropped the ball. That's
that's all I'm gonna say. Underthe guise of being overly
protective of one person. Like,this is enmeshment.
She's too close to this case.Everyone is too close to this

(57:16):
case except Reese, ironically.And Nick does tell her, like,
sorry. Yeah. Reese is right.
We can't. We can't say that thisguy is the bad guy. We can't say
any guy is the bad guy yetbecause we do actually need
proof. You should have seen howmany clues I had in the last

(57:37):
case, and still nobody believedme. Like Yeah.
I had a skull. I had a pie I hada knife. I had a I had an
hourglass. I had a truncheon, asafety code, all kinds of shit.
Oh, do you want my VR rig?
You can play that while I'mwaiting. Oh, no. Sorry. Natalie
burned it. He's like, no.

(57:58):
I can't. Like, we can't. Weliterally are our hands are
tied. We are bound by the law toactually wait to find out if
this guy is guilty. And thenmeanwhile, Tracy is actually on
the phone with her dad because,of course, our subplot is that
her mom has shown up, and nowher dad is calling her to ask
about why her mom is there.

(58:20):
And she's like, I'm just tryingto stay out of my parents' messy
ass divorce. Like, they'rehaving a messy divorce, and
they're involving her to adegree, which is really
inappropriate. And I love howshe's sitting there talking to
him and tearing apart this pieceof paper into these tiny like,
she's so like, she needs anoutlet Yeah. While she's talking
to him. And then we got toReese, and he's actually

(58:42):
watching a tape of Julie'sconfession because something

Matt (58:45):
isn't sitting right
with him. Something's something seems fishy.

Rachel (58:49):
Yes. And he's saying ain't jiving the way he wants it
to jive. And she's saying, yeah.He was like a madman. He just
went at her.
He pulled out a knife knife andstarted stabbing her. And Tracy,
off camera, is like, well, didyou try to stop him? And she's
like, yes. I tried to stop him.And that's the part that Reese
rewinds because Tracy feeds herthe line, and she feeds it right

(59:11):
back.

Matt (59:11):
Right.

Rachel (59:12):
Yeah. And Nick actually walks into Reese's office, and
Reese is like, I wanna keep herhere. I'll tell them it's for
her protection since we've gotno murder weapon and the suspect
is still at large, but I don'twant her leaving. Like, I'm not
comfortable sending her outthere. I think there's something
more to this.
And Nick does this little hiplean on the captain's desk,

(59:32):
which in his light wash jeansand his little blazer and his
little turtleneck. And he'slike, I am, settled here so I
can tell you somethingimportant. And he has, like, a
folder and he rests it on hisdesk. And Reese goes, you know,
I'm not letting her go until Iabsolutely have to. And Nick is
actually there to tell Reesethat Jack Henderson, her dad,

(59:56):
was for sure in that roombecause they found his
fingerprints.
And there's blood that matcheshis type in the room. And Reese
goes, okay. Mixed with thevictims? And he's like, no. You
would expect it mixed with thevictims with this number of stab
wounds because, unless you'rereally, really good at using a

(01:00:17):
knife, often when you stab thathard, your hand will slip down
and you actually injure your ownhand stabbing that many times,
so you expect there to be bloodmixed together, which is
surprising they don't checkJulie's hands because
theoretically, she would haveharmed herself.
Or may maybe she didn't. I don'tknow. This this blade that they
end up finding has quite thecross guard, so maybe she was

(01:00:39):
fine.

Matt (01:00:39):
Yeah. And in the scene later where we get her
perspective of actually holdingthe knife, she doesn't have any
blood on her hands.

Rachel (01:00:47):
Right.

Matt (01:00:48):
And she doesn't have any blood on her shirt at all. I was
surprised the actress justholding this knife that's, like,
basically dripping blood Yeah.Wearing a white sweater.

Rachel (01:01:00):
Yeah. There's not enough blood.

Matt (01:01:02):
She didn't
get any blood on her shirt.

Rachel (01:01:04):
There's definitely not enough blood in this crime scene
For this woman to have beenstabbed so hard, the tip broke
off in her sternum.

Matt (01:01:12):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:01:12):
Yeah. This should have been a bloodbath. This is when
we need Dexter. Because I lovedwhen that was my favorite part
of Dexter when we talked aboutthe different kinds of blood
spray where you'd be like, oh,this is the kind that you get
when you shoot somebody. This isthe kind you get when you use a
hammer.
Yeah. That I'm that was myfavorite part of Dexter. And he
says, okay. So do we have DNAlike proof, DNA proof? And Nick

(01:01:35):
goes, meh.
DNA is not done yet. You know, Ijust shipped that off. It's the
nineties. That shit ain'tautomatic. It's gotta come back
couple weeks probably.
And then Tracy's still on thephone with her dad, and she's
like, I don't know if she wasdrunk. I'm not gonna do a field
sobriety check-in my livingroom. And she's like, dad, the
divorce is your business. Thesettlement is your business. No,
dad.
I'm not taking sides. I feel forTracy. I feel for Tracy so hard

(01:01:57):
in this moment because I feellike this is something my mom
would absolutely do. Not thedrunk part, but the calling to
to involve me in all thedecision making.

Matt (01:02:06):
Implying that you're enabling the other party. Yeah.

Rachel (01:02:09):
And her dad also tells her to be careful, actually.
He's like, can you just speak?He don't hear his voice, but she
goes, I will be careful, dad. Soboth her mom and her dad tell
her to be careful. And then theyget a call because there's a
neighborhood clinic that iscalled to say they think they
have Henderson, because they gota fax.
He looks like the guy in thefax, and he's all sliced up. So

(01:02:31):
they hop in the car, Nick's car,and they're headed to the
clinic. And this is when Tracyis inspecting and reinspecting
her gun. She keeps pulling itout and checking to make sure
it's loaded.

Matt (01:02:40):
Right. Because they're going to a place where there's
somebody that might be armed anddangerous.

Rachel (01:02:44):
Right. And so Nick looks over at her, and he's like,
Tracy, I think it's loaded. Ithink you're fine. It's the same
as it was the last 6 times youchecked it. And Tracy goes, you
know, you're lucky you don'thave a family.
Oh, okay.

Matt (01:02:58):
I don't think she's I don't think she's nervous about
the the violent or, like, armedand dangerous suspect.

Rachel (01:03:05):
Possibly not. And she goes, I mean, I know it must be
a drag around the holidays, buttrust me, family is not all it's
cracked up to be. Poor Tracy.And Nick is like, I mean, yeah.
I get family complications.
I mean, I don't technically havefamily, but I just did turn my
sister wife into my daughter andthat kinda made it really
complicated. I don't know Idon't I don't know what what

(01:03:27):
what card do I get her now?Just, like, is she gonna get me
a Father's Day card? Is shegonna get me a spouse card? I
don't know what's gonna happen.
And Tracy goes, I don't know ifI'm supposed to be a daughter or
a referee. Aw, poor Tracy. Thisis such a we don't ever come
back to their divorce, but youget the sense that this divorce
is because her mom's alreadymoved out of the city and living

(01:03:50):
somewhere else. And her dad mustlive here if he's the police
commissioner. And you just feellike, ugh, this has to be
ongoing and nasty and obnoxious.
And then we go back to Laura atthe station, and Julie's
sleeping in the interrogationroom. And she goes in and wakes
her up, and she's like, oh, youknow, are you tired? And she's

(01:04:12):
like, yeah. This is Julie says,yeah. This is awful.
Why are they not letting me go?I don't get it. Like, I'm not
the bad guy here. They knowthat. And Laura's like, oh,
they're so like, she's just somean to the police this whole
time.
I get feeling frustrated, butthey're just doing their jobs.
And she's the one who's notdoing her job. So, honestly,
who's the one who everybodyshould be frustrated at? Nick

(01:04:34):
invited her to keep Juliecomfortable and to be a safe
person for her, and instead,she, like, becomes her it's I
don't know. It's really it'sdifficult to watch.
So Laura goes, it's cool. Like,you're safe here, and I'm gonna
stay with you the whole time.Don't worry about it. And your
dad isn't going to get away withthis. He's going to get what he

(01:04:57):
deserves.
A little bit of foreshadowingfor you. And then we come back
to the clinic, and we meet Jackfor the first time. This is the
first time we've actuallyencountered her dad in person,
and he is stoically menacing.This actor is doing a very good
job of being, hateable.

Matt (01:05:14):
Yeah. Definitely.

Rachel (01:05:15):
Yeah. He would definitely feel like he is on
the verge of violence the entiretime you're around him. And he's
appropriately asshole ish as thedoctor is, like, stalling him.
So she's, like, gently wipinghis arm. She's making chit chat,
and then she kinda seescommotion out front.
And she's like, you know what?Actually, I'm gonna go get more

(01:05:35):
bandages, and she leaves. Andthis is when Nick and Tracy
arrive at the clinic outside.And Nick's like, I'll take the
front, and Tracy voluntarilysays she'll run around the side.
So she runs around the side.
Nick goes in the front, and weget this interesting shot
through the window of Nickshowing his badge to the people.
Like, we don't actually hear himsay anything

Matt (01:05:56):
Mhmm.

Rachel (01:05:56):
Because we're seeing it as if it's happening from inside
the ops like, inside the clinicroom, and everybody leaves. He
just kinda pulls his badge out,and all the extras are like, doo
doo doo, walk into the otherroom. And then he comes in to
find that Jack is missing. He'snot in the

Matt (01:06:13):
The exam room.

Rachel (01:06:14):
Yeah. The triage room. And then we cut to Tracy in the
alley, and Jack actually opens aside door and jumps out at her
and knocks her into aconveniently placed mattress and
some empty boxes. And she endsup tackling Jack, and this is
when she puts her gun againsthis head. And she's like, go
ahead, you son of a bitch.

(01:06:35):
Give me a reason. Officer, don'tyou move. Go ahead, you son of a
bitch. Give me a reason.

Matt (01:06:44):
Well, to be fair, he attacked her.

Rachel (01:06:46):
Well, he kinda came out and, like yeah. I guess he
tackled her. It was sort of likea reaction. It doesn't feel like
he set out to attack her. It'slike I'm trying to get away, and
I just need you incapacitated soI can flee.
Because he knocks her down, andthen he runs off. He does not
stay to hurt her.

Matt (01:07:05):
Right.

Rachel (01:07:06):
And Nick actually has to talk Tracy down. He's like, it's
okay, Tracy. We I think we gothim. Like, we're good. We got
him now.
And then he's the one who cuffsJack. He ends up straddling this
guy and cuffing him, and then hegets up. And for some this must
be to play with the camera,like, to play to the camera.
Because every time Nick is goingin for, like, a comforting

(01:07:28):
gesture, he goes around behind awoman and grabs her elbows. This
would freak me out more thananything.
Just like a guy being like, it'sokay. Gonk and, like, grab your
elbow and pull you back againsthim. And in fact, when we met
Kathy, he said she said thatthat was a like a move he would
do where he, like, goes behindyou and grabs your elbow like a

Matt (01:07:48):
So it's a Gare thing.

Rachel (01:07:50):
I think and I think it's so both of them are face first
to the camera.

Matt (01:07:53):
And it
may be a stage acting thing too.

Rachel (01:07:56):
Yeah. So you're always playing to the audience. Yeah.
Yeah. It definitely could be.
Because, if you look at some ofthe pro like, there's one of the
one of the books. I think it'sIntimations of Mortality that
isn't available. You can't buyit anywhere, but it's free
online. And she put up her coverart, and her cover art is Nick
and Natalie. And Nick is doingthis to Natalie on the cover.

(01:08:18):
He's standing behind her, andhe's got her elbows. And he's,
like, yoinked her back. It'shard to get out of an elbow
grab, so that's kind of a scarymove, not a comforting move, and
yet it's his go to, like, I'mtrying to make you feel better
move. And we find out that Jackwas staying in a hotel because
Nick's like, oh, fresh from hispockets, and he has this, like,
plastic folder, the kind ofplastic folder that has a string

(01:08:41):
that you pull down and you wrapit around the, like, circle of
paper that's on the bottom part.And he says he's already called
in a warrant and sent the labboys over to check out the
place.
And Tracy goes, what are theodds we're gonna find the weapon
there? And Nick's like,honestly, he probably ditched it
somewhere, and we're never gonnafind it. He's had plenty of
time. So yeah. And Tracy isactually

Matt (01:09:04):
done well at at dodging convictions in the past.

Rachel (01:09:11):
Yeah. He this isn't his first rodeo. It's not even his
second rodeo. It is in fact his4th rodeo. So he has had a
sufficient number of rodeos tofigure out what to do.
And Tracy is actually all dirty.So she's dirty from falling into
this mattress, which is I can't.Like, dirty textiles. It's just
like a horror story. It's morescary than anything that's ever

(01:09:34):
happened in this show.
But at this point, she'sactually literally and
metaphorically a little bitdirty. Yeah? Yeah. And she goes,
you know, I'll I'll go home andclean up later because Nick
says, it works for you. Mudworks for you.

Matt (01:09:49):
And she goes, I'll go home and

Rachel (01:09:50):
clean up later. Like, I wanna make sure we pin this guy.
Like, I wanna make sure weskewer him, and I wanna be there
when we do it. So they head backto the precinct and oh,
actually, this is when she tellshim, you know, I'm having a hard
time not being emotionallyinvolved in this one. Like, I'm
really having I'm having adifficult time maintaining
distance, and Nick agrees.

(01:10:11):
He's like, yep. This one isreally hard because you feel for
the victim and you absolutelyfeel like this guy is guilty,
but we don't have any evidencethat he's guilty. So it's
challenging. It this is achallenging one, and they
acknowledge it. And then they goback to the precinct, and they
go in to tell Julie that theycaught her dad.

(01:10:34):
And Reese says, yeah. We caughtyour dad. Good news. But I kinda
just wanna go over yourstatement one more time before
we take it to the crown. Andthen he looks at Laura, and he's
like, so are are you gonna stayhere?
And she's like, yeah. Yeah. Ican stay a while. The whole
time, I don't know if I can staythe whole time. And then

Matt (01:10:56):
so Reese and Tracy are kind of, alternating different
lines of questioning.

Rachel (01:11:02):
Well, this is later. Right now, it's just this is
when they've actually takenJulie out of the interrogation
room, and she's sitting at thetable. And Reese comes over and
because, Nick and Tracy areinterrogating Jack. Because
remember, this is the scenewhere he's like, you've been
playing hard and fast with thetruth this entire time. And,

(01:11:24):
like, actually, he hasn't.
He's mostly been telling you thetruth. We are alternating
between Reese talking to Julieand Nick and Tracy talking to
Jack. Because every time Juliesays something, Jack confirms
it. And Jack goes, actually,Julie talks first, and she says,
you know, my dad moved toCollingwood a few months ago,
and he just came back for somestuff. But as soon as he came

(01:11:46):
back, things just started rightup again.
And I knew I had to get out. Andthen we cut to Jack, and he's
like, she's lying. That's nothow it went down. And Nick's
like, oh, okay. Cool.
How did you kill your wife then?I love how they're bad cop and
bad cop.

Matt (01:12:03):
Mhmm.

Rachel (01:12:03):
They're like bad cop and worst cop.

Matt (01:12:05):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:12:06):
And Tracy goes, where's the knife? Where'd you put the
knife, Jack? And Jack goes, whydon't you ask Julie? Because
he's actually telling the truth.Or, I mean, not poor Jack, but
also poor Jack.
Right? I don't know this man'sstory. I don't know how actually
healed he is. I don't know whathe's put into being a better

(01:12:26):
guy, whether he has or whetherhe hasn't, but he gets no BOD.
He gets no benefit of the doubtfrom pretty much anybody but
Reese.
And Nick actually fires back.Oh, Julie killed your wife? Come
on. And then Jack says, I mean,yeah. Honestly, Gloria, my wife,
took me over there to make peacewith Julie.

(01:12:47):
It was totally Gloria's idea,and then Nick almost slips into
his flashback. He has that,like, intrusive flashback
thought, and then he's justlike, oh, no. No. No. Because he
sees himself picking up thewoman that he saved earlier, but
now she's dead.

Matt (01:13:03):
Right. Yes. Because her her guy killed her.

Rachel (01:13:07):
Yeah. Her quote master. And then Nick comes back, and
he's like, right. Right. Yeah.
No. You've beaten Gloria foryears, but killing her, that
wasn't on you. And Jack goes,you know what? I'm not the guy I
was before. I used to drinkhuman blood.
Just kidding. I used to drink,and I had a problem. And I did

(01:13:28):
things that I'm ashamed of, butI got help and I changed. Does
that sound is I got help and Ichanged also in the room with us
right now? Is is anyone else inthe room with does that describe
anyone else in the room with usright now?
But Nick is not hearing it. Ithink because he's seeing Jack

(01:13:48):
as a mirror.

Matt (01:13:49):
And he doesn't like it.

Rachel (01:13:51):
He doesn't like it. Oh, and it just he can't. Like, he
hates Jack for the same reasonsthat he hates himself.

Matt (01:13:59):
Yeah. He's rejecting the reflection.

Rachel (01:14:02):
Right. Because it he's like, ugh. That's fucking me.
That's me, and I hate it. Andwould I have killed the woman?
Yeah. Probably. So he's seeinghis own guilt.

Matt (01:14:14):
Projecting.

Rachel (01:14:15):
Yeah. He's projecting. We don't need other planets. We
need mirrors. That's a Solarisreference.
Go listen to Strange andBeautiful Book Club. So then
Nick says, okay. Okay. Fine. Youdidn't kill your wife, so why
did you run?
And Tracy goes, running suggestsguilt, mister Henderson. And he
says, you know what? I know whoI am. I know what this looks

(01:14:36):
like. I knew you'd blame me.
Also, I ran because she, Julie,was coming after me. I ran
before she could kill me. Howcome Laura didn't hear the
window breaking?

Matt (01:14:50):
I don't know if she was panicking.

Rachel (01:14:53):
Because we hear the no no scream. She runs over. She's
banging on the window. Thatwould have been the moment for
Jack to jump out the window andrun off.

Matt (01:15:01):
Mhmm.

Rachel (01:15:01):
So she should have heard the window breaking unless it
was like a tissue paper window,but it isn't because he's
bleeding to death from all thelacerations from the glass.
That's a plot hole, but it'sfine. It's fine. But no one's
going to listen to my side ofthe story, he says. She was mad
at her mother for evensuggesting we could be a family
again, which is fair.

(01:15:22):
Julie is totally justified inbeing angry that her mother
brought the dad that she wasfleeing to the place where she
felt the most safe. Now thisisn't even a safe place because
her dad knows where it is. Andthen her mom is saying, forgive
him for everything that he didfor you. This doesn't justify
murder, but Julie is well withinher rights to be upset about

(01:15:46):
this. Not so upset she stabs hermom 20 sometimes.
Right. But that's a lot ofthere's a lot of back trauma.
There's a there's a suitcasefull of trauma there, and you
can't unpack that overnight, andyou can't show up apparently in
the middle of the night becauseNick was able to arrive at the

(01:16:08):
crime scene.

Matt (01:16:10):
Right.

Rachel (01:16:11):
Yeah. You will you show up at midnight with your dad and
be like, oh, he's changed.Forgive him.

Matt (01:16:15):
Yeah. The end of a stressful day. Yeah. And you
just wanna relax, and then yourmom shows up with your abuser.

Rachel (01:16:22):
Yeah. That's what this is a this is a this is a dark
episode even without all thevampire stuff. And the tech ends
up arriving with a knife. Sheshows up in the interrogation
room, and she's like, here'sthis knife that we found in his
hotel room and look, it'scovered in blood. And Nick's

(01:16:43):
like, look familiar?
And he goes, nope. And they'relike, well, it was in your room.
And he's like, alright. Fine. Itwas mine.
But I used it to to cut off myclothes when I was bleeding to
death. I mean, I get it, butthis feels like the opposite of
the kind of knife or anythingthat I would use to cut my
clothes off.

Matt (01:16:57):
If it's the only knife he had.

Rachel (01:16:59):
Was he carrying it with him?

Matt (01:17:01):
Well, he went back to his hotel room. It may have been in
his room.
Yeah.

Rachel (01:17:04):
I mean, like, if he packed that in his suitcase,
he's like, I need my stabbingknife, my pair of stabbing
knives. Alright. Fine. It'sfine. Whatever.
Because Julie stabs her motherwith something that Natalie says
is probably from the same set.So does he have, like, 2
throwing knives on his hip atall times? Or

Matt (01:17:26):
Didn't Julie have the knife with her?

Rachel (01:17:29):
We don't talk about where she got the knife from.
But she must have had it

Matt (01:17:32):
at the from her dad.

Rachel (01:17:33):
Yeah. And took it for I mean, yeah. Took it for
protection. Yeah. And Jack says,why will you not consider that I
might be telling the truth?
Like, why are you treating melike I'm the bad guy right off
the bat here? This feels alittle, this feels a little like
you've already decided that I'mguilty, and you're just trying
to get me to slip up. And I'mnot going to because I'm telling

(01:17:56):
the truth. And Nick actuallysays because you've been playing
hard and fast with the truthwith since you got here, which
he's lied once. He He lied aboutthe knife.
And you can kinda understand whyhe lied about the knife because
And

Matt (01:18:06):
then he immediately corrected.

Rachel (01:18:09):
Yeah. As soon as they're like, that's a lie. He's like,
yeah. That was a lie. It was alie.
And Nick goes, you're in deepHenderson, way over your head.
And then he just drops the micand leaves. And I'm like, I
mean, he's he's not in deep orway over his head. That's just
your perception of what'shappening. He's literally been

(01:18:29):
in this position before.
This isn't even again, this ishis 4th rodeo. He's like a
professional rodeo person. Okay?So he's been here before. He's
telling you the truth.
The only people who are in deepand way over their head is Nick
and Tracy.

Matt (01:18:45):
Or Julie.

Rachel (01:18:46):
And Julie. And Laura. The only person who's actually
coming at this from a place of,like, objective truth is Jack
Henderson and Reese.

Matt (01:18:57):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:18:58):
Yeah. So Tracy ends up going home, and this is when we
get our mom's an alcoholicscene. God. This episode is
just, like, relentless becauseshe goes home and her mom's
drinking some liquor that Tracyhas in her room or in her house.
And she's like, mom, I thoughtyou stopped drinking.
And she's like, oh, I like tohave a drink on special
occasions. And Tracy goes, oh,you mean, like, Wednesday? Oof.

Matt (01:19:24):
Yeah. Burn. Burn.
And the mom goes,

Rachel (01:19:27):
I don't appreciate your sarcasm, Tracy. I don't need
your sarcasm. I need your help.Oh, wait. That was last episode.
And then they fight aboutdrinking and the divorce and the
fact that Tracy's mom won't stoptelling her stuff that really
isn't her business, like herdad's infidelity. She's like,
oh, did he trip and fall intoall of those people that he he

(01:19:48):
cheated on me with? Mhmm. Mhmm.And Tracy's like, can you not
fucking talk to me about this?
I have asked you to keep me outof this. I am I am fucking
Switzerland, and you guys needto let me be Switzerland. And
her mom goes, try to imagine howmuch it must hurt to be alone
every night worrying about yourfather. Like, every night your

(01:20:11):
dad goes off, and I don't knowif he's coming back alive. Try
to imagine what that was likefor me.
And Tracy goes, this is an oldargument, mom. You won't win it.
I'm a cop because I wanna be acop. I mean, in the blind no. In
the Blackwing episode, shetalked about how she tried a
whole bunch of other careers.
And in the end, she was like,no. I wanna be a cop. So Tracy

(01:20:34):
did try other things, and thisis what she decided she was best
at. She even had an out not thatlong ago where she got
transferred to a cushy desk jobwhere she could have had a lot
of upward mobility and made alot more money, and she ends up
going back. That's in strings.

Matt (01:20:53):
Yep.

Rachel (01:20:55):
So clearly, she does want to be where she is. And her
mom goes, I wanted somethingbetter for you. You wait until
you're as lonely as I am, andmake no mistake, you're headed
that way. And this is when Tracyslaps her, which kind of fair.
That was a that was a low blowmom, but also

Matt (01:21:16):
Bit of a line.

Rachel (01:21:17):
We use our words. We don't use our hands. Yeah. And
But you have to imagine thisisn't the first time this has
come up between them. And Tracyhas had a long and stressful
night, and she comes home tofind her alcoholic mom drinking
after I had getting a phone callfrom her dad.
And this is this is a lot forTracy. She gets momentarily

(01:21:40):
overwhelmed. She immediatelyregrets her actions, and she
ends up leaving pretty soonafter that. She cleans up, she
changes her jacket, and her momgoes, oh, you think you are so
independent, but you're not. Youand your you are your father's
person, and that's why you're acop, because he made you what he

(01:22:02):
wanted you to be.
And I love the removal ofTracy's agency completely from
this discussion. And I feel likemaybe, both of them needed some
parenting tips because you don'ttell people who they are. You
let people tell you who theyare. And this is an impossible

(01:22:23):
argument because Tracy cannotfight back. What is she going to
say?
She either has to call herself aliar or she has to call her mom
a liar.

Matt (01:22:30):
Mhmm.

Rachel (01:22:31):
And there's no way out of that. So she just leaves. Her
mom storms out. Tracy stormsout. Everybody storms out.
And her mom's like, you knowwhat? I'm sorry I came here, but
I had nowhere else to go.

Matt (01:22:43):
I forgot that film festival was happening this
week.

Rachel (01:22:45):
I know. Whoopsies. I should have made an appointment
with my lawyer another time. Thelawyer could have been like,
hey. There's the film festival.
I don't know if you're gonna beable to get a hotel room. Why
don't we postpone this a coupleof weeks? But maybe it's already
been long and drawn out andmessy.

Matt (01:23:00):
Or I know a I know a detective. You could stay at his
place.

Rachel (01:23:04):
Yeah. He's pretty he's pretty free with that. I wonder
wonder if Nick has anyinvestments. Like, does he own
any apartment buildings oranything? 1 of the Toronto ghost
hotels and he Airbnb'severything in it, and then he
completely forgets to put thekeys anywhere where anybody can
get them and also forgets thatyou have to buzz your way in.
And then

Matt (01:23:22):
The guy handling his blood money probably has some property
investments,

Rachel (01:23:26):
but Nick

Matt (01:23:27):
is ignorant of

Rachel (01:23:29):
I wonder who

Matt (01:23:30):
he oblivious to all
of them.

Rachel (01:23:31):
Who he reinvested with.

Matt (01:23:35):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:23:35):
Yeah. E trades or something. He's like, I need

Matt (01:23:39):
to because he'd have to come up with

Rachel (01:23:40):
a whole new arrangement because his previous arrangement
was, like, 50 years old.

Matt (01:23:43):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:23:43):
So you'd

Matt (01:23:44):
have to come up with

Rachel (01:23:44):
a whole new he'd have to vet somebody. He'd have to move
that money there. Maybe it'sjust in his savings account
until he gets around to it.Mhmm. And then we go back to
Nick and Natalie at the morgue,and Natalie's like, sorry.
This knife ain't the murderweapon. All the blood on it is
Jack's blood, and I found thetip of the knife embedded in her

(01:24:05):
breastbone. That is a lot.That's a lot of force. So the
actual murder knife is missingthe tip.
And she says they're similar incomposition, could be a matching
set, ala Blackwing. They couldeven both be his, but there's
still a reasonable doubt thathe's the one who wielded it. And

(01:24:26):
Nick goes, Natalie or Nat says,actually, I would hate for this
creep to walk away because of atechnicality. Like, I hate these
kinds of cases. And it goes,yeah.
I mean, everybody does. It'skind of an old story, and it
doesn't wanna end. And then wego back to the flashback, and
this is when the clause like,

Matt (01:24:45):
Are you gonna eat that?

Rachel (01:24:48):
He goes, you could have done something and you didn't.
Like, you had your moment to actand you fucked it up, so just
let it go, man. Like, try betternext time. I don't know what to
tell you. And he's like, can weplease go watch the fight?
I have money on this. And Nickis just about to go back and
check on her. He's like, fine.You watch the fight. I'm just
gonna go make sure she's okay.
And then we hear a scream, andhe finds her dead. And he's

(01:25:12):
like, oh, hell no. And so helooks up all vampire y with his
eyes green, and then I love howhe leaves. He's like, oh, I'm a
go get that guy, and LaCroix'slike, He's like, oh, look at
what I found. 5 second roll.
5 second roll. Then he ends upeating this poor woman. He He

(01:25:33):
doesn't even really look around.He's just like, everybody's
watching the fight. This isfine.
Because he's just that she'sjust on the floor in amongst a
bunch of people. And he's like,well

Matt (01:25:45):
Can't let good food go to waste.
I

Rachel (01:25:47):
didn't know they had concessions here. This is
probably the only funny momentin the whole episode. So we have
to linger here for a minute.Okay? Is her heart still
beating?
Because otherwise, nothing isbringing additional blood to her
neck unless he pumps her chest.Well, you could do that. Anyway,

(01:26:12):
on that gruesome note, we comeback to the present and the
police are all watching thenews. Like, all the police are
watching the news, kinda like weall watched that porn video in
false witness, except you don'tget a skanky wrap up at the end.
And it's actually the newsreporting at this women's
shelter, which you wanna do afucking tasteless reporting at

(01:26:35):
the shelter with the address notblurred out or anything.
Just, hey, guys. Here's whereall your women are staying, and
it's absolutely exposing thelocation of the shelter. And
Reese calls Nick over becauseNick is like, god, you're
fucking kidding me. I shouldhave said don't come back.
Goddamn it.
Missed opportunity again. And soNick calls Reese oh, sorry.

(01:26:59):
Reese calls Nick over, and he'slike, yeah. So here's a
prosecutor from, from the city,and he says that we didn't
actually wait for the warrant tobe finalized before we searched
the hotel room. And now all theevidence that we found in there
is, in a word, inadmissible.

Matt (01:27:18):
Not that they found anything.

Rachel (01:27:20):
Yeah. And they're all, like, butthurt about this, but
they didn't find anything. Like,nothing that they found in there
everything that they found inthere actually exonerates him.
Right. So okay.
So they have jack shit now,basically. And the prosecutor's
like, yeah. At this point,honestly, you'd need, like, a
video recording of the murder,or you'd need a signed

(01:27:42):
confession. Like, we need a slamdunk because he says, your
witness is a compromised thewitness is a compromised witness
because she has a history ofdrug abuse because, yeah, she
went through a fuck ton of shit.She's got trauma, and she has

(01:28:03):
resulting things on her recordfrom the trauma she experienced
and then from not receiving the,like, any kind of help.
And then he says, she's awalking catalog of teenage
angst. The fuck you mean bythat?

Matt (01:28:20):
Projection again.

Rachel (01:28:20):
Well, what the fuck does that mean? She's a walking
catalog of teenage angst. Oh, Ican't believe she's still all
mad that she got raped when shewas 14. Fuck you. What is he
talking about?
That line gets me every time Iwatch this episode because
here's 3 middle class olderdudes, not all white dudes, but

(01:28:41):
the 2 the one white dude who hasprobably never encountered a
moment of difficulty in hisentire life is like, she's just
so hysterical. She's so moodybecause she's a teenager. Oh,
yeah. It's because she's ateenager. Yeah.
Thank you. No. What the fuck iswrong with you? You are a public

(01:29:02):
defender. You probably see thesecases all the time.
Get it together. I just needed amoment to process that, but
thank you for come thank you forstaying here with me. I feel
like probably the types ofpeople that get his position and
stay in his position are the Iam better than everyone, and so,
like, this just reinforces mysuperiority. Otherwise, if

(01:29:26):
you're the type of person who'sempathetic enough to care about
these people, you wouldn't lastlong.

Matt (01:29:31):
Yeah. It wear you down.

Rachel (01:29:32):
It wear you down. It would wear me down. And Nick is
like, yeah. But Henderson didit, and we all know it. Oh,
okay.
I mean, you don't have a case.You don't have evidence. Every
piece of evidence you found hasactually confirmed his story and
made Julie's story suspect, butsure. Sure. Sure.
We all know that. And theprosecutor is like, okay. Well,

(01:29:56):
that maybe, but you stillactually need a case. And this
is when Laura walks into theconversation and they just turn
and tell her everything thatthey were just talking about
about how they fumbled theevidence. She's a random
bystander.
She is not a police officer. Sheis not a lawyer. She is not

(01:30:16):
legally involved in this exceptthat it happened on her
property. If she's not she couldbe if she's the owner of the
house, it's her property. Shecould be staff.
There could be someone who ownsthe shelter, and she runs it.

Matt (01:30:31):
Right. So Nick made a a statement about how the the
address of this place isconfidential. Yeah. And so I get
the feeling that this shelter isoperating as some kind of
organization that cooperateswith the the city and law
enforcement. And so she may havesome type of relationship, like,

(01:30:56):
official relationship with thecity law enforcement.
And even if So maybe that's whythey feel like they can tell
her, like, details about anongoing investigation that you
normally are supposed to nottell anybody about?

Rachel (01:31:12):
Even if this is a privately owned, massive
apartment building that sheowns, unless she's independently
wealthy, she's asking for grantsand financial assistance from
the city and from other charityorganizations. And so she would
have to be organized in such away that, like, she's
transparent to the city.

Matt (01:31:32):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:31:33):
And that would imply, yeah, that they have some kind
of working relationship. She maynot have a working relationship
specifically with that precinctor, with specifically those
people, but she would have aworking relationship with
because she's probably not thefirst time she's called the
police.

Matt (01:31:51):
Mhmm.

Rachel (01:31:52):
Because of, you know, not every woman is going to
abide by her rule to not contactpeople. I mean, abuse and
abusive relationships are alwayscomplicated and always tricky.
And from the outside looking in,it's super easy to say, why
don't you just leave? Why don'tthey just leave? But it's never

(01:32:15):
that simple, and it's never thatcut and dry.
And the shit she would deal withday in and day out working with
this population, yeah, sheabsolutely would have a working
relationship. Not to the pointwhere she could walk in and
stand and watch an interrogationand then get told every detail
of the case simply because she'spresent and accounted for at

(01:32:38):
this police precinct for, like,12 hours.

Matt (01:32:41):
Mhmm.

Rachel (01:32:42):
Maybe they forgot she doesn't work there. I don't
know. But after they tell herall about how they fumbled this
and how

Matt (01:32:48):
she's a vampire, and she's been hypnotizing them.

Rachel (01:32:51):
Oh, could be. Maybe she's like LaQuad. She just does
whatever she wants. I don'tthink so. Unless she's super no.
No. Because she'd have killedthe bad guy with her teeth, and
she doesn't. So then a uniformshows up and tells Laura, I'm
sorry, ma'am, but there's beenan attack at your shelter, which
kinda reinforces the belief thatshe's had prior dealings with

(01:33:13):
them. And Nick goes, well, Ithought the place was covered by
a uniform. And this is wheneither the police officer or the
lady went down to the cornerstore, and the husband spotted
her.
That's why I was thinking it wasthe lady because the husband
spots her at the corner storeand follows her back. Still, he
got in. How did he get in?

Matt (01:33:32):
Right.

Rachel (01:33:32):
I don't know. But, Laura ends up having to rush back to
the shelter for, like, 15fucking minutes.

Matt (01:33:38):
She's got 15 minutes to spare. Already broken window.

Rachel (01:33:41):
Maybe that she didn't board up because she wasn't
there.

Matt (01:33:43):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:33:43):
Yeah. She's got 15 minutes to spare, and then she's
gotta get back to Julie. So shecan go take care of these other
women for, like, a hot minute.So she runs back long enough to
say she's got to evacuate theshelter because it's not safe
and that she's gotta geteverybody find everybody a place
to go. And then she looks atNick and Tracy, and she's like,
how do you people sleep atnight?
How do you rationalize your ownincompetence? I'm they're not

(01:34:07):
the people that did notanticipate that this would be a
media frenzy and that thelocation of their shelter would
be compromised and that theywere not at the shelter to
protect anybody. I'm sorry, butwho's incompetent right now?
Yes. They fumbled the warrantthing, but they didn't lose any
crucial evidence.

Matt (01:34:26):
That was the forensic technicians that fumbled the
warrant, not Nick or Tracy.

Rachel (01:34:31):
The only thing that they're doing is refusing to go
on record saying this man isguilty without having any kind
of record any kind of evidencesupporting that he's guilty. So,
honestly, this is the mostpolice work they've done in,
like, 6 episodes. You need tocalm the fuck down.

Matt (01:34:47):
Even if they did have evidence, they can't outright
say, yes. He's guilty becausetheir job is to just hand it
over to the court.

Rachel (01:34:55):
Yeah. Exactly. They just make the case, arrest the guy,
and then go. You decide. In mynotes, I said, well, they
actually aren't doing that badof a job.
It's actually just because therereally is no case. And Jack is
actually being released because,again, they have no case. And so
Reese

Matt (01:35:14):
only evidence that they found has supported Jack's
story.

Rachel (01:35:17):
Right. And now they don't even have that evidence.
And so Reese tells him, sorry.Your car is impounded. It might
take a while to get back to it.
They're, they're kinda slow downthere, and he's like, whatever.
Keep it. It's a rental. And thenReese is trying to be
intimidating. He's like, makesure you don't leave town.
And he's like, oh, I'll give youthe name and phone number and

(01:35:38):
address and everything for theplace where I'm staying and the
place where I live. You can haveme tailed if you want to. And
Reese goes, maybe I'll do itmyself. I mean, okay. But, like,
there's this is when Jack islike, you don't know it yet,
captain, but you're doing theright thing.
And true, truer words. You don'tknow it yet, captain, but this

(01:35:59):
is actually the correct courseof action because Jack didn't
actually do this. And Reesegoes, yeah. Yeah. Keep in touch.

Matt (01:36:06):
Right. And I don't think it's unreasonable for Reese to
be very suspicious of this guy

Rachel (01:36:13):
Yeah.

Matt (01:36:14):
Because of his record. It's like, oh, you are actually
a child rapist?

Rachel (01:36:19):
Yeah.

Matt (01:36:19):
Okay.

Rachel (01:36:20):
Oh, no.

Matt (01:36:20):
We're not we're not investigating that right now.
Yes. I don't like you, and Idon't trust you. And I'm gonna
keep an eye on you.

Rachel (01:36:26):
I'm not saying Reese needs to be cordial to this
fellow.

Matt (01:36:29):
Right.

Rachel (01:36:29):
And I'm not saying he's out of line being intimidating,
and I don't think they're out ofline by having suspicions that
he might be guilty. It'severyone else's automatic
assumption that he is the onethat murdered his wife and then
failure to thoroughlyinvestigate Julie as a result. I

(01:36:52):
don't mind Reese's I don't mindReese in this at all because he
is the only one.

Matt (01:36:57):
Right. He's playing it by the book.

Rachel (01:36:59):
He's own the I mean, everybody's kinda by the book,
but, also, like, we're justtrying to find evidence to make
sure he's guilty.

Matt (01:37:05):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:37:05):
He is the only one that's like, have we
entertained? There's 2 people inthat room. There were 2 people
in that room. There is everyreason to suspect that Julie
might have been. We already knowfrom the prosecutor that she's a
catalog of teenage angst.
There's every reason to believethat she could have been the one
that did it, and yet, Reese isthe only one saying that. This

(01:37:29):
is why when we talked earlierabout the idea of being guilty
in isolation from being guiltyof this particular crime.

Matt (01:37:38):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:37:38):
Jack Henderson is not a good dude.

Matt (01:37:41):
Right.

Rachel (01:37:41):
He has put in the work. We don't know how much. He has
stated he's put in the work andthat he's changed, and he's no
longer drinking and that he'snot doing the things that he was
doing. So at what point does aperson earn the benefit of the
doubt? And that's the questionwe're asking and

Matt (01:37:58):
that we they've hypnotized their way into becoming a police
detective.

Rachel (01:38:04):
Correct. And that's the

Matt (01:38:06):
centuries of murder.

Rachel (01:38:08):
And that's the question that we're asking in this
episode and that I love we don'tget a clear answer to. Mhmm.
Yeah. Because in life, there isno clear answer to this. Because
can a person do something thatis unforgivable that you can
never clear from yourconscience, that you can never

(01:38:29):
you can never expect anyone tooverlook.
And I feel like if there's aline, child rapist is probably
right up there. I mean, thatfeels like a good line for me. I
don't like Jack Henderson. Idon't think Jack Henderson is a
good I don't think thischaracter is good in any sense
of the imagination. I just don'tthink he's guilty at this

(01:38:51):
particular crime and because heisn't, because we find that out
at the end.
And I think it's really, reallyinteresting that this show chose
to tackle a theme like this. ButJack ends up leaving, and he
turns around and he has one lastthing to say to Reese, and he's
like, look, if it meansanything, I'm sorry about what

(01:39:12):
happened to my ex wife, and I'dstay for the funeral, but
Gloria's family wouldn't wantme. And, like, fair. I also
would not want my daughter's exhusband who beat her and raped
her child and may have gone toprison and served the time for
that to come to her funeral.Because even if he is not

(01:39:34):
directly responsible forGloria's murder, he didn't hold
the knife.
What he did to Julie and thetrauma he inflicted she's

Matt (01:39:46):
also responsible for the things that she did to

Rachel (01:39:46):
her mother. She's also responsible for things. She also
made the choice. I wonder howthey justified holding holding
Julie, like, keeping Julie herefor 12 hours and then letting
Jack go.

Matt (01:39:56):
Maybe Jack actually brought a lawyer in?

Rachel (01:39:59):
Well, I think he wanted to leave. Julie hasn't been
like, I wanna go. I you youcan't hold me. What are you
holding

Matt (01:40:04):
me for? Julie just wants
a safe place to stay.

Rachel (01:40:06):
Laura is there, and Laura could be like, they don't
actually have any authority tohold you.

Matt (01:40:10):
Well, and I don't think Laura has a an alternative place
for her to go.

Rachel (01:40:15):
Well, her apartment, which is where she sends her
ultimately.

Matt (01:40:18):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:40:18):
But I don't know. It's just it's fine. Of all the
nitpicks in this episode, like,it's the tiniest of tiniest
nitpicks. And this is when Nicksays, you know, I'm gonna go
back to the shelter and check itout. Just gonna make sure shit's
alright, and I'm gonna see if Ican find anything.
And Reese says, you know what?Do that. And I'm also putting a

(01:40:39):
uniform on Jack while he's intown, so he's gonna be followed.
So we're gonna get no we'regonna know where he is, so do
what you need to do. And this iswhen Reese asks Tracy to sit
with him while they talk toJulie.
But, actually, her mom justshowed up. And so she's like,
cool. I'll do my job in aminute. Can I go talk to my mom?
And Reese is like, cool.

Matt (01:40:59):
My mom's here. She's mom. Bringing my drama to my job.

Rachel (01:41:04):
I mean, they but they needed to have this. Tracy just
slapped her in the face. Andthey've had a cooling off
moment, and now they gotta havea chat. And so then we go to
Laura, and Laura is at theshelter. And Laura is kind of
having, like, a breakdown.
Everything has fallen apart. Hershelter has been compromised.

(01:41:26):
Everyone's had to leave. She'sall by herself there. Julie
clearly, Julie isn't getting thejustice that Laura perceives
Julie should be getting.

Matt (01:41:36):
Right.

Rachel (01:41:38):
And so she feels like this is her moment to make sure
that Jack gets what he deserves.And this is when Laura calls
Julie at the station. And why isthere a phone in the
interrogation room that has aline to the outside that you
leave people in for a longperiod.

Matt (01:41:53):
Because that that line is tapped. So I

Rachel (01:41:56):
mean, that's true.

Matt (01:41:57):
If you
leave somebody in the interrogation room and they call
up their buddy, hey. Get rid ofall the stuff. It's at this
address.

Rachel (01:42:04):
Yeah. They just have a sign that says free phone calls
a couple of times. Yeah. I mean,sure. Because he just sets it
first of all, we don't show theback of the phone probably
because there's actually no linein

Matt (01:42:16):
the back. User license agreement on the back in tiny
print. It's, like, 10 10 fullpages of text in tiny print on
the back that says, by pickingup this phone, you agree to the
terms and agreements listedbelow, which means we can we can
record Yeah. You consent tobeing recorded, and this, and

(01:42:38):
anything recorded is admissiblein court as evidence.

Rachel (01:42:41):
Yeah. How about the good old US of A or our state anyway,
where it's a one party? Oneparty One

Matt (01:42:47):
party consent.

Rachel (01:42:48):
As long as I'm aware I'm recording you, I can record you,
and it's perfectly fine.

Matt (01:42:54):
Which may or may not have happened with, with bureaucratic
individuals.

Rachel (01:42:59):
Yeah. With, and that's fine. That's a whole other
podcast. So, anyway Literally.Literally.
Literally. So, yeah, he's like,Laura's on line 3, and he
leaves. And so Julie picks upthe phone, and Laura gives her
this, like, cryptic, like, Ican't come back to take care of
you. I've decided to actually goback to doing my job. Psych.
No. I haven't. I haven't Ihaven't decided to go back to my

(01:43:21):
job. No. No.
I've I've abandoned my job atthis point. But, actually, you
can go to my apartment. You knowwhere I hide the key. It's fine.
I've got something important todo, and then she breaks the news
to Julie that they let herfather go, which is why you
don't tell people that kind ofinformation.

Matt (01:43:39):
Mhmm.

Rachel (01:43:40):
Because she immediately tells Julie. She's like, they
let your father go because theycan't make a case. They, quote,
screwed up the evidence. Youmean they didn't plant a knife?
I don't what are you talkingabout?
They screwed up the evidence.And then she says, Julie, this
is important. Where was yourfather staying while he was in
town? And then she goes throughthese photos of herself.

Matt (01:44:05):
Is this where we see the the more advanced, like,
forensics technicians at theshelter?

Rachel (01:44:13):
That was slightly earlier.

Matt (01:44:15):
Okay.

Rachel (01:44:15):
But, yeah, the, like, 6 foot tall black guy wearing
sunglasses?

Matt (01:44:18):
Yeah. Yeah. Inside at night?

Rachel (01:44:20):
Inside at night. Yeah. The I'm absolutely also a
vampire in the police force guy.

Matt (01:44:24):
He's so official.

Rachel (01:44:25):
Oh, yeah. He he, like, looks at her. He doesn't even
talk to her. He's just like, sobecause I'm I'm I'm doing I'm
dusting fingerprints in anofficial capacity over here. But
Laura's looking at pictures, andthis one that's, like, pictures
of her, pictures of her withchildren.

Matt (01:44:40):
On the topic of advanced crime scene technicians, we all
know how handsy Nick is. Yeah.His hands are all over
everything.

Rachel (01:44:49):
Yeah. They just have his fingerprints on file. They just

Matt (01:44:53):
like, 80% of every fingerprint that they pick up on
every crime scene, they're like,goddamn it.
Goddamn it.
Goddamn it. Had his hands all over this stuff. Wait.
Detective Knight wasn't evenassigned to this case. Why?
His hands all over.

Rachel (01:45:10):
Every year for Christmas, they just give him
boxes of gloves, and he waslike, great, guys. What are
these for? And they're like,god.

Matt (01:45:17):
You forgot again? Yeah. We know.

Rachel (01:45:20):
We puts them on the hands, Nick. We okay. When when
do I put them on the hands? Whenyou go to crime scenes. Why?
What?

Matt (01:45:29):
Is that a is that it's my fingerprints haven't been found
at crime scenes before. Like,nobody's ever mentioned it to
me.

Rachel (01:45:39):
Yeah.

Matt (01:45:39):
No. We we literally mentioned it to you every week,
and it it's a problem.

Rachel (01:45:44):
Plot plot twist?

Matt (01:45:45):
You're making a lot of

Rachel (01:45:53):
Cases from, like, the forties show up, and they're
like, the fuck? How's he onthose 2? So, secretly, every
advanced crime scene technonation knows Nick is has been a
police officer since, like,1960, but they all collectively
just don't talk about it.

Matt (01:46:10):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:46:10):
I love the what if literally everybody knows that
Nick is not human?

Matt (01:46:17):
And they just go along with it because he closes cases.

Rachel (01:46:19):
Yeah. They're like there's just like a when you
when you sign on to the 96thprecinct or whatever precinct
he's working on, there's like anextra form that's like, I will
encounter a detective who iscurrently calling himself
Nicholas Knight. I will not askhim probing questions. I will
not look into his backstory. Iwill not

Matt (01:46:37):
This humanoid entity may or may not be human.

Rachel (01:46:42):
If he tells me to go around, I will understand that
this is code, and I should justI should stop all recording
devices, turn off my bodycamera, and forget what I've
seen for the next half an hour.

Matt (01:46:52):
Just walk away. Just walk away. And wait for him to call
you.

Rachel (01:46:57):
Yeah. He may or may not also be known as the Toronto
moth man. Tell no one sign signhere. And you have to sign in
blood. Like Yeah.
I got a little I got a littlemothman plushie. I'm so happy
because I was like, oh, look.It's the mothman.

Matt (01:47:13):
Next time we go to Toronto, we need to get one of
those little

Rachel (01:47:16):
I'm taking them off, man.

Matt (01:47:17):
Infant, like, infant shirts. Yeah. The, like,
souvenir, like, Toronto shirts.And put it on the moth man.

Rachel (01:47:25):
Take pictures of it.

Matt (01:47:26):
Cut little wig holes in the back.

Rachel (01:47:28):
I'm doing it. I'm fucking doing it. The Toronto
Mothman visits Toronto. Yeah.Oh, I'm I'm here for this.

Matt (01:47:34):
Richard's home.

Rachel (01:47:36):
He's going on a pilgrimage back to the homeland.
So, anyway, Tracy is talking toher mom, and she's like, listen,
mom. You can stay in theapartment. It's fine. You know?
It's fine. And Tracy's mom goes,no. I'm gonna go home. I'm sorry
I got you involved. Good.

(01:47:56):
You should be. Really, I didwanna see you. And Tracy goes,
mom, I want you to say I wannawork this out. And her mom's
like, you know what? This isn'tthe thing that we work out
tonight.
This isn't the thing we work outright now. We may work this out
eventually, and we probablywill, but this isn't something
that we solve right now.

Matt (01:48:14):
Right. Her mom's finally like, this isn't something that
you need to get yourselfinvolved in. Yeah. Even though
I'm dragging you into this.

Rachel (01:48:23):
Yeah. You need to tell me no. You need to learn how to
tell me no, Tracy.

Matt (01:48:26):
You need to reinforce your boundaries. You need to
establish those.

Rachel (01:48:30):
Right. No. She doesn't.

Matt (01:48:33):
You need

Rachel (01:48:34):
to be the adult.

Matt (01:48:34):
Well, and she does she does need to enforce boundaries.

Rachel (01:48:39):
She may not know what she can tell her mom no,
Especially if her mom isunstable. Yeah. Yeah. And Tracy
ends up apologizing for theslap. And her mom's like, it
only hurt my pride.
I'll live. Reese and Tracy arenow in the interrogation room.
Because once she's done talkingto mommy, it's time to go talk
to Julie. And they're like,okay. Just to be clear, she came

(01:49:03):
by to drop off stuff for you,And Julie's like, yeah.
I needed some of my stuff. Itold you I left in a hurry. And
they're like, okay. Did shebring it in a bag? Did she bring
it in a suitcase?
What did she bring it in? Andshe's like, a bag. Yeah. Yeah.
No.
No. She brought it in a bag. Andthey're like, how did she how

(01:49:24):
did Jack, your dad, get in theroom, Julie? Because Laura said
she's real tight about securityexcept when she's not there, and
then she just leaves the doorunlocked.

Matt (01:49:34):
It's Right.
And there's literally nobody there. Like, the camera
follows Gloria and Jack in,like, in that flashback.

Rachel (01:49:44):
Yeah.

Matt (01:49:46):
There's no like, they walk through. They walk in the front
door, and they go up the stairs.There's nobody, like, there,
like, waiting, like, monitoring.Oh, okay. These people entered
at this time.
Yeah. There's no, like,electronic system on the door
Yeah. To, like, log when thedoor opens and closes. What does

(01:50:08):
she mean? Like, you have to geta pass to get in.
There was nobody there handingout passes. Yeah. There was
nobody there keeping a list.Yeah. How can they say she's
good on security?

Rachel (01:50:20):
Yeah. Correct. All correct. She also left everybody
alone. Just fucked off.
I can't

Matt (01:50:28):
believe her. Other doors.

Rachel (01:50:30):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Stay in the just stay inside y'all. It's
fine. The reporters are gonnacome here.
They're gonna reveal the adwe've already gone over this,
but just the negligence here, onLaura's part is probably one of
the most infuriating parts ofthis episode because she focuses
so strongly on Julie, and shefocuses so strongly on this

(01:50:52):
guilt of Jack, which is actuallyjust a reflection of what
happened to her, which istotally fine. Projection is
totally it's a trauma response.It happens, But she allows
herself to be swept away with bythis. And it it gives you the
sense that she has not put inthe work.

Matt (01:51:10):
Right.

Rachel (01:51:10):
And if she has not put in the work to come back from
the place where her abuser puther, then how can she be
expected to help other peopleput

Matt (01:51:20):
her on?
She gets she gets so caught up with Julie that she
ends up doing things thateffectively make her abandon all
of the other women that are inher care.

Rachel (01:51:35):
Oh, she scuttles her entire mission. Yeah. Everything
that she's worked for, she givesup. Yeah. Because now she's a
convicted murderer.

Matt (01:51:42):
Right.

Rachel (01:51:44):
Like, first degree murder, like, premeditated
murder.

Reporter (01:51:48):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:51:48):
Not cry yeah. Just of an innocent man.

Matt (01:51:52):
Well, she's not punishing him for the murder of the mom of
Gloria. She's punishing himretroactively for all the other
things that he hasn't beenconvicted
of.

Rachel (01:52:03):
Is where it just gets super murky. So we're just gonna
keep going because they're stilltalking to Julie and Julie's
like, well, he smashed throughthe window. He was in a rage.
And, Reese is like, Julie, therewas no bag of clothes in your
room, and they found yourfather's fingerprints on the
outside of your door and thewindow was broken from the

(01:52:27):
inside out. And then we cut toNick and Nick is at the shelter
and this is when Fred pulls outsome stops and we get some
reverb synth music.
It's like Yes. It's fairlypensive. I mean, I get it.

Matt (01:52:41):
He prewrote just a bunch of, like, canned background
music. And then they'd used itall, and they were like, okay.
Here's the last, like,prewritten one we have.

Rachel (01:52:51):
I think it's supposed to feel like suspenseful, pensive,
and I think it achieves that.

Matt (01:52:59):
Okay. And I've it felt this is, like, the first, like,
synthesizer, like, justbackground music I've noticed
Yeah. In the whole show.

Rachel (01:53:11):
Except for the elephants in the son of Billio. The

Matt (01:53:14):
Well yeah. Yeah. Yes. So
it Yeah. It didn't quite fit

Rachel (01:53:19):
Right. For me. Yeah. And then in Let No Man Tear Us
Under, there's the scene at thebeginning when we get the, like,
fast paced synthesizer music.Mhmm.

Matt (01:53:27):
We

Rachel (01:53:27):
get the, like, fast paced synthesizer music because
he's going to get ink, and hegets hit over the head or
whatever. But this was, yeah,this was so atypical. It stands
out, which is why I like itbecause it forces you to, like,
listen to it. It doesn't blendinto the background. And he goes
into Laura's room, and he'slike, Laura?
And then he looks around, and hefinds a bullet on the ground.

(01:53:49):
And he chooses to tell no one.

Matt (01:53:53):
Yep.

Rachel (01:53:55):
He does not warn anyone that Jack might be in danger. He
knows there is a uniformed copfollowing Jack around, and he
chooses not to tell anyone. Theycould have told that uniform.
They could have taken him intoprotective custody knowing Laura
was out there, knowing that hislife was in danger.

Matt (01:54:13):
Could have saved Jack and prevented Laura from, like,
ruining her life.

Rachel (01:54:20):
Yeah. He could have saved Laura by saving Jack, and
he chooses not to. And then weget a shot of Jack leaving his
hotel and getting into a cab,and this is when Laura gets out
and shoots him like a bunch.

Matt (01:54:37):
A bunch.

Rachel (01:54:38):
And then we hear LaCroix because LaCroix is like, I smell
drama. I feel like I need apodcast about this. And he's
like, I hear something familiaron the wind tonight. And I kept
it. There's a song where it'slike, I can feel it coming on
the wind tonight.
That's all I can think. I canfeel it coming in the air
anyway. Yeah. And he's like alonely woman's cry for justice

(01:55:01):
from beyond death.

I hear something familiar on the wind tonight. A
lonely woman's cry for justicefrom beyond death. And what
justice is sweeter than thatexacted by those who've been
wronged? What law more perfectthan that exercised manadvocate

(01:55:30):
who moves swiftly and withresolve? Only you who've
practiced it know what I'mtalking about.
A man that studyeth revengekeeps his own wounds green.

Rachel (01:55:47):
And this is when we get this is when we get, like, a mix
in of Nick's flashback of himkilling the guy who kills the
woman.

Matt (01:55:55):
Mhmm.

Rachel (01:55:55):
Unless she wasn't actually dead and LaCroix is the
one who killed her. I don'tknow. We're just gonna leave
that like that, which this feelsreal I didn't I did not like the
placement of this. I wanna livein this present time moment with
Nick making this awful choice

Matt (01:56:08):
Mhmm.

Rachel (01:56:08):
And Laura making this choice and everybody making
choices that, feel a little bitdark, and yet we get this we
even change the music back tothe standard flashback music.

Matt (01:56:18):
Mhmm.

Rachel (01:56:20):
That's why I don't like it. It just feels like, whoop,
it pulls you out, and you'relike, oh, damn it. I wanted to
live. I wanted to live in thismoment. But we get Nick killing
the guy.

Matt (01:56:28):
Big vigilante vibes

Rachel (01:56:30):
at the end. So we're like, Nick has done this before.
But when Nick did it, he justfades back into the shadows. It
changes nothing. When Laura doesit, it

Matt (01:56:47):
Mhmm.

Rachel (01:56:47):
She's not gonna get grants. She's not gonna get she
can't set up the system again.She doesn't get that back.

Matt (01:56:54):
Right. Although she could convincingly say, hey. If you
come stay with me, I willprotect you.

Rachel (01:57:02):
An underground shelter?

Matt (01:57:03):
I will avenge you.

Rachel (01:57:06):
I guess that's why this episode's avenging angel. And
Lacroix continues, like, whatjustice is sweeter than that
exacted by those who have beenwronged? Only you who have done
it will understand. A man thatstudyeth revenge keeps his own
wounds green, which is a FrancisBacon quote. Yep.
Green as in fresh. Yeah. I thinkso. Either green as in fresh or

(01:57:30):
green as in gangrenous. Like

Matt (01:57:32):
Green as in fresh and growing.

Rachel (01:57:35):
Yeah. And worsening.

Yeah.

Rachel (01:57:37):
Like, when you when you study it revenge, your wounds
don't heal. Yeah. Yeah. So thenwe come back. Nick comes back
from his flashback, and he hearsthe radio calling for him
because he's like they're like,there's shots fired at this
hotel.
81 kilo. Please respond. AndNick does not answer. And then
we fade to black and we get thislong black moment with, like, a

(01:58:01):
heartbeat sound. And then whenwe come back, Nick is rushing
into the precinct like, oh,guys, what happened?
Woah. What's going on? And hegoes, where are they? Talking
about Reese and Tracy and Julie.And a uniform tells him that
Tracy and Reese are in theinterrogation room.
They've been in there for hourstalking to Julie, and this is

(01:58:24):
when he walks into the room ofall consequence, the the cinder
block room. And Julie isconfessing to the murder. She
says, I hated that he tried tokeep us together. Natalie's in
there watching this because it'sthe end of her shift. I guess
she came to go check-in oneverybody, check on Nick, see
how he was handling this.

(01:58:44):
And he actually as soon as hehears that she's confessing, he
turns around like, oh my god.What did I do? And Natalie puts
a hand on him like she knows.She doesn't know. She's just
comforting him at random.
Right. Julie continues, like, mymom brought my dad over that
night to apologize. And I don'tknow what happened. I just

(01:59:07):
snapped. And I was so angry thatmy mom would betray me like
that.
And she I don't know how manytimes I stabbed her. And then my
dad jumped out the window to getaway with get away from me.
Like, you were right. I was themurderer. And that's when
they're like, Julie, where'd youhide the where'd you hide the
murder weapon?
And we see it. Like, we see theflashback of her sticking it in

(01:59:30):
the grate. Mhmm. And then wejust go straight to the end
credits.

Matt (01:59:33):
Boom. Done.

Rachel (01:59:34):
Boom. Done. And that's it. That's the end of that
fucking episode. And this is agood episode of television.
This is like this lingers for along time, and it should because
we don't solve anything.Everybody gets their hands
dirty.

Matt (01:59:52):
Yeah. And Except for Reese.

Rachel (01:59:54):
Except for Reese and Natalie. Although even Natalie
is like, damn, I I hate to thinkthis guy is gonna get away. I
mean, it's a lot. It's a lot.How did you feel how did you
feel going from so we did all ofseason 1, which was mostly just
shenanigans.

Matt (02:00:13):
Mhmm.

Rachel (02:00:14):
And then season 2, which was safe shenanigans, and then
the opening of season 3, whichwas, like, vampire doc and,
underground organ sellers andjust you know? And then all of a
sudden, safe is out the window,and we are doing some really
difficult episodes. So how doyou feel about this episode in

(02:00:35):
context with all of the rest offorever night that we've
watched?

Matt (02:00:40):
And I I like the deeper, darker themes, but it's this
what the contrast between thisepisode and the previous episode
is a little much.

Rachel (02:00:55):
Oh, you mean, human factor? Or you mean previous
episodes as in, like, the justwhat what is

Matt (02:01:02):
the vampires play.

Rachel (02:01:03):
Yeah. Exact yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We really go from, like,
woo hoo hoo, vampire stuff to,like, guys, sometimes there's no
right answer.
Right.

Matt (02:01:14):
Like, this felt this felt a lot like a an episode of Law
and Order SVU.

Rachel (02:01:21):
I think yeah. You know what? I think, the procedural
drama the procedural dramaformula had advanced a lot since
we came out in 93, 92 and 93.And I think this is like an arms
race. Everybody's trying to keepup with, the drama.

Matt (02:01:39):
Yeah. Because we've we barely got any vampire stuff in
this episode.

Rachel (02:01:43):
Yeah. Yeah. This is not about him being a vampire. And
then if it is, it's onlymarginally. It's about, like,
the nature of guilt and thenature of forgiveness.
And where does your duty lie in,you know, in the in, you know,

(02:02:04):
the carrying out of justice? Andwhat is justice? Does is it
justified that this man dies?Because even though he wasn't
guilty of this particular crime,he was certainly guilty of a
lot. Yeah.
Yeah. And end credits. That'sit. And it certainly makes it

(02:02:26):
hard to talk about. This feels alittle bit like last act where
Nick was contemplating suicidethe whole episode.
And, like, how do you talk aboutthat in a way that feels
sensitive and understanding? Andhow do you I can't even imagine
contemplating making an episodeabout this and putting it out

(02:02:49):
into the universe to exist inperpetuity. Like Yeah. Creating
this original episode, writingthe script, and then being like,
sure. Yeah.
That feels like it thematicallyfollows Vampire Dog. Yeah. Let's
cure MS with vampirism, and thenlet's let's tackle, an
existential fucking crisis,which is what Nick is going
through. Nick is going throughan existential crisis, and this

(02:03:12):
is absolutely a step in theLacroix direction.

Matt (02:03:16):
And, I guess, looking forward, we can really go only
go up in mood Can we? For forthe next episode.

Rachel (02:03:28):
Let me look at what the next episode is.

Matt (02:03:30):
18?

Rachel (02:03:32):
Correct. Yes. Thank you.

Matt (02:03:34):
We can only go up numerically for

Rachel (02:03:37):
We can only go up numerically. I don't think we go
up tone wise for all. Really?Oh, fallen idol. Hey.
We're finally at the HaydenChristensen episode. Oh, good.
I've been promising you forever.

Matt (02:03:51):
Mhmm.

Rachel (02:03:53):
Does it go up in tone?

Matt (02:03:54):
This feels like a low point.

Rachel (02:03:57):
Oh, does it?

Matt (02:03:58):
But not at a local minimum, not a global minimum.

Rachel (02:04:02):
I'm trying. Spoiler free life is what I'm doing. So we're
not gonna discuss this anymore.And then in 4 episodes, when we
hit the seed series finale, wewill talk about whether this
episode is actually a low pointor not.

Matt (02:04:18):
A local minimum, not a global minimum.

Rachel (02:04:20):
Oh, okay.

Matt (02:04:21):
I think it's gonna go back up and then down again.

Rachel (02:04:24):
Okay. Alright. Well, I have that prediction on record,
so we'll find out. What we doneed to do is plan our live
watch along

Matt (02:04:33):
For
the finale.

Rachel (02:04:34):
For the finale appropriately titled Last Night,
because I feel like that'ssomething everyone should share
in. So that'll probably besomething we do on the Discord.
So if you are not already amember of our Patreon, you can
join our Patreon. $5 a monthgets you access to the discord

(02:04:54):
where we have a lot of fun.Currently, we're discussing Dune
2 and some book recommendationsand a couple other things, and
it's fun.
And I'm usually on there. So ifyou send me messages elsewhere,
I may or may not get them, and Imay or may not respond, but I'm
generally on the Discord. And $5a month is a coffee, so buy us a
coffee once a month. Thatdoesn't that's not so bad. Or

(02:05:17):
you can join for just a dollar.
You don't get Discord, but youdo get the satisfaction of
knowing that you have supportedour content. We've had a lot of
we've had a general upswing inlisteners, so maybe nobody's
heard me say it, which is whyI'm saying it again. If you find
me on Instagram, I generallypost all of our our whole
network episodes on there so youcan keep up with what episodes

(02:05:39):
I'm posting on the network. Ialso post on threads. I'm a
little more chatty on threads,just because it's fun and
because the format lends itselfto being very chatty, so that's
generally what I do.
And, also, we have a website,which is
strangeandbeautiful.club, whichI just updated with all of our
current, podcast offerings. Andthere is a link on there for one

(02:06:03):
time donations if you feel likesupporting us, but also Patreon
if you wanna join Patreon andour YouTube channel if you wanna
follow us on YouTube, whichguess what? It looks exactly the
same as this except for thestill photo because I don't like
taking videos of myself andputting them on the Internet.
So, yeah, if you enjoy ourcontent, do consider going to
support us. If you can'tfinancially afford the $5 right

(02:06:25):
now, which, fuck, we've beenthere, so I totally get it.
A 5 star review on any ofpodcast app that you use also
helps us out and telling yourfriends. So I just wanna do a
little PSA about how to help. Ifyou enjoy our content and you
want us to keep making it,that's a good way to support us.
So 5 star review or join ourPatreon. You can join our

(02:06:48):
Patreon for free.
I do update it periodically. I'mtrying to get better. I'm gonna
get better.

Matt (02:06:54):
But you've been you've been posting, books.

Rachel (02:06:57):
Yeah. I post book reviews on there. I I wanna
figure out content that feelsnetwork specific. And I don't
know. We have a suggestion formon our If you have something you
think you want to see includedon the Patreon, what would tempt
you into joining the Patreon?
Feel free to contact me there,or you can email me at, the
hosts atstrangeandbeautiful.club. And I

(02:07:20):
think that's a good place toleave it. Till next time,
friends.

Matt (02:07:24):
Bye.

Rachel (02:07:38):
Please respond. 81, please respond.

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Forever Knight (Season 3 Ep 17) - "Avenging Angel

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Forever Knight (Season 3 Ep 17) - "Avenging Angel