Forever Knight (Season 3 Ep 20) - "Francesca" - Come in 81 Kilo: A Forever Knight Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Reese (00:00):
I've been on the 4th for a long time. I've seen nutcases
who thought they were everythingfrom Louis the 14th to Elvis'
alien love child. Let's keepthis one in the real world.
Okay? Yeah.

Nick (00:13):
I'll do my best.

Matt (00:16):
Welcome back, friends.

Rachel (00:17):
Welcome back. But we didn't say hi. I'm Rachel.

Matt (00:21):
Hi. I'm Rachel. And I'm poop.

Rachel (00:28):
Why you can't do me like that? Can we do this again? Hi.
I'm Rachel.

Matt (00:33):
And I'm Matt.

Rachel (00:34):
And this is Come in 81 kilo.

Matt (00:38):
A forever night podcast.

Rachel (01:30):
That was the smoothest one I think we have ever done,
and guess what, y'all? This isthe 3rd to last episode.

Matt (01:37):
It's because I I did I messed up the first one on
purpose.

Rachel (01:40):
You don't need to start. Don't start perfect. Just start.
Alright. So welcome backfriends.
It's time forever a forevernight episode, forever night
season 3 episode 20, Francesca.And I promised you this episode
was gonna have anotherdisclaimer, so here we go. This

(02:03):
episode is 30 years old. The waythat we interacted with the
kinds of questions that thisepisode leaves you asking was so
far removed from the way we talkabout these things now that I
can't even begin to describe toyou how much language around
gender confirmation and genderstudies and all of that that I

(02:28):
have had to learn in mylifetime. And the way that this
episode treats it is this is aheterosexual cisgendered man who
is having dreams about a vampirewoman named Francesca.

Matt (02:49):
From the perspective of that woman, Francesca.

Rachel (02:53):
That he is Francesca and that he is having sex dreams
about having intimate relationswith a man as Franchesca, and
that this makes him souncomfortable that he has sought
therapy. And the therapistmentions that traditional
therapy has failed him, and sothat is how he has ended up with

(03:15):
this past life regressiontherapist. So this man has been
seeking therapy for these dreamsfor a while.

Matt (03:23):
You haven't turned off the drawl yet.

Rachel (03:26):
I haven't. This is why I shouldn't have started the
podcast with my Southern accent.

Matt (03:32):
Therapy.

Rachel (03:33):
Therapy. What did I say?

Matt (03:35):
Oh, you've been doing the therapy.

Rachel (03:37):
Therapy. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know that. I have
another way of saying that.
But anyway, what I'm trying tosay is the way this man is
treated is almost as if he ispossessed by the spirit of
Francesca. And this is a littlelike in Sons of Billial, where
by the end of it, Nick is moreBillial than he is Nick. At the
end of this, Frank is moreFrancesca than he is Francesca.

(04:02):
I do not think this episode wastrying to raise questions of
gender confirmation, whether ornot this man who was assigned
male at birth was, trans oranything like that. I don't
think that that was the dialoguethis episode was having.
I think that's a 2024 view ofwhat they're talking about. And

(04:26):
while there's certainly a lot ofdiscussion to be had around that
in this episode, we are going tolimit our discussion to the
confines of what they are doingin the episode, which is framing
this as a man who is possessedby the spirit of a female
vampire. And as such, I'll referto Frank with he, him pronouns.
I'll refer to Francesca withshe, her pronouns, and we'll

(04:51):
just leave it at that. Okay.
Does that sound good? Yep. Okay.Put a lot of thought into that.
I pulled the discord.
I was like, help me. I wannamake sure that I I think about
this, that I'm not just like,I'm gonna discuss it like this.
You know? Because there's, youknow, this has become a more

(05:13):
complicated episode over timethan it was ever intended to be
initially. It's kind of like AceVentura, the first one where the
bad the the perpetrator of thecrime ends up being trans, and
that has aged like absoluteshit.

(05:34):
And I can't even describe to youhow I can I'm not going to
because it's almost traumaticeven remembering, that movie. So
we're just gonna move on.

Matt (05:45):
This reminded me of how in Children of Dune, Leto the
second can, like, channel hisfemale ancestors.

Rachel (05:55):
Yeah. Kinda like that, except, this guy is real
conflicted about it. Yeah. Hedoesn't like that he can feel
what it's like to be a woman.But we open on a pale pale.
She's so pale. We kinda ditchedthe pale makeup in season 1.

(06:16):
There are times where he'salmost, like, comically,
cartoonishly clown pale withbright pink cheeks and pink
lips, and, we had kinda ditchedthat. We were done with it. He's
just sort of gare at this point.
I don't know. He's not evengetting haircuts anymore right
now, so it's, like, it's totallyfine. But then this lady shows

(06:38):
up and they were like, hey. Westill have, like, 3 containers
of that pale foundation fromseason 1. What are we gonna do
with it when they end?
They're like, oh, just put itall on her. It's perfectly fine.

Matt (06:48):
Yeah. Because you clear out the supplies before the show
ended.

Rachel (06:51):
Yeah. So she's, like, super pale. I guess maybe if you
were a redhead and you getturned into a vampire, how what
level of paleness could youpossibly achieve?

Matt (07:02):
Is this new life goals for me?

Rachel (07:03):
Deep, deep paleness. So she's super pale. She's walking
around with some candles, andshe walks up to this guy in a
cage, and she snarls at the guyin the cage. And then we we're
kinda cutting back and forthbetween what's happening in the
past and what's happening in thepresent. And in the present,
this person with long hairwearing a dress is carrying a
guy and lays him out on thistable.

(07:24):
And then in the past, we seethis lady stab the guy from the
cage through the heart with adagger. And then in the present,
the man already has a dagger inhis chest, and then we see his
throat get slit with a scalpel.And then in the past, we see
this lady drink a cup of thedude's blood and then go to kiss
him. And then actually what wesee is in the present, the guy

(07:46):
on the table in the restauranthas a kiss print on his
forehead. And then the person inlong hair and a dress walks off,
and that is the introduction tothis episode

Matt (07:59):
of Crime is established.

Rachel (08:01):
Yeah. That's hard. It was brought across in 12/28. I
feel like we've never actuallydone that whole monologue on the
91 kilo, which just feels like aloss.

Matt (08:12):
That'll be a bonus after we finish the series.

Rachel (08:16):
Yeah. We have to decide if we're gonna do any that's
fine. We're gonna already getthere. So we come back to a slow
motion vampire sex scene withthe red headed lady who we find
out is Franchesca and Nick,which we kinda bury the lead
that this is Nick for a whilebecause we're only seeing the
back of his head.

Matt (08:35):
But we all knew.

Rachel (08:36):
We all know. Who else no. There's no way Garrett was
like, wait a minute. Somebodyelse getting a sex scene? I'm
sorry, but I'm fucking in onthis.
Drop me in, coach. I'm so ready.And just to make everything feel
even more awkward, I guess,Frank is describing what it
feels like to have sex withNick. So he says, the first sip

(09:01):
is like an explosion.

Matt (09:04):
Right. Because they're drinking each other's blood.

Rachel (09:06):
Right. Because they're vampires, and that's how they do
it. Mhmm. And she he he,Franchesca. Oh my god.
This is such a minefield becausewe know how loosely attached I
am to pronouns at any givenmoment anyway. Now I really have
to pay attention. I am doing mybest.

Matt (09:22):
Narrating his recollection.

Rachel (09:24):
I know. I've let me have a moment here. I feel like I'm
wearing one of those name tagsthat's like, hello, I'm and then
underneath it just says, doingmy best. That's me right now.
Aren't we all?
Yeah. But surprise. It's thishypnotized guy. Frank is being
hypnotized, and he's describingall the stuff that's happening.
And he's like, I know hisdreams, his fears, his loves.
And then we get a more graphicdescription of vampire sex.

(09:47):
Like, I can taste his blood inmy blood in his blood as I'm
drinking his blood, and I canfeel him against me and blah
blah blah. And, she commences todescribe Nick as well. She's
like, he is like, I can tastethe sands of Jerusalem in his

(10:08):
veins, which makes me wonder,was he part of one of the
crusades that actually made itto Jerusalem? Because not all of
them made it to Jerusalem.
There were a bunch of Crusades.It wasn't just the Crusades.
There were, like,

Matt (10:21):
a bunch of the group of Crusades across a period of
time.

Rachel (10:25):
There's one called the children's crusade where a whole
bunch of kids got together anddecided they were gonna go
liberate Jerusalem, and I don'teven think they made it out of
England.

Matt (10:32):
That reminds me of one time at scout camp.

Rachel (10:35):
Mhmm.

Matt (10:38):
All the all the really young scouts

Rachel (10:40):
like a good stuff.

Matt (10:41):
Had gotten their their tote and chick card

Rachel (10:44):
Yeah.

Matt (10:44):
Which, like, you passed the

Rachel (10:47):
You get to carry a knife.

Matt (10:48):
Evaluation for being able to carry a knife. And one of the
kids decided, we're gonna gobear hunting.

Rachel (10:56):
Mhmm.

Matt (10:57):
And so he and some other kids tied their knives to the
ends of sticks and went off intothe woods, and they all lost
their tote and shit cards thatday.

Rachel (11:11):
Kinda like that.

Matt (11:12):
After they were all corralled back to the
campground.

Rachel (11:14):
Like that, except they were going to go murder people
in a city and take it over forthe Lord.

Matt (11:19):
Yeah. Yeah. A little bit different.

Rachel (11:22):
Kids. So then he's like, I die in his arms, and he dies
in mine. And we repeat thisquite a bit, and he starts to
freak out. And this is when thetherapist breaks Frank out of it
because he's, like, writhingaround in the chair, and he's,
like, I die in his arms, and hedies in mine. He dies in mine.
And she's, like, Frank. Frank,snap out of it. Good thing she

(11:45):
had a code word to get him outjust in case he was insensitive.

Matt (11:48):
It was this code word just yelling Frank really loudly.

Rachel (11:51):
When I say, Frank, quit it, you will wake up. Okay.
Yeah. She doesn't strike me as,like, trained. Something about
all the native iconography allaround her room makes me feel
like she probably took acorrespondence course with the
lady from Blackwing.
It was like, I think I got this.And she's been trying to reach

(12:16):
her for clarification, but forsome reason, she's not picking
up her phone. Darnest thing. Oh,wait. She died.
Oh, because Nick took over herbody. Oh, that was a deep cut.
So, anyway, the therapist, heasks Frank asks the therapist
for details. He's like, okay. Sowhat happened?
Like, what's my past life? Was IRasputin, Hitler? Was I on the

(12:38):
Titanic? You know, what's goingon here? And she's like, oh, you
know, that's not like what we dohere.
I'm not gonna give you any ofthat. It's not about finding out
who you are. It's about justexploring your fears and your
subconscious and all the thingsthat are manifesting themselves
as a, quote, past life. And he'slike, oh, okay. Cool.

(13:00):
But, like, can you just give mea hint, like, a little hint?
Maybe? You have to understandhow disturbing this is for me is
what he says, which is why we'regoing with the he is a reluctant
participant in the, a femalevampire has taken over my body
situation. And, I really thinkFrank is one of the victims in

(13:22):
this scenario when you frame itthat way because he was just a
regular dude. And then all of asudden, he started having dreams
about being this 18th centuryvampire, and by the end of it,
he gets murdered by the same guywho murdered that 18th century
vampire.

Matt (13:38):
It's just another way that vampires violate your bodily
autonomy.

Rachel (13:43):
Oh, I know we're gonna have to have that talk because
we have that talk in thisepisode. But I'm I'm gonna keep
that in a little envelope, kindalike it's the Oscars, and we're
not gonna open it until we getto that part of the show.

Matt (13:58):
Okay.

Rachel (13:59):
Okay. So then the therapist tells him, you're
gonna be alright and, like,shuts the door in his face.
Like, bye, Frank. You're gonnabe fine. And then she goes back
and replays the last part of histape, which is the, like, he
dies in mine, and she's like,whew.
Intense. You got a lot going on.And then we cut to the crime
scene, and it's Nick walking outof this, whatever, restaurant

(14:23):
with Tracy, and he's like, oh,the victim was a poet. He was
last seen on Queen Street. Oh,he died.
And then they walk up toNatalie, and Natalie's standing
there with the body. So she mustnow tell them how he died
because those are the rules.Mhmm. And so Natalie says, he
took a knife to the heart. Itkilled him instantly.

(14:46):
His throat was slashed afterdeath, and then he was drained
of blood. And since there's noblood around anywhere here, it
kind of seems like maybe thekiller took the blood away with
her. And we refer to the killeras female for most of this
episode based solely on the kissprint on the forehead.

Matt (15:05):
Tsk. Tsk. Tsk.

Rachel (15:07):
So good to know we just slid right in there with the
expectations. Yeah. It's fine.You know what? Actually, this is
better police work than hashappened in the last two
episodes.
I don't know. But she did leavea distinctive calling card,

(15:27):
which is the kiss print, andNatalie says this is as clear as
a fingerprint if you can find asuspect to compare it to, and
Nick sees the kiss print, andhe's like, oh shit. And this
actually throws him into aflashback, and it is LaCroix and
Nick arriving at Francesca'shouse and having an immediate

(15:53):
fall in lust moment?

Matt (15:55):
Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nick's used to this.

Rachel (15:59):
You know what? I really think the line that sold it for
Nick was when Lacroix stands upand goes, hello. Let me
introduce you to Franchesca,your sister. And Lacroix is like
Nick's like, oh, tell me more.Really?
I was married to one of mysisters for, like, a 100 years
until she left me. I've got athing for sisters. It's a little

(16:21):
gross. I mean, when you thinkabout it too deeply, it's a
little gross because clearlynone of these women are into
LaCroix. Like, LaCroix didn'thave a that kind of relationship
with Janette.
He didn't have that kind ofrelationship with Franchesca
because he's their sire, liketheir master. Right. And yet
Nick is just fucking around thefamily tree is what he's doing.

(16:46):
So, I mean, I guess I don'tknow. But if when LaCroix
changed Nick, did Nick now haveLaCroix blood or at least some
part of Lacroix's blood in hisbody?
And then if he did, then whenFrancesca got changed, the same
thing would have happened toher. And so then when they had
sex, it'd be like drinking asibling's blood.

Matt (17:04):
No. They only ever have blood in their body that they've
recently consumed.

Rachel (17:10):
Right. But we just talked about this a couple
episodes ago where you insistedthat the vampire body changed
the blood, and then it becametheir memories and their
feelings. And so if it wentthrough enough of a process, it
would have changed into Nick'sdefault blood content, and that
would be

Matt (17:29):
It would have been overlaid with Nick's
experiences, but the red bloodcells belong to the the cow.

Rachel (17:41):
Yeah. Oh. Anyway, this is his sister, and this is a
little bit gross. So, LaCroixgoes, we found ourselves in
urgent need of travel, whichprobably translates to we cut up
to shenanigans. We had to getthe fuck out of it.
Yeah. And Francesca's like,yeah. Cool. Yeah. No worries.

(18:01):
Yeah. You know, you're alwayswelcome at any house of mine,
and LaCroix is like, see, toldyou, Nick. She's the best. And
Nick is like, yeah. But Laquadidn't tell me how beautiful you
were.
Not that I would have believedhim if he had, Just pretty
smooth fucking life. And that'sa good one.

Matt (18:18):
Pretty good.

Rachel (18:19):
I've never heard of you, but I wouldn't have believed any
stories about you anyway becauseyou're way better in reality.
And Francesca invites them todinner. She's like, I was just
about to dine, and this is whenwe'll cause, like, Lacroix.
Lacroix. Lacroix is like, oh,yeah.
Her estate is known for itsvintages, which should include
Nick to the the fact thatsomething was going to happen

(18:41):
because LaCroix was like, oh,hell yeah. I love it when
Franchesca cooks.

Matt (18:47):
Mhmm.

Rachel (18:48):
And she tells them she has a special treat.

Matt (18:51):
Hella sauce.

Rachel (18:52):
Hella sauce. And we come back to the crime scene, and
Tracy gets this weird subplot inthis episode, which is
introduced in this moment by herfeeling of deja vu. She's like,
anybody else feel really creepedout by this? Like, they
recognize it. Like, they knowwhat's happening.
Like, I feel deja vu right now.And Nick is like, okay. And I'm

(19:14):
not really gonna address itagain because I think it's
weird, and I don't know why weincluded it. But apparently,
Tracy You know what? Fuckingfine.
Why not? You know what? Sure.Sure. And, you know what?

(19:34):
It's better than Natalie'simmediate armchair
quarterbacking

Matt (19:48):
Because all crime is sexual in nature.

Rachel (19:51):
There is no sign of sexual assault. There is no sign
that this was sexuallymotivated, which must mean it's
sexually motivated.

Matt (20:01):
It's sexually motivated in a way we can't see.

Rachel (20:04):
And then she goes on. She doubles down and says that
this killer is substitutingkilling for sex, and she can
tell that because nothing sexualhappened.

Matt (20:16):
And there's no evidence of anything sexual happening.

Rachel (20:19):
And then she says, we are Okay. Like Tracy? You,
Natalie? Okay. Are we projectingjust a little bit here?

(20:40):
Because it kinda feels like it.Because she's like, oh, yeah.
Yeah. This lady is reallyrepressed. Like, there's this
guy that she really likes, andshe really wants to get with
him.
But for some reason, he'stotally he, like, he totally
rebuffs every single chance. Andthis one time, he probably took
her out to dinner, and shedoesn't really remember what
happened, which is kinda weirdbecause this guy can also
hypnotize people. And maybe shegot hypnotized and something

(21:01):
really did happen, but it wasreally weird and he didn't want
her to remember. Anyway, so Ithink she's really repressed.
Thank you, Natalie.
I mean, I just really I reallyam.

Matt (21:12):
Everybody has experiences like that. Right? Yeah.

Rachel (21:14):
It's totally fine. So then we cut to Frank, and Frank
is putting a weapon in thisbreastplate that he has bolted
to a cinder block wall.

Matt (21:25):
Sure. Why not? Doesn't everybody have a room like this?

Rachel (21:29):
Yeah. I don't know what's happening here. We don't
actually figure out where thatis until the very end of the
episode. I guess we're supposedto be like, it's his apartment,
but his apartment doesn't havecinder blocks. So I don't

Matt (21:43):
know. It's, the slaughterhouse?

Rachel (21:48):
It is. Yeah.

Matt (21:49):
Yeah. Yeah. But what slaughterhouse? What so is that,
like, his day job or something?Why does he have access to this?

Rachel (21:55):
I don't know. Because I don't fucking know. Because Nick
is like, oh, the chef in theslaughterhouse. She said it.
Then he just dips, and then hegoes straight to wherever
Franchesca is.
Like, maybe there's only oneslaughterhouse in the entirety
of Toronto, and Nick just knewwhere it was. Maybe that's where
he gets his Kirkland blood kegsnow that Costco has discontinued

(22:16):
them. Slaughterhouse. Yeah.Maybe it's the one that he met
Laquanne in Dark Knight.

Matt (22:24):
The one that Laquano owns as a subsidiary of the Raven.

Rachel (22:29):
This doesn't in any way look like a slaughterhouse. It's
just a brick building. And he'sgot like a cage in it, and
somehow he cooked there. I don'tknow what's happening. It's
fine.
It doesn't matter. It doesn'tmatter. And then we go back to
the morgue, and Natalie, iscalling Nick out for being a
little bit quiet about thiscase. She's like, you're not
saying a whole lot about thiscase. And he goes, okay.

(22:50):
So what were the stomachcontents?

Matt (22:53):
A hem.

Rachel (22:54):
A hem and sat sadly. Natalie Natalie says he had
expensive pate, steak, caviar,and a good merlot, like, only
meat. He had meat. He had apate. He had steak.
And then he had caviar. What? Doyou think he took do you think
she took a steak, smeared thepate on top, and then put the
caviar on top of the pate, andthen served it like a sandwich,

(23:17):
like with a good Merlot? And shegoes, the condemned man's last
meal. What if somebody put apate steak and caviar in front
of me, I'd be like, what thefuck is happening right now?

Matt (23:30):
I'd eat the steak.

Rachel (23:31):
I don't know what the pate and the caviar. Maybe if
they put it together as asandwich. And then she goes, or
was he being fattened for thekill? And Nick is like, maybe.
And Natalie goes, well, the kissprint had a mixture of lipstick
and blood, so she's drinkingtheir blood.

Matt (23:52):
This guy's blood has

Rachel (23:54):
his blood. His blood. Yeah.

Matt (23:55):
Yeah. She

Rachel (23:56):
goes, his blood, Nick. She's drinking their blood.
Could also just be putting it onher lips Right. And then kissing
him on the forehead. But that'sfine, Natalie.
You know what? Just keep leapinto those conclusions. Maybe
that's how she's getting herexercise today. I don't know.
But she confronts Nick aboutthis maybe being a vampire.

(24:16):
She's like, this this killer isdrinking the blood, so they're
obviously a vampire becausehumans can't like, if you try to
drink blood, your body has a wayof shutting that down.

Matt (24:31):
The human body was a way of shutting that down.

Rachel (24:35):
Remember that senator? Yeah. Do you remember that?
Okay. Yeah.
Look it up. So anyway yeah. Sowe know it doesn't go past the
lips like a an invisible forcefield appears, and if you try it
just, like, falls out the sideof your mouth. Weirdest thing.
And he tells her because shesays, well, there's no fang
marks.
You know, like, I got his he gothis throat slit. So I guess he

(24:57):
can't be a vampire. And Nick'slike, why me? It still could be.

Matt (25:02):
It takes all kinds.

Rachel (25:04):
He tells her there's no fang marks because killing the
victim with a knife to theheart, makes the usual methods
unfeasible. Niklika, I know thatthere are no fang marks.

Nick (25:15):
There wouldn't be. Killed with a knife to the heart,
sudden death sweetens the blood,but it stops the circulation. We
need the beating heart to feed,to bring the blood to the neck.
If the victim's dead, the bodyhas to be drained.

Rachel (25:35):
So this is a vampire?

Nick (25:37):
I've seen it done before.

Matt (25:40):
Right. Because they need the heart to keep pumping blood
up

Rachel (25:43):
to the neck. Yep. He says sudden death sweetens the
blood, but stops thecirculation. And so you can't
feed the normal way becausenothing is bringing blood to
you, so you have to drain thebody in order to drink the
blood. And Natalie's like, oh,yeah.
That makes a lot of sense. Shegoes, so it is a vampire. I

(26:05):
mean, he didn't say that. Hejust said that were I a as a
vampire, were I to kill someonethis way, here's how I would
drink the blood afterwards. Andthen we go immediately into a
flashback, and they're watchingthis concert of like a string
quartet.
And I love how the way that thepeople are playing the
instruments has nothing to dowith the music that's playing.

Matt (26:26):
The magic of cinema.

Rachel (26:29):
And LaCroix is like, you know, I taught Nero how to play
the fiddle. We played ittogether as Rome burned. I just
feel like quoting Dark Knight,and I don't know why. I'm
feeling nostalgic for thebeginning now that we're at the
end. Mhmm.
And Nick gets really excited.He's like, oh my god. They did
such a good job. You can feelthe passion, and you just don't

(26:52):
feel passion in people anymoreyet because they now live past
the age of 40, so you're not,like, burning the candle on both
ends to squeeze it all in toyour 2 decades of life. And he
talks to Forbear, who is theviolinist, and he goes, you have
a brilliant future ahead of you.
And then and then Francesca islike, you guys are done for the
night. You guys can go to bed.Tell the other tell the other

(27:13):
musicians, you know. Go go backto your cages, I guess. You know
that Well,

Matt (27:18):
are they in the cages yet? I imagine they they have nice
rooms right now.

Rachel (27:22):
Yeah. Right now. And LaCroix goes, see, it was worth
the ride out here. I told you.Right, Nick?
And he goes, yeah. Especiallywhen one has to leave Paris in a
bit of a hurry. Then he's like,how do you get these artists all
the way out here? This is reallygreat. How do you get them to
come to you?
And she's like, oh my god.Nobody pays artists. All I have
to do is tell them I'm gonnagive them food, and they'd

(27:42):
literally just come out here.It's like, I don't even have to
hypnotize them. It's theweirdest thing.
And then he goes, oh, well, musteveryone sing for their center
set Must everyone sing for theirsupper countess? And she
replies, all my guests must earnmy approval, but you will not

(28:03):
have to sing. All my guests mustearn my approval, monsieur. You
will not have to sing. And helooks so jazzed.
He's like, he

Matt (28:18):
knows exactly. He's picking up what she's putting
down.

Rachel (28:22):
Oh, he was also putting it down. He was throwing so much
down. She tripped over it, andhe pretty much figured that that
was her picking it up. And nowhe they're all in. So it's just
happening.
And then we come back to thepresent, and Natalie is like,
okay. So you know who did this?Like, you've seen this before?
And he's like, well, yeah. Butshe It can't be her.

(28:44):
She dead. And this is when Tracycomes in, and she's like, we
found another body. It's in aparking garage in the beaches.
We probably should head outthere. So they go out there and
then we get introduced to thisreporter, which I love how we've
gone 74 episodes and we've had 2episodes, 3.
Maybe 3 episodes with reportersever and this is the first time

(29:07):
we introduce 1 and he gets aname and a backstory. I mean,
he's kinda useful for the plot.Like, he's required for the
plot, so I get it. But also Idon't know. It's just weird to
throw this guy in here, in the,like, of the whole series.
So they get stopped by thisreporter, and they actually stop

(29:27):
and talk to him even thoughTracy immediately tells him, go
swallow a sock, Fuller.

Matt (29:33):
That was an interesting rebuttal.

Rachel (29:36):
Yeah. Oh, go swallow a sock, Fuller.

Matt (29:39):
Quite know how like, what's the severity of go
swallow a sock? Go fuckyourself.

Rachel (29:48):
But we can't say it on USA.

Matt (29:51):
Is that higher or is that above or below? Like, what what
what's the the unusual way I sawit written down? It was like, go
consume a satchel of Richards.

Rachel (30:05):
Yeah. Kinda like that. Yeah. Or like in shows like
Farscape where they would makeup cuss words?

Matt (30:12):
Yeah.

Rachel (30:12):
Wasn't it Frell?

Matt (30:14):
Yep.

Rachel (30:14):
Yeah. So, anyway, blah blah blah. Doesn't matter. No
comment. The only reason thisreporter is here is because he
leaks this news to the press,and that's how we get in touch
with the therapist.
Literally his only purpose.

Matt (30:28):
Oh, yeah. In the plot here. Yeah.

Rachel (30:30):
Yeah. Yeah. Yep. And Tracy's like, as they walk away.
And Nick's like, wow.
You know, what was that? Andshe's like, well, I dated him
once. He goes, oh, what was thatlike? She goes, no. Like, I
dated him once.

Matt (30:42):
Went on a date.

Rachel (30:43):
I went on a single date. And let me come back to the
therapist because she's gotFrank, hypnotized again, and
he's remembering some stuff. Andhe's like, it's quiet. I can
hear every heartbeat, and shegoes, what year is it? You know?
Are you Francesca? What year isit? And he's like, oh, it's
1755. And he remembers walkingin and seeing the man asleep in

(31:05):
her bed

Matt (31:06):
The man.

Rachel (31:07):
In Franchesca's bed.

Matt (31:08):
We can all see the man.

Rachel (31:09):
Yeah. And he, like, leans to the side, and the cam
like, in the chair, Frank leansto the side. And the camera is,
like, out, and he starts going,I know who he is. And then the
camera zooms in, and he goes, Iknow who he is. And then it
zooms in again, and he's like, Iknow who he is.
And you're like, dude, we allknow who he is. That's fine. And
he goes, he's my lover and mykiller, Nicholas Chevalier. Do

(31:34):
you think that just means night,doesn't it? Night.
Yeah. It means night. So hisname is Nicholas, French version
of night. Shit. Let me comeback, and it's because Tracy is
having this weird dream aboutFranchesca, and she sees herself
dead like the murder victims.
I don't care. So then Frankbreaks into the therapists.

Matt (31:54):
None of us do.

Rachel (31:54):
None of us do. Even Tracy's like, oh, shit. And so
Frank breaks into histherapist's office and steals
his own tapes, which istheoretically his property
anyway. Maybe that's only how itworks in the US. Like, if it has
his voice on it or your voice onit, you can request it.

Matt (32:13):
Yeah. This was way before GDPR.

Rachel (32:16):
Yeah. It's fine. Okay. So then Frank breaks in,
obviously. He steals his owntapes except for 1, and then he
comes back.
We come back to see him, andhe's, like, laying at his house
listening to the tapes andremembering as he's listening to
himself talk about beingFranchesca.

Matt (32:33):
He's having a waking dream.

Rachel (32:35):
Yeah. Yeah. And then we actually cut into a flashback
because he hears the line, evenin the shadow of our master,
he's the one I see. And whoeverdid the camerawork on this was,
like, really enamored with thescene where Nick stands up and,
like, shakes Francesca's handbecause we see it in, like, 5,
6, maybe 7 times, like, a lot.And then we come back.

(32:57):
Oh, I just had, like, a this wasreally cool. I'm gonna, like,
whoop. We're gonna have a palatecleanser for a minute. Okay. I
was watching a cool thing aboutone of the episodes of Star Trek
where, which one is it?
Where they keep reliving thesame timeline over and over
again. And I think it's JonathanFrakes. So it's number 1. What's

(33:20):
his name?

Matt (33:21):
I guess Riker.

Rachel (33:22):
Riker. Thank you. Just left me. Riker is and then every
time when somebody realizesthey're reliving the timeline,
like, weirder and weirder thingskeep happening. And there were
certain scenes that were thesame every time they relived
them.
So what they did was actuallyset up, like, 5 cameras and
record it all at one time. Andthen each time when they came
back, they just used a differentcamera angle.

Matt (33:43):
Oh, so it was actually the same recording

Rachel (33:46):
Yeah. So they could get from a different perspective.
Recording every single time.

Matt (33:50):
Clever.

Rachel (33:50):
That was pretty cool. Anyway, that's what they did
here. Let's go with that. Sothen then they go then we go to
the flashback. Like, we go toFrank's flashback about
Franchesca, and it's Franchescaarriving her room and waking
Nick up.
And this is another one that Idon't suggest you listen to with
really good Yeah. It's reallyuncomfortable. It's a lot better

(34:16):
if you just think he's being,like, sultry and seductive
instead of, like, locker roomdude being like, hey. Yeah. I'm
a hit that again.
It's like, mhmm. Mhmm. Alright.Yeah. It's so weird.
Don't just don't do it. And shegives him this cup, and that's
kinda weird.

Matt (34:31):
It's kinda like a cat when they go, like, when they're
eating. That's that's how Nickis being.

Rachel (34:39):
Yeah. They're like, those. Yeah. She gives him his
cup, and he sips it, and he'slike, shit. It's forebear.
And I love it when he drinks it.He actually gets this thoughtful
look, and then we hear violinmusic playing.

Matt (34:55):
I'm allergic to violinists.

Rachel (35:00):
She told me it was a musician. That fuck. The last
time I was remember the rememberthe episode that was basically a
music video where he, like Yeah.Tripped out. That's what
happens.
See, he can't get too close tomusicians.

Matt (35:13):
He had a relapse.

Rachel (35:17):
But he gets pissed. He's like, you killed for bear.

Matt (35:21):
I really liked that one.

Rachel (35:23):
Anyway oh, in my notes, I put in parentheses, don't
listen to this part onheadphones. And then we come
back from the flashback, and weactually don't come back to the
flashback from the flashback toFrancesca slash Frank. We come
back to Nick and Nat, andthey're in the morgue. And
Natalie goes, hold up. You couldtell who it was from just one

(35:45):
sip.
And Nick goes, who it was, whathe thought, who he loved, how he
died. And then we get myfavorite, like, quotation in
probably the entire series. AndI know I've said that, like, 6
times, but I mean it every time.I feel like everyone should know
that now, but it's his, you haveto understand that every drop of

(36:07):
blood has your whole life in it.So you could tell who it was
from just one sip?

Nick (36:14):
Who it was, what he thought, who he loved, how he
died. You have to understandthat every drop of blood has
your whole life in it. It's notjust our food. It's the way we
feel life. Imagine if you couldknow someone's soul just by

(36:40):
sharing their blood.
Everything you know, everythingyou are transformed into touch
and taste. Imagine thetemptation to take just one sip.
One sip and then another andanother. To take them inside you

(37:05):
and know every secret. To letthem know yours.
To be them. That's why it's sucha tough habit to break.

Matt (37:22):
I think this was vampire mythology that really could have
been established a lot earlierin the series.

Rachel (37:32):
Yeah.

Matt (37:33):
And it would have added a lot of more depth to the whole
blood drinking thing.

Rachel (37:38):
Say. We talk about it in last act, which is season 1
episode 4, because she remembersthings that she saw in his blood
when they were making love

Matt (37:49):
Right.

Rachel (37:49):
Slash vampire banging. And that is it. And then we go
radio silence until the 3rdepisode from the very last
episode. And all of a sudden,we're getting the depth of
vampire mythology that we wantedthis entire fucking time. But
congratulations, y'all.
It's now and then it's gonebecause this is the 3rd to last

(38:10):
episode of the entire series.And this is such a good moment
because he's finally explainingto Natalie why every time she
nags him to give up blood, hecan't do it. And how the fact
that he's already stoppeddrinking human blood is a big
enough sacrifice because he hasgiven up feeling alive.

Matt (38:32):
Now Nick only has memories of fields and grain. He has
replaced

Rachel (38:41):
The sun on his back.

Matt (38:42):
He's replaced the deepest sense of human connection that
any humanoid can experience forchewing. Memories of entire
lives of chewing and then andchewing again. And he's trying

(39:04):
to convey how much of a lossthis is.

Rachel (39:07):
I feel like we're both trying to make the same point
right now, but we're just comingat it from different angles.

Matt (39:12):
I'm I'm trying to highlight the preposterousness
of Nick's actual situation.

Rachel (39:18):
Okay. So maybe

Matt (39:20):
At this point, he's gone back to human blood.

Rachel (39:22):
Okay. So all vampires were originally human. Right?

Matt (39:25):
Yeah.

Rachel (39:26):
So maybe there's no clean transaction between humans
and vampires. So every time youdrink a human's blood, part of
their life leaks into you. But avampire was never a cow, and so
maybe when you drink cow blood,it's just nothing.

Matt (39:44):
It's like boiling water.

Rachel (39:45):
It's like static. You get nothing. You get, I don't
feel hungry anymore, but youdon't get any sense of life. You
don't get any sense of anotherperson which must feel intensely
lonely. You have the ability tocompletely understand another
person.
It is always just the thicknessof their skin away, and you have

(40:09):
completely restricted yourselffrom being able to do that. That
has to be really fucking hard.And the fact that we didn't use
that throughout the rest of theseries, listen, when we do the
reboot y'all, I promise, we'regonna keep it because I

Matt (40:25):
love that. Day 1.

Rachel (40:27):
That's not an original thing. That pops up every once
in a while, the whole, like, Ican see your memories in your
blood thing. And I'm alwayslike,

Matt (40:34):
Warm bodies, for instance.

Rachel (40:37):
Well, he eats the brain. That's a little bit different.
But this is like, you know,you're like, but how though?
Because it's just plasma and redblood cells. But you know what?
It's cool. I don't care. Ifbeing a vampire is a little bit
mystical, then maybe the blooddrinking thing is a little bit
mystical too. So we'll just

Matt (40:54):
Everybody gets to be a little bit magical.

Rachel (40:57):
And I think

Matt (40:58):
that's the thing. Exist.

Rachel (40:59):
Yeah. Yes. This is a world where vampires exist. If
you tell me blood carriesmemories, fucking fine. I have
no notes.
I don't care. And, actually,this is an important note.
Kristen has a video that usesthis dialogue, and she did,
like, a voice over with Nick andNatalie scenes, and she plays,
like, snippets of this over itwith this really sultry music.

(41:21):
By the way, go check it outbecause it's really good. So
then, my favorite part aboutthis is Nick is telling Natalie
this, and she's just, like,turned on.
Like, she's watching him like,oh, yeah. That sounds amazing.
You can just know a personcompletely. That's great. Oh my
god.
And then he drops the line, andnow you understand why it's such

(41:45):
a difficult habit to break. Andshe's like, oh, wow. I don't
know. Maybe she actuallyrealizes, like, it's kinda
strange. Right?
Because if a vampire feels lifeby drinking human blood, then
when Nick stops drinking humanblood, he actually gives up his

(42:07):
own his only way of completelyinteracting with humanity in
order to become closer tohumanity?

Matt (42:15):
Oh, I don't know that it's as much of a, like, complete
loss or what what would be anequivalent? Like, getting magic
and then spending a 100 yearslearning to perfect using that
magic to interact with the worldand building it up as an

(42:36):
instinct and then losing all ofyour magic.

Rachel (42:39):
Yeah.

Matt (42:40):
And then you have to go back to being a regular person.

Rachel (42:42):
He had to figure out how to do it all again.

Matt (42:43):
And You have to lost something, but you're it's
because you had something extrathat other people don't don't
have. And and now you have toyou know the loss of it. Yeah.
You know the difference. But foreverybody else, it's like, we'll
just

Rachel (43:03):
Just do it. What's wrong

Matt (43:04):
with you? Get along Yeah. With what you need to do.

Rachel (43:08):
Now, on that note, 7 episodes after we last saw him,
guess what y'all? Vashon is

Matt (43:14):
back. Oh, finally.

Rachel (43:15):
Look at Vashon. There he is. He's talking to Tracy, and I
spent the whole time. I had torewind it and watch it again
when I was taking notes becauseI was like, did he cut his hair
while he was gone? Is itactually a little bit now?

Nick (43:25):
It looks

Matt (43:26):
extra fluffy.

Rachel (43:27):
It looks a little bit more clean.

Matt (43:34):
If you say so.

Rachel (43:35):
And I just and there was no bangs. The bangs are, like,
swept to the side. Maybe that'swhat it was. I don't know. But
he's talking to Tracy, andTracy's like, okay.
So here's the sitch, describesthe murder, and Vashon's like,
well, you could have aconnoisseur on your hands
because there are vampires whoget off on the death rush. I
mean, I'm not one of them oranything, but, like, there are

(43:56):
vampires that do that. And, youknow, like, these days, it's an
expensive taste, but you canalways find people who will
cater to any taste for a price.And then he explains the idea
of, quote, special vintages,which is like a poet, a
musician. He goes, even an actorwould bring a premium if you

(44:16):
have the right customer.
I mean, they taste likecigarettes, cocaine, and shit,
but, you know, they're availableif you want them. And then they
kinda brainstorm about the typeof person who might do this. And
in the end, what they kindadecide is, is it really a
vampire? Because this person isleaving these bodies out in a

(44:37):
very public place. They kindawanna get caught.
And if you were a realconnoisseur, you were somebody
who was procuring blood, you'dbe profesh. You would never find
the body. And Vashon's like,well, I mean, if you do find out
it's a vampire and then you findher, what are you gonna do? And
Tracy's like, oh my god. I don'tknow.

(44:58):
I mean, like, I can't call you.You're not gonna come.

Matt (45:02):
You're you're unreliable.

Rachel (45:04):
I know. I love how he's not like, I'll follow you around
and help you. Like, he wouldhave, I don't know, 13 episodes
ago. Instead, he's like, oh,wow. Best of luck.
That sounds like you got there'ssome shit going on. That's

Matt (45:17):
Yeah. Yeah. In in a week, I'm still gonna be tuning my
guitar.

Rachel (45:21):
That's later. He's not tuning yet. And then we get
Frank again, and Frank is stilllistening to these tapes. He
talked a lot, apparently, and hehad a lot to listen to. And this
is the moment where he I thinkwe're supposed to see that Frank
and Francesca, the line isblurring significantly because
we realized that he set his roomup to look exactly like

(45:42):
Francesca's room.
And he ends up walking over tothe window, and we get this,
like, Frank slash Francescalooking out the window scene
where he's looking out thewindow, and then in the past,
she's looking out the window.And they remember

Matt (45:54):
He's already been living a life that's in line with the day
to day kind of habits andpreferences Yeah. I think she's

Rachel (46:04):
slowly been nibbling away at Frank. Like, she's
slowly been taking pieces ofFrank so that he's becoming more
Francesca than Frank. And thenhe remembers meeting Nick again.
And this is when we cut to theto the precinct and the
therapist actually comes intothe police because she has
realized, thanks to the reporterwriting an article about these

(46:27):
murders and describing the waythat the murder was done, which
is kind of trash because usuallythey don't do that because then
you can have copycats come inand say, oh, yeah. I did it.
Let me give you the details, butyou don't know if they learned
those details from the newspaperor if they actually did it. So
but whatever. In this case, ithelps because the therapist read

(46:48):
the description and was like,oh, shit. That sounds like
Frank. And she's like, I guessit's technically patient like,
doctor patient confidentiality,but not if people are getting
hurt.
And then so she tells them aboutFrank slash Francesca and that
they were describing fantasiesthat sound a lot like what the

(47:09):
murders are described of as inthe press and then tells them
that Frank stole all but onetape. And Tracy goes, wait a
minute, he?

Matt (47:21):
What?

Rachel (47:22):
And this is when that this is probably the most dated
interaction, if there's a datedinteraction in this episode,
because then the therapist tellsthem that he's been undergoing
past life regression, and thatyes, the dominant personality
that has been appearing in theirsessions is female. And Reese,

(47:44):
very derogatorily, one mightsay, it's definitely not like a.

Matt (47:50):
It's a boomer vibe.

Rachel (47:51):
Bit of a boomer vibe says, apparently, he thinks he's
the reincarnation of some 18thcentury countess, a vampire. And
both Tracy and Nick are, like,oh my god. Vampires. So what?
What?
You guys are crazy. What? That'scrazy.

Matt (48:15):
Excuse me for a minute while I go Is it

Rachel (48:21):
hot in here? It feels kinda hot in here. Is anybody
else hot? No. I don't sweat.
I don't have a body temperature.Oh, okay. And so they can listen
to the day. Nick sweats blood.Nick sweats.
Bruce is like, are you sweatingblood? He's like, what? Oh my
god. It's a prostate thing. I'msorry.

Matt (48:47):
I was thinking, is there any Canadian beverage that has a
lot of red dye in it?

Rachel (48:55):
Cheer wine.

Matt (48:56):
Is that Canadian?

Rachel (48:57):
No. It's only in the Southern United States. There's
so much red dye, your wholemouth turns red.

Matt (49:04):
I was just thinking if if they're oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, it's
the Ribena.

Rachel (49:14):
Sorry. I had a lot of ribena the last week. He's like,
listen. I read about thiscocktail online. This lady wait
made one up.
It's ribena, vodka, Red Bull,and seltzer.

Matt (49:25):
And I've just been mainlining the shit always.

Rachel (49:28):
That was me. Also, throw a twist of lime in there. It's
really good. So he was like,I've been using the Red Bull to
stay awake. I've been using theRibena to stay fine.
I've been using the vodka todeal with Natalie, and then the
seltzer just lowers thecalories.

Matt (49:45):
But that's how Nick explains blood sweat.

Rachel (49:47):
He's he's like, oh my god. I need to cut back on the
vodka. Not the ribena. Never theribena. And so, anyway, they
listen to the tape.
This is the final tape. Andluckily, this is the tape where
Frank is describing how he killspeople in the old knife through
the heart trick. He's like,first of all, this is not as
easy as it looks. You've gottakill them at just the right

(50:07):
moment because it pours theirfeelings into their blood, and
then you can taste the lust forme and the fear of me, and it's
like the best. You know what Imean?
And Nick is sitting there like,I am a little turned on right
now, and I just need to playthis off as discomfort. That's
what it looks like. Like, whoo.Yeah. No.

(50:29):
They because you have toimagine, there is a part of Nick
that is Nick, and he hasdescribed that he has a vampire.
So he has, like, a set ofinstincts that are purely
vampiric, which he thinks ofthis sort of separate from
himself. And when he hears thiskind of stuff, there has to be

(50:50):
an immediate reaction over whichhe has no control.

Matt (50:54):
Yeah.

Rachel (50:56):
And so this is hard to listen to because part of him is
uncomfortable and part of him iswildly turned on all at the same
time. And the therapist istalking, which is kind of
helpful because she's a bit of awet blanket. And she's like, he
came to me because he was havingdreams of himself as a woman
making love to a man, and he wasfeeling the urge to be this

(51:23):
woman. And this is the partwhere we are very much not going
to talk about the implicationsof that. And she says he was
heterosexual, and he wanted tohave control over this thing
that was happening to him.
And Reese says, continuing hisreal, real, judgy way of

(51:47):
interacting with like, hold ittogether, Reese. You just went
on a, like, rage fueled campaignagainst this guy. Can you give
someone else the benefit of thedoubt that there might be
something happening in theirlives that you have not you have
no conception of exactly whatthat is? Like, can you leave it?
Because he goes, which one ofyou decided he had been a woman

(52:10):
in a former life?

Matt (52:13):
I'm kind of waiting for him to walk through the
precinct, try to get a cup ofwater, and just say, I just
don't get these kinds of people.

Rachel (52:25):
We haven't

Matt (52:26):
done that well. Understand how a person would think that
way.

Rachel (52:30):
Well, that was kind of what that whole last episode was
was I don't get these people,which nobody does. It's cool.
Yeah. So but, like, come on,Reese. Which one of you decided
he'd been a woman in a formerlife?
And this is we are not going totalk about the implications of
the which one of you decided hewas a woman because that is not

(52:54):
what this episode is trying togo with.

Matt (52:57):
Right. This is

Rachel (52:57):
more of a criticism on the past life regression therapy
Right. Than it is on the Frankslash Francesca situation.
Right. This is Reese beingincredulous about the therapy he
was receiving, not necessarilyabout his gender identity. So
that's what we're gonna stickwith because they are not having

(53:19):
a discussion about genderidentity.
It was not in the zeitgeist likeit is now.

Matt (53:24):
Right. The this is forever night season 3 episode 20
through a 1995 lens, not a 20 24lens.

Rachel (53:33):
Right. 2024, you're like, hold up. What do you mean
decided he who decided he was awoman? But your knee jerk
reaction is to be immediatelyoffended by the implication that
his gender was something thatwas decided by the therapist or
whatever. But that's not whatthey're going with.

(53:54):
So we have to not go with it. Wehave to go with what Reese is
talking about, which is the thiswoman came in and said she'd
been hypnotizing this guy intoremembering his past life, and
he remembered being an 18thcentury vampire woman. And so
the outrage is, what do you meanin a past life? Past lives don't

(54:15):
exist. That's the outrage we'resupposed to be going with here,
so that's what we're gonna gowith.

Matt (54:21):
Okay.

Rachel (54:21):
So the therapist says because she immediately reacts
to Reese as if the criticism isabout her therapy because she
says traditional therapy hadfailed him. He went and saw
other traditional therapists,but they weren't helping him.
That's why he came

Matt (54:36):
to me. Came to me, the crackpot.

Rachel (54:39):
The the experimental therapist. I don't know.

Matt (54:42):
I was I was being hyperbolic.

Rachel (54:45):
Okay. Yeah. I mean, that's what the crackpot thing
is what Reese is thinking, thatthis lady is what part of her
therapy played into what Frankis doing right now, I think, is
the question. And she explainsthat it's not about whether the
past life is a real life. Itjust helps them unlock their

(55:05):
fears and hopes and dreams andthat it just happened to be that
the past life that he describedin the therapy sessions was from
a female perspective and thatthat is immaterial to her
overall therapy approach.
And Nick is kind of listening,but, also, he goes into a
flashback where this is the partwhere he's pissed that she

(55:28):
killed the the violin, bro.

Matt (55:31):
Yeah.

Rachel (55:31):
And he's like, you fucking wasted him, and she's
like, wasted? What are youtalking about? Now we can savor
him, and he's immortal just likeus. I mean, you want me to get
you a violin right now, and thenyou can play the violin just
like he did? And he's like,yeah.
For, like, 2 fucking hours, andthen it's all gonna be gone. And
she's like, then I'll get youanother one. And Nick is a

(55:52):
little handsy. He does a lot ofgrabbing her and throwing her
around.

Matt (55:59):
Yeah. He gets a little rough, but he he's upset because
because he feels like she's donesomething reprehensible.

Rachel (56:07):
Is actively harming people. She's actively murdering
people. So that's I think it'smore of a well, first Nick Nick
actively murders people. I know.This is one of those ones where
you have to kinda squint alittle because

Matt (56:20):
Right. Where because Nick is so little. What Nick is
implying is, yes, there's thehumans that we, like, consume
their blood and toss them intothe middin heap and move on as
if they never existed. But thenthere are the humans that we
want to keep around Yeah.Because we they entertain us.

Rachel (56:45):
He was one of the interesting ones, and you wasted
it. He could have given 3, 4more concerts before we murdered
him. Jesus, Francesca. So Ithink what we're gonna do is
just squint a little at theviolence, because I think what
they're going with is she's notnecessarily a woman. She's more

(57:06):
of a vampire, so they are on parin terms of strength and
physical prowess.
So he is capable of throwing heraround. She's capable of
throwing him around, so it's notthe same, but it's also kinda
the same. And I don't know. Idon't know how I feel about this
because this is actually, like,the second time. The first time

(57:27):
he throws her, it's becausethey're getting ready to do the
vampire nasty, and he tosses heron the bed, like, we're about to
do it rough.

Matt (57:35):
Yeah.

Rachel (57:36):
And then this time is like, you bitch. You killed
forebear, and so he throwsaround the bed. And we're not
given enough context to real atto know what the what
constitutes acceptable betweenmale and female vampires? Were
they both human? He's absolutelyin the wrong here, just like she

(57:58):
would be in the wrong if she wastossing him around.
But I don't know. This isn't aproblem we solve, uncommon 81
kilo. Just know that I'mconflicted about the fact that
he tosses her around.

Matt (58:11):
Okay. So this, this reminds me of a discussion I saw
on the interwebs. There's this,manga slash anime called
Invincible.

Rachel (58:26):
Okay.

Matt (58:26):
And it's about this guy. It's kind of a a Superman story,
but a Superman was a fuckingasshole.

Rachel (58:34):
Okay.

Matt (58:36):
And so he comes, and he kinda keeps the world safe
because he falls in love withthis human woman. And, but he's,
like, really judgy of anybodythat's, like, less powerful than
him or or humans' attempts tokind of do anything Yeah. On par

(58:58):
with him. But one of his thingsis he goes straight for the head
Okay. Anytime he's fightingsomebody.
And it makes all of the fights,like, really graphic and brutal
because he he there are so manycrushed heads. Yeah. I have not

(59:19):
watched the series.

Rachel (59:21):
Okay.

Matt (59:21):
I have just read read about this example. And so it
comes up regularly. Why does healways go for the head? Why is
his default response for when hewants to, like, incapacitate
somebody is head crush mode. Andso somebody was explaining this.

(59:45):
On their home planet, they areall that powerful. Right? He is
just one of an entire race ofaliens that are all this
powerful. Their bodies arenearly indestructible. The only
way they can do any real harm toeach other is by hitting each

(01:00:07):
other on the head really hard.

Rachel (01:00:09):
Okay.

Matt (01:00:10):
And so his entire life, okay. If this is a serious
fight, if I actually wanna takeyou out, I gotta go for the
head. And if I hit you real,real hard, I might stun you for
a little bit. But then he comesto Earth, and he has this built
in reaction of this is a seriousfight. I need to incapacitate

(01:00:32):
you.
I need to go straight for thehead. That's his reflex. That's,
you know, built in defaultstrategy. Yeah. But then when
he's fighting these, Earthsuperheroes or supervillains,
whatever, if he punches them inthe head really hard, their head
explodes.
So for vampires who are reallystrong and durable, if Nick has

(01:00:56):
been around at this point for,what, 5, 6 100 years, if you're
in a fight with another vampire,oh, this is a serious fight. I
have to get really, reallyphysical, and that's the only
way I can do any kind of, like,have any real effect on you to
where you might, like, pause or,like, I might be able to stun

(01:01:19):
you a little bit if I throw youreally hard. So this might be
the equivalent of, like, tappingsomebody on the side of the head
to get their attention Andthey're they're chuck you across
the room.

Rachel (01:01:35):
That's what I mean. We don't know, like, how if you
have 2 vampires, whatconstitutes normal? Like, what
constitutes okay?

Matt (01:01:44):
Physical do you get?

Rachel (01:01:45):
Yeah. So we're just gonna leave it. We come back to
the therapist, and she's like,well, Frank sublimated his
hunger for sexual attractioninto this vampire fantasy
complete with this love, thedark and dangerous Nicholas

(01:02:08):
Chevalier. And she says thatFrancesca is just a
manifestation of his desire thathe could not separate that he
could separate from himself andtherefore control his own
impulses. And they're like,okay.
But why the vampire, though? Andshe's like, well, the vampire is
an archetype an archetype forlike, it's an archetype that's

(01:02:34):
buried deeply in our collectiveunconscious, and in creating
Francesca, he created a personathat had the sexual freedom that
he never had. And this wholedialogue gets a little bit like,
are we saying this guy iscreating this persona because he
can't reconcile mentally thefact that he's maybe not

(01:02:56):
straight and maybe not male? Idon't know where we're going
with this, except maybe he was Idon't know. And because the
nineties didn't have a way theydidn't have the language to tell
us what they're talking about,we can only extrapolate it, and
then we're only gonna be able tosee it from 20 24 perspective.

(01:03:18):
We can't rewind our brains 30years.

Matt (01:03:22):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:03:23):
They are just implying that this guy is sexually
repressed. And probably whatthey mean by sexually repressed
is he hasn't had a girlfriend ina while, or he has difficulty
finding women or performing withwomen.

Matt (01:03:34):
Right.

Rachel (01:03:35):
That's literally probably what they're talking
about. Though when we're hearingit, we're like, oh, so this guy
is gay, and he doesn't want toadmit he's gay. Is that what
we're talking about? Or he'she's actually a woman, but he
was assigned male at birth. Idon't know what no.
That's 2024. You have toremember what they're talking
about. This is the nineties. AndReese is like, okay. Thank you

(01:03:57):
for the therapy lesson, but alsowhat does this have to do with
killing?
And she says, you know, in thevampire myth, killing is sexual,
and sexual freedom becomes thefreedom to kill, which is what
Nick says. He goes, yeah. Sexualfreedom becomes the freedom to
kill. And you're like, oh god.We're going there.
Because then Tracy says

Matt (01:04:19):
all pitch in. Tracy says all kind of look around at each
other like, wait. We all havesome insightful comment about
this particular vampire topic.Yeah. That's really weird.

Rachel (01:04:32):
Because Tracy says if he were a vampire, he would believe
it gave him the permission tokill as part of his nature. And
Nick just gives her a look like,what? And she's like, I mean, at
least that's what they say inthe myth. And Nick goes, yeah.
Well, myths can be prettypowerful.
And you're like, oh my god. Wewent there. We went there. If

(01:04:52):
you go there, you have to youhave to have the is a vampire
killing somebody sexual assaultconversation. I don't wanna have
that conversation.
I just I feel like I've spent 70some episodes deliberately not
having that conversation, and Idon't wanna have it right now.
And why did they bring this up?And this is where the vampire

(01:05:15):
gets super murky, and this iswhy the vampire is super fun to
play with because they reallywalk a line. I mean, like, a
werewolf a werewolf might killyou and eat you, which obviously
you can't consent totheoretically.

Matt (01:05:30):
Right.

Rachel (01:05:30):
But also, they might turn you into a werewolf, which
is like, meh. I'm not happyabout that. And then, like,
swamp thing might drown you. Youknow, there's monsters and they
might overtly kill you, but onlythe vampire is viewed as, like,
an attractive monster. Like,there's this inherent, sexuality
to the vampire mythology unlessyou go full monster vampire,

(01:05:54):
which is why I think a lot ofpeople like to live in vampire
monster monster vampire 30 daysof night land.

Matt (01:06:00):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:06:01):
Because then it's very cut and dry. They are the bad
guy. They bite you. They drinkyour blood. You die.
Okay? Great. Done. But then youcome back over here into, like,
romance. Vampires are able tomask land, and this is when we
get real, real fun, but real,real complicated, which is why

(01:06:24):
they're hard to do right.
Right? And ironically, JossWhedon, when he did the vampires
and Buffy, the reason he givesthem the demon face was because
he wanted it to be very clearthat they were monsters, but
that they could also have ahuman face, which is really
ironic that Joss Whedon made amonster that could also have a

(01:06:44):
human face. Knowing what we nowknow about Joss Whedon, just
gonna leave that there. Soanyway, someday, I will have a
podcast about vampires, and wewill completely unpack why
vampires are the best trope for,like, dragging out human nature

(01:07:06):
and exploring the nature ofhumans and how they interact and
the implications of beingothered and whether you're
othered in your sexuality orothered in your, like, the way
your brain works or whatever.And all of that, you can play
with so beautifully with thevampire myth because it's so

(01:07:27):
nuanced and it gives you so manydifferent paintbrushes to paint
with.
But that is not today, so we arejust gonna keep on rolling.
Because after Nick makes the,yes, myth can be very powerful
statement, the therapist islike, well, yeah. Because she
doesn't notice that literallyeveryone is vibing right now,
and they're all looking at eachother like, are we all talking
about vampires? Because we knowwhat vampires are. That's

(01:07:49):
probably the best part about theTraci weird subplot side story
thing that's happening becausewe kind of Follow

Matt (01:08:03):
the clues.

Rachel (01:08:04):
The clues. We kind of forgot that Tracy knew about
vampires, but not about Nick,and we forgot to play with it.
And now they're like, whoop.Let's drag that out, shake the
dust off, throw it back at us.And the therapist says, you know
what?
Actually, I think I'm kind ofway in over my head here. I was
literally only treating this guyfor, and she uses the term

(01:08:24):
gender confusion. We might nowsay gender confirmation, but she
says gender confusion and issuesof sexuality and identity, not
for this. And Nick is like,okay. Well, can you go make a
sketch of Frank and, captain?
I think we should probably go tohis place and take a look
around. And Reese is like, oh,yeah. Totes. You go do that.

(01:08:48):
That sounds like a great idea.

Matt (01:08:49):
I'll scrape up a warrant.

Rachel (01:08:51):
I'll scrape up a warrant. And then he goes, Nick.
Nick. Because Tracy just walkedout with the therapist, and he's
like, I've been on the force along time. I've seen a lot of
shit.
I've seen a lot of peoplebelieve there are some really
weird stuff, but I need you totry to keep this in the real
world. Okay? And Nick goes, I'lldo my best.

Matt (01:09:13):
Aye aye, captain.

Rachel (01:09:14):
Do my best. Oh, yeah. I'll keep it rooted in a world
where vampires exist. That'swhat I'll do. And then they go
to Frank's

Matt (01:09:21):
house. Reality.

Rachel (01:09:22):
Yeah. And this is where Nick recognizes immediately that
this looks a lot likeFrancesca's bedroom, and he has
kind of a sexy flashback. Andthen he goes to talk to LaCroix
about it because he's, he's alittle unsettled. So he goes to
see LaCroix in his pod lab, andLaCroix is like, Franchesca is
dead. Remember how I took you toher house to meet her, and then
you immediately murdered her?

(01:09:43):
Remember that part? Yeah. Andthen we lived in her house for,
like, another 100 years becauseit was paid off. We didn't have
anywhere else to go. And theartist kept just showing up, and
I kept killing them, and you gotso mad at me.
Remember that? And Nick is like,yeah. Yeah. But I think she's
back. And this is when the clawis like, reincarnation?

(01:10:04):
Are you serious? He's like, I'velived a long time. I've seen a
lot of weird shit. I've seenkids come back being able to
speak ancient languages. I sawwho like, I saw Houdini do a
neat trick with some handcuffsand a tank full of water, and
Nick is like, you're making funof me.
And I know you're making fun ofme, but this isn't a trick,
LaCroix. I think this dude hasher soul, and LaCroix is, like,

(01:10:28):
oh my god. Maybe her soul hashim, which means she is truly
immortal. So whose law will youuse against this killer? If it's
a vampire in a human body, whoselaw is she subject to, and who
will you arrest?

(01:10:49):
Will you arrest him, or will youarrest her soul? And if this is
Franchesca, I doubt sheremembers you fondly. And
there's like the low keyimplication that she came back
to exact her revenge on Nick.And then at the end when he

(01:11:10):
kills her, Francesca is like,I'll be back. I'm gonna get you
and your little fucking dog too.
And it implies that that dickwas so so much that this woman
came back from the motherfuckingdead and possessed a dude just

(01:11:37):
for the chance to get back athim. And this isn't even the
first woman that has pursued himover 100 of years to get back at
him. And this is why you shouldallow women to look at your
scripts when it has any kind ofromantic something in it because
they'll immediately tell youthere's no way this woman who
lived 100 of years on her own isso upset about the one dude she

(01:12:00):
fucked one time that she's goingto come back, from the dead for
the opportunity to stick it tothe man, one man.

Matt (01:12:09):
Right.

Rachel (01:12:09):
The Nick man. But we leave it at that, and Lacroix
ends up, leaning over to startpodcasting right after Nick
leaves because he's so inspired.And he's, like, where does
responsibility lie in our lives?Do we render payment in full
when we die? If we do come back,why?
What does it mean? Do we returnfree of our sins or burdened by

(01:12:32):
them? Is life a prison? Is thisa life sentence, so to speak?
And the only important part ofit about this really is that
Francesca is listening toLaCroix and remembering that
voice.
Because at this point, Frank hasfully been possessed by
Franchesca and is wearing a fullFrancesca costume. Outfit,

(01:12:54):
however you wanna describe this.

Matt (01:12:56):
Vibe. Vibe. Frank is wearing a Francesca vibe.

Rachel (01:13:01):
Yeah. And we get a moment where Tracy's talking to
the therapist, and she's like,what about and the therapist is
like, and that's the end of thatdiscussion, and we're not gonna
talk about it. So then we goback, and Nat and Nick are I
fast forwarded through myself.Thank you. And And I go back to
Nat and Nick at the morgue, andNatalie's like, reincarnation.
I love her, but he's like, Nick,you're full of shit. And he's

(01:13:22):
like, I got possessed by ademon. I met a woman who didn't
believe she was a vampire sofucking hard that she wasn't a
vampire sometimes. I met aghost, like, 4 episodes ago that
came back as my ex wife.

Matt (01:13:40):
And now, this guy has the memories of a lady I killed 100
of years ago.

Rachel (01:13:48):
You guys, this isn't that crazy. And Natalie's like,
I'm in the habit of believing 10unbelievable things every day
starting with you.

Matt (01:13:56):
I think that contradicts, like, a literal line she's said
before.

Rachel (01:14:03):
What? This show is contradictory? I can't I'm not
receiving that right now. Shegoes, starting with you, you are
one of the unbelievable things,Nick, but this is a stretch. And
that's Nick says, Natalie, youdidn't hear the tape.
You didn't you weren't there.This is true, And Natalie goes,

(01:14:24):
is someone messing with you? AndNick goes, who? And she goes,
Lacroix. And Nick says, whywould he do that?
I don't know. Maybe someone'smessing with your head. LaCroix?

Nick (01:14:39):
Why would he do that?

Rachel (01:14:41):
Because he's evil? Sorry.

Matt (01:14:44):
Why would he do that? Why do you have to ask?

Rachel (01:14:47):
As if Nick's entire life, Lacroix has not devoted
every single moment of hisfucking attention to fucking
with Nicholas.

Matt (01:14:57):
If you mentioned this in Lacroix's hearing range, he'd be
like, that is an amazing idea.

Rachel (01:15:05):
Damn. Why didn't I do that? I'm getting

Matt (01:15:07):
started on this immediately.

Rachel (01:15:09):
Do you remember the time he faked having Egyptian
artifacts to get you to lureyour foot on a bet to get you to
lure your archaeologist friendso that he could murder her?
Remember that one? Remember thattime he pretended that the woman
you loved was not Colt pure soyou murdered her? I could go on.

(01:15:32):
I could go on.
He's been fucking with him foryears. What do you mean why
would he do that? He would dothat because it's, oh, Chex
watch. Fucking Wednesday. That'swhy he would do it.
Natalie actually goes, becausehe's for

Matt (01:15:43):
another one.

Rachel (01:15:44):
She goes, because he's evil? I don't know. Like, why
not? And Nick is like, he getsto the heart of the matter which
is, if this is real, then itmeans that when I die, I'm not
actually gonna die. I'm gonnacome back and infect someone
else like an evil like sons ofBillia.

(01:16:05):
Like, I'm gonna come back as a athing that takes over somebody's
life. And it means that evilcan't be destroyed. And then
Natalie really feeling helpfuland optimistic and useful in
this moment is, like, Nick, ofcourse, evil can't be destroyed.
It can only be controlled.

Matt (01:16:28):
Guided, shaped.

Rachel (01:16:29):
Natalie, what are you trying to say? This man is like
he's looking to you forreassurance right now, and
you're like, yeah. Obviously,you're gonna be as evil now as
you are. Like, you're alwaysgonna be this evil. And he's
like, why am I trying to becomehuman then?
And she's like, well, it'll makeyou better at controlling your
evil.

Matt (01:16:48):
The mortal condition gives you a deadline. And and like
some people I know, if someone'shaving trouble completing a
task, you say, I put a 5 15minute timer on and boom. Yeah.
They do it.

Rachel (01:17:02):
I really wanna kill somebody. Okay. Well, I have to
wait 15 minutes. And now thatI'm mortal, I can. Natalie, this
was your moment to be like, no,Nick.
I don't think the evil lives onafter you. Maybe just pick some
shit up. I don't know. Take aminute. Offer some comfort.

Matt (01:17:21):
She's like the path to true immortality? I don't mhmm.
See? Aggressive reincarnation?

Rachel (01:17:28):
Natalie could have been like she could have put a pin in
it right there and been like,nope. Sorry, Nick. I don't think
that's what's happening rightnow. I think maybe Franchesca
came back, but maybe she'sactually using the evil inside
of Frank or I mean, there's alot that could be going on here.
We don't know what who what orwho Frank was like before he
became Franchesca.

(01:17:49):
We don't know if something abouthim made him particularly
receptive to who she is. We knownothing about Frank exists as
Franchesca and not before. Andthe fact that Natalie is like,
well, no. You're always gonna belike that. You're just gonna be
human and like that.
So then when you die, your evilwill die with you because, you

(01:18:10):
know, the good that men do isoften turned with their bones
and the evil lives after them.You like Shakespeare. Right?
There you go. That's JuliusCaesar.
So instead of being comforting,she's like, oh, no. No. No.
You're just gonna be you, butyou mortal. And he's like, well,
fucking great.
Thanks. Thank you for that. Andthen we cut to Tracy is talking

(01:18:31):
to the therapist. Remember theearlier conversation that I fast
forwarded through? Well, thereporter actually overhears the
therapist and Tracy chattingabout, like, could this person
really be a vampire?
What's really happening here?And he is really not subtle
about it. He tries to follow thetherapist out, and Tracy calls
him back probably to give thetherapist a chance to get away.

Matt (01:18:51):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:18:52):
And then she gives the composite sketch to the guy to
put in the paper, and then heends up stealing the therapist
card from where Tracy has thrownit away.

Matt (01:19:02):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:19:02):
And she threw it away because she goes to see her real
therapist who is in fact Vashon.And Vashon is so into this
conversation, he's tuning hisguitar the whole time.

Matt (01:19:12):
Badly. But he probably had to do a bunch of takes, and he's
like, guys, we're on the 6thtake, and I've replaced the 6th
string.

Rachel (01:19:22):
Look. He's on hour 30 hour 1 hour 1 minute 30 of the 2
hours that he had from the timehe drank that guitar guy's blood
to be able to tune his guitar. Idon't know. And Tracy's like,
well, could this be real? Couldthis guy really be a
reincarnation of a vampire?

(01:19:42):
Does Nicholas Chevalier meananything to you? And that Sean's
like,

Matt (01:19:47):
what? Where'd you hear that name? Who? Nick? Not that
it's significant or anything.

Rachel (01:19:52):
Nick of Nicholas. No. No. It's not.

Matt (01:19:59):
I I only know a Nicholus.

Rachel (01:20:02):
I I've Nicholus Cavalier? Chevalier. Chevalier.
Chevalier. And Tracy totallyignores the fact that he's now
extremely uncomfortable.
She's like, maybe he's stillaround. Maybe he's the
connoisseur. And Vashawn's like,nope. Mm-mm. No.

(01:20:25):
I don't think that's your guy,and Tracy's like, oh, so he is
still around, and he's avampire. Okay. Do you know him?
But Sean does not answer.

Matt (01:20:36):
Really hard.

Rachel (01:20:36):
He doesn't say anything.

Matt (01:20:37):
Not give anything else away.

Rachel (01:20:39):
And Tracy sees right through him. She's like, oh, you
do know him. Oh my god. Becausehe's just like, tearing the
guitar. Just tearing the guitar.
Tuck it away. Nick will fuckingkill me. Do you know what
happened to me last time?

Matt (01:20:55):
When I was supposed threatened

Rachel (01:20:56):
to do to me? When I was supposed to be watching Tracy,
and then urged showed up, so Iwent out to talk to my friend,
and then Tracy got attacked whenI was not talking to my friend.
But Tracy, he gives it all awayby not saying anything at all,
and this is when she says,again, there's just something in
front of my face, and I'm justnot seeing it. And then we cut

(01:21:21):
back to the reporter, and he'sat the therapist office, and it
doesn't really matter becauseshe kicks him immediately the
fuck out. The only reason heshows up at all in his entire
purpose in this moment is so shewill start the tape.
Right. Because she starts thetape to tape their session and
then nothing. And what I reallylove is that he has a drawing of

(01:21:42):
the guy and, like, what happenedto that fancy software from
human factor where we made aface that looked just like
Jeanette, but not like Jeanetteat all, but it looked like a
real person face. Why did we doa paper sketch when we have the
boop, boop, boop, boop computerprogram from human factor. Yeah.
Yeah. Where did that go? Maybethey lost the budget for those

(01:22:05):
graphics. I don't know.

Matt (01:22:08):
There there was an operating system update, and it
broke the application. And theapplication developer didn't
hasn't produced an update that'scompatible with the new
operating system.

Rachel (01:22:17):
That's exactly what happened. And so then he she
kicks him out. She shuts thedoor and then immediately tap,
tap, tap, and she opens the doorthinking it's the reporter, and
it's actually Francesca, whichmeans that the reporter had to
have passed him because he'salready got the knife out. She,
I guess, Franchesca. Frank isshe, Franchesca at this point.
She already has the knife out,and she's standing there, like,

(01:22:37):
twirling the knife. So was sheholding

Matt (01:22:40):
the like a little pocket knife.

Rachel (01:22:42):
I don't know what's happening. And then, I don't
know. So then we cut theprecinct because they have the
tape, and they're playing thetape because it's the, like,
therapist going, oh my god, andthen nothing. And it's been
running for, like, 12 hours.It's a really long long fucking
tape.
Does it flip itself? I don'tknow. Because she had an a side
and a b side. Mhmm. I don'tknow.

(01:23:04):
And they're like, you know thegreat thing about this, mister
reporter man who's here in theroom with us? You're on this
tape, and he's like, what? I'mallowed to go ask questions. And
they're like, okay. But did yousee anybody else?
Like, you were there. What didyou witness? Because it happened
right after you left. And he'slike, the only other person
there was some woman. And Nickis like, oh, shit.

(01:23:26):
Frank is now fully Franchesca.And Reese is like, hang on. He's
a she? And Nick is like, I'llput it in terms you can
understand. I think he becomesFranchesca when he kills.
And Reese is like, oh, I getthat. And then we cut to the
cinder block thing. Like, thisis the cinder block thing that
we saw at the very beginning.And we find out that this is

(01:23:47):
actually in the room that heuses as his kill room. And he's
trying to get the therapist toeat, and the therapist is trying
to get him to understand thathe's Frank and not Franchesca.
And she says, I came to youbecause I was confused, doctor,
but now I know who I am and whatI am. And she's like, yeah.
You're Frank, and he's like, no.I'm all that's left of

(01:24:09):
Franchesca, and I still rememberher beauty and her passion and
her needs. And then we cut tothe flashback of Nick freeing
everybody from their cages, andthen we have our vampire battle
where they run around reallyfast, and then she falls down
and can't get up because she'shelpless, and her boobs get
stuck to the floor.
And then she gets stabbed with apork colice that's made of wood,

(01:24:31):
which is, like, the dumbestdecision for a vampire to ever
make.

Matt (01:24:34):
She gets double stabbed.

Rachel (01:24:36):
Double stabbed. And they're all vampire speedy
speeding around, and it doesn'treally matter. This was the
inevitable conclusion. We knewNick was gonna kill her this
entire time. We just didn't knowhow.
And then Natalie is at theprecinct because they're trying
to figure out what happened.They need to figure out where
Frank is taking these peoplewhen he kills them as
Franchesca. And Natalie veryhelpfully points out to Nick,

(01:24:59):
you know, if this is Franchesca,this all might be about you. And
he's, like, I mean, obviously,it's about me. I thought it was
It always is.
I thought it was about me fromthe very beginning. I'm pretty
sure it's always about me, soit's fine, because that's the
only reason any woman would comeback from the dead because have
you seen this dick? AndNatalie's like, actually

Matt (01:25:21):
last significant experience of her life.

Rachel (01:25:24):
Yeah. Significant. And Natalie's like, actually, I have
not seen that dick, not fromlack of trying. And then Nick
has a memory because heremembers when he's down with
the dudes and he's breaking themall out of their cages. She
goes, the chef should not seethe slaughterhouse.
And he's like, oh my god. Chefin the slaughterhouse. And then

(01:25:46):
he leaves.

Matt (01:25:48):
Great police work.

Rachel (01:25:49):
And he does his Mothman flight through the so

Matt (01:25:53):
Yeah. And we get a snippet of, like, over the road flight
that we haven't seen before.

Rachel (01:25:58):
Yeah. That's true. And so, canonically, this was
another moment where the mothman made his appearance. And
then we're getting our she isn'treal, she is real debate with
Franchesca and the therapist whohas a name, but I don't know her
name and I don't care. AndFranchesca is like, I'm pretty
sure I'm real.
I'm like, I'm sitting righthere, and the therapist is like,

(01:26:20):
no. You're the sublimation ofFrank's unconscious sexual
desires. And Franchesca's, like,okay. You're not getting this.
You're like, you don't appear tobe getting this.
And this is when Nick shows upat the slaughterhouse question
mark. I don't know. We don'tknow how he knows where this
building is, and it doesn'treally matter Because Franchesca
immediately recognizes Nicholas.Franchesca's like, you bitch.

(01:26:46):
You son of a bitch.
You killed me, and I know whatyou are, and I know how to kill
you. And so she runs over andgrabs an axe out of the chest
piece thing and throws the axe.

Matt (01:26:57):
The wall display.

Rachel (01:26:59):
I thought she was gonna try to stab him with the end of
the axe, but, no, she tries tokill him with the axe, which
spoiler alert, that's not howyou killed vampires.

Matt (01:27:07):
A metal blade will hurt them. Sure. But It's Unless you
chop

Rachel (01:27:12):
their head off. Nicks vamps out. He's like snarls at
Francesca, and she runs at himand stabs him and, like, runs at
him with this fire poker, andthey, like, spin around, and
then we just hear, and it'sbecause Francesca Nick, like,
dodged to the side, andFrancesca kept running and ran
directly into

Matt (01:27:31):
forgot that she wasn't in a real vampire body anymore.

Rachel (01:27:34):
I guess. Ended up running directly into the ax
that she just threw into thedoor and stabbing herself
through the chest. And then shefalls down and Nick is like, oh,
no. I did it again. Except thistime, poor Frank was just Frank.
And then all of a sudden,Francesca appeared in his
dreams, and then he's killingpeople. And now Nick has killed

(01:27:55):
him. And she says, this isn'tthe first time you've killed me,
Nick. I'll come back again. Itwon't be the last time you
meddling kids.
Like, I get you.

Matt (01:28:08):
The, the first time I saw this scene when I saw this scene
and Francesca fell on the floor,it's like,

Rachel (01:28:16):
I lay dead. I thought,

Matt (01:28:20):
2 deaths for the Atreides. The second retrospect Which

Rachel (01:28:27):
is a quote from Dune Messiah.

Matt (01:28:29):
Yeah. Yeah. In retrospect Children of Dune.

Rachel (01:28:34):
This Children of Dune.

Matt (01:28:36):
Yes. Children of Dune. In retrospect, this feels a lot
more like the the series ofinteractions between this entity
and Arthur Dent, where Arthur inHitchhiker's Guide to the
Galaxy, where every time this

Rachel (01:28:57):
Thing comes back.

Matt (01:28:58):
Soul reincarnates

Rachel (01:28:59):
Yeah. As a plant kills it.

Matt (01:29:01):
Whatever Yeah. Arthur ends up doing something that
inevitably leads to its death.And it has happened so many
times, it ends up reincarnatingas this, like, winged demon
creature who creates a shrinefor the sole purpose of killing
Arthur Dent.

Rachel (01:29:20):
Yeah. Before it can kill him again. Yeah. Yeah. No.
Yeah. Yeah.

Matt (01:29:24):
That's So this this feels like the start of that same
relationship Yeah. But withbetween Francesca and Nick.

Rachel (01:29:30):
Did we mention that's from Hitchhiker's Guide to the
Galaxy by Douglas Adams? Yeah.It's pretty deep in the books
too because he references, like,3 or 4 books because he's the
bowl of petunias at the verybeginning.

Matt (01:29:42):
That says, oh, no. Not again.

Rachel (01:29:43):
Oh, no. Not again. And they're like, well, if we knew
why it said, oh, not no. Notagain, we'd understand more
about the universe. Well, youfind out it's because, Arthur
Yet again.
Yet again Arthur has caused itsdemise. Yeah. And then we come
back to the precinct, and Nickis walking with Tracy, and he's
like, oh, so how's thattherapist doing? And she's like,
weirdest thing? She doesn'tremember anything from after

(01:30:03):
Frank broke into her place.

Matt (01:30:06):
Oh, yeah. Don't you know? She just forgot everything.

Rachel (01:30:08):
And Natalie goes, probably for the best. And then
Tracy walks off, and Nick justlooks at or sorry. Natalie just
looks at Nick like, and? And hegoes, it was Franchesca. I'm
sure of it, but now he's deadand she's gone, but her soul
will come back.
And then we have a thing at theend where Tracy goes to the

(01:30:30):
therapist, and she goes, andthen the therapist goes, and
that's the end of

Matt (01:30:34):
the episode. 8 7654321.

Rachel (01:30:36):
And that's the end of the episode. Done. Done. I mean,
we find out she's forbear.That's why no.
That's because we hear theviolin and yeah. That's why
she's been creeped out by thiswhole thing, and my friend
Jessica creeped her out and blahblah blah blah blah. But, I
mean, I don't I can't undersellhow how I mean, normally, I'm
like, Look at the cute subplot,but this time, you're just like,

(01:31:00):
I don't care. So I mean, we'redone. That's it.
That's Franchesca, and now wehave 2. Oh my god. 2 more. I
cannot believe I know we've saidthis for, like, the last 10
episodes because I've been,like, leading up to the fact
that we're almost done for,like, 10 episodes, but, also,
I'm so proud of us.

Matt (01:31:20):
I'm proud of myself.

Rachel (01:31:22):
Are you for making it through this whole thing?

Matt (01:31:24):
For enduring.

Rachel (01:31:25):
How do you feel about forever night right now? It's
good. It's good. It's good.Yeah.
Is it, is it good because

Matt (01:31:32):
It has provoked many conversations between us, which
is the main goal of thisproject.

Rachel (01:31:40):
Can you see why it's kind of a unique take on
vampires that

Matt (01:31:44):
Oh, yeah. Especially at the time.

Rachel (01:31:46):
Yeah. Yeah. I can see

Matt (01:31:47):
how it was very novel.

Rachel (01:31:50):
And even now, like, there's kind of moonlight, but
moonlight doesn't know what itis. Moonlight doesn't know
whether the guy is hasstandards, doesn't have
standards. Like, it just doesn'tknow. And then I feel like
forever night for all of itsinconsistency was fairly
consistent in the fact that Nickwanted to be human. And whether
or not he was actively workingtowards it at any given moment

(01:32:11):
is variable, but he had a veryclear goal in mind.

Matt (01:32:15):
Right.

Rachel (01:32:16):
And it ends up being a very clear motivation for him
for a long time. And Icompletely hijacked your
conversation, and I'm reallysorry because I asked you a
question Yes, honey. I wouldabsolutely

Matt (01:32:35):
recommend this to every person I meet in the world. No.
If if I was having aconversation with someone and
they were, like, they'dcommunicated that they were
interested in vampire stuff andand they were, like, my age

Rachel (01:32:52):
Yeah.

Matt (01:32:52):
I'd be like, woah. Have you seen this, you know

Rachel (01:32:55):
Forever night.

Matt (01:32:55):
Camp kinda campy nineties show about vampires? Who's the
yeah. It's the first vampire copshow.

Rachel (01:33:02):
Yeah. It feels important for what it is. Like, it's the
great granddaddy of vampire copprocedurals. And I think it's
important for that. It'simportant because this is the
only time anybody's tried totell this story.
And with as many recycled ideasas we get, the fact that we
haven't recycled this isabsolute bullshit. Like, I I
would watch 6 differentiterations of forever night. You

(01:33:24):
give I watched every episode ofmoonlight. Did I love moonlight?
I liked it just fine because Iwanted it to be more, and I was
waiting for it to get better,and then it got canceled.
So that is what it is. But,like, our friends from cinematic
anarchy, who we appear on theirpodcast, probably more regularly
now than we have in the past.And, he really loves, like,

(01:33:47):
nineties cheesy, eightiescheesy. Like, he's one of those
people that I think would reallyappreciate forever night. I know
he's tried to listen to thepodcast, but was like, wait.
I need to watch the show first.And I feel like that's exactly
the kind of person that I wouldbe like, you would love forever
night. You should check it out.Yeah. Because he's gonna get it.
I feel like you could like, ifwe recommend this to my niece,

(01:34:09):
it would be like watchingsomething in a foreign language
with no subtitles. She wouldn'tget it at all. Right.

Matt (01:34:16):
It it'd be like the, the German sex comedy that we watch.
Yeah. And we probably missed 2thirds of the, like, jokes and
cultural references

Rachel (01:34:25):
Yeah.

Matt (01:34:26):
And pop culture references.

Rachel (01:34:27):
Right.

Matt (01:34:29):
And it was still kind of entertaining, but, it's slightly
out of our sphere of zeitgeist.

Rachel (01:34:41):
Yeah. It's out of our sphere of, experience, our
context. It's out of ourcontext. Like, when my dad got
really sick, I always thoughtthis line was really funny. If
he got really confused, he'd go,I'm out of context.

Matt (01:34:54):
Yeah.

Rachel (01:34:55):
And I feel like that's one of those things where you're
like, oh, that's reallypoignant, actually. It's a
really poignant way ofdescribing that. I'm out of
context. So, anyway, I thinkforever night's out of context
for a lot of people, but I feellike it has a lot to say still.
Like, I I wish somebody wouldwatch it and go, oh my god.
I think we should give that ashot. Like, I think we could do

(01:35:15):
that, and I think we could makethat work. And I think that
could be awesome. And I think wecould just write down our mythos
and our our world building.

Matt (01:35:23):
Just it employs somebody and say, hey. Like, showrunner
or lead executive producer orwhatever. Okay. It is your job
to make sure that we remaincognizant of these ten rules,
these ten facts about the show.Yeah.
Make sure we don't forget aboutthese.

Rachel (01:35:43):
I kinda feel like being raised on nineties television as
a superpower because ourstandards are so fucking low.
Like, if you just remember whathappened in the last episode and
you keep it consistent, I'mlike, oh my god. Look at a good
job they're doing. Such a goodjob. Like, they're making the
murder bot television show,which I am somebody.

Matt (01:36:04):
Stoked. So stoked.

Rachel (01:36:05):
There's a an account I follow who does Murder about
Mondays every Monday, and she'sbeen posting all the casting.
And every time people are like,oh, I don't know. I don't know
if that's gonna be, like, great.I don't know if they look like
the type of birthday. That's nothow that person looked in my
mind.
And I literally commented, atthis point, they could make it
with puppets, and I wouldn'tfucking care. Like, just make
the show. And I know I'm goingto love it because, listen, my

(01:36:29):
standards are they're they'reabysmally low. I I I will take a
great idea executed mediocre anyday of the week rather

Matt (01:36:41):
than look at your choice in men.

Rachel (01:36:43):
That's true. But my standards for movies are
entirely different. It's reallyweird. You know? It's like my
standards for books are reallyhigh, like, almost unbeatable.
And then my standards for moviesare, like, a little better. And
then my standards for televisionare, like, you did a real good
job. I'm so glad you tried.Alright. I'm getting stressed

(01:37:05):
now.
Okay. Until next time, friends.Bye. Bye.

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Forever Knight (Season 3 Ep 20) - "Francesca"

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Forever Knight (Season 3 Ep 20) - "Francesca"